The Ringer NBA Show - The Wild, Wild West and Midseason Overreactions | The Mismatch

Episode Date: January 7, 2020

The Spurs, Pelicans, and Grizzlies have all looked quite encouraging as of late; do they have what it takes to make it into the playoffs (0:43)? As we approach the halfway mark of the regular season, the guys each give three overreactions from the season thus far (27:28). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly, and welcome to The Ringer Podcast Network. We published some great episodes in the month of December, including a rewatchables with Quentin Tarrantino on Dunkirk. Sean Fennessey set down with Greta Gerwig to talk about her new film Little Women on The Big Picture, and Adam Sandler and Kevin Garnett appeared on the Bill Simmons podcast to talk about their newest film on Cut Jems. Happy New Year from The Ringer. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon, and join me as he does every Tuesday from The Ringer.com. is Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber, A.K.K.E. Kevin O'C. Cranet, Kevin O'C., Kevin O'Conflict.

Kevin. Verno. What's going on, buddy? Well, today, we're about 40 games through the season, so we decided at the beginning of the season we did our overreactions. After the first week of the season, we are going to do our mid-season overreactions today. But before, let's go through some big things that happened last night, and since we've last spoken, one of which was with the bucks losing, every time they lose, it's a story.

They've only lost six times the entire. season and it was at the hands of the San Antonio Spurs last night who have carved their way into the playoff race in the Western Conference by virtue of so many teams doing so poorly over the last couple of weeks. But that was a really good win for the Spurs last night as the mentor defeats the pupil. We saw on Saturday night San Antonio lost to Milwaukee 127 to 118 and then obviously last night beating them 126 to 104. But in both of those games, San Antonio essentially did what we're going to see teams try to do in the postseason against the Bucks when they're game planning for Yon

Senta Kumpo. And that sang off him protecting the paint, trying to force anybody else on that team to beat them. It happened on Saturday. It didn't on Monday. But it was just interesting to see the Bucks get tested in a way that we're going to see them get tested virtually every single night in the postseason. So I think for Milwaukee, this was probably a good home and home experience for them to really get going of what's

going to feel like a playoff type of game plan that they're going to go against with the spurs. And it's one of those that until they get it done in the postseason, people are just going to, I don't want to say roll their eyes at the regular season, but they're going to say, you know, prove it when it comes crunch time, right? Or else you are. Atlanta, you know, with Budenhouser that won a million games during the regular season and then came up short in the postseason.

But, I mean, you've got to be, if you're Milwaukee, anything less than a conference finals that goes very deep is a disappointment and possibly given the timeline you have on Janus, you know, I mean, they got to win big. And they got to win big this year. Sure. For Milwaukee, like it goes

without saying, we've been through this and we'll talk about it a bunch. leading up to July when he can sign the superman access extension. And for San Antonio, though, it is interesting to see them changing some of the things that they reverted back to last season. When they first got Aldridge, Greg Popovich had him shooting threes. And then they pulled the plug on that because Aldrich doesn't like shooting threes. But this year, he's shot 74, three-pointers already.

He only had 42 last year, shooting 46% from three. We have DeRosen starting to shoot more threes. DeJante Murray started to shoot more threes. It's kind of interesting to see San Antonio on the fly starting to modernize their offense after early in the year. And last year it worked. It worked for them last season. But early in the year with the sputters that they were having, they're like, you know what, screw it. We've got to have these guys shoot threes.

And it's starting to work for them a little bit. They're only five and five in their last 10. But as you said, Chris, they have slid into that eight seed. Well, and many times when you are attempting to get people to change, what has to happen? They have to fail. They have to fail in order for you to get them to change. I mean, this is what you're going through. This is exactly what we talked about when we talked about Nicoliochich and maybe he should get in better shape or Ben Simmons.

And maybe he should do this and that. And the quotes are basically, look, I got a max deal playing the way I play. I'm doing okay here, right? But it was pretty obvious with the spur. Like, you're not doing okay. You're not doing okay. And truth be told, Baldurge is going to fall into the category of a lot of. guys and especially a lot of big guys over the last several years, that if he is going to extend

his career, he's going to have to become a three-point shooter. We saw this most explicitly with Mark Assal happen over the last couple of years, and he was just on a title team doing it. But Aldridge has always been a good shooter. The idea that he couldn't stretch it back, six more feet, has always been a bit puzzling. And I know he loves posting up and doing that turnaround elbow extended jumper, but he could really extend his career for a long time as being a guy that comes down the court and stretches the floor, especially just from the top of the key. Sure, exactly. And that's kind of what we're seeing right now from Aldridge is that evolution. You do hope that over time, whether it's with San Antonio or whether it's with another team,

no matter what happens with his own decisions moving forward after free agency next summer in 2021, you hope for him he does accept shooting three-pointers because that will, extend his career because for years, dude, like, he's, he's been one of the top mid-range shooters in the NBA. And realistically, if he wanted to and he committed the time to extending that range, he could do it. Just like we've seen other guys like Mark Rousal do it, Al Horford do it. Aldridge can do that too.

