The Ringer NBA Show - Timberwolves Send the Suns Home in a Sweep | Real Ones

Episode Date: April 29, 2024

Logan, Howard, and Raja are back to praise the Timberwolves advancing to the second round for the first time in 20 years (02:00). Then, they discuss the ramifications that are coming up for the Suns in reaction to getting swept in the first round (20:23). Later, producer Kerm joins to read your questions for Logan, Howard, and Raja (47:00). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Logan Murdock, Howard Beck, and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell, there. Howard Beck in the motherfucking cut. Man, guys, I have not been more excited. I haven't been this excited in a while to do a real ones. I think just watching Game 4 of the Suns, Timberwolves just put me in a bag. I can't wait to Pod. We're going to talk Anthony Edwards.

we're going to talk sons fallout. We're going to talk some Lakers post-mortem. Sorry, Kerm. But first was talked about Anthony Edwards, man. 40 points, nine rebounds, seven threes. He hoped him sentiments was symbolic. He chose violence. He had two T's with him.

He's ready to go. The first Timberwolves win, series win, since 2004. since Howard was 20 years old. It's, it's, it's, it's, it was a great display. Anthony Edwards is, I don't know if he is the, he is my favorite player in the league now. And I, and I'm just, he is taking the title. It was great. What a great performance.

But I do have questions. Roger, this was brought up in the TNT broadcast post game. Kenny Smith said it, and I want to get your take on it. Was this a coming of age of the Timberwolves, or was this a matter of the sons just being one of the weakest matchups that they could have taken on? What do you see from this win that the Timberwolves have had? What do you think of Anthony Edwards? What are your thoughts in the aftermath of this series? I mean, maybe a little of both. Anthony Edwards is fantastic. I don't think anybody can dispute that.

His star is on the ascent and very quickly. I do think it was that T. Wolves taking another step in terms of a franchise that is going to be looking to win something either this year or in the very near future, right? Because I think they have a shot. I must apologize. The Suns had success against them in the regular season, so I thought, that had a shot to carry over into the postseason. Clearly I was wrong. The Suns, that was just embarrassing.

So I think it's a little above. I'm not taking anything away from the T-Wolves and how physical they are and how long they are and how they can sit down and guard and some of the problems that they pose offensively with Kat and Anthony Edwards. but the sons were bad too. And so I think it's a little bit of both.

And as far as the T-Wolves go, you know, before I put my foot in my mouth and said that the sons were going to beat them, I mean, those damn predictions, Howard. Yeah, they'll fucking get you every time. But before I said that dumb shit, I had said that nobody was going to want to see the T-Wolves. And so, you know, I would get it

if people don't allow me to get back to that. And so I won't. but I would just remind people that I said it they're a problem they're a problem with cat with cat they're a problem without him I didn't think they'd have much of a fighting chance but with them they're a problem

and uniquely sorry to I don't mean to dominate this because I know everybody wants to talk but for if they were to see the nuggets in the next round have some interesting have some interesting matchups you know for the nuggets in ways that

other teams might not Howard, you know, one of the things that I saw, you know, last night that, and this is, this is elevating Rogers' point, one of the things that I saw from the Timberwolves last night, we always talk about the team, a team taking on the personality of its best player and also how hard it is to close out a sweep or just close out a series in general, which is really hard, no matter what. And one thing that I saw from the Timberwolves was they matched every run that the Phoenix Suns made down the stretch of that game.

Every single time that the Suns got within striking distance, they got it to within, maybe take a one point lead or get it to within a point or so. The Timberwolves always had an answer. A lot of that had to do with Amp, but I felt like the team kind of fed off of him, right? And that's something that I have seen from the Timberwolves pretty much all season. But when you talk about taking that next step, and that was the question that we had not only for the Timberwolves, but for the Thunder. Like if they can take this next step, the Thunder have done that, but specifically in regards to this series, the Timberwolves, I feel like they are answering every question thus far of that has been brought to them. And I think that, you know, they got their by all intents of purposes, they're, you know, probably going to get the Nuggets next series.

What do you, what questions were answered for you when it comes to this team and if they have the Nuggets in the next series? What are some of the things that you saw from this series that could make them successful going into the next series and maybe beyond? Well, the first question that was answered is, yeah, I guess now we know why Glenn Taylor's doing everything possible to hang on to this team. And not just pass it along to Alex Rodriguez and Mark Lorry. He's been there for a dude of maybe a lot of his own crappy decision making. But Glenn Taylor was there for 20 years of just desert. And now he wants to be there for the fun part. I get it. Still strange, but whatever. And that value is ballooning too, by the way. That bag is getting crazy. No small thing, right? The money part of it. But like he even said, like he told the athletic a couple weeks back, like he told John Krasinski like, you know, hey, we're good. I want to be. Like, he basically just laid it right out. And like, this is it. Like, you can see it. Everything is coming together. Anthony Edwards is leaping into superstardom, almost literally. Carl Anthony Towns. Massive credit to Carl Anthony Towns, right? A number one overall pick who, who,

was with another number one overall pick in Wiggins and that never worked out and Jimmy Butler came and went and Goberra arrived and he had to accommodate him and Anthony Edwards just like explodes into stardom and he's got to accommodate him and I mean this is how it should work right like Raj has already been nodding his head like this is how it should work in the NBA right no matter how great you are you need your teammates and sometimes you need an even better guy next to you and to your question Logan about what Anthony Edwards infuses in that team Carl Anthony Towns is incredibly talented, but you were never going to infuse a team with the kind of edge and just ferocity and whatever. Towns does, he's not that guy.

