The Ringer NBA Show - Trade Deadline Week Is Here and the Big Hitters Get Busy | Heat Check (Ep. 380)

Episode Date: February 4, 2019

The Lakers, Celtics, Knicks, and Sixers are making noise as the trade deadline approaches (3:39), while the New Orleans Pelicans are still looking to move Anthony Davis (35:14). Host: John Gonzalez Guests: Jonathan Tjarks, Micah Peters, Zach Kram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Liz Kelly. With the Super Bowl and the books, I wanted to let you know about all of our coverage across the site. We have Kevin Clark, Robert Mays, Roger Sherman, and more breaking down every aspect of the game, including winners and winners and losers' players from the game, including down the game. Be sure to watch and subscribe to our channel on YouTube.com slash The Ringer. Welcome to Heat Check. I'm your host John Gonzalez, joined once again by my producer who was out last week, off his deathbed. He was very sick, but now so healthy, Isaac Lee. I have revived. I have been rejuvenated, but yesterday's game, I feel like, has once again put me in my deathbed. You are an Angelino, and you have newfound Rams fandom, right? Yeah, I mean, they've been here for a few years now, so I feel like I can say that I'm an established Rams fan. I don't really care about football, though. This is amazing. This is the most L.A. take ever. They've been here for. three years, so that's established fandom. I love Los Angeles. It's a transplant city, you know?

It is a transplant city. I will say this. I was rooting for your guys because the Patriots are a scourge upon a pox upon our country. Yes. And they continue to be once again. And it was a garbage game and a garbage outcome. And I just want to remind everybody, now that you've got another year of the defending Super Bowl champion being the New England Patriots, how great it was when Philadelphia was the defending champions. And I bet America Pines for the days of us, commandeering trash trucks and punching police horses and being very excited. It wasn't that much better. It was

much better. We're much more humble. Speaking of while we're talking about the NFL, I want to give shouts to the ringer NFL crew. Danny, Kevin, Robert, and Roger absolutely killed it from Atlanta. All their content is up on the ringer.com. You want to listen to the NFL show as well. And I want to thank you for listening to the NBA show. Please rate and review us in all of our fantastic podcast if you would be so inclined. And don't forget to check out all of our excellent content on the ringer.com. It's trade deadline week, gang. Big, big week in the NBA, we've got our trade deadline tracker. Chris and Justin had a rational conversation about one Kyrie Irving, who we'll talk about

later on in the program. KOC and Shay did a joint piece where they drafted the 2019 All-Stars, just like LeBron and Janus will eventually. It's hilarious. I highly recommend that piece. KOC and I also did a whole bunch of trade deadline videos that we'll be rolling out all week long running up to Thursday's trade deadlines. So you want to check that out on the site.

And real quick, while we're talking about teamwork here, Miles Surrey and Andrew Grittadaro wrote a joint piece about Hobbs and Shaw. Maybe you guys know this. I'm not sure. I probably talked about it on He Check before. I am a massive, fast and furious franchise person. I've seen every single one of them, I don't know how many times, 50 times each maybe. It's the only thing I watch other than the NBA.

I'm so here for Hobbs and Shaw, Miles and Andrew, please bring me with you when you go to the screener. So check out that piece as well. Lots of stuff happening. Later on in the program, we'll talk about Anthony Davis with our resident. New Orleans correspondent Michael Peters and also Zan Cranble be here to talk about Anthony Davis. He wrote a very interesting piece about the way that the Pelican squandered AD.

But first, we've got so many other things to talk about. And for that, we need somebody who's versatile. Let's bring him in. All right, joining me on the other line. He's a staff writer, and you can hear him every Friday as one third of the corner three. It's Jonathan Charks. What's up, Charks? Well, a lot of basketball's happening. Rodney Hood's been traded, so you know things get a great serious.

Yeah, we're going to play the hits here. but we should start with this trade. The Blazers acquired Rodney Hood in exchange for Sauce Castillo, Wade Baldwin, two second round picks. Somehow,

we don't have to spend a lot of time on this. Somehow Rodney Hood is still relevant and was like much sought after because there aren't any wings in the NBA that you can go out and get and he was one of them and the Blazers got him. Yeah, I mean,

he's tall, he's athletic, he can shoot. That's pretty much expected. I'll keep you employed apparently. Does this move the needle for the Blazers? I think it helps, him. I mean, I do think he's

like what I'm Sauskastka's Theo, though, so... Yeah, he's definitely an upgrade over Nick, but I'm with you. I have long been a Rodney Hood truther, believer, whatever you want to call it, and hasn't worked out so far. Yeah, I mean, he really... Yeah. So, I mean, I think this year

in Portland, they don't have much else going on. But I think this should... I mean, it gives them more bench scoring. That should help them somewhat. Yeah, Godspeed to both Rodney Hood and the Blazers. That's enough Rodney Hood talk. All right, there's a lot of other very interesting things happening in the NBA. We're going to do something, and Isaac,

as the resident Heat Check historian, tell me if this is true. We have never on this show talked about the Lakers. No, not once. For the first time ever on Heat Check, we were going to talk about the Lakers. A lot of stuff happening here. It's unprecedented.

It's unprecedented. It's never happened before. You'd think they're a big team in a big market. You'd think we would have talked about them by now. A lot of things happening for them. We'll start with Riley McAtee, who is really enjoying himself lately. He tweeted out yesterday.

