The Ringer NBA Show - Trade Deadline Matchmaker | Group Chat

Episode Date: January 26, 2023

Justin, Rob, and Wos look to play matchmaker with some of the biggest stars that are potentially on the move before the trade deadline. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there, Humanoids. This is David Chewaker here with a very exciting announcement. Your favorite wrestling podcast feed, The Ring of Wrestling show, is now going daily. And you can hang out with me and Kaz on Mondays and Thursdays for the Masked Man Show. And you can join me, Peter Rosenberg, alongside Stack Guy Greg and Dip every Tuesday with cheap heat. And on Fridays, I'll welcome a friend or special guest from the world of wrestling. And on Wednesdays, we have a very special new show called Wednesday Worldwide that you're going to want to check out. Paperview reaction, one-of-a-kind interviews, fantasy booking, talking about bagels, that's what we do here on the Ring of Wrestling show.

Follow the show now on Spotify. And do us a favor. Give us five stars. And do us another favor and stay major. And welcome to group chat. I am Justin Barry here. Joining me, as always, Rob Mahoney and the new vice president of basketball operations at the Warriors. Big Waz.

What's up? What's going on, man? From that one, you guys got to refer to me as Big, president because that's that's what i do now i president now yeah what would you go by what would what would your official business name be would it be mr big players players you know i'd be a a sort of a nice congenial boss i let the players call me wise but any any other subordinates it's mr big to you we'll see if we can keep that up over the course of this podcast yeah i guess in comparison you would be appropriately sized, no longer big. So it would be a tough sell.

Facts. Yeah, 5.11 and a half doesn't cut it as big in the NBA. Right. All right. So on today's episode, we are going to dive head first into Rob's favorite time of the year. It is trade deadline season officially. No, like just making it up in order to talk about trades. We are, what, two plus weeks, closer to three weeks out from the exact date of the trade deadline. And so we are going to do a shtick, I believe we did once before.

Maybe it was free agency, but we're going to apply it to trades here. Trade deadline matchmaker, we are going to take a bunch of players rumored in the market and we are going to find a new home for them. The only role really is that it has to be within reason, right? You have to be within the boundaries of the CBA.

You can't just trade LeBron to the Orlando magic for Markell Fultz as much as we would want to. But that's it. Rob, are you excited? I mean, I have one question. One, why do you do this to me? And some question, have I done something to hurt you in some way? Because I love fun, you know? And I love to bring joy to people's lives.

And so this is how we do it. I pity anyone who thinks fake trades are fun. But look, we're going to flood you with them. today. Whether you like it or not, you're going to get as many fake trades as you can handle. See, he says that wise, but I know that Rob spent hours, if not like days, carving out the most perfect trades for some of these guys. I'm like neck deep in the trade machine manual. I'm going deep. I'm trying to find all the different functionalities, every loophole imaginable. Look, my dedication to this podcast into my craft is unquestioned. So I have to dig in. I have no choice once you

give me this particular assignment. Okay. Well, let's start with one of our favorite players on this podcast. That is Miles Turner, a guy who will see what ends up happening to him at the trade deadline. It sounds like the Pacers approached him about a possible extension that would keep him there for longer, but going into the season looked like a foregone conclusion that he would be traded before the deadline, including probably to Turner himself, who not so privately campaigned to be sent to the Lakers at one point. That seems unlikely, I would say, just considering how well Anthony Davis has played and how

specifically he's well, he's played as a true center. So, Rob, since this is your favorite subject, why don't you kick us off with your first trade for Miles Turner? I mean, we're assuming in this exercise that the Pacers want to trade him, right? Because I think that's the starting point with Turner's. Like, should they even entertain those conversations? Yeah, no, I think it makes a lot of sense to keep them. for the same reasons I outlined going into this season

because they have a ton of cap space. What else are they going to do with it for the next couple of years? Why not just keep them around? And I also think Turner fits the bill of the type of player where it's like I can come up with like five teams just off the top of my head where he would be an easy fit. I think that's the type of player you shouldn't trade. But I guess we should presume that he won't come to an extension

but might come to an extension with the team that he's traded to. Yeah. Well, one of those easy fits among the many, as you laid out that you could plug Turner into, I'm kind of wondering if there's a way to get him to Portland. And I'm looking at the Trailblazers as a team that needs help, that needs defensive help most of all, that needs a more versatile center and certainly a lot more rim protection.

Can we trade Miles Turner to the Trailblazers for Yusuf Nurkich and two future first round picks? Is that crazy? Assuming, again, that we have like a renegotiate an extension situation for Turner where there's some level of commitment there. What do you think about that? I like the deal.

I've always wanted Miles Turner over there for a while. I think the only issue with Miles, he's obviously just clearly a way better player on both ends of the court than Yusuf Nurkich is, to my mind. Obviously, he spaces it much better. And I think even Yusuf No kid, excuse me, Nerkich. I just did a Yolkich Nerkich thing right there.

Sorry for the racism. Even if you count his quote unquote post game, I don't think he's significantly better at that than Miles. And then on defense, this is not even a discussion worth having as far as what the two players bring to the table. However, I think Portland wants or Dame wants a big man who has more grab and go ability. And even though Miles has shown more.

I guess, you know, skills in that regard this year, more than he ever has because he's actually gotten an opportunity to do some ball handling stuff and making decisions on the move. I don't think he quite fits that mold, but he's way better than Yusuf Nerkich. This is a clear upgrade. He's still a young guy. And so I think he fits with a lot of the other age range of the guys that aren't Dame on the team. So yeah, I really do like this trade. So I like it in theory because you're thinking basically get a rim protector in Portland,

finally plug up a defense that is perpetually not up to snuff and not capable of bringing the Blazers as far as they need to go, right? Yeah, I should be noted that Portland is allowing one of the highest numbers of shots at the rim right now in the entire league. Like they need something. And Jeremy Grant alone is not enough to get that done, especially when he's kind of roaming all over the court. So I think my issues are twofold. One, would the Pacers be willing to take back use of Nurkich who has three years on his deal after this one? On the one hand, you could say, well, the Pacers love guys under contract. On the other hand, is Nurkich the type of center that you want going forward with those guys?

She a R. Carlisleau guy. Yeah, Tyrese Halliburton is an up and down, like spread the floor, pass it out to shooters type of guy. Is Nurkut really fit that? I don't know, maybe. The other thing is Turner will be due in extension, as we outlined. How does that factor into the Jeremy Grant extension talks? Will they need to pay both hefty amounts, especially because they don't have any other recourse now if they're trading first-round picks? Are you locked into Max for Dame, close to Max for Jeremy Grant, close to Max for Turner?

And what does that say about Portland's ownership situation? Are they willing to take on that much money? And that's important because back in the days, you know, Paul Allen, when he so felt like he would spend a lot of money on the team, he had no compunction about it. And, you know, obviously he's one of the founders of Microsoft. The guy had a nice chunk of change in the stash. You wonder under the tutelage of his sister what the deal is with that. Who knows? You know, who knows if they're the type of team that happily go into the tax to be a full.

foreseed. You know, who knows if that's the case is. I think it's a totally valid concern. In addition to the fact that do you want to lock yourself into a core of Dame and Grant and Turner and Simons? Because that's basically what you are at that point. And that's

not really the basis of a contender. It is the framework of a pretty tough team. And so the question is like, as a franchise, are you okay with that? Are you okay with more of a puncher's chance than a realistic chance? Yeah, and you've got Shid and Sharp developing behind that.