And Anthony Edwards is. And the thing I love about Anthony Edwards in terms of his overall makeup, and you could see this over the last couple of years, even as he was just kind of like making these, these, I don't even want to say incremental development stages. They were like everything felt like a leap. But like there was always two things going on on the personality side or just his. character. On the one head, he's absolutely a killer and all the greats are killers. They want to rip your heart out. That dunk last night was just absolutely just spectacular, spine tingling. They have that of power to inspire their teammates and raise everybody up and to have that edge. But at the same time, he's like playful. He's fun. He's not kind of like the maniac that Michael could

be or that Kobe could be at times. Like he seems like he's got a good balance there. And then Towns has just always seemed like kind of an easygoing dude. And I mean that in a good way, not in an indicting way as a star. But he needed an Anthony Edwards. So like this is a great pairing positionally, too, of course, and skill set and size and everything else. And they just, they've done a phenomenal job that front office in putting together all the other pieces. You know, Nikiel Alexander Walker is having this kind of coming out party in this postseason. And I want to give them all the credit in the world. But this is also, as these things, often are when you beat and especially sweep a team with as many stars as the Sons have,

it is both of Timberwolves achievement and a son's indictment. And you can't, you can't divest one from the other in these situations. And people get pissed off like they did last year when it was all about the Lakers losing instead of the Nuggets winning. And I get it. We will have a lot of time left to celebrate the Timberwolves. But a large part of this, too, is just a flat out indictment of the Sons, of what they've built, how they've built it, and where they're going to go from here.

So, you know, we'll, we'll obviously discuss both. I just, I want to make sure that we, you know, I want to make sure that we get, we're going to get to the Sons, but I do want to keep it on the Timberwells for, for a moment, because I want to ask Roger this, right? Like, and I know I keep bringing up Anthony Edwards, man, but like, yo, when I watched last night and I saw, I think it started after the dunk when, he dunked on, was it,

was it, did he catch Beal and then Durant got out of the way, right? I think that was the dunk. KD made a business decision on that. I had, which was wild

because KD can't be a rim protector at some points, but he was like, I don't want no parts of this shit. No, by, I don't want, no.

And I was, I was pumped. I watched, I listened to, to Dot on like that, like 78 times last night. I was ready to go. And then I,

so forgive me for the like that references, but they're going to keep coming this podcast episode because it's like that. And so to Raja, when you see Anthony Edwards, and I think there was another part of after the game when he's talking to, building on what Howard said, he was, it was talking to Chuck and all the guys. And they asked him about his thing with Kevin, with Kevin in the one-on-one. And he was like, yeah, man, like, I love Kevin. I got all of these, you know, I've loved since I was five years old, but fuck that, basically, right?

What is, what have you been seeing from the changing of the guard from these youngans, right? Because I think when you think of that Anthony Edwards' trajectory, he's starting to take on now, everything that we thought John Morant was going to be, right? Where we thought it was

and he's, did, Jai still has, he has a bunch of talent and has all, all of those things, and he still has time. But he has, everything that Jai has, the signature shoe has that, now he is having the wins and he's having the signature postseason wins. What have you seen from that changing of the guard at this point, right? From where we're at as a league?

Well, I mean, first of all, let me start by saying I will reiterate that he might be the most athletic person on the planet. I mean, he is, he is just a twitched-up, you know, super, freaky athlete. Like that first step, the dunk that you're talking about when he's got Brad Bill on the left wing and he tween twines, right? Like he like,

bopps. But Brad wasn't out of position when he went like when he, when he hit him with the bop like the tat tat, like Brad didn't really shift. That dude just said in my left hand, I'm just going to go. And when I go,

you can't be there. But you were not going to be there. Yeah. You know, I mean, and that's what he did. He went tween, tweed. Brad was still there. And he said, okay, fuck it. Here I go.

And he went. And then he re-ed up. It was like Kobe Jordan fucking, like it was like all the all-time greats in one dunk, right? Like, and everybody in the arena knew it was coming too, bro. It was nasty. Most people, when they make that move, if they do not shift you to the right, right? Like, he's making that move to try to shift you to the right. So it'll open up his left.

most people, if they can't shift you a little bit, you are at least in the play in a way that he can't take off like that. Does that make sense? He might still have you beat, but you're so close to his feet that he doesn't have a chance to really get up like that. That dude is just, I mean, athletically, you could put him on an NFL field with what those, what linebackers do and DBs do and, you know,

some of these big ass people running four fours, Like I will put him in a conversation. But Roger, when you talk about the athleticism, when we see this, and I think I can, and I want to, this is going back to the comparison with Ja, when I see the athleticism, it's also paired with great timing and shot making that we're seeing now, you know, down the stretch right now. Like, like, he's just, Anthony Edwards just take it. He'll take the three. He'll take the, it's just utter will that he is putting on it on the opponent right now. Yeah. Well, forgive me if I, forgive me if I made it sound like he didn't have any of.

of those things. No, no, no, no. I'm just adding to your point. Yeah, his skill is remarkable. His confidence in and moxie in the moments that, that, you know, a team needs him to have him in to take the step that we're talking about the T. Wolf's taking. That's been incredible to witness him continue to grow in that regard.

So like all of that's intact too. I just marvel at, you know, the athleticism part. Sorry, I get stuck on that. But in terms of the passing of the torch or the changing of the guard, I mean, we, human nature for the older guy is to hang on to that and to keep mind control as long as he can keep it. If you ain't going to take it, I'm going to keep it. And most of the time it takes a young player a year or two years. They think they want it.

But they're not really ready to kill the king. Like, they're not ready to do what it really. That's dirty work to put your to put your, to put your, uh, you know, favorite player in a bag and send him home. Like that pack him up like that. That's dirty work. There's a lot of emotion that goes into. That's your idol.

And so usually for the first year or two, whether they know it or not, there's a little bit of like reservation about that. It's in your subconscious somewhere. I feel like, like, remember when Iverson first got Jordan on the switch and he didn't give, he gave him one. But he, if you look at Iverson's all 96-97 highlight tape, he was fucking motherfuckers up with the, with the crossover, right? He gave Jordan the crossover, but that wasn't even in his top 100 crossovers of the season, right?

Like he gave him like a little like, okay, it was a little, I think that's what you're talking about. Yeah, he just said, it's time. I'm ready. I want it now. Like, it's mine. Whether there was, whether you guys knew it or not, and I might have last year, I didn't have a shit, but now you know, this shit is mine. And, you know, that's the cycle of life. Yeah, but there's also a difference, guys, between. Iverson crossing up Jordan or Anthony Edwards, you know, showing up KD in this series. There's a difference between those individual moments where it's like it's my time and watch me go versus actually winning, right? And it took Iverson a long time to win. And it was fleeting, right? One finals run, not much postseason success in the rest of Iverson's career.

