The Ringer NBA Show - The Wembageddon Is Upon Us | Group Chat

Episode Date: March 3, 2024

Justin and Wos are joined by J. Kyle Mann to talk all things Victor Wembanyama. They discuss his development both offensively and defensively, his rivalry with Chet Holmgren, and how the Spurs should build around him (5:13). They also get into some college prospects as we begin tournament season (55:10). Hosts: Justin Verrier and Wosny Lambre Guest: J. Kyle Mann Producers: Carlos Chiriboga and Tucker Tashjian Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In a world where coaches are still the main characters, the players are now legally chasing the ultimate bag, and the game of basketball is always the top priority. There is only one brand you can trust to help you wade through all the madness. Hey, I'm Tate Frazier from One Shiny Podcast, and you can join me twice a week as we navigate the always entertaining world of college basketball. Every Monday, the ringer's comment helps me make sense of the biggest stories from the weekend, and on Fridays we talk to our many friends of the program. locked in on the best postseason in sports. Make sure you follow One Shining Podcasts on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Barrier and joining me as always Big Was. No Rob Mahoney this week, but we have our friend, our frequent guests, we can say that now. Jay Kyle, man. What's up, Kyle? After all the shit talking you did in Indianapolis,

he just, was why he invited me to that show is to just to put on a humiliating, Yeah, he was like, I'm going to make an example out of Kyle in front of his Midwest brethren. And it worked. I came anyway, okay? Yeah. It didn't work.

I just want to make it clear. That's not why I'm here. Justin didn't win. No, Kyle came because he heard we were talking about Wembe. We hit the siren and he's like, I'm there. He was texting me at like six in the morning. He's like, I've got a stat for you guys. Yeah.

That's sort of how I went down. Yeah, it's something like that. You need somebody to talk Wemby. You look around and you say, who doesn't have a life and watches Wemby all the time? It's me, you know? So obviously, I'm here to answer the bell to help, however, however necessary for Ringer group chat.

Right. So Kyle is our rookie expert. He does the rookie rankings on the ringer.com. Go check those out. But Waz, you are literally broadcasting live from Tejas. I am. Is Wembe just like coursing,

like is the buzz just going around you as you? as you sit there? I don't know if you've ever been to Austin, but the buzz around Austin is not emanating from, it doesn't derive from basketball pleasure. I'll tell you that much. There's some other things buzzing these people here in Austin. And so, no, I don't think they've got Wembe Fever,

but, you know, I've enjoyed my stay here. Shouts to Ani and David Grisholm on their wedding was a beautiful ceremony out here in this city. It's the first time I ever hung out here. It was really nice. So shouts to Texas, shouts to the new couple. Saw you in a cowboy hat.

I messaged you on the Instagram. I wanted to hear a pod live from that event. You really are going all in on the experience. I was happy to see it. So they did a cool thing with their wedding in the sense that they had activities planned every single day. and if those of us who got here on Thursday, like I did, they planned for us to go to a honky talk and take an actual class, a two-step class, right?

Wow. You know, it's like a beginners-level class because the Texas two-step has many fundamentals to it, but we learned one of the fundamentals at the class. And yeah, this thing went down at a genuine honky-talk, like, for real. And the hat wasn't mine. It was my lady's hat. She's a Beyonce stand. So now all of these women are fake country music fans.

So she's, she's cosplaying a cowgirl the entire freaking trip. It's cultural appropriation on a level that I feel uncomfortable with, quite frankly, y'all. It's a no belt buckle coming back with you. No, no, I didn't get a big old belt buckle or any boots or anything like that. No bolo ties. although I might incorporate bolot ties into my actual wardrobe, just generally speaking. But that's the one thing I'm leaving with. There's no U-Tep two-step classes out there, Tim Hardaway, making some money.

That seems like that could work. Would work for me. I was going to ask, like, you're southern adjacent, I guess. You're not deep south. You're just like regular south, I would say. Do you have any of this attire? No, not really. Leather shoes don't really work for me.

I have, like, warm feet. You know, I can't really. I've tried. I have warm appendages. So the leather goods with me last like a few days and then they have to be thrown out. I've actually tried to wear some leather things, moccasins. Megan was like, did you like, what's, what is going on? And I would look down and I was like, all right, I'll throw them away.

Like it just, it doesn't work. But no, no, I'm, there's cowboy culture here, but nobody really claims us here in Kentucky. That's what I always say. We're not Midwest. We're not South. But I'd say we're more South than anything, honestly. Well, I don't know how to transition off of hot leather footwear, but let's go. Why would you?

Yeah. So I would say the NBA conversation at large is a bit of buzz after the game against Chet the other night here. I think for a lot of people, this was just a coming out party of sorts for the rookie of the year, perhaps, but also just that Wembe probably is that guy, the guy that I think we'd all heard about dating back to last year's drafting before. that. Kyle, for you, did this game, this most recent game on Thursday where they beat the Thunder, did that do anything for you? Or have you been in this place with Wembe for a good

while now? Because you're deep in it in the way that Waz and I are not. I mean, I was sectioned some people that watch rookies for other sites. You know, in the industry, you know, industry talk kind of stuff. Talking shop.

And talking to you, and I was section you too. I was, I guess they're the level of the people who are sort of like, if you're watching it like on a granular level, you're going to notice it faster, like, you know, frame by frame, then most people don't have time to just watch rookies all the time and BDAL. It's kind of like college basketball. A big, a big yada yada event has to get them, you know, to get off the interstate and pay more attention. What I'm, what I'm mean to say is that like, he started to really, really go wild at basically at the, at the start of the year.

In our last rookie update, I talked about some of the tweaks that they made. Of course, you know, it's one of those things where, like, do they want credit for tweaks that they, for positions that they put themselves into in the first place? I don't know that anybody should be going wild, you know, the spurs for a while were unwatchable. I don't know if you all like, there was that initial thrust of like, holy God, wimby is this, like, we've never seen this. And then you could kind of see the, I don't know, have you all ever seen that sketch where Fred Armisen talks about like watching your friend's blues band? and you watch his facial expression, go from excitement to like, oh God. That's kind of what it was like.

Like in the initial part of it, you're like, this is really, really hard to watch, the Spurs were. So then they go and they make the tweak to get Jeremy Sohan off ball. And then they take Zach Collins, who like hypothetically had been shooting the ball well up until this point.

I could see what they were thinking. But he had been shooting the ball well. So it was like you had a non-shooting, non-scoring guy facilitating. You had a guy clogging up the middle next to Wimby. you take those two things out of it, which they did, to my point at the beginning of the year, and you had all this space. So immediately you see Wimby with like driving lanes to the basket. You see him just able to get on and off the ball easier. That's been a revelation we can talk about.

But he's really, I think last night was kind of a culminating moment where we're starting to see like sort of some of the things that are going to project what his ceiling are, which that's a whole conversation we can have. It's a crazy conversation. But to answer your question, yeah, I mean, it's been going on for a little bit. I understand that people maybe didn't see it immediately, but he's been doing some crazy stuff for probably a couple months now, honestly. They did it to themselves, I think, is the thing, Waz. That's what hurts the worst, right, Justin? Yeah, exactly.

