The Ringer NBA Show - Trade Deadline Matchmaker. Plus, the Latest Flap Over Embiid’s Flap. | Group Chat

Episode Date: February 4, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos cover the updates revolving around Joel Embiid’s meniscus injury and have a larger debate around the league’s 65-games-played rule (4:26). Then, they play some trade deadline matchmaker and consider whether the Bulls should become sellers and trade some of their veterans (24:10). Later, they evaluate Dejounte Murray’s trade value and discuss whether the Lakers should make a win-now move to acquire him (39:05). Subscribe to the 'Ringer NBA' YouTube channel and tune in this Thursday to watch our live trade deadline Show! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Jack Sanders Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This might be the best quarterback draft class in years, and we have huge franchises like Chicago, New England, and Washington, with a ton on the line. My name is Craig Horlbeck and I host the Ringer NFL Draft Show with Danny Kelly, Ben Solack, and Danny Hyfitz. We cover trades, free agency, the draft, obviously, everything. We'll tell you all about which quarterbacks are going to be good, which quarterbacks are going to be bad, like Kenny Pickett,

and if there's a diamond in the rough like Brock Purdy. Follow us at the Ringer NFL Draft show on Spotify. I'm Justin Verrier, joining me, current YouTube sensation, Wozni Lambrai, future YouTube sensation. Rob Mahoney. Rob, when you got into this business

a few years ago, now you were just mining those blogs. Did you ever dream of being a multi-platform creator? This is where it was all leading, I think. Did the multi-hyphenate life, crossing platforms, crossing streams, crossing continents, really.

We're a global product, Justin, and I think we're finally stepping into the modern age to reflect that. You joke, but you look at that email account that for some reason that we still have multiple of, South Africa, we got London, we're all over the globe. And we'll also be coming to you from YouTube, the international company that is known as YouTube. So on Thursday, Rob is going to come down to L.A. if he's able to traverse the rain Armageddon that's about to be upon us in Los Angeles the next few days. Lord help us all that we might get a little rain. But for the trade deadline, we're going to be recording on Thursday as opposed to Wednesday,

as we typically do. We're going to be doing it in a fancy Spotify studio. So you can still get the pod as per usual in your podcast fees as it goes up after we record on Thursday. But you could also watch us live and in color streaming on the ringer's new Ringer MBA YouTube channel. You could subscribe in the show notes. I'm sure Rob's podcast. popular Twitter persona will blast it out to you guys at the time being. So that's the deal. Are you excited, Rob? I am.

I think mostly because it'll be the most direct way we've had yet for our listeners to get at you and get after you for your takes, especially after the deadline, Justin. I'm fully expecting you to be on your bullshit. And I'm expecting our listeners to be all over it. So that's the dynamic I'm looking forward to the most for a live show. Listen, the JV heads are coming. They don't exist. They're the silent majority.

They're in my D.Ns. They're talking to me about certain things. We're here. Wise, do you have any YouTube tips in advance? No, I don't. I'm just laughing at the idea that Justin Vary is the Richard Nixon of NBA podcasters. It's kind of hilarious. A corner he backed into.

himself, we must add. We are small, but we are mighty. Let me tell you. But no, we're excited about that. We did the Thursday podwas and I from the studio. Being in person apparently helps have an actual human conversation, a person to person conversation. And I think we're all anticipating a pretty busy deadline. So that'll be fun. There'll be a lot of things to kick around and, you know, new faces and new places that'll be really fun to sort of dissect and jump into. It's going to be a good time. here's my question, Rob, since there will be a lot of deals, do we do one

like sound effect at the top? Are we going to have you do one for every individual deal? You've got to be selective. You can't just be blaring the horns for every trade, any trade. It's got to be a legit needle mover,

blockbuster level deal to get the horn. Otherwise, we'll have to figure out another sound effect or God forbid, we just podcast without recurrence, recurring bits and sound effects like they used to in the good old days

well we'll have salt water or something on hand for you to keep the throat limber and able to do so so we're going to do trade deadline matchmaker a tried and true bit here on the group chat podcast before we get into the deadline but first I wanted to talk about the latest

development of Joel and Beed's meniscus according to our friend Sham Sharania he apparently has a displaced flap of the meniscus, and he's weighing breast and rehab or a procedure. Now, if you ask the Twitter doctors online, they would say that's basically a tear. He's headed toward surgery no matter what. And that's from some questionable sources, but also from actual knowable sources like Jeff Stott's at in streetclose.com, a guy that I've known for a very long time and would trust his medical

opinion. But we also have a Twitter doctor on set here today. And so, so what? I'm just curious if your medical expertise. I'm excuse me. I'm just curious if your expertise matches with what the other doctors are saying. I'd be surprised if he didn't just go the rest and rehab route and come back at some point here within the next six weeks or so. It seems doubtful that he's just going to end the season by getting the surgery. Like the guy wants to be out there and play. And so, you know, I wouldn't be.

surprised if he's back in under two months. Now, the Sixers, obviously, he's been playing like an MVP. They're going to sorely miss the guy. They already got their butts whooped last night without him. But, you know, this is life in professional sports guys. Sometimes you get injured even when, you know, people are forcing a narrative that you got bullied or pressured into playing the sport that you get paid. To play.

Again, just to reiterate, like this injury, Kaminga falling on his leg is a bang, bang play that could happen in any basketball game. It happens all the time. It's unfortunate that Joelle got injured. He's one of our best players. We want to see him play. All of us enjoy watching this guy go out there and do what he does. But I think he's going to ultimately be okay.

Can I just say this is one of the weirdest hills you've ever chosen to die on? What's that? That players should play? That's a weird to. No, just like the integrity of Joel and Bede's meniscus. Because it does sound like it might not actually have been the comminga fall. It could have happened beforehand and it could have just like come to bear later on. I mean, people come back from meniscuses without surgery.

Like that happens from time to time. I'm just saying it's a possibility. Like whatever, Joel and Bich should do whatever he thinks. is right for his body. I'm just telling you, like, some people do come back without having it operated on. And some people will try the rest and rehab route first, and if it doesn't take, then do the surgery. We've seen that for sure. So you could see scenarios in which they take either a hyper-conservative approach and just go surgery immediately,

or given the magnitude of how good Joelle is, how important the season is for the Sixers, how good the Sixers are. I mean, it's a team that we gave legitimate championship odds to when we were splitting up the pie. That's not something you give away lightly. I mean, I guess pie is sometimes something you give away lightly. But in this case, you don't give away that title chance lightly. Right. So we'll see. The Sixers are apparently taking the weekend to figure this out. I would assume that we're headed towards surgery. But in the meantime, things have been dire as Wazz was kind of alluding to there. So they lost to Brooklyn, I believe at home, completely blown off the floor.