I know we don't talk about that, whatever. In this case, in this case, Anthony Edwards is, it's all lining up. It's not just the individual moments of showing my dominance, my time, here we go. He's winning, too. He's leading. He's doing all of it. And the dude's a two-way force besides. Also, not for nothing. And it's, you know, it's small sample size. It's four playoff games. And the last couple of years, they've been won and out. So these are all small sample sizes. But, like, Anthony Edwards turns it on in the playoffs. And you can see it. Like, look at his numbers right now versus the regular season. And I know four games versus, however.

many he played. But still, he's, like, he's ready. He's here. Like, and it's, there's also just this other piece, too. And again, I'm going to bring it back to, like, the broad view here. Not to diminish at all, the fact that Anthony Edwards is, is seizing the moment and saying it's my time. And yeah, Duranda's starting to age out. But Devin Booker's still in his prime. And a lot of what we just saw was the triumph of team, not the triumph of individuals. This was not Anthony Edwards beating Kevin Durant as much as it was a really well-built and younger, deeper Timberwolves team versus a son's team that was slapped together without any thought whatsoever. Top heavy, no depth, no size, no point guard. And yeah, and Kevin Durant is going to be 36 in September.

But all that said, it's fair to say, too, if Kevin Durant at 35 now, we're still. as spry as dominant as he was at 27, 28, maybe he's enough of a singular force to turn this even without the supporting cast. But like in this league, it's especially at this time of year, man, like it's so much about whether you've got the right pieces around the stars. And the Timberwolves are just better built. Oh, much better, much better basketball team. Not even a question from like, but I still, I would still, you're correct.

I would still say within that team, like there is within that team, your star has to take the step for the team. You know what I'm saying? Like psychologically. If he doesn't, the team doesn't. Correct. Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. Let's finally get to the, first of all, condolences to Chris Finch. Geez. Guys, that's tough, man. Wow. He looked like he was a serious pain. Oh, my God. Fear of a torn Patella, geez.

That's, that's, that's, it's tough look. So just want to make sure that we just send, you know, all the road. The night that they get their first fucking playoff series win in 20 years. He just finished third in the coach of the year race, deservingly so. Man, what a, what a crappy way for that to go. But, you know, hopefully the surgery is quick and easy. Hopefully he's back on the sideline sometime in the second round. But yeah, best wishes to Chris Finch.

Done a great job, man, just to like be able to put this roster. Just there's something to be said, you know, putting the roster together, but coaching a roster to their strengths. And we're going to talk about the other side of that with the Phoenix Suns. But good on a Chris Finch. Hello, real ones. It's me, Joe Meat, back with another edition of Packwatch. And today, whoa, wait, wait, wait, hold on.

Is that the Phoenix Suns? Whoa, we're going to the desert? I don't believe this. The Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, Look, let's be fair to them. They bowed out that last game, right? They gave it the true college try. But we do have to talk about one guy in particular.

Bradley, no trade clause and a $54 million player option on his deal bill. Oh my goodness. Hey, look, he said he ain't never been swept a day in his life. Well, brother, get ready to learn vacation. It's nuts. Nine points. Nine points, six toneovers and six fouls in an elimination game? Oh my gosh.

Bro, that's prime Lebronto Kyle Lowry numbers, man. Okay? The people would rather have kill a cow corva over you. It's nuts. Where does this team go from here? Right. No picks. Just follow.

and stuff happening in the desert. I can't believe it. Tough seeing. You hate to see it. You really do. Thank you guys. See you next time. Let's talk about the Phoenix Suns aspect of this. Me and Howard talked about just the ramifications that are coming up for the sons. They're a version of salary cap hell because of one player, and that is Bradley Beale, who is taking up a massive salary slot and has a no trade clause.

It's going to be really hard to team build. You guys can't see Raj's face, but damn, the disgust that he just showed about his sons. But no, they're going to have to, they have a lot of questions to answer this season. And we're already, and I alluded to this, you know, a few weeks ago. But Katie is clearly not happy at this point, right? You know, he leaked through Shams that doesn't like standing in the corner. He's complaining about the offense. We're getting that.

We are obviously, Devin Booker can only lead them to a certain point. We've seen where he is at. Yeah, it's not good in the valley. My thing is, I think that they should tear it down to the studs. I think they need to trade Devin Booker, see what they could trade Kevin Durant for picks, see if they can even get a deal for Bradley Bill,

which will be tough for a guy that averaged 17 points a game, making $50 million a year. Get your money, but it's still hard to move your deal. Raja, are you of the mind right now with Matt Ishpia? Do they need to, should they retool or just rebuild at this point? He's in a really tough spot. I don't have a great answer. I would bet that he,

he tries to retool. Having just come in, having made the moves that he's made in the way that he's made them, I would think that he retools it. I don't, I don't know how the valley reacts to the fire sale at this point. I just, I don't know. And I'm spitballing as you asked me the question, if I'm a son's fan, I'm sitting there watching, And we made all these fantastic moves. This was a disaster.

I don't know that they're ready for a tear down. You know what I mean? Like not that any fan base ever is, but I don't know what type of faith that gets him there in the community. Having said that, if you told me he was going to tear it down, I would co-sign. I personally would co-sign. I'd say like, yeah, I hear you, man. Like, there's not a lot of moves here. Now, personally, again, I think you retool.

there was a glaring, glaring need. Let's go backwards. Those three skill sets, you're talking about KD, not being happy with what he's doing. Some of that is coaching and putting you in different, you know, situations on the floor to keep everybody happy. Some of that is just an organic overlap of skill sets when you put those three dudes together. We all need the ball to some degree.

You know, we all want to do these type of things. what alleviates some of that at times is a natural distributor and playmaker, someone who knows how to run a team at a high level. Asking Devin Booker to do that as much as he did, that's not the answer for trying to meld those skill sets to try to put them all together and have them work like an orchestra. You need a conductor. And so if you're going to retool it, start there. Like get somebody who can conduct.

