The Ringer NBA Show - Trae Young Declares, Robert Williams’s Future, and Kentucky One-and-Dones | Draft Class (Ep. 234)

Episode Date: March 23, 2018

The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor and Jonathan Tjarks is joined by Danny Chau to project the NBA future for Oklahoma sensation Trae Young (2:00), discuss Texas A&M big man Robert Williams (19:00), and analyze Kentucky freshmen Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Jarred Vanderbilt (29:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's draft class is brought to you by the Google Assistant. With the Google Assistant, you can complete over a million actions on your phone and your car and around your house. For example, hey Google, get directions to Major Domo Restaurant. The best way to get to Major Domo by car is via Riverside Drive and will take about 34 minutes in moderate traffic. Download the Google Assistant. We're also brought to you by The Ringer.com. On the site today, you can find a bunch of great content, including a fantastic, beautifully written piece by Danny Chow, who'll be on today's show, and it's about building around Janice and Nicola Yokic and the difficulties the nuggets and the bucks are having building around their star bigs.

And also, please continue to check out One Shining Podcast with Titus and Tate. They'll be doing a show tonight after the Sweet 16 games, so looking forward to that. Now, it's time for Draft Class. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Kevin O'Connor, and this is Draft Class, calling in as he does every Friday from Dallas, Texas's fellow Ringer staff writer, Jonathan Charks. What's up, guys? And here in Los Angeles is my man, the Ringer Associate Editor, Danny Chow. Yes, I'm here for the third time.

Yes. I'm back. Happy to be here. And our intro music is brought to you from the band Oso Oso. And as always, the podcast will be produced by Isaac Lee. Great to be here as always. The dulcet tones of Isaac will be blessed. Isaac is the greatest singer of all time. The voice of an angel.

If you guys have not heard it, we did a little play on Michael Jackson's Billy Jean for Sister Jean, who is now moving on to the Elite 8. Yes. Congratulations to her. Congrats. Congrats to Loyola. And her basketball team and listen to Isaac Lee on The Ringer.com. Gallagher did most of the work, by the way. Just saying. But you sang it. And you killed it. You slayed it. It's all about this voice.

And you can write lyrics. It's the voice that matters. It wouldn't be a no for me, dog. All right. All right, let's do it. So this week in the NBA, three of the top prospects declared for the draft. We have Arizona's big man, DeAndre Aten, Moamba from Texas. We've talked a lot about those guys. The one guy that we weirdly haven't talked much about at all is one of the most interesting prospects of the entire college season.

And that's Oklahoma point guard, Trey Young. He's a guy who started the year looking a lot like Stefan Curry. And then towards the end of the season, it just all fell apart once Oklahoma got into conference play. People were high on, I'm talking about it as the number one pick. And then it was like, well, wait a minute, should he even enter the draft? We haven't talked about him really at all. Charks had a piece on Trey Young earlier last week, I believe, after the first week. end of games, but there hasn't been a lot of discussion amongst us between him. So I'm going to

open it up, Charks. Trey Young, what are your thoughts on him as a prospect at the next level? I know you said in your piece that he has a high floor. What gives him that high floor? I just think it's the combination of shooting, passing and ball handling. Like a lot of the guys people compare Trey too. I'm like, oh man, maybe he's Jimmer for Dead or Buddy Field. Like those guys couldn't pass. They were just one-dimensional players. Like, Trey Young is obviously very, very on athletic, but he's just a smart player, and he can do so many different things on the cold offensively. I think he'll help his team pretty much no matter what.

I think that's the key thing, really, is that for me, there's been a little bit of backlash with Trey Young where he started the year so high. Everybody was all over him, like, oh, he looks like Steph Curry. He's the Stephen Curry College, which he was. He was playing like that, just draining threes from anywhere on the court. It was unbelievable to watch. But then once his shots weren't falling, he was not going to be NBA player. He's not athletic enough.

But it's like, yeah, you can be a good NBA player and not be a great athlete. Because of his passing vision, his ability to really, I think, see passes ahead, pass guys open. He's a really good passer. And what he brings to the table is very rare. Having a guy who can, you know, be comfortable pulling up from 27 feet out is one of the biggest luxuries you can have in the NBA. Having a guy who can, you know, pass people open, as you just said, is huge. The fact that he's, you know, a 6-2, 6-3 scrawny guard, it's not necessarily in vogue in the league right now, but his skill set is what's going to set him apart from pretty much any other guard prospect in this draft.

I have a conspiracy theory, and I've talked to a handful of NBA people about him, especially at Sloan last month in February, and like a lot of people were like, oh, yeah, we would hate if our owner wanted him because he's the type of guy you draft expectations are too high, and then he never meets those expectations, then you lose your job. That was the mindset. And they're like, oh, yeah, we have him ranked like 12th or 13th. And I understand if somebody has him that low, but I feel way more comfortable with him at like the 6, 7, 8-ish range, like smack in the middle of the lottery, just because of the fact

that are we overthinking it with him a little bit where, like you said, Danny, he's a rare player with his ability to hit tough shots. But even if he doesn't have to do that in the NBA, like Charles wrote about in his piece this last week, he's somebody who can shoot off. to catch at a high level. He's somebody who can potentially shoot off of screens, which he didn't have to do in college. He's somebody who can, as we talked about, he can pass, can hit floaters. I think he granted he needs to get more, he needs to get stronger around the rim.

