The Ringer NBA Show - ’Tis the (NBA Trade) Season | The Mismatch (Ep. 356)

Episode Date: December 18, 2018

Trade season dawns on the NBA as free-agency restrictions get lifted (0:54), the James Harden–led Houston Rockets surge up the standings (21:07), and the Oklahoma City Thunder’s stellar defense keeps them rolling (33:49). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Mismatch is brought you by Yahoo Daily Fantasy. Yahoo Daily Fantasy had such a great year that they are giving you a taste of what 2019 looks like with a $1 million fantasy football contest. Someone will take down $100,000 for first place. One in four people who play will double their money. Not a bad way to end the year. There's a limit of 10 entries per player, so play is fair and everyone gets a shot. Don't miss this contest. Go to Yahoo.com.

Daily Fantasy. Use the promo code Yahoo 25 when you make your first deposit for $25 in free play. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. This is The Mismatch. I am Chris Varnan. Joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Conflict, aka Kevin O'Cleck, Kevin O'Con, Chris, what up? How are you doing today? Everything's good. There has been quite a bit of news over the course of the last week since we have last spoken. Not the least of which was something that concluded last night, kind of, with the trade that took place over the weekend, I happened to be right in the middle of this Friday night at FedEx Forum in Memphis was honestly, I mean, I've been covering the team

since they moved to Memphis, maybe the craziest night I've had at an arena. The Adrian Wurgenowski tweet drops with about, I don't know, six minutes left. in a game that is going on. And it just says that the Grizzlies are trading two role players, which may or may not be on the court at that exact time, and that there's going to be a three-way deal between Washington, Phoenix, and the Grizzlies. And so anyways, first things first, when you first saw that reported deal, what did you think?

Well, I forget which one I saw first was the Marshawn Brooks or the Dylan Brooks one, but originally with Dylan Brooks, it was why would Memphis be doing this? And then when it was Marshawn Brooks, it was why would Phoenix be doing this? And then obviously we were stuck in limbo for a little while before actually realized what was going to happen. But honestly, man, like that night curse, I was texting with somebody and with the executive and it's like, how does something like this happen? It was just really a state of disbelief. That's really the way I was feeling that entire night. How does this happen?

This is fantasy league stuff, isn't it? Maybe worse. So as I understand it, if I could try to just explain it from what I've gathered, and it's not going to make complete sense. But maybe it will at least give people some level of understanding. So the teams kind of talk throughout the day, and Washington is trying to find a third team because the sons don't want Uber. Okay?

So they need somebody to take on Uberie. So they call the Grizzlies, and they say, hey, what would you give up for Ubre? Now, that's the only part of the deal that you particularly need to worry about. You don't need to worry about what Washington is going to dole off to Phoenix. You're just saying, hey, here's what we would give up. So they start talking and they say they'd give up Marchion Brooks and they would give up Wayne Seldon and then there were a couple of second round picks that were involved.

Okay. So now Washington has what they need in order to, make the flip that they want with Phoenix. So in the meantime, when Washington talks to Phoenix, they say, I suppose, you're going to get Brooks and Selden. Phoenix then takes that as we're getting Dylan Brooks. Okay. Now the news leaks. The news leaks. Phoenix, I suppose, that's what I'd guess, get so excited about the deal and somebody says, hey, we're making this deal. They're excited to tell somebody news. So they say, hey, we're making this deal.

And this is what we're doing. We're getting Dylan Brooks and we're getting this and we're getting this and whatever. Now, in the meantime, that news comes out. That breaks in the middle of the game. Now, nothing was going to be done until after the games anyway, right? And so these three teams haven't even talked. They haven't been on a conference call or a text or whatever because the only team Memphis has talked to is Washington. So now it gets lost in translation to Phoenix.

The news leaks. This is when, and this is obviously 2018, this is when this becomes a massive problem because they're under the impression that it's Dylan when it's Marshawn. So the Grizzlies obviously become furious over this, but this is how you know that the Grizzlies were, they thought they were giving up Marshawn. Chris Wallace goes and pulls Marshawn Brooks and Wayne Selden aside and tells them they've been traded. Now the story comes out and it says it's Dylan Brooks and now you've got to just like massive damage control because now there's been this confusion. Now there's this fury that's going on and they've got to go back and they've got to say no, it was never Dylan, it was Marshawn. but now you've got to go back and you've got to mend it with the players that you were going to deal. And so obviously they were furious about this because the news leaked out before the deal obviously was done.

And there was a level of confusion that was involved in all of this. And so obviously there's blame to go around, right? Like one of the things I've said is, you know, I don't know. If I've got a bag of $500,000 and I give it to Ernie Grunfeld and he screws it up, well, who's the idiot? Is it Ernie for screwing it up or is it me because I gave the money to Ernie Grunfield in the first place? Right?

