The Ringer NBA Show - Tricks and Treats of the Early NBA Season (Ep. 153)

Episode Date: October 31, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor discuss the personnel problems with the Cavs (10:00), the surprising top teams in the league (28:00), Aaron Gordon's improvement (38:00), the impressive young Bucks (50:00), and Kobe's film crew (1:02:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. Joining me as he does every Tuesday from The Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Conert. Kevin. Verno, what up? How are you doing? I will start this Halloween edition of the NBA show with an admission to you, Kevin.

Okay. I can't stand Halloween. Wow. Yeah, I know. Wow. I wasn't expect on that. Yeah, I just feel like I needed to get that off of my chest, and it just admit it publicly. You know, the issue is, I'll keep this quick.

My father ruined Halloween for me at a very young age. And this is not some kind of catastrophic story by any means. But when I was a little kid, we lived in this neighborhood where, there were a bunch of teenagers, and the teenagers would, like, vandalize stuff, right? Like, I remember it being called, like, devil's night. Like, that's what it was when I was, like, a little kid, and I was like, um, and they, like, uh,

Devil's night. Yeah, they would, like, kick down mailboxes and all manner of things. And one year, they threw, like, we had a big glass window on the front of our house and a soccer ball flew through it, right? That's how they got our house. And so, like, from that point on, like, I remember on, When I was a little kid, my dad used to like literally hide in the bushes throughout Halloween. It was like the most stressful night ever.

And I'm a little kid as like traumatizing. I see my dad like hiding in the bushes for waiting for teenagers to come to try to mess up the house so he could like run them down. And so like that was like my first memory. And then even as I got like a little bit older, I don't know if did your parents do this? Like my parents like, I don't know if there was like some kind of story about that. this or something on TV, but they used to, like, check the candy before I ate it, right? They would, like, check it for, like, needles and stuff. And I'm like, who is sticking needles and, like, snicker?

So, so that was awful. And then as I got older, I recall, like, you know, even when I was, like, eight or something like that, I don't know. You know, all my friends were going to be going out for Halloween. And my dad was like, Halloween's for kids. And I'm like, I am a kid. and he would like make he would make me stay inside and then hey and i had to hand out candy to the other kids so it was like all my peers coming to my house and i would have to and i would have to

like hand him candy with your dad hiding in the bushes first of all people throwing stuff through the windows that reminds me of the movie the purge and i feel like you lived in a town that just had the purge that actually existed and that that's the part you didn't know have you seen movie the purge i have not seen the purge you get to check that out you have to see that i'm just so you may it may it may feel like it's halloween at the verno household i know i'm just i'm just see that so maybe it maybe you don't watch it i'm just so resentful of the entire thing honestly i really is hollinois hollews fine with me hollinois's cool i think it's nice that people can dress up and be who they want to be for a night okay let me say this you last week the ring

put out this video, stats under duress, where they hooked you up for anybody that has not seen this video, it's a must see. I think you could get an award for this. So it's stats under duress and they take you on a haunted hay ride in Los Angeles where they're going to ask you questions while you are participating in this haunted hayride. Okay, I got a couple of things out of this that I've got to ask you about, okay? Okay. Number one, Will this be an ongoing series? Like, are they going to, like, you know, like throw you in the middle of the ocean and ask you questions? Are they going to, like, put you, like, on a paintball range and you've got to, like, dodge paintballs or something?

I think this should be a series of you doing stats under duress in different kinds of perilous situations. Trust me, I agree. I mean, I hope it becomes a series. I really do. It was a lot. It was a really fun time, and there's a lot we could do. You can do skydiving. I'm just saying a lot of options.

Skydiving. I don't even know if you could talk while you're skydiving, but it's just something that came to mind. Okay. And number two, we'll get to this quickly. How are you not scared of anything? You, like, laughed at all of the ghouls and goblins and all manner. Like, are you not one that gets scared by stuff? Because you were virtually unafraid of even, like, the shot.

shocking moment. There were sometimes where you were scared to like turn a corner or something, but generally, when somebody would jump out at you, you would laugh. Look, okay, the maze, it's like the movie It, if people saw that this year. The movie had scares in it, but it wasn't really scary, scary. It was just more like there was those shock moments. So that's what it was like going through the maze. And there were a lot of people when they're that worse scared. You can, like, hear people screaming. Like, you can hear people, like,

going through the maze is just screaming their lungs out, right? But the way the people look, I mean, you know behind that mask they're human, not to sound all cold, but, like, you know they're human behind that. And, like, you know they can't touch you or do anything to you. So in that, in that sense, like, it wasn't that scary.

But for me, like, I feel like I'd be more scared on, like, a really, like, I don't know the name of the ride, but, like, those rides with the elevator goes, up and like it drops down, that would scare me more. Where, like, you know stuff is coming in those mazes. Whereas with that, like, you don't know when a stop is coming. Or on some roller coasters, you might not know when the drop is coming. Whatever.

I don't know. Like, that, the unexpectedness of it would be more scary to me. Whereas with this, like, you knew something would be coming. So you are able to keep in the back of your mind that this is not real. I can't do that. I can't do that. Yeah. I was able to.

Yes. I sure to just said to you that nothing scares me, but I think a roller coaster would scare me more, which is probably the opposite. Yeah, but when these guys are like jumping out at you and stuff, you're just like laughing the entire time, and I'm like,

I'm glad it came out that way, but I wasn't going to fake being scared. That's for damn sure. Well, but it was, put it this way. Like, I highly recommend if, like,

you're ever in L.A., that place that Los Angeles haunted hayride, there are people pre-gaming before going into that. Like there were people in the parking lot pre-gaming. Like that place had so many people there. And it was so well done that if you're someone who likes to get scared, you would have the time of your life at that. Because the people in the costumes,

the way they interact with you as you walk through the park. I mean, I've never been to a haunted hayride or a haunted house like that. It was really unlike anything I've seen. It was a really fun time. I don't think I've been to. to like a haunted house since I was like maybe like like probably like 13 or 14. I think that's the last time I went to one and I would get terrified at these things.

And in fact, I recall I went to this thing. I was like really, it was my church youth group, right? So they went to this like haunted house. And there was this there was this girl in my in my youth group. She actually, she was like the preacher's daughter. But she's the kind that would like, you know, your parents would like make you get dressed up to go to church or whatever on Sunday. mornings and like she would show up in like a flannel and she would like have headphones on listening to morrisy or something like she was just like you're like i don't want to say typical but she was

like the most like she was like the rebellious pre like this is all this is all meaningless life is meaningless you know her dad's a preacher he's obviously so ashamed of you know everything that's going on with her anyway and i recall her name was susan and we go to this like haunted house right and we're walking around and this guy like jumps out from around the corner and he's got this chainsaw right and he's like right I mean he just jumps right in our face I'm standing next to her and he's like you're gonna die and I of course I'm like urinating on myself right I'm absolutely terrified um because I'm probably I don't know 13 or 14 the guy's got a frigging chainsaw on my face yelling you're going to die right and I swear

is you, Kevin, with a blank face, she looked at this guy and she goes, everybody dies. It's inevitable. And I like, are you serious? No, at that moment, I was more scared of her than I was like, the guy with the chainsaw. I was like, what in the hell? Have you like ever like looked up on Facebook? Like, what does she do now? Is she like, like, an office manager or something like?

