The Ringer NBA Show - Thunder Surge and Take a 2-0 Lead in the Western Conference Finals. Knicks Face Pressure After Humbling Game 1 Loss. | Real Ones

Episode Date: May 23, 2025

Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck are back with another edition of Real Ones to discuss both conference finals series. The Oklahoma City Thunder, led by league MVP Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, are currently up 2-0 on the Minnesota Timberwolves. How have they been able to bottle up Minnesota's offense while hitting another gear late in games. With this new CBA, how has OKC shown the blueprint for building a successful young team on the cusp of winning a championship? The Knicks fell to the Pacers in devastating fashion after losing a hefty lead late in the game, with Tyrese Haliburton hitting a game-tying shot at the end of regulation. How do the Knicks bounce back to even up the series at home ? What has Tyrese Haliburton shown the world this postseason? (3:31): Wolves - Thunder Series (34:06): Fan Duel Ad Break (35:36): Knicks - Pacers Series (1:00:58): Mailbag The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] Hosts: Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard BeckProducer/Audio: Clifford AugustinVideo Producer: Victoria Valencia Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to The Ringer NBA show presented by Fandul. America's number one sports book has made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game, even after tip off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the Fandul Sportsbook app and build your bet slip. Then sit back, relax, and track the outcome of your parlay right in the app. And if you don't already have it, download the Fandual app today to make every moment more. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. please visit rg dash help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen

to the end of the episode for additional details must be 21 plus and present in select states gambling problem call 1 800 gambler or visit rgdash help dot com what's popping ruins looking bradak here raja about there as promised howard motherfucking beck is in the cut got a little tan looking great Raja, dude, what, what, um, what's up with the Bluetooth headphones, buddy? Are you going to get a hell of them? What the fuck? Listen, man, I have them. They're right here.

They sometimes sync to this laptop that I did buy specifically and especially for the show. And sometimes they don't. And then today, like I told you, wife's out of town, so I had to run up to Dia school real quick. I like Ty stay home. We had a half day and Zen. And Ty, I get home and then he's having a problem with the shooting machine. So he's outside. I got to run on and tighten that up real quick.

It's just a lot of shit, bro. It's just stuff. You know, before the, that had nothing to do with the Bluetooth headphones question, but like that was definitely the- So what it did was it fried me out. So when I get, like, this is typically what happens in my life, right? Like, when you see me and you get the excitable, like, on-edge version, it's nothing you did.

It's everything that led up to that that's got me on tilt. And now I'm like, fuck these Bluetooth headphones. I understand. Yeah. I understand. It's funny because you said that you dealt with a lot of bullshit this morning. And I just got to go for base value and now you just vented for everyone on the pod. We appreciate that.

Well, let me take it a step further to anyone that's listening, right? Allow me to do this. I've been with my wife a long time, right? Like since college. So there are times when someone's like, yo, I'm going out of town. We're like, yo, sometimes that's cool, bro. Go get a refresher. Take, like, my little girl's got a soccer thing up at Disney.

And I'm like, you know what? I'm going to kick it here with the boys, bro. We don't have a little weekend until all of her duties fall upon me. Right? And then now I'm sitting here, what should have been like a chill-out, what I'm normally doing when she handles it, turns into now I'm in charge. And that shit sometimes is- He thought she was going to be chilling at 6 o'clock with a cold brew,

but she was up at 10-30 for no reason. Just doing it. And check this out. We didn't just pot it for like as long as we have. And I don't even got a mic in front of me. That's how fried I am. Ooh. Look.

Here's the fucking mic. I didn't mean talking into it. Howard, please help us out. Help us get out of this. What's going on? What's the fuck is going on? We're cooked.

It's over. It's over. The pod's been canceled. Sorry. Speaking of getting bothered to be getting canceled. The Minnesota Timberwolves, ladies and gentlemen. Wow. You know, so like all season, we've been like testing O'KC's gangston being like, you know, man,

I'm including me in this group. I'm including me in this group. Man, they got a good record. We do the same thing with the Cavaliers. Man, they got a good record. Ooh, man. We'll see what they do in the offs. We'll see what they do in the offs.

Let's see if they get tested. What they're going to do? Are they going to fold? Maybe they're young. Who knows? young teams of old have folded just like the, you know, the thunder of yesteryear, right? And so we get

to that, getting to that bag. And then they just fucking dominate Minnesota Timberwolves through two games. And it looks like a series that was going to be six games. Could very well be a sweep or a gentleman sweep at best. The defense has been amazing. Russell from Timberwolves

has been clobbered. We'll get to his stats in a second. Nasreid is like falling off a cliff for the last two months. I don't know what the hell is going on there. Howard, should we just like get ready for, I don't know where they have the parade in O KC or where they will. I haven't been there in a while, but should we just get ready to that for that? Should we just get started and get ready for the OKC parade at this point? Would that be the like world's shortest parade?

Like, all right, we're starting. Whoops, we've reached the edge of town. They've got to do laps. Turn around and go back. Wait, that was two minutes. How do we get down? No, no, no, no. We got to, we do the whole state in 35, 35 minutes. That's crazy. You just, you wake up and you're just in the field. Why are we in Norman right now?

Oh, shit. We're doing nothing to, to dissuade anybody from believing that we're just coastal elites, certainly me. Sorry, Oklahoma. Not sorry, really. I think this is a good time for me to bring back my coaches always lie, rant, just briefly. I don't know if Chris Finch said it last night, but if anybody with the Timberwolves said, hey, it's a long series. Let me just remind everybody that in a best of seven series in the NBA, if a team is up 2-0, they win the series 92% of the time, including 6-0 so far this year. So, yeah, most likely the wolves are cooked. I'm never going to write off a team this quickly.

Things can change. Playoff series have a way of surprising us, especially when the venue changes and, you know, guys are more comfortable at home. But I think the real problem is that we haven't seen a whole lot in the first two games to indicate that the Timberwolves know how to be competitive in this series. And that's Julius Randall,

just completely fading, turning back into frustrated version of, that the Knicks fans were always frustrated. frustrated with in New York in the postseason. It's a little bit of Anthony Edwards. It's a little bit of role players just fading. It's Mike Conley suddenly aging 10 years at times. It's they can't make a three-pointer and this is a team that was one of the best three-point shooting teams in the league this year. It's a lot of things. But yeah, I mean, I thought this was going to be a competitive series. I thought it could go the distance and I am looking rather foolish at the moment for having that much faith in the Minnesota, it's ever wolves. You know how bad of a series is.

is, Raja, I had a, me and my editor had like a plan of what we were going to do for game. I think it was game three in like in terms of writing. By the end of the game two, we had to scrap the shit. Like, we just had to like, no, this isn't going to work. Like, this is just too much of a blowout. Let me give you some quotes. I'm not some quotes. Let me give you some stats really quickly, Raja from Julius Randall.

After he had 20 points in the first half of game one, he has scored a combined 14 over the next few quarters of that. the series. What have you seen with how OKC has just cobbled him, just stolen everything from him? What have you seen from their defense? And why has it been so effective against a guy like Julius Randall? Well, I mean, look, they're a good defensive team. It's been effective against the whole team. Let's be frank. Like, that's, that's not, I mean, Julius Randall is who Julius Randall is. He had a very nice first half to the series. You know, he struggled a bit in the second half

and he struggled the entire game last night. He has things that he likes to do that are predictable in a way that it's not really fair because there have been some very predictable. Like Mano Genoble was going left. Like you knew that. But he had so many little,

he had so many little variances to going left and little ways to get you leaning right that would bring him back left. And you knew he was going left and he could still cook you like that. that. So it's not really fair to Julius Randall, but he has a predictable skill set. And when you're as good defensively as OKC is and you're as disruptive and you've got hands in on every ball, like the amount of deflection they have deflections that they create is unreal.

When they have the amount of length that they have around the rim, so you know, you're running him off of that three. He's getting to the basket. Usually he's a bully around there because of his size. Well, now, you know, there's Chet Looming with all of that length. There's Hartenstein like these there's real length out there that's deterring him at the rim and so they've just got him a little you know frustrated and out of whack um but i do want to go back like yeah i i thought i okay c was my favorite to win this series right like okay c was my favorite to win the championship um i thought that minnesota two coming into this series would be would be a formidable test for them they have been largely through six quarters five and a half quarter so

I mean, these games have been right there for a while, and then OKC just opens it up on them, right? So, like, there's an avenue to it. But OKC is just really good. And when they ratchet it up just a little bit defensively, I mean, they put it on you real quick, dude. Yeah. And it's just, that's why I think this series is going to go so fast because even I was talking to, I was talking to somebody within the group chats last night. And it feels like even with this offense, say Aunt gets his groove and he has a 50-pointer, this series, I still think like that's a game.

