The Ringer NBA Show - Trending: Lakers and Clippers Up, Blazers and Rockets Down | Group Chat

Episode Date: November 6, 2019

We examine four Western Conference teams who have had a noteworthy week: the Los Angeles Lakers trending up (1:09), the Portland Trail Blazers trending down (14:32), the Los Angeles Clippers trending up (23:06), and the Houston Rockets trending down (32:12). Plus: league narratives we love to see and hate to see (40:45). Host: Justin Verrier Guest: Jonathan Tjarks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ringer NBA show is presented by State Farm, just like basketball. The game of life is unpredictable. Talk to a State Farm agent and get a teammate who could help you navigate the unexpected and help you handle whatever life throws your way. Last night, the heat got an unexpected outcome. Jonathan Charks, who we'll talk to today, asked us to watch the Miami Heat because of how well they've been playing. They were 5'1 going into last night's game against the Denver Nuggets.

Unfortunately, they were absolutely rocked, and we didn't end up getting to talk about how good they've been playing. But it seems like overall they have been better with Jimmy Butler, and we'll see if they could rebound later this week against, I believe, the Lakers. Get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. Talk to a State Farm agent today about combining your home and auto insurance. And now, group chat. Basketball is very good.

The spurs should shoot more mid-range jumpers. More players should have Trey Young's hairstyle. The Utah Jazz name actually makes sense. Basketball is very good. Hello and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. This is the group chat. I am Justin Verrier. And joining me on the line from Dallas,

the washed king himself. It's Jonathan Charts. What's up, buddy? I'm definitely washed. I'm not sure about being a king. Well, we'll see what we could do here on this podcast. Chris Ryan is not with us today. He is in Portland.

Isaac Lee is here, and we will have to lean on his L.A. expertise because we're going to be talking about both teams today. Believe it or not, we are officially coastal elitist, sorry, sharks. We're going to do a little segment we're calling trending topics for all you millennials out there. That is a reference to the interwebs. We're going to talk about teams that are trending up, trending down, and then we're going to do a little love to see it, hate to see it. America's number one segment that we've done running on two weeks now, I believe. So I think that went well last week, so we're going to do that

again. But let's start with trending up. And I hate to see this, but it's the Los Angeles Lakers. The last time we talked about the Lakers, we were pretty much bagging on them after their opening night, opening night lost to the Clippers and expecting them to lose. I believe we ended up at five and ten in their early season schedule. Oh my gosh. Did we say that? Yeah, well, you didn't. So that's good for you. Oh, thank you. Thanks for clarifying that. Yeah. I think we just as soon, given their lack of depth, given, you know, LeBon's age, everything we'd seen from them less. season that the regular season would be a slog. They'd be a good playoff team, but it'd be hard

to string together wins. They have won literally every single game since that point. They're six and one, which is first in the Western Conference. They are 14th on offense, but second on defense, which is the big surprise here. They have the second best net rating in the NBA as well. Charks, they were just in Dallas a little while ago. Did you manage to catch that game? And if so, what did you see? I actually missed that one, but I watched on TV. It was the Luca versus LeBron show. It was incredible. It was two guys.

I think LeBron was the oldest triple double ever, and Luca was like the youngest or some combination of stats. I forget exactly what it was. Yeah, it's funny. So I watched that game, and I haven't really moved my body in several months because of the start of the NBA season. So I tried to escape to the gym. And what ended up happening was the game just kept getting more and more interesting to

the point where I was literally just walking on the treadmill for, I think, upwards of an hour as the guy next to me was just like hooping and hollering the entire time. So that was fun. It's a real cool Friday night experience. Don't use basketball as an excuse. You just don't work out anymore. That's also true. My CrossFit era has unfortunately ended prematurely.

So I think the big questions here, obviously this is working, the defense is working. We'll get to that a little bit. But my first question is about LeBron, three straight triple doubles, which is why he sent out that tweet last night where he quote tweeted the Lakers account saying he had that many triple-double. bubbles, and he put washed king with the little shushy emoji, and I believe there might have been a crown and is there as well. Charks, what are you seeing from LeBron? Does he seem like he's aging gracefully into maybe this back end of his career? Yeah, I mean, I think he's really figuring out his game as he gets older. I was looking at the numbers. He's right now in the 100th percentile as a post-up score. And that's something that you wrote about pretty recently, right? He has to play more

buoy ball. He's just using his size. He's a really smart player. I mean, they're spreading the floor for him. I think to me, what stands out watching them is just, like, what happened to LeBron taking a step back? Like, LeBron is still doing LeBron's stuff. So he's number two in the league and touches per game. He's having 35 minutes per game. He's straight of 32. It just feels like LeBron's just kind of boss hogging the balls always and doing his thing. And it doesn't seem as much if a handover of power between him and AD. Yeah, it's definitely a different, LeBron. Even physical obviously he's been bigger for a little while now. He was last year, but there's something about him where he has this look,

and perhaps this is me just projecting onto him as a fellow 30-something man, but just like he's bigger and it seems like it's tough to lose that weight. He just seems to be like ballooning a little bit more. And so like he is a four now, like at the very least, perhaps even like a five in the right lineups would present themselves in this Lakers lineup, even though they're just so stacked at the five that it probably wouldn't happen. but he also is like he's taking the

what we used to say about Chris Paul approach where he's very deferential early but he still has that ability to just really turn it on and in that Mavs game specifically it seemed like he saw Luca kind of taking the reins and it was like no actually

I'm going to stop this right now yeah that's my concern with LeBron really is like can he take a step back like can it be Anthony Davis's team or is it always going to be LeBron's team well that's a great question because it does feel like from the jump, and we said this before

in the midst of being pessimistic about the Lakers, it did feel like LeBron had conceded and was willing to give over the reins to AD. And I think that's really worked for them. You could definitely see on the court how they're always interacting. It just seems like they have very good chemistry.

