The Ringer NBA Show - Tyrese Maxey Calls Out Joel Embiid in Sixers' Team-Only Meeting. Plus, the Cavs Face the Celtics in a Matchup of the Top Teams in the Eastern Conference.

Episode Date: November 19, 2024

The Cavs have been on fire this season, starting 15-0. Will facing the Celtics on Tuesday serve as a litmus test of where they stand in the Eastern Conference (5:00)? It was reported on Tuesday that the Sixers held a players-only meeting following their 106-89 loss to the Miami Heat Monday night. Raja and Howard assess what’s going on in Philly and how Embiid’s actions could be affecting the team (17:53). Raja expounds on the responsibilities of star players and whether the organization is to blame as well. Plus, mailbag questions! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Howard Beck and Raja Bell Producer: Clifford Augustin Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? Chris Vernon here and welcome to a new season of the NBA and the mismatch. And huge welcome as well to my new co-host, Dave Jacoby. I can't wait to link with you twice a week every Tuesday and Friday right here on the mismatch to break down everything that's happening in the league. Who's playing well, who we loved, who we loathed, trade rumors, team dysfunction. We've got you covered right here. So follow us, subscribe and hit us with those five-star ratings on Spotify or wherever you get you. your podcast. And also don't forget to follow us on social media. That's at Ringer NBA. And check out the full mismatch episodes with the two handsomest podcasters in the history

of podcasting read in the Ringer NBA YouTube channel. What up? It's the Real Ones. Howard Beck, senior writer at the Ringer. He is Raja Bell. With us is producer Cliff, not producer Kerm. We will talk about that a little bit later in the show. Raja, how you doing, sir? Good, Howard. Weather's starting to change down here a little bit, a little crisp, got a football game Friday night, and wanting to have a sweatshirt on in a way that I normally don't,

which is a great sign for South Florida. So I'm in it. You're telling me the air is crisp in South Florida? That's not a thing, is it? Well, rarely, but we had a little cold kind of front. Like, forgive me, I don't know the pressure systems and shit, but when some of them push in, we get a little drier air, a little cooler temps, and I'm with that.

Wow. I did not think that was a thing. I love weatherman Raja making an appearance. That's cool. Meteorologist Raja didn't know you had it in you. I, I, uh, my bad, Howard. My bad. I listen, you this is kind of the life of like, you would, you would know this at some point, but your daughter's older. They're four of them. They're in school. I podcast. I play a little golf. Like I was, you know, I've been fortunate in my life. So, like, there's not a lot going on. The weather's a big part of my world. Dude, you're like the progressive commercial where, you know, the guy's turning into his dad and he's like looking out the window going like, ah, you know, my pressure system coming in. It's looking a little cool today. I have a lot of those tendencies.

Every time I see the commercials, I'm like, Jesus Christ. Dude, it's all of us. We're fucking doomed. Real quick before we get to a bunch of stuff, including Cavs Celts tonight. First, like, really, there's like no big games in November. Let's not get crazy. But like the first, like, really super intriguing game of the season, I feel like. But we'll talk about that in the Sixers and all-star game format changes.

And inside the NBA being saved, hallelujah, all of that mailbag at the end. But before we get up to all of it, Raja, as you know, I'm spending a lot of time on Blue Sky, our new Twitter alternative. and I've created what's called a starter pack for the Ringer NBA team and the Ringer at large, which means, hey, if you want to follow the Ringer MBA team, here are everybody who's on. Here are all the Ringer people who are on. You can just click one button and you can follow them all. And people are noticing a certain absence.

And our listeners, Real Ones listeners, who, by the way, thank you, Real Ones listeners, flocking to Blue Sky. I'm getting a lot of people telling me that they're there because they heard us talk about it. And I have gotten note after note after note, Raj is saying, didn't Roger promise us? He was coming. Where's Roger? Well, he's there, dude.

Are you there? I'm there. I'm a follower of yours, Howard. All right. Dude, I have not, I didn't see the notification. What's your handle of blue sky now? Let's see. I'm following two people.

Oh, Blue Sky app and Howard Beck. All right. What's your handle? So I'm Bell, Raja 19. obviously BS sky B-E-S-sky at social. There we go. All right.

I'm there, guys. I'm there. Love it. In fairness, I went to like navigate through it and kind of like surf it or whatever you call it the other day and I got in and something else

just called my attention. So I didn't get to do that. But I mean, I made that account when I told you guys I was and I immediately followed you Howard. Forgive me, I thought you might see that and like, be like, okay.

But I'm there. It's my fault now. Yeah. It's my bad. I'm good with that. It wasn't overt, but you picked it up, right? All right. No, this is, the people will be very happy to hear it.

I will shout you out on Blue Sky as soon as we finish this show. Folks come find us there, BSKY. Dot app. I'm posting a lot more there these days and a lot less at the other site. So, Raja. Cleveland Cavaliers are 15 and 0. They've won like, I don't know, 50 more games since we last talked. They are the fourth team in NBA history to win 15 straight to start a season.

It's the second best start ever behind the 2015-16 Warriors with that 24-0 start. The Celtics, of course, defending champs, 11 and 3. Not too shabby. It's no 15-0, 11-3, pretty good. And even just statistically, the advanced stats, the cabs have the number one offensive, the number one in offensive efficiency. Celtics are number two. Cavs are number seven in defensive efficiency.

Celtics are number nine. So, like, they're neck and neck. Cavs have the number two net rating. Celtics have the number three net rating. And here we are. They're playing tonight. By the time so people listen to this, it may already be over.

So I don't want to spend too much time on it. But it's, we got to hit it. We got to talk about this. Like, what are you looking for in a November 19th game? still in the first whatever 15, 20% of the season. Like, what does a Tuesday game in late November mean for two teams that right now certainly feel like they're on a collision course, the defending champs, and the team that suddenly looks like the second best team at minimum in the east?

Yeah. Well, it's interesting because the calves, you know, obviously have had a point to prove all year. You know, you come out of the gates the way they came. They've come out of the gates. they haven't had that just random hiccup that you're going to get on a Wednesday night playing as many games playing the NBA. That's focus. They're locked in in a way where they're saying I have something to prove, we have something to prove coming out of the gates. Having said that, Boston obviously NBA champs, who you're going to have to go through in the East, the favorite,

this isn't even a bigger statement that they can make. So like in a world where you're already trying to make a statement, you've got this one pencil. And it, it, You circled it with darker and darker and darker pencil as you continued to rack up wins. Now you're 15 and no, you get to see Boston. You're like, yes, this is, this is where we want to be. And from Boston's perspective, as a team that just won the championship, a lot of guys playing in the Olympics, nothing really to prove, right? Coming into this season, want to be playing good basketball, just want to make sure we're healthy. We've got all our pieces back.

