The Ringer NBA Show - Tim Duncan on Kevin Garnett's Trash Talk, His Relationship With Gregg Popovich, and Much More | Real Ones

Episode Date: January 7, 2021

Five-time NBA champion with the San Antonio Spurs and Hall of Famer Tim Duncan joins Logan and Raja to talk about learning to play basketball in the Virgin Islands, adjusting to life on the mainland, what he likes and doesn’t like about the new style of play in the NBA, his relationship with Coach Pop, his most impactful teammates and biggest rivals, the move to Orlando that almost was, and much more. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Tim Duncan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yeah, what's popping real ones? Logan Murdoch here with the Roger Bell. I'm very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very very very, very very very very very very very very very very. I'm not going to go down the very, very, very very excited about this. We got Tim Durk in the pod. Tap in. Yo, what's good. Real ones.

This is Logan Murdoch. I'm here with Roger Bell. We have a really, really, really, really, really special guest. This is someone near and dear to Roger. So I'm going to throw it to you, Roger. Who we got on the pod today, man? Who we got on the pod? Listen, so when you say near and dear, like, you neglect to say that, like, my playoff

chances were thwarted by said individual multiple times. So, like, real talk, I don't know how near and dear, but no, listen, we are blessed enough to have Timie Duncan with us on the pod today. Tim, thank you for popping on. USVI native, possibly arguably, in my opinion, the greatest power forward ever played a game. Thanks for hopping on with us today, brother. Thanks for having, man. Appreciate you all.

No doubt. Hey, so look, I mean, we're going to, we pride ourselves, Tim. Like, one of our like catchphrases is let's get to the shits. So I figure, like, I'm going to come out and ask, 2007, do Boris and Amari Stademeyer deserve to be suspended? Jokes, bro. Jokes. Wow. Jokes.

Jokes, jokes. Straight jokes. I'm not going to joke. All right. But look, let me tell a little story before we get started. Like, I don't know that you know this. But for those of you listening, like, I, too grew up in the Virgin Islands. Not a lot of people know that because Timmy's from the Virgin Islands.

Everyone knows that. But I was a swimmer at an early age, too. There was a pool. It was called the Dolphin swim team. Timmy and his sister, Trisha, were huge swimmers. And so I left the island in 89, Tim, before Hugo hit. Right? Played a little basketball at Good Hope.

Played against St. Dunstins. Knew you from the swimming arena, but not necessarily basketball. So I'm sitting at my kitchen table in 92. I'm a 94 kid, and I'm reading Street and Smith. And Street and Smith is talking about like a seven-foot kid named Tim Duncan from the Virgin Islands, being the number one kid in the country. And I'm like, what in the hell? Like, I don't remember any seven-foot kid on the swim.

team that played basketball in the Virgin Islands named Tim Duncan. And so, like, you came out of nowhere for me who had moved away. I would like to ask you, because I'd never have, when the Hugo ruined the pool and you got into hoop, like, I know your brother-in-law was the mentor, dot, but did you pattern your game after anyone? Were there any influences on the island in terms of older players? Was there someone in the league that you were watching to kind of structure and model your game after? in control of the ball.

I want to be a point guard type. But obviously my game was in a model after that. Specifically, I was more of a post player. But honestly, I didn't even play in the post until I got to college where they asked me to go on the block and figure out what to do there. The first size for skill, whatever it may be.

When you left in, what, 89? I don't think I had just started playing. Obviously, before Hugo, and I started playing after Hugo. I really wasn't on the, on the court at all at that point. So, yeah, after Hugo, I started playing all my friends, all the guys from St. Nonsense.

And we just, we used to go all over the island, just trying to find courts to play and places to play. And it just kind of went from there. How did, how did, you know, like, when I moved to Miami, it became obvious to me at the time that, like, it was going to be hard for real talent to be. like kind of cultivated and found into Virgin Islands. Just I didn't know it at the time, but not everybody was going there on a recruiting trip. How did how did they find you in St. Croix?

Were you leaving the island to come to like five stars and ABCDs and stuff like that? No, I went to one basketball camp in my entire, my junior year, my brother-in-law that he spoke about Ricky that kind of taught me to play. He's from Ohio. So he grew up right down the shoot from Ohio State. So he took me into that basketball camp. That's the one basketball camp I went to. And I got a little buzz from there, played well there, did well there, still growing, probably 6-7, 6-8 at that point.

Played pretty well there. I go back home, and then just by chance, we have a touring team that comes through the islands. Alonzo Morning was on that team. A guy named Chris King, who played at Wake, was on that team. and Chris King went back to Wake Forest and told Coach Oro about me and then that saw that process. So I got maybe two or three

colleges looking at me from the Ohio State camp. I got Wake Forest looking at me from him being down there. And then I think I got one other from, I don't know if you remember Andy Herbert, but he used to play a big guy. Yeah, he, his alma mater recruited me well. So that's kind of how I got kind of got looked at at that point. When you when you go to Wake, right? Like you pick Wake, my my experience when I moved at 13 was

startling when I got to Miami and like culturally I was like, what is going on? What was that like for you? Like, you know, leaving home, but the culture change being like more different than any kid leaving their city going to another city. Yeah, it was it was, I was lucky in the fact that I went from an island to a small campus. Like I didn't go to an Ohio State when there's 30,000 kids or whatever. I went to a small campus, 2,500,000 students, close-knit family with the basketball team there. So I had kind of a built-in-a-family. So I wasn't as culture shock as it would say just like moving off the island and right into a big city.

So I was kind of blessed in that respect. and then being a part of the basketball family, obviously you got your schedule filled, man. You don't have time to go out and just go around and try to figure stuff out. You've got to schedule. You've got to go lift and work out and play basketball,

gets yourself to class. Wake Forest is no joke about the academic, so I had to stay on top of that. So I had a busy enough schedule that I wasn't as distracted as you would say coming from an, on island to kind of a different place.

Yeah, Tim, did you, was it immediate success? Like, you got forgive me because back then I wasn't as tuned in.