AD, there was that clip of him like making fun of LeBron for his hairline at a certain point. It just seems like them together really works. AD has been playing well. He obviously had that 40-20 game the other night. And I think the big thing is right now, the defense is working. And if you have Anthony Davis engaged on offense,

and this has always been the case, especially earlier in his career. When he's engaged on offense, he's going to bring it on defense. And I think that's where LeBron's, just his presence pays off for them. So here's my concern, though. So if you look at the numbers,

LeBron is actually having a career high and assists at 11. and AD is passing less than he did in New Orleans. So my concern is like, AD is being more of the finisher, LeBron's the playmaker, and is LeBron going to hold up for 70 games playing this way? He got hurt last year with that soft tissue injury at Christmas Day. And I feel like they're relying so much on LeBron. He's doing so much right now. I mean, this is the NBA.

It's the cliche, it's a marathon on a sprint. Like, can LeBron play this way for nine months? That's the issue to me, really, right now. Yeah, you always worry perhaps this is the in-referrous, of what we've seen from the brawn lately, just since he's decided to kind of coast early on and then turn it up as the playoffs come on. Perhaps like now we're just worried that he's giving too much too early.

I guess we won't really know. Kyle Kuzma has come back, and he played well last night. He helped rally the bench along with Quinn Cook in order to bring them back against the Bulls in order to get that six straight win. I don't know. I think that's probably why they're so concerned about defense,

and they talked about this in the preseason, that they want to be a defensive team. team and yada, yada, yada. I guess going forward, another concern I have, though, is just how long they're going to be able to buy minutes with a traditional five on the floor next to Anthony Davis. Dwight Howard has pretty much become one of the best backup centers in the league. Yeah, and like they could steal minutes from JVille McGee. But I think there's almost like this tacit acknowledgement from everybody, including like

just fans and the team that AD at the five is their most dangerous approach. they just can't go to it often because they don't have the wings to support it. Yeah, and I wonder too, because the star power is so great, against most of the league, LeBron and AD is enough. You can kind of have a lot of, like, you know, not maximize the rest of the roster, but against the Clippers, against, you know, the Sixers, the Bucks, those elite teams, you're going to see in June, May in June, at that point, do all those missing pieces come to play?

Can you count on it, Casey, to keep this up? Quinn Cook is playing really well right now. can keep count on that. I don't know. Right. Quinn Cook is playing well. You get some good crusoe minutes. KCP is actually shooting particularly well, and that's notable, considering how poorly he started and just how tumultuous his tenure has been with the Lakers ever since pretty much being gifted salary after salary from the Lakers organization because of his relationship with clutch.

I don't know, though. Like, Rondo is going to come back at a certain point, and, like, I am silently just worried that that might actually throw off what they have, that Rondo. tends to dominate the ball and will definitely kill your defense at certain times. And they don't really have the assets unless someone is particularly interested in Kyle Kuzma to make a trade. So they really do need to make this work. And I don't know. I'm just, I think the worries that we came into the season about this team still exist despite how well things are going.

Well, it's going to have to be the buyout market. So in February and March, they're going to have to hope Iguodala doesn't get traded, that he gets spot out. and they probably got to find maybe a little more shooting, another ball handler. I think they probably need two more pieces, and that's going to have to come through minimum salaries on buyouts. Yeah, it's a bummer, too, because if they had just the ability to trade one more draft pick, I wonder, like, what a Kyle Lowry would look like on this team when it's LeBron, Kyle Lowry, Danny Green, and AD as your four, and you just fill in that fifth spot.

That's just like, that's a team that I think would give the Clippers a run for their money. I mean, you can only trade like 30 draft picks, right? At a certain point, you gotta stop dealing. Right, unfortunately. The only other thing I have here is just Anthony Davis. I know they talked about this on the Mitch match yesterday, but my guy, just stopped saying things. He was in Chicago the past two days, I believe,

and at a certain point, somebody asked him about playing in Chicago, and he gave a very coy response where he's just like, honestly, he's nothing like playing at home. I don't know. I mean, I'm a free agent next year. We'll see. It's just, I have no bandwidth for Anthony,

Davis just like causing commotion. There's just every indication is that he will come back. And while, I mean, things could go very poorly for this Lakers team after what happened last year with this guy in New Orleans, I think maybe just take a playoff and just like pass on some questions. I don't know. You are the 80 whisperers. He's trying to be funny.

