The Ringer NBA Show - Thunder’s Vibes Have Them Above Everyone, Plus the Warriors' and Timberwolves' Woes! | Real Ones

Episode Date: January 17, 2025

It’s Friday vibes here on Real Ones as Logan and Raja fire up their mics to discuss just how good the Thunder really are after their big win over the Cavaliers (5:44). After the break, they discuss how the Kings look so far under Doug Christie (23:02), just how nasty things are in Golden State (0:00), and the Timberwolves’ frustrating season (32:45). They add in some football talk with their NFL divisional round playoff picks (46:30). And in ‘Real One of the Week’ they discuss the discourse between Jimmy Butler and Pat Riley, plus Shaq’s comments on Jamal Murray (49:40) Get you tickets to the live show at The Punchline in San Fran 2/15/25 here: https://www.universe.com/events/the-ringer-nba-show-real-ones-live-tickets-9NVPKF Hosts: Logan Murdock & Raja Bell Producer: Brian H. Waters Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping, everybody? Logan Murdoch here from Real On the Ringer NBA show. And I want to invite you to pull up and kick it with Roger Bell, Howard Beck, and myself during All-Star weekend for our live podcast. We're going to be at the Stork Punchline Comedy Club in San Francisco on Saturday, February 15th at 2 p.m. pre-gaming all the all-star festivities. And you never know who might stop by. Get your tickets now by heading over to ringer.com backslash events. That's ringer.com backslash events. to see you there. Real ones.

Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there, Howard next week. Friday vibes, man. You know, that's what we're going to, that's what we're calling it right here. Friday vibes get you ready for the weekend.

We're going to talk about some, let's look at the rundown that I just made five minutes ago. Red Talk Thunder Cavs, Kings, Jamal Murray, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. First of all,

how you doing, Roger, it's Friday. What's going on? Listen, man, it's good. We got basketball games tonight. high school, college, pro. We got some football this weekend.

I'm straight. You locked in? You happy? You're good? Yeah. Anything you want to tell the listenership? Anything? Like anything that you want to tell them?

Any update on life? I don't know. No, no. I think I'm good. I thank you guys for listening. I'm happy to be here on a Friday. Let's go. I just heard, though, that you got your flight.

booked for the Bay. Oh, I'm there. I mean, I'm getting in a little, a little late. But I'm going to make that work. I'm there. You can tell how excited I am, right? You're really excited. You don't even know your flight information.

I had to ask a third party to see if you were actually coming. Yeah, I don't like airports and like traversing them anyway. I certainly don't like crowds. So, like, they're, it combines like two of my least favorite things, right? Like being in airports. Like you're waiting in lines and shit. And I got to be moving through an airport with a bunch of people.

So like, forgive me. I'm excited to see you and the fans and do this show. It's the damn travel that I don't really love. Come fuck with us about the punchline February 15th. Their tickets still available. Okay. That's right. The real question that I have is the first,

it's a first world question that I have for you. Okay. Is the reason you don't like airports is because you spent a life time actually like circumventing the the actual airport process throughout your career. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It ruined you. So, I mean, for the listener, like we were talking prepod, we had an in-home visit last

night with University of Texas. And we were literally having that conversation about how spoiled I had been being a pro athlete. And to some degree, like major collegiate athletes with the things that they're able to do and how they're able to kind of little stuff for me like the airports are certainly one of the things that I was that that I was ruined for the rest of my life with um uh doctor's appointments dentist appointments things that normally are just hey you just show up and you go right in calling someone and having them tell me that like one of the kids can't get in for like a week

and a half i it doesn't even register in my brain sometimes it like triggers me and i know it shouldn't I know it shouldn't. And after a minute, I come to my senses like, yo, this is just real life, dude. But like initially almost every time it happens, I get a little triggered. What else, man? Like, I don't know.

Restaurants a little bit. Really? Yeah, but I don't be out of restaurants that much. Is it like the reservation or something? Or is this more like people coming to you? No, it's the reservation. It's the reservation. It's the you can't like for a really nice one.

And like, I'm not in the street. So I don't have the relationships with the people at the restaurants. You know? So like, if you really want to go. to something. Off the thing like you used to at Balters. You can't just boot somebody out of their seat

because Roger Bell is going to be here. Shit like that. But I'd rather be home. If it means if being at home and chilling means that I have to give all of that up, I'm cool with that. Like it's a fair trade for me. Do you have an airplane or a rewards account?

That's the biggest thing. Do you have a rewards account? Do you know what that is? I'm a Hertz member. I'm a gold Hertz member. Do you have a? Like, do you have like rewards at hotels or like, like? Yeah, I do.

And also like an airline? I don't think I have an airline one. No. My wife, my wife probably does. She does. She books all of our shit. Okay. Okay.

I'm just seeing how you're, you know, coming back to, you know, other, real life. So, you know, she books all of our shit, man. I just show up. All right. Well, speaking of being in the clouds, the Oklahoma City Thunder who are hovering above us all. Wow, bro. Your development has been remarkable. It's just been a steady.

It's just been a steady. It's been every year I think you've like, man, hey, he's really good. Like he's reaching the ceiling. And there you go. I try to add something to my game. Every time when I leave and I come back, I just want to add something.

Like, I'm in the gym, brother. I'm in the gym. I'm watching other pods. I'm seeing what they're doing. I'm locked the fuck in. I'm not playing. You guys may think I'm not the way. And I am, but I'm still here.