Was it, was it, was it, was it, was it, was Tim Duncan was was Tim Duncan? Did it take you a little bit of time?

If it took you time, like, when did you realize, like, yo, this is what I'm built, this is what I'm built for. Like,

I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. Like, you know what I mean? Um, it took some time. Yeah, I was supposed to be restured in my freshman year.

I had, We had a pretty decent recruiting class. Maxar Injai, Ricky Peral, these are guys that were kind of established a very good recruiting class. They all of a sudden were ineligible to play. And I'm the redshirt that was like, hey, this guy's no redshirt for a year, let him grow, let them figure it out, and then we'll throw them in the system.

I got throwing in the system from the go. Had a bunch of great seniors ran out of children, Mark Lucas, Trelawneyo. Had a lot of really good seniors at us. So I just was kind of a throw in. I wasn't expected to do much. I wasn't expected to contribute much, just kind of to be a part of the team.

And I did exactly that in my freshman year, although I think I ended up at me in a double-double-as some part on my freshman year. I was just playing. We didn't know I was doing, we didn't know what I was going to contribute on a nightly basis, but just kind of out-thill plan on. And I figured I was going to probably do it.

I don't think it really hit me until probably after or during my junior year when they started to be a little bit of buzz, which I really didn't believe. People started like, man, people are talking about you being a lottery pick. I was like, no. Yeah, maybe after my senior year, maybe, but like, not right now. We got to my sophomore year into my junior year. And then at the end of my junior year, actually, in my mind,

I was a four-year college player. Like, I was going to be there. But my coach had to sit me down in his office and be like, hey, there's a letter in front of you. Either you're going to commit to the draft or you're going to be back here for another year. In my mind, I was like this, it was like a no-brainer. Like, I'm coming back to school.

Like, I still have growing to do. I want to get my degree. I want to finish out here. We got a good squad. All that stuff. So that was kind of my mindset. I wasn't even thinking about going on something at that point. From a basketball standpoint, Tim, you said that one of your, you know,

basketball idols was Magic Johnson. And, you know, it was interesting for you to say that you idolized a guard, you know, growing up in San Croix, St. Croix. And how was that, how did that influence your game? Because you are a seven foot big man, but you are, you have those shooting skills. You have those dribbling skills. How much did Magic's game kind of influence that? And why do you think that you were able to venture towards him as opposed to, like, you know, maybe a Kareem or a traditional big. man why did you venture towards magic um well i think for a number of reasons one he's he's he's

fun and exciting to watch at that time it wasn't like the NBA we watch now where we can uh you can watch 10 games a night no matter where you are like we we didn't we didn't get many games down there right like there wasn't a whole lot to watch right no you got you got marquee games and obviously imagine at the time the lakers at the time where where the marquee games you got and got weekly. I was never a Bulls fan. I was never a Jordan fan that just didn't vibe with me.

So Magic was the guy that kind of got a lean towards. And it helped me a bunch, honestly. And I was able to develop dribbling and passing and that kind of mind process instead of just being a back-to-the-basket big or watching or seeing how they played that way. Obviously, that wasn't really how I wanted to play. I had more fun being out on the floor and passing the ball and pushing up the floor and playing like that.

That's interesting. Did you want to be a point guard, though? Did you want to be a point guard at first? Because I'm just tall. I'm just going to be a center or forward. I've always wanted to be a point guard. So then you, I mean, my next question would organically be. The game has changed so much, Tim, just since, you know, you and I kind of shut it down where.

phrasing you know yeah right these guys are true point forwards in some instances now and power forwards no longer occupied at that post or even mid post area it's pick and pop or front of the rim how does tim duncan um as the grizzled vet old curmudgeon like myself feel about the way the game has evolved wow that's a that's that's more of the that's a deep question because there's a lot of things that i i like and enjoy about it and there's a lot of things i hate about I hate the way the game's being officiated at times, how they've underpowered the effect of a post player. So you're allowed to beat the crap out of a post player.

You're allowed to take him off his spot. You're allowed to hit and bump them while they're shooting. But if you turn in face and go out to the three-point line and you shoot the ball and fall down, all of a sudden, the whistle is bones. They're protecting your shooters away from the... the bat. So overpowers primitive players that are away from

the basket and it underpowers post players who use their bodies and their physicality around the basket. So it's a weird dynamic. I think it kind of goes up and down as the game changes.

You know, the NBA wants more scoring. They want to see the 100 or 30, 140 point games. They don't want to, they don't want to battle the 90s and 80 and 90 point battles that we used to have back in the day. They won a high pace. So they're good and bad,

and honestly, it's annoying at times, but I see the way it's going. You just have to adjust and grow. How did you adjust to that in the back half of your career? Because you were in, you know, the last two years is when the pace and space was starting. How did you adjust

your game to that where there isn't as much emphasis on post-play? It's more for the step and the splash. brothers and things like that. How did you adjust your game to the new evolution? Honestly, it got adjusted for me. As

we moved along, our offense changed. I wasn't the center of the team and the fact that we're going to come out to the ball in 20 times a game and play off the post. We did through motion, we did it through body movement we did through passing. Obviously

we were shooting the three, I think, a bit more even early on than and people were, but it's just in a different respect, just through ball movement, not just straight up three-point shooting. So the game adjusted for me, and I just had to find my place. I wasn't, I wasn't a 20-25-point scorer anymore. I was, I was just, I became more of a cog than actually the one carrying the team.

So a lot of more pick and rolls. Again, a lot of ball movement. And a lot of that kind of fell into kind of how I like to play anyway. I like to move the ball. I like to find people. I like to figure out in defenses and how they're trying to attack you and exploit them. Tim, like, so when I think about those spurs teams you played on, right? Like, I don't know if it happens to you, but it happens to me.

