The Ringer NBA Show - The Warriors' Wild Parade, LeBron’s Offseason, Kawhi Meeting With Pop, and Draft Talk | The Ringer NBA Show (Ep. 289)

Episode Date: June 13, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor discuss the Golden State Warriors’ championship parade (03:30), the best landing spots for LeBron James this offseason (08:30), Adrian Wojnarowski’s report that Kawhi Leonard and Gregg Popovich are scheduled to meet (21:25), and updates from the NBA draft (43:34). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every week from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k.a. Kevin O'Bomber, A.k.a. Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Cloidst, A.klox, Kevin O'Cliber.

Kevin. Chris, this feels weird. It's Wednesday instead of Tuesday. Well, we're born to Monday night, too. It is Wednesday instead of Tuesday. And Kevin, I did not add Kevin O' controversy because I watched NBA desktop last week. Oh, boy.

Yeah, I did. and seemed to be that on NBA desktop with the great Jason Concepcion, they kind of caught you in maybe a little bit of a lie about the gate at Oracle Arena, maybe a little bit of a lie? No, not not not I told the whole story 100% of truth. No, no exaggeration, no anything. It's all the truth. The story is the truth because you know what? If you go back to the original podcast, one of the pieces of evidence that they used was when I. I said, quote, no gate. The full quote is, no gate to go through. And I clarified that when recording the video with Gons, that there's a little white button to push or whatever that, like, it didn't work for me.

It's very disappointing to be, to have my story on trial on NBA desktop and everywhere else on NBA Twitter from Jason Concepcion of NBA desktop, which, by the way, is my favorite show. I love NBA desktop. So it especially hurts that. that my story is being put on trial. But I'm trying to find the security footage. Now that the Warriors parade is done, they won the championship.

Now I'm pushing the Oracle Arena people, Warriors PR to help me out finding the security footage. Because you know what? Apparently I just want to embarrass myself more by showing the actual footage. If I can get it, I want to get it. We need that footage very badly. And one of the repercussions of your lie about the story was Shay Cey Cey Ceyeron. guilty guilty until proven innocent

apparently right Sheh Serrano has long tried to tell everyone that you are a snake and so

you know and I defended you at every turn he says snake he doesn't use snake for me kind of a snake yeah

he doesn't use he uses snake for tape I feel like he's kind of throwing you and Tate Fraser in the same boat

you know what I mean you're not to be trusted and as a general premise and there we have it. And there I, so you say you're disappointed with desktop. Think about me. I've defended you at every turn. And there I am.

And people are hitting me up. They're like, maybe Shay was right about Kevin. And I'm like, well, you know what? I think this speaks to a larger issue in society where these television programs, these news programs, people just believe everything that they see on TV. Everything. I truly believe that's happening here. Well, then you should have hit...

It speaks to a greater issue. You should have hit NBA desktop with fake news then. Fake news. No. No. I'm not going to do that. I'm just going to do everything in my power to get the security footage. Fair enough.

And then I'm going to storm into the NBA desktop offices with those tapes and say, here they are. I can't wait. All right. Let's talk about what happened. Well, yesterday there was a parade. And one of your tweets that went out was, Weirdest Championship Parade ever?

it very well may have been. And the amount of alcohol that was seemingly consumed by the Golden State Warriors over the course of 48 hours is rather impressive. And I think only defeated by Alexander Ovechkin from the Washington Capitals, which it's like almost a week since they won. And I still see pictures of him drunk somewhere. It was, I mean, look, that whole person. I mean, not the parade itself. I don't care about the actual parade, but like the talk afterwards.

Like, that was really weird. I mean, like, it seems like they were just really prodding KD. It is super passive-aggressive against him. It was just odd. Like, that Bob Myers comment, but look, I'm sure it came off differently than how he intended it. But, like, the comment followed up, like,

Katie, you know, I think Bob Fitzgerald, the announcer said pretty much, that Katie can get whatever he wants with contract negotiations. Then Bob Myers was like, no, not him because he's not an original warrior like Stefan Curry is. It was just, what? Seriously? It just spoke to all the weirdness kind of surrounding that situation and the uncomfortability

with KD being added to the 73 and 9 regular season win team that nearly when the NBA finals had it not been for a couple. Stefan Curry turned ankle, J. Maureen suspension, a couple weird rotation choices. by like Steve Kerr playing Fessus Azili, Andrew Bogot getting hurt. They would have won four straight, and they have added KD.

Very awkward. Okay, so the other thing that was awkward was after the game, the quotes that came out, I believe it was Mark Spears that reported, and David West said something to the effect. He talked about all the behind-the-scenes stuff that nobody will ever know.

And then he went on to say, and we don't have rats in our locker room, so nobody will ever know. But if people knew what went on this season, you know, they wouldn't believe it. I'm paraphrasing here. But that was basically the gist of what he said. And I was like, wait, what?

Like, you know, kind of like the amount of drama that evidently went on. And it couldn't help but make me insanely curious about what kind of drama David West was speaking to, right? Yeah. I mean, every team goes through its own, you know, type of adversity. Whatever it is that happened behind the scenes. Yeah. I don't know.

Every team has trials and tribulations over the course of the season. It just so happens for the Warriors. They have two of the best players on the planet, two of maybe the 20 NBA's best players ever in Durant and Stefan Curry when it's all said and done. So those issues don't tip the scales for the product on the court because every team goes through stuff off the court. Here is the exact quote.

So let me get this right. Mark Spears was the reporter. and it said Warriors Forward David West says there was a lot going on behind the scenes that people will be shocked about when it comes out. I'm ready to be shocked. I'm ready to be shocked too. I'm ready for it. I'm sure it'll trickle out eventually, you know, when they write their book telling about the error of the Warriors won three out of four years. Yeah, it'll come out eventually.

But again, like I said, like every team goes through stuff. Like that's not unique to them. They go through team meetings and fights and arguments. There's family stuff that can affect teams. Who knows? But the point is that it still doesn't change the fact that on the court they have two of the best and then two other guys that are pretty spectacular in today's league, Draymond Green and Clay Thompson as well. Okay. So we expect them to run it back next year.

I saw Tom Haberstro put up a stat this morning that was rather incredible that they just completed the best four-year run in NBA history. their record through this year, regarding the last four years, was 265 and 63 for an 808 winning percentage. 265 and 63. I mean, just seeing that on paper is just preposterous. Pretty good, man. Pretty good. So, you expect them to, you know, they'll make the minor tweaks to the roster. Obviously, every roster changes with an offseason, but that they will have.

