The Ringer NBA Show - The Way-Too-Early Playoff Predictions, Plus: NBA Sad Face | Heat Check (Ep. 319)

Episode Date: October 15, 2018

The Ringer’s John Gonzalez is joined by Jason Concepcion to discuss the latest development in the Jimmy Butler drama (3:23) and preview the Eastern Conference playoff picture heading into the season (9:15). Then, Haley O’Shaughnessy and Paolo Uggetti come on to preview the Western Conference playoff picture heading into the season (25:38). Finally, Kevin Clark, Riley McAtee, and Isaac Lee come on to adjudicate whose fan base is the saddest in the NBA (47:56). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's Ringer MBA show is brought to you by BetQL. Want an edge over Vegas? Download BetQL, the app you need to get an advantage this season. Discover value bets, line movement, and find out what bets the public backs with BetQL. The best part, BetQL is free to download from your mobile device. Head to betql.co and use promo code MBA for your three-day trial. Give yourself an advantage over Vegas and download BetQL. That's bettql.com.

promo code NBA. And now, heat check. Welcome to the heat check podcast. I'm your host John Gonzalez. Join as I am every week by our producer.

Isaac, Isaac Basketball is back. It's tomorrow. It's happening. Tuesday, basketball begins. And to set you up, we've got NBA Paloza

all day long on the ringer. com. We're going to have tons of videos from 10 to 11 o'clock Pacific time. See, back in the day, Isaac, when I lived on the East Coast, if I had heard somebody say Pacific time, that would have really pissed me off

because, like, East Coast time is supposed to be like the standard American time. What do you mean it's supposed to be the standard American time? I mean, that's basically like when you look at TV listings and shit, they basically list it. I'm with you. And now I'm not having it. I'm going to tell you we're here in L.A. Yes. We're going to give L.A. times. Yeah. So from 10 a.m. to 11 a.m. We're going to do an NBA fantasy draft live. At 11.45 a.m. Pacific, we're going to have a live sources say. At 2 p.m. Pacific, we're going to have a live one shining podcast. And then from 4 to 5 p.m.

Pacific. We're going to do an NBA wins pool with a ton of your favorite ringer talent. Simmons is going to be involved. House, Concepcion, Shea is going to be on. I'm going to be on it. It's going to be a lot of fun. And then that will lead us right into the kickoff of the NBA season, Sixers and Celtics. We're going to have a live watch party gang. So stay with us all day long. You don't want to miss that. You also don't want to miss the really fun NBA related content that we have on the ringer. We're wrapping up our best case, worst case scenarios for all 30 teams. I wrote about number five, the Philadelphia 76ers. Number four, the Raptors from KOC. KOC also has a story about NBA storylines that you want to check out. Number three on our best case, worst case, the Rockets,

Varyor did that one. Dan Devine, new staff writer Dan Devine, shouts to Dan, did an NBA variance story about the wide range of outcomes for a certain handful of NBA teams. And Haley O'Shaughnessy wrote an awesome profile must read of Hassan Whiteside. Haley is going to join us later on in the program along with Palo Ogetti, to preview the Western Conference, then Kevin Clark and Riley McAtee will join us for a very special segment that Isaac will also be involved

and I don't want to give away too much. But those three people represent our sort of avatars for fan bases that have been historically wanting. So we'll get into those. Historically. Historically, I want to emphasize that part. We'll get to that a little bit later

in the program. But first, of course, the Jimmy Butler saga drags on and we want to preview the Eastern Conference as well. And for that, we need a big guest. Best. Boom, Shakalaka.

He's heating up. All right, joining me in the studio, one of our favorite repeat offenders from binge mode. And NBA desktop is back. Here we come. He has so many ideas. He doesn't care who steals them on the internet. That's true. It's Jason Concepcion.

That's a callback that only a few of us will get. Only a few of us. Thank you for having me. The NBA season is officially upon us. We kick it off tomorrow night with NBA Palooza. Still unresolved. This is obligatory now. We're contractually obligated to date.

discuss this topic until it is resolved. It is not resolved yet, so we will discuss Jimmy Butler. Sham Sharnia reported that he is set to play in the opener against the Spurs on Wednesday. He says that the talks are dead with the heat for now. Jimmy practiced on Sunday. Glenn Taylor, the owner was at practice, which is reportedly a rare occurrence. Where are you on Jimmy Butler drama? I love it for the content.

Yeah, it's good content. It's obviously just an incredible mess. I don't quite understand why they haven't told them, listen, to stay away from the team while we work out deals. And don't harangue our young players who we have invested much money in and we have high hopes for. Please don't destroy their confidence by wrecking them with third stringers. So, yeah, I don't understand that part of it.

But I guess obviously they're concerned about getting off to a slow start. Maybe the kids getting booed. They looked absolutely lackadaisical against the bucks in a preseason game last week where they just got. freaking waxed. It is an incredible mess. Wiggins being like, let me get the exact quote, I have it here. This is

by John Krasinski. The Athletic. From The Athletic, quoted Andrew Wiggins saying, all I know is when we start playing the real games, Jimmy is someone you want on your team. Andrew, blink twice if you're okay. I feel like he's going to hold up a newspaper at any moment.

Chris Ryan put in our slack that it was serious Stockholm syndrome. It's crazy. That's one of my favorite parts. The Wiggins turn around because he's like, okay. Also, one of my favorite parts is Jimmy Butler screaming at whatever executive to go get him a salad with balsamic vinaigrette. Like during a game, I'm like, that's a good salad dressing choice. I like balsamic. It's kind of crazy.

It's aggressive, though. Yeah, I just don't understand this. I also love Chris Ryan's take from last week where he said, Cat should just be like, hey, trade me. I'm not calling for that, but I'm saying, like, I would not be surprised if Cat was like, this team doesn't have my back. Right. No one's out here defending me. Like, we're going with this 29-year-old guy with a ton of miles. on his legs who is oft injured.

Why is no one defending me? Why does no one have my back? Just trade me. Get me out of here. It's a crazy, crazy situation. Minnesota Timberwolves, esteemed statesman, Kevin Garnett weighed into the athletic and said,

I think Jimmy thinks his worth is a little bit more than what it is. He is a very good player, but I don't see him on the same level as KD and LeBron. But if they are A plus, he's definitely an A-A-a-M-M-I-M-I-M-us. I don't know if he had the power to come out and force a trade like this. Yeah, no shit. He didn't have the power to force a trade.

still stuck there. For me, I want all of this. I mentioned this on the pod last week and Chris was like, I don't want any of it. I want all of it. I want him to stay there this season. I want them to play through this and I want to see what happens because it's going to, if that happens, think about the entertainment value for us. He's going to start. He's

going to play. On Wednesday. What? He's going to play? Yeah. I don't get it. I want to see... It's very strange, but I am enjoying it thoroughly. I want to see all the drama. I want to see between the players what's happening with them. I want to see what's happening between the front office and the owner.

I want to see how Tibbs manages this the whole thing. Oh, man, Tibbs. The longer this goes, his head might explode. I love it so much. I feel like we should say, in terms of a Jimmy's statement that you can't win without me, the numbers bear it out. With him on the floor, they were putting up elite team per possession stats. Dan Devine had a piece today where...

Shouts to the new ringer staff for Dan Devine. Your staff are the great Dan Devine, quoting, cleaning the glass, who showed that when Butler was on the first, the floor, the Timmer Will's posted a plus 8.7 per 100 possessions number, which is an elite level number if you project that out. And then, you know, when he went down, their defense and their season indeed kind of went off a cliff. So he's right in that regard. But Carl Anthony Towns has a chance to be one of the greatest big man ever. And I don't think it's that great to have Jimmy Butler just haranguing him mercilessly. Why?

It also feels like what else happened. There's something else that we don't understand that we don't know about for this to explode like this. Here's my very simple question. You're a Knicks fan. Would you want Jimmy Butler? No. You don't want Jimmy Butler on your team.

No, I don't want him screaming at Chris Staps, Porzingis, and Frank Nillikina and Mitchell Robinson. The only team that should be looking for him is a team looking to really make some hay now. To go to a conference finals, go to a finals. Yeah. To really make some noise. Push them over the top.

