The Ringer NBA Show - Trying to Understand the Luka Doncic Trade Three Days Later | Real Ones

Episode Date: February 4, 2025

Logan, Raja, and Howard are still trying to process the trade that shocked the world. Where were the guys when they found out, and how shocked were they (1:42)? Just how concerned were the Mavs about Luka behind the scenes to warrant the trade (14:59)? How should LeBron feel about the move (40:36)? What can the Warriors do at the deadline to put a championship-contending team around Steph (52:17)? The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hit the mailbag!: [e-mail] Get your tickets to the live show at Punch Line San Francisco on February 15 here: https://www.universe.com/events/the-ringer-nba-show-real-ones-live-tickets-9NVPKF Hosts: Logan Murdock, Howard Beck, and Raja Bell Producer: Clifford Augustin Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping, everybody? Logan Murdoch here from Real On the Ringer NBA show, and I want to invite you to pull up and kick it with Roger Bell, Howard Beck, and myself during All-Star weekend for our live podcast. We're going to be at the Stork Punchline Comedy Club in San Francisco on Saturday, February 15th at 2 p.m. pre-giving all the All-Star festivities, and you never know who might stop by. Get your tickets now by heading over to ringer.com backslash for Vince. That's ringer.com backslash events. to see you there. It's Bobbin,

Rillan, Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there, Howard Beck in the Cut, cliff on the boards. Man, there's, like there are some stories

that come out over the weekend that I'm just like, I can't wait to get into the lab and talk, right? And this was one of those rare stories. I'm talking about the Luca Dantza straight to the Lakers. I'm trying to build this up,

but like, let's just get to the shits, right? Like, but it was a buildup. I remember putting it in the chat and you know it's a deal when Raja is like, yo, what the fuck is going on?

Raja woke up and was like, I woke up to this shit? What the hell is going on? This was crazy, right? Crazy. We'll get to the press conference that happened to today. Full transparency. We're recording this a little later than we usually do so we can accommodate the Luka Dantz's press conference.

We're going to talk a little Luca. I'm going to talk a little warriors. We're going to get a little mailbag. Then we're going to get to the shits. But first off, before we get to anything, the streets want to know. I'm going to start with Raja. Then we get to Howard. Then we get to myself.

What were your reactions to the trade? What the hell? What were you thinking? Did you think whether there was a hack? Roger, what were your, where were you? Take us through the journey of seeing this. Yeah, I think. Yeah, I don't really remember.

Was it Saturday morning? Was that Sunday or Saturday? Sunday or Saturday? It was Sunday night? I don't know. What was it? It was Saturday night because that was when the Knicks were playing the Lakers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I didn't get upset. My younger boy had a, had like a, 8 a.m. damn game on Sunday morning, which is ridiculous for like travel basketball. Are you serious? Ridiculous, dude. How far from your place, bro? Ridiculous. 30 minutes away. Just absurd. Jesus. So, so I slept in because I had taken him the day before. So I slept in with, with our, with our daughter, and sin took him. So I got the late start that morning, flipped on the TV, and, and there it was. And that's how I got my day started. And what was going through my head, I don't know that I could articulate it. I was all over the place. I thought it was,

excuse me, at first I thought it was a joke. I was like, there's no way, there's no way this is possible. Then I went down all the rabbit holes of what that meant for, for the organizations, what it meant for the players involved, you know, all the different avenues that everyone has been down over the last few days. Like, that's where my head was. But honestly, I thought, I thought it was a, I thought it was a joke at first. And then, you know, upon sitting around during the day, I just kept saying, like, this is the, this is the craziest trade I think I've ever seen in, in, probably in my, in my lifetime. Like, and not, not, not, I don't mean crazy in terms of good or bad. I mean, just something I did not see coming. It's Tuesday afternoon and I'm still

in shock. So, let's just start there. I mean, I woke up Sunday morning. I was out when this happened, like passed out, like asleep. So, but I woke up with like a zillion text, including like from my daughter, who's off at college going, what the hell? And guys, this has been like three days. I still, I've reported on this. I've made calls about this. I've texted people about this. I've had a gazillion conversations as I'm sure we all have about this. Still doesn't make sense. Still shocking. Still bizarre. still might be years, if ever, that we fully understand what the hell just happened. And frankly, and I'm going to say this throughout the show today probably, and I'll be saying this possibly for days, weeks, months, years to come.

Something's missing. There's just something missing. Like, maybe it's just versions of the stuff we already know. maybe it's just the more extreme version of the stuff we already hear, the rumblings out of Dallas about Luca and conditioning, commitment, all this of the stuff. But like, I'm sorry. It still doesn't make a damn lick of sense. So there's that. Yeah.

I mean, clearly, clearly that you don't know the tip of the iceberg or we don't know the tip of the iceberg of what was taking place of down. We clearly don't understand the scope of the beefs, disappointments. Whatever verb did you want to use to describe what was going on there, we have no idea the depths of which it was taking place. Like that is clear. Yeah, that is clear. For them to initiate the talks, for NICO to initiate the talks,

I don't know Luca and I don't know anyone there so let me start by saying all of that but when an organization decides to do that we have no understanding we don't understand the scope of the problems that they were dealing or they thought they were dealing there are so many like layers to this I want to I'm glad you brought up the the origin at least for what we know of the trade I'm glad you brought that up Raj we'll get to all the other things that are but let's start with the origin of the which was the Lakers were in town. Nico Harrison goes to the Lakers team hotel and they just have coffee, right?

Like they are friends. They were both, Nico was a Nike rep. That's why Roger knows him and is good with him. Rob Polinka represented Kobe and Nico Harrison was on Kobe's account. So they definitely, like, they had a rapport. They let them tell that they were friends. So, like, it was, I'm assuming this started off as, like, a very innocent, like, yo, it's, we're two GMs, but we know each other. Let's just get some coffee. You're in town, right? And then all of a sudden, like, they're, you know, they're talking. They're doing the dance of a talk. And then all of a sudden, Nico just says, yeah, I'm going to trade, I'm willing to trade Luca Janschitz. And let's, let's just stop there. Like, Howard, how would. president of this is that. Like, from one side, right, you don't just say that. That's, that's,

that's, that's, that's a top three player in the league. And I feel like I've had this conversation with so many different people, like, just trying to make sense of it myself, right? I think that's just going to be an exercise that we do throughout this podcast. It's just like figuring out like, how the hell this got here. It's still being confused. But, so can you, Howard, can you peel back the layers from this on a Dallas point of view? view where, okay, they have a new ownership group. Mark Cuban doesn't own the team because if he did own the team, Luca would still be a Dallas Maverick at this point. You peel back the layers of like how a deal like this gets done because this has never, I don't feel like this, I can't

imagine this has happened before ever. And I don't think it's ever going to happen again. At least I don't think so. But like, how does this, how do we get from a coffee to like we're trading Luca Donchich, a top three player in the league. That was either some really, really great coffee or some really, really fucked up coffee. I don't know what was in that coffee. Or both. I want to find out where they had this coffee. I don't ever want to go there lest I walk out of there having given away my wife,

daughter, two cats, and our condo. Like, I, I mean, Logan, I don't even know where to begin with this. But let's start with Cuban for a second because when I was making. calls over the on Sunday to write a story about how the rest of the league was reacting to this and what you know the premise of the piece which is on the ringer.com right now was basically just like what other GMs thought of this but also what they thought the maps could have gotten if they'd actually shop Luca instead of having a one-way conversation with only one team about a 32-year-old star um one of the things that people kept telling me was listen for sure

this does not happen if Cuban still owns the team but on top of that there was a there was an extra layer that I don't think has been talked about much. And I put this out there as lightly and respectfully as I can, because I don't mean to impugn Nico or the rest of that front office. There's a lot of smart people there. But Dennis Lindsay was part of that front office during the period of time when they made a lot of the moves that helped get them to the finals last year. I'm not saying that Dennis Lindsay is solely responsible for that. But other people in the league, other front office people are telling me, listen, don't underestimate the absence of Dennis Lindsay, who's now in the Pistons front office.

