The Ringer NBA Show - Thunder Punch Their Finals Ticket. Can Any West Team Stop Them From Here? | Group Chat

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

Justin, Rob, and Wos react to the Thunder winning the Western Conference and advancing to the NBA Finals. They also discuss how teams could plan to stop them in the future. Then, they discuss the Wolves' offseason questions and how the roster could change this summer. Lastly, they wrap up with some quick thoughts on Tyrese Haliburton’s flawless Game 4 performance in the Eastern Conference finals, putting the Pacers one win away from the NBA Finals. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producers: Isaiah Blakely and Ben Cruz Social: Keith Fujimoto Check out Rob's latest piece on Jalen Williams. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to The Ringer NBA show presented by Fandul. America's number one sportsbook has made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game, even after tip off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the Fandual Sportsbook app and build your bet slip. Then sit back, relax, and track the outcome of your parlay right in the app. And if you don't already have it, download the Fandual app today to make every moment more. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. please visit rg dash help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details must be 21 plus and present in select

states gambling problem call 1 800 gambler or visit rg dash help dot com hello and welcome to group chat i am justin barrier and joining me rob mahoney big was i feel like we should just be piling towels on top of rob right now like they do with mark dagonal what do you think Absolutely. I'm waiting. Guys, I'm right here ready to be toweled up. I will be singing your praises and then stop on a dime to talk about how immature you're being in the same breath. Unfortunately, that was probably the highlight of tonight's game five. Victorious win for the Oklahoma City Thunder, punch the finals ticket.

The Wolf scored nine points in the first quarter and it was pretty much over from there. I guess we could go through the Uzman Jang minutes if you really want to because at this point, I feel like we've got a real robust scouting report. But why, this one seemed pretty much in hand after the big win in game four. It just seems like that carried over into this one. Yeah, there was no fight whatsoever from the Timberwolves. Got to give it to OKC. They came out and took a deadly serious and played like their lives depended on it,

particularly on defense as they have essentially the entire playoffs at this point. But I don't know. This wolf's team seemed like a team that had their bags. packed for Cabo or the Bahamas or wherever guys or South of France, wherever guys are vacationing these days. These guys had their swim trunks, nicely folded, you know, tank tops, ready, flip-flops, all of that.

The portable speaker, you know, it's all, it's all packed and ready for the vacation that these guys are about to go on. Can I follow up on that real quickly? Can we do the bagpack power rankings? Like, who was most ready to hit the jet and go straight to Cancun after this one on the wall side? I mean, Julius Randall definitely was one of them. And I got to say, Aunt Edwards, like, you know, I'm talking to some of my group chats and guys like, yo, come on, man,

like they're loading up on a guy. There's only so much he can do. I'm like, fair, but like, nah, no excuses play like a champion. Like, I'm sorry. There, like, there was a lot of turnovers, dribbling off his foot. Like, he just wasn't locked in. Obviously, I think the best defenses are going to make it way difficult on him. But guess what, man? If you're supposed to be a superstar and one of the best players in the NBA, you've got to overcome that kind of stuff, man.

You got to make the help more predictable, clunkier. Like, you got to be smarter whenever, you know, teams decide that they're going to load up on you. And I don't think Aunt did a good job of that tonight. Didn't do a good job of it, basically, all series long. And so, yeah, I think Ant was super disappointing this game and probably this entire series. Yeah, he wasn't good enough. And it wasn't just the turnovers you're talking about Waus.

It was like trying to make basic one passaway routine passes and just like getting picked off. That's not it. That's not what you want from any player on your team in this situation. It's certainly not what you want from your superstars. Aunt wasn't good enough. Julius Randall wasn't good enough. The Timberwolves were just not precise enough as a team. They are not precise enough as a team to beat a defense like this and break it

down consistently over seven games. They're going to have explosive moments. We've seen how high the wolves' highs can be. They just didn't have it in them to meticulously work the Thunder defense over and over and over and over and frankly, in their defense, I'm not sure who does. Yeah, I guess on the flip side of this, if you're going to play Devil's Advocate for the Timber Wolves, it's that the thunder seem to be growing as the playoffs go on. I feel like they're almost closing in on their final, like, complete form to the point where

in that game four. It seemed like SGA, Chet, Jdub all were working in concert in a way that they hadn't before. Like Chet in particular, it had some moments where he would be like, he would kind of coast for a quarter or two, then pop late, mostly on the defensive end. But offensively, it just seemed like all three were optimized in the way they weren't earlier in the playoffs, 95 points in that game four together tonight, 75 points. And they all had like all around games that just looks so complete. And so like, damn, was. It just, feels like the thunder just keep getting better and better, just like even when whatever obstacle gets thrown out of them this bo-season. Yeah, I think that was the coolest thing about the Denver series, honestly, is that Denver made these guys work their asses off, you know, had them flummicks with a zone now.

Like, it feels like if you throw a zone at OKC, you're making a huge mistake, right? Made them figure out, like, different ways of guarding yokech to the point where in game seven, they're like, screw it. We got Alex Caruso for his ass. Like, they just keep coming up with answers to the tests. And, you know, by the time they get to Minnesota, it's like, all right, we've seen zones. We've seen, you know, superstars go crazy. And then we come back and we make adjustments. And, you know, we've seen our guys go through streaky moments in terms of getting left wide open.

And, you know, we're staying the course this time. And I just think, yeah, going through the nuggets specifically, like, that, test was such a hard one for them and them coming out of it. And, you know, not just some of the tactical stuff that Denver did and forced them to adjust to, it's these guys having

to execute down the stretch of like three fourth quarters in a row and actually doing it. And now understanding and having the confidence that there's no situational basketball that they're going to be flummoxed by. I think that was, you know, a big deal, man. And

you know, granted, they almost lost that freaking serious. right? They did. Like, that's the thing about the playoffs. Like, they went seven games, and there were more than a few games that they came back in the fourth quarter to win.

You know, this could have been them losing in the second round all over again, but because they basically had the grit to overcome now, you know, the skies is the limit for what these guys can do. What I'm hearing from both of you, Justin, in terms of the triangulation of their stars, was in terms of that grit

and, like, forcing their way through really competitive games, announced by the Thunder officially making the NBA finals tonight. It feels like the Thunder era is officially here, finally officially here. A 68 win team, 12 and 4 in the playoffs,

the reigning MVP, an all-time defense, one of the younger rosters in the league. This is a team clearly built to be good for a long time. It's also a team that we've been kind of waiting to take these incremental steps. And Woz, for you specifically, have the Thunder shown you, Wazney Lambray, all that you need

to see. You've been a skeptic. at various points. Are you satisfied with the Thunder experience? Oh, yeah, 100%. I mean, I think this flip for me was definitely game five of the Nugget series

where they just have a monster fourth quarter that could have easily gone the other way against them. And it's like, holy smokes, like these guys are down, three, two, and now, you know, they got to win two in a row

against a team that's just beat them up a bunch of times. And the fact that they, flip the paradigm in that series. Yeah, they go on and lose to Denver in game six and have to come back and show improve in game seven. But game five of that series,

particularly the way that it happened, the way they had to be super clutch in a pivotal game like that basically flips the series on its head. That's when I was like, all right, man, the thunder are here. And, you know, I know a lot of people are going to be like, oh, the wolves were a seventh seed and blah, blah, blah. Bulls are good.