Like, what do you expect when you're dealing with goofies? Right? And so this is how you know, I mean, you're dealing with two goofy people. You know what I mean? So, like, you got to know this going in. That's my point of view, right? Chris, if you ever have a bag of $500,000, you can trust it with me. Understood, Kevin, and I would.

Certainly more than the other two teams that were involved in this deal. I'm now to the point where I think you should run your bright future sons. Because when I see last night that they've waived Austin Rivers, then what in the hell did they do this deal for? They had a real asset in Areza. People wanted him. And so what did they get out of this? they didn't save money, they didn't get picks, and they didn't get any players that they wanted

because they didn't want to, Bray, or else they wouldn't have gotten the grislies involved in the first place. And so I honestly have no idea what the hell they're doing. Like nobody, it didn't seem like anybody was acknowledging that last night. It's just like, oh, well, there's so much Austin River slander that it doesn't really matter. But take a step back, what the hell did Phoenix do this deal for? They could have gotten something for Trevor Reza. You mentioned how they didn't have to give up picks, but in the original deal, Washington was getting a pick.

So maybe originally they would have had to have given up a pick to get Ubrey, but they would have felt that it wasn't worth it in the original deal. And it wasn't until after all that shenanigans happened. Only then was Washington just like, screw it. We'll do it without the pick, right? No, I get why Washington's doing the deal, Kev. What the hell is Phoenix doing if they're getting rid of Austin Rivers? Then what did they get? They didn't get anything that they wanted.

I'm no fan of Kelly Ubrey. I wasn't a fan prior to the draft. I'm not a fan now. Kelly Ubray is a player who, with his athleticism and his length and his body, he should be an elite defender, but he's not. He doesn't have the fundamentals nor the consistency and the effort required to be an elite defender. His shot is inconsistent.

I'm not a fan of him, and he's going to get paid this summer. However, for Phoenix, maybe you're getting a young, guy who's going to come in and for the next month is going to bust his ass trying to like show it to Washington. Like here's what you're missing out with. And then guess what? At that point, maybe you could flip them at a one for one deal somewhere else. I'm just saying maybe that's what you do if you're Phoenix. I'm not a fan of him. And I think they probably should have done the Lakers deal with KCP. That's the one they should have done. However, there was the factor with Robert Sarver as Adrian Wardenowski reported that they didn't want to deal with

the Lakers. And I reported yesterday that they demanded Josh Hart. It may have also may have been Sveh McIluke that the Lakers said no to as well. But either way, KCP alone is a better asset than Kelly Ubre. Yeah, well, I mean, it's fine to say now like, hey, here's what you could possibly do with Ubre. But here's the deal. We know, everyone knows, they didn't want him. You could have done that deal without any other team.

But you brought in a third team because you didn't want him. And so now you got something that you didn't want. You got no picks. You didn't save money. It could at least have made some sense if they wanted Austin Rivers. It might have been foolish. But if they wanted Austin Rivers, at least it makes some kind of sense. But they clearly didn't want him.

They've already gotten rid of him before he even plays there. So I don't understand. Just goofy. Goofy. Kevin, I say goofy. Hey, man. It's a lot of frustration. and a lot of goofiness, as you might say, Chris,

over a trade that's overall pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. It is pretty insignificant. For both teams, for all three teams that originally evolved, it's pretty insignificant, but it made for a fun Friday night in the NBA, didn't it? It did make for a fun Friday night. Yesterday, you put up on the ringer.com an early primer for NBA trade season. So let's talk about what intrigues you the most? Is it Parker?

Obviously, he's the first guy that is mentioned. No. It is not Parker, though. No, it's really, I think, what is New Orleans going to do? What are they going to do? What can they do? Because you have this player in Anthony Davis who, I mean, he is a top three to five guy in the league. He is somebody where in the playoffs when he's playing 42, 43, maybe 45 minutes a game, he gives you a chance to win.

They went to the second round last year, someone on a conference. expectably, if him and Drew Holiday are playing at an elite level at the top of their games in the playoffs if they're able to make other additions, who knows if they could make a run at the Western Conference finals and change things for AD to want to stay at least an

extra season. But they need to make additions. They need to find wings. They need to find guys who can defend because looking at the numbers, when Davis and Holiday are on the floor together, Chris, they outscore teams by 12.8 points per 100 possessions. That's

the equivalent of like a six a high 60s wins team but when you take either just one of those guys off or both of them off the pelicans get outscored by the opposite 12.8 points per one of our possessions and that's like a high 60s loss team so they go from this elite team with both those guys to this horrific team with just one or neither of them and so they need they need more secondary support and i just don't know where they're going to find it because there's not a lot out there. There's just not every executive of talk to has remarked about how this could be a quiet year,

