The Ringer NBA Show - Three Teams We’re Most Excited About Next Season

Episode Date: September 5, 2024

Kyle, Seerat, and Michael are back together to make their case for the teams they’re most looking forward to watch play heading into the 2024-25 NBA season. Hosts: J. Kyle Mann, Seerat Sohi, Michael Pina Producer: Erika Cervantes Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, guys, your boy Johnny Bananas here. The Challenge Season 40 Battle of the Eras is finally upon us. I'll be covering every episode with all your favorite challengers on my podcast, death taxes and bananas on the Ringer Reality TV podcast feed, and on the brand new Ringer Reality TV YouTube channel, where you can find full video episodes all season long. So buckle up, come along with me as we see who will be crowned winner of the Challenge Season 40 Battle of the Eras.

Follow Ringer Reality TV on Spotify and subscribe to us on YouTube. Basketball is so very good. I had to let a scream out there because technical issues have caused everything to go haywire, but we're in a part of the time of the year where, you know, there is a calm. There's a hush that's over the NBA, a sort of a silence where there are teams potentially laying in working or laying and waiting, ready to level up or teams ready to make a move towards the title or contention. but there's no two people I'd rather talk about this than two basketball savants. I feel like I drank 10 cups of coffee ready to roll.

I'm here with Michael Pina who is looking healthy and Sirat Sohi, who is also looking healthy. They are prime. They're ready. Guys, how are you doing? How are you handling the off season? I'm doing great. Yeah, lovely, lovely. Post-Labor-day vibes.

NBA is the only thing on my mind right now, as I'm sure it's going with most people. So I'm really, really excited to hop in. Yeah, well, today we're going to just be sort of discussing. We're looking ahead to the season. We're sort of kind of figuring out where our eyes should be, who's going to regress, who's going to move forward, who's going to be sneaky, chippy. Pina came up with this topic today where we were just going to kind of go through

and talk broadly about some teams that we have giddy expectations for or we're excited to watch for. You brought it up as we're excited for a variety. of reasons. Maybe we'll do it this way. We'll just say we'll go through. We've each picked two teams. We weren't supposed to reveal to each other who the teams were. One of us did, one of us did broke that rule almost immediately. Two of us didn't. One of us wasn't informed of the rules. That's true. Cyr it. Before.

I was say, well, Sear and I both. One of us was unaware that that was a condition, although I should have known because of how much peanut loves secrets. I do. Does peanut love secrets? This is the first thing I'm hearing about this. Is that something that is your- That's why it's why. Harris Harris soap back. Oh, I see. I see. Well, so I think that, so even though a third of the teams are to be are already sort of revealed, you guys don't know who it is. So we'll just kind of go through. I guess we'll say the team and maybe we'll just say why we're excited to watch the team. It might just not it might not be just pure excitement. Maybe it will be. But Pina, since it's, you're, you were the leader of this, or the creator of this discussion. I'll give you the honors. Who's who's the first team on your list that you're the most excited? to watch and tell us why just to start off with. So this team, first of all, great job on the intro. Thanks, man.

Thank you. Thank you. I really enjoyed that. This team, I think I will watch more than any other team this entire season. And it is the San Antonio Spurs. They have, Victor Webbenyama, have you heard of them? I have. He is the best defensive player in the world.

He is the most fascinating young offensive player in the world. and when you watch him play, you can't help but imbue this childish wonder because every time he takes the court, he's going to do something that you've literally never seen before. He just has this combination of size and length and agility and like total fearlessness. He's like willing to be vulnerable on a basketball floor

in a way that not very many young superstars are. And so watching him play and watching him ascend surrounded by the actual familiar NBA players and names and personalities that he did not have last year as a rookie like Chris Paul, Harrison Barnes. It's a real rotation, a real nine-man rotation now. I just think the spurs are going to be really good and should compete for a play in spot, which is kind of astonishing given where they've been the past few seasons.

Yeah. Yeah. Can I sharpen one of the things you said? because I think it's really interesting. You said vulnerability. What does vulnerability on offense look like to you in basketball? I think just his personality is more so what I'm referring to. He's just not afraid to fail.

He just does him on the court. He is super bold. He is trying, he'll try stuff and be willing to fail. And I don't think a lot of guys are out here trying to worry. willing to do that. So it's a, it's like a factor in an element of him that I really appreciate just watching him as he improves and evolves as this like future face of the sport. It's, it's awesome to see. Yeah, there's a willingness to try new things. It makes him one of the more fun players to watch, especially when you consider like the canvas that he is painting with. It's just incredible.

Like there's like I, I have one of my favorite plays of him last season was, you know, it was, against the Celtics, like he's being guarded by Derek White. He's midair. He thinks about finger rolling and he just like twist his hands. And then he twists them back for a dunk. And it was like just one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. And just I feel you on the child as joy too because the game just looks different when Wembe Yama plays it.

Like it's strange. It has a way of slowing down and speeding up at the same time. One of my favorite things to watch with him is just the fact that like as much as we are astonished by his strides. And I think we started doing this really when Janus came into the league, the counting of, oh, he got up half court in three strides.

