The Ringer NBA Show - Trade Deadline Winners and Losers, KD Goes Off, and We Do Art | Heat Check

Episode Date: February 10, 2020

Instant Replay: The Raptors just can’t seem to lose, Kevin Durant wants all the smoke, and James Dolan isn't selling the New York Knicks (02:05). The Main Event: The gang breaks down the winners and losers of the trade deadline including the Heat and the Clippers, and even the Knicks (19:28). Good Call/Bad Call: D'Angelo Russell has a camcorder, Dame D.O.L.L.A. performs at All-Star Weekend, and we do art (33:47). Host: John Gonzalez Guests: Haley O'Shaughnessy, Dan Devine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, what's up guys, it's Liz Kelly, and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. On Sunday, the Big Picture podcast is going live right after the Oscars, with Sean Fennacy and Amanda Dobbins reacting to the top stories from Hollywood's biggest night. You can watch their reactions in real time or tune in later on YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook. For red carpet coverage and celebrity news from the night, listen to the newest episode of Ringer Dish, with Juliet Littman, Kate Hallowell, Millie Weddemeier, and me, Liz Kelly. Listen and subscribe to Ring Your Dish and the Big Picture on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Heat Check. I'm your host, John Gonzalez.

joined as I am every week by my producer, Steve Allman, who fresh off the Oscars. You're looking excited. You had a great night last night. Parasite Hive stand up. You were very pleased with the winners, but still disappointed that the Muppets have not hosted. I absolutely not. I'll never truly be happy with the Oscars until the Muppets host. but for right now I am elated for Paraside in Bongchung-ho. It's a great night.

If anybody saw my Instagram stories, I was screaming the entire time. Yeah, it was a fun night. We're going to channel a little Renee Zellwiger energy and just like, we're just going to speak words into the microphone and hope it turns into a podcast. In the meantime, thank you everybody for listening. A reminder to please rate and review us. Don't forget about all the great MBA content on the ringer.com. Paolo Ugetti has his biggest questions column, which includes what the buyout market will look like,

Zach Cram evaluated in Zach Cram fashion, how the trade deadline will impact the playoff race, which we'll get to in a little bit. And Dan Devine did his biggest winners and losers from the trade deadline. So we're going to merge all those in and give our post-trade deadline reactions. We'll do that later in the show.

But first, let's review the latest news from around the league and bring in Haley and Dan. All right, one of them's in studio, won his way across the country in our NYCCHQ. It's he checked coast to coast with Haley and Dan. post-trade deadline. None of us got traded to other podcasts. We're still here. No, but we've all been in the scarf game for 10 years now. Nicely done.

I'm excited about the scarf game. I almost want a scarf today, but it's supposed to be warm. It is supposed to be warm. Because, Dan, unlike you, we live in sunny Los Angeles. Sunny Los Angeles, sunshine and palm trees. I didn't have to dis you that early. I'm sorry. You haven't done anything to me this morning. Oh, I mean, in fairness, you have been trying to put me up on the scarf game for a while. And I haven't picked it up fast enough. So I get why I'm getting roasted. off the rip. Dan's good even without the scarf. Just imagine him with a scarf. It might be too much for me. Let's go to review some of the headlines from around the league with NBA instant replay.

All right, we're going to start with the Raptors again, which I feel like we've done several times on this podcast over the last month or so. Holy hell, they still haven't lost. They're going to play the new look wolves on Monday night as you listen to this. Maybe they've already played. But as we record this, they have not yet. Their streak is at 14. They have won 14 straight. Their upcoming schedule, as I mentioned, they play the Wolves this evening, Monday night. Then they're at the Nets, then they're home against the suns and pacer's before the Bucs come through. Haley, we'll start with you. I keep asking this. I guess it's the same question, but how good are the Raptors?

We should have already been believing, and like now for sure we should believe, correct? I think especially when we talk about their upcoming game with the Bucks, that is the team to beat. Something that the Raptors have, which is a huge advantage, especially in that matchup is Kyle Lowry. And I think that that's something we've been underrating or haven't been talking about enough is Kyle Lowry's impact in their streak. They have a huge advantage with him being at the point. Granted, Janus takes a lot of the ball handling responsibilities, but we haven't thanked him enough or appreciated him enough in this stretch. I'm hoping that they're going to have a streak at 18 when the bucks come through. I think they can get, who knows what to make of the New Look Wolves, and we'll talk about them when we get into our trade deadline reactions.

But they've got the nets, the sons, the Pacers. These are all winnable games. But I'm a little curious about how people perceive the Raptors because, as I've mentioned many times on this show before, I wasn't that high on them going into the season because they lost Kauai. That's obviously the wrong take. They've been excellent this year. They're super deep. And yet, I'm curious about 538's projections. There are odds pre-trade deadline to make the finals.