And hopefully for his own career, he can be that dynamic big man moving forward who can space the floor for his teammates and enhance them, but also still post up when he needs to. A few other things from last night that mattered. a rough weekend extended for New Orleans with officiating because on Sunday they were so upset about the push off from Kyle Rudolph and the non-called offensive pass interference and then turn around in their basketball team game on the line Brandon Ingram goes to the basket. Rudy Gore-Bair, I mean, clearly fouls the guy and no call and that's a loss. And that is, look, we're to the point of the season where this loss is one that could keep the pelicans out of the playoffs. And so it matters a great, great deal. As unfortunately, many times it is, the referee pool explanation was totally unsatisfactory.

I guess two things. Number one, they got screwed and they should have gotten the call and they should have been playing in overtime. That doesn't guarantee you winning. Number two, to me, taking the ball to the basket on Rudy Gobert with the. game on the line. It usually ends with you getting blocked or a foul not getting called. So I don't, you know, it's hard for me to feel super terrible because that's what you did. And being that he has gotten the credentials as such a great defense of player, they usually don't call the foul on him, even if it does file you. And he's had now more than a few game saving blocks where teams have

gone at him with the game on the line. It's interesting because at the start of that possession, you can see Lonzo ball signaling to call a timeout. And maybe Alvin Gentry, we couldn't see him. He was out of the frame. But maybe Alvin Gentry was also calling for a timeout because it is a bit surprising that Ingram did go coast to coast there. But then again, I mean, I understand Utah's defense wasn't set. And New Orleans likes to push the ball.

Maybe there's an indication from Gentry prior to that push if you have an opportunity. And he did. And he was filed. It just wasn't called. And for New Orleans, though, even despite the law, even despite the bad call. If you're a Pelicans fan, you still have to come away from this game

and be like, you know what? Brennan Engram had another great performance against a great defense. Lonzo Ball once again has been awesome. All right. Yeah, we need to take a 20 second time out on this, Kemp, because you and I talked about it, you know, several weeks ago.

Like, what is he? What is his destiny? Exactly. And this is another lesson in, yo, let this thing play out when they're young players because these last. four games, he's looked like UCLA Lonzo. I mean, again, it's four games, but...

Better than UCLA Alonzo. He's getting to the rim more frequently. He looks better off the bounce. Well, how about this? He's towards his right, for that matter. You have... It's really nice. 24 points a game, eight assists,

six and a half rebounds, one and a half steals, 54% from the field, 46% from three. Again, four games is not a huge sample, but it is a four game sample of him scoring 20 plus, shooting high percentages and looking like a much different player than he had up until this point.

Well, we talked about it that other week when, I forget our exact back and forth, but I think I remember saying something like with Lons, I'm just not sure what he's ever going to be as a scorer. And with him, because the fact is that the at-room finishing had not developed in the way that you would hope for, the shot was still inconsistent, especially off the dribble. His three-pointer off the catch is much better. and that's incredibly encouraging for him when you think about playing alongside Brandon Ingram, playing alongside Zion Williamson and other guys who were going to have the ball. That's critical.

However, for Lonzo to reach number two picking the draft potential that you expect from him, the development off the dribble had to happen. And we have seen the flashes of that as of late. And that's where you look at him right now, just turned 22 years old, a little over two months ago. It's there. The ability is there. It's just about putting it all together. over time. And I hope for Lonzo, if three, four years from now, we look at him and he's somebody who can get to the rim more consistently and get to the line to overcome the fact that sometimes he's not going to be able to pull up from outside, then we have a real player who already is a stellar defensive player at his position when he's locked in and engaged. But then he's also a dynamic

passer. But if he can get to the rim, that changes everything with what we think about what Lonzo has been best far in his career. Well, and say he pans out like many people thought he would when he came into the league. You're talking about him Ingram Man Zion? Holy mackerel. And look, and I like some of the young guys. Jackson Hayes isn't ready yet, but you could see him becoming a rotation player for sure in the NBA, maybe a very good one.

And I loved Nikiel Alexander Walker, who hasn't shown yet, but I still believe in a great deal. I mean, it's starting to look like that. Pelicans team that we thought you were going to get when they came into the season. And unbelievably, Kev, who would have ever imagined? Sometimes it's just the guy you can't lose because of who is playing instead of him. And the transformation this team has made once it's gotten Derek Favors back into the mix is unbelievable. Derek Favors, who would have thought?

And that's what we hit on last week with Favors, just the stability he provides as a screener on the offensive end of the floors as an interior finisher cleaning things up, but also as just the defensive player who is so good positionally. And Utah Jazz fans have seen it in the past, right? And now Pelicans fans are just so happened for Utah. They were on the winning side of that last night. By the way, one other thing on Lonzo, though, with his shot, even though, three-point numbers are up, he's shooting 38% from three on catch-and-shoot opportunities.

he's still shooting only 51% from the free throw line. And historically, free throw percentage is a greater indicator of future three-point shooting success. So it is interesting and noteworthy that the free throw percentage is still bad. And for Lonzo, that's just something to keep in mind. It's only been 37 free throw attempts, a very small sample. But in his career, still only 46% from the free throw line over 156 attempts total in his career. So that's just something to keep in mind with him moving forward. that this could just be a hot streak, even those mechanics look better, even though everything

looks better, the free throw percentage is still bad. And you know what that makes me think of is I actually had this conversation with somebody the other day. My son played in an AAU tournament a couple weekends ago. And, I mean, this young kids, young kids, I swear to God, every kid there on those teams shot a better percentage from three than they did from the free throw line. They couldn't have free throws to save their lives, but they could all shoot threes. And I wonder if Lonto is like the beginning of this generation that has,

actually practiced 700,000 threes a day, but never stands at the free throw line. You know what I mean? It is kind of crazy because I saw that in a tournament. These kids couldn't hit free throws to save their life, but they could bang threes from everywhere. It was crazy. It's pretty weird. I know.

