The Ringer NBA Show - Trae Young Drops 50 on His First Night Back. Plus: Embiid Says He’s the Best Player in the World. | The Mismatch

Episode Date: February 21, 2020

We go over some highlights of the first night the NBA returned to action, including Trae Young's and Joel Embiid’s big games against the Miami Heat and Brooklyn Nets, respectively (1:27). Then we try to make sense of the Western Conference playoff race and predict who will grab the eighth seed out of Memphis, Portland, and New Orleans (25:39). Host: Chris Vernon Guest: Jonathan Tjarks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly and welcome to the Ringer podcast network. We've updated our 2020 NFL draft guide this week, where you can find all things draft related leading up to the first round on April 23rd, including scouting reports on each prospect by Danny Kelly and much more. Also, don't forget to check out the Ringer NFL show and the Dannessie Football podcast live from the Combine next week for an inside look at this year's top draft picks. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon.

joining me this Friday is Jonathan Charch from the ringer.com. Quick little update. We hope to be rejoined by Kevin next week. And for all of you, the sent prayers up and thoughts for Kevin O'Connor and his mother, he greatly appreciates that, as this has been a very tough week for them. But hopefully we can get back going next week.

Charks, I am certainly appreciative of you joining me this morning. Thanks, brother. Hey, I'm honored to be on. This is a, y'all have a great show. I'm glad to be a part of it for a week. had the NBA again last night. After we got done with the All-Star break, there were games last night, and there were a bunch of things that happened last night, not the least of which was Trey Young's 50 points coming out of the All-Star break. Sometimes there can be a All-Star

Hangover, especially for those that are very involved in the All-Star break. And Lord knows, Trey Young was playing a lot of basketball. He was in the three-point contest. He was in the Rising Stars contest. He was in the actual All-Star game, but there was no hangover for Trey Young because he came out and had a career high last night, 50 points against the Miami Heat. And we're to the point now, charts, where all of these games do matter greatly because you're going to look back at the end of the year if you're Miami and you're going to go, geez, we could be the three seed and have avoided Milwaukee if we wouldn't have lost that game against the Hawks coming out of the year. All-Star break or whatever it may be. Like the games that are the ones that you have marked down as you should win, those are the ones that are going to sting the most at the end of the year that you didn't.

But they tried everything. They tried switching on Trey Young. They tried everything. And this dude was just pulling from the logo last night. He was absolutely incredible. And did the heat in in a game that, again, later down the road, they might regret losing. Yeah. So I'm looking at the standard.

They're a half game above Philadelphia for that four seed. And you want home court against Philadelphia. They have like the craziest home road split in the league. I think they've lost twice all season at home. So you really can't afford to let them jump you in the standings. I wonder what Trey, maybe it's just his confidence. He's been gone all week playing with the best players in the world. He's like, you know what?

I'm on this level. I'm as good as these guys. Let me go back here, play with my other teammates. I'm just some dominate because I'm like on this level of an elite player now. How about this one? And you know what? And shouts to Cam Reddish, who we had not heard his name much this year, but came up with some monster plays down the stretch for him.

His rookie season has been a struggle, but certainly showed some real potential last night, especially defensively. Last night, with Tray Young scoring 50 points, I believe he became the fourth youngest guy to do it. You want to try to guess who was the youngest player ever to score? 50 points. If you get this, I'll give you 100 bucks. Unless you've seen it. It's not someone obvious. Unless you've seen it. Okay, so it's someone I wouldn't expect.

Yes. 18. So that means, oh, no, I guess Trace 20 now. So probably a rookie. This guy was 20 years old. And 52 days. And give me a time frame. Just give me a time frame, at least. Like 2009. I'll tell you the year. Oh, Brandon Jennings. I'm about to get $100. Does it just happen? Pretty good.

I remember that was a 55 point game. That was like the game that put him on the map. Yeah, I remember that exactly. You're going to have to give me your Venmo. Brandy, Hey, what's up, man? $100. I don't know if I should give it to you after telling you the year, but

fair's fair. How about you give me 50 bucks? LeBron James, Devin Booker, Trey Young. That's it. That's the list. Those are the guys that were younger than Trey Young's 50 last. night, Brandon Jennings, LeBron, and Devin Booker. Hey, that's some great company.

Unbelievable. I think for Atlanta, that game was really proof of concept. And that, like, because they closed the game with their five young guys. So they had Trey at Point, Herder, Reddish, Hunter on the wings, and then Collins at five. And that's the lineup they're kind of banking on. And that's what I'm curious to see going forward the season when Capella comes is how much they really going to go with Capella and Collins versus Collins is the only big. man because I feel like their whole plan all the whole long was to play smaller and they've kind of gone away from that now. Well, and you do wonder is are we going to see promise at the end of this

year? Because the truth is, especially the second half where Trey was just a supernova in the second half of his rookie year, I think, you know, a lot of us thought that there was promised for Atlanta this year. And that has just, it starts off terribly with the Collins suspension where they lose him and they could just not afford to lose him. They made errors in judgment as their Travis Slink has come out and said. He put the wrong kind of veterans in that locker room. They didn't pay enough attention to voices in the locker room and that with a young team, it is very important who you surround them by.