You know, Nico's been doing this for a few years, but this is still the first GM job he's ever had. And, you know, like I say, far be it for me to say that one person, and, you know, Dennis Lindsay's a vet, better in the league a long time, worked in multiple front offices. So take that for what it's worth. But that is something that other people around the league mentioned from others. In terms of the actual, like, deal Logan, yes, unprecedented. It yes, again, shocking beyond belief. No, there is no comparison for this. And the thing is,

when you have a Luca in his prime, 25 years old, or when Janus was at a similar age, LeBron's at a similar age, Kobe, Shaq, anybody you could think of in the last 25, 30, 40 years, however long you want to go back, players of that caliber at that age, if healthy, are just not available. Like those are the kind of things where you spitball something where it's like, hey, listen, I know you probably wouldn't do this, but any chance we could get Luca? Any chance we get? No, hang up. Like, those are the kinds of like spitball conversations that sometimes happen between GMs or between GMs and even media when we're talking about like, do you think they would do this. And you know like 99,000 times out of whatever.

The Lakers offered Kobe for LeBron and the Cavs. said no. Listen, there was a lot. Kobe's a weird outlier in this partially, Logan, because there was a lot of weird Kobe shit back in the day where, you know, various times when the Lakers kicked around, do we need to break up Shaq and Kobe. Then when they shipped out Shaq and kept Kobe, then Kobe had his meltdown a few years later because things were not going well and

Raja forearmed him and all that stuff. But it was just during that period of time, it was the, you know, whatever, get buying him out of here, all this. There were various versions of this, but the Lakers, the fact is they never did trade Kobe. No, but the point of any of those. All I'm saying is, though, like, it didn't work out, right? That's what should normally happen is what I'm saying. Right. Right.

And listen, if you wanted to make the case at various stages that Kobe was too big of a pain in the butt, that you could have made that case. You could have justified, rationalized sending him out for, I think there was a proposal like Sean Marion and Jason Kidd at one point, that version of the sons. there were various things kicked around at various stages. And you could have rationalized it. But the smart thing to do was to say, no, we have a generational talent. And for all of the problems and concerns or challenges that come with them,

fuck it, we'll deal with it and bet on the talent. We have a top five player in the league and a top whatever talent of all time. And that's where Luca is. Luca doesn't have the rings. I'm not putting Luke on Kobe's level. but you don't get players of that caliber very often. They are precious, precious, precious commodities. And I've seen some weird rationalizations in the last 24 hours starting from various

corners of the internet and some Mavs fans about, well, we traded him for another top 10 player. All right. Anthony Davis may well be top 10 right now, but he's also about to be 32 with a long injury history, never plays 70 games in a season. and he cannot manufacture offense or just single-handedly win you a game the way that Luca Donchich can. So, yes, is he a really valuable player? Sure. He is more than a half decade older, has a lot of mileage and a lot of injuries.

There is no version of this that makes sense. And if you were going to trade Luca, you have to get the best possible hole. And again, as another front office person put it to me in the story that is up on the ringer right now, it would have been like the biggest hall of all time if you would actually shopped him around instead of concentrating on one team. It doesn't go this way. And when it does, it would be at a much lower level. You're going to only involve one team. It's because you're trading like your, your seventh man. And you had something specific you wanted to get for him. It's more like maybe the Quentin Grimes for Caleb Martin swap that we just saw before we started recording, right,

between the Sixers of Mavs. Like, okay, on that one, hey, you guys, Okay, cool, let's do this. But not when you're trading one of the greatest players on the planet. And Luca, not just, he's not just great by today's standards. He's a guy that people talk about is potentially one of the greats of all time by the time of all is said and done, which is going to be at least 10 years from now. It's, it's just, it's completely irrational and it's completely indefensive. Yeah, I mean, so there are, I mean, there are separate parts of the conversation, right?

Like I agree 100% about not really exploring all options available to you if you've decided you have to move a piece like that. And if you did that in a more open, hey, we're shopping him type of way, he would have commanded much more. It's hard for me, I mean, clearly, look, we've, I'm a Luca fan, but I've also said this before. Like, I don't know that I'd like to play with Luca. I don't know how many people like to play with Luca.

We've said this on the pod. Howard has wrote about it. Okay. Well, I didn't know that. But like, that's a thing. And look, I'm not saying that like that I wouldn't. I just don't know. Like, I don't know what type of person he is there.

And so like when you're, when you as an organization are trying to like figure out whether we're going to make the long term investment in that. And, and you've got that part of it. And then, you know, the other part of being the franchise star is, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, if he's not and the, if, if, if, if he's not setting the tone culture-wise, and doing the type of things that you need to see that. Kobe did that. Kobe might have had a whole lot of shit. going on and and didn't want this guy here, didn't want that guy there. Because usually it was because those guys couldn't keep up with Kobe's insane appetite for the work.

You know, like, I don't think anyone's saying that Luca has a problem with somebody's work ethic, right? And so, and I'm not excusing it. Like, I'm not, I'm not weighing in on the deal. I'm just trying to give, like, I don't know what was going on there. I agree with you 100% in terms of, like, I mean, that should have commanded way more than you got in return. I am trying to some degree, and I've been trying all weekend to see it from both sides, because he is so talented with the ball in his hands. He is so incredible in

terms of crunch time, get a bucket. Like, he's just built for every moment out there with the ball in his hands offensively. And I do want to make the distinction there, like with the ball in his hands offensively, right? Because the rest of it, no, not. Like, leaves a lot to desire in those other areas. And so, you know, if we're being fair, that all has to be pointed out. I'm not there making the decisions. I ain't, you know, Nico and Mike Finley and them dudes, I ain't, I ain't talked to them in regards to that.

That's a tough call. And so I imagine that's why I said what I said. If they figured, there is no excuse for, I mean, I would love to hear the reasoning behind why that had to be a quiet, sealed, like case type of negotiation, like why you felt like you couldn't explore all options to get, you know, the most value. But just without that being a part of the conversation, like, the conversations that must have been had with ownership in regards to the, to the human and the leader, to get to the point where you're deciding you got to, you have to start reaching out to people, had to be incredible.

Howard, we talk about like, I want to do, I want to get to the press conference a little bit. But first before I get to Howard, actually, I wanted to follow up on something that Rogers said. This in terms of like the player element of this, right, where you're weighing this, as the front office, you're always weighing culture. You're always weighing these things, right? But on the one hand, yeah, like Luca didn't work out. Like, I have seen it. We have joked on this pod about like I've seen him in person.

His warmup is, and Howard has probably seen this too. His warm up is like four half court shots and then he's going back into the locker room. That's literally all it is. And I get that. But on the other hand, this dude is dragged like rosters to the conference finals, right? Like, rosters that you wouldn't think would make it to the conference finals. I mean, I don't think without a lucid dachist level talent that this Bavricks roster last year gets to the finals, right? Like, he is that singular, singularly great, right?

We also know this about superstars. They come with a lot of baggage. There's a lot of stuff that we know and don't know about superstars, but we put up with the shit because it, because titles are there and legacies and all those things. There was what a, they didn't think he was going to sign the extension of all these things. But my question to you, Raj is, couldn't they have, like, tried to figure this out? It's Luca Donchich, man.

Like, I get it, and I get being fed up, and I get all these things. but there's one thing to like say oh he's a piece of shit like I'm so tired of this and put up with it yeah as opposed to like we're going to just like let him go out of the door for an aging star and all of the and we'll get to this when I asked Howard this but like all of the explanations just don't add up like how do we how do you not try to figure this out as no I i i agree with you 100% like I'm not like I want to make sure that everyone listening understands like I'm not supporting or condemning the deal. In either way, I'm simply saying, you don't think they tried to do that?