But everyone does. Everyone does. And he's shown the ability to hit some tough layops. I just feel like there's been a little bit too much scrutiny because everybody's holding him against the Stefan Curry bar, which I think is ridiculous to do. Right. Over, you know, his first half of the season, which was just like completely unsustainable. and, like, it was a joy to watch, but...

Well, I think, too, it's like, if his team was a little better, he wouldn't have taken so many shots, and he'd be more viewed a little more, like, rationally. But as you say, he took so many shots early to everyone kind of put the expectations on him. I wrote about this in my piece. Guys like Trey Young aren't normally one undone players. Like, no one says, oh, man, look at the six-two outside of guard.

He's got to go pro right away. Like, guy that usually stay in school two, three, four years, work on our body, work on our craft. Whereas Trey kind of had lightning in a bottle. It has to go. Damien Lillard is a freshman at Weber State, 11.5 points per game, playing in the big sky conference. And the thing about Damien Lillard was that he had a growth spurt in college. When he got recruited, he was, I think, six feet tall, 155 pounds.

Like, he was barely recruited. So, like, now when you think of him, you're thinking a 6-3-195 guy. And it's just like he's a best rapper in the NBA now. Yeah, he's a completely different player. You know, the Trey Young we're seeing right now may not be the Trey Young we see even, you know, in two years. And that's the fascinating thing with him is there's been so much conversation. First of all, like, I'm disappointed that we all agree. I wish one of us hated him as a prospect.

That makes me very sad. I guess to argue on behalf of the people that say they're against him as a prospect, it's because of the lack of strength. It's the fact he only has like a six three wingspan. And I think, as you said in your piece charts, that might be generous. he's a small guy, he's really lean and he's the type of player where if the offense isn't at a great level or even a very good level,

the defense for him is extremely worrying. I think that's the type of thing where teams are going to attack him relentlessly on the floor, it's going to hold him back early on. Charks, what are the things that he needs to do in order to not be a total liability? Does it even have to do anything with defense or is it really about his offense

becomes so good that the defense just doesn't matter? Well, I mean, that's a good question. As you were saying that I was thinking of Isaiah just in terms of, like, it's just defense going to be that bad. Is he that, will he be that bad, though? Like, Isaiah's 5-9, 5-10, and really strong. That's probably a four for his defense.

But Trey's got to get in the weight room for one. And then I'm still going to start trying on defense. And that was a tough part, too, about his team because, oh, you really couldn't have him getting in foul trouble or doing any more. So you really just kind of hit all the season. Yeah, and you're pretty much, like, scouting report of who he, where he stands

as a prospect now after they got bumped in the first round, you had mentioned that OU was basically hiding him against Rhode Island all game long. They were doing everything they could. And that's Rhode Island. Yeah, exactly. It's not the Brooklyn Nets. It's not the Houston Rockets. And I think, you know, to that point in terms of hiding a guy on defense,

it's not just the Isaiah Thomas's of the world. We saw last week with the Houston Rockets against the Portland Trailblazers, the Houston Rockets tried getting Lillard on a switch constantly. They constantly wanted to get hardened matched up against Dean. And that's what's going to happen with Trey Young. I think for me, he's going to be a liability on defense. That's just the reality of it. I don't think there's really, really any hope that he becomes a great defender or even a good defender.

Unless he's like in a Steph Curry situation where he's surrounded by an unbelievable defenders where any limitations don't really matter as long as he's giving effort. To me, it's really just about his offense. It's about what level he reaches on that end of the floor for him to matter. Is he going to be a spark plug scoring six man as like a floor? because I think he, I feel pretty safe saying that he'll be that, or is he going to be the type of guy that maybe leads your team? Like, what's your confidence level, Danny, with his ability to reach a high level offensively?

Let's just say top 10, top 12 point guard in the league. I mean, yeah, it's really about the infrastructure that teams are going to be able to build around him. That's kind of my concern about drafting him maybe in the top five. I have them very high on my big board, but I'm just thinking from a team perspective, look, if you don't have the players to support him, as, you know, everything you just pointed out, then he's going to be limited.

It's going to be very hard to have him maximize his potential at the NBA level. Like, at the college level, he was playing with four guys who just were never going to be able to boost them up to a higher level. And he led the nation in points and assists anyway. So I'm not that confident, but, you know, stranger things have happened. How about your sharks? I would say the one thing is, like, with a guy like Trey Young, I remember so when Shane Larkin was in Dallas first time. And Shane had the same size as Trey. young. And he wasn't like super aggressive right away.