But a team like Cleveland hops out and is doing what they're doing, and you're noticing that. Like if you're Boston where you, you know, in a league where you just take care of your own business and most people like to keep their focus within the building and within the locker room, I mean, you know what the fuck's happening over there. And every day they went another game and you realize they could be coming to you guys at 15 and O popping big stuff. It just, it gets you up in a way where I think you're going to see a really, really intense game tonight. I think, you know, not every game you can point to between two good teams early in a season and say it's going to be like a playoff atmosphere. some this year that I've watched, this one I think will be one of them. Yeah. Who does it matter for more? It's got to be Cleveland, right? Like the Cavs winning this, beating the defending champs to go 16 and 0, it would like certify everything they've done so far. Like I, you know, I have lightly

pointed out, I think we did on this podcast last week and a couple other shows that I did last week. I talked about like, listen, what the Cavs have done is absolutely legitimate. Any, anytime you're 12, or 13, no, 14, and 0, it's legit. But it's incumbent upon us to, to note that the Cavs' strength of schedule has been really low. It's been one of the weakest schedules in the league. So it's not to say that it's illegitimate. It's just to say, hey, I want to see what happens when they play the best of the best. Well, here we have it.

Here we have it. If the Cavs beat the Celtics, then anybody bringing up, as I did, rudely, that their strength of schedule has been weak, suddenly it doesn't seem to matter as much. Do you think that it does mean more for the Cavs because of that tonight? I do for sure. I would just reiterate, like I said, last time. Caz don't make this good. I mean, I'm looking at their wins.

You know, these teams weren't, not all of them were projected to be bad. Like, we didn't have Milwaukee multiple times necessarily be a bad team. Golden States in there. We didn't look at the Sixers and necessarily think they were going to be a bad team. Like, there are teams where, like, I can control what I can control as the Cavs. So while maybe, you know, it's worked out this way, I mean, don't hold that against me. I'm playing good basketball. Yeah.

Right. But certainly, Howard, to your point, having said that, we've got the reigning NBA champs, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown. Like, you know, yes, this is a game that we've got penciled before we even come into the season. But again, you know, as we got closer to it and we were winning games, I mean, the spotlight on it just got bigger. bigger. So huge game for them and they will want to come out. Yeah. The only, it's weird, right? Because if you look at the schedule at a glance and you noted some of these teams, the

Cavs were supposed to have played in theory a harder schedule. It's just that some of the teams that were supposed to be good have been trash. Right. So the only teams they've beaten that currently have winning records are the Knicks, who are a couple of games over 500, the Magic, the Lakers, and the Lakers. and the Warriors. And, you know, they've beaten the Bucks twice. And once upon a time, we would have thought, oh, that's, that's phenomenal.

You beat the Bucks, but the Bucks are pretty bad this season. And so it's hard to interpret that accurately and decide, like, how, like, what does that mean? Is it meaningful to beat the Bucks right now or not? Everybody's beating the Bucks right now. But again, that's why it's that much more intriguing to see them play the defending champs because it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's an early measuring stick. And like, they, if the calves win, I don't know that we necessarily say, okay, they're absolutely

contenders. If they lose, it doesn't mean that they're not contenders. It's just, it's still only November 19th and there's a lot, a lot of season left to play. But, um, but, but, but, but, players get up for this, right? Like they, in their minds, they're probably saying, like, we want this. We want, we, we, we want to make sure that nobody has any doubts. The Celtics or fans or media. Yeah. You're kind of, right now you're trying to, well, let me, let's go back to the Cavs real quick just in terms of the schedule they played.

You know, when I was with the Sons, when I was blessed to be on the Sixers teams or the Mavericks when we went to the Western Conference finals, I'm referencing those teams because those wound up being really good, deep playoff run teams. And you've come into seasons with expectations. our job, whether the Milwaukee's of the world wind up being good or not isn't of any concerned of. If they're bad, our job is to just beat them and keep it moving. And so I say that because that's all that Cleveland's done, right? Like, even though it hasn't been, it hasn't shaken out like we expected to with strength of schedule, like a sign of a really good team is to just dismiss

of the bad teams and keep it moving, you know, on that plane and get to the next stop. So they've, They've done that. This is what's interesting when you're kind of at this point as a team that has a measure and stick game. You want to keep the focus being the process, right? Like when you're in an NBA season, like it's got to be one game at a time. It's got to be, hey, we're on to the next. It's got to be routine. And at the same time, you can't ignore the fact that you know you're going to play Boston.

And Boston is the reigning champ. So you're trying to walk a tight line between being up for that game in a way that it allows you to kind of play and come out of the gates the way you want to come out of the gate in a tough atmosphere like Boston against a team like the Celtics. But at the same time, not put too much weight on that game that would just get you off your normal rhythm in a way that win or lose. There's a real letdown coming out of that game. And, you know, that's kind of the tricky part when you're playing as many games, you know, in a condensed amount of time as you do in the NBA. sure, some games mean more than others, and we acknowledge that, but we kind of got to keep that inside. You might have light conversations in regards to that, but the broader, the broader philosophy and kind of culture of like one game at a time, keep your eyes on the prize that's down in

June like that, you have to, you have to be committed to that. Yeah. I think the thing I'm most curious about tonight is just, you know, the strength of the calves, obviously is that backcourt. You know, Garland and Mitchell just generate a ton of points. and a ton of open looks for their teammates, all the play. Like everything is centered on those two guys. And I wonder if it plays right into the strength, though, of the Celtics, one of the strengths of the Celtics, right? Like, they've got Jalen Brown can guard either of those guys.

They could either throw Tatum at those guys. They've got obviously Derek White and Drew Holiday to throw at those guys. Do you go all out as the Celtics in what looks like an early season statement game kind of thing to try to shut them down and say, oh, you're a. think you're coming through us next spring. Let's let's remind you of what we've got here with all this, this length and, uh, and defensive ability on the perimeter. I just, I wonder how that's going to play out. There are other matchups. I'm sure that will emerge over the course of the game, but, um, I'm very curious to see how much the Cavs, which again, um, going into this game,

calves have the number one offense in the NBA. Does that hold up against the Celtics team that at It's best, you know, again, they're top 10 right now, but they have top five ability as a defensive team, and their strength is certainly perimeter defenders. I'm very curious to see how that goes. What's going to be kind of the tail of the tape as it relates to when to the game, it's going to be that the ability of the Boston, you know, wings slash guards to kind of stay in front, contain the ball, contain those primary scores. because a lot of what they do, you know, springs and allows those other guys to kind of eat. Like, you know, so containing them is the first line of attack. If you have a defense, and not all great defenses are created equal, right? Like some have great rim protection.

Guards do a lot of gambling. They're up. They're pressuring and then you're going to clean it all up behind and rebound the ball. Some are just really steady on the ball and it doesn't collapse your defense. And so Boston's good, has the ability to be really good on the ball. ball and and and and stop penetration. That's a tough one for I think specifically teams built like the calves where a lot of what you're going to get is based off of guys with the ball in their hands either out front or on the wing. If you can stop the breakdown of the first line of defense,

then you stop all the other defensive dominoes from falling, which generally result in the lob for for someone at the rim or spray out for a three. So that's going to be defensively to tell the tape for Boston, keeping the ball in front, stop. initial breakdown of our defense. And then I think for for Cleveland, it's going to be what can we do with these, these threes? Like obviously Boston wants to get them up. They get them up.