This is the starting lineup they played in that game. Tyrese, Kelly Ubre, Daniel House, Mark, no, Marcus Morris, Sr. I almost said Markief,

and Paul Reed. So it's not, not even Batum is in there. Covington isn't in there. This is going pretty deep. And so I have to wonder, was,

does this change what you'd expect from the Sixers going into the deadline, considering that it's pretty much the Maxi's show for until Joel comes back? I feel like the Sixers were kind of in the

market for a longer-term piece and not just a sort of paper over some of their issues kind of deals. So I think if somebody who they see as part of their long-term comes up, I think they'll go after him no matter what. I don't think this changes their approach at all. I don't think they're going to, you know, for instance, ruin their cap situation for a guy who they don't see as fitting in long-term of what Maxie's doing and Joelle is doing. So I don't see why they're going. would change their approach at all, honestly. Yeah, whoever it was going to be would have to be someone who could validate

the cap hit. Because those are kind of the flexible options that the Sixers have at their disposal right now. They have some pieces to trade. They have some good players to trade. They have some picks. And they have this impending cap room. And so if you're going to eat into that, it needs to be a longer term piece. It needs to be somebody who's going to be

vital to the version of the Sixers when Joel comes back. Because in the meantime, you're not replacing Joel and Bede. There's no urgency to make any trade you wouldn't have made before because what good would it really do you without Joelle out there? So here's my question. So as we record this on Sunday morning, the Sixers are fifth in the Eastern Conference.

They're 30 and 18. It seems like they have their own 2024 first round pick available to them. Is there any logic to Rob just kind of taking the rest of the season off, not actually pushing forward, banking a reasonably high dress? draft picked to then either just bank a younger player to get in the mix there or spin that into whatever inevitable trade package they're going to have there. And I think the other question is how much control do they even have over how much they'll really push it this year? Because if they do stand pat for instance, like, is this team more than a play-in team because the

Pacers are coming? The heat haven't been playing well. But obviously, they're a threat there. I could see them without Joel, assuming that he's not going to be in there. Basically being a play in team anyway, would there be any logic to maybe stepping on that and kind of just suppressing the wind total for this season? How would you even go about doing that? Because with these kinds of injuries, as you said, not just Joelle, but a couple of role players who are out of the lineup right now, and most of those are shorter-term things they're going to come back from. But the Sixers are not going to continue to win at the pace they've been winning at. And they're also not going to reach

the bottom of the barrel teams that are just far in a way better at losing their than this version of the Sixers will ever be. And so there's a little room to negotiate, but I think that room is going to negotiate itself. I think the Sixers are going to be a little bit worse. Right now, they're in position for like the 22ndish pick. You know, maybe it climbs into the high teens just by virtue of losing more games with this roster playing earnestly.

I don't think you have to try anything different or do anything devious to lose more games. The Sixers are going to do that. Yeah. And I just don't see why you would go out of your way to make situation worse. I think it's going to be a nice learning lesson for Maxi as he turns into the guy on the team. Like he's going to have his shot at being the number one, the everything basically for this squad. And I think those would be valuable reps for him because if this team

is going to get as far as they want to get, it's going to be because Maxie has turned himself into an elite creator, playmaker, score, that kind of guy with the ball in his hands, right? And so I think he should take this opportunity to try to hone those skills, try to be this heavy usage kind of guy while Joelle is gone and be the guy that steers the ship. And so to me, they should be trying to win. Like, you should always be trying to win. If in the course of not having one of the three, four best players in the NBA, you don't win as much as you would like to.

It's so big. But I don't think they should be nudging in that direction. I think there's been a culture. They tried that culture of losing stuff before, right? And I would say some of their pieces were damaged by that. Irrequibly. Irrevocably. Irrevocably.

The revenant. Anyway, I think they should, I think Nickner should be having these guys going out there and getting after it every night. Well, speaking of getting after it every night and trying to win, I do want to circle back to this 65 game rule that has gotten a lot of heat over the, last couple weeks that has been a subject of great controversy and conversation because I think there's a, it seems like there's a building consensus out there that the imposition

of the 65 game requirement for individual awards pushed Joel Embed to play at a time where he should not have been playing or pushed perhaps Tyrese Halliburton currently on a minute's restriction but playing games so that he can get his games played total up so that he can be

eligible for all NBA. Off the bench, which is very bizarre. Lately off the bench. That situation is bizarre. The Pacers are navigating. It doesn't seem like anyone's particularly happy about it, including Tyrese Halliburton, understandably. But there is a lot of money at the line.

I'm not even speaking to the particulars of that situation so much as with Joelle. The idea that a 65-game rule forced him to play when he shouldn't have played, to me, misses the reality of what the NBA is and has been and what professional sports are. Like, there has always been pressure for players with borderline injuries.

to play games. It's called winning the games matters and if you won a league where the games matter you have to try to win them and it's also what happened. It was a bunch of people

on Twitter who bullied him. Let's just be honest. It was peer pressure. I see, I don't think that's necessarily true. I think there's always reasons why guys want to play games or don't.

And sometimes it's to compete for individual awards and that happened long before there was any kind of official codified 65 game limit as to whether that was the case. But most importantly, whether people bullied him

or not or pressured him or not. We're all adults here making decisions. And Joelle and Bede sized it up. The medical staff sized it up. He was cleared to play. He made a decision that it was worth it to him to go for MVP, to go for whatever it was he deemed important and he did.

I don't really see what the 65 game rule has to do with any of that. Like a professional basketball player made a decision about what his body was able to do and played the game. And he got hurt. What are we doing? This guy gets paid $50 million a year to do what?

Play! Like, this is his job, bro. Like, it's just nuts to me. This I did it. He was pressured to work to do what he gets paid to do. He was out there hooping. That's his job. Nobody should feel sorry for him.

Like, I really do think that there's, like, a culture around the conversation where we've just taken things a little too far. And I'm going to tell you what I mean. Let's fast, excuse me. Let's rewind to the summer of 2010 when LeBron James picked a new team in free agency and people pretended that this guy like, you know, did a blood sacrifice of some children or something, right? Like, it was ridiculous. And it just went too far with the old crotchety-ass media. A lot of it was very white and people took notice of that.

And it was just like, all right, this is absurd. There's no reason to cover these guys this way. Now I would argue we've taken it a little bit too far in the other direction. guys. Like, I get it. We don't got to kill people for missing games, but like, I'm not going to cry for Joel Embed because he got hurt playing basketball for his team. Like, I'm sorry. Like, that's what the money's for, fam. That's what you get paid to do. You get paid to play. I think my issue with it isn't so much the motivations that led him to play. Actually don't care. And I don't think that's relevant to the conversation. I think the issue,

My issue is that the NBA has a scheduling problem, which I've said in the past, and they're foisting it onto the players in order to make them show up for 82. I think the problem is 82. And we've seen that bear out over time, despite whatever bullshit medical expertise that Joe Dumars is giving to reporters about how road management isn't an actual thing. Like, I do think it would help the product and it would make the games more interesting if there were fewer of them. and I do think it would help people like Joel and Bid

to not play as often. But I mean, at the end of the day, he has been routinely hurt throughout his career. He's been routinely managed throughout his career. So, like, this was just the price of doing business for Juel and Bede. I actually don't care what pushed him to play in that game. But I also would say that, like,

an injury wasn't inevitable, and he probably shouldn't have given to go that game. But he made that call. Like, that's the thing is a player took into account the entire history of what he's been through and decided like, I want to try this. And whether that's a source of him being quote unquote bullied by people on the internet or not. I think I'm sympathetic to him because I also think you're discrediting the forces at play that are pushing him into making a decision.