And so that was a mistake. But they just have not, you know, when they showed some promise last year and maybe that were on to something and that progression has not happened this year. And so for their sake, you hope that the last 25 games, like you were saying, you close with the five young guys. That's a really good win against Miami. You know everybody is going to take them lightly. You know that when you are the team with the worst record, the teams are going to come in

there and just expect to roll the ball out and it's going to be a win. And so we'll see how many teams they can catch like that the rest of the year. More importantly, if you're an Atlanta fan, you're just hoping that the team shows promise that next year it can take possibly a major step because you're already into year three of Trey by next year year and year four of Collins next year, right? Yeah, I mean, it's simple stuff like what you were saying,

like having Jeff Teague as your backup point guard. I mean, I think he played like 30 minutes last night. Yes. And I don't know how many more teams would really want Jeff Teague. So maybe you bring him back next turn. You have two quality. point cards for the whole game. Sure. No. And it's just having guys like Jeff Teague that have won something

and could be a good influence in the locker room. Like that is, that's one of those things that you cannot show, that it does not show up on paper. And yet it matters greatly. Greatly. I mean, look, I have been around a team all season that was a very young team. But I will tell you that guys like Solomon Hill and guys like Jay Crowder and guys like Kyle Anderson and guys like Balanchunis, like that's the reason that the Grizzlies have overperformed this year.

Well, speaking about that, does that worry? Those guys are gone now, that they're playing in Miami? No, no, not as much now because the standard was like set by them and they still have guys that were veterans like Tyos Jones who plays minutes.

Kyle Anderson is in the starting lineup, Balantunis. Like, you just have to have guys, Like once your culture is somewhat set, then it's okay that guys, you know, have moved on. I believe that. But those guys have a massive impact because, look, they end up having the most important voice in the locker room because that's who young guys look up to. And so if your veterans come in and they say, this guy is a bozo, this guy doesn't know what he's doing, this isn't the way it works in the NBA. Guess what? All those young guys believe that.

Look at what just happened in Cleveland, Charks. It's the perfect example. You've got young guys on that team, and all it took was a couple of veterans turning on that coach quickly, and it was, I mean, it was hell from the very beginning. If those guys, and that's B-Line's fault, you know what I mean? You've got to understand who to get on your side in a locker room, but I promise you when young guys are on the team,

they listen to what those veterans have to say. And if those veterans say, this coach don't know what he's doing or this guy's a bozo or this ain't the way it's supposed to be, they then listen and it causes revolt. If they say this guy knows what he's doing, this guy's really smart, just stay the course,

whatever it may be, then they will fall in line. But, I mean, I juxtapose those two situations. it's, I mean, in Cleveland, we just saw it. We just saw it. Those veterans turned on him. You know, somebody like Darius Garland, he don't know any better.

And Colin Sexton, you know, he doesn't want to lose every single night, which is what he did his rookie year. And so those guys, they don't know. But the guys like Tristan Thompson, the guys like Kevin Love, the guy, you know, those guys on that team, you could tell. They turned on B-line quick. And it was a disaster. Yeah, I mean, it's setting good habits too, right? It's like coming in early, eating well. I also veterans always say, I remember talking to Solomon Hill

pre-seats when I was in Memphis. He was like, I'm always telling guys to eat well. He had his own chef. Like stuff like that young guys aren't going to think about, but it's so important for a long season. That's right. And it's lessons that they end up, you know, keeping for the rest of their careers.

They end up thinking about that as they become veterans one day. It's funny you mentioned that, Chris. So when Jay Crowder was in Dallas, I remember Vince saying that. So when Jay was starting in Dallas, Vince was his veteran. And Vince was like, you got to pay it forward. Like, I'm going to teach you these things. I'm going to give you my experience.

Then at one point, you flip it and you're the old guy. You've got to be the experience one. You've got to teach those things. That's right. It's just like putting a kid in a good school versus a bad school. It really is the NBA sometimes. And it's like, what do you expect? You know, I could take the same kid.

