The Ringer NBA Show - Thoughts on NBA Viewership, the Art of a Trade Request, and the Impact of the 65-Game Rule in the Awards Race | Real Ones

Episode Date: December 27, 2024

Howard and Raja are joined by three-time NBA champion Danny Green. They recorded before the Sacramento Kings fired Mike Brown so they started with talking about whether they have any concerns about the viewership in the NBA after an exciting Christmas Day slate (7:03). Then they discuss the trade rumors around De’Aaron Fox and Jimmy Butler and how that impacts their team (37:15). Later, they wrap up with Luka Doncic's injury and how it adds to the list of guys that will potentially be ineligible for post season awards (53:13). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Howard Beck and Raja Bell Guest: Danny Green Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's happening? It's Todd McShay and I'm back with a new home and a new show at the Ringer and Spotify. The McShay Show. It's a video and audio podcast coming to you year round with all my NFL draft information, big boards, mock drafts and player movement. Plus, I'll be chatting with some of my best friends in football, including some of your favorite football analysts. During the week, we'll have episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays that'll include discussions about my player rankings, who's rising, who's falling, and who your NFL team should be keeping an eye on. Plus, we'll be reacting each week to the college football playoff polls and giving you previews and picks for each Saturday slate. In addition, I'll have episodes on Saturday nights

with my immediate reaction to the full day in college football every week. So if you love the college game, the NFL, the draft, or all of it like me, make sure to like, follow, subscribe, and get ready for the McShay show on the ringer, Spotify, and wherever you watch or listen to podcasts. Up, it's the real ones. Now we're back to senior writer at The Ringer. He is Raja Bell. We are really pleased to be joined today by a three-time NBA champion. Now an analyst for ESPN, Turner, Fanduel, and other places.

Oh, and he has a career record of 1-0 versus Rajabelle. He is Danny Green. Did not know that. Congratulations, Danny. Thanks, man. I had to go deep, deep, deep into the. Stadhead Archives to find this. I thought, did you guys even overlap?

In fact, you did briefly. And on December 31st, 2011, Danny Green's San Antonio Spurs beat Raja Bell's Utah Jazz. 104 to 89. Rajowitz scoreless in 17 minutes as a starter, 0 for three. Danny scored four points in nine minutes off the bench.

Coming off the bench at the same time as one Kauai Leonard, in fact. Yeah, that was the early days when I was barely playing. But yeah, we didn't overlap much. remember as a kid, the stories of Raja coming into the LA fitness and cooking everybody was always a thing. Oh, yeah. On Long Island, Farmingdale. Yeah, Farmingdale. Yeah. It's right around a corner from my house. Oh, Roger Bell was in here. And I'm like, get the, no way. You know, like, you come in and he went to work. Yeah, he works out of here all the time. And I'm like, I never see him. But, you know. Roger, you were a Long Island, L.A. Fitness legend?

Yeah, that's crazy. My wife's family's from up that way in Melville. And I would be in that Farmerdale, LA Fitness all the time, just getting some bump. You know what? It's just small world stuff, man. Like Danny, we were talking before the pod. Like I got boys that are kind of in those formative, like athletic years and stuff. And you just, you never know, right? Like they're at park sometimes and they run into like a pro that's out there throwing

to football or doing some shit. And you never know who you're interacting with and who they will be one day, you know? Exactly. And it's also like if you go somewhere one time, people like, oh, he's a little time. You've been there. You know, so like, you go in there three or four times. So I'm like, yeah, there's no way he's here all the time. But yeah, it was, it's crazy.

Seeing certain guys, like him, Wally, certain guys come through and you're like, you hear about them and get a chance to actually meet them and play against them when you're older. It's an unbelievable, like full circle moment. It's kind of crazy. I didn't ask either of you beforehand about this, but I'm always curious, like, you know, when we bring on other former players. So that's why I was looking it up. Like, oh, what was the overlap?

Because generationally, you guys are a little separated. So did you guys, aside from the Long Island pseudo connection, like, is there any, did you guys cross paths at all in any capacity over the course of your careers? No, never played together. No, never played for maybe in 60-degree separation, of course, there's like probably coaches, teammates, but no, we never played again. Said I don't even remember that game. Me playing nine minutes instead of coming off the bench of the life of role player back then. It's still very different now. But yeah, I don't remember even playing that game or playing against the much. I remember him watching him, watching him Garcove, watching him have those matchups

and being like, yo, he's a fearless dude. I would love to be, you know, that type of player one day. Same, same. I don't remember I was towards the end of my career. I was probably, like, who knows where my head was at in that game. I don't remember it. But most, like, all of my memories are watching him kind of, you know, do what he did with the Spurs and then go on to do whatever else he went.

So. represent Long Island's the best I could. You know? That's what I. No, you did it well. That was also, by the way, that that game that you guys played against each other, that was the lockout season. So that was December 31st, 2011.

So the season had just started like less than a week before, I think, after the lockout. So that was, that was off. Raja, you were starting alongside Devin Harris, Paul Millsap, Gordon Hayward, and Al Jefferson. That must have been a game where we won pretty handedly because I was not, I barely made the team there. Wait, are you sure that was lockout or was that the next year? If they were starting Devin and Gordon, that was probably the next year, maybe not the lockout. It was, that's lockout year.

Yeah, December 20. So the lockout happened end of 2010 and then got back right in Christmas time, right around that time, December. Yeah. It was when it opened back up, December 2011, I believe, yeah, because that was my second year. First starting lineup that day, Tim Duncan, Mounted Genobley, Tony Parker. Richard Jefferson and DeWan Blair, the guy who had no ACLs. Am I miss it? Wait a minute. Hold on. Hold on. We came back in December of 2010. No. That was 2011. No. 2011.

So my, hold on. Let me, so my rookie year was 2009-10. It was my rookie year. The following year, I was cut from Cleveland. So that year, and I end up with the Spurs, the end of that year, 2011, where we lost to Memphis. Manu had dislocated his elbow or something. So the lockout happened that summer of 2011. So yeah, I was playing overseas and came back from overseas 2011 December. And that's when we started back up. Crazy pills, bro. It seems like yesterday, but it's damned it was 15 years ago.