If like an entire organization and like you winning a very award that meant a lot to you, for instance, and you couldn't give it a go on this podcast, but you pushed yourself to do all of the sound effects that we appreciate from you. but then you threw out your voice and you could no longer podcast for the year, like I would feel sympathy for you because I love hearing those sound effects from you. I think you can give sympathy to Joel Embed for injuring his meniscus

and also acknowledge his agency. Like, he made a call. And I think that's okay. I wish she didn't get hurt. Yeah. So what are we complaining about? Oh, I'm just complaining about the noise around the rule specific.

Like, whether there's this official 65 game limit for individual awards or not, to me, doesn't have a lot of bearing on whether anybody gets hurt. There are motivations in the marketplace that are driving players' behavior, and those are sometimes codified and they're sometimes not, but they've always existed. And we're just at a point in history right now where there's a number on it, and that makes it very easy to zero in on the countdown until Joel Embed isn't eligible for MVP anymore.

Listen, if y'all would have told me that every time Joel walked into the practice facility, Nicola Batum and Tyrese Maxi were muttering under their breath like, it's fucking guys, you ever gonna play? You know, or if Nick Nurse, every time Joelle came around, like, fucking pussy,

this guy doesn't even care about playing. Like, or if you're gonna tell me ownership was like, you know, showing up and be like, Joel, so what's up at your need? Like, you're not gonna play, like, if you're gonna tell me there was internal pressures

on this guy to play, the people around him, I'd be like, you know what? I would take a different, different tact on here. There's no evidence that any of that happened to this dude. He played because he plays because he's a player. I think I think pressures like result despite things being as pointed as you're suggesting. I mean, whatever. For sure. I want to get back to what Rob was saying about the 65 game rule,

though. I don't think the league did themselves any favor by trotting Joe Dumas out for an interview with, I believe, Yahoo Sports. And he was basically like, well, we just kind of just threw out 20 games as a possible like line of 20%? And everyone just seemed to agree as if he was like Vivek Renadeve in the room before the Stouskis pick where he's just like 20%, 20%, 20%, and everyone just said yes.

It doesn't help. But I have to say, I think we would have gotten to this point anyway because as I'm watching Tyrese Halliburton kind of limp his way through some of these games and come off the bench and play limited minutes, like I'm not going to vote for Tyreys Halliburton for all NBA if he can't play for half of a season. And so, like, I don't know if 65 games is the exact right amount.

I wish there would have been at least some, like, math or science to back that rather than Joe Dumas, just kind of throwing something out there. But having said that, like, around 60 games is about the time where I'm going to be questioning people's validity for these awards anyway. Like, we would have been, like, Joel plays 60 games. We're like, probably not going to give them the MVP. Yeah. There's not a lot of historical precedent of players winning individual awards.

with less than 65 games played. It doesn't really exist. That's literally my only issue with the edict. It's that the media and the voters already took this stuff into account. They were already pricing this stuff in. It kind of didn't need to be codified. It's just like so much of the shit that Adam Silver does. It's just like this signaling of like, we're taking the game seriously now.

Oh, yeah. Look at what we're doing. we're serious about the games and people playing. It's like, but it's just so clumsy and unnecessary. The voters were already doing this. And again, like 65 games is not like some crazy impossible threshold. Like, I'm sorry, dude. It's a reasonable amount of games to expect the guy to play.

What did Embed did he win, play when he won rookie of the year? Wasn't it like 50? No, it was not a lot. Yeah. It was like 30. Was it that few? It was 31. It was 31.

Yeah. In fact, he's only played over 65 twice in his career. Tough. Yeah. Before we move on, though, just quickly to circle back to like the Sixers at the deadline. One thing I will say is the Mavs did something similar last year by kind of putting their pedal on the tank. Petal. I don't know what I'm going for here.

Derek lively, very helpful player. Very good. play. I do think there's some logic to taking a step back to take a step forward eventually, especially because Maxi having to be on a max starting next year, your window really is now

in this offseason in order to really leverage the cap space that you've prioritized for so long. As long as you get a lively and not a Jai Oka for. Fandals putting the ball in your court for the rest of the NBA season because right now new customers get $200 in bonus bets with any winning

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$10 first deposit required, bonus issued as non-lawderabo bonus bets that expire seven days after. or see, see terms at sportsbook. Fandle.com. Deadline matchmaker, shall we? Let's do it. All right. Well, let's start since we're in the doctor's office.

Let's start with the Bulls, who also lost Zach Levine for the rest of the season. He basically been in and out of the lineup for about two months there with a foot injury, ops for surgery. Took himself out of the trade market. Yes. He didn't like the deals that were coming for him. And honestly, the one that we've heard the most of, leading into this decision was him going to Detroit.

So I can't blame him. But he's out four to six months. He is out for the season, off the market, presumably. Wise, what do you think? Did that change anything for the Bulls? Did he change anything for Levine? Not really. For the Bulls, no, Zach Levine is not really as well.

This is just another injury and a long line of him for this guy, this time in his foot. I laughed as you were reading that, Justin, because, you know, you guys are making fun of me for playing doctor on this show. Well, Zach Levine's doctor apparently is Rich Paul. Because if you read Shams Chirani's report when he broke the news that this was happening, this was in consultation with the team.

And Clutch advised him on whether or not to get surgery on his foot. I just thought that was just a fascinating way to share that news. But no, I'm not surprised. I don't think this changes anything for the Bulls. This has felt like a more bound lost season, essentially from the start. And yeah, it felt like Zach Levine was on his way out anyway. We were heading towards a Bulls future without Zach Levine anyway. This is just a different form of that. And so, yeah, I'm not in the least

bit surprised by any of this. Those are the playin-bound Bulls we're talking about. You know, they're going places with Zach Levine or not, it turns out. Well, I think the question is not, not being able to trade him, does it make you more likely to trade some of those other guys? And I think De Rosen is probably the most interesting one there, because having Levine's deal on the books, I wonder if that makes them less likely to want to bring De Rosen back in free agency. That would be the only one, Rob. So we're going to go through a variety of hot names on the market. And for the Bulls, the prompt is anyone on the Bulls.

So Levine is out. Where did you start, Rob? I went with Alex Caruso, who's very fun to shop around the league for a variety of reasons. Just a great fit for anyone who's trying to win right now, anyone whose defense needs shoring up. And my eye turned to the Sacramento Kings. Do I have a question first? If you're the Bulls, would you trade Alex Caruso? I wouldn't feel compelled to, but I think they're in a position where they could get a pretty good market going.

