The Ringer NBA Show - Trae Young Astounds in Game 1 Victory Over the Bucks. Plus: Ime Udoka Is the New Celtics Head Coach | Group Chat

Episode Date: June 24, 2021

Justin, Rob, and Big Wos convene after the Hawks bested the Bucks in Game 1 of the Eastern Conference finals to talk about Trae Young’s unbelievable performance and what adjustments the Bucks need to make to not just be another team on Trae’s hit list (0:30). Then they talk about Brad Stevens’s first move as president of basketball operations of the Celtics to hire Ime Udoka as head coach (21:09), what could happen to Ben Simmons after his poor performance in the playoffs (30:30), and other offseason rumors (42:07). Finally, they give their predictions for Game 3 of the Western Conference finals (52:15). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Flying Coach is back for a second season. Peter Schrager and Rams head coach Sean McVeigh are joined by guests from around the sports and entertainment world. They're discussing the latest NFL news, telling stories from their careers, and breaking down games from their unique perspectives. Check out Flying Coach Season 2 on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Verrier and joining me today for this late night edition of Group Chat, Rob Mahoney. I'm just here to throw a lob off the backboard to Was coming up here. That's right. The mother hen of the Hawks gang, Hawks bandwagon here,

Wazdin Lambres here. What's up, what up, what up, what up. Shouts to Traytiel and Traytiel only. I don't know what that means. I haven't heard that one before. We are obviously going to get into some Hawks, Bucks game one of the Eastern Conference finals. We'll also do a little preview action of Suns Clippers game three.

We'll get into some off-season news. First, we're going to talk Hawks and Bucks, obviously, but thank you for joining us on Green Room, first and foremost. We might be taking some questions this time. We didn't last time, but I think we're getting a little bit more comfortable with this. So send your questions along as we're doing this, and we might pick some out and answer some of them. But holy shit, this game was, I think we were all ready to bow to the altar of Mike Boodenholzer for making one simple adjustment in order to win this game. But holy shit, he managed to screw this up anyway. The bottom just

fell out on this game, and I really didn't know what was going on for a while, but here we are, Hawks Up Game 1. What do you think? So I'm watching it throughout the game, and honestly, I thought the Hawks were kind of in trouble because defensively, the Bucks were basically, they took a Ginsoo knife to these guys, right? Everything was a layup, and when they weren't making layups off of cuts or just getting straight to the basket off of dribble penetration, they were spraying it out for great looks in the first half that they just happened to miss. They should have like 70 points in that first half off of just the looks that they generated, which again were point blank looks and wide open threes.

I'm like, wow, the Hawks need to do some type of adjustment. I mean, yeah, because the bucks are just, you know, they're running their stuff to perfection right now, right? Like a conventional pick and roll defense, they were eating it up for lunch. However, I'm watching the entire first half, and I'm like, the Hawks are getting to their spots too, though. And the Bucks can't do anything with them in that nasty-ass drop coverage that they insist on trotting out against everybody. And it's not even personnel dependent. Even when they bring in Portis, who is supposed to be ostensibly more athletic, so he should

be able to come out more and play in more space, he's playing a drop coverage. And it's like, wait, bro, you're not 7-2 like the other guy, where it kind of makes sense to do that when they get into the lane, you're like conceding the shots. And when they go all the way through with dribble penetration, you're not big enough to give a great contest. I'm just like, what is this dude doing? But, you know, they found a way to get some stops at the end with Janus at the vibe. Wow.

Oh, my God. All game. Who would have felt it? Oh, my God. The Bucks played this whole game, really, in terms of their approach, like they were a heavy favorite. It was, what can we get a way? way with. Can we get Jeff Teague in there? Can we keep playing our drop? Can we continue to start Brooke Lopez and PJ Tucker, even though PJ Tucker doesn't have a natural matchup in this series

like he did the last one? Right. And so as a game one heat check from Bud, which is basically with this amount of two, they almost got away with it. It just really caught up to them in the end. And I was with you while at halftime, I felt like Atlanta probably needed to adjust more than Milwaukee did. Milwaukee is, they're going to get burned by Trey Young in this series, whether they drop or not, be honest with you. And so they were at least cutting off some of the other shooters that the Hawks have. They were hugging the corners. They were taking away some of that other stuff. But once that broke through in the third quarter and everyone started cutting and Trace started getting defenders moving, that was that was kind of game over in terms of where the final

balance came out. Yeah, the Hawks do a great job of just applying constant pressure with their offense. They have so many different weapons. They could just put up points on you so quickly that like, like especially for a team like Milwaukee, which will go through these big droughts and you wonder what's happening, the Hawks can just keep gaining ground, keep gaining ground, keep putting pressure on you to keep trying stuff

to second guess what you're doing. And I thought the most telling thing from this entire game was the, I think it was the second quarter interview with Mike Boodenholzer, where the sideline reporter basically asked like, yo, what, what are you going to do? Trey's going off.

Are you going to change anything you doing? He's like, yeah, yeah, we need to cover Trey, but we need to make sure we're stopping everybody else. And that's what I'm thinking to myself. This guy, thinks of his coverages like religion. And he goes into this game with a game plan and says, well, you know what, Trey can get his, but we need to shut off everybody else. But when Trey is getting 37 after three quarters, I think you really need to stop

and look yourself in the mirror. And that's the problem with Bud. He just doesn't do that until the last possible second. But that part of the strategy, I don't think, is bad basketball. Like, if you want to approach it as we're going to let Trey get his to an extent and we're going to try to shut off everyone else. I think that's kind of how they have to play. Because even if you put Janice at the five,

you don't want him showing out super high on Trey every time down the floor. It's exhausting for him. He's going to get in foul trouble if he does it. You need to find a way to mediate this stuff. And that was where, you know, like the scheme is flawed, yes, but the execution was very flawed. Like, there's just no excuse for Brooke Lobis to be at the rim in the drop.

You can em at the free throw line in the drop. Like, there are levels to this stuff that the bucks need to explore. there's levels to the drop, right? Like, you can have a drop, a drop-top hatchback Civic, or you can have a Bentley. These guys have neither. And the problem is, to me, with what they're doing, and it's been the Bucks problem the whole time.

It's they don't do it according to situation, right? Like, there was a possession at the end where, look, say what you want, they finally put Janus at the five, and Trey took like what felt like 20 straight 40-foot pull-up threes because he just didn't want to attack Janus. And then, so Nate calls a time out, he says, you know what, next time Janus is on you, switch is on to you, we're going to call another screen so that we could get the switch that we actually want, right?