So you have some runway here to be pretty good for a while, but how great are you? And that's a discussion. Waz, do you have anything for Turner? Yeah. I want to send Miles Turner to another team that's kind of bereft of heft

and Big Man, and we've talked about it a lot on the show, and that's the Brooklyn Nets. I would try to center something around Joe Harris's deal, because he stinks now. And You know, future first. You know what I'm saying?

Obviously, if you're the paces, you got to love the upside of having future draft capital from Brooklyn with the personalities involved over there. And I think Brooklyn is still rich enough. Josai is still rich enough that he can extend Miles after this. And I just think this makes him way better. As much as I love Claxton, I don't think he's the full-time solution at Center.

whereas Miles is just so versatile. And if the situation calls for it, you can, you know, this is a change of speed center in Claxton rather than the guy that you are counting on to be the linchpin of your defense. Miles is going to have to go back to not really touching the ball as much,

which will be the case in Brooklyn, and I don't know that he'll be so happy about that. But shoot, man, he's never played meaningful basketball and that team will be at the top of the conditions. contenders list in that conference if he's over there. And so, yeah, I like Miles Turner to Brooklyn. I just can't believe you do Nick Claxton like that. The dude has like three 20-point games this week.

And you're like, sorry, you're going to the bench, Nick. Yeah, you're going back to the bench. I just don't think he's an NBA. Like, I don't think he's truly your contender NBA big man. I just don't. Well, what about this? What if you sent Nick Claxton back to Indy so he gets a friend. as the starting center for that team.

And it's, I would have to look up the contract to see if this works. But if it's Nick Claxton Harris and maybe like a first, which would probably presumably come from the Philly deal. It's not going to be, it's not going to be a couple of future first, maybe one of them heavily protected. You're just getting one first. You can have Nick Claxton and the corpse that is Joe Harris and keep it pushing. Yeah.

Well, they don't have many firsts to begin with in Brooklyn. So it's probably be from Philly regardless. which are like late first in the 20s. So that makes some sense. If I'm the Pacers, I really like that. You know, like getting a center who's that young, who could be growing with Halliburton along the way and a guy who's an intuitive roller,

who's a good switch to fender. I think that could make a lot of sense for both sides in that one. I like that one. Yeah, that can make some sense. I have two down here. Similar to Rob's, though, I think you get into issues with the luxury tax. with the Bulls.

So we're going the opposite way on what people are talking about with the Bulls and say, listen, we're committed. Yeah, we're committed to this team. We've got all these veterans. We don't know what's going to happen with Lonzo Ball, but like if we get some defense, maybe we're a scrappy playing team for the next two to three years. I'd say trade Vucevic to the Pacers, who's an expiring contracts. You don't have to keep them. Plus two firsts I have down here.

Portland's in 2023 and their own in 2025. And then I also have the Pelicans, similar deal with Valenciunis in there and two first because they have so many first. The Valentunus one is interesting because you're almost trading off someone you know for sure could be a good fit around your three stars. But you're trading flexibility because I do love that the Pelicans can go small with Nance or they can put in Valentunis to basically post teams up and take advantage of smaller teams. And so, I don't know, Rob, what do you think about that? Would you prefer versatility or just knowing that you have a guy that you can count on at the five for 35 minutes a game? So the Pelicans are interesting in a lot of these conversations. I think they're probably going to come up a lot one way or another,

whether it's kind of our first options or our backup options, just because they have so many guys they could potentially deal, and they have obvious needs like this one, where it's like if you could get a stretch big to play around these core group of players, that would make a lot of sense for them. I just don't know that with Turner, I would be so sure on that tradeoff, as you're mentioning, on like giving up the certainty of what you have in Valanchunus, who's actually been a pretty good fit with their core guys. For the question mark of Turner, who's a good player, but you just haven't seen it, and then

whatever else you would have to give up to make that deal work, I don't know. I kind of think the Pelicans are in a place where they do have like a trove of good young players and picks they could potentially trade, but you do have to be. be careful. You do need to kind of make sure you're identifying the exact right guys because there's really not a lot of harm for them and just kind of playing out the string and seeing how all these different players develop and how these pieces come together. I would be hesitant personally if I were the Pelicans to make a swing like this one. Because they don't need to be contenders. They don't like need to go to the finals or the conference

championship this year. If they get to the second round this year, they've improved upon everything that's ever happened to this franchise ever. So, like, to me, there's no reason. And, you know, Utah is a cautionary tale here. Not Utah. Excuse me. Well, Utah partly, but Minnesota is a cautionary tale here where it's obvious that they kind of jump the gun in sending all of these assets to bring Rudy in.

And so, yeah, maybe it would be a little foolhardy to do this. Yeah, it sounds like Zion is at least two weeks away here. Brandon Ingram is supposed to come back as we're recording this on Wednesday. Shams put that out. Yeah. So they might not even get a glimpse of what their full team looks like before the trade deadline. So I do think they would fit for a lot of the players we're going to talk about, but we'll see if they do have the motivation as you guys are talking about.

The Bulls part of that is interesting too. I think because we're going to talk about their guys in depth later, but as you try to figure out how the Bulls could be sellers at this deadline, it's really hard to find matches for their guys. And so I can understand the temptation to say, you know what, fuck it. Let's actually try to get better because the market isn't there

for these guys that we actually do want to trade. That said, trading two firsts for Miles Turner probably ain't it. I don't know that I'm giving up that kind of, that kind of draft capital if I'm Chicago right now. You're already down the road because of the Vucevic trade. Why not keep perpetuating the cycle of violence

by getting rid of two more first? I'm trying to think of a trade that was so clear, and obviously horrible and foolhardy and misguided at the time. I think I defended it on this podcast. Even in the best of times, it was just like, how is this Vooch thing supposed to be a thing that happens specifically with the road? It's just like, wait, what?

So yeah, they need to just take their medicine and realize they tried, they failed. It's time to move on. To be fair, Rob, like, your soft spot is like skilled plotting centers, I feel like. I mean, there's no doubt. Look, we all have a type. Valentunus, Muzvich, like, I'm really taking game at your guys here. Shengoon. Oh, come on.

That's a given. Oh, yeah. Don't get me all hot and bothered by talking about Shengoon this early in the podcast. Let's flip to another guy who is perpetually on the trade block. That is John Collins. A guy who, I'll be honest, I struggled with. that first but then I struck gold here well was why don't you go first then this was a struggle and admittedly this is a reach and I think it would be I think it would be a titanic shift for the team

involved but I wondered if john Collins could be traded for draymond green just straight up just to move on wow to be like we're done with the draymond error obviously it's a decided down on defense. But I think Collins does so much more than Draymond on offense. He's shooting 26% from 3 this year, but he's a career, 36%. Admittedly, on not the craziest volume.

But he's just better. The vertical spacing threat that Golden State has been chasing for God knows how long he brings that. He just brings a verve that they just don't have right now. And I get it. I think in the most important games, the stuff that Draymond does is, you know, it's very intangible.

You can't even explain what he's doing out there instinctually on defense, but he is getting older. And I think John Collins is somebody who, it's not as if he's a defensive minus. He's a very versatile piece defensively. And I just think he can do a lot of things. he'll be much better at punishing weak defenders because oftentimes teams just be like we will put the all-league bad news bears defender

that we happen to have on our team right now and place him on Draymond. I don't believe you can do that with John Collins. And so I just think it would give Goldestate a lot of the things that they need right now in terms of athleticism and energy, especially from that spot. And, you know, just allow just to reset from the Draymond stuff and all of that baggage.