And if I put him in this very, very positive environment with great teachers, and I say that to like, look how many guys have walked into different situations, whether like San Antonio or now Milwaukee's done very good at developing their young players or Miami done very good at developing their young players over time. Or you can say, hey, this guy gets drafted to Sacramento or this guy gets drafted to Phoenix or this guy got drafted to Cleveland this year. And it's the same as if you put a kid in a great school with everything set up, for his success versus a kid in some terrible school that's got, you know, teachers that don't

care or substitute teachers that are always worried about their job and kids that are older kids that act bad all the time. And it's, it's not different. They are all, they're sponges and they are learning behaviors, you know, very early. And it can really determine, you know, their success or failure throughout their career. It's like your son, right? You know, the elite quarterback at a young age. Let us hope. Joel M. B. called himself the best player in the world last night. I flip on this game and I flip it on in the middle of what was an 18 or 20 point run by Brooklyn.

And I'm thinking to myself, oh, my goodness, this is incredible. And then they flash over and they show Ben Simmons on the sideline. And I'm like, well, I know Ben Simmons is on the sideline, but still, like, what is happening here? Brett Brown calls a timeout. They get it to like 10 or 8 by half time. Like you could tell they called the time out after another layup was made. And he's like, all right, no more of this. Horford was just an absolute debacle all night.

I mean, they won that game. I think he ended up like minus 26 or something for the game. And sometimes single game plus minus is not relevant. Other times you watch the game and you're like, oh my God, they're getting smoked with this guy out there. Like this is, and it matched up. If you thought they were awful with Horford on the floor, that number matched up to where they were super awful with Horford on the floor.

But Embed took over. They treated him like he was the best player on the floor. And then he ends up dominating against the nets. And then, you know, every once in a while we get this, I know I need to dominate. I just played in the All-Star game. And, you know, he had that big like dream shake type. move down the stretch where he showed a lot of confidence with the game on the line,

making a play. And so he's really feeling himself and talking about how he needs to be aggressive and he needs to do these duckins and he knows he can score on anyone and that he's the best player in the world. And this all leads up to another showdown with Janus this weekend where Janus and them busted them up once. But then the second time, Philly got the best of them. And so now we've got Embed showing a lot of confidence. I'm the best player in the world. What do you make of it,

Charks? You know, if you ever need someone to dunk on like Hassan Whiteside or Andre Drummond, like, Joel's your guy for sure. Like, he is such a bully. Like, if he's like, he's playing what Jared Allen and the Andre Jordan, like, Joel is the guy who's going to crush bad players and he just loves to talk

trash. It's like, let's do it against the guys who can play, man. Like, you know, it's really nice you can like humiliate Hassan White's side. We're all very impressed. But let's do it against real competition. I will say this. So the number,

I was looking at the numbers on it. You want to guess what the net rating for the sixers is when Joel plays without Al Horford and Ben Simmons? It's kind of amazing. The net rating. Okay. So when he is. With Joel, no Ben, no Horford.

I'll say plus five. Plus 16. Holy mackle. That's what any other. That's with any other four guys? Any other four? I mean, pretty much any other four is going to be able to shoot threes in that team. So at the end of that game against Brooklyn, they were playing Harris, Richardson,

Alec Burks, who looked pretty good in that one. I've always looked Alec Burks. And then my guy, Shake Milton from SMU. That's four shooters. The floor is spread from me to do his thing. Yeah, I had a guy last night tweet me about Alec Berks because I, you know, I rolled my eyes at their trade deadline. I was like, come on.

Like, you got to do more than, like, Alec Burks. You got a chance at winning a title here and all you did was Alec Berks and Glenn Robinson the third. Like,

you got to do more than that. I was disappointed and then Alex Berks, of course, wins him a game last night and overtime. He's got talent. I mean,

he was always in a bad situation. He's definitely got some talent. He's a talented guy. I'm talking about when it gets, when it gets hard and everything starts to, everything starts to collapse

when it comes playoff time and you really need people to be able to stretch the floor and make a play. Like maybe Alckberg's is a guy that's going to be playing, you know, big minutes and big games. But that's not good enough. Okay.

I guess this probably says more about them, but he's easily their best pick and roll guard by like a mile on that roster. It says more about them. Yeah, that's probably true. All right. What do we make of Horford being such a mess for them? He was kind of slowing down last year, too. I remember looking at the numbers for Boston

and I felt like in the regular season especially he's put a lot of miles on his body and he's a smaller big man I think he's 34 now and you do wonder like he's spent a lot of years banging against guys like Joelle and maybe it's catching up to him so you don't think that it is situation

you think it is he has taken a step back because and this always kind of this always kind of scares me the conversation because there was that conversation last year I remember it being a big thing where people were like, it's clear, you know, Chris Paul can't beat people off the dribble anymore. And Chris Paul is, you know, he's really taking a step back and it happens fast or whatever.