It's just like if Wembe wasn't front and center, it's the Spurs's fault, right, Waz? Yeah, I think that was kind of our first complaint, me personally. And I think on the show, too, was just as I did at one, And because Wembe has such a winning disposition to begin with, he didn't want to come in and just bogart every single possession and sort of just take over everything immediately. He was deferring and playing off of his teammates and picking his spots. And in a way that, you know, it was admirable, right? Like a young guy coming into the league, he doesn't want to be like, yo, give me the rock and get the hell out of the way.

unfortunately for him, his teammates were not capable of the task that was at hand, right? And so as the years progressing, of course, like Kyle says, when they're starting NBA lineups that make sense, you know, on paper in terms of spacing, in terms of playmaking and shot creation, and who should be getting the ball, a lion's share of the time, they've made those adjustments. But, you know, again, I took that as, man, this kid really wants to come in and do the right thing, play the right way, even if it was kind of to a detriment, to the detriment of his team. But, yeah, ever since the clock has turned to 2024, and as you guys know, I wasn't exactly, I didn't jump on the Wemby bandwagon with both feet, right? And so I'm made aware of the progress on the internet, believe me. I get the game logs. Oh, this is the last 10 games. You're getting harassed?

Doing it in 28 minutes and yada, yada, yada. So, yeah, I've been noticing that individually, the uptick has been insane. This is probably a more typical rookie experience, too. Like, Chet is the outlier to be doing what he's doing on one of the best teams in the NBA. Like, I can't even think about not only just being on a good team, but having, like, powering the success of that as like the two, third most important player on that team. I would say the game against the spurs the other night between the Spurs and the Thunder was kind of like a Heisman moment situation, which thankfully Rob isn't here, so I don't have to explain this to you guys. But it's just those things that we're going to look back as we're

showing the clips over his rookie season. As we're talking about rookie of the year, we're going to say like, oh, the five by five game. That was incredible. The time that they beat the Thunder pretty handedly with and Wembe just kind of took it to chat over and over again. That stuff is going to stand out. And so on the one hand, I think the Spurs. haven't done themselves any like favors by basically diminishing Wembe from the public eye. On the other hand, you know, this is, he's able to rise above that. I think the question I came away from that game, though, Kyle, was like, so what is the difference other than his teammates? Are you seeing any like small progress? Are you seeing

nuance start to come out? Like, what's jumping out to you? I think that he's, well, speaking of what you were talking about with, you know, the Spurs and the way that they've played this out, like this being a rookie arc, I think we're, I wonder sometimes if we're making the mistake of assuming that they give a shit at all about, like, his, like, rookie of the year, Pat, you know, because they have so many things to figure out, they probably were like, we know how good Victor is. They probably knew internally, you know, you can watch him work out. There's, like, videos. People have snuck of them, like, doing their kind of player workouts with Pop and him and Tim Duncan. but it makes you think, like, did they just kind of assume they knew what Victor was?

And that experiment in the beginning of the season was like, yeah, it might be a little ugly. But we're trying to kind of also audition some of these guys for the certain types of roles that they're going to need because they had drafted those dudes of Kelden and Vassell and Tray, you know, and Tray Jones and then Sohan and accumulated all those parts, not knowing that they were going to get Victor. They probably saw him on the horizon and thought that's a possibility. But I'm just saying, I'm just saying that like, they didn't know, huh? I'm just saying that like they they probably are like, okay, well, now we're shifting into a different mode now of like trying to audition some of these dudes. Like, Kelden, you know, Kelton came out like, what, 2019. So they've had him for a little bit. Moving forward, the conversation about who's going to play with him, I think is a whole other thing.

But that's not speaking to your question. But like, I think the big thing is that like you've seen him. I've definitely noticed like in the mid post him like figuring out how to handle his body, how to, how. The, like, waste, I've seen him clean up a lot. You know, this is a funny touch point, too, because we had a conversation about Wimby at Summer League. You remember where we were like, well, he's doing a lot of this, like, settling over the top, mid-range kind of stuff.

You've seen his priority of, like, all right, the mid-range jumper, the shooting over the top. I've seen it kind of dial into a more efficient sort of hierarchy of the way he makes decisions, you know? Like, he's very, very good. Early in the season, you saw guys bother his dribble when he take those mid-post dribbles. he's gotten really smart about that. You can see him start to understand that, like, he can be really patient,

A, because he can hold the ball up really high. No one's going to go get it without fouling him. So he's like, I can be very judicious with these dribbles. And you're seeing him like, you're seeing him just like create open looks by barely doing anything, which is crazy. He doesn't even really have to be that aggressive with his own offense, but the drives for game are really up.

I noted that in our rookie rankings thing, that he's just, he's really demonstrated that he's probably more ahead of schedule and able to take contact than I think we gave him credit for early in the season. Yeah, the thing that jumps out to me the most is the thing that I think we expected, which is just the physical marvel that he is.

And on the one hand, we prepared ourselves for it, we braced ourselves for it, but to see him still do things, just standing, not even jumping, and picking balls over the top of big wings like Jalen Williams and doing it with ease.

and those guys just looking like kindergartners will never get old to me. We're now like three quarters of the way through the season was, and it still feels like he's an alien out there, and we're still like kind of adjusting to what we're seeing there. Like when you watch Wembe,

is that still the thing that jumps out to you? To me, the thing that jumps out is how much he's affecting the manner with which people are attacking him already. Like as a rookie, you know, NBA vets, are not supposed to be calibrating in real time what they need to be doing against you

in your picking roll coverage or like, oh, snap, he's coming outside. Like, that surprises me a lot, even with the size, because generally these guys get lost, right, in the shuffle of trying to figure out the right positions to be in against NBA offenses.

But, you know, he's so physically gifted, he probably doesn't have to be in the perfect position every single time. right to to affect the play so that that surprised me the most and Kyle mentioned the drives because I think big man drives are so hard and oftentimes they go so wayward like when we think about you know especially the guys that can shoot it or or who defense is treated starts to shoot it I think about poor Zengis very early on in his career when he would put it on the deck it was just a complete disaster right Carl Towns sometimes even

now when he's forced to put it on the deck, it feels like I'm watching a sixth grader dribble it sometimes when he's putting it on the deck, right? Guys, like obviously, Yokic has kind of mastered everything. So he has a great drive game. And Bede has gotten much better on his drive game. But Wembe's big man drive game has been interesting to watch that he's already got some level of adeptness at it. Obviously, he's not perfect yet, but that's the thing.

guys are going to close out on you. They're going to put smaller people on Wembe, particularly when he's on the perimeter to bother him, bother his dribble. So that's going to have to become a major component of how he attacks defenses. And that he's already doing that in a pretty competent fashion.