I'm still here. Yeah. In the lab. So I came to the day, like I was thinking, you know, after the Tuesday pod you know what are some of the things throughout the week

that I should keep an eye on right and obviously this big game against the Thunder and the Cavaliers I was ready to have this full like discussion on state of the league state of these two teams and then the Thunder just in the words of my my girl Yana Mack in East Oakland they just dog walked them

they just dog walked the caps just just kicked the shit out of them just it was just a sight to be hold just like how bad they beat the breaks off of them, you know, without Hartnstein, without Chet. Their defense was great. It was a sight to behold. But I think the bigger thing that I took away from this,

and we could talk about, you know, Shay dropping 40 points in 29 minutes. That's crazy. Just we could talk about how OKC is the number one defense in the league in terms of turnover generations. They force turnovers on 18.5 opponent possessions. You can shout out Tom Ziller for that anecdote right there. But what I see overall with this team right now,

every few years you get a team or a group of players that kind of take not only the league by storm, but the culture around the league by storm. And I think this team is starting to do that on a big stage. And now that they're winning at this clip, the kids want to be them. geez, they're starting to hate on them a little bit for having too much fun. Hello, Draymond Green.

We see you. I love what I'm seeing out of the thunder. And I think this can be a group. I was talking about Monty Jones yesterday. We're going to have him on on Tuesday. And we were talking about just how this team can beat you in so many different ways. But they also have the culture on lock. What have you seen from this team?

What do you like about this team? what makes them special? You said you did a deep dive, a little deep dive of yesterday's game. What did you see? And what did you see overall from this team? Well, I didn't do a deep dive of shit.

That was just me. Like, I didn't deep dive anything. Just, that was just procrastinating and Kevin before the pot. No, it's all good. But no,

I mean, I look, deep dive would suggest some serious research and an amount of time put into, to the stats that that's above my pay grade. I would say that, like their ability to play in it their ability to play in in different ways um you know you you mentioned

being without their true size last night um and then basically dictating to to cleveland that cleveland would have to scale down in size to try to play with them and then once they did that it was a rap um you know like they have an ability to play in different ways they have a ton of skill um you know on the on the court at any given time a bunch of people that can make plays with the ball. Maybe the best pure score. I mean, he's a professional scorer. Like, this is maybe the best in the game in terms of like pure, pure bucketry.

But, but they coupled that with just real passion on the defensive end of the court, like real, real griminess and grit and effort. in a way that doesn't have many holes in it. Like you typically will get teams that might put forth that defensive effort or might be an overall, you know, good team schematically defensively, and that's, you know, the numbers might represent that. But like you, you might even on those teams not get five cats on the court most of the time that are just, will just get after you defensively.

And they have an ability to kind of do that. And it's really disruptive. The amount of the amount of deflections. and steals and block shots and the length that's flying around, you know, on defense at you when you've got the ball and how versatile those guys are. Like, it's disruptive. And so they've got an ability to do that. And when you couple that with like, you know, that's going to give you, I don't know,

they had 22 transition like off turnover, not transition, but like points off turnovers yesterday in the first half. Like that's a crazy amount of points to seed to someone who is really good offensively. even in the half court. You're going to be giving them 20 a night off of their defensive prowess. That's a wild, that's kind of a wild combination.

So they're tough. You brought up Shea, and we just talked about his offensive ability. But like, he's one of the, I think he's a top five defender in terms of numbers in the league, right? And even the eye test shows

that he is a top five defender in the league. What does it do when your best player is also your best defender? Your best offensive player is also your best defender, right? We see that with Kauai, but like that's pretty rare, especially when your best defender is a wing in the way that M'Shea is. I would, let me ask this question to you.

I'll answer your question with the question. Point, point like to the guys that you can remember being that for their teams. LeBron at a point in time, I think, with the heat when he was just at his absolute peak, 2022 LeBron, excuse me. Yeah, okay. 2014 Kauai Okay As a wing right

Yeah I guess Kevin Garnett But like Kevin Garnett was a big right So Tim Duncan Yep Tim Duncan It's all supporting where I'm going with this Kobe at a point

Kobe at a point Yeah but also I don't think he was the best defender On the team Like you could say Rick Fox was also taxed to school I think he was a great defender But I don't know if he was the best one on the team That's fair I'd make an argument that as

as that as he phased into like superstardom, whether he chose to be it every night or not. Like I think he's probably your most talented and best defender at times. But I, so I guess. But that's not even 10 guys, right? We're not even, okay, Bill Russell maybe, right? No, but all of these, you're talking about historical greats for the most part. Right? You're talking about every one of those was a name that you'd say, yeah, well, yeah,

where would you put him in the top maybe 50 to 75 players? Do you know what I mean? know, just about every one of those names you just mentioned. So, so, and I only say that because I don't know where people slide KG in that conversation, but it's a very, it's a very rare thing, I guess, was, that was my long, winded way to get to that point. Like, it's very rare that your best offensive player, when your best offensive player is one of the best in the league and might be able to produce a championship with offense alone, it is very rare that that same player is one of your best defenders.

Yeah. Like it's a very rare thing. And what it does is, and it's no secret. Like it's, it's, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it's, it, it, it's, it, that is, a precedent as a coach or a, an organization and you can establish a culture. Um, part of that is being able to hold people accountable, um, and, and, and being able to point, you know, to something that is, that is, that is bigger, greater or better than someone else and say, look, they do it. You need to do it. And when it is your best player, it just makes life so much easier.

Like when that guy is out there setting the tone for how we are going to act defensively and what we're going to put forth as an effort defensively and how we're going to take, how we're going to take this game plan and really be dialed in and locked into what we want to do schematically. Like it just, it is a weight off of a coach's shoulder and when your best player is doing that and he's leading the charge. Two more questions on this topic. One is, I think OKC is in the vibes part of their run, right? And I think you see this.

