The Ringer NBA Show - The Warriors Show Their Championship Mettle, and the Knicks Stave Off Elimination | Group Chat

Episode Date: May 11, 2023

Justin, Rob, and Wos start by talking about the Warriors bouncing back at home and forcing a Game 6 against the Lakers. They discuss the Warriors' small-ball lineup, Lakers adjustments for Game 6, and more. Then, they move on to the Knicks also forcing a Game 6 in their series with the Heat. They discuss Jalen Brunson and Quentin Grimes going all 48 minutes of Game 5, the play of Julius Randle, and whether they have any hope of the Knicks coming back to win the series (28:16). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Ryan Rosillo. I'm the host of the Ryan Risslo podcast at The Ringer. We are a sports show, but we do it a little differently because we want to cut through all of the nonsense and try to figure out what's really happening and give you those bigger picture observations. Do a lot of NFL, a lot of NBA, and of course, college football. Also have a great guest lineup, a lot of athletes, front office guys. And even we do some actors and writers from famous TV shows and movies, plus our life advice segment at the end of every show. So make sure you follow the Ryan Rissillo show on Spotify. Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Barrier and joining me fresh off their first round interviews for the Toronto Raptors head coaching job. Rob Mahoney, Big Waz. What's up, fellas? Personally, I think I'm very qualified. I would like to show you guys my eight-point plan to save the Toronto Raptors. How many points do you want to get into today?

Will JJ Reddick be the first podcaster to head coached job in the history of the NBA? If so, I'm pretty excited for this. Well, not if we have anything to say about it. that it was. I think we can jump the line. Let's do it. If you guys do get hired, can I get a spot in the staff? Like, can I at least be the Raptor? Like, the plush one?

That's the job you want? I think it's the only job I'm qualified for is the problem. Okay. That's fair enough. Look, I just want to see you dress for the job you want. So you better show up to next group, chat, full inflatable raptor garb, or also I'm walking. These are my demands. I think I've worn the same sweatshirt to every podcast we've recorded for the past five months.

So I don't know what that says. I guess my role is to do this, to talk to you guys on the Zoom after a night of some riveting NBA basketball like we had tonight on Wednesday. We'll get into the heat and the next game five. But first, Warriors Lakers, we're going back to Los Angeles. I'm not going to sing this time, Rob, but my first question to you after this 121, 106, victory for the Warriors, as a corgi owner, do you now have faith in the magical corgi video star, viral video star, who has predicted, I believe, every game of this series. How have I missed this? Where is this happening? On various social media platforms.

This is our new bit. One of us is not familiar with the meme of the day. And then we have to get caught up on what it is before we continue our lovely basketball chat. I've seen this. I've only seen it because I did Light Years podcast with our guys, Samis Fendiari and Andy Liu. And so, of course, they queued it up. And literally the words out of Sam's mouth, because this is after 3-1, he said,

the corgi is our last hope. Well, I believe the corgi predicted that the warriors would come back from the 3-1. Yes, that they would win in 3-1. Yeah, 100%. Whoa. Well, Rob, we have one of those victories in hand here. So what do you want to start from this one?

We can get into the AD head injury as we're recording this. All we know right now is that he was wheelchered reportedly out of the arena. We don't actually know exactly what it is. I think it's being described as a head injury. So let's set that aside and maybe talk about it a little bit later. And the bigger picture for this one tonight, Rob. It was just classic Warriors championship medal showing up when they needed to. Yeah, a little bit.

And I think playing small in a way where they actually serve those strengths. I don't know. Sometimes Golden State like throws a small lineup out there and they give up all the size, but they don't really get any of the benefit of being small. And in this game we saw just revving up the pace, right, moving all around the floor, a lot of constant movement in ways that jumbled up the Lakers matchups that forced AD when he was out there into a lot of pick and roll, force him to defend a lot of action.

It felt a little bit more complicated on the Lakers side to navigate all that. And I think a lot of credit goes to Draymond, honestly, who came into this game, like he was shot out of a cannon. And in some ways, like, played with the precision of a player who was shot out of the cannon.