It's kind of crazy. I'm glad you said that about the big man body types and that you mentioned Porzenga's because I was thinking about this this morning. I would just throw this to you all for food for thought. Like I think his like his purpose, portion of like where his waist is, I think plays a big part in like why he's able to play the way he does. Because if you watch Porzingis, I feel like his, his waist is lower. So his torso is longer.

So it's harder for him to get as low. If you look at like the way, if you wonder like why Yannis is able to or Yon, it's a certain body type that sort of is present in every like size class as you go down. Like Shea, I think has this too, where if your waist is at the right height, you can get lower with the ball. Like, you were mentioned in Portzingis being like disastrous off the dribble. He's so long. His center of gravity is too freaking high. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's and like if you watch Wimby, he gets so low with it. Like where, and I mentioned this in the, in the rookie rankings last time, I think the thing that maybe was underestimated was just his balance. Like he's able to keep his balance and still sort of carve out. You mean to tell me all that one leg and stuff he's doing and

warmups is actually working? He's, I, yeah, he's being. taken care of like it's yeah justifiably so and and i mean just his uh his awareness of his body you know and you're just watching him sort of start to figure out like when he was playing with like met's 92 he's doing a lot of face up dancing like doing the one two three kind of like getting to his dribble pull up stuff you saw in the NBA immediately and i think if if anybody that watch basketball knew like okay well that's probably not going to translate because these guards are so good at timing your dribble and getting up under you he's really really good at like taking a couple dribbles, turn him with his back. And I don't know if you'll have noticed this, the way he'll

be able to, he, I'm holding my arm out in his frame, he'll be able to hold his arm out of his body and keep the ball so low where you're not going to get to it. He's not out of control. But I think he just has more space to do those things with the driving space that he has now. And I think, you know, he's drawn fouls. I want to talk about his passing at some point, too. But yeah, yeah. The defense thing, too, I think we should talk about his, his like overall defensive impact because it's it's off the charts like do you remember ad as a rookie having haven't you saw that stuff up close justin do you did you with your eyes see i'm taking it over the show now did you remember him like impacting defensively to that extent like like avoiding him so i wasn't in new orleans

when ad he was a rookie yet but the trajectory of ad was as you probably know because you heard this story over and over again in kentucky was that he was the guard who had the growth spur and then Cal threw him in the post and told him to be a big man. And even in his rookie year, I felt it was a lot of him being a big, defensive big, first and foremost. And then the other sort of varied, versatile stuff kind of was born out of that after he already had a foundation of it. Honestly, it was a lot of Alvin Gentry kind of letting his freak flag fly again.

And it's partly because I think Alvin looked at things a little more differently than Monty Williams, believe it or not. But also, it was out of necessity. like people were doubling AD and tripling AD and they just didn't have the sort of outlet valves that they needed. And so you had to run AD off of curls. I've talked about that a lot. Like, yeah, he was just spotting up for midrange. The difference with Victor is like, you're, you're kind of talking about it there. It's like his movements are almost balletic. And it almost speaks to the preparation he had going into this. It just seems like he, he moves softly in a way that

like a player of his size typically wouldn't. Like I'm trying to remember Porzingis, wise, you might have a better feel for this just because he was in New York at the time. But like, it just felt like a lot of these guys, you're worried that something could happen in a given moment, whereas, like, yeah, I have that concern. But if anything, that's been pushed aside with Wembe, because, like, he just seems to flow in a way that I think is almost unnatural, but is fluid to whatever gangly alien type of body he has. And it almost, like, makes things easier.

And it speaks to kind of some of the passing stuff you were kind of referring to there, Kyle, where it's like, there's a cerebral in it. to him and almost like a Zen quality that extends to like his movement and how he plays. And it's like it's pretty remarkable. So the KP thing, everything about KP and

him coming into the league, you know, unicorn, yada, yada. It's like the Kirkland brand version of Wembe. Like literally every single thing about KP. Like what people were captivated by at first was the range.

He could take it out to range. So on offense it was like one, The range at 7.4, 7.3, whatever KP is, was crazy. That he could shoot out to 27 feet, credibly. That was amazing. Like, you know, I remember people just being like, why won't Derek Rose just run a pick and pop with this freaking guy? Like, he just refused to pass it out on picking pop.

The other thing that KP could do was when he was inside of the three-point line, when he faced up against Biggs, he legitimately had a quickness advantage and an athletic citizen advantage. And that got people going. And, you know, like I said, eventually teams just figured out, let's just put a six two guy on him, get in his shirt. He's not going to be able to, you know, bully him in the post. If they do do a pick and roll, we're going to switch the small guy on him and, you know, basically negate his ability to shoot it. Teams eventually figured out what to do because he ended up having no counter to that.

And that's what the guy. And with, again, and I'm not trying to denigrate the guy, but it's true. Like because he showed any rim protecting chops at all in his rookie year, people got really excited. What he was doing on defense was not to this level. It was not to Wenben Yamma's level on defense. It's just we had never seen somebody put all of those things together. Shooting at range, can handle it a little bit, had the quickness to beat all of the big stiffs, right? And could actually deliver something of a positive quality on defense, right?

And Wemby is checking off all of these freaking boxes at a way higher level already, you know? Yeah, you talk about like him, Porzingis catching him. You know, there was a lot of just like belly aching about this in the playoffs. I guess it was in, was it 2020, the one where he got the technical, the Luka playoffs? Yeah, I'm trying to remember what you're people getting really frustrated with him that like, you know, you could put a smart guy. He was guarding him and stuff like that. Yeah. And you're like, okay, well, he's not direct.

He's directionally dead. Like he's not going to do anything. Like Wimby just he has the ability You can't wall him up like that Just because his balance is so good And I think that's the key And that's the thing I've been circling around with him Is that like you watch great athletes like

Okay what's the difference between like Bow Bow and Wimby Well like mentality is a big part of it But like Bo Bo Bo has like size 13 shoes I think people that doesn't get talked about enough either His balance is not Yeah I saw that and I was basically tripping over himself I wear I'm 61 and I wear size 13 So I'm just saying that like that does that really was eye opening to me

Uh, anyway. You gotta put that on your riot profile, boy. Anyway, me and Bo Bo we're the same size. Make of that what you will. Uh, yeah. So, like, if, uh, I just think you watch the best athletes and like, the, the ability to stay on balance. Like, every athlete has like a CPU.

This is the best comparison I can always think of is that, like, if you look at the CPU, like, on a computer and you're like, what programs are running? the fan is running really hot right now and you'll look, you'd be like, oh, God, Google Chrome is at 80% or something. Like, the guys that can minimize the amount of CPU usage with, like, their skill level, you watch guys get in the NBA and they're like, they're so unable to keep up with the skill level that it's eaten up their CPU. They can't eat up their CPU. Physically, if they can't, like, keep up physically, it's eaten up their CPU. You watch Victor, you're like, he's not bothered by any of that stuff. I always think about, like, Dwayne Wade and traffic. You remember how, like, on balance and you'd be like, there.

is total chaos out there, but Dwayne Wade looks like he's just sipping tea like in the chaos. He doesn't care. Wimby has that ability to stay on balance at his size, I think, and that's crazy. And then you like stack on top of that. He's got a really dynamic skill set. And then you stack on top of that. He's got just a calmness and an intelligence about him. And you just, you're stacking things on top of each other that we've just never seen before. Like, you know, we projected this and he's even surpassing the timeline, I think. But that's kind of, that's kind of where my mind is with with what's making him able, physically able to do this right now. It's crazy the level of preparedness.

