The Ringer NBA Show - Trade Deadline Love It or List It | Group Chat

Episode Date: January 12, 2026

Justin, Rob, and J. Kyle Mann are inspired by the Trae Young trade as they take a look at a few stars who could be on the move before the deadline and decide whether they’re going to love the player and keep him, or list him on the trade block. (00:00) Intro (6:22) Ja Morant (22:22) Anthony Davis (35:56) LaMelo Ball (50:08) Zion Williamson (1:04:07) Domantas Sabonis Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and J. Kyle Mann Audio Producer: Isaiah Blakely Video Producer: Victoria Valencia Production Supervision: Ben Cruz and Conor Nevins Additional Production Support: John Richter and Chris Wohlers Social: Isaiah Blakely and Keith Fujimoto The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Vrier and joining me, the real diplomat, Rob Mahoney, and the star of Emily in Paris, Jake Kyle Mann. Welcome to the new era brothers. I'm excited. Look, and flattered by the association, frankly.

Yeah, welcome to the new age. A better way to start a pod. We got to clear all rights issues for any song that Kyle mumbles under his breath. So we can't do that anymore. You know, it is a new day. to saying the song that's always on my mind. It's just like right there below the surface.

Any opportunity I get, I'm going to belt that out. So first episode with the video on Netflix, welcome to our new viewers, listeners. We're still on Spotify if you're listening on that app, video and audio. I'm curious, though, you know how on the special Netflix shows they have that like specialized dun dun that they do? Like, what's our dun dun dun?

Like, can we make requests to like Ted Sarandos here? A ball bouncing twice. would be good, right? That's not bad. Like an NBA jam? Yeah. Pounding it, yeah. I don't think we're going to do a lot better than that, honestly.

Topical appropriate. I like it. What about the heavy breathing of someone just looking over Deniavdiya stats on Synergy? A little pointed. Ha ha. With heavy breathing of Zion Williamson on a closeout. Oh, come on. That one's tough.

All right. So we're going to get into a little trade deadline action. But before we do that, why don't we take a quick break? All right. So we're about what, like a month out from the last time we checked in on the trade deadline. Trey Young was the only deal that's happened thus far. January 15th is kind of another special date on the calendar because that's practically everyone who signed over the offseason is now available.

We're recording this January 11th and midday. So just an FYI if you're wondering why we didn't count for those games. I thought the trade deal was interesting for a lot of reasons, Rob. first and foremost that he basically got traded for nothing. And I do wonder not only in terms of like where Trey is overall, but in terms of like the next phase of guys who might be up on this deadline, I do wonder if they might fall the same fate where it's like if you make too much, if you're not contributing too much, if you're not available as often as you need to be,

could you also be had for not all that much? First, I think you need to apologize to C.J. McCollum's family. It's just incredibly. He is a man. He is a basketball player. Corey Kisbert, a real live NBA player and a quite a good shooter. Is C.J. McCollum. Well dressed, I have to say.

Is C.J. McCollum a bad diplomat? Because this CBA, got to save. A lot of gripes. There are a lot of gripes. You know, good for some people, bad for others. It depends on your point of view as far as his diplomacy is concerned. I take your point, though. And really, this market overall, there are a lot of teams who you would think

are eager to make some kind of move, but are they desperate enough to make the big sorts of moves that would lead you to a Trey Young? They would lead you to another, you know, distressed star around the league right now as opposed to just like, oh, can we get a marginal role player upgrade here or there to shore up our depth? I think the big swings are sort of hard to come by right now.

So on today's episode, we're going to get into some of those guys who are kind of on that fence of like, do you really want them long term? But can you really get much for them if you do decide to trade them? We're doing trade deadline, love it or list it in honor of my favorite HGTV show, Love It or Listed. You guys familiar with this?

Very familiar. Kyle, are you a love it or listed guy? I'm not. Can you like give me a quick yada yada for this? Like what's the elevator pitch for this show? The premise is a couple likes their house but doesn't love it. And so there are two hosts. One rehabs the house.

They give them a mile and money and they get to do like up. for the house to either sell it or keep it. On the other hand, the other host is out there looking for a new house. So you either love your house or you list it at the end. And so we're going to do a version of that. Instead, this is basically, do you love the player enough to get through all of their, let's say, foibles? Or can you just deal with the player is probably more accurate?

Or do you list him? Do you finally just say, like, we'll take anything. We just kind of want to move on from this guy. Yeah. I think what we're missing in the formula, the best part of the show is seeing each member of a relationship lay out what they think their priorities are.

You'll find an episode where, like, the wife is obsessed with being geographically close to her gym for no reason whatsoever. It's just like the most important thing in her life. And I wish, this is where I wish we could take these teams through this process. I wish we could do the renovation with them and talk them through the possibilities

so we could see, I don't know, a relationship thrive or crumble in real time. That's part of the appeal of love it or listening. it to me. Yeah, like a little newlyweds game where we interview separately from each other, each member of a front office and be like, yeah, what is it that you value and then have them sort of realize like, oh, either be surprised that they're not aligned or be embarrassed that, you know, people see, I could see that being really interesting. Another thing, too, you're talking about getting an amount of money. It'd be interesting if the NBA was just like, we'll give you this

amount of money to, you know, develop them in whatever way, you know, some kind of, some kind of pool of money to improve the asset a little bit. But yeah, maybe fly them for some kind of weird platelets treatment. I don't know. Something to get somebody that's helping or struggling with health issues. I think that would be an interesting variable if we ever took this to it, made it a reality TV show, which I think we should, honestly. Agree. So you're talking about literal rehab for some of these players. That's what you get in order to balance it out there. Well, you bring up money. I think that's a good point there because for a lot of these guys, a lot of it comes down to the contract, Trey Young. Fortunately, I guess for the Wizards only had that extra deal, a year on his deal.

And he basically agreed as part of that trade to shut himself down. I think for some of these teams, that's also going to be an advantage because a lot of these guys might be looking at teams that are looking toward next year. We'll get into all that. But let's start with John Moran because he's the guy in the news right now. Shams Rani had this story earlier this week. The Grizzlies are in air quotes, entertaining offers for the very first time, which I guess just means that they're being serious, more serious about it, or just pretending like they hadn't been entertaining offers previously? Because I think at the end of the last year, things seemed very much in flux now. I mean, someone has made an offer at some point. So yeah, I am curious about what the line is between entertaining and how welcoming you have to be of said offers to meet that threshold. It's a great bit of wordplay. I think we just

have to salute it. So this is the difference between like the Facebook status era. Granted, I haven't been on Facebook in a long time, but this is the difference between, you know, single, looking to mingle kind of thing.

And then wasn't there an option that was, take whatever I can get? They're not quite to take whatever. Yeah. You don't remember this? That was like early. I don't think that was a Facebook status.

I will take whatever I can get. I think it was kind of a joke. Please please make out with me. I think it was kind of a joke, but I mean, you'd see people who would have it on there. And it was one of those like laugh about it. And then be like,

actually, you know, this person might actually take whatever they could get. But I don't know if, I guess that's, we've entered the single, you know, look in the mingle phase. They're not, but we're, where they're like absolutely desperate, I think. But whereas I think we'll answer this in this discussion, but I don't know, I feel like they're kind of rapidly approaching, take whatever I can get status. They're at least trade curious is what we're getting to. They are open in new and exciting ways to the possibility of moving John Morant somewhere else.

So after this season, Jha has two years left on his deal, both in the 40 millions, mid-40s, that's probably going to be a deterrent for a lot of these teams. And what's funny is for all of these players, we're going to go through about five of them.