I can't even remember what happened three days ago, don't. I don't remember that. Like, I can't come on me. Here's the wild thing when you start diving into old box scores too. So as I mentioned, Danny and Kauai Leonard are both coming off the bench that day for the spurs. Also coming off the bench, T.J. Ford, I have no. recollection of T.J. Ford's Spurs for a short, brief moment before he retired. He had a lot of injuries with the neck and back. But that was Kauai's rookie year. So yeah, me and him were coming

up to bet, like trying to prove ourselves. We barely played. So we must have won that game pretty handily for me to get subbed in. Well, with our lineup, with the lineup you just mentioned, Howard, at that point, yeah, you would have beaten the brakes off of plus. Not Raj's fault, I think it's the lesson here. Yeah, of course not. Guys, I want to dive into a bunch of different things, including just like the art of the trade request slash demand and how this is handled because we've got a Jimmy Butler situation and there's maybe kind of a simmering deer and Fox situation. And then Michael Porter Jr. talked about being in trade rumor. So there's a lot of just that in the ether right now because it's late December and this is what we do in the NBA when we move into trade season and it's unsettling. So I want to talk to you guys about that because you've experienced it in various ways in your own.

careers. And I want to get into some other stuff about the 65 game rule for awards and stuff because Bobby Marks had a really interesting tweet the other day. Before we get into all that, some quick show notes. Our last show of the calendar year will be this Tuesday, New Year's Eve. Yes, we are working on New Year's Eve. We are. You, the audience. Okay. Okay. We are. Raj. Okay. Good. Good to know. Clear the books, Raj. We will have two shows next week, our normal schedule. In the following week, the following week, is very special. The following week, first week of first full week in January will mark the long-awaited,

much anticipated, sure to be exhilarating, uplifting even return of Mr. Logan Murdoch to the show. I think Raj and I will devote the entire thing to just like advice on diaper changing and sleep for him probably. Yeah, for sure. I'm going to tune into that one. Danny, our guy, Logan, is a first time father. He's been on paternity. Yeah, I'm in that early stage. I said he's 16 months, but yeah, I'm going to be. I'm going to tune into that. I'm planning on having more. So we'll see. I'm going to definitely listen to that one. It'll be good. So that's the show notes out of the way. The other thing I

wanted to just hit real quick, because we are taping this on Friday morning, Friday afternoon-ish, a day after we got the ratings results for Christmas Day. Ratings were great for the NBA, best in five years. It now tamped down the, what are, they were off by 18, 19 percent, and now it's down to only like 4%. So things look a little different. I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole because it's been done to death. But I'm curious for the two of you as former players, as analysts, who have lived the game, watched the game, experienced the game.

Your quick thoughts on just our ratings discourse and the way it bleeds into, of course, state of the game discourse. Like, do either of you hear any of this and think, oh man, the NBA's in trouble here? We're back to like, you know, post-jordan period or we're going through another one of these. Do either of you have any concerns about state of the game slash viewership? A little bit, a little bit. But I just think it's just a moment, a phase that will eventually, you know, figure itself out.

That's what I'm hoping for anyway. But I've talked about this on my pod inside the green room with Danny Green and on multiple pods, like things that need to be changed or things going to be looked at. I love that the ratings were up for Christmas, which was great. You know, it were good games. Obviously, the game is unpredictable. And just to show the results, it's like nobody expected Boston and losing Boston, Dallas lose at home, Denver lose after they just beat Phoenix about 27, two days prior. I was one-foot-four in predictions, by the way.

So I did terrible. You're a gambling, man, you shouldn't have followed my lead on that day. But, you know, it was passion. You know, the thing the game is missing, I think what was slowing it down for me, the ratings, it made boring is the free throws, you know, guys are foul baiting. You got to find a way to get the flopping out of the game, the foul baiting out of the game. And something we can learn from the G League. I know it's not ideal, but the one for two free throw until the last two minutes, it might not be a bad idea. I do love the fact that they're trying out, you know, guys are getting a free shot under three seconds, the half court heaves or three.

So because a lot of guys care about the percentages, but there's things the G League is trying out that can work on the next level with the one free throw. That's how you do. And ultimately, the biggest issue is players are not allowed to show emotion the way they were used to back in the day. Referees calling technicals for small things. It's flagrant.

The game is different from when I first came in. I'm sure it's very different from Rajah came in. I'm sure you don't recognize it at this point. It's a lot of threes and a lot of free throws. but yes, letting guys play. Obviously, you know, certain plays are non-basket plays, called the flagrants and technicals. But when guys show emotion,

you cannot call technicals for little things like that. When there's a good, hard foul play on the play, on the ball, you'll let it play. We're reviewing too many things. We're stopping the game for too many things and not allowing it to be competitive and passionate. And, you know, guys are manipulating the game with, you know,

figuring out how to draw. fouls instead of just playing basketball. So I think if you change those things, get rid of some of those things, speed that, like said, stop the free throws as much because it can't get boring, watch the cup game. Also change locations for certain things. You know, because I'm tired of watching Summer League in Vegas every year or even going to Vegas for some place. You know, put it in a city where teams, there used to be teams or teams that are up

and coming or teams that are trying to get a team, like expansion cities, whether There's Vancouver, Seattle, you know, Nashville, you know, put Summer League in those games or do a cup game in that city instead of Vegas every year. You know, the energy would be different, you know. So a couple little small changes, but yes, I think it's a lull right now. I hope it doesn't go trend in that direction. I think it's just a phase right now. But there's things that I'm sure Adam Silver will address and change to make it better. But Christmas was a good day, and, you know, a lot of people watched and the ratings were good for that day.

Yeah, I mean, I tend to agree with the overall. Like, I'm not super concerned about it. I think they're, you know, like anything, they're kind of ebbs and flows to viewership. And you could just be in an ab right now or a flow, whichever way you want to look at it. Like, I'm not overall worried about the health of the game. The mechanics of it, that's interesting, Danny. I hadn't thought of the, you know, trying to incorporate some of the G-League stuff. Like, I'll leave the mechanics of the actual game alone and the rules and stuff.

Let me, I'll just speak to the style of play. Like, and it's going to come off. off kind of like old crumagine guy, get off my porch, but I don't mean it. Because I really can appreciate some of it. But generally speaking, you know, like I was flipping around last night and I was watching, who did I tap into real quick?

It was Memphis. Who were they playing? Memphis, Toronto. Yeah, it was Memphis, Toronto. And it was just, like, it wasn't bad basketball. There was some good stuff, but it was just attract me. It looked like a pickup game. Pickup game.

Most of the games are looking like pickup games. And that was hard for me to, to stomach. Like I was there for a few reasons, so I was watching. But like, I found myself sitting there with my middle boy like, Jesus, bro. There's, this is just going up and down and there's really nothing to it. And I think the league is in a place where you have, you know, some fans that have been reared on this type of basketball.

And like, that's what they want to see. But then you've got a whole population of people out there that are like, yo, we don't really love that. Like, and we're not going to tune into that every night. I don't want to see 53s every night. There's a big part of the fan base that are old school fans, like fans. You know, they used to watch and set, like they want to see some good act, set players, have court set, you know, get into some instead of every playdown, it's a delay or a transition three.

It's like, that's just not good basketball to watch for, I guess, the ones that are said, they've been watching for a long time. The younger kids, yeah, the younger generation loves that. They love the speed. They love up and down. But yeah, I think a lot of us are missing, you know, the, like it doesn't seem like there's a mental side of it as much. We want to see the mind of the game broken down more. or seeing who can make reads,

who can change adjustments or on the fly, throw a good play in. It's like, oh, you'll see JJ after ATL. Oh, that's a great play. You'll see certain teams after a timeout. It's like, why can't we have that more incorporated throughout the game? You know, the people that actually play and actually coach it want to be able to see certain new things and take those things. Like, oh, I want to run that with my sixth graders.

You know, I want to be able to see something I can teach these young kids. When all they see is up and down and threes, it's hard to teach the fundamentals and, you know, the mental side of the game. That's a really good point. And like, I don't mean to say that every game is like that or every team plays like that. And I'm not like, I'm not casting a net on the whole NBA with that. But like, you can tune into certain games and be turned off by it, right? And so that could be an issue.