Or does she do something like crazy and extravagant? I have no idea. What is she now? I have no idea. I'm intrigued. I would love to know. Like update us next week. I will, you know what?

I will, I'll call my sister and see if she knows whatever happened to that girl. She was, yeah, yeah, no, she was, she looked,

she looked this guy dead in the face. And that's what she said. Like she was not, she couldn't have been less scared. And she said, and of course, the guy with the chainsaw was like, what the hell?

You know what you like? Right. Everybody dies. It's inevitable. He's probably scared. I know. He was probably scared too. Everybody dies.

It's inevitable. All right. Speaking of scary, and you wrote about this yesterday, you know, I think we're to this moment, and we're only through most teams have played either seven or eight games. Some have played six. I think there's one that's played five. I think the Bulls have played less than everybody. That being said, we are to this moment, even early in the NBA season,

where I feel like we're at a crossroads as to are we going to react slash possibly overreact to what is happening with the Cavaliers? They have taken losses. They have taken bad losses by bad margins. Their defense is clearly been horrific. It's in the bottom three or four in the entire NBA. And then LeBron comes out the other night and says, you know, it's October. And so I did wonder.

Yeah, I did wonder, though, should I heed his advice? And in the end, yeah, this gets us by. Yeah, it is worthy of talking about and they have some issues. But it's October. And if there is anything we have learned or we should have learned over the course of the past seven or eight years, when it's money time, they will be a different team. And when it's money time, LeBron James will be the finals representative from the Eastern Conference. as he has been every other year.

What do you think? So I have a couple thoughts. For one, like the article I wrote yesterday on The Ringer, like everything I really wrote about is stuff that, like, I remember when I was preparing to debate Jonathan Charks and the NBA court TV thing we did for the season preview, like it was really all that stuff, like that I used for that, just putting into the regular season because all the issues that were apparent in the preseason

are still apparent. So it's not necessarily like anything new, if anything, like the concerns have been confirmed, right? So I don't think it's as much as much an overreaction early on as a confirmation of, yes, they do have some actual issues that need to be ironed out. And of course, like you said, Chris, like over the course of the season, they could iron those out because they have LeBron James. Like that is, that is ultimately the answer to every problem they have. And that was essentially Jonathan's argument against me is like they have LeBron. It doesn't matter if they have these weaknesses because they have the most transcendent player in the game. And that's the truth.

But really with the Cleveland Cavaliers and look, LeBron's right to say, you know, it's early. It's only October. Been through this before. You know, I'm not panicking or I'm not going crazy is what he said. He's right. Like there's no reason to go crazy. But I think it's undeniable that this team needs some changes. I mean, they don't have anybody, anybody on that roster who can lock down on the perimeter.

Their shooting is degraded from what it was last season. I just worry about that aspect of their team. Those are two integral parts of success in the Taya's League, perimeter defense and three-point shooting. And right now, like, that's where they're kind of falling short. So can they get that better? I mean, like, how do you feel like is LeBron enough to overcome those issues, Chris? Here's what I'd say. he is the only one on their team that is averaging a steel and a block either you know there's a one next to his name for both of those the fact that you have nobody you have nobody else on your team that is averaging a steel or a block a game that is miserable um number two the thing that i was most uh in line with you on in reading your article was the j crowder thing it is

insanity to me that he is not playing big minutes for that team. You know I am a believer in these type of players in the sense that they are, they can raise the collective energy of the team. They can make a play that gets everybody fired up. I think they have an impact beyond just the box score. I think he is that type of player because it is much like even in your workplace. If there is somebody that is working harder than everybody else, you can either look at that person and you can say, I want to be like them, which is the case in most basketball teams,

or you can just look at them and say, oh, I give up. I'm not, you know, he plays hard. But it makes you feel dumb if one guy is playing way harder than everybody else. And I think Crowder would fall in line with the LeBron thing. And I do think that the only thing that matters to Jay Crowder, is winning. So him not playing big minutes for them is insane to me.

The other thing I will say, and I lived this for a season and a half, and it was to the grand detriment of the Grizzlies. When they attained Jeff Green, there is, there are a coach after coach after coach has been duped by it. They have been duped by the tantalizing talent. There are moments in which he, and I'm not going to say on a every once in a while, a game, he will help you win. But by and large, you have a big sample size now that his team has always,

no matter the team, been worse with him on the court than it is with him off the court. That's true. And that has happened. every year. And he has played with all manner of good players. But I saw a coach fall in love with him too, right? The talent is tantalizing. You want it.

In theory, he is something that really helps you. But I promise you this, Jay Crowder is an infinitely better basketball player and a much better equipped basketball player for you winning games than Jeff Green. So when I look and see they're playing roughly the same, same minutes to me that is a Tyron Liu problem and in fact he is one of the only guys on that team that would really defend so that's where I was most in line with you when I read that I had not realized the low amount of minutes he was getting but that's that's absurd to me so I think I think there's a couple I mean you're those are great points in the sense that like they do need

someone to look the regular season isn't necessarily the most important thing for them they're going to coast, right? But I do think, like, if we're speaking strictly about the regular season, it doesn't help matters that their best player. LeBron James is giving just porous effort on the defensive end of the floor. So if players are, like, following the leader of the team, then LeBron is the guy that they're following, which means that they're not going to be given effort behind him. So nobody should expect LeBron to play full throttle defense the entire season.

That would be ridiculous because he's been to a hundred straight NBA final. He's played over a thousand games every single year, it seems. So it's unfair to expect that from him. So you're right. Like that's where it needs to come from the other guys, like someone like Jay Crotter. I have a lot of thoughts on Crowder. I think he's extremely overrated. But at the same time, he's still good.

I just don't think he's as great as a lot of people make him out to me. But he's very, very good. And he is a guy who does give effort. So him playing only 20 minutes a game just blows my mind. Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing, Kevin. Let me say this. I was thinking like he's going to play 30 plus.

