The Ringer NBA Show - Trade Deadline Instant Reactions | Group Chat

Episode Date: February 9, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos were live on our new Ringer NBA Youtube Channel to recap the NBA trade deadline. They discuss the teams that did nothing at the deadline, including the Lakers, the depth pieces that the Celtics, Knicks, and Mavs added, and all the other deals from trade deadline day. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There are a lot of quarterbacks in the NFL draft this year. My name is Ben Solac and I host the Ringer NFL Draft Show with Danny Kelly, Danny Hypatts, and Craig Horlebeck. We cover trades, free agency, and the draft, which is, yeah, obviously. We'll tell you about everything, which includes which quarterbacks are good, which quarterbacks are bad, and which quarterbacks are just Kirk Cousins. That is the Ringer NFL Draft Show. Search the Ringer NFL Draft Show on Spotify. Hello and welcome to this trade deadline extravaganza edition of Group Chat. I am Justin Barrier and joining me live and in

color big was we got rob mahoney flew down here he heard that the deadline action was happening he wanted to be right into the nervous system of this podcast i heard a rumor gordon heyward might be traded yeah and i wasn't about to miss it just that's true so we got a lot of action today not sure it was the action that we expected yeah was are you surprised that a lot of the things that we've been talking about we've been talking about the bulls for god damn near two months they didn't anything, no Warriors trade, no Hawks trade, no Lakers trade. Are you surprised at all? Yeah, I'm pretty surprised, especially with the Hawks and the Bulls, because their guys have been so prominently involved in most of the trade rumors the whole year. I would say going back

to the summer even. And so, yeah, those are the most surprising, especially when you consider Quinn Snyder's like a big shot over there and things haven't gone great so far this season. a little surprised that both them and the Bulls haven't done anything to change the direction of what feels like two very rudderless situations. But I think both of those teams you can feel a lack of

urgency to necessarily do exactly that. Alex Caruso, there's going to be a market for him going forward. Dejante Murray, there's going to be teams that are interested in him. I'm almost more surprised by the Lakers. I thought the Dejante Murray stuff might be a little out of reach based on where the conversations were, but

you had to imagine they were going to do something. and to have basically a mum deadline from a team that needs so much right now is shocking to say the least. I get it for the seller's perspective. If you're not getting the deals that you want. If you're the Hawks, if you're the Bulls, wait till the summer. If you're the Raptors with Bruce Brown. Yes.

Some of these pick encumbrances all of a sudden teams like the Lakers have more draft capital to trade for there. Maybe the play them off other teams and whatnot. But the Lakers, as you mentioned, they're the same team that they were going into the deadline. So I guess it's dealer we trust, Was. I think if you're the Lakers, you got to sometimes feel like there's a bit of a Lakers tax on trades. We're like, all we heard for years was that Buddy Hill is going to take two first to get Buddy Healed.

And now it's just like scraps and as Justin reminded me three seconds, right? And so if you're the Lakers and they did get burned on the Westbrook deal, I think they felt like they... I mean, they burn themselves on the Westbrook deal. But I think they feel like they fell to some internal pressure to do the deal, and they made a terrible deal. And from what you hear is that they're very conscious now after the Westbrook deal about not making a horrible deal. Yeah. And so if they're shook. Or they're smart or battle tested or battle-hardened. And so if they felt like they couldn't get something reasonable, you know, at a reasonable price, I should say, then, you know,

We shouldn't be too surprised. And then once you see all the Hemming and Haar and LeBron is done in public, it's obvious that the posture from management has been like, we're not in a rush to do anything drastic here. We remember the last time we did this and it didn't turn out so well for us. I don't know. I mean, maybe the ultimate Lakers trade is not playing Tori and Prince so much. That's the trade that they probably should have been making a long time ago.

But maybe we're getting there slowly but surely. Listen, I think the conversation had been gaining steam that maybe Murray isn't as much of an upgrade on the way that D. Lo has been playing of late. Now, D. Lo might be the streakiest player in NBA history, but we saw him pick it up last year around this time. And so I could see if you're like, well, if it's Murray or if it's Donovan Mitchell, if it's some other person down the road, then it makes a little bit more sense. But, so the Lakers don't do anything. Also, the Warriors don't do anything. I think that was a little bit more predictable.

Sure. I think between Wiggins playing well with their core guys of late and Jonathan Cuminga obviously taking off in the way he has, I'm not saying either of those guys is going to fix everything that's going on with Golden State, but they've been playing well enough where just making some lateral move or some deal just to make a deal probably wouldn't have helped them very much. There isn't a huge market for Clay at this point. Hopefully they'll get Chris Paul back at some stage in this season and he can make a

meaningful impact on the rotation. Absolutely. So I think the Warriors just didn't have great options. And the Lakers had more urgency to make a deal. Also didn't have great options. And I don't know. I'm still just kind of a little flummox by what they're doing. I'm still,

I still feel like there's a pretty good team deep down. In all of us. In the guys that are, that remained. Like, I feel like. With the Warriors. No, the Lakers. Oh, yeah.

They have to be better than what they've shown because it's been so bad. And again, this group. group went to the conference finals. I know some people might joke and say they got swept so that they actually show up to the conference finals. The most competitive sweep in NBA history, as I've been told. But I still think they can be better than what they've shown with these guys. But yeah, you've got to be at least a little surprise that nothing happened given how this season is going. Well, Justin, where do we want to go with the trades that actually were made? I think there's only one place. And that's to Wozni's hometown of New York City. Go New York. Go New York.

New York, go. I was expecting that. So the Knicks loading up. They got Boyan Bogdanovich, Alec Berks from the Pistons. Bring Alec Berg's home. He has a lot of homes.