Guess what, Bucks? You need to tell Janus, don't switch off for Trey Young when you're on him. Don't do that. That needs to be the wrinkle. Like, it can't just be this one-size-fits-all, or we're switching everything now. No, we're switching into matchups that we find to be favorable for us, not them. We don't just switch just to switch and let them dictate which matchup they get to have.

And that's what I think is the problem with the bucks and how Boodintholden-Hoser operates. I think when you first get into a situation with a bunch of young guys, you do want to simplify it. You do want to make it like, this is the defense all the time. So when you actually execute it, we know when you did it. When you mess up, we can hold you accountable. And that's what we do. But when you have a team that has championship aspirations, this whole one size fits all thing, that has to go out the window.

Players and teams are too good, too smart. They're too invested in beating what you do. And I thought that's what burnt them tonight. That team is the Hawks, right? The Hawks are that young team. But for some reason, the bus keep finding ways to play like that. And Rob, I agree with you that, like, you don't want Janice running through all those, like, screens and switching and

really burning himself all the defense. Yeah, right, I get that. But at the same time, if the margins are so slim and the hawks are hanging in there, then you're kind of counting on your offense to carry you. And as we've seen so many times, the buck's just like kind of stall out. Chris Middleton in this game was atrocious. And while Drew Holiday finally showed up and I was glad to see it, they just don't have that type of offense where they could just land a knockout punch and then we can go move on to game too. There's always something

there that the other team keeps hanging around, hanging around, hanging around, hanging around. I don't know. I just like, I think you have to play like it's game seven all the time now. Well, and the reason the margins are so small is because Trey is really damn good. I mean, just what?

If you want to run this game back and rewatch it, I would encourage you to just watch him before he gets to the screen. How much shake he's given Drew Holiday before they even get to the screen. Drew's one of the best on-ball defenders in the NBA. And, I mean, he was lost enough.

He's one of the best on-ball defenders ever. Yeah. And he was lost enough that Trey could take a full eight-second shimmy into a three. What happened there, by the way? Well, Drew just bought the other way. He tried to, he tried to, I think he tried to either cut under or sneak between Trey in the screen. Yeah, and just got caught.

Trey Young was incredible in this game. Awesome. The off-the-backboard lob to Collins was one of the best plays. I have ever fucking seen in a playoff game. Like, this dude is, like, I always say that the difference between a Steph, LeBron, and all the other superstars is those guys play like something that you want to watch as opposed to like a Marvel movie, right? They are entertainment. They are what you go and pay to see. Trey is becoming that guy before our eyes.

And I'm glad you mentioned LeBron because this was LeBron-esque in the sense that I'm controlling every single possessive. and every amazing look that's generated, aside from the ones that my man, Werter was generating in the third quarter. Because, man, I'm becoming a bigger fan of that dude as the game goes on just because of his ball skills, et cetera, et cetera. But that's besides the point.

He controlled everything when he comes to setting up the teammates, understanding who needed to be set in the pick, where on the quarter needed to be set. Just his sort of spatial record, recognition for his floater, like, understand exactly when he needs to release it to get it off in the way that he needs. Like, there was one point where he got one off on the baseline where Lopez, this guy is freaking huge.

Trey Young is a pretty small man in comparison. Lopez's arms is stretched all the way out, and the ball just floats right over his fingertips. I'm like, this guy is a genius. Yeah. Rob, do you want to do a quick funeral for your guy, Chris Miller? Donaldton. Very tough game for Chris Middleton.

I mean, I think it's inexplicable in the sense that sometimes these shots are going to go for him and sometimes they're not. I will say in these playoffs, he's been the guy who's kind of tasked with chasing the offball shooter in every series. It's been Duncan Robinson. It's been those guys, you know, for the Nets as well. And in this one, it was him chasing Hurt or around screens. I don't know if he's just feeling it in his legs a little bit, but this was not a good Chris Middleton game, especially to get a look that clean at the end of the game, a look that was that good from three.

And the buck should have solved things before then, but that's about as good as you can ask for in that moment. Yeah. So how are we feeling about our bucks going forward here? On the one hand, this was a travesty. On the other hand, they did kind of find something late here, and you have to wonder if Bud can just like step outside of himself,

maybe put away the Jeff Teague minutes just for a little bit, maybe limit them to two minutes at most, just to get your jollies off here. Like, they do have a outline for success, right? I would still think they win the series. And for me, what emboldens me to say that is if you look in that fourth quarter, how many pick and roll dunks Yonis got in a row? They just kept going to it and going to it and go into it.

And they were just making, hey, with that kind of action. And we saw variations of that throughout the game. When Middleton and Holiday were handling the ball and Yannis screening, they were just getting great stuff. And if you're able to, again, at least, contain Trey a little bit more effectively, the non-Tray Young Hawks went four for 19 from three in this game. That is a winnable formula for you.

You just need to hold Trey to 36 points instead of 40-something points. You know, that's really it. That's a lot harder than it seems, though. It is, it is. And Trey Young, by the way, he's a walking adjustment himself. He's making adjustments on the fly to what defenses are trying to do to him,

not even just game by game, possession by possession. quarter by quarter, he's making his own adjustments. So I think he's going to watch what happened tonight and figure out different ways to attack. And again, I did pick the Hawks to win this series because I thought, man, I'm not going to lie, I felt like a genius three and a half quarters into this thing.

I was like, they can't stop the Hawks. They cannot stop what they're trying to do offensively. And it's not just when Trey has the ball. It's when Hurtr has the ball too. It's Golanari finding mismatches to exploit So he can give them a pressure release valve at times as well I'm like man they have the Bucks defense figured out They're gonna score at will against them

And then that Yonis at the five happened I'm like man This is tough because Trey doesn't he he doesn't even want to shoot over Janus Much less attacked him he attacked him the one time finally at the end He attacked him off the dribble got to the paint got his floater off it looped in in and out, and that's what Capella got to put back and put them up and whatever. But I think, you know, if – because here's the problem, guys. Like, if this were Eric Spolstra or if this were my man, Ty Lou, or if this were a myriad of other coaches, Rick Carlisle, we know Janice is probably starting the game at the five, game two. He's probably playing 45 of his minutes at the five.