Everything else aside, I love his competitiveness. It's just like the age, where he is in his career does not match where the Knicks are in their evolution as a franchise right now. It would just be bad. And who knows what they'd have to give up to get him. So no. Everything you're saying, I think, makes sense. And I think the heel turn that Jimmy Butler has really like leaned into here, I think that it fuels him. In fact, I think it does.

No, in fact, he told the AP that it does. He said, sure, boomie, it's not going to change the way I play. It's probably going to make me smile more. Please do it. I think he's really enjoying wearing the black hat. And I'm here for it. I'm here for all of it. What about your Sixers?

In a vacuum, yes. Now, is Markle Fultz on that team? I worry about that then in that scenario. But if you're putting him with Ben Simmons, who I think would be able to handle it just fine. And Joelle Embed, who would just bark back at him. Yeah, let's do that. I'm on board with that.

But it doesn't look like Jimmy Butler's going anywhere soon, so we'll keep monitoring that situation. The NBA season is starting on Tuesday. we're going to have all kinds of stuff. So we're going to break down both conferences. We did the Jimmy Butler talk about it. We're going to shift to the Eastern Conference because we're both from the East. You lived in New York.

I'm from Philadelphia. We talked about your next. I don't have them in my playoff picture, a little preview for you. But we're going to go through our top eight playoff teams and just sort of break down the conference. Sure. Who do you have at number one in the conference? Now, I think the Celtics are certainly the consensus number one pick. They're going to have Gordonback.

Team has another year to gel. They were obviously an elite team, Brad's team. Steven's, listen, working here at the room, you know, if I never hear Brad Stevens' name again, and it will be too soon. They're going to be very good, but, but I'm going to zig when everyone's zagging. I like this. I'm going to pick the Raptors. It's a fine pick.

It's a perfectly fine pick. I would not be surprised if the Raptors won 60 games. I would not be surprised if they won like 53 games. There's a lot of question marks here, but, but if Kauai Leonard is healthy and he's like, I want to show people that I'm still that guy and I'm going to kill people out here. That team has so much depth and perimeter defense. I really like them.

The throw-in of Danny Green is like one of those kind of underrated moves that basketball nerds are like, wow, they also got Danny Green. On top of it, yeah. So I'm going to go with the Raptors as my number one. I like that pick. Look, they upgraded from Demara de Rosen and turned them into Kwai Leonard. It's the same team better. And I think it's easy for us to forget.

although the Raptors fans don't like us to forget, so they get at us to remind us that they had the second best record in the NBA last year. And if not, if we're running into the brick wall, LeBron James, every postseason, who knows what would have happened. Now, LeBron James, in Los Angeles with us, the East is open.

And, you know, the Raptors' big weakness last year was they struggled against elite teams, against top 10 teams. You have to think that Kauai Leonard changes that. You put him on the point of attack, on whoever star you're playing against, and let the rest of the team pick up the slack defensively. It's got Siakum, Fred Van Vleet, Kyle Lowry.

Kyle Lowry's still out there. Still out there. They just have so much perimeter defense. I'm going to throw it. I like it. R1 and two are inverted. I've got them two. The one is the Boston Celtics.

I hate to do this. We all do. Look, I'm not going to spend a lot of time on the Boston Celtics. And I know it drives people from Philly crazy when I say this, but it's true. It's the truth. You look at their team and objectively on-publicly on. paper, they are the deepest team in the conference. They have just a ton of talent.

And on top of that, as you mentioned, they've got Brad Stevens, who we all know is a very good head coach. It sickens me that they were that good last year without Kyrie and Gordon Hayward. And now you're adding in Gordon Hayward and Kyrie Irving. And it's on paper they should be the best team in the conference. But I don't think the Raptors are that far behind them. And I don't think my number three team, the Philadelphia 76ers, are that far behind them. We agree there.

You got them through it. of the Sixers three as well. I think there are some question marks with the Sixers also. Fultz, obviously, chief among them. Is that a big question mark? I think so. They're going to start them apparently. The plan, according to Brett Brown, is to start Markell Fultz, to begin games,

and then to start JJ in the second half. Incredibly strange. There are some question marks there, obviously, so Fultz, number one. Number two, Ben Simmons's jump shot, the status of it, the existence of it, actually. Right. Teams, they're just going to sell out, really, to stop. him from penetrating knowing that he's not going to shoot. Does that change anything? But you have to imagine another year, another year better. I'm going to go with the six or seven three.

Yeah, I like this. All right, number four, who do you have it for? The box. We're in lockstep here. I also have the box. I think there's a pretty clear delineation between the top four teams and the conference. And like, we'll talk about the five team in a second because I know that they're going to have like a little inferiority complex about being left out of that like conversation. But yeah, I mean, they've got Janus. And I think like you look at those four teams, and especially now with Bud, and they're going to space the floor. That's the thing. Chris Middleton does not get enough credit.

He's a way underrated player. They bring in Brooke Lopez. I think they could squeeze some minutes out of him. Eric Bledsoe, look. He's shooting threes, too. He's a perfectly fine point guards. I like this team. I do as well.

You mentioned Coach Bud's influence on the team. Last season, the Bucks ranked 28th in percentage of points from threes. 24.7% of their points came from three-pointers. You're throwing a lot of numbers at me today. Very staty. I like this. You know, listen, I can't wait for the lead to start. I can't wait for it to start up.

25th in overall three-point attempts, 24 a game. In the preseason under coach, bud, 33% of their points came from threes. They take 40 a game. Now, they're not going to take 40 a game in the regular season. They're not going to do that. That's not going to happen, considering that only the rockets have taken 40 or more ever,

and they've done it twice, and they're the only ones that ever done. That's not going to continue. But that upward trend is extremely. extremely positive for this team. And Yannis essentially doubled his three-point production in the preseason over last season. So even if he's not making, the spacing that will generate against, especially in the regular season when it's like teams are not gaming specifically for the Bucks game in, game out. It's just going to create a lot of space for him to operate.

And like he's a guy that takes two steps and time shifts into another decade. So I'm really excited for him. I'm really, really, really excited to watch the Bucces. KOC also very excited to watch the Bucks. He wrote a fantastic piece on The Ringer.com about Janus and how bullish he is, about Janus being in Bud's system and all the things that it's going to open up for him. As Jason just mentioned, we encourage you to read that piece. My question for you, because I didn't get to ask KOC this,

because I haven't seen him yet, but I will soon when we do Paloza. But I'll ask you, like I could see in the same way that we had Raps in Celtics 1 and 1A and the Sixers right in that mix, too. I could see any of those three teams winning the conference provided the things break right for them? How right would things have to break for the bucks to win the conference? Could you see a war? Is there a scenario where they win the conference they go to the finals? Or is that a step too far for you? When the conference is tough, I could see them fighting their way to the finals in the players.

I mean, they gave the Celtics everything I could handle. I think what would be required is someone really unexpected breaking out and their three pointers really landing at a good rate, like say 38 to 40 to 42 percent or something. something like that. Like, if they take a ton of threes and that really works for them, they're one of these high variance teams where I could see them rising. It's just a stretch for me to think that they could win the conference. I'm in agreement with you on that.

I think it would be like Janus would really have to go supernova. In that scenario, then all of a sudden we're talking about MVP on us, right? I mean, like, if they're conference finalists, then I think, then he's 1,000% in that conversation. I mean, if he's taking like three and change threes a game and converting them at a good rate, he's the MVP. I'm not there on that yet. I don't think that happens.

The honest three pointers are like, is still hard for me to. He's taking them in the preseason. It's hard for me to wrap my head around. Team number five for you in the Eastern Conference. Team number five, the Indiana Pacers. I also have the Pacers of five. Wow, look at this, John.

And this was not planned. We did not talk about this. So those top four teams I like quite a bit. And then I look at the Pacers and go, they're just solid. They're going to be good. They're going to be good. Isaac Lee took them in our league pass draft.

He likes them quite a bet. Is it going to be a good basketball team? Defense is fun. Well, I don't know that I would describe the Indiana Pacers as fun, per se. They're going to be excellent. Excellence is fun. I think excellent? Excellent is a little strong.