I just, I found myself just honestly circling the same sorts of teams because the type of team that is ready to win now, but has the means, like the open cap space plus the assets in order to do something is very, very hard. I have down three teams, but frankly,

a lot of these teams I had to really squint hard, Rob. I think there's only one. I think it's the Milwaukee Bucks. That's the only team to me is like desperate enough to make a Jha Morant style trade. It's like situationally

just because of the context with Yannis, with all the pressure building around that situation, even as he is trying to take some of the air out of the balloon by saying he's playing to stick around, they still need to make a move.

They still need to find some kind of internal momentum. And maybe Jaws, the only way they can really do that in a splashy way. That's interesting. The bucks weren't one of the teams that I had down.

Were they one of the ones you had down, Justin? No. In part because of the fit with Janus. Oh, it's not good. Okay. But this is my problem, is that that's not a great fit, but it is a desperate team.

Every other team I'm thinking about, I'm going through the laundry list of why on earth would you trade for John Morant today? Like, what is the justification for any other team who isn't sufficiently desperate? Because this is a player who,

not only, as you said, Justin, is he on a huge contract, and you would have to break off a pretty significant chunk of your team just to make a trade mechanically feasible. He can't shoot threes, not a shooter in any real respect, doesn't guard anybody,

and is on a three-year gradual increasing trajectory in which he does not get to the basket as much as he used to. And so what is it that would appeal to the other teams you want to pitch? What is the John Morant case at this point for, I assume, like the Miami Heat? Who are we talking about?

about. Yeah, I have the heat down as one of my teams, in part because like the early season, let's just play with flow, no picks. Like, this is so weird and interesting. I think we've gotten to the end of the road there of the good times because they're currently 16th on offense as we're recording this, so very much middle of the road. And they're the type of team where I don't know how they get out of this kind of middle zone that they've fallen themselves in, where they're basically back in the play and mix where a lot of people projected them going into this season, projected of them going into several seasons in recent years. I just, they're not bad enough in order to land a top pick and they're not good enough to

really matter all that much. I do think Miami is the type of inventive sort of coaching staff that could scrap what they're doing now and perhaps just like draw out the best in Jha while also having the established culture to kind of safeguard him from some of his worst assurus. I think the problem Kyle is like on South Beach, is that literally the, worst possible plays for someone like Jha? Or do we actually think like this is the type of... I think you already know the answer to that question.

What bothers you about this, Rob? What bothers you about this? About Jahn Morant in Miami? Well, no, about the assumption or the assertion that that Jah in Miami could be a problem. I was just, I wanted to get the SMH that you gave there was like you were judging Justin saying that. Oh, no.

I just wanted to be clear. Okay, right. I think it's the right question to ask. And it would be a disaster for everybody involved, including John Barang. So I just don't think it's a good, I don't think it's a good lifestyle decision for Jha at this point in his career

given the hill he needs to climb as a professional. I definitely don't think it's a good idea for the heat. You're right, JV, that they need to kind of choose wisely to figure out how to get out of this sort of middle ground stasis that they're in. And Tyler Hero and his deal

is kind of like one way to sort of trade your way into that potentially. I just think you have to be pretty cautious about what star you're betting on. and Jah is not the star that any cautious team should bet on. I think that's the trade-off, Kyle. It's not that like you're trading all of your good stuff for Jai. It's that you're getting him at such a discount.

Yes. That really like what is the offset? It is Hero and maybe like Fontechio and then maybe one of your young guys or a faraway pick. Is that the price low enough for the potential of drawing out who he was three to four years ago? I don't, I think that the timeline thing is something that reoccur is with this group of players that we're going to be talking about because every one of them has some sort of compromise that and tradeoff that makes it difficult to build around them past the first five years of

their career. Each of them has this interesting kind of overlap where Jha, very interesting and productive early on. Granted, you know, incendiary athlete getting into the lane flying around, landing funny, and we start transitioning into these questions about his. And the glaring things about his game, like him not being, as Rob said, not being a three-point shooter. I went and looked this up. He has it in common with Trey where style of play rigidity, they're smaller, so they really need the ball in their hands. Because I was thinking about if you were going to send him to a Miami or another one of

these teams, is there a world where you can sort of alleviate some of that, them not constantly having the ball in his hands? We could scale him down and use him as less of a primary option and more of a supportive player. You were talking about Miami. There's a lot of things that sort of compromise what you're talking about. Miami would have to completely just, I know that they're nimble and on their feet, but this is the style that pissed him off.

They got a coach fired. They're playing the exact style. So they would have to just pivot to something else. Granted, they're capable of doing this. But historically, this is the small guard thing. If you're looking at guards who are over 15 points a game, over 20% usage, over five assists per game, and they're, you know, 33% or lower, it's a tough group for guys his size. The guys that have made it work, you're talking about,

Tony Parker. You're talking about Prime Isaiah Thomas, Pistons Isaiah Thomas, and you're talking about CP3. Those are all pace dictating high, high level orchestrators, you know, and I guess the question would be is, is John that group, or does he need to be the fly around getting the lane guy? Can he slow it down and take more of that floor general role? I'm not so sure. And that would be something that would really worry me if I'm a team thinking about him. I guess the other team that we should throw out there that is constantly kind of in the mix for a lot of these guys. If only because they've seemed to hit their head on the ceiling is Toronto. I don't personally see it.

Darko, their coach definitely had a run with Jha in Memphis as an assistant under the previous regime. So there is a familiarity there. But I don't know. If you're starting to trade away people, first and foremost, I think Manuel quickly is the guy who might work his salary ballast. He's one of the few shooters they have there. And also his contract is so long.

I actually think it's a worst contract. than Jaws even. I just don't know if he gives them what they need right now because I think like the center position where you're not getting a ton from Yacca Pertil because he's out. For me, they seem more like an Anthony Davis team, Rob, than perhaps someone like Jop.

I would agree with that. I think, too, a long term, if you want to zoom out and think about what do the Raptors need, not just now, but as they sort of rebalance and consolidate their roster going forward with or without AD or whoever they take a chance on, I'm open to the idea of an upgrade

over a manual quickly, but I think what they should target is very specifically someone who's playmaking and whose organization skills are a little more advanced. And that's where, to Kyle's point, like that's not really what Jott does. He's an incredible playmaker

in a drive and kick and react kind of way. Like a live wire athlete who is able to make reads in real time depending on what the defense is giving him. But he's not the guy who makes your team make sense. That's not really what he does. It's not really how he plays. I think the limitations of quickly come

in terms of his ability to make some some more organizational reads for that team. And he can contribute to still a good score. He's a decent enough passer. He's an active enough defender. Like, there's ways in which he's important to that team. But I don't think Jaws solving for the things he can't do. And so that's why I'm just like not really that interested in Jop for the Raptors.

Plus, they just honestly might be too good for taking a chance on a guy like him at this point. Like their team is stable enough that if they are going to make a dramatic trade, it should be for something they actually really need in the present test. Last team I had written down here, if only because they're just kind of kicking in the ether is the Timberwolves. Selfishly, I would love Morant Anthony Edwards pairing if only because I could start calling them the disgusting brothers. Because I think it would be in terms of like chemistry, those guys fit, but in ways that if you are running a team, you don't want them to fit. Like we're already worried about like ain't going off the rails at any time. I don't want John Morant of all fucking people being next to him.

the switch from Mike Connolly to to John Moran is just is just night and day, I guess it would be. I don't see it. I don't know why you would handicap your future after you went through all this trouble, Kyle, of getting rid of Kat in large part because of his contract in order to follow yourself back in the same place where you just have another guy who's going to take opportunities away from Edwards when you want him doing more of that. Yeah, I mean, I kick the tires on this one too. and I think the thing you always balance when you, because in your mind you think who's close that would contemplate this?