I love how we play these games. games, but the truth of the matter is people were calling the Lakers a finals team, okay? They beat the hell out of that team. Okay, look, the Lakers obviously weren't that good, but that's not what we were saying before. The wolves made them look horrible. Golden State, I think, would have probably gave them a hell of a series or sure looked like it in game one before step tweaked his hammie.

All right, cool, you can say what you want to say about that. But also, this is the same team that we said owned the Nuggets. the Nuggets, damn they beat O KC. If they played the Nuggets, many people would have been like, why shouldn't they beat the Nuggets? Like, I'm not going to sit here and poo-poo what OKC is done. Like, they've beaten people's brains in. I'm sorry. Like, they have my respect.

Now they've got to do it in the finals. We're all just saying shit. You know, we were saying shit in the first round saying that the Lakers might win the finals. We're saying shit in the second round, like Denver might win the finals. Wolves might win the finals. We're all just saying shit all the time. They all might. Yes, we all have to consider these possibilities.

We have so many podcasting hours that feel. I can't imagine being on ESPN to the point where you have to talk about whether or not a guy's home life matters about whether he's ready for the moment. Like there's just a lot going on simultaneously. So I get it. But I think the through line for all of us was that the thunder looked dominant. Pretty much from the start of the season, even after losing their centers. and they look dominant at the right on the precipice of the finals right now. Do you have a take on that though, Justin, on the state of the family man and the NBA,

vis-a-vis the decline of the nuclear family in America. Yeah, exactly. Now, we want to talk about America. I think everyone should be opening to a lot of different opportunities, is what I would say. That's what I've learned in my time here in the Pacific. I respect that about you. Opportunistic. That's what we say at this time of year.

Well, the thunder have certainly been that. They have taken every opportunity in front of them. They forced quite a few. As far as like drilling down on why this series went the way it did, total turnovers in this series. 87 for the wolves, 67 for the thunder. Points off of those turnovers, 108 points for the thunder off of wolves' turnovers, 77 from Minnesota. 31 point swing on the turnovers alone in this series. That's kind of the whole thing.

and it's just it's impossible to watch OKC play and not think, at least for me, this just seems like the worst team to possibly play against. Like the absolute like games from hell are the games where you can't even get the ball inside the three point line because the pressure and the ball hawks are just, they're everywhere. It feels like every pass someone could descend on it. And the thunder have that effect on you psychologically.

I thought it was really telling in this game that not only are they picking off passes, not only are they catching Julius Randall from the blind side. Like, Nas Reid is dribbling off. his own foot. They are just in these guys heads to a degree that I think is self-destructive at a certain point for the wolves. Yeah, I don't necessarily believe in this concept of a leave, right? Like, I kind of think that humans aren't a fixed asset and things just fluctuate all the time. Like teams that we thought were just going to like all of a sudden go from this point to the next point. It really like continues down that continuum. It's all like, it's a

roller coaster, man. It's a flux. So you don't believe in actual human progress. just sinusoidal fluctuation. I do in the broad sense, but perhaps not without some fluctuations along the way. It's not a clear A to B, right? There's going to be some jostling in between. But I have to say, like, in the midst of this particular run, it's been hard to argue the contrary,

especially because of the way that it is bash the wolves here, but also the way that like even home court has become advantage for them. So like after that big triumphant game four, they give the best performance probably I've seen from this core, Heymaker for Haymaker, you would think like, oh, maybe there's a letdown coming. They came out and just knocked the shit out of the wolves from minute one in that game to the point where, yeah, Nas fell over like twice within the first three minutes. Overall, home court for the Thunder, which I think is going to be a big thing going forward

wads. Like, they have lost one game so far in OKC in the playoffs. That was the OT game against Denver, game two. which Gordon hit the three to send it into overtime. So like good luck to Indiana, whomever comes next because that's like another advantage that we're piling on top of all the progress. Yeah, I mean,

Trey Young said they're a lot louder than MSG. So I believe in the home court. Son of Oklahoma, who better to believe than Trey Young? I do love that arena. That arena rocks. An incredible playoff crowd, genuinely. As have most of the final four,

this has been a great group of home crowds that elevate exponentially in the playoffs, right? Like Minnesota, that's been a hotbed of disgusting basketball for so long. They have just seized on the opportunity with this team being good. And I want to say this about the wolves too. Like, they disappointed tonight in a huge way. They did not show up. Basically everyone except maybe Terrence Shannon just like did not do their job to an adequate degree.

I also wanted to make sure we acknowledge that even with that being said, this is a really cool run for the wolves. This is still a good result. Like getting to the Western Conference finals in back-to-back seasons is an incredible accomplishment. And we're seeing, you know, where the limitations are for this group, which is a different one from last year after reshuffling Kat for Julius Randall and Dante DiVincenzo and all the other kind of smaller moves along the way. But you've seen the highs. Like we've seen how incredible this team can be, how formidable their defense can be. Some of the, you know, the growth, although it's not necessarily in a straight line that Anthony Edwards has made over the course of these playoffs, he's just not quite up to the Thunder defensive standard yet.

And that's okay, but I'm still really impressed by this Wolf's run. Yeah, I mean, to get back what Justin was saying earlier about leaps and stuff, I think, you know, so long as Jalen Williams, the wing and Shea and Chet are on this team, it would be hard for anybody to convince me that they won't be a threat to make the NBA finals and win it, right? To me, that's a leap. Like, that's a big deal, right? and I thought we were getting there with Dallas last year.

You know, but like Minnesota, it's funny because I think OKC, Presti deserves a lot of credit for, all right, cool. Like, nobody knew Shea was going to turn it to the best player in the NBA. But, like, you know, drafting two guys and Jaylon Williams and Chet that seem like franchise cornerstones. And, you know, now they got a bunch of picks so they could always fill out the roster for cheap. That's a nice big deal. Like, they're never going to be able to do a Hartenstein move again,

but whatever, they might not have to, you know. Just draft. Yeah. And, and look, they haven't won the championship yet, whatever. Minnesota's been to the conference finals two years in a row, like, what are we

saying is the core of that success? Anthony Edwards, Rudy Gobert, too, I think, is part of that core, although a more complicated piece. Are we saying that? I think the better question is, is like, would they have been better off keeping Cat around and having a Cat Edwards core going forward versus what they did, which has opened up options in order to figure things out on the fly? I ultimately kind of defer to that one, if only because we're seeing kind of the messy situation you get with Cat where he's so awesome at times. And he was great this season, probably his best all-around performance this regular season.