Chris Paul is like one of the best few guards in the league this season and is the best clutch performer, you know, when you watch their games. Like you don't want to be in a, you don't want to be in a one point game with Oklahoma City with three minutes left to go. Because this guy is like taking over games. and it's like, okay, did we overreact to how much he took a step back simply because he's playing on a team, you know, with James Hardin and now we're kind of seeing the old Chris Paul. And I say that to say, do we look back, are we going to look back and say, hey, Horford still had it.

It's just it ain't a great spot for him being on a team with Simmons and Embed. And it's just not a great fit. And he's still got good basketball and winning basketball in him. This just ain't the great situation. for him. I don't know. I mean, it's definitely not a great spot for him. And I think like maybe he could still pull it out in the playoffs and he's kind of resting himself. But I think at this point, you can say he's not good enough to overcome the situation. Like, I just cannot see a Horford and Bid lineup really working against the Milwaukee or a Boston later in the play. I just seem very hard to believe at this point.

You know, the other thing, they are booing the hell out of him. And what? I mean, he's in Philly. He makes a lot of money. So I understand. Wouldn't you say, got to be the first time in his life. Seriously. It's going to be the first time in his life that people don't love him or that he's getting booed. I mean,

they were never fans to Atlanta to begin with, so there's no one to boo him there. He was a fan favorite in Boston. So yeah, you're probably right. They had fans their 60 win year. Come on.

Come on. But, I mean, he was a beloved figure in Atlanta. And certainly they loved him in Boston when he was playing for them. This is the first time that, you know, This probably ain't that fun.

Who wants to, who wants to, when they pass the ball to you, everybody starts going, boo. I mean, that sucks. That's the worst. Yeah. You know what I mean? Everything. You do wonder.

Maybe so. All right, let's talk about the team on the other side that blew that game last night, which was the Brooklyn Nets, who we find out that they are going to be without Kyrie for the rest of the season. There's always been that argument throughout the year. Are they actually better without Kyrie? Irving. You told me you had some numbers on this regarding Brooklyn, who, I mean, who knows what's

going to happen with them, but they desperately are going to be needing to hang on to their playoff seed. It appears that, you know, everybody behind them is so bad. I mean, I was looking the other day, even with this many games left, that they had like a 99.9% chance according to BPI or whatever it was. of making the playoffs. So I don't know if they're particularly in danger of not making the playoffs, simply because there's so many crap teams behind them.

But what do they look like the rest of the way without Kyrie Irving? Okay, so the numbers I found, and my suspicion was that it wasn't just about Kyrie. I think it's like this problem of having too many ball handlers. So they got Kyrie, Spencer Dinwiddie, Karris, LaVe, and Kyrie and Lavert have been in our to line at this season. But looking at the number, so when you go Dinwiddie plus Lavert, no Kyrie, they're plus 11. Kyrie plus Dinwiddie, no Lavert. They're plus nine.

But all three together, they're minus one. And it just kind of feels like with the way the team is constructed, you want to have two ball handlers, two shooters, one role man. So I think like in a way, I wouldn't say Kyrie is like necessarily making them worse. But I think not having them there, it simplifies the game for you. everybody else. Because everybody else falls into a role

pretty easily from there. So you have Dinwiddie Levert, you have Harris, Prince, Temple. Then you have at the center Alan Jordan. So I think they're not

going to be great. I wouldn't say Hyrie, they're better without them. But I think the way this team is put together, they should be okay going forward to make

the playoffs at the very least. Well, and what we very well may see is, you know, this is the time for Levert and Dinwiddie. Right?

The rest of the, the way. Because that's going to be their guy now. That's going to be, and that's going to be the guys. Then that's going to be your time to shine. What do you look like when, because they are going to be counting on those guys every night. Those guys have to perform. I mean, for goodness sakes, Lavert, who, look, the number is not, he ends up with 25, but he's nine for 29 last night. I mean, in what world is, is Karris Levert typically taking 29 shots in a game? I mean, that is a monstrous number. And, you know, the rest of those guys, they're going to be chipping in.

You're going to get, you know, it's not, you're going to get a couple from Prince. You're going to get, you know, every once or a while get a really good Joe Harris night. You know, if you're bigger than them, then maybe Jared Allen or DeAndre Jordan can have some numbers some night. But, I mean, look, if they're going to be, most nights, you've got to be able to score 110. And if they're doing that, that's going to be because they are getting big production out of Dinwiddie and Lever. I think my question is going to be for them going forward, thinking about next season. Like, do they think about moving Levert in the offseason if he can play better? Because he's not really an offball guy.

He's kind of an average shooter. Maybe he needs to have a bigger role on a different team. So maybe this is kind of like an audition for him to get a bigger role somewhere else. And they can lean for a guy who fits better with Kyrie and KD. One, especially, you know, you're thinking about the way it all fits with those guys. And how much are you paying Joe Harris? Who's restricted, you know? I think they have to keep them.