It's February 3rd. and the Kings have a better record than the Lakers, which is true. They lost to the Warriors without LeBron because LeBron was load managing, is what he said, which fucking fantastic. Things not going well, Charks, in L.A. Apparently there was a post-game locker room dust up between Luke Walton and some of his players. According to Shams, he tweeted out that Luke Walton preached to players on playing unselfishly, sources said, which cost several veteran players to snap back at him.

And one source described it as a heated scene. an emotionally charged verbal exchange with Luke Walton that stopped short of being physical. The veteran players were apparently Beasley, Lance, and Javale McGee. Wow, it's going great. I mean, who could have predicted you'd find a bunch of guys known for being erratic? You give them one-year contracts, and then you dangle them and trade offers for weeks. Who knew that would have been fall off in their faces? It's hard to predict.

It's not going great for Luke. It's been a tough year for him. Apparently, the veteran players raised their voice on top of the top of, of Walton's playing time, his rotations, how he's handling them. The hope afterward among players and coaches was that this helped cleanse issues with the team. I don't think so. I don't think so because this goes back to, we've been hearing rumblings all year long that Luke was in trouble. And it was only like a week ago, Charks that Jackie McMullen from ESPN was on Win Horse's Pod and said

that there was a lot of tension in the building. And that it was clear to her after talking to people in LeBron's camp that they wanted a coaching change and that they were, quote, not too subtle about it. So, I don't know. I mean, should they make a change? Is this fair to hang this on Luke? I mean, if LeBron doesn't like a massive or something, right? What LeBron says goes at all.

That's what I'm saying? Like, one, he didn't ask for all these injuries, right? It's not his fault that these guys were out for so long, so many of them, and that one of them was LeBron James and that just after returning all of a sudden, he's decided that he can't play again because of, again, quote, load management. And he didn't sign all these people either. Like, Magic Johnson went out and signed a bunch of it. of hand grenades, then pulled the pins

and said, here, hold these Luke Walton, and now that they're exploding, he's blaming Luke Walton. Well, I will say this, though. It isn't like Luke... No, no, I agree with you. I think, like, if they change out the coach, that's fine. I just think, like, we should point out the fact here that if I was Luke Walton, I'd be like,

what the fuck is going on here? Like, I didn't do any of this. Anyway, so there's all kinds of crazy stuff going on with the Lakers, up to and including the fact that their roster that right now is not getting along so great, might be overhauled at the trade deadline. The LA Times is reporting that the latest offer for Anthony Davis charts is Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Brandon Ingram, Ivakiz, Zubotch, and a first-round pick.

And the LA Times is reporting that the Pelicans are expected to counter and ask for two first-round picks. What do we think of that deal? Should the Pelicans make it? Should the Lakers make it? Is it a good idea for either side? I mean, I think for sure if you know, the Lakers, you have to make it. They don't have any plan B at this point. I think if you're in New Orleans, you know you have them in your back pocket.

And I think if you're known, you have to shot that off for a round two those down. Yeah. Part of me thinks that deal will still be there in the summer and maybe the Pelicans should wait.

But at the same time, like, I'm not sure that that, like, cash of picks that the Celtics have is as good as everybody believes it to be. I mentioned this on the pod last week.

And that's a lot of young talent to get back for a guy who doesn't want to play for you. Like, and if you're another team and you keep hearing over and over and over again that if you go and trade for Anthony, Davis, he's just going to be a rental player and he's going to walk.

And I know that we've got the Paul George situation. Everybody likes to bring that up. But like, this is a lot of talking about he doesn't want to be anywhere but L.A. I would be really hesitant to trade for him and think that I could just convince him to stay. This is not a bad offer from the Lakers. So here's my thing, though. Like, yeah, he wants to go to L.A., but he can't go to L.A. this summer.

So, like, if you have to make him wait until 2020, how do we know L.A., how he's going to be at that point? LeBron's a year older. More injuries possible. possibly. And the other thing, too, is, like, if they're waiting for Anthony Davis from a year and a half, like, that's going to be a very, very unstable situation. So just, like, being in Dallas, like, okay, summer. But the problem with doing that is, like, they have a team, playing for new contracts. There's no stability or continuity. And then, like, let's have to wait for days for two years. Well, if Anthony Davis, I don't know, but. Yeah, that's a fair point. I still think that this is an offer that the Pelicans have to really, really consider. I mean, if they can counter and get two first-round picks in a to all that young talent that's still all those guys are on their rookie contracts, super cheap deals. Ingram will be up for an extension soon. But what do you think Ingram's worth is?

Like, what's his value? I've been trying to figure this out. I've been asking different people. Kevin O'Connor is higher on him than I am. Like, I think he could be good. I really liked when they made him like Point Ingram last year when ball was out. But I don't think he's like as good a shooter as he's as he probably should be. He's not as good a defender as he probably should be.

He's a good, okay passer, but he's not as good at that as he should be. it's all about like forecasting what he might be one day, but right now I don't know what to make of him. So here's the thing about Ingram. Like Ingram, I think he's seen, he kind of has to be the featured guy, right? He doesn't really shoot that well. So if you trade for him,

your trading form to be your primary piece, and we don't really know how good he can be at the primary piece. And you can't have that much type of 10 years, number two anywhere. Yeah. It's really an unknown, it's just a gamble, how much you, and to me, I think,

depending on how aggressive other teams around the league want to be, I believe there are better offers for the Pelicans than Ingram Monzo and picks that would not be that value. Yeah, you're right. The picks, depending on how many they get back, I think it's probably not as good as the Celtics offer.