At this point. Quentin Grimes is going to the Pistons. Evan Fornier, hopefully to play basketball for the first time and maybe three years. Malachi Flynn. Ryan Archad Diakano,

so the Villanova party breaks up slowly. Two second round picks. What do you think about the deal for the Knicks? Unsurprisingly, I absolutely love it. I love the idea of the team like the Knicks who have flirted with like the top three seed in the East

just decided we're just going to load up. We're going to add more firepower to what we're doing. And obviously, bogey as a shooter is something they desperately need. Even in the best of times, this is not, you know, exactly the seven seconds or less suns in terms of three-point shot creation. And so I'm excited for how seamlessly

bogey fits into what they do. And Alec Berks, we've talked about the Knicks needing more punch, especially at the guard position outside of what Brunson is doing. And so it's just a no-brainer at both spots to me. Well, especially how they've looked lately when Brunson is getting trapped or pressured without Julius Randall, without OG in some of those games. There's been a lot on his shoulders. And you have to think in high-profile playoff series,

Brunson's going to have to do a lot. And so the more outlets you give him, the more guys you give him like Berks. And we've been talking about the Knicks needing another ball handler off the bench, someone to relieve some of that pressure. I don't think we had gotten around to the idea that they could get a ball handler like Burks and a big score and creator and shooter like Boehan Bogdanovich too. And neither of them are perfect players. But I think between them, getting that off the bench is pretty huge for New York.

A lot of Burke's optimism coming from this side of this beautiful set. I've been in the take from Berks since the Utah. days. And I think his time with Tibbs in the previous Nick Stink, he was really good. Obviously, there's been times in Detroit where it wasn't fantastic, but I think that context is so much different than

what he's going to be playing around in New York. And I just, I really believe in the efficacy of this deal, honestly. Well, especially watching New York's bench, I was just pleading for a guy who could dribble. And Alec Berks is going to take some wild shots. He's going to get killed defensively in some matchups.

That you can handle and he can create and he's going to have games where he goes off a little bit. Maybe. I think the Sixers have said the same thing.

The Warriors have said the same thing. Going back to the jazz, people have said the same thing. It's a lot of optimism in Alec Berks. We'll see about that. I think Boyan flots it nicely.

So if everybody's healthy and available, which they haven't been of late, which is probably a big consideration here, they just need to make it, perhaps to the two seed even. If you look at the east, the standards are getting crunched by the day.

So ideal starting five in New York. Brunson, probably bogey at the two, right? He can't play the two. Okay. No. No. So he's coming off the bench? I think he's coming off the bench.

That would be my assumption. So DiVenzo still starting? Absolutely. Randall and Anobi and Artinstein. Yeah. Future All-Star. Pending Mitchell Robinson. And Mitch is coming back.

And then what I like about the bogey deal as well is it affords some line of versatility when you want to go small, perhaps play Julius Randall at the five and bogey at the four. Like that's a small line. up where you position the Brunson and Randall picking rolls around some decent shooting. Like, this stuff makes sense. A lot of guys. The Knicks makes sense. It's like, look, the fake like, you know, la familiar.

Oh, we talk to the media once a year. Oh, we're this secretive order that's been the Leon Rose front office. Like, that stuff gets on my nerves a little bit, but you can't front on how much sense and the patience that's gone into making this roster. And I think this is just another move that makes so much sense. It's so logical. It's so different than two decades of Nick's roster construction. That alone gets me excited for this, honestly.

Competence gets me going, Rob. As it should. But forget two decades. Like, even thinking a couple months ago and how small this Knicks team was on the wings and even at the forward spots, to go from that to now you have OG. a three who can legitimately guard fives. You have boe-ion, a guy who is at least feisty and competitive. It was a LeBron stopper.

Okay, we're not doing that. You guys forget about this? You guys are beginning about 2018 already. People should forget about that. But he's a much bigger presence than playing Josh Hart undersized at the four, which is what the Knicks were doing in some of their lineup. So having that size, I think, is going to be really meaningful for them,

especially when you think about the East, as far as like the second team behind the Celtics is as open as it's been all year. Joel and Bid out for an unforeseen amount of time. The Bucks have a lot to figure out. The Cavaliers are on the come up, but I think we're still waiting to see what they do in the playoffs and their ability to prove themselves in that

setting. So if you're the Knicks, you're thinking about how do we met, not only how deep of a run can we make, but how do we match up with Boston? And what you need are bigger wings to be able to do that. So on the one hand, the Knicks no longer have any of the players they've drafted in the first round. So it is a return to form

of the Knicks. One way, on the other hand, they did not give up any first round picks in order to execute this move. I mean, Quentin Grimes was a recent first round pick. I actually think that's a pretty good pick up. RIPTA Quentin Grimes. Yes, but... I mean, he's just living in Detroit. He hasn't left us. Well... So might say that's the same thing.

Another country. They still have the capital to go out and do the big splash move. So somehow they've managed to thread the needle between the two extremes where they have the potential to go hit a home run down the road if this doesn't actually work out if there is a ceiling to that.

I think some people might be disappointed with the overall slate of moves that were made today, but it's been a lot of that of teams that are eyeing future like cap space or future flexibility and making moves that allow them to accommodate in the meantime. Beautiful segue. So I'm here for a lot of supplemental playmaking from you lately, and I just want to say that I appreciate it. I recognize it. I'm just trying to move the ball. It's great. So the Sixers, they made a lot of moves, one of which was to add, and then all of a sudden they subtracted a bunch. So they get Buddy healed in the there for Marcus Morris, Furcon Corkmaz, who I think was one of the longest 10 years, six years.

Next to that was his trade request, which was also among the longest 10 years sixers. Absolutely. He finally gets his wish 10 years and multiple different hairstyle and beards down the road. Three seconds it took as Wad was, Waz was alluding to there. But on the back of that, they also dumped Daniel House. They traded Pat Bev to the bucks. and at the buzzer they traded Jaden Springer

to the Celtics. So Rob, is this an ad or is this a subtract? What's going on here? I think it's still an ad ultimately in terms of actual rotation, minutes, and meeting. Jaden Springer,

I think interesting young player. I think he's a guy who us blogger types love to be excited about. Love him. And certainly a team like the Celtics would be wise to bet on someone like that.