What's your take on that? I don't know how much whispering I've been doing to him lately. I haven't seen him in a while. But I think it's smart that he's keeping his options. open. There really is no benefit to him to commit to the Lakers financially or just like by signing contract. Now, rather than this offseason, it just seems like once again, he's just very impressionable. And not only in the approach he's taking with this next contract and just like trying to apply pressure to the organization, which is the LeBron tactic and he's very much following in

LeBron's footsteps, but he tends to say things that people want to hear. And so I could see him in a crowd of Chicagoans. He's back home. He's getting his favorite pizza after. the game as Dave McMahon took a photo of. And I could just see him wanting to cater to the crowd and just want to get like cheers or whatever. Yeah, it's tough, man. I mean, Chicago in November and December. I mean, you're living in LA, you're going to do that?

I don't know, man. It's cold up there. Right. He does have Chicago, I believe, tattooed on his right arm. I could see a situation where if the bulls were feisty and they had the right environment for him, he would think about it. But I also think he's really kind of enjoying this. Lakers run, not only just because they're doing better, but he's in the spotlight.

And that's something that he's always wanted. He's always played well, but I think he's really bristled at the fact that he doesn't get the recognition that he deserves. I mean, the whole thing with Rich Paul making those kind of Snyder marks at Janus, and also that Anthony Davis wanted, you know, more recognition from Nike when Janus was getting his own signature shoe. And you could definitely see him playing up to it. There was a Nike commercial where he's just like talking about like his life in Chicago,

yada yada and I don't know. It just seems like he has a different, he's carrying himself differently and I think that's another product of his relationship with LeBron. I mean, he is getting talked about on group chat, so I think he's looking up for AD.

Before he got out of here though, you see that Ruffles ad he did? Oh my God. Yes, I was sending that to everybody. What's up with your guy? So Charks is referring to AD wearing a sleeping mask and I think like a neck pillow

that you bring on a flight. And in a lot of locker, he had ruffles that glowed in the dark because apparently he's afraid of the dark. Was that it? Am I remember this? That's correct. They said that. I didn't know what to make of that. So that was news to me. I was a little struck because the ruffles flavor. I forgot what it was also seemed kind of gross. But on the other hand, as someone who's often like eaten snacks on the couch, I get it. Like it's dark. You can't really see what snack you're picking from the bag.

You want to know, like, the size or just, like, how much you're putting into your mouth at a certain time. So I actually applaud the ingenuity of our friend Anthony here. I guess let's just say if you're getting Raffles' ads, there's still work to do before you're really a superstar, a celebrity anyways. Right. This is an upgrade, though, from some of his past advertisements, including one when he was in New Orleans and he was doing an ad for H&R Block. And they did not mention the fact that he is one of the best shot blockers in the NBA. Doesn't that say at all? His two biggest ads are H&R Block and Rock.

Ruffles. What charisma? The Ruffles flavor, by the way, is just cheddar and sour cream. So it's not all that disgusting. I don't really mess with sour cream. What? Yeah. We got to have talk about this afterwards. Or cottage cheese. I don't mess with any of the dips. Justin, what? I know. I know. You guys have to kick me off the pod now. All right, let's move along here. I'm trying to make a snack joke, but I can't make it the transition. So we're just going to go to the Portland Trailblazers. They are our team that is down. They're way down. They just got a blizzard.

by the Warriors G League team on national TV in which our guy Eric Pachel. Am I pronouncing that right? Paschelle. Paschal. All right. That guy looked like the ghost of Kevin Durant. Villanova great. Villanova, yes.

He and Omari Spellman are just carrying on the proud tradition of Jay Wright. It's not going great for the Blazers. They are 18th in net rating now. It just seems like the front court issues that we all expected them to have. have only been compounded. Hassan Whiteside has missed the game. Pao Gassal hasn't played at all yet. And the big one, obviously,

Zach Collins will now miss four months with a left labrum surgery. He dislocated that. So, Sharks, things are not working for the Blazers right now. How concerned are you? I love that it's obviously Zach Collins. My guy is moving up in the world. And I think his value will be seen even more now that he's out.

So I was at the game where he got hurt in Dallas. And you could just see the team, like, because he hurt his shoulder and it was obvious right away. It was a big injury. And it was just like, oh, my goodness. There was a very deflated moment because he's such an important part of their team. He's their starting power forward. He closed games at the five with them.

He was their best shooting big man, their best all-round big man. He had the best narrating on their team. And without him, it's just really, really thin up front. They have no two-way players. They have no size, no – not even very much shooting. It's just without Collins, it's just Dame and CJ Jack and shots. And that's just only going to take you so far. playing any defense. And to me, the number that stands out. So over the last few years,

their defense has gone from number eight in the league to number 16, it's number 23 this season, and that's just not going to get it done. Yeah, it's kind of a familiar thing here where it seems like the offense is there, that they've been able to cobble together enough with Dame and CJ and playing a little bit of small ball with Rodney Hood there. Anthony Tolliver is getting minutes, and he's obviously going to help you stretch the floor a little bit. But the drop off from Hassan White's side to just virtually anybody else in this front court is just staggering to the point where I believe Mario Hizonia is like spotting at the five at certain times in small ball lineups.

He's playing a lot of four for sure. They're playing Scalibusier a lot. I mean, it's really, they're down to seeds and stems out there. And I get it. Their hands were tied this offseason. They were up against the luxury tax and everything else. And Whiteside seemed like to me enough of a stopgap in order to wait out until Yusuf Nurkich comes.