Like, I think about two different sets of guys, right? Like that early group you were with with General and Sean Elliott and David Robinson, you know, that group. And then for some reason it gets. blurred in the middle and then it's you and Manu and Tony Parker and so I guess my question is do you like do you see see yourself with one group more than the other like when you identify as a spur is there one group that you identify with more than the other um I think I spent more time with Tony and Manu so so I think I'm linked with them uh in in my more recent memory um as part of that

crew, but honestly, I learned so much and I grew into the player that I was because of the Avery Johnsons and the Vainville Negros and Sean Alleyts and the Dave Romisons and the Monty Williams and those guys. I grew into myself because of those guys. So it's hard to say one group or another. We were different. Early on, and again, we talked about the 80-90-point games where those early teams where we weren't high scores, but we would lock people down. We'd stay in front of people. We had great shot blocking in the back. We had great size

and we just grinded it out as the game changed and we have Tony and Manu and Kauai and myself and Boris D. We had all these kind of players that can play so many different positions

and are so selfish with the ball. We just kind of changed with the times. Well, it was something interesting that Raj said and that you were saying about your adjustment to America or the mainland of America and, you know, how, and Roger talks about his adjustment to Florida a lot. Do you think that, you know, I know in the 97 draft, I think the, I think the odds were, you know, Boston was going to get, could get the first pick and Philly was also in those odds. Do you, how much, how important was it, do you think that San Antonio got that number one picked and picked? you for your development, not only in the league, but in America. And how do you think that would have been different if you would have went to a Boston

or a Philly back then, as how young you were? Well, I remember the draft order. I remember sitting in my buddy's house watching it all go down. And since the draft order came out when the draft actually happened, the assumption was that was going to Boston. in my head, I was going to Boston. I just kind of knew it. And as the picks work out, and I think they get the eighth pick,

because they have the two of the top ten, they get have the eighth pick, and then it comes down to the last three where it's Boston, Philly, and San Antonio. And then Boston goes third. And I remember getting up from my couch and standing on the table, watching the TV, like, holy crap, I'm not going to Boston.

in my head that's where I was going that just percentage chances I'm not going to Boston and I'm standing on the table in the middle of the living room and then Philly comes up number two I'm like holy crap I get to go play with David Robinson

are you kidding me this is awesome so as for development I don't know I don't know how it would have worked out I don't know what would have happened but obviously it worked out pretty perfect for me ending where I did, being with Coach Pop and being with all those vets and learning from David. I think Petino at the time was the Boston coach.

Obviously, they were running a much different system there. So who knows? Who knows? I think I was absolutely blessed to land where I landed and it worked out the best for me. I think one of the biggest things that I, just in researching this for this podcast, is just how poised you were at such a young age, especially in the finals where that finals run in 99, where you're going through a shack,

you're going through a young KG, and then you go into playing against the Knicks. Do you think just being in San Antonio, how did that help you? And also, how did being in college for four years help you through that process? Because I have never seen a second year player

be that poised on that big of a stage. I mean, Roger, you could back me up on that, but I have never seen anybody in a finals game like that. It's a great question, though, because, Tim, we talk about it. They ask all the time. And I, you know, these young kids that come out, like, look, if you can make your money, I say make your money. I'm not here to count anyone's money.

But they're usually not prepared to help a team right away because they haven't been seasoned and been through it. So I think it's a great question, Logan. Yeah. And two ACC championships, ACC tournaments, NCAA tournaments, four NCAA, tournaments, all great preparation, played in the great league in college, a lot of talent can go through

the guys that played against in the ACC that I played against throughout my career in the league, the stack houses and the Rashid Wallace's and the Joe Smith. We had some talent in the ECC and I was able to, and with my lack of experience, and Roy, you can attest to this, like my lack of experience

with high level talent in the islands, I needed that time. I needed that time. I needed that experience. I needed that competition level to be prepared for the early parts of it. Yeah, I agree with you at the point where I'm not against anybody going to making their money. Good for them. If you got the talent to do it and it's the time to do it,

and it's either you make your money now or you risk hurting yourself or your chances. Yeah, I understand that. But yeah, the kids aren't ready. when they come out, you see them their second, third year in the league, and then you see a whole different player. I was like, yeah, they're a whole different player because they would have been a senior in college at this point. They'd have been a leader of their squad. They'd have been asked to lead a team. Now they're ready.

Obviously, there's always people who do it differently who come out of first or second year of college and they're ready to go. They're always those people. But for the most part, what you see are guys that are underdeveloped and have a lot of growing to do. And sometimes they have people who are patient enough with them that will hold on for them long enough and develop them, give them the chance. I think the Spurs do an amazing job with developing guys and using the G League to go back and forth and give them that experience of the court and help them do that. And then when they're ready, they're ready. but sometimes franchises don't have that time

to invest into individuals and then all of a sudden they go to the wayside for me that was that was the right route for me because I needed that time in development I needed that that experience I needed that competition that level competition I needed to know how to be counted on

as a leader in big games and on and off the court so I had all that experience And then I also walk into a situation where I don't need to be a leader. I just need to play and play well. You've heard Avery. Avery's got out. Avery's got a loud less voice for everyone.

Wait, what was it like going through that gauntlet in 99? No, you're going against a young KG, then you go up against a Shaquille O'Neal, who's Prime Shack, not the peak yet, but Prime Shack. And you are what, 23, 24 years old? Are you nervous before these games, these matchups? How are you feeling before as so young of a player going against these legends? You know, I was always just very competitive. So I never really shied away from those games.

Like I really embrace and love those games. I love the competition. I respected those guys and knew what they brought to that table. But I just wanted to one up them. I just always did. And so bringing that kind of fire and a level of competition to the floor. I wasn't worried or afraid or scared. I was just trying to do my best to help my squad and try to beat him as much as possible.

Tim, so I got a chance to go to training camp with you guys. I don't know. It was 2000, 2001. Antonio Daniels takes me out. I get signed. It takes me to buy a Lexus, like on the spot. We copped Alexis. I promptly get cut.