See what he can give you. Maybe he gives you an energy and something different in a playoff run that you don't otherwise have. He was getting in, to Steph the other night. He can do that. Yeah. I think the energy he brings defensively

is really nice. But ultimately, in a series, are you playing him over Nick Batum? Are you playing him over the veteran wings? Are you playing him over DeAnthony Melton who offers a bit of the same thing? And that's where I think we find the Sixers. What they got was a shooter they didn't have in Buddy Heald, a kind of

knocked down guy. And what they gave up, I think are things that are mostly expendable for them right now. Yeah, and Buddy Heald is, and this is a future movement in since that Buddy Heald is a guy, as we know, Because whenever his contract is up, the world must know that Buddy Heel needs a new deal. So obviously, they're going to work out a deal with Buddy Healed, which, you know, is an important move. They shore up their two-guards spot.

Obviously, you can always use more shooting and especially the type of shooting that Buddy Hill provides the sort of movement shooting as well as the spot-up stuff that he does. Has a, you know, a baby amount of put the ball on the deck game. But I think he's going to work very well around what Joe L. and B's trying to do when he comes back. So, you know, I like to move in that sense for sure. And, you know, look, they're clearly trying to build a team that can win now. They're trying to show Joel that we care about winning. And so, you know, getting off of the Jaden Springer does not necessarily broadcast that they're not.

And so, you know, I understand the move. And I think Buddy Heal, this is a nice, you know, sort of like nice little. piece to get even if it's not a home run. I mean, Buddy is a capital S shooter. I wanted to call him a consolation prize. That's what I got. Tough look for Buddy. I will say if I could register a little bit of concern about Buddy's fit there.

Part of what made him valuable to the Pacers is the way they move and the way he would set screens or go screens for Tyrese Halliburton and it would mess up defenses. When Joel Embed is out there, Buddy Heald is going to be parked. He's going to be standing still. Oh, he'll be moving, but nobody else is moving. Maybe, but I don't even think he's going to be moving around that much. Like so much of the Pacers games, or sorry, the Sixers games about maintaining that spacing around one of the most dominant scores that we've ever seen. Totally justified.

But if we're being real about what Buddy has been this season, it's not his best shooting year. He hasn't been super impressive or super consistent in terms of just knocking down shots. And if you're taking away the gravity of his movement, then it's all coming down to is Buddy hitting shots tonight. And that's a bit more of a hard. It's a harder ebb and flow than you might want. And that's before we get to the defensive concerns if you're going to play him with Maxi. I assume he's there to ultimately be a bench shooter. Maybe you play him, some with Maxie, some not.

Maybe they run a little bit and play a little faster when Joel is off the court and you have more of a small ball lineup. Maybe based around Paul Reed, for instance. Who knows? You don't have to twist my arm. But the big thing with Buddy, as was mentioned, free agent in the off season. Jason Springer, one of the precious few contracts that Daryl has currently on the books for next season. So it's Joelle.

It's Paul Reed who has a non-guarantee. And as far as I know, there's a lot of things going on here. That's it. Now, why would they do that, Justin? The answer is obvious. But it's also not because as we've seen, free agency typically is not the route to getting guys. And like, I don't even know who the next guy is.

Obviously, things change in the NBA six months from now. Like, the entire NBA could be up. LeBron James has a player option. I've heard about it. In the summer, eye emojis all over the place. I mean, I still see the next move, is all I'm saying. I mean, these moves aren't always telegraphed, right? Like, who could have saw Dame going to the bucks last summer?

It's not always obvious what the next move is. But again, when you have that much cap space, you have the flexibility to do things that aren't just trade for some, I mean, excuse me, sign, some superstar type. you could trade for somebody into that cap space. And increasingly we've seen that. It's not straight up signings. It's trade into space. It's trade into spaces.

So they've left themselves open to that opportunity. So in addition to this, I think the expectation based around the Daniel House dump is that they'll also That's rude. The Daniel House dump. I think it was the sauce as you put on that.

I'm just imagining a toilet bowl next to Daniel House's face. extremely uncalled for it's a destitute house but he did get waived immediately after getting trained so so it was a dump it was a dumb uh Kyle Lowry they might sign on the buyout market this presumably ducts them under the second luxury attack apron they then can go out and play the buyout market Lowry Philly native another Nova guy that I guess keeping him away from New York that's crucial at this point he's probably the biggest turf war that they could wage at this point where do you want to go next do you want to go to Dallas let's do it yeah all right so two deals

for Dallas. They trade for PJ Washington from Charlotte. They also trade for Daniel Gafford from the Wizards. They send out Grant Williams whom they just signed over the offseason and gave up some picks for that. Seth Curry, a top two protected first

round pick in 2027. That goes to Charlotte. And they also send out Rashon Holmes and a 2024 protected first where they had to do some funny money math in order to get that first from OKC to then reroute it to who is it?

It would be DC at that point. Yeah. Bit of a pyramid scheme thing happening there. Creating a future swap for a current first to make this deal happen. They got big.

Every deal of pyramid scheme. It's getting really confusing. Especially when it involves draft picks and like so many freaking teams have future draft picks out. Like it becomes this, oh, we're switching the swap with this guy

and we got permission to wave the protection and blah blah, blah. It's like... At the point at which we're swapping, we're doing second round swaps. We have a problem.

Yeah. Like we need to admit to ourselves as a community that we have a problem. Speaking of which, I need to apologize to somebody. Wow. And that is our dear beloved producer Isaiah Blakely,

who is, as we know, a big Celtics fan. And when they got rid of Grant Williams and someone's like, hey, I don't know, man. Grant Williams, he's a guy and he's a player. I thought so too.

And Grant Williams comes out this year and he's shooting like 55% from three. He's doing his Grant Williams things on defense. And I'm like, Zay, I don't know. This Grant Williams guy, he's a guy. And then he's freaking traded at the death line. He's been terrible since the start of the season.

Rough few months for him. It's been really bad. And yeah, Celtics fans are like we told you so. And I would like to apologize to Zay because I really believe in this Grant Williams thing, the Mavericks. But that's the type of whiplash that's going on with Dallas, who they bring him in is one of the few big prizes of the offseason. And they got other guys in there.