I think they've already said they'll be a luxury tax team. Yeah, I know. I'm saying, I'm saying what's the price on Joe Harris? You know what I mean? Do you get in a situation where one of these teams, and I know there's not that many with Cap Room, but, and it's not good teams with them,

like the Charlottes and the Atlanta's and these kind of teams, does somebody out there throw him a crazy contract? He feels like the kind of guy that somebody would throw a crazy contract to, doesn't he? Yeah, because he can make, any team better. And the problem with Joe Harris is, like, defense. But if you're a bad team, who cares? You just want guys who can space the floor for your young players.

That's right. But a 6-6 wing that can shoot the hell out of the ball? Everybody wants that. Yeah, and it's not just shooting. It's like moving off the ball. That creates the real space because you can run it off screens and shoot. And that can commit two defenders to him, not just one. It doesn't it feel like he's the kind of guy that could, like, the offer,

somebody signs him to an offer sheet. And it's like, and you're, and we're sitting. they're having the conversation like, oh my God, are they going to match that? Like the, like, almost like the Allen Crab one once upon a time. Oh, so that, that is kind of funny. So now the roles have reversed

and now they're the team getting hit up by these crazy contracts. Maybe that's interesting. Well, because you remember that, right? Like the Allen Crabb one. Everybody wanted a 6-6 wing that could shoot. Obviously, that was a debacle. But Alan Crabbs' contract is insane.

Well, I mean, the Nets like sunk three teams doing that. Remember, they paid auto-point. order a crazy contract, Tyler Johnson a crazy contract, and Alan Krabb. And all those teams matched and regretted it. So that is interesting.

I thought about that. Did Tyler Johnson get picked up? Did he get let go by the Suns? Honestly, I have lost track. No, he just got let go. Like, it fell by the wayside. It was just like a random note like maybe a week and a half ago.

And I saw it come across and it was like, they have released Tyler Johnson. It was post trade deadline. And I was like, Google news, it says, who was expected to draw interest, but that's the last report two weeks ago. So maybe he hasn't. I don't know. That's crazy. He's 27 years old. I mean, he does get, his contract was $19 million. Holy mackerel. You know what I mean? I mean, and he was having

a dismal year. I mean, 38% from the field, 29% from three. But I mean, that, it's just shocking. Like, who was the other one you said? It was Alan Crave, Tyler Johnson, and who? Oh, Porter. He gave him that $100 million contract. Oh, God. All disasters. Regarding the contract. Yeah.

Right? Oh, my goodness. All right, let's get to the other stuff. The eighth seed in the West, while I said that there was over 90-something percent chance, according to all of those odds, that we pretty well have the eight teams in the east,

that the last two are going to be Brooklyn and Orlando, according to all of these different forms. formulas. The West is one that is totally up in the air. There are some projections. Of course. I don't know. I think,

you know, look, just for point of reference, the Grizzies have been the great story in the NBA this year with the eight seed, but they have 28 games, 27 after last night. They're probably going to be favored,

like Vegas favored in like four or five of them, of the last 27 games. Shoot. I don't know if it was that drastic. Oh, yeah. That's their schedule. And obviously last night, losing to the Kings goes, that's much like I said with the heat, you're going to regret losing that game because you don't have any easy ones, right?

They turn around. They play and you've got big ones tonight regarding this eight seed, which is really going to come down to the wire because the Grizzlies play at the Lakers, the Blazers and the Pelicans. This is one that will go a long way. I know they don't have Damian Liller, but this is going to go a long way towards those standings. There are some of the projections that have the Blazers.

There's some that have the spurs. There's some that have the pelicans. Yeah, Chris, I'm looking at the schedule. Next three for the Grizzlies, at Lakers, at Clippers, at Rockets. Right. Could be a four-game losing streak, for sure. I mean, most teams would lose those four games. So they're going to have to win one that they're not supposed to win.

As an underdog, for sure. But Blazers' Pelicans, one of those teams takes a loss tonight. And so you're either going to look up in the morning and the pelicans are that much closer and they've tracked and they're and they're tracking down the Blazers or, you know, look, like we were talking about last week, you know, if the Pelicans lose tonight, it's another game behind that they are separated from the Blazers. Yes, Damien Lillard is out. So they got it on that one that if without Dame there. That's the most one.

No, right. And they, I mean, they're favorite to win that game tonight. But yes, that's the kind of game they really need to win. The Pelicans have the easiest schedule the rest of the way I think I read. Really? Yeah, because I was stunned that 538 blog, you know, they have all their numbers. And one of their numbers had the, I mean, they have been bullish on the Pelicans and have them as like, earlier this week had them over a 50% chance of making the playoffs. It makes sense because they stack the schedule,

get them on TV as start of the season because they're trying to go on on Zion. So it makes sense it evens up at the end. That's really interesting. Yeah, but I mean, you're talking about them getting to, I mean, the question is, how many wins is it going to take to be the eighth seed in the West?