It's always really hard in the wake of a championship season, even one with all this baggage, all the noise. I mean, as big as an off-court incident, or I guess technically on the practice court incident as you could ever imagine to have on an NBA team, it's always hard to do that. And yet the warriors are at that place where they're 23 and 24 at the time we're recording. they're 6 and 18 on the road. I think it's fair to ask if that's a team that needs like real reimagining, that needs a dramatic shakeup. And there's always going to be a lot of inertia pushing back against that. As you mentioned, Waz, like big game, Dremont is still such a formidable force,

not only defensively, but the idea that in crucial offensive situations, you can run Steph Dremont's side pick and roll and get five times in a row and get five different positive outcomes because of the way he reads the floor. Like, that's a really valuable thing. But the mix there is off. Like, they need moves. I think probably as much as any team in the West right now.

At the same time, those brick layups that Dremont produces, like, so many times again, those are just dunks with John Collins, right? Like, and now the threat of that opens so many things up for guys around what Steph is doing. I just think it makes them so much more dynamic on all. offense. Yeah, Collins is a tough one because he falls into the category of being a tweener in an era where like, I feel like tweener is there are so few of them because everyone has been able to take advantage of how versatile players are at this time. But he is not a rim protecting center, but he's not so good offensively that you would pair him with a defensive minded center. And so

I don't know, is he enough of an offensive upgrade to sacrifice all the intangibles and defensive just savotness that Drayman brings on that end? Like, are you sacrificing a credible defense for a marginal upgrade on offense? It's also a little hard to tell, especially when you look at like his playoff track record specifically. He's only played in this one setting. And it's a setting where alongside Trey Young, you may or may not get the ball when you think that you should get the ball.

And the result of that is sometimes in his biggest games, which are nowhere near as big as Raymond's biggest games, just in terms of like the spotlight that's on you. He hasn't played in NBA finals. He hasn't played in those caliber of games yet. He can be a little flighty sometimes. And it's hard to tell. Is that John Collins being flighty or is that John Collins

discouraged by Trey Young being flighty? Yeah. I love it for the Hawks though. Absolutely. Like just culture resetter in Dremont, someone who doesn't have to worry about ever getting the ball, but can do everything they need to balance that team out. Also like Dremont's abrasiveness is actually kind of needed here with some of the people involved, Trey Young, you know, like the knuckleheadedness where it's like there's no coach you'll listen to. Maybe he'll listen to a guy who's actually won a lot. played with Steph Curry

who a lot of people have compared quite foolishly Trey Young too I think it would do wonders for the Hawks especially again in defense being perpetually a problem for this team I think it would be a great addition

for the Hawks so yeah it was hard with John and his salary and just like who would the buyers be and I think about somebody like Memphis it's like do they use their chips on a John Collins and Jaron Jackson sort of front court future, which I like, by the way.

You know, but it doesn't really solve a lot of the problems that they have in shock creation in half court. So yeah, man, that's why I was just like, man, Golden State, I would be interesting to see John play with Steph Curry. I also want to see the Draymond in Atlanta element, although I'm having visions of the mic'd-up segment. That's like the equivalent of when Steve Kerr was telling,

Kevin Durant when I played with Michael Jordan dot dot dot and you could see Katie's eyes like glaze over a little bit. I'm imagining Draymond going up to Tram being like, yeah, when I ran this handoff with Steph, Tray just being like this fucking guy. Can you believe this? Can you imagine Landry Fields trying to reprimand Draymond Green? Is Draymond older than Landry Fields who's now in charge of the Lion Hawks front office? I would pay to see that. So I took a different approach here, but similarly, trying to like take a big swing. We talked about the Blazers earlier. I think they're in a really difficult situation with Jeremy Grant here

because as we mentioned, he is due for an extension. And unless you want to lose him for nothing, you're probably going to pay him a hefty amount. I would try to get ahead of that and try to reset around Dame by getting a little bit younger, but not too young, that you can't take advantage of the next two to three years,

whatever the extended prime that he, he has left. I am trading Jeremy Grant plus Josh Hart, another grinder who would be well served in Atlanta for John Collins, A.J. Griffin, and Justin Holiday. Holiday is just there to make the math work. So you are resetting a little bit younger. And it seems like a steep price. They really into him down there. But you're now starting Grant, presumably Hunter in the five games a year that he plays and the Clint Capella, a quandu tradeoff at center. Conguu at center.

I feel like that's... Just as a quick aside, Justin, the Diann-Rei Hunter, Kevin Herder situation is turning into the next Taylor Horton Tucker Caruso situation. I'm just telling you, y'all chose up on the wrong one. And, you know, something else is in common,

but we don't need to we don't need to go there today. He's making your list is what you're saying? He is there. Rob, what do you think about that for both parties, Hawks, Blazers? It's certainly bold.

I mean, Jeremy Grant's been so good for Portland. I get the financial concerns. I get the flight risk. You know, like you have to plan for those things. At first I thought you were going as for Collins as like grant insurance

and trying to get them, both on the team at the same time. But the idea of making that kind of flip, I mean, Hart's good for them too. Like, I don't know that that would change that much for Portland, I think would be my concern. I get it for Atlanta. Like, I think Atlanta gets better in that deal.

Portland, it's like you're trading grant for a marginally worse version of grant, maybe a significantly worse version of Grant, and you're getting a little more shooting from the spot that Hart is in, but is that really going to change that much when you're one and two are already some of the best shooters in the league. I don't know. I don't know if that's changing enough for Portland to make that kind of swing.

Shooting is what they're lacking in, man. I think they need athleticism. And so that's why it's like to get rid of Grant in that. I think you got to maybe find a way to throw Nazir Little in there around, you know, Josh Hart. Because God bless him, but the guy's 6-1 or whatever he is. And he plays hard and he's hard nose. and all of that stuff.

But I think you would be trying to get ad athleticism, especially to gear up for this year's playoffs and not necessarily just sort of swap it out. And, you know, the reason why I like the trade is, I think obviously Grant brings way more on the ball. But I don't know that Portland necessarily needs that when they got Simons and Dame doing what they do. And those are two guys that are going to play huge minutes, you know.

So you wondered the necessity. of that. But I'm not mad at the framework. I just don't like getting rid of Grant because he's so vital to the construction of the team around there, two really short guards. I do like it from the perspective of, although Collins in that situation wouldn't have the ball in his hands a lot as a creator, he would be empowered as like a guy who's making decisions on the role, who's in more dynamic situations. Absolutely can be that kind of connector. So I tried to find a situation like that too. And I went for, I think what is probably the low-hanging fruit of the John Collins trade market, which is, can we get this guy to Phoenix? That's a team that has a need for that specific

kind of dynamism, specifically a downhill kind of dynamism. And although he wouldn't completely revolutionize the team, I think he would add enough layers and dimensions to it that when they do have the full complement of players at their disposal, they are as formidable as we've seen them be over the last couple of seasons. And so the trade that I was looking at was, would it be enough to trade Jake, the NBA player formerly known as Jay Crowder, Landry Shammit, and a protected first?