Interesting thing about Wembenyama, because of the dynamic type of score he wants to be because of the things that he's able to do in half court and because of his size, he actually has to make his strides smaller sometimes. Like he has this sort of,

of like protracted way of moving that I just find so fascinating and just speaks to his grace. And the other vulnerability thing, man, like the crying after, after Team USA lost to France, it was just, it was one of the most, it was sad, but it was also one of the most terrifying things that I've ever seen. And if you're a Spurs fan, you should be delighted by the fact that, you know, your boy was was going through pain. You know, he put it all out there. And, and, And he failed. And I think, I think peanut goes exactly to what you're talking about on and off the court. The guy is just, I mean, he has everything, you know, he has, he has the body, he has a skill, but he has the heart and he has the patience.

He just, he's, he's got the full package. And I think, you know, I think the spurs could have that sort of, that one OKC season where Chris Paul was there and they made the playoffs. And then Chris Paul went, you know, off to Phoenix. and then they fell back into the lottery. Not necessarily the worst thing for them. Wouldn't necessarily be the worst thing for a Spurs team that I think could use a lot more talent around Wembenyama. But I just think that this season is going to be awesome for him

as a learning experience and for us as fans. Oh, no doubt it's going to be fun to watch just because I think the broadest strokes of basketball, like in terms of he appeals to what I would say is like the Good Morning America kind of level basketball fan where it's just like my dad who doesn't give a crap about the NBA could tune in and be like, holy shit, you know, because he pops up the screen in a really, you know, interesting, just novel way. But I think there's, there are a few things here in what you said, Pina, that I think are interesting is that like, you know, first of all, yeah, he has that vulnerability. He has that freedom to experiment and he has that freedom to, that leash

to go do those things because of what he is on the defensive end. I'm curious to pick your brain on the defensive rankings sort of, because I know you're a big bam guy, uh, in terms of the best defender AD also. But, you know, teams, this other element, this other, I think, reoccurring theme is going to reappear, I think, as we talk about these teams. And that's this idea of teams that are close and how to decide how close you are and how damaging the aggressive decisions can be when you think you're close and you're not, or when it's time to be assertive when maybe just when to be assertive overall,

I think is an interesting point. But I think for the spurs, it all kind of revolves around like, Wimby's vulnerability is tolerable, I think, because he's unlike a lot of players in that he doesn't have like a self-sabotaging, like idea of who he is, like a distorted idea that leads him down roads that are not productive or not efficient. Because let me know if you all agree with this, like whether or not, you know,

last year a lot of his offense shifted whenever the spurs stopped playing. I mean, this was widely covered. I covered it a lot. they stop playing Zach Collins. You get that big out there that is like not spacing him. And then I think we started to see him drive the ball more. I'm curious, like, where do you all think offensively the spurs are going to grow the most other than just the maturity? Chris Paul comes in. How do you think, do you think it's going to be a matter of him getting more easy baskets or do you all expect his face-up game was the thing in his game that looked good, but it was never quite efficient enough to be like his

primary mode of offense. Where do you all expect him to grow offensively and how do you think that's going to affect the Spurs winning games? Yeah. I think that just overall, the Spurs taking an approach that is less experimental and more traditional this season in terms of how they built their roster was so necessary and will serve Wembe good for the rest of his career. And I already mentioned Chris Paul coming in.

We talked about him. I know he's probably over the hill, even though last year on the Warriors, he was actually pretty good. And they had a plus net rating when he was on the court. When he was on the court without Steph Curry, which is like basically nothing. It's like Kevin Durant didn't even do that when he was on the Golden State Warriors. Like Chris Paul is still really competent and a quality player. And just last year learning that, as you said, he probably, they didn't know that he could be the five, like from the jump. So they had Zach Collins.

They would always play him with another big as this like pseudo stretch four. Those days are already over. He's going to be the starting center. They bring in Harrison Barnes. He's the more traditional stretch four body type. And, you know, you have a little bit of shooting around. You have Devin Fasel who I absolutely adore, love him, love everything about Devin Vesel's game, Keldon Johnson.

And I think most importantly, you always have a point guard on the court with him. Like Jeremy Soman will not play a second of point guard this year. Like there's just no science lab. right now. Maybe like Victor is like the science experiment, but like everything around him is just normal NBA basketball in terms of just how rotations, their rotation will be, Pops rotation and his lineup's constructions. So I don't know if you know if I answered your question, but like they'll look more normal, but they will have this like seven four ridiculous, unprecedented being, elevating everyone around him also. So they're just so exciting to me.

Sarah, what do you think? I think it's a lot of good points by Pina. Obviously, yes. Like, I just think the sheer, you know, the amount of easy baskets that he's going to get this year compared to last is going to go up astronomically. The lobs from Chris Paul, there were just basic basketball plays that the spurs were not able to make last year, especially in the first half of the season. I think that, you know, and, you know, to the credit of some of the younger guys on the team, it did get better throughout the season. but, you know, it's not the same as having a guy like Chris Paul out there. I think that's going to be awesome for, you know, down the roster.