But again, I'm still not as sold on, like, everybody just going, well, they've got those four picks, so it makes them like the front runner if the Pelicans just wait until July 1. Where are you, though, on Lonzo? Again, sort of like a divisive figure around the ringer? I like Lonzo. I think Lonzo figured out,

despite the shooting, in spite of the free throws. I think Lonzo's a solid starting point guard. He can play on or off the ball. I mean, to me, Ingram and Lonzo is a good package,

but I'm doing like a piece right now on, like, potential all-in teams for AD. Like, I think that's a better... I love, too,

that Lonzo's like, yeah, I don't want to go there. Like, like, already, he's like, I don't want to go to New Orleans. And,

I mean, like, from everybody I've heard from, it's like, you don't get a say in this. Nobody's listening to what Lonzo Ball wants, but I love that his people are out there trying to maneuver already and get him rerouted to another

team. What's your best bet on whether or not the Lakers are going to make the playoffs? Right now, according to 538, they've got a 26% chance to make it. According to ESPN's predictive model, they've got a 15.6% chance to make it. Wow. It's pretty low. Both sites have them finishing at 500.

My thing is, how do you calculate for LeBron? If he's got to play, it's hard for me to imagine them missing the playoffs. Yeah, and I mean, you look at the West. So I think LeBron can get him into eight at the very least. I mean, one of the Bronons they tell. As we record this, they are a game and a half behind the Clippers, and a half game behind Riley McHugh's Sacramento Kings.

I'm with you. I still think, like, if you're LeBron and you're playing, you're going to make the playoffs. That's like a pretty easy calculation for me. Well, it's interesting because, like, let's say the nuggets are the one. Yeah, yeah. All right, so there are lots of stuff happening with the Lakers. we mentioned, and Isaac, as our resident Heechek historian, confirm this for me.

I don't think we've ever talked about the Celtics on Heechak before. So what? It's never happened. The Celtics. The Celtics. We're going to talk about the Boston Celtics, too. Do we talk about the Celtics on the Ringer? The first in Ringer history, nobody's ever done it here.

We mentioned that the Celtics are also obviously very interested in Anthony Davis. But before we get to that, Kyrie Irving is out there making a lot of noise charks over the weekend. And this is a guy who let's remind everybody that Kyrie Irvin at the beginning of the season said, if you guys will have me back talking about the Celtics, I plan on resigning here. He had a commercial that said basically he wanted to have his jersey retired in Boston. So then he was asked, hey, what's your feeling about free agency? And he told reporters, asked me again July 1. Then he said he was going to do what's best for his career.

And then, and this is my favorite part. He said, when I asked about like, you know, well, don't you kind of owe something to the Celtics? He said, I don't owe anyone shit. The Knicks fans were chanting, we want Kyrie. Netz fans were previously chanting that Kyrie was leaving, and he was asked after the Knicks about, like, people chanting, we want Kyrie. And he said that the Celtics have to ignore all the distractions.

And I'm like, yo, guy, you're the distraction. It's really amazing. I cannot stress how much I've enjoyed the Kyrie Irving leadership experience. Like, every part about it. Like, he's discovering for the first time that he's immediate. But he's learning these things, like no one of told people ask questions. I have mentioned this on Hecheck, quite a. bit, I want him to never stop talking.

I want him to talk all the time, forever. I think that's your and well on your way of how that happened, John. I don't see him not talking. It's really great. And, like, he's, he's become, Kyrie Irving's become, like, one of my favorite players in the NBA. He's obviously reaching his prime right now. He's an incredibly talented player.

He's a lot of fun to watch. Also, he's not on a team I care about. And so every time he opens his mouth, I just, like, I grab some popcorn. I put my feet up and I'm like, this is fucking excellent. and I hope it continues in perpetuity. But I think probably the Celtics and their fans probably aren't as thrilled about it. He's now starting to hint that maybe he could leave.

Is that maybe better for them in the long run? Because this probably isn't ideal the way it's happening for the Celtics right now. I mean, I think if Anthony Davis wasn't out there, like they could probably survive not having Kyrie. They have enough pieces. It's just like Kyrie was always the piece to make Davis come right.

Right. And so if Kyrie's not committed, then Davis is looking at it like, oh, you know, Tatum Brown, Roseer, you know, injured Hayward, if he interested in that, what he can turn that into? I think how he by himself with it. I'm just asking you this as a hypothetical.

It's obviously not something the Celtics are considering, but if you're Danny Aang and you're dealing with all this shit and the trade deadline is approaching, would you consider moving him or would you just be like, no, we need him, we could still potentially pair him with AD and also he's good and will help us in the playoffs either way. I think it's just to stay, like the upside of doing it means you really can't ignore it. So I asked Kevin this last week, O'Connor,

how do you feel about that cash of draft picks that the Celtics have? Because I think conventional wisdom is that that puts them in the driver's seat if the Pelicans wait until July 1 because they've got these four picks that Danny could reroute, take players and then send them off to the Pelicans.

But the Sacramento pick isn't probably going to be as attractive as previously anticipated. They've got the Clippers pick. They've got their pick. That's not going to be good. The Memphis one is really the only one that's like... It's the Grisley's one. Yeah, that's the one.

That's what I'm saying. Like, is the Grizzlies pick and Tatum like enough to blow their socks off? Well, I think like when it's this year. It's not a protected. But I also wonder and hesitate and worry again about like how much I think you're right. You do have to go all in and take your shot to get Anthony Davis if you can get Anthony Davis. But like all the signaling that his camp has done. And then like his dad coming out and saying I would never want my son to play for Boston after what they did they done to Isaiah Thomas.