I have the same one down. Yeah, is that enough, do you think, to get it land on the line? I think it's tough. That's not enough for me. Essentially what you're getting back is an older version of DeAndre Hunter. Like, you just have a three, four,

who could shoot a little. bit doesn't need the ball. I think that is a better fit around Shre Young and it makes you a little bit more versatile defensively. It's a tough sell, but ultimately I think it's probably best for both parties. I think it works, but it would be

something that you're not going to win the press conference on. No, you're not going to win the press conference. I think what you're trading for is the fit, as you're saying, like the cleaner fit of guys who don't need the ball and in sham it, a guy who could knock down some shots, which is something Atlanta desperately needs from the perimeter. Theoretically.

You know, I think pretty consistently one of those guys who's like, reputation is great shooter. The dead eye. Oh, my God. Bro. I'm telling you, bro. In 2020, if I, Dave kept referring to this dude in the Clippers world, Landry's a dead eye. The guy doesn't miss.

You know, he's just a knockdown shooter. He's going to be a guy that comes off screens for us and the playoffs and blah, blah, blah, blah. I was like, Landry Shamit's going to make big shots and big games. It never happened. Well, you know what will happen is if he becomes an Atlanta Hawk, a team that is shooting 34.5% from 3, he's going to do better than that. Yes. I feel confident in that. And so, like, that's the idea.

So, like your previous trade for Turner, there's also a financial concern here. Of course. I'm sensing a theme here where you're just, you're throwing caution to the win and you're just willing to spend an owner's money frivolously. It's not coming out of my wallet. Yeah. So you have Booker making 36 million. You have Aiton making 32. You have Chris Paul making 30. Bridges in the 20. You have a Cam Johnson extension probably in the 20s. Collins in the 20s. So this is going to be one of the most expensive teams in NBA history pretty quickly. But I will say right before we came on here, there was a story in ESPN that suggested that ownership will change to Ashiba before the trade deadline, which probably will free things up more than it previously. would have when you would assume that they would have been pretty reticent to take on

massive amount of contracts. I don't know if this specific trade would be the one to do it, but I could see them being more frivolous than previously. You know, that's what you want to do as a new owner when you come in. You want to show strength. You want to project a willingness to spend. You want to, you want to demonstrate to the world that we are buyers, we are aggressive. I am putting my mark on this franchise. You know, that's what I'm here for. here for the big swings. Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's an interesting idea. Like I said, I had that down too. You get some draft capital back in Atlanta after trading most of it for DeJante Murray. I think there's something there. I guess it really depends on how much John Collins is making a stink over in Atlanta, because it seems like several players are doing that simultaneously. So getting rid of one might actually just help things just by addition by subtraction there. Let's go now to the back court.

We could have picked a couple Raptors here, but I wanted to do Fred Van Vleet, in part because he seems like the most realistic player to be traded. He's got a player option for next summer, struggled this year, although he has been shooting it better of late. Was, do you have anything for our guy, Freddie? Yeah, I was looking for a team that struggled, that's having offensive struggles

and could use an upgrade at point guard. And I came up with the Clippers. Get rid of John Wall and Reggie Jackson and maybe a Laker-style future first for Fred, who's going to be a free agent, who's absolutely, he's not opting into his deal. He's going to try to get paid this summer. So, like, you know, Toronto, this guy has the possibility to leave this summer.

You know, you can get a first. round pick out of it. You get to dump both of those guys in the offseason if you don't want them and start it fresh. You know, you get a future first out of it. The Clippers, stars are getting to be long in the tooth, if not, maybe not necessarily that old, but their bodies are giving out. And so you like the idea of having that chip in your hand. And so yeah, Freddie Van Vleet to the clip. I think he's an upgrade at point guard from both of the guys they have now. He can be a heavy minutes guy, so you're going to play him 36 minutes a night in the games that matter.

And his defensive versatility from the position is just incredible, incredible shooter, both catch and shoot on the dribble. I'm a friend of Lee Stan, basically, and I have been for a while now. So, yeah, I would like to see the clippers try to, you know, swing a trade for the guy. He would be a great fit there. I love the idea of him playing alongside, you know, some other ball dominant wings, but ball dominant wings in a different way that I think would give him maybe slightly more room to breathe than he's had in Toronto this season.

It's been, I think part of the reason his numbers are down, there has been a tangible adjustment in his role with the Raptors. He is playing off the ball even more than usual. But you want to find that delicate balance with Van Fleet of him still being able to run pick and roll, him still being an important part of your playmaking apparatus. but he can be a great shooter to play off of Kauai and Paul George. He can be a great shooter to plug into and fill out a lot of those lineups and a competent defender.

Maybe not as great as his defensive prime a season or two ago. But still an effective one. I think where I get caught with the Clippers and really this exercise with teams like Dallas, too, these teams where the construction is much more salary filler plus a first. And there's like, I just can't imagine the Raptors giving a shit about Reggie Jackson and John Wall? Sure. And so to me it's like, is a first enough for Fred Van Vleet?

And I think the answer to that is no. I think a clipper first should be enough. Because it would be a way out in the distance. Yes. And Kauai's knees are not getting younger guys. That's true. Like, and it's the clippers. Okay.

We need to stop. We need not forget. This is the clippers. And so having a chip from them, I think, would be grand, honestly. What about instead of the first, we take out one of those salaries and replace it with Luke Kinnard, who is shooting 46% has been really good. The shooting would be much, it would be well received in Toronto. Definitely need that type of player there, especially if you're losing Fred ostensibly, one of their few floor spacers. Does that make it more interesting?

If on the clippers, it makes it way more interesting. I think Luke Kinnard's on a bad deal. No, it's not a bad deal anymore. It's not a bad deal anymore. I think he's been pretty good this year. And he's good in ways that the Raptors do need. Yeah, I think if it's Reggie Jackson and Kennard, again, we need to check the math to make sure that works. And a first, I think we're getting somewhere.

You know, I think that's a conversation starter, if nothing else. Because, yeah, that's the formulation, I think. You've got to have some kind of future draft capital. You got to have some kind of bird in the hand for the Raptors right now. Reggie Jackson is not a bird in the hand. he's more of a brick in the hand. E-o. Not the most generous characterization

of Reggie Jackson I've ever heard, but not entirely unfair either. But no, I went along the same lines. That's kind of the framework that I'm looking for. And so I'm going back to the desert. I'm a valley boy now. I'm making another Phoenix Sun's proposal. Yeah.

Got the vest on, the cowboy hat, yeah. You know, that's the whole deal. I'm wondering if Cam Johnson, a first and Landry Shammit is a conversation starter. Cam Johnson, really good wing player. You could plug him in as a starter. You could play him off the bench, whatever you want to do. He fits in so many different lineups.

He certainly fits the schematic of the players that Toronto typically likes. I think there could be something to that. Especially since he can shoot. But also, you know, he's a 3-D guy, but that D part got tested in the playoffs last year. And it was like, yeah. Yeah. Maybe not quite the D.D. He thought he was.

So wait, does that commit the Sons to a three-guard lineup of Booker, Chris Paul, Fred Van Vleet? Are you assuming Paul gives way to Van Vleet at some point? I think it's at some point. It's basically like you bring it in now for a three-guard look. And Chris Paul and Fred Van Vleet, while undersized, are guys who can guard a little bigger than their size. So I think you have a little bit of flexibility there, for sure.