538 forecasted just a 9% chance post-trade deadline, a 10%. 10% chance. So their model is not bullish on them. They're in second in the Eastern Conference. You tell me where you are on them and what kind of chance you give them against the Bucks in the Eastern Conference. Yeah, I still think I would project the Bucs to be a pretty heavy favorite in that series. You know, we look back at the way the Raptors ran off four straight against the Bucks

in the conference finals last year. And, I mean, that took Kauai, basically out playing Janus over those four games and Fred Van Vleet having another child and going nuts. So, like, it's not necessarily, there wasn't as big a gap in the balance of that series as it might have seemed. And I think, you know, we're obviously going to learn a lot more over the last couple months of the season because they play three more times, including that one coming up in a couple of weeks. But I think the Raptors are going to be able to throw Pascal Siakum, Oji Ananoi and Sergei, defensively at Janus, which is about as good as anybody's going to be able to do without Kauai. And the question is just like, when the game tightens up late, who's going to be able to, you know, to generate offense.

And so that was the one matchup they've had earlier this season was back in November. That was like a four-point game in the final two minutes. It was both teams full strength early in the season, but you had the bucks kind of clamping down late, Janus going nuts. But it was a really tight game down for the last couple of minutes. I don't think the Raptors are going to sweat being the underdogs in that series, but I think Milwaukee would be a legitimate favorite going into a matchup. I just want to get back to this 538 model thing.

It's almost the inverse of the standing. It's very confusing to me. If you were going to ask me, you know, obviously put the bucks to the side, if you're going to ask me the teams that I like in the Eastern Conference right now, I would run down Raptors Celtics heat, pretty much in that order. And yet, the model that 538 has here has, they're not at all on the heat. They give them less than a 1% chance to make the finals. Boston, well, I mentioned Toronto, 10% chance, and then Boston just a 15% chance. And yet somehow the Sixers who are just like stumbling through the season, they've got a one in three chance to make the finals, which just sort of boggles my. mind. But 538 guys are smarter than me, so maybe they're right. We'll move on to Kevin Durant,

who was on all the smoke on Showtime with Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson. Shocking development, Haley, Kevin Durant had things to say. We're going to run through some of them. On leaving OKC, he said that the Warriors were intriguing because in OKC, quote, I played with a lot of athletes. I didn't play with a lot of skill guys. Holy shit. He was tired of playing in that system, and he was tired of being the only guy who could make three. tell us how you really feel KD. And then he said he decided to leave the Warriors midway through last season. And then he considered the Clippers.

He thought about the Knicks before ultimately deciding on the Nets and teaming up with Kyrie. What do you think about KD just coming out here and saying all the quiet stuff out loud? Are we going to act like Andre Robertson doesn't hit a million threes every game? This is such a ringer take. Only here do we care about Andre Robertson. Okay, obviously he didn't. Uh, yeah, I don't really blame him. I think everything he's saying is actually accurate.

I'm sorry. However, come on, it's like a past job. Don't talk about it. You still have to be in the same. This is, you're still in the same league. Just don't do it. You're still around these guys. You have to play them.

You're sitting out. You're bored. I get it. Don't guys do like video games and stuff. I don't know. Get a hobby. Get into astrology. This is, as we have established,

time and time again on heat check. The wrong take, the exact incorrect take. We are for the content here on this show. We want people to talk in the same way that I constantly encourage Kyrie to run his mouth. KD and Kyrie running their mouth on the same team. Yes, please. I want all of that. And speaking of Kyrie, he said on the same show,

my thing with Kyrie is, I'm just going to let him be who he is. He's a pure artist of the game, and he's proven himself on the biggest stage. Dan thoughts on KD encouraging Kyrie to beat Kyrie. even more so than he already has been. I mean, this was always the way it was going to be. The thing that they recognize in one another is like the creative aspect of I can make something out of nothing in this beautiful game. Like there was always that respect and that commonality. That's why they made sense together, even if it seems like that might be a little bit too much of misery loves company.

But that idea, like, I recognize in you something that like the blog boys don't get has always been sort of what knitted them together. And it's why, like, I don't, I have no idea how it's going to look when they get together, but it's why, like, Brooklyn's not going to do anything until they get to see what that looks like. People were wondering why they didn't make around the edges moves before the deadline. It's because they have to see what the team looks like when Kevin Durant comes back because the whole thing is about, like, what the picture of K.D. and Kyrie looks like together. And if this is the relationship they have, like, let's, we'll see if it's the same level of respect for artistry after, like, 30 games of playing together.

I want to see how that goes. too, but as an employee of Blogboy Incorporated LLC, I love that they recognize that in each other. Well, last one for you, Haley, he talked about his burner accounts, super fun, said certain people, I'm going to come back on my regular account, but if I'm just trying to do my thing, I want to dip in, you know what I mean? I got the burner. I just slipped up that one time. Apparently still operating his burner accounts.

I was going to say, does that mean that he is the same one? Because that account was like memed into oblivion, so everyone knows that account. Yeah, he must have rebooted up a new one, right? Do you guys have a burner? I do not. I do. You do? This is an amazing revelation.