There's nothing better about the run than the ascent. In my opinion, especially if you're going into your, I don't know if they're going to win a title, but like if you're going into your first title, it's always the ascent. That's the fun time, right? Where your vibes, where you're having fun. It seems like with this team,

they are able to not necessarily check their, ego at the door, but simultaneously have their ego, but also, I'm talking about, there's a clip that just came out with Shay and J-dub and J-Lan Williams, where Shay is basically bigging up Jay Will about how he can guard, and we'll get to this, that will lead to my second question, but how he can guard all five positions at 6-6-6-4 in front of J-dub, right? And they're like, oh, chill, chill, chill, like, oh, man, they're. The Rizz is just great. But all that point being is this team is a team that seems to love each other, even in spite of when the egos could break them apart.

What kind of magic do you have to have as a team when your ego is like as big as this team's ego is, but also you guys can be, can fit and it doesn't have to be beef. Because we've seen a lot of teams that have the ego and the talent and all those things. things, but because they have the ego, it breaks them apart. Yeah. And also, I will say big caveat that it is early, but, you know, at this point, this is what it seems. Sure. Well, first of all, I think you have to give a real shout out to Oklahoma City, the brain trust, the front office, the culture that they've established, obviously what they've done via the draft. their player development staff.

The way they handle themselves and their team, I think suggests that they don't really, you know, there's some organizations you can be in where you're walking around the halls and you feel like there's a real star treatment that's given in the building and it causes a bit of a separation in your locker room. Clearly, they have stars that are bigger than others

and more driving forces than, others and they're paid accordingly, but that doesn't always mean you have to have that, um, like palpably felt when you're in the building, right? Like you don't, you don't have to have that. And I, I get the feeling I'm not in there, but they, they, they've been able to really protect that. Like, hey, yeah, we have, we all have different level contracts. We're different level of players. We're different level of all NBA's, but, but we are going to treat this as a family. And we're not going to rub anyone's nose in the fact that, you know, someone else might be more integral to the success of this team. Right. And so that, that, that fosters.

a level of camaraderie. It keeps people feeling like they're a part of something bigger than themselves and they all have relatively equal value, even though, you know, no one's crazy. I think it's very interesting because a lot of those guys, they have a lot of people in the same window, same age range, right? And so like on some teams, you know, typically that's why they say older, older, more mature teams would win games. But on those teams, you'd have a bunch of dudes with kids. You know, I remember going to the Spurs, right? When I didn't make their roster and they were just coming off of a championship.

And that team was, you know, I remember being on the plane. And I had been in Atlanta and there were some younger players on Atlanta. And so we were vibing and doing things on the plane in a way that like younger people did. Right. And then I got to San Antonio and you had Avery Johnson. You had David Robinson. you had Steve Kerr, Danny Ferry, Jared Jackson, senior.

You know, Timmy D was kind of younger. But the point was, these were all people like in the same wheelhouse of age. They all had families. They were all getting on the plane kind of like, hey, we're not here. This was a business trip for them. You could see that, you know, everyone was buttoned up. They had their grown man on in a way, right? Yeah.

I have no idea what the vibes are in OKC, but they're all in that same kind of window. of age where they're probably similar, they're similar interest, right? Like they're similar, you know, things, they probably want to get into similar things. I don't know who has a family and who doesn't, but like you're probably in the same age range with kids.

So it provides opportunity. So that really becomes like a family, Logan. You know, when you get a bunch of people around the same. Yeah, man. Yeah. It's hard to explain that. But like we had it in Phoenix a bit where a lot of us were, a lot of us were we weren't baby we weren't young i was a baby by no stretch we were just starting

to have families some people had just had them cindy and i were just starting to try to have one we were kind of in the same and so all interests were kind of aligned people like to hang out with each other and you just had a just a family vibe yeah i mean you can kind of see that with this group right like they were it does seem like as close to a family as you can get i want to talk to about i want to talk, though, about the basketball side of it, which leads it to my second question, which is going back to the game last night, right, where we saw two Titans, at least of this season coming at each other. And it felt like a code was cracked. And maybe it's just, you know, it's a Thursday in January. Maybe we're just looking too much into it. Right. But like,

the fact that the thunder can go small and there was nothing that the Cavs could do about it seems a little disheartening for the Cavs, right? Especially considering the fact that their biggest op in the Eastern Conference, the Celtics, can also go small and be just as effective and potent if need be. If you're

the Cavs and if you're the the Thunder, what does last night's game tell you that you need to improve upon on your team or, you know, keep going, do it. I mean, you know, that's a tough one because we're only we can only play the personnel that we have. So,

So, you know, if we're the calves, you know, if we're the calves, it could be worrisome. Now, Boston might have the ability to do that. But, you know, it's all, again, it's all about the personnel and whatnot. They might not be able to do it exactly like OKC did it, right? And so, you know, if it's, they might, they don't have the exact same personnel. You know, they might not be as disruptive. Like, OKC just punched them in the mouth. like they just you know what I'm like you run that game back multiple times and I don't I don't it's not

gonna it's not gonna look like that I'm sorry they just got punched in their mouth now I'm not telling you okay see wouldn't beat them um or I wouldn't pick them to win in a series like but but what I'm saying is that level of like beat down was just a weird weird thing so I'm gonna I'm gonna chalk that up probably if I'm Cleveland but there is something to it Logan and what I would say they'd probably need to get better at is um how we're going to play this game. And we need to keep that length on the floor. Like Mowbly, Allen, we need to have them out there. And so we cannot allow, you know, a game to get to a place where we have to scale down to try to run with a team that wants to scale us down.