And then, you know, whenever the baton passes, is in the cards for, you know, if you'll pardon the pun, whenever Phoenix says it's like sunset, Chris Paul in that situation, Van Vleet is your guy. Van Vleet, Booker, Bridges, question mark, DeAndre Aiton,

you know, maybe that's the look. It's a little small for me in the immediate term because even though they are slowly sliding down the standings, their window is right now. And I feel like that would be a weird signal descend to Chris Paul as he's trying to pick up his limbs and carry himself toward the finish line to make another finals bid. Yeah, and I think Van Vleet is too, he's overqualified for the campaign role. Like he's just like the guy made an all-star team, you know, like he's way overqualified.

And that's why, you know, I defer to Justin and his middle management instincts. Do you think a guy like Van Vleet could come in and, you know, have to deal with being the next in line to another ornery point guard, right? Again, you know, and you wonder would Phoenix pay him. Like, you wanted those things, but I would love to see Fred in Phoenix. Yeah. All right. Let me take it one level up now and go the extreme route.

speaking of pairing him with an ornery point guard. So I want to get Fred Van Vleet to Minnesota because I'm really hot for this idea of replacing DeAngelo Russell with a steady hand. I think you've heard people talk about maybe Kyle Lowry or Mike Conley, although I don't know if the wolves are allowed to talk to Danny Inge for the next five years at this point.

No, so I am going to trade Fred Van Vleet and O.G. In Innobe, who is apparently untouchable at this point, according to certain reporting, for Carl Anthony Towns. And so I could do whatever with the Angelo Russell after this season. I could let him walk. I could flip him for a future first, whatever. And I'm resetting with Fred Van Fleet, Anthony Edwards, O.G. In In Inobie, Rudy Gobert, and as many McDaniels as I could find in the NBA. Can Carl Towns be traded right now? So he did sign in the extension. He signed the Super Mac specifically. I think he has a calendar year before he can be traded. Okay, well, we'll do it in the office.

Well, we'll table this for the summer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll take with this for the summer podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm super into this deal because I just love the idea of getting the hell up off of Carl Anthony Towns. and he's the kind of player who Toronto just hasn't had. Offense first, buckets, no matter what. It makes sense. Like, it fills a need.

And around Ant, definitely you get the steady point guard play. Another, like, I think Ant and OG as wing stoppers when locked in, the win locked in part is key, especially with Ant. That's a scary wing duo right there. And I think you can eke out just enough shooting with what it does off of the dribble and what he can do in high pick and roll That's a beautiful trade in the summer I really like this Yeah, I like it a lot I mean I'm just I'm just thinking about like the overall looks of

Fred and O.G and gobert on Minnesota side is kind of your your new core I guess you know we'll figure out what to do with DeAndrelle Russell in that situation or was or was he in this deal. No, he makes too much in order to be in it. So you're basically cut in ties with him. Yeah.

But then on the Toronto side, like a front court of Barnes-Ciacom Towns, that's really nice. You know? That's a lot of skill. That's a lot of size. That's some really nice

offensive like complementary skill sets. Are you where you need to be defensively to contend? Probably not. But I think he could be really good. Also, Carl Anthony Towns is not a $55 million player. He's just not.

And I get why you have to have, you have to sign a Supermax with the guy and all of that. Like, he's just not as good at his position as Yokic, as Embed, as the best bigs. And the system is such that you got to pay him. But, like, he's just not. You know, when you have Embed, like, you don't mind paying him that much. He gives it to you, right? And more. And, you know, I, you know, Steph, whoever, all of these, like, extreme.

Max guys outside of Bradley Peel. Like you're getting what you expect from that position in that contract. And Carl Towns isn't. And so I wonder if Minnesota really understands that. Instead of being like thinking to themselves, no, this is one of the cornerstone franchise guys in our game. OG and Anobie and Fred Van Vliet aren't enough, which I obviously disagree with. I mean, I think this is a good deal other than the fact that when you send in the facts, to the league office, they're going to respond.

You literally cannot execute this trade at the deadline. But other than that, I think it's good. Yeah, we did it, even though you can't actually do it until a couple months down the road. But I feel like that is going to be an inevitability for Minnesota having to trade towns now that Gobert seems completely unmovable. I do think Toronto is a good place for towns where he no longer has to be like this foe leader. He can kind of rely on the institution to really provide the stability he needs.

and he could just go back to being a center who shoots 50% from three-point range. So, yeah, so if Tim Conley wants to send me the consulting bill, just let me know. All right, let's pivot to another team in the Midwest, Boyan McDonovic, a guy who, if not John Collins, has to be the most rumored player in the entire market here. I'll go first here just because I have two down here, but they're kind of boring. I'll be honestly. I have them to the box to complete his Midwest. Western tour. I think he was in Indiana and now Detroit and now he can go to Milwaukee. I have it for

Grayson Allen, Jordan Nwara, and George Hill's expiring in a first. So it's basically boion for Grayson Allen in a first. And then to the Lakers because that seems inevitable, although it is much more difficult nowadays now that our guy, Kendrick Nunn isn't there. So it would have to be Pat Bev, Damien Jones, JTA in a first. I don't love either of them. And we can get to the Lakers down the road because I think they're much more interesting question. I couldn't come up with anything good for Boyon. What about to Miami? Okay.

I'm listening. So not only, so you're going to throw on a first because that's kind of the market for this is stuff in a first, another one of these candidates. But I think in addition to that, you can have Nicolaovich, who's a pretty good,

pretty skilled young big, a guy they can take a chance on into Detroit. Now, the cost of doing business is you have to take on Duncan Robinson's contract, which is not good. But two things about that. One, I think there's always a decent chance that in a simplified, more standstill role, maybe he has a resurgence, at least in terms of his shooting. Duncan Robinson has not had a great go of it shooting the ball over the last season and change, which means he's just like not had a good go of it playing basketball in the last season and change. But maybe he has a resurgence. and even if he doesn't, Detroit is one of the least expensive rosters in the league.

They don't really have a lot of need for cap space at the moment. They are a team that could afford to eat a contract if the deal is good enough. Is this deal good enough, I think, is a fair debate. I really like Boyan and his potential fit in Miami as a guy who could give them a little juice who could move the needle a bit. I think the key for Detroit in Boyan Bogdanovich deals is you want to get a first in this range of team. and by that I mean when you look at the records right now

day to day like right now Miami is like a low 20s projected first round pick but there are 12 teams that are within three games in the lost column of Miami right now and so you need to target that range of team

this glut of like basically 13 14 15 teams across both conferences that had just wild potential for variance in the draft order between now and the end of the season because they may only be one or two games back of where they are now in terms of their overall projected record

or standings, but that could mean eight slots in the draft higher. I like it because I think you identified why it makes sense for Detroit, which is that they have this cap space and it doesn't seem like they'll be ready to be good

anytime soon in order to put that to use. Why not rent it out in the same way they kind of did with Jeremy Grant, where they rehabbed his value, if anything, added more value to him and then flipped him before his deal ran out for something else. I think, and in the interim, Jeremy Grant was a useful player, and I think Duncan Robinson can still be a useful player. And what have we seen time and time again at the trade deadline in the offseason? Shooters, like every good team needs them. So you will be able to get something for him on the back end,

and I think he's useful in the immediate end. So I don't hate it. But what if Duncan Robinson is just Davvis Bertans part two? Then you eat the money, you know? Then you're hoping Nicola Jovich is good, and you're hoping that you can get some with that first. Yeah. But yeah, and for the heat, he seems like a heat guy, one, that he's in his mid-30s. And two, it just seems like he's a much better defender than you would think. So I don't, I think he's an easy fit there.