And you look at the wolves. They're a team that has some pedigree. I honestly don't think they get enough credit for the things that they've done in the past few years and the stability that they've found, which is kind of remarkable. And what's also kind of funny is you talked about aunt being like off the rails. For all of the hand-wringing that went on leading up to him coming into the NBA about like what a loose canady is, it's like, yeah,

aunt will say things. But overall, his stability is kind of. of not comparable to Jah at all. Like, I don't even think they belong in the same universe in terms of, like, their stability. He's so professional and works so hard. So if you're saying, so much as a player. But yes.

In Minnesota, in Minnesota, Jaws like, aunt, you got to come out with me. And he's like, I don't know, man. I'm just going to go watch film. And Jod's like, he's going to say no. Like, Jock keeps like asking him, come on, man. It's Thursday night. We don't have a game for two nights.

You think he's going to just be like, no, no, no, no, it's fine. I just have this nice hot tea, waiting for me when I get home. That sounds lovely. I didn't expect to be hit with that exact scenario. No, I think getting to them as a team, why would they would, you just, you take too big of a bite out of who they are as a team to make the salaries work. I mean, you're going to be giving up DeVincenzo or just to get to the number.

You're talking about giving up Nasreed, which I've said, I think they would, you know, they would storm the offices if they got rid of Nasreed at this point. That may, I don't know if you all agree with that at this. with me on that. But yeah, I just think they'd take too big of a bite out of their identity as a team to make that happen. Yeah, I mean, they've kind of gotten by without playing a traditional point guard because of Ant, because of Devinchenzo, because of Julius Randall, like between the three of them, you can triangulate enough point guard kind of stuff.

But they would definitely benefit from having a stable or hand at that position. But again, John Morant is not that guy. So it's like, in theory, a point guard would help this kind of point guard, not necessarily. And that's where the cell just gets tougher and tougher for me in terms of figuring out the very specific team that needs the bolt of energy and the lightning strike that John Morant can be but is equipped to deal with all the ways he can be inconsistent

or the ways in which his shooting will be a problem for some teams. Who has all of that stuff and is desperate enough to do the deal? Does anyone have? Yeah, go ahead, Kyle. I was going to say, I thought of a three-teamer and this is going to gradually progress and expand as we go and get more ridiculous. I don't think this is what happened, but I was like,

what if Sacramento gets, or Charlotte gets DeMontas Sabonis? We'll start with that. All right. Sacramento gets John Morant, Miles Bridges and Grant Williams. Memphis gets Keegan Murray and Malik Monk. You can figure out the picks or whatever that, however that would work. I have another way I'm going to expand this, and it just gets absolutely bad shit crazy as we go. But just that as a starter, what do you all think?

So the Kings, I mean, maybe including their current players is just giving the whole situation too much credit, but a Kings team that has John Morant, Russell Westbrook, Dennis Schroeder, Zach Levine, and Demart de Rosen. You are willing this on a fan base? The, they are unpredictable and are going to do something crazy is doing a lot of lifting here. I will give you that. So that's kind of the premise of the deal. I don't know. did the kings come up with what you just said that that disqualify them at all?

Are they going to be a recurring kind of team in this discussion? Because for me, like the players that we're talking about, they're one of the teams that's going to come up again and again. Well, this is the difference between what we think the kings should do and what the kings think the kings should do. And those are perpetually at odds. Right, because what they're signaling to the across the league is that we're actually going to take our time.

We're going to really build the culture that we said we've been building for two decades at this point. and in the midst of all of this, they've fallen so deep into the tank race. They're in perfect position to keep on tanking and potentially get the number one pick in this draft. And so if anything, I expect the Kings to do nothing

or at the very least like punt toward the future because that's their best position at this point is just to rely on this draft pick and whatever comes, not to hit the acceleration button and bring in a jaw or anybody we're going to talk about here. The punting I'm down for, it's making any other kind of gesture

to this being a real basketball team that I have a problem with. So, yeah, if they fall ass backwards into a tank job, good for them, I guess, but they still have a roster they need to fix and address. Right. So no team is what we have. We're going to list them, but there are no offers.

We're going to take them off the market. But it is funny because this sort of report came out about Trey and then a couple days later, it's like, maybe the Wizards. And then like a couple days after that, it was the Wizards. So I do wonder if we're trying to read the tea leaves, if this is just the start of that chain reaction of maybe they already have the team lined up,

but we just don't know it yet. Yeah, could be in conversation already. Yeah. Why don't we go to the number two on our list, Anthony Davis, who currently is out, surprisingly enough, with another injury, sustained a ligament damage in his left hand. He might be out through the deadline or perhaps beyond if he does have surgery. Davis currently has played 20 games. He's missed 19.

I've said a few times on this pod now. I think I would not trade for Anthony Davis unless I knew he was healthy for that season. I was so good in that season that we could just kind of go along and just try to make a run with that. I think the Raptors are a prime candidate for that. But if he's not going to play,

I'm not trading for A.D. Because he's the worst type of player you can have someone who makes a ton of money who isn't available at all. And it's just like this is a perpetual thing. And he wants an extension on top of all that. You've already heard Rich Paul. the ringer is Rich Paul talk about how he wants to go to a new team and get a new deal.

He's already got a shit ton of money two years out. So Rob, honestly, I think the Mavs just have to eat this one. But what does eating it mean? Like eating it in terms of keeping him on the books until he expires or eating it in terms of making a deal that is just accepting you're not going to get good value for Anthony Davis? Either. I guess if I could get off that deal, because after this season, he makes $58 million next year. year. And then he has a player option for $63 million the following year. And he wants an extension on top of that. And so if you give me anything just to clear my books and start fresh,

I'm doing that because they don't have cap space going forward. And they also don't have assets in terms of draft picks because of the Luca deals. Trading AD and not getting a good return back is going to be such tough medicine after the Luca debacle. And yet I think they kind of have to do it at this point. Because, Because he's not, like, he's the best player on the team in theory. But JV, you already laid it out. He's completely unreliable because of his health. Like, you cannot anchor a team around a player like Anthony Davis at this juncture.

And beyond that, I can't, I can't believe I'm going to say this, but is he the best player on the team, Rob? I think, I think when he is healthy and available, he is the best player on the team. But in doing so, even the best version of Anthony Davis is an obstruction to the development of Cooper flag in particular, to the development of, in theory. the healthy version of that front court based on the fact that AD wants to play the four and the style of play the Mavs should be playing is something quite different.

And we've even seen that this season when he's been healthy and the other bigs haven't. I just think point blank, the Mavs cannot be the team holding the bag to give him the massive contract extension that Anthony Davis understandably wants. They cannot put themselves in a position to do it. And so if they're not trading him now,

they're going to go into basically an expiring year in which they're also not going to get a lot for him in return. So why wait when you ultimately need to do this. Like, you've got to rip off the band-aid, and it's going to suck, and everyone's going to have to explain why it happened. But there's just nothing good that can happen from keeping Anthony Davis around. Like, he's not a meaningful part of this core, at least the core that the match should be prioritizing. So the follow-up to the Hawks deal, where they got C.J. McCollum and the

well-quaffed shooter out there, I think everyone was expecting the return was ultimately the flexibility, and Anthony Davis was rumored. or at least floated as a possible follow-up move to that. It's a little bit different now because of the injury, Kyle, but do you see any logic to that if you can get AD for a similar price that you traded, tray away for? Am I going after Anthony Davis if I'm Atlanta?

Is that what you're asking me? Effectively, yeah. It's interesting because I sat down and I'm looking at this and the way that you all are talking about it, Justin, I just wanted to reiterate. You're saying you wouldn't want Anthony Davis if he's not going to play. That's what you said to open the segment, right?