Like, he committed a lot of needless turnovers, but the energy and the scoring were so important. They outweighed any mistakes he could possibly make. Like, this is the kind of, like, this is the kind of zip they have to play with to win. And if they don't have this, then they lose all the edge. of throwing Gary Payton the second out there,

which, Justin, we have to give your salute. You called as a potential adjustment in this series, and it really has paid off for them. The Mitten, yet again, never doubt him. I believe I was pro Mitten in the finals as well. I actually don't remember how that one turned out, so I'll just assume it was a win because the Warriors won, but never doubt the Mitten, my friends.

Yeah, he was incredible as far as attacking the glass. You know, like you usually think of these small line is not being able to squeeze rebounds. But the way GP2 plays, like, he's a plus rebounder. He's a plus plus rebounder at his position. You mentioned the pace. I thought that was deeply important in the sense that if you're giving up sides to these guys, you have to use your speed advantage, right?

And it wasn't just, you know, off of misses. I thought the way Wiggins would catch after, you know, setting a screen for Steph, Like he was going rapid fire towards the basket. Same with Draymont. Like they did everything fast. They did everything with pace. They set screens with pace. They rolled hard with pace.

They, you know, attacked on misses with pace. Everything was done fast and with force. And yeah, I just think they came out like a team that season was on the line, right? That if they lost, they would be going home. I don't know that the Lakers necessarily played that way as well. especially when you considered some of the defense away from the main action, whenever, you know, staff or anybody broke the plane on the initial action, guys like LeBron James were in exactly, you know, stalwart on the help side.

But the Warriors played about as aggressively as everybody kind of thought they would down 3-1. I think, you know, if you read anything, you listen to anybody, talk about how they anticipated, game five going. It's like, no, they're going to play like a bat shot out of hell at home in front of that crowd with this level of championship pedigree and metal. So there's no surprises on the warrior's side today. Justin, can I ask you something though? Why didn't they play game four this way? The same blueprint was there. They threw the same starting line up out there. And obviously it's been a much discussed talking point that they just like stopped going at AD halfway through that game for really no reason.

Why wasn't this the Warriors team we've been seeing for games now? Well, did they play that much differently from the previous game? I would argue, and I said this to Michael Pino, because we did a podcast after that game four. And I was like, even in the loss, the Warriors felt like they had found something. To all your guys' point, it just felt like whatever is the Warriors' verve and like whatever they bring to the table. It all clicked in when Peyton got into that lineup. The ball was pinging.

was there. Steph looked indomitable as he typically does when he's playing in space, but it just they went away from it, one, and the Lakers also got just 15 points out of nowhere from Lonnie Walker. And it seemed like in this game, like for both sides, it got pretty muddled after half time. I also wonder if Anthony Davis being involved in pretty much every action defensively and also offensively for the Lakers for an entire half whenever he's on the floor, ultimately has diminishing effects there. There was a point in the first quarter where I was like, has AD been the primary defender on every single shot here?

Because they're just like, they're bringing them out high and they're forcing him to do everything. And as you guys are mentioning, like, what else is there to gum up the works behind him? And like, how much does that affect the one guy you're counting on for literally everything for the Lakers? Well, especially because the big adjustment midway through, what was that game four, they put AD on Wiggins and basically the

Warriors stopped pulling AD into those pick and rolls and part because like Wiggins just was not prepared for those moments. He was kind of a non-threat for a lot of the series coming into this game. He was the guy on Golden State who really had a lot to prove in this particular game and I thought he had his best game of the series

by far. When we're talking about the Warriors playing small and playing fast man, it sure is nice when the most athletic player in your lineup looks like the most athletic player in your lineup. Yeah, and part of it too, Justin, honestly, I think if the Lakers, look, they don't have a ton of three and D-sized guys, right? Theoretically, it's kind of LeBron and Ruehachamora are the theoretical, and you could say Vando as well, who just can't hit a freaking three to save his life at this point, right? And so if Vando's not out there, they are pretty thin back there if Golden State is able to give.

all the way to the cup, right? If AD isn't in hot pursuit, like he was, like, say, I don't know, game one, then, you know, it makes it a lot easier to do. I just think if they find a way to play better defense behind the play, behind this simple pick and roll action, Golden State will be less likely to go to it as an action, and therefore AD will have less work to do, right? his guys have to step up and help him in that way. You know, I know we're going to mention that Golden State couldn't hit a three,

but you know what's better than threes? Uncontested layups. This is just a better outcome for you, you know? And they got a lot of just easy-ass layups in the first and second half. I thought the second half, the Lakers finally like, all right, they found a little something, but the Warriors couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. But yeah, the defense is where this stuff has to be, has to happen for the Lakers. They're not the nuggets, right?