OKC wins by like five, right? Like it seems like they can, they have, they're such a deep team. They are, they have just like, aunt when he's coming off of a screen, he has Lou Dord on him. And then you switch on to, you switch him on to like JDA, who is go from first team all defense to second team all defense. right and then you have Shea blocking up the paint and then Artenstein coming off the bench it is a ridiculous defense I just don't see good we talked about this

Roger and you alluded to it this is the predictability of Minnesota's offense like how do you you can't change that on the fly right like that's that's what I think the biggest conundrum that they have is that they can't change their ways on the fly especially like that's why I think okay C's so good coming out of halves because they can stifle Minnesota and they don't really have a reprie.

Yeah, they also have more people that can generally create for themselves. So like in game one when Shea was struggling, you got him off the ball a little bit. Jay Will is able to create. He's able to take people off the bounce and collapse defense. And you can withstand Shea kind of going to sleep offensively for a while because they have more playmakers out there, more people that can genuinely like create a play for someone else. Yeah, look, I've said this last

playoff series, it's holding true again this playoff series so far. It held true against the Lakers a bit. Even though Ant has grown, he's matured, he's gotten better. There's still things that you throw at him that look confusing to him and he doesn't have an answer for like right away.

And that's okay. He's young. He's learning. When you have the type of pieces that OKC has defensively that you just talked about like Lou Dord and Jay Will and these guys aren't giving you free looks coming off of screens. This sounds corny, but these dudes are fighting. They're fighting over screens. Like they're,

they are physical in a way that doesn't give you much space when you come off of these, right? And aunt typically, so I said on Rasillo's pod that I'd like him to get to the midrange a little bit more. And I know analytically speaking, people are going to kill me and shit like that when you ain't play no fucking basketball. Like, when you are living predictably on a three or the rim, as a defender, I have landmarks. I know where you want to get to the rim.

That's a landmark for me. I put my backup against that. You can't go any further to the baseline. For threes, I put my toes on the line and it's a landmark predictably. But when you're operating in that midpost space where you'll pull up at any time or you're getting to Shea where like he might get all the way to the rim or he might just stop and race. up in the air. It's hard to guard that. Ant looks stymied by the way they're asking him to play a little bit, which is three or to the rim. And last night, I thought he did a decent job of saying, man, fuck that. I'm just going to get aggressive real quick and get to a spot. Now, it didn't, it didn't

wind up being consistent enough scoring, but like that's the way you're going to have to play against them, bro. This isn't going to be traditional. Hey, they're going to give me a three. They're not, they're fighting over those screens, bro. Like, they're not just going to keep gifting you toeing the line threes and it's going to be difficult to consistently score at the rim with their level of defensive prowess. I like that they got him to the midpost a little bit in an area off the block where it was going to be hard to double. I liked that he took the ball and went there occasionally, but like you're not going to be able to live with just shooting threes or getting to the rim against his defense. Well, that's what I think about Roger. And I'm going to get to Howard in the second.

I do have a question for you about OKC and just team building aspect. I want to stay on this point with the Roger real quick. I remember when I was reporting out of Ant's story last summer going into the Olympics. And one of the things that some of the coaches on the Timberwell staff was saying was they're showing him film of Kobe specifically for this moment, right? And I think just Kobe in the post and Kobe and how he just kind of seeks out matchups, right? and I'm thinking about the series against you guys in 06 where it feels like, um,

where it felt like for the first four games, Kobe was kind of thinking the game through. He wasn't, which you guys did a good job of it by game five was making him become a score, but for the first like four games of that series, he was a guy that was thinking through in the post passing to other guys becoming a, um,

ecosystem within the ecosystem of an offense. And I don't know if aunt is there yet. I think he's developing those tools. I think Kobe was like, maybe 28 by that time, but Ant is trying to figure that out in real time, but he's just not there yet, right? Like, he can get to the post, but I don't know if he could consistently become an ecosystem yet from the post. And I think that we're seeing him kind of mature into that, but he's not quite there yet. Yeah, well, you're talking, yeah, I mean, I would agree to some,

to at some extent, like, you're talking about overall development and, and that does not come overnight, right? I did like what Ant did last night. The other, the other answer to what they're doing defensively with all eyes on you is what he did early, which was just accept it, attack, create the rotation for the defense, and then spray the ball. And he did that really well. He just wasn't getting the type of support that you would need from the others by way of shot making. Because that's the answer, right? If you're going to commit these resources to stopping me and I'm going to draw it far enough away from my other four players that when I kick the ball, they get to truly play four on three for about two seconds.

If we are punishing you that way by making shots, then guess what you have to stop doing? You got to stop committing those resources to me, or you got to live with them just knocking shots down over and over. But they've got to do their job. They got to make the shots. They weren't. And so Ant now has to take it on himself to score the ball a little bit

and point produce. And in that space, he does have to continue to develop in different areas of the game. You see Shea sometimes come down. I call Tyin from the other room. He was watching it, but I wanted to show him there was a clip.

Like, he comes down, he pushes it all the way to the baseline on one side, right? Like, he pushes it all the way to the baseline and then he basically drops it behind his back and puts you right on his hip, right? Everybody is loaded on the other side of the floor. There's a guy at the top of the key. But now he's basically on an ISO right there

with a guy on his hip, and he's just going to bounce, bounce, bounce to a spin fade. Now, if you double that, he's going to kick it out. But they're not doubling because you've gotten into that quick. You've put him on his heels. And that's a perfect spot to operate when you're as gifted a score as one of those guys is. But you see Shea do that throughout the course of a game.

Jay Will does that from time to time. You don't see Ant do that enough. Yeah, that's interesting. Let's get back to the. I want to get to the OKC part of it, Howard. Just from a team building aspect where we're going, we're in this new CBA. and I think it took maybe a couple of years for franchises just to see how much these aprons are affecting the league.

What does OKC's rise teach us about team building in the modern era where you have to draft, you have to hit on free agents, but you have to hit within a window right now. And it seems like they somehow have a longer window than most in this modern NBA. But then you juxtapose that with Minnesota. who is already, even though they're a young team, starting to get expensive and starting to see the end of like the team now is that we know it in the next couple of years because they

might have to pivot at some point, right, just with how the salaries go. How can LKC's mantra educate the rest of the league, including the Timberwolves, who want to be contenders for the next few years to come? I don't know if the Thunder's model. if we want to call it that is something that you can replicate. I think if you looked at the four teams that are in the conference finals, they all got here a little bit differently. The one thing that we know, I think we know for sure now,

is that you're not winning a championship in this era with this CBA, with the old super team model of we're just going to go out and get a bunch of expensive dudes who are all making the max, two or three of them, four if we can somehow pull it off. Like that's just not realistic anymore. and it wasn't realistic for most of the league anyway, which is why the league created the system, right? Only a handful of teams could pursue that model

because you need to be in a glamour market or a big market. Sam Presti, you know, it's interesting. The Thunder were the one team that voted against lottery reform when they finally changed the odds. And the reason for that was the Thunder as the smallest of small markets, basically their view was you're taking away one of the biggest tools. A small market team has to get.

Yeah, we can't get elite talent free agency. They're not coming to Oklahoma. They're not coming to Memphis. They're not coming to Indianapolis. They're not coming to Charlotte. They're not coming to all kinds of places in the NBA. So if you're Oklahoma and if you're any of those other teams too and you're looking at, well, I can get a superstar through free agency.