They're going to win that. This is a chess match, right? And so like if our best lineups include these bigs, we got to be very, very, very protective of situations that put us at risk of having to take them off the floor. I think last night, you know, turnovers and ball security put them in a tough spot. You were gifting them too many points. You couldn't keep up. They had you spread out on the other end and you'll have to protect against that. I don't have the answer. I'm not the coach. Like, you know, I haven't sat here and really broken down the film on that. But that was would be my takeaway, right? Because it's always a chess match. It's always a, hey, who's going to get who to play the other one's game? Like, this is our wheelhouse, not unlike football, right? Like,

we're a running team. We want to control the clock. We want to shrink the game. And so we want to sit on this ball. But if the other team that wants to speed it up, get points, gets that early turnover and can put seven on the board, well, now this running team that wants to sit on the ball, like they're getting a little tight. Don't let them not convert. And the other the team goes up 10 or 14, now you got to scrap your game plan. Yeah. The cold part, though, is they still got Chet and Hardinstein coming back. Like, so like, yeah, we can play small, but also like, we can, we can do whatever you want. You want to play big. We could also imagine what you would with the bigs as well. But they would, but it wouldn't expose, it wouldn't

expose you in the way. Like, I make the argument that Chet and Hart, Chad and Isaiah out there in any tandem form or singularly is better for Cleveland in a matchup. You know what I mean? There are more truer matchups out there for their length. For sure. Let's take a quick break.

We're going to talk about the Kings, Kings. Kings. Kings. We'll find out the next segment. And we are back. Let's talk some Kings, which is not something we talk more, talk about mostly in a positive light

as of late. They are a few weeks removed from firing their coach, Mike Brown, which seemed to be dubious circumstances, right? It seemed to be a very king's move, still stand on that. But they are eight and two since that happened since Doug Krista took over his coach. I mean, they beat Houston on Thursday night. It was one of the, the kings have been one of the teams I've been kind of eyeing over the last week. And I wanted to see what they did in front of a national TV audience.

and they played pretty well, right? They did good. They beat a Houston Rockets team who was coming into the game, winning six straight. Houston, probably a year away, right? Like, doing good now, but I'd be scared of them. Jalen Green, I have to give you your flowers, buddy. I've been shitting on you on this podcast over the last few years. I think rightfully so, considering, you know, the things that have been reputationalally

what has happened, but he's been working hard. he's gone from being trade bait to now being the best player on the team. So kudos to you, but we're talking about the kingdom now. Sacramento has had an offensive rating of 118.9 over that span and defensive rating of 112.7.

That's not quite in the Raja zone of top 10 of offensive and defensive efficiency, but their fourth in offensive rating and 12th in defensive rating. I guess what I want to ask is, right? Everything that we said, the kings right now are a prime example of two things can be true. And one of those things is it was an ugly way to get rid of your coach that you seem to have not wanted over the summer and then put in a guy that you've been wanting for years unapologetically in the bench.

And it was just an ugly way to go about doing business. But the result is there. It's a 10 game sample size. We'll see what happens. Roger, what do you see with this team? And does, is this enough of a sample size to tell you that this was the right move? Okay. No, it's not.

Let's start there. Not enough of a sample size. What I see is joy, fun, vibes, freedom. That's what I see out of them. And so while it's too much of a, it's not enough of a sample size to definitively say, I'm not doubting that it might ultimately continue to produce this this year and moving forward. I just because freedom of spirit and fun and joy are so big in terms of your ability to produce to the best of your ability. They're hard to quantify.

People don't put a lot of stock in it all the time. there are things, you know, on paper or or analytically speaking that people will point to and be and be the reasons why someone is or isn't hooping. And far too often we don't like ask he or she, hey man, are you having fun doing that? Like is this, you know, and that's a big deal. And I see that from them. And I, I want to say this, I could have been wrong about Sacramento. And I want to acknowledge that because if they knew, and we're not there, but we're reading the tea leaves and we were saying, like, you know, that stuff about, you know, Deerrin and Mike seems to suggest that there's a little bit of friction there. Clearly, there was something going on. I don't know if it

was necessarily just between those two, but clearly there was something going on in a way that the organization could see that, that, you know, there was tensions and people weren't being able to be the best version of themselves and they had to make a move. My only caveat to what I said would have been, you probably knew that coming into the year. And so you could have done it then. And so I still would stand on messy and like right in line with what Sacramento does. But I do want to give them credit because this season was salvageable. Yeah. Like by the nature of the Western Conference and the race out there, like if you could have gotten it fixed,

like with the move and at least, you know, in the short term you have, you're squarely in the mix to be in the playoffs. And so like you, then you owe that roster that move. Sure. So I'm, I'm with you on that.

And I do think there was just a bit there. You know, the interim coach can go one of two ways. I think you've been on the other way of what I'm about to say, which is like, could just go to shit, right? Or there could be the vibes conversation. I'm talking about like how Antonio Pierce last year with the

Vegas Raiders, right? Where the vibes carried you throughout, but that didn't necessarily mean that they were going to carry you into, you know, subsequent seasons, right? And I think that's where the kings are right now, right? Like they're, they're doing well with, I think there was a quote out there, Malik Monk was saying, like,

yo, we just got to buy in at this point. what else we got to do, right? Which is a good, I think a good attitude to approach this with. The other side of it is, though, organizationally, those pieces are still there, right? They still have the same question marks, right? Like, even if they do get to the playoffs, are they competing with the OKCs of the world?