Let me say this on Crowder. Anybody can do this. Go pull the numbers with him on the court versus off the court last year for the Celtics. Like, I mean, it is what it is. This guy had a profound impact on that team. And their ability, both offensively, they were better on both ends of the court with Crowder on the court than they were with him off the court. The other thing is, like, you put those clips up, you know, embedded in the article. and I did think clearly they got a personnel thing, right?

It's not exactly like Kevin Love, Derek Rose, Kyle Corver, and the like are going to be defensive stalwarts. That being said, I did feel in some of those clips, it was 100% effort related. I really did. Like that if you told that. Oh, like the transition defense clips when they're getting beat up the floor. Well, there's one on that and then there's one on a switch on the closeout. And it's like, I just refuse to believe that if the stakes were high, that that's how they would play that. It just looked lazy.

It just looked lazy. They just weren't running, right? And so if the stakes are high, all of a sudden, I think you could probably pull clips from last year when the stakes were high. Like, they focus and they try. I really believe that so much of their, you know, defensive problems, at least in those clips. And let's be honest, okay, you're not getting the points hung on you by Brooklyn and Orlando and the like if you are, if you're busting your ass on that end. They're just not. Some teams, they can bust their ass and their players just stink.

And so it ain't happening. But in their case, I really do feel like it's just not giving a crap. For sure. And that's a big part of it. I mean, Kevin Love spoke about that after Sunday's game where he's like, you know, we just got to give effort. And that's true. I think their transition defense, transition defensive issues can be fixed in two ways.

A, if they actually start scoring the ball at a higher level, they'll be able to have the other team will have to inbound the ball. So as a result, they'll be back on defense, right? That's the first one. And then secondly, yeah, just playing with more effort. You know, when the games matter in the playoffs, they will play with more effort. Really, like, my concern isn't as much the transition.

It's still like the personnel. I mean, they don't have a guy on that team. they can lock down the perimeter. So, I mean, look, they're still the favorite in the East. Let's make that clear. But in order to avoid an early exit, they're going to need to be able to stop guys like Demar de Rosen. They're going to have to stop Kyrie Irving.

They're going to have to stop even a guy like Kemba Walker. And I'm not saying those teams can beat Cleveland because they have LeBron. But the fact is that they don't have anybody who can lock down those players. And I know people are going to say, well, what about Jay Crowder? And Jay Crowder is a good defender. He's good, but he hasn't been great for maybe about a year and a half now. He's definitely not a guy who can lock down high-powered guards like Kyrie or even Kemba Walker. So who isn't on that team?

It's not Dwayne Wade. It's not Emon Schumpert. It's not J.R. Smith. It's not Isaiah Thomas, if he comes back and stays healthy, they don't have a guy. And maybe you don't need that guy to get through the East, but you're certainly going to need that guy to win in the finals. Like if we're looking that far ahead, they need to find that guy somewhere, whether it's through trade or someone, you know, just has like just this resurgence. Dwayne Wade or Derek Rhodes starts depending at a high level or Eamont Shumpert starts playing basketball again. I mean, they, they, Smith and Shumpur has kind of kind of fallen off on the defensive end of the floor.

And Smith will get his shot back. But they need a guy to step up and be a lockdown perimeter defender for them. Because Crowder isn't going to be the guy against guards. He's going to help them against forwards for Damshore. Fords and some wings. But they need a guy who can lock down guards. Yeah, somebody on the perimeter. I would have put the odds at possibly, I don't know, one in a trillion, maybe,

that you could lose Kyrie Irving and end up with three point guards that might be worse defensively. Three. I mean, Derek Rose, Isaiah Thomas, and Jose Calderon? Like, I mean, how is it possible you got worse? defensively at the point guard position and you lost Kyrie Irving. It's crazy. It's funny because Kyrie's been good in Boston. Like he's actually, that's not an exaggeration.

He's actually been good defensively. And the thing is, is like, I always think back to David Irfan at the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference this year, March of February, whenever it was. And he was talking about Kyrie and he said the thing Kyrie needs to understand is in order to like take his game to the next level is he needs to defend the same way he did in the 2016 finals. When he did that, he was like a tremendous two-way player because he was actually giving effort on the defensive end of the floor. And that's what he's done so far this year in Boston. And so like that gets back to your main point. So much of defense's effort. And right now

Cleveland isn't giving effort. I just worry that once they do start giving effort, they're still not going to really have the personnel necessary to elevate to the level they'll need to in order to meet Golden State or even Houston for that matter. So it'll be interesting to see if they make changes over the course of the season because, hey, Eric Bletso's out there. I'm just saying. Eric Bletso is out there, strangely enough. And I know their general manager has said he is not going to be coming back to their team. That's been hanging out there.

I mean, we were speaking on this last week. It had happened now over a week ago, the famous slash infamous tweet that he sent out. And then he was no longer going to be part of that team. now we're still, or still kind of hanging out there. You'd imagine that they will take some kind of a deal at some point to land him somewhere. But I don't know. And again, you know, yeah, it would probably be a good fit. He's a, right?

He's a LeBron guy. And you do wonder if it would be, you know, it could be a great fit for him and for them. But there is nothing to give up. I mean, you want to get some type of future asset if you can for for Bledsoe. Unless you're just trying to, I guess, move the money off and you just take some guys that'll fall off of your books. But, I mean, from all the reports, they wanted some type of a future asset. And that is you don't deal with Cleveland if that's what you're wanting. There's one other layer to this.

And I do think that they will eventually get it together. but I do wonder if it's going to be like a, for a lot of people it's a foregone conclusion that LeBron's going to leave. But you know this. This season, at least at the beginning, and it may carry on throughout, is not going to be intensely fun. You know what I mean?

And I do think that that matters if you're him, right? That this, it's already trying. And as the season goes on, it's a lot more fun if you're, if you're waylaying people, and every night, right? I mean, you're a premier team that's coming to town. Everybody sells out when you come to town.

And then you take care of business. But when you're losing to the Orlando's and the Brooklyn's or whatever else, and I know he's being a leader and saying it's only October, but I do wonder, as this entire season goes on, you know, what level of joy do you have, right, playing on that team with those guys? And I think for most people, even if they do get together, thinking that they would come up short in the end, I just wonder, if you go through 82 games of this and it's like all too often, maybe a couple times a week, you're being asked what's wrong. Like that, at some point, that shit gets old, you know? No, I think it could definitely be, it could be weighing on the team.