Yeah, I think if you knew he was going to play. Right, right. But I actually get your framing. Like, the only way to take, like, to put a trade package together for Anthony Davis is if you know that he is available right this second and you're just hoping and praying and crossing your fingers, it can last as long as possible.

But like, when you know he's going to be out minimum six weeks, what is the market for Anthony Davis? The flip side is also, like, do you do what the Raptors have done in years past where you basically trade for your offseason acquisition a couple months early? Like, do the Hawks because they're presumably taking a step back and building more around Jalen Johnson in mind, does next year with AD there, if you can get them at a discount? Is there any logic to that? I guess, I mean, I'm just trying to think of the way that this team is built. I guess it kind of comes down to how close do you feel like you are. because is Jalen Johnson?

I mean, they're probably going to have to import some more shooting in around them. As exciting as excited as we've gotten about the Hawks this year, it's like, yeah, they've been okay. They've had some issues here and there. But 80 is just such a, you know, you're talking about like probably you're signing up for. That money was really, really nauseating me as you were listing that out because you're probably looking at, you know, he's 32 years old. His mobility is probably going to continue.

would, even if you weren't getting injured, his mobility would have continued to start to kind of ramp down, I would think. And that's kind of the whole value proposition with AD because his post percentages are lower than ever. He's getting the line fewer than ever, like fewer times than ever. He's not quite the lob threat that he used to be. I don't, I just don't know that I would be signing up for that. And another thing that is hilarious, like when you're checking out, you know, I was just like zooming out over the landscape of all the machinations that have led to this happening. really funny to me that how open and easily New Orleans included their pick in the deal to trade up to get Derek Queen and to see Atlanta repeatedly refuse to include that pick in deals

for potential stars, I think it's just like an ultimate comedy. But I just would lean towards not doing this if I'm the Hawks because I don't know, man. It just seems incredibly risky. I do think that the framework, though, is different than the Mavs. Right. Like the Mavs are in a position where they just need to be leaning into a harder rebuild so clearly that investing in AD as a current part of their team doesn't make a lot of sense. The Hawks, though, are a little further along in terms of their arc as a team, in terms of the roster they've already put together. They're missing pieces. They're not consistent enough. Like, they need some stuff to tie everything together, certainly. I think the Raptors fit this description as well where they're already quite good

and could make a play for Anthony Davis using Yacca Perl and one of Quigley or Barrett, depending on how the trade would shake out. And they play in the Eastern Conference. Like that combination of being a little bit more competitive, being a little bit older, and being in a conference where there's just so much more that's up for grabs, if your doctors, after taking a look at AD's medical, really believe that he could be back in six to seven weeks, then maybe there is a deal to make there.

And maybe the price is like, it probably will never get lower in terms of what Anthony Davis is asking, like, what the return for a player like him would be. a deal like this. And both of them do have the need for the need for rem protection. They do have the need for like an all-encompassing defender who can anchor what they do in a way that an injured Jakop Pertil can't. And the way that Chrisaps Porzengis, who's also on and off the floor, clearly can't on an every night basis. I'm not trying to burden AD with having to do that all the time because we clearly know that he can't. But I get the theory of it if the asking price is low enough. So you're talking about a front court of

Ingram at the three, Barnes at the four, invert that however you want, and then AD at the five, that's what we're talking about. That's, that's pretty, that's pretty good. I mean, in terms of covering ground, I don't really think that there's what's comparable to that in the Eastern Conference that could compete with that in terms of, it'd be pretty formidable, I think. Especially with the way that Barnes is playing defense right now. He's an absolute maniac on, on the defensive end. And I think the Raptors make the most, sense for AD because they're the one team on the board that would benefit the most without

really losing much in the long term of just like punching it. Right now as we're recording this, they're one and a half games back of both the Celtics and the Knicks for second. Like, does it get much better than that? The East is just going to get more crowded and more healthy in terms of like the Celtics and Jason Tatum as things go on. The Sixers next year with like a full year of Edgecom and some of these younger guys blending in with Embed, who is all of a sudden getting healthier. Like, this is the opportunity for any team that really wants to take advantage of it. And I think the Raptor is a prime example, probably like number one in the list of the teams that

should be really considering it. Yes. The other team I wrote down here was the Bulls, who are the complete opposite of that. So I just, I think the Bulls are going to come up a lot because they really don't lose much by trading a lot of the expiring money that they have in order to go and do something in advance of next year. I don't know if AD is the right fit for what they're doing because they do want to move up and down

and AD is getting slower and bigger as the years go on. But in terms of pure talent grab for virtually nothing, like, I think you have to at least consider it. I mean, it's just a pure like fuck it scenario. Like I just don't feel so precious about anything the Bulls are doing to say, oh, you couldn't possibly include even Ayudasumu in a deal like that. It's like a good role player.

But anything in Chicago, that is up for negotiation. I just don't want to nail down any of it. And so Anthony Davis, sure. Bring him home, question mark, kind of, I guess. But will it accomplish anything? Will it take the Bulls anywhere? I remain skeptical of that.

Like, they don't have the infrastructure that a team like the Hawks or the Raptors do as far as I'm concerned. So he would help them. And if the price is just like contracts and expirings, why not? If we're comparing teams to houses as we started to, if you're talking about the Bulls as a house, what is not for sale? Like, what's the, A, what's the foundation?

What are they not willing to part with? How far down can we go? I mean, is it like we're not picking up the phone for Josh Giddy? Like, how far? How far do you go? I mean, or I'm just curious, because I just want to draw that line because if we're saying that we're not disrupting anything,

is it just one player? Is it Josh Giddy? Is that the only thing that we believe in hardcore? And Noah Singay, we think maybe you might turn into something? I'm just trying to figure out where the boundaries are with the Bulls. I mean, is there anything to believe in hardcore there? To the extent that this is now an expression we're using. Like, what would give you an abundance of optimism about the future of the Bulls,

about any element of their team and the trajectory that they're taking? Like, Josh Giddy is playing and has played, even with some light regression over the course of the year, the best basketball he's ever played, and it means the exact same thing that it's always meant for the Bulls, and every other Bulls team has meant for the Bulls, which is, yeah, they're around. Like, they win some games.

They're not an embarrassment on a night-to-night basis, but they are kind of an embarrassment in a structural sense. And that's where having AD might change things, I guess. Okay, don't tell anyone I said this. Like, the people of Netflix don't know my just scalding takes and love of affair with Josh Giddy.

Yep. I did find myself at times considering the Bulls for a lot of these players. And at a certain point, he does become an impediment to taking some of these flyers on, like, a lot of these guards because it is a lot of high upside guards.

Yeah. And it's like, can you bring in lamella ball or John Moran if you already have Josh Giddy? Because he does resign him to a role that he's probably not suited for. And so you do find yourself gravitating true in a D because of that. I still think Giddy's good, but just at a certain ceiling. He's not going to take you past that. And so unfortunately, the one player we're saying that is a keeper, if anything, also kind of boxes them into being a certain type of team.

It's true. You know, we're not getting the, look in the mirror and the introspection from the teams themselves, but we are from us. You know, like this process is exposing something about, if nothing else, Justin, the fact that you are finally willing to admit that Josh Giddy might be kind of complicated to build a basketball team around. He's extremely complicated for people, you know, I know, I'm assuming that we're going to be reaching people who haven't heard us before.

Justin, is this just a shift from you? Maybe this is an area I didn't know about you. Is this just, did Justin have like a rational Josh Giddy obsession that I didn't know about? Oh, he's a giddy guy. Yeah. He's a giddy for giddy. Apologist. Yeah.