I don't know what the bread looks like. I don't know the cap situation and all that. I'm sure it's going to be a cheap. Get an old one. I don't give a shit. Get someone who knows and works in that space really well to give that any sort of chance. And if that can't happen, then what I'm going to tell you again, if you told me you were going to tear it down to the studs and start again, I'd be like,

all right. A couple points to this. 2015 Chris Paul would have been perfect for this roster. You know? This would have been great. Amazing. Chris Paul, the guy that traded for Bradley Field? Yeah, that guy, that guy.

The tough thing, know what Chris Paul is, he just isn't a starting point guard at this moment. You know, like, it was just a catch 22 where, like, yeah, he would have been perfect for the roster, but what he would have lasted and been able to play the minutes that would have been required for the point guard that they would have needed, right? It's tough. It's just so interesting because, you know, I don't know what's, I don't know what's to come. I'm bringing this question to Howard. I have no idea what is going to come. But every time I keep thinking about it,

and I think Raj's answer to my last question really illustrates their need to tear it down to the studs, right? Like, even if there's a retooling that needs to happen, I don't see the point guard out there. I don't see the trade that can be made at this point. And then you're running up against, you know, KD, who is, you know, in the about to get. to the twilight of his career, wanting to go win a ring. And then you are, you're going against

Frank Vogel, who I don't know how much, I mean, he said he has the trust of ownership. You could take that with a grain of salt. And there's just so many things that are at play in terms of the negative aspect of trying to retool. When, Howard, when you think about, you think about, what's going forward, what is your take on what they should do in this these next few buds? Because I, like, I see, like, Kevin, I don't, like, he's already leaking a day later,

not even a day later, his frustrations, right? Like, it's, it doesn't seem like this is going to be something that, like, I wouldn't be surprised if Kevin is on a different team next year. And I don't think anyone on this call would be surprised. if that's the case, right? Or this team could look completely different. Like, what is your course of action? The report from the Athletic from, from Shams Sharone and Doug Holler,

had the sourced information about Durant unhappy with his role. That story published as soon as the game was over, which means that reporting was done for sure. Way, way, way before. So this wasn't like in the wake of. This was like, this was coming. And you heard those things like months before this was happening, right? Like, you heard, like, in league circles, you were, it was all these like, oh, Katie isn't happy.

Katie isn't happy. Did that team ever look happy? Did that team ever look happy or functional? So there's that. You know, you've got all this noise around. Oh, Frank Vogel is going to take the fall for this. The Durant stuff is not helping there. I don't know that any other coach was going to do any better, but it's interesting.

So you've got one star who, let's be clear, it's sourced. So Kevin Durant hasn't put this out there. but one star, Kevin Durant, is essentially pointing to the coach. Devin Booker, on the record last night, says, quote, roster-wise, everybody talks about the firepower, but you look around the league. It comes down to the details. I don't want to keep saying that, but it's a super important thing. You can't just go out there and think you're going to win off talent.

The game is more complicated than that. Holy shit. Devin Booker just completely indicted all the decision-making, whether it's Matt Isfian or the front office or whomever. That is an absolute indictment. And it's not even that shrouded of the way they put this team together. He's saying it's about the details. He's saying the firepower is not enough because Devin Booker's a really smart fucking player.

And he looks around and he sees the duplication and then the top heaviness and the lack of playmaking, a point guard size, all the other stuff that we've been diagnosing since last summer. Right. So that says a lot to me too. And look, before they got Chris Paul and then made that run to the finals, there were already murmurings around the league about like, is Devin Booker going to get Ansi and won out? Chris Paul changes everything. But, I mean, not for nothing. Devin Booker hasn't had any real success without a fully functioning Chris Paul.

And I just wonder, like, I don't, like, Logan, the question you puts Rajah was about, what do you do if you're Matt Ishfia and James Jones? I don't know that it's their decision. Like, I bumped my story this morning on Twitter. I bumped my story from February right after the trade deadline where I had some people around the league telling me like, you know, I had my crash and burn teams. Like, who's going to be available potentially this summer if teams crash and burn? Sons were really high on that list. And I had people tell me even then like, yeah, if they crash and burn, don't be surprised if Kevin Durant's out again. And so, and if Durant, I said this about the Nets before.

If the Nets weren't going to keep Kyrie, which they weren't, then Durant's not going to want to stick around. And now we have a different version of that. If Durant's going to want out, why is Devin Booker going to want to stick around? It's not a new, oh, it's okay. We still have two because we have Bradley Beal. No, Bradley Beal is not that. He's not that guy. So, and by the way, I'm just going to say it.

You guys know I'm not prone to hyperbole. I don't like absolutist, like, declarative statements about this league. And these guys have always- segment about his hatred of predictions last show, Rajah. It went over very well. But I know everybody, we, we, We deem untradable becomes tradable at some point. Like there's never any such thing as untradable.

I'm sorry. Bradley Beale at that contract right now, I think it's absolutely positively untradable unless, unless you are inducing somebody to take him off your hands with picks. And the sons don't exactly have a great supply of those to spare and they're going to need them. So like we went through this last week. I'll just say it again. Bradley Beale's contract is an absolute albatross. 50 million next season, 53 the year after that and 57 the year after that, and the no trade clause. If the no trade clause didn't exist, you'd still have an almost impossibility of trying to find a team that's going to take a guy who's in a diminished state who can't finish a season, who's not an all-star, but who's making superstar money at 50 million plus per season for the next three years.

Shout out to Bradley Beale. Real talk. By the way, Bradley Beal, like, nothing I guess Bradley Beal. No, this is not even

criticism of him. But the contract is the contract. And it's like if Bradley Beal we're making half that, sure, you could say, let's tear it down and trade all three of them.