I need to know what the, will you reveal it to us off air so that we can check out your burner? So that's just going to be out there. All right. Well, I'm going to do some sleuthing on this day and divine. We're going to figure out, you and I are going to crack that case and figure out what her burner is. We'll get Dietrich in here on it. Yeah, that's exactly right. We need to call him and our resident burner account expert.

DeAngelo Russell finally made his way to reuniting with Carl Anthony Towns. The two of them have wanted to play together. uh since college now they get to do it uh they're in minnesota the wolves and gerson rosa's make the big trade dan let's go to you first uh what do you think about this pairing now that they finally pulled it off i mean i called them a winner in our trade the big trade deadline column because it was just like they had a goal in mind and something they wanted to accomplish and they did it now whether the angelo russell is the guy that they should be trying to throw all their eggs into the basket on i have no idea i think a lot of this is really going to come back to the degree to

which Carl Towns decides to be a defensive captain, a guy who's going to lead that team. And that offense could work. I think the idea of pairing a pick and roll point guard like Russell with a pick and pop big man like Towns could really supercharge the offense. But they're not going to defend a lot unless Towns decides they are. Your best player has to be the guy who leads you there. And they've been a below average team on that end of the floor in every season of Kat's career.

They've been dreadful with him in the middle of the season, almost 10 more points per hundred with him on the court than off it. They're given up. So all of it's going to depend on that. And then, you know, we'll see, we'll have to see what the chemistry looks like. But they had to do something and the big overhaul of half the roster going out makes sense to me, given how busted up everything was. Yeah, I had much higher hopes for him coming to the league defensively than what we've seen from him.

So that, you're right. I think that his want to on that end will go a long way. But I'm also super interested in DeAngelo Russell and have been since he entered the league. Steve Kerr had some interesting comments, Haley. When he was asked about DeAngelo Russell, he said, to be blunt, the fit was questionable when we signed him. He's the former number two overall pick. He's been given up on already by three teams. The Lakers gave up on him.

The Nets gave up on him. The Warriors gave up on him. His numbers, his counting stats, you know, you look at his game. You think, okay, like there's something here. And yet three teams have passed on him after giving him a look. Yeah, I mean, the defense isn't there yet. It could be. It is at times.

And Kerr wasn't being malicious. But at the same time, it is weird how rudely, I tweeted this, I think yesterday the day before how rudely D'Eyel Russell has been sent off by his teams. I mean, yeah, to be blunt, it wasn't a good fit. Nobody thought it was a good fit. You guys have Clay Thompson already. You have Steph Curry already. Where is he going to fit?

And then the other thing is just, yeah, it's really weird, the short allowance that teams have given him. Although when you look at it, everything other than the Lakers has made sense. Because Kyrie was like, I'm going to, I'll come to your team. And the Nets said, sure. On the Warriors, yes, it didn't make sense. With the Lakers, magic was just like, nah, he's a bad leader. A piece of shit.

Lonsos's way better. And now they don't have Lanzo either. You do have to factor in the magic factor, the magic component. Dan, what about the fit with Wiggins and the Warriors? He had 24 points in his debut. Curse said it's a better positional fit. Do we ever think he'll have up to his potential

in the same way that DiAngelo Russell has been sort of moved around because people soured on him? A lot of people soured on him in Minnesota, but he hasn't been moved until now. Do we think that he can realize that potential that made him the number one pick? Well, I mean, in classic heat check fashion, I'm going to say, it's really not for me to say. But I think that the issue with that is like there's the idea that you plug him into a stable environment.

He's had five coaches in six years and a bunch of like not all that great defensive teammates. There hasn't been really a stable environment in place for him. And so the idea of putting him into the warrior sort of structure, I'm open to the argument that that brings a lot out of him. That said, when you've seen somebody for like six years, and the large size of the sample that we've seen from Wiggins, at a certain point, you kind of are who you are, and that's a guy who can score points but needs the ball in his hands a lot to do it and is inconsistent at best as a defensive guy.

So, yes, the positional fit makes a lot more sense than Russell. You can plug him in at the three alongside the pieces they already have in place. But as far as to the degree he's going to elevate them, I feel like I need to see that to believe it, because we've seen enough that we've been burned as Haley wrote earlier in the season. Like, are we going to get burned again? and we got fucking burned again. We got burned again.

He burns us every year. I really look forward to the point of the season when we're like, hey, maybe Wiggins will be a thing. And then every time. He never is. Speaking of things that should be a thing, but kind of aren't,

the Sixers, I don't really want to do this. I'm going to bring it up. I had mentioned 538's model gives them a one and three chance, about a 33% chance to make the finals, which absolutely blows my mind.

I don't know how they put together their proprietary algorithm. I'm going to guess that they don't bake in this off-court nonsense that happens with the Sixers, including Elton. Brand talking about Brett Brown.

So over the weekend, the Sixers somehow beat Memphis in Chicago. The crowd sort of booed Embed. Embed hit a three late against the Bulls to seal it. And he hushed the crowd, which always dangerous in Philadelphia. Later on, he said he didn't do that. And he said he was talking to himself and getting back to being, quote, a good asshole. I don't know what that means. You know exactly what being a good asshole means.