I would say good. They're good. They're good. They're fine. This is the right way to describe the Indiana Pacers on any given night. They could beat any team in the league. They're going to be right in that playoff mix. They're going to give some teams some trouble.

I agree. And then I go, good job. What would have to happen for them to be better than good is, is Miles Turner is going to have to bounce back from what was mildly a stalled season last year after much promised the previous season. You'd like to see him bounce back now. Teams are going to have another, they're going to be looking for Oladipo this year. They're going to be looking to stop them.

You have to imagine they're going to do everything to just say, okay, Victor Oladipo, let's see if your supporting cast can pick up the slack here. that's why I have them here because it's essentially Oladipo and then you're waiting for someone else to step into the fold. I am generally pretty dubious of offseason

Instagram workout updates. Are we talking about Miles Stern? Looks great. Looks like you, John. This is a podcast. People can't see it. God's is jacked for some. John has become Jack over the last month.

It's apocryphal. He's trading and lies to, I don't know, derail this podcast. But I'm generally, I am generally dubious of the guys who come back from the offseason and any sport and declare themselves to be in career best shape. However, Miles Turner is looking pretty good. De Manas Sabonis looking pretty good. Ola Depot did it last year. So all of a sudden, Indiana Pacers might be the fittest team in the league.

Very professional basketball team in Indiana. That's a great way to put it. There's just no drama. They play. They just get at nice players. It's perfect for Indiana, right? It's like the perfect Indiana ethos. All right, I think six, seven, and eight is where we might start having some deviation here

because I looked at the Eastern Conference and I went, do we have to have eight playoff teams? Because it really falls off a cliff after this. Where are you at six? At number six, I have your Washington Wizards. The Washington Wizards. Joe House, shouts the House. You know, they're the Wizards. They've been the Wizards for some time now.

They've added Dwight Howard and his strained ass muscle. Which it was a, so when that came out, I swear to you, I raced to slack to make the he's a pain in the ass. And now he has one joke. And you and like 12 other staffers had beaten me to it. It's fucking great. It was amazing. They also have Austin Rivers on this team now.

Austin Rivers out here just saying stuff. Doing stuff, saying stuff. People sleeping on the Wizards. We can be the top team in these. It's like, Austin, please calm down, my friend. Can we bring up one more like out of control Washington Wizards quote? Please. Bradley Beal to the Fills.

athletic. Oh, I love this one. On Jeff Green. I love this. This is a thing that he said out loud on the record, and it was, Jeff is a star man because he's built like LeBron and almost plays like him. Almost. Almost is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

I just wanted, almost is doing a phenomenal amount of work. So much lifting. So much lifting in that sentence. He's like LeBron, man. Look, so COC is frequently maligning John Wall. He thinks he's the least elite of the elite point guards. out there and has disparaged him to no end. I like John Wall just fine.

I like John Wall. John Wall, however, and I think we've talked about this on six straight, he checks running. Let's make it seven. John Wall has gone sort of the opposite way of Miles Turner. John Wall did not get it, it appears in career best shape, came back looking a little bit thicker, looking like he could play potentially tight end. And flat out said, he was asked by the media about like going out and partying too much.

And he was like, yo man, I'm an adult. I'll do what I want. I'll do what I want. And I'm like, iconic. Fucking give me the wizards, man. They are, they are. Timberwolves East in terms of drama. I love that. Also, I'll just say,

thick players is a movement right now. It's not just a couple guys, they're back in business, John Wall. Yeah. Partying. Doesn't care. Doesn't give a shit. I love it. Luke Adonchich.

Listen, he's not... Give me more cheese on the nachos? He's not dad bod age, but he's premature dad bod. He's already in it. It looks like he just came out of the garage, like working on his Camaro. He's going to be doing a Levi's commercial

with Brett Far. within the next couple of months. Nicola Yokic, I don't think, has ever worked out? Ray Felton's still alive. Ray Felton is still here. Dion Waiters is back and better than ever? This is great. We should have, we'll do this on heat check.

Well, we'll do a rankings of these guys. It's a movement right now. It's fantastic. I have the Wizards at 7. My 6 team is the heat. I mess with that a little bit. I think they're pretty much in that same pocket there. I have that flipped.

Yeah. I think they're in that same tier. The heat, another professional basketball organization. They play hard. They have a system. Everybody knows what the system. is. Yeah, Drogic is out there still functional point guard, and I like Josh Richardson.

I think he's underrated. That would have been a nice piece from Minnesota had they pulled off the Jimmy Butler trade. They're professional. And White Side, obviously, is the X factor. He is the X factor. Check out a great piece. Excellent. On Hassan White Side by Haleo Shonnessy.

The Great Heli O'Shaughnessy on the ringer.com. We're big fans of that site and of Haley O'Shaughness. A great website. Agree. Last team for you. Who do you have just squeezing into the Eastern Conference? preference playoffs. I picked the Pistons mainly because I can't pick the Nets.

The Pistons, you just have too much talent to not make the playoffs. Like, it would just really be disastrous for them to not make the playoffs with Blake Griffin on that roster. The East, especially as we stated, the bottom half of the playoff picture is pretty shaky. I'm going to go with the Pistons. I also had the Pistons. With the exact same eight teams, just in slightly different order. The Pistons for me was a combination of, yes, they have some talent.

They've got a new coach now. But it was kind of like by default. Yeah. It is mildly by default because I want, well, I like for a half a second, I was like, could the calves still make it? No. The heart and it's, no, it's not going to be the next. Bless your heart.

We'll talk about them real quick before we go. I hope it's not the Knicks. Bulls magic and Hawks absolutely not. And that really, like you said, kind of leaves the nets. And then I'm like, I'm not in on the nets either. I guess it has to be the pit because you have, I checked. You got to have eight teams. You got to have eight.

And Blake Griffin, listen. Still living in Detroit. Still living in Detroit and is a very good basketball player. When healthy. When healthy. So, crossing my fingers for him. Real quick, before we go, how do we feel about the Knicks? As you just stated, you don't want them to be winning things.

We're not sure when Chris Stavs, Pursingis, your large adult son will be back. If he'll be back at all because there's a world in which they go, hey, maybe we want a redshirt him this year, increase our draft pick status. Charks wrote a very interesting piece on the ringer.com on said ringer.com about KD to the Knicks, pre-agency alive and well, and I would want that for entertainment purposes, for content purposes. Charks makes the case on basketball, saying that it makes sense from a basketball perspective. It really does.

Listen, how does Kevin Durant not make sense for a basketball perspective for any team? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I am hopeful. I'm not getting my hopes up too high, at least not out in public, deep inside my psyche. I'm quite excited. The kind of chatter that you hear from the sources that are chatting. Chattering calls to mind LeBron to Los Angeles and the chatter that preceded that move. So, I mean, it feels very possible.

I hope it happens. As for the Knicks this season, it's all about development. Just develop the young players. Don't make any dumb moves such as stretching Yo Kim Noah's contract over multiple seasons for some reason, affecting your cap picture when you don't know what your cap needs are going to be going forward. Don't do anything. Did they do that? They did that.

Okay, don't do it again. Don't do anything like that again. Just develop these young guys. And, you know, don't be afraid to tank if you need to. Don't be afraid to tank. I like all of this. I'm here for tanking Nix. I love when the Nix are really bad.

But if it's in the service of, I mean, as a Philadelphia, and that's just like, it has to happen. But in the service of potentially setting them up to reboot the franchise. Let's reboot it. I like also not just when the NICs are really bad, but when the NICs are really good, it's also fun in the same way that when the Celtics and the Sixers are really good. and the Eastern Conference is alive again.

Give me that. I 100% agree. Give me that. Give me some rivalries. Give me some rivalries. Let's reboot the Eastern Conference. Jason Concepcion. Binge mode is out here.

NBA desktop is back. We are super excited for that. He'll be all over NBA Paloza on Tuesday. Jason, you are the best. Thank you for doing this. Thank you. All right, that was Jason. Jason was killing it.

And now we're going to bring in two more killers, Powell and Haley. All right, joining me in the studio, two of our favorites here at the Heat Check podcast. I say that about everybody. This time I actually really mean it. Two double staff writers, Haley O'Shaughnessy, Palo Getty.