No loyalty. he guy gives his heart and soul and they traded him. Anyone can print that? I love that he said anyone can print that, by the way. I just like, it just feels like he doesn't want to be there. He doesn't want to be anywhere but L.A. And I'd just be really worried about, like, you've got all these picks,

you've got this young guy in Jason Tatum who's going to be really good, who already is really good. Are you willing to forfeit all of that stuff on a hope and a prayer that he'll stick around? Well, to me, that's just posturing, right? Like, we know Davis wants. So to me, all this stuff is just posture.

It's really incredible. Like Rich Paul clutch sports and like the era of player power. Like how much this has been influenced by guys just being like, like Chris Stapp's being like, yeah, you know what? I'll play on my qualifying offer if you don't move me. Or Anthony Davis saying, I want out. Like I'm out of here. Karee like deciding, who knows?

Maybe I don't owe you shit. Like it's really good. I mean, that's phone call. I wanted that. I wanted to want a Kari phone call now so bad. I wanted. There's so many things they could have talked about in that phone call, right? We need audio of that.

Speaking of player power, we've got more to discuss on that front. But first, a quick word from our sponsors. Today's heat check is brought to you by Captera. Do you remember 1989? I do. Isaac does not. He wasn't born yet. It was the year the World Wide Web was invented. We've come a long way since then.

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And now back to Charks. All right. So we're talking about player power. Speaking of Chris Stap's Porzingas, who I don't think many people realized around the league was going to be available, like he had made some noise about, hey, I might not sign my rookie extension, which nobody in the history of the league has ever done,

and he was making some noise about, I might play on a qualifying offer, which I think the last, who was, Greg Monroe did it, which is kind of crazy, but he's Greg Monroe. Nobody expected that Christops Porzingus would actually do that,

and then all of a sudden, Christaps Porzingis gets traded to your Dallas Mavericks charts. I will give you a name. Nerlin's Noel did it. But that's the kind of player who does that. It was insane. I love that he threw some heat at the Knicks

on the way out the door. On his Instagram, he had, the city deserves better than that. My suggestion for Nick's fans is to stay woke, all caps with exclamation points. I generally think,

like, use either caps or exclamation points, but I guess extenuating circumstances. And then he said peace, and he was on his way out the door. You wrote a piece about this saying that Chris Stavs might have opened a Pandora's box in the NBA. Yeah, I mean, to me,

if you look at, okay, I wonder if you look at half with Carl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis. I was like, man, there's really no reason for these young players to take the money if they're common. Maybe this is like to be. beginning of like even crazed your player movement where guys have to...

I like the player movement. I like the fact that players are just like, man, you know what? I want to... It does. I don't need the content, gone. That is a position that I've been staking out a corner that I've been on throughout my time at the ringer. I just care about the content. This is excellent content. What did you think about the deal overall? When it first was reported, I was like, wow, this is horrendous. I can't believe they did that. Also, there were reports that, like, a lot of teams were super surprised that the Knicks were moving Chris DeV's where Zingis and didn't know that he was on the market,

and this feels like a snap trade for them where they, like, they didn't really ask around the league very much. But I do think, like, the picks that they got back make it slightly better. Yeah, it just feels like a real classic Knicks' Maps trade. Like, you have the Knicks like what he's done. Maybe it is, who knows? But I think that it is done, but it actually isn't.

Then you have the maps going on. It feels like both. How do you feel about Dennis Smith Jr.? I mean, obviously you got to see him up close a lot in Dallas. I like him. I think he's like kind of a poor man's rust. but I do wonder like what if this means the end for Frank Nellikina that's it for him.

Well, I mean, I don't think he, the Knicks dude him as a point card, really. They never really played him a point much. I think they, I mean, obviously that was a Phil Jackson move. But I think, the thing about Dennis, I'm like, Dennis is a guy. Yeah. Venice isn't happy in a smaller rule. He'll be fun to watch in the garden, though. I mean, like, he'll put on a show, it's a bad team.

But to your point about how, like, the Knicks are being super Knicks here, there was an expectation that Wes Matthews and D'Andre Jordan would be buyout candidates, but according to the New York Post, it's more likely that they try to trade West Matthews before the deadline and that potentially they might keep DeAndre Jordan around.

One, to have an influence on Mitchell Robinson, but two, because he's real tight with KD, and that could be something that they'd be like, hey, why don't you just come and hang out with your guy? Yeah, I think more the second one. It's amazing. The next buying the culture, I'm not buying that,

but, you know, Katie's friend thing makes a lot more stuff. That's amazing. I fucking love the Knicks. Although, although I must call out what the Knicks did. Did you see what they did with Stefan Bondi? Oh, yeah, they had blackballed from like the press conference, something like that. Yeah, so in this is pretty SOP for them, right? Yeah, I mean, it's ridiculous.

So for people who don't know, the Knicks are like notorious for the way that they treat the media and have been for a long time. And like, lately they've been trying to signal over the last year. No, no, no, that was previous administrations. That was the old way of doing things. going to be the new Knicks and you're going to like the way we handle things and blah, blah, blah. Well, in December, the Beatwriters had a call with President Steve Mills and Bondi was excluded. Then after the KP trade, the beat writers had a conference call with Fisdale and GM Scott Perry, and Bondi was excluded because he had written that Chris Teps Porzingis trade was a result

of the Nix inability to squash the losing the defunction and the pettiness, to which they replied by being petty. It's unbelievable. I mean, you can say, I owe a new, new Knicks all you want. so ridiculous. Like, you're the Knicks. You're in the biggest market in the country. You're one of the hallmark franchises in the NBA. Like, act accordingly. If people are taking shots at you, that's part of the gig.