He just has this skill for organization that a young team, you know, we saw it in Phoenix too, right? Like that team really figured out who it was, you know, a guy like McKeill Bridges, for example, figured out exactly where he was going to get his shots from a guy like DeAndre Aten, had his career years with Chris Paul, you know, despite what, you know, may or may not have been happening off the court. He just has this way of allowing everybody else on the roster to know exactly what they're supposed to do. But then, yeah, you do have this extra twist with Wembe Niyama where, you know, to your point earlier, Kyle, about the idea of Wembe, not necessarily having this self-sabotaging idea of who he's supposed to be. I don't know if it's as much of that or the fact that he just has such expansive potential that we don't want him to limit himself in any way. So even when he does, you know, I do think he takes a few too many step back threes every once in a while.

I don't love seeing that early in the clock from him. But at the same time, I also don't really care because he's so young. And I just want him to continue exploring, you know, the potential of what he could be. And we are probably two or three years away from even wanting to start having that conversation about, you know, what is his limiting skill sets are, the places that he needs to go away from. but just being able to put it all on, you know, this canvas that I think is just going to be a lot more structured this year. It's going to be really exciting. And I think it's also going to allow him to get a better sense of the player that he's supposed to be too. Because, you know, as much as it's great to, you know, have freedom.

And I think that's something that's very important to him. It is good to also start working within some sort of confine of an NBA offense just to see, you know, because it's different. different once you actually start to try to win. You know, it's like there's, you do start to pay for some of the things that you're not necessarily supposed to be doing that aren't really, you know, in service of you, your team. But I also, you know, I think this is a guy who also kind of, he might need some sort of challenge imposed onto him as well. Because the one thing that we saw in the second half of the season and the Olympics that was just

absolutely terrifying to me was the absolutely casual nature in which he dominated. He looks bored sometimes. He's, and then after a while, you realize it's not like this performative nonchalance. He really is this calm because, you know, frankly, it really is this easy for him sometimes. Like he's a guy who, you know, he dunks the ball. He barely gets a foot off the ground and it looks like, he looks like feathery while he does it. He doesn't have to use a lot of power. So I think that's actually going to be a fascinating challenge for him, for his trainers, for San Antonio, in general, is just how do you get the most out of this guy when, you know, the best way is to, you know, we always say iron sharpens iron. The best way to do that is to give him as many challenges as possible when it just feels like he just blows right through them in, you know, just astronomic speed. Yeah.

He's, he's an interesting Venn diagram overlap of a lot. I mean, you could go. I mean, there's a lot of ways that he overlaps and ways other. players just have not. But I think an interesting one is that he's in this body. He's very intelligent like we talked about. He's open to things. He's, he's an experimenter. There's a playfulness among the best players ever and the best players in the world right now that he has. And then also that he's just a competitive motherfucker. That's the other thing like you said. And he's unfazed by it. He wants to kill everybody. But if I'm looking at the spurs, I think, you know,

as we wrap them up and kind of move on and put a bow on what what we think they're going to do, Pina, I'll go to you for your prediction for that in a second. But, like, you know, over the past couple of years, you mentioned Sohan playing point guard. Everybody was gnashing their teeth over that. We talked about even Vassell and Kelden, these are guys who were probably over-exerted a little bit. It's good that I see you're maintaining the faith with Fasel, because I know some people kind of got off the train with some of that that was going on. But those guys were pushed to kind of their limits, I think, in terms of heavy reps as decision-makers and scores and pastors and whatever it is. Do you think that that was sort of like hyper trophy that was like by design?

Do you think that they were pushing those guys and letting those guys learn lessons that when they regress back into more sensible roles on a sensible sane team that like Chris Paul is a good person to lead? Do you think that was by design or do you think that they were just like erroneously experimenting with the Spurs this past year? I mean, that's a great question. I think the stakes were nothing, like literally absent from the situation. So like they wanted to lose, it seemed to me pretty clear. And so I just didn't take a lot of it seriously, frankly. And I was hoping that this year they would be a little bit more determined and intentional

with the players that they wanted to put around them and how they wanted to use them. And they're doing that. And getting, I just, I was shocked that they got Chris Paul. you like never see a player like that so late in his career willingly go to a situation where he has zero percent chance of winning the championship.

That's like the whole thing with him. And so to go here, be a starting point guard, help Victor on the court, but then also as you talked about competitive motherfucker, Chris Paul is like first ballot hall of fame in that category.

And so I think that the way that Chris Paul rubs off on Victor and teaches him things about NBA life and what it means to be great, I think that that's just invaluable also. That's also, I know we're not talking about this, but that's also just a really fascinating way to decide to end your career to take your twilight years and say, instead of ring chasing, I am going to find value in teaching. And I imagine that you're going forward. It's amazing.

Yeah, it's really cool. Like, I imagine it stops in Oklahoma and Phoenix really taught him the value of that. And even, you know, with the Warriors, Bajamski, comminga, Moody, those guys. Like, he was really, you know, he was, like, it was a whole bunch of young guys and Chris Paul on that bench, making them better, you know, to, like, you know,

to the point of them actually being able to be a plus team in those minutes. It's not like he was, like, buoyed by a whole bunch of other guys. He was the organizing force. And I think that it's really interesting that he found value in that and that he decided to go down that route, with, you know, the guy who's potentially going to be the face of the NBA in a few years, maybe sooner than we even think. It's just cool.