You know, they've got their squad, right? And it has reaped tremendous benefits for them. What may change is the rest of the league. And two major, major players, not the least of which is, of course, LeBron James, most people expect him to change jerseys next year. Now, you reported that LeBron James would be willing to hear pitches from the Cavs, Philly, Houston, and the Lakers. and I was actually, I was trying to pull up the odds of where, where like sports books are putting LeBron James going.

And everything has been rather fluid. At one point, I remember a couple of weeks ago, I believe Houston was there at the top. But now it is the Lakers that are at the top. And they, in fact, in this, I believe it was an odd shark that I was reading, they referenced your report. And so you may be moving, you may be moving lines here. just about how these are the teams that he's going to talk to

because it stands to reason that the top four teams that are the favorites to land LeBron James. I see that now that's funny. It's as if nobody else is reported that those teams

Sam Anwick was the first report of Houston back in December. I don't know. They gave a shout-out to you. It says... Thank you, on Shark. Okay. Well, if you're looking at it,

it says, Philly number one, I'm sorry, Lakers number one, one, Philly second, then Houston, then Cleveland. Do you buy that as the odds? Like in terms of order and what you think is most likely. I mean, this is what people can go bet on.

I've kind of always thought that he was going to be in L.A. You see some of these stories every once in a while. I believe it was Gary Payton or somebody like that said last week that, you know, LeBron James' kid is already committed to playing basketball next year in Los Angeles. We know he's got the houses out there. You know how much is... And the business interests. For sure, right?

You know how much he's into this being an executive producer and whatever else. So L.A. is the prohibitive favorite. Do you buy Philly as the second favorite in terms of where you think? If you were to be... If the story comes out, LeBron James is signing with... do you view that as the correct order in terms of what your level of surprise would be? Yeah, I think those are pretty good odds for sure. I think Lakers certainly, it's the easiest path for them to create Max Capspace and add other pieces,

whether it's through the form of a signing, like through a Paul George, or whether it's through flipping a Lanzo ball attached to a Ual-Dang contract or Brandon Ingram. Whatever it may be, the path for the Lakers is not difficult to build a longzo ball. the contending team. With the Sixers, it's pretty easy as well. They can create max cap space if they want. The question with that is the fit, adding LeBron James to Ben Simmons and Joelle and Bede, can Joelle and Bede say healthy?

How a hit, what stage has Ben Simmons at? And then with Houston, it's difficult to make it happen. So for them being third, I think that's fair just because of the salary cap hurdles. Darry is going to have to leap over to make it happen. And then with Cleveland, like, they need to overhaul their roster. Did it LeBron hint at it, Chris? You know, when he said, you know, need to play with smart players to beat goals. It's not just the talent.

It's the basketball IQ. So Cleveland, if Cleveland brings LeBron back, their roster is going to look completely different next season. So I think for them being fourth is fair. And then after that, Celtics and Spurs, then Clippers Warriors heat. I think Spurs, they're interesting. I don't think you can ever count them out. I don't think they'll get LeBron, but you can never count them out

because Greg Popovich, if you get in a room with him, maybe he can sway you. But I still think the Lakers are the team. Well, and it also is affecting what the championship odds are because while Golden State is the favorite to win next year's champion,

you know, they release odds right after the season's over. The order of that goes Golden State, Houston, Philly, Boston, Lakers. So clearly the Lakers and that number being the fifth highest favorite to win the NBA championship next year is a 100% hedge on LeBron going there.

Yeah, for sure. Because otherwise, they're nowhere close to having championship odds that you may feel like betting on. You know, the weird thing is with the Lakers, Chris, and I'm not sure if this podcast will drop before the video or not, but we did a video last night,

me, Chris Ryan and Danny Chow talking about the latest rumors in the draft related to the draft and one of the ones that I mentioned on there is that I've heard that the Lakers are looking to either add a pick in the middle of the first round or trade up from

the 25th pick into the middle of the first round to draft the player that they're targeting. Zaire Smith is the name that I've heard that they're very high on. So if that's true, I've also heard that like that would mean adding salary. That would mean like they have a willingness to add salary this summer, like Ramona Shelbur has reported before,

that they would be willing to add salary this summer and then pursue free agents in 2019. Like that, Ramona reported that before. I heard that again this week. If that's true, like that, they could still create max cap space for just LeBron. It would be they wouldn't be able to add another guy unless like they were trading a different salary. Like if they were dumping a, dumping a Lonzo ball in a bigger trade or Bernie Ingram in a bigger trade to create the two max slots anyway. It's all very complicated. It seems to me that, you know, everything is probably on the table for the Lakers. They're remaining, they're remaining flexible, but they also can't put everything into LeBron coming to L.A. because they obviously have to know the possibility that he

wants to join forces with Ben Simmons in Philadelphia, have an easier path to the finals and play with Joel O'Beed, won the best bigs in basketball, or go to Houston and play with CP3. There's no guarantee it's L.A. So I think they're wide. to be looking in other areas too and thinking about different paths because look man like polinka and magic Johnson they want to be there for a long time and so it's not about just the three four

X amount of years that you have LeBron well and the other interesting thing is as you have mentioned it's way easier to stay in the east and get there Boston is the one they're the hurdle whereas in the Western

conference you know there's just so many games throughout the season that you're playing in the Eastern Conference that you can coast and win. You know, we've talked about this before, though, Chris. It's like, yeah, the East is an easier path in the finals. Like, no doubt about it. Like, Boston's the team to beat.

Whereas in the West, you've got to get through this whole gauntlet. Like, there's no easy out in the playoffs. You know, even Portland's going to be challenging. New Orleans with AD. Maybe Boogie comes back and he's healthy. There's no easy out in the Western Conference, especially if you're like not the one seat. If you're the one, maybe you get an easier opponent,

but probably not. Minnesota's tough too. They get Carl Towns and Jimmy Butler and maybe Andrew Wiggins gets better. Anyway, but the reward is greater in the West getting through that gauntlet. If you're the team that, if you don't even allow Golden State

to get to the freaking finals, you know what I'm saying? Like if you don't even allow that team to get there when they're proclaimed like the greatest dynasty ever, like you said Tom Haverstrow put out that stat saying how they're the winning this, team over a four-year period ever in NBA history. If you don't allow that team to get to the finals, I think that's a significant plus on your legacy that you can't get in the East when

you're just getting through like the Indiana's of the world in the first round, which are good teams, good teams, don't get me wrong. And then Milwaukee second round, Boston Eastern Conference finals, if you're LeBron and you're playing for the Lakers or even the Rockets for that matter, and you're going to the NBA finals, you're not allowing Golden State to get there, and then you're facing this really great Boston team and your old nemesis on Kyrie Irving leading that squad. I don't know, man. To me, like, there's significant reward in taking the tougher path, that challenge of the West, and bringing back a team like the L.A. Lakers back to the glory days.