how not a lot of great players could be exchanged. It could just be a lot of, you know, even swaps, right? And that's what it feels like is all that could be out there for New Orleans. I mean, like, what is there, Chris, that could really, really move the needle for them? Well, and here's the other issue

is you don't have a lot of sellers. You've got the Knicks, the Cavs, the Bulls, and the Hawks. All of those teams are completely out of it. Once you get to the record that's above the Knicks, you've got the Wizards. And the Wizards are, you know, they're six games under 500, but they're trying to make the playoffs. And you only have one team in the Western Conference that's punting the season. You know that they're not a playoff team. Everybody else fancies themselves as a playoff team now. So who's selling

off? You know, typically we have more teams that when you get a third of the way into the season come to the reality that, okay, we need to start thinking about next year. But there ain't that many teams that are thinking about next year, Kevin. They're thinking about this year. And that was one of the points in the articles. It's like, this market has a lot of buyers and the sellers just don't have much for sale, right? I mean, what is there from Cleveland, right?

J.R. Smith. I mean, come on now. I mean, like, New Orleans may have interest in him and maybe J.R. comes back and he's rejuvenated, but he's J.R. Smith, Roddy Hood even. Roddy Hood could provide a spark off the bench. Alec Burgess could provide a spark off the bench, but what New Orleans needs is consistent defenders. That's what they need on that roster. Anthony Davis already provides their primary source of scoring, and I think with guys like Nicola Amirich and Julius Randall and Drew Holliday, even Etouan Moore's three-point shooting this year has been terrific. He is the floater god. They have scoring on their.

their team. They need more defense. And I'm just not sure where that is for Norlands. And that's why to me, Chris, like circling back to your original point, I'm most fascinated by them because they have to make a move. I'm just not sure where their answer is going to come from. And I'm going to be very interested to see if Del Dems could come up with something very creative here to help improve their chances. Yeah, obviously there's some veterans there on that Cleveland roster, you know, like they moved Corver already. And so maybe you could get somebody off of that you talked about love, which it doesn't seem like they're very interested in moving him,

though he would move the needle more than anybody else. I don't think love gets moved for what it's worth. Yeah, I mean, some of these teams of the young players, I mean, I'd like to have Bobby Portis on a team as a playoff team. If you could try to,

you know, wrangle him away from the Bulls, you know, they got to clean up the roster there in Phoenix. They got so many of these wings. So could you get one of those young guys at a reasonable deal like a Jackson? or like a Bridges or like a T.J. Warren,

or are they going to just stick with all of those guys and build with them in mind? I don't know. I mean, but there's not that much. You're right. I mean, in terms of a guy that I think I could poach off of one of those teams without giving up a ton that could really help me in a playoff run and then when you get to playoff basketball.

Yeah, I just don't know what's out there. For New Orleans, I don't know what's out there. And yet you look at a team like the Kings, another interesting team. They're the only team with Cap Space right now. They have about $11 million in space. They have about $40 million in expiring contracts, including Zach Randolph, your old friend,

at $12 million. They're a team where they can do either or. They can either try to use those pieces to add a player, go for somebody like Otto Porter, or they can be somebody who takes on contracts. They can take on like a Courtney leave from the Knicks, or they can take on a Solomon Hill from New Orleans or whatever. anybody that's looking to dump salary,

they're in an inverse position where they have a lot of options. New Orleans doesn't have many. Zbo's an interesting one. Obviously, listen, he hasn't been around the team. He's been in Memphis for a good portion of the season. And he's not in bad shape. I mean, I just saw him about a week and a half ago.

He could help somebody. There's no doubt in my mind. And he is a totally forgotten player. I mean, in terms of coming off the bench, murdering backup fours, and just getting you, you know, points and rebounds when you need it, Zeebo could help somebody. There's no doubt in my mind, but he's just a forgotten player. And obviously, Sacramento's been very good.

They have, I mean, Yeager's got to be in the coach of the year conversation. And I know they got slaughtered last night by Minnesota, but to have their record at this point, they are right there in the playoff race and they're 16 and 14 through 30 games. And I do want to talk about this. Last night, in regards to that Minnesota game, beforehand, Dave Yeager felt like he needed to clarify his statements from the weekend regarding Luca Donchich, where he was effusive in his praise of Luca Donchich. The quote came out saying, you know, I know some people have talked about a ceiling with him, but I don't see it, which is unfortunate for us, and blah, blah, blah. And so Tim McMahon from ESPN puts the quote out there on Twitter. And before I even see the quote, somebody texted me and said, man, is Dave trying to get fired?

And I was like, what? And so I go and I look at the quote and I'm like, good grief. And I will tell you this. I've known Dave Yeager since we were both in our young 20s. Like I know him, know him. And I saw the quote. And I was like, and I know all the stuff that's been going on in Sacramento that's been reported with him and Vladie and Brandon Williams and on and on. I saw the video of it and it is one of those situations where the video, I think, looks infinitely better than the quote when it is transcribed.