I guess really what it means is being a Philadelphia. So I understand that. Being a good asshole, that's pretty much all of my friends and family. Shouts to them. But before Friday's Gris game, and this is what I wanted to get into with you guys, you may recall before the playoffs last year, Josh Harris was asked about Brett Brown's job status and gave a very lukewarm, tepid sort of pat, you know, vote of confidence.

And now, Elton Brand just did the same thing. Before the Gris game, he said, Brett Brown is our head coach. I believe in Brett's ability to lead this team, I will be responsible for that decision when it comes. I speak to Brett and we work every day to get this problem fix. We're not happy with it. He said that the structure now in the organization is that Brett reports to him. It's not a collaboration, even though a lot of people believe it. It's a collaboration. As if Brett Brown will be the head coach for the rest of the season, Elton Brand responded, I'm not going to play what-ifs. Holy hell. This can't make it better,

Haley. This is hilarious because he said the decision when it comes. You're the one who decides when that decision comes. This decision is up to you. Brett has been in the hot seat for what now, 19 months? I mean, I don't, maybe he isn't the guy. I hate saying this because I feel like he gets way too much blame because the makeup of the roster, the way that the players fit together, there are obvious problems that are outside of his control. However, this has been the situation with teams and coaches before. They brought in someone fresh in its work, not to go all like pro football focus on you guys, but Kyle Shanahan has gotten really creative with that offense, enough that Jimmy Garoppolo was good enough to get that team into the Super Bowl.

Different guys can figure out different creative things. Maybe he's not the guy. Yeah, I wrote about this last year when everybody was crushing Brett per usual and talking about how we evaluate coaches and how there's so much that we don't know, like, what's happening. And there's only so much information available to the public, to judge coaches. And Brett's in his seventh season with the Sixers. And my whole thing has been, who else you're going to go get? I mean, like, is your guy Jason kid?

not really for me, but I guess we could have that conversation. But everybody who wants to replace Brett, I want to know who you're thinking about. Dan, Brett's in his seventh season. It feels like he's been on the hot seats for six of them. He signed a three-year extension in May 2018, which means he has one year left after this. Do you think he's in trouble given what Elton said? Should he be? Because I'm too close to this.

Everybody knows how I feel about Brett. I would let him be coach in perpetuity. I don't know. I mean, should or shouldn't, I don't know. But I think this is the burden of elevated expectations. You talked about sort of having a hard time figuring out why 538 elevates the Sixers in that ranking of, you know, whose championship odds are highest. It's because of the star level talent there. It's because you have Simmons, because you have Embed, because you brought an Al Horford, because you have like a maxed out Tobias Harris.

The top end talent on the roster demands a certain level of, you know, championship or bust, conference finals or bust. And if you fall short of that, and as it looks right now, they're in line for the number five seed. and they've been, you know, just like dreadful away from home, that's where you're looking. Other teams would love to have your problems, but you still wind up looking like a disaster because you're not elevated to the level of Milwaukee or Toronto outperforming their expectations or Miami outperforming its expectations. The Sixers are expected to do a lot and they haven't been able to. And somebody's going to have to get fired for that as we know.

Or somebody's going to have to bear the responsibility for that. As we know in these things, it's rarely the guy who fires somebody. has the opportunity to fire somebody who bears their responsibility until afterward. Yeah, we saw that with the NICS and their reorganization, which we're going to get to in just a second. At present, the Sixers would be on the road. They would not have home court to start in the first round. And as we've mentioned previously, they have been terrible away from the Wells Fargo Center, just nine and 19 on the road. So they got to move up in the standings if they're going to have a hope of making a run in the playoffs.

All right, that was instant replay. We're going to take a second here and go to the main event. All right, so Dan, you wrote trade deadline winners and losers. Zach Cram did a thing about how the trade deadline impacted the playoff races. We're going to sort of mash those things together and run through our post-trade deadline reactions with some of our winners. Let's start with the winners. We're going to start with the winners. Let's do the winners.

Haley says, yeah, she's nodding. It's a podcast. Let's go to the Miami Heat. The Miami Heat, they just lost to the Blazers, but dames on fire. So I'm going to just put that one off to the side. And also Jimmy Butler didn't play. They go out and they get Andre Aguadala, Dustin. him off. Turns out a little rusty, Haley.

Two points on two shots in 23 minutes. He also had six rebounds, three assists of steel in a block. I expect that he'll be a contributor, but how much do you think that he has left, and do you agree with Dan's assessment that the Miami Heat were winners from the trade deadline? They also added Jay Crowder and got rid of Dion Writers, bless his heart.

Who would have thought that you'd be rusty after golfing for five months? Yeah. That's crazy. That's not what I would have thought at all. With the heat, I don't want to be pessimistic because I still think that they have great potential. I'm just sad that They gave up Justice Winslow. You know, he had injury problems.