I think that would be a big, big, big, big, big, big thing for his legacy. There was at least some people, I think it was Kenyon Martin a couple of weeks ago that brought up the Knicks. To do the King of New York thing. And he was Cantor. Cantor did too. Well, and people are drawing the line to him and Fisdale, which they are very close. And so the Fisdale is the coach there. And so that may give them an opportunity that they wouldn't necessarily have had otherwise based upon their organization.

And also, as we know, monstrous market, as you are now moving to the next phase of your life, New York and L.A. clearly are the best to be in when you are getting involved in the entertainment industry, which he appears to be very involved in already, executive producing, shows, and whatnot. Yeah, LeBron's, look, it's like Mav Carter said in a Rich Eisen interview earlier this season. He mentioned how, you know, the market size doesn't matter for LeBron. Like, wherever he goes, LeBron James is LeBron James. He can work his business in from anywhere in the world with the technology of today, of Skype, whatever, FaceTime. Like, you can have face-to-face business conversations or business negotiations no matter where

you are in the world. And it's true. But certainly, I think, like, the one thing we didn't touch on, Chris, is the family factor. Where do they want their kids to go to school for high school? Where does his wife, Savannah, want to live? Like, those are certainly factors. And, look, L.A., they live there during. the summers, Cleveland, they've lived there during the season. They lived in Miami. We'll see.

We'll see. All I know is from someone who moved to Los Angeles in January, it really is a beautiful place. I really love L.A. I really love California. And if I were probably Bronny James, I'd probably want to go to California. If I were a kid, I'd want to move here if I knew, if I knew how beautiful this place was. But yeah, we'll see. We will see, man. I'll still think Lakers are certainly the favorite because of the fact they already live here and the fact that Lakers have immense flexibility to form and create a team. Like you're not joining something that already exists like with Houston or Philadelphia. And what has LeBron does, he's always shaped his own team for the most part when he's gone to a new place.

And L.A. can do pretty much anything. If he wants to play with a young point guard and Lanzel ball, he can. If he doesn't want to deal with that circus, with their ball in the family TV show and LeVar Ball, guess what? Lakers are going to say, see you later, Alonzo, and they're going to trade him for some type of package

that brings in another player that can help the L.A. Lakers. And maybe that's not for the best long term, but I tell you what, you're going to do whatever it takes to bring LeBron there. I agree with you, and I agree with the odds. I think he's going to end up being a Laker. All right, Kevin, we'll get right back to it and talk about Kauai Leonard. But before that, I want to tell you about Sonos.

I've got the Sonos play base and it slides right under my TV and my entertainment center and you want to talk about filling the room with sound. When it comes to watching a game, when it comes to listening to music on that thing that I want to have going throughout the house, the sound on this thing is absolutely unbelievable. I love my Sonos. The home theater allows you to move your TV sound to other parts of the home so I can take the audio from whatever game I'm watching. and if I've got some stuff to do around the house, I can just turn it on in every room. And so what's playing from my play base in my living room can play throughout the entire house.

And the Sonos ones are the speakers that I've got. I've got one in my kitchen and I've got one in my bedroom. And so I can turn on music. I can turn on games, whatever it may be, connect straight through my Wi-Fi, and I control it all from my phone. I absolutely love it for epic surroundings. sound and Father's Day is coming up and Sonos and Spotify have you covered go to fathersday sonos.com to get a code for 15% off when you create a custom Spotify playlist you can send to dad

simply select your favorite artist in the year you were born and then do the same for dad and bam Spotify will generate the perfect playlist to bridge the generation gap go to father's day sonos.com and get 15% off when you create your playlist. The playlist generator expires June 17th and terms and conditions apply. The other top five player that very well may be wearing another jersey next year is Kauai. He was the subject of possibly the most bizarre of all stories throughout this year. And given their organization and that market might have gotten, well, certainly got less attention than a top five player and such a bizarre story would normally get. Very good article by Adrian Wojianowski about the heart to heart that needs to be had with Kauai Leonard and Greg Popovich.

Now, one of the most fascinating things of that article is actually Popovich News, which is the first that I at least have remembered. in print in a story of this magnitude, it was the thought that Greg Popovich is not for long there. And so how does that possibly impact what Kauai Leonard eventually does this particular offseason? And I believe it was 2020 that there are many that believe that Greg Popovich would not coach past then with the Spurs. Well, Kauai Leonard is obviously going to be making a decision that will be dependent on years after 2020. And so what do you make of all of this? It is like a bizarre story that honestly, to me, stays bizarre. It's all very odd, Chris.

Pretty much Wojj reported that Popovich could possibly, this could be his last season, essentially that the odds are that Popovich isn't expected to coach the Spurs. beyond the 2020 Olympics. And there's also the possibility that the 2019-20 season is spent traveling the NBA and traveling the world prepping for the national team duties in 2020. So look, man, like there's a chance that this could be Greg Popovich last season as Spurs head coach or could just be two more. And I wonder how much of that has to do with Kauai.

If you bring back Kauai Leonard, maybe you're Popovitch and you want to extend your career and continue coaching more because you have this transcendent level player in Kauai Leonard if it gets fixed. But guess what, man, as Woge outlined, it is a lot they get to work through. There's this one paragraph in Woj's article that like, there's like four or five sentences in a row that starts off with the words. They'll have to talk about. And it's like, they'll have to talk about mental care, his relationship with the coaching staff. They'll have to talk about the willingness to offer a contract. Have to talk about this. Have to talk about that. Like, there's a lot they get to get through. It is a relationship on thin

nice right now. And San Antonio could work it out. Pop did last summer with Lamarcus Aldridge, but Kauai Leonard is a top five player, somebody who would be wanted by anybody in the NBA. So I think the fact Leonard has options, these are one year away from being a free agent, does make things a little bit more difficult in San Antonio. This to me, right alongside LeBron, is the story of the summer. For sure. And I remember just when it all, went weird was, if you recall, Ramona Shelburne, I believe it was, was in the back, and at one of the Spursk games, and talked to him. And a PR, somebody with media relations, like, ran and like, broke it up and, like, you know, freaked out over it. And then he was never, like, the arena again.

He was never around again, right? Like, I mean, it was, it was state secrets. It was, like, you know, he talked to Ramona. She said. that he was like, he was not like weird about it or whatever else. And when he spoke and then he was, he was like shuttled off and obviously the media relations people freaked out. And then it was like he was kept away completely as to never have that happen again, right? Like as for the, because like there was, it couldn't control that. And so the idea was like if he's not here, obviously he can't speak because everybody But he thought it was strange that he wasn't, you didn't see him around anymore through the rest of the course of the season.