Lively is probably the biggest one. But they make the splash and all of a sudden they're hitting the eject button that soon just to load up in the front court for, I mean, they're in the middle of the mix here for the playoffs. But like, you know, they still have some work to do to even get into the big boy playoffs and stay there. Well, I think most of the work they need to do and most of the help that they're going to get is their actual guys that they've already had being healthy for basically the first time all season. Kairie has missed a ton of games. And even aside from that, they've barely played any game. where they haven't been out two or three guys. It's been just kind of staggered, you know,

Dante Exa misses some time. Luca misses some time. Lively misses some time. They had multiple bigs out with broken noses at the same time. At the point where that's the way your season's going, at some point you have to account for the fact that injury is just a big part of what's making you inconsistent and what's suppressing you in the standings. And in terms of what Dallas needed,

getting two good bigs, I think is a nice bit of business. I really like Daniel Gafford. I really like what he brings, especially as a backup big behind Lively. Him versus Roshan Holmes is a no-brainer. I think if you want to quibble with what Dallas has done here, it would be the chain of transactions that has led us to PJ Washington, which if you want to trace it out, to execute the Grant Williams signed and trade in the first place,

and now into this deal, you're talking a 2027 first, a 2030 swap, two second round picks and Seth Curry to get PJ Washington. A guy who we like, that's a lot for PJ Washington. Yep. Yeah, he's been a theoretical. player who matters for so long because his obvious physical gifts are so tantalizing as far as, you know, he could be a pick and roll partner with Luca.

We know he loves a lob guy. He can be that kind of lob guy. He's shown some pick and pop ability throughout stretches of his career, but he's been pretty inconsistent. And if he was that sick, Charlotte would have been much better and therefore he wouldn't be traded, right? So a lot of what he's going to bring to this team is theoretical. I just think this is just, man, Grant Williams, just tough.

Tough. That's the takeaway. Grant Williams. Like the excitement around bringing this guy in. I think everybody universally thought this was a great deal. You know, the type of defensive player that you bring around Luca. And he made enough wide open shots in the postseason that you could be like, you know what? He's right at the Mendoza line of guys that you can't just leave completely wide open in every single playoff series.

And so for them to get off of him when he was so. obviously a luca fit. You know, it's just PJ Washington steps right into that. And now it's his turn to prove that he's a great luca fit. Well, especially thinking about the Mavs trying to shore up their defense, PJ Washington as a rotating backline guy, that's nice. Here's the reality. He's like, Tim Hardaway Jr. is basically leading the league in charges taken right now.

That's not good. That's not where you want to be. That means too many blowbys. That means the guy who's rotating over is not in a position to actually block shots or impact them other than drawing charges. And so credit to Tim Hardaway for taking the hits, but the fact that he's in a position to take the hits was not a good situation for Dallas.

PJ probably starts for them at the four, you assume? I think it depends on what they want to do with Derek Jones Jr. Just because he's kind of been a four but guarded wings, and that's been important for them. And honestly, some of Luca's best defense this season has been guarding Biggs and that ability to flex around. Look, he's a big boy. He said he told us all in the media.

He has some of the strongest legs in the league. and who are we to disagree. But Gafford presumably comes off the bench. Yes, I think so. Lively is way too good. It's a lot of trade in firsts for backups. And now on the one hand, it does seem like the league is trending toward a place

where you can't just bowl over the competition with the big three and nothing else at this point, right? And so it makes sense for a team, especially like Dallas, who we mentioned has to climb. I think they're eighth in the West right now. But we're seeing a lot of teams just like loading up at the expense of the future.

So there is probably going to be a price to pay down the road. I guess if the whole goal is to keep Luca as happy as possible, then it shouldn't matter as much. But that is kind of the bargain. Well, in that case, you're just trading a future swap for Gafford, right? So it's not as painful. Well, didn't they trade a... Wait, they traded a first for a swap.

They traded a swap for a first. Okay, whatever. Who cares? Oh, my God. I love this. I love this swap. Discourse is the best. Well, this is a good segue

to the Raptors who swaps some swaps. They swap some players who are on contracts who are expiring. They also added. They also subtracted. So this is in totality, I believe, what the Raptors did. They kept on to Bruce Brown, despite seeming like he was going to

be one of the big pieces moved at the trade deadline, has a team option for next year who will be functionally an expiring contract, and thus maybe we just roll this over again. Okay. So they add Kelly O'Linnick and Akbae Abaji. I probably But I got Abaji right.

You butcher it. You but I got Abaji right. Yeah. I just wrote down to Bajie. They sent away Otto Porter Jr. Kyra Lewis, got that one right. 2024 first round pick,

which seemed to be an awful first. So it was a very bad first. It's one that has to go through three or four teams and then you maybe get the right for it if you just make the right blood sacrifice. Well, and we should note that the Dallas pick that they all, ultimately traded in the Gafford deal seems similar.

It's either going to be, I think, the Clippers or the Thunders first this year, which both those teams are blowing it out. So on top of that, they also traded away Dennis Schroeder and Thad Young for what seems like Spencer Dinwiddie, who might even get waived. I think is getting waived. Is getting waived because he has a bonus coming up, which is brutal. And I don't think it would pass muster for most unions. Russell-Wilson-S-S-S-S-1-tier.

File a grievance out there on behalf of Spencer Dinwiddie. Right. So on the one hand, they add Olinick and Abaji. Yeah. Close enough. Yeah, you're good. But they are getting rid of Schroeder and Young. Schroeder was like a bench player who started sometimes.

Yeah. A little redundant in the Emanuel Quickly world. Yeah. Yes. But still very good. Good player. I think Maasai has just basically been super stubborn since 2019 in his, in his steadfastness of,

I'm not tearing this down at the studs. I can fix this back up without ever hitting genuine rock bottom. And he seems to be like, I'm sticking to that path. And that's what the Olenic deal and some of this other stuff feels like to me. It's like we're never going to be

the kind of team who starts all the way from the bottom and tries to start over. We're not going to put ourselves in a position to be a Pistons or, you know, some of these Orlando magic teams that we've seen in years past. We're going to try to do this on a quote-unquote fly.