Like a couple years ago, he was guarding LeBron in that Pacer's series. And I do think he gives them some much needed shooting for this team, especially considering Kyle Lowry's playing well once every five games. Yeah, they could use his size. They could use the shooting. They can use the competitive defense. Honestly, like Miami is a compelling buyer. Like they're in a pretty good spot right now.

They've leveled out a little bit in the standings and kind of like found a nice foothold for themselves. But they could really use just a little bit more. Yeah. Well, do you want to talk about the Lakers specifically, quickly because I think they've been rumored as the biggest suitor for Boyon for the longest time now. But the Rui Hachamara trade makes it a little interesting because in the summer you need to

pay Rui because he's going into restricted free agents. I would assume that you didn't get rid of three second round draft picks in order to not do that. I think they've provided themselves some flexibility in one capacity because they have his bird rice. So you could go and do other stuff and then just sign Rui on top of that. On the other hand, because of his cap hold, I think they no longer have like a max base available in the summer. So you can't just sign away Star X, Kyrie Irving, Chris Melton, and then bring him back. So they would presumably have to do whatever they're going to do with that extra space now. And I think you have to ask yourself,

is Bowion that guy? You would basically be this team plus Boe-O-Yan and Rui. and probably nothing else. Let me tell you, I would not expect very much of Ruri Hachemura personally as a Los Angeles Laker. It's whatever. You know? Second round picks, right?

It's not a huge cost in the grand scheme of things. I think ultimately the seconds are probably a little bit more valuable. Just because the Lakers, they don't have a lot to trade here. Right? Like, they need the draft capital to make any kind of, move work effectively because they're like case and point this one right the only reason it happens is because you attach to the second round picks but the guy you're trading for is all like specific

flashes it's like this one play in this game this one quarter of this game ruya jimura has not strung together like any successful stretch really and it really hasn't shown a lot of capacity for just like playing in the flow of games of like really grasping how to like play as part of a collaborative exercise. He does some decent things one-on-one because he's big. But I just, and maybe that's enough. Maybe like big plus has hit a couple threes in his career is enough to play well when you're playing alongside LeBron James.

We'll see. I'm just not terribly optimistic about what he's going to do there. Yeah, it's funny because he came, he came and played the Clippers, his rookie season, and there was like a ton of Japanese media in attendance for that game. And I remember after the game, they asked, like, they kept asking Clipper players about Rui and what they thought about him. And I was, like, you know, I was pleasantly surprised, but, you know, it matched what I saw. They were like, yo, like, this guy, he's got an NBA body already, like, physically. He's already, like, pretty much there.

You know, it's just, he's just got to put his tools together. And he can be a really good player in this league. Like, they were all pretty impressed by him. And, you know, fast forward three, four years or whatever it's been. And he hasn't put, he hasn't put the skill stuff together yet, maybe, you know. And so it's the same story as always with that guy. The theory of Hachamur is much better than what he's produced thus far. And like, I think if you're an optimist buying low on a 6A athletic guy who has shown flashes of

being able to shoot, but I wouldn't call a shooter and can be a cutter in the way that, like, Lonnie Walker and some of these other guys have played. well off of LeBron this season, but he hasn't really put it together. And so you really are buying in on your franchise developing him into that. And I think because of the contractual stuff that I outlined before, I think it makes it almost imperative that you do swing a big trade at the deadline to complement it. Which brings us to the Chicago Bulls.

For this one, we are doing any star, an air quote, on the Chicago Bulls, and I did mine for the Lakers. What do you guys think about Zach Levine and Gorin Drogic because he just wants to come along for the ride and compete for a title for Russell Westbrook and two firsts? Both precious coveted Lakers first round picks five or so years in the future win Lopold. LeBron will be running the Las Vegas serpins or whatever that team ends up becoming. The Black Jacks. Yeah, the Black Jacks. For that third star, a guy who, Rob, I feel like you are very fond of Levine, in part because of his shooting. For sure.

Yeah, I like it from that perspective, actually quite a lot. Look, let's let it not be, let it not go under the radar. This is the Russell Westbrook, who, as we were told by an esteemed member, of the Lakers media, executes very impressive dribble moves. He's able to pull off great shots

after doing 180s in the air, not even looking at the basket. So like, this is a real player that Bulls are getting back in addition to their two future first round picks. Sure.

Yeah, I like it because Zach Levine fits around what LeBron and AD do. You know, not just with his shooting is that he can be a secondary pick and roll guy

as well. He's flashed that over the last few years. He used to be pretty one-dimensional as far as what he could do with the ball, was just create a shot one-on-one. But now he's got a little bit of juice in that area. And, yeah, he's not just a good shooter. I think he's a special shooter. And the versatility of ways that he can get his shot off will matter around a guy like LeBron.

And that's dope, especially when you consider this was the package that was going to net them, Miles Turner and Buddy Heald. I think this is better. That's the question. Especially with AD playing the five. This is better. You know, this is a better package to me. And yeah, it's a cool deal.

You know, you wonder if the bulls want to do this. Like are the, I think on the one hand, it's tough to get rid of a guy that you just overpaid pretty recently. On the other hand, Levina's had some injury concerns. So like if you are worried about that and you've been, you've had him in your shop. so you probably know those more intimately

than any team that's going to trade for him. Or you're like, actually, this is buying or selling high. But here's the other problem. It's when you get to a player of Levine's caliber, we start getting in the Rudy and Donovan Mitchell trade portion of things. And I wouldn't be surprised to Chicago. I was like, hold up. They got how much for Rudy over there?

How much for Donovan Mitchell? I need, come on. I need that much. for Zach Levine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's when it starts getting tricky because of those two trades last summer. Those guys, though, do not have Zach Levine's medicals

to Justin's point. This is tough. This feels like a team doctor trade to me. This feels like your doctor has looked at the scans and said, boy, I really don't know about Zach Levine's knees long term. And I will say, it's hard to trade Zach Levine anywhere. He makes $37 million.

that's a lot to try to maneuver in these in these constructions it's also a lot to ask any team to take on with his injury history and so that's going to that's going to bring the returns down and that's what makes this one particularly appealing when you're talking about expiring salary and picks there just aren't going to be that many opportunities to do that if you're the bulls so i actually you know if you're if you're bailing on what you are right now in chicago which I think is probably the direction they should be moving in. I like this as part of that process. Hey man, they've won like what?

They've gone like 11 and 6 recently. They beat the Hawks, the mighty Rootent-Tooten, Elena Hawks. This team is on the rise. Where are they in the standings right now? Probably right above the Toronto Raptors who were trying to tear down piece by piece. Who do you have, Rob?

Did you go for a Levine trade as well? I tried to make a Levine trade work and I couldn't. I tried to make a DeRosen trade work and I couldn't. Kind of for the opposite reason. DeRosen's more of a basketball fit question than he has a salary question. There's only one guy left. Is Alex Caruso a star? You know, I think that's really the philosophical question here.

But no, I went with Vouch. And I'm thinking Nikola Vucovitchvich to the Clippers for, you know, let's look at the board. You know, Miles Turner has been connected to the Clippers. we've talked about them in a lot of different contexts in this conversation already. Let's say a lot of those deals don't quite work out. And the clippers are sitting there wondering, how do we get better,

how do we kind of diversify, how do we consolidate what we have? And maybe the answer to that is you get someone who's like a bit of a middle ground between zoo and playing small. Like who's a guy who can stretch the floor for us without having to give up all that rebounding that we do when we go super small?