But Beal is not movable at that number. Beal, buy some property in Scottsdale or Paradise Valley. You'll be there for a minute player. I just, I just, guys,

I just don't see it. I don't care how desperate a team is, especially with this CBA, with the second apron and all that comes with that and how tight the system now is because of all the new restrictions in this collective bargaining agreement, this is the worst possible time to have a guy at Beal's age with his injury history with that kind of contract. What that means you have to trade. Am I right, Roger? That means you have to trade K.D. and Devin Booker, you have to. If you want to get better. That means, well, you're not going to get better doing that. So that means that puts you basically. if you're saying hypothetically that that's what you're going to do,

then you're a bad team with Bradley Beal. Like, yeah. Now all what I'm saying. I think they're stuck with them. Yeah. And if you, well,

you're stuck with Bradley Beal, right? It's going to be like a situation where you have Bradley Bill on the roster, but you're having to build around him, right? Like where you're having to like not build around him, but you're just putting pieces there and just, just stashing pieces,

trying to get picks. It's like you're tanking, but you have this guy on here because you can't get them off the roster, but you have, assets involved and hope that he asks for a trade and say I'll just go here. I'll go wherever else and I can't take this anymore. Good luck if finding one of the other 29 teams is taking you. Who's taking that shit?

Fuck. Yeah, but that's why I mean, you know, it's part of the reason why I say like I, I, I, I, first of all, let me, let me just go back because Howard, you said something about KD asking to leave. Affectionately, I hope everyone knows how I feel about KD and the talent that KD is. If he should ask that again, then do you guys remember the mailbag question we got a few weeks ago where we all like scoffed at him being like the journeyman like whatever? You know, I'm putting, you're that now for me. It doesn't, it doesn't take, it doesn't take anything away from your brilliance as a player. But if you're going to ask out again, it just changes things for me, man.

Like I don't, I mean, at some point, if you are that dude, the situation doesn't have to be perfect for you to elevate it. do you know what I mean so like if every time it's not perfect you're like yo I'm out send me to where it is perfect like that's a thing for me right so I just want to say that and back to like where I was with the sons

you know for a lot of reasons like I don't I don't know what Ishpia's relative new ownership the experience is going to be like in the valley if he tears that shit down to the studs right now

and says hey guys, we're going to, we're going to be all these things in Bradley Beal for a while until we can get rid of that contract because you really ain't going to be able to do shit until that comes off the books in some real capacity. Like I don't know what kind of favor that buy. I don't know. It's going to go down as the worst, like worst, if not one of the worst trades in NBA history. It's not going to age well at all.

Or just combination of trades. The all-in trade for Durant and all the draft capital they gave up, plus McHale Bridges and Cam Johnson, plus taking on Bradley Beal months later. Like the combination of the two of those and the position to put them in in terms of being at a massive deficit. You know how Zeus the Wizards were to get off of that contract, bro? You know what the favor that they did for the Whitton? It's incredible. And they didn't see it that way.

And that was their mistake. By the way, just to Raj's point, because like I cringe you a little bit at the Journeyman label, but Journeyman can meet a couple different things in sports and in general. right? Like it usually means like role player, which is sounds like insulting, but it also means somebody who like is kind of moves around a little bit, right? Like literally the journey part of it. Kevin Durant since leaving Golden State, first season, he missed the season rehabbing from the Achilles. Second season. They beat Boston in the first round. Losing Milwaukee, of course, in seven games, toe on the line, all that stuff. But since then, swept by Boston the next year.

first year with the Sons, they beat the Clippers in the first round, lose to Denver 4, too, and now swept by Minnesota. Like, Durant's got no semblance of postseason success since leaving Golden State. And, like, as much as we'll say, like, Devin Booker, no success without Chris Paul, or Kyrie Irving, and he may change that narrative as we speak, Kyrie Irving, no success since leaving LeBron. Kevin Durant, like, amazing player. one of my favorite guys to watch over the last 10 years and just I love watching Kevin Durant, great dude, like nothing against him.

But like the facts are the facts. And to Raj's point, like, what is he done? And it's unfair in the sense that like the Achilles is a huge thing. And he has come back from that Achilles better than probably any basketball player in the history of Achilles ruptures. But we judge the legends in this game by their post seasons. and it just hasn't been there the last few years. And it's not like, unless you're LeBron at 39. In general, this league, it only goes one direction, right?

And especially after a surgery like that. Like, Durant's not going to suddenly become 28-year-old Kevin Durant again. I don't know how this changes. Question for the group really quickly, though. Question for the group really quickly. I have a good inkling that, like, Golden State is at least going to kick the tires on a Durant trade. Right. They're going to at least just see what's up. They're just, they're going to see what's happening.

You know, if you just read that he leaves over the last couple of years, Steph would love it. I'm sure, you know, I'm sure Kevin would be open to it. And if Steph wants it again, he'll definitely tell the front office, hey, let's get this happen. There's going to at least be the kicking of the tires. I know you say you like it, Howard. I'm sure Raj would fuck with it, too.

if that were to happen, how does that change how we view him if he has success? One more, if he has success that he comes back home one more time and figures it out and they get back to the mountain top. Roger shaking his head. What do you think, Ra? I would say it's a little different because the first time he's coming home. It'd be like he's coming home. Yeah. And the first time that he chose to join them, they were already on the top of the mountain.

They're not there right now. So if he were to go back and they were to get back to the top of. of the mountain. I could see it in a different light. But the optics of having to go back to Golden State to be able to achieve success for me are not there. That's a, that's an indictment, at least partially on his career. And I don't, I don't know that that's fair, but I'm just going to say again, I said if he asked to leave Phoenix, because I believe it's, it's, I believe that's important part of it. If they should move him, that's different. But if he asked to leave, there is a We talk about this all the time of stardom and work that has to be done that is not on court work.

On court work, there are other things that you have to be able to do as a star in this league, as a culture promoter and builder, as a winner, a leader that requires real work. If you're running from that at all costs or at the first or second sign of things not being good enough, I think that's an indictment on you. I just do. It doesn't mean I still can't call you a fantastic, offensive player and one of the most brilliant scores I've ever seen. But in terms of goat conversation or, you know, top, however many players you want to put him in in the league,

it does start to change the conversation for me. And I would just say, like, his, whatever his legacy is, like his resume is pretty complete, right? He's got a regular season MVP and two finals, MVP's and two champions, championships and scoring titles and all this other stuff. Like, I know the perception part of it, Rajah, like, you're right, of course, because we, fans, media, everybody, the public will talk about him in a certain way. And the things he does at this stage of his career matter, too.