And I think that's what these deals are saying. Like, they just don't want to be completely sucky. And, you know, part of me respects that. Like, why shouldn't you put on a decent product for the people that show up to watch this team every night? And I think the Abaji part of that deal symbolizes that. Basically, what they've done is trade a late first for a guy who's already in the league, an older young player, if you'll kind of accept the timeline in terms of

he was drafted. Still has a lot to prove, but he's going to be further along than someone you're going to draft at 29. Right. That said, I can't think of a young prospect

I'm more lukewarm on than Oshai Abaji. He hasn't been good this year. He can kind of shoot, he can kind of dribble, he can kind of guard, but what are you really hanging your hat on with a player like that?

And I think what you're hoping for is some kind of breakout. You're hoping for some kind of development. You're hoping for something in his game to crystallize because he has some useful tools. I just don't know necessarily what the Raptors are hoping for with a player like that. I think the Olenic part of it is more interesting to me because on the one hand, once again,

they're trading for another white center at the deadline. The Yakopurtle annual tradition. At this point it's annual. Yeah, we'll see about next year. He is an unrestricted free agent this offseason. A lot of teams are circling him as potentially like a guy that they could add to their playoff push. The Raptors are not pushing for much these days except for maybe losses. they could get down into the lottery mix there.

I don't hate it for this reason. They're almost like getting ahead of his free agency in order to bring him back. And they didn't really pay much for both him and Abaji, right? Ultimately, it's not a ton. It's like a poor first, which might be helpful for Utah, but that's probably like the ninth player

they're going to pick a next year's draft at this point. And so the cost wasn't much to maybe just get him into the system if you plan on resigning him over the offseason. Yeah. I think the issue with them and to an extent Detroit, and really when you think about any of these kind of young, up-and-coming or developing teams who are making these deals at the deadline, is who is the guy you're bringing in who's really going to be a difference maker for you,

a guy who's going to be in your team's uniform for four or five years at least, someone's going to be a meaningful part of your core. And I don't know what drawing of the Raptor's core would suggest that Abaji is like, this is one of our guys. I think he's a guy. I think he's a perfectly viable play. and prospect to take a chance on, but on a team that already is trying to figure out

how do we triangulate RJ Barrett and Scotty Barnes and Emmanuel quickly with everything we already had going. I have a hard time figuring out what the spot for him is there. So my problem with the Raptors, though, and this is going to be funny to say, but like I don't think they're in a position to be like

where's our Fred Van Vleet, like the Rockets did? Where's our Dylan Brooks? No. I think Detroit can kind of even more credibly say that, even though they've been worse, be like, you know what, let's go out and get the kind of veteran that compliments these young guys who we deeply believe in. The Raptors are just kind of like, we have some pretty cool young guys.

Scotty Barnes seems like a real live player. Like, RJ Barrettin quickly, RJ, I think we've kind of seen. Quickly, he's been better for the rappers, though. He's been better for them, for sure. And quickly, I think, you know, it's still to be determined. I guess they're just going to be like, yo, let's run out that young. core after another off season of improvement

and see where we go from there. I just want the upside play. If these are the moves that are on the board, why are you making this deal for Oshai Abaji when you could have gotten Jaden Springer for a second? Well, we know the answer to that. Scotty Barnes is the next Kauai. Come on.

Then take two Kauai's. You know? Where do you want to go next? Should we go to the Pistons because we're kind of circling them? Let's do that, yeah. Probably the most fascinating team at the deadline. Maybe not for the best reasons. So we're just going to give you what happened over the past two days.

Yeah, the total net in and out. This does not include Mike Muscala. Doesn't include Gallo or livers. I'm sure I could just make up names and the people watching at home will probably just assume that that was an actual player. So here are the players that are coming in to Detroit. Quentin Grimes, Simone Fentechio, Jake Milton, Troy Brown, Malachi Flynn, Daniel House,

but he's getting waived. Evan Fornier, please God, let him play NBA minutes. Ryan Archie Diakino and three second round picks. Going out, Boyan Bogdanovich, Monty Morris, Alec Burks, and Kevin Knox. Also a 20-24 second. They're also waving Killian Hayes and Joe Harris. Somebody pour out a little bit for Killian Hayes.

All right, Pi. All right, P and send your condolences to our guy, Kevin, Kevin O'Connor. He is going through it today. So please keep KOC in your prayers because this is a deep loss fan. I'm looking at this total accounting, Justin. This is nuts.

Can I make the zag? I haven't even zigged. Okay, Zig first, and I'll zag. I'm mostly just non-plus. Again, if we're thinking about them from the perspective of who are the guys in this list of everyone who is now a piston, who's going to be anything for them. I think Simone Fontecchio is a player we like.

Yep. Gives them some size, gives him some shooting, Shore, all on board. Quentin Grimes? I'm a Grimes guy. Love it. I'm a Grimes guy. Known Grimes guy.

Yeah. Wasney Lambray. Whatever you liked about Killian Hayes, you're going to like more in Quentin Grimes. And I say that in part because he's not going to try to dribble so much. So let's minimize the scale back. Can make an open shot. And he'll guard people. So he's exactly the kind of role player that you want around a Cade. And for that matter, around a Jaden Ivy, who's shown some good things this season.

He's got, he's got that burst. And maybe most importantly, we have. taken Killian Hayes out of Monty Williams's hands. He will no longer be a part of the Pistons rotation. And I would think that forces Jaden Ivy to be a more regular presence in the rotation. So here's the zag. I can't stand for anything that Detroit did up until yesterday. There's a lot of sunk costs here that we're just going to ignore.