No. Are they expected to compete with the OKCs and the Denver's of the world and seasons going forward? No, like there has to be institutional chains one way or another. So I think that they're still having to look in the mirror on what they want to be. Like, I don't think are they going to be, you know what I mean? So it's always a confliction when I see them winning because it's like, yeah, they're winning right now. But institutionally, all the bad stuff that was there is still there.

And it's not changing. It doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon. Well, yeah, I mean, that's fair. and both things can be true. Like we might have to continue to build this team and move pieces to ultimately get over the hump in the Western Conference. But, you know, we also owe it to this roster

to be the best version of ourselves and put them in the best positions to win basketball games this year, right? And I would make the argument, as I did in Cleveland when I was there, I've told this story before about, you know, LeBron and David Blatt and David Griffin thinking that we needed to make a change.

And my point about it was like we have to see what this is when they're playing well to know what changes need to be made. And I'd make the same argument for Sacramento. Like when everything is bad, vibes are bad, players don't like the coach, not playing hard for the coach, not doing what they're supposed to do because everybody's at each other's throat. Like we don't even know where to go as a Sacramento King's organization in the summer. We don't know what moves to pull.

But like if we're playing good basketball close to the best version of ourselves and we're coming up short and we're losing, there's a much clearer picture of who we are and what we need to do to chase those teams that you mentioned. So, you know, I think even in the space that you're talking about where you're probably not favored to win in the Western Conference, like playing good basketball and playing close to your ceiling as a team is going to give an organization a lot better understanding of, of, what needs to be what needs to be done. And, you know, you referenced kind of the, the situations I was in, but the situations I was in with coaching turnover seem, seem to be different. And I want to say seem because I'm not there. But I read a lot of quotes and a couple articles about, you know, Sacramento and, you know, what the players are saying about Christy and what he's saying to the media,

you know, he's coming in as a quote unquote, like breath of fresh air. Like, let's get back to just being like people come in this building. They got to leave here feeling like they were in a fight. Like, we need to be united. Arms locked was one of his quotes. Like, you know, we might have to get in a dust up here and there because, you know, we're playing so hard. Like, that's the language of, of, you know, kind of like the base language of NBA players

or NFL players or any competitor. Like, let's just strip all this bullshit that is the politics, the, the feeling. all of that. And let's just get back to hooping. Right? Let's share the ball. I heard multiple or read multiple quotes about sharing the ball on offense and playing free. And that's a breath of fresh air approach. The situations I was in, and I talk about this a lot, the ones that typically don't work, is when you get that change and it's a very heavy hand.

So we're not talking about breath of fresh air. We're talking about more suppression, just not the old guy's suppression. We're talking about the new guy's suppression. that shit barely works. That rarely works. But you come in there with breath of fresh air. I was a player. Like, you know,

Christy is approaching it more like a player, I think, than like a quote unquote, I'm trying to be the next head coach of this team. And I think guys are responding to that. Yeah. All right. Let's go down I-80 and see a team that is not breathing any fresh air at all. It's kind of, it's quite toxic.

It was funny because Ben Cruz was on the call and he quickly left. Once he heard, we saw him in the prepod meeting. He came through in the prepod meeting. We talked about the warriors. And then we started potting. And then he quickly was like off the call. Like it just made him depressed. Yuck.

Let me, let's get some thing right now. So they're at the, the warriors are at the stage right now where Steph is saying openly, the warriors shouldn't make any desperate moves at the deadline. Then he's like the next night, he's like, don't get it messed up. I still want to win. I don't think that the front office has done anything near the job it requires to build a contender.

It's nasty in Golden State right now. And it's not even fun to watch them play, right? Like, I don't know how much you watch the Warriors this year. I've watched them a little bit. It seems like every once in a while, they'll find the magic. But then it's like, but it's like it's like when an old act is in Vegas, right, where you go. down the line. They play to hits or whatever, but it's just not quite what it used to be, right? That's where the warriors are right now. I think I just want to talk to this. I don't even have a

question. Does it look as nasty to you as it does to me right now? I guess that's the question. I mean, nasty, I think you guys are a lot closer to the warriors than I am. So like I don't have the same feelings about that as you do. I thought it was very interesting to hear step come out and kind of say what he said um and i you know and i think he's in an interesting spot right because step feels like a partner with that organization right that's what you say when you feel like you're a partner in that right like this is um we don't want to do anything to you know put this franchise in a bad place moving forward or you know i heard him talking about assets and so on and so forth and i and i can dig that um except ultimately you know the weird

thing is you're not their partner. No. You're not. It's a very weird dynamic because you know, because you've been there so long and you've played at such a high level and you've taken this franchise to heights it's never seen before, you feel like a partner, but like you are not economically vested as a partner with them. Like you are not financially in bed with them like that and not on that level. So, you know, like taking care of what you have left as a.

career and what they look like as a franchise after your career have to have to remain separate. Like that cannot be Steph Curry's concern. And I appreciate how good of a dude he is and the camp that he comes from and everything they stand for. I would just caution people to be careful with that. Now, he might ultimately be right. There might not be anything that they can do right now that makes sense for them. But I'm purely talking about the statements and the feelings that go into making those

statements, not their partner like that. I agree. Unless a mofo got a deal to be a part owner as soon as he retires and we don't know about that. Yeah. I agree with you on all those counts. I feel like Steph has been way too nice during this process. I feel like the front office post Bob Myers has done a great disservice to him.