I always thought there was a good player there. Though I have been careful to point out that I think he's like a fun, good player, not necessarily like an all-star. Like if you're trying to compare him to the value of Caruso in a playoff game in a finals game, like there is like one-to-one there. But if you're starting a team, I thought there was like this player in him at the very least. A guy who can make like one all-star game because he just happened to have a couple good months before the voting.

And that's who he is. He can get you to like a 48% win percentage. Like he's fully capable of that. So he's a bull. He's a perfect ball. Look, spiritually, there's really no question. He's a Chicago Bowl. Okay.

Do you guys have any other teams? Should we move on? I think let's move on. So, I mean, we're listing Anthony Davis yet again. Yeah. But do we think anything will actually happen? Yeah, this doesn't happen on the actual HGTV show where you listed and nobody like wants the house. Well, they don't go that far.

You know, it's like there, the story ends as soon as the episode. so dense. That's right. Next on the list, I have Lamello Ball, who might be the most intriguing guy on this team, because I think if you're thinking about buying low to get a big old payday, or payoff later on, I think

he at the very least has flashed the type of talent and is young enough to where, if you can convince yourself, like, my pre-draft evaluation, or even like his first two seasons, we're good enough if we just figure out the injury things and also just, like, don't pull our hair out. If we have enough guys who are

just had the emotional IQ not to just like completely derail themselves trying to coach him. It sounds like Charles Lee is very much in that sort of nebulous zone right now. So three years after this year, which is the real sticking point with Lamello. Kyle, do you have, what are your teams on your list right now if you're thinking buying low on Lamello? It's similar clientele that we've talked about before. I mean, you're going and looking for drinks. I know, I just want to say, I know how this is going to go. I already can see on Rob's face.

I know based on the things he said, I just know that he's going to say, keep him. Like, I kind of think it's fair to... You're goddamn right. I'm going to say keep him, because on my deathbed someday, I'm going to be whispering with my last breath. If only they had gotten lamello ball, the finisher he needed, everything would have been fine. Like, I am just going to be one of these guys who goes down with the ship,

but also, this team just hung 150 points on the jazz. Why are we trading Lamella ball? Who's starting at center for the jazz in that game? Was it Kevin Love? I think it was Kevin Love. Okay, Nerkich was out, and do you really think that they would have scored fewer points if Yusuf Nerkich was play?

138 on the use of Nurchich-led jazz instead. That's right. Would have had a little dignity there. But no, we are coming off probably a high point. We talked just the other day about the big three Hornets and what they could do. At the same time, right after we record that podcast, Lamello was relegated to a bench roll,

and the explanation was very like suspicious where it was like, oh, we need to manage his minutes because of his injuries and so like we want to finish games with him, he couldn't do that before. Yeah. My bullshit detector was very much up there because there was also like stuff kicking around

about Charles Lee not being super happy about the Lamello experience. But I don't know, Kyle. Where are you on Lamello overall? Do you see the talent or do you see the headaches? I think I'm closer to where Rob is, honestly. I mean, granted, I think he needs to mature.

I say closer, I'm exactly where Rob is. There's no way. I just watch the, we covered this on a previous episode. I just think the uniqueness of what they have with the backcourt stuff right now. I just think they're like one more piece away, I think, from making this interesting. And I don't necessarily, that was why I kept trying to figure out a way to get subonis to that team. Because I think the professionalism of a player like that, I even expanded it. I didn't say this, Trey, because I knew you guys would reject it.

but I was like, okay, Hornets gets a bonus, Grizzles get Bridges and Great Williams, the Mavs get Zach Levine, and the Kings get Anthony Davis and John Morant. And then there's some picks moving around in that. Four-teamer. You tell me the Kings wouldn't want to get Anthony Davis and John Moran. I think they'd be game.

Yeah, they'd be down for that. Would anyone else be down for it? I would need to see it on paper. Right. I'll send that over. I'll put that on your desk. Please fax it. No, I just, I know Charles Lee's challenge

him to get stronger. I saw that. It's like, okay, yeah. I mean, he does need to get stronger. I don't know if he's into, I'd love to hear if he's in denial about that. Another interesting thing about a lot of these players is they just have that like wispy two, like one footedness in the lane, Morant, the lamello ball, very similar. Like, they're just guys who land funny. And it just kind of makes you think about the way we should think about players coming into the league. But overall, man, I just think what the Hornets have is so offensively unique. And when it's humming, it's a pain in the ass. I know that he's difficult, but I don't think that I would trade him. I really don't. There's just been one thing that's consistently true with the hornets,

and that's true. Even when Lamello is jacking shots, you don't want him to take, even when he's just like cartwheeling through life, their offense, the best version of it, has Lamello ball on the floor pretty much every season. And usually when he's on the floor, their offense is just quite good, point blank. And so that's not a player I'm like eager to trade away. Granted, I don't have to coach him. And so Charles Lee, as every coach Lamello's had before him, like, there's a, there is a bargain you have to strike. And there is a piece you have to find within yourself to understand that you might not reach this guy in the way that you hope to reach every other player around him. Like there just is a different communication. There's a different expectation, fair or not,

for a player like this and a talent like that. And if you can make peace with that, I think you can ride what he brings to an offense pretty far, maybe not far enough into like a finals run. but to be a really successful team for a long time potentially. I think the question is ultimately similar to what the hawks asked themselves with Trey Young. Do we need Trey Young or do we need a Trey Young type? Like can the Hornets replicate their just balls? But who is a Lamello ball type? No.

Well, if you squint hard enough, what about Tyler Hero? Not really the playmaking. Bless his heart, but no. As a stopgap for him, I think the, here's the thing. I think if you get off the money long term, you're not winning if you're the Hornets in the next year or two, probably. I do think like that has to be a big calculus to this.

And I do think if like you could basically trade off Lamello's silliness for some of the same sort of gameplay habits, but just have someone who's a little bit more dialed in and perhaps looking to prove something in hero. I don't hate it. As long as you're thinking that the big payoff for, this is getting off the money long term. You're literally chopping the deal in half.

Also, check this out. You also get Simonei Fontecchio in this deal. So that's the sweetener. That part I'm up for. You know, getting big tech to the hornets is something we can all get behind. But like a Tyler Hero con caniple Brandon Miller trio, I am

not excited about that. You always have two of them on the court. That is a defensive saloon door. Not that it's any better with Lamello. I was going to ask you all this question. I think this is of the crux of it for me is, do you think that La Mello Ball is fun to play with? Great question. You don't think so, just.

I think he is at the start, because in the same way, players marvel at Kyrie's ability to do things that they cannot, Lamello just has things that he just manifests in the world in a way that a typical NBA player cannot. But over time, I think he just makes so many dumb mistakes. And if you're like a grinder, which is kind of like what they seem to be identifying with Canipal and James and some of the guys they brought in over the past year or two, I think it's going to slowly just become a powder keg because you can't have those two like warring sort of approaches like coexist.

I mean, are they really at war though? I think so. I think someone who's a hard over versus someone who just wants to like do finger paints on the basketball court. I think so. But they're beautiful finger paints, you know? They are at times. The color blending, it really works for me.