Like, this is a really, really awful analogy, but bear with me, people don't remember about the dominance of Dwight Howard's first half of his career because of all the chaos of the second half of his career. And so all the defensive player of the year awards and a finals run and everything else, it starts to get diminished because of the way just memory works, right? And the back half matters. And Durant, he runs that risk, Rajah. You're right.

But at the same time, like, even if the sons choose to trade him, he doesn't ask out, they choose to trade him. But he happens to go to Golden State. Obviously, that's with his blessing, right? So it's still going to be put on him, even if he didn't ask out. Like, nobody gets traded in this league. No stars get traded without their cooperation. That's true.

But don't you? There's a huge difference, though, Howard, between you asking me and it being reported that I signed off on that versus saying, hey, I want out. This isn't working. I want out. And send me to place X, right? Yeah. There's a little. There are subtleties there.

I mean, but I would just say this, too, though. So I know people hate this particular version of the Warriors narrative. But, like, yeah, they were 73 and 9. They'd already won a championship. But they'd also lost. And getting Durant meant that they could. beat LeBron the next two years in a row in the finals, right? And it's questionable whether they would have won any more titles without him. Now, they won another one without him later,

2022. But at that time, they were in a tough spot. So if he goes back, Raja, and, you know, however that works, and with a rejuvenated step and Clay finding a different role at this stage of his career, Draymond's still being really good, and they've got some young guys, like, that would be a really interesting team. If they could make even a deep, run and certainly if they got back to the finals, rather than focus on again, because our memories are short, rather than focus on, oh, Durant left the gold state for the nets, and then he went to the Sons, and then he forces his way off the sons. We'll go like, you know what, for the second time in his career, he helped the Warriors get back to the promised land.

That could be the narrative, potentially. And if that happens, first of all, fascinating career arch. Captain Save a team. Right. Captain Save a team. Yeah. I mean, look, you're not, though. You're not. You're by definition, not Captain Save a Team. You're Captain Save a one team. Sure. Because you've been a lot of other places that ain't saved shit. But, but Roger, let's give best case scenario. He goes to the Warriors. They win another championship. Steph's fifth, Durant's third. I, I don't know. Like, I think that that would. I would love to see it, Howard. And I, look, I would agree with you. Like, and maybe I should have been a little bit more clear when I said like this time if it happened, it would be more impressive than the last time. And I was sitting

here telling you the last time it happened, I wasn't one of the people saying that he was along for the ride. He was a huge, he was, he was, he was the best player in the league. Yeah, well, what are we talking about? Like, I'm not going to sit here and do that with anybody. Um, you know, but, but so, so I agree with you guys. I'm just saying like the optics of that. Like, and maybe it's not even, it's organ, maybe it's organizational versus like, maybe it, maybe it's not about him not being able to physically carry teams to championships, other places, and meeting, you know, maybe it's just the structure in Golden State, the stability that they have, the leadership that they already have in place, like the bones of that are already in place in a way that you

can just plug this offensive talent into it and it wins. And so, if I boil it down to that, then it does put him in another conversation for me as someone who played in the league because I think stardom is more than just plug in your offensive talents and we win. There's a lot more that comes or should come with it than that. I've seen dudes have to be the face of franchise. And that shit is not just about points assist and rebounds. That's about accountability every day.

That's about consistency. see. That's about, and I love this, I'm a steal something from a college recruiter that was recruited my son. And they said their mantra for that specific position was be the thermostat, not the thermometer. Like, you got to set that, you got to be the thermostat every day. You can't be coming in here hot and cold and shitty and I don't want to be here today or I want out. Like that's, there's more that comes to it. And so while I can agree with everything you guys said in terms of how incredible that would be and his third title and all of that stuff, I would still say I have to put you in a category as a mercenary score. Question, though.

But there is also another thing if he does go back to Golden State. And it would, I think, push aside a narrative that has kind of wrapped around Kevin, which is he doesn't have a home. If he goes back to Golden State, he officially, he has a home, in my opinion. I'd like that for him. You know, and I would like that for him too, right? Like, for somebody that, you know, for someone that, for someone that, for someone that, I mean, all the shit I'm just saying,

I mean, he's brilliant, right? So for someone of that level, yeah, I'd want him to have a home. Right, yeah, that'd be good. Okay, fuck the Lakers. We've talked too much on this. It's, uh, there's plenty of time to bury the Lakers later.

It's plenty of time to bury the Lakers. Kerm. You got spared. Kerm. how you doing brother it's time for motherfucking mailbags we're ready to go

let's do I need to shoot you a text I need to shoot him a text like he's late I'm fine I didn't know if you needed a text like you was late to come on to the

let it go let's get it no no Curm get him his head Kerm get on his head Kerm it is time

get on his head Kerm he is a disrespectful he is being disrespectful today for everybody that needs to know hold on I got your back Curr, fuck him.

Because, because, because Kerm was like, he got on the call. Kerm was the first person today on the call who was on time being very professional. Doing his job. Doing his job. Despite it being earlier in his time zone than mine and Russia. Right.

And he just puts a very, just, very just innocent text. Where's everybody at? Raja, who was eight minutes late to the call, probably was his, who was probably just on his computer the whole time, right? then goes, gets on the call and says, hey, Kerm, what was that bullshit? I didn't even look at the text, but what was the bullshit that you were coming at me with? Kerm was just trying to be a professional producer, for God's sake.

I haven't heard more lies in a 30-second, like, explanation of what happened than that. Like, that's an incredible, that's incredible. What happened in? What happened in? First of all, I was like four minutes late because I was sitting here literally when I watched the clock, right? Kerm Kerm hit us Kerm hit us with like I was doing something on the computer like shit We usually got like a five to 10 minute grace period

My bad So I'm sitting here handling my business Kerm shoots the text right And when I came in I said who shot me the text No cursing at anyone? None of that And then I looked at Kerm

And then I asked Howard Hey Howard you straight everything good Like But there was it was all tongue and cheek I love my guy Kerm You guys know I don't like to be checked up on like it's like one of my fucking pet peeves

I'm gonna be here bro I'm gonna be in the cut I'm gonna be right here all right let's get these questions man now that we've heard out all of our dirty laundry

Logan keep my name out your mouth way oh man don't you just love this manufactured beef don't you just love this this is this is why we got to be

on Riverside and not in the same room together because yeah right because it would just all go to shit right exactly right yeah anyways so the first question

is from Thomas Bryant. I usually don't mention last names, but I'm like, is this a Laker legend Thomas Bryant or someone else? Not sure. But his question says, playoff team plus Raja. Hey, guys, of the current playoff teams, which team

would benefit most of having a prime Raja bell inserted to the lineup? I need answers from everybody. I guess, Raja, you go first because you are. Let me go last. Let me go last. Let me go last. Let me go last.