A pretty frothy, frothy market of multiple picks, of good young players, of guys. guys who, you know, if you are going to kind of pivot beyond the DeRosen-Levin era to a younger timeline, like Cruz's not an old player by any means, but he is pretty injury prone in a way that you have to acknowledge if you're looking at a longer-term rebuild. And he's also somebody who you could see flipping him for an even younger prospect just to kind of reset the timeline a little bit. So I took that with the Kings to mean, you know, mostly getting some viable wings in the door for salary reasons, Chris Duarte and Kessler Edwards, but really two protected first round picks from the Sacramento Kings for Alex Caruso.

The Kings have access to a lot of their own draft capital. They have a lot to do. So let's do something constructive that can actually help the arc of the team. And I'm thinking, you know, last season, the Bulls were inexplicably a top five defense with Caruso playing really well with a Nicola Vuccivic defense was top five in the league. Can we get a Domas Sabonis defense to a more respectable mark with the help of someone like Caruso? and I'm thinking Deeran Fox, Alex Caruso, Keegan Murray, that's a lot of defensive flexibility. That's a lot of tenacity on the perimeter.

And to be totally honest, Caruso is hitting more of his threes at a higher percentage than Kevin Herder is this season. So I don't really see what we're giving up there. I just see a big ad for a team that wants to be competitive. Yeah, I love that as an idea. Obviously, Sacramento, I think their offense is kind of tried and true. I think we all believe that they're the type of team that can score with anybody, Deeran Fox. obviously being, you know, he's up his level to superstar, star status, whatever you want to call it. He's so reliable with the ball in his hands at the end of games.

And they, you know, they have an actual legitimate offense. Like, they run shit. They run their stuff. And they run it successfully against a myriad of opponents. You know, they have many ways to slice and dice you on that. And we're all, like, pretty convinced that they're legitimate on that. And then the question remains the defense. And so Alice Caruso pretty much everywhere.

he's been, you know, the Lakers, the Bulls, like, he's changed the defense around. He makes you just better. Obviously, he's a great transition player. He can finally make a wide open shot. Like, let's not get it twisted. It's got to be wide open. And nothing else. Don't expect him to create much or anything like that.

But he's, yeah, he's the perfect complimentary piece, which is why I think a similar team, a team that's in a similar, I should say, state as. Sacramento is New Orleans. I think New Orleans should be looking into this because they themselves have a decent amount of picks. They could send a young guy or two back, just like you said, Rob. And I think Caruso slots perfectly into what they do,

especially since they play a really small guy in CJ, right? Like, he's a small point guard. And so Caruso next to him could help out plug a lot of holes. So I also had a deal for the Kings with the same sort of idea in my. mind, but it was for Bruce Brown. So I'm going to flash forward a bit because I like the logic of where we're going here. So my deal didn't involve picks, but it had to include players because of Bruce Brown's contract. I believe he makes around 20 million. I think it's 22 or something.

So the deal was for Kevin Herder and Chris Duarte. So on the one hand, you're trading players as opposed to picks. So maybe Toronto would value that more. Herder was recently traded for a first round pick. So you have to say his value is probably around there. Brown is a little bit more rugged than a Caruso, probably less of a shooter. So maybe for that reason, he isn't as much of a fit as Caruso.

But I like what he would bring to the defense for Sacramento. More specifically, I would love the new Toronto lineups for whenever they played Kevin Herder and Grady Dick together. Here we go. Which heretofore would be known as the Red Rocket. So did you reverse engineer a trade from the bit? No, the bit just came to me as a result.

Okay. All right, as long as it came to you, honestly, I can support it. Can we just sell the joke? Rob is really keen on bit integrity, just. That's what we're about here on group chat. It came honestly. Yeah. All right.

Unfortunately, I guess, yeah. This is what knocks around your head. Yeah. I mean, look, I like anything that kind of solidify the king's a little bit on the wing. I think the problem with both of these deals is I really I want even a little bit more size

than either Caruso or Brown. Those are two guys who do a very good job of playing bigger than they are, rebounding bigger than they are, guarding bigger than they are. But ultimately, if you trade for either one of those if you're the Sacramento Kings,

you're shoehorning a lot of Fox, one of those guys, Herder if you still have him, Malik Monk, all those guys are going to need minutes. And so all of your back courts are going to be fairly small. in a way that I don't love,

but I do love what guys like Brown and what guys like Caruso could do for that defense. When you're thinking about how to shore up the Kings, I think so much of the conversation goes to kind of the three-four spot. How do you take what Harrison Barnes gives you an improve upon it or change it or make it more dynamic? And all that stuff would help. But I think there's a lot of ways in which you can round out their back court too,

making everything a little bit more formidable, a little bit more manageable, all the weaknesses, like a little more tolerable. And that's kind of what we're getting at with both these constructions. Yeah, you guys know I'm hurt and hive to the death. I thought what he did last regular season with the spacing that he was providing, the movement shooting, I thought he was like indispensable to their, you know, to making their offense a little bit more dynamic.

And then the playoffs happened and the guy couldn't make a shot, right? And you wonder if that's a blip or if that will carry over. And I feel like that's what makes him expendable because he's a pretty, He's so much bigger than Bruce Brown is, right? Like, this guy's legitimately 6-7, 6-8. And sometimes plays like it on defense. But I could see why, you know, you might want to get a little bit more rugged at that three position.

And Bruce Brown is just more Swiss Army knife on offense, too. He's going to do a little bit more ball handling. Every now and again, he could get hot from the perimeter. But, yeah, he's going to slash in a way that Herder doesn't provide. he's a better transition player, obviously. He just brings a different dynamic, for sure. Yeah, to find guys who can play on the wing, who can hit shots, who can play at the king's pace,

who can play in their flow, that's a pretty small list of players. And I think we've isolated two of the, maybe the more attractive options that could be on the market. But Justin, since we fast forwarded to Bruce Brown, did you have any other Bowles trades you wanted to float? Yep. So I went the DeRosen route. And so I'm calling,

this the LeBron appeasement path because I ultimately ended up with three separate Lakers trades for three separate guys on this list. So you're flipping the hourglass. Yeah, exactly. But is it times up or is time just beginning? Start of a new era.

So DeRosen is a very tough one because on the one hand, he's a fringe all-star still. And yet he's going to be 35 in August, shouts to my Leo brother. and he's going to be a free agent in the offseason. And I have to believe if he was going to stay in Chicago,

we would have at least started to see some extension talks at this point. So I'm going to assume if the Bulls want to turn the page, they're just looking to get stuff back for DeRosen because they don't intend to bring him back in the off season. Right? And at that point, the math kind of changes in terms of what you're looking for here. So in order to just say to LeBron, hey, we're not going to go all in here.

We're just going to give you a guy and we're just going to play out the rest of the season. We don't think we can win it all this year. Let's just do our best, but we're going to give you a friend just so it looks good on paper. Derozen for Hachamura, Gabe Vincent,

who has all been forgotten at this point. I know he's been hurt, but he's a good player in the kind of Javon Carter mold, for instance, that I think the Bulls would appreciate. I think he works well with like the Kobe White's of the world. And then two seconds. two second round picks.