They can't count on scoring 130, 125 every single game damn near. They got to stop these dudes and they have to give it, you know, an actual concerted effort in doing so. That's where Vanderbilt not being able to hit a shot, as you said was, really kills you. Because that's where this is starting to look like a warrior series, right? If we think about Golden State historically, what happens over the length of the series? The big guys get played off the floor, the non-shooters get played off the floor. They stretch you so thin in your rotation, you have to rely on, whether it's defensive liabilities or guards you may not want to be playing.

Those are the positions they put you in. And we're seeing AD be pushed to the limit in some ways in some of these games. And we're seeing Vanderbilt's minutes just drop and drop and drop, 11 minutes only in these last two games, each of them. Like, they need him out there for defense. They need him out there not only for on ball, but for those rotations we're talking about. And the fact that you're replacing him with, I don't know, like a little bit of Lonnie Walker here, a little Rui Hachamara there, there's a clear defensive drop off to that. Yeah. And on the other side, Luni is getting to the point. I know he's like been battling an illness here, but he's getting to the point where he's on the floor and the Lakers are just looking their choms. You know what I mean?

So I think this is where we should probably pause for a moment and just praise what Jemann Green did tonight, 20 points, 10 rebounds, four assists to steals. He didn't score. 20 points the entire regular season. This is his second time he's done so in the playoffs the first time game five coming off the bench against Sacramento. Just like his ability, one, to do everything you need from a big at his size, doing it against probably the most dominant big still left in the playoffs here in Anthony Davis. And also to all of a sudden look free and like just romping through the defense and the previous game looked like Magic Johnson when he like went behind his back and had the scoop layup going. Like what an absolute terror he's Benoit and just like someone that like this is just found money from the Warriors. It just kind of reemphasizes this idea like when

there's space, when the ball is moving, these guys just come to life. Yeah. And we mentioned the sort of the force with which Golden State played. Like it's exemplified. Just watch Draymond. Just watch what he's doing. The aggression with which he's guarding AD, not scared of foul and a dude I mean, he's a really handsy defender. He's basically daring the refs. It's almost like the

Patriots of the early 2000s or Legion of Boom Seattle Seahawks where it's just like, you commit pass interference on every single play and dare the reps to call it. And Draymond is like, look, our season is on the line. I'm going to dare these guys to put me out of this

pivotal game with tickey tack or touch files. And he just did it, man. The fact that he made a couple of jump shots in this game, he made it early three. He made a backbreaking long two at the end of a possession in the second half. It's just Draymond. And last week I was on Bill's show and he's like, yo, like, can they just let Draymond Green go?

Or do they justify paying this guy $35 million something dollars a year when it's like he is clearly the second best guy on the team. The only reason they haven't been swept or completely crushed in this series is the work that he's doing on offense and defense.

Is number one on that list, Gary Payton, the second? I'm sure his dad thinks so. But yeah, no, like to watch Jemann do what he's doing and to think that there's, you know, this this concept that you would be cowtowing to the likes of Jordan Poole

and James Wiseman because you got some allegedly bright future and watch what this guy does against the best players in the NBA LeBron and AD guarding them interchangeably like it's nothing and being the emotional folk room like come on now. It's absurd.

It's almost to the point where you understand why he might want to punch a guy in the face. Well, those conversations have started up though with the Warriors, obviously on the brink of elimination. You know, they stave it off tonight. But if they do lose this series, there's going to be a lot of hard questions about the core of this team and how much it costs.

There's going to be a lot of hard looks at Draymond in particular and whether he's a part of the future of it. Not only, you know, to your point was, like what he's doing against LeBron and AD, what he's doing defensively. It's like, I don't know how you replace what he does on either side of the ball for them. He's so critical that whatever the future of the Warriors is beyond Dremon,

it will have to be a complete reimagining of the blueprint, even if, obviously, Steph, we're going to assume it's still there, whatever that looks like. But he's so critical to them. Like, he's so critical to the way they operate. And yes, not only is he the second best player on the team, but he's, you know, he's given a lot of cover to Clay Thompson right now, who is not playing particularly good basketball, not making a lot of shots, continues to get frustrated to all hell by Austin Reeves at every opportunity. He cannot guard Austin Reeves. It's absurd. I was telling these guys before we came on here that I know Clay likes to flash the four