He's going to make all-M-B- or he did make all-M-B-A for that reason. But you get into this situation where it's like, oh, do we go double? bigs, do we have them at center and just basically punt defense? I think once you get to this level of competition, you're going to keep finding yourself. Yeah, I think it's tough with the bigs that they have, you know, not just cat presents that problem. But yeah, Julius Randall kind of sometimes does too. Nas Reid certainly does too these tethers of like, do we need to go inside or out? Like, do we need to prioritize offense or defense? Do we need ultimately like to get more actual playmaking on the floor? You know, Ant did not deliver in this game and certainly did not exert himself in a creative

capacity to a really impressive degree. It's also just like really hard for him to do anything against this Thunder defense. And some of that is because the secondary creation, you're either going with Nasreid, who we said is dribbling off his foot in this game, Julius Randall, turn the ball over a ton throughout this series, or Mike Conley, who's just outclassed athletically when you play a team like the Thunder. It just like does not have a lot he can offer off the dribble. Those are like the next best creative options for the walls once you get past Ant.

Or you get into like Nikiel Alexander Walker. or Dante de Vincenzo territory. And those guys had great moments in the series, but you don't want them dominating the ball. It's going to be hard for the wolves to get past this point so long as Julius Randall, even at his best, is like the second best player on this team. I just think they're going to keep bumping up against this limitation

unless they happen to meet opponents in the playoffs who can't exploit some of the inattention in his game. You know, some of the fact that he can be a little sloppy with the ball, that he can get a little wild at his passes, that he can get a little loose with his dribble. It's just you can't have two-ststranding. that both do that. And Ant does that,

but he earns it with everything else. Julius Randall does it. He's very productive. But we've seen, even in this run, kind of what the cost of some of that productivity

could be. Yeah. Who's his running mate? Because as we've seen, even if we're not going to a big... Rudy Colbert, according to Rob Mahoney. That's the problem. Even I'm not going that far.

He's the second pillar of the franchise. I think it's Jamil Daniels. And unfortunately, as much progress as he made his postseason offensively, he's just not going to be that type of guy that you could turn to as a number two. And so like they almost have everything else figure it out.

They have the depth. We could talk about that later when we assemble the war room because they're going to have to make some pretty key decisions this off season. But they have just a lot of stuff in order to supplement. I think one of the big reasons they made it as far is that they go eight deep. And so it's like nice to have a Dante D. Vincenzo. Everyone would love that player. But unfortunately, like he's like a guy you're counting on. Then it gets a little if anything like he seemed out of whack pretty much this entire postseason.

He just didn't seem consistent enough. Yeah. I almost wonder if he's just like used to only playing 40 minutes a game in the low season that actually like downsizing to like 20 just completely threw him off. But you're right. He's got to get the lather up before he can hit shots. You know, you really got to get it going. It's a lather score. Yeah.

So it's weird. They almost have everything figured out except for that like one number two pillar next to aunt. And I don't know how they get that because that seems like the hardest question of all. It's going to be tricky. I mean, it's been tricky for the thunder have wrestled with that question, right? of like is is jdub going to be that guy for for them or not and he has proven i think you can go kind of up and down their lineup and up and down their roster probably even in the broader organization if you wanted to and say like how did these guys kind of prove it this postseason mark dagnall

out coat has had incredible coaching moments throughout these playoffs shea has solved as we've addressed like all of the puzzles that have been presented him throughout these rounds all of the defenses all of the coverages that an MVP would face double or not zone or not every kind of variation thereof, and I think is ultimately found himself through it better for it, more evolved, even more creative than he's ever been before. Jalen Williams has established himself as that second star, has had tremendous moments in this series in particular delivering offensively and defensively. I think for Chad, the question was like, can he show up in every matchup, right? Does he have a way against big teams? Does he have a way against small teams? And he's found ways to do that. The supporting

cast has hit all the shots they need to hit has defended their asses off. It's like everyone for the thunder is delivered. I think you could say that for the wolves for certain members of the roster, for certain portions. Otherwise, it's like there's gaps here, there's gaps there, there's areas that they still need to improve. And that's just reality in the NBA. Yeah.

Before we turn our attention to the wolves in their offseason, I have three lists for you guys, all involving Oklahoma City, because I had a whole lot of time in order to dig deep in the crates here. Let's do historical perspective first. So, teams that have. had two separate cores making it to the NBA finals over the past quarter century. So since the year 2000, these teams have had one core and then no other players from that team have made it back to the finals.

Okay. We could do it as a quiz. Do you guys have? I got some guess. The Miami Heat are won. Miami or one. Yep. They had three.

So Shaq Wade, Heedles. And then Jimmy, you could pick either the Heedels. or Shaq Wade. I believe they're the quickest turnaround to Heedols to Jimmy, and obviously a lot of that was free agency. Are the other two Dallas and the Lakers? Dallas and Lakers are up there. So obviously Shaq Kobe, Kobe Powell,

LeBron and AD, and then Mavs last year in the 2011 team. There's one more in addition to the Thunder being the new. I'm looking at the answers because I didn't know it was a quiz. I was looking at the answer key. I'm just looking at the answer key. I'm just looking at the freaking rundown thinking it was just a rundown situation. It's an obvious team, though. The Spurs?

No, they don't technically count just because Duncan was there for all. Oh, the Celtics. Yeah, the Ubuntu. Of course. Well, but the spirit of Ubuntu was there for both titles. So I don't think that one counts. It's there for all of us. So that is five teams in total who have made it back.

So this is rarefied air. Now, technically, if the Pacers make it, I expect them. to at this point. Yeah. As we're recording this on Wednesday night, they would make it as well just because 2000 was the Pacer's Reggie Miller. Jermaine O'Neill was the best player on the team, but Jalen Rose was probably the second best player on that team,

which is just kind of insane to even consider. This game we saw tonight had some unspeakable violence in it, just in terms of how dominant one team was over the other. I got to say some of those Pacer's teams that made the finals and then had to Guard Shack, it didn't go great. You know, like, I think, even at the latest stages of competition, things can get very, very ugly. So six franchises, though, who have done that.

It just, it's crazy that the Thunder have been able to reboot so quickly. Like, you just don't see it that often. And, like, this could be the start of something with the Thunder. Okay. So that's historic. I be curious, too, like, how many of those teams we'd have to think about have the same executive for both of those runs. All right.

The same GM or the same person running basketball ops. Like, Pat Riley would presumably be one. Dallas turned over No Mitch Cup check did not I guess Yeah so I guess Sam Presti and Pat Riley Are the only two on that list Who's like run the same way fundamentally

By the same people the whole time Yeah doesn't happen often Next one Biggest offseason trades So from this past off season I guess I sent you guys a list If you want to bruise that in the chat there So I think obviously we would say the cat

For Randall Dante Deep Vengeza would have to be number one, considering that it spurred two separate teams into that. I mean, I see a lot of people poo-pooing the Sabonis Halliburton, like, win-win trade idea. And rightfully so, because it seems like Sabonis is going to get shot, but actually might not actually get traded because nobody wants them. This one, it seems like everybody won. Everyone caught what they wanted. So I have to say that that is number one. But after that, I got to wonder if Caruso-Forgiddy is,

looking pretty good for the thunder considering what happened. I just want to say I've never seen Woz so delighted, Justin, as when you said that nobody wants to bond a sub bonus. I've been saying this for three years, but whatever, it is what it is. Seems like a nice guy. He doesn't. He seems like a girl according to that documentary that I watched two episodes of. Congratulations to both of them. So are you seeing, I mean, obviously the Caruso part of this is huge.