If you watch the video, and I'm saying this is someone that knows that guy, I honestly do not believe he was trying to slight. Marvin Bagley or their management. I didn't take it that way at all when I saw the video. And I have been, I have bared witness to him sliding. Okay. He's like, I've seen it. I've seen him irritated. He was, I think, trying to do the thing where he pumps up, you know, the opponent and Luca. And he obviously thinks Luca's a fantastic player, as does everybody else. and I didn't take that as unfortunate for us because we should have him instead of the guy we've got. I took that as it's unfortunate for us and everybody else because this guy is going to be awesome. But I understand the way it was transcribed.

And so I will tell you, when he comes out and says that last night that I wasn't, you know, that wasn't a dig at management and that wasn't a dig at Marvin Bagley, etc. I 100% believe him because I'm telling you, if you watch the video, it ain't nearly as bad as it is transatlantic. inscribed. But it certainly doesn't help that, you know, at least for 24 hours, everybody was talking about Dave Yeager taking a shot at, you know, his front office, et cetera, et cetera. I honestly don't think he was in that case. I've seen him take shots at front offices in person. And that ain't what it's like. You know what I mean? This was kind of like, I don't know, he's being jovial about it.

And I thought it was taken the wrong way and run with where it was meant to be a super compliment for Luca. I just wanted to at least say that because that was obviously a story for 24 hours. I'm glad you did because the video did make it fairly clear, at least in my eyes, that he was just complimenting Luca. That's all. Yeah, I don't think he was taking shots there. Like you said, Yeager has been known to take shots. But I don't think that was one of them. Listen, once upon a time, I lived through it. He absolutely took a shot years ago. The Grizzlies drafted a guy named Jordan Adams from UCLA who got so injured that his career just petered out and he could never make it back. But he wanted Rodney Hood.

And everybody knew he wanted Rodney Hood. And when they played Utah and Rodney Hood had a big game, he 100% talked about, I mean, basically, wow, it sure would be nice to have that guy. I mean, it was a shot. There's no way around it. It was a shot that he was taking because he was still sour about not. getting him, but I didn't take that away at all when he was talking about Bagley and Luca. And obviously, I've got a lot of stock in Bagley. I think, listen, I think Sacramento thinks Bagley's going to be extremely good, and I still do too. He's injured right now, but he was looking

very good before he got injured and had some really big games before he got injured. That being said, they got beat bad last night by Minnesota, despite, I mean, this is the way this season is going, right? Every time you look up and you see these scores every night, it's hard to make sense of them. And it's hard to figure out who is really good, who is for real. You know, one week we're talking about, you know, the Clippers, no offense, Isaac. But then Isaac's texting us last night, he's downtrodden about the Clippers. And Blazers fans, they were so distraught for a week there after they had gone on that. long road trip and they were losing a lot.

But now they win last night at the Clippers. And so Clippers fans feel down and Blazers fans are feeling good. You know, I'm watching this morning on some of the recap shows. And they're talking about how the Spurs destroyed the Sixers last night. And so what are the conversations? Well, is Embed going to be okay playing with Jimmy Butler? He expressed his discontent a week ago and talked about how Brett Brown's playing him as a stretch five and he doesn't like that.

And is this going to work out with these two? Because you do need the spacing because Jimmy Butler likes to drive to the hole. And it's like, geez, Louise, these games like that are so crazy. And we see crazy scores every night that this is just, it feels like not the season to be making overarching statements about anyone, right? Well, oftentimes it isn't anyway, right? Especially this season where so many teams are even cursed, especially in the Western conference, it's still unfathomable to me that there's only seven games of separation between

the one and the 14 right now. That is just so hard to believe a third into the season right now. We're still at that point that Denver and Golden State are separated with Utah by just seven games. That's unreal and that'll shake out over the course of the season, I'm sure. But I think it's going to stay relatively tight. I mean, like with last night, Houston now they've won four in a row. they're starting to find a rhythm, but you still can't say that they fixed themselves because in November they had a stretch where it seemed like they did too,

where they beat, I believe it was Indiana, Denver, Golden State, Sacramento, and Detroit. They went on a five-game winning streak. They looked better, and then they fell apart again. So we'll see with Houston, but I do think the way they played last night,

James Harden dropping 47 points, Chris. They definitely certainly are looking a lot better than they had before, though. Yeah, but in that four-game stretch, and obviously the game right before that, they only lost by three at Dallas. But, I mean, he's gone 29, 50, 32, 47. Unreal. It is hard to beat teams when one guy, you know, was averaging, damn near 40 points a game. But that's what it's taken.