to pretty much everyone who has anything to say about him. At this point, I think that means four field goals out of like 20 attempts. Yeah, it's to the point where whenever he puts the ball on the floor, you just know it's an automatic win for the defense on whatever he's trying to do. He had one nice drive where he drew an extra defender, dropped it off to Looney for a labor. I was like, oh, look at Clay, playmaking. But that is, you know, the exception

that sort of proves the norm. Anytime he puts the ball on the floor against anybody. There's no Laker defender that is like afraid to get in Clay Thompson's shirt when he's trying to put the ball on the floor. So, yeah, Clay, if he's not just already just perfectly squared to the basket

when he makes a catch, it's just not looking good for him this series. Yeah, I'm with you guys too on Dremont's important. Like, it feels like this entire playoffs has been framed with the Warriors as a referendum on on Dremont and like where he fits in the dynasty and will they get rid of him and will that trigger like the end of the dynasty. I've been watching these games. I'm like, if they don't have Dremon, they are in most of these games.

No. It's like as good as is as Luni is, as much as he looks like, Walt Chamberlain with the rebounding stats, like Dremont keys virtually everything they're doing out there, man. So I would, he's the last of some of these guys that I would want to get rid of in order to clean things up. I will say in the Draymond v. Pool Square off, we almost got a good pool game. You know, he had some credible minutes where he at least made some shots, but five or 14, one from six. Guys, the shots that he made was spot up wide open shots and good. A guy making $30 million a year who does absolutely nothing, who does absolutely nothing else for your team should be able to

make wide open shots created by your Lord and Savior, Steph Curry. Okay. This is not almost a good pool game. It was as close as we've gotten in a very long time. Fair. Unfortunately true. I mean, he came out shooting not only like wide open shots, but they were very like perfect form,

good student shots. I kind of thought he was like trying to make a point at a certain level. Like I'm, look, I'm going to, I'm going to be the good soldier for five minutes, but soon enough. Yes. Yeah, it didn't last long enough, unfortunately. Yeah, I mean, it's tough because Steph is just driving so much of the action. You could tell, like, it's going to wear on him at some point.

It hasn't to the point where it's derailed him, but his shot hasn't looked good for two games. Now you wonder maybe if there's a trickle down effect there, but if Poole was able to just take some of these possessions off of his back, man, like the warriors could have been up in this series, not trying to climb back in. But we should talk about the Lakers here and maybe they're responsible. We mentioned AD. I still haven't seen anything as a recording that gives us any clarity on that. Well, if anything comes through while we're recording this, we'll update.

But I think I give him credit because he tried to go micro ball at the end there, at least to try something different with LeBron at the five surrounded by like four of the smaller, quicker guards that they have. It didn't go well. In fact, as soon as Looney got checked out of the game, Steph hit. like a fall away three from the corner where he basically fell into the crowd there.

So it was a good idea, but I don't think that's the answer of ADD can go, Rob. So like, what are we looking for here? Are there any obvious like pivots the Lakers still have left here? Yeah, I mean, the AD thing is such a question mark in this. Because when he's out there,

he's going to be central to the action for all the reasons we've described. If he does have some kind of concussion, even if he is able to play, That's something where like high intensity, high reps, you know, you can start to lose focus. You can start to lose your vision. You might have to sit out part of the game. We'll just have to see like what he's even up for.

But if he's not playing, I mean, their big rotation is just not built for this, right? Like this is not, you know, a throw. You don't think Winnie Gabriel is going to have a big moment in game six to close out the chance? I do not. Wow. The lack of faith is stunning. I do not. I do not think Mo Bamba is ready to roll out there at this particular juncture. Tristan? Yeah, Tristan is getting the active spot there.

In 2016, Tristan, what he did on the offensive boards was crazy, but he is not that type of dude anymore at all. He's not that type of dude anymore. I think fundamentally the important thing is the Warriors were good enough offensively that the Lakers had to start switching, right? Like, they were just, we're just going to throw out a different scheme to try to make, to try to contain this. And if Golden State is clicking at that level, AD or not,

that's going to be tough for the Lakers to match. They're going to need some Lonnie Walker level heroics in some of these games. Yeah, I think when you got guys like Dremont in the game at the same time as Gary Payton, they might want to look into doing some of the pre-switch stuff that you would see. The Warriors do, quite frankly, for Steph back when Andre was out there, where, oh, they're calling Steph up. Steph's guy to come up and set the screen. We're going to pre-switch that.