You know, it really pops on the page. to answer the question though I do agree there's got to be some kind of trajectory with it right at different points in the experience I can absolutely see it I think ask any basketball player and the accumulation of someone making the same dumb mistakes over and over and over of course will weigh on you and for lamello it could be the shots

it could be the gambols he takes defensively it could be just the turnstiling you alluded to Kyle which is its own sort of problem like just being very soft on the ball in a way that creates problems for other people and so the answer might be different depending on who you ask. If you're the big who's asked to clean up after him behind him on defense, that might not be the most fun experience. But if you're the guy catching Lobbs,

if you're the one kind of reacting to everything he brings that's inventive to the table, that does seem kind of energizing to me. That's why I think Miami should be identifying lamello more than any of these players as the guy they're going after. It's basically the same case that we laid out for Jha, but just for a player who presumably still has more in the best, bag that hasn't been teased out there. I just think Spel would be the right coach in order to perhaps like re-engineer

the system with him in mind first and foremost, but also like play through or have like the the backbone of like dealing with all these superstars that he would be able to be able to speak to him one because he has that gravitas. And also like he's used to taking shit like he did it from LeBron from day one and has gone through the list of some of the like the biggest names on the board there. So if I'm in the heat I'm trying to make that happen That's a different kind of shit though

That's a guy with a really high standard Trying to meet in the middle And this is a like I need you to get serious Kind of a thing Which we're all assuming is true of him Based on what we've seen And not just a guy with a high standard But at that point in particular

And this is true even today But LeBron as a The kind of star who flexes his power Right who wants a certain kind of authority Who wants a certain kind of input who wants to be, rightly so, because he's one of the greatest players to ever live, like a certain kind of pedestal in terms of the way he's regarded within an organization. I'm sure Lamello benefits from and wants some of that stuff too,

but I think the communication of trying to reach Prime LeBron James versus trying to reach Lamello Ball. Like, those are different languages. And for all of Eric Spolster's incredibly strong suits, I don't think we've ever seen him do something like that before. Yeah, their team has been on the younger side of late. I think Bam definitely was reached, but he also didn't seem to be someone who wasn't very coachable there.

I've just been struck by the way that Spolstra over time has kind of become like the biggest swinging dick in the room in most coaching circles. Like he's going to be the Team USA head coach. And you look at like all the list of like the guys who have been there the longest. It's really just him incur at this point. Like all of a sudden over time like he's just become the main guy. And so I do wonder if ball who grew up at a time,

probably when the big three heat were at their apex. Like you look at Spoh is almost like the way that we would look at Riley or some of these other guys like Pop where it's just he's, he's brought the best out of the guys I've idolized. And if that can blend together, I think it could be on to something special because the talent, nobody denies the talent with balls, right? It's just the injuries and it's also the silliness. And so I don't know.

For the heat, they need something. I don't think what they're doing now is going to work long term. To me, ball gives them at the very least a North Star. for what they're doing next in this new era. I would be excited to see it. You know, what Lamello could be to a team with that kind of inventiveness for a front office that can also be very creative

in terms of how they pair players together. Lamello is such a weird talent that I would love to see what the heat think he needs and what Eric Spolster think he needs in terms of just like an everyday basketball basis. Who's the most sort of airing, like misguided, like super talent that needed to be roused into stability that they have taken on.

I'm trying to think the heat just don't really put themselves. I was going to say, wait. Not quite a super talent, but far afield, you know, on his own path. Depending on if you ask, Leon Waiters, right? I'll say this, Hassan Weisside had a moment there under Spolstra. It was a very brief moment, and he went on to devastate multiple franchise thereafter.

But they did rein him into being a near All-Star. I mean, they turned him into like a very specific kind of blunt, like instrument, right? Like you are the shot blocker who will participate in these actions in a very specific way because that's what we trust you to do. I was actually thinking about him when we were talking about John Morant as a potential member of the Miami Heat earlier and sort of the ways in which those sorts of players, despite Hassan White said John Morant have very little in common, except they're in flexibility, except the fact that you can't really ask them to be a lot other than what they are.

And those players don't seem super interesting to Eric. expolstra historically. Like the guys who can really just do the one thing, unless you're a shooting specialist who, yeah, we can run you through action and we can put you over here and that makes sense. Everyone else, like, you have to be flexible because who knows what next year's offense is going to look like?

Who knows what next year's team is going to look like? He does seem to relish the challenge of doing exactly that, though, finding the one thing that, like, player does well and really just almost spamming it to the point where it becomes useful. Like, he did it with Justice Wenzel long ago, basically playing him as a small ball center,

he's doing it with Norm Powell. Like he almost like gets up for the opportunity to see a player and then turn them into who like they should be, like their most effective usage. And so Lamello is just like brimming with talent. Like anyone could find ways to use him. I think Spout could probably just do it the best. I don't think that he's as rigid as we talked about this before with, you know, as like Morant as Lamello can do a few different things.

Like he can move. He can be sort of a, he can't, he doesn't have to be like a heavy. heavy load, the ball sticking in my hand, pick and roll maestro. Like, he can play and you can add his connectivity. He can be the home run hitter, but he can also add a lot of clever connectivity. And I personally just think the more that they improve the integrity of the structure of that roster, granted, we're in a new era with new ownership. And I really have a renewed confidence in the Hornets and the way that they're going

and being able to do that. The players that they added this past year in this draft with Cian James, with Coltrinter, with, you know, on and with Conniple, I feel. feel like one more step is going to be necessary for me to see what they're able to do to improve that integrity before I start to think about this. This is why we're loving it. You know, we need to renovate the art studio into a more practical office space. Like some work needs to be done.

Yes. I'm not ready to part with Lamello Ball just yet. Just get him some industrial strength cleaning supplies in order to make sure his hands are not all cakey when he goes to dinner. All right. Why don't we take a break? And when we come back, we'll finish off. this list. All right, two more still on the board here. Next up, Zion Williamson. Big old

deep sigh. So the interesting wrinkle to Zion who has two more years after this one is those two years are not guaranteed. And so the weird thing is, though, they become guaranteed before the season starts. According to Spotrack, it's sometime in July. I think it's like July 15th. Each of those seasons has to be locked in. And those guarantees kick in depending on how many games he played in the previous season and periodic weight and BMI check-ins throughout the year where he has to hit certain thresholds.

The situation isn't great, is what I'm saying. If those are the two things that you're asking a player to do, you've seen some shit as a franchise. You've been through the process with this guy and have not been able to reach him any other way. And now we're wondering if any other team wants to sign up for that. Can I ask a question? Go ahead.

Would you guys hate it if somebody proposed to you, like, you know, your pay is going to be contingent on us doing some BMI and weight check-ins? I would consider it for a second because I think it might motivate me. I don't know. I wouldn't be offended by that. I might be like, it's an interesting idea. How much is the pay? If you're going to give me a million dollars to be shredded, I'm in the gym every fucking day. I just, no, I just mean, your regular pay.

I mean, it would just be like, it would be an added thing, like your normal pay. I like this idea where we put these stipulations on Kyle's existing contract, and if he fails, Justin and I get to split whatever he would be paid otherwise. Oh, I'm into that. That's not saying. If it's about you, then, yeah, I'm down for that. I'm just looking for new ways to keep myself accountable, guys, because just, I'm trying. So you're doing this for your normal payday, not like for some, like, high dollar amount. He just, he just gets your benefits from the mom for him.

Yeah. That's ridiculous. It just seems like an interesting way. to motivate me is all I'm saying. I don't know. Well, it's kind of worked for Zion. You know, he showed up for the season in better shape, clearly. I don't know if he's meeting his check-ins or not.

We actually have really seen any in-depth reporting on if he's hitting those thresholds. Another, like, it's not like he's playing poorly when he's on the court. Still a really good player. And he's currently in a stretch where he's playing pretty well. They're jostling between the bench and the starters. He's now a consistent starter. And I don't think, like, the blend they have going there, if they even fucking care in New Orleans.

But, like, he's doing what you want from Zion quietly and just nobody cares. That's probably the, like, the really concerning thing. It's the sound of silence as he's playing well. Yeah. I mean, he's just a relentless attacker, though. And that comes with its tradeoffs, right? Like, if you put him out there with Derek Queen and Jeremiah fears and you want those guys learning on the job, Zion is going to take up a certain amount of space.