I mean, that game is right down to the wire last night against Utah before he is able to get away with 10. taking 15 steps against Ricky Rubio. Yeah, what do you think about that travel? I think it was insanity that the ref is standing afoot from him. Okay. Here's my thing with this, Chris. I totally get why everybody gets so frustrated with the traveling and why they get annoyed by James Hardin. But the thing is that referees, for the most part, in the NBA, are good.

It's a fast-paced game. But one of the things that they're bad at is calling traveling, right? they always have been. Think about situations where traveling isn't called, but it should be. Sometimes, like, if a player has his left pivot foot established, right, in a triple threat stance, but before dribbling, he lifts up his left foot, that should be a travel. It doesn't get called. Or sometimes on a drive to the basket, he takes three steps. It doesn't get called. And that happens. James Hardin just does it differently in a way that somebody hasn't done it before. Instead of traveling towards the rim, he's traveling away from the rim.

So it looks different. It looks weirder. It's unique. He's the only guy who really does it. So everybody is furious about it. But watching that play live and full speed, it looks so fluid and so smooth that the referee has a hard time seeing it in the same way that it's hard to see. If a guy is in a triple threat or he's driving to the rim, Hardin has just mastered it that it's so hard to see and so hard for a referee to call. that honestly man like yeah it's a travel and yes it should have been a hundred percent was a travel

last night but dude like his footwork is extraordinary and not only that but like his athleticism is agility i mean like dude to be able to shoot the ball the way he steps back it's amazing i mean it's clear that he practices those moves it's like a ballet dancer i'm blown away by it in a way and i wonder if more people start looking at it like that if other players start doing it if it's not just James Harden. Do you feel me on that? Or am I just defending somebody that everybody hates? You're defending someone that everybody hates.

There is nothing less enjoyable to me than watching him foul hunt for an entire game. It is like the goal, I mean, there were times between him and Paul where you watch them play. And the goal is to draw a foul rather than make a basket half the time, which drives me insane. Now, here's what I will tell you. And this will be a little bit of an excuse for the referee. What I would tell you is the reason that that's not called last night is because when you have established yourself as possibly the greatest foul hunter of all time, all these referees do is look for the slightest touch on your arm. That's what they're looking for. And so they're not paying attention to the guy's feet.

they're looking to see, they know what he's doing. He's going to take the step back and he's either going to pump. He's going to try to get you in the air or he's going to try to get you to have a finger, you know, graze against his elbow so he can act like he was shot. And so the reps are keenly aware of this all the time. So they're looking at his upper body and they're looking at his arms and they're not paying attention to the fact that he's shuffling around a ballet dancer. Get the hell out of here.

The guy's just walking around. Just hopping with the ball Put the ball in the ground Be serious Listen I tell you this I go to games with a bunch of like I watch You know six year old basketball And that's what six year olds do

No They don't put the ball on the ground They just run with the ball Like it's football Okay let's forget about that travel play last night Let's just forget about that one And think about the one that happened after that The next play

The dagger That to me is what captures The essence of James Harden that play was just extraordinary, the herky jerky movement, the shoulder shimmy, just the mere movement of his shoulders threw Ricky Rubio back, thinking it was going to be a drive, and that opened up the room for the fair stepback three that he drained. There are so few players like James Harden, I mean, he's one of the greatest scorers ever, ever, ever, Chris. He is proven from a biomechanical perspective, he is an outlier with the data that P3 has

shown. From a footwork perspective, he is a technician, man. Like the spinning and the twirling, the way he balances himself mid-air to shoot of basketball. Put it this way, if basketball points were scored, like it's ice skating or boxing, right? I think James Hardin would have maybe the highest degree of difficulty on a lot of the shots that he's taken because so much is off the dribble. I get annoyed that so much of the focus is put on his drawing foul when he's, to me, one of the more creative, unique scores that we've seen. I think part of his drawing fouls makes him different.

And I like that about him. I just love the way he moves with the ball. He's so quick, so strong. He manipulates defenders with precise improvisation, man. I think Hardens a brilliant player who's just a little bit annoying sometimes, but he's brilliant. I enjoy watching him, Chris. You're talking to the wrong guy.

Because, by the way, I can't just forget about the travel. Why were the mismatch, Chris? That's why we're the mismatch. Well, I can't forget about the travel. It's a three-point game when he gets that call. It's a three-point game. I mean, every win in this Western Conference playoff race is going to matter.

But are we spending five minutes arguing about LeBron James when he picks up his left foot when he drives through him? No, we're not. That's normal because we're used to that. But a travel is a travel. LeBron James is trying to score. Yeah, so hard enough. Yeah, James Hart is trying to do it.

get to the free throw line. Listen, you're talking to the wrong guy on this because, listen, once upon a time, I watched the game, you can go look this up. James Harden scored 27 points in a game that I watched and made two field goals. No one will ever do that in the history of the NBA. That happened. Great. Two made field goals and scored 27 points.