They can do some of that for AD, you know, And just straight up switch with the little guy on Stephs, just so you can keep AD closer to the basket and have your point of attack defenders, force him to the paint, force him to the middle, and be like, look, man, if GP2 is going to smash me from outside, then go ahead. But, like, they got to be smarter about varying the coverages

and just giving them something different to look at. I think the switching, I think, is a good thing to go to. I just don't think they should be doing it all game long, right? I think if the nature of their personnel was a little different, I'd be all for it. But with the guys that they have, I think they should be trying to get a little bit more creative

about keeping AD out of that action. Yeah. And a lot of that is going, that sort of choreography is going to take time with a lot of the players. And as we know, this team shuffled up the deck pretty significantly at the trade deadline. And they're moving guys in and out of the roster, or in and out of the lineup during these playoffs.

We should mention Chris Haynes reported as we're doing this, that the early diagnosis indicates that Davis didn't suffer a concussion. I will say, like, as soon as you admit he had a concussion, you have to put him into concussion protocols. So this is where things get incredibly dicey. Can't do it. Yeah. So it seems like 80 could be back.

Let's assume, Rob, that 80 is back. Would you do anything to the starting lineup based on what we're saying? Like, do you pull Vando because he seems to be such a non-factor against the warrior small ball? Do you move Lonnie Walker, I don't know, for instance, in the starter, Schrooter into the starting lineup? So you're starting from the jump with a little bit more speed and quickness to match some of the transition buck as the Warriors are getting. Yeah, I honestly wouldn't mind Schroeder with that group. And I think you'd probably have to kind of stagger some of your guards out pretty quickly, just so you have someone to spell D'Angelo when he comes out or Reeves when he comes out or LeBron when he comes out.

but I've liked the way Schroeder's defended in this series. I like what he's given them as far as like matching that kind of athleticism and pace. And most importantly, I think you need to come to those decisions and those determinations pretty quickly. The Lakers not only have all the new personnel you talked about, Justin, but they just like did not switch very often at all during the season. This is not something they really have done or do or do very often. So if this is kind of what you want to throw into the mix, at least sporadically in the next game, like you got to get on the practice court and at least walk through some of this stuff so you know

what your principles are beyond just like, okay, we're switching in these situations. You need to feel it. And if you're going to have a different lineup with a new defense in the middle of a series against the defending champions, that's a lot for a team to digest. Like that's a lot to metabolize in a competitive situation. Yeah, to me, I actually want to see Rui out there instead of Vando, because he's demonstrated an ability and a, and a willingness to fire as soon as he catches the ball and he's open from three.

And I think he is, you know, size-wise and athleticism-wise, he's more closely aligned to what they're trying to do with that lineup, right, which is out physical Golden State. And when guys like Steph or Jordan Poole or even a GP2, who is strong and athletic but is way smaller than Rui, he's shown in a willingness to take those guys to the cup and try to draw some contact, right? So for me, I'd probably rather see Rui out there as to not destroy. the natural rotational patterns.

And, you know, as Rob mentioned, Shruder's been so key to, you know, coming in and having fresh legs to run around with Steph and also just taking over the ball handling duties when DeLo or Austin Reeves isn't doing it. I'm glad you mentioned contact because in this one, the Lakers ended up with their fewest free throw attempts

of this entire series. And it's not because they weren't getting hit. that's another thing. They had 52 points in the paint. So as much as we talked up, the Warriors' ability to get the cup with everything spread out, they actually scored two more points in the paint

than the Warriors 52 to 50. So it's not like they weren't at the basket. It's not like they were trying to cram it down the warrior's throat. And yet 15 free throws, which is also the same amount the Warriors got. And as much as like, there was a lot of consternation made

about this going into this. game. At the very least, you have to wonder, Rob, if, like, the, the refs were more aware of this because of what Steve Kerr was saying. You think he actually moved the needle on that? Might have. We need to get the New York Times, a predictive meter out here, but I think we got a little bit of activity. Don't give the people flashback to 2016, Justin. Come on. Yeah, we don't need that. Well, tonight felt like it, but yeah, that's another story. Oh, boy. If it is, if it is true. I feel like that might be kind of a first. I feel like usually those coach ploys don't really go as planned. But you never know. Like maybe it is enough to, to win over some hearts and minds in a game

like this. The proof is what it is. Like I think the Lakers definitely deserve to get more free throws than they ended up with. You know, maybe that's just a little home cooking by the Warriors too. Like in their own building, they got a favorable whistle that could be. That's what that's to me, it's more than Steve Kerr bringing it up in the press. I think it's just that home cooking. Like it's, it's like one, the crowd and two, it's been the talking point of so many fans and fan adjacent media that of course the crowd is reacting to any and all