And, like, just brush off your shoulders, man. Like, let it roll off your back. It's not a big deal. It's any season. It is. When you do shit like this, it's not a good look. Bad look for the Knicks. All right.

Before we get to the final team, I want to remind everybody about the NBA watch of the night. It's the Bucks at the Nets on NBA TV. DeAngelo Russell is an all-star. placing Victorola Depot. Were you surprised you got it over, Jimmy?

No, I mean, I don't think the coaches really were. Yeah. This is a question that I asked Isaac, who said absolutely,

so let me ask you. Did Magic and Polencom make a mistake with DeAngela Russell? Was he there, was he better than any of the young guys that they currently still have?

See, I don't know about that, but the thing is interesting to me, if you look at it, like they cleared that Capsidot, though,

Lance and Jaze. It kind of seems like, no, now. And then maybe Russell becomes a much-prud trade asset but if he stays in LA.

It's weird how all these things work out, but he's doing great in Brooklyn, and the Nets are better than anticipated. Check out Bucks and Nets on NBA TV, followed by Spurs and Kings, and remember gang, if you want to watch every NBA game, subscribe to NBA League Pass on NBA.com,

Amazon, or your local cable or satellite provider. All right, last one for you. Isaac Lee, as our resident, He-check historian. Yes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we have never talked about the Philadelphia 76ers

on this podcast. The one, two, three, four, five, six, 76ers. Never happened. No, never happened. time for everything. Charks, the Sixers were in town last week in L.A. So I went out and talk to them and the theme for them over

the last year has been consistent. It remains consistent and that is they need more. Brett Brown says that all the time. He said that last year before they traded for Jimmy Butler. Alton Brand said it before and after they traded for Jimmy Butler. Now they're saying it again. How do they go out and add at the deadline? I mean, it's often

back to false, right? I mean, without the money, he's the money and makes a trade possible. I mean, something If you could get anything for him, it's better than what you're getting from him right now, which is nothing. Like, he just sits on the sideline every now and again. He pops up at a game, you know, in street clothes.

And, like, that's it. Like, that's not helping you. I would take back literally anything. Like, any warm body that you could give me. Yeah, and to me, it's really about making sure you keep Jimmy and make you can trade him eventually. So you have more assets. I think they should consider, and they won't.

But I think that they should consider moving him at the deadline because there is serious concern. with the Sixers that Jimmy Butler might walk in the offseason. That's entirely possible. And I know that the spin there is, well, if he walks, they could free up potentially if they move Faults as much as $50 million, and then all of a sudden you can go after a couple of free agents. But we saw what happened last off season.

Just because you have cap space does not mean that you're going to get these high profile top tier free agents. They couldn't even get a meeting with Paul George last year. They flew across, they were so thirsty. They flew across the country just to meet with Rich Paul. They couldn't even meet with LeBron. So, like, just because you, have money doesn't mean you're going to be able to keep guys or get guys or sign guys. And if

Jimmy walks this off season, that's a disaster. I would move him now and get what you can for him. Oh, man. I like that take. I'm like, I'm looking at it. To me, if I was Jimmy, it's the net. The net's kind of a good young team, it seems like. Jimmy would be the best for the providing adult potential. Yeah. So it would not surprise me at all if he left, but it broke a little bit off season. And they're not going to do it, but it makes sense to me what you're talking about. Here's my working theory that I've been tinkering with a little bit. Same city as you just suggested. Different team.

What if KD. and Kyrie pass and the Knicks have all that money and they're looking around. And Jimmy Butler is like, I'm out of Philly. I could go to New York. I could have my own team in the spotlight and they're like, fuck it. We got all this money. Let's just give some to Jimmy. That would be my ideal scenario. Oh, man.

If they dump Chris stops to sign Jimmy Butler, that would just be. Very next. Everything about that is incredible. It would be very next. All right, you're going off to the Chris Depp's Press Conference in Dallas. You can hear Charks every Friday on Corner 3. He's got stories up on the ringer all the time. Charks, Godspeed, my friend.

All right, you all, have fun. A couple pre-deadline days. Yeah, man. All right, that was Jonathan Charks. Before we bring in Mike Peters and Zach Cram, a quick word from our sponsors. Today's ski check is brought to you by Hotel Tonight. The winner is a great time to check out Hotel tonight,

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Just go to BrilliantEarth.com slash ringer NBA. That's BrilliantEarth.com slash ringer NBA. And now, back to Heat Check. All right, joining me in the studio, the host of Von Shuffle. He just wrote a piece about Maroon 5 Super Bowl halftime show, was deeply whatever.

Love the title. It's Michael Peters. me on the other line from MLB show and binge mode. It's Zach Cramm. What's up, guys? Hello. What's going down? So I brought you in because, Micah, well, at first, the Super Bowl piece was excellent.

I mean, that pretty much summed up everything. Yeah. The Maroon 5 halftime show was very slapdash. I mean, like the whole thing is just, like I said, it was deeply whatever. I mean, he kind of like, Adam Levine was, like, performing, like, somebody who's the check had already cleared before he went on stage. He ripped off his shirt at one point I'm like, who needs this?