Not only him, but Chet has coming into the situation. I guess it's a generational thing. Kyle, you'd probably know better than we would. But like it just seems like these guys take this stuff seriously as such a younger age to the point where, like, it seemed like Wembe recognized his potential goat status, like when he was in middle school and almost like veered his path toward that. Like he started preparing for it then.

And like, I don't know if it's just like upbringing. I don't know if it's just like a dispositional thing or if it's resources or what. But it's not just like he's on a whole other level. But like Chet is almost there too. And to see them kind of almost like recognize the significance of the fact that they're going at each other at this point, like that they're still figuring things out, but they know in a big picture sense, like what a moment this is that we're going at each other and that people care about this and that we really care about this.

Like, there is just a typical competitive component to that. But it's just like, it's such a weird thing, especially as we talk about some of the old unicorns. Like, there is a physicality standpoint. It does feel like there has been an evolution of like the type of skills these guys come into the league with. But also, it seems like almost a dispositional thing there. Like, I mean, I'm trying to think back to like Borzingis and AD and some of those guys.

They still seem pretty immature coming into it, ADE particular. Whereas, like, Chet, I know he's had the extra year and everything. everything. But Wembe 2, these are veterans from the, from jump. And it seems like that's helping as well. Yeah, it's, it's all those things that you mentioned. I think the fact that they're just like their MFers basically, you try to keep my swearing to a minimum. I know children are in the car during NBA shows. But like they, they're just, they know not to listen to a wise product. They're competitive. These dudes are. And I think that's a cherry on top. And you know, a lot of like, a lot of like, you know, a justified complaining, I think, goes on with like the American

youth system. Chet was in a situation to be sort of shepherded. We moved, was I think we talked about this at like a, like a ringer NBA summit one time about just talking about how the playground game is not in basketball culture anymore. So these guys are indoors playing and they're shepherded, whereas like the previous generations were playing in really, really disorganized settings. A lot of experimentation and growth went on during that era of like the 80s. and 90s, but now these guys are identified early. And if you're a Chet, whose dad was a former player, Wembe

has, like, I'm pretty sure his parents are, like, former athletes, so they were aware of what's going on. He is siblings that play. His sister plays for, like, the French national team. But he was, like, put in a situation. And the other thing, too, is that Wimby is smart, like, we were talking about. Like, he's one of the, the only, the one analog

that I'm thinking of is that this is, like, Kareem for this generation. Like, his awareness and studiousness is like Kareem. And, like, and he also has that fire. And they both are just stone cold, man. You're watching them in that game. Like, they don't care to take big shots.

They're not afraid. But, like, in terms of, like, taking care of their bodies, yeah, I think they had the right people around them to help them kind of be ahead of the game on that stuff. So I want to make a distinction, too, about what you guys are saying. Because I think the guys come into the NBA way more professionalized, corporatized than ever, right?

Way more polished. way more media savvy, media trained. This understanding that, quote, unquote, I am a brand unto myself, right? The guys come in with that understanding. Whatever. You can say whether that's good or bad for the game, like, I don't know, me personally,

I would prefer the JR riders, the Gary Payton's, the, you know, Vernon Maxwell's of the NBA to these corporate-ass-s suburban-ass cats, but whatever, that's just me. But the thing about Chet and Wemby, Just there are two, some of their big man sort of, you know, compatriots, right? Just think about the attitude about defense and playing sacrificial defense that Carl Towns has had for 90% of his career. That the people in Portland are seeing about D'Andre Aiton, a number one pick in the freaking draft, right?

Just look at his approach to this concept that you would be unselfish and sacrifice yourself on defense. And what does it mean to sacrifice on defense? It's like, yo, holding that defender for just a millisecond longer so your guy

could get back in coverage, right? It's like constantly doing this team-oriented thing that doesn't show up in the stat sheets and doesn't get you girls, right? Like constantly doing that on a possession by possession basis.

And the idea that these two kids are in the first year of their freaking careers and they already understand the importance of that. kind of thing. And again, Carl Towns is in year, what, eight, nine? And like, this is the first time we could say, yo, he's actually doing this and it's paying dividends. That to me is, like, makes a world a difference. We all knew what get you girls is size 13 feet. So that's true.

Take it from me. This guy is sick in the head. He's sick in the head. I was going to speak to the defensive thing and we can be more specific about it. I was looking up in defensive LeBron is a B-ball index stat. That's sort of a catch-all that considers a lot of things. And well, let me do this one first. In Snar defensive plus minus, Wimby's A. He's just making this up.

No, this is real. No, this is our. This one, Snar, Taylor Snar. It's a really good analytics site. I would recommend people check it out. They have subs for fan level and everything too. It's good stuff. But he's already eighth in the league, you know.

And he's 20 years old right now. in defensive LeBron, which goes across years, going back to 2013-14, for guys 23 and under. So that's a big sample. This season, Victor's 20-year-old season, is ranked 14th over that time frame. And he's the youngest player in the top 30. So you're just talking about a guy who is like already at this age hitting a mark that is really unusual. And I think that is like, yeah, I mean, just the way he's able to like cut off. And I, you know, people always talk about like taking away.

the layups and that in and of itself is important like taking away literally those easy points off the board but I think like thinking about what that does to an NBA offense like NBA offense is most of them respond it's the pressure release thing of like we're going to try to get layups and then there'll be like a ripple response to us creating open threes like the pressure of us trying to do that having a Wimby once they start to build this team dude if they can like get other good defenders around him. He's going to be a defensive player of the year sooner than later. I think it's just a matter of what year. I think

the MVP thing. I've said that I think he could break Derek Rose's MVP record, like age-wise. Like, I think this is going to get crazy like in the next couple of years. But yeah, his defensive impact is like unprecedented, more or less. If you guys had a ballot,

is he on there? I think like defensive player of the year goes one, two, three. Like some of the other awards do. Like, I think you have to at least consider him there. I don't think you could surpass Gobert considering the wolves

of success and how much defense is a part of that and how much he is a lot of the defense. But like, I don't know. I can't even, I don't know who you would put

two over Wemby at this point. But you think Victor Wembeyanam was the defensive player of the year? You think he is? No, I said he's like two or three. Oh,

I was about to say, hold of me. I mean, but that's the thing. It's like, well, I think it's more of a question of how crazy is that was.

Like that, how crazy do you think it really is? Like, because that's what it is. Because I don't think it's like tin foil, like off the map crazy. Like I think it's reasonable to think about it. No, it's what I'll say about it. And, you know, some of this stuff is hard to prove in the NBA long-ass regular season, right? I don't think teams have dedicated themselves to figuring out how to attack Wemby's weaknesses on defenses.