So I'm wondering if you can trade Vooch for just Marcus Morris, Amir Coffee, and two second round picks. Chicago is going to lose Vooch anyway. I'm assuming they don't want to resign him. Yeah, they're going to lose him to Real Madrid. Him and Meritich just hanging out.

Yeah. I mean, honestly, might be. But Amir coffee is a friend, like a fringe rotation player. Marcus Morris is fine. You know, kind of plug in a gap, but really it's like, we're getting a couple second round picks for this thing.

We're dusting our hands off from the entire Vooch situation. And with the Clippers, maybe you do get that kind of like mediating presence in your rotation. I don't think Vooch like changes the Clippers world, but maybe he helps them a little bit. If I'm the Bulls, I actually balk at Marcus Morris. I don't want that guy anywhere near my team. I honestly think like when I think back to it, he represents what is wrong about the Clippers'

probably more than Kauai Leonard and even Paul George because he's like the type of guy that every team should want. It's like, oh, big wing who can shoot and play a little defense. But you get him into your team and he's always trying to fight guys.

He's just like a fucking drag on everything. And that's what I think about the clippers. It's like, oh, it should be great on paper. Logically, this makes so much sense. But in practice, like, it's actually not as good as you need it to be. And if anything, it kind of like undercuts us in ways that we probably shouldn't. Well, this is why I'm trying to get rid of him if I'm the clippers.

And very, very quietly, we don't have to say this part too loud. Quiet Leonard's looking really good. He's playing a lot more. No, he looks really good pretty consistently and is playing really consistently. I'm not saying you should like be throwing out all the safety nets at this point. But if there's a point in the season to say like, okay, we can scale back on the innings. which is basically what Marcus Morris is, if we're being honest, it would be now. So like, let's get the bad vibes out of there.

Let's prioritize what we do well. Let's see if we can get something that's actually going to help our rotation a little more. And two second round picks sounds like a decent amount, especially for a team that's going to be pretty good going forward. These aren't going to be like the plum second round picks. So I'm not mad at it. The only Bulls, quote unquote, star trade that I could think of was a potential Damar DeRosen homecoming to Toronto.

Back to Toronto. If they don't decide to blow it up, I was thinking something around Boucher and Porter, because Porter's just not been, he just hasn't been as good as he was in Golden State. It's been hurt. And yeah, Toronto, like, as always, they lack shot creation. and Damar immediately fills that need.

He doesn't help them with shooting. We know this. They have a lot of defense. And so, you know, you can sort of hide Damar in that respect. They have a lot of defenders that are his size. And, you know, they can figure out where they hide them and stuff. But, yeah, I think it would be a pretty nice story for him to finish out the string of this deal back in Toronto, back where he started. It sounds like you're coming for Kyle Lowry's

Grote title, you know, greatest Raptor of all time title. You're really trying to get a second statue up there. Of course. Why not? Yeah. I mean, I like it because the Raptor is a team full of two-way guys who can't shoot. Let's get in a guy who's just a one-way guy who can't shoot. And at the very least, it could score. It could score, yeah. It'll be a fun one-and-a-half years.

And then he could ride off into the sunset into, Drake's palace into his hot tub and Levada's days in his harem. Are we at the point where we're straight like salary dumping Demar de Rosen though? Yeah. I think he gets something. Like the Bulls aren't getting.

He's an all star. The Bulls aren't getting anything in that deal. Like Otto Porter is out. And he's on the books for next season. I think with an option. Because he's a younger guy. Yeah. And he can be part of your rebuild going forward.

That's the, that's the boochet. play. Because obviously, you know, Scotty Barnes is untouchable because he's the next Kauai. But I couldn't think of any other younger guys

they could send over to be like, oh, this is a potential play. Well, the romantic in you just wants it to happen, but it seems pretty tough. All right, let's pivot to the jazz. A team that was heavily rumored

throughout the early parts of the season, but now we're in a weird place where I almost wonder if they're doing nothing is probably the most likely scenario there. Um, Waz, do you have any for them? Jordan Clarkson to Phoenix. I know you guys wanted to put Fred Van Vleet there, but this is just a way cheaper, less versatile option, but he brings scoring punch, um, at a position that campaign just decided he doesn't know how to play basketball anymore. And I think he would just fits what they need. Like they need some extra oomph on the ball that is a CP. And this guy's just draining pull up threes off of pick and roll all year long.

Like that could really do wonders for what they're doing over there in Phoenix. So over there. And then Mike Conley see my Fred Van Vleet trade to the Clippers, but for way less. I have actually the same thing for Conley. And I'm almost positive that they chose Wall, the Clippers did. over trading for Conley in the offseason, which seems like a kind of a big miss, but they didn't have to really give up anything for a wall.

So I guess it was more of like a stopgap. Yeah, more of a cost control thing, I think in that regard. I have to say, I found a little jazz trade that I actually really like. And that's Jared Vanderbilt to the Sacramento Kings. For Davion, for Davion Mitchell.

Wow. It seems like a lot to give up. Daveon Mitchell's become a little bit more of a supporting piece than like a long-term piece of that core. And what if I told you that Jared Vanderbilt is actually younger than Davey on Mitchell? Wow, that's crazy. Completely true.

And so, you know, if you're the jazz, yes, you're not getting the youngest prospect in the deal, but you're getting someone who does things that your other young guards don't or your other established guards don't for that matter. So you're at least getting like a defense first presence on the perimeter, something that Utah definitely needs. And you're giving up this backline defensive presence

that, man, I'm just looking to get any kind of like live wire defender next to Sabonis. And Jared Vanderbilt can be that. He's not a spacer in the way that they probably need for their offense, but he's a great cutter. And so the idea that you can have a defensive big who moves like Jared Vanderbilt does. And you can see him like making hay off the baseline, playing off of all the stuff that Sacramento does at the elbows and on the perimeter. I think he could be an awesome fit there. And it's hard, you know, as the Indiana Pacers found out, it's hard to find like the right defensive fit next. a bonus. But I think Vanderbill could be a good stab at it.

Another small trade involving a Utah guy. I was thinking Olinic for Danny Green in a second, maybe. Why not add that to their big man rotation? These guys just desperately need some spacing. And I just think, you know, putting, like a changing the pace up between Jaron Jackson, Stephen Adams, and Brandon Clark, I just think it would be a nice addiction. to their front court rotation because they have absolutely not really that much shooting. Yeah, I have the Grizzlies down too,

but for Malik Beasley, for Green, Xavier Tillman in the first. Can Malik Beasley shoot? It's like, what, 36%. Well, what do you mean by Ken? Because he does shoot it a lot. He will shoot. He touches the ball.

He shoots. He makes me pretty nervous. I mean, I wanted to trade him to lots of places, then I'm like, does this guy actually make shots anymore? You know, it's just the atmosphere. in Utah. It's just cold. His hands are

not warmed up coming off the bench. Just put him in a starting row. He'll be fine. Career 38% shooter. I mean, I've seen it historically. I'm just saying, whenever I watch him, he doesn't really make that many shots anymore. Yeah, he's fine. Maybe that's anecdotal. Yeah, the Grizzlies are an interesting team, though. We haven't talked about them a lot, but they're in an interesting place where they don't really need to do anything.