I don't think it's a lot for the Bulls, and so you can push back in that regard. But I do think, like, the Bulls are probably just looking to get good young players just to keep this thing rolling. They can't be too bad because next season they owe their draft pick to San Antonio. And the Lakers are basically the same team

with more offensive juice in there. It's now Russell, Reeves, LeBron, Derozen, Anthony Davis. Maybe they make the playoffs. maybe they make the second round. But that's the LeBrona Pisman path. What do you think about that? So the Bulls already have Pat Williams

and you want to give them Rui Hachamura too? You want to make them go through it? I don't think Rui Hachamura is as bad as this podcast would lend you to believe. I think he's a quality player. He's fine. He's fine. He's fine.

Yeah. Yeah. So you get a fine young player. A fine young lad. I suppose. it's not a lot for DeRosen but I agree that the market I don't think is going to give a lot for DeRosen

there's a reason why at this point in all the DeRosen trade rumors we're starting to tilt towards who are the teams that might acquire him as like a super sixth man type and it's because the incentives on the bull's side would be just to move him to move him because of the free agency you're talking about

and the incentives on the team acquiring him side are probably not to sign him to a longer term deal so much as like can we bolster what we're doing doing a little bit right now. And so from that perspective, I don't mind this for the Lakers at all. And I could see him on either kind of role for the Lakers, whether you start him or technically start him,

but he gets a quick hook and bring him back to be the sixth man or to be an actual sixth man. They just need a little bit more shot creation. They need a little bit more balance. He doesn't really do any of the things you need a Laker wing to do defensively, and he's not a three-point shooter in terms of spacing that you might want.

So I would try to space him and LeBron and AD out in the rotation a little bit. which makes it a harder sell of like we're getting a guy who can't necessarily play huge minutes with our best players. But he's going to make all the other lineups much better. That's for sure. Yeah, I think starting DeRosen, Austin Reeves, and DeLoh, I mean, we are stretching the limits and the depths of what AD can clean up on the back end. Like, that is a lot to ask for. The only thing that I do, I'm not obsessed with this deal, but the only thing that I do, but the only thing that I do,

do like about it in the LeBron appeasement factor is that he clearly doesn't want to do the responsibility of running an offense until it's like important time. And DeRosen absolutely fills that void. I think LeBron ultimately ever since Kyrie left Cleveland, he's been looking for that Kyrie type where it's just like I can take like six possessions off and just give the freaking guy a ball and just move out the way. Like that sort of energy. conservation method that he was using with him. And I think DeRose is that type of guy in terms of getting his own shot.

And of course, being a good setup guy, too. I think he's underrated in that regard. It's just defensively, man. He is tough. If the Laker group of big minute getters is going to involve D.Lo and Austin Reeves, like this gets tough fast, you know. And I think, you know, Tori and Prince,

God bless him. The guy's got cement in his shoes. You know, it's tough. It's tough to make the defense work around a DeRosan deal. So that is the appeasement path. And now I would like to turn, if you guys don't mind, to the win now plan, which is for DeJante Murray. So the whole big issue with the Lakers is that right now they only have one first round pick available to trade. If they do not trade that pick, they then have three available as soon as the draft because their 2024 pick has a deferral.

on it due to New Orleans. So New Orleans can decide whether or not to take the 2024 pick or take the 2025 pick. They actually have a bunch of picks still in their possession. The problem is the Steppian rule, et cetera. This just gets really nerdy, really quickly.

So that's the basic problem. So if I wanted DeRosen in there, maybe bring them back and then try to swing for the fences in the off season, you go the appeasement route. The win now plan is DeJante Murray, one we've been talking about for a while. The way I have it said it,

is a three-team trade where the Hawks get Evan Fornier's expiring contract from the Knicks. They get Jalen Hood-Chafino. They get a 20-29-first. They get a 20-28 swap. The Lakers get Murray. The Knicks get DeAngelo Russell here. So basically the Knicks just add some supplementary ball handling for the stretch run for Evan Fornees contract. Wow.

That would be an amazing deal for them. I don't know if you guys saw the game yesterday where basically the offense. just descended into the swamp. Seven scoreless minutes or something like that against the Lakers in the fourth quarter. Not great. They're playing presses at Chua at the four. It's gross out there.

Although, I'll just point out there, Austin Reeves, with the little behind the Jalen Brunson's back pass out to the wing. I don't know if you guys caught that one. That was a thing of beauty. But I've been thinking a lot about, Rob, your point from last week's pod. We're like, well, what's in this for the Hawks?

I've been watching the Hawks a lot. on the one hand, I want to say Genente Murray is probably now underrated compared to like the way he's talked about. I think he was overrated for a while but there's been such a rebuke of his game. Like I think even last night's game against the Warriors where he kind of

shut it down toward the end there. It's just like a prime example that this guy still has some stuff here. Probably more advantageous as a pass or setup guy and so like the shooting is a problem. But I do wonder if for instance Reeves is coming around here Murray fits kind of that

slot better than even the other guys we've talked about. So that sort of Kyrie set them up mode, then run the second unit. But for the Hawks, I actually think they have something with like the core in air quotes of Trey Bogdan Bogdanavich, Jalen Johnson, Anheko, Kongwu. Like there's something there. It's not fully formed yet, but I think Johnson is very good. Yeah. And I do think that Bogie, for instance, is a.

better backcourt fit than Murray ever was. I think the idea of getting a more of a ball handler next to Trey was a good idea. I think it's borne out that that was the problem that Trey wants to hold the ball so much and he wants to pound the air out of the ball that what you want next to him is someone more of like a typical two who's going to shoot there. And so what do the Hawks get in this trade? Well, they get draft equity back for one. But I actually think this more than anything is a trade for Trey Young. We're basically saying we're going to revert back to what made you good in the first place, what led to us to the Eastern Conference Finals in the first place, and we're just going to try to build around that slowly as much as we can. What do you think about just that

idea overall, Rob? Yeah, I think any construction that involves DeAngelo Russell and DeJante Murray, you should try to reroute DeAngelo Russell somewhere else and get the Hawks something, whether it's a pick, another swap, another young player, like anything like that is going to be more materially interesting to their situation and what this team ultimately needs to be. Now Atlanta is a team that is going to need a backup ball handler behind trade. It's something that's been like a constant

problem for them, even during some of the Murray seasons. They haven't always been able to get their heads on their shoulders in some of the Dejante only minutes either. Like this is a team that's had a lot of problems, to be honest. But I like this a little better. And honestly, I think within this construction, there's probably room to squeeze a little

more out of the Knicks too. If the Knicks are trading Evan Forney and getting DeAngelo Russell, can we get some draft capital out of them? Can we get something from them that could be of interest to Atlanta beyond even just these things? Yeah, I mean, I don't know. The Murray thing is interesting

because, you know, the guy made an all-star team. He's gotten paid twice. Obviously, people value what he brings to the table. My question is, what position is this guy play? Like, can anybody tell me? I think he's a point guard. So he's a point guard. I actually think he needs to be the one driving

the offense most of the time. My issue is like if you're playing with LeBron, for instance, in Crunchtime, LeBron's going to have the ball, are you going to be able to shoot well enough in order to play off of him? But I do think he does all the rest of the stuff you'd want next to LeBron. Yeah, I think if he could come into L.A. and, you know, figure out how to play off of LeBron and AD, you know, use them to his advantage as far as, you know, running some two-man stuff and, like, developing an actual chemistry, obviously that would be cool. I just wonder if Darvin Ham is the guy that's going to convince this dude to guard people again. I wonder about that.