I think it's a really nice contrast, you know, to, you know, this culture of, like, ring chasing, especially when you put it in the context of everything else that Chris Paul has accomplished to then have a ring would really actually, like, you know, vault him up a few stratospheres in terms of, like, you know, all-time legacy rankings. when we talk about, you know, years later when people go on Wikipedia, they will bash Chris Paul for not having a ring. And I think in this moment,

we should just acknowledge the fact that he chose it. If you know, if you know, if he's going to be in all time. If you know you, for sure. But like there's like at the same time, there's a lot of people who don't know and won't bother to know. And the fact that he's just, just kind of put that to the wayside

to do this thing that is, as created a level of fulfillment for him. I think it's just really cool. Yeah, yeah. The floor for Chris Paul teams historically is high. Now, like the ceiling maybe doesn't reach to the point where he's like going to elevate you to a title, but he's never, he elevates. That's what he does.

So, all right, just putting a bow on this. I mean, you mentioned you think they're going to maybe potentially flirt with the playing game. Who do you think, I mean, how high do we think? Let's make record predictions. These are soft record predictions. I mean, is that realistic? Let's just, let's pull that question apart.

Do we think it's possible that they could get to that level? Like, how do you all feel? I think I'm going to throw a number out there in win total. That's borderline sacrilegious, but I think 44 wins is on the table for them. Like they won 22 last year. I could see a improvement level similar to what we saw from the Houston Rockets two years ago to last season. that's how impressed I was with Victor last year

and particularly when you just focus in on him with a real point guard trade shones and playing the five. Like they were awesome. So a whole season of that, I think they'll be really good. Yeah, I don't even think that's that ridiculous,

to be honest. You know, I'm just looking at like their last 10 games this season. And I know that, you know, you get into the garbage time. with, you know, you get some teams that are resting. But, you know, they also, they beat a Nuggets team that really needed a win.

And that game could have actually, you know, that game probably tipped, you know, how the rest of the Western Conference race went in the playoffs as well because the seating implications of it for them to win that game. But also, you know, to go, I think it was six and four or like seven and four in the final stretch of the season two. When they really started to figure some things out, it almost, again, like we keep making the Phoenix comparison, but like it, remember when like before Phoenix got Chris Paul, they also went 8 and 0 in the bubble and showed this little, you know, this kernel of potential of what this team could actually be. And I, I think that a similar thing could be going on in San Antonio, especially just, I just expect a leap. I expect a guy like Bacel to just thrive in a more structured

offense. I was actually, I was going to go with 45. Wow. Yeah. This is a pro spurt. podcast. It's a pro spurs podcast. It's a pro spurs podcast. I just think I think sometimes like these little things can can help you make exponential leaps. And by the way, for those of for those of you listening, Pina is wearing a San Antonio's first cap right now. I think before we get we'll move on, we have to mention that. We all enter these pods knowing that it could be on on social media. So he's not, I'll assume he's not trying to totally hide it there. But I was thinking somewhere in the 40, I mean, maybe high 30s, mainly just because if they are leaning on CP3, you know, there's, he is getting long in the tooth and has had a history of missing time.

So I could see that, that softening that, that positive growth a little bit. So I'd thread the needles somewhere in the middle. So there we go. Our first team, San Antonio Spurs. Second team, Sirot Sohi. Who do you got? Who's your team you're excited to watch? And for what reason?

You know, we've been, we've mentioned them a number of times here. I'm going to go with the Phoenix Suns. Another team that I think last year. I didn't expect that one with this trio of people, but go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. What's that? I don't know. I feel like Pina has cynical thoughts on Devin Booker as opposed to Aunt Edwards,

which I'd be a curious debate at some point on this, but I won't speak for him. But yeah, I didn't expect that one. Continue. Sorry. Yeah, we can get into that. But yeah, I'm just, again, sort of that thing of like minor changes, creating exponential growth. I just think that they had a really, really good off season for what they were able, what they were capable of doing.

I think that hiring Mike Budenhouser to coach a team that was number one in mid-range pull-up frequency last season is going to do wonders for the efficiency of their offense. Like we were talking about a guy who the second he got to Milwaukee, he threw tape onto the practice floor at like all the corners behind the three-point line. and basically told us, guys, this is where you're spacing out to. And there were growing pains within that, especially for a guy like Chris Middleton, who loves the mid-range, but they all eventually embraced it. And I think that, you know, just like one tiny step behind the arc for for Kevin Durant,

for Devin Booker, for Bradley Beale, who, by the way, are really, really good three-point shooters could do wonders for that offense. And, you know, it's an interesting thing. when that team got together with Beal, we wondered if they would have any capability of defending, but just that the offense would figure itself out. It ended up being the opposite. They were ninth in offensive efficiency.

And that's not enough for how that team was constructed. They needed to be top five. They needed to be top three, frankly. They needed to be blisteringly good and unguardable, and they weren't. And they actually managed to have an average defense, which that, you know, I don't think I have that. on my

absolute fluke okay okay yeah for an entire entire season an entire season of fluky defense love to see it

love to see it do you believe in fluky titles I was gonna say well how do you have fluky defense what even let's just what is that even three point luck what do you go to

well I mean that's the only variable that's it right how else I mean 82 games of three point luck I Sarah are you done with your your We can argue that.