Like, so my point is, what is going on behind closed doors there has to be so damning. And it had to be going on for so long because I imagine anybody that runs a company would absolutely do that with a generational talent. Hey man, we got to fix this. Hey, man, we're going to have our 17th meeting in regards. to this, I need you to do this. Hey dude, we're going to have our 25th meeting in regards to this because you're that fucking good. Hey man, going to need you to fix this. So once we've gotten to the point that we're not talking about that shit anymore and this is executional, like we are

out there looking to pull a trigger. All I'm saying is we don't, we clearly don't know what was going on fully, the full scope of what was going on behind the closed doors. That's all I'm saying. Howard, how is, I do want to get to the Lakers point at some point. We will get back to the Lakers point of view on this, but me and you talked about this yesterday in our little pre-pod meeting just about like Nico Harrison. And like this was a crazy trade on its face. But like the press run from Nico Harrison has been diabolical. Like he's giving anecdotes about how this deal happened. He has a press conference with Jason Kidd to where he answers three questions and leaves Jason Kidd to like answer questions about what's going on.

He went from being this guy that, and I want to give credit, built a championship roster or built a championship contending roster around Luca Donchich, right, and a short amount of time. And now he's falling from grace like this. What is, what have, what could you say about Nico Harrison's performance? Not a trade aside, but like in the aftermath of the trade. You know, it's tough. When you get one of these jobs, GM or president of a team, and you're now the face of the franchise in a lot of ways. You're not the face of the franchise the way a star player is, but you are the voice of the franchise authority. And people are built differently, right? Like we've seen in New York, Leon Rose has not met with the local media or any media at all, aside from in-house media for like five years. When Leon has, when he did a press conference very early on, you saw like Leon, not all that comfortable in front of the cameras. Just because you're in this role doesn't mean you're a great message person, right?

You're not necessarily the best voice of the team. I'm not, I only say that to say. It felt to me like Nico was really nervous in the moment or unsure in the moment. He's just his composure in that presser with Jason Kidd. It's a pregame press conference, right? So normally that's when the coach is meeting with the media, right? So what they did was, well, the trade happened last night. This is the first opportunity for us to address it.

Let's put Nico next to Jason Kidd. Which is, I guess, presumably why also Nico left and left Jason Kidd there by himself after like eight, nine minutes. It came off awkward, though. Nico sounded awkward. He sounded unsure of himself in terms of how to present this, how to message this. And then leaving when he did, especially on the note he left on when he was talking. about like, yeah, they may be burying us in 10 years anyway or whatever. This weird offhand joke.

Like, okay. I think reputationalally, you're getting buried in real time. But then he stands up and walks away. And now Jason Kidd is as the coach who did not make this deal, who was by Nico's own account, Kid was left out of this until it was already basically done. And also Jason Kidd hired to coach Luca Donchitz, like literally handpicked by Luca Dajas to coach him. I will say, I will say something else that, and again, I'm not reporting this as fact, don't aggregate

this, but it was suggested to me by somebody from another front office in the wake of this on Sunday that maybe Jason Kidd wasn't all that thrilled with the way that Luca had comported himself there either, right? So if basically you got to this conclusion, like when, when, when Nico says, I didn't need to tell Jason, I know, we know, how each other feel about this stuff, basically. Oh, yeah, but there's not the exact words. It was more or less that, though. That's what Nico was conveying. He knows, and Jason was like, yeah, Nico knows.

That kind of underscores or helps support this premise, like I say, from somebody, a source with another team who told me, like, Jason Kidd was not exactly thrilled with Luca. And that would stand a reason too, right? Like, Jason Kidd, incredibly meticulous. We know what his focus and work ethic was throughout his career. And it goes along with this general theme, this kind of burbling below the surface theme, which is they won't say it out loud, but the Mavericks clearly had reservations about Luca,

about his conditioning, his commitment, his work ethic, whatever. Your consumption after, you know, potentially. Big games. Yeah, I mean, you know, as somebody else was saying, like this is a guy who, you know, plays for the Slovenia national team because he only wants to, like, it's a way to stay in shape without having to, like, work out and practice. He does not want to work out in practice in summer base.

He wants to play ball. That's all, that's the only way he wants to stay in shape is actually by playing basketball. He doesn't want to have to do the others. Going to be really interesting when he, you know, starts talking to LeBron James on a daily basis

about, you know, how to keep yourself in tip-top condition for a 22-year career. But the Mavericks clearly had concerns. Like, like, we are not here. Like, guys, we are not having this discussion. The whole league isn't still in shock three days later. If the Mavericks didn't conclude,

for some reason, that Luca was not their best long-term bet, and especially with the potential $350 million supermax on the table this summer. And so, yeah, I think ultimately Jason Kidd, probably whether he knew or not, he's clearly in agreement with the move. But my feeling is this,

if you were worried that he wasn't going to sign, it's like I don't think that was the case. Like, and Luca denied it today when he was asked by L.A.B. it seemed to me it was more about the other stuff, right? Is he the right investment? Especially with the price of superstars of today's MBA because the max keeps going up because revenue keeps going up. If you're afraid of making that commitment, I get it. So the first step is do everything possible to get Luca to reform himself, to be a better professional. If you conclude at the end of that, that he's beyond redemption, we can't get this guy and we're going to end up paying for it down the road.

He's going to keep breaking down. He's going to look like Joel and Beden a couple of years where you just can't stay on the court and we're going to be, you know, paying him $80 million a year and it's going to screw us. Okay, fine. That's when you take the step back and decide what is the best way of parlaying him into the next era then. Because what they did instead with the Anthony Davis thing, I'll wrap up here. But it's not only that you didn't get the best possible return. It's that you've got a very, very short term return.

And Kyrie's already in his early 30s. Kyrie never plays full seasons either. So now you're built around two stars who 10 years ago, if you'd paired them up, you would have said, man, core of a potential title team. In today's NBA, not. And they have a short window now built around two guys whose health you cannot rely on. And frankly, Kyrie has always been best when he's been paired with another ball handling superstar. Like he got his, he got to his championship next to LeBron. He got to the five. finals again next to Luca, a team that is completely Kairi-focused offensively with no other creators out there is a team that's now got a much lower seat. I mean, and AD2.

Speaking of Rogers language here, Anthony Davis has been a perpetual number two. Oh, yeah, but no. They're two number twos. You have no number one. All of that is facts. All of that is facts. And I, shit, I wouldn't argue against any of that. And that's been the fascinating part of this, though because like I well I agree with all of that I don't think two things I don't think you can discount um Nico's

relationship with Kobe in this like and what Kobe was about in terms of his work and the way he comported himself like as as a pro um and whether he you know whether he I like identified that within himself having that bias that Kobe set for him as a standard or not, like, it's there because he watched that. And let's just be frank, like, that's not, that's not a, that's not a, that's not a Nico move. Like ownership, that's not, I've been in those front offices. That's not something Griffith is like, hey man, let's take a flyer and float. We're going to trade LeBron to Dan Snyder.

Like, you know what I mean? It doesn't come up like that, like that. Those are, those are things that are that are hashed out over meals over the course of time, over dream. drinks over, you know, summer league dinners. Like, those are things that that's not something that just like pops up. So that's why I kind of said like, you know, to your point, Howard about and the one you made earlier, Logan, about, you know, let's see if we can reform this. Well, I mean, how old's Luca? 25.

25, yep. Been a pro since he was, what, 15? Yep. None of this is new. None of this is new. And I just don't think that. that was like a knee-jerk reaction to, to a recent set of circumstances, um, where they were just like, oh my God, like this, this has been going on. This has been

something that was, they've been fed up with him. Yes, correct. And so like, again, I'm not, I'm not weighing in on like, Lucas phenomenal as a, as a, as an offensive talent in this league. It's undeniable. It's, it's not even debatable. Like, the Lakers have their, their next great Laker for years to come. And I agree with everything Howard just said in terms of the Mavs with the shorthy now with two players that are ideally, you know, best as twos instead of ones. Like all of that is true. And I'm still sitting here saying like the most fascinating piece to me is like what that shit, what the what the fuck was going on in Dallas? Here's another thing no, Roger, that I thought of. Like, I understand all the things that you like that the front office feels about

Luca, I wholeheartedly understand it. But what you just did is you traded him to the Los Angeles Lakers. You basically took $100 million out of his pocket with the extension because he can no longer sign the Supermax. And you just motivated a guy that plays some of the best basketball we've ever seen when you have him fucked up. We have seen it on a postseason scale. I understand all those things.