I mean, it's kind of like. It's what they practice. I'm telling you it's what they practice. Steph Curry has changed everything. Well, it's like Bruce Bowen is the guy who comes to mind when I think of poor free throw shooters who are good three-point shooters. He shot under 60% from the line in his career, but he was a 40% three-point shooter, just weird.

Well, it's probably just because he stood in that corner and took $500,000 a day, you know, and just made sure I can hit that shot. And I'm telling you, with kids, now coming up, you don't ever see them standing at the free throw line practicing free throws. Every one of them is behind the three-point line practicing those.

It's wild. And it's almost, when you say that, that's exactly what came to mind, that maybe he is just like, he is what we're going to see many times in the future, guys that shoot better from three than they do from the free throw line. Our producer for today's show,

Isaac Lee just messaged me with a fun fact. Isaac, a clipper's fan who probably still hates Lonzo Ball, sent us to me. Markle Fultz has had a higher free throw percentage every single season than Lonsel Ball. Interesting. We talk about Fultz with the Yips,

but these been better than Lanzo. Hey, Foltz, also. career high last night. He had 25. He had 25 last night. Mark Lofoldz, I mean, imagine this. Last night, Lanzo ball, 21 points, 8 rebounds, 7 assists, 4 for 6 from 3. Markle Fultz, 25.5 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 11 for 20.

Took 20 shots from the field and 2 for 5 from 3. Figure that out. I mean, good grief. You have had Lanzo who got benched and, early December has come back as a starter and they're winning regularly and he's playing great. And then you have now Markell Fultz who like last night, if you just watched that game, looked exactly like the type of prospect.

Many people thought he could be when he was coming out in the draft. And I know you were a big fan of him when he was coming out in the draft. Of course. Who wasn't a fan of Markle Fultz coming out of the drafts? Who wasn't? Everybody was. There were some questions, but it was basically surrounding how horrible his team was. Sure, but with Fultz, you looked at him as a player as somebody who would be a two-way force as a versatile defender with size, six-foot-four, long arm, strong body, and then on offense, a guy who was a pick-and-roll maestro.

And we've seen the playmaking potential in Orlando. We saw it in Philadelphia for that matter, too, but the scoring is still something that needs to get better. Last night, it was really just a hot shooting night for him, but hopefully this is something that can develop over time. Yeah. Another thing that One other thing on Utah, first of all, like any jazz fans are pissed that we're not talking about them. We talked about them a bunch last week of how a bunch better they've been.

But Boyon Bogdanovich, 35 points, zero assist, zero rebounds. That is a weird stat line. Oh, hey, no, no, no, no, no. You're selling it short because he had zero all across. Nothing else. There were two others. He didn't have steals. He didn't have blocks. Zero steel, zero blocks. Yeah. So, I mean, you're talking about, like, the major counting stats. He had 35 points at zero.

I actually saw this, I think, on maybe it was NBA TV or something. It was Allen Houston? Yes, Alan Houston. Yeah. In 2000s, December 12th, O.O. I mean, it's just hard to do. It's hard to do to not be in the mix. Because theoretically, you have to play, obviously, it's hard to do if nobody's done it in 20 years. But you have to play, you know, the amount of minutes that it would take to score. 35 points. Something else is going to happen. You're going to be involved in something.

Like, a ball's going to bounce up to you, or you're going to pass it to somebody that scores or something else. You couldn't try to do that. For what it's worth, in that game, Alan Houston also had zero steals and zero blocks. Very odd. Very odd. That is. A hard thing to do.

Another stat line worth mentioning last night is the Luca dominance continues. This time it was against the Bulls. 38, 11, and 10. And he's getting a little trash talky. I like this. Do you see him through three quarters? He had 34. And he's, who was it?

I think it was Shaq Harrison. I think it was. Shaq Harrison started popping off. And Luca looked right at him and said 34, 34. Like I got 34 through three quarters. What are you talking about? Oh, by the other side of that, free mention, because we might not get to it, marketing's been way better recently.

you know, he's good last night and he's been, you know, we killed him earlier. Like, what the hell happened to this guy? He's been a lot better over the course of the last couple of weeks. So anyways, back to Luca. First with marketing. Sorry. With marketing, it's great to see because this guy's an offensive talent.

And for Chicago early in the year, I had heard some rumblings that maybe there's teams trying to get him from Chicago. I think if you're the Bulls, you need to hold on to him and try to build with him because of the offensive talent that he had. And so for him to be performing the way he has as of late, I think that confirms probably their initial belief that he's a guy they should keep.