Yeah, you got it. It seems snarky, but it wasn't, I know. Keep going. I was hoping it'd be snarky, but, yeah, Ketin. I, look, I, you didn't even mention, the reason why I would be optimistic about them is they took care of the point guard position. Yeah, I was going to say that until you cut me off. I, I knew.

I, like, they actually have depth this year. I mean, they grabbed two. of the kings of assisted turnover ratio with Tyos Jones and Monta Morris. And I think that that was just really smart and getting them on the contracts that they did, particularly Tyas. It was like one of the great steals of the offseason contractually. But then like Mason Plumley, I think is a really quality backup big as well behind Yusuf Nurkich who could very well, you know, usually gets hurt and didn't really last season.

So I'm kind of waiting for that to happen. But I hear you with the coach Bud's influence on the office. offense. I want to, you know, see it before I can believe it, unfortunately. But yeah, I just think defensively there's a lot of question marks. There's a lot of like who's going to play with who and how long. And I mean, like, Grayson Allen has to play. But if you play Grayson Allen, Beal, Booker, and Tyos Jones, like, you can't because your defense will be terrible. So I think that there's, some issues. How are they going to get Royce O'Neill on the court? In those lineup configurations with the big three, will Bradley Beal ever? Like, what is his, I don't know.

So I just think that I have more questions. I respect the talent. And I think Coach Bud is a really good tactician. But yeah, I have questions about them, not to mention the health issues with KD, who played a ton of games last year. I'm extremely dubious of the perimeter defense. I just don't know. Like, you know, that's something that's going to kind of come up with some other teams that we talk about. And this is always the balancing act. There aren't many Boston Celtics out there in the world that can both get their best offensive lineups and their best defensive lineups on at the same time.

It's one or the other. And I'm just kind of wondering if, you know, Phoenix tried to address that with some of their, like, value plays in the draft. You know, they picked up Ryan Dunn, who's this big monster, 6-8 guy who can switch and stuff like that. But offensively, very challenged. We talk about Royce O'Neill. same thing. I just kind of wonder if that's going to be a big issue for them. But I'm curious, coming into this season, like, you know, Pina and I had a conversation. I don't even remember

what prompted it. We were talking about top 10 or something. And we got in on the subject of Booker and Ant, you know, and I felt like last season, it seemed like in the sort of mainstream talking about credibility with players, it seemed like Booker, Booker receded from the view a bit, I thought. But if you look at the numbers, he didn't really. He came on and three point percentage last year had like, you know, a good uptick there. He was sharing the ball, up 1.4 assists year over year from 2022, 23. Overall was just asked to do a lot more of that. Do you all think that we, should we expect a bigger scoring year from him now that they have like tied down the point guard position a little bit more? Or I'm kind of wondering if we see a book or

surge and maybe an aunt has sort of like a plateau year. a little bit offensively where he kind of, that conversation is still interesting to me, those two players. Yeah, I think before we get to the aunt part of it, I think that the biggest thing with Booker is going to be just a change in the configuration of how he gets his offense.

Like he was asked to play point guard so much. And Pina, you actually wrote a great piece to start of the last season about, you're smiling. You're teeing him up to kill me. Go ahead. No, no,

no, no, I'm smiling just because it was like the headline of that story. It was like Devin Booker is the best point guard in basketball. and I still get tweets from Dallas Maverick fans about it. But continue. Classic. Classic.

You know, that's a hat tip to Dahlinger is a headline right here for that one. Oh, but so I think the biggest change is really just going to be the way that he gets his offense. And I think that that could just, you know, like play a lot of dividends for him. I actually wrote about this a few weeks ago after the Olympics, just seeing him go back to that role that he played at Kentucky. that we kind of expected him to be going into the season. He even, he went on DeAngel Russell's podcast and talked about how, you know, he thought Miami was going to draft him because they were looking for like a Clay Thompson type. And then in the years since,

he has turned into this like on ball practitioner, really up his playmaking ability, operates in the midrange a ton, just like a lot of pick and roll, a lot of isolation. But he still has all of that off screen stuff in his bag. And I kind of, I likened it a little bit to, you know, how the Warriors use Steph Curry. I think now that the sons have a point guard, they can just go back to running Booker off all these screens. And he has, he is, you know, you don't want to compare a guy to Steph, but he's one of the few guys that has the stamina to just run around the court all day. You know, before Paul got there, he was consistently in the top three in distance traveled on offense in the season. he was one of the better off-screen guys, like really elite shooting off-screens, doing anything off-screens too.