I truly do. DeAngelo Russell would be great in the quickly mode for New York. That's a no-brainer. And like you said, obviously they need offensive juice on the ball. Julius Randall, as much as he's taking some lashings on this show. They miss him. He's their second best offensive player. They miss him.

They need his creation. So, you know, just the idea that Julius Randall could be out and your office just turns into, you know, a stick in the mud. It's awful. It's just with Baby Boy, I just really do wonder if he's ever going to play defense ever again, you know, which is why I kind of wish, and I got to admit, I'm stealing this from a friend of the show.

I don't want to say the name right now. But he was like, yo, it would have been nice if the he would have put their stuff in. It's not LeBron. It would have been nice if the heat put their hat in for, Dejante Murray because I have all the confidence that Spoke could have talked this guy into playing defense again. I think he would have been a great heat.

But yeah, I just wonder if Darvin Ham is going to be the guy to pull it out of him to turn Murray into the person that his biggest fans think that he can be and not the guy that he's shown himself to be too often in Atlanta. Yeah, we've talked about the Murray fit with the Lakers

a lot. And for the record, if they can get a deal done with the assets they have, they should absolutely do it. You take those defensive questions and you try to figure it out. Dejante Murray is a really talented player. I think you could really help them a lot. I think that's the question, though, because it really is the same conversation we've been circling for a lot of these teams.

It's like, do you take Dejante Murray because you can get Dejante Murray, presumably? Or do you wait until the offseason where you have more draft capital? On the one hand, like, who is that guy? And at this point of the season, you're probably already setting feelers out and hearing things about the guys you could get over the off season. But for instance, if it's Mitchell, the Cavs have been incredible of late.

I think they're like, what, the three seed at this point? Does that change his calculus? And for instance, does Jalen Brunson being the guy in New York? Does that mean that the Lakers, for instance, could trade for Mitchell? And all of a sudden, it's like,

if it's Mitchell versus Murray, I'm going to wait for Mitchell. Oh, for sure. But LeBron is going to be, what, 40 next year? He's already 39 years old. One of the greatest players to ever play is 39 years old and still

an all-n-n-n-B-a-level performer. You have to compete. You have to continue. you to play. And the Lakers right now, odd win against the Knicks aside, are mildly competitive and they need to be more so. This is so inconsistent. I agree with you. Although this is also the problem we've gotten into every year with the Lakers where it feels like they're resetting every half season at this point. They're not even waiting for the full season reboot like they're on Friday night lights or something like that. And because they're cycling so quickly,

they're often missing guys who are playing pretty well on other teams because they're trying to rush guys into service that shouldn't. And so like on the one hand, yes, LeBron is very old. On the other hand, LeBron's been very old for a while. Hasn't mattered. And so like if they had just used prudence once over the past couple of years, it probably would have benefited for them. I mean, I think they've been pretty prudent some of their moves.

I think the trades that they've made have been pretty good, pretty successful, even against my own skepticism that they would work. I think the Russell Westbrook was just like a complete catastrophe that they're still digging themselves out of to where it's like, yeah, they did well last deadline. And from what you hear, they're just people of role players. Obviously that's eroded Braun's credibility with the front office because that was something he's so clearly spearheaded. And I think LeBron has even, he gained some humility from that was like, maybe this GM thing is a little bit more overrated than I thought. Well, he's got a nice home with the clippers All your winged out for Russell Westbrook.

Yeah. I think everybody's happy with how that ultimately turned out. Russ is in a better place. The Lakers are in a much better place. And they're in a position whether it's Murray or somebody else to go after someone with this collection of like, you know, Dale Hooghifino, that 2029 pick. Like there's a case to be made here for somebody.

And whether you think Murray is that or not, I think is a fair question. I hear your point, Justin. And also, you know, just to get this out there, if you listen to some of the rumblings that are out there, they're already thinking about their next superstar pursuit. Their next young, hot shot, Laker acquisitions. So they might not be too keen on just like moving the world for LeBron Jane,

the end of his prime, end of his career, right? So who knows? What a shame. The win now plan, Justin. it's in shambles in the shadow of the next superstar. I gotta say there's some, there's some logic to that as well because people forget that Anthony Davis is like,

yes, a veteran at this point, but he's like 30. There's like gonna be years after LeBron leaves where like you could be competitive with like, for instance, a Mitchell NAD plus stuff. Like this can go on if you're just like you make the next right move.

But anyway, I think I'm just skeptical that they'll ever be in the Donovan Mitchell range of what they could act, that they could actually get into those trade talks. like Dejante Murray, we're having these conversations because he's somewhat of a distressed star because of the Hawke situation and because he hasn't played great.

Donovan Mitchell is awesome and is going to demand a lot more than a 2029 pick and Jalen Hood-Shafino to get a deal done. No, it would be three. It'll be three firsts. Okay. All right. But that's actually, I mean, that's how these things go.

When guys are about to hit free agency, they have more leverage about where they want to go. But we don't have to get into that conversation. Do you guys have any more Dejante Murray trades? I do. If yours is the win now plan, Justin, I'm going to a different team for the try now plan. The Utah Jazz get DeJante Murray.

The Hawks get Keante George, two first round picks, and Evan Fournier's contract, and the Knicks get Jordan Clarkson. Hmm. So the Hawks are recouping some picks. They're getting a good young guard, who is probably going to have to come off the bench,

can play some with Trey, but really is kind of a longer-term piece for them. Ultimately, my motivation is, I know the jazz have come down to earth pretty hard recently, but the fact that they have these great runs in them that they can't sustain makes me want to add to that team more than take away from it. And I'm having the idea of Markanin and Murray and Colin Sexton, who's played great this season,

that is kind of the core of where the jazz could be in the near term. And then you see what you can go around that with, you know, Walker Kessler, with, you know, Chris Dunn's giving them good minutes. You see kind of who of these role players can stick. But that is being a competitive, core for a team that could actually challenge for, you know, certainly a playing spot and maybe even for a playoff spot. Yeah, I mean, the 10-game winning streak or whatever it was was really nice.

I have a hard time believing the jazz execute on a trade where we don't say, oh, Danny Green, excuse me, Danny Ains fleeced them again, you know, so like they typically don't, Danny Ains anyway, doesn't do those kinds of deals, right? I don't know. I feel bad for, I feel bad for Murray sending him to a team that's like sort of in limbo. Like, we don't even know if they're trying or not half the time, right? Like, what direction is the team going in where, like, last year they overachieve like a mug and then they stripped it down.