We're going to shut the door on the burning trash fire. We're looking forward. Yes. We're on to the next trade for a second round pick and swap or whatever. I think a lot of the players they got back are just salary matching. If we're just focusing on what they're going to keep around long term, probably maybe even past this season, it's Grimes, it's Funtaccio, as you mentioned. The fit is way better than anything else that probably came before.

These are shooters with defensive upside. That's exactly what you need. They're young. I get the virtue. And it's like if you screwed up not getting rotation players in the draft, you got to use some assets to do that. You have to have draft ex. You've got to overpay guys to come in there. People aren't taking Detroit's money

in free agency too often unless you're a Jeremy Grant, someone who wants to prove themselves. So you have to do the work early. So Moni Fentecchio is a restricted free agent going into this off season. You could bring him back on a pretty decent deal in order to get him into the rotation. And so considering everything

that I just laid out there, I don't hate it because the guys they're going out there aren't going to be around when Kate Cunningham is looking to lead a playoff push as desperate and sad as it might be, like the next version is going to have those guys and not

Boyon, even though Boyon is the better player. That's the case. I'm just tired of these teams waiting too long with guys like Bowion. And the Raptors are maybe top of that list, right? Well, here's the thing, though. Detroit's like the waiting period, it probably stopped this season. Yes, it has been awful at times. But everyone was

waiting for Webanyama. That didn't work. And now here is the actual results from them. that. Like, this is where the check comes due. And this has been bad so far. And I wouldn't be surprised if everyone gets fired there. But, like, next season and beyond, we need to start coming up with a plan, but except for blind hope, is what I'm saying. But why would that check coming do affect holding onto Boyan Bogdanovich for a year and a half longer than you should have? Like, you could have done both things. Is Boyan helping much now? No, no, I'm not saying you

shouldn't trade him. He's saying they should have been. Did this. Yeah. But they just thought he was so sick. They waited so long that now what you're getting is, again, Quinn Grimes, the player we like, and some seconds. Sure. And that's okay, but I think you could have done better than that. I don't know if you could have, it depends on the deals that they were getting at the time. Yes.

And I actually don't mind waiting to hold him until the deadline because you need to win as many games. He's another one of those two Lakers' first guys, just like Buddy healed. It's the, the exact same thing where these guys didn't move last year.

And, you know, the idea was like, oh, we're putting this huge price tag on these dudes. And then reality finally set in. And so that's what happened. And I think... Great sympathies for the Lakers today. They have such a tough life. And I think, and I think to Detroit's credit, part of the thinking was that this guy is complimentary to our young guys.

And we want to put some NBA caliber players around our developmental type of pieces. And I understand why. why they were so steadfast. I mean, like, no, bogey has to be here. And, you know, some of it is posturing. Whenever you want to be trading from a position of strength where it's like, no, this guy is absolutely core to everything we want to do.

And then everybody's like, no, he's not. And so, you know, they traded him for something. I think it's kind of reasonable. Well, and maybe the ultimate bit of context with the Pistons is that this is a team that expected to be good this year. And that makes a lot of their moves. They lost 30 straight. No, they definitely.

They came into the season. Tom Gore's announced. We are expecting to be competitive. We are expecting to be good. We're expecting to challenge for something meaningful. I don't think your owner ever has a clear perspective on what's going to happen. Maybe it's not a clear perspective. But I think it's also, it's very similar to Tillman's phase two thing.

I think that was the sort of tag that Gors was taking. Like, no, we're taking the next step. Our young guys are ready to be playing with like real NBA guys. And so like this is the year. And it's just, you know, instead they lost 30 straight games. You know? It's close. He was close. He was close.

He was close. He was close at the mark with that. All right. Gordo? Oh, my God. Our guy. You guys have been waiting. He's going to the planes.

He's going to the prairie. Did we actualize this trade? Did we bring it to life? I feel like we've talked about Gordon Hayward to the Thunder before. Probably. He definitely fits a type there. Yeah. What type?

What type? is that. More passing. I'm not going to take that. More fundamental. You know, more hard nose grit bringing to the heartland. A lot of grit.

I mean, there just couldn't be a better Gordon Hayward home that didn't involve the Hoosier State. You know what I mean? And so I'm excited for the, and all jokes aside, and I get the caveat, if Gordon Hayward is healthy.

Yeah, he hasn't played since, I think, late 2023. He's going to provide the playman. and connectivity that this team is definitely lacking

outside of what Shay does. As much as we love Jalen Williams J-dub is he the J-dub? He's the J-dub. He's not really

you don't look to him for playmaking and passing and that kind of thing reading and stuff like that and so I think Gordon Hayward is just his know-how

is sorely needed if he can actually play. But this is like a low-stakes role for him I think it's probably good doesn't have to play a ton especially of regular season minutes. But if he can play in the postseason,

I think the Thunder just got themselves a hell of a Josh Giddy security blanket. For the games where teams are not guarding him, where his judgment or his vision aren't working, and there are those games. Now you have a guy who is better in that role than Giddy is. I like the fit, although I will say I think the Thunder's final odds

took a little bit of a dip here. Because they didn't go out and get a big. It doesn't seem like they were trying to target players who would really solve their issues for a playoff run. This just kind of like keeps things open. So maybe the other Jalen Williams, for instance, can rise into that role of being like the bench big that we throw against girthy centers.

So which I think is not bad, but it's mildly disappointing. It's disappointing for us as fans of this team, of watching this team anyway. But I think if you're OKC in their brain trust, it's like, why don't we watch our guys actually fail see what they fail at in the postseason and respond to that

instead of preempting this idea that like, oh, they're not going to be able to compete with size and girth and, you know, this and that. They want to go out and actually let them go out and fail. Yes. You know, let the kids go out and touch the stove and get burnt and then we'll deal with it afterwards. There's a lot of GM speak around teams like the Thunder

as to why they do or don't make moves. One bit of it I have bought, and I think we've seen, is Sam Presti has talked a lot about power of discovery in these sorts of situations. If you're a team that is getting ahead of the curve with that stuff, Shea doesn't become the player he is right now. J-dub does not become the player he is right now. And so they haven't even been in the playoffs yet.