Like, you know, like he's and just when you when you pair that now with the creation ability that he has, I just think that it could really make his offense a lot more efficient and more importantly, give the sons a better offensive identity beyond what they had last season, which was really just we have three great scorers, so get the hell out of the way, because that didn't really serve them either. It didn't, it didn't accentuate all of Booker's strengths, but it didn't accentuate Beals either because he was working off that off-wall stuff a lot less too,

and Kevin Durant as well. And those three guys are really elite at it. So when you have, I think it's a real boon to have superstars who have their differences, but also like when it comes to the main way that they get their offense, or that they can get their offense being the same because it just makes it a lot easier to implement

to system and to then work within it and find some wrinkles. So I think that that is going to be really fun to watch. And I think it's almost intuitive. That's part of the reason I think they're a really interesting team. I wouldn't put them in. I don't think they're going to be holding the Larry O'Brien at the end of the season by any means. If they are, I think it's going to be because of the things that we're talking about. Because how much of what they need to change just makes a lot of intuitive sense.

And they finally have like the little pieces that will allow. them to do it on the on the aunt thing i'm not all i'll i'll leave you to it uh because i don't i don't even know we have fully have time to unpack that here but there's no real take it was just a sort of uh who who's gonna i feel like they're a little more neck at neck than people act like at times because people were so ready for aunt to be there and he has this he's fun everybody wants it to happen you know but i was just curious i thought the olympics were honestly an interesting reflected reflection of where the two players are i think they were and the one thing i would say is just that Booker's in the part of the life cycle of the narrative around a superstar that

gets really fickle. He's been around for a while and he hasn't won a championship yet. And we start to get impatient and we start to focus more on flaws than we do strengths. I think we see this happen a lot until a guy actually gets over the hump. But it actually, it takes this. It takes, you know, the failure. It takes being around a while. And I think, think aunt will go through it. It's just that right now, eh is in the portion that Booker was in, probably around 2020,

when all these superstars were like, yeah, I want to play with Devin Booker when LeBron's complimenting him. KD's complimenting him. Chris Paul decides that of all the options he has, he's going to go play with Book. And we're seeing Aunt get those compliments right now. We're seeing him have all this momentum behind him. But it really is.

I think it can be an unfair comparison just because of where both those guys are in their career. Do you want me to chime in on this? Absolutely. Yeah. It's like your whole thing. I actually don't even remember. I don't even remember those texts. Did we have a text conversation about this?

I don't even remember. We were just bickering about something. A lot of random conversations break out between me and Pina that don't really go anywhere. Like with me with everyone, honestly. Let's wrap up on the Sons. I mean, the same thing we did with the Spurs here. Do we think that they're going to be, are they going to flame out in a similar way? Or, you know, did they do enough really to do what Sir was talking about?

Are they in that contention threshold or are they just below? What do you all expect from the Suns? I think that the Western Conference playoffs are going to be very matchup dependent. So it's hard for me to say whether they'll win a series, lose in the first round, get to the conference finals. I think they're just so dependent on hot shooting. Like I think they need Devin Booker and Kevin Durant to have like true shooting percentages above 65 for in a seven game series for them to win. I just think their defense is still going to be so problematic. And losing Frank Vogel, who was a big part of them being near the top 10 or in the top or whatever,

I don't even know where they finished last year. First, by the way, in opposing three-point percentage from the corners. So, you know, little lucky, just going to throw that out there. But, yeah, I think their defense is going to really either comeuppance in the playoffs. And so, yeah, I agree with the fundamental. beliefs that they will not win the championship. I'll move on to my last one. Let's go to the Eastern Conference.

I was going to do the Rockets, but we were so West Heavy. I want to talk about the Orlando Magic. I know that's a subject of passion on this trio. You know, the Magic this past season, they were coming out of the bubble, they did a total, like, tear down. You know, obviously they get Palo, they get Franz. It was a team that was sort of,

I've always said that they were sort of running parallel to another Weltman experiment with the box where they were just accumulating all these just freaks and then one of them hits and then they pivot and start to focus on building around that. I feel like the big primary kind of question here is how much of a primary is Paolo, I feel like. How much is Franz better or worse than we thought? Because he came out of the gates making us think that he was going to be, there were

some arguments in the quieter spots of the internet where they were like, Franz is better than Palo. I don't know if you guys have heard that or how that makes you. feel. I've heard that. But they go out in the off season this year and they pick up Contavius Colwell Pope. I'd be curious to get your all's thoughts on that pick up. They go out and they get Christian De Silva from Colorado, who's a big guy that can space the floor and defend. What do we think that the, I'll just say, I'm excited to watch the magic because I think that they did a good job of doing what we're talking about, of maintaining their defensive identity, which I think is the thing

that is, you know, even though it was one series, they did have the best defensive rating in the playoffs and on a smaller sample. The big thing for them was solving some of these offensive questions to make Paolo's life easier. And I think they did that with the KCP signing. Do you guys expect them to level up this year? Or do you share, you know, do you share my excitement for the magic? How are you feeling about Orlando this coming year?

I'm extremely high on Orlando. I wrote about them earlier this offseason. I think that, you know, somewhat facetiously was asked. for one of our roundtables, which team is going to give the Boston Celtics the biggest run for their money this season? You would assume that question was facetious? No, my answer was facetious, but now that you say that, I agree that the question is pretty silly.

And I said the Orlando Magic because not just because I think that they match up pretty well with Boston defensively. You can go, you can have one of the best defensively. lineups in basketball, if not the best defensive lineup in basketball, with their size and their height and their length and their versatility and all that. But I just think rolling things over, like I just respect so much how they valued continuity and internal growth. And I think Paolo's going to have a monster third year.