And when you're that small, you have to be very, very aggressive because you're going to give a point on defense possibly. You have to score enough points for that it bounces out in your lack of defense. And after Trayley hasn't been, too, is because he's going to look for a shot. He's going to score enough, I think so. As Kevin said, it bounced out a little bit. So no matter what happened, I think the cost-benefit will be okay for. Is there like an ideal situation you guys see him fitting into in terms of the lotto teams? The Caval of LeBron. That's the ideal. stick him in that Kyrie

Roring roll see what he can do I got one for you How about the Knicks You have Frank Carting him on defense Him and Kristack I like it Yeah and then they're both

are going to get benched for Chera Jack Oh my God Mano Moudier Yeah And Moudier is gonna start Got to start Aminio Mudié

I think of the Trayberg Mudiye combination I'm really I'm looking at other teams In the lottery How about the Sixers Like let's say he slips to 10 Oh man he gets a lot of buckets there A lot of back ends.

A lot of length on the Philadelphia 76ers. I think he playing playoff ball of Ben Simmons. Can play with Fultz if Fultz ever gets back. That's a pretty good fit, too, if I'm Philly. I've already kind of mentally prepared for the magic to draft him. Like, I just, like, wherever they are. I think right now they have the third best odds at the number one. It doesn't matter where they draft.

I think they're getting trae-offs. Really? Yeah. And just everything that they've, you know, they need a guy who's kind of like a star player and he has raised his profile like exponentially over, you know, the past year. They got rid of Alfred. There's like a spot for him there. I don't know. I see it. You bring up an interesting point, Danny, because if you're minimizing basketball talent, you're ranking these guys by star power. Trey Young's a top three, top four guy in this draft for star power, for impact, for hype. Most

recognizable hair too. Absolutely for now. Yeah. Yeah. Spinning rapidly. Right. I think one of our colleagues, Micah Peters, described it as if you dropped a lollipop into a barber room floor and just kind of rolled it around. Oh, my goodness. How do you think of this? He's brilliant. He's brilliant. Holy shit.

Yeah. That's funny. That is the best analogy. I will say, like, having straight in Orlando would be fun just because, like, you have some games where he looks amazing for, like, 30 points on 16 shots. They have some gang who he scored, like, five points on 20 shot. It would be a great, like, year-round circuit having a lot of it. We just jacked the ballpark

Do you worry about that shot selection with him? I mean, it was a topic of conversation in high school, it wasn't Oklahoma, will it be in the NBA? Is it the type of thing where will he be willing to play within a system, or is that part of his nature or just hasn't been just the situations he's been in

where he's been enabled to do it, but in the NBA, it'll be okay. Well, I think there will be a big learning first. That's the thing with, like, young, is I wonder, I think he's smart enough that I'll figure it out, but they'll get time where it's like, you know, We're going to take a quick break, tell you about Yahoo Fantasy Baseball. Then we're going to come back and talk about Trey Young's comp Rushmore from Jonathan Charks.

Today's episode is brought to you by Yahoo Fantasy Baseball. Spring training is in full swing, so that means it's time to start thinking about Yahoo Fantasy Baseball drafts. Flex your skills is a general manager and crush your league with the Yahoo Fantasy app. The Yahoo Fantasy app is the number one mobile app in fantasy baseball. You can draft, trade and manage your team right from your phone. The new weekly format makes it even easier to run your team all season. You can use the set active players feature to set your lineup for the week in one tap. Sign up now at yahoo.com slash fantasy baseball.

Create your own league or join a public league. Don't miss out on baseball season. Yahoo Fantasy Baseball is the official fantasy game of Major League Baseball. And now back to the show. All right, we're back. Charks, it's my favorite segment every Friday with you. It's called Rushmore. Okay, yeah.

So with Tray Young, what do I think I decided to do? We'll make a lot of bad comparisons from this thing. we won't do any obvious ones. Don't be a Steph Curry comp. Don't be a jimmer for dead com. I'm going to throw some names at you. Let me know it's straight. Okay, so the first one, there is nothing new under the sun, Tom.

Mark Price. Do you remember him? I do. Free throw Guler. Early 90s, late 80s. Yeah, the original. Not for MKG. Oh, yeah.

He totally butchered MKG shot, but continue. I don't know what you could have done about that, so, man. What is he like? You got to be a legitimate barrel for a six out. Okay. that this guy is probably just good enough comp, Mo William. Okay, I like that one.

And then we got the, I hope this guy isn't an athletic comp, and that's Tyler Ennis. And then the final one is, this guy should be okay, no matter what, it's the Tyos Jones. Those are good. I like the Mo Williams one for him.

I'm not really feeling the Tyos Jones one as much because I think Tyos Jones is just such a tremendous game manager in college. Maybe that was partially due to situation, but that dude, you could rely on to make the right plays. And Trey Young, it's like, eh, chill out, dude, relax.