Laker fouls. Like the reps of human beings, I understand that they might be affected by the atmosphere, but yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers got some more favorable calls at home on actual contact. Like, this isn't some contact list series. When AD and LeBron go down there, you have to put some kind of contact on them if you're going to stop them from scoring. That's just the nature of what it is. It's not like they have Embed down there who's actually bigger than these guys and can cleanly block it. You know, even, you know, Looney, who does a decent job of rim protection,

obviously we know Draymond. These guys aren't trees, you know. So that's something to definitely keep an eye on. Well, was, you mentioned Embed. I feel like we, we do need to do some real-time

fact-checking on Justin who said AD might be the most dominant big left in the playoffs, a playoffs that still has Nicole Yokic and Joel Embed in it. At least worth noting. I mean,

well, for one, Embed probably doesn't play as often for me to, like, remember that he was still out there. Wow. Shot's fired.

I thought Yokic was a point guard. I thought this was positional as basketball. Okay, okay. Didn't I read a Rob Mahoney blog? about that 10 years ago? I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah. Anything else you want to clean up from this one?

I feel like we hit most of the major talking points. I think we got it. Okay. Let's move along to the second game of the evening. Knicks 112 Heat 103. Was the Knicks stay alive. It might have cost Jalen Brunson and Quentin Grimes some cartilage maybe in their knee

because they played all 48 minutes in this game. We call that a TIB special, but they're still ticking, man. They're still going. And so do you have any hope that the Knickerbockers can get back into this one? It's tough. Like some of the stuff that they did even in this game during a comeback where it's like Duncan Robinson's only out there to do one thing and one thing only. And the Knicks were somehow forgetting about that at times.

I didn't think they put Duncan Robinson enough actions on the other end. in order to attack him and sort of play him off the ball. Some of that was, you know, got on my nerves, honestly, where I'm just like, why are y'all forcing me to keep paying attention to this? You know, like, I thought this game was over already. So that was just my own personal bias that somebody was trying to make dinner and watching the game at the same time. But, but I will say this, man,

The freaking guts and the balls on this Jalen Brunson kid are just incredible. And I promise you, if you took a poll of 90% of Nick fans right now, there's just an informal just guess out there, guys. Jalen Brunson is on the Knicks Mount Rushmore already right now. Just like the... Minted. The fact that this man would go out and play 48 minutes

and play the way that he played, make the timely shots that he made, just doing it all on his own. He's not being set up by anybody. He's not playing off of, you know, some gravitational pull of these other great players on his team. He's doing this shit by himself. And he's doing it against one of the best defensive teams left in the playoffs against Spolstra,

a mastermind of defense, and just getting it done. Like, this guy is, I can't say enough about Jalen Brunson and job this guy does, man. Yeah, there were two all-N-Ba players. in this game and an all defense center. And Jalen Brunson was like by far the best player on the floor to the point where it wasn't even close. And yeah, 38 points on 22 shots, great.

Seven assists, nine rebounds, awesome. Even more impressive to me, 48 minutes, as we've said, one turnover. The entire game, ball in his hands, creating so much off the dribble in crowds. One turnover is wild. And you know that Jalen Brunson is awesome because, look, he's been doing it all season. He's been great all year long. Everyone has seen it at this point. Everyone has played against him.

And man, he is still selling dudes with that pump fake. Like, how do people not know better than when he gets in the lane that you can't jump at that? And yet, if you don't jump at it, I guess he's just going to hit every damn floater he throws up. Yeah. The Knicks really shot out of a cannon in that second quarter where it was Brunson, Grimes, Barrett, Top, and Hartenstein. And it just seemed like they were running for the very first time. Like, let's stop and just point out, the Nistonson. Knicks actually won the fast break points in this game, 16 to 9.