Teams don't take the spurs seriously. And so it's just like we can kind of come out and beat this team no matter what. So I don't think, you know, there are specific game plans being built around beating Victor Wenimma, right? I don't think the best minds and the best talents in the games have, you know, decided to home in on what Wembe is doing to defeat him, right? And so I think he benefits from playing on a team that nobody gives a damn about taking seriously. Like, I don't think in a playoff matchup, for instance, I'd rather him than Anthony, Anthony Davis. on defense. I just think Anthony Davis is a Ph.D. level defensive player. And we're talking about a rookie. I'm not sure about that. I can't believe I'm saying this. I'm not sure about that.

I can't. I can't. Was, listen to me. I'm a Kentucky. I love AD. I defend AD. I'm not sure, man. Like, he's, I think he might be more competitive than Anthony Davis. Like, I really do like, wow. He's crazy. Dude, he's got the motor. I think, I think that his resting heart rate as a player, is more steady than Anthony David. Like Anthony gets up there and gets high and revs, his motor can rev high. No, I'm not saying, this isn't a matter of talent to me. I just don't think he has the brainpower of an Anthony Davis,

somebody who's been in the league for 10, 12 years. That's more experiential, though, you're saying. That's what I'm, and that's what I'm talking about. Right. You know what I mean? Like, it's not that the talent isn't there, you know, to one day he'll be like the KG, literally zero weaknesses in my defensive game,

and I'm just going to destroy. every offense by myself. I'm not saying he's not going to get there. But KG is a defensive, was a defensive computer. You know, obviously not as tools he as when because nobody has ever been. But I think once he matches that

with what he's doing, yeah, we can get to what he's talking about. But I do think the mental component matters, man, when you're playing against the best guys and people are actually dedicating, you know, every single brain in the facility is dedicated to beating you on defense.

it's such a tough conversation because we still, even at this point, don't really have the tools to quantify defense in the way that we probably should at this point and even some of the stats that Kyle may or may not have made up. I just don't think are popular enough in order to really get a sense of it. And so it is still an eyeball thing.

And then that starts to bleed more into the team conversation where the spurs as a whole are not good on either side of the ball. And so you're like, well, how much do you give Wembee the crew? credit for basically walling off a large portion of the paint just simply by standing in there. Like, he basically warps the way that you're going to attack offense in a way that I'm not even sure Gobert is doing at this point. But on the other hand, all the results and all of the empirical evidence would point towards someone like a Gobert or even in Anthony Davis, where you could see it, you could quantify it. And there's like something you can grasp

around it. Whereas like with Wembe, it's just like, well, is this like just a lack of nuance or is not having even a secondary perimeter defender to go out and harass these guys and make things easier on him should we give him a benefit of doubt for that? So it's like it's a very complex conversation. I don't know, Kyle, if you have any like where you fall on that. I mean, they defensively have looked like as they've kind of cleaned their lineups up, that stuff has improved and his on-off stuff is insane. I'll stay with it, man. I really can't believe I'm saying it. But like, I think if you swapped win beyond that Lakers team and in the 80's place.

I don't know that it be that different, really. I don't. Like, he's, he's, he's, that's the other thing too, guys is this is like, this is like an algorithm that is like learning incredibly fast. If you watch him, he's like already figuring out like where guys, like, I pointed to the Yonis game as a good example of Yonis, you know, one of the best finishers on the planet. Maybe the best finisher on the planet.

You were watching him like, he, early in the game, he created these little bumps and kind of snuck around Wimby. and you saw Wimby over the course of the game like Matador hit like pull the chair on it so he couldn't do it let the defender go by and he just kind of like does the you know he makes out of area plays that like other guys just can't and he's really smart about when he picks doing it like if you watch some of the guys that come into the league with like crazy defensive potential like we got really

wild about Jaron Jackson Jr. like all the talent in the world but he's all the way on the one end of the spectrum of like he's going to go for everything Wimby is smart about when he goes and when he doesn't I think it's only going to get crazier. So I don't know, man. I'm having a hard time putting a limit on it. So you think Wimmy's the best defensive player in basketball today? I don't.

Jesus Christ, man. Yeah, I'd like to see him do it in some meaningful games, for real. Like, I really would before it's like, yo, this guy is the best defender we've ever seen. Like, we've seen people, you know, have stellar regular season. defensive success, right? And then in a difficult matchup, people put you in positions you don't want to be in. What would happen if Rudy were on the spurs?

I think that's a good question, too. What would happen with Rudy were on the spurs? What would they look like? Like I think the acclamation curve part of it that has affected their numbers, you take that out of it. But he's an offensive, like, you're trading the offensive thing, too. I'm just thinking about like, I'm genuinely this. We're just talking about this in real time.

We didn't plan this. I'm just curious, like, what would it look? like if Rudy were on the spurs defensively? Like at the end of the season product, what would the gap be between him and Wemby? Very quiet. I mean, I think Rudy is, I mean, I think Rudy is just stronger than,

that's like the only advantage that he has. He's stronger and he's seen more. But like, obviously he's not his fleet of foot. Wembe is somehow taller, longer, stretchier than Rudy. Like, I don't know, I don't know that the defensive sort of outcome for the Spurs would be way worse because they had Rudy Gobert. I have a hard time believe in that.

You know what I'm saying? I just, again, like I said, like in the regular season where nobody takes the Spurs seriously, I think that has to factor in, right? Because again, even AD, who I love, he's killing people, right? In the Warriors series, against an offense that's like, yo, it's kind of difficult to figure out. Steph Curry is on another level. He's just killing people. Then he plays against the nuggets in Yolkich, and it's just like, wait a second,

is Rui a better option against Yolkich here, right? Like, to me, that's what happens against the best competition. Like, you're not going to just be able to do the thing that makes you great over and over and over again, right? And so that's all I'm saying about a rookie, you know, obviously more special than any other rookie we've seen,

particularly on defense. Just being like, yeah, he's the best defense basketball has to offer right now. I just have a hard time believing that. Right now within, let's see, within six feet of the basket on the season, defensive differential. Victor is at negative 10.1. Rudy's at negative 14.9. I don't know if you looked at like by month, let's see.

Even just in February, like I said, we're just doing this in real time. I'm just, we're just talking here, Was, we're just talking. We're working through this together. Wait, it's just, you, y'all know me, like, young guys, it's like, you got to show me. I'm not doing this with the young, like, you got to really show me in the biggest moments, right? Because, again, like, the focus that it takes on a possession by possession basis to make the right decision every single time. We see young people, young players on the road in these big moments, you know, not your jump shots not falling that day. Just make mental errors, right?

And that's what I mean. This is not a sort of when we can't get there kind of thing. It's just like I've just seen it over and over with young people in big spots. The brain just can't handle it because they're just encountering this level of play for the first time. And so your decision making, like, it can't be as fast because it's just harder. Yeah, I think there would be a lot of nuance there and coverages where Wembe probably wouldn't be as sharp as Rui there. But the advantage that he has is that his physical size and just his dimensions just the margin for a lot of the growing pains. Yes.