You know what I'm saying? Like, they're matching up his minutes to Tray Young. They're doing the entire thing that you're supposed to do when you're going. your freaking life and season is on the line. Do we know that the bucks are going to do that? No. And so I still have hope for my pick. I think,

I think, was, you made a great point about Trey being kind of a living adjustment in a way that other superstars are. And that's, to me, the big difference between him and someone like Janus. And really a reason why the bucks are flawed in this way

and why we talk about Mike Boodenholes are so much, because Milwaukee is a team that has to kind of stop and recalibrate. They have to shift gears. They need a timeout. They need, like, they need to go to the bench and reorganize and then they can change their approaches, whereas someone like Trey's going to pick you apart on the fly in the way that the great

creators do. And the Bucks don't have that. Yannis is not that kind of player. Drew Holiday is not that kind of player. And so it just takes a lot more mental gear shifting to get to the places they need to in terms of lineups, in terms of approach. And that really cost them in this one. It's like a train.

You need to like go through all this effort to switch tracks, whereas Trey Young is just doing donuts on a speedbub. I will say, though, like, they have the capability. I mean, they showed it late in the game. They do have the personnel to do it. I do think that there is a lot of uncharted territory for the bucks to expose the Hawks as well here. I'm still confused how Trey Young doesn't really get picked on as much as you think on

defense. Like that, that still just kind of blows my mind that there hasn't been one game this entire playoffs where it's like, oh, Chris Millerton put up 60 because all he did was call for switches and he got Trey Young and he just drove him to the basket, right? and you also have to wonder, like, where were the attacking on Bogdan Bogdanovich? He did not look right from opening tip. And credit to Zach Aaron in our chat room

for pointing this out here. I wonder, like, if that is another option here, where if you just go at Trey and go at Bogdanovich in this next game and just don't worry about everything else. Well, we saw some of the Bogdanovich with the way the Bucks were playing pick and roll because he was getting hung up on screens and that was part of what was getting Yon to the rim.

The Trey thing, I mean, if you're going to start PJ Tucker, he's going to stand with PJ Tucker in the corner. That's why to me that is the bigger adjustment than Lopez is they need to take Tucker out of the starting lineup. They need to match him up with Gallows minutes as best they can, and they need to get either Conitin or Forbes into that starting group. So you can just get a little more motion on Trey, make him move and guard someone a little bit more.

Yeah, and, you know, I coming into this, because Brooklyn got to game seven with KD and a bunch of dudes and James Hardin on one leg on defense. They stopped the bucks, right? I had no illusions that Atlanta would make things right by what they were doing on defense. I think they have to, they got some things to worry about without D'Andre Hunter or even Cam Reddish, as far as like bigger active wing bodies that you could throw into switching defenses, right? Stop letting the Bucks play conventional pick and roll offense.

That's what they want to do. I think Brooklyn was able to muck things up because they did switch everything and they did turn Drew Holiday into a constant one-on-one guy, right? Where he's taking five stepbacks a game from out to 25 feet. The Hawks don't really have the personnel to be very switchy right now, which I think the Bucks is so freaking lucky. Two of their wings are out because if they were switching everything on defense, I honestly think this series would be done. forcing these guys to play one-on-one all series long. You know, they would find a way to get just enough offense, but they just don't have the bodies right now.

But I still, listen, man, I will never underestimate the Bucks' ability to screw something up. Well, we're actually getting a question from the chat right now from Solomon Hill for Waz asking why you got to forget me? Why you got to be like that? Nah, no, Solomon Hill, man. Some of the shots he took. Look, I like his. Moxie, you know, he's definitely, obviously, he's not afraid of the moment that's out there,

but he's just not a guy anymore, right? And you can't count on him for defense and you, I don't know that you ever could count on him for shot making, despite that weird contract he got the one time. You know, I just don't think they have the horses on the wings, because if I'm telling you guys, if they were able to turn this into a switching series and force them to play in the half court one-on-one all the time, because Janus did, that's another thing. Yonis got a bunch of his transition stuff. He got a bunch of his Alleyu finishes. He got the stuff that Yonis needs to get to compel his points, right?

He didn't have to play in the half court all that often. So I think if you force this team to play in the half court and go one-on-one and beat you one-on-one, that's where they could be had. Yeah, I don't know, though. Like, the POS can just score so much. We never expected them to win this series on defense, right? We just assume that they could put up points. And I'm looking at the rosters.

And even though both teams didn't shoot three particularly well, like the Hawks can put four shooters out there that you have to respect. And while I'm watching the bucks on offense, it's just like if I want to slump off of like half of these guys, I'm going to do it. Like Drew Holiday is not the type of shooter that's going to put like the fear of God in you. PJ Tucker can't really shoot that much anymore. Brooke Lopez is like that one amazing season he had from three is like two seasons ago at this point. And so I'm just like packing the paint. Like, Janus got way too much in this game, and yet he still didn't get enough

because he's going to have to dominate like that, and he's going to have to get these guys open looks for it to happen. I don't know. I'm just, I'm worried if I'm the bucks that, like, the Hawks are going to keep doing this over and over again, and the bucks are the team until, and they're going to have the pressure on them. I think where it could change is if you get into one of those games

where Trey just isn't converting jumpers and floaters at this level. Because then once he starts missing some shots, and those other guys aren't even touching the ball because the bucks are sticking to them, then every long pull-up, Tray Young 3, starts eating at some guy in the back of their head. They start wanting to get involved. They start chirping at each other a little bit.

That's kind of what the drop coverage is good at, honestly, is kind of getting a team to turn on itself a little bit if the guy with the ball can't hit the shots. Trey's good enough that he can hit him enough to beat you in a series, but there are going to be games in this matchup where he doesn't, at least not at this level every time. Yeah, the bet that a lot of teams as playoffs keep making is that Trey can't be Prime Jordan.

And like, nine times out of ten, he's been absolutely incredible. If you're building your entire defense around it, well, maybe Trey won't put up 50 points on me this game. Like, that's a bad bet. I would not be taking that bet anymore. All right. Let's pivot here now. We're going to talk about some offseason news because this stuff is starting to

burble as we go along through the playoffs. A lot of teams are starting to. flip to the summer and what they could do in free agency, we need to have the Ben Simmons conversation or the coda to the five podcast long Ben Simmons conversation. But I want to start with the Celtics because they were in the news today. They hired Emia Doca from the he's with the Nets now. Last with the Nets was with the Sixers, was with Pop in San Antonio before that. Rob,

what do you think about this hire? Do you know much about Doca's background and like what he could potentially bring to the Celtics team? I mean, he's immensely well respected in the NBA, among players, among coaches. He was the guy who honestly I thought was going to get a chance at a head job coming out of San Antonio. So he has waited his turn. He has done the interviews. This is a great job for him. I really like the fit, to be honest with you.