But I think that's a really good point, Danny, because, you know, I had a youth program and my boys were hooping and stuff. And, you know, so much of the fun for me is. the coach was was like watching the games, finding things that I thought might work, and then challenging my kids to like, hey man, you know that set I put in a few nights ago? Like, go home and watch Golden State. Like, you don't think it's shit, right?

Like you're 11 and you're telling me this sucks. But go watch Golden State and see how Clay just scored. And, you know, that, not that it doesn't exist at all, but it's becoming harder, right? Because a lot of times they tune in, and it's just up and down, I'm towing the three point line and it's going up in the air. And so, you know, those are just a few of the reasons for me personally,

why it can be hard to watch at times. And also the biggest thing thing is, is a lot of our stars are supposedly playing when they want to. But there's injuries. There's a lot of injuries and certain guys. But I think that'll come back around. There's a lot of guys that still love the game, they love to compete, and we'll put their body on the line. Well, not on the line, but they'll play through certain bumps and bruises.

You know, it's now, like today's NBA, a lot of the older guys look at them as soft because it's like, you know, and as we'll speak on later on, is the guys missing the 65 game mark, they're not able to get these awards. It's like, yo, back then, 65 games was not a lot to ask for. In today's world, it's a lot to ask for for these guys. And it's like, all right, do we give them a grace period? Do they play, if they play at least 60 or plus 60 plus games, we put them in contention for these awards? But it's like night and night out, certain arenas, certain teams, you don't know who's going to show up. You don't know who's going to be there. And a lot of my predictions were ruined because of the injury.

Boston, not having Drew and in Porzingis being out after that, Luca going down in the first, you know, first half of 60 minutes with a calf strain, it sucks. Obviously, he got really hurt. But, you know, certain teams, certain guys just sitting out and relaxing, you just, you don't never know why. and there's no clarity with the media from the team of what's actually going on with this player. You never know what's going to happen or what's going on with Joel. Even a team like Portland,

like a guy had his parlay and a big part of the world now is gambling, sports betting. One of the parlays was Jeremy Grant. Jeremy Grant, and he didn't even play. He was like, he's on a sideline in a hoodie, and he's like, damn, today's just not my day, you know? Everything hit, except for him because he didn't play that day.

You just never know. We don't even know what the reason was why he didn't play. I didn't look at it. but I'm sure it was some, they say an illness or they say an ankle injury. But a lot of the fans are losing interest because it's like, you know, the guys I'm wanting to see, I don't know if he's going to even play that day. I can't have booked a ticket for Christmas ahead of time if Philly's coming because I don't know if Joel is going to be there. You know, I don't know if Paul George is going to be, or Tyrese maxi.

Or if you're in Boston, I don't know if Porzingis or Drew Holiday or Jason, you know, so a lot of that takes part in it as well. Everybody always, when the ratings come up or when state of the game discussions come Everybody superimposes immediately whatever their own like beefs with the game are, right? So people who are really old school, it's like, ah, there's too many threes. You know, they need to post up more or whatever as if postups were like somehow exciting. Yeah. I enjoy a good post up, Howard.

It's fine. Like there's some great footwork on the post. For sure. I think it should come in with small doses. It also says it depends on who you're asking what our game is. Like for me, I'm biased toward defense. So I want to be able to see the defense have more rights. I don't mind threes.

I love the threes. Me too. Only certain teams, right? Like, if that's your personnel, you have the personnel to do it. Not every team should be shooting threes like that. But also, for me, it's like, I hate the foul baiting. I hate the flopping. It's because, like, you know, the defensive guy has no right in the space of the game.

And it's hard to play. These guys are already good. Now you've got them, you know, flopping or jumping backwards, some sideways, putting their arm, looking for arms. It's hard to play defense and stop this guy. It's them to make some impossible stop when they can do that as well. even though that is a skill, but I'm just not a fan of it. No, but that's the part that I think, like, things like that,

not only does it slow the game down, but yes, also it looks cheap and it's annoying, and it's annoying for fans. And even if you're a fan of that team, like, I get it. Houston Rockets fans didn't mind whatever James Hardin was doing during that period of time because it won them a lot of games. But it's not aesthetically great for the game. And the NBA has done a lot to try to legislate a lot of that out. There's still, you know, a certain amount of flopping and hook

and baiting and everything else. Even that last play last night, Deer and Fox absolutely just blew that last play against... But Jared and Ivy jumped sideways. He jumped sideways. But Deerrin Fox also like slapped down at him. Like there was, Deer & Fox was wrong a hundred ways defensively

in terms of the way he handled that. But Ivy, you could see, did, and the announcers called it out. Ivy did try to kind of angle toward him too. And again, all that stuff the NBA has tried to get rid of. I just think that the combination of all that, Danny, I'm with you on just players missing games. And sometimes we don't even know what for. I have been on a ramp, you know, a constant rant slash rampage for the last several years about

the lack of transparency from teams. Teams hide so much. They obfuscate their injuries. They don't report them accurately. You know, players have a lot of say in this, in fact. And the stars especially are keeping the team sometimes from being as transparent with the public as I think they should be. especially in an era of gambling, legalized gambling.

But that stuff to me is frustrating to me more than, like, oh, there's too many threes. Like, for sure, because at least they're playing the game. This is, and I think it's more so, and, you know, I think it's more teams trying to play the mental game with other teams. And it's like, I get that part of it. I understand from the gameless aspect people want to know. I just don't like it when it makes the organization. And the player, first and foremost, makes the player look bad. When you're not transparent with people, you're making him seem like he's soft or not playing for.

Like if something's really going on, for instance, Joel, you know, I know he's hurt, but them not telling people early in the season, he'd missed the start of the season. Like, oh, this is part of the plan. What part of the plan? He played this summer. Fans are like, what are you talking about? He played this summer. Why can't he start the season?

Say he has an injury. You know, he's going through this. Something's well, they came out later. but even with Clippers and not to knock either one of these teams I love Philly I've played with them

I played with the organization and maybe work with them at some point who knows and Clippers I've done some stuff behind and closed doors with them as well

so they're great but you know them and the playoff series every playoffs on Kauai's hurt they don't tell you what's wrong until after the series right it's like oh he tore his ACL

exactly but he just y'all just played seven games but they'll call him day to day for like three weeks and then it's like Oh, no, no, no, no, he's just done. He needs certain.

For the whole series, it's like, oh, he might play game five or six. So everybody's fans get gambling-wise. And everybody's excited. Like, oh, Kauai might play tonight. We might have a chance. But it's a serious injury. Make Kauai look bad when you don't say, you know, Kauai Tours A-CL from Jones. They need an IR system, kind of like football.

Like, they need, I mean, I don't have the, they need something where it becomes punitive, right? Like, so you can't, I mean, there'll be a couple baked-in rest periods. But let's say once you've reached four of those, like said players, you're, yeah, you're, you're now and I are, bro. He's not playing for five games. Like, and so we know he's not playing. Fans know he's not playing. Right. Yeah. But yeah, so that hurts the game. But yeah, man, it'll change. Hopefully it'll change.