Rudy's been awesome in February, too. I'm not trying to steal. And I think you are absolutely in the right to, like, bolster and appreciate the integrity that it takes. takes to be a defensive anchor in the playoffs. That's absolutely true. I just think, yeah. I mean, the Wimby's soft brain needs to, you know, hardening and fully mature for him to get to where he's going.

But I think he's going to get there. Sorry, Justin. Go ahead. Well, one thing I kind of watch and track as I watch Wembe is how often he actually leaves the floor. Like, how much does he actually jump in order to do the things that he does? He don't need to. He's more like, he pounds out in order to contest sometimes.

Right? He did that against Chet late in the game when Chet was trying to hit a fall away and when he blocked it. But like, doesn't jump when he shoots. Like when he's blocking, he kind of just does that aggressive, like not jump. Like you do when you're playing Nerf basketball against like your friend back in the day where it's like the hoop is so low you don't have to jump, but you want to just really go for it. But so you're like, ah, and just not jumping. It's just what he's able to do just like in.

Yeah. It's just, it's miraculous. And so for that reason, I tend to agree with Kyle. I mean, if we're doing the ballot, I still think I put Rudy there. But like, he's got to be two or three there. But then, I mean, even if you factor in the offensive ability and everything brings there, then it's no contest. If we're just making the direct comparison, if anything, on our top 100 in the ring of rankings,

this was like a sticking point. I was like, there's no way that Goberra can be over Wembe and even chat. I mean, you know, and the thing is, man, like as consistently, excuse me, that Wembe is just dropping like 28 and 27 on people's heads. And when Rudy has 13, we throw a parade, like, I feel you. Like, offense is harder. And if the defense is even remotely close, like the way that he's so much better on offense than this guy, yeah, he's, he's better than Rudy right now. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you talked about him jumping. He had a play in that game. Bless Gordon Hayward's heart. Well, this is the thing that

happens that like when you play against, you know, Justin, we've all played basketball. Whenever you play with somebody that's a little bigger than like that messes with your equilibrium, there's a thing that happens where you're thinking more, you're not instinctive. And I think that's that first layup that gets blocked where you're just like, yeah, there's a lane here. I'm taking it. And, you know, you're 5-11 and that guy's 6-8, and it seems like he barely did anything and smacked your shit to the stand. It's like, that is an ego check like none other.

Yeah, the ability to, like, I was going to say, too, I think Wimby is going to make Chet better. That's a whole other conversation, because you watch him kind of work around Wimby, and it's pretty fascinating to watch. But, like, Hayward had a play where he caught a ball off of like a dribble handoff and went to the rim, had a pretty great.

He had an awesome space. Like, normally, he put it. it up on the glass. Wimby just kind of got off the floor. He did like a one step jump. His hand was like, I don't even know, eight inches from the top of the backboard. It was like something crazy off of just one step. But I think like you all talking about like the offensive part of it, I'll say this word again, stacking. When like you, when you go back and look at the guys who are like defensive caliber, defensive player the year caliber players, I just think he's doing things that like you're just, you just don't see.

Like, you know, I was trying to think back of like, if you think about a guy who like has a defensive impact, I know Will versus Bill Russell, like, in terms of, I don't know how many like guys who are going to be able to reach the level of like passing that he's going to reach, in my opinion, as,

as this level of a, of a defensive present. So, yeah, the offensive stuff, I think he just really, really separates him still himself. Yeah,

that's the, that's the part of it that I lament some of the guys that they put around him when you see just what a natural ball mover he is and what just like a shrewd passer he could be like he's already getting i think it's like three to four assists a game on average like this could be like in the seven sort of range like pretty quickly if we're just making some of the shots that guys like a jeremy sohan is probably missing that trey jones is the one being kicked out to uh like you're starting to see it ping around a little bit more as guys get more comfortable but like this guy, I mean, the five by five might be a regular occurrence, if not by next season,

then perhaps the season after that. And I think it gets into the bigger conversation about like how you build around Wembe. It seems like the earlier in the season was almost like a statement or like a declaration of intent in terms of like how they saw the team going forward, which is just like a lot of wings. Honestly, and similar to the way that the thunder have really built what they have. Obviously, Shea is the first and foremost there. And so trying to recreate that is a little difficult, but like the attacking from the perimeter, the size on the perimeter, just the spread core. I do wonder, like, Kyle, are you seeing like similar things with Wembe? Like, if you were in that war room, the Spurs front office, are you, like, looking at the Thunder

and what they built and be like, we should probably follow that model? Or are you saying, well, first and foremost, let's get someone who could actually pass them the ball? Or, like, what in your mind is like the thing that should be first and foremost for the Spurs now? Well, I was thinking about this. I was like going through the list. I'm just like, okay, well, you need, you obviously need better passing around him. I think that's like the passing and shooting. But then you start to ask yourself, okay, like, how different is this conversation than like any other team in the league?

I don't know. Yeah, like, that's what I was going to pose to you all is like, how distinct is this? We know we need to go. Maybe you have a conversation about like, okay, we need to go find guys who are like specifically good lob throwers. And there's like data out there on that if you want to do that or just go by your eye test, whatever. But there are some guys in this upcoming draft that I think are interesting. like for the spurs and maybe grab it a decent value.

But yeah, I mean, you need the spacing around him. He cleans up so much defensively. I guess you just start to figure out what you want to prioritize first, like trying to protect him with like better ball pressure. They have some,

I don't know, man. Let's start with that question of like, is this that different from how you would build a normal team? I mean, I think they, I think they definitely need to get better passing and better shooting around them. That's like a priority, number one, for me.

I think it's different in the sense that it's easier. In the sense that if you have a dude who's capable of becoming an eraser on defense, and not just that he's a plus offensive player, but he's a spacer. Right? So, like, everything is now, everything flows out of that in a way that is easy to figure out. Like, this idea of playmaking, I think, is a bit maybe, might be a little bit overstated because I see how dominant Boston's offense can be by just having a bunch of shooters

with very little playmaking, let's be real, right? Like being able to be five out and have a dominant offense, like to me that's a model. Like if KP can produce that, then of course you have to get talented offensive players around him, right? But like, to me, they should be prioritizing guys

that can put the ball in the bucket because you have somebody that can erase so many mistakes on defense and the defensive stuff to me should be secondary when my big man situation is so rock solid and figured out in terms of these, you know, he can guard one through five if needed to at the end of shot clock and it's just a dominant paint protector, right?

So to me, the priorities should be guys that could fill it up. And if you putting guys that can fill it up around the center who can stretch out to 26 feet, the lanes become so much more wide open, Passing angles, the sort of decisions that you have to make become so much clearer than, let's face it, look at what Minnesota has to do with Rudy, right? Where Aunt Edwards is like trying to figure out how to playmake, how to find angles in an offense that has a guy that's glued to the freaking paint all day.