Right. Some of the passes. But then again, like, you look at, if he was playing with Justice to the real, I bet Trey goes back. Fair. Very fair. A lot of us do the situation

when you look at Trey Young's teammates. Right. And with Tias, he was playing with two of his Team USA teammates. You know, they had such a great rapport that year. And Trey Young, again, was playing with, like, four wooden planks.

Yeah, they actually had offense at Duke. They did not run an offense to Oklahoma. It was Trey. Go get a bucket from 40 feet. Everybody else get out of the way. And if you get the ball, get it back to Trey, or just throw it at the backboard and hope something good happens. So yesterday was the Sweet 16th.

I was at the game with Titus with Tate and Zach Schwartz, social media guy at the ringer.com. And we watched Texas A&M in Michigan start off the day in Los Angeles. And Robert Williams, top prospect, the big man, you wrote about him this week on the ringer.com charts. versus Mo Wagner from Michigan. And Michigan just completely smoked Texas A&M from start to finish charts. I know you're really high on Robert Williams.

Was there any concern after yesterday's game, or is just, again, another one of those games where he's just not in a great situation, need to plug him into an NBA role to really see what he's about. Before we start that, so I had a report on the game that one Mo Wagner was, quote, unquote, starstruck when he met the great captain of honor. Is this true? I don't know. I saw, he listens to the Ringer NBA show and I said hello to him in the hallway.

And Titus and Zach claimed that he was like, oh, wow, KOC. Yeah, word is, apparently he was like, oh, man, I'm starstruck right now. Kevin O'Connor. Kevin O'Connor. That is incredible. It's a big fan of the Ringer NBA show. He's going to be ranked number one on my board ahead of DeAndre Aiton. Hey, you guys got to pronounce his last name right now.

Wagner. I've heard Wagner and Wagner. It's not Wagner, though. Yeah, he's from Germany, man. Oh, yeah. I'm not a fanatic. It's interesting with his last name. I switch between Wagner and Wagner, but I hear Wagner a lot. It's very interesting. I got family over in Germany. I know it's Wagner. In a small town in Germany called Wiesbaden. It also starts with a W. So, you know, I think it's Wagner. Is it going to be intercultural chow over here? Is it going to be the type of thing where, like, with Jonas Jurebko, it's actually Yonis Yerbko, where his entire career, it's just going to be Wagner, Wagner, Wagner, Wagner, or maybe even Wagner in some cases. I feel like we did a good enough job with Dirk Novitsky that we can make that change.

It's like Dirknewitsky. Yeah, but Dirk was awesome. He just made that change. Yeah, I think you're just. Like five points the game off the bench, like Jerebko is, you know. You got to be great to like the banter name. That's exactly the point. Yeah.

This is why it's very important to have. Any channel on the podcast. Not only you see a great end of him, he's a great speech coach. So guys, Wagner as a player.

Okay, yeah, yeah. Well, I guess from that game, the first thing, and it was really unfortunate, William couldn't really guard him the entire game because A&M had

this really old school big man, Tyler Davis. And that was kind of story of the game for me is like they couldn't have Davis card in study on that team. So either they had them switching screen,

giving a point of, I will, or playing zone in zone michigan and so williams it seemed like he was kind of a passive bystander it wasn't much he could do but i don't okay so you thought like he kind of took out of the game mentally at a certain point yeah i thought pregame i was watching him a lot uh he was super super hyped up during the national anthem um then during pregame intros really hype more so than like a lot of his teammates it was just very apparent how hyped he was to play the game and i was excited it was like okay hell yeah he's gonna come out with a ton of energy in this game and he did like he had a great chase down block

early on, some other good defensive plays, despite the fact he wasn't defending Wagner, which didn't make any sense for Texas A&M. But it quickly fell off a cliff. His energy levels looked really low. He looked like he quickly lost the spirit. Michigan just stomped on that team yesterday. I mean, that was brutal. For sure. That was a vicious thing that was. Oh, it was 52 points in the first half from Michigan, 9972 game. It was, it was, they, they killed them yesterday. And Robert Williams, ideally, you would have liked to see him continue to maintain his energy levels. And I'm not using this as a knock against him necessarily. It's just really an observation. I think it's okay if a guy on the defensive end of the floor is overly emotional. I think that can be channeled

into high intensity defensive play when things are going well. The concern is, is like, there's situations where when they're still not totally out of that game in the first half, where he has an opportunity to get a chase down block and he doesn't really go forward, he just kind of slowly jogs at the floor. That's where it's like, dude, I wish I would see him just turn it on in that moment and take that anger and that really anxiousness and turn it into like a play that could change the feel of the game for his team, but instead he didn't. Yes, he was at the end of a rotation. He went to the bench shortly afterwards.