Right. Let them get there, show you what they need, and you have all the resources you need to go and get it. For the record, Lou Dord has, but... He has. Davos Bertans... The first while, Thunder, Davos Bertans. The power of discovery?

I feel like this is like a TED Talk. I believe it. I believe it, man. I'm drinking that cool. I believe in the concept. Pull up a picture of Sam Presti right now. He looks like a guy who's giving a TED talk. That's true.

The clear glasses. Come on now. So they send away Trey Mann, Davis Bertan, two seconds. Vasily Meechich. That hurts. RIP. Meach. You'll be missed, especially around this podcast.

Our guy gave up stardom in Europe to play for the Hornets. It's a tough one. Tough. I don't like it. It's tough. But look, this is the reality of why guys like Mietchich are signed to the contracts they are. The Thunder don't have a lot of players on that kind of money they can actually move without it being a meaningful part of their team. And so part of the reason Mietch was on that deal is for exactly this sort of scenario.

And they're getting a guy who could hopefully help them in Hayward. And slowly but surely, like, the team is, the Thunder are going to have to get rid of some of these younger guys who aren't helping. That's just going to be the case. Like the nature of the roster, how it's constructed, all the freaking future young guys that they're still going to be bringing on every single year. At a certain point, they got to cycle out of some of these guys. And you guys said that, you know, a lot of teams don't have the draft equity and all of that.

They're going to be going to the thunder and the jazz to be like, hey, do you have some young guys that you don't feel like keeping anymore? Only bank in town. Yeah, exactly. Not even a bank. They could just be like the check cashing place who's going to charge you a pre-year. That's right. Meechis makes $7.7 million this year.

That's what I mean. That's he legitimate bread. Had the fifth highest contract on the Thunder team. Yep. Now Gordon Hayward, I imagine, is the highest paid thunder. Actually, Shane might be him by a little. You're right. The other thing about Hayward that we haven't really talked about is you're getting him for this season.

You're also getting his bird rights. And so if it works and you do want to bring him back, that's the kind of player they wouldn't have just been able to go out and get. Look at Rob, just being an agent for Gordon Hayward. They're getting him his next deal. Gordon Hayward does not need an agent. He doesn't need my help. He needs to get that love sponsorship immediately. Just see him out at your local Brahms, you know?

Oh, yeah. Other deals out here, the sons get Royce O'Neill. We called that one. Also get David Roddy for some reason. They send away three seconds and a pick swap. I don't think we've tracked that one down, Rob. Not just yet. Okay.

We'll get back to you. Keep you guys posted. I know you're on the edge of your seats at home. But you weren't a Royce O'Neill fan. He can't move his feet anymore. He's just slow-footed. He's a bit cement-footed. That's what it is for me.

These like 3-D, and again, it's not like they're going to go out and be like, you know what? Guard the very best perimeter guys. I think at this point, that's going to be Devin Booker's job, honestly, in the biggest moments for this team. He's going to be the one guarding Shay. He's going to be the one guarding Kauai, I mean, and I guess or Paul George in that instance. But he's going to make open shots, which I think will matter for this team. He's going to make an open shot. He'll make big shots.

He's played in a lot of playoff games, big moments. And, you know, whatever. You like that veteran sort of moxie, if you will. But as far as the D part of this, he's not that guy. He's not that guy. And he is yet another 6-4 guard on the first. Phoenix Suns. Like they're, they're just collecting guys who do more or less the same thing. And that's what's concerning to me is not, oh, you gave up Kada Bates Diab. It's not you gave up

Jordan Goodwin, who I think I had high hopes for, but hasn't really worked out for them. I would hope not a single person in the Sun's fandom said, not Kada Bates Diop. Somebody's been a hold now for Kada. Metu? Chamezi Metu. Metu? This is the thing. Yeah. It's the first thing Rob said. I actually do think they'll miss Metu a little bit. Rather than have another 6-4 guard. But to your point, it was about Royce O'Neill and his defense, this is the issue with being the kind of undersized but hard-nosed defender type.

You come into the league, you do pretty well doing that. And then you hit a point in your career where, oh, I'm not quite as athletic as I used to be. And I have nothing to make up for that. I don't have kind of the natural athleticism. I don't have the burst. I don't have the size. I'm just kind of a guy. And I think we're at that stage with Royce O'Neill.

And that's why when I'm thinking about, give up three second round picks for Royce O'Neill, I don't feel great. I don't feel great about that exchange irrelevant of the minimum guys they had to give up to make this possible. He's going to work on offense. When they plug and play him around what they're doing with their

big three, he's going to absolutely work in that respect. But are you ever playing him over Grayson Allen or Eric Gordon? And if you're not, where are the minutes coming from and why does this deal matter?

It might be matchups where he's bigger than those guys, not by much. He's a better. defender than Alan. Yes. Yes. And Alan is one of the best three-point

shooters in the league this season. I think they're a little too over-indexed on shooting and offense. If you could get a little bit more tilted in the other direction with an O'Neill, I think it makes some sense. With a guy who can't be completely ignored, right? That's the thing about, and I get it, we're damning with faint

praise here. Royce will know cannot completely be ignored in the way that a lot of teens would do, say, a Kogi, for instance. Right? Like, you can't treat him as that type of you know, shooter. But again, look, it's decent. It's not great.

Don't write home to your grandma about the day that Royce O'Neill got the phoenix. What move are you writing to your grandma about? What do you think she'd be interested in? Xavier Tillman? She'd big Xavier Tillman? Doug McDermott going back to the Pacers? She might. Dougie McBuckett in Hooserville.

That's exciting. Shout to everybody that's going to be at the live show. Hell yeah. In Indiana during All-Star weekend. And that's really exciting. But yeah, no, this deadline deal didn't provide a lot of that. No grandma quality here. I saw this floating around the internet.

They said this deadline was like waking up to a lump of coal on Christmas morning. Sorry, guys. It's not quite that bad. But it is overwhelming. I think we can agree the level of movement and the overall quality of them. Were you wellmed? I wasn't well. How well were you?