And if anything, they probably need to navigate their extensions before they probably commit to any big move. Desmond Bain, I believe, is due for an extension, and then Jaws probably Supermax eligible, going into the next offseason. But I thought about them for like an OG and an Obie sort of trade if they really wanted to swing for the fences. OG's not on the market.

Yeah, it's a whole other podcast. Yeah, right, he's on the wolves now. All right, last one here. We were going to cut it right there, but producer Isaiah Blakely suggested that we talk about the Charlotte Hornet. And I thought to myself, no. And then I thought about it again.

I was like, yeah, no, still no. And then I thought about it again. And I realized that maybe the Gen Z crowd is really hype on the Hornets. You know, they have lamello ball. Why not bring that voice to the table and account for that fan base? So, Isaiah, what do you think about, first of all, why the Hornets? I just, they might trade like their entire starting five. So why not?

That was the biggest thing. They literally might trade the most guys near the deadline. I had a couple. I'm not sure if either gets done, but I had Charlotte trading with Miami, Kyle Lowry, Duncan Robinson, Dwayne Deadman, and Yeovic for Gordon Hayward, Terry Rozier, and Plumley.

Holy shit. Probably have to add a pick. But, like, if Charlotte you're going to sell, I think you get a young player and like take like Miami's first round pick and like 2025 or something with Butler's like very old. And it makes Miami definitely better this year. And you're not giving up. You're giving up like one prospect and three guys who don't really help you.

So I think despite Gordon Hayward maybe not playing Terry Rozier would at least help. So I think that could be interesting for them. It's scary Terry heat culture. That's the culture, right? You fix it. They fix guys. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

I mean, it's not like he's like a Dion Waiter's type of dude anyway, but I just wonder if he would fit in over there. And I think you got to get Dwayne Deadman out of there. He literally threw a massage gun inside. I think if you had to swap guys, at least get a guy who's good at basketball if he's going to be a non-he culture guy. Also, those things are heavy.

The massage gun is that's a dangerous weapon. I was shocked by that video. And my other one is, is the Celtics in Charlotte, Daniel Gallinari for Kelly Ubrey. The Celtics need another wing bad. And Kelly Ubre is an expiring, who's been like on the market for like two years.

The Celtics just get a free wing player. Yeah. You probably get a free guy. I mean, it's let him walk. I mean, I could just let him walk, I guess, but I don't think they're going to. If no one's straight for him now, you just buy low, I guess.

I feel like I can see you bleeding green at this very moment. Yeah, for sure. But Uber is also not a culture guy, so I'm not sure I actually want him either, but it's another guy who's definitely available on their roster and a good contract while it's expiring. I like the trades for the Hornets where it's basically like, I'm going to take my entire team

and trade it for your entire, like, reserves slash role players. because you see this a lot where it's like the Lakers, certain teams that have the stars, but they're like five through nine guys are really bad, which probably doesn't say much about the Hornets that they're like three through six are going to be the benches for an actually good team. Yeah.

They don't have the stars, that's for sure. You know, it's like, who do you trust on that team beyond Lamello? And that's, I mean, I trust Lamello. I don't know, maybe even assuming that much. well I happen to have a trade for that exact player who is one PJ Washington who if I was the Hornets I would not be trying to trade especially in since yeah like Miles Bridges probably never coming back and so you need a guy in that like four or five zone who can either start for you come off the bench play with a bunch of different players but my friend Sam Presti is going to call up the Charlotte Hornets and say you know what we've got all these goddamn picks and we're my We could be pretty interesting. Let's see how far we could push this. We're probably already out of the Wembe's sweet stakes. I am going to give up Darius Basley, who was a first round

pick not that long ago, but has pretty much fallen out of favor in Oklahoma City. And you could pretty much get rid of any of these players and still have like 10 recent first round picks in Oklahoma City still on your roster. First in 2025 from Philly and a second from Washington in 23. And I'm just giving him the Mascala minutes and you're just a little bit more interesting over the stretch run.

Let's see if you can make the plane. I'm in favor of any trades that make the Thunder better. I'm team all in. You know, I'm in the wagon. I'm leading the caravan. I'm on it.

Doesn't block the way for Holmgren. Giddy is still doing his thing. Every night just galloping the main flowing behind him. I think it could be interesting. No unicorns in the prison. just horses and donkeys. That's it.

Slowly turning into an episode of Yellowstone. I have an alternative PJ Washington trade for you guys. What if the Warriors could get a mulligan on the Jamichael Green experience? And they're going to trade Jamichael Green and Moses Moody for PJ Washington. So the Hornets get a wing who's worth investing in in Moses Moody. Your mileage may vary, but a guy who's shown at least some things, but is out of the rotation right now pretty much. and they get their mulligan on jimichael green who just like has not worked out at all for them

i can kind of see it like i see pj as a guy who could fit what the warriors do pretty well another kind of undersized big who can move who can be a defensive presence who can guard lots of different players who can make decisions on the role and facilitate for them a little bit off the bench and pj's a restricted free agent in the summer right that's the key if you're trading for p j washington you better be ready to pay p j washington

And I'm counting on, look, if we're light years ahead, if we're truly light years ahead, who cares about the luxury tax? Who cares who cares that we're already paying hundreds of millions of dollars in tax? 100%. There's that. And then, you know, I go on the salary page of this website where they, like, have the teams ranked from highest to lowest. I'm looking for Charlotte and I instinctively go all the way down to the bottom, then start looking. you know, it's just obvious what goes on over there. It's weird when Golden State is just like trying to acquire starters to be their ninth guy. You know, that seems like most of the trades that the Warriors are setting up for themselves where it's like, we just need your best player to fill out 10 minutes a game

because we've completely flubbed our drafts in recent year. I don't know if they, I mean, they've flubbed some of them. Some of them. Some of them. I think some of the, yeah. Would you trade James Wiseman instead of, Moody? I would trade James Wiseman, but probably not for PJ Washington. I'm actually really intrigued by the James Wiseman for Alex Caruso rumor that was floating around. That's got something.

That's spicy. And Wiseman and Charlotte doesn't fully make sense. Yeah. Caruso plugs immediately into the Gary Payton Jr. or the second, whichever we call in him on the day, role, and it's just perfect. Yeah, Wads likes that one. He would make his list. Do you have any for the hornets? No, I got nothing. I'm telling you about it. By the time y'all got me looking like, by the time y'all got me looking at Kelly Olinic trades, it's like, yeah, I'm pretty much spent here, guys. I have one more, which is Jalen McDaniels for Jaden McDaniels, who says no. I think the wolves would say no.

Yeah, the Wolves McDaniels is better. right. Jalen Mildly be interesting these days, yeah. I actually think Jalen McDaniels is a valid answer

to the who is the Hornet's second best player question, which is not a great sign for the rest of the team, but it is a decent sign for Jalen McDaniels.

That's right. All right, why don't we wrap it there? Thank you, Voice of Gen Z, Isaiah, for bringing this Hornet's content

into our lives. I try, I try. This is real generational growth. You know, like the generations above us ruined the world, destroyed the planet. We bring on Isaiah and we're like, here, you get to talk about the Hornets. You know, this is how the chain works.

Yep, we're mulching now. We're talking about the Hornets. It's all good. We'll be back next week. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. Thank you to our Wardrow Campo for helping out. See you next time. See you.