How things, guys? What's up? I'm ready for basketball. You guys are here. Very excited about this. We did the Eastern Conference. With Jason Concepcion, it was very excited. And now we're going to do the Western Conference. You had the opening act. And now you have... And now this is... We had the appetizer. Now it's the main course,

the Western Conference. So the way we did it, which Jason is, we started from one, we'll go to eight, and we'll just run around and we'll see what we have different and we'll make a case for why we put them in that order. I have a hard time believing that you did anything other than what I did for number one, but we'll start with Haley. Okay, Warriors. You're also the Warriors. We can all agree on that. This is very boring. It's anticlimactic in the extreme. I am well past the point of being excited about the Warriors. Danny and I had a conversation about this last year when I was at the playoffs when I was writing about how they've made being really good, boring.

And he took umbrage with that. He still thinks that their style is beautiful and aesthetically pleasing. I think it can be. But I've gotten to the point where, like, you just know they're going to be good. And that sucks a lot of the entertainment out of it for me. Well, they're not boring because of how they play. He's correct. Like, how they play is really beautiful.

You get to see Steph Curry do crazy things and Kevin Ray do crazy things. But it's boring because we know that at the end of the game. they're going to win. I have a sliver of hope that they're going to be a little more exciting this year because of their motivation in terms of how they incorporate a boogie into the equation, but also hoping that Steph takes on a bigger role. Because I think that's what makes them a little more fun to me is that when Steph has more of a rule in the offense.

And by that, I mean, like, just checking up threes, which since Duran arrived, that's been mitigated a bit. So I'm hoping that they're a little more fun in terms of they give more to stuff to do. I've been thinking about in all the preview stuff, of course the Warriors are going to be first. Anyone who says otherwise is attention takes, you know. I mean, favorite to win the title too. But I also have been thinking about, like, I think everyone just forgot that Steph was like injured multiple times last year. And that stuff just doesn't go away because you get older if anything happens more often.

Yeah, getting old sucks. I'm here to tell you. Like, the older you got, it's much harder. And they're professional athletes. That's the thing that people always bring up with the war. where they go, oh, well, you know, they're one injury away from, like, making things interesting. I'm like, are they? They're at some point this season, if they get boogie back, they're going to start five all-stars.

And if you take one all-star off, that's still four all-stars. And if you take two all-stars off, that's still three all-stars. I'm doing the math on the fly here, gang. I think it's pretty fucking impressive. That's a lot of all-stars. So, like, I don't know, the redundancy of talent there still makes it that I think that it's, you know, like, we're barreling towards yet another Warriors title. And, like, Jason and I just had a conversation about this.

I'm all the way here for KD to the next or anywhere that's not Golden State so that we could just unplug one of the pieces of the super team and have a little bit of hope going into a season that it's not a foregone conclusion. Well, but, I mean, even if he doesn't end up leaving somewhere else, like the way that the Clay and Jemond, like them resigning is going to be tricky. Yeah. Because they're both going to. A tax bill would be bananas. Yes. And they're both going to want bigger contracts because they're like, okay, well, we get it. We've been the third and fourth fiddle, but we've also won how many championships.

I mean, it doesn't make sense for Durant to go anywhere because they could literally become one of the best teams of all time, like a dynasty. But the fact that there's rumors and rumblings that New York seems like a destination he's interested in, like, thank God for us, right? Like, I mean, that'll make the East more interesting. That'll make the West more interesting. So I'm, I'm really, yeah, make the ringer.com more interesting. Yeah, we're here for it. It works all the way around. for that. All right. That's enough for Warriors talk. I'm already tired of them.

Number two in the Western Conference. Powell, you go first. I have the Rockets. I couldn't not. I really, really thought hard. I was ready to come in here and just blow it up. Just blow it up and put the thunder at number two if they would have been healthy. But they're not healthy.

You have obviously Westbrook probably won't start the season. Andre Roberson needs to be re-evaluated. In January. Yeah, in January. So I was so in on this year's thunder. And I still am to an extent. Just not to the extent where I would be comfortable putting them at number two. And with the Rockets, I mean, they did lose Trevor Arisa and Luke Montmutei,

but I think you have your top two players coming back. There's no reason to doubt them a little bit. Right. I have the Rockets too. And even though they did lose Arisa and Luke Bammutei, what worked is still there. They still have Chris Paul. They still have James Hardin.

They still have Clint Capella underneath. And all of the pieces that they have to back it up are still there too. The interesting part will be Mello, right? Like, how does he fit in? Does he hurt them as much as he hurt OKC? Is he going to come off the bench? Is he going to not take as many mid-range shots? What are you going to get out of him if anything defensively, generally, the answer is nothing?

Mello's going to come off the bench. There's literally no doubt my mind because it's not what's best for the team for him to start. And I do not think that Mike Dantonie is going to let this guy make a decision that's best for him. After everything that happened with the Knicks, he's like, actually, I'm the one who's in charge now. Yeah, and you've got that history there. It's very interesting. I also have the Rockets second. Not surprisingly, that's 65 wins last year and most wins in the NBA.

They're over under win total this year is 54 and a half. So that's a huge, that's a massive drop off. A little disrespect for the Rockets. I think people are sleeping on the Rockets. Their system is fantastic. They play really good defense. They shoot a shit ton of threes. They run.

They get to the line. it can be sort of the opposite of the warriors in terms of aesthetics because unless you really like watching free throws it can sometimes be boring but I think they're great There's not really much ball movement they just pass it off to it either they play a lot of isoing in or they pass it off to the wing Which suits mellow but not a different kind of iso Right yeah there's a difference so yeah Mellow will be fine you will be helpful if it's off the bench when they need the mid-range game

Because if you think about last year, if you think about two postseason ago, it was very clear when they lost the spurs in the playoffs that they needed some mid-range help. And so you bring Chris Paul and then Chris Paul gets injured. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens with the Rockets after they unplugged a couple of those pieces. But I still think that they're two. I'm going to go first for three. Three is where we're going to start having some deviation. I have a feeling. I'm planning my flag.

I know where this is going. You know exactly where I'm going because Powell and I have spent a lot of time out there. the third best team in the Western Conference this season, and I toyed with them at number two. Wow. LeBron James and the Los Angeles later. I am all the way in on the Lakers, folks. The cooling is flowing.

I am 1,000% in on the Lakers. They have some serious problems in terms of who they're going to play at the center position. You can't squeeze 48 minutes out of Javale McGee every night, and then after that they're trying to run Kyle Kuzma out of there. And they think they have shooting. I would beg to differ. You realize that you just picked them for the third best team, right?

I picked them for the third best team, and I'm outlining the hiccups. However, LeBron James is still LeBron. I checked. He's here. He's doing LeBron stuff. They have a lot of people and pieces that they can shuttle out that are interchangeable. They're very switchable. I think they're going to be good.

You know the most important question about LeBron? Tell me. Is he disappointed by Drake? You're going to have to explain it to him. Are you washed? I'm 1,000% wash. But are you talking about him dancing on stage? What are you talking about?

On LeBron's show. On his show. HBO show The Shop. Right. I didn't watch the whole thing. There was a scene. Did you watch any of it? No, I saw, you're rolling your eyes with me.

I saw the clip when Drake was dragging Kanye. That part I saw. I saw that clip. He said, we were talking about releasing a disc track to push a T's disc track response. And he said that he don't want to do it because basically the information he had was too mean, which I'm like, okay. Please. Okay. You're dismissive eye rolls in this segment

are really better suited for video. He texted LeBron and said, I didn't want to disappoint you. And LeBron was like, you never could. It was so sweet. And then he was on stage at his concert this weekend. Look, we'll take all the Drake, LeBron shop content. We can get at that heat check. I just think basketball-wise, it's going to be a good team.

You've been out there a lot. To your point, though, I'm really, okay, so there's two aspects of this. One is the Brandon Ingram factor, which is, like, how he develops and what kind of leap he takes. And what position they put in at? And what position to put it at? Well, I mean, yes. With just how many different positions he can defend and how flexible he can be, that will key a lot of their success this season, not just LeBron.