Nope, not likely. Trade. They might refuse to. sign an extension here. They might refuse to show. They might just whatever. They might tell the team that's trading them, don't trade me there. And they might honor. So what are we left with? How else are we getting elite talent that can anchor a championship contender? So that's why the Thunder voted against lottery reform. They wanted that tool still in the toolbox. And they lost that vote, obviously, 29 to 1. But what the thunder have been doing since then is exactly what we've

all seen, right? Sam Presti making all these moves to keep acquiring a shit ton of draft picks, the most probably in the history of the league in any given time, and made some really smart moves along the way. Like, lest we forget, their newly crowned MVP was acquired up, of course, in the Paul George trade. Shea was the overall, what, like 12th or 13th pick in the draft that he was in, there was, you know, like that's, like, even if you were the thunder having, if you had picked him where he was picked, this was not a tanking model, right? He wasn't a top one, two, three pick. He was late lottery. But they saw something in him. A lot of people with the clippers also knew that that there was something special. I mean, Doc Rivers said that like, he asked Kauai,

like, are you sure you want to trade for Paul George? Are you sure? The shake kid is kind of good. Yeah, and the clippers were really loath to give him up. But, but that's, that was what the deal cost. And then, of course, one of the picks that they got in that deal became Jalen Williams. So like two of your three best players right now by resume were in that deal. But neither of them were top five picks. And then Chet was the one high pick, right? And, you know, books, you know, still out. Jury still out on what Chet's going to become.

He's really good. He's a valuable player for them. Their free agent pickups were Isaiah Hartinstein and Alex Caruso. All right, cool, a starting center and a sixth man. I mean, obviously both those guys could be starters. for a lot of teams, but they were complementary pieces that you put on afterward. So can somebody go out and try to do this same thing? Like, sure, if you've already got a Paul George who you can trade for a shit ton of picks,

including one of whom's going to become a future MVP, like, that's a little glib, but like that's really what happened. And I do think that to the extent that the Thunder have created something sustainable, right, young talent, some of them not on their max deals yet, not off of their rookie deals yet and depth and more picks so that we've got all these different ways we can now evolve from here right oh they get too expensive all right we'll let a couple of expensive guys go we have that we still got some of the young guys or new draft picks if we hit on all them to backfill as cheaper replacement players right like there's a possibility here of continuing

to do that but you doing that requires still like constantly hitting on picks and one of the greatest GMs of all time. Presti's freaking amazing. And like these people who like be like, oh, he's overrated. What's he won? Folks. Like this is the NBA, man. Like there's a lot of really smart coaches and GMs who have not won championships

because it takes luck. It takes some skill. It takes all kinds of stuff. And the fact that Presti built a team that made the finals with Durant, Westbrook, Hardin, Ibaka. It came apart for a bunch of different. reasons, not least of which was it was ownership who didn't want to max out Hardin. That's why they trade.

Like, Presti didn't wake up one morning and decide, I'm just going to trade James Hardin. And you could, you can quibble with the what he got back in the trade, but nobody saw him becoming an MVP either at that time. Like, even the Rockets will tell you, they didn't, they didn't foresee that. So anyway, Presti built a contender. It comes apart. And in a fairly short amount of time in NBA years has rebuilt another contender, one that just won 68 games, looks like it's on the verge of making the finals.

and absolutely will be heavily heavily favored no matter who they face. So you can't diminish what Presti's done. Dude has been masterful. And on top of all that, at a time when we keep prematurely declaring teams of potential dynasty, Nuggets, potential dynasty, Celtics. Like, no, like it comes apart really quickly. The thunder have the ability actually to withstand and continue building on this. I'm not going to do prematurely declare them a dynasty either.

We got to all just stop doing that. I'm just saying they actually have a model where the salary cap itself, the CVA itself, will not necessarily tear them down because they've got the ability to pivot in so many different ways because of all the picks coming. Yeah, I can't wait to see what they become. Roger, let's talk back about this series. Where how do you see game three going of this series, right? Where very clearly, OKC has had full control of this.

And I have no doubt that they are going to win in five or six games. games, but that game three is very important, right? It's the, it's the first swing game of the series. It is the game by and large where that home team is probably going to play the hardest in this type of situation. What kind of effort is going to be needed from OKC to just take full stranglehold of the series in that type of environment? Because it's going to be cracking in Minnesota. Yeah, I mean, Minnesota, what you're going to have to do is I would imagine is weather the storm that is going to be Minnesota at home for the first six minutes of the game, right? And then if, you know, if you withstand that, then you settle in

and you hoop if you're OKC. OKC is so disruptive. I just want to, I just want to be clear. Like, you can watch even in playoff series teams defensively that are pretty good. They're not as physical, as present, as disruptive, as deflectiony, not a word, but like, as, as Oklahoma City, they're all over you. They are swarming. They are taking a swipe at any ball that is presented to them. And you just don't see that all the time in the NBA. Like a lot of stuff is given in the NBA until it's time to really sit down and guard

before you get into your primary move or the shot goes up. Like these dudes are contesting everything. And that's always going to give them an opportunity. So like what they need to do is is continue to turn the ball over. It's a huge part of who they are. Conversely, like Minnesota has to take care of the ball. I think they gave up 22 points off of turnovers last night. And OKC only gave up 10 points off of turnovers.

Like not a like I mean, that's 12 points, but it was a what, 13, 14 point game? You know, you got so they're going to continue to turn the ball over. They need to continue to like build that. wall. That wall that I'm telling you is kind of stymieing Julius Randall at times and definitely has had an effect on an ant. They need to keep building that and then just be long, active, and punitive around the rim. And again, all of this is going to be flip side. Minnesota, you need to put your head down, dude. Like, you need to put your head down. You either are going to have to make an incredible amount of threes and shoot a good percentage at that or we got to find a way to

produce in the paint. Yep. Yep. Got to break bread or fake dead. I mean, I think that one of the things I keep thinking about this series, Raja, is I keep thinking about a guy that's not even in the playoffs or in the series at all, a guy by the name of Nicola Yokic. Like, with what the OKC is doing now, like how much more respect do you have for Nicola Yokens

for taking this defense singularly? He had some help a little bit, but certainly taking this team to seven games. Yeah, look. Nicola Yokic is amazing. And I don't, I'm not, what I'm about, let me preface what I'm about to say by saying, this isn't meant to take any credit away from Nicola Yokic,

the player. He's incredible, amazing. But I would tell you, if anyone else had that type of post presence, right? That is the answer to OKC's defense. So much of what they do is perimeter based pressure, deflections, disruptive, of your offense. If you can play behind that,

which is what Denver could do, like theoretically, right? Like say if you're looking at a defense, you've got the ball at the top of the key, right? There's this wall. I've got a bunch of ball pressure. I look to my right. There's someone in a gap half denial.

There's someone to my left gap, half denial. I can't make a clean pass. I don't think I can drive it. We want to play behind that. Yeah. In the post a bit. But nobody has that guy. And so while it's not taking it,

Yokitch was brilliant. and he could do it better than anybody else could do it. But having someone that you could throw it into and play from the inside out is a better recipe for playing against them than trying to play them from the outside in. That's why Denver always has a shot if they can somehow find a way to retool just because of that guy right there and they can always be a factor within the Western Conference because what you said, I mean, there's, you know, Denver, I think about like, you know, their post presence, but also,

you think about the other post presence and like Anthony Davis, but he's not on a team that's going to be good enough to beat O KC, right? Like, but who else is there that you can think of in the Western Conference, right? That's why I think Denver always has a shot and, like, we'll see what they do. But you got to think if you're Denver, oh, we're,

we just got to regroup and we'll be fine. Like we got it. We'll be right in the things that's got to settle down even after all the smoke is there because of those reasons. Stay healthy. There was something Howard that, that I saw recently. like a comparison throughout this series comparing the this year's Oklahoma City Thunder to the 1415

warriors and I thought it was interesting I don't necessarily agree with it but I thought it was an interesting comp and I I want to get your take on this but the reason why I think it's wrong is because I think that the warriors had a bit more of a balance between young and old um with Iguodala and with uh Sean Levenson and guys like that guys that have played at high levels, not to say that OKC doesn't, they had Caruso and Hartinstein, but I think Iguadala was a better player

in terms of free agency picks up, pickups, and he was really huge for them. He had Bogot and different vets like that. But there is the comparison of a team that is seemingly coming out of nowhere to winning a title, even though I disagree with that, but that is the logic behind this comparison.