I assume, Justin, you're also saying the giddy part of this is of great consequence. Yeah, I think I'm looking at more from like one side of this. Like what had the biggest impact on the season and maybe even going forward? I think the other options, Bridges obviously to the Knicks. Obdia to the Trailblazers, the new star. We see you sneaking it in. Dejante Murray for the Dyson Daniels trade, which is probably now the Dyson Daniels trade. And then Tim Ardaway Jr. for Grimes, Chris Dunn, sign in trade, DeRosen, to the Kings, Clay Thompson to the max.

It's got to be crusoe, though, I think. I think Bridges is a more important player for the Knicks, but the Knicks aren't the odds on favor to dominate to win the NBA championship, right? So maybe the Caruso was the more important move because particularly against Denver, man. And again, you know, Denver might end up being the most competitive series that they had this postseason.

Caruso made so much. many huge, timely buckets. So many threes this guy made that if he wasn't hitting those shots, it changes the geometry of the court. And now you don't have one of your best defenders out there and makes you way more vulnerable to this Denver offense. And so I think the Caruso thing can't be overstated. He's been incredible this postseason.

I think one of the questions coming in was like, are him and Lou Dord going to make shots? you know, in order to keep their defensive integrity as the most amazing defense in the NBA. They're not that without Lou Jordan Caruso doing what they do. And so, you know, him being able to stay on the floor while being a, because he could be a consistent shooter, incredible. All right. He's like well over 40% for these playoffs from three. Obviously a good playmaker.

Obviously a good transition player. But I think you're right to point out Bridges too, Waz. Like those two guys, not, I don't think either of these teams. the Thunder or the Knicks would be in these positions. And I say that just like to advance even this far without those guys. And the luxury of Alex Caruso is not just guarding Nicole Yokic in the second round. It's that you get to play him bigger than his size in this series. And Isaiah Hardinstein plays like 16, 17 minutes a game by the end of it.

Like he's just functionally not an important part of the Thunder rotation because of the matchup. Alex Crusoe is always going to be an important part of the matchup. There's always someone for him to guard, bigger, small. There's always someone for him to chase or hound or help him. away from a player like that. I mean, I don't understand why the Bulls traded him away the way they did for the price that they did. But the Thunder are reaping all the benefits.

That's for sure. I think the balls are doing okay. Are they much? I think Caruso might fall into the Josh Hart All-Stars where it's like regular season three-point shooting. It's like, but I would set my life on that guy. If you pay him an open look in a playoff game, it's like him. Nemhart, I guess, has to be on the current roster there.

Anybody else were missing? well, Neesmith. Well, Neesmith has gone from like, you know, a pretty good, very solid three-point shoot in the regular season to, I don't know, Steph Curry's, like, whatever goes to Steph Curry channels to be as good as he is, that's who Aaron

Neesmith is. Yeah, so I would probably rank those Cat Caruso Bridges. Sounds like you guys might fluctuate on one, two. Yeah, but I think Caruso and Bridges are in the same bracket, ultimately. Avdaa, right after that? I mean, to indulge you,

Yes. Last list I have the most popular dog names in Oklahoma City 2025. Is it Shay, Chet, Lou, Caruso, or Nick Gallo? Oh, Nick Gallo is a great name for a dog. But towels over the dog. You guys are a dog people. You got to tell me the etiquette here because I would feel like it's disrespectful to name a dog. after somebody you actually like.

I know I know that sounds mildly racist, but I promise. No, that's why I'm asking. I'm like, this is out of my cultural depth. Yeah. There's a lot of Kempas in Connecticut

based off of that run. Yeah. Okay. So like it's an homage, really to somebody that you love. Whereas for me, I'm like, you're calling me a dog,

you know? You're telling me, if a loyal group chat listener named their pet was, you wouldn't take that as a compliment? Yeah. Oh, a group chat listener?

Yes. Well, that's the equivalent, right? What about a cat? What if it's a cat, not a dog? What if it's like an anonymous hater on Twitter? It's like, yeah, I name my dog was. If there's a hater out there

who names their dog waz because they hate waz so much that we just have to respect it. Like, that's a level of hating that we have no choice but to accept. You're a Batman villain at that point. That level of hating. I kind of like Lou.

I mean I think Lou is is the one for sure The simple axiom is like who has the most dog in them and it's either through a Lou Dorr or an Alex Crusoe question

and so whichever way actually it's got to be Lou Gens right you got to go full name Lukeens that's on the first certificate but you know you're giving

negative names you're absolutely right basis I guess j-dub doesn't roll off the tongue even though he is the spawning of the dog barking thing that kind of phased out for the towels this year

so it's true been replaced a bit over bit now. Anything else on the Thunder you guys want to hit here after we've covered all the dog names now? Well, I'd say, Justin, great lists. Good trivia. Thank you. Fun time. Thank you very much.

Good job. I'm having a great time. Good job on the list, bro. It doesn't sound as just compliment for what I said. All right. Cat list coming during the variables 2025.

I got a preview of the new variable song, by the way. How are you feeling about it? I fucking love it. We're doing variables before the season's over. You already got this for... It's the finals variable. Yeah, pre-finals variables.

My bad. My bad. Justin, if you... Hand up. My bad. I forgot about that. If you could give us one word, Justin, word association style to describe the new variables theme. What would you give us? Banger? All right. I mean, look, I'm not

going to argue with a banger. How about this? If you want something a little bit more specific to the tone here, beep boop, hyphenated. Hyphenated. Could you use that in a sentence? You're a beep boop guy. Oh, thank you. Yeah, right.

I thought you were making robot noises, so I'm like, is this like a daft punk type of? Oh, it is. Oh, I'm going to say, yeah, that'd be, that'd be right in our zone. I'm thinking. I'm like, is this a daft punk reference? A little, a little, but think earlier. Think earlier.

Earlier than daft punk. Okay. Yeah. No, Rob just challenged my grammatical acumen and I had to turn it into a challenge.

I was just, I'm doing the spelling here. Use it in, get the country of origin Yeah. All right. Why don't we flip to the war room

now with Minnesota? We talked about this. One thing about the war room. I think we're going to extend this bit, I'm sure, to the next office. We need a graphic of us. Yeah.

like, but like in the form of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama in the bin Laden mission. Oh. War room. You've seen that picture before. Yeah. Who else is in the room was? Like who like if we're going like full T&T gone fishing with this? Like who else are we photoshopping into the war room with us? We put in Keith in there. Got to be. Ben Cruz. Isaiah Blakely.

Eduardo. Because he'd be stepping up. Definitely. Every now and again. Your cat? on video more than any of those guys. Yeah. She's a fucking member of the cast. I'm imagining a random guy in that room in a suit with a Mimi head superimposed over. Like this image is going to really pop off.

I thought you were going to suggest costumes. And I was like, oh. But war room costume. Just like general. Five going on here. Oh, God. Yeah, what are you guys thinking costume-wise for when the Pacers do make the NBA finals? Like, what are the two of you going to do to repent to honor the Pacers, do you think?