So, like, do we even know what they want to be? Do they trust that they have a core for like a nice, you know, 48 win team next year? I don't know. But, you know, I would enjoy seeing what Will Hardy could get out of this guy. We definitely don't know what they want. Five best coaches in the NBA right now. Will Hardy has done a really, really great job. I mean, genuinely, all the stories about his work with Sexton in particular

and kind of cleaning the slate on a player who had a very dicey reputation professionally and giving him a chance to prove himself in a different situation, like that's legit great coaching. That's exactly what every coach in the NBA should be doing. And yet, understandably, a lot of them are colored by reputation, by what they've heard from other coaches, from what they understood to be true about a player versus what actually could be true.

And if you put your players in a position to prove something like that, that's a really powerful thing. And I wonder if Murray could benefit from some of that too in terms of we're talking about who can get Dejante Murray back to playing great defensive basketball to be a pressure guy picking up opponents full court in addition to being a good point guard. And that's where I like the jazz as a potential fit for him.

I like that Murray is under contract for a little while. Because if you're the jazz, you have to have that. You have to have the cost certainty that he's going to be there and not want to ask out as soon as he can. On the other hand,

if I'm the jazz, I'm not boxing myself into this team quite yet. I think the decision with Markin is a little differently because you already have him in house. So if you're going to trade him, you're actively pushing the button to say that we, want to be worse. And then the future becomes a little bit more muddled there. If I'm adding

Murray on top of that, I'm saying like, that is my team. And when I'm at the stage where I'm probably looking to have more home run upside on whatever I'm short of doing. And so for me, like trading a CAF's pick or future Wolves pick, that gives me the possibility of adding something way more exciting than a Murray who like two years from now is Keante George about what Murray's giving you. I could see it. Maybe not. But like I could see. That's a steep, that's a steep, that's a steep hill to climb. County George is a good prospect. Johnte Murray.

He's a nice, he's a nice player, but I think it's a little early to be projecting that out of him at this moment anyway. He'd be a good fit for Trey, I think, because he's already working around seven different types of guards in his Utah lineup. There you go. Yeah, I'm starting to wonder, besides the Jalen Johnson, rim running, attack sort of bigs, who are these great fits around Trey? Oh, yeah, that is the big problem, but you're kind of stuck with him at this point. If someone else wants to trade for Trey, I would entertain those. But I do think, man, Jalen Johnson's really good.

I think he works well off of, works well off of Trey. O'Congu's been playing pretty well of late. Like, there's something there. Like, I know I'm talking myself into it, but like they're not as way behind the eight ball as I think people are projecting the mess. Well, and Jalen Johnson and guys like him are a little different than your Clint Capella types.

So I think there's kind of two ranges of player there. There's the really dynamic wing who can catch high on the floor and handle the ball and do some stuff in transition like Johnson. And then there's the pure rim runner finishers that every team can use kind of like a rim running five. And few point guards don't work well with those kinds of players. But Trey's a really good lob passer. Like a really good and direct option to get those guys engaged and involved in ways that other point guards aren't.

Was, do you have a Murray trade? I don't, I'm baffled by the interest in, in Dejante Murray, honestly. Like, what he's shown in Atlanta is just not very encouraging. And the deal that he's already signed, which, like, granted, 30 million a year is not a crazy amount for an obvious starter. It's just, I'm down on this, dude. I don't know why a serious team that isn't like, you know, that clutch isn't a major client of would be dying to bring this dude into their building, to be honest, man. Like, I'm surprised by how much his name is in things because he doesn't, he's not this obvious fit, right? Like, when we think about OG An An Anobie, who was another one of these guys, who's just been in trades for what felt like three years straight of being in trades.

It was just obvious. Like, any team that brings him in, they're going to ask him to do this. He's going to do it very well. It's going to make sense. I don't see that for Murray. It's like you've got to be a little bit more creative than that. And I don't know who has the gravitas to bring this guy in and get him to conform to some of the old ways. Some of the stuff that I quite frankly fell in love with his game for, which admittedly was the defense and stuff.

When he started showing, you know, a mid-range and an ability to make a job, jump shot consistently. That was a revelation. Because you guys remember for a while, San Antonio was just drafting and quote unquote developing bricklayer after brick layer after brick layer. And then Murray finally, you know, broke through with a consistent jump shot. But then, you know, he's become a guy who just doesn't seem very useful in the way that he applies his skill right now. So I don't know who's the team that's dying for this guy.

Yeah, I think it's a good point. I do think Murray is pretty good, and I think in a different situation, maybe he would be better. But I do think this is more of like the market, yeah. If the Lakers didn't have this obvious clutch connection, would we be saying like Murray is this obvious person that they'd be trying to get into their building?

I don't think so. I think maybe on availability. Yes. I think like there's just no other person to turn to on the market at this point. The fact that we can't even drum up Zach Levine interest, like I think it's just to show you that there aren't a lot of names of the market. But maybe we'll be surprised. Maybe there will be other guys thrown out there.

Obviously, the bucks would be thirsty to get somebody like that in their building. They don't have anything to give up for him. No. Right? Of the teams that could put some stuff together, you know, Brooklyn, for instance, if they want to fool themselves into thinking, oh, we can make ourselves a serious playoff team, they could put some of their picks together or whatever and try to get Murray in there. but like, but that gets you all excited.

Yeah, the issue with Murray for teams... Dejante Burry and the Barclays. For teams like that, when you really think about Dejante Murray's place in the NBA, he is a kind of player who could augment the Bucks or the Lakers, established cores. But when you're thinking about him in trades like mine,

where it's like, oh, this is one of our guys. This is one of our core players. When we did our NBA rankings, I think he ended up as like maybe the 16th or 17th ranked point guard. in our ranking. And so that's kind of what you're aiming for. Is like do we want an average,

like maybe a slightly above average starting point guard? And is that enough to get us anywhere that we want to go? And I think where you want to go obviously varies pretty widely, depending on the franchise. And it's why when you think about smaller market teams or teams that haven't had as much success in the playoffs recently who were just thirsty for a taste of something, those could be good fits for him

in addition to the higher end teams that obviously would love to to fit him into a smaller role alongside their established stars. Yep. That's also the play in race, just kind of chilling the market to a certain extent. Everybody wants to add, right? And it doesn't seem like there are a lot of sellers. So the hawk stepping forward and saying,

hey, we have Murray. Like, that's just one player out of a very few amount of players that are seemingly giving an upside. Another team in the playing mix is the Orlando Magic, who we've been trying to get them a quote unquote guard forever now. I'm taking the ball out of the hands of Paolo and Franz so I could give it to Dejante Murray? No, probably not.

No, you're not. But I wouldn't do it for Simons. Oh, yeah. I'm not under the impression Simons is super gettable. I mean, I'm sure there's the right offer out there that exists, but I don't think he's someone in Portland is eager to move by any. I think he's showing people that he's on a great deal. Um, he's bona fide bucket getter.