And he's going to be attacking and have a usage rate and, like, you know, just a level of responsibility that's going to trade off with those guys. I'm kind of okay with it, though, to be honest with you. I don't think he eats up all of the oxygen. I think there's still room for the Pelicans, young players, to try new things and to be able to create on their own. And ultimately, the contract part of this, Justin, to me, is a huge part of the calculus,

because it takes off the possibility in a lot of ways of just trading Zion Williamson for, like, as a salary dump. Like, there's really no point in doing that. And so if the Pelicans aren't getting back something real in return, why would you trade him? I guess just to unburden yourself, if he's just such a nuisance and you know that the time is like the bomb is ticking away and that you've been through this now five to six different times. So what's the seven before? You know?

Well, I do is like going forward, like do you even see like Queen and Zion playing together? Like let's say the Pelicans turn things around. Right. Take a fucking miracle, but let's just live in this reality. Two years from now, Zion and Queen are on the court together in a crunch time game of a point. playing game. Does that seem realistic? This doesn't seem like the best use of either guy. No. I can't envision it. I mean, it's already a little bit clunky. I would say you were talking about him. Which interesting is that Zion can be Zion and be impressive in the way that you were talking

in the way that you look at a box score. You're going, you're surfing the game logs on if you're, if you're a real head on basketball reference and you're just seeing like him scoring a lot. It's like, yeah, in a vacuum, those things are true. But it's just you start adding up the, you know, the most, let's see, the highest possession lineup that he's a part of. You mentioned and his fears, Trey Murphy, Sadieke Bay, Zion, and Derek Queen,

and that team, and that lineup is on almost 100 possessions, negative 10.1. They're not winning. I mean, it's just not working on any level. They've lost nine of their last 10.

They don't have their pick. I just feel like, the main thing that I just have a hard time imagining is I was joking when we were coming on here about him being out of breath on the closeout. He's in better shape. He looks better, but his effort is still really bad on those clothesats

and things like that. So I'm just like, he's not helping me in that way. And he's just, just played so little. I think I would just go ahead and start looking into Miami was a team that I thought, I know I'm trying to get back to that. I mean, what about like Rozier's expiring, Fontechio and his expiring,

and then like a younger player that could connect to whatever direction we go, like a, like a Hawke's. I mean, I feel like that could work. Well, you've already tripped the wire with the league office. I don't know if Terry Rozier's expiring is eligible to be traded. We'll see how that pans out. I don't, has anything come out on that lately about what? What's going to happen?

I haven't seen anything. No, Adam Silver doesn't do anything. He just waits for people to stop remembering that these things exist. It's honestly a good strategy. If you can get away with it, it works quite well. No, but I'm with Kyle, though. I do think the return should basically be like, clear the decks. You get a fresh start and Zion also gets one on his team.

I think Miami's like a good counterbalance of that because they could bring out something out of him perhaps by just like drawing a hard line. Yeah. I don't know ultimately because I just think like they need someone with a little bit more of an established track record because with Zion Robb like I'm worried more about the injuries than with any guy we've talked about. It's so much worse. It's overwhelming. Again, it's just so hard to count on him being any kind of factor for your team. And yeah, if it ever clicked into place, if he was this guy all the time and playing even 50 games on a consistent basis, that would be an incredible development for his.

career, we would all love to see him be that version of that player. I just, I don't even know how you set the market for him. And this is why I ultimately default to like, I guess, loving it relative to listing it as Zion goes. If I really believed that the market could bear an offer that was more than just clearing the decks that was getting you even like a draft pick of note or a rotation player of note, then maybe we can have a conversation. I just think he's so hard for other teams to evaluate.

And most of their front offices, even though, in the most charitable interpretation, are incredibly split on how they feel about Zion Williams, and most just don't trust him at all, right? Like, there's just no reason and no track record to believe that he could be anything different

for your team than he's been for the Pelicans. And so long as that's the case, if you're just going to clear the decks, just cut him. Like, just wait for the non-guarantees to be as favorable as you need and cut him. And that's one way to clear the decks.

But handing him to the Miami Heat, like, why would I do that if I'm the Pelicans? What's in it for me? can I bring back my friends the Chicago Bulls? You all often do. You perpetually will. Who have just oodles of expiring money on the books so they can not only clear the decks, but perhaps give you some guys that you could then resign next year,

which for a small market franchise is important. They did that last year with Kelly O'Linnick in mind, Bruce Brown. They ultimately didn't sign these guys. But the idea is like, if you're a small market, you need to think ahead because you need to have the bird rights as an advantage to sign someone because they're just going to go off to a Miami or somewhere else. So who are we talking about? Well, so Vooch, I think, is interesting to me,

not only because he has a big old contract, but also because he seems like he's very miserable playing for this bulls team. We got to get him out. Like anywhere, anywhere, but here. Vooch next to Queen is defensively a huge problem, but fun is fun. Fun.

Yeah. Give him like two years on top of this as an extension and like you're just providing space for this guy to work in the post. Shaperone. I like Vooch. I don't hate it. I like Vouch is like the starting point.

Yeah. That's pretty cool. We'll bring it to the dance. I think the next piece can either be you get off the money, so Collins would be someone like that. Or Kobe White feels like he almost steps on fears and some of the guards a little bit too much. Yeah. So what about what about Patrick Williams? Can I interest you and just, I guess that would be the case.

Let me stop you there. You can't interest me. The Bulls have to convince the Pelicans that they're doing them a favor by taking on Zion and you're doing us a favor. But I just don't think the Bulls even think that. I think they're still hoping Patrick Williams is Kauai eventually. But I don't know, I think Vooch plus something.

I do think Zion is in that... I do think Zion is in that space, though, where a lot of teams would treat him as the kind of risk you would need to compensate them for to take. And so, like, that's where I don't even know that the clearing the decks move is out there. like the expirings as a trade return on itself, like the pelicans might need to throw seconds into that deal to make it work.

They might need to attach a young player into it to make it work, even if it's one that they've kind of given up on. I just, I don't believe that they should go through all of that trouble when they could just cut him if they really didn't want Zion Williamson on their team anymore. And yes, honestly, Kobe White for as complex a bit as he would be with fears and everything else that's going on with the pelicans, at least is a notable enough talent. that you could believe in it as a player,

you could then move somewhere else. Unless you're getting that, unless you're getting somebody who you can at least pencil into a depth chart in a meaningful way, I'm just going to hang out with Zion, and I'm going to let him cook for as much as he's available, and I'm going to live with the reality that often he won't be. We're barreling towards a world where Zion is just this great thing

that you can rent. People just kind of stop getting tied up in his future because it's just not a thing. It's like the Bob Macadoo kind of thing. It's like, yeah, we got this great talent. He's on our team, and he's in a limited role because we can't trust him. And one night, he might look like the best player in the world. But I don't know, just kind of the way the process,

granted Porzingis worked his way back. I just think he's going to be one of those guys that's overqualified for the limited commitment that he's going to have. I think that's kind of what we're going to end up doing with him as his career enters the next phase. Is it like renting a cyber truck for the weekend? I hope not What would you want me to say to that

See I was thinking it was like Do you just remember when Blockbuster video You used to be able to rent a whole video game system You know, it's like I don't own a Sega Saturn But I'm going to rent one for the weekend And I'm going to play nights a lot And then I'm just never going to think about it again And I'm not going to make it a part of my life

In any meaningful way But you know what? We had that weekend and it was fine It's like a dream cast Where it's like oh this is a good idea at the start but it became obsolete very quickly. It's true. Dreamcast fucking ruled.