They'd have to think about the future. They have a lot of really exciting young guys that they're eventually going to have to pay for. It still kind of bums me out, although it doesn't because then we get to think about him with the Grizzlies. With Andre and with Jay Crowder, you get two wonderful veterans to pair with all these super young, exciting guys. They got rid of Dionne Waiters. Yeah, it's a success. Jay Crowder looked fantastic. Again, no Jimmy Butler, but 35 minutes out of the gate, he had a double double double.

18 points, 11 rebounds, three assists, two steals in a block. You're laughing at me. It sounded like you said he's no Jimmy Butler, but you weren't. You were just saying that he's out. He said, Jay Crowder, no Jimmy Butler. Right. In fairness, Jay Crowder, not Jimmy Butler, but did a good Jimmy Butler impersonation Sands Jimmy Butler, which brings us to Jimmy Butler.

Did we underestimate his impact here? Because, you know, the 538 forecast aside, I love the heat team. I didn't think that they were going to be this good. They've looked really good. Philly crushed Jimmy Butler for leaving because he had said, you know, all he wants to do is win. And then he goes down to Miami and it felt like he just wanted to start an early retirement. But look, the Bulls were better with him than without him. The Wolves were better with him than without him.

The Sixers were better with him than without him. And the heat had been better with him this year than they were before he arrived. Like, for all the heat that we give Jimmy Butler for, you know, running his mouth and causing friction in locker rooms and whatever, his teams win. Yeah, you were saying before, I don't really know what a good asshole is. I think we may have identified a good asshole here. Fair enough. And Eudanus Haslam had, I forget who had the quote, but it was a couple weeks back, and it was basically like why things didn't work out in Minnesota and why they worked out in Philly and then worked out in Miami. It's like if you put him in a cage with some kittens, he's going to growl.

But if you put him in a kennel with some dogs, everybody's going to start running. And like, that's the, he, the Miami sort of mix for him works exactly right. And I think Butler is the kind of personality and the kind of locker room presence, the kind of talent on the court that you have to sort of build just so around. But he can impact a game without scoring a lot of points. And he can elevate a team without needing to have the ball in his hands, you know, 35% of the time and take 15, 20 shots a game. And there aren't a whole lot of guys that can do that. Eric Spulture earlier this season talked about us having maybe a disordered understanding of what a max player is because we look at stats. we look at what a guy does, you know, in terms of his eye, his scoring.

But Butler provides that for them and organizes everybody on both ends of the floor, even when he's not the guy scoring 25 a game. So I think sometimes we can underestimate those sorts of contributions, and we're seeing in real time what that looks like in Miami. Credit to Pat Riley, man. I thought that this is going to take a lot longer. They did this on the fly. I thought they were looking, targeting maybe next offseason.

Instead, they're really well positioned already. And then if they can add, you know, an extra piece or a big piece, next offseason, you know, the heater all the way back. Dan, some other teams that landed on your winners list. I'm going to ask you if we go first on this one because I want you to explain yourself. You threw the Knicks on the winners list. I would argue that they're on the losers list automatically because James Dolan said that he is not selling the team. They are actively looking for a new team president, but James Dolan said, I am not selling,

but I am determined to find the right leader for the Knicks who will ensure the long-term success for New York. A couple of things about this. He has been determined to find the right. right leader for the Knicks for as long as he's been James Dolan owner of the Knicks. And long-term success, maybe just start with something like short-term success or say any success. They got rid of Steve Mills. There's been rumors that they might bring in World Wide West, William Wesley, and Leon Rose. Explain yourself, how did the Knicks end up here on your winners list?

They did get rid of Marcus Morris, by the way, so good for that. Well, Gons, there you go. One week ago on this very podcast, we said, what would I like to see from the Knicks? and it was trade Marcus Morris for a first round pick rather than resigning him. And it is a small piece of business, but it was a positive one. The most important thing they needed to do is continue to gain some kind of assets to be able to build, whoever is in charge moving forward to be able to build with. I'm also just on board with Steve Mills not being in the basketball operations there

because the only person who has been sort of a bigger part of the two decades of failure at Madison Square Garden than James Dolan is Steve Mills. He's been like right there with him. So I have no idea if the Leon Rose World Wide West thing is going to work. Apparently, there's some uncertainty as to whether World Wide West is really going to be involved in it. All the reporting on the deadline day was Rose is in, West may be. And then since then, we don't know, nothing confirmed yet, nothing announced. So we'll see. In small, small stakes, they traded a player who was going to be a free agent at the end of the season for a first round pick.

It's not nothing, Gans. It's not much, but it's not nothing. I guess it's a low bar. My thing is the chances that they ever turn it around with Dolan Slim, we've got a large sample size and so far not so good. You mentioned, we mentioned, Dan mentioned, Marcus Morris going to the Clippers. So Haley, the Clippers go and add Marcus Morris. He debuted in a blowout win over the Cavs, 10 points, four rebounds, two assist, three steals, played 22 minutes.

They also started him. How do you like that fit? I think it's great. And I also applaud them for being able to pull this off because the Knicks seemed very, very, very strangely attached to Marcus Morris. Yeah. But they did ultimately give up what the Knicks wanted, which was the first round pick. Which is why I'm with Dan. It's a win for the Knicks because they were very into Marcus Morris.