And other teams should keep going for him. I just don't think Chicago should trade him. And for Luca, is this just a normal thing? Every night now, he's just going to be putting up 35, you know, 10 and 8. This is a normal thing now, isn't it? Yes. Of course it's a normal thing. I mean, look, it's January 6th.

It's normal. Like you've been doing it at the very beginning of the season. You would figure you get halfway through the season, people are going to start saying, all right, this guy ain't killing us tonight, right? Like everybody else on the Mavericks can kill us, but this guy ain't going to kill us.

And he goes out and kills him. It's January 7th, by the way. I remember, I think it was after eight games, eight games into the season. I tweeted out that Luca was a top 10 player. And people tweeted me back, like,

show me your top 25 list. Like, show me your list. This doesn't make sense. You're overreacting, blah, blah, blah. And now it's like top 10 was a cold take, right? This guy is clearly a top five, six guy already at 20 years old. It blows my mind that we're seeing this from him. And yes, it was nice to see the trash talk last night.

Yep. One other stateline and one other outcome from last night. Yokic with the 47, which any other time, you know, now we get so used to these monster scoring nights and guys having 47s and 50s on kind of a regular that it's not as big a deal as it used to be because of the scoring in the league. But 47 is a massive number for a center. And so he gets the 47 against Atlanta. And then we mentioned Markell Fultz's great night last night.

The defeat that they handed out was to the nets who are just spiraling, Kev. Spiraling. Yes. I mean, that's six in a row now. and you look at what it's done to them in those standings, and now you've got the Kyrie stuff. You wanted some clarity on this a couple of weeks ago. Now it's like he took a cortisone shot,

and maybe he's going to have surgery, and what a debacle. Yeah, and with Kyrie, he's a guy who has always had injuries. This is a weird one and a worrisome one, but he seems to be a guy that we've talked so much about him over the years as a guy who is obviously a champion, who has performed at the highest level against the best defenses on the biggest stage. And he at his peak as an unbelievable player.

But he's also suffered injuries over the course of his career that has limited his total peak. And right now, it's kind of scary. It is scary to see him playing only 11 games for the Nets. And what should be, yes, it's a gap year before Katie gets back. But you still would have liked to have seen positive development around Kyrie before the arrival of Katie, a guy who can fit into this system. But they're not getting that. And this team is spiraling, as you said.

And for Kyrie, I thought this was an opportunity for him to maybe develop as a leader off the court. With Boston, it didn't go well. With Brooklyn, he hasn't even had the opportunity. And that sucks for the Nets. It sucks because now, next season, if Kyrie does continue to miss time, if he theoretically misses the rest of the year, you have to install two new guys into the system because Kyrie hasn't had the opportunity this year to get settled in.

And that makes things that much more difficult in what would be year one with KD. Yeah, and it's sneaky because I don't know if people necessarily, the thing that befeld say like somebody like Anthony Davis, right, when people say, oh, Anthony Davis, he's injured again or whatever, right? People don't say that about Karee, but I'll be damned, Kev. You know, he missed his college year at Duke. And then you look at these game totals, 51, 59, 71, 75. So that was 13 and 14 and 14 and 15 played a lot of games. The next year, 53. The next year, 72.

So that was a good year. And then the two Boston year, 60 and then 67. And then this year 11. I mean, he's only played 70 games. What, three times? Well, and that doesn't even factor in, though, getting hurt in the playoffs either. Oh, that's right. The year Cleveland went to the finals when Love and Irving were out.

And then with Boston during one of their playoff, when Kairi was out and they still took Cleveland to seven games. I mean, this will be at least his fourth season where he's played less than 60 games, and it'll be fifth where he's played 60 or fewer. It's half his career, for God's sakes. Yeah. Where he's played less than 60 games. And you know what?

Like, people don't think about that. Do you, I don't think that he carries the injury thing like some of the other guys that we have seen in the past. which is interesting to think about moving forward because you have Kevin Durant coming back from a ruptured Achilles, a injury that across sports has ruined careers or shortened the prime or the length of a player's career. And then you have Kyrie who also has had injury issues for Brooklyn. You sign those guys any chance you can get. You sign Katie and Kyrie any opportunity you get. However, it's scary still because now the stakes are real for Sharmax in the front of. office for Kenny Atkinson and the coaching staff.

You aren't just a fun young team with a great locker room that's competing and exceeding expectations and, you know, making noise in the playoffs. Now you're a team with championship expectations, but you're also a team that has two potentially injury prone players with Kevin Durant coming back from that. And then Kyrie, who's always suffered injuries. It's scary for this team with taking a risk that any franchise would take. But now you have these two guys who you don't. know what their health is going to look like moving forward.

And also that we've touched on and everybody knows about also the locker room aspect, too, with both those guys who are moody. And I'm going to tell you this, Kev, this is, this is the great benefit. And I know they made their decision together. And they made their decision in unison to go to Brooklyn. I mean, could you imagine if this crap was going on and they had gone to the Knicks? Oh, my God. I mean, it is.