I'm like, why the hell do I have this Lexis? I've just been cut. But no, I wanted to ask because, like, Logan touched on you being in San Antonio and what that was, you know, for your game. But you talked about, like, David at Robinson and what he meant to you. Give me another name or even touch on, like, David

and maybe even pop on what they meant to, like, building Tim the professional, right? Because, like, we talk about how great you were on the court, right? but like, you know, equally as great off the court and the consummate professional. So like I like to talk about my vets, you know, the Aaron McKees, the guys you wouldn't necessarily think about that really help mold you. Like, give me a guy that I wouldn't think about that was really, you know, in your ear trying to help you become the pro like that you ultimately became.

I'll go, that's easy. Monty Williams. Monty was a second or third year guy when I was there. So he was a young guy coming off a very good season of his own. but I had him, I had Corey Alexander. Those are my young guys. Antonio Daniels was there early on. Malik Rose was there early on.

League Rose. So I had all these guys that were just good dudes, hardworking. Wanted to show up in the summer and find somewhere to work out and find somewhere to get better. Obviously, Dave and Avery and Vinian, those guys were kind of rolling. models in respect of how to how to affect the community, how to help the community, how to be a part of it, how to be a leader and be someone that a franchise can want to put out front as their guy. Obviously, great example for that. But to answer your question, guys like Moni Williams, we're great friends now.

I talk to them all the time now. Like so many assaults I still talk to. But at the time, he's a young player there, the incoming first pick, but still kind of takes me under his wing and he brings me to the house and his wife cooks dinner for me and we're hanging out on the road. And just a good example of a human being just to learn from at that point in my career. Much is made of your partnership with the Spurs. But a lot is made about your partnership with Coach Pop. And I wouldn't say it's unusual between a player and a coach because they're supposed to have a good relationship.

But Shue and Pop's relationship from a star player and a coach seems to be the model that we all try to see in stars and coaches. What allows you guys to trust each other so fast to hold each other accountable? Or him hold you accountable because the line is always, I think Stephen Jackson said, who was someone you guys both love. Stephen Jackson always says, man,

I can't be messing. I can't be fucking up because Pop is holding Tim accountable just as much as he's holding me accountable. What made you trust Pop enough to be able to have that type of relationship? I think my dad, my dad gave him permission to take my ass with me to. So he met my dad early on, obviously, and before I was drafted.

And my dad kind of told him, like, just you got to keep him in line. Don't let his head get inflated. Don't let him get outside of himself. You stay on him. Just expect the best of him. So he got permission for my dad early on to kind of keep me in line. he's someone that's easy to respect because he's straightforward with you

he'll get on you he'll love on you he'll keep the environment fun to be in but you know when it's work time you know when you're able to joke around and relax so just a good dynamic

a good dynamic to have some people take themselves a little too seriously some people take what is an NBA season that's very long at rise you know it's 82 games 70 something this year but 82 games usually and it's a large chunk of a year that's a long time

it's a grind people have stuff that they're dealing with on the floor they have an ups and thousands of games trying to be a pro and whatever explanations are and they go home and deal with families and the players are juggling all these things and sometimes people don't understand that.

People understand what's all the extras you have to deal with. And he does good about, he's one of the best at it at understanding that and helping you juggle it and keeping you accountable at the same time not wearing you out. That's really interesting. Like he, to that point, like I, you know, I referenced the time I tried to make the team. Like, Pop, cut me. And he was the only person that cut me that I, when I left that office, like, I felt like, okay like because everything was laid on the table it wasn't a disappointment thing it was just a matter

of fact kind of evaluation of where you were and i thought he was kind of spot on i wasn't ready to make that team but i always you know appreciated the person he was i want to ask you tim because like later let's let's stop there for a second let's you know a fun fact about roger bell yes let's get a fun fact about roger bell let's do it yes roger bell this day is still uh the standard Roger Bell to this day is still talked about by Pop when there are guys that they're coming down to a last cut on the team where he'll say, I just don't want to make a mistake like Roger Bell. Like I don't want to, I don't want to cut a guy like right on the verge of being a integral part of our team. We keep Rajah at that point and he's a big part of our team for a lot of years. And it's just, it's like, it's like right there.

I'm like, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to make that mistake. Damn. He takes it, he takes it very seriously. And obviously he, he thinks about, it's, it's his team. That's another thing about him. Like, he does, he does the cuts. Like, I don't know how it works everywhere else, but he'll, he cuts the people that he cuts. He sits in front of him.

He tells him, hey, this is the reason why, and this is the stuff. and this is why and I hope that we have another chance with you or whatever you need to hear that don't need to hear whatever you need to be the reason is that you're not making the team with that problem

so I always respected that what he does with the guys against him because it's not an easy job I know what I love pop I know Rodas out here tearing up he's out here tearing up a good dude all the way around

All the way around good dude, me. Hey, wait, real quick. Because Logan's got some real serious shit to ask, and I don't want to ask any serious shit right now. Who drinks more wine? Boris Diao or Greg Popovich? Wow, that's really close. That is a really close one.

Boris will get it done. But I'll get popped the edge. Not because he drinks more, just because he knows so much about it. It is mind-blowing how much. how much he knows about him. I got to spend a year on the coaching side with him last year.

And a big part of the coaching side is dinners with the coaching staff. And to hear him, like, the coaches have a really good time. Whenever he brings a wine or something to the table, he'll put it down and

the guys will have some of it. And then they'll ask him questions about it. And he'll delve into where it comes from the year and the grape and the, And so I don't know who drinks for. I know Pop is, knows way more about it. Right, right. That's great.

Boris, by the way, I don't know. Like, I saw him, I don't know if you know, if you stay in good contact with him. But he shows up in Miami last year, like out of the blue. I see him on South Beach. I'm with my son's basketball team. And I'm like, yo, boo, what are you doing these days, man? He's like, well, I'm on my boat. I'm in St. Martin.