You don't need Marcus Morris. You need more picks. They got a career year out of nowhere from Marcus Morris and were up until the last second going to hold on to him rather than flipping him for an asset. I'm like, that is the most next thing ever. So yeah, I guess you guys are right that they actually did something rather than just sitting on a depreciating asset. Haley, I wanted to ask you, too, about the Rockets. They obviously have reconfigured their team really thrown themselves into playing

small, get rid of Clint Capella, bring in Rocco. The playoffs are different. You love this. Broco! They're super leaning. I just want him to have success. They're super leaning into this formula that they've been developing over the last few seasons of shoot all threes or at the rim, get to line, nothing else.

They're playing small. It's been working for them a little bit. The playoffs, I think that I'm not so sure about this long term, but the playoffs are a different animal because there's going to be more ISO in the playoffs. You sort of throw out your playbook. You attack the weakest defensive. link by putting them in the pick and roll. This is sort of how the Rockets have already played, and now they're just really dialing it up.

Do you think it can work and do you think that they could go on a run with a team that is clearly going to play small now? Well, there's a clear way to beat a team that goes small. That's the thing. That's always going to be the answer. We've seen that in the playoffs time and time again, although small ball has also won. It just depends on the particular matchup and the particular players. The problem with me anticipating any Rockets' playoff success is.

is that for some reason, James Hardin just doesn't have much. He just doesn't. He doesn't perform well in the playoffs. And even on the playoffs that he does, it sputters out in the end. And everything relies on him. And also, when you rely on so much three-point shooting, that can go south very quickly. And we've seen that for them multiple times.

That can ruin a game. It can ruin a series. It's an interesting experiment. I'll be fascinated to see how it plays out in the playoffs. All right, some losers that I wanted to run through with you guys. Dan, you had the Lakers on your list. I thought that this was interesting too because they did not make a major move. And they also strike out on Darren Collison, who was sitting with Jeannie Bus Court's side.

He was asked about it. He said that, you know, I'm just sitting here watching a game. I've got really good seats. And everybody went, yeah, right, you're going to sign with the Lakers. Turns out he's not. He's decided to stay retired at least for the rest of this season. Meanwhile, the Lakers Dan have not been good against teams in the top five in scoring margin.

They have no wins. They're 0 for 5 against the top 5. scoring margin. That puts them in the company of the Warriors, Hornets, Knicks, and Cavs who are also winless against teams in the top five in scoring margin. And here's the interesting part about that. LeBron and AD played in those games. So do you not want to be in the company with the Cavs, Knicks, Hornets Warriors? Is that not who you want to be alongside of if you have designs on winning the NBA championship? It's generally bad, right? And yet, we've run the numbers. Not great. And yet, when we look at this, 538 is high on the Lakers. I was just about to ask you

what their prediction. 538 has them with also about a 1 and 3 chance, 34%, which gives them... Hold on, the same as the Sixers. They're giving the Lakers the same as the Sixers? So the top team is obviously the Bucks. The Bucks had a 39% chance pre-trade deadline. Now they've got a 40% chance, so the same. The Lakers' odds did not change.

They were 34% before and after the deadline. So yes, they're roughly the same odds as the Sixers. I think that... I'm out. That obviously has a lot to do with what conference that they play in. But Dan, where are you on the Lakers? You had them on the loser, and yet they've been one of the best teams in the league all season long. Yeah, it's, again, this is sort of just contextual. Like, the Clippers added a piece that they believe can play for them in Crunchtime in Marcus Morris and a guy, like, another body to throw out LeBron in a series, another guy who can, you know, upgrading from Mo Harclis has like a defense first guy who teams routinely leave alone in the playoffs.

We saw it for years in Portland to somebody who can go get a bucket when you need him to in a playoff series in Marcus Morris. So them improving, the clipper's improving or adding another piece while the Lakers didn't is a sort of a contextual thing. You lose out on Marcus Morris because both teams were going for them. And also you don't find another asset to go use there, whether it's a playmaking point guard. You know, we talked about them with Derek Rose or players like that, a wing like Bogdan-Baghdanovich. We talked about them as maybe being a Covington team or maybe being an Igwadala team. All of those targets don't make it there. So it's that you don't improve while somebody else does is sort of what makes you a little bit of a loser there.

they're still going to have the pick of the litter on the buyout market. Darren Collison is not going to be there. What that litter looks like is a really interesting point because now we're hearing reports about J.R. Smith being in the building for workouts. About our boy, Dion Waiters, maybe going with another run with LeBron. What they target as something that might round out their rotation should be interesting to see. But the fact that the clippers sort of looked like they got better and the Lakers didn't in that moment is why I sort of felt a little bit shaky about them.

I wonder about that top five scoring margin thing. I think it might be real, but I wonder if, like, in a playoff series where you're playing your best guys extended minutes, if it's going to matter that much. Give me both of LeBron's favored problem children from previous marriages. Give me J.R. and Dion. I want all of the memes back and live. That was fantastic. But you're right. I think it's interesting that it's sort of like other teams got better while the Lakers just stayed the same.