I think to me, more importantly than anything, I heard from one source barrier that this is, Jaylon Brown really likes this dude. He was pushing for him behind the scenes. They had a working relationship at Team USA camp, et cetera, et cetera. Things really highly of just his basketball acumen, his sort of emotional intelligence stuff. So Jalen Brown likes him. Although, you know, not that I think this would be a problem. Tatum was angling for Chaunty Billups because, you know,

apparently Ty Lou and Jason Tatum were cousins. I didn't know this. Yeah, they're cousins. Okay. And so, you know, the Thai Lu, Chauncey Tatum thing, Tatum was really into the idea of having Chauncey on board because, you know, people that he really trusts really love Chaunty Billups. So I'm interested to see how that works out.

But, you know, if your main guys are on board with the hire, that's all that really matters to me right now. Because obviously they were sick to listen to Brad Stevens yap about, you know, getting in a defensive stance. Yeah, Chaunty Billups, a lot of your favorite players' favorite coaching candidate right now. I hope we get a chance to see it. We need a drop whenever Waz drops sources say on this podcast. Just like a harp playing.

No, but you're right, though. I mean, he does have the experience with these guys. He was, as Waz alluded to, he was an assistant under pop on Team Eose when they went to the World Championship in China a couple years ago. So Tatum, Brown, Smart, all played with him. Kemba did too, but, oops, sorry about that. I do want to talk about Kamba actually, though, because this podcast hasn't talked about the fallout from the trade, him going to Oklahoma City, El Horford, Moses Brown, the Internet's favorite new player going back to the Celtics.

Rob, do you have any just sense of what you think of this trade? How are you feeling about the Celtics offseason altogether at this point? I'm not sure it makes them demonstrably better. And to me, it's a bet on the idea that when the dust clears, at the end of free age, agency and there's going to be some teams left with cap space that you couldn't trade Kemba Walker to those teams. That's essentially what the Celtics are betting. I don't know that I believe that. I think that this particular free agent market is very weird in terms of the way it's laid out. There aren't a lot of super high-level guys who are going to be demanding of a lot of money.

I feel like you could get this deal in a couple months if you wanted it. And so why are we doing it now? Well, you know, my man Jared Weiss put out a big old piece over at the athletic about just the tensions that existed between certain players and Brad Stevens. And if Kemba's unhappy and he's letting the entire world know that, and he's on a bum knee, and he's owed like a trillion dollars, I get it. You know, it's kind of like, let's just wipe our hands clean of the toxicity. Brad Stevens clearly loves Al Horford to death, right? So it's an opportunity to be reunited with somebody who Brad Stevens is a big fan of.

And yeah, I think the Kemp, like, look, as a New York City guy, I'll never say anything bad about Kember Walker, because he's literally the last of the Mohicans when it comes to New York City hoopers. That's right. Was, didn't you just relay a negative story about Kempel walk? Is that negative? It's not fucking with Brad Stevens negative? What is he the Pope? I think what you just said was get the toxicity out of the locker room, which that sounds negative. No, but toxicity has to flow both ways, right?

Like, Brad Stevens doesn't obviously doesn't mess with it. That's just science, Rob. It's flowing both ways, man. You know, so obviously things weren't working carmically and spiritually, and I get that, right? So it makes sense to move on and just be like, all right, this chapter's closed. And again, what I was trying to say about Kemba is like he's clearly been diminished by his injuries for the past like two years now. So again, you're making Max money. you're injured.

I can understand getting off that contract. And our Horford's deal isn't even fully guaranteed. So I understand the move. Yeah, I'm kind of aligned with Rob here because I do wonder if like Kemba goes through the OKC car wash, like he has his time in the spa or whatever therapeutic oils and essential oils that they give to their players in order to refurbish them and send them out back into the world, most likely to land back with the Philadelphia 76ers. I do wonder if we'll look back on this and say that Brad sold pretty low on Kemba.

Like, he's hurt and obviously the Celtics know way more about his injury status than anybody else. But there is a possibility. There is a timeline here where like maybe Brad, the coach, is overrating that. He saw this up close and personal. And he's using that to influence his opinion thinking that he needs to dump him immediately when, I don't know. Maybe Kemba plays decently this season. And all of a sudden, like, you just stockpiled your right. roster with a lot of bigs. The flip side of that, of course, is like maybe there's another move

coming, right? Like, they have, what, four centers now? Horford probably best at center at this point in his career. Moses Brown, again, is the DeAnthony Melton love affair of the internet. But I don't know how much he's going to play. Tristan Thompson, Robert Williams, the guy who I thought was the love affair of the internet is still there. So there's a lot of bigs there. So there needs to be another move. Will it come? I don't know. You know what? I think I've come around on this, Rob, because I just remembered that the OKC Thunder got something for Russell Westbrook and that awful contract.

So anything is possible! All right. Sasha sends us a comment from one, Juan Torres. What's the most likely Chauncey spot? If he's not going to go to the Celtics, you've heard him rumored with Portland. Seems like he's interviewing a lot of different places.

Was, what are the streets saying? What are your sources say about where Chauncee's going to end up? Streets, honestly, just saying that he wants the buck's job, definitely heard that. But, you know, he's depending on Tray-TL and the Red Mamba to get it done for him. So we'll see if that's able to happen. But I don't see how you wouldn't want the buck's job, right? It seems like they're the closest to getting to being a championship stalwart of all the other jobs. Like, they're obviously the closest.

They're the last team standing, like literally. And, you know, just the pieces that they have, Janus is under contract, signed a big five-year deal. That would be the most desirable job to anyone should it come open. So it would stand the reason that Chauncey, not being an idiot, would be like, that's probably where I should want to coach, especially because you get to rack up the wins and your resume looks nice and shiny and polished,

and you're guaranteed to get that next deal when you land one of these plus jobs right out the game. And it sounds like barring that, he'll probably end up in Portland, I would think. And it sounds like that's a front office and ownership that are a bit divided in terms of who they want to see between him and Becky Hammond in particular. Mike Dantonie was also a finalist for that job. He seems like kind of a distant third behind those two right now. But we'll see. So, I mean, if I had to put my money on anything, it would be Chaunce ending up in Portland at this point, just because I think Bud might have bought himself a little time, but maybe we're speaking too soon.