And then obviously it was not on the bench during their playoffs. It's very awkward, man. It's very odd that, you know, it's tough for San Antonio. I wonder, like, within the story, Chris, that Wode reported that Boston made an offer for Kauai Leonard prior to the trade deadline. But at the time, San Antonio wasn't willing to entertain offers. But that'll be interesting heading into the summer if the Celtics were to somehow put together

a package to appeal to San Antonio to bite. Obviously San Antonio, I'm sure, would rather deal Kauai to the east rather than the west. It would be weird if we get Boston stacked plus Kauai-Lettered

versus Golden State. Talk about inevitable, right? Boston Golden State in the finals. More so than probably ever before. All right, I went back and pulled up the old article. I still had it saved. It says, on the night of March 21st, so this is March 21st, as Leonard walked through the corridors of the AT&T Center after the Spurs beat the Wizards,

ESPN asked him the simplest explanation to this situation, that he was hurt and genuinely didn't feel like he could play yet was actually the truest answer. Leonard nodded, then said, I mean, why else would I not be playing? people are just looking for spin Leonard continued i haven't been here long i've been here six years the spurs have been here way longer than that people are going to go with that take first and they said finally a sneak peek into the window of his thoughts but before Leonard could expound on it a spurs communication staffer who absolutely could not hear what leonard was saying

but saw he's talking to a reporter abruptly ended the conversation Leonard, who subsequently declined an interview request submitted through his agent and did not respond to a personal email, would not make another public experience at a spurs game after that night. Kauai Leonard, find a new slant. That's the real quote. Wow. I mean, seriously. But, I mean, that was March 21st. They talked to him in the hall.

It gets shut down. And then he is never around again. I mean, and you remember they put out all, like, this is just so much repairing. You remember that big story, you and I talked about on the podcast. And it was like, you felt like they were throwing them under the bus. They're saying, listen, our doctors cleared the guy. Like, end the story. It's a, it's like I said earlier, it's a relationship on thin ice.

Yeah. And there's a lot to work out. There's a lot to work out for San Antonio with Kauai. And look, man, it's like Woj said in the article, for San Antonio, they're going to have to decide, do we make that five-year, $219 million extension offer to Kauai this summer before, like, things are worked out? Or do you just, do you bring him back over the course of the season, which, again, like as Woj said, that's what history suggests the Spurs would do, is bring him back and over the course of the season, then offer it. heading into the summer. Well, and maybe we shouldn't bet against Popovich.

You can't. You can't. Because, yeah, because talk about thin ice, Aldridge wanted out. He wanted out. Like, he went and said, I want to get traded.

I don't like it here. And Popovich not only worked through that, he ended up having Lamarcus Aldridge be the guy that he was praising the most. And Aldridge

obviously had a great season for them this past year. He was all NBA level performer. Can I play devil's advocate for a minute? Okay. So with Kauai's weird quad injury, I know he's 26 years old, he'll turn 27 later this month. I wonder, like, is there a universe where the spurs are probably, like,

better off trading him for just this massive trade package because maybe this quad problem doesn't go away? There's always a chance that that happens. always a probability, but I wonder if there's a world in which the Spurs get this just massive offer, like a hall of future first round draft picks, a really young, up-and-coming player, a couple other pieces that are appealing, allow them to build, right, on the fly. And the Spurs, they won, how many games they win last year? They won 47 games without Kauai Leonard playing only nine games.

Remarkable. It's not like they're not going to be competitive. So if you're San Antonio, you can still compete without Kauai. You've proven that you can do that. I wonder if there's a world in which they're actually better off trading hand. I'm not saying, like, you don't trade a top five player. But I do wonder maybe there's a reality somewhere where, you know what, like wherever Kauai goes, that quad injury is not going away.

I just wonder. I think it's something that you probably have to consider. And I read something a couple of weeks ago. and it was the first time that I really considered like, man, you know, you are, this guy when he's healthy is one of the best five guys in the league. And he very well may be one of the best two way guys in the league, okay? But I read something in an article where, and I just pulled this up as you were talking, it said that Anthony Davis has played more NBA games than Kauai Leonard. and I was like there is absolutely no way. And I went and pulled it and sure enough, he has.

And he came in the league a year later. And wouldn't you say Anthony Davis has been riddled with the knock that he's always injured, right? Yeah. Like people think that Anthony, like, and obviously he's had a million minor injuries. But I think that that's certainly been one of the narratives on. Davis through his career, people do think of him as a guy that, like, is always injured. And didn't think that he came in the league in 2012 and Kauai came in the league in 2011? And Anthony Davis has played 410 games and Kauai Lennards played 407.

I mean, that is incredible. And the other factor there is Anthony Davis has. been one of the game's best players for four consecutive seasons now, whereas Kauai, it's been more two. Yeah. Like Anthony Davis has sustained success for a much longer period of time, whereas for Kauai, it was really in that 2014-15 playoffs where he really burst onto the scene. But then in 15-16 that he elevated his play to another level over the full season, then obviously he had a tremendous playoffs. And then 16-17 is obviously when he got the MVP votes, average nearly 28 points per game. eight rebounds, five assists in the playoffs.

Look, man, like Kauai Leonard is one of the game's best players, but he also hasn't sustained success at an elite level where he's a consensus top five player. He's a great player prior to that, but he still has only been doing it at that level for two years. Well, and it's one of those things, like when you were playing the devil's advocate, you do wonder, you know, you commit all of this money to him.

One of two things happened last year. either he's very badly injured or he failed. Like there's only two ways about it, right? I buy that the quad was bothering him in ways that maybe the Spurs just didn't read. I buy it because I don't think you sit out that whole, he sat out all but nine games.

Well, that's what he said. He said, why would I not be played? Yeah, and you're not going to sit out the season unless there's something wrong. Whatever it is, whether it was like the yips, there was a problem that it was like just in his head, or whether it was actually a physical issue, there's definitely something going on.

There's no way you sit out all but nine games over the course of the season. Even if you just have a grudge, I can't imagine that you would sit out because of that. And by the way, I just want to clarify, like I thought I was slanderer and Kauai Leonard. Like, he's only been elite for two years. Like, he, that's okay,

he's only 27 years old later this month. Like, he's got a lot of good years ahead of him. My point is that Anthony Davis has sustained success at that level for a much, much longer period of time. To me, Chris, like, I'm intrigued if Kauai does come back, whether it's in San Antonio or somewhere else, I wonder if there's another gear, another level that he can reach. Because what we saw in those 16, 17 playoffs with him averaging 28, 8, and 5,

that was on another level from what you see over the course of the regular season when his minutes are managed a little more, when the usage isn't there as much. There's certainly another level to Kauai. and I do wonder if he can sustain that over full seasons into the playoffs. If he can, might be the best player in basketball. The other thing is, is he what, how much does he benefit from playing where he plays? Right. Because we have really, they have never really lost a star.