You could say the same Haley for the Nuggets who also ended up on Dan DeNobre. Vines Losers list. They've been sort of the same team for the last two years. They're very deep and very talented and they plug along in the regular season and I still have playoff questions. And you should, but the difference with the Nuggets is that they are young. They're three most important pieces. They're still clearly developing.

So for what that means for this immediate playoffs, maybe you're right. It's just the exact same that we've already seen. For the future, they're fine. I wouldn't put them in the losers category. I'd put them in the like... The middle, like, what do we make of this? Yeah. All right.

Well, then I got another, what do we make of this for you? Explain to me the two of you what the Hawks are doing. I'm confused. So they add Clint Capella. Okay. They add Duane Dedman. I have questions about this. They also have John Collins who, does this mean they've given up on John Collins?

Like, what is happening here? I don't think so. I think that they're going to try to pair the two of them together. I don't know because all of a sudden their timeline makes a little less sense. It felt like going into this year, I was like, wow. this is the dream rebuild. They really know what they're doing. And now I'm right there with you.

I'm like, Dwayne Dedman actually makes this farmore confusing in Clint Capella. Capella is only 26. So, yeah, this makes sense. This adds up. And theoretically, he could match up next to John. But then Dway Dendman, this does not make sense. Damn?

Yeah, the idea of paying $30 million next year for two centers is when you're this far away from, or you look to be this far away from being good, is an odd one and to go out and trade what's going to be probably a mid-first-round pick that Nets pick to get a veteran now

feels a little weird. I think a lot of it goes back to, you know, Trey Young months ago was saying, like, I need some help. Where's my help? And the specific kind of help you need

are centers who can protect the rim, guys who can organize your defense. So they kind of went out and did their shopping for next year now. I think you saw some teams do that. Like, free agency is going to be a mess because there's not a lot of teams

with cap space. There's not a lot of talent to go hunting. for. So they go and they decide we're going to get baseline guys who raise our floor. What that means for their timeline. I think that Collins just plays power forward for them now. I don't know if that's the best use of his talents and how effectively he can spread for a guy stretching the floor as a three-point shooter. I don't know. But I think that was the idea there. We are so dreadful on defense, so desperate there. We've got to have some guys that can protect the rim and organize us. They're just going to pay a pretty penny for it next year. I just checked. Clint Capelle is actually 25. I apologize. Even younger.

How dare you? You added an extra year for him. So now I'm very high on him and it makes complete sense. That was the main event. Let's go to our favorite segment and wrap up the show with Good Call, Bad Call. What a bold call here. All right. So DeAngelo Russell, we talked about him earlier,

uniting with his guy, Carl Anthony Towns, and the Timberwolves. But when the Timberwolves acquired him, he came off the plane and the Timberwolves' Twitter account tweeted out something, ladies and gentlemen, we got him. And as DeAngelo Russell came off the plane, he had a physical camcorder, which I don't know if this is like retro cool tech now. But a good call or bad call, Haley, O'Shaughnessy, with him going with an actual camcorder, not just his phone. I didn't know that people didn't realize this, but I guess considering the demographic of NBA Twitter, this kind of makes sense. But camcorders and the videos that appear to be filmed on them, so they're apps, but the ones that have timestamps and they're a little bit fuzzy and the transitions are a little bit harsh. This is a thing.

Ah. This is a trend. This is good that you're telling me. Yeah. So if you look at like, you know, influencers, a lot of travel influencers, they're all making these videos. So you capture the footage. She's going to get someone to edit it.

This is good influencer knowledge. Yeah. I like that about you. It's good content. It's good for his brand. Dan Devine, what about your brand? My brand is, it's a little dry right now. I was also unaware of all of what Haley was talking about.

It's a good call for me because it makes me think about like the mid to late 90s dunk contests where you see like KG with like a fucking giant camera on his shoulder like oh my god I can't believe that he just did that so bringing it all the way back the throwback nature of it fair enough good call yeah like Jordan at the Olympics and that kind of stuff I love that uh Steve Allman Dan beat me by one second I'm still waiting for Shaq's camcorder footage from the Vince Carter dunk contest from back in the day so I definitely would like to see this this is a very good call I don't know if this particular thing is a good call but I'm going to give a good call to halio Sean asee for being on the programming educating me and Dan who are clearly have

aged out of all of this stuff. That's right. Next one for you, we've got the All-Star game coming up this weekend. Damian Lillard will be a participant in more ways than one. Shams Charney reports

that Dame Dala will perform musically on Saturday night at the All-Star weekend. Good call or bad call here, Haley O'Shaughnessy. I hope he makes an entire song about the refs and just doesn't tell the NBA before and then they just have to listen to it

or they cut off his mic or they start playing music over top like at the Oscars. I think he's the kind of guy to do that. He was really pissed off about a blown call over the weekend when he got blocked by Rudy Gobert and even Rudy Rudy Gobert admitted after the game that it was a goaltending call, clear goaltending call. And then, you know what, let me just throw this one out here too for you guys for public

consumption. As an extra, a bonus, good call, bad call. C.J. McCollum said that when players do something wrong, they get fined, he's advocating for the refs to get fined when they blow calls. No, that's a bad precedent to set because most foul calls are not that blatant. Most of them are very debatable. However, what they should do in this instance is that the NBA should take it upon themselves to fix that, to amend that. I don't know how you retroactively fix it, but you're a good call on Dame performing and bad call on finding reps.