It's 16 fast break points, the New York Knickerbockers who play in the mud pretty much all the time. It just seems like there was just something to that we might want to discuss the fact that Julius Randall was not in that said lineup. But part of it I also think was just topping, just like zooming down the core and being unable to run with these guys. It just felt like there was a little extra kick to that lineup and to that team. team when they needed it most. And you have to credit Brunson probably first and foremost for that. All right. I cannot believe that my role on this podcast has become to be a Julius Randall defender.

Interesting. He was good in this game. Yeah, he was pretty good. He was good. I think, okay, two very important things in this game. One, the Knicks got to the free throw line a shit ton. And a lot of that was Julius Randall was a really good drive and kick engine for their offense. Got to the free throw line a lot himself, made a lot of smart passes.

also kicked out for a lot of threes to the point that the Knicks matched the heat three for three, even with Duncan Robinson going off. I thought those things were really important, and a lot of that stuff points back to Julius Randall and the way he creates. I thought he was plenty good enough,

to be honest with you. And really, I think the triumph of this game for the Knicks, the reason they're still alive, is they look like the Knicks. Like, they did have the fast break points, but they also ruled the offensive glass again. Like Mitchell Robinson had that kind of impact again. Like they kind of looked, it looked at least like a familiar blueprint.

I want to give credit to both Rob and Justin here. Wow, I'm not the biggest, y'all know, I'm not the biggest Julius Randall guy. I don't think the answer is scaling Obie Toppins minutes up. That's not going to work, right? Like, that's not going to be how they win this series. And obviously we know it's not going to be some, yeah, let's play Hartenstein and Mitchell Robinson. Like, like, he can't be, his minutes can't be replaced at the four, um, both offensively and defensively, quite frankly, because again, I say this all the time.

Much as I love, I love Obie Topping. I'm, I'm one of his biggest fans out here. He ain't there on defense yet. Um, Julius Randall is an upgrade on defense to that guy. And so his minutes are important. His, his sort of innings eating, um, is important, especially on, on offense where, again, Jalen is asked to do something. so much of this on his own. And so I think he gave it a good effort. And the Knicks not completely folding when I was just like, oh, my God, are they mixing again?

When Miami starts making that furious comeback, it was nice to see. I think that's probably the key point here. I definitely feel like the Brunson Grimes part of that second unit probably was the bigger factor than the Topin-Hartonstein and the fact that they were probably playing against the heat second unit. I just thought like they moved in a way that they hadn't before and it was something that they needed at a point in the game where the game was still hanging in the balance and it probably was among the more decisive things. I also think part of this is the fact that the heat missed a ton of wide ass open three point shots. 13 for 43 here. And like as was was

was out lying there, I think this could have been yet another grinded out come from behind heat win. But a lot of those shots weren't falling. I think one of the big things that the Knicks did in this game, they did to a certain degree. The previous game is Butler has virtually become a distributor. Now, how healthy is he? Who knows? He's moving around like 38-year-old LeBron sometimes. But his like effect on the game has largely become just kicking it out to the shooters.

If they're not going to make those shots, then like that's kind of the ball game, you know? I honestly thought that was part of the reason Duncan Robinson popped off. I thought like halfway through this game, the Knicks were just so, used to the heat missing every open three they took. They just kind of stopped paying attention to whoever was on the weak side. And Robinson had his best game of the series because of that. But yeah, like not to oversimplify it. If the heat make the number of shots they're supposed to make or even slightly less than that,

they probably win this game. Yeah. I mean, Kevin Love 0 for 7, which probably played a big part in the Duncan Robinson minutes. But like, we've seen this over and over again with Miami. It's like they're going to work the math to the math. advantage by stuffing the lineups with three-point shooters and then having Jimmy be great. And if Jimmy's not going to be great, that's probably if you want to find a silver lining for the Knicks going forward, a pathway maybe sort of if he's went hard enough. Like that's it. It's like Jimmy's hobbled

and we're going to make them work for everything else. Like we'll give up all this, the shots and they're going to have to beat us, Duncan Robinson, who wasn't playing most of the season. That guy's going to beat us. It's not going to be Jimmy. Yeah, and I think the Knicks have to find a way because on a lot of these things, it's like the heat of running their high screen double pick and roll at the top, the same exact play over and over and producing wide open threes every single time. I think the Knicks need to find a way to gum up the works on the freaking heat's initial action. Like, you have to make them counter you, please, for the love of God, make them come up with counters in different ways of generating offense, right?