He's, he's off the market. Um, all right. We're running out of time here. So should we flash to the LeBron trades at this point? Let's do it. Please. Let's do it. The fan fiction?

Let's do it. Are you saying these aren't real? So here's the thing. Why are we trading? What are we doing? What are we doing? But hold on, Rob. No, but seriously though.

One, that report that came out that the Lakers were looking for trade partners, I think it's a legitimate report. That dude is not, like he's been right. The local KTLA guy? Yes, on some Lakers stuff. That's what I love about the trade deadline. This stuff is great. That's a one.

Two, why did Clutch and LeBron go to Wendy and be like, yo, LeBron's, why did they feel the need to refute this thing? Why would they do that? Why would they do that if it was just some local, Yoko, who doesn't know anything, why would the two of the most powerful people in the league going out of their way to squash that report? Like, that tells you that there was something there. Maybe LeBron and Rich Paul talked to Jeannie and Rob and was like, yo, we're not, we like being

here. We're going to stop crying in public and weird emojis and all of that. We're chilling, like, don't worry type of thing. And it was like, all right, we've patched things up. But, like, that was real. You know, and then, and again, Clutch has a lot of clients. But why is it coming out that Rich Paul and La Familia out in New York, the CAA guys, because people don't know this, but World Wide West and all of them,

they had a falling out with LeBron and his team. You know, he used to be a big part of what LeBron was doing. They had a falling out. So I don't take these coincidences. They're not coincidences. I think these things are connected, right? I'm sorry. I'm not putting the tinfoil hat on.

Did you realize you were getting into another true detective podcast today? I did not. I did not. I had just put my yarn away. Oh, my God. I don't even know where to start with all that. Well, how about this? LeBron James,

I'm playing for the Knicks. I've had that thought in my career. That's a, that's a context. That's a context stripped quote. He was literally talking about 2010. Listen, his thing. Here's the thing. The reason why the Lakers trading LeBron,

it really couldn't make sense unless LeBron signed off on it, right? Because he's basically, he could become a free agent this summer. And if you trade for him and he doesn't want to be there, we know LeBron's going to make a stink. So if the Lakers want to get something back for LeBron, he would have to okay it.

And again, Rich Fall sort of talking to the powers that be, in New York, like, yo, it's going to be fine. This is insane. I can see the Knicks happening. And from talking to some people, I can see Golden State happening too. He would absolutely love to play with Steph. Absolutely. But yeah, Knicks for me, picks.

They got picks. Make the salaries work. Get LeBron in the garden. I mean, clearly he's. obviously supplant freaking Julius Randall. Jalen Brunson to do his Kyrie of imitation.

This thing is a, it's a no brainer. This is a no brainer. It is a no brainer. There's no brain in anything that's happening right now. Here's the trade to the Knicks. I have this just sketched out for you guys.

Julius Randall, Mitchell Robinson, Quentin Grimes, and the Wizards 2024 first. Wow. Top 12. That's a lot. That's a lot.

That's a lot. Hall. And you know why they do it? Because they want to stay in the star game. Because the Lakers whole MO since getting LeBron, since before getting LeBron was we are the destination for your stardom, just like come play for the Glamer franchise, et cetera, et cetera. It didn't work for a while until LeBron got there. But if you want to stay in that business and keep cash in those small business loan checks, this is how you stay in that. Rob, what do you think about this deal for the next? you're going to make me actually break this thing down.

Is that the X and O's? How does he fit with Jill and Brunson? Yeah. We still got Hartinstein in New York. That's right. We do. I say Hartstein's a guy, by the way. Really good.

Really, really good. You got to resign him. I would trade Mitchell Robinson just to start him going forward. Yeah. Mitchell Robinson's awesome, too. I love what they're doing with their center position there. Obviously, you have to sort out kind of who's able to. the play how much when Mitchell Robinson comes back

because Hart and Seen has played his way into more opportunity, but I don't think a LeBron James trade is necessarily the way, the most plausible way that will happen. Though if you're the Knicks, I encourage it. Do you have a LeBron idea? I mean, nothing good that isn't already out there. Like, I think of the warrior stuff is floating in the ether. The heat stuff is floating in the ether.

And the heat package is basically the same dame package. Just we know who Jaime Hawke is now, and that's more attractive and punches that deal up. But I think the problem I have with even entertaining this thought experiment is, are you putting a package together for LeBron James the franchise player? Or are you putting a package together for LeBron James, the possible free agent? Because those are very different trade packages. We're putting a package together to go out and win the fucking East this year.

The next with that group could do that, yeah. Hartenstein, Devincentenzo. that's a killer starting five, bro. You didn't even mention Deuce McBride. Didn't even mention them. Doos McBride locking people up. Oh, my God. This is a squad, boy.

This is a squad, boy. Breaking news, team that adds LeBron James potentially in a deal is a squad. I have to say, though, the Golden State possibility reminds me too much of like the Carmelone Gary Payton Lakers of like, let's just get all the

old guys together. What was that movie with like Morgan Freeman? The Bron and Steph Curry is that's, that's, that's trouble. What's the movie? Yeah, it'd be way better. But like, what's the movie with Morgan Freeman where all the old guys get together and like go for one last? The different old guys. I don't think that is. I'll look it up, but.

I don't even know, I don't even know the Morgan Freeman movie you're talking about, but it's big space cowboys energy of just like put a bunch of old guys in a space shuttle or launch them into orbit. That's, that's definitely what it would feel like. is one called Going in Style. I think it might be that one. I believe it. You know, you know, I was watching In Too Deep this morning,

and I think we're in too deep on the trade. I think so, too. We've officially murdered Rob with this LeBron trade chat. I will say, though, I put in the chat before we did this podcast, hey, these are the guys that we're going to try to match me here. Didn't hear a peep. from Rob then. I'm respecting your process.

Thank you. I'm respecting the process. Doing it for the content, Justin. So, Justin, besides the Knicks and the Warriors, who do you think are other good LeBron teams? What about the magic?

No, I'm kidding. No, I think he goes anywhere else. I'm so upset. This is all situation. How did my life lead me here? What about the king?

goes to the Kings. The ultimate king goes back to where he started his career in Sacramento. You think the Lakers are trading LeBron James to the Sacramento Kings? And I say that now... The Harman's and some Flatsum. There are some rivalries that never meant. I don't think the Lakers kings are doing like superstar trades anytime soon. That's probably true.

All right. Unfortunately for Andrew Wiggins and Bruce Brown, I think we've run out of time here. But we'll talk about them, I'm sure, down the road. On that note, thank you to Jack Sanders on production. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Check us out on Thursday. Not dropping on Wednesday, as per usual. We'll be there Thursday right after the deadline.

Come listen to us at your favorite podcast streamer, possibly Spotify, maybe, but also we'll be streaming live on YouTube. We'll see you then on Thursday. See it. Must be 21 plus and present in Select States. Fanduel is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit Fandul.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, Vermont, and Virginia. Call 1-800 Next Step or text next step to 533-4-2 in Arizona.

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