You know, I didn't look at the stats, but if they're not number one in the league, they're one of the top five teams in the league in terms of they're committed to that. Can we guard the three point line? A lot of that also starts with containing the ball, Howard, because you get one, you get one step by Jason Tatum and his shoulders are by you. It draws that secondary defender. I hit the secondary defender. we're in Scramble, and they move it around as good as anyone.

So the three point and containing the ball kind of for both teams. Real Ones is presented by Fan Duel. If you're in need of a midweek boost, Fan Duel, America's number one sports book has you covered with the NBA Hump Day Parlay Profit Boost. Now every Wednesday you can get Parlay Profit Boost on everything from spreads to overunders and even player props. Tonight undefeated Cleveland against defending champions Boston. I'm going to take the over-on points.

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That's going to be fun tonight. At the risk of being very Eastern conference-centric here, our East Coast bias coming into play immediately, at the risk of depressing a large part of the listening audience, including our producer Cliff. Can we talk about the Sixers for a second? I was hoping not to talk about them for a while. I was hoping not.

But then they got their asses kicked again last night against a heat team that is kind of neh themselves, blew like a 16, 17 point lead. As of this morning, the Sixers are two and 11, tied for last in the Eastern Conference with the tanking Washington Wizards. They're 0 and 3 when Joel and B. plays and Embed looks like last night a shell of himself basically. I don't know.

I'm not sure. I think I have been the holdout here. I have been the holdout saying we've got to wait and see when they're all healthy. We're getting into deep November and it's starting to look concerning. Cliff had a finger up there. Real quick, this is just breaking news. John Clark from NBC Sports Philadelphia, according to Shams, Sharani, if I say that correctly. I hope I'm saying that correctly.

Kyle Lowry called for a Citrus team meeting last night, and Tyrese called out Joel Embed to be on time for team activities. He has reportedly been late a lot because of how it affects the rest of the team, according to Shams. Look at that. Cliff, coming in with breaking news, clutch. My friends just sent it to the group chat. So this is, I mean, now you got All-Star Maxi calling out the star player who just re-uped for Howard, correct me, if I'm wrong, $150 million this past off season,

I believe it was. Some crazy number. I don't know. I've stopped my head. I mean, this is just peak, Sixers behavior. Like of transparency, your MVP, All-Star, you know, chip play, blue chip player, just not showing up to team activities, being late, being lazy. Lord knows what it is.

This shows a level of just not commitment. Like, this is disgusting. As a Sixers fan, as a Philly fan, as, you know, first of all, everybody, listen to the Ringers Philly Special if you listen to this podcast. As a Philly fan, this is a Philly fan. this is what we don't want to hear. Like we want to hear our, he's been in the building, he's been rehabbing. He's trying to work out, get his knee right, get back in shape, get ready for everybody,

you know, to play with everybody, get used to playing with Caleb Martin, Paul George, all the new guys that are on the team. And he's not shown him to meetings. He's being late. This is some type of special, you know, star player treatment that just shouldn't be accepted at all. I'm disgusted by hearing this. I see why the sixers have a ton of problems to start the season early on here. Your best player's not in shape.

He's not committed. and, you know, and the Sixers staff is just not doing anything about it, according to Shams here. Ooh, boy. All right, so I have pulled up the story since. Roger looks like he's going to unload in a second here, but let me just read a couple more paragraphs from Shams's story on ESPN.com. He's referring to this meeting called by Kyle Lowry, obviously, veteran of that group. A much-needed heart-to-heart, this is Shams writing, a much-needed heart-to-heart. heart and a call to action and urgency sources stole ESPN in which both players and coaches held each

other accountable and took fault in the start of the season. In the meeting, Maxi challenged Abed to be on time to team activities, calling out the former league MVP about being late, quote, for everything, end quote, and how it impacts the locker room from other players to the coaching staff. Maxie and a beat of a close friendship and history of holding each other accountable, according to those around the team. Quote, Tyrese loves Bigfella, but this is the elephant in the room, person involved in the meeting told ESPN. players told 76ers coached nurse that they wanted to be coached harder, coaches and turns that they wanted players to practice with purpose and attention to detail.

Rajah, I'm sure you have been part of many, many, many team meetings, players-only meetings, emergency meetings, screaming matches, what have you. After everything that you just heard, what is that telling you about the Sixers right now? Oh, man, I don't know. Where do I start with that shit? I before before that story broke I fully intended to come on here and tell you guys everybody chill out like Philly just everybody calm down man like you know came in injured there was a lot of bullshit leading up to the season um you know we'll we'll figure this out let him get in shape I've only been in team meetings I haven't been in many Howard you would think but I was blessed I didn't play on bad teams not a lot of them I mean even good teams sometimes have that crisis moment where it's like guys what the hell are we doing yeah But so then let me get a little deeper than that. Even the bad teams I played on, and I did play on some, we didn't have dysfunction

in a way that we felt necessary to gather everyone together to have a come to Jesus. Let's all see it the same way. You could typically, even on good teams, when things went wrong, just figure it out. Like, yeah, we had those moments. Like, we slipped a little bit. But like, you know, a few of you go to dinner, your leadership. And, you know, we're going to talk about some of the things. And we're fine.

we don't have to bring everyone into that. That screams dysfunction. Like, now, I'm not saying that they can't be productive and you can't come out on the other side of one of those meetings better for it. But it just screams dysfunction. And then when you get to the essence of why we're having, some of the things that you, that you were, that you were, that Shams was quoted or had quoted people as saying in the article, like, coach me harder. Why the hell do I need Nick Nurse to coach me harder? I don't, I don't fucking need you to coach me harder. job. I'm out here trying to survive and trying to win. I don't need you to coach me harder.

Now, you know, if Nick Nurse has been made to feel like he has to walk on eggshells as it relates to to actually like holding people accountable, I mean, that's a bigger cultural issue, but he should feel free to do that. And I would honestly tell any coach, hey man, me, my kids, anything, bro. If they're not doing their job, absolutely stand up and let them know. That's your job. But generally speaking, I don't have to tell you to. to coach me harder. My job is to come in ready to play. Your job is to coach me and get me in the right positions. Having to call out Joelle and B, I don't care if they have a history of holding each other accountable. That means nothing to me. Like the fact that we have to have

this conversation with you is a problem. That is a huge issue for the player of your caliber, for a player that represents a city, one that got his ass to a microphone less than a month ago talking about all he's done for the city and yo ass ain't on time consistently bro that's a big problem for philly and you know i didn't mean to lose my shit but you know i was one of those guys that that like you know i was a hard hat blue collar type of player man like and i always respected a philly fan even when i got booed by philly fans for not being as good as they shot thought i should be in year two like sometimes i didn't think that was the most productive but i understand where you're coming from. And they didn't boo you if they felt like you were leaving

everything out on the court, even if you weren't as good as the next guy. But they don't stand for you guys, like, not putting forth the effort. Like, that's the one thing a Philly fan does not get over. Like, it's not always about winning and losing. It's about the perceived effort. Like, what are you willing to put into that in the effort to be the winner? And clearly, the Sixers are leaving a lot on the table in regards to that. And it starts with the big fellow. And Joel, like, I just say this. I give him a lot of credit for what I thought was maturation, you know, especially at the mic as he's gotten older.