I think that I don't care what anyone says in the building right. now. I don't think Mike Dunleavy has done a good job as a general manager right now. Honestly, you have what his signature moves were trading Jordan Poole for Chris Paul and then getting nothing for it. That's his signature move right now. If you want to just put it right, they haven't drafted well. They keep holding on to comminga because the ownership, Joe Lacob loves him. But like the coaching staff, it's very clear he is not a number two guy behind Steph Curry. I know my OG Montypool wrote about this earlier in the week just about I think that the Warriors and I agree with him on this.

The Warriors front office very much overinflates its Young Corps. They're not as good as they think they are. They're not going to get a return. Like I think Steve said this. Steve Kerr said this the other day. Just I'm picking up afterwards if that's not the exact quote. You can cut that out. Leave it in.

Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Anyways, the point being is they're over here trying to straddle two eras. And guess what? When Steph leaves, you're not going to be good. You're not even good. Like, it's not going to, it's going to be go back to the 90s of the 2000s.

There ain't going to be no, this is a generational talent, a top 10 player who doesn't grow on trees. So especially for what a organization that hasn't been as relevant as, say, like, a Lakers in the Boston Celtics over the last decades, right? They're not, the shit isn't promised. Win, when, while you can. Fuck those assets. You can go get assets when it's ready. We've seen this time and time again, but this front office has dropped the ball ever since Bob Byers is left. Mike Dunleavy has not done a good job either drafting play.

I mean, you could say Brandon Posimsy, but what is he doing this year? Nothing, right? You could talk about all these people that they've drafted, Kaminga and Moody. Those aren't, those aren't the guys that are going to, that are going to take the baton from them. you had your chance to trade your assets, but what you did was you kept Draymond green there. You didn't trade away Clay when you could have. You didn't trade away Draymond when you could have to actually get those assets, right?

And that's fine, right? But also the other thing that messes me up, Raj, and I know I'm ranting here. Maybe this was just a, this was just a segment for me to rant. Do your thing, bro. But my thing is this, though, you couldn't build a team around Steph. Then you tried to say, oh, we're going to keep the band together. You couldn't even do that right.

You couldn't even make Clay Thompson want to stay. Like, yeah. Like, what are you doing? What are we doing here, Roger? Like, this is, this is just, this is just comical. It's comical how this is going down. I feel, I mean, hearing you rant, I, I feel for you in some way. I don't care.

Yeah, but, you know, it's a, it's always a tough thing, man. I know we've spoken about this before. I don't know how long it's been. I don't know what pot it was, but like, you, you, You know, nostalgia, especially when you have a dynastic team, it's a powerful thing, man. And holding on to that past expiration date rarely ends well. And I'm not judging because that's got to be a terribly hard thing to do, right? Like you've got faces of a generation of Golden State Warrior fans, like still there,

even though they're not able to produce in a way that's going to win championships and you can't move them. I mean, technically you could move them, but like nostalgia is a very powerful thing. And I think they just hung on a little too long. I think ultimately what Steph's going to have to ask himself or ask them is like, I talk about this all the time.

Hey, man, what's the plan? Show me the shit. Who is it? Give me the three names. and the three scenarios that get me those names. How are you going to do it? Like, help me help you, dude. I want to believe in you.

Show me how it's going to happen. And then if it's not, what's worth more to him at this point in his career? Being a lifelong warrior, the greatest to ever do it in the uniform type of joint? Like, do you want to be, you know, like king of the city forever? I imagine you probably earn the right to do that regardless. or do you want to say, hey, bro, like, there is no plan here.

You know, I would like some shots at another championship. And I don't have the answer to that. I don't, only Stefan and the family does, right? Like, because there's more to it now. Like, there's family. There's, you know, other moving parts. It might not just be as easy as that. But, you know, I think that's where he's probably going to be.

Like, look, I'd love for it to be here. But I need to know how we're, how you're going to get us from where we are currently to getting me the help that I'm going to need to chase championships at this stage in my career. What are the names? Show me the trade scenarios. Show me the ideas. Like, let me brainstorm it with you. Right. And in the absence of that, well, then what's the plan for me, man? Because I don't, I don't want to just live in this constant, you know, like mediocrity, like as my career winds down. Or maybe he, maybe he does. Maybe he's like, oh, I just want to be a Golden State Warrior, man, pour my heart into this every year. People will know I gave it everything I

had, even if we didn't have enough around me. And that's good by me. But like, I think it's the ladder. I haven't talked to him about this in a while. So, you know, maybe his mind has changed. But I think it's the latter. I think he wants to retire a Golden State Warrior. And but the competitiveness is, but like, I think that he knows in his heart that it wouldn't be the same if he want a title somewhere else for another city. Like it just wouldn't be the same. I don't know. Like, if he run it, if he just dip, like to, I'm just going to say Miami. I'm not saying like, I'm not, I'm just just throwing that out there. So like, you got truck somewhere.

Like, it wouldn't be the same as if you did it out here. He's earned the, he's, he's earned the right to do that. No one would question, like, him not winning another championship, like, doesn't, doesn't do anything to the legacy that is Steph Curry. Like, they're revolutionizing the game, doing, doing what he's done. So like, no one's judging him for that. And maybe if it were, this would be. my point would be better if this was a different type of player because I imagine you are right.