What do you think when you think about those two different groups and two different teams and their similar or different trajectories. The thing with the Warriors was, like they were already a 50 win team, right? But they looked like a 50 win team with a ceiling on them, right? I don't think anybody, we didn't see them coming. The leap they made from 50 win team to champion to dynasty,

we did not see coming. The thunder, it's different. Like, you could start to see the outline of it a couple of years ago. And then they, I mean, they led the West and wins even a year. go, right? Like they, so like, like, this has been more of a like, chartable rise where they went from, you know, rebuilding team to competitive, to really intriguing to great, but not ready to make a playoff run. So now making the playoff run. Like there's, there's is like more of the traditional path to, to, to championship, assuming that they win it. Um, the Warriors like made a leap

that nobody saw like nobody. Remember there was like ESPN had it's like, grid of everybody making their preseason predictions and only exactly one person picked the Warriors. So that was that was Ethan Strauss famously back in the day. And that was it. And you know, there's a reason for that. You know, and especially at that time, right? Like we weren't, you know, everybody was still on the, oh, can you win a championship shooting a threes? You know, is a Steph Clay, you know, a combination. Is that the way you win a title? You know, Draymond doesn't score like who, where, you know, how they going to get, you know, easy buckets. It was all that stuff.

We weren't, we weren't ready to, to recognize what the Warriors were at that time. The Thunder is just obvious. I mean, they were the preseason. The Thunder feels like a continuation of what the old Thunder should have been, right? Like, it just seems like they just broke that ceiling. It's basically the by and large the same model. But, yeah, but like the Thunder were the preseason favorites to win the West. And I think maybe, I don't know if they were preseason favorites to win the championship.

But like the Warriors were not. preseason favorites at the very beginning of their run. They were later, obviously. So I think they're really, really different. I don't know who made that comparison, but I don't, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have gone there. I mean, I think this is, and besides that, too, like the Warriors, like, okay, they drafted their core three guys, but as you mentioned, Livingston and Nygadala, Bogot, Barbosa, all the

other guys who were on those, the early team, like, those were guys that they picked up along the way. The Thunder are so heavily homegrown. and I would even sort of include Shea in that because they picked him up at a time when he was still really young in his trajectory. He became a star on their watch. He was not a star they acquired.

And I think one of the other things that's really interesting is just like the kinds of players they've drafted, right? They've got so many guys who can get after it defensively. And some of them can score, some can't. I think most of them are at least competent shooters. So like they've got like, every team in the league would love to just go raid their bench for three and D guys for just, you know, defensive-minded wings, guys with lengths and athleticism.

A lot of guys on OKC are going to be on other teams in like five years. They will. A lot of guys. But by the way the system works, they absolutely will be. But again, that's the genius of having all the picks because they can, they can constantly replenish. But they just, they've done a really good job. And it's like, listen, saying that doesn't mean they're perfect, right?

People are immediately going to go back and be like, you know, start picking on a oh, they drafted Poku. You know, like, yeah, okay, every team, even the best GMs have their screw-ups in the draft. They have not been perfect. They've gotten a hell of a lot more right than wrong, and they're hitting a much higher percentage than most, which is why they're in this position.

Let's see what happens. It's going to be a fun series. It's still a thing is going to be a quick series. It's going to be fun nonetheless. I'll say a quick break. Fandle is letting you get in on all the NBA playoff action right now from the first tip because right now all customers get a No sweat, same game parlay every weekend when you bet the NBA playoffs.

That's right. Just use your token on three plus legs. Same game parlay and same game parley plus on any NBA playoff game. And you'll get bonus bets back if you don't win. Man, let's talk about the slate. We got Knicks pacers coming up. And I don't know who to pick. So I'm just going to close my eyes and pick the Knicks outright.

And I think I'm going to take the over on points for Jalen Brunson. and I'm going to take the overall points for Carl Towns. And I love betting on FanDuel with their great promotions every day. They're safe and secure app and their instant payments. There's no better place to bet on all the playoff action in America's number one sportsbook. Visit FanDuel.com backslash ringer NBA and get a no sweat same game parlay every weekend of the NBA playoffs. Fan dual official sports betting partner of the NBA must be 21 years and older and present in select states. or 18 and older in President D.C.

often required minimum three leg parlay required refund issued as non-wood drop of bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Max refund $5 and less otherwise specified. Restrictions apply included token expiration. See terms of sportsbook. Fanduil.com. Got a gambling problem called 1-800 gambler or visit RG dash help.com. All right. We are back.

I am still just, I'm at all right now. Before we get to any of like the games itself, let's do some bit of an investigative reporting. I want to go to Beck really quickly. So apparently, Rob is going to get to craft course on what happens with journalists during basketball games and the stuff that we have to endure. But can you educate people really quickly on what you were doing during the Pacers comeback, Mr. Beck, when you were at the garden? how you left or how you left our distinguished colleagues, Zach Lowe, you and Pena, left him alone in the garden and you just, fuck, right? Just to watch that comeback by himself? Can you educate the people on what you were doing?

I mean, I fully outed all of this on the recital pod yesterday. So I don't mind regaling our audience with the same. But listen, when you are covering a game as a reporter, and especially if you're on deadline. Now, I was not on deadline the other night. I was not writing, but Pina was. But most of the media, especially if you're on deadline, but when you are at the garden in particular, most of the media seating at this time of year,

as many media as there are, is up on what they call the Chase Bridge. The Chase Bridge is way, way, way, way, way up in the garden rafters. It's actually a really good vantage point to watch the court. But it is way up there is the ninth floor of the garden. The press room and the main concourse is, is the sixth floor. The event level where the locker rooms and the court are,

and the press conferences are, is five. So once again, all the stuff we got to do post game is on level five. The workroom is on six. And the press seating for most of us is on nine. The way you get there is either on one slow-ass fucking elevator from the 1960s that they never replaced despite spending a billion dollars renovating the building 15 years ago. They left all the slow-ass elevators in place, still chugging away.

There's like, there's like, you know in the old like movies where the dude like has to pull like the little cage thing first closed and then they pull the doors closed or whatever like and there's some elevator? It's basically like that. And then there's a lot of like mice running on hamster wheels to actually turn the shit that actually lifts the elevator. I thought you were going to say like the real mice that are running around the garden. The rats. No. Well, there's that too. Yeah.

Yeah. That's just New York. And you guys love this place? Not you guys. So there's that. Or there's the stairwells. I take the stairs personally. There's also some escalators, by the way.

I don't do the escalation. I usually just take one of the stairwells, right? I will walk down. But those stairwells, guys, after a Knicks game, especially if they've won, which they were at the time that I left my seat, they were up still like 15 points. Those stairwells are a fucking shit show, man. And especially if they've won because it's just a moving party.

And so the smart thing. to do for the season journalist is to go, oh, this game is out of hand. It's 15 points with five minutes to go. I think I'm going to pack up my stuff and start making my way down the stairwell before stuff gets crazy. So I did and Pina did and James Herbert did and Rachel Nichols did and Chris Mannix did. They're not our teammates though, but they're not our teammates. So respect to them. I'm just saying respect to all of them. Shout out to Rachel. Shout out to all the homies, but they're not our teammates. Many of us thought the wise move at that point was to make our way down to the press room so that we'd be closer to where the press conferences were going to be so you don't get stuck and then like miss out on being able to do your job or anything. And also just not got stuck in a crazy stairwell.

Yes, Zach stayed up there. He noted that Mike Vorkenov from the athletic was the only other. Mike had been to my left. So there was like five seats between them. They're like the two left in that that stretch. Yeah, got down to the press room. And then we're all watching it on TV and the press. room going like, oh, this is getting interesting. Oh, that's getting. Holy shit, what the fuck

just happened? You should have heard. This is the fun part because like, we're a pretty demure bunch, right? No cheering in the press box, no cheering on press row. For the most part, we are pretty contained because we're not, we have no stakes in this, but we will react when something spectacular happens. So in this press room that is otherwise quiet, just watching it on TV, got the broadcast on, listening to Reggie and Stan and Kevin Harlan. And that Halberton shot flies up there in the air, you know, hanging in the air for like however long it was, drops back through the explosion of the press room of like, oh, was like, we all just like lost it because it was like, holy shit, who saw us coming? Plus, in real time, we like Tyrese Halliburton thought it was a three,

thought the game was over. And plus we're all going like, oh my God, did he? he actually just do Reggie's choke. So like, we're, we're just like, what the hell? What did? So yeah, we're still in the building, lest anybody get this wrong. We did not leave. I and others were in the building. We just happen to be in the press room instead of in the bowl or up on the chase bridge.