He was an all-star in his second season. I think Franz's three-point shooting in his second season, the dip, I think will come back and level out a little bit. He's not an 18% three-point shooter as he was after the All-Star break. And I love the KCP pickup. I think KCP and Jalen Suggs is the second best defensive back court in basketball. And KCP just wins everywhere he goes. And he's super selfless.

He's an unbelievable fit overall. And like just bringing back everyone on the bench too. It was a really smart way to keep their train going. And I like the talent and I think the talent fits. I just love Orlando. I wouldn't shock me if they had just a ridiculous regular season and finished with one of the three best records in the Eastern Conference. Yeah.

I mean, honestly, I don't even think I have a lot to add to that. I'm fully in agreement with you guys. I think if anything, like one thing, you know, people talk about is like, you know, the France extension. how we feel about, you know, the money after the season he had. But honestly, I think that those guys like Paulo and Franz are such a nice yin and yang to each other. And, you know, both have a really interesting mix of like creation and playmaking ability together that I think is really complimentary, which is like hard to find on the wings.

And, you know, and then, you know, also it's just, you know, those guys could, Paulo especially could go down and kind of be considered more of a front court player down the line. I'm really curious to see how his development goes. But yeah, I mean, like they're young, they're deep. They play really good defense. And they just seem poised for the leap. They seem like, you know, like we talk about a team like Oklahoma last year, for example, where it felt like they had this embarrassment of riches in terms of, you know, young players

in terms of, you know, defensive energy just because of, you know, you don't have to pay them a lot so you can afford to keep a lot of them on the roster. I think it's just going to be a really fun year of fact-finding. for Orlando. And I'm excited to see where they shake out at the end of the season. Yeah, Orlando strikes me as a team that, like, they put out, like, a really fun EP. Like a band that put out a really fun EP. And we're like, something could happen here.

And we're just, like, waiting for the debut album. I kind of feel like that's what the magic are similar to. And I think Pina's right. I think this year, if you combine the fact. The Chapelaron of the 2024, 2025 NBA season. Hit me with the throughout. history of bands that at J. Kyle Mann that that match sort of where where the magic are. But, you know, I do think that what you're saying is true that they cumulatively have

this youth that is very hungry after, after a frustrating playoff series, which really came down to a lot of spacing. Like we said, they defended well. They've got crazy switchability and strength, like penetration. They have just, they have like, are like containment, penetration containment. And they have disruptive guys. But some of the problem is, you know, I was going back through some of Paolo's on ball reps. And if you just, you'd look at these sequences where

like, you know, Donovan and Nying and Okoro and Alan would all be within the paint because you didn't have to respect Isaac. And it just made it, you didn't have to respect Isaac. Franz couldn't hit a shot. Suggs hasn't quite been the like quarterback. I know he was an actual quarterback.

I didn't mean to slip up in coincidence there. But he hasn't been quite the offensive quarterback that they thought. And they've pivoted nicely from that and rebounded from the fact that I guess another question too is the X factor of the young guys. Do we see Anthony Black take a step forward? Do we step, you know, Jed Howard, will he get on the court at all? I think that's probably the bigger question. But overall, I think this team could make a leap forward. Where do you all think they could finish? I mean, what's the highest you could see the magic finish? Is this a 50 win team, do you think potentially? Yes. Okay. I'm confident.

I'm just really high on them. Yeah, you said you see them finishing third in the Eastern Conference. Like that's, yes, I think top three. Like I don't want to even put a ceiling on them because like the Celtics won't have KP for over half the season. And I think all their team, like the Paul George integration, the New York Knicks are going to be really good. But I just think that there's some questions with their roster and their identity. I just think Orlando comes in and they're like hitting the ground running and they're throwing in this piece, KCP, who is literally like just the most perfect free agency, like free agent two team fit that was this offseason, in my opinion. And yeah, I just think they'll be, they'll be awesome from the jump.

They know who they are. They do know who they are. I do know who they are. I think that I would almost put them above 50. I mean, like, despite everything that, you know, you said about the spacing last year, they won 47 games. Like, and didn't really have a, like, they, in a season where they were trying to figure out all these things about what they're supposed to be. Now they had a KCP. I wouldn't necessarily go and say that I think that they're going to be top three seed just because I think that the East is really stacked at the top.

Like the Celtics will sleepwalk their way towards a ton of wins regardless of KP's health. The Sixers are going to be awesome. I think the bucks are going to bounce back. Those are probably my top three in the east, but I do see them. Yeah, I mean, look, look, like I see more than a three win improvement from this team. So I think, you know, 50 games is beyond possible. It's like the bottom rung of what I think is realistic for them. It always wigs me out on their basketball reference page to see Nick Anderson in a grizzly's jersey.

I think I've said this before on their tie. Anyway, it's just always jarring for me. Who would you say the over-under team is? If we had to pick an over-under team, is it the pacer? Do you think that that's the team that's like over under Pacers? That's what I would throw. Can you define, can you define what over under team means? If we had to set like the line of like this, this team is pretty similar in terms of expectations, their ceiling is probably similar.