But we're at the kind of the darkest timeline here where there are a lot of the guys that they just needed on the floor have gotten hurt. And so they've been exposed there. And I think the biggest problem I saw was they were just completely listless against the Warriors. And that's just not what you expect from a team that was just all guile and bravado in last year's playoffs. I don't know what's happened, but perhaps it's a malaise. Maybe it's just like they've done this regular season routine so much before. But it just doesn't seem like there's enough of a spark to overcome a lot of just the functional issues.

Well, they've also lost Ameno and Harkless. And those guys were limited offensive players, but they gave you a defensive floor because they're 6-8, 6-9, switchable, compete, aggressive players. Without them out there, it's just a really undersized team.

And if you have, like, good defensive players on Dame and CJ, you're going to be at least somewhat good because those guys are score enough points. But now it's just all offense, very little defense. Team is not very balanced. And I think they'll have to make a trade to me,

is my guess, looking at that roster right now. Yeah, I mean, they definitely raised their risk profile. They saw in the playoffs, Mo Harclos struggle again from the floor. Alfa Rukamino not getting as much defensive attention. And they're like, oh, well, we can't do that yet again for another playoffs. And I get going out and leaning more into guys like Ken Baysmer. Rodney Hood had a very good postseason for them.

But this is what ended up happening. It just doesn't seem like they have the same floor and they have the same stability at those positions that they're used to. Well, that's what have missing Collins. Without him, the whole thing doesn't work. He was the piece that made it all fit together. Yep, totally. And so now I think everybody is just waiting breathlessly until they make a trade.

So we named a few guys here. I would say the first tier of guys that I would start looking at are obviously some of these superstar fours who have either fallen out of favor or just their teams just don't have much of a trajectory here this season. Gallo, Kevin Love, Blake Griffin. Which of these three guys is the most appealing to you?

Oh, it's tough. First off, all those guys are really injury prone, right? So, like, if you sell out for one of those guys and they get hurt, then you're really cooked. That's the tough part for me, because I think all three make them so much better on offense. I think Blake's the best player, but Howard's knees these days, you know? He's not even playing right now. Yep, he hasn't played this season. Kevin Love is obviously, he seems like he's back.

Yeah, he's a Portland guy. I think I was listening to Brian Winhorse the other day, and I think there is, kind of a mixed relationship with going back there, but it sounds like, according to Brian, that Love is more open to doing so. The problem there is injuries, one, and two, the contract. I believe he has four more years on his deal,

so you're not just committing to Kevin Love for right now, but you are committing to him as part of your core, and I'm just not sure how he's going to age. I think Gallo's better anyways. What do you think, Isaac? Does Gallup are and Kevin Love this point in his career? At this point in his career, yes, but he's not all that far behind Kevin Love and age,

so you have to keep that in mind. I guess less money too, though. The thing with Gallo is obviously that he's on an expiring contract, and OKC, you would imagine, would be more willing to part with him and willing to part with him for less than perhaps a guy like Love who, I think the Cavs signed him to that contract in large part

in order to trade him, and you look at the roster that they have out there. I watched your game against the Celtics last night, and they're very much just bereft of anything outside of their two most recent first round picks. and so after love, there really isn't much more in order to get much of a return in a trade and thus I wonder if they'll ask for more.

I think the guy that had to give up is Anthony Simons, who they love? And that's the question is, will they move off Simons to get more innocent front court relief? Right. So if they don't go superstar shopping, then we get into the next tier of guys. The first guy, Al Faruuk Aminu,

obviously... Time is a flat circle, Justin. Apparently. Everything comes back to Al Faruq. Bobby Portis on the next, Jay Crowder, who is just kind of in limbo in Memphis, along with Andrea Goodala. And you have listed here Marvin Williams, who... I think Marvin Williams is the guy, actually. That, to me, makes the most sense. He's on the bench now in Charlotte because they're going full youth movement. He's behind PJ Washington.

But he isn't veteran. He shoots threes. He knows his role. I mean, if you're playing Anthony Tall for 30 minutes a night, you could have anyone to be an upgrade, really. Yeah, but is Marvin Williams that upgrade? Because last I checked... I'm telling you. He's where Anthony Tolliver. Yeah. I'm comfortable saying that. I don't know.

Marvin, after signing that contract of that one big year with Charlotte where he pushed them into the playoffs, I just like haven't seen much from him. I guess he's shooting... Yeah, but you're not watching Charlotte though, Justin. Seen much from him. This is true. In fact, I tried to tune in briefly last night against the Pacers and I lasted all of two minutes. But I actually blame you because you forced us to watch the heat for this segment and

they just got it completely obliterated. Oh, that was a tough. That was a tough one. That was a tough one for your eat. So, I don't know. I think something needs to happen. Another guy we have listed here, the charts you put down here, Aaron Gordon, Robert Covington, if things fall apart in Minnesota, which, given just the injuries they're having in their front court or their back court right now, it seems like is inevitable. And Thad Young, who... I think Thad Young makes a ton of sense, actually, because Chicago's not planned very well. And he's played really well for them. Yeah, I think for the reasons you mentioned, it makes sense to...

go the stopgap route. I just think if you're going to sacrifice any of your young depth, you're kind of biting off your, what is it? You spite your face, biting off your nose. What is that saying? What are you talking about? This bite your nose, does spite your face? He's in his own world now. Who knows? I don't know what the phrase is. Great. So they're doing that. They're doing that where they're just, you know, they're hurting themselves in a different way, is what I'll say. Okay. Well, on that point, let's move on. The Los Angeles Clippers, Isaac's own. They are the other team that we have up here.