It's an outrage. It's an outrage. And now that's what referees look at. They just look to see if he's going to get fouled. That's what they know he's playing for. And when it's a three-point game last night, and the guy can get away with five steps, come on. It wasn't five steps.

It was three steps. It was five steps. It was three steps. It was three steps. It was three steps. Go look at the damn headlines right now. The headlines are wrong. It was three steps.

Will you please just pull up like ESPN.com and go to the NBA page? Yeah. And it says, Literally, Hardin gets away with five steps. Yeah, it was three steps, though. Okay, great. I can't believe going back and forth like children. It was five steps.

It was three steps. You got a Harden jersey on? No. I just wish James Hardin's scoring were appreciated. That's all. All right, Kiv, we'll get right back to it. Do you want to remind everybody. Today's episode of the mismatch is brought to you by ZipRecruiter.

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Today's episode also brought to you by Zoom. Video conferencing has changed the way we do business. Fewer long-distance trips and more face-time at the click of a mouse. And in 2018, the clear winner is Zubrower. Zoom. Zoom delivers flawless video, pin drop, clear audio, and instant sharing across any device. Desktop, laptop, tablet, or mobile. Share anything with anyone. A word file, a spreadsheet, a presentation deck. Zoom is everything you always wanted video communication to be with some amazing features you didn't think of, but you'll wonder how you lived without them. We here at the Ringer use Zoom for

our meetings every day to connect with the Ringer headquarters in Los Angeles, to the East Coast Bureau in New York and all the staffers in between. Visit zoom.us to set up your free account today. That zoom. Dot us. Meet happy with Zoom video communications. Oklahoma City, they played and they won last night, and then they got into a fight or a kerfuffle, as it were, with the Bulls.

But the big story about Oklahoma City is that they extended Billy Donovan and his contract. And so I'm interested in your point of view on this. They have been very, very good this year, have the Oklahoma City Thunder. And once upon a time, it looked like Billy Donovan would not be a long-term coach for them. But, you know, them picking up his extension at this point in the season does at least put some security for Billy Donovan. And I do think people's opinions, they change quite a bit. Donovan given whatever the Oklahoma City Thunder are doing at the time, and they've been very good right now.

But what do you think about Donovan getting an extension from Oklahoma City? It's great. I think Billy Donovan's a good coach. And I think we're starting to see that this season. More than ever, and part of it is Westbrook has tweaked his play a little bit. For years, you and I have talked about it. I've written about it on the ringer about, I think one of the first things I wrote on the ringer, Russell Westbrook Roadmap about how I love to see him play more off ball.

And that's happened a little bit more this season, which is nice. And I think part of that has allowed Billy Dunham and to coach his offense a little bit more. But also, I think, forget about offense for a minute now. This defense is kick ass, right? The Thunder have an unbelievable team defense. And a lot of that has to do to the front office with the guys that they're bringing in. A lot of smart defensive players who play hard, who are willing to. to play hard, but it also has to do with Billing Donovan and his coaching staff,

putting those guys within a system in the right situations, with the right game plans on a game to game basis. And I think he has right to be rewarded. I think it's great for the Oklahoma City Thunder. And for no other reason, you know, we were talking about how it's so hard to know, given week to week, if a team loses three in a row, it's like, what's wrong with them? And if a team wins three in a row, it's like, hey, watch out for them. they are one of the very few teams that I am 100% confident in.

Like I do think they're a very good team. I do believe in that defense, especially when they're throwing Westbrook always plays hard. And you've got Stephen Adams as a back line. And Paul George can be a fantastic perimeter defender, one called upon. And you mentioned they've kind of put together a roster where some of their young guys have clearly gotten better.

But I'm sure of them. Like I think Oklahoma City, they are one that I would tell you they are 100% going to be a playoff team. So in the midst of all of these teams being kind of wedged together record-wise, I do feel rather

confident that they're going to be a good team, a playoff team, probably home court advantage team, don't you? No, I don't definitely don't feel that way. No? For the same reasons we talked about the kind of near the top of the show. The Western Conference is just, the Western

Conference is so packed closely together, could miss Russell Westberg, if he misses five games, could swing the difference between the three seed and the eight seat or maybe even the nine. That's just the nature of the West right now. And not only that, Zach Cram on the ringer.com wrote a really nice article

last week that looked at what the NBA schedule can tell us about who's real in the NBA, right? And Oklahoma City, at the point of the article, I believe it was published last Friday, I want to say. At that time, Oklahoma City had played the easiest strength of schedule. in the NBA and has the toughest moving forward. So that needs to play into the equation as well.

I want to go as far as home court, but I think they're a playoff team, yes. Well, I mean, they have, while they've had that easy schedule, they've also 19 and 10 with a plus 6.4 point differential. So they have, it's not like they're just skating by. And they started off the season pretty slow. I think that team's good.