And clearly he's a great player when he's healthy, especially offensively. But that is a huge red flag. When one of, when Tyrese maxi has to call you out for being late all to everything, that's bananas. Yeah. By the way, producer Cliff Beck's clarifying here, three years, is $193 million was the extension. So this is in the wake of the extension, but also, of course, in the wake of his knee surgery

earlier this year, in the wake of everything else he's gone through physically, Joelle Embed. And listen, Rajah, you know this. I have defended Embeded on this count that I don't think the Sixers' failures in the postseason, their lack of a conference finals appearance

and all that during his era, is not all on Joel Embed. Ben Simmons came and went and James Hardin came and went and Jimmy Butler was not retained by the franchise. These are all things that have nothing to do with Joelle Embed or his commitment or his fitness or his

desire. And he's been banged up a lot. And okay, some of that could be on him if you want to say, well, a lack of conditioning is what's led to him not being healthy at the time of year when they need him most. And that's been the case some years and not the case some years. Sometimes it's just happenstance. Sometimes it's just

you banged knees or somebody undercut you or whatever. It's not all on him. So I have defended Joel Embed on that count. I had not one who's thought just because he's been hurt and has needed to load manage. And even the stuff about not playing back to backs, this is the era we're in. Medical staff is going to tell you for your longevity and for the good of this team, we need to prolong your career. We want to make sure you're healthy in the spring.

So I'm not one who's left to the conclusion. as I've heard elsewhere, that Joelle and B. just simply doesn't care or doesn't want to play. He's not giving it as all. We've seen this guy in tears at times when they've fallen short. I think after the loss to Toronto the one year. Like, we've seen him in tears. We have seen him passionate. We have seen him win MVP. We saw him the season after winning MVP come back and playing even harder and averaging more than a point per minute played and was on a tear last season before the knee injury. So I don't think we should question his competitive drive or his desire. But all that said, and I have said those things before, when a report is landing, literally in the middle of us

taping, that he's late for everything. And Maxie's calling him out for that. That makes me start to wonder. And when I saw the way he played last night, I was sitting there going, is he just still, is he still hurt because I think that's part of this. I don't think he's fully recovered, frankly. And they have obscured this as they do. I don't think he's fully healthy. He's probably not fully in shape because of all the time he had spent off trying to rehab the knee. But then there's that there's that nagging question of, is he playing as hard as he could or should?

And when Maxie's now questioning his, you know, his commitment in terms of just being on time, you wonder if that's a stand-in for other things that may be a concern to that locker room, too. Let's let me, where to begin with this, Howard? Okay, I played basketball pretty much my whole life. 94 is when I went away to college. So from 95 to I don't know when I retired. But let's just use like 2010 maybe as a reference. From 95, all right, that's when I had to be somewhere on time.

practice at Boston University was at what, four o'clock. You had your classes, you had to do this and that. You're in that gym by 230, whatever it is with enough time where if anything went wrong in your daily life, like you have enough buffer if you're shooting to be there by 230 that if something goes wrong somewhere barring incarceration, but you're going to make it to practice. And you're going to make it with enough time to be there and get taped, get your treatment, get warm, all of that. So that starts in 95, right? All the way through my entire professional career. There's a time, there may be a time or two where you could point to something outside of your control in traffic or whatever. The only time that I started becoming really

lax with my habits was my last year in Utah. I had already got into some beefs with with with the front office. I had got into some beefs with the coach. I had two little boys at home, and we had just had our third son, right? I was distracted, and my focus had shifted. I've talked about this a lot. It's when I realized that I was no longer committed to doing this the way that I had been from 95 to 2011, because it was 12 that Zen was born. So only at that point did I start walking into the locker room mostly on time, Howard, but just not early. Okay? So like if practice is at 10, I'm walking in at 9.45, 930, 950 on a bad day.

And the worst was when I was getting a car wash one day and I didn't realize the time. But again, this is priority. I'm not thinking about my job in the way that I should be thinking about my job and fucking respecting it, that I lost track of time. and now I'm late for a shoot around with the jazz and rightfully got my ass handed to me. I say that to say that I was a 13-year vet at the time that had two kids, was barely being used, was relatively a shell of himself and as a player and was clearly not like as focused as I should be. I was not the face of a franchise getting 100 and how much money, Cliff?

it was three years, $192.9 million was the extension. Right. I was not that, right? And I was certainly not, you know, an MVP level player. And again, I don't know Joe L.MB. I know what happened. And I know why it happened. It speaks to a lack of commitment to what you're doing. Now, all that shit you said might have been true, Howard, about him crying, him averaging what he averages point per possession, all of that can be true. And I'm sitting here telling you from experience, when you start tricking off being where you're supposed to be, when everything about your quest as a basketball player, everything for the last two decades for him has been be there early, dude. Practices at 12, be there at 10. Practices at 1. Be there at 1130, my guy. That's life.

You set your clock by that shit. Now you're late to every single thing. That's a problem. Joel and B is a former MVP who's 30 years old 31 in March and he's being called out by the 24 year old younger co-star who's in his fifth season. Like that's even that is a bit of an indictment. Huge fun. Yeah. Because I'll make a lot of space as I just did for Joel having legitimate health issues and try to get back from those. Even more reason to be in the building early. Even more reason to be in the building early.

Like you just, and if your teammates are concerned about your commitment level, that to me is the most alarming part of it. So, you know, I'm sorry because I know, like, I get hot. It's who I am, right? Like, everybody in my house knows, like, I'm in chill mode and then all of a sudden I'm hot. As I'm thinking about what you're saying, you talked about kind of the revolving door of players that have come in. And I've been on record with you, Howard, is saying, like, not all of that's control. by Joel M. B. Like, he could be playing great and not be getting what he needs to supplement him

and they can't win it. And that's not all his fault. But, you know, you talked about all those pieces coming and going. There have been coaches who have come and gone. You know, Joel M. B's been a consistent, but it's bigger than Joel Embed. I talk about this a lot. Like, that is an organizational failure.

That's a culture that's been established, not by the head coaches that come and in and out of there, but by somebody above that, who I don't know. But there are too many pieces that change, right, around the fringes and with the coaches for you to consistently be sitting in the same spot for me not to point to somewhere above and say that's an organizational issue. And it could be the way he's treated, Joel and B, that is. It could be that he's coddled by someone above a coach in a way that there are no real ramifications for whatever he does.