They are fourth in the west at 5 and 2. Their offense has been pretty spectacular, especially when Kauai Leonard is on the floor. They have a plus 6.1 net rating. And Jonathan Charks wrote today on The Ringer.com that they are way out in front of the title race already. It sounds like Paul George, Isaac told me to mention as soon as possible, might be coming back sooner rather than later.

and Sharks, that's the point you made in your article that if and when they get him back, they could take the leap to perhaps the Jordan era Bulls. I know that sounds crazy, but I feel like it's not. If you look at their numbers, when Kauai's in, they're plus 18. When Kauai's out, they're minus 9.

So if they can plug in a second superstar who can play with Kauai, play without Kauai. I mean, this team to me just looks like a freaking machine. And though, you got to start with Kauai. You got to get the game on something. You want to tell us what happened on that, in that Utah game? Yeah, so it was very strange

because it was kind of a sleepy environment. It was kind of a slog, a bit of a slug fest against Utah. And then all of a sudden, you could kind of tell that Kauai was like, nah. And he just, he does this thing where he never looks like he's consciously doing anything differently

because he doesn't really emote on the floor. And even his, some of his maneuvers are very mechanical. Obviously, the whole robot thing that everyone talks about with him. It was kind of like a play act QB, where it seems like all of a sudden you look up and he has 18 points in the fourth quarter. And I think that's the big thing with him. Whenever he wants to dominate, it seems like he can.

Yeah. I mean, he's in the 98th percentile of isolation scores. It just feels like he's at that point now. With KD out, I think he's probably the best score in the league. Like, he just scores at will these days. There's just nothing you can do about it. Like he gets to his spots. He's so big and strong. such a good shooter. It's just like, all right, he's going to score. Unless you double team him, and now he's a better pass or two. Like, to me, Kauai,

for Kauai to be this good, that's why I think it starts with a bull's comparison. Like, Doc called Kauai MJ, like after the game on Sunday. And it's not crazy the way he's playing right now. Yeah, and it's funny because Kauai obviously did this last postseason, but it almost feels like the clippers have an even better contacts for him now. And this is something you wrote about as well.

It's just you look around the court, and they're just shooters and defenders everywhere. Yeah, so this floor is always spaced for Kauai, and he's always playing with four good defenders. And it's allowed him to almost simplify his game. He has a, you should write at 40, which is James Harden-like, and he's shooting more than every his entire career. Because he's like, I'm going to maximize my time on the floor.

If I get the ball, it's going up. That's what stood out to me, too, looking at his numbers. So he only touches the ball 65 times per game. So a comparison, Hardens at 84. Lucas at 104. So Kauai is touching almost half as often, but he's scoring more

because he gets the ball it's going up instantly. There's no waste in motion, two dribbles, shot, boom. I mean, like, it's a cliche, but he really is a machine at this point. Yeah, I mean, one of the big concerns

I had going into the season with the Clippers, and it was a minor one. It was just they just didn't have the ball handlers that you would like, but that hasn't been an issue because whenever Kauai wants the ball,

they just give it to him and he just dominates. It's really just startling. And then when Paul George comes back, they'll obviously have another player to do so. And another thing you mentioned was just like Lou Williams has been kind of the one sore spot on defense, but he's playing more there,

and they're probably going to him more simply because they don't have George. Yeah, he's a second score right now. And when Paul George comes back, then you can have either Quayin or Paul Georgian, and then I think you can pick and choose his Lou a little more carefully because, okay, this thing can attack him on defense, take him out right now.

We'll wait. You can use Lou more as a choice. change a pace back. He comes in for like five minutes and scores a lot and comes out. But without Paul George's there, he has to kind of carry the offense for a while. And to me, like, you look at George and Kauai, that combination of players, like, 6-7, 6-8, they can both shoot it, they can both handle, they can both defend, they can both pass. It's tough, man. That is a really, really, like, you compare them to even the other great wing combos, right?

So you had D. Wade and LeBron, like iffy shooters. You had Clay and KD. Clay is not really a point guard. But with Paul George and Kauai, they can do everything. They're both such, like, well-rounded players. That's what really makes them so good is they have no holes in their game. And that makes them very, very tough to match up with in a playoff series. Yeah, my only concern is just the load management.

Kwai is sitting out tonight's Bucks game. That's pretty heartbreaking, missing Kauai versus Yannis. I know. That really is a bummer. Sharks wrote going into this season how Kauai and Yannis are the next LeBron and KD. So this is particularly heartbreaking for him. Yeah, I just, I think the Suns game, which was their first loss after those two big wins

against the Lakers and the Warriors, I think that was the kind of the reality check for me. Not that they lost to a team like the Suns who actually has acquitted itself well. The Suns have been pretty feisty these days, but they couldn't really go to Kauai in crunch time as much as they wanted because they were like being more stringent

about his minutes load. I think they're keeping them around like the 30 minute mark. And that's what's going to happen. If he's not going to sit out, he's going to sit out games, but they're also going to have to be cautious with them. So until Paul George comes back, it just seems like they probably will punt some wins that they otherwise would have. See, to circle it back, if I was the Lakers, this is how I would treat LeBron. I would, like, what's the point in pressing him this far this early in the season? I'd be wrestling him a lot, you know?