I don't know. What's an Indiana centric kind of thing? Overalls? Should I get like some overalls or something? Doesn't IU do like a red pinstriped pants kind of situation? We can look into that. We'll have to see kind of what the overlap is on Hoosier Nation and Pacer Nation. I suspect a lot. But I don't know if there's like a Purdue rivalry in there that I need to be mindful of.

I'm trying to just dodge landmines. I think HR might have some thoughts on us going like with pants shots for the full body shots for some of these Zoom things. I think we'll be okay. Okay. No, I still owe for the Spurs. So we have to cash in the show. I don't think we did, we didn't

do costume for, for Pacers. You never had a Pacer's bet. I'm not saying we had a bet. I'm just saying I feel like you two need to like prostrate yourselves. Show some respect to the genuine face. To the future Eastern Conference champions. That's all. I'll have to borrow one of Waz's black tanks and we'll

to do a black time. That was insane, by the way, that they gave him the mic at the game. And he's like calling out I appreciate it. I don't know. I don't think so. There's a little too much to me.

Like, I love that Timmy and Siller now, like everybody's favorite buddy duo, but like they're showing them every five minutes on the broadcast. Our guys are flying across the country to come to hang out with their team and watch the games. Like,

what's wrong with that? I think the millions of dollars that they have. and, you know, everything else is probably enough of a reward. That's fair. They don't need the screen time. All right. Minnesota War Room. We're assembled.

Just envision costumes or this war room photo, if you'd like. Big off season, kind of quickly happening despite the fact that they traded Carl Towns just on the precipice of the season. So Randall, technically a free agent, he has a player option for about 31 million Nazaree, 15 million player option. In Akeel, Alexandria, Walker, unrestricted free agent. So, Waz, if you're looking at that list,

Randall, Nause, Nikiel, how would you prioritize those guys? Because I have a hard time believing they're going to be able to bring all three back. It's funny because it feels like the entire point of bringing Julius Randall

in was to not bring him back. Right? It was like, we're paying the hell out of cat. He almost wasn't supposed to be this. good, if that makes sense. Like to be, that he'll now be quite expensive, I would think, to bring back. But think about it, though, Rob, like, if you pay this guy 45 million or 40 million or whatever it's going to take to keep him, and you keep Nas Reid, and you lost, got your

doors blown off just like you did the year before, now you've renewed that same amount of long-term commitment and money. Like, tell me how this is more logical. than what they did to let go of Kat last year. It just doesn't fit. Like, Cat had so much money committed years into the future, big, big money. Now it's like it would be the same amount. Maybe you could get these guys to sign for three instead of four.

Okay. Yeah. I think the trade off with the hopeful tradeoff with that deal as it stands now is that maybe you can get both Julius Randall and Nas for something slightly more than cat money. And if they had Cat at his figure, which is 50 to 60 million, ranging over the next three years, I don't know that you necessarily would or could bring back Nasreed in the same way. But here's the thing, though. Nasreid has a player option for $15 million. He certainly does.

Julius Randall's play option is for 31, right? Yep. That's already 45 with no raises on this extension. If they could kit them at those rates, they'd be thrilled, but they will not. That's what I'm saying. Like it's not going to happen. Oh, no, it's going to be more. Yeah.

Well, here's the question, though. Who are they bidding against for Randall, despite his pretty electric postseason up until this series, like, who's looking at that and being like, that's the guy that we need? And so if there's not as much competition, can you get him at more of a bargain than you think? He could also be like sign and trade me.

Just let me trade me. Let me go. and I'll go to a team. I'll pick up my option, go to another team that has some respect for what I do, a team that might respect

the fact that I carried them to a conference finals. Yes. I find myself leaning toward Waz's way of thinking. I hate to really turn on Julius Randall after we've come so far with him,

but I almost wonder if we're saying to ourselves like he really wasn't able to push them over the top. They're in the over-the-top business and maybe they should look at using him as a more palatable expiring contract to make more of an upgrade.

Like if you have enough other stuff, Dillingham picks, whatever it might be to entice the Sons, for instance, Kevin Duran. Kevin Durant's like, I only want to go to the Timberwolves to play with Ant. He's my boy from Team USA, et cetera, et cetera. Then it's like, oh, the Sons might be like, oh, we could use Randall for a year and then just let him go. That, honestly, might be the best case scenario, which is tough because I feel bad. Randall's been good, but I just don't see it long term.

He's earned a new deal. If earning deals is such a thing in the NBA, it would seem that he's earned one. I completely agree. I think those plans, I think, are worth considering for sure. But at the same time, you have to be very careful about throwing that to Julius Randall to say, what do you think about playing for the Phoenix Suns? Because if it is going to be a trait, he has to buy in on it.

He either, he has to pick up that option in order to make it possible in the first place. That's dicey, just like from a... The sons would have to promise him money. Like, why am I helping you execute? Like, it's going to get complicated or it's just going to either it gets complicated in that way. Or they just go with what it seems like they wanted to do, which is get Kat's money off their books. I don't think they can let Julius Randall just walk. The other factor we should mention here is it does seem like everything's aligned with the ownership changed now, whereas before.

it was in flux. And so maybe they're more likely to add money because that ownership group was the one pushing for the Gobert trade in the first place in order to put their books in the position where they ultimately had to trade cat. So different situation for the ownership group. But in terms of Naz and Nikiel, Rob, if you had to make a choice, gun to your head, you can only keep one. You keep it. I don't think, unfortunately, for the wolves, there's going to be a choice. I don't think they will be able to resign Nikil Alexander Walker. they can really only re-sign him using his bird rights.

And unfortunately for them, Nikiel Alexander Walker is on an exceedingly reasonable contract. So I think the best they can offer him is somewhere in the ballpark of like $8 million. That's not going to work. Not going to be nearly enough. Nikol Alexander Walker's appeal throughout the league I think will be quite high.

Every team could use Nikiel Alexander Walker. He's not going to break the bank in a way that a Julius Randall will. I don't know that the wolves are going to be able to logistically get it done unless they rework their books in a really significant way. So then you come back to Nas almost by default, but also you should want Nas read back on your team. He's a really good player. What's a reasonable number?

25. Yeah, that was kind of where I was thinking, 25-ish. And maybe he is the kind of player who might take some kind of discount for the sake that, like, he is a beloved Timberwolf and has really come into his own with that organization as a member of that community, like has a really good thing going in a way that I could see someone like him not giving away the, farm, but like giving a little

back for the sake of thing. Four years, 90? Sure. Give him the IP to his typeface. As you damn well should. To the beach towel. She should be in a commission on these damn beach towels. You know? The IP on the merge. Oh, God. So do we like, I mean, let's say that's

the team. Just Randall and Nas back, but we cut off one of our key rotation players, especially in this series. Like, well, this is where like the Terran Shannon minutes aren't just cute. It's like, you need Terran Shannon to be good. You need someone who's going to step into Nikiel's role.

What did you think about those seven minutes for Rob Dillingham at the end of this one? Not scintillating, but... Not the best rookie season I've ever seen. No. I'll say. And I had some hopes for him coming in, but...