But in terms of LeBron specifically, I'm really interested to see, like, what his motivation is? Because we've heard, I've heard both sides of the coin, if you will, where it's like, he's going to take, like, a year off, like, slow just to get the young kids up to speed and, like, just kind of go about. I don't think he has that in his DNA. That's what I'm saying. And then the other side is, like, how could you possibly say that about what? one of the most competitive people on the planet, one of the best player in the sport.

So that's what I think will be the difference between them being the third seed, possibly, or the six seed. Third seats for you guys, because obviously not the Lakers, which makes whoever you have the three wrong, but we'll go with it. I know Paulo and I agree on this. We both pick the Thunder.

You both pick the Thunder. Yeah. I have the Thunder in the playoffs. They're a little bit farther down on my list. Tell me what, like you're not concerned about Russ starting off on the mend? No, I think that Roberson's like the end. injury, obviously, to be most worried about.

But I think that what they have the benefits in this year they didn't have last year was a year of chemistry building between Westbrook and Paul George. And that's going to help a lot. Also, you have Paul George defending as well. Love Paul George. If you're going to have anyone there to, like, kind of help make up for the best defender on your team who's injured, he's the guy you want. And also, I think that they have a lot of, like, X factors.

No one's even thinking about Nerling's Noel. I think about Nerlands all the time. I love Nerlands. I love Nerlands. And I continue to believe Rick Carlisle aside that Nerlands is talented. Oh, I do too. And what I like about Nerlin's, and I've made this point a zillion times, but a zillion times and won, why not?

He was sort of like a mini Joachim Noah, good Joe Knoa starter kit, in that offensively he doesn't need the ball, he's just going to roll to the rim and he's fine. But he does a lot of other things. He rebounds. He runs the floor extremely well. And he's a way underrated passer. And he can guard multiple positions. So I think he could be super useful for that team when you're spelling Stephen Adams

and you need another big to roll in there and you're not going to fall off defensively. Where are you on Dennis Schrooter? Dennis Schroeder and Russ on the same team. I'm in. I don't know why. The whole Thunder at the 3-seat could come back to look really bad for us, just given the injuries and, you know, the random players like Dennis Schroeder. But I think he needed a change of scenery. And he'll be a nice, I don't want to say foil to Russ because they both kind of have that same fire.

kind of vibe about them, but I think it'll be really, like, a lot more helpful than people think. But I think it goes back to what Haley said, like the chemistry between Russ and Paul George, specifically Paul George, I think he's going to have a big year. Like, I was toying around with the idea of maybe even, like, saying he could be a dark MVP a dark horse MVP candidate. Oh, I don't think of you. I said toying around with the idea. I'm not saying that that's a thing that's going to happen, but like if the odds are good,

why not? I'm just saying, I think he's going to have a big year. and I think that's why I have the thunder. I don't think Schroeder's going to be an issue at all, and I'll tell you why. Because Russ is going to appreciate him because he has not had someone to back him up like that in such a long time. Does Russ want people backing him up though?

Like, if it was up to him, he'd go 48. Yeah, but it's not up to him. It's up to his body and he knows he can't do it. And so the only reason I think he stays in the game that long is because he's so competitive and he knows exactly what's going to happen when he comes out. And the reverse is true too. Schroeder knows he's not going to become the starting point guard on the Thunder.

He knows that in his mind. Yeah, he's not delusional. And so he knows he's going to be a backup. Yeah. I would like to see those. And on a winning team. I just want to see those guys interact as the season goes along. Where are we now?

Four? Are we at four? Four. We're at four. All right. Go ahead for four. Who do you have for four? I have a jazz because I wanted to put them lower, if I'm being honest with you.

Because I think they're going to regress a little bit. I do want you to be honest with me. Always. Why did you decide not to put it? them lower. They're just such a good defensive team. There's going to be so good defensively with Rudy Gourriere, like provided he does, he stays healthy. I think you're going to be so good defensively that it's going to make up for any kind of setback that somebody like Donovan Mitchell has. He's going to lead the team now for sure. Like I know that at the start of last season,

it was very much like, okay, so is this Donovan Mitchell's team now? And it took a while for it to become that. Now it's his team. And defenses are going to go out to stop him. That's going to change things, I think. But I think that how good they are defensively is going to make up for that. I also have the jazz fourth. And Haley's doing a shocked face to both of us. Wow. You have them too. Yeah. Oh, I thought you were making fun. Okay, that's great. So for the same

reasons that Palo just outlined, look, they were a surprising team last year, but after Gobert came back, because there was that period there at the beginning of the season where they were not playing well at all. And then Gobert came back for the second time, and they just got super hot. The defense was fantastic.

Donovan Mitchell, call him Don. Love him here at He-check. He just like he took off. No, he wasn't rookie of the year. The rookie of the year resides in Philadelphia, as we all know, but he was very, very close. And super talented. Sky's the limit for that kid. I love this team.

Plus, they got my guy, Ricky Rubio, called Rick. Rick Rubio. I mean, still out there looking very handsome and ready to play basketball. I love this team. Like, I think sometimes we forget about the jazz because they play in Utah. And everything about this team I'm there for, I'm going, they're going to be really high on my league pass watching. I think it's crazy you all pick them Because I thought that that was

That was gonna be the device phone But then again Venus is in retrograde I think that's what's going Do five I have the Lakers at five I also have Lakers at five What? Yeah Okay

I think that's a sweet spot for them I know it's just like words are so in sync I guess We already talked about the Lakers So I'll give you my five the thunder I have them below the jazz Just because the jazz are healthy and ready to rock I have the below the Lakers Because I check the rosters

they don't have LeBron. So I think that the Thunder are going to be good. I do. But let's see what Russ looks like when he gets back. I can't believe you have the thunder under the jazz. I mean, they were right there in lockstep last season, right? I mean, they finished with the exact same record. And they played each other in the playoffs.

And I think that they're pretty much like very close to each other. The other thing about these teams is that I think we're going to get the same thing we had last season where like three through 11. Yeah. That 10 are all bunched up. Yes. Okay. Let's go to number six where we'll get some new teams. I have Denver there.

You have Denver at six. Wow. I know. I know. Make the case for Denver because I don't think this is wild. The Nuggets almost made the playoffs last season. They've been sort of sniffing around the Western Conference playoff picture for a while. Yokic looks like he's ready to take that next step.

What do you like about them? And Jamal Murray and Gary Harris are only going to get better. Gary Harris. Will Barton way slept on. And Paul Mosef is healthy this year. This is the case for the Nuggets. And it is game 82 when they lost to the wolves. both of those teams right now have not changed, right?

Now, Butler might get traded very soon and they could change a lot. But the nuggets have gone up significantly in expectations, and the wolves have gone down. And I think it's because we all know that the young nuggets are only going to get better. Yolkic looks amazing. And Paul Millsaps healthy. Right. That's the thing. That's the only thing that I would say has changed, right?

And they have a bench. They're hypothetically going to get a healthy Palm Millsap. which should help. In theory, yes. He's also getting up there in age. He had a really bad season last year when he was on the court. I like Paul Milsap in theory. I just wonder how much of Paul Milsap is left. I like the Nuggets. I have them a little bit lower. Real quick about the Nuggets, you did a Michael Porter story. And I just wanted to, one, you should go read the Michael Porter story because it's good. It's a quick Q&A with Michael Porter. Two, my favorite part of the Michael Porter's story, and I texted Palo about this, was Palo goes, hey, not to spoil the story,

but he goes, hey, what do you like about Denver? And Michael Porter's answer was, the weather? And then it snowed this weekend? And I'm like, Michael Porter, are you aware of geography or where you are? Like, it's nice there. It's very nice there. I love Denver. It is not snowing for roughly four days a year.

Okay. That's like, saying the weather is the same as like, well, is he cute? Um, he's nice. He's got a nice personality. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Wow, Michael Borginer hates Denver. You heard it here first.

Wow. What a take? Breaking news on the heat check podcast. Who do you have at six? I have the New Orleans Pelicans. Wow. Okay, so we've mixed it up a little bit here. I trust Anthony Davis and I think that's what it comes down to with this.