I know LeBron has, like, great doctors and great trainers, and he really is in peak physical condition and blah, blah, blah. but if I'm Lakers, like LeBron's a priceless asset. Like the Clippers are not going to waste Kauai in November. They're going to make sure he's going to be ready for May and June. If I'm the Lakers, that's what I'd be worrying about. Because ultimately, if you're the Lakers, right, you know you've got to go through the Clippers.

And you know if the Clippers have home court advantage, it doesn't matter, right? It's a Staple Center. So you're at home court no matter what. Yeah, I mean, it basically, it comes back to the main distinction between the two L.A. franchises, which the Lakers have two phenomenal players,

whereas the Clippers have just two phenomenal players plus an entire roster is perfectly suited to what they do. I mean, you don't have a Trez and Lou just waiting on the bench nor just spot LeBron. And that is probably the main difference in this season. I do wonder, even if we get to the playoffs, some of those minutes where they're obviously going to have to sit LeBron or AD for a certain amount of time, and that's when the Clippers' advantage will just start to show.

But you think the Lakers at this point are their biggest competition in the Clippers? I think so. I mean, we'll talk about the Rockets in a second, but I really feel like the L. I mean, I thought coming into the year at the L.A. teams were the best two teams in the conference, and nothing has happened so far as Shane of mind about that. Wow. I can't believe you're still on the Rockets bandwagon. We should pivot there because that's as good of a tease as we're going to get. Did I say that? Okay, we're going to take a quick break, and we're going to come back and talk about the Rockets and do some love to see it. I hate to see it. Today's episode of the Ringer NBA show group chat is brought to you by Fanduel.

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www. www. 800 gambler.net or in Indiana, call 1-800-9 with it. And now back to group chat. All right, we're back. It's Charks. Justin, Isaac is here.

We kept him kind of away from the clippers the last second. Do you have any lingering thoughts? Well, you guys ended the segment talking about the Lakers, which is very offensive. We were talking your team up so much.

What are you going to say? We were being so positive. I was thinking this the other day, like, this is really bad for my personal brand, because my personal brand has been one of misery and of nothing's ever going to work out. And now suddenly, the Clippers are the favorite, so I don't know what's going to happen to my personal brand. But you know what? I will sacrifice my brand if my favorite team wins a championship. I mean, that's what they always say, right, to win a championship, you all got to sacrifice?

Even the fans. Even the fans. You're like a goth kid, Isaac, that just, like, all of a sudden has to go to a job and, like, wash away the makeup and the pain. take out the nose ring. You hate to see it. That is my hate to see it for today. Let's talk about the rockets quickly. They are definitely down.

They have given up in a single game this season, 158 points, 129 and 123 twice. They were down at one point in the first quarter to Miami, 59 to 18. Jeff Bedzillic, where are you, my guy? They need some help.

Is this as simple, Charks as saying this is what happens when you introduce Russell Westbrook into this finally crafted environment for James Harden? I will say the numbers with Westbrook are tough. It's worse than with Mello last year on their defense when Westbrook is in his Westbrook is out. That's tough. Yeah, that's tough. I don't think necessarily Westbrook himself. I feel like it's what Westbrook represents. So here's my theory for the Rockets. My theory is they're playing way, way, way too fast. So last year they were the 26th fasts team in the league. You're the second fastest. And to me, it just makes sense with the rest of their roster. They're really old. They're very thin.

They don't have much of a bench. And our guy James Harden, he's not a guy who's got to be up and on the court really fast. He's huffing and puffing out there. Yeah. Zach Cram had a piece on on the Ringer earlier this week about just like the pace numbers with Russell Westbrook in there. and it definitely seems like they're playing two different styles at certain times. And it makes sense to do so, but it just almost seems like everyone else on the roster is Taylor made to James Hardin but not Russell Westbrook. Is that fair? I think so.

So the number for Hardin that's just out to me, so Hardin is in the seventh percentile at Princeton scores this year. Seventh, and he's 7th and a half board scoring. Like, James Hardin is not a guy who is to be running for 40 minutes. It's just not a recipe for success. Yeah, he's going to want to bring the ball up the court. He's going to want to grind it out. And it doesn't help when our guy is just shooting as poorly as Cam Reddish.

Sorry, Isaac. I don't know what is happening to him this season, but he has just been off in a way that I haven't seen him in a very long time. It does seem like people are playing more that Milwaukee Bucks defense where they're playing him on the one side and making him go to his right. I forget which side it is, but they're playing off from that one side, like to go against a step back.

Because I know it's kind of coming. Yeah, and Mike Dantone kind of leaned into this the other day. One of my favorite quotes of the early season so far, we're not in trouble, and this was after the heat game, we're not in trouble,

but if we think we're not in trouble, then we're in trouble, if that makes sense. I think that really kind of underscores thing. The question going forward is, like, how do they fix this? Is this just like integrating Russ better into what they do?

do they have the assets to go out and trade for somebody? Is Clint Capella, a guy that they've dangled in the past, and it sounded like they were doing so this offseason before they went out and got Russ? Is that a way to upgrade what they need? I think they want to move them. You can really tell, Dan Tony had some quote where I think it was the Nets game.