How dare you? Take that back. I have one last team here. You're going to say no, but I'm going to say it anyway. All right. Zion for Chris Middleton, who says no?

Zion for Chris Middleton. To clarify for people who aren't keeping up with the exploits of Chris Middleton, we're talking about the Washington Wizards. I say no, personally. I don't like it. You want a veteran around your yon core, right?

Oh, Chris Middleton is the veteran that you're bringing in. the Pelicans. It's not that. He's his veteran leadership, if any word that, I was going to say Chris Middleton tried to post up Jeremiah Fears and he got blocked. So I was like, Oof, weird. I laugh, but that's coming for us too. You know, on the pickup

court, like, are just poised to get roasted by young people henceforth. So I identify very strongly with Chris Middleton, which is part of the problem, because I feel his pain. I feel his existential torment at being at his stage in his career. I don't know that he's bringing much of anything to the

Elegans, to be honest with you. And with all great respect to Chris Middleton, who I've always loved. I think it's more just like you get the veteran in the room to bring some semblance of stability there. Sure. And for the wizards, on the other hand, is Sarr not like the perfect compliment for Zion in the front court? Tell me you wouldn't watch this on League Pass. Double Trays. We got Trey Young, Trey Johnson, Kishon George, your fucking guy.

Yep. Zion and Alex Sarr. Well, you've already tricked me because I'm already watching the Wizards. So, of course, I'm going to continue watching the Zion Wizards if that's what it gained to. I mean, yeah, they go to the top. That would be, just for the chaos of that,

that would be, or Zion accidentally bumping into Alexar and nearly destroying him, that could be interesting. No, yeah, that'd be fun, but I'm not doing it. No. It's your favorite 41 team. I don't hate it as much as I thought I did. That's right. That was the quick turn.

Yeah. I don't know. Something about the way JV has framed this is kind of slowly winning me over, but I can kind of see the vision of it. Don't you want something else? You're just going to take Middleton? Oh, for the Pelican, on the Pelican side, you're saying. Yeah.

Well, that part I don't understand. But as far as Zion Williamson as a Washington wizard, sure. You want Bob Carrington? You want Cam Whitmore? We'll give you any of those guys. They're just hanging out. We don't need them. And you could find a benchroll for them.

What if they had Butchievich? and Vukchievich in New Orleans. Pared those guys up with Queen. I'm just, we're just spitball in here. We're just trying to come up with transformational strategies for the New Orleans Pelicans. And I've yet to hear a better idea. Balkan night will go crazy there.

All right. Last one on the board. Domanus a bonus. Currently out since November 19th with a partial meniscus tear. I think things have actually gone better without him if only because they were forced into a, like a actual. lane, which is being the worst team in the NBA.

Like, it's between them and the Pacers on any given night. And somehow the Pacers have actually played better than them of late, currently tied with the Pacers as we're recording this for the worst record in the NBA. This is the hardest one on the board. He has two more years after this

in the mid-40s. We know all the complications with defense and trying to just build any semblance of that side of the floor with him on there. I got nothing. I think you love because you have to love them like you do with family. Jesus.

Domino is your brother or your cousin or... God, Justin. Let's not get into that. Just now. It's Netflix debut. Family sucks. Hopefully we don't have a password. Yeah.

It is hard. It's really hard to find the DeMontas-a-Sabonis trade team. We've talked about the Hornets during this pod and others. I do think there's some logic there as like a half-court hub for them that can counterbalance what Lamella brings to the table. otherwise their biggest impediment in trying to trade De Manus a bonus somewhere is that they are the kings and thus cannot

trade him to the kings otherwise who are you convincing that they are close enough to being competitive to want De Manus a bonus but willing to accept the fact that they will only be so competitive because of De Manisabonis a bonus. It's a pretty narrow range of team to be honest I look around at the would-be kind of playing teams

in the east or some of like the middling teams in the West and I just don't find a lot of take for even the best version of what Domas can be. I kind of was thinking about him in the way that you were pitching Chris Middleton's value to someone. I think we're kind of at the point where he is so complicated, like you all were saying, a different version of the giddy kind of problem

in that he's not a behind-the-arck player. He's not going to be somebody that's a high-defensive impact player. But I do think that Subonis... He's kind of a behind-the-arck player. Like, he's a pretty decent three-point shooter. Right. I mean, okay.

He's a one Mississippi kind of a guy. Like, he's not going to be aggressively taking them. He's like, okay, we'll let him have that. He might hit us. He might punish us sometimes kind of thing. I just think his, I see him as a structural, you know, proposition. Like, I see him as somebody that could play with smaller guards who aren't necessarily physical drivers, who need somebody to set screens for them.

That was kind of why I kept coming back to the Hornets thing. But yeah, you're right. For those reasons, I think it's super, super narrow because that, his value is not, he's not a universal donor to every situation where people are good. He's just so conditional. But for a team like I described there, like with guards like that, I think he could be a big help. But they're not many of those. I like him for the Hornets if Lamello is moved out in a separate trade because then you're

just relying on him being the hub for two guys in Miller and Kahn who could do a little bit of that. And so it's more of like an equal timeshare sort of thing, whereas Lamello, I think, forces is the issue a little bit more than those guys. I wanted to bring him back to Indiana, but that doesn't make sense. Like if you're thinking ahead of because they need a center, I don't know where they're going to find that, because the J-A. Off experience

has been productive in terms of stats, but not necessarily productive in terms of basketball. Yeah, it's really something. Yeah. It blocks a lot of shots relative to how much he plays. Is any of it worth anything? Does it mean anything? I usually land no,

to be honest with you. But he gets up and down the court and obviously would just like kind of bolster the ball movement thing that they've really settled on there. Obviously, Halliburton is the source of all that and it does kind of duplicate. Also the contracts. It's just like you're already paying Seacum and Halliburne. And this is the thing we're going to come into with most of these teams. If you pay two guys max money, it's kind of it. You can get like one of these in between contracts, the Celtics with Derek White, that 30 million a year sort of guy. But you want him and need him to not only play, but also be like an awesome starter. You have to get those three things right in the NBA right now.

And so I just threw my hands up. I don't see it. I don't see it either. And part of the problem with the Pacers too is, is there anything De Manas Sabonis really, really gives you that Pascal Seaccom couldn't if you just asked him to do that thing? If you want to play Pascal Seaccom as an elbow hub and run handoffs, like he can do that. If you want to have him post up, he's not like as physical and maybe as much of like a workhorse in very specific ways. as Subonis is, but it gets you close enough that I would want a different kind of center there. I would want someone who brings a slightly different skill set. It doesn't have to be Miles Turner, clearly.

It could be, it could look like a lot of different players, but Subonis isn't it? And as funny as like full circling, the Haliburton Subonis thing would be, I think it's just a tough sell for even a team that needs a dramatic upgrade of the five. So this is the trade deadline right here. These are the stars that could be on the move this year that could swing the balance of the eastern, Western Conference. Are you catching the fever? Honestly, not much.

But something's going to happen. We say this every goddamn year, and then all of a sudden, Luca or somebody gets moved. I don't know who that would be. I'm actually quietly, we could talk about this in the next episode, maybe.

Like, Nick's starting a whiff of desperation happening there. Really? Some of the results aren't going their way. Smelling a little gamey to you. Yeah, a little bit. Something's a little off there. Yeah.

But someone's going to do something rash. could feel it. One can hope. Yeah. We'll wrap it there, though. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Victoria Valencia. Thank you to Ben Cruz.

We'll be back on Wednesday. We'll record every Sunday and every Wednesday of the NBA season. We'll talk to you next time.