Shit happens. What is, whatever. Roger, what does this comeback say about, say about the series? Like, talk about the boss of series about how like when the. Knicks were going up on these, we're going down and just making these comebacks that it may not be sustainable, right, with the Celtics. And, you know, when they were going back to Boston,

look out for Boston to, you know, get back in the series because they have been clearly the better team, right? The Knicks were the better team for the majority of game one. And they lost it. Does that give you confidence of the Knicks or does it, is this the, where are you at on this one compared to the last argument? I still don't know. I am right where I started with this series. I still, I still don't know. For every reason you just said, like New York was firmly in control of that game. They had played

at a pace that I don't think is prudent for them to play at against this team for any extended stretch of time, but they did it that night and they figured out a way to have the game in control and basically have it over. And they squandered it. And some of that was incredible shot. making by knee smith and some of it was miss free throws by the nicks some of it was you know turnovers and poor decisions like they they even escaped on a few bad passes that that should have had him in even more trouble earlier than they were and they just fumbled the bag and so I don't have a good feel for this series I could convince myself that the Knicks come out and and use all the avenues that they used in game one to be up and in control just like they were in game one and they'll do

that in closing game two. I could totally make an argument for the Pacers playing that style of ball and baiting New York to play it with them is going to not end well for the New York Knicks. And I don't know where I fall on that. I think now I would obviously like it's it's cliche, but since they flipped home court and now they're in the driver's seat, I think Indiana has control of it. Um, that's going to sound really superficial, but it is deeper. I think that that, I've said this before. People always asked me about running with the Phoenix Suns and why, why, why it was, you know, what was it like? And it looked so fun. And I'd say, listen, man, that shit was fun once you were in shape to do that. And they'd be like, oh, but everybody can run. I'm like, no, dude. No. The amount of time that

it took and the investment in practicing like that that we had to make to be able to do that consistently night in and night out you would have no idea how fast you have to practice and how you have to be conditioned to do that now the trick is and why this is why it's dangerous is when you go play people because everyone wants to run when you go to the park you see anybody like like walking it up and getting into a set no people are trying to get up and down that's what people want to do. So the weird thing about it is it's easy to bait people into thinking they can get up and down with you. Yeah. And they might be successful at it for a while. But over the course of time, it is what they do better than you. Indiana does that. They play fast better than you. So you can

play with fire and play fast with them all the time. And just because you were up and you thought you were in control, like this is a good recipe for us. It's not. It's not a good recipe. I mean, It felt like the Knicks were getting winded and tired by the end of that game. They looked like they were, because they play a completely different style, but they looked whooped by that time when all the three started going. And it, oh, my goodness. But that's the thing, Logan, first of all, like, where it reared its head was, for me, was, you know, there were some offensive possessions where they looked tired.

But defensively, when I just told you that OKC is attached on every switch, like they're fighting over every screen, they have their hands on you, they're disruptive. Well, juxtapose that to the way the Knicks looked when Niece Smith was coming off of those, like, screens and pin downs. It was clean. It was clean. It's clean. Like there. So, yeah, it does wear on you, but you're not conditioned to play like that.

The Pacers are conditioned to play like that. So they get you late in games. And we've talked about these two equalizers at the end of games, Jalen Brunson and Halley, right? You don't have that advantage anymore if you're the Knicks. Like, they have a, they have a bona fide clothes or two. They're more like, experience and more conditioned to play like that

late in games, they go deeper into their bench than you anyway. So they got more bodies that they can throw at those minutes. And now you're playing every other night. Yeah. Yeah. So now I'm like, oh shit.

I don't have a great feel. But I guess what I'm saying to you is if you made me pick, I'd probably pick the Pacers now. What is the evolution? Because I think about the pace and I think about the Phoenix Suns, obviously. But it seems like in a way that you guys weren't able to do when you guys were there,

they're able to, they're able to set the pace at their own in the postseason, but they're able to bend the series to their will because of it, right, at least deeper into the postseason. Is that the modern NBA right now? Or like, why are they able to just kind of overwhelm a team with that in that way, right? You know what I'm saying? Where they're just, they're just going, going, going, going. And I know you guys did that. I watched you guys in the early rounds in your reign.

But as it goes into the conference finals, I don't think we've seen a team like this, maybe overpower a team with speed probably since. It has Showtime Laker vibes. No, we did. We did it. Western Conference Finals game one. We beat Dallas in Dallas.

Doing just that. I tore my calf and we played a roster like the Knicks. Right? So part of your answer is like we were playing eight people. So now I blow out my calf. well Indiana is going 10 deep, 9 deep. Yeah. So they've got an extra body, body and a half to throw at the pace.

You know, and if you're going deep into playoff series, that becomes, that becomes important, right? Because the soft tissue injury is just like one more step away. I also think that what we would come up against was Dirk or Tim Duncan. And those teams, they're not going to get baited into getting up and down the the court with you. They're not. Why we struggled with the clippers that year was they had Elton Brand and Chris Kamen and they played through them. You're not going to get baited into going up and down with them. But when you don't have, when your big cat wants to be shooting threes and everything else is a wing player, there's no organic like slowdown of play because everybody

wants to get up and down. When you throw the ball into the post, if, I mean, look, throw the ball into to post every time down and guess what's going to happen to the game. It's going to slow down. They don't have those in that way. So, you know, again, if you played, if you played the nuggets and they were putting it into Yokic all the time, you'd get them in a much more desirable wheelhouse of score and pace because you have someone to put the ball into. And the Knicks, I think, are going to have to try to look at that.

Like, whether that is putting it into Kat over and over again, whether that's just telling guys, hey, man, if it's not a great look, like, let's be. really intentional about how quickly we get a shot up. If they're great looks, let's get them up. If they're not great looks, let's make these mofos work for a minute. Let's make them work the ball around a little bit. But, you know, to answer your question, we came up against people that could really slow it down on us. And they are playing more bodies, Indiana, that is, than we were.

Yeah, that's a good point. Howard, what is Tyresearch Halliburton showing the world during these postseason? besides the fact that he's not overrated. Not overrated. There were a few overrated chance the other night. So that was fun. I bet they shut that shit up by the end. Yeah, just a bit.

I mean, dude is fearless. He is a killer. He's not afraid of taking the big shots. He's not afraid of missing the big shots. And he's not afraid of taunting the whole city of New York, eight million people. Bro, he's such an asshole. At a game one, he could have taken a two-point or to tie the game.

He ended up digging a deep one. But his ass ran to the, he was in the pain. He turned around and went back out. That was the wildest shit I may have ever seen. That was so, that was so outraged. That was outrageously disrespectful. Bonkers. All of it's just fucking bonkers.

His, like, the chokes side was awesome. Oh, my God. I don't care. I don't care what the circumstance was that he, that he had his foot on. That was fucking awesome. All right, hold on. I got a quick, quick generational check here. Did either of you know Logan's going to say yes?

And I'm wondering if Raj's going to say yes. Did either of you know what Halliburton was talking about in the postgame press conference when he said he didn't want to be accused of aura farming. I just found that out. I just found that out. I was fucking lost. I had to Google it. I had to Google it.

I'm old. I love the. fact that he's that he he is wired this way and i don't think it is contrived i think this is just who he is like you you like it's those things are kind of baked together right like you either have to be wired that way to even want to do that in the first place if it's too contrived it'll look forced right even if you think that he's things of a little a little this out ahead of time and that he's like somebody who wants to bait you still have to have it in you to want to do that and to take all the smoke that comes with it right i've always loved that about him even going back to when he was with

the Kings. I always just, I, I liked this game. He's got that unconventional funky jumper, but like, that's why you knew in the moment that the King's fucked up, bro. You do it in a moment, because you just don't trade away guys like that. Even if you think he's a role player, you do not trade guys like that. He's just got, you know, like, I'm sorry in this era of everything being trackable, you know, rateable, metricable. He's got these intangibles that you can kind of see it is like people hate it saying oh swag or all this stuff that's that some of that shit's real and haliburton had something to him you could see it early on um it has grown as he has grown over time as this team has grown around him over time and that infuses the rest of your crew with

with that confidence too that's not that's not even that's not even that's not even swagger while it is swagger i'm going to say this like as as the biggest compliment i can that is obnoxiousness that is just pure that is um and in in in all of its greatness and they're only i'm really trying to rack my brain step's got that level of obnoxiousness where you're where you're like why would you why who would do that jordan jordan pool is obnoxious at times where you're like dude that doesn't he's a little hey hey jordan pulls a little shit i will say that like as a he could be a little shit yeah i say that affectionately but i'm not saying that they're all the same quality of player but the way their brain works the the the arrogance um that is ball lamello

Lamello has that where you're shooting shots and you're like dude no one in their right mind would think that they could pull that off handing the ball to cat at the end of the game like yeah you can't get a shot off in point two but still like who does that I fucking love it no look I love it too I was never blessed with that level of of confidence I wasn't I mean I was a confident dude but like I can't even wrap my mind around

going you got this floater slash layup and you look up now mind you this is happening so fast that this motherfucker you are on top of the rim you look at that shot clock and say oh no whole shit let me get back out to the three point line what bro that's why like the choke sign was so gangster because at the moment you got to think about it he thought that he ended the game he didn't have bro he did that on the road in the garden and said you know what fuck over time I'm about to go take this. You know who else had that shit? Larry Bird.