And then I'm in South Pacific. Like, he was, like, traveling the globe on a boat on a catamaran. Dude, listen, I am home. I'm in St. Croix. I'm at my, I have a place there. I'm at my place. And I'm checking my phone. Hey, what's up, Tim? I'm in the Virgin Islands. I'm in the, I'm in the BVI on my boat. Oh, cool. That's awesome, man. I'm, I'm in St. Croix for a week. He's like, all right, I'll be there in two days. He was like, what? Okay. That's great. With the Marling. Yeah.

He docks like four or five miles from my place and go out and hang out of his boat for a day and check him out. And he's a dive master. He's a dive master. Bro. Like by far one of my favorite teammates of all time. Like he's just like real talk. He is just the dude. Boris Dio.

Oh, that's crazy. I remember last year it was covering the Warriors and I had to go to Salt Lake City, saw Boris, but more importantly, I went to Walters. And the first thing I see walking into the entrance is a picture of Pop. How is it for Pop to, with these organizing all these dinners for all these people? If you're a spur, you're a spur for life. He's taking the bill no matter what. What was your first experience with that?

And was it better as a player or as a coach? Well, it's better than as a coach because you're always there. As a player, you didn't always know where he was going to dinner. You may end up at the same restaurant sometimes, and then all of a sudden the bill comes and it's like, no, they've got your bill. And they're like, yes. That's awesome. What's the best meal he's paid for and the best wine he's paid for for you? I don't drink wine.

I know, I'm shocking. I don't drink wine. So I never, I've never, I'm not, I'm not a wine drinker. I'll, I'll have some rung, but I'm not, I'm not a wine drink in any way. So again, he doesn't waste it on me. It's like what he, what he likes to say. Like you have a good bottle of wine. And the weight will come around.

He's like, no, no, no, take his glass. Don't waste it on him. Let's see. The best meal. And we have some really good ones this year. And he really does his, research about restaurants and the different places. And he tries to keep it fresh for his coaching staff because a lot of his coaches have been

for a lot of years, which is what I worry about him this year with all the quarantining and not be able to go to restaurants. He's going to lose his mind. But he finds some great places all over the place, places that would never go to or no exist. And they're always great meals. So I don't even know where to point out like one good meal. I had some kind of rabbit something this past year that I would never have to order on a menu, but it was like their main dish.

It was absolutely amazing. And per his like suggestion. So like there are so many places I've been with them just in this past year that were just amazing. Tim, what was the coaching side like for you, man? Like I hopped into the like the front office side for a minute. but like it didn't it didn't really do it for me right like i didn't feel like i was hands-on like i had stuff you know what i mean so what was coaching like for you exactly that exactly that it was uh it took some adjustments um one i wasn't ready like i just didn't i didn't i i know

guys go through a couple years doing g league stuff and doing the coaching camps whatever it is i just kind of happened on to it where perfect storm coach messina leaves uh coach e-may leaves and he's got kind of an open spot he's kind of looking around. I'm in the gym every day anyway where the guy is kind of on the side. And he's there with a model and he's like, hey,

who's going to come true for this year? Just in the passing, kind of joking about it. Semai he wasn't joking, semi, semi, he was joking. And we both laughed it off like, no thank you. I'm not trying to get back into it. But after a couple months, I was just like,

it might be a cool experience. Just to experience and I know the team, I know the guys, the coaches. I know the situation. So I jump into it there, unprepared, admittedly enough. I kind of learn on the fly. Got some great video guys that kind of took care of me and helped me with all the video stuff and the breaking down tape and how you want to present it to the coaching staff when you have teams that you have to present. Great people learn from Becky

and Will Hardy and shipping. We have some great coach. We have some great coaches. there that are lifetime coaches who have done it and were gracious enough to help me alone. But as you said, it just didn't grab me. I got a chance to be a head coach for a game and a half. That was as close to the game as I felt, as close to actually affecting the game as I felt throughout the whole situation. But all in all, it just wasn't the same a tram on rush as it was as being a player. What was that one game like? Is it nerve wracking?

Because you don't really have control. Like you do, but you don't as much control as you have as a player. So is that like, oh my goodness, what's going on? I was actually more prepared for that one. The first one is against Portland. Pop goes on one of his ramps. He gets one T. And in the back of my head, I'm like, this guy, he's going to get kicked out.

and I'm going to have to be, I'm going to have to coach for the rest of this game. I was unprepared for that. Although it was my scouting reporters, my team, I kind of knew in that respect. I wasn't prepared and how to handle timeouts. I wasn't prepared in substitution patterns and all this other stuff. So that one was really nerve-wracking,

and then it came down to the end and we lost. But that was really nerve-wracking. For the other one, I was told in advance, a couple days in advance, and so I had some preparation times to think about it. sometimes to be ready for how to handle things a little better. So I was a little better prepared for that one. But in the same respect, we get down a bunch of early on,

and I've got no control over it. You can put people in there, but you can't make people play well or anything else. You just got to kind of go with the flow of what the players are doing and kind of feel what the players are doing. So again, not as much as control as a player, therefore not as pleasurable as being a player. But again, as close as you can get at that point.

Yeah, that's, I felt the same way about that front office. I mean, it was great experience, but it was just not fulfilling in that regard. Tim, I want to ask you, man, like, you played in some golden eras of basketball, bro. Like, and, you know, obviously our teams were coming up against those Spurs teams, So we developed a little distaste in the mouth, if you will, for the spurs. Politely. Let me ask you, though, who, like, who was it for you guys, man? Like, who was there a team that just was, like, given the opportunity, like, we'd like to beat them down?

Like, it was more than just, we want to win the game. Like, were there guys like that for you, bro? The Phoenix Sons with Roger Bell on the team. The Phoenix Sons with Roger Bell. Yeah. Yeah. At one point, it absolutely was. Yeah, it was early on.

It was Utah. Utah was a hump we had to get over. They were dominant early on, especially in my car, we had to get over that hump. Then it was the Lakers, and it was Phoenix. It was Dallas. So Dallas at Houston, obviously, right down the road were always big rivals and had good teams.