Yeah, that's true. How about winners and losers? Biggest winners? To me, it's got to be the New York mix. To me, I just think the way they're on a role and the way that they've improved upon something we could obviously point to being a weakness, meaning offensive firepower,

around Jalen Brunson. And, like, again, you can say what you want about how enthusiastic people have been about Bogdanovitch in the past. He's a bona fide shooter, score. He's versatile. They've just upgraded what they've done. They're on a heater.

There's no reason to feel, oh, I'm so scared of all the other teams ahead of them in the East. And so to me, they're just a clear winner. And again, like you said, most importantly, they haven't sacrificed their ability to do that superstar blockbuster deal in New York. So to me, that's the biggest deadline winner. They're probably the team that kind of fluctuated the most in terms of improving in a way that's going to be material to the postseason. But given that that's the case, I think the Celtics are a huge winner. Status quo is the winner. And the Celtics are not only the best team in the East.

And I think someone who, if you don't think they're going to win the conference, is because you're waiting to see if they fall apart, not waiting to see can the Knicks pull them apart. And what they did, they got Xavier Tillman, who that's a player who's, I think, pretty meaningful for them in some big matchups, especially. If you're thinking about who are the Celtics in the NBA finals against Nicola Yokic. And Bede comes back.

If Embed comes back, absolutely. even if you're thinking about the Bucks and like creating a wall against Janus, Tillman is a helpful player. Springer's more of a wild card. But I think Tillman is somebody who Chris Haps for Zengish insurance, Al Horford Insurance, a big that they needed. That's good to have. 100% agree with that.

And also because outside of the Knicks, did any other team really do much to change their situation? Are they any more threatening? The teams like the Bucks who waive or traded away Robin Lopez to move his contract. Pat Bavre. They got Pat Beverly. And in conjunction, they got an Apolli. from Damien Lillard about his previous comments to Pat Beverly.

So maybe that's enough. Everybody would want him on his team. It's beautiful, but they also aren't winning games these days. And I don't know if Pat Bev is really going to do a ton there to help that. It's a work in progress, Justin. Well, hopefully they could do that in the next month or so, because time is ticking for the bucks. One low-key thing I did like that we haven't really touched on that much is the wolves getting Montemortemores.

Yes. That's the kind of backup ball handler they've needed. I don't know if it's going to resolve everything that's going on with them in crunch time and some of these big games. I probably beat the Bulls the other night if they had Montemort. You know? They will benefit from his stability, for sure. So that's a nice little pickup.

Yeah, like, you know, I've fluctuated in my enthusiasm for McLaughlin minutes in the past. It's clear. I'm proud of you. It's clear he's not that guy. He's not that guy. Which team do you think took the biggest step forward as a result of this? It's the Knicks, isn't it? Well, I think in terms of wins, maybe not.

I wonder if the Mavs, for instance, they will change their future the most as a result of this deadline. They just needed front court help so evidently. Where I worry is they've brought in two more bigs who aren't great rebounders. And that's a team that really needs defensive rebounding. What it might do is just push them into playing big more often.

Like PJ Washington as a four versus Derek Jones Jr. as a four, that could be a meaningful backline defensive upgrade just because Jones is mostly guarding point of attack, but also a meaningful rebounding upgrade just by playing bigger lineups in general. Kings right in front of them didn't do anything. Well, they got Robin Lopez briefly.

Briefly, they said hello to them. He did some stupid thing with their mascot and moved them along. Look, the Kings tried. Obviously, they was in on the Pascal C. Akum's sweet stakes, and they tried and they couldn't get something workable. And so they stood pat. I think, you know, banking on the internal improvement of guys like Kegan Murray

and just the continued excellence of DeAaron Fox. I don't think that's the most horrible thing to bank on. Pells also in front of them didn't do anything. Clippers didn't send PJ Tucker away. Unfortunately, I guess, for whoever has to move his shoes, Denver Nuggets, didn't do anything for their bench. So a lot of people stayed Pat here outside of some of the teams that we were expecting. So for that reason, I kind of like what the Sons did.

Because unlike the Bucks who were boxed in by not having the draft assets, at least they went and did something. Like, Sons are playing reasonably well. If they just have a top eight at this point, they're going to do some damage in the playoffs. Against a team, for instance, like the Thunder or one of these inexperienced teams, I could see them having the edge.

Maybe not because of Royce O'Neill, but that helps them marginal. Does it? I think so. They did something, but did they do something? They'd made their big moves in the offseason. They got in their work early, okay? All right.

All right, I think that's it. I think that's the deadline. Every which way, we did it. I'm happy to never talk about Dejante Murray for the rest of this season. I'm not going to lie. Well, we have the off season now. Well, the off season will be the off season. I'm just saying for this season, we can completely ignore the Hawks and the Bulls

and these teams that had these guys that we were like, oh, these trade candidates being the only reason we found them to be relevant. So I'm happy for that. Well, I got bad news. Like two of those teams are going to make the play in. Oh, yeah. We're going to have to keep talking about them in some capacity. That's fair.

I do think that is kind of the big takeaway from the deadline, though, outside of the teams that help themselves for the playoff push, it's that a lot of teams save their powder in order to do something bigger down the road. Like, the Lakers offseason is going to feel like a Lakers offseason this summer, especially if LeBron, like, he gets to his Twitter accounts. Yeah. Good Lord. All right.

That is it for us. Thank you to these fine gentlemen for joining me in this beautiful Spotify. studio. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to everyone helping us out in production to put this on the YouTube channel. Follow us, subscribe on the Ringers, MBA's YouTube channel, Ringer MBA.

You missed the most important thing. Thank you to everyone who watched the show live today. That's right. Thank you to launch this channel. I'm looking right now. We had 615 on the lot. What are you all doing at work? Okay, yeah. Like, subscribe, notification bell, all of that. I'm literally just liking and

subscribing right now. Juice the numbers. Just the numbers. All right. Yeah. We'll be back on Sunday as for usual. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you there.