Is it 500? I mean, because if it's 500, the Pelicans would need to go 18 and 9 in the last 27 games. Here's what I'm thinking, though. So I'm looking at Zion's game log. So they played Portland. Portland, right before All-Star.

He had 31, 9, and 5 on 17 shots. I mean, when you have a guy who can do that kind of thing, take over a game, like, how good is Zion right now? Like, where would you rank him? Just say, forget about track records, terms of production today in the least. He had top 25 player already, top 10, 15? Oh, if you lined them up all on, if you lined every, if you lined everybody up in the NBA and put on a one.

Guys, yeah. It picked him. I would not get to, there's no way I'd get to 20. No way. No way. When he's playing right now? Yeah. When you have a guy like that,

if you can just takeover games, you've always got a chance because anybody. If he's playing more minutes now. The other thing is he's only going to get better. This is the first 10 games of his frigging career. Yeah, I'm working on a big Zion story for next week. I got some,

there are two players in NBA history who, for rookie seasons, have shot average more than 20 points per game on more than 55% shooting. One is Zion. You know what the other one? You know what the other one is? Wait, what's the number repeated to me?

Okay, so more than 20 points a game, higher than 55% shooting as a rookie. I don't think, Duncan didn't average 20, so you got to average 20. I mean, you'd imagine it's a big guy to get the 55%. Yeah. What era are we talking about? Early 90s.

Early 90s? A rookie big man in the early to late 90s. there's people that are screaming at their iPhones right now. I'm screaming Shaq. Yeah. Yeah. Shaq. Shaq.

It's the same kind of thing. When you're bigger and faster than everyone, it doesn't matter how young you are. You're just dunk on people. My God. Shaquille O'Neal. Sixth or Shaq, baby. Yeah, it was just, it's Shaq and Zion, the only two.

That's incredible. I mean, yeah, I probably don't get to, I mean, if we're just lining them up on a. wall and saying pick this guy and i'm not trying to you know i and i'm not trying to you know blow him up too much but if i'm it's fair is fair and we're like picking our team and i got to go win like i just feel like there's nobody's like him i think he does man like there are other guys there are other guys that you feel like can duplicate right what a lot of other guys do.

I mean, no disrespect, but I mean, what is the, if I take Jason Tatum and you take Jimmy Butler, right? You feel like, okay, like those guys can match up with each other, right? Same kind of players, right? Yeah, same kind of. Those guys can match up with each other.

But if I take Zion, you're like, well, who the hell do I take to match up with that? You know what I mean? Basically, in his first 11 games, the only guy who's name of the garden was Janus. he's pretty much scored to everybody else every single time. Like, Yannis is the one guy with the size and frame. I watched that game and it was like, okay, this guy can jump his eye on,

he can stay in front of him, he can cover up his shot. Everybody else, forget about it. I'm bigger and stronger than you. I'm faster than more opposed than you. I'm getting to the rim. Okay, so let me ask you, the number. Do you think you'll have to be 500 to get the eighth seat in the Western Conference? Or will it be a team with technically a losing record?

So right now Memphis is only a game above 500. So already 500 is right there. And you're saying they have a tough schedule. And everybody else is way below 500. Geez, the Pelicans are nine games under 500. Portland's 6. San Antonio's 8. Yeah, I think if Memphis is a tough schedule, then 500 should be enough.

Yeah. I think 500 gets you there. This could be fun. This could be really fun. No, I mean, it's obviously going to go down to the wire. It will go down to the line. last game, guarantee, because there's only going to be a few, there's only going to be a few games separating all of these teams. We touched on the B-line resignation a little bit earlier.

I don't like all these stories being leaked out afterwards, you know, like, it's like you bury the guy. It's like, oh, he wanted to practice on Christmas Day, and the players were playing, you know, you know, songs with. thug in the title around him all the time. And it just, I don't know what good it does to bury the guy. It's the oldest story in the book. Did you see what I, in Golden State with the Angelo after they traded him? There's like four stories just crushing them.

Yeah. No. And that's the way. Didn't try on defense, blah, blah, blah. Well, and Barclay trashed the calves last night for. Oh, he did. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Barkley went out of his way to trash them. And he said, you know, if I was John B-line, I would have walked in there and said, you know, I'm out of here. You guys are a bunch of losers. You know, I mean, because people, people don't want to hear about how it's the coach, you know what I mean, like how hard the coach was on you when you suck. You know what I mean? Yeah. Now, look, John Beeline is at fault. He didn't handle it well. He didn't, you know, his, his moving over from being a college coach to an NBA coach did not go well. There's no way around that.