And, you know, his minutes were super inconsistent. But he is tiny, dude. Real below to the short kings between him and Reed Shepard. Just getting no minutes this year. It's tough. I don't know how he fits in too Like you're just assuming he's going to be the energy score off the bench next year

I didn't see anything from this year that would suggest that like All of a sudden all those height issues are just going to correct themselves What do we think about being you know like yeah we're in a matchup based league We gotta pray somebody else takes those guys out And we like our matchup against the rest of the West I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to say it's just traditionally how teams have built themselves when I think about, you know,

what Mori did in Houston, when everybody was scared at a KD Warriors, and he was like, screw that, we're going to all in on a super switchable team and, you know,

like have this wing heavy kind of rotation and whatever, we're going for it. And they even took them seven games and all of that stuff. Traditionally, that's what teams would do. The Knicks, going like, yo, we got to bring in elite wings and trade all these picks for bridges

because we got to match up against Boston. It would seem that running this team back is not them trying to match up against OKC. No. But how does one match up with OKC? I think a lot of the weaknesses that the Thunder supposedly had are being taken off the board. It used to be like, oh, if you're a good enough rebounding team,

you can bully the Thunder. Well, that didn't work. If you're a big enough team, maybe you could stifle them inside. with your defense. Well, that didn't work. Maybe you could dare their role players to shoot. Maybe you could match their athleticism. That hasn't really worked either. None of these teams have been able to figure out how you match up with a defense like OKC's.

I hear you about like the Warriors comp. I do think there's something really admirable about targeting specific needs that can challenge specific contenders if you know you have to run through them. I think the wolves have done that really successfully when they thought Denver was the number one team they needed to deal with. I just don't know what you do with the Thunder. I don't know how you target them in a very specific. way. And so then I think you do default to like, this team is good enough to push an incredible

wide variety of Western Conference opponents with Julius Randall as a part of it, with Nasreed as a part of it. That may cost you $40 million a year for Julius Randall to make that happen. The number I kept coming back to was the three year $120 million extension that Brandon Ingram just got. That's now two Brandon Ingram invocations on podcast in May. I apologize. Raptors fans love it. I heard more about that. like two minutes at the end of last podcast and anything else. Look, when you're one of those teams at this time of year

and you're like neither heavy into the draft nor heavy into the NBA playoffs, like you got to take the crumbs you can get. It's bleak. Well, can I interest you in what I'm now calling the long window theory, which is what I kind of proposed to you guys last week in a very meandering conversation? But basically, just be the best you could be

and then see what happens. And I do think, like, let's say, for instance, everything went the same, for the wolves. Oh, all of a sudden, in game seven, Shet sprained his ankle, bad high ankle sprained. Can't play in this series.

Well, windows open for you. Because they're on that level, all they need is just the right breaks and the way that it kind of has worked out for the Pacers. And so it's just like, be all that you can be. Or like,

or like Shay and J. Dove, like fall out over a gambling debt or something. That would be sick, actually. Word. You're right. I tend to agree with you, Justin. I think sometimes we see these, outcomes is overdetermined.

You know, like, yeah, the wolves look completely horrible against this team and this matchup, but I'm sorry, man, it's the NBA. I think teams can figure out, like, yo, if this is the target, we can come up with better ways of being competitive against them. I truly believe that. I don't, I don't think

like OKC is this unsolvable problem. They're not the KD Warriors. I do not believe that, right? Like, where it's like, look, guys, these guys are healthy. You guys are going to get your doors blowing off every single time, despite the matchup.

I don't think that's the truth. And maybe some of it is just like, yo, we're, you know, we keep our continuity together. We keep our talent relatively high to all of our peers. And, you know, we go into the offseason with a target no longer on Denver, but on OKC and a mindset of like,

how do we beat what OKC is so fantastic at. Justin, there's like a Napoleonic battle strategy that is attuned to this. You just show up and you keep showing up and you see what happens every time out. This is advancing into Russia territory. But I guess my question as far as like the long window theory is that we're dubbing it?

How is this different than normal? Like what are we changing into this particular theory? I think what's different is the sort of NBA online discourse that if you're not championship worthy, then you're wasting your time. Which I think that theory, which I've always thought was stupid, is not true. Like, if, like, because if you would have applied that to the Pacers, they wouldn't be going to the NBA championship right now.

Right? Like, you would be like, oh, this Halliburton thing, like, he's not even a superstar. And they need to think they need to stop, you know, circling the drain in the middle and blah, blah, blah. That's what people would have said traditionally about the Pacers team. And guess what? Boston goes down. The Knicks ain't ready. we're going to be in the finals because we've coalesced, you know, as a unit and we have all of this continuity and chemistry and, you know, these parts fit so complimentary of each other.

And now we're on the precipice of the finals. And I think, yeah, man, I think that's a rebuke of what people would have said in the past where, you know, you're treating the actual NBA as if it's a video game and you just simulate through seasons and it's not like real life. I think there's two things that have changed within the past two years or so. One, injuries seem to be up on mass. It just seems harder to play longer minutes in the regular season. And so if injuries are piling up, maybe things fluctuate a little bit more. The second thing is obviously the CBA is designed specifically to crack down on teams that are top-heavy that are built in order to aggregate stars. And those teams are typically looking to narrow, like to land a narrow window.

if you just give yourself a long track record in the way that the Thunder are, the way that the Spurs could if they decide to draft Dylan Harper at you as opposed to trade for Janus, then it's just like we might have a 5D eight-year stretch. Things could happen. We're not going to be number one in the Vegas odds every year. Maybe we will. Maybe we won't. But you're just going to be competitive.

I mean, it's really just what the Spurs did early on, which the Warriors tried to replicate. Unfortunately, the Warriors were a little bit more splintered between two different errors. if you have all of your guys generally on the same timeline and you're supplementing veterans that aren't key to the core, I think you could just keep piling on different versions of the same team. That seemed to be the working theory in addition to the money with the wolves. We're an aunt team. We're going to be an aunt team for as long as possible.

Let's just make sure we have options along the way. Yeah. I think that makes sense. And I think as far as the length of that window, too, one of the things we're seeing with the teams that are breaking through, the thunder in the NBA finals, the Pacers are on the brink of the NBA finals. That means a team is going to win the title, if the Pacers do in fact make it,

that is either led by a 26-year-old superstar or a 24-year-old superstar. Like, maybe the avenue for the younger teams to bust through is there in a way that it never was before. And by virtue of that, then you have the longevity of this window. And that's where the Thunder is just scary as hell. And I think part of the reason why this feels like the Thunder era kind of opening was is not necessarily because they're unbeatable a la the KD Warriors. It's because they have all this stuff. as Justin alluded to on last pod

this is probably the worst that they're going to be because these young guys are going to continue to get better in the near future. But they got to get paid. Remember that. This is the cheapest team in the league. For sure. I would say the timing of their contracts

is as amenable to the current CBA as any team outlook in the league. And they have something that almost no other contender does, which is all of those picks to replenish kind of the young rotation talent. It seems clear at this point they don't necessarily have designs to trade for a star and like a big swing trade,

they just want to eventually trade for the next case in Wallace or the next Aaron Wiggins. You know, it's like they're going to replace those guys over time is what's most likely. On that point, I was actually doing some digging today because I might try to write up this long window theory because I'm really trying to own this territory at this point.