Holy mackerel. I mean, this is the benefit of them choosing Brooklyn. You're right. Because it is so far down. I mean, what happens with the Nets is just so insignificant compared to what happens with the Nix. But God bless. Imagine if they would have chosen the Nix

and this is what's going on. With Karee, I mean, my God, it would have been unbelievable. And people often, you know, make fun of the Nets or the clippers for being, you know, the little brother to the Lakers and the Knicks. However, it's not a bad thing. No, it's a great benefit when it comes to media coverage. No kidding.

And that can be an important part of keeping a locker room tight, like ignoring the noise because there's not as much noise to ignore. So it's a good thing for Brooklyn. It can be a good thing for the clippers of something like this were to ever come up when they're trying to compete for championships. And in a way, you could say like, Kauai's numbers being down, missing games, load management. It would be a much bigger story if he were on the Lakers than

he is on the Clippers and it's a good thing that it's not for that franchise. Just like it is for the Nets. Well, look, and speaking of the Clippers, I mean, you saw it on Saturday. They were getting booed on their home court and Montrez Herald after the game says some very disturbing things about their

locker room and what's going on. It's like, it just goes away. It just goes away. Right? If that happened to the Lakers, oh my God, it would be unbelievable. Hey, Isaac, by the way, what were you doing on Saturday. Hope you went. I did not go, no. Oh, what a shame.

I love the Grizz, but, uh... It was great to watch. It really was. What was it? 12.30? Was the start time? The Grizzies scored 140 points. I mean, I still can't believe that happened on a day game in L.A. I mean, I can kind of

believe it happened on a day game in L.A. Like, come on, 12.30? No. No. Young teams, look, let this be a lesson to everybody out there. It's not always young teams. Sometimes it happens as a veteran teams. If you play a day game in Miami, Atlanta, New York, or L.A.

Chalk it up. You've lost. And Toronto many times, too. Yes. Oh, God. Yes. I would feel like it would be the opposite. No, those are the going out cities. Well, that's the thing, but young guys can go out and then their bodies can bounce back. The Grizzlies are of the benefit that their guys can't, they're not even old enough to get into places. Oh, my God. Right. You know what I mean?

Their best players are not old enough to get into places. And a lot of their veteran guys are just kind of stay in the hotel and play video game guys. But I still can't believe that they put 140 on the Clippers. All right, Kev, so at the beginning of the season, we gave overreactions. And now we are about midway through the season, and we've got more overreactions. I know one of yours deals with the subject that we covered a little bit earlier on the show. so I'm going to let you start with that and then play off it. And then I'm going to hope that we don't overlap on any of these.

But we each have three mid-season overreactions. Give me your first one. Luca Dantritch has a chance to be on the NBA's Mount Rushmore by the time his career is over. Mount Rushmore, you can argue the four guys on there. I would say in no order, it's LeBron, Michael Jordan, Kareem, and Bill Russell. Those four are probably the four greatest players of all time in my opinion. I think by the time Lucas career is over, there's a chance. We had Jerry West allude to this the other day saying that

Luca will be better than Dirk Novitsky. Oh my gosh. I mean, like Jerry West said that. So I'm not sure this is really an overreaction, but I think it is considering the fact we're talking about a 20 year old player. But the fact is is what he's doing now. And you think about what he can still be as he continues to improve. over time, continuing to improve his body, getting more and more and enhanced as a creator

against elite defenders, the way he's going to develop like we've seen other great players get better over time. Luca is a worker and a guy who has already mastered so many areas of his crafted age 20. What will he be at 26, 27, 28? If he continues this over the course of his career, undoubtedly he has a chance to be. one of the greatest players ever. But he could be one of those guys who's a top four, top ten all-time guy. That is a very good overreaction.

I'm very impressed. And unfortunately, it has now made my first one less of an overreaction. Because what the hell? Is that a fire alarm? Yes. All right, it just went off. Oh, what the hell? God.

The cursed episode. Yeah. Is this real life? That's hilarious. What? I mean, for fuck sake, turn it all. We get to keep this part of the pot in there. This is funny.

This is funny. What is happening here? I just want to say to the listeners, Chris just went to go change the batteries on his task camera recorder because they were running out and we wanted to be safe. And now there's a fire alarm. It's a good. Dastrophies.

Oh my goodness. And the reason I couldn't use my studio, I'm in a different place than I usually am to do this show. The reason I couldn't use my series is because a wrestler was in there. What? Cody Rhodes. He was in the studio. Somebody was recording with him. So I couldn't use my studio.

All right. I think we're okay now. Okay. That's great. I'm going to keep this in. That's hilarious. All right. My overreaction, which was hurt because of your.

overreaction is that this guy in Atlanta, Travis Slink, that everybody was a fan of, this guy is so lost. And what are you talking about? You just told me he traded a guy that's going to be on the damn Mount Rushmore. All I said was, I didn't say no. I said, whoa. This guy, you just told me he traded a guy that's going to be on the Mount Rushmore. All right. This guy, everything, Luca for Trey Young and then Cam Reddish, the Evan Turner, Dernard.

deal's a disaster. Omari Spellman, who like looked like a nothing and gained like 40 pounds last year and got all upset with himself, now looks like a real player, player of the Warriors. You've got the whole deal that took place for D'Andre Hunter, where they gave up Jackson Hayes, Nikiel Alexander Walker, Marcus Silva, and then a conditional, another first round pick. And they got D'Andre Hunter, Solomon Hill, who they flipped for Chandler Parsons. and a second rounder, and even, like, losing Dwayne Deadman hurt. And Trey Young's already, like, super pissed off, and they have no, like, veterans of the voice. And he's already, like, he just had a conference call with the owners, whatever, and

said, you know, he made a bunch of mistakes in the offseason and whatever. And it's like, holy mackerel. I think the guy, you know, everybody hires people from successful places. And he came from Golden State, and everybody had very high praise for him. And he's known for his talent evaluation because of, you know, of, I guess, pegging Dremont Green once upon a time. But look, I mean, in fairness, I wrote an article saying the Grizzly should take Draymond Green with the 25th pick.