I feel like early on it's something they're used to. So maybe now it wouldn't be an issue. but if this continues to be a problem for them heading into December and to January and maybe even into February as we near the trade deadline, that's something that could affect any team. I mean, if the question is, do the cavaliers need a shakeup? I mean, there's not a whole lot that they can do. And this is one of the points I made in my article where it's like that net's asset is probably going to get better. I don't think the nets are going to get any better than they are now in terms of record, that is. So the net's pick might improve, but it's not going to.

going to be like a bottom bottom three team they're not going to be bottom three bottom five for that matter so that asset loses a little bit of value which means like if you do make a major shakeup does that mean like you get to trade kevin love does i mean what what moves are out there even besides kevin love even even if you're a role player if you're jr smith and your names and trade discussions or you're someone like that that can affect team chemistry that can affect your play on the court um so i do wonder if like maybe this season we this is going to get ironed out soon and like Cleveland's going to be rolling because their offense is going to figure things out. Or it could be a year where the conversation that's constantly, do they need

a change in order to win the finals? Because that ultimately is their goal. That's something I believe, it might, again, might have been Kevin Love who said it after the game where he's like, no, it's Dwayne Wade. Dwayne Wade said when you're building towards something, like you need to figure each other out, you need to learn to trust each other. And we're not going to be at our best at the beginning of the season. And you don't want to be at your best then. You want to be at your best at the end. And he's right about that. But in order to be at their best, I do wonder if at some point the conversation is going to be, what changes this Cleveland need to make? How do you feel about that, Chris? I mean, like, is there something that you think that they should do? Or is it just,

just write it out because they get LeBron? I agree with you, especially when you are going to be playing, when you know who you're going to have to be dealing with when the stakes are the highest, that they are going to need a perimeter defender that they can that they can count on um so i believe that the other thing is i do wonder if you overreact and you do you do go for the here and now so let's say that net spick to me i would go well that's too good of an asset like you don't have to give that up to get eric bledso like what's the market for him right now the guy i mean they damn they're sabotaged the thing he's not playing. You know he's not going back to that team. So now it's just, you know, who are you

bidding against? What are they offering? If anything, you know, really good was being offered to them, they would have jumped at it in a heartbeat already, I would suppose. But you do wonder, would the calves overreact? Because they're going, yo, like, here's the reality. We got one year of this for sure. We got one year with LeBron left. And if it don't. It don't. It don't work this year, then it may be that, you know, we may be in a rebuild anyway. So we better, if we forego the future, so be it. But winning a title this year is the best way, if there's any way, to be able to get him to come back and keep plaguing here. And short of that, there's a reasonable chance, maybe even a good chance that we're going to lose him. And so who

the hell cares about our future assets or whatever else. We need to tinker with this because what matters is now. We got Dwayne this year. We got LeBron for this last year. And we, you know, love still has value going forward if we got to move off of him after this year. But to hell with the future, you know, it's go time now. And they will, of course, be as they have been every single year, they will be a massive candidate for anybody that ends up getting waived, cut, etc. As the season goes on, right? They always end up getting a couple extra players because of that.

I don't know if you can necessarily wait on that. And again, they don't have that many assets that I would think are extremely desirable to other teams in order to get what they need. So I don't know. I think maybe, I think, I think, I think, you let it go on a little bit. We don't really know much about the, you know, the way the GM operates, right? I mean, it's new. It's new. It's new.

So. In the meantime, in the Eastern Conference, Orlando and Detroit, they're at the top, baby. They're at the top. Yeah. We're going to take a quick break. We're going to hear from a couple of our sponsors. And when we come back, we're going to talk about surprise teams at the top of the standing. so far at the NBA.

Ringer NBA show brought to you today by Wish. You want to say big, over 300 million smart and thrifty shoppers have discovered Wish, the mobile mall app that connects you to thousands of merchants. Wish makes it easy to shop fashion, shoes, electronics, kitchen gadgets, and more directly from the makers. That way, you pay 60 to 90% less than what you pay in a store. No markups and no overpay. They even have an outlet section complete with products from amazing brands.

like U.S. Polo, Champion, Rangler, Ann Haynes. And if you can't wait for a few weeks for delivery, you'll get lower shipping prices than almost anywhere else. No wonder, it's the number one shopping app on the App Store and Google Play and the highest rated mobile shopping app in the world. Plus basketball fans, you'll be glad to know that Wish is the official mobile shopping partner of the Los Angeles Lakers. Now, for our listeners,

Wish is offering all new users a free gift with the purchase. But dedicated wish lovers, don't worry about being left out. All listeners can get 20% off your purchase by using the code Ringer NBA. Just download and open the Wish app, find things that you didn't even know you needed, and enter the code Ringer NBA for 20% off your purchase. Right before the break, you mentioned Orlando and Detroit at the top of the standings in the Eastern Conference. the Detroit thing is surely surprising, but at least I sit there and go, well, man, they got some good players. And the Avery Bradley thing has worked out in Spades.

And I'm a huge fan of him. And so, I mean, you look around like the, you know, Drummond is, I think, third in the league in rebounding right now. Like I said, they got Avery Bradley. They've added some pieces. They got some decent depth. Like they, they, they underachieved last year, I thought. And so them starting, you know, five and two in their first seven, not that shocking. The Orlando thing absolutely floors me.

It really does. And I think one of the, one of the things we wondered is, okay, I looked at them and I saw them in the preseason. I was like, this, this roster is just a mess. And I was just wrong, right? Like, I mean, Vogle has figured out a way, at least thus far, to get those guys to play together and for it to work. And Aaron Gordon's shooting threes, and most guys that have left the spurs,

we realize that it's the spurs. Like, I mean, hell, they go into witness protection damn near afterward. And you could go on for years, Bellanelli and Gary Neal on the perimeter, Tiago Splitter, Bobon, all manner of guys that have left the Spurs, and then we realized, well, maybe it was just about them being on the Spurs. At least the first sample is that that is not the case with Jonathan Simmons. And I think I was a little surprised that they didn't pay and keep Jonathan Simmons in this offseason, especially if they turned around and they signed Pout, the deal they signed him to,

after they signed Rudy Gay to the deal they signed him to, after they are extending Lamarcus Aldridge. The Simmons thing is a bit surprising to me, especially because I was rather impressed with him in the playoffs. Simmons has been a big deal for Orlando. And so to me,

they are by far the most shocking of them. I'm actually going to see them in person tomorrow night when, unbelievably, the first place Grizzlies played the first place Orlando Magic. I wonder what the odds were for that happening. But I think, look, Orlando is going to be better. They are better than people thought they were going to be. But they're definitely not as great as they've been so far this season.

I just don't think what they're doing is sustainable. They're hitting threes at a league high rate. They're taking a lot of mid-range jumpers, which is in a formula for success. and they're making a lot of those mid-range jumpers at this point so far the season. Defensively, they've been okay. They've had good moments, but they've also had a lot of shaky moments on that end. Look, like I said, they're going to be better.

But I don't think they're going to be a top five seed in the east. They're not going to be that. I mean, they're still going to be kind of on that bubble, seven, eight season. And you know what? Like, that's okay. That's great. That's good. Because if, you know, if you're answering the question and like, I'm writing about this for tomorrow, actually.