Also, actually, no, you know what? I trust Anthony Davis and I trust Drew Holiday. He's under the radar a little bit still, but it's valuable. I think they're just going to be good. They're going to run a lot. They're going to use AD as more of a, yeah, that's kind of a stretch big as opposed to the first half of a lot. season where they have to use him and buggy together and kind of work with that kind of lineup.

I think Meritich is perfect to pair alongside Davis and I think Julius Randall as the other big in their rotation, it gives him a great depth. The one thing I'm worried about is Alfred Payton coming in for Rondo. I think Rondo was super valuable for them. But as a whole, I think

they're just going to take another step forward, as well AD, and his kind of, his leap will key their success. And that's why I have them there. I like the Pelicans. I have them in the playoffs. I have them lower. The reason why I have them lower is because I think three of their best guys, I just don't understand how you play them on the court at the same time. There's going to be really crucial moments,

and you're going to look around and go, okay, well, AD obviously isn't coming out of the game. Now, how do you play Julius Randall and Mertich with him? Like, how does that work? I don't understand a scenario where you're going to have those three guys on the floor. And if you do, what does that mean for spacing? Like, I don't know. It just seems like a big jumble. Uh-huh.

Because Mertich can shoot. Yeah. Julius Randall, he's a great passer and rebounder, and he can bring the ball up and super energy. And I love a lot of things about his game. I just don't know about that fit. So I have them a little bit lower. I have at number six. As fans of the He-check podcast can probably predict, the Portland Trailblazers at number six.

Frankly, I feel better about having them six. They finished third last year. They were one of the surprises of the Western Conference and the NBA writ large. They won 49 games last year. Nothing's really changed in Portland. I still think they're going to be good. I just have them slightly lower than that Jazz Thunder. And you know what?

Jazz Thunder Blazers, throw them in a hat, pick one out. I'm cool with it. I'm ready for the Zach Collins era. They are too, apparently. They're very high on Zach Collins. We'll see what they get out of them. At seven, I've got the nuggets. We already talked about the nuggets.

I have the Blazers there. You have the Blazers. I have the Blazers. You have the Blazers. All right. And at eight, what do we have? That's why I have the Pelicans. You have the Pelicans at eight.

I have your Los Angeles Clippers. You've got the Clippers in the playoffs. I feel like you're pandering to Isaac So that you can come back on the program Yep, wanted to mix it up a little bit I think the clippers are So wait, who do you have missing out of that group then? You have the nuggets on the outside?

The nuggets on the outside again. Yeah, I just don't know why I don't There's something about the team that I can't fully buy into And I know that goes against the hipster NBA culture Of not buying into Nicola Yokic But I just think... Wait, you don't buy into him specifically? You don't buy into the nuggets?

No, no, no, I think he's great. Is he a little overrated in my mind? maybe, you know, if he doesn't take another leap this year. He doesn't start with defense. Yeah, exactly. Defense is the thing that I'm more supportive about. So I think the Clippers are just like good. They're a professional team.

They're a professional team. They have quite a bit of depth. They obviously like SGA. He's going to be an interesting addition for them. I love Lou Will and Avery Bradley should be able to play some defense. Tobias Harris, I think, I look at this team and I go, they have a lot of pieces that can be useful pieces that would provide depth. They would have the deepest bench. in the NBA if they only had a starting lineup.

If they only had a star, right. Is Tobias Harris your best player? Can he be your best player? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. No, he cannot be your best player. I think this is the right take. No, he can't be your best player.

But he doesn't need to be in this context is what I'm saying. Well, who is then? No, no, no. You don't need to have a best player. You can be the Hawks and the 2015 Hawks and win the 8th and get the H-Seed with this team. You have Doc Rivers, who's a pretty good coach last time I heard. And I don't know, I just think they're deep there. They're not going to try to do too much.

They're not going to try to be something they're not. They're deep, but... They're good enough in the West to get the ASEED. They're deep, but they have nothing in the top. Look, I think the Clippers are going to be that, like, scrappy, you know, Indiana West team only without Al-a-Dipo, right? Like, exactly what we said. The Cuppers are a team you take the over-on, but you don't put them in the playoffs. Sorry, Isaac.

Wow. Tough call. Tough way to start. Make sure to read these two. On the ringer.com, you did a Josh Hart. piece, Palauugetti, that was very fun and interesting and you were working on for a very long time. And Haley O'Shaughnessy, on the road to do a Hassan Whiteside story. I mean, like really out here, like covering the NBA, exciting. I definitely pitched it not to go to Miami. That is not

what I had in mine. They want to be on the beach. They want to get on a tan. It was awful. You know what I really do like? Denver, because the weather. Denver because of the weather. It brings it full circle. That was an excellent callback. make sure to read these two on the ringer.com. They'll also be a big part of NBA Palo and Haley. Thank you. Thank you to Palo and Haley. Always love talking to them about Drake and random stuff.

And now we're going to bring in Kevin Clark for the first time ever on the Heat Check podcast, Riley McAtee, and Isaac will join as well. All right, joining me in the studio right now, staff writer, Kevin Clark, associate editor, Riley McAtee. Kevin, I don't think you've never been on heat check before, right? I've been on a number of NBA pods. I don't know which. But not this specific one. I don't know under which umbrella they fall. You and I have done things together before, but I don't think we've ever talked basketball

together. And Riley and I have talked basketball. And Isaac and I have talked basketball. But I didn't tell you guys why you're all here together right now. What we did at the beginning of the podcast was we previewed the Western Conference and Eastern Conference playoff picture. And then I started thinking about the teams that probably aren't going to make the playoffs. And then I started thinking about the representatives here.

at the Ringer, who are avatars for teams that are, let's say, not so good. Sure. Generally, fandom. I've been trotted out quite a bit in this role. But just generally fandom that is difficult. Riley, you are a Kings fan. Yep. And Kevin, you are a Magic fan.

I am. And Isaac Lee is a long-suffering Clippers fan. Now, we just had, Palo just said, made the case for them making the playoffs, but I'm talking about this more from like an existential overarching position. and what it's like to be fans of these teams. So we're going to play a little game called NBA Sadface. And I'm going to ask you guys questions and then determine at the end which of you

has the biggest NBA sad face. Oh, wow. That's why you're here. It's going to be a fan. It's exciting, isn't it? Yeah. All right, so here we go. So we'll start it off.

Kevin, we'll start with you. Yeah. When is the last time you felt joy? Okay, so this is a loaded question about basketball or life. I mean, really take it however you want it, but try to sprinkle a little bit. basketball. We're going to separate this. I'm a fairly, I'm extremely happy person with many joys in my life. From a basketball perspective, great question. So I would say that last time I was just out of my shoes happy about basketball was when we went to Los Angeles after the Dwight trade and beat the Lakers, which was 2012, something like that.

Sure. I'm bad with history. We just added nowhere, put together a nice shooting performance, and we beat the Lakers. And that's, and that's, and that's, we'd beat the Lakers. And that. That was really maybe the last time I was just fired up. Actually, the other time, it was a game I was at, it was another Rockets game with Dwight because it was really the only games we got up for for a couple of years. And Dwight, I think, fell down on the final possession. Sure. Yeah, that happens. Alfred Payton stole the ball from when we won the game.

So I think those were the two games where I was just like, holy crap. It's great to be a magic fan. We had the big run. We had the big run last November where we were at the best. We briefly became the Golden State Warriors for three weeks, and Eric Gordon was just draining. That's right. I forgot about that. You guys were actually making shots. We were the best shooting team in the league.

And oddly enough, I was looking at the preseason stats, and we were 27th in three-point shooting behind the Shanghai Sharks. Oh, okay. So that's not as good. They don't play in the NBA as it turns out. I recommend, by the way, the advanced stats page on NBA.com because it has all the random international teams that have played so you can see just where they fall. Yeah, Maccabee Haifa from Israel ahead of the magic and shooting. Love the Maccabi Haifa. Riley, same question to you as a Kings fan. When was the last time you felt joy?

Mine's a little more recent. It was back when they did the most recent NBA draft lottery, and we moved up the number two. And for a brief moment, you thought Luca Donkatchez was coming here. I thought Donchitz was coming, or Eaton at the time. I mean, we, in our initial mock draft, put Donkich at one. And so it was like, all right, it didn't matter, though. I felt like we were going to get a generational prospect to finally put the pieces together.