Who was asking for any of this? I think that the best part about the whole thing behind Travis Scott's entrance was probably his California belly tat which I was just like, this is squarely on the nose. When Anthony Davis gets traded, is he going to get a California belly tat?

I love that you're already throwing bows. You're only saying that because you're not in this room with me. That's an excellent transition, and Cram, you should host this podcast. So how are you feeling? Let's start. Before we get into Cramm's piece, which was excellent,

and I'm going to guess that Mike, I had quite a few takes on his piece. But I just want to, from a very personal standpoint, I like you. I want to know how you're, I want to know how. It doesn't feel like it sometimes. How are you feeling? So I was trying to explain this to Chris the other day.

It's like a weird feeling of resignation because, I mean, Chris Paul left after six years. Anthony Davis is leaving after seven. If you give up five years of your prime and nothing is materially changing, on a, like on a fundamental level, I understand wanting to move on. And still, it hurts. I mean, you mentioned the Chris Paul part. That's what I'm saying.

Like, in a way, wasn't this kind of inevitable? Yeah. I mean, like, it's when you play for a franchise that makes a bunch of later for now moves and like not a lot of them come off and you're looking around. and, you know, like, Meritage is injured and not hitting threes anymore, then you have, like, Solomon Hill is the next one. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, there's not, I get it. I understand. So I have talked quite a few times on this show that I don't understand how they didn't put a better team around Anthony Davis. And I couldn't quite figure it out. And then, of course, Cram, much smarter than me,

figured out a way to, like, explain this to everybody. And the road a piece is Anthony Davis, the most squandered superstar in NBA history. And Kramm, you went through and found a bunch of other players like Anthony Davis who were really good and their teams never got the most out of them. Yeah, so I think the first, I guess, and most basic way to look at it is if you go back to 2012, New Orleans wins the draft lottery. It's a huge deal because they get Anthony Davis, the number two pick who goes to Charlotte, which had just, I think, finished 7 and 59, one of the worst teams ever. They get Michael Kid Girlcrest. It's hard to think of a bigger disparity between number one and two picks.

But since that day, New Orleans ranks 21st in the NBA and wins, and Charlotte ranks 20th. So they ended up basically in the same spot. And I looked at Davis is one of 69 players in NBA history to make multiple first-team all-NBAs with the same team. I sort of use that as the benchmark for, all right, like a mega super-super star. And among those 69 players, like Davis, I think his time in New Orleans, ranked 66th in winning percentage. You have to go back 30 years or more to find any comparable superstar whose team never experienced the kind of success that New Orleans similarly hasn't

experienced with Davis. So we're doing a podcast, as everybody who's listening knows, but I'm going to do a little color here, a little scene. Micah during that both rolled his eyes, furrowed his brow, and now is like, and now is like massaging his temple. It's going great over here. He's going to be fine, guys. Some of the people that are on this list that Cram found to make misery and company, right? People are miserable. They like company. Pete Marevich with the Jazz, Bernard King, Tiny Archibald, and then Anthony Davis.

Yeah. Yeah. And like Pete Marevich with the Jazz, they were an expansion team. And Tiny Archibald with the Kings, they moved from Cincinnati to Omaha to Kansas City just in the time he was there. So I guess the fact that New Orleans has stayed in New Orleans is a positive compared to those peers. but that probably isn't like, that's a pretty low benchmark for getting maybe the best draft prospect

since LeBron is just staying in the same city. Just to throw my hat into the misery ring, Alan Iverson is also on this list. Although I feel like that's kind of strange because I enjoyed watching him. They overachieved with that team that lost to the Lakers. I was fine with the Allen Iverson era.

I don't think that you feel fine with the Anthony Davis era though. Well, I mean like the Alan Iverson era, that team was kind of built specifically to respond to him in a strange way. I mean, like you had Huchotov Plan Center. Dekembi Mutamba. They traded for him. They initially had Theo Ratliff.

They initially had Theo Ratliff. And they traded for DeKinebe Mutombo. You also had Chris, I mean, like, it was just basically you had all the people that were there to just collect the ball and recycle it for Alan Iverson. The thing is that, like, they didn't have, like, a system that felt like it was clicking until, like, the second half. of last year when boogie went down and it just all of a sudden like out of nowhere felt like oh they finally stumbled onto it. This is a thing that

works. So in addition to, and this is for both of you both on the podcast, but in addition to us saying like, okay, they never quite put a team around him and it didn't quite make sense. Do we feel like I love Anthony Davis and he fucking loads the box score every time he plays

right? His stat lines are always off the charts but do we feel like he was like what's his culpability in terms of like him making his teammates better and him making that team better. I don't know. I feel like that question is always like super loaded. Sure, there should be, in effect, some sort of culpability for a superstar that fails to, you know, like, bring his team up with him or whatever. But, like, that's extremely romantic way to think about it.

Sure, he missed games here and there for, like, regular wear and tear shit. Right. But I mean, I don't know. I don't know what more I could ask for somebody that was, if you weren't looking, was going to put up a 50 point triple double. Yeah, that's fair. Like how much more could you possibly ask him to do? And like, why is it his fault that doesn't translate to wins and losses?

Cramm, where are you on it? Well, I think if you just look at his pure, like, on or off court, for like the last five seasons, the Pelicans have been 10 points per 100 possessions worse when Davis is off the court. They've been just when he's on the court, one of the best teams in the NBA, but they just completely crater every single season when he's off. This season, obviously, being no exception. I think your Alan Iverson point is a shrewd one, because while Iverson also didn't experience that much regular season success, he was also making the playoffs. And he had that one, like, legendary stepover moment and that one playoff run that Sixers fans will remember.