I was writing about Orlando before we started this podcast. The question of it, are they for real? You know, it depends on how you view that question. They're real in the sense that they are better than we thought, but they're not going to be this top team. They're not going to keep draining threes like they are now. But they've made improvements. Like you said, Aaron Gordon's been better.

He made some tweaks to his shooting mechanics that are, I think, sustainable for him in terms of he's not going to be a below 30% three-point shooter. He's going to be better. Vucevic, I think, successfully extended his range. He's always been a pretty good mid-range jump shooter. Now he stepped back to three. Jonathan Simmons has been just unbelievable off their bench. Again, he's not going to continue shooting 59% from three, but hopefully, you know, he keeps bringing in the defensive intensity. Hopefully he keeps pushing the ball offensively doing what he's doing. As long as he shoots like 34, 35% from three, you're happy because of everything else he does. So they're getting contributions

from Guy. Jonathan and Isaac's been good off the bench as a rookie. They're going to be better. And maybe they'll compete for the seventh or eight seed, but they're going to fall off soon enough. You wonder what that number, what that number is going to end up, because to your point about, I mean, they have been shooting fireballs since the season began. Fornier, it would not be surprising if he is a really good three-point shooter this year, but he's not going to shoot 56%. Okay. The shocking ones are the next two guys are Aaron Gordon and Nikolaevusovich, who so far this year have taken four and a half a game each,

and Gordon is shooting 59%, and Boosevic is shooting 41% from three, and he's taking them. I mean, Gordon is the sneaky one. He was not, I think, on a lot of people's radars as to a possible most improved candidate, But I'm kind of believer in the first seven games, not in the numbers maintaining themselves in terms of percentages. But so far, he's averaged 20 points and nine rebounds in 30 minutes a game. And I think if we looked up at the end of the season and people think, wow, Aaron Gordon really took a leap. That wouldn't be that shocking to me.

But what is shocking is I would have never suspected that both of those are shooting, you know, four and a half threes a game and hitting at an extraordinary. clip. Even for seven games, I wouldn't think they could do that, right? I mean, that just hasn't, that hasn't been their M.O. So I guess we'll see what their number ends up at the end of the year, but both of them have clearly become weapons with that shot. They are willing to take it. And so far, they've made it. Aaron Gordon is a guy that I loved in the 2014 draft. And, you know, for the past three years or so, I've felt like, oh, you know, I was, I was wrong. You know, I was wrong on him. Like, I, I, I overrated the possibility of him improving as a jump shooter in order to open up the rest of his game. And a lot of people felt the same way I did about him.

And this season so far, we're seeing those flashes. I mean, he had that 40-point explosion. But put even put that game aside. Like, forget the 41 points he scored against the Nets. He's still been really good on the offensive end of the floor. He's still, he's forcing things a little bit. And that's kind of a problem. I'm kind of monitoring with Orlando.

there seems to be some clashing at times between Fournier and Gordon. And that's something worth monitoring in terms of the ball movement. It's continuing to be unselfish over the course of the season. But Gordon individually has been just really, really good. 17 points and only 18 minutes on Monday. 17 points again on Sunday. He's been steady, right? And then he's had the explosive game.

So if they continue getting that steady production from him, that's encouraging. That's another step forward for a guy who's still only 22 years old. Yeah, because in fairness, I watched them in the preseason and I thought, you remember, I told you, I was like, if you line them up on a wall, I guess I'd take Jonathan Isaac. Like, I just don't get it. But these guys have wildly outperformed what my expectations were.

At least, again, it's seven games, right? If that team lost six in a row, it wouldn't surprise anybody, right? But so far, they have been way better. than I perceived them to be, even this early. The next thing is Detroit. And I don't, again, I don't think they're going to play at this rate, but they're not as shocking to me that that Bradley thing has worked out and that they've been good.

Clearly, you would not have suspected that they would win the game in Golden State. But I guess Aver Bradley's the warrior killer, huh? This guy, I think he's 3 and 0. I think he's 3 and 0 in his last 3 that are there. But anyways, Detroit, they're 5 and 2. They're there at the top of the standings. They've got, you know, their two losses. They lost a four-point game at Washington.

They lost that game at Philly by double digits. But these last three wins, you know, Minnesota, at the Clippers, at Golden State. That's pretty impressive stuff. For sure. And I think, you know, they're a team that has much better depth than last season, with the guy adding a guy like Avery Bradley, but it's not just the additions though. I mean, it's the internal improvement.

Like Tobias Harris, again, it's the same question with Aaron Gordon. Will he sustain what he's doing so far this season? No, he's not going to continue shooting 46% from three. But if the improvements that he has maybe appeared to make early on the season continue, that's huge for them. If Andre Drummond continues shooting as well as he is from the free throw line, that's big for them. Reggie Jackson is playing better than he has the past couple years in the

Troy. So not only like that they make the addition with Avery Bradley and Lansing Galloway, but they've gotten some internal improvements as well. So I think they're going to be right in the playoff conversation again as then as like a six, seven, eight seed team. But it's like the same thing with Orlando where this start like is a little bit extreme. But what they've done so far is certainly encouraging. And like you mentioned Avery Bradley,

I mean, that guy is just unbelievable on defense. Watching him the other night against Golden State, all game, really, he is just a joy to watch on the defensive end of the floor. There's not a lot of guys that I can think of that just play with that full throttle, high intensity on the defensive end of the floor of a defensive end of the floor from start to finish. Yeah, and you know the other thing that has stood out to me, and I guess we'll see as the season goes on. I think that Bradley has had a profound impact on Jackson. Because I think Jackson is ill-suited to just be the guy with the ball in his hands all the time and conducting everything. And if you think back, because I know people got, like his stock got super low, Reggie Jackson. I was a fan of his after he left Oklahoma City.

but even then he was a guy that yeah he could have the ball in his hands with the second unit with them but he they also played him alongside westbrook to to good success and you think about his time in Detroit he has never played with another really good guard and I think having bradley alongside of him has helped him a tremendous amount because they're I mean Reggie Jackson looks the best at least again we're early but he looks the best he's look since he has been in Detroit. And I think a good part of that. I don't want to act like, you know, Aver Bradley invented the son and give him credit for everything. But I believe in that. I believe in him. Wait, didn't.

I believe in playing alongside Bradley is really helping him, you know? For sure. You know, hey, and you know what? It helps. I wonder, you know what it made me think of when I was thinking about this? I wonder what Thomas will look like. Because then I start falling down this hole, right? And I think, wow.