I'll get back to it. But we have some young and upcoming stars. I like the faces of the league that are, that possibly the face of the league up and coming. And that'll carry the torch and keep the game where it needs to be. So I'm excited about that. This is a topic for another day, no longer discussion. But I do think, like, to the extent that the NBA is still really reliant on like they got bonkers ratings out of Steph versus LeBron. It was a phenomenal game and those guys are still like worth the price of admission every

time, right? I do worry some about and we do this all the time, right? We were hand-wringing after Jordan retired. We were hand-wringing at various other stages. LeBron and Steph are so singular, not just in their talent, but in their personalities and the, just the arc of their careers, they've been fascinating to watch. And the thing I worry about when those guys and Kevin Durant and, you know, Kauai, feels like is already retired, even though he's still technically on the clippers.

But like those four guys defined the league for the last 10 plus years, won the majority of championships, you know, LeBron, Steph, Kauai, KD combined. And this next generation, like we have a ton of talent, but like none of them have really caught yet, right? Like there's not a mass movement of fans who are like the Wembe fans now or the Anthony Edwards fans or and Wembe just got here. We got to give that time. but I don't at Shea yokic don't

Like we don't there's there's no um They just don't galvanize or polarized in the same way as this older generation And maybe that just takes time and maybe these guys need to go head to head to the finals I don't know what it's going to take I just feel like the drop off in terms of How compelling the younger stars are versus the forget talent for minute just as personalities or as stories Because that's what drives ratings and interest. ultimately. It's not just, you know, X's and O's. Like, I know people want to think that, but it's about personalities in this league. For sure. That matters. A combination of a couple of things when

you speak on it, it comes to mind for me. He said, I think a lot of people are used to the younger generation seeing guys team up. So they would love to see Aluka and Yokoish team up. I think the old school guys want to see them go head to head. But the fact that said they are great players, but they are foreigners. And, you know, not that great with the media. You know, Anthony Edwards is very personable, does funny interviews. Like Lamello, kids love him, he does funny.

So he shows his personality, shows his charisma, is just his character in the commercials that he does, social media. Some of these guys don't do them. So that's one factor. Also on the other side of it, the flip side of it, back in the day, these guys are idolized, but the guys way before us will idolize so much more

because we didn't have access to them like we do today. And a lot of people are saying in 10 years or so, there's not going to be any celebrity. You know what I'm saying? Because you have access to, you see them all the time. You see them everywhere at the click of a button. They're on every social media platform.

You can message them. They can message you. And obviously, it's different for certain people. But the celebrities back then were so much more put on a platform and idolized because you've got a chance to see it. It's like, damn, I never see my, I'm going to go see Michael Jordan. I want to go see so and so.

Even actors and actresses like that, now you see them out all the time. You see them doing crazy things. Some of them have their own platforms and podcasts where they're speaking on things. Oh, he's just a normal guy. So you may not idolize them as much because they're not a god in your mind as much,

because you can see them, that you can humanize them because of the access. But yes, I would like to see some of these teams go head to head. And I said, it's hard to put. I'm going to say hard to put. But the foreigners, like I said, Yokach, he seemed. like he doesn't care about the game he does care about the game but just the way he acts with media

if he had a a personal more marketable type of character yannis the same yannis the dad jokes he's great with that um i think those guys would you know be somebody that the fans would look to uh luca as well he's another guy he just said he's foreign so media wise he doesn't really talk as much or do as much marketing or social media stuff like that but anthony edwards one of those guys i mean job was one of those guys he kind of still on the verge of, but he had some off the court issues. Zion was a guy they looked to, but has injuries. So yeah, it's tough, man, with the world that we live in today

to kind of figure out that balance, you know? Yeah, there's a lot going on there. Some interesting stuff like that, today's, the way the today's fan just consumes it, you know, obviously is a lot different. And I think a lot of these guys, because they're of that generation, the way they market themselves is very, it's very kind of casual social media.

where LeBron and Steph and Kobe, those were CEOs, man. Like, they were, those dudes were like royalty and like regal in a way. Like, and you kind of touched on it, Danny, where like they're like superstars, dude. Like, those are, those are like mega movie stars in a way that, like, they carry themselves,

not just like the way they hoop, but the way they carry themselves. And I don't, even the guys you mentioned, I love them all. They don't really project that, right? Yeah. Like, it's more TikToky. Certain aura.

That aura is don't have it. They don't have that. And so that's interesting, Howard. I also think, though, to your point, like having those guys on stages without Steph and without LeBron at some point. And maybe when they're locking horns a couple times, that sparks the polarization or the, I fuck with Yokic. You know, I'm riding with Luca in a way that it hasn't really sparked right now. And then just generally speaking, like league propaganda. Like once LeBron and Steph are out, like, let's make the push.

Like, who are we pushing? Like, that's their job. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Their job is to brainwash you and get your bought in. It is. It's on us. The media hasn't done a great job of continuing.

And, you know, it's on some of the older players of, and older fans as well, of not tearing it down, but not pushing it in the positive as more as we could. You know, because it's like we're seeing things that we don't recognize and don't like it. which is hard. It's hard for, we want to be authentic. We want to push a game that we love. And it's like at some point, the games have to change some things, but the media and the NBA has to push it in a better light of, you know,

this is exciting, this is entertaining, this is what we want. And I think there's ways to spruce it up some, you know, and within season tournament of changing locations, things like that. What came first, the chicken or the egg? Are they holding on to LeBron and Steph and those guys? Because we've seen, sorry, we've seen them phase guys out. Like you know when a guy's getting phased out. You ain't getting those calls no more, my boy.

You're the same player you were last year. James Harden said, Russ. Right. Those guys had aura too, but they're not getting the same type of pub or push like they were. They'll phase you right out. So is it they're holding on to those guys because they haven't identified the next guy in the way that makes them feel secure as a league? Or is it the other way around? Well, I think that's a good question, Roger.

But I also think like if the league saw, because they analyzed this stuff to the nth degree, right? The ratings information or popularity information that they have about players and teams goes way deeper than anything we get publicly, right? Right. So if they see, oh, you know what, every time we put Anthony Edwards on TV or anytime Anthony Edwards does something spectacular, it really spikes interest, then trust me, they would be pushing him that much more. Right. If they thought Luca or Yokic were doing that, they would put, like, I don't necessarily fault the NBA for holding out of Stefan LeBron as much as they are. shit, I'm turning every time those guys play each other or or anytime they play period, especially because we know like the clock's ticking and we don't know how many more opportunities

to see them do what they do. But I also think like, look, a lot of this I think is just on this generation of stars. I wasn't going to go down this rabbit hole, but I'll just hit it real quickly. Yokic, like Danny, you mentioned it. Yokch doesn't do a lot with media or commercials. He finally did those like that Hotels.com series for a bit. But Yokic just does not do commercials. Luca does not do commercials.

Janice used to do a bunch. It seems like he's kind of slipped a little bit. SGA, aside from like what the underwear brand or whatever, like skims. Skims, there we go. Thank you. So like he doesn't do a lot. Like these guys, they're almost unknown and unknowable because partially they don't do a lot of commercials or any.