Yeah. You know, where two decades passed at this point, Anthony Davis is the peak of his Pelicans career, if he ends up being traded, is a first round win. And sure, it's kind of not fair that he ran into the Warriors both times he made the playoffs. He's second all time in points per game in the playoffs. But he doesn't have those moments either that, like, Micah's going to take with him for the next 10 years. Except for when he killed Joseph Nurkich. And like him and Drew Holliday stared Nurkich down. That was great.

I'm going to remember that for a while. They did do that, and that was a nice little momento. You mentioned Drew, like, when the Sixers traded him, that started off the process. I was all about it. It made sense to me. I thought it was great for the Sixers. But I also thought pairing him with Anthony Davis would be killer. I was, oh, this is great.

Drew Holiday is an way underrated NBA player. He's an excellent defender. He's got a big body. You can do a lot of things on the court. Like, why aren't those two together, Point and Big Man? Like, those are the two pillars of NBA-dom. How did those two not just be good together? It's hard for me to understand this.

It's, I mean, like, listen, if I had the answer. Fair enough. But, I mean, yeah, like, it seems like you have a point guard that's six, five, I'm going to basically defend four positions. You have, like, a big man that is literally a teradactyl. If you toss it up anywhere in the arena, he's going to catch it. It should be a thing that's like a one-two punch. This should just be a thing that works.

it does it because there's still only two players. Yeah. Yeah. It seems kind of wizardy. Like John Wall didn't make this list I looked at because he hasn't made multiple first team all NBAs. But over the last half decade, the wizard seemingly don't have like a long term plan. They just go, all right, what do we need to have a short term fix right now?

And then they stumble for a bit and then, okay, what's the next short term fix we need to? That's kind of what Del Demps and the Pelicans have done over the last few seasons without sort of a long-term plan for contention, and it left them increasingly short-sighted. Del Demps is Bayou Ernie Grunfelt. They're the same dude. Nobody's ever seen them in the same place at the same time. I love that David Stern was,

it came out of nowhere throwing bows at poor Del Demps. But so let's help Del Demp's here. Before I go to Mike, I'll start with Cram. Should they move Anthony Davis before the deadline? Unless they get really bowled over by a Lakers offer, I don't think so for two reasons. One, that they can't really get a Celtics offer until the summer. So if you think that might be the best offer, then you hold off.

And number two is if you're interested in getting a 2019 lottery selection, wouldn't it be better to see where that ping pong ball actually falls? If, say, the Knicks try to trade some of the assets they got from Porzingis for Anthony Davis, you want to wait and make sure that's actually the number one or number two pick when it could fall at a number five. Micah is ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Zubotch, and at least one, if not two first round picks enough for you to do it. Do you like that idea? That might not even be enough for Drew Holiday, to be honest.

I'm kidding. No, but they've already, the Pilgras have already refused the Lakers' first offer. They want two first round picks, I think. Yeah. If they get that second pick, would you then do that deal? It's a lot. It is a lot. It is a lot, but it still doesn't feel like it's enough.

I don't know. Like, the thing is enough for Anthony Davis. You're never going to get commensurate value. You're never going to get commensurate value. But, I mean, sure, it still feels like waiting until July is when, like, the best packages are going to be on the table. I think that it doesn't make any logical sense to trade him before the deadline. I mentioned this to Charks earlier. That's a lot to offer.

And I just, like, I worry that if I'm another team and I keep hearing over and over and over again, that Anthony Davis doesn't want to go anywhere. and especially not Boston and his dad's out there going, anyone can print that. Like, why am I giving up so much for a dude who's going to walk on me? Can I just say something about the loyalty thing? Absolutely. It's not a thing that, like, okay, first of all, I'm like, I am right there with you as that was fucked up

trading Isaiah Thomas, like after he played through grief and injury in the 2016 playoffs for you, played two days after his sister died. But at the same time, I appreciate that basketball is a business and trading Isaiah Thomas for Kyrie Irving is a thing that makes sense. Completely. But at the same time, the Celtics are like the best team built for Anthony Davis to join and immediately contend for a title. Yeah.

So the math isn't really mathing because if it was... I mean, he wants to be... Forget about the like the explanation and like the dad jumping in and the whole bit. He wants to be in L.A. I like L.A. I live in L.A. I get it. L.A. is like way more fire than Boston.

Yes. Every day. Listen, I've lived in both cities. As of I. I like Boston. Fine. It's cold as hell there. You don't see the sun for like 10 and a half months.

And then like the sun comes out for a day and everybody loses their shit. And then it goes away again and everybody's a miserable hermit. No, thank you. Of course you want to be in L.A. If they don't make this move, though, it presents the Pelicans with some problems, right? Because they yanked his ass out of that video and he doesn't want to be there. So, Cram, if they don't make this move and you've got like an obviously not content, not happy Anthony Davis, who you also want to keep healthy. Do you shut him down for the rest of the year?

Well, first to answer your other question about why would a team maybe try for Davis? The answer is because you get to have Anthony Davis on your team. Like the Thunder made a gamble by trading for Paul George before his free agency when everyone thought he was going to go to L.A. And he ended up resigning. The same thing could happen with Kauai Leonard in Toronto. I know that everybody keeps bringing up the Paul George thing. I'm interested to see what happens with Kauai because I still think that there is a better than 50-50 shot that he walks. I think Paul George is the anomaly. I don't think that that's like, oh, well, Paul George decided to stay in OKC so nobody's ever going to walk on somebody.