Well, then you need to trade him to Siberia. You do not trade him to the Los Angeles Lakers who are in your conference and in your division and you play them four times a year. I'm not disagreeing with any of that. No, I just had to put that on record. I know he was on the same accord. I just had to put that on record in this podcast. So Logan, great point about the contract because, yeah, there's maybe some stick it to you motivation there.

Like you guys cost me $100 million. Um, beyond that. Texas taxes to California taxes. You really got him messed up. He got asked today in the press conference, Luca did about, uh, hey, you know, there's some reports out there that there was concerns about your conditioning and stuff. And he, and, uh, Lucas response was, quote, it's a motive. I know it's not true, but it's a motive.

I mean, it is true, but okay, fine. But like it, like, look, like, no one knows better than Lucas. He takes three shots every pre-game thing, bro. No one knows better. Of tequila? The Luca is not in great shape. And shots. Oh, shots of basketball shots.

Basketball shots. Oh. Yeah. And still drops 40s. Fortease. You could probably just take three shots of tequila and still drop 40. He probably could. No, no, he probably could.

No doubt about that. I just, I mean, it is interesting. Like, there had been concerns, you know, for the last few years about Luca. The story that Logan was alluding to, the story I wrote last spring was about how, like, Luca's got, like, he's amazing to watch. He's an incredibly talented player. everybody around the game agrees he's going to be an all-time great. But the difference between his box score stats or his production or what you see on the court versus some advanced stats

that were suggesting that for most of his career, and this changed in the latter half of last season, right? So when the time I'm reporting the story, the stats for like a four or five year run there were the impact stats, the advanced stats, kind of the advanced on-off stuff, wasn't matching up with what we were seeing, which was this fascinating conundrum. So I was writing mostly about the conundrum, but along the way, I was asking people around the league, including some people with very close ties to the Mavs who know Luca and that staff and everybody there well. So what are we missing? Like, why is, what's the disconnect? Why aren't they winning at a higher level? Why isn't this translating more? And the things that came up, his conditioning

came up. His defense, or lack thereof, of course, came up. Also, the heliocentric style, right? Raja was just saying a little while ago, like he wouldn't be fun to play with. That came up. somebody told me that there's a lot of the role players who have played there over time. You know, there's a sense like when Luca goes to the bench, like there's a sigh of relief almost because like, okay, I get to handle the ball a little more now. I get more shots now. And it's not, that's not a shot at Luca. Like, that's a shot at that style, which has been popularized for the last 10 years by Hardin and Westbrook and Janus. Like, there's a lot of super high usage guys. If you're a role player, if you're Rajabelle, if you're, you know, Chandler Parsons,

who waited on this. And you're just like this. Yeah, Parsons had played with Hardin. Yeah, you're, 30 minutes ago. Yeah, you're just standing there with your hands up. So, like, it's not easy to play with. And it, like, it does, you can't dismiss that. Mavs fans were apoplectic about this story.

But all these things were things that were well known in Dallas. They were well known across the league. And they're the kinds of things that people are now citing now and like, oh, maybe we should just trade Luca because there are some built-in, you know, challenges here that maybe we can't overcome. All that said, I'm the first to say, as the person who wrote that story and reported that story, I still think it's insane to have traded him and to have traded him for what they did. And I don't think they're winning a championship anytime soon. They were in the finals last June. I don't know if they weren't going to make it again this year, right? I don't think they were built

to make it again this year. And Lucas still banged up. But how about this, guys? Let me throw it back to you. I think both teams, as of right now, just for right now between now and the end of this season are worse off for this deal. The Lakers will ultimately be better off because they have a successor to LeBron, but they have no center right now. Rob Polinkin, that press conference, basically said the market's dry for centers, which is, by the way, just flatly untrue. There are a bunch of centers available right now. Maybe not the one he wants, maybe not one he can afford with their assets, but there are a shit ton of centers on the market right now between now and Thursday. If they don't get a center and they're just stuck with Jackson Hayes and small ball with Dorian Finney Smith.

And Lucas still working his way back. Like I don't see some massive run coming from the Lakers this spring. And on the Mavs side of it, like Anthony Davis is on the shelf to start his Mavs career. Kyrie A.D., an older Clay Thompson. I think the Dallas could really implode. I'd really think they could implode. I don't think they're going to implode, guys. I just look at where those teams are in the standings right now.

I don't think, neither of them are in great shape. Like, the Lakers are wins-wise right now in the standings, but I just, I don't, they've also got one of the hardest remaining schedules, the Lakers. I think they've got one of the top five hardest remaining schedules. They need to incorporate Luca. They need to get them healthy first. They have no center. I just, I think in the short term, both teams might actually be worse off.

and that's saying something considering the blockbuster nature of this. I think that I mean, I agree with you on the Lakers. Although there's a part of me that is like, well, shit, you got Luca and LeBron on the same team. Like that, you never know. And we just talked about how.

Yeah. We also just talked about how Luca can like bring garbage rosters up to like really good, at least serviceable, right? Just how that's how good he is. That being said, on paper, it's not. going to be good for the Lakers. But on the Mavs side, like, there's so much against them. Just what you just talked about with terms of age, right?

But then you have to incorporate a large piece in Anthony Davis into, what, a two-month stretch, right? Like, and that's really hard. That doesn't, any trade that you make mid-season, like, even when I remember when Durant got traded a few years ago to Phoenix, they were just talking, there was an adjustment period between him and Booker that was just so, that was glaring even though that they would score high numbers. it's going to be really hard to incorporate

and on top of the fact, like I saw Charles Barclay said that there's a second best team in the West. You know a lot more to me, Charles, but like, nah. When the Mavericks, he said? The Mavericks, yeah. And I'm just like, I just can't see it with all the things going up against them

on top of the fact that there's two number twos leading this team. I just don't see it. I actually, I mean, I wouldn't go as far as to say they're the second best team in the West, but I think if you're talking about immediately, I think the Mavericks are better

immediately than the Lakers are. Can I ask you a question, Raj, about that? Yeah, go ahead. They're definitely going to improve immediately defensively, right? But lively is still out for probably another couple months, I think. So maybe you're starting Gafford and Anthony Davis together. So the first question is spacing because why Anthony Davis loves saying I'm a four and out of five and they won a championship in L.A. when he was the four,

he shot a career high from three then and he's never approached it since. So one, spacing. Two, my concern for the Mavs and the reason I'm, downgrading them in this short term here is my thought that like no Kyrie centered a team first of all there's we mentioned that earlier there's that part right Kyrie doesn't doesn't lead teams anywhere without having a look or other but also he's their only guy so like where's shot creation coming what when when Kyrie goes to the bench are you running your offense through Spencer is Spencer Dinwiddie carrying it is like like I don't I just don't know where else

they're shock they were so Luca and Kyrie focused in terms of shot creation and scoring. Well, you have to be. You have to be when you have Luca. Yeah. So now he's gone. So what do you? So how do they?