My first athlete. Thank you for the grace. I appreciate it. My first inkling, and this is based on a text that was in the group chat, that Raja may or may not have seen, because we just have texted a lot of the, that, that's Howard put in the chat on the Patino game, front of the show, Amino Hassan does the Patino game every year on Twitter and says, like, this person is not walking through the door to help your team. Anyways, Raj's name got brought up in the Patino game saying Roger Bell, not by, Not by Howard, but by a fan saying, Roger Bell ain't walking through that door.

So I say all that to say, this, I don't know how far they would go, but this current roster of the Phoenix Suns could definitely, definitely use a kick into the ass from Roger Bell. I think that. I'll just start off with that one. What about you, Howard? Well, Rajel appreciate this too, Roger.

My contribution to the Patino game last night was the two Jake's Sokolitos and Voscul. Oh. That's a deep cut, man. Yeah, that's a deep cut. That's a deep cut. They had two of them at the same time. Of the teams that are still standing,

man, all, first of all, let's be clear. Everybody could use a Raja Bell, Prime Raja. Hell you. Thanks, Howard. Fucking right. We know this. But of the teams right now, like, you know, The Pacers, obviously haven't been like spectacular defensively.

So like a gritty Roger Bell type, little 3&D getting some guys' faces, knock some people around. I could see that. Mavericks maybe. Similar reasons, although their D is pretty good right now. Yeah, off the top of my head. Yeah, I appreciate that. I think all three of you, I think I could help Phoenix in the capacity.

just a little grit. Like they don't have a lot of bullets in the chamber because of all the reasons we talked about earlier in the pod. I'd go with them, but Dallas was a close second for me. I would love to see you on Dallas because you would, because I think it would just be a better locker room for you. I think you'd have so much more fun into this Dallas locker room. If the question were where would I want to be,

like where would I want to be and where do I think I would fit in best? I thought it was like who needed me, but that would be a different story. Well, no, I mean, they would need you, but I feel like it would be like if both teams would need you, Rajah, but I think that you would have success and a funner time in Dallas. I agree. I agree.

It would be so much fun, bro. Okay. What's the next question, Kurt? Next question from Matt. It's titled Evaluating Knuckleheadness. Okay. All right. So Matt is an excited and anxious Timberwolves fan.

I'll say before we get to the question. The question is for any of you, but especially curious about Raj's thoughts as a former front office guy. How much does a player's maturity and likelihood of maturing play into how teams and analysts evaluate them? How much should maturity matter? And pretty much, he's framing this in, from the lens as a Timberwolves fan, thinking of a Carl Anthony Towns who feels like this is a year where he's kind of blossomed into the player that they needed him to be on a successful playoff team. So what are you guys' thoughts? Well, I could just speak from experience in this one. Like maturity or lack thereof are huge pieces of the decision making

when you're looking at a potential star for your franchise. Like you, it's projection for sure, but you're doing everything you can, you know, as a staff to get to the root of who they are, their decision making, their maturity, level and the hope is that they'll either be mature enough and good enough to lift that franchise up or mature enough like in this case with specifically Carl Anthony Towns to maybe you're not the reason ultimately like the number one player on the championship level team but if we find that guy and he comes in after you do or we have to bring him in you're mature enough to handle that and to

Howard's point you know earlier you know in the show be able to kind of fit around the people that we bring in to help facilitate winning and ultimately getting the championship. So maturity is huge. I mean, I think if you look at the two young teams in this postseason, Minnesota and Oklahoma City, the big reason why they're good and why, like, we have faith in them sustaining them being good over the next few years is that maturity, right? And the guys that are the front-facing people, like I'll even look at Oklahoma City right now, and I'm really impressed by them, but you talk about SGA, right? Very mature young kid with Jalen Williams, right?

Very mature young kid. And those are pillars that you need for the type of long-term success, right? Like, I hate to, like, kind of shit on the Biffis Grizzlies again, but, like, you see, like, what a lack of maturity can get you. Like, it literally just wastes time because we only have a finite. amount of time that you have being a contender and you can't waste that doing stupid shit. You just can't do it. And maturity could mean a bunch of different things, guys, right? Like, it might mean your work ethic and your seriousness about the game, your approach.

It might mean your personality. It might mean even if you're really talented and dedicated to the game. It might mean that you're not mature as a player and you just dominate the ball too much. You're not considered of your teammates or of team structure or whatever. Like, it could be a lot of things. teams definitely try to steer clear. Like, talent wins. And so teams, if you're, if you're talented enough, like if Zion Williams were available tomorrow, teams would line up probably to get them. But there'd be a bunch that would just be out on day one because people aren't convinced of Zion,

and not just the durability. That's obviously part of it. But his durability and his maturity, in terms of the way he handles his business as a player, are all hand in hand. And so there are teams that would probably look at him askew and say, you know what? Incredible talents. He could change the trajectory of our franchise. I'm not rolling the dice on. him. So, like, it comes into play in these conversations, for sure. Yeah, for sure. But a great point about maturity being different, like, meaning different things. Like, that's facts. Next question is from Kevin. It's about the dunker spot. Have the Denver Nuggets and Aaron Gordon reinvigorated the dunker spot in today's NBA? Maybe it's recency bias because they've

been playing their kids, the Lakers. That's not cool. You're right. You're right. You didn't have to, you didn't have to say that. We didn't have to slander the Lakers are, are, are, esteemed audience did it for us. But it sure seems like they're feasting with that action more than I've seen in a decade at least. How are they doing that? I got this one, guys. Don't even worry about it. Don't even trip.