Playmaking is easier when the court is spread out, and your center is not some freaking, you know, who needs paint touches 12 times a game, right? And so to me, they need to get some premium ball handling juice. That's what to me should be the premium. Everything else is like, whatever. What do you think about the Trey Young flirtation? Do you think the Spurs would even fuck with him at all? Like, that's kind of an interesting thing because obviously you take a guy who gives such

an offensive plus, they're sort of a funny dynamic together to think about, like, if you wanted to get one guy who was the perfect player. Like, Trey obviously has so many defensive questions, has been at times the worst defensive player in the league. I don't know if you could say that now, but, like, if you wanted to pick one guy that could cover Trey up and, like, support all the incredible virtuosic stuff he asked. It certainly tests my theory to the limit.

To the freaking Max, excuse me, like, bro. I think the Trey thing would be incredible, because, again, another thing we didn't even. we haven't even mentioned about Wemmy is his freaking ability to vertically space. Like, he's an alley-Upe threat at all times from all freaking places on the court. And obviously, he's also picking pop. Like, that marriage would be a sweet symphony for sure. And then, you know, defensively, we would really put your theory of Wembe being the greatest defensive player in a history of life to the test immediately.

Well, that's what you're balancing, right? Yeah. Well, I do think this is where the organizational DNA of the Spurs tends to kick in here because I do think you could say like, oh, this would be a nice match, like offense for Trey and then Wembe cleans things up defensively. But, I mean, I'm just going back into history. We haven't really seen them take that big of a risk. I'm not necessarily a personality like Trey's, but someone that's just like breaks away

from the system as much as he does. Like even like Tony Parker, Monon Genoble, these guys were creative in ways that it's like kind of surprising at times, especially when you look at all the other players they were playing alongside. But they were real fall in line sort of guys. And so, like, I would be surprised, especially as long as pop is there. That's probably as much of a question as is anything that we're talking about here, them going out and like taking a big risk there. Like, when you see them take risks, like, it was Stephen Jackson where there really wasn't much of a risk. It was almost all upside and they can get rid of them if anything happened there. But like,

for them to do that man, like would be just complete out of character. And so I'm not surprised at times when I look out there and I see a lot of three and D projects. And honestly, at times it almost feels like you have to push them to even put Tray Jones back in the game. Like you see them go for wings with Wemby. And then it's like, all right, I guess we got to give Wemby the ball now and win this game. And so like I would be surprised if they went and did that sort of big swing. I don't see how you can win big without elite or close to elite perimeter shot creation on your team. As good as Wembe is, I don't know that he could be a Yokic just straight up.

We play out of this one freaking big man and all of our playmaking and everything happens to it. I don't think he's going to be that guy. You're going to need a guy who can handle the ball all the time and do it in an elite or close to it fashion. So just being like, oh, we're just going to throw a bunch of, you know, dudes out there. We're just going to have a bunch of Dorian Finney Smiths out there next to Wemby and try to win championships. That don't make no sense. You need elite creation on the perimeter. This is still the NBA, guys.

you still need that. Yeah, I'm just kind of looking at like the expirings. I'm not seeing one that's like really jumping out to me that they could add in the short time. I mean like Spencer Dinwiddie, there's a big cue the laugh track there. I mean like Mike Conley obviously is somebody that just makes sense everywhere. But like in terms of just young guys, I don't know even know who they could come and get. I mean, like haven't also been players in free agency pretty much ever. And last off season maybe was probably a clear.

a sign that they probably won't even go that route in the interim. But the guys that you're going to add in this upcoming draft, I don't know that there's going to be like a big mover in terms of, in terms of like their immediate situation. And I think these wimby years, I think people have been right to sort of like say like, you know, he's he's somebody that I think they should take seriously now. You know, I know in the beginning of the year, we were just like, should they just go ahead and have like a now mentality? And what was was talking about. I think he's probably more ready to be like a defensive floor raiser than an offensive one right now.

but the offense is really coming along, man. And I'm just looking at this and I'm like, I don't know. Like I tried to orchestrate. I thought like a Cleveland San Antonio deal could be pretty interesting because I think like in this in the same way that like Trey, you're talking about Trey going rogue, I feel like Garland way more to me.

Like if you convince Donovan to stay, I'm sure you'll probably watch probably thinks that's not happening. But like if you if you could get Garland away from them, he actually does some of the things that Trey does, but gets on and off the ball more, where you could like, which would benefit Wimby. And he's a pretty good,

you know, pretty good, great passer, great movement shooter. That's somebody that makes sense. So I wonder if it might even be a trade like that. I don't know. But like you said,

their characteristic kind of does. Would San Antonio give up? Like, do they have anything like Vessel? Keldon and Vassell? I think, I don't, what's,

that's a question? What's nailed down if you're San Antonio? I don't think anything but Wimby. I like none of these cats. I know the hipsters love Devin Vassell and was like, oh, the contract is justified. Not saying it's not. I'm just saying like, I don't see how you watch this team play this year and be like,

oh, there are foundational pieces on this team that aren't Wenimiyama right now. I don't see that. I'm more worried about like the Kelden Johnson, a guy who already got paid and kind of seems to have topped out whatever version he's going to be in the Spurs. And like, Sohan too, like, yeah, maybe he could be. sort of like a point of attack defender like Nouveau Rodman type but like then does he really fit

with Wemby and what you're sort of like thinking is like a five out sort of situation but like Nouveau Rodman playing point guard is insane. That is crazy. Justin. Verrier thing I've ever heard in my life. But like Brannum, Champany like none of these guys really jump out to me.

They're kind of they're all just kind of like pardon the word here but it's just kind of a flaccid thing. It's like you're looking for a guy with like a plus plus, you know? It's like these guys, you get into this like this like malaise of like, I like this guy. Like I like this person. They do some things well, but you need like a plus plus skill set.

I saw on here, Malik Monk is in expiring if that's right. I mean, that's somebody. Yeah, I would you love that. That's interesting. But I mean, you, you'd also kind of wonder about like body types, you know. Do you want too many, if you try to go, I think this is the kind of thing you're balancing and trying to solve is like, how do we get. the juice that Waz is talking about in the short term that we need that is obviously more valuable than ever in the space dot NBA without having a bunch of guys out there that weigh

190 pounds, 180 pounds, who are going to be like struggling to keep guys from coming downhill at Wimby. I'm not saying go back to the Mike Nardi Villanova situation, right? Four guards what a pull. Or six three and a big man. No, I'm not saying to do that. But get get somebody who can kill somebody off the dribble please one of my favorite signs ever in the crowd at a yukon game was nerdy loves cold play which is like just like a paper cut that you knew just like hurt him for weeks on end it was just like the right amount of hurt there the first three albums are good i'll fight anybody on that anyway uh well the guy that that ESPN has mocked to the spurs, Kyle, is your guy, Rob Dillingham, who's a point guard.

That would be fun. Was, if you watch Rob Dillingham? I have not seen any of him. Oh, boy. I can't wait. What's his comp? I can't wait for you to watch Rob Dillingham. I'll watch him in the SEC tournament. Dude, he's wild, but he's like super, super, super creative.