You know, we've never, we never saw Tony Parker playing somewhere else. We never saw Managing Obly playing somewhere else. We never saw Tim Duncan playing. somewhere else. We have always seen periphery guys. They're role players we have seen in other areas. And sometimes they're Corey Joseph and sometimes they're Jonathan Simmons and sometimes they're Marco Bellanelli. I mean, we have seen periphery guys for them play elsewhere. What we have not seen is one of their most successful or certainly their, you know, their best guy or one of their best guys play elsewhere. And that would be fascinating to see.

What is Kauai Leonard? What's his level of success in a different jersey? Is he a guy that averages even more than what he does with the spurs? Because he's playing within a team function? Is he a guy that? I just don't know. I really don't. That's what I mean.

Yeah, the spurs do maximize their guys, I feel. Well, I know. I almost mean it the other way. Like in some of these playoff runs, we've seen him in a go-to scoring role where because of the nature of the playoffs, ball movement gets stagnated, the game slows down, your force and isolations. we have seen Kauai take on that go-to scoring role. We've seen him take on an uptick in playmaking responsibility. I do think there's more to Kauai's game,

and it's like with Kairi Irving last summer. Kairi wanted to leave LeBron. He wanted his own team. There's a number of other factors too, but at the core he wanted to lead his own team, and maybe he's not going to get that in Boston because of everybody else they have on the roster, Gordon Hayward, Jason Tatum, etc.

But with Kauai, look, man, like he might feel like there's more to my game. There's more than I can do. There's more that I can show. I can be a 30 point per game score. Put me in James Hardin's role and watch where I can do. You know what I'm saying? Listen, you don't have to tell me.

I was in person. When he was last super healthy, I was in person, and I watched the guy in game four of the Spurs Grizzly series. He was 14 of 30, 7 of 10 from 3, 8 of 8 from the line. He dropped 43, and it was like, like I was watching friggin' Jordan. Like he was unstoppable, Kevin. There's nothing you could do with him.

So good. So good. I mean, he has taken his game, especially in the pick and roll to another level. Over the years of San Antonio, like his development there, I mean, across the board,

obviously he's developed into an amazing player. Pick and roll, he's come so far. Yeah, well, I mean, look, that last playoffs that he appeared in,

these are his totals. 32, 37, 18, 43, 28, 29, 21, 34, 26, 16, 22, and 26.

In the game that he got hurt, game one against Golden State, he had 26 points in 23 minutes. Man. So he was on base for another, what, 40 plus that night. He was outrageous. Absolutely outrageous.

I'm believable player, dude. That's why for San Antonio, this is so difficult, all because yes, there's uncertainty moving forward as we talked about. Dick, you don't know if the problem ever goes away. Then there's the fact that, like, you could always sign up to an extension. Then a year from now, he could be like, you know what, I want to be traded? Yeah.

You could always have to trade a year from now. That's always a possibility, too. But you got to do everything in your power to fix it because he is a transcendent level player who was only going to be 27. He could have another 10 great years ahead of him. Let me ask you about a couple of the coaching news because they have happened since we last spoke. And it had the Raptors hired Nick Nurse and that happened yesterday. And then we since we last spoke, the Pistons made it official and they hired Dwayne Casey.

One thing on Nick Nurse, like that that's not official official. It's like I believe it was just reported by Woage and they're like working out details. You can't get more official than that. You know, I've had executives in the NBA tell me they found out stuff from Woj before, like, through the league wire or someone like in the respect to front of it. Like, they get, people in the league get it from Woj. I love Woj. It's unbelievable. All right.

So let's assume that that report is correct and that Nick Nurse is going to be the head coach of the Toronto Raptors and the Pistons hired Dwayne Casey. This is so reminiscent. It's almost like I'm having deja vu. Because once upon a time, I covered a coach in Lionel Hollins, who went to the Western coverage finals, set a franchise record for wins, and then his contract was not renewed because of disagreements between him and front office ownership, etc. On the other hand, they then brought in and elevated Dave Yeager. and this and and and and alino hollons got hired by the Brooklyn Nets where then that was like the end of the line right nobody was going to win with the Brooklyn Nets at that time you have almost that identical situation where you have a team that was very successful and they're not bringing in somebody new they're bringing somebody in that has been around that already has a relationship with the guys on that roster and I suppose in an in an effort to uh

You know, keep continuity, right? Not change out everything that you're doing. And yet the assistant coach moves over a chair. And then Dwayne Casey, who we knew was going to get a job, he gets a job that they say, right, much like the Nets do with Lano Hollins, big contract, a lot of money. And it's like, we're going to stick with you through thick and thin. And that Pistons job, I think you would agree, is difficult.

Right. Difficult in terms of who knows how long it's going to take. And everybody always says they're going to have patience at the beginning, but rarely do. What do you make of the nurse hiring? What do you make of the Casey hiring? I mean, it's great for Dwayne Casey that he's able to get a gig immediately with the Detroit Pistons. Obviously, maybe it works out. I think Blake Griffin with that roster, his health, obviously, this is stating the obvious. here, his health is paramount to their success moving forward. If he manages to stay healthy for 65 to 75 games per season and gets back to the level that, you know, you hope that he can reach as a playmaking big man, throw down lobs occasionally, they could be pretty good. They could be. I'm not sure.

You know, listen, we're obviously counting on something that maybe shouldn't be counted on. But I think if Reggie Jackson, Blake Griffin and Andre Drummond, if you told me that they're going to be healthy for 60. plus games. That's a playoff team. Yeah, I mean, what is it though? It's a six, seven, eight seed in the east, which isn't saying much at all. I mean, like, the ceiling for that team is so low. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's such a low ceiling. Like, you, like, even someone who's five foot 10 needs to lean over in it in order to get, get in that door. Maybe it, maybe, maybe it's a Luke Knorrh breakout. Yeah. I don't know, man. That's a, that's a, that's a rough situation for the Detroit Pistons. But then for Toronto, even

for them like two years from now like depending on what happens the next two with demar de rosen and kail lowry that could become a rebuilding situation in three years um but maybe maybe that's when the job's a good job because they have some young talent on their team it'll be a place to build up from um but nick nurse all indications are is that he's an accomplished coach um he certainly is he's coached around the basketball world in the british basketball league uh he coached there for quite a long time coached in the g league in the D-League, before it was the G-League, with the Iowa State Cyclones, and then with Rio Grande Valley Vipers. He's been around, man, and he was really the guy who pushed for the offensive changes

for the Toronto Raptors this past season. And as Zach Lowe reported with an article over the course of the year, he actually pushed for those changes a couple years ago when he was first hired, and it didn't happen until now. So maybe things would be different for Toronto, had those changes happen in the past. All indications are Nick Nurse is a really, really, really good coach. I'm glad he gets an opportunity. All right. Let's move on to the NBA draft, which is just about a week away.