And I'm not there. I don't know. I'm speculating. But something is consistent there. I mean, Joel Embed is one of the consistence. But I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt in the way, you know, because you raise kids, you raise young men when they come into the NBA and they're on your team. Like, you know, there'll be some bad apples.

He doesn't strike me as a bad apple, like a bad person. Strikes me as someone who's been spoiled, who's been coddled, who hasn't been held accountable consistently who's been allowed to slide in those gray areas of whether this is acceptable or not one too many times. And now this is what you got once he gets the bag and he becomes the megastar that Joel Embed has become. And that is something that starts at the top. And there has been, I think, a history, not just with Embedd, but when Simmons was there too, when it was Embed and Simmons, where I think this franchise has, through multiple front offices and multiple coaches, have all walked on eggshells around those guys and now MB.

And I'm sure that plays a part of this too. It's all concerning. It is still only 13 games in. There is still 85% of the season left. They are, let me go glass half. I don't say glass half full. Let's just say glass is not shattered on the floor yet. There are three games out of 10th place,

which is the final play in Spice. which is Charlotte right now. There are only four teams in the Eastern Conference, even over 500 right now. That's the Cavalier, Celtics, Knicks, and Magic. So there's plenty of room here to catch up. And they have yet to have a game with Maxie and Bede and Paul George together. They went all in on a really top heavy alignment here.

They went old school super team. And when you do that, it means that when any one of those guys or a lot of games, two of those guys have been out, the drop off is huge. You just don't have a lot of other guys to lean on. Kyle Lowry is in like, what, it was 18th season or something? And, you know, Andre Drummond, you know, they picked up in the offseason hoping he could, you know, fill in all the non-embied minutes and games and that hasn't worked out so well. There's just not a lot to lean on if Maxi, Paul, George, and Embed aren't all out there. And they haven't had a game with all three of them yet. So I still say, let's take a deep breath.

The players only, or the team meeting and the calling out of Joelle Bede, all concerning, but it is only November 19th. And I think in an Eastern conference where things are very unsettled, they've got plenty of room to turn this around. My lingering question here, Rajah for you is this. I just gave the, again, glass not quite shattered on the floor yet there's still time perspective on this. but I do wonder, is there a point of no return when you had too much early losing? You're in such a hole. You're in such a funk.

The vibes are so bad and you're calling each other out. Is it possible that a season can go off the rails this early just by being in a big hole with bad vibes? 100%. 100%. Now, I'm not, I'm with you in terms of on the court production, Howard. You touched on a lot of things in terms of those big three not playing together, Joelle and be not being healthy, they're positioning in the Eastern Conference and what's

still possible if they can figure out, you know, just, you know, how to kind of, those three skill sets, if you can be at 75% of yourselves, you know, I think there's room for it to be okay. To answer your question, and then I want to finish my thought, yes, things can go off the rails really early, especially when it's dysfunctional and toxic, right? And I'm not in that locker room. I'm just hearing the reports like you guys. so I don't know where they stand. But I would say this, with these reports, yeah, physically, you can look at it and be like, it's not complete panic mode.

There's physically time to do that. But what they have going on, rarely in a situation like that, does that team ever reach 100% of its potential? And so you might squeak in, you might get into the playoffs, but when you've got that type of stuff going on, you're not reaching maximum potential. So if you were thought of as a potential championship team, I don't think you recoup from something like this and become that. If they do, and I'm wrong, it would be maybe the greatest turnaround in NBA history. I mean, and honestly, I don't know if the stats would support that.

Anybody come out to gates two and 11 and win an NBA championship? I don't think so. Yeah, but you know what I mean? So it's just, yeah, they could be fine. and we can kind of smooth all this over and bury it. I would say it would be like, you know, probably like just right under the surface for most of the year. Like maybe it just doesn't boil over again, but you're not going to be what you potentially could be. That those cards have already been played.

That writing's on the wall. Yeah. And that's the part that's really sobering, right? Because turning around the season and becoming a playoff team, you know, even making a deep run, like all of that can make you feel better about the season. but if 2 and 11, like, without looking it up, I'm pretty certain that no one's ever started 2 and 11 won a championship. And the whole point of the exercise of signing Paul George to a very large contract that goes into his late 30s at a very high number and really has a lot of risk built into it

because the whole point of the exercise was to win a championship now. And if this season's already potentially sunk, not sunk in terms of making the playoffs, not sunk in terms of making maybe even, you know, winning a round or two. But if everything that's built up so far means, no, there's no chance of getting to the finals winning a championship, then there's another year burned. And now it's, okay, Paul George, another year older and Embed another year older. And, you know, it's, it's rough. That's rough.

But again, a lot of season left to play. So the, there's a couple of, there's a couple of. of the things, there's a lot of news. A lot of news happened since you and I last chatted Raja, which was only a few days ago. So let me just hit a couple of these real quick. Adam Silver apparently wants to change the All-Star game again, because for some reason, guys just don't want to play hard and the product now sucks and the league is understandably concerned. And every time they tinker, it just doesn't produce enough results. Elam endings and team captains picking their teams on live TV and everything else

and pledges from the players that, oh, we're going to play defense this time. We're going to, nothing's worked. It's all been crap. So now the reports over the weekend are that the league is tinkered with the idea. This is not final yet, but they are proposing an idea of a tournament. So you'd still have your 24 All-Stars, 12 from each conference, but they would be broken into three teams of eight.

and the fourth team in this new tournament style proposal would be the winner of the Rising Stars game. That's the Friday night rookie sophomore game. So there'd be a bracket competition here. I assume that these would be then shorter games, which might amp it up a little bit and maybe point of pride for the team that is facing the rookie sophomore team,

the All-Stars facing the rookie sophomore is like, don't want the young guys to kick your ass. So I can see the outline, without them having confirmed any of this on the record without them having actually outlined that this is exactly what they're doing and how I'm not sure. But just as a quick hit reaction here, Rajah, I'm up for anything that they'll try that at least abandons the old format because the old game, it's run its course.

It's just not being revived. So try anything. This sounds as good as anything else to me. Yeah, I mean, I guess I'm kind of with you. Like, I don't care. Doesn't move the needle for me. You're not bringing back the All-Star game. You tinker with it all you want.

You're not bringing it back. Guys are telling you that regular season games, of the 82 games that you're contracted to play before you get to the playoffs, it's worth it for them to not play in some in an effort to be healthy and spry for the playoffs. You think they give a shit about an All-Star format? Yeah.

You do whatever you want. It doesn't matter to me. I ain't watching it anyway. I'll be there for the three-point shootout skills in the dunk. I'm not watching it. Yeah. The Saturday night, and it depends on the year, right? Because the dunk competition itself has been declared dead many times.