Are you talking about Isaiah Thomas? Yeah, I just wonder how much it helped me. That's what I'm saying. I wonder how much it helped him having Bradley alongside him. Not a lot because he was still pretty bad. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm talking about offensively because, offensively, because. Oh, okay.

I mean, if you're Reggie Jackson, I don't think, I don't think Reggie Jackson should be. You met on defense. Oh, stop. Come on, stop. I don't think Reggie Jackson should be just like running everything and controlling the game all the time anyway. Yeah. And you can also pay extra attention to him because he has not played alongside anybody worth a crap. So that's what I'm saying.

Yeah. And you know, and Avery Bradley helps a guy like Andre Drummond, too. I mean, anytime you have an elite guard defender on the perimeter, I think it can help steer guys on the perimeter into a more preferable position. for your big man protecting the room. And Drummond is playing with an increased effort early on the season, too. So that's another thing. I mean, he said he had a deviated septum that he had surgery on and that's fixed things. I don't know, I don't know how much I actually buy that, honestly.

I mean, I can only speak for myself. I had a deviated septum years ago and I don't feel like my breathing changed much at all after getting that done. Maybe Drummond had a much better experience than I did. But it seems that he's at least giving effort, whether it's because the surgery he had or not. He's giving better effort, and he has much better guards in the perimeter as well, which are just helping, I think, contain scores. Yeah. And I think the other thing with Drummond so far that you wonder how much it will sustain itself throughout the season,

70% from the free throw line is just outrageous. It's outrageous. Would you put, would you, would you, would you bet that he is above, over or under 70% at the end. No, I'm not going to say 70. Let's say over under 62%. Over under, you said 70 to start off. Is he over under 60%?

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Let me, let me give some background here. So Haley O'Shaughness, he wrote a great article a couple of weeks back on the ringer about Drummond's free throw shooting and how like some of the changes have been mental and how in the past maybe he, maybe some people on the team. said he didn't necessarily work as hard as he could have at it.

Contavius Caldwell Pope had a quote about that, his former shooting coach did as well. But this summer, Drummond's, and I followed up like the following week with an article blurb about this on the ringer, like he's changed his shooting mechanics. And I think, and I hope that these changes are for real. So he shot 38.6% last year, 35.5% the year before. He's a career 38.4% free throw shooter. And I'm setting the over under at 62. Would you take the over or the under?

Under. He's shot over 40%. So you don't buy it at all. No, no, I don't buy 60%. This guy has shot over 40% once in his career. Where did you set the over under for his free throw shooting? 55. That's fair.

That's probably a much better amount. that's why I'm not the guy set in the odds Can he hit, can he hit half of them? Right? I think that's a fair right? Because that's, then we're a little That's fair. Hey, because to me, then we're dead in between. He's shooting 70 so far. He's typically a 40 or high 30s guy.

So now we just split the difference. And we say 55% right. That's where that number came from. That's fair. I'm taking me over. I'm going over. Oh, he's a believer. I'm going over.

Well, listen, that would be a massive weapon. and if you can keep him on the court, especially in tight games, right? Because he, much like DeAndre Jordan, a Western Conference counterpart, they are virtually impossible to play with the game on the line down the stretch because, you know, same way with those two guys, playing them with the game on the line can be a real demerit on their team's chances. All right, so those are the big surprises. The other one is, I think we all suspected,

that Janus could get better. But 35 points a game? I mean, that is just, even through this amount of games, that is a huge number that he is averaging so far. 35 points a game. And then the third leading score in the NBA thus far is Chris Tapp's Porzengis, who is averaging 29 a game.

The Knicks won again last night. These two particular players, both still extremely young players, through the first couple weeks of the season have just been out of their minds, Kevin. It's just so beautiful. It's so beautiful. I love watching these young players blossom. I was thinking to myself last night, I said this in our Slack at the Ringer.

I was like, I love the NBA. Like, I love watching these young players just blossom into stars. And it goes beyond, you know, Janus and Chris Daps Porzingis. It's guys like OG and Anobi looking really good for Toronto. It's guys like that, like that fell in the first round that are just looking so good. And that's just so fun to watch. I mean, we're at a time really in the NBA where it seems like a lot of our older players are kind of either they've retired already guys like Kobe or they're really close to the end, a guy like Dirk. And a lot of these young guys are starting to just grow into who they're going to be.

right at the perfect time. And it's just exciting. That's the only way I know how to put it where I'm just excited to watch these young guys. Watching Chris Staps do what he did last night. Just unbelievable, man. Like, did you see that? Chris? Like, isn't that, isn't that like every fantasy, you know, a Knicks fan?

Isn't that a fantasy fulfilled for a Knicks fan just to see him do that in the post-Mellow era? Oh, my God. You know, it's crazy. I actually happened to have on while I was getting stuff together this morning. I had on Sports Center. on a TV in the house and they ran the Knicks highlights and they ran the Sixers highlights back to back, right? So they're in one fell swoop. I saw the Chris Dap's highlights and then they show Ben Simmons who at one point against the Rockets gets the ball and beat I believe gets the

rebound. He passed off the Simmons. This guy, he flies down. I mean, he is 611 also. 94 feet, Kevin, and then he just crams one. And poor PJ Tucker couldn't keep up. By the way, haven't heard a lot of PJ Tucker talk since night number one in the NBA. I got a lot of slander that night. Oh, how are you like PJ Tucker? How do all you idiots? Hey, how do all you idiots like him now?

Go watch the highlight of Ben Simmons driving past him. PJ Tucker, he's shooting 30% from the frigging field. Get off of me. after the after the golden after the golden state game people are like hey what do you think about PJ Tucker and embal Moody now what do you think about them now

what do you think about them now go watch him I'm up I'm loving your clapback yeah let me give it a week Tucker fans out there yeah give it a day they all watch oh my god

they watch one game they watched a warrior game and then they sat there and they were like oh yeah Chris how do you like PJ Tucker now but I thought PJ Tucker was fat I thought PJ Tucker was fat. He is.

Watch the games. The guy can't keep up with anybody. Defensive stalwart. Ben Simmons ran right past him and dunked on his damn head. And then, and, uh, and he's shooting 30% from the frigging field. Enough already. And Baamutei. Oh, man.

He's, he's killing it too. I saw him at the league leaders on everything. But by the way, PJ Tucker loves Halloween, by the way, Chris. I'm sure. He loves Halloween. Favorite holiday. Favorite holiday. Ben Simmons has been unbelievable.

by the way. Like, let's just, you know, absolutely. No, so my day, but outstanding. Before the attention deficit took over,

my original point was, watching those two highlights back to back. And one of those kids is seven two or seven three. And the next one is like, damn near seven foot. He's six eleven. And you see them with the ball and what they're able to. It's like,

it's just, I mean, I don't know, man. It's like, it's like something from the future. It really is. I guess the future is now. And the same thing with Yonis, by the way.