I know you love the draft. And this is getting, this is now becoming silly season when it comes to the draft. And I say that because over the weekend, I've been doing a ton of draft prep and I've been talking to all manner of people around the league. And I said, someone said to me, who knew I love Marvin Bagley and praying that he can drop the number four where the Memphis Grizzies could take him said, so what are you thinking?

And I said, I think it'll probably go Aiton and then the Kings will take Bagley and then Atlanta may take Jackson and then you'll have a Luca decision to make and it'll come down to Luca and blah, blah, blah. And so I'm kind of like saying that. And the person said to me, you sure Porter's not going to go to?

And I was like, wait, what? Yeah, Kings like Porter. I was like, really? And it's the first I really thought of it. We said going into this thing. He was the immense wild card because he clearly hurt himself by playing. The unknown is always greater than the unknown when the known wasn't good. And his appearances with Missouri, in my estimation, were a mistake.

If you were simply only going off of what his accomplishments were in high school, it's a much different narrative on him. And I think it's probably more a consensus that he should be one of the top, you know, three picks no matter. But he did. He did play. And he did not look healthy when he did play. At the combine, he said, basically, I played against all of these guys. And I was better than all of them. No disrespect to everybody.

And you go and look, and his accomplishments or his accomplishments. I mean, he's Gatorade player of the year. He is national player of the year. He's McDonald's All-American MVP. The other guys that have done that are like Alonzo Morning Chris Weber and LeBron. Like you're talking like Hall of Fame level players. And so his accomplishments prior to that debacle at Missouri were unbelievable. And so now we fast forward.

and it's like, all right, are we going to throw out completely what happened in Missouri? And I'm not saying throw out the back injury because that has to be cleared. Throw out the back. No pun intended. Yeah, right. If you feel confident in his health in terms of just talent, could you foresee a circumstance where, in fact, yes, he does go number two. For sure.

I mean, I reported before that Kings like Marvin Bagley and Michael Porter. and I think Michael Porter was probably the guy that they would have been targeting had they not won the lottery and ended up with a number two pick. I think with Sacramento, that's one of the reasons why they're at least considering trading down, depending on what offers are available, because maybe you can get Porter a little bit later in the lottery. I think Chicago is a team at 7 that they're also interested in Porter, from what I've heard. So maybe you go down to five, you go down to six, and you're right ahead of Chicago when you get them there. Or maybe you flip spots with Chicago and they get somebody else at two. Who knows? But I do think Porter is on their radar. To me, Chris, what I'm intrigued by is you're worried

about Bagley dropping to the fourth spot. If somebody does trade up to two, I wonder if it's for Luca Donchich or Jaron Jackson. I wonder who the guy is that they're actually trading up for because look, we're doing all these mock drafts and we're figuring out, like, what order other guys are going to go. But this draft, I think there could be a lot of trading. And that's going to shake up everything. Okay. So now I'm going to ask you about the most likely to drop, okay?

If we say that, and I suppose like a Wendell Carter or somebody else could end up in the top six, you just never know if it's a guard, possibly a Trey Young or a Colin Sexton. But the consensus, at least up to this point, has been DeAndre Aitin, Luca Donchich, Jaron Jackson, Marvin Bagley, and then most have had Bamba in the top five. Okay. So let's throw Porter in there. Let's accept that he is in there. Of those guys, Aiton Tanchich Jackson, Bamba Bagley Porter. Oh, and Bamba's getting a lot of talk recently too, right, as a guy that could go maybe even higher than some projections have had.

had, which is amazing considering he's always been projected pretty much in the top five guys. If one of those drops, if one of those does the Justice Winslow and ends up, he's still available at 10. Who is it? What were the names again? Aiton, Donchich, Jackson, Bamba Bagley, Porter. Aiton, Donchard, so basically like the whole top five? Correct, the six.

I threw, you know, there has been a consensus. his top five, I'm throwing Porter in there and making it six. Porter, Porter, I think, would be. So he still remains the total wild card to you. He could go two and he could go 10 and it wouldn't surprise you.

10 would surprise me. 10 would. I think because the Knicks like him at 9. I'm not sure any of those guys fall like Justice Swinslow would be totally real with you. Interesting. I'm not. I'm not convinced any of them would. I could see team

Well, I know for certain There are teams that like Wendell Carter more than Momba So I mean that can be right Like I mean that can happen Window Carter's really good man I feel like he's He's been so underrated through this whole process

I haven't ranked fifth ahead of Marvin Bagley Which you probably think is nuts But I've talked to some people on the league That are like no it's not nuts We feel the same No here's what I'll tell you Kevin No I don't think it's insane I am sold on Bagley

And his level of success that he will have on the next level. But I also think Carter is going to be good. So, you know, you know what it kind of reminds me of is the Horford-Noa thing. Carter, Carter is so underrated athletically. I, he has been slandered so much saying, oh, he's applauding big. He can't move his feet. He's not elite athletes.

It's like, sometimes I'm wondering, like, are we watching the same dude? It's like, no, he's not like this lightning quick guy. Oh, God, but I would encourage anybody. There are, you know how many, one Saturday I set down, you know how many videos I watched of him from like high school and AAU where it was like Wendell Carter versus. And there's a Wendell Carter versus DeAndre Aten and there's a Wendell Carter versus. This guy was a freaking animal. I mean, he was so good. So good.

And guess what? We would have seen more of that had Marvin Bagley not switched into the class and gone to Duke to play alongside him. And that's like obviously not not that's not a knock on arm at bagley at all. It was just the fact that Bagley was an unbelievable college player. He was fantastic last season for Duke on the offensive end of the floor. But had he not been there, Carter would have had more opportunity to show off his skill, especially like his passing is really, really good. But yet he only averaged two assists per game. He has more to more to his scoring.

He's a good shooter. He can space the four to three. Man, like I just feel like Carter is the guy. that people are going to look back, I'd be like, yeah, you know, how'd he fall to seven? How'd he fall to eight? Carter's good. Well, I was talking about their relative high school ability, and I went back and pulled all of the recruiting rankings.