But, I mean, it's also, you know, the veterans obviously turned on the guy immediately. And, you know, if the whole idea is, hey, make the best of this, we're professionals and we're trying to win basketball games, I mean, even from training camp, you had already started to see stories leak out and been very early in the season. You saw stories leaking out. I mean, they sabotaged the thing from the very start. And the whole organization, as we chronicled a few days ago, look, they got, it's six coaches in seven years, four of which were years they made it to the NBA finals. I mean, that is the beacon of instability.

I will say selfishly, as a Texas basketball fan, I'm kind of excited. So there's a lot of rumors flannel right now because B-Line's old defensive coordinator at Michigan is one of our assistants. And it sounds like Shaka's going to lose his job. And we'll take him in Austin, man. Come on down, John. Get this show on the road again. Yeah, I feel like, I feel like Shaka is, I feel like this obviously has not worked for him at Texas. But I think there's going to be a big Shaka revival.

Okay. Do you want to talk about that? I can tell you what happened with Shaka. It was kind of unfortunate. It's the same, like the same way it's happening with Anthony Grant, right? Anthony Grant's now got this Dayton team that's, what, the top five in the country? They'll be topping, killing it.

Well, and it worked out horribly at Alabama for Anthony, right? Well, yeah, well, the thing with Shaka was, so he's at VCU. He's running a full court press havoc. That's like his whole system, it's his whole identity as a coach. He comes to Texas and he thinks, okay, well, now I'm recruiting these big seven footers.

So he went Jared Allen, Mo Bamba, and then who was someone else? And then Jackson Hayes, three straight, years. So he's like, I've got to feature these guys. I've got to slow it down. And he kind of changed to he was as a coach. And it just didn't work. Like he wasn't really prepared to run a more traditional system. The other right. Right. No, I think there is those kind of guys that win because in large part because of their style of play, that there's sometimes where actually having a bunch of three star kids that will run

through a wall is actually best suited for them. And I say that because it's exactly what happened with Mike Anderson. Another guy that did like the 40 minutes of hell. I mean, there are two guys that I thought would have been successful anywhere they went. But Mike Anderson won like hell at UAB. He ended up winning at Missouri and getting them a number one seed in the NCAA tournament. Yeah, I remember that. And then it went horribly at Arkansas for Mike Anderson.

You know, and didn't win there. And now he's at St. John's or something like that. Yeah, but I mean, you see these guys. They had a bunch of like three star scrappers, both of them. At VCU, obviously the Anderson teams at UAB and then even at Missouri. I mean, you're talking about like a few guys that ever made the league. Like Troy Daniels from VCU, Priante Weber got a cup of coffee. I know DiMari Carroll, you know, from Missouri.

Missouri team, Pressy. There's a couple of them. Yeah. I mean, there's only a couple of them. but I will say that it will end up he'll go somewhere and he'll go to like another lower one but I think when those guys get when you're at the huge schools

you're right you have to get in the mode of you have to go and get the five star kids your fan base a lot of extra stuff yes your fan base cares about recruiting and you don't get you don't get to keep those kids for three and four years like you do it UAB and Missouri and VCU you know, you got them for one year.

And you got a feature of it. Oh, it is hard. It is hard. It is hard. You got to have. Look at Memphis. Look at this year in Memphis. That's right.

It can go bad so fast. It's hard. It is hard to pull that off. That's why John Cal Perry's only one one. You know? I think Coach K has a one in the one done era since he's gone to these. No, he won one. Yes, he has.

Jaliel and Tyos Jones. He won one. Yeah, he won that. Anyways, all right. So you're thinking B-line might end up back. at Texas. I've heard some rumors. I've heard some whispers about it. That'd be interesting. I mean, look, people didn't think he was going to

win at Michigan. He ended up playing for national titles with them. A couple other things before we get out of here. Injury news. Charx, I was a huge Bagley fan. And this has just been a nightmare first two seasons. Because it's announced yesterday he's going to

be re-evaluated in another three weeks. I mean, he has played so few games his first two seasons. You And it's been weird ones. Like earlier it was a wrist, but obviously you worry about this is another foot thing. And you always worry about feet with big guys. But I was a huge fan.

I still think he can be a great player, like all-star caliber player in the NBA. In the time that he has played, he's been good, you know? And but he just, he has not been able to stay on the court at all. It obviously is a killer. that both Luca and Tray Young have turned out to be all-stars by their second. Yeah, and Jaron Jackson. They turned out to be all-stars in their second year in the league. But here he is again, and he's out for three more weeks and then going to get re-evaluated.

You think he comes back at all this year? I mean, at this point, why risk it? I mean, it's just a lost season. You know, he played 13 games this year. starts six the whole season. And last year, he missed a inordinate amount of time also as a rookie. And so he's going to be going into year three with what, less than maybe 20 starts. Because remember, that was a big thing last year with Yeager getting in a fight with them over, you know, starting Bialitsa last year instead of Bagley. might have very well done in Yeager as the coach there.