Maybe he was just tired. But it's little things like that where it's like if he's really going to be a guy that anchors your defense, I would love for him to make those plays in those moments sharks. I think you know what it reminds me of is like it's like a defensive big. It has to be in a perfect situation. It kind of reminds you of like Norlin's Noel. And, like, Merlin's went in a bad situation right away, and he was kind of useless because there's too many bigs around us. And he saw it in that game last night.

Like, if Robert Williams is not in a spread floor, he doesn't have a good point guard or a lot of shooting around him, it's going to be a waste of kids. Like, he has to really be in the right spot. And it's also the stuff, too, like, he was extended at the start of the season. It's just bizarre you would think, okay, I'm coming back to school. I'm passing up millions of dollars. You would think he'd come into the season, like, okay, that's just too well, which lead this team. And he comes in, he's been in for, like, three or four games. and I kind of still told the entire team this year.

A&M was very, they had no leadership. They had, like, more tough guys spend it all season. And it seemed like Williams, the kind of guy is going to revert to this situation. So if he's in a good one, maybe it's good, but if you get drafted the wrong team, it might have solved our phone, though, like we did this year.

Yeah, I mean, this was a brutal loss for Robert Williams' hive, which I am a member. I love the guy. He's one of my favorite prospects in the draft. I'm just a sucker for first impressions. I saw, I caught him live in a game earlier the season against USC, back when they were still considered one of the best teams of the nation. And Williams just swallowed their entire frontline hole.

Like, Metto, Boatwright, two guys who I think are, you know, Metto is definitely going to be a prospect. Boatwright is kind of a fringe guy, but he's a guy who looks like an NBA prospect, 6-10, who can shoot from three, pretty athletic. And Williams was able to cover him on the perimeter. He swallowed Matu inside. I mean, it was Bo Wright's probably the worst game I'd ever seen him play, and Mattu just had no answer for his strength, for Williams' strength down low. And this was maybe like a game or two after he had come back from suspension.

Yeah, I'm looking at the stats now. It was a type of game where only scored four points. But it's a type of game where his impact was significant, eight rebounds, four blocks, and 23 minutes, 75-59 win for Texas A&M over at the time, 10th ranked USC. The big thing with him was that he had come into the season, he had given an interview about how he wanted to expand his game,

how he was working on his three-point jumper, and you just didn't see any of it because of Tyler Davis pretty much. Like they needed to feed their, you know, is he his junior or senior? The junior, yeah. So they needed to feed their, you know, their cash cow there. I think to your point, Danny, that's where a little bit of my concern is with Robert Williams. It's like, yeah, you're right. He did, you know, want to go back and improve in all those areas,

but he was worse from the free throw line, 47% this year. I was pretty good for the free throw line, yeah. And he's jumper is really rough. Yeah. He has a really rough jump shot. Mechanically, his limbs are just flailing all over the place. It looks different every time. It just doesn't look comfortable for him either off the catch or even off the dribble.

I don't think he took many of those this year, but it doesn't look like... Well, it was a funny thing. I think on synergy to have that first percentile. Like, you don't see a first percentile score very often. I mean, like, literally everybody else in the country. country shot jumpers better. It's like Willie Colley Stein wants to shoot threes. And Robert Williams isn't going to be a guy who shoots threes in the NBA.

The chances of that are so slim. It's just insignificant. It's just not part of the equation. He's a rim-running five. It's going to be really funny. I remember when Willie Colley-Stine was going through draft workouts, and there was one video of him draining threes. And everyone just went nuts.

Everyone went nuts about it. I bet you, there's going to be one of those videos for Robert Williams this year. and we're all going to talk ourselves into it. He's going to be shooting like 75% in practice from the free throw line. Like, oh, he's improved his shot, baby. He's going to come back. Not going to be a hacker guy in the NBA level, but it's like, yeah, he's probably going to be somebody team's hack.

I would say with probably side, like Sacramento. I mean, I guess most guys you can tell us about, but if the Marvlin's with Sacramento, there's his career about it. I'm not going to happen. It's not always going to be like that for the Kings, though. They have some good players on that team. Dearon Fox is a culture changer.

Buddy Heald. he's been so damn good lately. That guy is such an unbelievable shooter. They have some good young talent on their team. At some point, Sacramento is not going to be a death sentence for some prospects. It's going to be a place maybe where some guys want to go at some point. I mean, maybe I'm on an island here, but I think they have some good players. You do.

You might be on an island. I'm not sure how much the city paid you for this. You also did a ladybird. It was an ad-reled last week. So you might be just fully in the tank. I did cry multiple times during Lady Bird. Very emotional movie. Very, very human movie.

It did make me have some stronger feelings towards the city of Sacramento, but it did not change my feelings towards the Kings, though. Bogdanovich? We didn't mention him. Kings have some good players, guys. Come on. Okay.

If I was an agent, I'm steering away from the Kings. Oh, me too. I would too. Well done. But it doesn't change the fact that They still have some good guys. With Robert Williams, getting back to him, one other thought, he's going to be, I think he's going to be a good room runner.