Yo, I don't understand. Like, it's like we're a year later after that four-year extension. it still doesn't make sense to me. That too. Like it's honestly, like he was just like, yo, I just wanted somebody to dab me up and go fishing with me, and that was enough. Noss is coming. Let's just have a party. Yeah, like I don't get it.

Cram, tell me whether they should shut them down, though. I don't think they should shut them down, but I also think this gets that kind of what we're talking about, about the domino of moves. Like, if they do end up trading Anthony Davis, you probably want to trade holiday too. You probably want to trade near itch and just completely tear down. So it's just the first in a series of moves.

And I think that entire set has to be considered before you rush in with this with what would be the, like, defining moment of the franchise that would set them up for the next five years. Yeah, I think, I think you're right. If you're going to, you know that you're going to have to move AD eventually. If it's not at this deadline, you're going to move them in the off season, most likely. And at which point, that leads to other dominoes of tearing it down. But according to most of the reports, they're not looking to move Drew right now. So I don't know what they're doing. And this brings me to my next point.

The way the Pelicans have been run, that's got to make you, like, forget about all this other stuff about Anthony Davis running out and he tried it and whatever. They're just like a poorly run franchise for a lot of reasons and for a while. Yes. Yes. I mean, like, were you expecting me to add to that? No, I was like, I 100% agree with you. It's such a weird thing with, like, Mickey Loomis, like, kind of being involved with the Saints. And now you've got Gail Benson, like, taking over for her now dead husband.

and like kind of maybe being interested in the pelicans, but doesn't really appear so? They were kind of run like a side show and have still been kind of, they've been run slightly less like a side show since she took over. I guess? It's, I mean.

So this is a obviously loaded question for you because you're from New Orleans and like you like the pelicans. From Baton Rouge, but like, yeah. No, you're from the area. That's your team. Yeah, they're an hour for it. Esh, right. But would you be broken up if they moved?

Because it feels like if AD moves and they unload everybody that this could be a move candidate. Long pregnant pause. While he's considering, Cram, would you want to see them move? I'm always sad to see a team move. I would prefer, yeah. Yeah, I'd prefer the league to like expand to 32 teams before anyone moves. Just because like, I mean, we're, what, 11 years since the Sonics moved. and that's still like a sad situation when you like praise the thunder on Twitter.

You'll get people in your mentions being like, oh, you know, they could have been doing this in Seattle. Yeah. And I mean, that's the most recent one. So we're kind of like overdue if you look at this thing historically. But I would certainly prefer that not to happen. If they did move, I would want them to land in Seattle. But yeah, expansion would be better. Here's the, New Orleans is an awesome city.

Like, why is it that players wouldn't want to be in New Orleans and be like, oh, shit, I could live in New Orleans and like, play for this basketball team that, you know, in a town where there's only two things happening? Despite it being a city where only three things are happening because people are watching football, basketball, or drinking. Okay, fun. The third one is important. You know what? There's a lot of it.

It's a wonderful, amazing, disgusting, beautiful place. Yes. And people should want to be there. But still, it's a small market team. Like, it's not like a. But if you were going to be in a small market, it's not fucking Milwaukee or, or, or, okay. Or Oklahoma City. And I can hear my mentions exploding right now because I just dragged those two towns.

But, like, balloons is way better than those places. It is. Like, it is. But I, like, I cannot explain it to you because it's like if your team is run very unsuriously. Yeah. Like, it's tough. It's tough. All right.

Give me your best bet here. I asked you if you would move them. But best bet before I let you guys go, after the deadline on Thursday, where's Anthony Davis? still in New Orleans still in New Orleans Yeah I think that's probably right I really want him to come to L.A. though I really want to see him in LeBron and L.A.

We're here, I want it to happen. Cram, what do you got working on? What are you working on? Anything good? Yeah, later this week I'll have something about the value of future first round picks like what the Nick Scott for Porzingis like the Pelicans might get for Davis

and how it's not what you might expect it to be. Excellent. Michael, you want to plug anything else? Are you going to kill any other halftime acts? I don't know if I'm going to kill the other halftime backs in the near future, but I am going to see that new Netflix movie that was shot on iPhone, the

bird writes one. What is it, what is it called again? I have no idea of what you're talking about. High flying bird. Here's what happens during the NBA season. Everything else that happens in the world is like, I'm like the horse with the blinders on and the only time I've learned about it is in our slack.

Yeah. Luckily I have you guys to tell me about what's happening in the world. Yeah. You know what? I'm here for you. You always are. I really appreciate that. Best wishes to you in all of New Orleans. Cram, I hope you stay warm in Chicago. You probably had to thaw out everything before you got on the podcast. Oh, I forgot about that, man.

Oh, are you? How are you faring out there? My car battery is currently dead and my car is unable to move. So that's fun. I'm trapped in here with you all. Stay inside, stay warm. Micah and Cramer. Thanks, man.

All right, that was Micah. and Zach, thanks to them. Thanks to Charks. Thanks to Isaac. I want to remind everybody to please rate and review us on Apple. And don't forget, you can catch the mismatch

on Tuesday, group chat on Thursday, Corner 3 on Friday. And we will be back next week with He Check on Monday. Thanks for listening, everybody. Bye.