Either way. It was going to be it. So ping pong balls. Ping pong balls was the last time you felt happy. Yeah, I mean, well, when you put it that way. I thought it was going to be a little more dramatic and exciting than ping pong balls. How do you feel about Bagley right now?

You know, I want to give him a chance. I'm not super high on him in terms of his skill set and everything. You know, it's frustrating that the guys in our front office, guys like Flydivok and Pesia, had so much success with a style of basketball that used passing and people. movement and cutting. Yeah.

I was an amazing passer. Fly was an amazing passer. Weber was an amazing passer. I mean, they had Biggs who could move the basketball. And instead, now they're like, oh,

what about if we draft this guy who, you know, bugs and works in the post, like bangs around. It's, I will say because I have sometimes periodically a very sad life

where I'm watching too much preseason basketball. I've seen quite a few preseason Kings games and Deer and Faxes looked pretty good. I like Deeran Foxx. I think maybe all of a sudden he takes a step.

Well, keep your fingers crossed for him. Isaac Lee, same question to you. And I will say, Isaac took umbrage with even being, I told him what this segment was going to be. He was the only one who had prior knowledge. And he took umbrage with being included. I mean, I can't. I don't understand.

Like, I would like to note, first of all, that Kevin and Riley both are speaking in a very morose kind of down tone. I'm very happy with the Clippers. Yeah. They've been over 500 since 2011. There are, like, children who can walk and talk and form coherent thoughts who have never seen a losing clipper season. They have, like, a completely new organizational infrastructure.

They're not the joke of the league Clippers of the past. Like, I don't know why I'm included in this. I agree. I agree. Let me take a step back. I would kill them. The last, like, 10 years of Clippers basketball. I would say that it's odd that I'm included.

Because in my lifetime, the Magic made the finals twice. We have had that experience. We've won a finals game. Very few teams who've done that in the conference. context of the NBA. Not only two finals, but one finals. We've had generational talents, what, once a decade? I mean, if you can click... Shack and Dwight, yeah. Well, also, I would say, Trace McGrady and Penny. Penny. I mean, Grant Hill was completely derailed. Now Moamba. Yeah. Moamba, big Matt. Mobamba. No, and so I just think generally,

the magic of had it better than a lot of people maybe think because of the, because for some reason, Whenever they get bad, they get extremely bad. I understand that. But I would say that as far as my rooting interest, I've had a much better run than Isaac and Riley. I like that you... You heard it. I win.

I like you guys fighting on this one. I really like Isaac getting his backup, which is not at all a Clippers fandom thing to do. I mean, the Clippers having a chip on their shoulder. I don't believe it. It's incredibly defensive. Isaac, when was the last time you felt joy? I would say before the Blake trade,

I actually had hope for that season. I really thought they were going to be good. I had just actually started working here at the ringer, and then Blake got traded. So that's probably the last time I felt joy. It was all downhill after that one. All right. I'll start with Isaac this time.

When you think of the Clippers, you think of. Disappointment. See? See, your grandfathered in on this one. I am grandfathered in this one. I started really following basketball and the Clippers during that Elton brand Chris Cayman era. Obviously, Sam Cassell was in that as well.

But, like, they won some games. So that's when I got in. And then there was a dip of like two years of mediocrity to being very, very bad. And Blake came into my life. And then he immediately gets hurt and doesn't play for an entire year. So there's disappointment there. And then, you know, we see the Lakers trade for Chris Paul disappointment there because we don't want the Lakers getting another star. And then we get Chris Paul.

And then what happens is four straight years of disappointing playoff. losses, like getting swept by the spurs in the second round in that first year. And disappointment has basically shaped the clippers. Like, we get hope for a little bit and then we get disappointed. That feels right to me. I would have said it when I think of the clippers, I think of the Lakers, because that's the only team in L.A., but that's good enough. Disappointment's good.

Riley, what about for Sacramento? The first thing I think of, I think it's home in, like, my childhood. I know that that's a really lame, sappy answer for this pod. What is this ladybird? Well, it's Sacramento is a one-teen town. And I never picked up the Raiders and the Niners or any of the San Francisco Bay Area teams. So really, all I had when I was like eight were the kings. And it'll always be that way.

This is the only team I rude for when I was a kid. He's a Sacramento exceptional. Good for her. This is it. It doesn't matter how much they disappoint me. I was going to make fun of you, but I like how hard you ride for your hometown. I think of Vladi sitting in front of that whiteboard, which is fucking amazing. I try to not think about that.

What do you think about the magic? It's a great question. I probably default to, too. It's strange to me because I went to all the Shaq and Petty games, but I was very young. And so you don't remember large swats. You remember the great moments. I actually identify most with the 2009. How young were you?

How young are you now? So when Shaq was drafted, I was five. Okay. I'm not going to do the math in my head because it'll probably make my head explode. Sure. And so I was pretty young. Sure. I mean, I went to the finals.

Do you remember those games? Sure. I went to the finals. I certainly remember those games. Yeah. The 95 one. I remember, you know, Nick Anderson's doing the ball. ball from Michael Jordan, claiming goat status for Michael Jordan by still in the ball from him.

But it wasn't like I remember everything. So the 2009 finals was in my college wheelhouse. It was all, you know, it was friends. It was all that stuff. So when I think of the magic, I think of that. If you had to pick a lineup, it would be that sort of, you know, even though Jamir didn't start in the finals, it would be Jamir, Dwight, Hito Turkle, or Richard Lewis. Those are the guys I think of what I think of the magic. I also think of a whiteboard when I think of the magic. Like the double whiteboard disaster? Really amazing.

Like, it's bad enough for Henigan to have done it. But then for Vladdy to like repeat the mistake, like, who's taking that picture and how that have a job? Who had the worst whiteboard? I think it was the magic. Because they actually put prospects on the board before they had to go after those guys. It didn't matter because everyone knew they were going to get fired. All right.

All right. Another question for you guys. I want you, I'm going to give you something to respond to. Okay. year. Congratulations, Shelvin Mack, 3.9 assists per game as their assist leader. Very excited about it. Put it on social media to say so. Well, I actually reacted to it in real time at putting the Jim Halpert staring at the camera face. Yeah. That's about right. That was about right. I mean, I just don't know what you can do.

I mean, it's a tough position the social people are put in. I don't know those guys. I used to know one of the guys who did it. But the guys who do it now, I don't know what you do to celebrate the magic. And the tone of the internet is so celebratory for everything that I feel like sometimes the NBA team is just like, whatever, we'll just celebrate Sheldman Mac. And then NBA Twitter is like, no, we're not going to do this. Yeah. NBA Twitter is pretty soft on almost everything. Well, they can also be a little crazy.

Depends on what fan base you're talking about. Respond to Matt James's slack. He put it in Slack recently in the NBA, and you took Umbrage with it so you could just do the reprisal here during the preseason. The jazz just broke 100 on the Kings. It's still the third quarter. The Kings are shooting 33% from the field and 15% from deep.

Dragging the Kings in the preseason. Whatever, it's preseason. I don't care. Call me when they're losing to the Jazz by 30 in the regular season, which will almost definitely happen. Very soon. So like Wednesday, right? I would not open up that invitation.

It'll happen in the regular season, but whatever. I mean, I don't know. From what I understand, both Dave Yeager and Deerun Fox got violently ill after that game, and they miss the next pre-season game. Sounds like they got by and like. I think the hotel workers in Utah like to, you know, make sure

they give their team. Wait. The Jazz and the Kings are actually playing on Wednesday. So we're going to call them on Wednesday. Oh, great. Revenge game. This is perfect. I want to say something.

I Googled King's Schedule and I got the LA Kings. I have a similar thing, but it's not that. It's that when I do Magic S-C-H, I assume it's going to autocorrect to Magic Schedule, so I just press enter. magic school bus every single time. Magic school boss.

No one ever Googles magic schedule. I can't even tell you how many times I've Googled Kings and then immediately had to Google Sacramento Kings and somehow Google the company that knows everything has not figured out that I'm from Sacramento and I'm a Sacramento Kings fan and do not care at all about hockey or the LA Kings in any way.