This was Hinky's dream. Yeah, by the same thing with Yonis, by the way. And so far this season, just to put this in perspective, the greatest PER season, player efficiency rating season that has ever taken place is Wilk Chamberlain in 1962, 63, okay? He had a 31.82 PER. He holds the top two. Then there's a Jordan season.

Then there's a LeBron season. Then there's a Jordan season. Then there's a Wilts Chamberlain season. Then there's a LeBron season. I mean, outside of those three, the highest one ever is Curry's in 1516. And he's the only guy in the top 10 in P.E.R seasons that is not named Chamberlain, Jordan, or James. Okay. So I told you that the-

Wait, who is this in the top 10? The only one? Chamberlain, Jordan, James. And then the only one that is not named Chamberlain, Jordan, or James. is Curry and his 15-16 season. Okay. Okay. So outside, the highest number ever recorded is 31.82 for a season.

As we know, P.E.R, the, you know, the general line for league average is 15. Okay. So if you're having a season below 15, you're not, you're not doing so well. And then anything over 15 is usually pretty good. And then it can border on great, especially once you get into the 20s. Okay. 31.82 for Chamberlain. So far this season,

Janus, his P.E.R. is 36.47, Kevin. Dang. With a 32 usage. He is in the top 10 in the NBA and usage rate. So not, like, he is by far the most efficient player and at least through this amount of games, has played basketball at a more efficient manner

than anyone in the history of the game had over the course of 82 games, which we'll see at the end. But he's also, not only is he that efficient, he's doing it while also being one of the top 10 guys in the league in usage, which is just, I mean, he's out of his mind, absolutely out of his mind. Dang, dude. I know, crazy. I mean, like, you know, you can look at even,

even his other advanced, one of the other key advanced metrics, box plus minus, it's 12.6. That's an outrageously high number. If you're looking at the single number statistics and like, if, like, if you're someone that's like, who cares about the advanced numbers? Who cares? It's irrelevant. If you, if you, if you're someone who's like that, fine. I mean, the fact is, like, even his counting stats are just unreal at this point in

the season, 34.7 points per game, 10.7 rebounds. and he's just scoring at will getting to the paint, whether he's handling the ball himself or teammates or getting him getting the ball at the rim. He's getting, he's doing this despite still not being a great three-point shooter. He's made a third of his shots so far this season on two shots per game. So it's funny, like we're talking about Janus as a potential most valuable player

at age 22 right now. He'll be, he'll turn 23 in December. And yet he can still get so much better if that shot gets to like 37%. If he gets to 38%, like just above average, if he gets to that point, whoa. Yeah. I mean, what does he become men? Is that, I don't want to say like, look, there's at least potential, at least potential that he could become like a top 50 all-time NBA player. I don't think that's outrageous to say at all.

I mean, the potential is obvious, isn't it? And then if he adds a jumper on top of that, I'm just saying, like, he, this guy truly is the limit with Janus Hentinacupo. And that's a, that's a phrase that's said for a lot of guys, but it truly is for him if he adds that jumper, because that's really the final piece of the puzzle. I don't think that that is crazy at all. Again, we've got to let a play out. Thank you.

You never know, you never know how injury can derail. Like, you know, it's totally possible. For sure. Grant Hill or Penny Hardaway could have been one of the top 50 players in the history of the NBA. That's true for anybody. Yeah. Like that's always the variable. Well, yeah, but that's true.

But we know that in those cases, in the case of Penny Hardaway, in the case of Grant Hill, it stands to reason at the time when they were young, we could have foreseen a situation where they were top 50, maybe even 25 players to ever walk the face of the earth. There are not a lot of those guys, though, that we see. say that and we say, wow, if they wouldn't have gotten injured, that could have been the case. He, and again, let's pray to God, he never has to sustain any type of injury or injury problems. I think it is totally fair.

He is 22. And as of today, he is the best player in the NBA, as of today, right? If we're talking about this season. And yeah, it's probably not going to be as good as it's been so far, but it ain't going to be that far off. And there are, I mean, a ton of great players in the league right now. And he's right there at the very top. Yeah. I mean, my God, this guy, your prime year might be five years from now.

What in the flying F is he going to do in five years? I mean. Oh, my God. I mean, what? When you're 27, you could theoretically, I mean, hell, a lot of guys had their best season when they're like 30 or 31. one even, you know? I mean, nine years from now? What the crap?

I know we'll have a lot of miles on him, but I can't, I can't even fathom what he could look like in eight years. And then he's just 30. 30 is like, I mean, you're still young. Still young. Yes. Yes. All right.

I would be remiss. I at least have to mention that the first place team in the Western Conference is the Memphis grislies. The Grizzlies. It may not happen on the NBA show again, especially after having to play the juggernaut Orlando Magic tomorrow night. They're going to get smoked. You know, I saw Charlotte in person last night.

I thought they were pretty good. Yeah. I really did. I thought they were pretty good. Yeah, they're solid. Definitely. They're a playoff team. And they gave Orlando some trouble, too.

Yeah, their playoff team. And I, uh, I could see Kemba getting you some playoff wins when it comes playoff time, you know? I think, you know, Clifford's obviously gotten, he did not play well last night, but he's gotten good numbers out of Dwight so far. You know, and their construct, I could, the other one is a monk. At the end of the season, I could see him having some big games. I think he's a guy that when we look up in, you know, mark my words, February and March, you're going to catch a couple of really big monk games. He's still figuring it out, but, you know, shooting, shooting, man.

And this guy, this guy can really shoot the ball. And he's the forgotten one. Wouldn't you say he's kind of the forgotten of the rookies? I mean, these rookies have just been so amazing. Oh, for sure. For sure. I hadn't even heard his name so far. Yeah, and he's also on a good team.

Except for that highlight or that low light where he threw the ball off the backboard and then got blocked by Aaron Gordon. Like, that's about the only time, like you've seen monks name mentioned, which is whatever. But he's explosive. I actually think he's in a great spot for development, too, because he's getting minutes while playing on a good team in a winning situation. Because most of these guys are, you know, they're on losing teams. They're going to put up their numbers, but they're losing, night in, night out.

Lonzo Ball is losing a lot or Will. Jackson at Phoenix, you know, who knows about Fultz if we ever get to see him again this year. Hope so. Hopefully. That's so weird, by the way. the Fultz thing is just weird. And I know Raymond, the agent, he represents a bunch of guys,

Ben Gordon, but he also represented Zach Randolph and Tony Allen. But I've known Raymond for a long time, and so when I saw that come out about the Fultz thing, I was just like, what in the world is going on here? I don't understand any of this. It's one of the weirdest stories I think we've had. I mean, like with everything that's happened

of the Sixers, the past couple of years, and Bid being out. When is Sarge's going to come over? Simmons, you know, missing the entire season, the Okafore fiasco, everything off the court and his struggles on the court. I mean, this is just, this exceeds all of that. Yeah. All of it.