I think the hard thing too for Sacramento is like they don't know what he's going to be yet. Like are you going to play him as a four? Are you going to play him as a five? Because that affects every other move you make. I think that's what really kills the king because it's the uncertainty about how to build this team going forward. If he doesn't come back, he will have started, he started four games his rookie year and appeared in 62. And then he started six years. He will go into his third season with 10 starts as an.

NBA player. That's insane. Ooh, man. Not what anybody would have expected. And as someone like me that was very, very high on the guy, I still have my bagley stock, but I freely admit. And it's not because he sucks. It's because he's injured. It's been a nightmare

for two straight seasons. Clay, we're not getting Clay Thompson back this year. Yeah, no surprise there. No surprise. How about cousins hoping to be back for the playoffs? That does, I mean, if the Lakers throw cousins in the mix, my goodness, are they throwing size at you?

I mean, he's theoretically helpful, but can they afford to bring him along in the middle of the playoffs? That's a big ask. He hasn't barely played in three years. Right. And well, I mean, he appeared. He did. Look, he showed up out of nowhere in the playoffs for the Golden State.

He had the one good finals game. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. And so, I mean, do you have the one cousin's night where he actually does come in off the bench and, you know, he's just catching elbow jumpers and then pounding some little dude down in the paint. See, I would say with cousins, the idea would be he could space the floor for Davis because the rest of their bigs, the rest of their bigs can't space for him.

So I think he gives that elements the team they don't have right now. And then two others, it looks like, I mean, Damien Lillard's out. We'll have to pay attention to how long he is out, because that will certainly affect the eight seed in the Western Conference. as I said, they're playing against the Pelicans tonight in a huge game. And then the other one is Carl Anthony Towns. That's a weird one. Yeah, if you were hoping to get a long look at kind of what it's going to look like

with Russell and Towns, you know, to go along with Culver and the others that they've got and trying to figure out, much like Atlanta, you know, what do these last 25 games, do they show us that there is real promise for next season or not? like we're not even going to get to see it nearly as much as we thought because towns is out already. And do you remember that with the neat thing this year? It was like day to day for a month and then he was just gone. They've been really weird about that this season.

I don't know what's going on. Well, and they're getting Jake Lehman back, but I don't think people wanted to see how the Russell Lehman duo is going to look. It's like what I was saying with Bagley. Like you've got to know how these guys fit together so you can make plans in the off season. Like this is really bad for Minnesota if he's going to be. out for a long period of time.

Because they have so many faces. Let me tell you, because the kid's been buried because he's on a bad team. You know, obviously he had a breakout last year. After watching a full game of him last night, bro, I'm going to tell you this. Fox is awesome. Fox is one of those guys that we're going to look up and it's like, geez, remember those years that were in Sacramento where he wasn't getting to play playoff basketball or whatever. He's still got to figure out being able to, you bat.

He hit a huge three last night with the game on the line, but I mean, he's still got to perfect that. But in terms of just sheer athleticism speed, he can be an outstanding defender, and he is also just as quick. And I mean, look, he is the only guy this season that I have seen

beat John Morant to his spot over and over again. No, it's like what you were saying earlier about situation. And I was funny because I feel like John Fox are kind of similar players. and Fox haven't forgotten this season because Jaws in this much better situation

but if they switch spots who knows if they're even any worse than Memphis they probably aren't oh no I mean look he's like a he's like Jha after a few seasons because Fox has really started to fill out you know

that's what happens is you start to you know become a man especially if you only spent a short amount of time in college but I still have all my Deerrin Fox stock because no Chris you know what it is I think special I think the difference between Deeran and John

is that Jaws playing with Jaron Jackson. De Arons playing with Bagley. That's what it comes down to a lot of it. Well, and Bagley doesn't play. Yeah. I do think, you know, look, I remember tweeting out a year ago after seeing them in person,

like if you've got Fox Bagley and healed, what a, I mean, that's about as perfect as you could ask for because you've got the big guy who's going to get you points and rebounds every night. You've got the point guard who is devastating. And then you got a guy that shoots a hell out of the ball, Well, you see, he lost his spot.

Bogg and took his spot already. I know. And you should be able to build around that. And in true King's form, they screwed it up. I remember when they tried it for Harrison Barnes. I tried to warn people. I said, this is not a good idea. He's not a great fit on a team like this.

Tried to warn him. Charks, thanks for filling in, man. Enjoy your weekend. And we will be back talking to everybody on Tuesday. Appreciate Bobby Wagner for producing the show once again. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, five stars, five stars. It really helps. And we will talk to you next week.