Partially they don't make themselves available to the media that much. I don't want to get on my soapbox here about media access as a reporter, but I don't think we know them as well. And that's like that's a problem. Like the NBA can't just single-handedly push these guys and and say, okay, fans love these guys. Who's the blame for that? What do you think we blame for that, Howard? Tim Duncan. I was going to say the Spurs. I mean, Kauai. Well, let's say why. Kauai Timmy didn't really did much. They didn't do much off the court. And Spurs like lock in on basketball, which said I love, maybe. the game easy for us. But if you're a superstar and you have a brand, you have a brand,

and you want it out that like you got to do a lot of these that you should do. And you can capitalize it so much more, you know, so. It's the same thing that ails the All Star game to me, right? What do we keep saying? Well, they don't play hard enough. Well, we got to keep changing the format to try to get them to play harder because the players today, I don't think, feel they have as much of an obligation or responsibility as their predecessors did. Like, stars of yesterday, Kobe and Michael and all these guys played hard in those games because they knew the All-Star game. Now, it mattered more than two. We didn't have League Pass. We didn't have satellite TV. The All-Star game was a showcase that mattered a lot more 20 and 30, 40 years ago that it does now because our media environment's just different. And we see

these guys all the time. But these players aren't playing that hard because they don't have to, because they're making tens and hundreds of millions regardless. And so whether it's playing hard in an All-Star game, whether it's stars passing up on the dunk contest, whether it's not being as committed to doing media or commercials. Like, I think it's all of a piece maybe. But that's, you know, no, that's probably a rant for another. When you juxtapose that to like the NFL who was competing on Christmas Day, right? And what the NBA always had, I mean, the NFL was always, you know, it's, it's its own entity in terms of a brand.

But the point is there was always like, it was a logo driven sport, right? Like it wasn't necessarily the individual. They're in helmets. You don't know their faces. You only know a select few. And basketball stars. were like, we know them. Like, they're there.

Well, to your point, Howard, like today's young star is getting beaten by the football star. They are. They're getting beaten by the football star who wears the helmet because they've embraced that. Like, they're all over the place

in commercials and doing those things in a way that our young star in the NBA just hasn't necessarily figured out. Some have, but across the board, haven't in a way that, that I guess, carries your league into the next generation. Yeah.

Yeah. If there's anything I'd like to see, it would be the NBA. Forget, you know, programming on TV and everything else, rules changes. Like, there's all these other things we could talk about. I think the real thing is get your players to understand that like all of your predecessors, the guys you all grew up idolizing, you have a responsibility to the game and to the league. And that just playing great every night and even playing hard every night isn't enough. Like, you have to help the league market itself.

It's not good enough to be walled off. and giving nothing but bland interviews or no interviews. Like there's there is more to selling this game than just being awesome on the court. That's right. Your individuality, your personality, your character, all of that matters. And if people don't feel like they know you, they're not invested in you. So anyway, that's my, that's my. No, sorry, but I'm going to rant a little bit like, because we've turned this into like,

it's just a championship robust league, right? And in that championship robust mentality, a lot of that has been forgotten. Like a lot of the ambassador like hey man, I'm here to promote the game the goodwill the Baby kissing and handshaking a lot of that is is gone because it's bottom line like we want to win a championship yeah and that even that even ties into the sitting like where you were earlier Danny like everybody everyone like look we get it it's fucking hard to play back to backs and four and eight of four eighty two like like that's a bigger picture now what you're you're you're You're going out there for the, you're going out there because you have an obligation in some regards to these, to these people who are tuned in, who have bought tickets, like to show face and put on in a way that's bigger than sometimes your quest to win a championship.

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RG dash help.com. Let's shift gears a little bit. I mentioned, so we're in trade season and we're in trade rumor season. The other thing fans really love, sometimes more than the game, they love rumors. But not great for you guys, not great for players. So here's a quick recap of the week that was. So Jimmy Butler has not, to our knowledge, formally asked for a trade. But Shams Sharunay and ESPN reported earlier this week on Christmas,

in fact, that Jimmy prefers, quote, prefers, not demands, not request, just prefers, a trade out of Miami ahead of the February 6th trade deadline. Pat Riley followed up by declaring he will not trade Jimmy. And Riley in his statement, which is a very rare thing for Riley, noted that the rumors are a distraction. So he's trying to remove or tamp down whatever distractions coming with that. last weekend, my buddy is at the athletic, Sam Amick and Anthony Slater, had a report about Deeran Fox and used the phrase danger zone, that the Kings were in a danger zone with Fox. Rich Paul, his agent was in town to meet with the King's front office. And according to the athletic report, the discussion was focused on an existential question

that needs to be answered if this partnership that began eight seasons ago between Fox and the Kings is going to continue long term. What's the plan here? So there's that. And then Deer and Fox went on on Dremont's podcast. Dremont, also a clutch client, noteworthy. Ed Fox said, quote, I want to make sure that we're in a position to try to win in the future because it's ultimately what I want to do. For me, it's are we looking like we're continuing to get better year after year and are we going to be able to compete at a high level?

So D.R. Fox is doing nothing to tamp down that speculation. And then on top of that, I alluded to this. Michael Porter Jr., of course, is in trade rumors because the Nuggets are underperforming. They don't have a lot of different ways they can go. Porter makes the most sense as a trade piece if they're going to go get Zach Levine or whoever else. Porter was asked, and I think this is really interesting and important too. Porter was asked if the Nuggets front office had reached out to talk to him about all of this to allay his concerns. And he said, quote, they've reached out to me and said it's all noise.

There's nothing serious going on. They have no desire to move me right now. But then he adds. But I also know they wouldn't tell me if they wanted to move me, which is true, which brings me back to Riley. Guys, do we believe Pat Riley when he says there will be no Jimmy Butler trade and we're just like I feel like he's just trying to calm the noise because there's still a lot of reasons to think that they might entertain a Jimmy Butler trade if the right deal comes along.

I mean, I don't know Pat personally. He's a guy when he speaks. I don't, I think he says what he means. You know what I mean? Like, obviously he does play the game with the media sometimes. Like, I think part of it was, you know, this summer. You know, Tyler needs to get and, like, play more games. Same thing with Jimmy, Jimmy and Tyler. Yeah, we love them, but they need to play more games.

You know, we're not satisfied. He needs to stop talking about other teams or this and if you're not in the play. Like, he has remarks and comments each year, each summer when Jimmy's doing Jimmy things or when, you know, Tyler, they're asking about extension. So I think he's playing the mind game with them. Like, you know, if you want to get your extension or you want to get paid, you got to show me that you want to be here and play. You know, you've got to be available.

So a lot of things that he said, I mean, I take it. I believe it. You know, I don't think he's lying. You know what I mean? You know, so he seems like he means what he means. And he says, I'm not training Jimmy. Then I think he's trying to make a point. When he says things, I think he's just, I won't say stubborn.

But yes, old school guys let you know, like when they're standing on business, this is what I see. This is how it's going to happen. This is what's going on. And Jimmy, this is me what you want. We're not giving you what you want. We get what we want. We do what we want to do.

We're not doing what you want to do. And he may be doing it in spite of Jimmy because he doesn't want to give Jimmy what he wants. But if he says it publicly, I think he means it. Yeah, I think you got to the crux of it there at the end. Like, you know, there are a lot of moving parts to that. Number one, the player coming out and what that value is for player already.