And once again, I think we're in one of those fallow periods where it feels like the dunk contest is played out. But on a good, on a good year, the dunk contest is fun. The three-point, the three-point contest is bulletproof. Like that always, always worked. It is a just tried and true formula. Like that one, you can't screw up. The skills competition is lame. It's always, but the All-Star game itself is just, it's just toast because guys aren't going to play defense at an even respectable level of showing that they actually want to win that there's any pride involved.

The final score last year was 211 to 186. Like, that's not interesting. And for people who constantly, like, I'm going to. get it again. People like, oh, what do you want it about? You old guys want to go back to the old days. It's never going to happen. We're fine with this. No, you're not fine with it. You know, I know. I know you're not fine with it. Because not enough of you are watching it or interested in it. And the league wouldn't be tinkering with it if they were okay with it and enough of you liked it. If average fans are tuning out the All-Star game and or complaining about it or just losing interest, that's bad for the league.

Like if the, you know, anybody who's saying it's fine, we don't expect them to play hard. Yeah, I get that. I've never said where they should play it like it's game seven of the finals. But there has to be some level of pride in defense or it's not really a game at all. It's just a bunch of guys, you know, jacking up deep threes and throwing lobs and messing around. Like that's, that's just not interesting. And the league clearly is concerned or they wouldn't keep trying to face it. Yeah. I mean, look, I, you know why everyone, you know why the three points shootout? like people are always given an earnest effort in that.

Like they go there and they're like, yeah, I'll compete in that. It doesn't, you're not going to get injured. It doesn't require a whole lot of physical output. You'd have to trip over your own feet or the ball rack. Yeah. I mean, and, and, you know, you're not required to really in any way being, you know, at your A level of output physically for any extended period of time. And that's what that weekend, that's what players are looking for in that space of time

in this season is a rest. And, and I don't know, you know, they've already stretched the break, I think, back when I played them, you were back on Monday, you were back on Monday evening. Yeah. Like, it wasn't even, it didn't even make sense to go play in it if you, if you didn't have to because you got no break. Now I think they get a little break, but that's what people are looking for there. Like these, even in an all-star format, um, even with guys going out there and, playing 50% of defense and 75% of offense, let's say, and just cruising. There's a lot that goes into that day, like getting ready to play, warming up, getting your body fired up to do it, going out there and competing.

It is a long day. And the other part about All-Star Weekend that people don't realize is just how many obligations players have from a media perspective and so on and so forth. Like, it's, it can be an, and, you know, you're trying to get out a little bit and see everybody that's in the town and, and enjoy your few, your few days off where you know there's nothing, you know, like three days after it. So you might be able to get loose in a way that you don't normally get loose. Like, that's a lot. And guys are just like, I'm not, not interested in jeopardizing my body in that way. The three point shootout shit, I'll shoot a couple racks. Even a dunk competition. You know how much energy it is to go out there and like, and be dunking for an hour? I do not know how much energy that takes. I wish I knew. I wish I could relate to what that is. I have no.

And this is going to sound crazy. I avoided major injury my whole career, right? We were in Oklahoma City. I was playing with the jazz. Gordon Hayward and those dudes were like messing with me. Like I couldn't do a windmill, right? So, you know, I was old. Nobody really sees me dunk anymore.

So I went up, windmilled it and felt a click in my knee. Right? I took a knot, I took a like a chunk out of my troaklier notch like and and had a knee that would give out on me for the rest of the season. Like, and that was just from effing around and trying to dunk a basketball. So like for people who say, hey, you know, get injured into dunk out bullshit. Now they might not have been like 30 odd change like I was, but like the point is there's some risk there in a way to dudes are like, yo man, I'm not interested in that. Yeah. I will just say about the All-Star game itself, the last thought on this. It's just that, again, not expecting

game seven type level, but playing hard, competing, playing a little bit of defense, putting up some resistance is all anybody's asking for, and guys play literally meaningless pickup games all summer in which they actually do defend some and play hard. They don't play an NBA hard level, but they play. No, they compete. And they're not getting hurt in the summer. Sometimes they are, But if you can't even play at pickup level intensity in the All-Star game, the way you do in the summer, there is no more risk of injury in February than there is in August, Roger. I mean, that's, I watch the pickup games sometimes now. They also are not like the pickup games that I remember.

Like, you're conceding buckets. Like, they play a little defense until it's time to shoot and then it's concession. Like, if you get anywhere near the rim, it's a concession because dudes aren't trying to hurt each other. No, no, no, for sure. Don't challenge guys at the rim in an All-Star game. No, but I mean even in pick-up. Like, we used to play pickup, bro. We were a pickup.

Yeah, if I get in, like, we were playing, you know, and so the whole, I don't care. Like, I'm not the old grudgeon saying, oh, I don't play. Look, games changed. Priorities have changed. Like, some of us might have been healthier had we not taken it so serious at times, right? But, like, the point is it's hard. It's really hard to, like, put a regulator on, like, hey, we're going to, to go 75% or 50% like it's just really hard yeah um i want to get to the mailbag we're run a little

low on time so i will just skip past the NBA on tn t inside the NBA moving to ESPN i'll just say real quick i'm thrilled to hear this there had been rumblings for a while that somebody would find a way to kind of keep the show revive or just keep the show under turner's production which is what it's going to be. It's going to stay in Atlanta. It's going to be the same crew. I think all the same people behind the cameras and everything else, too, which is great because the spirit of that show is more than just the four guys at the desk. It is, it's so many other people at Turner. So I'm just happy that everybody's keeping their jobs. I'm happy that we, the fans and media and everybody still get to watch just a phenomenally entertaining studio show.

It's one of the best parts of the NBA. Yeah. So that going away would have been just such a lost. So kudos to everybody, the league, ESPN, Turner, everybody for figuring this out. That's awesome. Mailbag. We have a mailbag. And we're going to take two from the actual email account, which is, Raja, I keep forgetting. Real ones, mailbag at gmail.com. Real ones mailbag at gmail.mell.com. Damn it. Thank you. That third one's the trick. We do have some there. And then I've got one from blue sky. But let's let's hit the mailbag first.

Cliff, what we got? All right, so I'm doing the switch up since you already did a deep dive on the sixers here, so I want to do something else that I just looked inside the email there. Roger, one more time, what is it? Real ones mailbag at gmail.com. You said that nice and slow. All right. Hey, guys, love the discussion this week on trying to come up with ideas and ways to make

the cup feel different and more impactful. I think to make everyone care, we need all five participating facets. And some incentives, owners, front office, players, fans, and media. How about the following ideas? Number one, to make it worth a push for owners in front office, the first and second place gets some sort of a salary cap tax break. Number two, for fans and players, first and second place gets some on paper extra wins on their playoff ranking seating. Let's say plus three wins. If you are a team in eighth place, this might mean escaping the play in or home court in the first round for others. The extra wins won't count for lottery tanking teams.

The extra discussions on salary cap and extra wins possibility will also help generate some new content for media. Love the show in your perspective, Daniel. All right. Thank you, Daniel. Roger, what do you think? I like the first one. I like that. That's a really huge incentive, as is the second one.