So it kind of flux throughout my career, but probably those. And then obviously the teams with any team KUG was on, It was always a big game. Let me, hey, listen, KG used to, like, he had more antics dog, Tim. I don't know. Like, maybe because you guys were about the same size, like, he didn't do that shit to you. I don't know.

But, like, he talked the most shit. And, like, I remember one time he hit me with, like, a bow, like, to see what I was going to do. Like, you know what I mean? Just trying to kind of, like, punk you a little bit. And so the next time I came down, I fired one right in his ribs. And he looked at me, like. He left me alone after that. But like, that's who he is, right?

Like, that's what he tried to do. Yeah, yeah, he's done that a lot. He'll test you really for who you are. Right. And depending on your response, yeah, you get a certain type of response from him later on. Yeah, exactly. Those individuals who came down and was fired back at some point, they'll usually left him alone, give him a little more leave.

he said that you he said that you it would frustrate him the most that he would talk all his shit but she would smile and say like good job and stuff like that would piss him off the most why would you never engage in trash talk tim uh with him because that's what he wanted okay that's what he wanted he wanted to get you outside of yourself he wanted to to to piss you off and kind of control the situation and i guess i recognize that that. Plus, it wasn't part of my game. Like, it would, it frustrates people more when you just keep coming and coming and coming. You just keep getting things done.

And no matter what they throw it to you or no matter what they do, it just, it doesn't affect you. And it kind of, it ends up affecting them much more than it does you. So that was my way, that was my, that was my, what I figured out to be most effective. And it fit with my game. Like, I didn't, I didn't have to trash shop. I didn't need a trash talk. I wasn't, I wasn't good at it. So, um,

I was just about to ask you if you were even good at doing it. Yeah. Yeah. So it was, my more thing is just like kind of poke there. Just kind of kind of poke him a little bit and, bro, piss them off a little bit. And then they react and poke him again. First of all, I talk no shit either because I'd have been like to do it to be like,

and you too. Like, I was just getting bad at that. Like I wasn't going to be any good at that. So I couldn't do that. But he, Timmy that I remembered his shit. We were, we were like, I was across.

from our bench in San Antonio, like swing, swing to the corner. Tim's on a late close out, right? So I'm like, this shit is cash. So I pull up, like, I'm stroking it. And I said something like, yeah, that shit's in the bucket. And it like rattled out. And this muffo like tap me and said, hey, Ra, don't count it before it goes in. It keeps going down the other way.

And I'm like, you mother. Oh. Oh. So, okay, so you, we did talk about who were your, your adversaries and things like that. who, when I was growing up, and I know you hate when people say, you know, these young kids, they always talk about you when they were growing up, the posters on the wall and shit. But when I was growing up, Tim, it was always the Lakers and the Spurs throughout my whole life. That was always the two teams that were going back through generations, right?

It was first you played them in 99, then you played them, you know, during their three-ped, and then you got the upper hand on them in 03. What was that rivalry like for you? Going up against Shaq and Kobe Throughout the late 90s And early 2000 It was amazing We got

We got to shut down the forum Our last game against them Beating them in 99 99 yeah Oh y'all beat you You'll beat them Shut it down with a win Okay, go

All right, all right Let them tell the story Rodger fan So like let's Let's clear it Wait we put that to bed with it W, Logan. The collective week. That was one of our, one of our, yeah, we loved doing that.

That was really a cool time to do that. And obviously they go out of their run. And there are three Pete there, and then we're able to kind of end that run, whatever, 04, whatever it is. But, yeah, there were always a huge rival, obviously, the incredibly talented, big personalities in Shack and Kobe, had some, huge losses to them, obviously the big ones that come to mind, like the 0.4 and things like that.

We had, we had, we had, we had, we had, what a great ups and downs against them. Some of my highest highs against the lowest lows. So, just a great rivalry over the years. What was up? I always asked this question with Raja because it's kind of a talking point, but what was it like for you

going up against Kobe? You know, how was that? Because it's such a, you guys are always linked, but it's such a clash in styles. just how you guys go about the game. But there was always a mutual respect that seemed like. What was it like going up against Kobe for as long as you did? Absolutely. Absolutely respect, obviously.

Respected his talent, his competitiveness, just an incredible competitor. We differed in styles drastically, obviously, not just conduct us playing styles, but the kind of way we competed, the way we pushed our teammates, and he was more gritty and in their face.

I was like, I'll just do it myself kind of deal. He had this skill and the ability to do that. I was just different in how I approached things, but always knew that you were going to have to bring your best, I mean, without a doubt. And those are the guys and the games that you always remember the most. Well, I always remember them because you didn't bring your best, you didn't bring your A game, they were going to bring it.

It didn't matter what kind of team he had. It was going to be a competitive night. It was going to be a night. If he didn't respect him, he was going to take it from him. Yeah, he was, I mean, look, his competitive drive, you are right. There are very few you, him. Like, that's great. You're talking about all-time greats with that type of laser focus,

and I'm here to, like, win no matter what at all costs. Tim, I want to ask you, like, I want to ask you about your family, bro, because I know you're a full-time dad like I am. But before I do that, I really want to confirm, or you can deny, like two things. One, when we played the spurs, was the game plan to let Steve and Amari just get buckets and try to chop everybody else like off?

Was the game plan to allow Amari to try to get 40 and you guys felt like you could beat us if you did that? It was to, I think it was more to limit the shooters because he turned into giving up the world. If you just try, if you tried to focus on Steve and Amari so much, you gave up the world

because they still got theirs. I still don't remember Amari missing, like ever. Like, either he was dunking it or he was shooting a wide open. I don't even remember Steve missing either. Like, incredible at that point. But if you focus so much

on them and try to take away all of their stuff, they were still going to get their stuff and all your shooters were going to get wide open shots everywhere. So we decided that, yeah we're gonna kind of try to do our best to limit uh steve and umari but we weren't just give up wide open shots to you guys and just and um so yeah kind of worked out damn you guys for that like real talk damn you um you you and the you in the mavericks though everyone else like i always

felt like that was you know it bared itself out like if you could stop me from getting 11 and and lb from getting 15 and eddie house from getting 12 like it was that was the support that they needed Secondly, I forget, it might have been the Goodwill Games or somewhere. You were playing for the U.S. And that one dreaded matchup came with the Virgin Islands, right? I didn't get to play that year. I was on a contract year. Did you have to tell the U.S. coaches, Popovich and Larry Brown,

that you were injured, or did they give you the night off when it was time to play to U.S.V. No, I just told them I didn't want to play. All right. Again, I didn't know it. It would make a huge difference. And I kind of wait back and forth of was it disrespectful not to play against the Virgin Islands or was it disrespectful to play against them? And it made it made more sense to me that if I wasn't going to play with them, I wasn't playing against them. No doubt.