Capella played like 19 minutes, and they asked him why he didn't play more. He's like, well, he's playing badly. I'm not going to play him more often if he said, to play badly. And to me, like Capella, he's kind of hit his season. dealing who he has as a player.

And with Russ there, I think you can probably afford to play smaller, because Russ is grabbing like 12 boards a game anyways. To me, if I was Houston, I got to tell Russ to chill out. We're slowing it down. We're trying to play games in the 100s, not the 120s. Because to me, like, with their roster, if you look up another roster, they're not crazy talented. They've got to slow the game down, let Harden win games for them playing one-on-one.

And to me, I would use Russ more as like a screener. a lot of Russ Harden Pick and Rules. That to me is the way to use Russ in the offense where he doesn't have the ball and where he's making the defense guard him off the ball. And I think that's the thing is like, will Russ sacrifice? Can they tell Russ anything?

I have no idea. So you want to turn Russell Westbrook into Aaron Baines? Yes, yes. It's something to try. It's a different idea. He's getting closer and closer to a man bun, although he seems like he's going the other way where his braids are coming over his face and little, like, tassels.

Yeah, I think it makes sense in theory, but then that introduces the main question, which is like, what coach could ever ask Russ to do that? It has to be James Hardin. He has to, like, not be passive, aggressive and just, he needs to be the leader of this team. He needs to tell Russ, it's my team. We're playing my style.

All this stuff about, oh, we're going to mix styles. No, it's James Hardin's team. Russ has got to get in line. Like, Russ, your style doesn't work. Y'all lost no, Plum the City. If you're going to play on my team, you've got to play my way. But that's not really a hardness style. It hardens more of like a passive-aggressive guy where, okay, do what you want, see if it works.

But we're watching it now. It's not working. Yeah. And I've definitely seen Russ kind of lean into that identity more, that kind of like hustle player that he probably needs to be. I remember against the Nets once he just like completely ran back on defense and swatted a shot. And I was like, oh, there's Russ kind of in the Ben Simmons mode where Ben Simmons is now where he's just engaged on defense. he's using just his physicality and his just elite athleticism in order to make an impact there. The problem, obviously, is just he's just not there as often as he needs to be.

But I also worry about, you know, we mentioned Clint Capella earlier, but like where's Eric Gordon, a guy that they put a lot of money into this year, and maybe that's just to inflate his value on the trade market. I'm not sure, but he had been a key contributor before, and he's just not coming up with a lot of points. He's averaging at this point 10 points a game, which is not what. what you want to see out there. Shooting 20, what is with this team?

He's shooting 28% from the floor, 23% from 3. So here's my theory with that too, with Gordon. It's all threes. It's a streakier shot. I think Houston's above 50% on threes this year

in terms of number of three field goals attempted. It's more than half three. So if you take that many threes, you're going to be streakier, right? That's just the nature of the shot. And I do wonder if that's a trickle-down effect of Russ, right?

If Russ is handling the ball, then perhaps more shots you're getting or on kickouts and you're trying to space. And I think in general, like, if Rusty on the ball, you're creating more possessions, but this is not a team that needs to have more possessions. They're not that talented. Like, they're really relying on Ben McLemore, who's like, say this career, maybe, but, you know, don't be pushing Ben McLemore too far.

Reel that in. That is definitely, like, the sneaky issue of this team, where I think everyone expected, given the depth that they accumulated over last season, since they rolled over a lot of those guys, the Austin Rivers, the Eric Gordon's, the Daniel House, a favorite on this podcast, that they would be fine there. It just, it seems like, like the Blazers,

they are precariously thin at certain spots. Yeah, that's their entire team. That's like six guys. Right. Thalbolo's Folozsche is getting minutes. And once again, if PJ Tucker... If PJ Tucker misses time, I worry very much for this team.

Oh, yeah, they'd be falling apart and play with that PJ Tucker. He has silently been just like one of the most important players of the past, like, three years. He's a rock, man. He plays, he closed games at the five a lot now. Like, they'll bench Schapella play PJ at the five with like six, four. It's crazy, man.

Yeah, it's funny to say, but PJ Tucker in a certain way is kind of like defined an era of basketball. Is that too much? He's their second most valuable player. I'll say that. Exactly. Yeah. Hardin is allowed to be what he is because PJ Tucker does so much on the defensive end.

You know what he is? He's a new age, like Charles Oakley, just like a bruiser. He's like the enforcer on that team. I love it. All right. Let's wrap this up here. We're going to go to America's number one segment. It's called Love to See it.

Number one. I love to see it, eight to see it. We're going to start off by listing some things that we enjoyed in the NBA this week. Charks, what is your first love to see it? I'm sticking on brand. Malcolm Brogden, All-Star point guard. Yeah. I mean, the Pacier is not been fun to watch, but he's killing it, man.

He's number five in the league and touches per game. He's holding the ball the whole game. 24 points, 9 assists, 50% shooting. India, they don't have Oladipo. They don't have Miles Turner. They don't have Subonis. Malcolm Brogden is winning games for them. My guy is killing it.

Best backward in the league, Brogden O'Dipo. Do you think Brogden is going to win MVP this year? I mean, one step at a time. This year is the All-Star year. We'll worry about the MVP down the road. Yeah. We should also mention that the Pacers lost in overtime to the Hornets last night.