So, I mean, like, pegging Dremont Green is not exactly, you know, that doesn't qualify me to be a GM for somebody. But, I mean, this is a mess. It's a mess. And you just told me that he just traded a guy that's going to be on the damn Mount Rushmore. And that's like two drafts in a row that just look bad. I mean, you do this so that you get high draft picks and you have all these assets. And I know they have all this money to spend.

Who the hell is going to want to go play there? And now they're talking about trading for Andre Drummond? Are you kidding me? Yeah, Andre Drummond and Trey Young, put them together, see if you can give up 180 points a game. That'd be your center point guard combo. Just everything seems clueless there. My only wish for Trey Young's career is that at some point, We collectively as media and fans can detach Atlanta's decision from Trey Young, the player.

Because Trey Young did not make that choice to be traded or drafted by anybody. He just declared for the draft and that's it. And from there, like it was out of his hands. Trey Young himself as a really great young player and it sucks that he's attached to a guy like Luca who could go down. It's one of the all-time greats. And maybe Trey could too. You never know, right? You never know.

He could. but Luca is a guy who just has higher higher upside. He's a better player period. He just says, that's just the reality of it no matter how great Trey Young somebody is. And DeAndre Hunter better end up being awesome because look at all those assets they gave up to get in.

Sure. But to your point, what you're hitting on is what I wish the conversation will be more moving forward about the front office, about ownership, and the decisions that they make. They're the ones who made that choice. And it was a calculated risk. And in some ways it's working, because Trey is so

good already. Let's not underrate who he is as a player as a magnificent passer. It's just 21 years old and a guy who is scoring the hell out of the ball as well has improved drastically as an at-room finisher. Tray Young's really good. And I want to make sure that we're not diminishing what he has become in year one to year two as a player and what he could still someday be. But for the front office, they've made some mistakes. And for them moving forward, I hope that the reported interest in Andre Drummond is not ownership saying we need to do this now. We need to make a push. Because Tray Young said he needs help.

Yes, exactly. I think if you're Travis Slank and you're that front office, Drummond is not the right move. And it would be a short-sighted move to do that, which is exactly what gets you in trouble later. But it could very well be ownership, and I believe that it could be ownership that is behind that push. And that sucks for the front office.

Well, this is what, and look, again, these are overreactions. but I feel, I listened to this guy doing an interview, I believe it was this Adrian, and he was great. I was thinking to myself like, God, if I was a Hawks fan, I'd feel great about this. He is such a good speaker. Travis is good.

He's a great talker, but these moves over and over again just absolutely suck. And I cannot take the talker and distance him from, I don't know. I feel bamboozled by listening to him. Like, man, this guy sounds like he's really got it together and really knows what he's doing.

And then I look at this, what this franchise looks like right now in the moves that he's made. And it's like, this kind of know what he's doing. This is goofy. So anyway, that's the first overreaction for me.

Your second one. My second one. You'll like this one. This one will make you happy. And it relates to something you just mentioned about a player who was pegged in a prior draft. Brennan Clark will be a Dramon Green level steel. Whoa.

How about that one, Chris? Dremont Green. Come on. now. Do you think he could be the third best player on a title team? Well, think about what he is right now. Brandon Clark right now as a rookie, as an elite score and lobs in the pick and roll, right? He is a guy who sets good, strong screens as a rookie, finishes with finesse and touch around the rim and also with power.

He's a developing into a very reliable three-point shooter, 43% on a low volume this year from three. He's elite at attacking closeouts already. He can shoot floaters. and an elite rate, he is a good at-room finisher as well. He is a nimble ball handler too. And as a rookie, he's a superb defender. Still need to get better over time, of course, like any rookie does. But think about what makes Jremont great. He's a guy who is a floor raiser with his defensive versatility. He backs up Clay Thompson and Stefan Curry. With his offense, he is a playmaker who can bring the ball up the floor and create for Steph in Clay. He's a guy who at least is a moderate

floor spacer at the center position. He raises what Steph and Clay are as the star go-to players with Brennan Clark, if Jaron Jackson and John Morant keep getting better, Clark is exactly what you want next to those two guys. I think Clark is that floor razor next to Jaron Jackson and John Moran because of his skills and what he's really good at on both ends of the floor. Wow. Look, I love Brandon. But, I mean, this is. This is an overreaction. I mean, Tramont Green, to me, has been wildly underrated. This guy, like, people forget that the game seven, the Cleveland won,

that guy had like a 30-point triple double. Yeah. When it mattered, the whole season's on the line. And he played the best you, I mean, he had nine in one of the categories, either assist or rebounds. But, I mean, he was out of his mind great when it mattered. The highest leverage game you could feasibly be in, was amazing.