I wonder if Chauncey would do well in the New Orleans job, too. Like, that's the growth opportunity. If you just figure out what's going on down there, like, you're set for the next five years and you've attached yourself with the next budding superstar in this league. I'm ready for the Thai-Lew coaching tree. I'm ready for that to start. But they also fired two coaches in two years.

Like, as a coach, I got to look at that like, well, actually, I got to look at that. Like, I get paid to leave. I don't know. Who knows? Like, who knows? In years past, the Pelicans haven't been willing to pay a premium, too. I mean, that's partially why they ended up with Elton Gentry a few years ago.

All right. Let's flip to Ben Simmons here now. Justin, always with the pelican shade. I love it. It's like clockwork. That's all I have, man. They've been cheap forever. You are what you are, man.

All right, Ben Simmons. Good God. what a what a bottoming out here even since we were dragging him last week um waz's had his wax but i can i can already tell you just ready to jump here just go ahead man no honestly it's some of the uh some of the stats that have come out about danny green taking more fourth quarter shots than him in a series that he played like one fourth quarter in and like the crazy stats or whatever like he's not as bad as he looked in this series against the hawks right like we know that's not the case. And so now you get to a point where how do you evaluate this guy's true value when he's coming off of just like, I don't think, like some, and this is a question I would like to post to you guys. Because everybody kind of knows where I'm at on Ben Simmons.

I think he's a glorified role guy. I don't know why we talk about him. Like he's some generational life-changing superstar, because if he was, they'd be the damn hawks. You're hawks. My hawks, exactly. But I want to ask you guys, though, like, is it possible for Ben Simmons's trade value to get worse?

Because I think it is. Really? Okay, so this is actually the conversation I wanted to have because I'm looking out here on the landscape. I'm looking at what the Sixers need, which is a ready-made star to handle the ball more, to score at a level that Ben Simmons isn't. And I'm thinking to myself,

which team is going to give that guy up for Ben Simmons after what we just saw? Which team is even in a? position to. Like, which team is looking at Ben Simmons, even if you're in a rebuilding situation and saying, we're ready to take on not just him, but his contract to move forward. You mean the Warriors wouldn't want to give up Clay Thompson for Ben Simmons? No, it's, you know, but this is my thing, though.

Joel basically, and I'm dating myself here, but he basically DJ Jazzy Jeff to him in front of the bus. Like, he just tossed this dude. right under the damn bus after that game. Like, it was savage and vicious what he did to Ben Simmons. So it's like, what kind of working environment

are they going to have in Philadelphia next year? If they bring Ben back, the coach killed him, then tried the backtrack, but he smoked them. Then, and Joelle completely smoked him. And that's like, Joelle, it felt like in that moment was like,

look, this ain't about this game. I've been doing this for years with this dude. There was times we're in, as far as the pecking order of this franchise, they were making me on even footing with this fool. And he won't take a wide open dunk with our damn lives on the line. I'm killing his ass in his post game. So I'm like, how do you bring him back into that and expect that he's going to flourish in that

when we just watched him sort of have a meltdown? Here's how that works out, is that you have just shamed Ben Simmons to the point where he cannot do anything else. I think there is so much fucking pressure on this guy now that if he does not spend his entire summer, not hanging out with whatever, like, Jenner, Kardashian family is available at this point.

Can't wait to see him at Delilah this summer. But going into the gym and actually working on just a corner three. Like I know you've done it before, but you need to step on the court next season, wherever you are and at the very least be able to shoot, be willing to shoot a corner three-pointer. If he does not do that, then it's irrevocable. Like, this will never be solved no matter where he goes.

But I do wonder if he has been guilted to the point where he has to do that. And I also wonder if the Sixers, given this conversation that's going on now, we'll find it tough to trade him for the type of player that they need in return. Yeah, I think even if he does it, we're closer to the reality where everyone tries to save face and come into next season in the hopes of moving him before the deadline. In the hopes that you can have a couple of months where he can hit some shots

or look a little better, or people can just forget about the playoffs a little bit before the deadline. I honestly think that's what they're playing for at this point. Guys, guys, guys, Ben Simmons is not going to make shots next year. This is a project that the goal should be two and three years down the line. Ben Simmons can make a reliable 15, 16 footer.

He's not going to be Carl Malone off of picking pops. season. That's not happening. Get that out of your brains. His third contract, he'll actually be able to hit a jumper. I think so. That's what they need to be working towards. Because I think somebody who's instructive of this is Blake Griffin, where his range, he slowly built it out to where he can make a three in a respectable manner now.

But he didn't just go from, you know, being the guy who everybody felt like was this unskilled, just super athletic dunker to making three. in the mid-30s, you know, at his best, right? Like, he didn't start doing that. It was 17-footers, 16-footers. Then he's coming out to 18. Now he's going out to 3. Like, he had to build that thing up from the bottom.

Ben Simmons has to do the same thing. He's not going to be making corner 3s next year. He's not going to be Bruce Bowen next year, y'all. Like, that's out of the question. That's what I'm like, he's not going to come in. He's not going to come into the same ecosystem and contacts in Philly then be some radically changed place. or next year. That's why I'm like, yo, this thing could get worse before it gets better.

Did you guys see this clip going around your own whitesman, had it in his piece at Fox Sports of Ben Simmons' first summer league and the shots he was taking? I felt like my entire life had been alive, watching him take pull up jumpers off the dribble like it was nothing. It was unreal. Yeah, things have definitely changed. That's for sure. I've been spending my free time because I'm a really cool guy, just like trying to look at the type. of trades that they could work and the keep seeing reports that like they're going to be more teams interested than you think and yada yada and like i don't know man the pool just seems so restrictive because they fall into really two groups as i was kind of alluding to before the players

that the sixers want and the type of players that they need and the players that they could probably get right like bradley beale you're not you're probably not getting unless he forces his way out and in particular he forces his way to the sixers michael porter junior doesn't make much sense SGA, like maybe if the Thunder were just completely enamored with Ben Simmons, and they could maybe work something there, but I don't think you're giving up on SGA, and he also wasn't too great last postseason. Brandon Ingram, same thing, you don't want to pay his eye on with Ben,

which brings me to the guy that I think makes the most sense here. And that's Zach Levine. I do think if you're trying to make a marriage here work, I wonder if Levine is the type of scorer now where he would fit in. to what you need around Joelle, whereas the Bulls are at the point where maybe they'd be lucky to reboot

with a star that they haven't been able to get through the draft. Was, what do you think about that? I think if I'm the Bulls and I don't want to pay Zach Levine, the 200 mil, why do I want Ben Simmons? I don't, I'm watching the playoffs. I'm seeing the Red Mamba get busy in the playoffs.