Well, I'm not, I'm not saying that any of them are going to be able to do that to the degree Luca does that. Well, yeah. But I, but I think that there are people that, you know, this might not be purely in an ISO situation, but they're there, if you know what you're doing as a coach, Jason, kid, you can get people in positions to maximize their ability to create plays. And I think, I think that a lot of people on NBA. rosters today, the way guys are trained, the way they're brought up to play, have the ability

to create a shot. Me, I would not have had the ability to create a shot, right? Like, so like, in my day, of the specialist that we were, you know, you didn't have as much skill level. So you take a piece like that out. We're just kind of left out there like, oh shit, what do we do? But I think you do have guys on that roster. Again, you know, not, we're not talking about Lucas or even Kyrie's, but like, I think that there are guys that they could be able to be productive offensively. And the only reason I think that they are, they are better in the short term, again, I don't, I don't see them as like a number two team in the West or anything like that, is because of the, and I saw people debating this this weekend about the LeBron with, like, D. Wade,

when people said, hey, LeBron and Luca can't coexist, right? And then people were saying, well, LeBron and DeWay did it? Did they forget about that? And they were like, well, LeBron and Kyrie did it. And they forget about that. Well, in both of those scenarios, the ball was LeBron's. Because those two had the ability, Kyrie and DeWade to a certain degree, to either become a spot shooter in Kyrie's case, and then a sometimes dancer on the ball and finisher, while LeBron did most of the orchestrating.

And DeWade became more of a slasher type of finisher with LeBron on the ball. LeBron doesn't do that. LeBron isn't the one that you're going to say, hey man need you to get off of the ball and and be the slasher or the finisher right and so at this stage in his career and to get what you got luca for you would need him to do that and i i really have to see how that works because they can't take turns you're not going to take turns you go i go you go i go your ball my ball your ball my ball like someone has to take the back seat there and i'm just fascinated to see how that plays out yeah that's another thing like

I talked about this on the Ringer NBA show and the reaction with Justin Berry over the weekend. Just about like LeBron potentially having to be a number two in this role and like how that's going to be for him just psychologically, I was just psychoanalyzing, just like how that's going to be for him too. Because he's always said he wanted to do that

with Anthony Davis had a pass-up at Tom, but me and Roger have had these discussions of why that didn't happen. But like Luca at this stage is a better player than LeBron James. It just is. Can he actually take a back seat to a guy like this? Can he actually do it?

That's a huge question. Whether it's this year and beyond, if he signs an extension, can he literally do that? Because let's be real, this also takes, this also puts a wrenching, like, LeBron's plans and his mythology of what he was going to be for the next few years of the Laker, right? Like he was going to retire a Laker. He probably still is, but it's just a different, it's going to be a different way he does it now. Right? Now he has to kind of share stuff with him, with Luca.

And the Lakers are also now trying to build a title contender as opposed to a farewell tour team. So that's going to be an interesting dynamic to look at for LeBron. The LeBron of it all is fascinating too. Like that's just a whole other, that's going to be. How many years running did LeBron say like, oh, we're going to move this, we're shifting this toward Anthony. It's 80s team and I'm just going to facilitate. whatever. At the time of this trade, you know, obviously the end of the LeBron AD era, they had an exactly equal usage rate this season of 30.4. So, yeah, AD was pretty empowered,

but like it was not like the AD show. It was still very much LeBron Anthony Davis. So both at about 30% on usage rate. Here are Lucas usage rates for the last, starting with this second season, 36.8, 36, 37.4, 37, 36, and then 32.8 before he got hurt this season. Like, Luca's going to have the ball a shit ton. And who knows? Maybe JJ Reddick finds a way and he and LeBron and Luca worked together to find a way to make this maybe a little bit more of a partnership in the short term. And who knows? Guys, listen, LeBron, I do not mean this facetiously. And I do not mean to say something that is going to cause listeners to groan. LeBron is 40.

Maybe he is ready to take at least a little bit of a step. I don't think that that's crazy. The guy knows himself. He knows the stage of his career he's at. He knows they're in a transitional stage now, having just brought in a 25-year-old who does a lot of the things that he does, not at the same level, and not the same level of accomplishment.

But it makes sense. I did think it was noteworthy, and I don't want to make too much of it. But, like, I watched the press conference today with Polinka and Luca. LeBron's name did not come up much. It did from a couple of questions. But other than that, like, Polenko, when asked about like roster construction from here, he's like, oh, well, that'll be a lot about, you know, what JJ's philosophy is and how we're going to maximize what J.J. wants to do and what we need for Luca and blah, blah, blah, like did not involve LeBron in that answer at all.

So that was fascinating. But we are fully in the transition here, guys. Like, starting with the hiring of J.J. Redick, which people attributed as a LeBron thing, They hired JJ Reddick, a rookie head coach on a team with LeBron. You don't hire a rookie head coach if you think you're going to try to win a championship, by the way. And they gave him a six-year deal and talked about all of his development emphasis. That was about the young guys. So, like, starting with J.J. Reddick, moving to this trade, like, the Lakers are fully in planning for the next era mode.

I don't think this is about trying to win a title now in what's left of the LeBron area. Yeah, I also thought it was interesting when they asked Luca about had LeBron reached out to him. And he said he reached out right after having. He said, we didn't talk long, but I thought it was really cool that he reached out to me. Like, by three days now, dude, like, you probably, I thought, and now he could have not been given us the full story of how many times they've spoken and whatnot. But I did find that interesting.

And I don't, we haven't heard from LeBron yet. That's, like, it's going to be fascinating when he finally. Yeah, that's going to be very interesting. And I think you, you kind of, you hit on something that I do agree is true. Howard. Like I think that LeBron probably is more accepting than ever of being like the number two, if you will, like just kind of the thing is you kind of have to have a skill set to do that though. Like as you as you try to be a, you know, as you try to become a two and maybe there is enough meat on the bone for them to to kind of go, you go, I go and JJ can figure that out. But like he doesn't

have a true like this is a credit to LeBron. Like he doesn't have a true number two skill set. Right? Like he's more of a, hey man, like I am the, the, the, the, the, you know, puppeteer. I make all these pieces on this chessboard kind of move around and, and Luca does the exact same thing. And for someone who's doing that, that's fine. But all the pieces on the board that are doing the movie, like you have to settle into being able to do that. Right. And now he's brilliant. So maybe LeBron, when he puts his mind to it and actually gets a number one. See, part of it was that that AD to, to, to, to, to, support the point you were making about him in Dallas with Kyrie. Like, he was never really able to be the real number one. So LeBron almost had to stay as the co-number one. Like maybe LeBron puts his mind to it. He's like, yeah, Luke was fully capable. He can handle this.

Now I can really dive in to like what this could look like as the next version of myself. Maybe he figures that out very easily. I mean, he's a savant. But I'm going to have to see it. We'll see. One other thing that I would like to note is we talked, and I want to end it here real quick, at least the second. Damn, this is going long.

Um, Rob Polinka of it all. I just want to say he had a fucking strut in that press conference that I hadn't seen in a while. You know he was feeling good because he had the Eddie Murphy leather on with the infinite amount of zippers and the roly on. Half zipped on the top and bottom. What? Had the roly on. Had the real nice wedding ring on that day. He was, he was feeling himself.

That's one question that I do have, though, for you, Howard, is like, I mean, he did get Lucas. So, like, he does have that strut. But he's had a bit of a mixed bag in building championship teams. How much pressure is on him to write some of the wrongs that he made in the first go around when he had LeBron and building a championship team? Like, what does he have to prove here? Yeah, I mean, listen, without boring everybody with, you know, six years of transactions or whatever going chapter and verse. But, like, Polinka and Magic together had some misfires right out of the game. they eventually construct the team that wins the 2020 championship.

They immediately, and now this is just Polink at this point, immediately disband that entire supporting cast within about a year, and have spent every season since then trying to make up for that, and the Westbrook deal and all these other stuff. Like, Palinka has not been able to construct another viable contender around LeBron. I don't care that they were in the conference finals a couple years ago, and it's the Nuggets, they had no chance. they have not done a great job of building around LeBron in these latter stages.

This Luca thing, it's funny, at one point toward the end of the press conference today, Palinka was asked about having Luca as your centerpiece to build around for the next 10 years, and he said, oh, you know, it's a gift. And I thought, oh, my God, what a choice of words, because he was just gifted Luca. He didn't mean it that way, but yeah, it's a gift. You were gifted a generational talent. Palinka was in his bag. I'm not, and I'm not, and by the way, credit to Rob Polinka for not having to give up their 2031 pick or any swaps or Dalton Connect or Austin Reeves or anything else.