Then he tells people that he wants out, and there's only a few places he goes. Like Pat Riley's job off the bat is try to restore some value to the asset, right? Like, and having some control over whether or not you trade him directly affects that. I think also, you know, just as a human being, Pat Riley isn't in the,

and look, I never played for him or sat down and had lunch with him or anything like that either, but I'm just reading tea leaves from everything I've seen and who I know him to be kind of as a as a GM. I don't think he's in the mold of a person who likes to be told what to do. You know? And so I think really, if he could have said it a different way,

he would have probably said, like, I'm not trading Jimmy on Jimmy's terms. Do you know what I mean? Like Jimmy's not running this shit. That's how I took it. Yeah. I am a control of this. And if we get, you know,

if there's value there, whatever that looks like, whatever they've assessed his value as, if they can come close to that, I will double down on what I said pods ago and people didn't believe me. I know for a fact that they are not in love with all of what that's been

as of late in Miami. Stamp that. So if they can get something close to the value, I do think he does it. But I think more than anything, he's like, yo, this shit's on my terms, bro. I don't give a fuck what Jimmy's talking about.

He's limiting him to what teams he could operate or work with and get, and it's hard for the thing. They're not going to give up the pieces they want, you know, they're not going to give up, go to Golden State, not give him Kaminga. So for him, it's like, that's how I read it. When he said it, I'm doing this on my, I trade you when I feel like it, when I want to.

And it may happen before February, but that's if something great comes my way, but I'm not doing it because you prefer it. Right. That's the thing, right? If suddenly the right deal comes along or the heat, you know, lose eight out of ten and they're like, you know what, shit, it's time to pull the plug. they can always trade him and then when we ask we'll ask Riley but Pat you issued a statement pal say well things changed like Michael Porter Jr. gets traded

you know the front office could tell him we didn't plan to but then things changed like the statements whether they're public or whether it conveyed to players individually privately I think we all know the reality of the NBA is there is there are no absolutes nothing can be believed entirely at face value and teams have to do a certain amount of damage control whether it's publicly in Pat Riley's case or privately in the Nuggets case because you don't want Michael Porter Jr. to feel unsettled and have it affect his performance, right?

But this is just the reality. I don't think Pat cares that they lose 10. I think he's willing to stand on his statement until he gets what he wants. If they lose 20 in a row, he's willing to have a terrible season to get what he needs or what he wants. Yeah. He strikes me as the dude that would, cut off his nose potentially to spite his face. Like at this point where he might be like,

yo man, we're going down. We're all fucking going down. Yeah, I don't care. I watch the house while it's burning. Yeah, let's go. Cal Booth is my guy. I love Cal Booth. And he's done a really good job there. But like, if you're Michael Porter Jr., I mean, their job is to lie.

Like, that is the job, right? It's a part of the job. part of the job is to is to work in you know the the gray areas and when your name is out there in the in the rumor sphere um you should be on high alert like you should just know what it is and you're a professional basketball player and if someone tells you they're not trading you and they do that's part of the game it's happened before it'll happen again um you just have to know that when you're dealing with gms man like and i and honestly i mean i'm not i'm not going to say I'd learn that the hard way, but I learned it over the course of time. Like,

I thought we were buddies. Like, you know what I mean? Like, this is my guy. We talk every day. That's not, that's not how that works. So, like, you can't believe everything they're telling you, and you just got to know that that's, you know, it's part of the gig. How unsettling or, um, how much of an impact does this stuff make you think on a day to day basis in a locker room on the court. Like, Danny, you got traded with Kauai, but that was in the off season, right? Some rough locker rooms. I've been a part of Ben Simmons. Kawhi in San Antonio and Ben Simmons was another in Philly. So yeah, I've been a part of those where like we're waiting to see what happens. Obviously, those are very, this is a different situation.

You know, Jimmy's not sitting out purposely. Not that I know of anyway, but I know he's in and we also don't know how much agitating he's doing behind the scenes. Exactly. And to the extent that these reports keep coming out, his teammates are, even if Jimmy's not being, you know, disruptive in any way, and we don't know if he is where he isn't. But just the mere fact that he might get traded,

that's still, BAM's going to hear that, and Tyler here was going to hear that, Terry Rose here, like it's even just the fact that's weighing over the team potentially, like how much does that seep into the day to day? A lot. A lot. One of your main guys, he's your superstar, right? He's your All-Star and he's not there. If he's not bought and he's not committed,

it's hard for anybody to take it seriously, you know, to fully be mentally there. It also depends on what kind of strategy. If he's just not, he's not, if he's doing his part still, like practicing, which I don't know if he is, then it's not as bad. Teams don't practice anymore. Yeah, I know.

So if he's still around for film session, he's still around for stretching and whatever yoga they're doing there and recovery and he's in all the meetings, And he's just sitting out or he's hurt, then it's not so bad. But if he's away from the team or he's not indulging in, you know, film sessions, every day, it's like, yeah, what the hell's going on with Jimmy? Where's he at?

Something new. You know, so it's a distraction. And sometimes it's lighter than other situations, but it's not a light distraction by any means. Yeah, it can be very, it could be distracting. I mean, I played in locker rooms with the distraction. I've been the distraction. Do you know what I mean? Like my last year in Utah, I became the distraction.

You know, I was still, and to Danny's point, like, I was still going to practice. I was still going to film. I was still at treatment. Like, I was still cool with everybody. I wasn't, like, off doing my own thing. But there was a part of me, like, I take my golf clubs, like, on the road and play golf. and like, like, we, we just didn't get along in a way. It was a distraction for whatever part of the year, you know, we got sideways.

Associate yourself from people from the group off the court as well. It can be a distraction. It's like, I'm going into my own lane, my own tunnel. And it's like, oh, he's not showing up to team dinner. Like dinners where we're outings. It's like, oh, Rajas in his own space. Yeah, everybody knows your past. He's not really with us right now.

You know what I'm saying? So he's disinterested or he's detached. You can feel that, that energy you can feel. And I was by no means. I mean, I wasn't like, it wasn't a Jimmy Butler thing. So I, you know, I'm not there. I don't know what's going on with the heat. But if there's any friction, if there's like palpable friction there, like it could be very distracted.

I agree. What do you think the Kings are going through guys right now, both with regard to Deerrin Fox, maybe wanting out, although, again, that one is like this kind of like. It's not a one-tile situation. I mean, they're under a little bit of pressure. So you got DeMar and you guys aren't winning games. like you were, last year you were better the year before you were better. You should be trending in that direction.

This year, you're kind of trending the opposite as you added players. So ultimately, I think, you know, Darren's just like, what does this look like? He wants to win. You know, obviously he knows he's going to get paid wherever he goes, but he wants to be in a situation where he knows he can win. I think in Sacramento, they can be with him and Sabonis being there, Malik Monk, another great person, Kevin Hart, like, that core is great. DeMara still figure it out.