Larry Bird. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Larry's a wild stories about Larry. I just had that for sure. Yeah. But like I get what you're saying, Roger, where it's not, it hasn't, it doesn't necessarily have anything to what ability.

Ability does play a part in it. But it's the sheer attitude of like, I just don't give a fuck about you. Yes. Like, I don't. I remember, you talk about Jordan Pool and him having this. I just want to tell a quick story. This is probably is, and I wrote about it. Um, when he was in, when he was like a teenager, or maybe a teenager, like a young teenager,

he was probably like 13 or 14 years old. He used to go to the rec center and I believe he was from Milwaukee. And it was like a run that his dad used to do. And he used to cook them old dudes and talk so much shit that they wanted to fight him. Yeah. That is the type of shit that Halliburton is on. Like, come, come fight me, bro. Like, I don't care what you say.

I'm going to say, I'll land this shit. I'm going to hit it in your phone. to the point where you're pissed, but what the hell can you say? Because I'm winning. I'm winning. God bless you. I was never wired like that.

Like that's, I just. I respect it, though. You expect it until you get your ass wood. Because there comes a point that can't happen in the NBA, motherfucker, but you're running around in gyms with grown men running your mouth and you get your ass wood.

That part, that part. But he ain't going to be running around. This is why NBA players are different, though, because it ain't the NBA of, like, if he was doing this shit in the 80s, he would get his shit. like he would have to fight like Jordan had to fight you know these people lemo would have had to fight um john stark's headbutted reggie miller so you know yeah yeah

oh again another guy like that reggie miller was another guy like that the other guy who would do i would do the same move and run to the three point line to win it reggie would do yes reggie would do that you're right and and like all this shit like step does this shit the flailing and stuff and like this gross mad punchable face i'm getting really triggered right now i'm sorry All right. All that said, Logan, we love it. Because this, like, the theater of the game matters to the spectacle of the game matters to the personality. I don't want a bunch of Kawhi letters running around, right?

Like, I, this, like, the reason we have a reference point of Tyrese doing Reggie all these decades later is because Reggie did it in the first place. What happened in that series, by the way, Howard? I believe the next one. My guy Tommy Beer, who writes a substack, mostly Nick's focus, had actually a great deconstruction of this today. People can go look it up. I think it was one of this free posts. But it was about the idea of Reggie Miller being always labeled like a Nick killer,

but like in a lot of the bigger moments, like he had a lot of big moments, but they'd either lose the series. Yeah. And so it's, but I mean, both things are true, right? Like if you have those moments, it's because you took them down at that moment. If you lost the series, fine. I think the series ledger is pretty close. But like, whatever.

Like the moments happened. And it doesn't have to be what, you know, a 100%, you know, oh, he was somehow undefeated against the Knicks. Like, yeah, he was a Nick killer at moments. And he did it at the garden, which, you know, every player will still say is like a really special place to have performances like that. Halliburton just had a huge one. We're going to be replaying that one for.

years and decades to come and 20 years from now some some punk kid with the pacers is going to be like doing what he considers to be the haliburton maybe not even realizing it's actually the reggie miller or the sam cassel what yeah i'll take the choke sign over the big balls dance i'm not man i i know it's findable and this in halberton's case it wasn't finable but um i love that i'm gonna take the sam cass but not but not this not the sam cassel though that was uh who who wasn't that from like major league was it uh uh now you're getting out of my that was Pedro Serrano wasn't it we're locked in Pedro Serrano did that like he hit the home run and trotted around yeah okay getting

hey rosy get in your bag how much he's getting a bag or someone might have done it before him I don't know that what hell are we talking about now sorry you had a point to make Howard go ahead I'm sorry no no that was it that was it we're good okay okay as this series contentioned and there's a there's a stat that I want to um I don't want to mess up her name and she was on blue sky and she's great. I would say Kirthika. She was great. I think it's Kirthika and I'm not even going to try to attempt.

Yeah, but I'm not trying to, I'm not attempting her last name. I'm going to at some point reach out to her to make sure I have got the pronunciation right before. Love to her. Follow her on blue sky. She's great with the stats. She's great. She had a stat. She's awesome. Yes.

Tyrese Halliburton is five for six when taking a shot to tie or take the lead in the final 90 seconds of the fourth time or of the fourth quarter of overtime in this playoffs that is tied for the most such shots in a single postseason since 1997, Roger. That's crazy with who? Who would have done that in 97? What was that? I don't know. I don't know. It may be dated to 97 because that's the play-by-play era, what the stat keepers will all call the play-by-player. It's when we have enough of the stats.

available to do those kinds of breakdowns. Yeah, because this is wild. His run is wild. That's why you run your ass to the three point line. When you have that. But this was the whole thing with coming into the series. I thought, like, you know, man, you don't want any of these games to be close if you're the Knicks because Halliburton can do that shit.

But then you could go like, oh, you don't want these games to be close if you're the Pacers because Jaylon Brunson can do that shit. So like that's why I think it's still going seven games. I have no feel for the series. It's one game. Yeah. Yeah. We'll know more tonight.

I'll be there. All right. Are you going to be on the Chase Bridge? Or you're going to leave after like the second quarter? I will see what the score is. Always beat traffic. Always. Always.

Always, always avoid the crowd and beat the traffic. Roger, what time do you leave the Miami Heat game when you, when you're the rare time that you go to the Miami Heat game? Mofos know if they're with me, whatever game we're at, no matter what's happening. Midway through the fourth, we are out. we are not less than a lot. Raja be hell of mad when he has to see someone post game. Like when you had to see Stevie Nash post game,

I know you were hell of bad. No, no, no, I'm good with that, right? Because like if I'm standing and waiting for you post game, then I'm going to probably be there 45 to an hour after the game's over.

And I'm good on the back end. But like my kids will be looking at. We go to like hurricane games or like, you know, we go to mostly football games. And I'm looking at people. They're like, what? I'm like, get your shit.

We're leaving. I remember I left it. I did a, I pulled a back. Me and Beck are, apparently famous for this, like going to post game and dipping out, like, before the tip off. In front of the show, Sam made me gross this every time. In regular season games.

In regular season games, not in playoffs. But this happened to me one time, I went to a Warriors Jazz game. And I left before the tip because I wanted to go home. I would watch it at home. It's so much easier to watch it at home. Wesley, you know, we're spoiled in that way. But I get to my car and this, like, his fan is getting out of his car. He's like, you're leaving?

And he couldn't fathom like, you're leaving this? What are you? You're leaving the Warriors game? And I'm like, yeah, I got to go. And he was like stuck for like at least a minute. Like, can't believe you're leaving. But shit. Gotta go.

Got to go. Got to go. Got to go. Got to go. Got to get over this bridge. Anyways, that's a tough talk for now about the series. Cliff in the bubble. How you doing, buddy?

Fellas, fellas was good, man. It's a Friday. I'm feeling good. Sunny in Philadelphia today. Shout out left eye. Shout out. Rest and pieces, left eye Lopez.

Shout out Philly. Oh, she from Philly? I didn't know that. Is she from Illinois? I thought she was from Atlanta. Okay. Shout out to her. She moved down there to get famous.

Okay. As most people do. Anyways, let's get to this first question. Speaking of Miami, get real about the Miami Heat. This is from CJ Solito. I hope I'm pronouncing that right. Hello, world ones.