I don't know how, how he got away with not putting in everything that they had. Nobody around the league can quite, you know, comprehend this. But he did. So credit to Polinka for that part. But dude, Luca was gifted to them. It was a one-team negotiation and just incredible. Absolutely incredible. This happens sometimes, not discrediting Polenka or the Lakers. They're the Lakers. Great things happen for the Lakers. But yeah, the pressure is now on, as you point out, Logan. First, he has to navigate, as we've discussed, this slightly delicate Luca LeBron overlap, right? However long that lasts. Another couple months, another couple years, whatever it's going to be. And then while you're doing that

and trying to figure out how to build a contender now, you need to look at the long term. What kind of team should you be building around Luca? What kind of players fit him best? You're not on LeBron's timeline anymore, but he's still there. And you have to respect that. And you have to figure out how to navigate that both in terms of ego and pride, but also functionally. So I think it's a huge challenge. And like I say, I don't think Rob Polink's overall record, a championship notwithstanding, I don't think his overall record of roster building around the stars that he's had has been all that smooth. So I'll be very curious to see how they operate from here. And by the way, we still have two days till the trade deadline. Anything I'm saying about the Lakers short term prospects is on the

assumption that they don't do anything between now and Thursday, but they might. And if they do, you know, we'll reuse. See what happens. Say a quick break and do a little preemptive trade deadline talk and then get to a couple of mailback question. If you're in need of a midweek boost fan duel, America's number one sports book has you covered with the NBA hump day parley profit boost. Now every Wednesday, you can get a parley profit boost on everything from spreads to over unders and even player props. Look at the Wednesday night slate. Janus, I would think I'd probably hit the over, Janus against the Charlotte Hornets. They're not stopping anybody.

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sportsbook partner of the NBA. Must be 21 and over and present in select states or 18 and over and present in D.C. Opt-in required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit rg dash help.com. And we're back. We are two days out from the trade deadline. A lot of stuff still floating around out there. A lot of teams, a lot of needs, a lot of names still in the rumor mill.

And still, still, Steph Curry and the Warriors are sitting there trying to figure out, are they contenders again? Are they a play in team? Are they a lottery team? Logan, you had a great story this morning. Headlined Steph Curry and the Warriors face an almost impossible situation because they're navigating the headline noting this. They're navigating this tough late stage dynasty conundrum where you don't want to waste what's left of Steph's greatness and he's still great. But as we've discussed on this pie before, Steph, Grandma and Kerr, they all say don't do anything rash, don't do anything hasty.

You talked to Steph, you talk to Steve Kerr, you talk to Kevin Durant for this. piece. How is Steph handling all of this? And do you think that anything changes in terms of his or Steve Kurz or anybody else's approach there in the next couple of days? Like where do we think they are 48 hours from the trade day? I think it's so first of all, I think Steph is handling, I guess, as good as he can. But he's handling it within the parameters. of who he is, right? Like, he is not somebody that is going to shit on the media or shit on the front office to the media. He's not somebody that's going to give ultimatums if this doesn't happen. He's kind of just going to go with the flow and give his input on what should happen.

Now, there's a lot of warrior fans that don't like that. There's a lot of media pundits that are probably like, what are you doing? Myself, Howard, and I'm sure Rajah included in that, like, yo, this is the last few years of your of your of your career you should take advantage of it especially when we know how competitive you are so i feel like he's going through a a bit of an about face with his mortality right now and we're seeing it all firsthand as far as the warriors i mean for what it is honestly the market just isn't there for the type of star that they want to pair alongside stuff, right? The guy that they want is Giannis Saddekumbo. That's literally, that's who they are going to trade the farm for. That's who are they going to do this? That's who they're going to,

you know, trade half their roster for. They don't want to do it for Jimmy Butler or Zach Levine or Busevich or whoever that is. But like, the urgency is, is kicking in because Steph there's 37 in a month, right? So we can keep doing this. waiting game and all these things, but it's not like Steph's even 32 or 33. There's not a lot of time. So the frustration within the fan base is you're waiting on a hope and a prayer for Janus, but like you see other teams at least trying, other front office teams, at least being savvy right now, right? Like getting a piece, maybe, you know, maybe trading Kaming of Orcambe Johnson, you know, and sending him to Brooklyn. Or maybe like just at least trying. You don't have to get the

the big time piece, get an ancillary piece right now, maybe try to get something in the summer, maybe if Janus for the Upteom's summer, you know, plays double with that just says, maybe I want to go to another team, you know, maybe that they have a chance at him. But they are looking for like the Janus, Yonkich types, and those big fish are just not available.

I mean, at least we don't know they're available, because, I mean, I'm saying this is Luca Donsas just got traded for in the thick of the night, right? Who knows? But at least right now, it's not known that those guys are available right now. So they're in a rock and a hard place because they don't want the Levines and give them an extension. They don't want the, the, the, the, uh, Jimmy Butler's and give them a massive extension, um, to just compete for a playing, but they're racing against

time right. I get all that. Um, I feel like they have to do something. Like, I don't know what the something is. I know it sounds like the most like, the emptiest, like, most like reactionary thing, do something. What were they going to do? I don't know. But, But, you know, like, they have to feel that urgency. And I, I sympathize with the fans there, or just fans of the game. Like, nobody wants to see Steph or LeBron or KD, for that matter, stuck, right? Like, these guys, wait, we watch those guys on a nightly basis, right? Like, we know they're not what they were five or ten years ago.

Fine. Those dudes are still fucking killers. And there are still teams that every, are still players that every team fears. And watching, like, I know there's like these fantasies. notions out there now of like, oh, the Warriors are going to try to get LeBron and KD. That's never going to happen, but I mean, shit, we'd all love to see it. It'd be fun. I don't think that the Katie, I think the Katie thing is just like, it's so far-fetched. I don't think, Howard, like, what do you think? I don't think that that's going to happen, bro.

Like, that's, that's definitely not going to happen. It's funny that their report came out, like, after LeBron doubled down through, like, intermediaries that he's going to stay with the lake. And that report came out, oh, we're going to chase, we're going to chase LeBron. Like, they are, that is a, that is a sign that the Warriors front office is flailing at this point. If those reports are starting to come out that they're like through hell or high water we're going to try to get an all-star

after you have lost out on these all-stars, like that's just, you know, they're flailing. I think at a minimum what you have to do between now and the deadline is, you know, you have to at least shore things up to assure that you're going to make the playoffs. Like the Warriors need to not, they should not be a play-in team.

And they should, as of right now, they're, they're flirting with missing the play in itself too. Like the only thing worse, because people think of this as like championship or bust all the time. I'm not saying like you need to make only the move that gets you into contention.

There are other moves you could make that at least just make you relevant. Like what did Steph say at the beginning of the season in training camp? We have the potential to be a relevant team. And that's like, that has to be the, like, the minimal goal right now is like get in the playoffs have a puncher's chance have a you have a

step curry's worth chance against anybody and after oklahoma like it really is kind of a mishmash guys like i don't think there's a clear number two three four five pecking order in the west right now i don't think the the luka anthony davis swap changes that and the kings just weakened themselves by trading deer and fox they could fall out the spurs got stronger by getting deer and fox they could leapfrog the Warriors and the sons and the kings. Warriors at least just got to get back in the mix. I'll say this though real quick before. I'm going to show Rogers. I'm just going to say this.

And I would be curious to see, like, from a front office standpoint, what you feel about this, Rogers. So I'm going to just give you the scenario. The Warriors are, especially their front office and where they are right now. Like, I want to give this caveat that dynasties end, right? Like, that just all runs, great runs come to and it. That's just what it is. I want to give that caveat. But in this particular run and how it's coming to it in is there's just a web of politics within the Warriors front office, right? First off, you have a relatively new general manager and Mike Dunleavy.