He's going to be a room protector. My question is, is that the type of five you want to build around? What I'm saying is, like, we have the DeAndre Jordans and the Clint Capellas of the world. You see the way a Capella operates in Houston. It's really perfect. Having the four shooters around him on the floor, he just sucks the defense in when he rolls down the lane. Whereas with DeAndre Jordan, I'm not sure I want to pay that guy. guy $20 plus million

dollars unless he's in a situation that more resembles Houston where they're shooting a ton of threes. So what I'm getting at is, is Robert Williams a type of guy where you're okay with him being a DJ type or are you willing to change your offense for a guy

like him? Is it team structure? Are you hoping to have more of a rocket-looking team charts? That's what I think with Williams. I feel like more teams are going to do the rocket structure. It feels like in five years, be like 10 teams like this. That'd be my...

And not just one. Like William. Yeah, I think like it's being so successful that... And teams are very coffee cat league, obviously. It seems to me like this is going to become more and more common, at least for the near future. So I think in a way, it makes William more valuable because I think the rocket model is going to be dumb model.

Right. And it's also that you don't have to necessarily pine for a guy like DeAndre Aden where you're like, oh my God, this guy has limitless potential. Yeah. With Robert Williams, you're going to basically develop him the way. way he should be developed. Like, it's a very limited but very important role. It's probably not as hard as trying to figure out what to do with eight, how to how to best

maximize his potential. I think that's the appeal if you're the team like the sons. You'll have a top three, top four pick in this year's draft. Maybe. And then you also have the 15th and 16th pick. And then you also have the 32nd, 33rd pick, wherever that lands. You have four picks in the top 35. So if you're Phoenix, you're thinking to yourself, well, hmm, maybe we could take.

a different guy with that top three, top four pick, and then maybe trade up a couple spots to assure that we get Robert Williams, or he just lands at that spot 15, 16, wherever it is. I think certainly there's appeal there for teams that have multiple first-round draft picks to not go big up top in a big man draft and get the big man in the middle of the draft based on the value, based on the situation, based on how they want to construct their roster. I've been using my Sonos Playbase and Sonos One system to get ready each morning for the ringer NBA.

show. I gotta get pumped up for draft class. So this morning I started listening to Jack White's new elm on the Sonos playbass. I can just use my voice to tell Sonos to play the Elm. And it works magically. Can listen to my Sonos while I'm getting my breakfast ready. Can listen while I'm brainstorming for this podcast. It's perfect. You can play your music, go from listening to the game, go to blasting your victory song. And unfortunately for Kentucky, that's what they weren't able to do last night, but it's because they probably weren't using Sonos. But if they're listeners of the Ringer NBA show, they are in luck, because Sonos is offering the listeners of the Ringer NBA podcast 10% off of one order of $2,500 or less for any product

on Sonos.com. Use the promo code of Ringer NBA 10. That's capital ringer NBA 1.0 at Sonos.com to receive this offer. This offer is available for limited time only and cannot be combined with other discounts or promotions. And now we're going to talk about Kentucky. And we're back. We're going to talk about last night's Kentucky game and some of the draft implications based on that. Kentucky lost 61 to 58 to Kansas State. And in that game, one of the guys that we had in the NBA draft guide, someone we talked about last week, Shagilded us to Alexander, it was a very, very rough game for him.

Two for ten from the field. Fifteen points got all his buckets from the free throw line, basically. Five assists, five turnovers. It was rough. Had a chance to tie the game. At the end, called an ISO 3 for Gilges Alexander and he clanked it off the side of the room. You think he was trying to bank that in? I was like, it looks just a bad shot. Like, was he banking that shot in? I don't understand what happened. I don't know, but

that's part of the concern. I think the fact is that Gilgis Alexander, the number one issue I have with him as a prospect is his shooting off the dribble. And I know, Charks, that you felt he may have been a little bit of a Michael Carter-Williams type last night. I mean, I just feel like the way his shots were missing,

it was like, how he's missing the bat. Like, I like SG out. I'm a big fan of his game. But that was the first time where I watched him out. I was like, if his shots off, it is way off. Like, those weren't even, when he was shooting those shots, those aren't going to go with. I kind of felt the point put out of the end.

I'm not sure anything changed for me, though, to be honest with you. I think those were concerns prior to the game that he's not going to, he, look, what he did against Buffalo, 27 points, two for three, that's not who he is as a guy. Gilgis Alexander is a versatile defender, a guy that you can hopefully stick on, you know, multiple positions, a guy who can facilitate for you. What you hope for is a turn to, to a solid score.