Like, so let's take college out of the mix, and let's just say all of these guys are lined up, and there's clearly hundreds of thousands of kids that play high school basketball, and these have been established as the best ones for a long amount of, for a long time. Marvin Bagley and Michael Porter were numbers one and two in every ranking. And for the most part, the reason I'm bringing this up is because it closely mirrors the mock draft stands to reason with the one and duns. So you're talking, guess who's in the top 10 of recruiting rankings? Marvin Bagley, Michael Porter, Mo Bamba, D'Andre Aiton, Callan Sexton, Wendell Carter, Jaron Jackson, like all of those guys are listed. okay so it went through and i tried to find out okay of all of these guys is there any who are the

who are the ones that were not uh that are not super high on any of these mocks this is good but might have been considered very high in the NBA or uh that might have been considered very high in high school and so the one guy that i landed upon and i think you know what i'm going to say is Trayvon de vaal so every recruiting ranking had Trayvon DeVall as one of the six best players in that class. So they lined up every freaking high school player in the country. Ahead of your guy Colin Sexton. Yes.

Every high school player in the country. And they said, this guy, by the time we get the six, he's off the board. And then he goes to Duke. It's not like he went to, right? It's not like he went to some school. and like they didn't make the NCAA tournament and he didn't right and it just went all wrong

and his you know he had mediocre numbers not spectacular by any means but he was considered one of the six best players in that entire class he is the only one that it doesn't match up with

you look at the mock drafts and they're all almost virtually the same names. They went to college for a year and now look where they're ranked. When we're talking about the NBA draft, they're going in this order. And yet Trayvon DeVal on most prospect lists

or mock drafts is listed roughly around 50. Which I will tell you, there's no chance he goes that low. None. One of these teams is going to take a flyer much higher than that. Sure.

I think there's a chance Duval does go higher. So what do you make of that? What I make of it is something similar to Adam Silver mentioned before, where it's like, traditionally, like the top high school players end up being the top draft picks in the NBA. It's the truth. It really always has been the truth. And this year it especially is the RSCI, the average rankings that take from rivals from ESPN, from Scout, the average rankings are usually pretty good. Like this year, besides Duval, you know, you have Mitchell Robinson who'll go a little bit lower because of his weird circumstances.

situation. Bernard McCoy will go lower. Jared Vanderbilt will go lower because of his injury concerns. But then you have certain guys who rise. Those are always the interesting ones to me. Trey Young was 20th. Shegildas Alexander was 30th. And both of those guys will be lottery picks. I went back and looked at Donovan Mitchell and he was 30 to even, he was much lower on ESPN's list. But I think the highest is around 30 something for Mitchell two years ago or a couple years ago. whatever it was. Yeah, Mitchell was,

these were his rankings, 44, 43, 17, 31, 13, 35. Prep stars,

that website had him 13th, and then Scout had him 17th. So every other outlet had him between 31 and 44.

Talk about a riser. Yeah, so let's get to the Devol thing. Everyone agreed he's one of the top six players. Yeah,

but he can't shoot. Like, like you're, like, with the high, with the high school rankings, you're ranking the best high school players. You're not necessarily ranking the best NBA players three years from now or two years from now.

You're ranking like, these are the best high school guys. And usually the best high school guys are the best college guys. And usually the best college guys are the best NBA guys. But not always. Like Duval can't shoot. He's not a shooter at this stage of his career. He's working with a shooting coach, Colin from shot mechanics on improving his jumper. And we'll see if that works.

at Duke, he couldn't shoot 29% from 3, 59% from the free throw line with clunky mechanics off the dribble. Yeah, it's a long way to go. The 3 thing doesn't bother me, the free throw line does. The 3's got it though,

because if you're a point guard, like, and this is, we talked about this, I think, yesterday when we recorded the video, me and Danny Chow, with Shegilded's Alexander, you know, one of the most important skills for a primary ball handler

is the ability to shoot off the dribble, the ability to create, And with Deval, he can create, he can get to the lane. He has really good ball handling skill. But with that, you also need the ability to shoot. And that's going to be the key from him. If he develops a shot, Chris, I'll tell you what. Like, there's a real high percentage chance he's one of the steals in this draft.

Well, that's the thing you can. That's why I look at it and say he will go much higher than that because it is the thing you can fix. Right. There have been a bunch of guys. I've covered. I can't tell you how many I've covered. over the years. But will he, though?

Like, will you? I don't know. I don't know. Like, if you're a team, are you really going to draft a guy who needs to improve his jumper over a point guard like Jalen Brunson or like somebody who's proven to do it? Are you going to draft him over, I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. Once upon a time, once upon a time, one of the guys that we spent probably 30 minutes in this podcast talking about was a guy that, quote, can't shoot. And that's Kaui Leonard. So it can't happen. I don't know, man.

Look, he couldn't shoot. No, it's not that he couldn't shoot. Like, that's, the guy who can't shoot is Ben Simmons. I remember, I remember a couple years ago. I got in the same like semantics argument with somebody from, I think, I forget it was a Boston sports talk radio show or TV. And it was about like Jalen Brown and Ben Simmons. And they're like, Jalen Brown can't shoot.

Jalen Brown can't shoot. These are his numbers. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. He can shoot. He's just not a good shooter, right? Ben Simmons is the guy who, quote, unquote, can't shoot. With Kauai, like, he was a good free throw shooter. Like, it's not like he shot 50% from the free throw on it.

At San Diego State, he shot 76% as a sophomore, 74% total. It's not like he couldn't shoot. He could shoot free throws at a slightly above average level. But he just couldn't shoot threes. And that's a develop. Let me ask you. about the Mo Baba stuff because he's he's moved up because I do want to be able to touch on a few other things before we got to get out of here yeah at what point um and I know you're a quote

bomba believer I watched the video that you and you and Simmons were talking about him I'm a believer he's a he's a bomb I'm bomb believable I don't know I don't know if that I'm trying to do the believer thing no I like bomb believer bomb believer you are a you're the captain of the bomb believer team at what point do you think it's insane if you take if you take moamba over blank it's insane i i i i realize this is like a cop-out answer but it's it's not like i i don't know if it's insane take him over deandre aton i don't i don't think it's insane i don't think it's insane like insane's a strong word like that's saying like you're nuts like you know i'd i would fire him

today. That's the level of like, why would you do that? I don't, I don't, I wouldn't go that far. I think it would be certainly a significant risk, but I don't think it's insane if somebody looks at a seven, a seven footer with a seven foot 10 wingspan who can shoot threes and roll who's smart off the court, a really good guy. If you, if you want to take that guy ahead of somebody else, I don't think that's insane. I think it would be a risk and I wouldn't do it, but I don't think it's insane. No. Okay. The other one that has moved up and has gotten a lot of talking. You and I actually talked about this yesterday via text was Kevin Knox. Because I brought him up on this very podcast a couple of weeks ago as a guy that I, when I was watching all of this stuff and going back, I thought, boy, could he be that guy when you're getting how many late lottery guys?

obviously when you're talking about Mitchell last year and we've talked about Kauai and Janice and Devin Booker and all manner of guys. You get to that late lottery middle of the first round and there's been steals there a ton of a ton of times. Paul George. I mean, you can go on and on. And so you try to kind of look at who's kind of projected around that range.