Now, he was an assistant general manager under Bob Myers, but he has to deal with Joe Laker breathing down his neck and saying, hey, we can't, I don't want you to trade Kaminga. Like, every other time, I don't want you to trade Kaminga. I don't want you to trade Kaminga. I think he's going to be really, really good. Then you have the Draymond Green of it all who, despite his on-court production or lack of on-court production, holds real influence in that front office, right? And by his relationships with both Steph and Joe Lakers. So you have a guy that is in these talks, I mean, if this was any other team,

a Draymond Green type character would not be in, you wouldn't be asking his opinion on deals, but he has that kind of cachet within the front office. And then you have Steph Curry who was a bit indifferent. Now he is pissed, he's not winning, but he's a bit indifferent of all of these things. And he just kind of lets, there's a quote in my story about, from Kevin Durant saying this is the type of guy he is.

Like he kind of, he's not a guy that is just going to be, boisterous and all these things is a lead by example type of guy. You put all that together and you just have so many agendas within the front office trying to, who think they're right, trying to build a championship roster on the fly. Like it doesn't seem like everybody is on the same page and everybody seems like they're trying to get theirs and get their agenda going off within this front office. That's what is the most disappointing part right now. Yeah, you were asking me a question?

How do you manage that? Oh, yeah, I don't know. That's that. There's a lot, there are a lot of moving parts there. You know, for anybody trying to do their job, like if you're, if you're done, Levy, like, you know, it's about communication, man. Like, hey, listen, Joe, I got to do my job. You bought me in to do it.

If you trust me to do it and you really trust me to do it, trust me when I tell you that I think if we got rid of comminga we could do xy and z you don't trust me to do it and you don't let me execute my vision then I got to then you know as any professional you got a way whether that's the place for you or not right like um you know like I don't know what kind of relationships Draymond has in there like I'm sure Draymond's a he's got a great basketball brain I don't know to what degree he was involved in other pickups that either bore or didn't bear fruit for them so like If he's got a track record of being really savvy and being able to identify talent and bring it in and that it fits, then you give him, you know, you continue to trust him.

If he doesn't have a track record of that, then, you know, the hard conversations have to be had all the time. But it's all about communication, you know, and then from staff, like, you know, I'd just say, like, you can be somebody for a long time and it can work out because you were that guy. And it could also be true that as you get older and you get to a certain, you know, point in, in life. life or in, in, in, in, in, uh, profession that you got to hop out and be somebody else. Um, because circumstances aren't the same. And sometimes people got to know that you have the ability to hop out and be somebody else. Um, and so I can't tell him when the time's right to do that, but, but sometimes there, there's, there's situations where, you know, you could be a good dude, a good soldier, quiet, lead by example, all of that. Um, and that could to some degree get taken for

granted. Now, clearly, they don't take him for granted as what he's meant to the, to the, to the, to the city and the franchise and they paid him and all that type of shit. But at some point, you might, you might have to be like, hey, man, what the F? Like, I'm not happy with this. What, you know, you might have to have those conversations. So communication, dude, Frank, communication, honest communication. Like, because that's the only way you can find out whether your visions are aligned, whether your timelines are aligned, whether your thought processes are aligned. And if they're not, you know, to the point you were making before, I'm at 37, I ain't got a lot of time. That was beautifully put, Roger. Thanks, buddy. Good shit, buddy.

I think we're ready. That dog, I just threw it on a fly. You're like, what, what, was that a question? Oh, I'm just going to drop. I'm just going to drop, I'm just going to drop a light 35 and 18 with, with my response. Don't even trip. Um, okay, let's get to, let's get to mailbacks. Let's get to Milbax. I don't want to get too early. I mean, like, the Warriors are who they are, man. Like, they need to figure their shit out. Or, like, do something.

I don't know. I just, it's just really sad to go to Chase Center. I mean, Howard's going to see it next week. It's just gloomy. It's sad. It's raining for eight days straight out here. It's just, ugh. And not the good, like, Miami rain where you know there's going to be sunny in 15 minutes.

No, we're going to sit in this. All day gray, huh? All day great. Hello, Cliff. You, first of all, y'all didn't talk about the biggest trade of the day, man. Quinn Grimes to the Sixers, what's going on? Not a word, not a mention. I mentioned it.

I mentioned it. I mean, a slight two-second mention. Cliff, Cliff, worry about your Super Bowl. When are you going to New Orleans, bro? Aren't you about to have, like, aren't you about to see Kendrick in the flats? Yeah, I wish. Nah, man, but, you know, I'm going to remain here. Had to stay back, you know, some budgeting reasons here.

You know, we're not going to go too deep into that. But I just came back from vacation. So, you know, I'm good here anyway, you know what I mean? But let me get to the first question here. Behind the scenes of a player getting traded. Hey, guys, been an avid listener since the slightly awkward first episode. I've been loving the swagger of Logan's NBA experience of Rajan Howard's insightfulness. In light of recent Luca A.D.

That shit was hella awkward, Rob. That's it? I got to go back and listen to that. No, please don't. All right. In light of the recent Luca AD trade, I'll love for you guys, maybe mainly Rajah, to discuss what goes on behind the scenes of a trade like this, from the players finding out to packing their bags and getting on a plane.

Some questions I have are, what do they bring on the PJ? Who pays for the PJ? Do all players who get traded go via PJ or only the All-Star NBA, all-MBA player, caliber players? How do you handle it with a family? Like AD and Luca, both have families and children. What does finding a school and accommodation look like? I know that over the course of the podcast similar to the exact same discussions had popped up,

but I thought as the trade just happened, it would be an appropriate discussion to revisit how these blockbuster trades impact and disrupt the lives of the players and their families. Oh yeah, and big congratulations to Logan on his child. Victor from Sweden. Get in your bag. Thank you, bro, Victor. Appreciate you, brother. Get in your bag, Roger.

Get in your bag. Wow. Yeah, there's a lot. I mean, there's a lot that goes into the trade. And, you know, like the first thing you hope for as a player is that you have, you know, an ownership group and a general manager that thinks enough of you to give you like a heads up so you don't have to find out in some kind of, you know, jacked up way as it goes across a ticker. You know, like I've alluded to Darren Williams finding out that he was traded when we were in, where we were in Dallas. We were playing for Utah, but we were in a hotel room in Dallas. So that's the first thing, like you just like to know.

Great question about PJ. Yeah, I think for a certain level of player, PJs are warranted. Like, I certainly was not one of them. So, like, I'll just go through my trade in L.A. real quick. Like, I was with the Sons, was eating my pregame meal, and I got a call from a friend of mine who had grown up with Jason Richardson's wife. And this friend of mine, Carlos Daniel, I played with him to CBA, was like, hey, man, I think you just got traded.

And I was like, definitely did not. been sitting here watching Sports Center all day, about to go to the Staples Center. And he was like, yeah, well, I mean, I'm pretty sure he did because you got traded for Jason Richardson and he gave me the background. So I called my agent. And they were like, yep, you just got traded. Steve Kerr or whoever is going to be calling you. So they called me.

So what that looks like then, right, is I get back on a plane that night. The team is going to go play the Lakers because business don't stop. So me, Boris, Sean Singleton, we all get on a, we go to L-A-X and we hop on a plane like a like just a regular commercial airline flight to Phoenix. You get to Phoenix and then like my wife had just had my second boy. So I had a two year old or 18 months and like a three month old. So, you know, I'm telling her. Then you get the call like you got 72 hour, 48 hours to report to Charlotte.

So you're literally like without the PJ, you're putting together like two big bags of luggage, whatever you think you're going to need over the course of however long it's going to take for your family to get there, and then you're helping tie up whatever loose ends you have that you can help her with over the course of the next 48, and then you're on a flight to Charlotte. Once you get there, you're in a hotel that's picked up by the team.

You got a rental car, and then somebody with the team will be in charge of like helping you logistically plan out what life's going to look like there. right so like you know you're going to get a real a realtor that's going to take you around town explain the areas talk to you about where most guys live where where what your family life looks like are you a bachelor do you have kids do they need to be in school is at elementary is at high school like boom so they're going to get you set up there um you know and then and then the meantime like your your significant other or whoever your team is is at home like we had just opened a a boutique so like you know my wife was kind of in a spot with

with the two babies, and then she had to close up, you know, and tie up all those loose ends business-wise in the, in the Scottsdale area before she could meet. So I don't remember why I got traded, but they didn't come out until probably around Christmas of that year, just because she had some stuff to take care of. So I rode Dolo and Charlotte until she could get out there with the boys. That's fascinating.