And jeez, I mean, that's high praise. Are you telling me, though, that five years from now, Brennan Clark, you know, he's 28 years old and the Grizzlies are competing deep in the playoffs. You're telling me that you can't see a world in which Brennan Clark has game one, game two, where he's like five point seven rebounds, two assists, but he makes a big impact.

But then game three, it happens to be a game where they're doubling John Morant. off the pick and roll. They're trapping him. And then Clark is the guy who needs to make a play and he's feasting. Oh, I think you can see that. But, I mean,

Dremont is a, like, a fantastic ball handler and a great, great passer. Like, he does everything. They're different players. Like, I'm not comparing Clark to Green. I'm just saying that with the fit that he has with Jaron Jackson

and John Moran, I think he enhances those guys because he compliments them so well. Lord knows. I hope you're right. I love Rain and Clark. I know you did. If you're a listener of the show, if this is your first time listening to the show,

there's probably been four or five shows this season. Going back to the draft where I've been like, Brennan Clark is the guy. And I feel like we are seeing him develop into that because of what, look, Jaron Jackson with the strides he's been making after a slow start this season, encouraging, John Morant blossoming into a young star already.

Clark complements those guys perfectly. And the Grizzlies have one of the best young cords in the league right next to the New Orleans. in my opinion. All right. My second overreaction. And this, I don't feel great about this. Okay.

But I wrote it down because it was an overreaction, okay? The Bulls make the playoffs. Oh, wow. They have lost four games in a row. So this is the absolute worst time to do it. It's the worst time for me to say this. But you look at the teams that are in front of them. You got Brooklyn who's spiraling out of control.

And you got Charlotte. Charlotte's awful. Okay. I'd take Chicago's roster. 20 times over before I'd take Charlott's. So I think I believe in that roster more so. Okay? You look behind them.

Detroit, Wizards, Cleveland, Knicks, Hawks. So not only are the, you should be able to get a good share of wins against those teams, those teams aren't in it. Those things aren't in it. So you're only in it. And if I think Charlotte's going to fall back, then you're really only in it. You're only fighting with Brooklyn and then Orlando. Like there's six for sure that are making it. The Bucks, the Celtics, the heat.

the Raptors, the Sixers, the Pacers. Seven and eight, I think Orlando can make it, but I think there's a world where Chicago makes it and Brooklyn does not. Therefore, I say Chicago makes it. After you went through that, it feels less crazy than I initially thought. Yeah, I mean, there's only a couple teams

that even have a chance at it, right? And if we had the play-in tournament, Orlando and Brooklyn would face Charlotte and Chicago. That would be fun. Chicago's got a lot of real players on their team. You watch them, when they put it together, they're better than some of these other teams. Like, I just saw the Hornets in person. And I turned to the guy next man.

I said, how the hell have they won 13 games? How? Like, it boggles my mind. I know Deontay Graham's had a great season so far. But, I mean, like that Bulls team, they got Levine marketing now, who we said has gotten a lot better recently. Wendell Carter, Kobe White, you know,

you think the second half of the year could be better, get Otto Porter back, Satteransky, Darius Young's a real guy. Like, I don't know. They got all these real players

on that team. All right. Your third one. So I'm changing this on the fly because of what I just mentioned. I just said Orlando versus Chicago and Brooklyn versus Charlotte

would be fun. It would be fun for hardcore NBA fans. It would be fun for fans who care to listen to a podcast about it. Thank you for listening to us. And then you look in the West.

OKC right now, it would be facing Portland. San Antonio will be facing Memphis in the playoff, play in tournament. Hardcore fans, I think would enjoy that. But what I don't think would enjoy that is a casual fan. I don't think they would care.

And I've thought a lot about the playoff plan tournament. And I'm not sure it's enough. Like watching the NFL playoffs and just the thrill of the wild card round, when you think about the week 16 and 17 implications, with teams fighting for a buy. I think about the agony I felt when the Patriots lost, the dolphins losing the buy, and who knows what could have happened?

And then they lose in the wild card around. I think of all that, and I'm like, in the NBA, I kind of wish maybe that there's some sort of buy for more teams from that playoff playing around. Because I got emailed an idea months ago when this first came up. What if you had the top four C? is my overreaction in a one-liner. The current seven to 10 playoff playoff tournament proposed is not enough.

We need to go to one to four get a buy. And then five, six, seven, eight are all in a one-game playoff against nine, ten, 11, 12. And five to eight get to choose their opponent from nine to twelve. No way. No, because that is so unfair to the team that is five versus the team that is 12. Why? Because 12 you can have a rat team and be 12th.

Look at the Eastern Conference right now. The Sixers of the five, they can choose to pick Washington in the one-game playoff if they want to. Who wants to see that? What I'm saying is it makes the regular season more interesting. You have the top four teams. They are automatically in the real playoffs. They don't have to play in a playoff tournament.