These type of players, that can go out and get their own shot against high-level quality NBA talent, they matter in this part of the calendar, in this part of the season. How can I make the calculation that Zach Levine isn't worth my paper, but trading stuff for Ben Simmons makes sense? I just, I would hang up the phone so quick, and then I changed my number. I think we've reached the point where Zach Levine is too good.

I've seen this I've seen this trade bounced around. I mean, the Sixers would be lucky to get Levine at this point, I think. But he's also a free agent. He's going to be a free agent

after the season, I believe, so there could be a leverage play, but that's assuming a lot, obviously. That really is the only variable, but was just hit it on the head. Like, if you really are hesitant about Levine's next contract, I don't really see the value

in paying Ben Simmons $30, 33, $35 million. a year. That doesn't make any sense. It's the problem with so many of these situations, which is Simmons is now on a contract that makes him a bit prohibitive to a rebuild, and he's clearly such a flawed player, he's not going to get you to a conference finals type series. So it puts you in a very limited window of teams you're talking about, basically teams

that would be comfortable with the first or second round exit, who want to make, who are desperate to make the playoffs, who want to make the playoffs, Ben Simmons could be your guy, great regular season player. He just has so much to figure out to be an effective point. post-season one. Right. So let's go through those teams now. We're talking about who?

Portland? Probably not because you're probably getting CJ, not Dame unless, again, someone forces something to happen. Yeah, okay, Dame saying y'all didn't get my right coach in here, I'm no longer, you know, Portland till I die,

get me to Philly right now. Okay, that makes sense. Unhappy superstar sort of forcing the hand. But like, just on the merits, that's insane don't disagree you would probably have to just

unload a ton of picks there too because you also have teams like the thunder just looming who are just going to be like here's 15 picks just give us Damian Liller and like the Blazers aren't going to say no to that

unless they really want to do right by their star is there a permutation of the C.J. McCollum trade where it's C.J. McCollum and some other stuff. Like is there a version of that that makes sense for the Sixers

where it's McCollum and a sign and traded Norm Powell for example? Is that enough? They're saying McConnell and Covington. Sixers legend, Rob Covington. He just gets thrown into every trade rumor. Yeah, because his contract is so cheap.

Right. I think people are going to start putting packages together, though, that we don't realize right now. For sure. Right now it's very, he's looking terrible right now, right? He looks, he's looking like a depressed, asset right now. But I think teams are going to, you know, free agency and the draft and all of the trades that happen around that. And then some teams are going to miss out on things that they wanted to have. And there's going to be this guy who's still as Florida players he is. He's still

very talented. And talent is king in this league. So I think they're going to get some good stuff. But right now, man, you, man, Habistrobin putting out some stats on this boy. Oh my goodness. I was just like, Jesus Christ. Not a lot of big numbers there. Yeah. Well, the thing about Simmons, too, is for how polarizing he is, there's one person in every front office in the NBA who loves Ben Simmons.

Yeah. And if it's the right person or if that person's persuasive enough, then maybe something gets done. Everyone has a guy. I kind of want to see him end up in San Antonio. Like, I couldn't figure out how the trade math would work there because it would probably have to be like, the Jeante Murray plus Derek White or some of these other guys that they have kicking around here.

But I don't know if that's enough to get the Sixers interested. All right, we're going to take some questions here. Adam Glaugower asks, why, this one is for you. Who did the Knicks target in the offseason for a trade? I think the Nick Dream is Brad Beale. I think he's the splashiest name. He's the guy I think Knicks fans would be most excited about it. I think the Knicks got to stand pat and pray that the Dane thing doesn't work out.

And Dane forces his way to New York. And because I think that, while not making them, you know, some type of juggernaut, a contender, that is a real team. That is a real thing in the garden with the fans and all of that. I think they should just chill. Because, look, sometimes you got to accept your overachieving for what it is, right? Like, we've all gotten with girls, guys and gals, and we were like, how did we do that? We didn't go out the next day and DM Rihanna. We just said, yo, how did we do that?

Oh, my goodness. I'm so lucky that that happened. And we move on with our lives, realizing that we got a little lucky the Stars World Line and things happened for us. I think the Knicks need to look at themselves like that in a very honest fashion. Like, yes, you made the four seed in the weirdest NBA season ever. we get it and your guys play really hard and Julius Randall is a competent player borderline actual all-star type of guy right those are nice things to have you ain't the hawks okay you're not the hawks at all you know what close to the hawks so just keep moving in the direction that you can get

to be the hawks one day the way those conversations intersect though about dame and brad beled though is going to be really interesting waz i think you hit it where the chilling of of what's gone on in Portland on the Brad Beal market potentially if you're one of those suitors, you have to wait. You have to wait to see if Dame comes available. He's just a different class of player than Brad Beal is right

now. So whether it's the Knicks or any of these other teams that have superstar dreams, Dame is worth waiting for. Yeah, that's the problem with some of these teams. There really aren't many superstars you know you could hit your wagon to and your franchise's destiny has completely changed forever.

Why would you settle for a B-level guy. If you were the Knicks, you took all this time to do it the right way for once. Would you really like sacrifice everything in order to like get DeAngelo Russell in there? And so he could put up 50 points and give up 60 other way. Like that is my worry with the Knicks. But it seems like they're prudent enough these days that they're not going to do it. One last question here on all season stuff. This is from James Schenher. He says where should Mike Conley go? Conley is a free agent, I believe, this summer. He was making a ton of money up until now.

Rob, do you think he would consider leaving Utah, especially after what we just saw for another place? I kind of think he'll end up staying. And, I mean,

frankly, Utah's playoff fate could have been very different if he was healthy, and if Mitchell was healthy. Like, we're talking about that team as if it's fatally flawed, you know,

Gobert versus Smallball is its own thing that needs to be addressed, but they weren't functional. Like, they weren't a functional team in the way they were during the regular season.

So I think Conley has seemed very happy there. And he, there are even some stories in the middle of the season where he was talking about how happy he was going to be to resign. So I would fully expect him to be back. Yeah, I don't know why people are panicking on the jazz. Like, you had a great season.