Well, I'm saying that he was one of their top four players is in right now. Right, right, right. That's not bad. Malcolm Brognan needs more help. When is he going to get the guys in order to support his MVP campaign? I'm telling you. It's going to happen.

All right, what I love to see, I'm not sure how much I love to see this, but maybe I'm just like curious about this or fascinated by this whole thing. Andre Drummond quietly is pushing the 20 rebound average mark, which would be unprecedented in the NBA. shout to Shocker Saman, one of our staffers here at the Ringer, who pointed this out. Shocker, one of, I think, the only Detroit Pistons fans in existence. I mean, if you watch Pistons games, there's not many people there, so. Yes, they have a very big problem there, but not with Drummond, who's averaging 19.4 rebounds a game right now,

which is incredible. He obviously doesn't have a lot of competition for those boards because Blake Griffin hasn't played a game yet. and I think I looked up the uncontested rebounds versus contested rebounds, and I think over half of them are uncontested. So this is probably largely a product of Drummond just getting the ball whenever there's nobody around

in order to fight him for the rebound. But Andre Drummond quietly having just one of the more fascinating careers I've ever seen, where he is dominant to a certain extent, but it doesn't ever lead to winning basketball. I just want to go back real quick, and you were like, okay, love to see it.

I'm not sure I actually love this. Like, that's how cynical you are. You couldn't find one thing you actually love. You still had to hedge, the one thing you settle. I don't actually like this at all, but I'll say it anyways, because for this segment. Well, you know, I just love to see a fellow Yukon grad thriving. I love to see that. I guess I don't love to see Andre Drummond playing,

and particularly just mopping up statistics for a very bad Detroit Pistons team. He went coast to coast together day. I was impressed. I was like, whoa, Drummond's like, I'll bring up myself. I didn't see that coming. Yeah, there was a game against the Wizards, which I watched a little of the other day, in which they were just completely barren at point guard

because Blake Griffin isn't there. Tim Frazier's been hurt, Derek Rose. Reggie Jackson. Yeah, Reggie Jackson's out for a couple weeks now. And it was basically like Luke Kinnard and Ronjay Drummond orchestrating offense. It was a sight to behold. I'll say that.

So I love to see that sort of kind of, maybe not. Hate to see it. Charks, what are you hating to see this week? I mean, what kills me about Milwaukee is they've got some really good young players just dying on the bench. So last week, they won a couple games because they played Sterling Brown and Don the Devinchenzo because Kyle Corver and West Matthews were hurt. And those two guys just add a whole album to their team. And they had this guy, DJ Wilson, who doesn't play for them, who's freaking amazing.

To me, Bud is just such a conservative old man. He's going with his vets no matter what. I think it's still going to hurt their team. They've got some great young players. But be aggressive. Play your best players. Please, come on. Yeah.

But silently, the books, as I learned last night, number one net rating in the NBA right now. How dare you bring that up, Justin, in my segment. So they're doing okay. But yes, it would be great to see him kind of diversifying the lineup there. I am going to go south of Milwaukee here and say that I hate to see the Pelicans son Zion Williamson, particularly on defense. The Pelicans have dealt with a lot of injuries thus far. Derek Favors has been banged up. Drew Holiday's been banged up, obviously, Zion as well.

And while the Brandon Ingram show has just been pretty fun to watch, he had a career high 40 the other night. It just hasn't been going well overall for the team, particularly on defense. I think they're one and six overall. They brought in Jeff Bed-Zillick late of the Houston Rockets, and they replaced Darren Ehrman with him. And once again, it just doesn't seem like an Alvin Gentry coach team can really put together much there. And while, yes, once again, Alvin is faced with a bunch of injuries, which is he's faced throughout his tenure in New Orleans, some of the lineup combinations they're working with, like don't make a lot of sense to me.

And I'm wondering if this thing gets out of hand, whether or not he will be the guy they blame. My theory is, going back to the pace discussion, it's like they just play too fast to play defense. It's really, really hard to play defense and you play that many possessions. I think you just get run down. I think the score gets inflated.

People start running. It gets a little sloppy at the game. It's just hard to lock down defensively you're going to play at the fastest pace in the league every single year. That's my theory anyways.

Yeah, and that's a great point. I mean, obviously, they're going to thrive on offense. It's always been Alvin's kind of approach there. And they are, in their defense, also, like, trying to work in some of these younger guys who are still trying to figure things out,

Nikila Alexander Walker being the prime example of that, Nico Melly, a guy who just like... I mean, they're working in Julie local for an awful lot. lot. I don't know if he counts as a younger guy. Right. I mean, O'Ker4 has been starting for them. I guess I'm just a little disappointed because guys like the Lakers crew, Ingram, Ball, Hart, they really shouldn't be in that category where they're still developing. I mean, these guys are in for Lonzo. Year 3 and Josh Hart and Ingram's pretty much really in the year right before. Well, I think those guys are like, let's get our stats. Or whatever. Like, we're here

to get stats down, get a contract. I think they see those contracts coming up. You got to get those count and stats up and get that money. Right. And that's what you're worry about with a team that's playing this poorly. All right, let's wrap it there. We will be back next week to talk about all of the goodness in the NBA. Chris will be back with us. Until then, for Charks, Isaac, I am Justin. We will see you next time. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.