I couldn't parse out. My brain doesn't work fast enough to kind of parse out all the, all of the ramifications and possible scenarios if you're giving people extra wins for winning that. Like, I didn't get to process that fully. But I could see where he's coming from. And I definitely like the first idea of. of some extra incentive or relief, if you will, from an apron by way of, you know, more cap if you were going to win it. That's a big incentive.

Yeah. It's interesting because so far the incentive, they're all team incentives, right? They're player incentives. It's, you know, they think they make a half million more each per player. And, you know, the fans, whatever bragging rights are or a point of pride are like, hey, my team won it. I guess there's something there. But I sympathize with this perspective in that there's nothing baked into it that feels weighty as a fan other than just, okay, there's a cup.

But what does that cup mean as I've gone over before? So the idea of like your team earns, whether it's a salary cap break, extra consideration in the playoff seatings, that to me feels weightier. Like it can't the cup does not stand on its own. I'm sorry. Even after 10 years, I don't think it's going to stand on its own, as I've said. I do think there needs to feel like there's something more at stake. And if it's only at stake for the players, that translates to competitive level, intensity level.

And that makes fans more interested. Fine. But I'm with Daniel, our listener here. I think something where the fans can say, awesome, man. My team not only won the cup, but now they're going to have a little bit more flexibility to sign another role guy next summer. Or they're going to get, you know, people have suggested like, you know, sandwiched one more pick at the end of the round before the second round and give the winner of the NBA Cup an extra pick. The downside of those things, of course, is when you start incentivizing a team or trying

to incentivize them based on a salary cap break or an extra player of some kind, whether it's a draft pick or whatever, those guys might cut into the players who are currently on the roster, so now you're possibly making yourself obsolete. That's not the case, though, for the rotation guys. That might be the case for your, you know, 10th through 15th man. But I do think like that the team, that the franchise benefits in a way other than monetarily will make it more interesting for the fans. The fans will feel like they have a stake in it because they're saying my team just got another advantage and I'm happy about that. So I like the thinking there.

I don't know if the league will ever go that way. I know they've kicked around some of these things. And who knows? Maybe that'll come to pass somewhere down the line. But I think it'd be really interesting, especially if you're like a middle of the pack to lower team, you know you're not going to win a championship in June, but you might be able to win this and get something else out of it aside from just a few extra bucks. I don't know. I like the thought process. Yeah, I'm with it. I like it. You don't want to go to the next question. Howard and Raja, big fan of the pod. I was wondering, Raja, if you had any fun stories from your Utah days that you could share. I loved hearing your stories about Jerry Sloan. I was curious if you had any about Dewell, Boozer. et cetera. That's from James Steiner. James, thanks for listening.

I thought I've always said that. Jerry, Jerry was a character. I'm trying to think DeWills. No, I don't have any specific. I've told my D. Will story with Jerry, the night of the last night that, that Jerry coached our team was against Chicago. And we used to run a play. I think it was called like four up. It was on one side of the court.

Four down. It would be on the left side of the court. I think I got that right. Four up would be on the right side of the court. It was the exact same play for the exact same personnel. Just happened to be on one side of the court or the other. And I think Jerry called four up. I'm trying to run this back in my mind.

And when we came out of the huddle to start the game, DeWill was talking to Paul Millsap or Al Jefferson. who it was. And, you know, as a good PG, he knew his personnel. And he was like, no, he's going like that on the other side. So we'll run four down. So we, we played the whole first half. I didn't see any, any real, like, beef between them in any way, shape, or form. But half time, it got electric. Like, Jerry Sloan came in there yelling and screaming, you, you changed the play. I called this and you did that. And they went around the corner with, I think it was Greg Miller at the time. And, you know, our training room didn't have walls that went all the way to

the ceiling. So you could hear the argument going on. And you're like, oh, shit. So like at half time we came out. And, you know, I remember coming over to the bench and we did our little thing. And then Darren kind of went on on the court and Jerry grabbed me. And he was like, hey, tell Darren, we're going to, we want to do this. And then Darren would be like, hey, tell Jerry, we're going to do that. And I'm like, Oh, okay. So I'm just going to be playing telephone the whole half. And then after the game, Jerry came in and hit us with the, you know, one, two, three, jazz or whatever.

Jerry came in and he said, one, two, three, good luck. And I remember all of us kind of looking at each other like, oh, okay, that was different. I came in for treatment the next morning. One of those mornings I was talking about with Joel, where I'm there early. We don't have practice, but I got to get my treatment. And they were like, yeah, Jerry already had a press conference. He retired. I was like, wait, what?

So that's the way that went down. And then sitting in the training room again, Gary Briggs, Brian Zettler, in a hotel suite in Dallas, with Darren sitting right next to me on the couch. Both of us have our legs up. Our ankles are getting taped or whatever. We're watching Sports Center. And across the bottom, I don't know, weak. I don't remember the timeline of it. This is a home game for Darren.

He's from Dallas. The ticker, it goes across the ticker. Darren Williams traded to the New Jersey Nets for X, Y, and Z. And he looked at me and I looked at him. And he was like, I forget exactly what he said, but he got up and he left the training room. And that's how he got traded. And so that was my Jerry slash Darren story.

Boo's, it was pretty crazy. Booze always threw great Super Bowl parties. Him and C.C. at the time, they always threw great Super Bowl parties. We had a blast, though. Like our, you know, I was there the year after stock, um, retired, uh, mail went to L.A. And we weren't great. It was like me, Carlos Soroyo, Andre Carlinco, Matt Harper and Curtis Bortchert. We had a, a weird team.

Um, I think we fell short at a playoffs like two years in a row. We had a blast. Like Deshawn Stevenson, Mo Williams. Like Jerry got the most out of what we had. We probably had no business barely missing the playoffs. But those were some of my favorite times as an NBA player. Real talk. Love it.

Story time with Raja. No doubt. Always a good thing. I don't just remember that the Darren Williams trade just shocked everybody because it's not that people weren't aware. I don't think people knew the extent of the divide between him and Jerry and how bad that had gotten. But also everybody was so fixated on Carmelo and the mellow drama, as we called it back then. And the Nets and Nicks were jockeying for for Carmelo.

And when the Nicks got Carmelo, the Nets pivoted to get Darren Williams. You know what's interested about that, Howard? Not to keep building off of the story, but I didn't either. And so when it was time to resign there, like, or when it was time to sign, I couldn't went to the Bulls. The money was the same. The Bulls was going to be a two-year deal. Utah was a three-year deal.

And we were going to lock out. So I could make some of it up in a way with the three-year deal. that I wasn't sure, you know, in terms of the lockout, how much we were going to get to play. So I went with the three-year deal and the familiarity and we had a really good team, right? So I got out there and we were in a practice and things, you know, offense was kind of intricate. You had to plan it for a while to get it. And it was Al Jefferson's first year. I had seen it before, but we just weren't clicking.