Like Steph strikes me as the dude like I said. Like I know his people like he's probably just, hey man, you know, I'm going to be here doing my damn thing and I'm going to trust the organization. Like old school, you know, maybe if it was a different kind of player with a different mentality, it would be a better point. But but that's where, you know, you'd be with most guys. If guys weren't as conscientious and like entrenched in this, in this, the vibe. of the city, the town, and the organization is, Steph, that's the point you would be coming to. You know, my man, you go give me this help or I'm going to get up out of here. Yeah, but he's not LeBron in that way, you know, he's just not.

Right. I don't believe that. So, we'll talk about this more as it goes on, but I just needed a rant real quick. I think that's all it was. You of all people know the feeling. That's why you have a show, bud. Yeah. That's why I got you as my dude, my buddy.

Speaking of rants, our guy who also was going through what Mr. Anthony Edwards said, quote, our starting five sucks. Goodness gracious. He said that, like he said it like that? He's talked about how his team as it started games well.

He says their benches out playing them, but they have the 18th ranked bench in the league, so it doesn't really matter. The team just is bad. I love when when aunt pops off just because it's like yeah I mean he's right

he's going to say the truth according to him every single time but this is the actual truth I don't know where we go is this a loss year from Minnesota

I feel like we've asked a variation of this question for the last three four years I mean three four episodes excuse me I just

um I mean let's see man they're an ugly team to watch I don't like watching them play basketball bro

I can't say it's lost though because again, what are you, six games back? What are you, like six games back of the two spot, something like that. Like I don't, I don't, and the two spot is held by Houston. You're five, you're four and a half behind Memphis. Like that is pretty cool. I just don't, it's hard for me to put them in the loss category at this point just because I see it as kind of being wide open a little bit out there.

Like maybe not for the for the ultimate, but like two through, two through whatever seems to be open for me. Does that make sense? Sure. And so like if you tell me you could get to the Western Conference finals, like I wouldn't pick you to win it. But at that point, a lot of stuff like anything could happen. So it's hard for me to say it's a wash for them.

It's clearly, you know, this wasn't the, this wasn't the, the trajectory that they wanted to be on as a franchise coming off of last year and the vibes and stuff like that. I don't, you know, so it's got to be a disappointing feeling right now, but I wouldn't say it's a lost season. it's a frustrating season for anyone that watches them no bro because it's literally it's triple team aunt we give the ball to to uh to uh julius randall and he's you know three steps in a cloud of dust and right or then you give it to like i watched the the end of the um the the timber wolves memphis game the other day and it was just like this is the game you should win but we have a we have

This is from Gobert. We have a throwaway from Gobert. And I just, I'm sad. Watching them just makes me sad. And that just isn't something that I'm used to. Watch the Determil Wolves and them make it be sad. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I don't know. Memphis is also. Memphis doesn't make me sad. I like watching them. They get up and go. They're gone. Yes, absolutely.

Okay. Let's, before we get to, before we get to ruin of the week. Any NFL picks. We got B. Waters on the call. He's going to be more. He's producing this show right now.

So I think he wants Baltimore to win. Who do you got winning this week? What's going on? What's going on? We're talking bets? Like, are we talking just all money-line shit? We're talking about... We're talking just straight up like...

Just wins. Just wins, brother. We think who wins? All right, all right, dog. All right, now, slow me down. C.J.'s going into Kansas City. I'm going into Kansas City. Jalen at Detroit, man, that's tough.

Yeah, I think the magic runs out. I'm going to take Detroit. Los Angeles and Philly is an interesting one, but I'm going to take Philly at home for no other reason than, like I really want to see this dude like I really want to see this dude out here dancing and shit. I really want to see Gilly the kid. Like he's, he's... That's your guy.

You've been like soft launching just your fandom. since I got back. No, like, yeah, it's just hilarious to me. The game of the weekend, I mean, the one, the one that I'm,

I'm locked in for is, is Baltimore and Buffalo. And I, I don't know. I want to say Baltimore. Do you want this, this podcast to be produced right? Choose wisely.

Yeah, I want to say Baltimore. I want to say Baltimore. Josh Allen's a dude, though. I'm obviously, I'm a huge Lamar fan. I think Derek Henry could be the difference in this game.

If they, if they, if they, if they game plan that right, man. So I'm going to take, I'm going to take Baltimore to go in there, get to win the Orchard Park.

All right. I'm taking, I'm going to take the Chiefs. Much as it pains me. Honestly, bro, I'm going to take the commanders. Who, you got,

I have locked in all jaded dog. I have locked in. Yeah, I think I'm going to go with the commanders. And another one, I'm going to go with the Rams. Yeah, that's a scam.

I don't know why I feel like that. I think the Eagles are a scam, bro. I think the Eagles are a scam. I think that's all go that far. But okay. All right, all right. And I'm going to go, I think I'm going to go with the Ravens just because of the Derek Henry. It's 18 degrees, this fucking football weather, bro.

Put the, put the team on his back. Put the team on Henry's back. He's done it before against the Ravens. But now he's for the Ravens. Yeah, I got the, I got the, I guess. You know what I'd like to see Monkin doing that game in? I'd like, I'd like to see him go with like just a college approach to that shit. Like, we're going to, we're going to run the shit out of Derek Henry.

You're fucking back. no, but we're also going to like, they haven't used Lamar. They're one of my favorite teams. Lamar, Lamar has made huge strides as a passer and in a passing game. And almost to a fault last year in the playoffs wanted to prove that he was a passer in a way. Like, I'd like to see them like just really keep Buffalo honest in terms of we don't know who's got this ball. Lamar or Derek Henry. And just keep them off balance with that and then get into your play action shit.

and work your passing game. But I'd like to see them really come out with a nice, fucking confusing run game. Pompano Beach, baby. Yeah. Bower County. You can tell them not a football coach. But in a perfect world, that's what I'd like to see.