It's your corner. I don't think that, but yeah. We really need to dig into what you're doing on your off time with this research. I don't think the Thunder have traded a first round pick. at the very least since Chris Paul, maybe dating back to since the Paul George trade for a player, like in order to get a veteran in house.

When they trade first, it's usually to move around in the draft to get the guy that they want. They aren't adding veteran players. If anything, they're just trying to nail draft picks into Rob's point. Like, they're trying to actually develop a feeder system to the point where it's like,

oh man, Lou Dork can't pay him this year. Caruso and Casem Wallace right there. Or like, you need a backup point guard up, Nicola Toppich is just like hanging out, like, flying on an iPad. Insane that he's right there. Like one of like a really a much value hood prospect who we talked about a lot in the expansion

draft because he was really coveted for exactly those kinds of purposes because the thunder are so stacked, Nicola Tobit's just sitting right there. Could be a member of the future of the thunder? Maybe not. I have no idea. But the fact that they have that at their disposal is insane. So Keith Smith had this stat on Twitter right before we jump down here. if it is indeed Pacers Thunder,

that would be the first NBA final since the luxury tax was instituted that neither team is a taxpayer. Fascinating. I feel like that's pretty telling because I think the league is largely dictated by legalese in the CBA in all those documents.

It is literally a brief that dictates human behavior. And they have said, we want teams, we want parity, but we also want teams that build like this, I think it's telling that soon after the new CBA is instituted, we get two of these teams. That doesn't feel like a mistake. So the new market inefficiency in the modern NBA,

paralegals, you need someone combing through that paper. You know, like Control F, chat GPT, it's not going to get it done anymore. Like, you need real manpower. I'm here. I'm open for a part-time job, but I'm not gardening.

I'm done. The Timberwolves are relevant to this discussion, too, though, because if they commit to, let's say two of those three guys we talked about. Julius Randall, Nassarid, Nikol Alexander Walker. If they commit to two of those guys,

they are effectively committing to be, I think, a second apron team for the foreseeable future, at least the first apron team. The finances can wiggle a little bit depending on how they manage their roster. So it's like they could be not quite locked into that group,

but put into a little bit of a corner as far as improving upon what they already have. Do you guys want to talk a little Pacers mix before we go here? I guess we have to. we have to we have to we're not twisting your arm was

it's not an arm twist it's like is the is the outcome in doubt here like is there anybody who thinks this thing isn't over I want to bring joy to your guys's life and I know this makes Rob happy it does

if we're coming off of the probably best performance of the playoffs and by far the best performance of Tyre's Halliburton's career like I feel like we should give them a little time here oh yeah

what a game like the The piling up assists with zero turnovers is preposterous on its face. The fact that the team echoes that basically when he's on the floor, like not just him making plays, but everyone else committing very few turnovers as well. We're talking about this little bit pre-show, but it's going to be very fascinating if the Pacers and the Thunder end up meeting in the NBA finals,

all the turnovers at the Thunder Force, all the turnovers that the Pacers do not commit. But Tyreys Halliburton has evolved in a way as an ice of score, as a creator off the dribble, as someone who's pressing his luck driving inside and even finishing against Biggs, another guy who's kind of met every test and answered a lot of the fundamental questions

about his game. I will say, especially something we're not talking about a lot with his box store contributions, which if I'm not mistaken, were like unprecedented, save for Nicole Yokich and Will Chamberlain or something. I can't remember who's the third. Proposterous territory.

Yeah, yeah, it might have been that. Defensively. I think he has stood up to the test defensively. The Knicks target him. They go at him. that's going to happen whenever you're a star, he has not proven to be Luca Donchich, where he flakes defensively out of a couple games.

You have to raise him to the challenge of actually competing even in the NBA finals. Like, Halliburton has been fighting through these playoffs. He has stood up in these matchups that he has to stand up in to a level that now the Pacer's defense can maintain its overall integrity. And it's like, if you're putting up those numbers

and you're not like a liability defensively, you're in pretty special territory as far as NBA stardom is concerned. I think to me, the game four part that was craziest was the amount of time Carlisle was willing to let him rest, which felt like we dominate when this guy's on the court. Like if this thing is a three-point game by the time Halliburton gets in the game, we're going to smoke these guys.

And like, we're talking about six minutes left and a half, like six minutes, eight minutes left in the fourth where I'm just like, man, this guy's only playing. He's playing minutes in the 30s, okay? And it's because while he's out there, he is putting in so much work. He is so dominant. And the game takes the tenor of his basic will. Like, he's dictating the terms of how the game is played

in terms of his pace, in terms of the type of shots the paces are going to take. Like, the Knicks don't tell them like, all right, yo, we know you want to do X, Y, and Z. We're going to make you do something different. No, we're going to do what we want to do on every single possession. There's nothing you could do about it. And, you know, Rob mentioned the getting to the paint and actually finishing,

but also shooting some mid-rangers because he is, you know, really an analytical-friendly type of offensive game. He's like, no, I'm going to go ahead and get in the mid-range too, or at least he did in game four. And so I don't think you can say enough about what this guy did. He just literally looked like the best player on the floor. And I don't think coming into this playoffs, anybody would be saying Halliburton was better than Jalen Brunson or that he'd be a more dominant fourth quarter player than Jalen Brunson.

And that's been the case up and now in his damn series. And, you know, I think he deserves his props. Now, look, I think there's been times. Here he is. However, I'm just saying the Knicks defense, bro. I'm sorry. Their level of execution and focus has not met the moment. No.

Collectively. But this is like, someone just, someone just, put you in a bind. They do. I mean, the six is, excuse me,

the Pacers put you in a bind. But like, brough, you got to be better. I don't disagree, but what I'm seeing is like somebody just pushed over a vase off a table and you're blaming the craftsmanship of the vase. It's like the Pacers broke them.

They move so much. They force them into rotations. They make life difficult in a way that like, the Boston Celtics did not, right? Like the other good teams stylistically just have not been able to press the Knicks in quite that same way. And so I give the Pacers a lot of credit.

Now, are the Knicks breaking down? Yeah, they're breaking down a lot because the Pacers are really hard to guard. There's mental toughness. Honestly, a huge part of it, genuinely. Well, if I have to bind all of this together, it does feel like there's something going on with the system there.

And you have to give Rick Carlisle a lot of credit. Carlisle's great. Because we talk a lot about coaches being overly dogmatic or a little set in their ways in terms of not wanting to change things. Carlisle has done that, but all of it is to foster all of these things that the team is basically like their belief system. It is in order to keep the pace up in order to cycle through more guys. And so like you have to have steel testes basically to be like, well, Thomas Bryant, who we

shouldn't be playing to begin with isn't up to snuff. We're going to go with Tony Bradley just because we need bodies. in order to feed this ideology that has been so successful for us. And so Carlisle's one pillar and the second pillar is obviously Halliburton. It's just like everything is unlocking. I don't know if like the shooting success of some of the guys he's playing around has unlocked him or his ability to just get guys open, whether it's jump passing or with some of the most wiggly maneuvers I've ever seen from a basketball player.