It makes fighting for a top four seed that much more important. You got teams right now. It makes Philadelphia getting the first. four seed that much more important. It makes Indiana getting that four seed that much more important. It makes it a fight in the east, right? It makes it a fight in the West. We're getting that top four seed is critical because you don't, you don't play in that one game playoff. You don't play in that wild card round, right? But then you also have the potential on the inverse of that in the West. Where right now, if the 12 seed Phoenix, right, let's say Golden State, Seth Curry comes back in late

February, early March. But you can't have a one-off, Kevin. They can't have a one-off. But it gives those teams a shot to get into it. It keeps more fans invested over the course of the season. It increases the implications of the regular season. 10 is enough. Maybe it is, but I don't know if it's enough. I don't know if it's enough.

I don't know. For God's sake, there will be five teams in your conference that don't make it once we go to 10. You can be right. You can be right because then I'm having 24 teams. I mean, but really, it's not. Are you kidding me? Holy crap. I mean, look, they set this alarm off because your idea stinks.

That's what it was. Well, I mean, it happens. Hey, why don't we just put the whole damn league in the playoffs, Cap? They set off a damn fire alarm. They said enough with that podcast. Take alert. Yeah. That was an unplanned overreaction.

It was an overreaction to something I had just said during the podcast. Do you want to briefly hear my real one, which is kind of weak? I'm not sure it's an overreaction at all. It can't be worse than that one. It's that with Oklahoma City for years. have been saying Russell Westbrook needs to allow Billy Donovan to install his system.

And now that Westbrook has gone, we are finally seeing that system from Billy Donovan. And he is a great coach. We're seeing the three-guard lineups with Shegildes-Alexander, Dennis Schrooter. We're seeing three-guard lineups with Chris Paul.

Chris Paul is at point-garde sacrificing. A guy who for years, people, you know, he dominates the ball and he runs the offense. but now I got the phone ringing in the background. And then for you... It's Billy Donovan saying thank you. Actually, it's Russell Westbrook saying,

I knew you'd find a way to shit on me in this podcast. But the point is that my overreaction is that I was right. Billy Donovan is a great coach. And it's really cool to see him doing that. And it was Russell Westbrook's fault the whole time. And that felt like a really weak overreaction. So I'm like, you know what? Screw it.

All right. My last one. First round picks are going to be a lower asset than they have been in a long time. Yeah. But beyond that, the best player in the upcoming draft will not be drafted in the top five. Ah. So in other words, is this the worst draft since 2013? But that's a year where Janus is the best player in the drafts.

Yes. I think it's like that because you look, look, I'm in the same town as Wiseman. great kid, great player. It's too hard for your big man to be your best guy anymore. It's really hard. We're about to see if Yoke at Chambide, if those guys can do it. But I don't think he's that level of talent. And even with that level of talent, it's hard when your best guy's a big guy.

So you got him. I saw Anthony Edwards on Saturday, Kevin. If you wouldn't have told me that he's supposed to go in the top five, I wouldn't have seen it. And I've seen a bunch of these college guys over the last several years. I saw Lonzo in person. I saw Fox in person. I saw even like Malik Monk in person. I saw Buddy Healed in person.

I've seen a lot of draft picks over these last four or five years in person. And they, you know, you see them and they just look different than everybody else. He did not. And so I'm going to give it a chance. I got to see him in the SEC tournament and, you know, more high leverage stuff as the year goes on. But I didn't see it. Lamello, he's over in Australia and he's hurt right now. Cole Anthony's been hurt.

you know, R.J. Hampton, I saw him in person earlier this year, and it wasn't like, holy shit, you got to take this guy. So I'm just thinking that this is going to be one of those years. That's what I think. I think it's going to be one of those years where you don't have to be at the top of this draft to get the best guy because I think what the consensus best guys are, there are none of them that I feel crazy confident about. I think that is exactly the way I feel. and I think about a guy like Tyrese Halliburton from Iowa State,

who's just a rock solid player, who is a high IQ player, smart passer, improved as a score off the dribble in his sophomore season with Iowa State. I look at someone like him, and he has risen up rankings that I've looked at. It seems like scouts I've talked to are raising him up their boards too, but he's still somebody who's probably not going to go above some of these younger, higher-upside players,

even though he's only going to be 20 as a rookie, Halliburton somebody that we're going to look back at years from now when the draft hasn't even happened and be like, oh, how'd he fall to eight? How'd he fall to nine? Sort of like I see Jay McCollum, who was a senior in the 2013 draft fell to 10 behind some younger freshman and sophomores who had theoretical higher upside, but it ended up not. This is that type of draft like 2013 where there's going to be some good players who were drafted, there's going to be some good role players and there's going to be some

surprise stars like any year in the drafts. But the top of this draft is not good. look at us agreeing at the end. We fought through major adversity today on this show, and I'm very proud of that. Isaac, you fought through the adversity with us. We had you come back to the show and look what we did. We made it just an absolute debacle for you. We've had smooth shows.

And Isaac comes back and it's just an absolute disaster. Maybe I'm the curse. Well, I mean, look. It is a hell of a coincidence. Oh. Okay. All right. Thanks to everybody for listening to another episode of The Mismatch.

If you dig what you're hearing. Go give us a rating and review on iTunes. Five stars. Five stars. It really helps. Kevin, I will talk to you on Friday. Thanks, Isaac. See you guys.