As a Miami Heat fan, this season did not go the way. I or many South Floridians wanted getting swept in the first round was demoralizing. Even worse was the embarrassing game three blowout with Shakira sitting on the sidelines, which should be seen as unacceptable. My question to you guys, number one, what will the team realistically do based on the past few off seasons in Pat Riley's press conference? Number two, what do you guys want to see the team do?

What are your pre pie in the sky wishes based on the current roster and makeup of the team? Who would they seek out and who would fit the roster? Who should be traded, et cetera. While the current Miami sports team is Jerry, I'm happy I've got a couple real ones to listen to during the long summer. Also, go Panthers. Thanks, CJ. CJ, 305, baby.

305 in my yayo. County, baby. Okay. What was I going to say? I think that best case scenario, like, you know, you somehow get Janus and you're writing the title contention. I think that's something that Pat Riley would love to do. It's not going to happen.

But I'm just saying the best case scenario, Howard. I'm just saying the best case scenario, Howard. What the worst, it's funny because like the, what they should do is like kind of retool around Bam, but I don't know if he's the guy to necessarily retool around. So do you break it down? But I just can't see a world where Pat Riley just admits defeat like this and just regroups. He's going to go star chasing and try to figure out.

He'd rather be in the middle than to just admit defeat and go into the lottery. So I think that's what's probably going to happen. He's going to probably tread the middle until a star. comes available or somebody that he believes fits in what the culture becomes available and he's going to go try to trade for him and then they're going to go right back to a version of what they were with Jimmy Butler. Like it's such a tough spot for them to be in, right? Like, Bam is really good, but Bam's not a number one.

I could argue he's not necessarily even a number two. Like maybe he's best as your number three because he's more of a defensive anchor and, you know, a versatile player, but he's not, you're not relying on him to carry you night in, night out offensively at all. They need a franchise star. Like Jimmy Butler was their guy for a good five-year run and then things went sour and they had to trade him and you got Andrew Wiggins and a pick. Like, shout out Mike Donleavy.

I mean, they're not going to tank certainly at this stage of Pat Riley's career and the stage of his life. He's not tanking, as Logan mentioned. free agency is tough because you know they got jimmy i think it ended up being a sign and trade or whatever but it was it was essentially free agency right he was he was free agent that summer and and stars as we know aren't changing teams in free agency anymore they're all just forcing trades they don't have cap room any time soon anyway so so forget free agency um they have two movable first round picks right now according to bobby marks you got tyler hero uh calail ware hyme hikes wiggins rosier like you're not getting

Janus with any combination of that stuff. Yeah. And like so I so there's there's no like combine your assets for a for a superstar deal coming here. Maybe if it were like an older star like what if the clippers decided you know what it's it's time to reset we're trading Hardin or we're trading Kawhi. Like could you get a guy like I wouldn't even completely rule out Kevin Durant only in this sense that I don't know what the real market is for Kevin Durant at the stage of his career because you're going to get him for like a couple of years at the back end. injury risk. You just don't know. I'm not saying Kevin Durant is likely either. I'm just bringing him up as like somebody who is got some qualifiers for them. Don't aggregate Howard, please. Do not aggregate him.

Yeah, for what that's worth. But you're not getting a guy who's in his prime. You're not getting a superstar in his prime for what you have to move. You're just not. So your hope is strike gold in the middle to late first round with the picks you've got, you know, like you've got the Warriors pick. You've got picks coming in future years of your own. But you're going to be treading the middle. Can you, can you, you know, thread the needle and find some, some great prospect in the middle of the first round? Or you blow it up.

And I don't think they're going to blow it up. So I know CJ, sorry, I don't have anything particularly encouraging to tell you about what their path is right now. I think their best hope is just to try to be competitive. He lives in South Florida. Yeah. He's fine. He's fine.

You see how happy Roger comes on during the time? like in the winter months. Like, you need to be all right, dog. CJ, Jay, hey, listen, I agree with all that. Jai Lucas and them are at University of Miami now, brother. They're making a push to keep the hometown kids home. You go check them out down there.

The Cane's football should be good. Notre Dame's coming into this bad boy week one. You could always swing up to Matter Lakes Academy and check out a young Thai bell. I don't know what to tell you. But like, yeah, the future out. Yeah, I agree with everything these two are saying about the heat, bro. Future out, baby.

You're going to be at that McDonald's. Hey, Rod. It's a nice couple clubs down there, too, that C.J. can hang out there, too, right? Oh, yeah, there's plenty of stuff. Now, I wouldn't be plugged in enough to know that, my boy. I'm like, you know, I've been a long time since yours truly was in the streets. Hey, hey, hey, hey, you know the vibes, though.

You know the fucking vibes, though. CJ, just hit up 11, man. It's popping all day. Next one is refereeing. This is from Rob, refereeing. Evening real ones. I keep hearing about how it's a good thing that the rest are not calling as many files because it's the playoffs.

I live in the UK and follow soccer really closely, but I couldn't imagine a Champions League final between Real Madrid and Chelsea, where the reps decide to kick seven shades of shit out of each other and the reps don't call it. Why in the NBA are the playoffs officiated differently to the regular season? Thanks for your time.

Rob Sheffield, England. Hey, man, I've watched like a handful of fucking, uh, fucking pre-brier league games and La Liga and shit. They'd be beating the shit out of each other in the biggest games. I don't want to be flopping, y'all. They be flopping in there. They flop a lot. And they're not like,

They don't get rewarded all the time with like, with points when you flop in soccer. Like they're not just giving away PKs all the time for the flops. You know what I mean? It's like, it's different. Chill out, Rob. Wait, well. Let us who. Let us hoop.

Rob. We all here for some physicality, man. Like nobody's, yeah, bro. Like, what? Wait, I do have a question for you because I didn't get to ask you just yet, Raja. SGA and the officiating. I wanted to ask you about that and your thoughts on that. You know what's fascinating about this for me?

My sons and the media push, like the media is fascinating, bro. Social media is fascinating. The drive to like make him out to be something that other people haven't been in this league is incredibly frustrating for me. Like my sons are in here showing, oh, look at him. I'm like, every score in the NBA who's led the NBA in scoring, guess what they did a whole hell of a lot of time? shots of free throws shot free throws why is he different well the aesthetics of it are different like yeah dude i watched them in game one not call fouls for him for a whole half i did like people are going to tell me he went to the free throw line and he did but there was plenty of stuff that he was trying to get that they

didn't give him look do do when he flops i call it a flop i'm not saying you reward all of that flopping and flailing like i i've i've said brunson is hard to watch yokech is hard to watch when they do it um um Luca's hard to watch sometimes when they do it. But there's someone you've done a good job as an offensive player of creating something that is illegal. And when you can master that and it's illegal and you take an advantage by drawing the foul, like I don't see the problem with that necessarily. But neither here nor there. The way the media is trying to portray him like he is doing something different than anybody else has ever done to earn fouls really

and that he's being given something that they haven't been giving is incredibly frustrating for me. I think that's more fans than media. I think that's more fans than media, Raj. I think it's like a lot of people from various fan bases on social media, like trying, like who are pissed off and frustrated by it. You're right. I don't, you're right. I don't, you're right.

That's why I qualified it and said social media because I said media at first, but it's more on socials, right? And that's the narrative that's being driven. Yeah. And like, you know, who knows? Like if the debate shows are taking this up too and they're like, I don't know because I don't watch that crap. but there's no question that like there's nothing particularly unique about what Shea's doing.

I think there's a greater focus on that stuff now than there once was because of social media, also because we all have like high-deaf 65-inch TV screens and can like slow everything down to a millisecond and go like, ah, he initiated or he flail. Like whatever Michael was doing back in the day or Kobe was doing or a lot of especially, you know, smaller, not smaller, but like, you know, dynamic athletic guards who can do do so much. And we didn't have, like, there's different technique now that I think it's just the iteration, right? Like, everybody in every era had shit that they pulled. And that includes big men too with some of the stuff they would do in the poster or trying to get rebound position

or locking a guy's arm and all that's like all that stuff, the hand on the hip. Like, there's always been, you know, some of the dark arts involved. It's just more of a discussion now, because we have 24-7 debate shows and we have social media, which is a true 24-7 debate show of its own kind. So I don't know. But, Raj, actually, the, the listeners question, I was going to say like reader, Rob says, why are the playoffs officiated differently than the regular season?