You have a great player, obviously great player in Donovan Mitchell. As much as people kept blaming stuff on Rudy, excuse me, Reggie Jackson was blowing by people off the dribble with no resistance whatsoever. That's not a Rudy thing. Excuse me, I'm sorry, you had one. uncompetent wing defender the whole night. Like, you guys were getting smoked. And also, like, as great of a story as Terrence Mann is,

the guy made five, he's dropped 40 in the game that sent you home. His career high in college was 30. He scored, he hit five threes his sophomore year in college. The whole year. He hit five threes in that game or on that third quarter or something. Like, the circumstances seemed kind of extraordinary that kicked you out of the playoffs, right? So I would, man, if I'm Utah, I'm bringing my team back. I like my team, especially if we could just, you know, withstand a sort of war of attrition when it comes to

injuries, et cetera, et cetera. You got to like your team as much as damn there anybody else's. If you're Utah, especially when you're Utah and it's not like you'll ever be an AD candidate, you'll ever be like d. James like, yo, get me to Utah. You'll never be one of those guys, right? So to me, this is close to the ideal of what you're going to get as a Utah Jazz. Save for doing something like what OKC had achieved when they had Westbrook, Hardin, Ibaka, et cetera, all through the draft.

Unless you hit lightning in a bottle, catch lightning in a bottle, excuse me, I'm so terrible at these damn phrases. Unless you catch lightning in a bottle like that, this is the best you're going to do as a Utah Jazz. Yeah, if I'm the Jazz or Conley, my takeaway from the season is Donovan Mitchell is that dude. Like, that is a guy I am comfortable hitching,

my career, my years, my future, too. He was awesome when he was healthy. Is he? I was very impressed. I mean, yeah, impressive playoffs, but I think we're getting a little overboard and like starting to give campaign a max contract and acting like Terrence man is like the second coming of small Draymond here, man.

It's getting a little overboard. Like if we're taking a step back and like recalibrating what we just saw in the playoffs, like that is one of them. Mitchell's good. I don't think he's like, I don't think he's like elite level type A sort of guys. Why are we pooling Donovan Mitchell with campaign and Terrence Mann? How does that happen?

It's disrespectful. How did that happen? It's just blatant disrespect. I think Mitchell has shown that, you know, I think he could get to the level that Trey Young has shown you that he's gotten to on a night-to-night basis, right? When he's right. Like, he makes your offense matter. And he makes it so that you'll never just be having quarters worth.

of terrible postseason offense, right? When he's right. And I think that's important. That's a very valuable player. And you got some nice pieces around you. I don't know. I'm still, I was bullish on Utah last year. The Conley thing never jelled the way it was supposed to in year one.

Year two, I was bullish again. And they were great, right? The best team in the regular season, I'm still high on the guys that they have. I think if everything aligns right, they can be just as powerful as most of the teams in the West, the top teams. Yeah. I mean, they definitely have something here. My two concerns are, I'm actually not concerned about Mitchell. I actually think, like, his progress as a deep three-point shooter has kind of been remarkable.

Yeah. And I mean, I don't know if he's that dude, but he's a dude. You know, he's a dude you could definitely win with. Is he the dude? No, he's a dude. Okay. He's on dude. French.

I think my concern is that the existential dread of what happened to Rudy this postseason starts to seep in to like the couch here. And it's something that's plagued them the past couple postseason. This isn't just a one-time blip. And so you start to worry about things a little bit more than you should. It's kind of reminded me of it's what I call Joe Johnson Hawks syndrome where it's like you got stuff. You could definitely win a lot of games, but is there a ceiling on this team? and when you start thinking about that, you start to like maybe doing too much

or maybe not doing enough in order to really fix what you have. That's all. The comparisons here are just brutal and as well as said, disrespectful. I mean, like,

Donovan Mitchell's not 25 years old yet, right? Like, I feel like you have, if you're Utah, you have to be begging on the idea that my guy's going to be better again next year. You know, like,

at whatever that is, he's going to add something more to this amazing package that he's already providing for us on a night-to-night basis. Like, if I got a young guy who's that athletically gifted and some of the other stuff that he's getting better at is the skill stuff and the sort of veteran savvy of perfecting angles and drawing fouls,

like, that's a really, really, really impressive players. So I don't know. I'm known for being in the tank for Donovan Mitchell, so I'm still pretty bullish on what the jazz could do, specifically if they bring Mike Connolly back. I just think he was the only one that developed a true pick and roll chemistry with Rudy. And they didn't have that, basically, the entire postseason, you know?

And so I think you bring that guy back at a number that's like, you know, it's going to sound bad. It's going to be like three years, 90 or 100 or something like that. But, yo, if you're Utah, what do you do? Well, that's concerning for two reasons. He's 33. Boyan is 32. Ingalls is 33. So those are going to be things you have to weigh here.

And also Rudy and Donovan alone are going to put you up against the luxury tax because both of them are making Max or near Max. And that's a concern that you're really going to have unless we figure out what's going on with Dwayne Wade's willing to spend on this team. Well, their new owner came in talking tough, Verrier. He was like, yeah, we're going to do all the kinds of things. And they did the Rudy deal as like a show of force. Like, yo, we spending money out here. So let's see if he puts his money where his mouth is, man. Spend it to the tax.

Yeah. And you mean how much Gabby Union is willing to spend on that team, right? Yeah, we know she's, you know, we know she wearing the pants in that relationship for sure. Right. I caught an episode of The Cube the other night. It's a trip, man. Let me tell you. It's literally like throwing bouncy balls like in various ways.

Like who the fuck was like on acid when they came? It was on in the background in my crib and I was just like, yeah, I'm on Instagram. Right. All right. Let's move along here. So Sons and Clippers, game three tomorrow night on Thursday. Clippers are down 02 yet again. And it just gets worse for them.

Chris Paul looks like is going to be back for game three. He's officially probable. Quai Leonard is listed as out. We haven't really heard much reporting around that situation, unless Waz wants to drop a Waz bomb here. No, I got nothing on the Kauai front. Well, you know, the thing is the Clippers are one of those organizations that shady with the injury stuff.

Like, you know they're not going to say anything. Right. And we've definitely seen people go from out to playing immediately like James Hardin earlier. So I don't know what to put much stock into the injury report here. So the question is, though, if they do get CP back and the Clippers do not get Kauaiwas, is this a wrap already for the Clippers? Yeah, I don't think they're going to win the series. I'd like to see them make something of it, though, right?

And I know I'm the 700 millionth person on the internet to make the joke that the series doesn't start until the Clippers go down 02. But that's kind of been the case in the playoffs so far. So, you know, they go back to Staples. I'm not going to lie, game six was a pretty decent crowd over there. I think they actually helped carry them in that third quarter when they were mounting the miraculous comeback. So I think they're going to have a great crowd. They're going to be juice.