I think the Pacers are kind of right there. Do you think that they're, I get the impression that you think they're solidly over the Pacers. Would you say that's right? Or what do you think? I respect the Pacers. I think that the magic. I think that the magic are, I'm more high on them because I think just defense travels and defense is their identity for the regular season. I would say the Cavs actually would be my team instead of the Pacers here with the over-under team.

I'm pretty high on the calves coming into this season too, like what they did with that head coach. And I think that Evan Mobley is God. So they'll be good. There are a lot of gods. I'm a polytheist when it comes to basketball, and I would agree that Mobley is a god for sure. But it's just interesting to think about this process of reading into who a team is going to be and getting really excited about it.

And then how quick, like Siritt was saying, you're the upstart, we get excited about you, and then you hang around and we start to pick you apart. And I feel like the magic are kind of flirting. They obviously are indicating that they're ready to be more serious and make some moves here because they believe in their stars. and we'll be entering that phase where we might start to pick them apart because the calves have done that. You remember a couple of years ago the calves were like that was the like upward, you know, nod when you talk to basketball fans, but you watch the fucking calves, how good they are.

But we moved into, we were a little more cynical about them, I feel like these days. So that's going to be really fascinating to watch with the magic, I think. Before we go, can you guys, can we just give our teams, the other teams? Because we obviously don't have enough time to go into much depth about them. but just listing the other team that we're excited to watch this season. Sure. I was going to go with the Pelicans. And I wouldn't say excited as much as intrigued, curious,

just want to know what's going to happen with them. They are going into the season as of September 5th. There's still time to make a trade. Brandon Ingram is still on the roster. And Daniel Thice is slated to be their starting center. If we had more time, I would ask Kyle to do for like an in-depth scouting report on Eves Misi and how much how he feels about him potentially playing like run a jumper. We're done.

Three words. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. All right. That was that was pithy. We appreciate that right now.

But look, in, in the meantime, before they figure out what their roster is going to look like, I just think that this team has a lot of talent. They won 49 games last season without really even knowing what they are with like, like, you know, having a bunch of injuries. issues. Zion is at weight levels that we haven't seen since Duke or maybe ever. I think that's very exciting. I know that we do Zion muscle watch a lot, but it just feels different this time, dare I say, knock on wood. The degree of it. And also just after watching what he did against the Lakers before he got hurt, makes me very, very excited. It's also the most September take that you can possibly have. But look, I just, I want to see like the Zion. on at center with

B.I. at the four, Trey Murphy, Herb Jones, DeJante Murray, like, super lengthy lineup. I want to, I also want to see C. C.J. out of there.

I want to see C.J. out of there. I, like, you know, I'm curious what B.I. looks like with a, with a playmaking point guard, like, like Murray out there. Like, let's get,

I know that B.I is obviously the biggest trade name, but it's, I'm curious what they look like in the first 10, 15 games this season. and as much as I'm like, you know, everybody's sick of the B.I.

Ex-Mere, I'm sick of McCollum on that team. It doesn't make any sense. Yes, he spaces the floor, but they need a connector. They don't need a guy that's like at this juncture in his career, like six feet tall and playing fake defense. They need a connector. Brandon Ingram's the man for the job for sure.

All right. Sorry, I just had to mess with you there. I'll say mine really quickly. The rockets. I think the rockets are going to be really fun. I think they're going to be very similar to the way the magic were a couple years ago.

I think they're going to grind people into the dirt with some of their perimeter athleticism and switchability. They've got who could end up being one of the best perimeter defenders in the world and Amman Thompson. And Jalen Green, the clock is ticking. I think that's what we would have talked about because he just did not shoot the ball well and did not provide the brim pressure and efficiency that we would have liked to see. So I think this year is do or die for him.

Pina, who is your team? Memphis Grizzlies. And I am impossibly high on the Memphis Grizzlies. I think that like nothing would surprise me about them this season in a positive sense. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they finished like fourth

in the West this year or like third or fourth. Like they're going to have some of the some like some of the most nuclear epic fuck you energy that we've ever seen. Exactly. Their fans on Twitter are hilariously bitter like in ready. They're like,

y'all forgot about us and we're going to come smack you. Like what do y'all think about that? I mean, is third or fourth? Is that too high? No, I mean, Gigi Jackson, High, Zach Edy Hive, let's like, let's fucking go. You know, I'm ready for it. I'm excited.

Win the West. What do we think? Let's go wild. Win the West. If you had to put some odds on that, what do you think? Give me the Grizzlies, Thunder, Western Conference Finals. Let's go. Just give it to me right now.

I'm going to watch it. That's the one. That's the one. That's absolutely the one. Well, we were crazy to think that we were going to get through six teams. So that's great. But anyway, we got three and I enjoyed it. It's all about the, we had a lot of technical trouble on my end.

But anyway, Thanks for joining us. Thanks for listening. Enjoy this calm before the frenzy of the regular season begins. I know you guys are probably chomping at the bit at this time of the year. Cyr it, Michael, it was good to see both of you. I'll see you both soon in person and we'll catch you next time.