I've heard, you've told this story on the pod. And before a few years ago, like, mine's not even bad. I know, but I'm just so fascinating, bro. It is just, no, it's, it's, it's, Listen, it is, it's a, I mean, that was a really superficial look of what happens on a trade. But like, you know, what your head is spinning, dude. Like you live, like you've made a life here. Like you, your, your kids are in school or preschool or whatever we have, wherever you have going on.

Like, you know, it's like any other place where you live. You probably have friends that you do shit with. You have, you know, routines that you get involved with. Like your kids have friends that, that you've become friends with their parents. Like, you have a life. So when that's ripped, when that's ripped. you know kind of from you and now you got to go start another one it's part of what you sign up for but it's not an easy it's not an easy part of it we have time for one more let's get one more cliff

all right let's just do this quick one um roger i don't need you to name any names here but it says hey guys with all the lucas conditioning issues being the justification for the trade i was wondering one what the hell did they mean by conditioning issues and how did they determine slash enforce these uh issues and number two did roger i ever have conditioning issues or play with others who did Johnson. That's how I said. Don't name no names because you don't want. Name names, Roger.

Name them. I want weight. I want body fat percentage. I want to know what they ate three game. Oh, shoot. Yeah, man. Listen, the NFL is more, the only team that really operated like this at the time.

I can't speak for everybody now. I've been in the league in a long time was the Miami Heat, where they had a body mass index that they were. taking into account every day when you came in there. NFL teams, college football teams, they regularly do it, right? Like Howard Beck, for his frame, needs to be, I don't know, 185, and we're looking for like 7% body fat, and they're measuring that every day. And if you don't make that- I'm going to need to eat a lot more to get there. But you're getting penalized for not making that by way of a fine or something like that.

That wasn't commonplace in the NBA when I played. Like the heat did it, but nobody else that I really remember did that. Trying to think of like, yeah, for sure guys that had, I mean, look, trying to think of off the top. Like, like, you know, he was a friend of mine. I played with him. Like, God rest his soul, I think he's past now. But like Robert Trailer used to have a hard time stand in shape.

Like he was a bigger person. Yeah, he was just organically a big person. Do you know what I mean? Like, you know, like, Boris? You know, Boris, Boris was someone, Charlotte Boris, yeah. Yeah, boo's my guy, but like, like, was a big- No, no, Boris has said on this podcast that he didn't give a shit

at points of his career. So it's- Yeah, but like some people, like, so here's the deal, right? Like, this is just genetics. Some people cannot give a shit. Like, I could not give a shit and I wasn't going to look out of shape. I wasn't going to have a problem. I was going to be able to hop on a court regardless of how much I work

and run up and down it for 35 minutes. You wouldn't be able to take it. hell. Like, you just wouldn't because those were, you know, I wasn't, like my parents weren't big, bigger people. Like, you know what I mean? So I wasn't predisposed to be a, a six, nine body, right? Like, certain people just, you know, like have to work at it a little bit more to stay in that kind of shape. Basketball is, I mean, shit, that shit is going up and down the whole game. So I play with a bunch of, I played with a bunch of people that. To add to that. Real quick. Well, you think of another one. If you have another one, we would love to.

I'm trying to think, yeah, go ahead. While he's thinking, Logan, quick trivia question for the, or just tribute, no, tribute note. Actually, no, I'm going to make this trivia question. Let's go. For Logan. I was going to say for the younger listeners,

but you're the younger listener, Logan. Do you know the significance of Tractor trailer? It's a great nickname. Oh, I know it. He was traded for somebody on draft night, on the night of his draft. What year was his draft? You're not looking this up.

Is it 96? No, I'm not. I'm not. No, it was 1998. Oh, was he? Cliff, you got it? Got it, Cliff? No, I, I'm trying to think here.

He was traded draft night. Nah, I don't think I got it. I don't have it. We're 12 years old. Go ahead, yeah. Oh, that's right. They were babies, yeah. Robert, Robert Trailer was taken with the sixth pick of the 98 draft

by the Dallas Mavericks. Now do you know who he was traded for? Dirknovsky. That's right. Dirk, Dirk. Nivitsi, a Bucks draft pick. Yikes. Ooh, him and Real would have been sick. But one other thing I wanted to add to that

was, like, it depends on a team like in terms of conditioning because some teams be lax. They'll let you play your way into shape. I mean, during training camp. Howard knows that very well, covering Shaquille O'Neal. meal. Some are like really stringent in like the Miami Heat. It would just be like you need to come to camp like on time or whatever.

Like the Warriors, I know they were just, they're like a mix between the two. Like you got to like get it. Just be a professional. Like we're viz. We're just like, don't give a shit. But that's just more of a function of like, you know, team dynamics and what their goals are and ownership, a lot of different factors. Ennis Cantor early in his career. Ennis, one of my favorite things to do, you. used to be to ask Ennis, and he's a great dude, like, and wound up being a really good player, but I used to ask him, like, because we didn't have meals. I've talked about this before. Like, you know, Utah was still in the, in the, like, hey, we're not going to provide you guys meals after the game. Like, you got to figure out what you're going to eat.

And honestly, Salt Lake closed down so early that, like, there weren't many options. So I'd ask that dude, like, what he ate. And it was like my, it was one of my favorite things to do. Be like, yo, Ennis, would you eat? And he'd give me, like, like, five burgers. and like, holy shit, bro. That's the thing, though. Like, guys of his size, whether they're in shape or out of shape,

the amount of food, a seven foot, like 280 pound dude can put away. Oh, my God. Calories, bro. Because y'all burn a lot of calories, man. Like, hey, Ray, Ray Felton, like, another one of my favorite teammates. But, like, Ray, Ray could go in and out of shape. Like, you know what I mean? He wasn't a seven footer.

Like, but like, no, just, just, you know, body type. You got to stay on it. Yeah. All right. Give them an hour 15, raw. In a bag, bro. Gave the streets an hour 15.

By the way, I think they were all good. Palinka's jackets getting clowned and ringer slack right now. Oh, is it? Hold on. Let me look real quick. Let me see if there's a good joke, bro.

Don't what's crazy about that. Just don't out anybody. The last one I saw is the best one. I don't even know what a slag is. Can I read it? Go ahead. Oh, when you have a knife, when you get, this is,

this is in ringer. slack. This very inside baseball. Y'all can guess in the comments who said this. You're not going to get it, though. When you get Luca, but you also have a knife fight in Michael Jackson's beat-it video later. But then the next one was,

this was probably marked down five times on the T.J. Max's clearance rack. No, I think he, it's just like an extra speedium. Like, it's extra, extra small. But it's got to be like five racks. It has to be. Like, this is, he spent real money on this.

He's spent real money on this. Yeah, that's a piece. That's a piece. That is a piece. but like also bro like the them sleeves don't go bro them sleeves them sleeves barely feel like Roger's youngest kid bro like give

stop all right rule one's mailbag at gmail dot com room ones mailbag at gmail dot com room ones mailbag at gmail dot com make sure you guys go get tickets for the real ones live show February 15th also another thing for the real ones live show it's on the same day as a lunar new year

So make sure y'all get there early, bro. It's going to be popping. Like 1.5 million people are going to be in San Francisco for the Lunar Day parade. So make sure you guys, you know, take public transportation, get there a little early, you feel me? And another housekeeping. We'll see you guys on Thursday for the trade deadline special, me, Howard, Raja in the building. Roger, don't give me that look. You soft committed pre-pod.

I don't want to hear this. We will see you guys on Thursday. All the shits. I'm too tired, but I'm going to go bye. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or visit RG-Help.com.

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