They're doing that because LeBron keeps forgetting that he's guarding Aaron Gordon and just let them back door cut for a fucking lob over and over again. That's how they're doing it. But if you guys have anything else to add. Fairness, hasn't Aaron Gordon been doing it to the league for the last couple of years since getting it done? Yeah. But specifically Kerm's Lakers and LeBron. If you want to bash your own team, Kerm, let me be my guest.

I'm just, I'm trying to like soften it. You appreciate it. Well, yeah. I mean, also Kerm texted the group chat, the other group chat that, you know, he was just how done he was with this Lakers organization. I don't want to say exactly what he said, but he was pretty sad a couple days ago. Oh, man. I got you.

I can say it. I can say it on. I was mixing bleach with Phantom, man. I was really thinking, you know, I might have to, it might have to sip something and just take that. You said, quote, y'all might not have a producer net tomorrow. This is getting, it got dark. It got really dark.

Listen, man, I'm sorry for earlier, dude. Like, I didn't know. That's my bad. I'm going through it over here, Raj. I do want to hear Rajas's perspective, though, from a basketball standpoint in terms of, like, the dunker spot and how that's been reinvigorated with Aaron. And I try to tell kids. He's really answered the questions.

I try to tell kids all the time, man, when I get them in the gyms. Trust me, the dunker, if you have someone with the ball who's going to command a set of eyes because they can play offensively and also can pass the ball and as a willing passer, you're going to eat at the dunker spot. Or we have to live with that guy getting on top of the rim and punishing us and he's probably their best player. So, I mean, that combination of those things, shooters, a dominant guy who can get on top of the rim, force all eyes to kind of always have to check for him and be in a help position and a really adept, bouncy finisher down there in the Dunker Spot, it's a deadly combination that Denver Nuggets have it. Also, Dunker Spot, hell of a basketball podcast. Check it out. Yeah, last question. This is actually a producer, mailbag question.

I was watching the Temple Wolves, you know, eliminate Phoenix last night. And then in the post game, I think Kenny had a question for Aunt. No, it was, it was E.J. He was E.J., you're right, you're right. He had a question for Aunt of, you know, what's Aunt's favorite basketball movie? Ant said Love and Basketball, which is obviously the correct answer. But what is you guys' opinions of the best basketball movie ever? I'm going to go first.

Love and basketball is tight, right? Like it just, it, it spawned a generation of basketball relationships between men and women and just for two years, two decades, at least. You know, just like I want to be Quincy. From experience here. Yeah, yeah. I definitely wanted to be Quincy McCall. I'll tell you that.

That was great. But I don't think it's my, it's not my favorite one, though. My favorite one is He Got Game. We did a rewatchable on that last year. You guys can go check that out. Me, Van, and Bill, that is a plug. But it was great just because I love the New York propaganda of He Got Game. Plus, there was just a lot better acting, in my opinion.

Just Denzel just fucking going at folks, right? And just being, you know, ankle monitor, Denzel is a special bag of Denzel. and that puts it that puts it over the top for me so I'm gonna go with he got game that's my faith what you got Howard

I've never seen loving basketball by the way do I need to watch it what the fuck yeah you should watch it cut the mics it was in the great like R&B bag of like

black cinema you know what I mean it was just it was great like it was so the white guy on the podcast didn't see it and gets killed so that's there we go

As he should. I'll get to it. It's on the list. I might as well go there then. White Man Can't Jump was fucking awesome. The original. Not that bullshit remake they tried to do last year. Hey, Howard, you can hear Jimmy.

You definitely hear Jimmy. God damn right, I can. White Man Can't Jump was just fun. But also, like, right in that same, like the mid-90s. So White Men Can't Jump. I think it's all mid-90s. White Man Can't Jump. He got game, absolutely. Actually, I guess he got game was more like early 2000s, right? No, it was 98, 98. 98. So right in that zone. And then Hoop Dreams, of course, like, you know, at the time and maybe still greatest basketball documentary of all time. And it doesn't even feel like a documentary when you watch it. I mean, hoop dreams might be a deep cut for younger listeners, but go check it out. By the way, quick aside, though, because last night, I'm like, I want to make sure, like, I don't miss anything obvious here. Like, what am I need to remind myself?

of it, so I was just scrolling, like, basketball movies. This is going to sound ridiculous. I actually really enjoyed Uncle Drew, Kyrie's movie. It was actually really fun. It was a fun movie. Especially, like, Chris Weber and all those guys with, like, the old man, makeup on and everything, was

really funny. Like, I actually enjoyed that. And then special shout out to not a basketball movie, but basketball was central to the plot. Uncut Gems. Elton Bragg. Yeah. Kevin Gornet. Yeah.

Like, yeah. There was some good shit in there. So shout out Adam Sandler. All right. So I'm going to give a couple like honorable mentions. If I might, blue chips. Yeah. I never saw it.

Yeah, you never saw blue chips. Jesus. Hed Shack. Penny. But you saw Hoosiers though. Hoosiers was my second. It's my second honorable mention. Oh, you never saw Hoosiers?

Damn, my bad. Gene Hackman, another great one. But it's above, it's above the rim. like above the rim is is like that's around the time when I was up in the northeast um you know playing at Boston University with a bunch of people from New York and stuff like that and they had the big Olaf shorts a lot of propaganda huh a lot of propaganda yeah yeah pot birdie in there and all yeah I'm going with I'm going with uh above the rim yeah and they're eight foot rims yeah oh man yes that was great all right well that's been another edition of ruins

had a blast today. We'll talk about your favorite team at other time. Let's just shout out to Jalen Brunson. I don't want to act like we didn't see your team, Nix fans. We saw it. Shout out to Clippers Mavericks because that was a fun game as well. But, you know, then be the breaks.

Anyways, see you guys on Friday. Talk to you soon. All the shits, bye. Let's be 21 years and older, 18 years and older in D.C. and President in Select States, Fandual is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with the Kansas Star Casino LLC. The only problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit Fandul.com, backslash, RG in Colorado, D.C., Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, and Vermont.

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