I mean, in terms of the weirdness scale. Oh, you know what? And this is a 10 out of 10. And you didn't even mention Noel, which they got crap returned for. Yeah. Yeah, Nerlin's Noel too. I saw, I saw him. I saw him in person for the first time last week,

and he should have taken that $70 million, Kav. He should have taken it. I don't think it's going to be there. I really don't. I do nothing is going to be there this off-season. It won't be. It's not going to be there. I know.

It's 100% not going to be there. Why did he not take that deal? God. I feel. Bad advice, man. I don't know. I feel bad for guys like that. I watch him, and I'm like, bro, you ain't get, you had,

you had one. one cracket to get that 70 million. That ain't happening. I know. It is sad. Because, I mean, that team's going to lose, you know, maybe 60 games. They're terrible. They're really bad.

I know. Like, we talked about rookies. Like, Dennis Smith is, like, one of the only bright spots on that team. Like, there's a point, I believe it might have been Jason Gallagher from the ringer tweeted this the other night, where he's like, I can't believe I'm saying this. But Nerlins, Noel should have been on the floor at the end of the game instead of Dirk. and like that's like a scary thought for a Mavs fan to actually be feeling that way because Dirk just is not like the same

close to the same as he even did last season never mind his prime forget that I mean he doesn't even look as good as he did last season and hopefully he figures it out hopefully he's just kind of you know working off the rust from a long summer no and he does get back closer to what he was but man no I don't know

that's not the case he'll be able to hit that one footer and that you know they'll get the switch on the guard and he will be a during the business will be able to do that until he's 75 years old. Okay. It's all the other stuff. And he is so likable that it will not get the pummeling that it did in Los Angeles.

But it was reminiscent to me of the Kobe thing. It really was. It was like we're doing right by this guy as we're at the tail end of, you know, of the career. we're doing right by this guy but it is the best thing for a franchise to do is to put an eye towards the future

and it it stalls that a little bit right for the sake of the legacy player now he is still probably better than Kobe was that last go round and certainly more of a team and he's more of a team basketball player but

I do think that it you know it does It does handcuff you a little bit, right? Because that's a team that should be saying what's the next, what's happening post-Dirk era? And that era is just now coming to the end. Well, if he can score 60 in this final game, forget about the rest of it. I mean, when Kobe did that, like that.

That is exactly. That was still the most exciting thing. No, that is exactly what happened with Kobe, though. Yeah. That was still remarkable. That actually happened. And I will say this. For Dirk's credit, unlike, unlike Kobe games that I went to his last season,

Dirk did not have a personal film crew following him around. So that was good. I was appreciative of that. And I think Dirk can still play longer. It's just not. Has that film been dropped yet? Did Kobe drop that yet? I don't think so.

I feel like I would have remembered seeing that. I mean, I don't know if anybody, I don't know for other people that are that are unaware of this. If you went to a game that last year, even on the road, Kobe paid for and had a traveling film crew. My buddy, I didn't know what the hell was going on. And my buddy Ramona Shelburne from ESPN was sitting next to me at a game. And I says, Ramona, I said, what is going on? What the hell is going on? Because it's in between a timeout, Kev.

These guys run out with these, like, boom mics and these big lights and all this crap, like onto the court. and I'm like, like a movie is being filmed, but we're in the middle of a game. And Kobe's like staging this like, you know, he's talking to like Danny Crawford and Zach Zarber, whoever, like a couple of these referees. And I guess just like, how are the kids, you know, all this crap? And so they're like staging like he's just chummy

and talking to the reps or something in the middle of a game. But there's like for real like boom mics and lights and everything, like a scene of a movie is being filmed. And I says to Ramon, I said, What is going on? And she said he has, he has a film crew that travels with him the entire season everywhere. I'm like,

how is this shit happening? Like, this is just, what? Like, we're just stopping the game to have that damn movie scene be filmed? I mean, it wasn't stopping the game,

but it was during a timeout. So at least Dirk doesn't have a traveling movie crew with him. I'll give him that. Hiring a photographer for the day would be expensive enough, never mind a film crew for entire basketball season. The entire season, Kevin. It's crazy. Crazy.

Crazy. I've never seen anything like it. I don't think I ever will. Nobody will ever do that. I mean, that's just... I mean, but nobody has a muse cage either. Kobe's got a muse cage. It is the most narcissistic thing you can possibly do.

It's not like somebody else is doing it. I would even give you a little leeway if, like, HBO said, hey, can we follow you around for the whole season? But when it comes out of your pocket, you know what I mean? Like, come on, man. Yeah, you know, it is. At the same time, I mean, like, it is narcissistic,

but at the same time, like, he knows who he is. And I think, I think chronicling your career, a defining moments, you know, your final season, after spending your entire career with the Lakers, it's something like that, you want to be captured. Not just for yourself, but also for the fans of the Lakers that are going to come in the future.

You know, your own family, your grandkids and your great grandkids. I mean, the more I'm talking about, the more I'm thinking, yeah, that's super narcissistic.

But at the same time, it's a good thing for the rest of the world that's being chronicled. You know what I mean? Just because it's such a great player. I guess it's just going to all be fake. Yeah, I know. Most, maybe a lot of it.

But then again, what isn't fake? You, you doing stats under duress, that's not fake. That was pretty real. Yeah, that was true. That was real. You know, most people are the funny. Yeah, I think when most people describe Kevin O'Connor, they say, is real as the streets. That's typically what follows.

I hope so. I've thought of you authentic. I met too many phony people in this world. Understood. Kevin, enjoy your Halloween tonight, and I'll talk to you next week. You too, Chris. I hope this Halloween is the best one you've ever had in your life. And I hope next year when we do this, like you're loving Halloween.

And you're like, you're all about it just like PJ Tucker. I hope so too. It's going to do it for another Ringer NBA show. Thanks for checking us out. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating interview on iTunes. And we will talk to you next week. Ringer NBA show today brought to you by Wish, want to say big or 300 million smart and thrifty shoppers.

discovered Wish, the mobile mall app that makes it easy to shop fashion, shoes, electronics, and more directly from the makers. That way, you pay 60 to 90% less than what you pay in the store. For our listeners, Wish is offering all new users a free gift with a purchase. But dedicated Wish lovers, don't worry about being left out. All listeners can download and open the Wish app, find things you didn't even know you needed, and enter the code Ringer NBA for 20% off your purchase.