I believe in their defensive prowess. I do. I do too. but Russell Westbrook still also hasn't developed a scoring rhythm this season, Chris. That's also the other side of it where it started out. We're just coming back from injury, but now we're about 21, 22 games in for Russ, and he still isn't there yet as a score. Okay, well, yeah, that's what I'd say, that he'll eventually get it going like he usually does,

but when they have been so good defensively, that's something you can count on every night is being a good defensive team. Your shots are going to come and go. And one night you might have it going offensively and one night it might not. But if they can keep bringing the same defensive intensity to the table that travels

and it gives you a chance every single night to be able to win games because there ain't a lot of teams in the league playing great defense. No, of course not. And that's why I think they're going to be a playoff team.

But their offense definitely, Russell Westbrook specifically does need to elevate his scoring. By the way, one other quick thing, like, it's worth mentioning with Oklahoma City, Paul George is probably playing the best basketball of his life right now. So in spite of Westbrook, perhaps not being totally himself as a scorer, Paul George has just been lights out scoring the ball.

And he's also, not only that, oftentimes defending the opponent's best player, Paul George is, in my eyes, right now, a dark horse MVP candidate. I don't think he'll win. I don't think he will be MVP, but I think he deserves to be, Absolutely in the top five conversation and then definitely an all NBA guy too. All right. A few more things we want to get to today. We are now, most of these teams have played anywhere from 28 to 31 games. But sitting atop of the Western Conference still through 29 games that they have played are the Denver Nuggets.

They are 29. I thought they would take a step back after losing Paul Millsap, after losing Gary Harris, after getting an injury exception to be able to sign Nick Young. but they are eight and two in their last 10. They have won three in a row. They've got a game against Dallas that I will certainly tune into tonight. Are you surprised that Denver has had staying power despite the fact that they got what you would...

I thought they would be crippled by injury, but they've kept on trucking. What do you think? Yeah. I am floored with all the injuries that they've had, especially that game on Sunday, Chris, beating Toronto? With Kauai, granted Kyle Lauer, he wasn't playing, but 95, 86, holding them the 86 points, man, that's a prize being,

Nikola Yokic, not enough can be said about him, his performance this season. He does whatever that team needs. Whether it's playmaking, whether it's picking up his scoring when he needs to, there was a point earlier this season where he had like four, five, seven points over a five game stretch, but he's averaging 20 this month. you know, obviously also an elite rebounder. But that whole team up and down their roster, never mind Yokic, they just have a lot of good quality players, Belink Beasley able to step in.

Monte-Morse, a second-round pick, leads the NB and assist turnover ratio, rock-solid player, Wancho Hernan Gomez stepping up his play now. They just have good quality players. It's like you said, Chris, what's your motto? Just don't have bad players, right? Yeah, right. If you can throw out teams and when you, watch them if you can't say, man, that guy sucks, right? Just limit the amount of guys, the amount of

guys that you have, and especially when the league is so filled with parody, it is, I think, maybe more important than ever. But for them to have lost, Gary Harris, Will Barton, and Paul Millsap, and still have the record that they've had. And without question, like you say, not enough can be said about Yolkich. He's 18 points. He's 10 rebounds. He's, you know, rounded up, eight assists, you know, a steal and a half a game. This guy, obviously, is going to be in the All-Star game for the first time in his career. And if he keeps playing like this, it's going to be a streak of a ton of All-Star games. It's just crazy.

And kudos to Mike Malone and them for being able to keep on trucking because most teams, when they take even one of those injuries, you know, even like losing somebody like a Barton can really be troubling. And we're seeing it like, you know, the Clippers lost Lou Williams there for an amount of time. And it's hard. But I mean, to lose Harris, Barton, and Millsap, that's crazy that they've just kept on. And so it's remarkable. It should be fun to watch them. Yeah, it should be fun to watch them play Dallas tonight.

Everybody got all excited yesterday about the Knicks story that James Dolan might sell them and at least would listen. and that number five billion was throwing around and I was like, oh my God, five billion. I think we both agree the world would be a much better place. The NBA would be a much better place if somehow, some way there was someone that would come up with the money and get that team away from James Dolan because poor management has befilled them for many, many a year now. I mean, it might not be great for the rest of the league, honestly, if they had somebody that was a great owner. in New York. But as I said last week, New York deserves, right?

Like, I mean, this is, they paid quite the price for their fandom by being owned by James Dolan. So at least a little bit of adrenaline shot into many a Knicks fan yesterday when the idea was even floated that he might come off of that team, right?