Right now he's not that. And he still is a long way to go. I thought that was apparent last night. But it was also apparent before the game in some ways. I think the touch is there. I think the free throw shooting, 11 for 12 last night. I still feel confident if he gets with the right shooting coach,

the right trainers that he can become a solid shooter, Danny. Yeah, that's my big thing there is he still kind of played to his strengths in the game. He had more free throw attempts than he did field goal attempts. Yeah. He's still going to be able to get to the line at will. And I think that's something that will translate in the NBA. considering how comfortable he is at changing speeds and stuff like that. I will say, so, like, with free throws, like, Dennis Smith this year,

reps don't give young guards to many tall. But that'll be tough for him, too, a little bit. If he goes to line and, like, that's little move where he goes to arms, like, you're a rookie. Like, sorry. Right. And he also doesn't have that explosive ability to, like. More shifting speeds.

Right. So, yeah, if he finds himself lost on a play, then he's a walking turnover. Do both of you guys still have him ranked the lottery? Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Same. Nothing would change for me.

The one guy I'm very disappointed we didn't get the sea in the tournament is Gilgis Alexander's teammate Jared Vanderbilt. He was out on the entire tournament with a foot injury. Yeah, I believe it was an ankle injury. Yeah, a lower body injury, as they would say in the NHL. No details. Lower body injury for Jared Vanderbilt. He's like a 6 foot 8, 6 foot 9 forward, but he's also kind of a point. Can handle the ball a little bit.

Vanderbilt's an interesting guy for the NBA if he decides to clear, Danny. I mean, yes. Wait, are we all in agreement that... I'm very disappointed. I thought that was like my take. I was like, yeah, I'm a stink of stupid-called take. You know, I'm... I'm so annoyed that we agree on this guy

because we have literally never discussed Jared Vanderbilt together. Right. Never. So it's not a hive mind thing. It's just, I think we're seeing the same qualities in a guy. Like, he reminds me a lot of Rondea Hollis Jefferson, just a guy who's... I can see it.

Swiss Army knife. But much bigger. Yeah, much bigger. Yeah, it's a jumbo. version. You look at kind of the way teams try to copy other teams in the draft, and you look at his measurements, and he's kind of eerily similar to Jordan Bell. They have very similar heights, very similar wingspans.

So you're looking at a guy who is going to be an unconventional four, maybe an unconventional five. The thing is Vanderbilt doesn't really have the rim protection potential that Jordan Bell exemplified in his three years at Oregon, but he brings so many different things to the table. might be the best defender in the drafts if he enters. Do you think he's going to go, though? I feel like he's probably not to come back to school after. He's only against the top 60.

Sure. Yeah, I think the odds are he'd come back. I think if you're an NBA team, you're looking at him. You're seeing he has had quite a handful of foot injuries in high school. He won't play 14 games this year. Miss three months with Kentucky this season. He's a horrible shooter. You're, he's not, he's really not just a horrible shooter.

He's also not a great finisher around the rim. Like, what he does, though, is he defends. like crazy and he rebounds at an elite level. His rebound rates credible for a six-nine guy. Like, they're better responding right than any of the big. Oh, he's relentless on defense. He's absolutely unbelievable as a defender. He can defend, look, it's not an exaggeration to say he can be a five-positioned

defender. Right. It's not an exaggeration to say that he's one of the guys that can be a really, really high-level rebounder for your team. That's important in small ball, too. If you're putting him at the five, you're seeing a six-foot-nine guy, and maybe in some situations you might be a little limited on the boards. You're not going to be limited with Vanderbilt out there.

And he's got that defensive rebound push for the... He's got some real... For sure. And that's where the Hollis-Jefferson comparison comes from, where, yes, he's like a jumbo version. Elite rebounder who can also push the floor, make the right plays, can pass a little bit in transition. He's such an intriguing guy.

I mean, it's kind of the role... The role that we're talking about right now is kind of the role that I kind of wish we saw more of from Michael Kid Gilchrist. I kind of want to see him as like a five. Like I had tweeted this a couple months ago. I was just like, I wouldn't it be kind of interesting if he was on the Cavs? Like playing the Tristan Thompson role? Like he's really strong, 6-7 can kind of do all those little things.

He just can't shoot. And it's like, I don't know. I would kind of rather see him be that kind of switchable guy than Tristan who just hasn't had that season. I was going to say, like this is a good example of like with five's general. it's like everyone's a five now so I feel like I guess with MKG it's like yeah let's see them up the five but they got Cody Zeller

and Minsky and Dwight Howard and that's kind of the whole league right now is like there's so many guys that have to be five with a non-shooting role and there's just too many of these non-shooting guys kind of hanging around there and I think in a few years

Kentucky the same way too Kentucky has like four guys like that or if they were the one non-shooter and shooting lineup would be very interesting but instead they're all playing together looks there I think with Vanderbilt though it's not like he's small.

Like, MKG's kind of lean. I think with him it might be a little difficult to put him at the five words with Vanderbilt. Like, he's thick. He's strong. MKG, I don't know if you could put him against a towns or an Embed. I think with Vanderbilt, maybe down the line once he reaches his full athletic potential, you could at least be solid with him against those guys. Here's my question.