I said he was like, I said early in the season to our fans, I was like, dude, he's like Malik Monk in a smaller body, but not that much smaller. He does some crazy, like, I don't want to invoke the name of Kyrie here, but like he's, he does some really wild stuff off the dribble. Like he's a really creative finisher. He's like a fearless, like microwave, like a lather score. He's kind of, I don't know, he's just in that like scoring combo guard maxi roll. But he's, I think he's a little quicker and I think he's a more creative shooter and score. He's somebody that's fun.

I mean, that would be fun. I don't know about dealing him with the spurs culturally. Maybe, maybe he's demonstrated. He's pretty mature, but I'm talking to, I'm just kind of talking to, you know, like blank faces who haven't seen him. I know yet. But have you even seen him? Justin, you know what I'm saying here? No, I'm at the point in the college season where I was conversational enough about Yukon to where I could be like, oh, yeah, like, Cam Spencer, just 50, 40, 90. Like, I know the bullet points of what I should be saying, but I'm waiting for the tournament to then just log on and be as bandwagon as possible. That one, that one would be fun. I've pointed out. there's a guy that plays for Duke named Tyrese Proctor,

who's like a pretty good passer handler. He's got some other stuff to come around. He fits the spurs mold to me. He seems like somebody that could work in what they like to do. So that's one. But, you know, like I said, these are names. These are just names.

I don't know. I feel the eyes glazing over as I talk about something that nobody else knows about, but it's fine. Before we go, we are kind of coming up on tournament time. And this is the time where Was, and other NBA specific fans are probably thinking like, oh, shit, I actually have to pay attention to these guys.

Like, is there like, this is the time of year that I told folks that Brandon Miller was clearly, should clearly be the number two pick in the draft because I watched three SEC tournament games and I became a draft expert. So yes. It worked out for you. Which is weird. Brandon Miller came out. He didn't even play that great in the SEC tournament.

So that's your sharp eye there was. Yeah. I mean, to me, it's just like when you have that kind of size and you show skill and feel, you know, because like, yeah, you know, a lot of these cats, and I won't mention any names, they get drilled to death. Yes, you have a ball handling coach, you have a shooting coach, you have a conditioning coach. We get it. You've corporatized and departmentalized your game. But when it comes to playing basketball, they just don't possess that natural feel and understanding that Brandon Miller so clear.

really had. And he showed it all the time, even when the jump shot wasn't falling and stuff like that. Are you talking about Scoot? Was, are you talking about the scoot videos of him with Brandon Payne? And they're like, oh, I love whenever they do this thing. I think Ryan's complained about this too, where the social media push will happen, where a player who has a weakness will be like obviously positioned with a skills coach. Like the classic one is like, well, he talked to Akeem over, Dwight talked to Akeem over the

summer. He's better. Is that what you're taking shots at Waus? Just be specific. My thing was just like, yo, bro, he's six foot one. And so, like, for him to become some extremely high impact player, like, he has to bring a lot to bear. That's just it. I'm just heightest. I'm just like, I'm not drafting those six foot one guy. He's six foot three, Waz. Are you saying that the information online is not correct that it's like. Right, right. He's six foot one. It's just like, I'm not betting the farm on a six foot one dude. He, like, it better. jump off the screen for a guy that small, right, of his size. To me, Brandon Miller was just obviously a guy who translate to what the league does every single day.

Well, Kyle, give us like one or two or three things that we should be keeping nine. Because it seems like every time I look at a draft board, it's guys from France. It's like SAR and like blah blah blah. And so I don't really know those guys. But if we're watching somewhere KOC just passed out. Yeah. Rebla's had his pick and roll reps have gone up lately here for Mets 92.

He's looking great. I'll spare the international guys for you. Like I know that one's even further away. We'll get to that at some point. They're going to be a major factor in this. Like an international guy might go number one in this draft. Alexander Saar, it's potential. That's Olivier Saar's brother who was with the Thunder.

Let's see. If we're just kind of looking at like storylines, the guys who are contention for number one. I mean, like throughout the year, Isaiah Call, you're the guy for USC. People have talked a lot about him. There's a guy for your huskies that I think could be, I don't know.

The problem is that there's not like a clear guy who you typically would say like, this guy's the hub of an offense. This guy's like for sure, a defensive anchor like on a playoff team. We're not sure about some of those guys. Stefan Castle, like the one that you were talking about.

Rob Dillingham is somebody for Kentucky. We have a few interesting guys that could go in the top 10 it's a mess. Everybody that I talk to is just like, it's a total mess. We don't really know who the clear cut number one guy is. But Dillingham, Reed Shepard's another guy for Kentucky that I think is going to be like a lottery pick potentially. Yeah, other than that, I don't know if I'm forgetting somebody.

I don't have the list in front of me, but. So what I'm hearing from you is we should expect Yukon to repeat. And that's the only thing that matters. If we're lucky, that doesn't happen. Yeah. Do you know how insufferable I will be in your text messages? that week and that week. Yeah, I do.

Yeah, I do feel like Kentucky and Yukon, though, for our purposes, Justin, are like the most, two of the most interesting teams, though, because of their talent and because of their ceilings. Like, I think Kentucky's ceiling is a lot more volatile than Yukon's. I do think Yukon's going to repeat and win it all. But Cody Williams is another guy, Jaylon's younger brother,

who's playing at Colorado, who's got good size, and his body has sort of an awkward thing that's kind of coming around. you kind of imagine what he's going to be like in a couple of years. And I think we'll look back and be like, wow, he was a great talent just kind of sitting there in front of us. Dalton Connect for Tennessee is sort of like a wing score who's really matured a lot. I don't know. So there's a few.

We'll talk more about the tournament. Like we'll sort of make like a menu of people to kind of keep an eye on in the tournament because that's always helpful to have. I know. Yeah. It's good to fight those guys in advance. Before we go, Waz, have you accepted that. Chet isn't going to be the rookie of the year emotionally. Are you prepared for that?

It's fine. It's fine. I get to be a hypocrite and be happy about his team success because just the other day I railed against this idea that Jason Tatum was a serious MVP candidate just because his team had the best record in the league. And so I'm going to be hypocritical. And just bask in the team's success of Chad Holmgren. Pride of the prairie, man.

The pride of the prairie, exactly. All right, why don't we wrap it there? Thanks to Kyle for joining us. Thank you to Carlos Chirpoga for filling in on production. Thank you to Tucker Tashin. Thank you for Ben Cruz for showing up halfway through this recording. I saw you there. We'll be back on Wednesday.

We'll see you. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Fandul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino, LL. C. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit Fandul.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, Vermont, and Virginia. Call 1-800 next step or text next step to 533-4-2 in Arizona. 1-888-889-77- or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. 1-8009 with it in Indiana.

1,800 522470470 or visit KSgamblinghelp.com in Kansas, 1-877770 stop in Louisiana. Visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Visit 1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia or call 1-800 522470470 in Wyoming. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline, MA.org, or call 800-327-50-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 18778 Hope NY or text HopeNY in New York.