Paul George's, look, man, it's something about not having to figure out if you're the 1A, 1B, 2, 3, whatever, now that Kauai's going. that's kind of unleashed something in him. And, you know, he's played great. So I think they'll be able to take a couple of games off of these guys. And Sun's Twitter is killing me because I picked the Lakers to beat them. They were up to one and was about to smoke you in game four before AD went down.

Stop hitting my mentions, please and thank you. Stop gloating about me being wrong about my Lakers pick. AD went down, fam. Not that I got that out the way. I just think they could get some games off of these guys. But I don't think they're going to win the series without, no, there's not winning the series. Sorry to answer the question. Yeah, Phoenix's baseline execution is just too high, even without Chris Paul. And now you get him back on top of all that. That's really hard to overcome. Plus, I'm at the point, too, where with playoff P, less than an entity in himself, he's just like a vehicle for karmic balance.

You know, like Pat Beverly was strutting around and then Paul George goes to the free throw line and misses two free throws. There's a greater power here that is that is harnessing him and channeling these games. And it seems to be favoring the Sons at the moment. Yeah, I mean, Pat Bev completely warped that game. It was pretty much an Australian rules football game at a certain point. And he got it exactly where he wanted it, where Devin Booker was damaged quite literally. And like things were a little bit more physical than they needed to. He was getting the calls he wanted and to not come out with that game.

Man, that's brutal. But I have to say, like, the Clippers have put up a fight. But, yo, but did you guys see the internet video where they're trying to say that Pat Bev made himself bleed in order to do the freaking to get the extra time? Like, there's a, there's a meme going around. It's like, yo, Pat Bev, like, it's a crazy person. He's like cutting his head. Shouts to McFoly.

Shouts to Mick Foley. No, I mean, so the one thing that I've always really liked about the Clippers and something we've talked about with them dating back to when Kauai and Paul George for us kind of joined this team was that they had such depth that they could really match up with any team right we talk about this all the time with other teams that you have to have to have the personnel in order to be able to conform to whatever your opponent is getting to you and I have liked how they've been able to go small Zubotch they've gone back to him I'm not sure how effective those minutes have been but he's definitely a big you could throw out there and maybe

contain Aiton for a little bit my concern overall is just that the sons don't have to change who they are in order to match up to whatever the Clippers go at. Like, their base starting lineup is so big enough, and yet, like, switchable and spry and they have shooting, that even with campaign in there, it just works. Like, I think that's a credit to, like, Ryan McDonough, James Jones, all these people that put that team together.

Like, without Chris Paul, that core is pretty impressive. Well, and a shout out to D'Andre Aiton, too, who has been agile enough in the pick and roll to hold up even when they do go small and gives you enough offensively that it's not a problem in the way that it was with Rudy Gobert. What Aiden's been able to do in these playoffs and the comparisons he's starting to draw,

which I think are pretty well deserved. I mean, he's put himself into some pretty special company in terms of bigs who can sustain value irrelevant of matchups, irrelevant of big, small conditions, whether the point guard he's trying to pick up in the pick and roll is a threat to pull up or not, whether he's picking up,

you know, hedging against Paul, George or bumping this guy. He's proven to be just a really versatile defender in a way that a year ago would have seemed impossible. Yeah, preposterous. Right. So we have a question from Vance Williams, which is related to this, is Zubach the problem for the clippers was.

What do you think? They kind of have to play him in the sense that with Kauai out, they can't just do the all wings all the time lineup, right? And Aitin is not the type of guy. He's not Rudy Gobert. meaning you put a small guy on him. He's going to punish the guy, right? So they kind of have to play with size

because offensively the Sun Center is competent. He catches, he can take a dribble, jump hook, like they can catch a lob. He's an offensive threat one-on-one and when he's being set up for stuff. So they kind of have to play with some size. And by the way, I want to give a special shout out to Devin Booker because as somebody who played high school ball

for an Irish Catholic dude named Tim Leary who literally cared nothing more than this stuff, like your star player, your best player, planting a dude with the screen, he buried Zubach. That was... The full shove. He was like, I'm going to freaking bury this dude.

And that's why Aiton got free for the lob. But no, you guys. to play Zub. He's the only size they got, man. Like, Aiton is going to chew these little guys up otherwise. They played him 34 minutes, Zubot's last game. He broke even. What, he broke even. Like, they were net zero in those minutes, which is fine if you're the clippers.

Like, if you want to do that and then try to win at the end of the second and fourth with small ball, I think that's kind of your recipe. Except when the game comes down to a lob play. And for some reason, the Clippers have literally everything you could want on a roster, except for a big guy who could jump over a sheet of paper. Like you had to Marcus Cousins on the ball, completely misplayed that. And while, yes, like, Booker completely shoved the shit out of Zubatch and there's really not much you could do there.

Like, he wasn't even coming close to DeAndre Aiden on that alleyup because he's just like, he's not athletic. And like, he's, it's weird because I kept hearing about him is like this, this steel that they got from the Lakers and like, oh my God, like he's going to be a magical part of this. know what they're doing. They gave Zubach away. How could they? And like he's a useful player. He's a nice player. I don't think he's much more than just like a rotational big. Can I also say one more thing about that last play? Like I keep seeing people talk about Monty Williams

like he's like Mozart with the the chalkboard here. He literally ran an L. Upe and his guy was bigger than the other one. Can we stop acting? And again, Devin Booker set an amazing screen. Right. He literally set a back screen for an al-Upe. Every team runs it in the same situation. Like, Moni has been incredible this series, but this is not a representation of that. You sound like me and Sam Hinky. No, he's not the first person to figure out that losing get you ping pong balls, guys. I'm going to take the hot take position that, yes, that was actually a good play.

Put some respect on J. Triano's name, okay? I'm a J. Triano apologies. I really need his memory to be remembered here. What's the deepest, what's the deepest cut position we could take on that last? We haven't talked about Jay Crowder's pass. We haven't talked about Aiton, Holden Zubatz's jersey,

dragging him into the Booker screen. There's layers we have yet to go. We didn't get to campaign. Well, we'll save that for another podcast. All right. We'll just wrap it here then. Thank you to Waz. Thank you to Rob.

Thank you to Sasha Ashall on production. Thank you to Pat Moldownie for walking us through this technological world that we find ourselves. And thank you to all of you on Green Room for joining us. We'll be back same time, same place next week. We'll see you.