Yeah, I think James Dolan can help his cause if he learns from himself. And he runs the Knicks the same way he runs the New York Range. just don't do anything except open up your checkbooks because he's already proven that he's willing to pay that's one good thing about james dolent unlike the all owners he's willing to pay and that's something some fanbacers are never going to have they're just never going to have a team or an owner that's willing to pay the luxury tax james dolan is that's a good thing but now he just needs to learn

from himself and just step back don't say anything don't do anything don't try to change and muddle with what the front office is doing. And then maybe things will be good. Last thing, because this may be the only opportunity that you get, and certainly I will not even get to talk to you until after Christmas time. Kevin, they are seven and 24, but your beloved bright future sons have rattled off three monster wins in a row. It may be the only opportunity you get the entire season.

to brag and talk up your bright future sons. The floor is yours. You know, Chris, I feel like this is at the end of around the horn where when you get an opportunity just to say whatever you want to say, I would never pass up an opportunity to talk up the bright future sons. I've been on that bandwagon for over two seasons now. And whether they're winning or losing games, I'm always going to feel like this team has a bright future

because when you look at Devin Booker at only 22 years old, when you look at how far he's come since Kentucky, Chris, the playmaking improvements, changing pace in the pick and roll, scoring from all levels of the floor, he's amazing.

DeAndre Aiton, his scoring efficiency is tremendous. He's gotten better every month on defense. He still has major flaws, still falls asleep sometimes. But those two guys, Aiton and Booker, they're one of the most impressive

of young tandoms in the league, Chris. And with those two guys, now it's just about finding the right surrounding pieces. And they have some good ones in McHale Bridges, T.J. Warren, the Anthony Melton, already, man. They're making progress. The bright future sons, they're coming.

That was beautiful. They suck. Cap space assets coming up. More to come, Chris. Eternal. Eternal. Eternal cap space. And eternal losing.

eternal caps face, yes, every year. Eternal Caps face. They're the only ones. Until they give it a Chandler Parsons like the Memphis Grizzlies. Oh, yeah. Hey, listen, I know this. The Grizzlies have 16 wins. The Suns have seven.

And you guys have Jaron Jackson. Another great young rookie. We do have Jaron Jackson and Javon Carter. Javon Carter. Boy, he's fun. All right. We are a week away from Christmas, Kevin. Did you ask for anything for Christmas?

Nope. Nothing. You didn't ask for one thing. Somebody didn't reach it out to you and say, hey, Kevin, what do you want for Christmas? Your parents didn't say, hey, what should we get you for Christmas? I don't know what I want. There's nothing really. I mean, specifically, I mean, clothes would be great.

Like, new underwear, new socks, nothing special. New underwear and new socks. Yeah. Like, you know, some shirts could be cool or, you know, but nothing extraordinary. Why? How much you do you have anything cool in mind? No, I owe a range finder. Like, you know, like one of those golf rangefinders.

Because the midlife crisis led me to joining a golf course last year. So now once I can't do anything else, I did like every other old guy and just decided, all right, I'm going to try to get awesome at golf. And so I needed a rangefinder so I can see exactly how far the pin is, even though. Is that golf place you like? Top golf. Top golf, right? That's the one that me and Titus and Tate went to in a, and you stayed in the hotel because you said it was a hurricane outside.

And we should have heated your warning, honestly, because it in fact was a hurricane outside for the first time possibly in Las Vegas history while we were there for Summer League. They're actually building one of those, a top golf in Los Angeles. I think it's going to be in El Segundo, which is, I believe, near the Lakers practice facility. I'm still figuring out where things are in L.A., but I know they're building a top golf.

The Lakers moved their practice facility, I believe, from El Segundo, but I have been to their old practice facility, which is actually rather spectacular. It's actually one of the few places I've been because I went and watched their G-League team play at the time. And there's like a bunch of, there's like two or three ice rinks in it. and then there's a huge basketball court, which was their practice facility, and they have all the banners hanging up in it. Well, I thought they had moved, but I guess they've just moved to a new place. Isaac tells me that they are now still in El Sago, but in a different facility than the one I saw with all the ice rinks and everything, which was rather cool. And I left my wallet there in El Sago, which I'm very proud to get this in, because you have made a million, music references over the course of the last few years that we've been doing this together,

of which I have not caught, and then people on Twitter bring it up to me, and I'm like, oh, I didn't even know he was making a music reference. But there, because of my age versus the age of both you and Isaac, I am able to say I left my wallet in El Segundo, and you have no idea what I am talking about. Yeah, it's a tribe called Quest. I'm not a dummy, Chris. And I know that you are very familiar with the Tribe Call Quest catalog. That's going to do it for today. Kevin, I hope you have an unbelievable Christmas. I mean that.

And I will talk to you right after all those Christmas Day games. You too, Chris. I'm looking forward to it. December 26th. That's our next show. Looking forward to it. It's our next show. Thanks to everybody out there that is listening.

Hope everybody has an unbelievable holiday season. If you get a chance, head over to iTunes and give us a rating and review. Five stars. It really helps. And we will talk to you next week. Eddie