Maybe it's just a feed loop feedback loop of both. But like, I mean, the obvious comp is Dantonia Nash. And the more they have success, the more it reminds me of those. The thing, too, that's kind of thunder like is the confidence that the non-Hally guys have, you know, in their ownership of the offense. Like, Lou Dort, sometimes he takes shots. I'm like, this Negro is crazy. Like, why is his light so green? Like, that's crazy to me.

But guess what? Like, you have to make those sacrifices that's going to make. make the team actually better. It's going to make you more dangerous to guard. It's going to put the defense in more panic, even though sometimes defenses are going to be like, oh, we want to leave Lou Dord. He's been empowered and he has the confidence.

A lot of shooting is confidence. And knowing that nobody's going to suck their teeth, nobody's going to whip their neck at you, like, yeah, what the hell are you doing if you missed that shot that you took? I think that matters in how the Pacers actually play. And guys like Nie Smith and Nemhardt and McCorm, and McConnell and all of these other guys to O.B. Topping, like, these guys have a green light

when they get a look or get, like, not just to shoot, take it to the rack. Yeah. Take a guy one-on-one. Like, whatever, do what the hell you want. It's amazing to watch. They have so many guys who can put the ball on the floor and make something happen to the point that,

when you have that level of buy-in from everybody, and you have, you know, as you guys have been alluding to, like the flexibility in coaching with Rick Carlisle, who I think makes a lot of adjustments in terms of how the team is now, navigating, but never compromises. Like, it's never we're sacrificing the integrity of the system or the culture or the way we play.

It's just like, we're going to move from this action into Andrew Nemhard, your heavy pick and roll now. Like, you're going to handle the ball. You're going to work the angles. You're going to create. Pascal Seaccom, we're going to post you up on the left block over and over against Josh Hart after we trigger the specific switch. Miles Turner, you're ducking in in transition.

We're going to feed you the ball every single time because we don't think these smalls can guard you. You know, Aaron Eastman, we're going to run you as a pick and pop big. because of the, they're going to put Jalen Brunson on you, we're going to make them sweat that way. It's like they just have all these different mechanisms they can toggle between. And all of that is because Tyre's Halliburton with the strengths of his game and his willingness to play that way allows that to be the culture of the Pacers.

And I think that's no small thing. It's, I don't say to take anything away from more ball dominant stars or guys who control the offense in a totally different way. We've seen that can be really, really effective. But if you play this other way, you tap into something in an Aaron Neesmith or an Andrew Nempard or a T. Jay McConnell that those other teams aren't going to have access to. How repeatable do you guys think the success for the ancillary guys, the knee smiths, the

Nemhearts, to a certain extent, the Turner's, is repeatable long term? Like, do we think that Halliburton has unlocked something in order to draw this out of guys in the way that we've seen best pass first point cards typically do? Do we think that they're just shooting over their heads at this point and it all just kind of feeds together? Or is this like, this is who these guys are going to be? because they've made progress, unbeknownst to maybe the general public, or because Halliburton can dredge this out of them.

I'd say they've done it for two straight years. I mean, I think what he's talking about is like the heat thing, where like, you know, Caleb Martin and Max Truce and Gaye Vincent leave and don't look half as dope as they did when they were in Miami. Yeah. You know, but like I personally, and maybe I'll be wrong about this, I feel like Neesmith is a clutch shooter. Like, Nemhard, where teams can't get the ball in against the guy to the guy that he's guarding down the stretch when, like, the paces are doing the whole, like, pressuring your inbound.

Like, the dude that Nemhard is guarded. Like, if you throw it that way, I'm convinced it's going to be a turnover. Like, it seems like all the stuff that they do is real. Even the shot making, it would seem like. And, you know, I guess sometimes it just takes us forever to just accept that some of these guys can be, like, they've shown themselves to be, but I'm pretty convinced. I'm done. I'm tired of like doubting these freaking pacer dudes.

We love to hear it. I mean, usually. I'm tired of being wrong about these fucking guys. Usually it takes a run like this for role players, right? If you're a star, you get certain benefits of the doubt. You get the production in the regular season. Like enough people see what you do to acknowledge it and understand it. If you're a role player, you kind of need a max truce run or else you're just some guy in the league to a lot of people.

And I think Aaron E. Smith has certainly had that moment. Andrew Nemhart certainly had that moment. I think as far as the repeatability goes, like those guys are this. They are this so long as you care to tap into it. So long as you care to give them space and error to create and move and be a dynamic part of the offense, I think they're going to able to produce in this way.

To me, the big growth for the Pacers this year, if you want to look year over year, relative to kind of what they were doing in the playoffs last season and the regular season last year, the way they've been using their bigs, the way they've been tapping into Miles Turner, the way they've been tapping into Obie Topin and Pascal Seyakum,

who's his own beast entirely as a creator. He's bad as sick series, dude. He's been awesome. And it's like the fact, like, it's one thing for Seacom to hit the tough shots. Like he's a good mid-range shooter. He's a good long-range shooter. He can work off the dribble. He's going to do all that stuff.

He's Pascal Seacom. The way they augment it with easy stuff, like that's Pacer's basketball. And that's something that I think they've grown, like, they've created the DNA of that, of like, how do we tap into our bigs into the easiest possible offense for them to beat mismatches? And they do it as consistently as any team in the league. Miles Turner is going to be the Hakeem Olajuwon for this team like 20 years from now. He'll be like,

he played 20 years for the Pacers. We tried to trade him 19 of those. But here he is, courtside for Albertan's son just taking over the new Pacers. I mean, the statue watch is officially on for Miles Turner. You know, we started the legacy talk too early with Terrence Shannon.

I think we should have waited for Miles Turner. I think that's the one thing that might actually deter them is that at this point, if Turner is going to be a free agent, There's a lot of teams looking at this being like, God damn, can I get in the Miles Turner business? As they should. Yeah. So, all right, we'll see.

Game, what, five back in New York, tomorrow, Thursday. I don't know if we'll be back on Saturday. I think it depends a lot on what happens in that series. If they don't go into a six game, the finals is scheduled to start on June 5th, right? There's something insane like that. Got a lot of time.

But for us, we'll probably. be Saturday or Monday. I'm sure you can figure that out based on who wins the game on Thursday. Or just email Rob. Rob will tell you. Your reach out of gmail.com. I'll hit you up.

Gardening tips, scheduling updates, takes on what Indiana themed costumes we should be looking at when we're open to all of it. I love those gardening tips, man. Those have been helping in. I will say my two corns are looking good.

I've been doubted. I've been doubt coming in. Much like Tyree's Alperin. Nobody believed in my corn. Properly rated corn. Have they even, have they even reaped corn yet? Have you even harvested?

They've been in the ground for like two weeks, but they're sprout. But he's confident. Yeah. I'll send you guys photos. You're like the December of January cabs right now. You're looking way ahead of yourself, buddy. The nobody believed in us gardeners.

That's me. All right, let's wrap it there. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll be back sometime in the next couple days. We'll talk to you about it. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in present in D.C.

Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 1-88-88-889-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help. dot org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.m.m.org or 800-327-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 18778 Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York.