I don't know if he's a part of that core, but I feel like if you keep those pieces together, you have a chance at being contention in the next two or three years, you know? He's got to find the right pieces. So if you do that, you're in pressure either finding some pieces for him or put around him in Sabonis,

or you have to find a way to put him in a situation where he feels like can win somewhere else. So I think that's where it comes to. For him, it's like, what's the direction we're going in? You know, things aren't going well. He's thinking, you know, we need to make a move or another move. We need to do something. And I know we got rid of Harrison Barnes and whoever to get DeMar,

and we were playing better with those guys. We need to find guys like them younger. I don't know if they want to trade tomorrow or keep him or trade somebody else, whether it's Kevin Herder, but we need to find more pieces to where we can have Malik coming up the bench and still getting us that production. He did because some of the games have thrown in the starting lineup. Some guys are hurt or whatever,

but he's not obviously doing the same as he was last year and a year before. But they just don't look in sync like they were. this year as they were the last two years. Yeah. Look, players, players as they come into the league, develop and evolve, and front offices have to continue to do that as well. You're in a different stage as a franchise than you were a couple years ago. And so what you have to prove to him right now is where you find yourself with a lot of guys.

We just have to demonstrate that we will do whatever we can do to continue moving in the direction of a championship. And we can't, I think to some degree, they've kind of stood pat in a way. Like the DeMarth thing was a deal. But you're going to have to prove to him that you, if that doesn't work, okay, we will, we will reinvent ourselves this summer or around the trade deadline. And we'll take another shot at something. We will keep working earnestly to get you closer and closer to that.

I think that guys that start with an organization that have helped build an organization, If you can show them that, give them the blueprint and then keep pulling the trigger, you know, at each step, I think you're fine. Now, there might come a point where like Dan Lillard where he's like, look, man, this has been a decade. Like, we can't keep doing it. But I think that's where they're at to echo kind of what Danny's saying. Like, you have some pieces. For whatever reason, you know, we're not playing as well as we did last year. Let us show you what we will do in an effort to kind of get us to get us back.

you know, to where we were and then take that next step. Yeah, it just seems like things are heading for, I don't know, some kind of reckoning there. And then, you know, on top of that all, like Deere and Fox, you know, like we talked about that he blows that last play last night. Mike Brown in the post game was pretty direct about that Fox just basically blew the coverage. Like he shouldn't have been sagged that far off in the first place. And I don't think that's the first time that Mike Brown has had to criticize Deer and Fox publicly, which I don't think is that big of a deal ordinarily, but one, it doesn't happen that often in today's NBA coaches are really, really restrained. Some lost art. Yes. You know, they're all, they're all

criticize their top players. Yeah. No. And then on top of it, if you've got this, this simmering kind of, hey, Rich Paul came into town to meet with the front office to talk about Fox's future and Dierens talking about it on a podcast with Dremont. Like, I don't know, there's a, there's a lot there. I'm a little worried about the Kings at this stage. Let's finish on this. So the worst news of the week across the league, Luke is out for at least a month. Yeah.

What was it, a calf? Caff strain. Yeah. So there's the concerns for the Mavericks overall, for sure. I think they're fourth in the West right now. But they've got to survive at least a month without him. They're fortunate. They've got Kyrie.

They've got a team that's been together a while. they'll probably be fine, but it's going to be rough. The other piece of it, though, is like, Luca is basically done when it comes to all NBA and MVP now, because we now have this league has a 65 game rule, 65 game minimum. I think this is, what are we in the second or third year of this? So they've taken this judgment call out of the hands of the voters,

out of hands of people like me, and said, if they don't play at least 65, they're not even eligible. They're not even on the ballot. They're not on the electronic drop-down menus that they give us on these ballots. So Luke is basically done because by the time he comes back, he will not be able to get to 65. He was third in the MVP voting last year. He was fifth in the recent ESPN straw poll. And then on the heels of this, Bobby Marks from ESPN had a really interesting stat. He says that 73% of players in the NBA are already ineligible or on pace to be ineligible for the awards,

meaning 73% of players are either already definitely fall short, and 65 games played or on pace two. Now, on pace two, when you've only got a third of the season done, means you could still play the rest of the season and you're fine. But still, so I texted Bobby. I just said, hey, I just want to kind of confirm this with you. He said, he clarified that that stat was actually from two weeks ago, and he said, I believe it's worse than that now.

It's probably 80%. Yeah, probably. So if everybody's disqualified, then everybody's qualified, everybody's qualified, right? Or it means that, like, you know, somebody's, like, seventh man is suddenly going to make all NBA. I don't know. This is what I've worried about since the moment the NBA decided on this particular, quote-unquote, solve to the load management and player participation issues, right? Like, it may be too rigid, and we may have a catastrophic season where too many guys missed. So just to review real quick, while we're talking about all NBA and 65 games being the minimum, Zion's already done.

He's missed 25 games and counting. Brandon Ingram has missed 13 out of 31 so far, but he's still out. Brandon Ingram is probably going to be out too. Not saying he would have made it otherwise, but just these are guys who would be in the conversation potentially. Palo Bencaro is already basically done when it comes to all that, I think, mathematically. Kauai, of course, is done. Chet Holmgren is probably done.

And then here's some players who bear watching. Kevin Durant's already missed 10 out of 29 games. So you can miss 17. So 65 games played means, of course, no more than 17 missed. Durant's already missed 10 and like chances are he's going to miss another seven along the way. John Morant has already missed 12. Paul George has missed 10. Scotty Barnes has missed 13.

Jimmy Butler has missed eight, but we know Jimmy's going to miss more games. He always does. LeMello has missed eight and is having a fantastic season and will be in the conversation. Dame Lillard's missed seven. That's crazy. So there's like. Of like 29 games. Danny, I can't even wrap my mind.

It's a different time. It is. Now some of those are real injuries, though. Like real injuries. I'm not saying that any of them aren't. I'm just saying when you've already missed a fourth of the season and by rule, you have to have played 65 games is 79% of the season. So you need to play close to 80% of the season to be eligible. And a bunch of guys that I just listed have missed a large percentage so far to Bobby Marks's point.

and it does concern me that it may warp the races ultimately. That rule is basically going to have to change. It's going to come down to 60 probably, which still guys will still miss it. But I said at this point now, it's like if everybody is disqualified, then everybody's qualified. At this point, if everybody misses,

it seems like damn to the whole league is going to miss the 65 game mark. So it's like, all right, well, everybody, now everybody's eligible because we can't give it. So can't give these to role players. You know what I'm saying? You can't give these awards to role players. You can't give MVP six-minute most improved, like all those things. You can't give first-team NBA, first-team all-defense.

You can't give those to guys that are role players. So ultimately, they're probably going to change the rule and make exceptions this year for that rule because it seems like everybody's going to miss the 65 game mark this year. With the exception of Braun, Steph might miss it too. It's crazy. The 40-year-old guys. only guy that's going to make the 65 game. Steph has missed five out of 29, so he's okay for now. By the way, Wembenyama's missed five out of 30 so far.

Jalen Brown's missed five out of 30. Some of these, like these are not danger zone yet. By the way, Franz Wagner, another one was having a fantastic season. He's missed seven out of 32, but it's seven and counting. He's that oblique injury. That's going to wipe him out. So it's my thought was the NBA will only, regret this rule if there's a season where something like this happens. Now, it hasn't happened yet.