And so I think in this day off, they need to devise something that sort of takes Miami out of that because they were just walking into great looks in the second half, right, specifically. And so I think that's something to definitely look for. But yeah, Brunson played 48 minutes ago. I have to play another 48 because guess what is still do or die. And guess what we know? He's going to die. Tims won't be a way to kill him.

He will not shy away from that. I mean, I mean, Tibbs tried to kill Quentin Grimes in this game. Oh, my God. Really? Like, while we're devising things in practice, can we devise a way to get him two minutes of rest after a major, like, what seemed to be a pretty major leg injury? He looked like he hyper extended his joint, started limping, like, came up with the, came up with this gutsy ass still.

I'm like, yo, this guy is the steel laying it on the line. Still does not come out of the game. It's not like you didn't have an adequate replacement available. Like Josh Hart has been good at times in the series in these playoffs. He played nine minutes. It's just like... Tim's going down with the shit. In fairness on that, Josh Hart couldn't be on the floor for like two minutes in this game

without fouling three people. It was kind of a disaster whenever he was out there. And just like shying away from wide open shots. Yeah. So I don't know. I think we're all in agreement here. I think it seems like it's going to be a tough sledding. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. I mean, well, for one, in addition to everything we've talked about, I mean, you have Randall who got hit in the face during this game, had a swollen eye, Grimes is on one good leg and a bad shoulder, quickly is already out with a leg injury. Mitchell Robinson was limping in this game too. Brunson is exhausted playing 48 minutes.

How much do they really have of this at this point? You know, like you're just asking a lot of these guys to grind out games, especially after, you know, like they started this game with a 14 point first quarter and then had to have like a furious effort the rest of the way to win. That's just, that's exhausting for a team like this. For Tibbs, instead of maybe like playing your two wings who could actually hit a three-pointer every single minute, when I try it like just a couple minutes without a center, like is he the only coach that hasn't even flirted with the idea of small ball?

In the season, he played some of Topin and Randall together a couple games ago. a little, just like little flashes in desperate situations, but probably not enough, honestly. You know how Tibbs is, man. You blow an offensive rebound. You let somebody just score on you in the paint with little resistance. He's like, yo, put my bigs back in. Thank you.

He loves the big, man. Oh, my goodness. Randall and Toppin aren't small guys either. Like, if you're going small versus small, like they're possibly going to win the rebounding advantage there. And it's just like, just a little bit flavor. You know, you don't have to just like ruin Quentin Grimes' career for this. I don't know, man. My, my favorite subplot of this series as reporters have started asking tips, like,

are you going to play Derek Rose and Evan Fornier to the point that there had to be an update today that Evan Fornier was out with illness? I don't think, I don't think that's the answer, guys. One thing I will say that I'm proud of Tibbs for, um, since Tibbs has started coaching, I believe there have been three instances where a team with home court lost, no, there have been six instances where a team with home court lost in game five. Tibbs has three of them on his own. The rest of the NBA has three. So he avoided the four today.

And shouts to him for that, man. Congrats to Tom. This is a big one for you. You might have killed Jalen Brunson in the process, but you avoided losing 4-1 to the Miami heat. Yeah. At what cost, you know? Yeah.

All right. Let's wrap it there. Rob, are you going to still be in Phoenix the next time we record a podcast? Rob, by the way, for the listeners. I think I live here now. Yeah. He got to Phoenix for the Nug's Phoenix series win earlier this week.

It seems like years ago at this point. I think it was literally last week. I think I got here like a week ago. Okay. And he stayed there during the last game. And potentially if the series goes on, I assume he's going to stay there. So if you're in the Phoenix area, if you're going to the next game, bring water for our guy here, just to make sure that he's staying hydrated and well-nourous, bring a cliff bar potentially. And then we'll eventually spring him for the next podcast or somewhere down the line. I'll even take like one of those like heat resistant ponchos. I'm out here in the desert. I'm literally withering away. Please save me. Well, maybe it'll help with your, with your moisturizing and your skin. It's always nice for being in the desert heat. All right, on that note, on the note of moisturizing, let's wrap it. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production.

Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll see you next time.