So we always know you as the spur for life and you are because you've been there one you've been there your whole career. But in 03 after a title, Orlando, am I right to say this, Orlando seemed like a positive. possibility. Why didn't that happen for you? Why didn't that end up happening? And how close was it to happening? It was pretty close. It was absolutely in the ballpark. Why didn't it happen?

Coach Pop, David Robinson, talking to these guys and them kind of having the last word and understanding that I really enjoyed with what I had there. and maybe had a little more of control and certainty where I was, knowing that we've built teams, we were rebuilding teams, we were changing teams, and we were being competitive in a very competitive Western conference,

going to Orlando, new coach, whatever talent was going to be there. Again, hypothetically, it could have been as far along as Grant Hill-Tracist and Gradyo myself. or just granted myself but there were so many unknowns in that respect and then Doc was going to be the coach at that point. Just more known versus unknown is what it came down to. Just wing, my options wing, what I felt comfortable in doing. I think my comfort came with Orlando and Florida

is kind of getting closer to home and being closer to where I grew up. But when it came down to it, it was speaking with Coach Pop and David and so my teammates that were here that finalized that I want to stay here and be here. When you talk about the player empowerment movement now, right, you were one of the first ones. It wasn't as publicized because it was still in 03. It wasn't as like say a LeBron or that. But when you see guys like LeBron and even a former teammate like Kauai who left San Antonio, do you, How do you feel about that the players, you know, taking free agency more,

kind of more into their own hands now? And we're seeing less and less of guys like you, Cobb, and Dirk play out their whole careers. How do you feel about that shift in the league? Wow. I hate playing the middle of all these questions, but there's some good... That's good shit. Hey, listen, who in the locker room of, like, the Western Conference winds up being, like, a personality that is different than you would expect it to be? Like, you know what I mean?

Like, you don't know them that well. You guys are in a locker room together. And you're like, oh, shit. Like, I would have expected him to be a little different because I get it a lot when I'm on new teams. Like, hey, bud, I thought you were an asshole, but you're, you're an okay guy. You know what I mean? Like, not that it has to be that. But, like, is there anyone that, like, you met in a locker room, wasn't on your team, like, in one of those All-Star games and you?

You were like, hey, man, not the dude I thought he was. I remember having to take a car with Dirk to the game and having a conversation. Because we never really sat and conversed about anything. And obviously, our rivalries were kind of heated at that point. So we weren't really in any situation where we could sit down and just talking to him. Like, he exactly what you said. He was not the guy that I thought he was. It was cool to talk to him.

Kobe's, Kobe is the same way. KG's a lot like that too. Like when we're away from all the, all the hoopla and the hype back and forth, good dude to talk to. It's fun to be around. Nice enough guy. So I have to assume that a lot of people have that same to say about me. Like a lot of people think I'm an asshole.

That's cool. I'm just, I'm quiet and I'm competitive. I don't really give you a whole lot to judge me on. until we're in more a personal situation and we can kind of sit down and be ourselves with each other. So there are a lot of those guys around. Mari and Steve

got to spend some time again all-star locker rooms with those guys and talking to those guys. Again, didn't really spend time with them outside of that. So it was cool. It's always great to get to in a situation like that to kind of get to know guys because all we know are

competing and being ready and putting on that face and not worried about not just shaking hands but not being your friend at that point. I just don't want to do my best to win and compete and I don't give a shit about you

and getting to know you. Right. But the same thing with you. Like they like, yeah, so trust me. There are a couple people around this that's so bad you're an asshole. I know we talked about Kobe. What was it like when he passed for you?

Did it mess with you at all? Like how did that, how was that considering that you played against him for so long? And you know what I mean? It's just a realization of how short life is. Yeah, it hit me in a word away to not only how old he was and knowing him personally, but just knowing him having kids and them not getting to know him in that respect. And so, and obviously being a father myself, it just hit me in a weird way.

It just a kind of snap back to reality and just like my life's short. It can be taken from you in the snap up a finger and to just enjoy, enjoy the ride, enjoy the journey. I'm not really worried about all the destinations where you're. trying to get to at times, but kind of enjoy where you are. I don't want to get much. Let's get back to, let's get to a fun question.

I got a fun question for him, Roger. I got a fun question. What is the most fulfilling chip you have and what was the hardest chip you have? Good question. Wow, that's a tough one. I think the most fulfilling would be against Detroit.

Because we had to go to a, seventh game against them and that was probably the most nerve-wracking of it of the finals. It's game seven, whatever, we're down 15 at some point in the final game and

I don't want to say the fair is kicking me, but it's just like the realization that you've come this far and obviously we do it again against the human, we lose that one and that's also disappointing as well but to remember right now the game sudden is against Detroit

or it's against I'm facing Rashid and like Dice and Ben Wallace and just all these just big studs that are athletic and they're not going to give up there to keep cycling these guys through

and knowing we're down we're getting we're getting beat on there for a little while and then we just start making this run and it just ends in a very classic way from the other thing like that one really stands out to me. It was funny because I was thinking

Razi was going to pick the heat. I thought you were going to pick the 2014 Heat series because that was just, you know, all the stuff you guys went through 2013 and then to come back for a five guys. I thought that was the one. No, I understand. And I agree with you with some respect.