Dan Devine, I will also say good call on Dame performing. If for no other reason, then he puts the lie to that idea of like, oh, what do you spend the new summer doing? You're going to make a new record? Why aren't you in the gym? It's like, well, maybe you can do both if you're as good at both of them as Damian Lillard is. So good call for him being able to show that to the world. bad call on finding refs every time

they fuck something up because then I mean every do we want all of our referees to be penniless I find it hard to feel empathy for them

also nobody in their right mind should ever want to be a referee given the rash of shit you take every time you make a big mistake granted this one was bad

but like no the last thing we need is more brutalizing shaming of the referees it was it was really bad but yeah

you're right I mean we only notice referees when they fuck things up so not surprising plus I mean what would define be

it would have to be proportional. Steve Allman. I think that's one way to perform at a sold-out arena, so I'm guessing that's a pretty good call for Dame. I do not want refs to be fine. It's definitely like, it's a tough job already, and only once in a blue moon do we have something this bad.

I am, I'm also out on the refs. I am very, very much in total GC on Damien Liller, Dame Dala performing. I have said this for a while now. I believe that he is our best athlete rapper ever. and I challenge anybody to prove me wrong. He's got actual chops. He's really good. So also we have like Shaq.

Shack did it. He kills Shaq. I'm just trying to figure who did it. Like, he did like one song with Fushnikens and no thank you. Dane Dahl is legitimate. And this, that has to be the only time Fushnikins has come up on any ringer podcast.

We're instating that fine for menetting. Yeah, absolutely. I'm so excited about Damien Lilley. That's going to be fun. All right. Another one, Haley, this is right in your wheelhouse. Serge Baca. The wraps changed when he makes a bucket.

The sound that they play is him saying, I do art. I do art. Such a good call. That is the greatest. I've watched that video probably like 12 times over the weekend. This is the first thing I did when I woke up this morning. I feel like this is going to be a sweep. Dan Devine.

Yeah, it's an extremely good call. The idea that Serjibaka and Ogi Anobi are arguing over who put who on to what fashion trends. And that ends with Serja Baca saying, I don't do fashion. I do art is fucking unbelievable. God bless. Good call. So good, Steve. That's going in the annals of meme history. I don't make podcasts. I make Hart extremely good call. Yeah, I'm with you. Sweep it up, G.C. Last one for you. This was very strange. So Thadmaker with the Pistons, he had 19 points in 34 minutes in a Pistons lost to OKC. But so I think I've mentioned to you guys before that I'm a big fantasy nerd and I play in this way too intricate, way too nerdy, salary cap

Keeper, I didn't tell you about this, Haley? You never told me this. Oh, God, yeah. So my friends. What's your team name? We're the villains. The good assholes, basically. So our team, like, and it's got, it's a salary cap-based league that we put together

all of these rules custom, like, that my friends and I did together. It's super nerdy. Anyway, I bring this up because I go every day and I check my team and it's a daily league. And I click on Thon Maker. And the blurb from Yahoo, Dan's old employer, had the headline after Thon Acres 19 points in 34 minutes, let me see that thon. So, good call or bad call. Don, da, don, don't, don't.

Good call or bad call in the Yahoo fantasy blur. Great call. Great call. I love fun. Dan Devon, what say you owe in your old company? I say good call. For no other reason that, like, when do you get the chance to have fun with Thon Maker?

Like, you really don't get to, there's so few times where you say, I actually want more of him and to also bring, uh, we should. shit, who was it that made the song? Cisco. Of course, yes. There are so few opportunities to get Cisco back into our lives these days. It's an extremely good call. Steve.

So good of a call. But does he dump like a truck, truck, truck, though? It's the only approach that it's in factual. I was just. I was just about to do a bad call because I wasn't a huge fan of that. But just getting Steve to get that excited about it, such a good call. Steve Almond, you really acquitted yourself well today. Haley O'Shaughnessy and Dan Devine.

Excellent show, as always. I want to thank all of you for listening to us. Please rate and review us if you wouldn't mind. Read all of our content on the ringer.com. Listen to the Ringer NBA show all week on the Ringer podcast network. He Check will be back next week. We'll talk about the All-Star game and All-Star weekend. And Dame Dala, he's going to be great.

That'll be next. Haley's just nodding at me. I'm excited. So are they. We'll see you guys next week. Bye. Oji, I'm telling you, if you say, What about scarves?

You put me in fashion, then I'm done. What about scarves? I guess I'm done. I'm done. But what about scars? I guess I'm done.