And I'm not sure I accept the premise. So I wanted to throw this at you. Do you think that the playoffs are actually differently officiated? Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Like they, they, if I didn't, if I didn't see it with my naked eye and, and know what I was looking at because I'd been in it so long, I could tell by the reaction that you get from the people that are getting fouled and just utter disbelief that this isn't a foul. And the reason they feel like that is because they're conditioned for it to usually through the regular season be rewarded. And now they're not getting rewarded for it all the time. So I do think it's rough different, but I'm telling you I'm okay with it. Like I like a more physical brand of basketball. But I don't think it's really truly debatable when you watch some of these games and the level of physicality.

There was a play. Man, it happened right in the, I want to, damn it. I don't remember what it was. It was SGA, but someone had him like bottled up, like right around half court. He had just crossed over half court. The amount of times that he got bumped, push, shoved, and they didn't call that, they don't typically let that go during the regular season. Even Brunson's had to deal with some of that, with knee Smith on him last game. We're like, he's trying to get where he wants to go.

And this is hand-to-hand combat. Like, these dudes are literally like hand-to-hand combat. They don't let that shit go all the time in the regular season. Yeah, for sure. I mean, Steve once told me, I did this piece on last year's finals called the Seven Commandments of Playoff scoring. And I interviewed a lot of people for it. And one of the commandments was just embrace physicality because it's going to come no matter what in the postseason. And one of the great quotes that Steve said was all the bullshit is eliminated in the postseason, right?

Like all the tickey tack fouls, they pretty much just call it like very, I wouldn't say more honest. But if they called more fouls in the postseason, it would be seven-hour games because there's just so much more physicality inherently in the postseason. I got a quick stat for you guys. the fouls, personal fouls per game in the regular season this year was 18.6, two teams combined. What do you suppose it is right now in the playoffs? Was it 8.1.6? 20.5. 20.5. So they're calling more fouls per game right now than they were in the regular season.

How's that for a counterintuitive stat? Take that for data. That's so interesting, right? Like the human element of his like, yo, it's more, it's like it's just more physical and they call less fouls, right? But I think any player down the line, that's what they say. They play more physical too, right? So like, yeah, and you're not going to call everything. Right.

Right. And the more physical, look, look, the more physical a ref is going to be with a whistle, meaning the more he's going to let you get away with, the more typical, the more typically the more physical it's going to get. Because me as an offensive player, I'm like, all right, I got to get into bully ball. Like we got to, and that is going to generate more foul calls. So like, to me, it's not counterintuitive that that. stat would go up because like they're the game is because of the way they're officiating it,

it's being played a lot more physical. Yeah. I will say this too real quick. Like you're getting to the best teams, right? You have the 16 best, which is then down to the eight best, the four best. And those also tend to be some of the best defensive teams. You also have most of the elite offensive players who are are just good at either getting away with shit or drawing contact or whatever. Like you're going to perceive the game a little bit different when it's, the four best teams left. And the refs have to deal with a higher level of talent there where guys are good at either playing without fouling or playing physically without necessarily fouling because it's not

whether you make contact literally. It is, does it affect the play? Does it affect the shooting? Do you make it illegally? Right. Yes. So like there's a lot of little nuance to this stuff that is not just like, oh, they just let everything go.

I also do think though psychologically, if not policy wise. because I don't think it's policy. I don't think the league is saying, go, let more stuff go. I think it would make sense to me if you were a referee that the stakes being higher, you're going to want to defer a little bit more

to let them play through it. Yeah. Then insert yourself as much because the stakes are higher. You're like, I could see them doing it just a little bit differently, even subconsciously. I don't know if that's fair or not.

I'll have to do, if I run into Moni McCutcheon again tonight, I'll have to ask him. Yeah. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So you're going to rest. And I got one more question after this. Roger, how did you, what were your feelings when you saw Scott Foster get fucked up last night? I got no beef with Scott Foster, man.

Oh, I don't know. I mean, a lot of people do. I don't want Roger rooting for a bloody nose. I don't want anybody to get hurt. You know, it's wild? Chris Paul was, was courtside that gave because, of course. People are mean. Cliff, one more question.

Let's do this one. I was saving the best for last. This is from Curtis Young. Russ's fault. A piece of the athletic about the end of the biggest season and several lines took shots at Westbrook's play in the series ending game. I did not watch the game, but wonder about the media's propensity to place major blame

for team failures on Westbrook. And the learned opinion of the real ones experts was this Russ hate deserved? Wait, first before he goes there, I want to first go to Roger, because this is Roger's question. What did he say? The propensity to place, the propensity to place major blame for team failures on Westbrook.

That's amazing. That's amazing pros right there. Remember, he's blaming the media for that one too. Which is, that's fine. I'm talking about the pros of the question was very impressive. Shout out to him. Okay, Roger's revving up. I'm just going to sit back. I'm just going to relax over here. Listen, I know we're going to do it.

It's the movie. That's the movie. It was half big, right? I know what everybody thinks I do to do. Coming here and like, I'm not going to do it, dude. You're not going to get me today. Bro, I'm like 99% out of this pod dog. I got shit to do.

I'm not about to do that. I'm not about to do that, man. He was checked. Let me just do this. Let me just do this. I think the listeners are actually like, like, every week somebody should like, I'm going to get let him go. Let him go.

Clear out. Clear out. Clear out. Clear out. Clear out. Clear out. What year is Russell Westbrook in? Someone, I don't have it in front of me.

What year is he? 16? Is that accurate? He's in your fucking 16. All right. He's in your 16. Did he play well in the fucking series? No.

How are we doing? Again, we're moving goalpost, dude. We're moving goal. In what world does the person that's in their 16th year that's on the minimum contract get blamed for a failure of a damn team that is unworldly? We don't do that to anybody, but Russ, it's crazy. I feel like I'm taking fucking crazy. PILS if you don't like him fine. When do we blame the seventh string wide receiver for like fucking up a series?

Like when do we do that? The backup quarterback gets blamed for not winning the Super Bowl. Like it's like looking down at my like the kid I play for like, come on man. It's hyperbolic. Now Russ played, Russ did play real minutes in that series and he wasn't great. Right. I get it. But I agree with you, dude.

Like if, if anyone is. painting the narrative that Russ was the problem in that series. And that's why they lost shame on you, bro. That's irresponsible. Tears are in my eyes right now. Real tears. That was awesome. That was awesome, Roger.

Thanks, Lord. Oh, shit. I feel better. You feel better, buddy? I do. Damn it. I don't like trying to contain that. Sometimes that shit's got to get out.

Hey, fuck that. Let it out, bro. Let can let it out. I'm worried about no one. Come on, man. I'm team rush. You already know. what you already know it you're the motherfucker fives you're fucking five i'll let your boy bro i got you

oh that has been another edition of real ones oh god oh my goodness it got too real it got too real oh you can catch this thursdays and fridays only on the ringer NBA feed oh but real tall real tall let me go back in like it's like cliff we got a bad episode we got a bad episode episode, right? Me and you and Howard were shit or like me and you did your job and Howard would shit and I sucked and we're blaming Cliff. It was definitely shit, right? Yeah. We're blaming victorious. We're blaming victorious. We're like what? Come on. I'm blaming Cruz. Definitely Ben Cruz as well. Connor Nevins. What the fuck, dude? Oh, man. Okay. I think that is just, I think that we can

wrap out. That's been another edition of Real On ones. You get all this when you do, when you tap into Realwoods mailbag at gmail.com, baby. Real Ones mailbag. at gmail.com. We do this every time that Howard is on the program. Shout out to you. Shout out to Miami. Shout out to the yay. Shout out to New York and Brooklyn and all the places that Williamsburg. I don't know where the hell Howard be at. But anyway, Carol Gardens, baby. Anyways, we'll see you guys on Monday. Shout out to Victoria. Shout out to to Cliff. Shout out to all the homies. Bye. Must be 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas.

and affiliation with the Kansas Star Casino or 18 and older and present in D.C.C. You have a gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RGhelp.com. Call 1-88-78-8-7-7-7-7 or visit ccpg.org. Or visit mdgamblinghelp. Dot org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline.

M.A.org or call 1-800-3-27-50-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts. or call 18778-8 Hope N-Y or text Hope N-Y in New York.