But I'm just, I can kind of more like physically feel like the, I can remember. how it felt going into that game, that game seven, where they were like, they were asking, I know a reporter was asking before the game was like,

like our, literally asked if you had any fear of this game, like if you were scared on this game. And I was like, yeah, this is, this is, this is,

this is, for all the marbles. This is going into this. This is for all the marbles. And it was, it was nerve-wracking. And obviously it was a lot of fun. And it did great.

So, probably the most remember in that respect. Obviously, coming back after a losing in the finals and winning the next year is the great end-full story. But I think early on, just having that experience is probably the one I'd point to. Tim, who do you, like aside from a spur or the spurs, like if you're going to tune in and watch a game,

like, is there a guy? Is there a team that you're like, yeah, I like to watch that, whether it's the player or the team? Um, not like right now? Yeah, right now. Um, I like watching, I like watching Denver. I like watching Yelpich. Yeah.

I like watching The Joker. He's, he's a lot of fun to, to watch. Um, his creativeness is, uh, his footwork, his passing. It's, it's a lot of fun to watch them. And obviously, the rest of the guys, they're, uh, they're able to really turn it up. And, um, that they're a very good team. It was fun to see Miami make a run the way they did with the team that they did with BAM and and just kind of some unknowns kind of putting a team together.

No super teamish kind of guys, but just kind of a bunch of hardworking individuals and kind of put a team and put a run together. That was fun to watch as well. Your son, your son watched, does he play Tim? Does he watch the games? Like mine don't either, bro. Like, I mean, my, mind, wait, does yours not play or not watch? Like, neither. He doesn't do either. He's starting to get interested.

So, so, like, it surprised me a couple weeks ago. He's like, hey, dad, I think I'm going to start working on basketball again. If you want to, you want to help me. I was like, kind of try to play it cool. Like, yeah, whatever. Yeah. And you're like, yes. You want to do that.

I mean, hey, man, whatever. How old is he? How old is he again? Oh, that's what's up. There's precedents set in the family, though, for starting late. So, like, you're good. Yeah. That's great, man.

Your daughter, does she hoop? Does she, what's she into? No, she's a volleyball player. Oh, that's what she's going to be pretty good. So I'm excited about what she's got in store. What is it like for you to, we're talking about who you like to watch. What does it like for you to? see comparisons to yourself, right?

Because there's, all throughout last season during the playoffs, we talked about on this pod, Anthony Davis was getting a lot of comparisons to you. And it's one thing to have people saying that they have, you know, posters of you and you, you know, you're like, what the hell? Like, what, okay? But to have someone like that get compared to you,

how do you feel about that, not just AD, but players in general get compared to someone like you? It's an honor. It's an honor. A lot of these guys, guys like AD, talented individuals. and crazy athletic. It's an honor to be kind of compared,

even parts of my game to be compared. Like, that's Tim Duncan-esque or whatever the reference can be. It's a lot of fun to hear that. It's a lot of fun to be compared to those guys or those guys to be compared to me. And I'm honored by it. It's great. Was Kauai your rook, Tim?

Was he yours or did you, did you got to, Oh, okay. Okay. We really didn't do that. You didn't. Terry Porter was my vet, like, when I came to camp with you guys. And, like, the only thing I really had to do was make sure he had a USA Today and a coffee. Like, it was my best milk experience. That seems very tame.

It was phenomenal. Like, it was right. Like, it wasn't really, like, the thing. We really didn't do that. Like, I didn't, like, I wasn't. And people said, like, here was the number one pick, blah, blah, blah, blah. No, I was a rookie. But I really didn't have, like, that was on a restaurant.

set like when I got there so we never we never kind of carried that along I think we make our our rookies get donuts like on game day that's about the extent of our

hazing yeah that's great so I think we are what would you say rous you got anything else man this is the legend you got anything else for the man before we get some real ones

I no I just again dog like Tim real talk appreciate you hopping on with us bro like it was it was good I had a lot of questions. We have real ones. We do have real ones.

But I just want to say because, like, look, Tim and I have crossed past a bunch, but we didn't really get this time to sit down and truly chop it either. So some of those questions early, like I really was interested in a lot of that stuff. Like I took some time to kind of find out. Appreciate you hopping on. If you want to do real ones, dog, we'd love to have you do real ones. What is Tim? Real ones is a person, a entity, a organization that you,

that align with your values over the last. and someone that you want to shout out for somebody that did somebody or an entity that did really well. I'll, and again, I try to stay out of this realm, but I'm going to go ahead and say the real ones for me right now

are the people of Georgia who went out and voted and looks like they're going to get two Democrats into the Senate, I believe, and have control the House and able to really make some change in what's happening here in the U.S. I think the many individuals that went out and pushed all these

and got people to register to vote and to vote and only have the voices heard. I think those are the realest people. Real ones. It's funny because, because, Raja, I'm going to do mine. It's very appropriate. Mine was going to be Stacey Abrams and the WMBA for getting the message out to get out two votes. There you go. For a lot of people that were disenfranchised throughout this process. So shout out to Stacey Abrams. Shout out to Georgia. Shout out to

the WMBA. Damn. But see, this is what sucks about going last with real ones, bro. Like, if you two do that, where is one to go now? I don't even know. All right, my shoutout. I got two shoutouts. All right, for real ones. One, Tim Duncan for hopping on with us on real ones. Like, I think that's appropriate. Many blessings, brother. Thank you. And Rashidi. Roshiti who held it down Pass along the messages Hey, Vivid streaming Rashidi I'm hopping on with him tomorrow morning

Good look baby Always love my two real ones Of the week, though Thanks for being on with us Tim Absolutely, bro, thank you for having me Thank you so much Tim Thanks for being on. You can check us out on Spotify

You can check us out wherever you get your podcast Make sure you tap in To the real ones, the mismatch, the group chat And all the rest of our pods On the NBA feed We will see you guys next week Thanks again to Tim for coming on, man. We'll see you guys.