Yeah, no, the San Francisco Giants are the default giant schedule, which I always found strange. Yeah, that's a weird one. I don't have these issues, but I like hearing about yours. Isaac, here's one that I want you to respond to. The boss man, Bill Simmons, tweeted this out. Jimmy Butler says he only cares about winning, and yet he originally requested a trade to the Clippers, Knicks or Nets.

This whole thing is hilarious. The obvious implication being the Clippers don't win. I mean, factually, the boss man is not incorrect. However, I would like to say that the grouping of the Knicks and Nets probably brings the average winningness of it down. I will say if Jimmy Butler does go to the Clippers, that's a winning team. That's at least a playoff team. I would take the rest of the Clippers roster than the rest of the Minnesota roster.

We just talked about this. They have a deeper roster than basically any team in the league. Granted, there's an actual starting lineup. Kevin Clark is in here literally shaking his head at you. Oh, no, it's not about that. Oh, it's not that. Well, it could have been about that. I think you're right, Isaac, that if they got Jimmy, he'd immediately be the best player on the team, and then they have a pretty deep team.

But I just thought it was great that Bill through the clippers in with the Knicks and Nets. It was just, it was perfect for our purposes. I mean, Jimmy did. He grouped them together as the teams he wanted to go. He obviously wanted to go to Big City. That was his leverage. This was the NFL saying they're going to move a team to Los Angeles for every team

that didn't build like a new stadium and whatever. Kevin Clark, why are you shaking your head? I'm looking at Josh Robbins' Twitter feed. This is the Magic Beat Writer. Now for the Athletic. And I'm just, I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything the last couple days. It turns out it's the exact same as it's been for the past five years. No one's hitting shots.

So the answer is I didn't miss anything. And I was just looking at it and I was just getting low-grade PTSD. That's- From a shot chart. That's perfect. Give me one reason why you're optimistic for your team this year. Okay, so I actually have a ready-made answer for this. And it's that there are prospects.

For the first time, there are prospects that I think we can build around. And those prospects are Mobamba and Jonathan Isaac. Aaron Gordon is what he is. He's not going to be the best team on a finals team. never going to happen. Are those two guys? I don't know, but I do know that if those guys can develop the way we think they can, that they can be a playoff team in, I don't know, three years.

And then, you know, our cap space is not going to be terrible in a couple of years. I just saw a write-up. I think it was Danny LaRue wrote about, you know, they can be the one team to offer Terry Rozier money that they want. I don't know. And then in 2020, what? No, no, like getting excited about the cap space for Tara Rozier is just perfect magic.

It's not perfect, Matt. We don't do that shit. We just draft a terrible player who can't shoot. I like Terry Rozier just fine. I think it's going to be good. I'm crossing my fingers for you. Riley, same question.

One reason why you're optimistic. Harry Giles. I'm such a believer in him. He can pass. He's shown off his passing in preseason. There are big man situations muddled, though. The big man situation is muddled, but that's the thing.

I think that he's going to rise up and show that he's the real deal. Yeah. Are you more optimistic about him or bagley? Oh, Giles. It's not how close. I think Jiles is going to be the rookie of the year. Like, just watching him. Wow.

So smooth. He's so good. I really, really like him. I mean, he's looked good in the preseason. My problem, though, is when you think about rookies of the year in terms of candidates, right? Like, generally, they're going to put out-sized numbers. I think Aiton's got an easier path to outsized numbers. Or they control the narrative.

And I think Donkich has a better chance to control the narrative. Giles, on top of that, he's got to get the middle. minutes and those rotations are going to be squarely, I think. I mean, I think Jowles would have the narrative just because he's coming back from so many injuries. It's true about the minutes. He might not get the minutes. But that's fine.

Maybe he doesn't win rookie of the year. I think he'll be really good. I'm hopeful for you. I would like you to have nice things. Isaac Lee, give us a reason why you're optimistic. Cap space. We have cap space this summer for two max slots. A lot of cap flexibility.

We did not have that basically since the Chris Paul trade. I know people are going to be like, why don't you just say, Shay Gilges Alexander, your seemingly prodigious rookie. I don't really like him. I didn't like him to draft. I watched him during preseason. I still have a lot of questions about him.

What don't you like about him? He still can't really shoot. He can only really drive right. He's also 180 pounds at 6'6. I would like for him to bulk up a little. But that's all rookies. I just think more important than the development of the young guys. We could get a star or two this summer.

We have the space. We are in Los Angeles. I'm saying the Royal Wii. Jimmy Butler saying he wants to go to the Clippers is probably a good sign. He did say those things. This is true. But it's a good sign that a star is showing interest. Kauai Leonard has been linked to the Clippers.

Jerry West is in some kind of advisory role for the Clippers. Like, last time I checked, the teams that he manages do really well. I'm really excited for the offseason more than this season. And as a... Classic Generation Z member just likes the thought of... He doesn't like the games. The thought of things... Like transactions.

I will say though, like during that process period where the Sixers were rebooting, the seasons were inverted, right? Like watching basketball was fine if you really like fucking Tony Roten and Alexi's Fed. However, the offseason when they were moving picks and clearing cap space and like, you know, making trades and like summer league shit. Like that was exciting. And now obviously it's back to being normal. But I understand that appeal. I understand the appeal of like the ancillary attendant. adjacent concerns.

Those are fun. All right, last one for you. I want to create a little competition here. Tell me why the Kings will be better than the Clippers. Oh my God. Do you want to reiterate your ludicrous take?

Tell me why the Kings will be better than the Clippers. I don't know if they're really going to be better than the Clippers. But I think we have guys in Giles and Fox and Buddy Heald and Boggian Bogdanovich who all have

large variants going into this season. They could get a lot. better than they were last season and you know potentially take the leap as everybody says and so that kind of gives us more like unknown going into the season in terms of we could just get a lot better very suddenly not that we're going to be a playoff team or something but i don't know if the clippers necessarily have guys who are suddenly could just become really good and so i think that there's a chance like it's like if the stars all the line maybe the kings will be like an okay team i love i love

seeing other franchises through your eyes. Yeah, through just like blind optimism, total vision. It's fantastic. Isaac, tell me why the clippers will be better than the magic. I mean, they will be. That's like, no question. I can't, I don't understand why this is even a question.

So angry that he's on this. He went 42 and 40 last year. But Magic won, like, what, 25 games or something? Like, I don't understand why this is even a conversation at this point. I'm sorry, a guy named Zach Lowe wrote the other the day that there's a universe to which the magic win

35 games, which tells, and all you need is a couple bad breaks for the clippers. Hair on fire for the magic. Tell me why the magic will be better than the Kings. I mean, that's not.

We just reversed roles. Now I'm Isaac and he's me. I don't even know why this is a question. We have Moamba. We have a healthy Jonathan Isaac. Sure. We have, for the first time,

a guy who's going to run plays, which we haven't done for six years, which is a really exciting upgrade. run plays, we'll get shooters open. Do stuff. That's important. Maybe run some defensive schemes. We've been just going for it.

I lost in there how you're going to be better than the Kings, but it sounds promising. It's a huge upgrade because we do things now. You do things. You didn't do things in the last six years. And that concludes NBA sad face. What I found out in doing this little experiment is that you guys have such contempt for each other, and I love it. I like, why are any of you?

To be clear, that's not a basketball thing. It's just a personal. Just like a natural default position for. you. I'm declaring all of you guys winners or losers, depending on your perspective of NBA's sad face. You've been lumped together and I think it's wonderful. We brought you guys together. I want to thank Kevin Clark

and Riley McAtee for joining us. I also want to thank Palo Getti and Haleo Shonnessy for being on earlier as well as Jason Concepcion. I want to remind all of you guys that NBA Paloza is on Tuesday. We've got all kinds of stuff all day long. You don't want to miss it. NBA show is back weekly now. Please remember to rate

and review us on Apple. We've got heat check every Monday. The mismatch. to say on alternate Wednesdays. We've got group chat on Thursdays and still TBD Friday show. That's it for us, gang. Heat Check will be back next Monday. Thanks for listening.