Coach Cal is obviously a big proponent of students getting their money as as soon as possible. What do you think he does with Vanderbiltz? Bill. What do you think he says him? Do you think he says, all right, you only played 14 games here? You didn't, you know, finish your first season on the best terms. Do you come back or does he, is he like, no, go, you might be a first round pick? I think he should test the waters, at least, to be honest with you. I mean, like I said, if I'm an NBA team, I'm thinking, we can plug this guy in maybe pretty early on and he can make an impact defensively for us. That's what I'd be thinking if I were bringing him in. I'd have him ranked on the first round right now. That's just

me. I think I, on my, I haven't really done a solid board yet, but I have him like in the mid, late first round range right now for on mine. I'd be very happy drafting him in the late first round if I'm an NBA team. And if I'm Vanderbilt or if I'm coach Cal, I'm like, dude, go now. Right. Because a couple of years from now, like, people could sour on you a little bit. Plus those injuries. All the injuries as well. I think, I think, I think he should absolutely consider going, despite the fact the season didn't go is planned. I just feel like he could really improve on his finishing shooting. And I remember there was a good piece that our guy,

Paolo Esco blog, wrote a couple weeks ago where he talked to bunch of old Kentucky. And he was like, oh, you know, I love being in Kentucky. I love being in Kentucky. I went to pro, it didn't work out. And I'm being there. And it's like, yeah, get you money right away, but in my thing, like, you want to think long term with your career. Kentucky, he comes back, you can play a big minute.

He'll get a big role in the offense. And like, he'll get times to develop and grow. But if it goes to the wrong team in the NBA, you never play, it's forgotten. So to me, it's one. So to me, it's going to talk about that second contract. And if you don't make the NBA, if you have a higher scale level, when you go to Europe, you're a very consistent with there,

versus European teams don't want 20-year-olds you can't score. Like, he doesn't only have much time for it. Yeah, but if he goes back to Kentucky and continues having foot injuries, then he never gets paid. That's true, but, I mean, like, you're going to get second-round contract right now if people have been injuries. That's like a lot of life. For sure.

I mean, I'm just looking at Kentucky's recruits coming in next year. Yeah, they're all pretty. Yeah, they're all. perimeter guys. So you have, let's see, Kelden Johnson, who is a wing number six recruit. You have Tyler Harrow. You have, yeah, point guard. So, yeah, there's definitely a space for him next year. I am usually just on the side of get your money as quickly as possible. But it's an interesting case here just because he's such a unique prospect. I'm sad we can get to see him. And I'm also sad that we're out of time, which means. means. It's time for Isaac's grades. Hey, let's start with Danny today. Thanks for doing back-to-back weeks, first of all. Hell yeah. It's good to have you back on this program.

Again, this is your show, Danny. Do not ever forget that. And in the middle of talking about Mo Wagner, you corrected the pronunciation for Wagner, which is the correct pronunciation. You know I'm a stickler for phonetics. I appreciate that. I was going to give you an A for that,

but that would be unimaginative. So I'm going to give you a W. Break the system. Get a W for Wagner. Kevin O'Connor or Kevin O Superstar, you stood up for the Sacramento Kings? That's a very brave take. I think that's an incredible hill to die on. But then you suggested that the Sun should take Robert Williams,

forgetting the fact that the Suns have like 7,000 big men on their roster already, so you get a B for Big Men. Cool. I'm cool with that. B's a passing grade. Jonathan Charks, great comp rush for Trey Young. I think those four guys are all adequate comparisons. but you compared Shay Gilgius Alexander to

MCW you can't just compare two guys because they have hyphenated last names, man that's just really lazy You get a B-hyphen A, A B-minus Oh, God I can't even be mad with those dolls

at tongue. You can get me that great doing on it. Wow. I'm about to drop your grade for mentioning that again. Well, I can't help it. Yeah, he tried to butter you up, Isaac. It's not working. Oh, God, Isaac.

We're going to keep running off offense to our man, Isaac. We're going to get him a thing on this podcast for you. Yeah. People need to hear your voice, Isaac. I don't think that's magical. Well, that was fun, guys. Charks, thanks for calling in from Dallas, man.

All right, y'all. Have a good one. Here in L.A., Danny, Isaac, thank you guys. Always a pleasure. Always a pleasure, indeed. And thank you for listening. For extra credit, please check out the Ringers' 2018 NBA draft guide at NBA draft.com.

Links and Twitter. It's posted on Ringers' Facebook page. You'll find it. It's good stuff. we'll be adding more in the coming weeks. Special thanks to Elon Musk for considering joining the show. It's too busy, not able to this Friday. Hopefully we'll get him next Friday.

Need to get Elon on the show. Hey, special shout out to Mo Wagner. Yeah, special shout out to Mo Wagner as well. Number one fan of the Ringer NBA show, number one prospect of my big board. Looking forward to seeing Wagner this Saturday against Texas A&M. For now, please keep submitting hashtag Ringer NBA comments and questions during March Madness.

Our next mailbag will be the first week of April. Talk to you next Friday. out.