Again, these guys could all come back, play the rest of the season and maybe there's no issue. It's happening. But yeah, I have very curious to see. But it looks like it's happening this year. Yeah. It also, of course, speaks to just the fact that guys miss a lot of games now. Like, once again, we're back to this. And I don't know how the NBA solves this, whether it's load management or just overall health or whatever. That is a much bigger topic. Back to what Raj I was saying, the biggest point is everybody's looking at the bigger picture and guys would play through a wrist or shoulder injury before because it's like you know regular season matters and you know ratings and fans that all matters and we want to win people people like you know what we're going to save him for later but we we feel like we're comfortable

enough that we can make up the games later on especially when you have the play in when you have 10 teams on each side getting a chance to make the playoffs you can always like you know the bigger pictures hopefully they're healthy by the end of the year regular season doesn't matter which is not it's not the case back then. This is like, like, I mean, first of all, not every punishment is created equal, right? So if the punishment's going to be like you miss out on first team all MBA and you're not in a contract year, well, maybe, you know, so what? But like if you're in a situation where that award directly ties into your ability to make

exponentially more money, that's not the same punishment. And if you're actually injured, I don't see how, I don't, I don't see how, I don't, see how real injuries should preclude you from being able to do that. The problem is you can't always identify what a real injury is and what isn't a real injury. I think that at the root of the problem, and I've talked about this before, is you are, you are, you are levying sanctions against the wrong people. Like the punishment isn't for the play. This did not start with players. It didn't. It started with organizations. I was in one. When we were telling players, hey, you're not going to play on this road trip. It would be my job to fucking tell them. And they'd look at me on the plane,

like, I'm not playing? And you could see their mind going to, okay, I'll have a drink now. So I know it wasn't like, do you know what I mean? Like I was giving them the news. And so if you're trying to curb that and stop that, it's not, it's not like putting parameters in place to stop the players from doing it. It's putting in sanctions to stop the organizations from doing it. that's where you have to attack it if you really want to curb it. And those are the people who are ultimately responsible for it. And if you were to tell me in a world where like today it's more player driven, I would say, okay, it might be.

I'm not around it to the degree that I was. But it's like raising a kid. Like if you raise them and allow them to talk crazy to you and you're even like laughing and joking with your friends when your kid talks back to you, like look how sassy this little motherfucker is. When he gets 19 and he's cursing you out, you don't get to turn around and be like, oh my God,

I cannot believe he talks to me like that. You raised it. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. There's the fatherhood advice there. How do you change that, though, Roger? Like, do you penalize the organization

for holding guys out when it's not a real injury? Like, because the only people that's getting hurt now is or being penalized are the players. They're not getting the bonuses. They're not making all NBA team. Right. Organizations don't care. It's like, all right, we have to pay them more.

Danny, that's what I'm saying. It's like, it's like, all right, it's better for us to sit, sit guys out because we don't have to pay in the bonuses, you know. That's right. So how do we penalize organizations? Well, I don't flip side of it. If you penalize organizations, like now they're, they don't care about the players' health anymore.

Now they're pushing us to play when we're hurt. What? Bigger picture, right? Like, we're always, like, we're just wired as a society. Like, we don't hate on the billionaire, like, in his pockets. We hate on the labor force and then making the money, right? We're just wired to do that anyway.

So like, pointing the finger at the players as the problem is easy. Like, that's what we're going to do. To some degree, there has to be, if you're trying to fix it, some sort of repercussion for the organization for doing it, right? Like, I don't have all the answers to this, but you can get an arbitrator or whatever you, whatever it is, like an independent doctor that comes in. Like, hey, man, we're fucking check Danny. You're saying Danny's got a rolled ankle.

Well, this dude doesn't work for the spurs. This dude doesn't work for the Cleveland Cavs or the Sixers. Like, let's take a look at that. Oh, real injury. Like, don't have a problem with real injuries. They happen all the time. Like, but the ones that aren't real injuries, we have to have a way of policing the organization

because there's no honor amongst thieves. And all of these dudes, given the opportunity, are going to look for any little way to, like, have an advantage over their other billionaire friend as it relates to winning this championship, thus driving up franchise values, and X, Y, and Z. So, like, that's where you have to go.

Yeah. And here's the thing I've always said from just as a media member, as a voter for most of the years that I've been covering the league, we've barely ever rewarded guys for playing 64 or fewer games anyway. Like, if you go back, like, look at MVP results. Look at all NBA. It hasn't happened very often anyway. So it's, like, it's unlikely because we're already using that as one of the ones.

of the factors, right? Oh, this guy had some great stats. Yeah, it was on a great team. This guy had great. Oh, but this guy played 76 games and this guy only played 62. Like, we already factor it in. And when they take that out of our hands, the frustrating thing for me is, again, these are scenarios that may come to pass as soon as this season. If a guy comes up short, if Kevin Durant plays 64 games, but was outstanding in those 64 games and somebody else played 65 or 66, but is kind of the next tier down. And I have to vote for that guy instead of Kevin Durant, that's going to be really annoying. And by the way, Luca even, Luke can miss a month. Let's say he comes back immediately. Let's say month ends up being instead of it. He'll

already be ineligible the day he comes back. But what if he just goes on a fucking rampage for the last four months of the season? And the Mavericks finished second in the West or somehow even overtake the Thunder or whatever. And you're just like, holy crap, we just saw one of the greatest all-time seasons. And look at the way he drove the Mavericks back into home advantage, top of the standings, all this stuff. And nope, not eligible because he only played 64 or 63 or whatever it's going to be. Like, that, I just don't think that that is a great solution. And I almost want something like this to happen to force the NBA to reassess this whole thing.

It's going to be reassessed. You better believe it. 2025. It'll be reassessed. So, new year. We will see. There's plenty of season yet to come. Danny, this has been fantastic, man.

It's been real. Great seeing you, bro. Same, brother. Appreciate you guys having me, man. It's been great. It's been awesome. Danny mentioned it. He worked the plug-in really beautifully earlier inside the green room with Danny Green, the podcast. Go check that out. Find him on ESPN and Fandul and Turner and what was it? Wherever I can get on the tube, man. Anywhere. Anywhere I can get it. He's working his ass off is the point, people. Transitioning to the next job. So, but yeah, man, I appreciate you guys having me. This was a lot of fun. We'll definitely do it again soon. So hopefully, and hopefully the league will make some good changes to keep the ratings up.

For sure. Appreciate it, Danny. Thank you, Danny. Thank you, Roger. Thank you, producer, Isaiah. Oh, quick before we go, quick shout up, by the way, to Jonathan Fagan, long time Rockets beat writer at the Houston Chronicle for 27 years, I believe, on the beat, announced on social media today that he is stepping away. I think retiring. I don't want to put words in his mouth.

I didn't, I couldn't catch the full story yet. but Jonathan's had just like an incredible run, one of the most seasoned, respected, and just tenured beat riders. You don't get 27 years covering a team anymore. And it's like people are in and out in like five years because it's a freaking grind. That's a hell of a run.

Jonathan. Yeah. Congratulations, Jonathan. All right, that's it for us. Raja and I will be back on Tuesday. I will be back on Tuesday. I'm here, dude. We're here, man.

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