All right. It's all good. All right. Let's get to a little segment we like to call Real One of the Week. This is actually going to be a segment, but I actually cheated because I didn't have a real one. Yeah. And I wanted to obviously take a real one from you anytime.

that I can to give you a space. But I'll go first. I'll go first. I mean, unless you want to go first. You have a real one of the week? I mean, I do. I have two. Oh, go ahead then. Well, I mean, only real in terms of like they're both, they're both so hard-headed and real

because they're not giving in on this shit. It's going to be Jimmy Butler and Pat Riley. Like, I think, you know what? Let's talk about it real quick. Let's talk about it real quick. I love that you said. Let's talk about that real quick. so Ramona, I got a thing real quick, just real quick, before we get to like the, the clash of the Titans with Jimmy and Pat.

There's a story that came on at ESPN and this morning, I think. And it annoys me because they, the heat of leaks that they've been giving Jimmy Brutler private jets and all these things. giving him like extra extra little benefits and all these things because he's a star. Bro, if you did it,

don't hold that against him. I just, I get the beef and all these things and I know this is just all like a thing in the press and did it back and forth. Bro, y'all agreed to it. Y'all let him do that. Y'all treated him better than Dwayne Wade

and then made him spoiled and then took it away out of nowhere. Like, don't use that against him. That's fair. Right? Like, you don't get mad at him for what shit that you did? Yeah,

that's corny. but still, still emboldening my real one like pick because Pat Riley didn't give a shit. Pat Riley is like, oh, no one's out petting this one. Like no one's, no one's trying to try though. Jimmy is going to try. That's why that's, and there's, there it is, right? What's your favorite? What's the favorite moment of Jimmy that, that's that, because you're the, you're one of the,

you're a petty motherfucker, right? You know, Virgo gang. For sure. You know what I'm saying? Petit is. Yeah. What is your favorite part about both of their petty? I don't know that I don't, that's tough question.

That's a lot. I don't know that I have like, because I don't have like the timeline written down of what Jimmy's done or what Pat's done. So I don't have a great answer for that. You know, the antics in Minnesota like are legendary. Like this isn't, this isn't a Miami thing.

But like what he did in that pickup game that has been documented by a lot of people like that is. that is crazy work. That's crazy. And that is like as petty as you get. I don't have a great answer for you. I don't know what my favorite Jimmy Miami moment is. Pat Riley doesn't win this though. Right.

Like no matter. But I think Jimmy's going to give him a fight, but there's no way that Jimmy's going to win this. There's just going to be some scars, but I don't think Jimmy wins this, bro. Because at the end of the day, like, he gets traded and won. Like he's not going to,

is he going to get paid again? Who's going to pay him? that's what he wants. Yeah, I don't know at this point. I really, I really don't. I mean, he's got 50. He got 50 in a bag next year. So,

worst case scenario, if he doesn't, like you just, you pick up the 50, I would imagine. He can't be, he can't turn down? He can't turn a 50 million now, can he?

I mean, I would say no for a sane individual. We're talking about Jimmy fucking Butler here. Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, I don't know. I don't know how this works out.

I just love them both for like their for that because I think he came off a suspension last night and I really like inactive like not not not not listed on the like nah I don't surprise me if you played another game with Miami heat no I love this have you any dealings with Pat Riley like like any negative whatsoever just just supposed for telling you to come home and then not paying you yeah I can but I have no beef like I mean I I I think they're great I've never really dealt with them in any way shape or form okay That Miami Heat Mafia shit is real though, right? From like every time that I, I mean, I saw him in Golden State like a couple of about a week ago.

And like you can feel the just there's Don's, you know, there's just, it's just from the PR staff on up. Like it's just, it's how I wish my Raiders were, to be honest with me. Just put it that way. You know? All right. That's about all we can get. Like we've talked acknowledging about Jimmy Bow. There's nothing new.

I just was just annoyed about the private jet thing. You give him something, it's corny to just be like, oh, he gave a private jet. He didn't appreciate it. Like, bro, you gave it to him. You knew it. The job was dangerous when you took it. That's right.

I want to give my rule on to Jamal Murray, who got called out by Shaquille O'Neal. And rightfully so, man, because Jamal Murray is a great player, but too many instances of him, like, not giving his full effort to, start the season then complaining why he's not an All-Star,

but I digress. But he got called out for that by Shaquille O'Neal and, you know, rightfully so, somebody, a player could be like, you know what, man, fuck you,

Shaq. Like, who are you? Even though, you know, like, it's a blasphemous thing to say, but players tend to say that. What Jamal Murray did? Drop 45 and was like, you know what?

Thanks, Shaq. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like, that's what we need in our lives. Not only do we need to have people in our lives that will, correct this like Raja tends to do,

unsolicited. But you need to be able to listen to the correction when it's valid. So, I'll challenge Jamal Murray for doing those things. There you go. Real one. Real one. All right. Well, this has been the Friday episode, Friday vibes episode of real ones. I know that because Raja is beginning his Friday vibes. He's not even paying attention to the pot anymore. He's writing shit. He's texting. That's why I'm going to make his ass do ads after this pot. So we'll see you guys on Tuesday. It will be me,

Raja, Howard, mother, Beck and, and Bumani? And Bumani? Well, Bumani, we pre-recorded that. So, all right.

Don't tell me said I. So, you know, um, anyways, we'll see you guys. You fucked up my, my indie.

We'll see you guys on Thursday. I'll always trash anyway. Mm. My. Hey.