And Knox was one that stood out to me because I think you can watch him and see I look at it and go, all right, I could see him becoming a star because of the size, the agility, how good he is with the ball. And then there is this sentiment that he played out of position.

And maybe it didn't maximize whatever Kevin Knox is going to become. And this was the thing with Booker, right? This is why Devin Booker goes in the middle of the first round is because nobody saw it as a guy that one day is going to score 70, points in an NBA game.

Right? Like nobody, you, you, if I would have told you the week before the draft, Devin Booker is going to score 70 plus points in an NBA game. You'd be like, shut up, right? Like, if anybody thought he was capable of that, he sure is going 13 or whatever he went. And so Knox is kind of, and I know it, you know, also he's got the Kentucky thing in relation to Booker, but I look at it and I go, here's a guy that was super highly

thought of in high school. I think it's reasonable for people to say maybe wasn't maximized. Maybe he was out of position, whatever else. And so when I go back and watch some of the high school stuff, I'm mega impressed with the guy. What do you think? I kind of buy this Kevin Knox being the wing that moves up because I think wings are going to move up.

I think it's impossible to watch those NBA playoffs and think that wings may not be the most important thing going in the NBA right now. Every year, Chris, when I do rankings, this year I did a little bit differently. I didn't rank anybody until it came time to have to rank. I just had guys lumped together in groups. But at one stage, usually, like early June or so around now, is when I just kind of try to erase my preconceived notions of these guys. And Kevin Knox is somebody with reevaluating him, usually you go back and like,

you look back and it's like, okay, my evaluation was sound. I feel good about this. But then sometimes you look back and you're like, man, I really underrated this guy for this reason or that reason. And Kevin Knox is that guy for me this year. Right now in the NBA draft guide, I have him 17th of my personal rankings. Too low. I'm going to have him ranked 8, 9, or 10 whenever we update next. Kevin Knox, look, man, one of the youngest players that's going to get drafted this year.

A skilled 6-foot-9 guy who can shoot off the dribble who's very nimble off the dribble off the dribble, somebody who, when he's locked in defensively, is versatile. Not much of a passer, not much of a rebounder. But look, man, like, if you're projecting ahead with his scoring prowess and his finishing ability, there's a chance, I think, that he can end up, if we're picking like a quote-unquote steel of the draft, Knox could be it with his youth and his scoring skill and projecting forward, I think there's a chance that he could definitely be

one of the seals in the draft. Well, and here's the thing, Kev. I think what's happening is, you know, as time has gone on, people watch that Houston Golden State series

and people watch that Golden State Kev series and they sit there and they go, all right, where do all these guys fit in? And there is a plethora

of Biggs at the top. Where do they all fit in in these situations. And I know you have spoken to the fact that there are a lot of teams in the playoffs that have had big guys. And so you do need a big guy. But we also must admit, some of them have been able to be rendered ineffective slash unplayable. And they also are not the best guy on any of those teams. Right. So the idea is you could find a guy. But what you can't find a guy is that is going to be maybe a tremendous wing scorer. And with the way the league is going now, if he achieves whatever his ceiling is, which might be greatness, you could absolutely

see exactly how he fits into any game that is played in the NBA, any one of them, right? Whereas it's hard with some of the guys. You go, where does he fit in, right? What do you do if you got to play the Warriors. Like, where does he fit in in a game against the Warriors? Or where does he fit in against the game against the Cavs? And so you've seen now, like, I mean, look, Danny Aange has been the guy who's super nailed it in the draft the last couple years. And Jalen Brown, nobody, even the morning of the draft, nobody had him going that high.

And he took Jason Tate. Except for me. Yeah. Okay. I had a scratch my own back there. I had to. I never do it. I never know, I couldn't resist.

Like I said earlier. Just Danny H told you. No. No. It's because like that year in the draft, like, nobody in Boston wanted Jailin Brown. Like people booed the pick. People booed the pick on draft night. Everybody wanted Chris Dunn.

Everybody wanted Chris Dunn, I remember. But anyway, I think, do you agree with me on this? I think that's why you're seeing the Porter surge. I think that's why you're seeing the Knox surge. And then the other two guys that could possibly affect would be the Bridges kids, either McKell or Miles, because they're not point guards and they're not bigs. And so who are the best available wings because wings are at a premium now? And so that's why you're seeing people, you're seeing Porter and Knox moving up those boards. Certainly.

And I'm kind of writing about this tomorrow, almost like the other side of it, Chris, you know, in terms of the size of the wings and the forwards. I think the other side of it is like, Trey Young is so small. He is really, really small. He'll be one of the smallest starting point guards in the NBA. And we saw in the playoffs, teams are just relentlessly attacking the smallest matchup on the other side,

whether it's Damia Lillard or Terry Rozier, who is a good defender, by the way, whether it's Steph Curry. Teams are trying to attack the small guy on defense because of the nature. sure of the switching scheme, you're able to pick out any matchup you want. And plotting Biggs, though obviously have disintegrated. They don't have a role in today's league, the perimeter league that we have today.

But also small, small guys can be liabilities. And I do think that could have potentially explained the rise of Kevin Knox or Michael Porter or Bridges, as you said. Kevin, I cannot wait for draft class and I can't wait for the NBA draft, which is a little over a week from today. NBA season is all wrapped up, but hopefully we'll be able to pump one of these out once a week throughout the next couple of weeks,

and then after the draft, we'll have Summer League right around the corner. It's going to be a really, really fun ride. I think, you know, for after the finals, Chris, finals only four games, wasn't the most exciting. But I think these next couple of weeks, with the draft and all the movement

that could happen within the draft, heading into free agency with LeBron and Kauai stuff and Paul George, like this is going to be, be so fun, dude. I'm so excited for the next couple weeks. I agree with you. It's going to be an amazing offseason to say the least. Kevin, I'll catch up with you next week. Thanks, brother. See you later, Chris. Thanks for to listen to another edition of the Ringer NBA show. If you dig what you're here, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, and we will talk to you next week.