And so Darren was like, hey, man, let's stay a little bit after practice and work on this. And everybody was like, cool, let's do it. So we stayed, coaches left, we were working at it. Nothing but what the coaches were instructing us to do, just getting some extra work at. And I look over and I see Jerry kind of in the stairwell peeking through the window. And he's hot because I know him. I played for him. I'm like, you know, he don't look happy.

So I went out and I'm like, Jerry, well, you're good. Oh, he was fucking upset. He was, you know, that's when I was like, I was awakened to the fact that there was some real beef thing. because he was not happy and thought it was an undermining thing and thought Darren was trying to do some stuff. And I was like, Jerry, this is not what you think, brother. Like, I promise you, man. We are not in there doing anything other than what you guys are teaching. And that was my first inclination.

Like, oh, we got a problem. I will say, I started covering the league in 97 and the Lakers played the jazz in the playoffs that year. And so, you know, on the off days, you're always doing both teams at that point. When you're a beatwriter, you're mostly covering your own team. So you're just, you're fully immersed. And so you don't always even see the other coach or the other locker room, depending on how things are going on a game night. But in the playoffs, because it's multiple games, there were multiple days,

and you're in the other city also for multiple days. So now you're at all the off day stuff. And so I just remember, like the Jerry Sloan scrums, it's like how people see pop now. If people see pop, and you think like, oh, wow, that's a little tense. Like, oh, man, must be a little nerve-wracking to be a reporter in those press conferences sometimes. That was Jerry Sloan.

Like, Sloan was one of the few guys who I was intimidated by. Like, do not ask the wrong question. Do not even ask the right question the wrong way. If it's not precise, he's going to come back at you, like, ask you to, which is good. Like, it keeps you on your toes. It sharpens you as a reporter. It's generally a good thing. But Jerry Sloan, really kind-hearted, big-hearted guy on a human level.

But as a coach, especially as a rookie reporter, yeah, I was a little nervous about him. Good. for good reason. I was nervous. Not a lot of coaches made me nervous. I love Jerry. Yeah. Yeah. Real talk. Yeah. All right. That's it for the mailbag, except for the bonus item from Blue Sky. Ben Stiller, friend of the show, Ben Stiller, hit me on Blue Sky. Glad to have you on Blue Sky, Ben. Appreciate it. He did say he was going to send this to the mailbag also, but he didn't. So, Ben, I'm just going to read it anyway because you already put it out there. I'm trying hard not to fan out. Really, really difficult.

Go ahead. Ben asked, what are your court skills, Howard? The one question I really don't want to answer here. He says, do you have a shot? And would you or have you ever played a little one-on-one with Raja? Oh. My response to him on blue sky, as I will repeat here, I said, basketball-wise, I'm somewhere between the pre-wearwolf version of Michael J. Fox and Teen Wolf.

And Philip Seymour Hoffman and along came Polly, a great Ben Stiller movie. I'm somewhere in that range. And at this age, I'm not even that. And then I noted that the last time I even attempted to play pickup was in 2012, and I blew up my ACL trying to drive on Tim Bond Temps, then of the New York Post, now of the ESPN. So I'm done. I'm done.

Even if Rajah and I were in the same city, Ben, there would not be any one-on-one being played. unless it was like one-on-one in backgammon or something, something that does not involve risking mineies or Rajas. Or mine. I know that's right. I know that's right. Unless huge fan, like real talk, it's really hard for me right now because I am like of all of the work. But I don't know what I would look like, Howard. I mean, I don't know what I would look like.

You play no pickup. Do you play against your kids? Nope. I mean, nothing. I'm afraid of the Achilles tear, which a lot of guys my age who like to play rec basketball, like every rec gym you go in that has like a noon game or a Sunday morning game, somebody in there in the last year has torn their Achilles. And I don't want to be that, too, because I'm not in the type of shape to just hop out and really hoop.

And you don't get to, you don't really turn it off. You think you can do things. And then you're like, uh-oh, what was that? And then there it went. So for those reasons, I couldn't. I couldn't. I wouldn't. I'd be like the guy in Teen Wolf.

Who is the dude? They played against the guy on the other team that was like the antagonist in it. Like I would, I'd be like him. It's been so long since I even saw the movie. God, that movie was bad. It's funny because it's become like this cult classic people love Teen Wolf. I'm like, I just remember in real time when it came out. Like the movie was like just widely destroyed because it was just preposterous.

So yeah, there you go. I had no business even getting on the court and playing pickup in 2012, much less now in 2024. So I will not be repeating that mistake. I will save my knees for the occasional run to the mountains to go skiing. And hopefully I survive that as well. All right. That's it for the mailbag.

We do have one more item to get to, as I alluded to in the opening. Our longtime producer, Jonathan Kerma, Kerm, is moving on to bigger, better things within the ringer verse. He is not leaving the ringer. He's just got a shit ton on his plate. He's a talented dude. He's in high demand across a whole bunch of shows, including one of my personal favorites, which of course is 60 songs that explain the 90s, which is now 60 songs that explain the 90s, colon the 2000s with Rob Harvilla. Kerm is a big part of the production team there. He's just got a lot going on. We are in phenomenal hands here with Cliff on Tuesdays and Isaiah on Fridays. So we're good, but I did not think we could, we didn't get to properly say goodbye to Kerm because he's not,

he's not producing. So I thought we should say a proper goodbye. And since I've only been doing this for a year, the real proper goodbye should come, Raja from you and our guy, Logan. And Logan was kind enough to send us a quick message for Kerm. What up? Logan, live from leave, calling in to say goodbye to our beloved Kerm. A few years ago, Kerm came to the Real Ones family to be an executive producer for the show and I was super excited and he completely transformed the show

with his skits, with his ideas, just with his overall energy that will be missed. Love you, man. Don't go too far. always welcome back into the universe. We love you so much, man. Go kick ass in your next venture, man. Big love. Talk to you soon. And to the rest of the real ones, I will talk to you guys soon as well. Hope you guys holding down the forward. Hope it's all going good. Shout out to all the affiliates. Shout out to everybody. Talk to y'all soon. Peace. Yeah.

Nice. Chills. Actual chills, Raja. The voice of Logan Murdoch. back on the real ones after months. That's awesome, man. Gonna miss you, Logan on parental leave, just to reiterate to people when he said, coming from leave, he meant he's on parental leave.

He will be back before you know it. But sorry, go ahead, Roche. No doubt. No, I was just, I mean, Logan summed it up. We're going to miss you, Kerm.

Good luck. Thank you for everything. Brother, always part of the family, dog. Yeah. Reiterate all of that. Kerm, huge part of the show. Made a lot of fun. His energy,

obviously his production skills, his Laker Rants, we'll be missed. We'll have to have, he's got to come back. Kerm's going to have to come back just do a special guest cameo or something, if for no other reason than to do a bad British accent for an email.

Cliff, as I understand it, is going off to accent school. Isaiah and Cliff are being sent to accent school to see if they can approximate Kerm's British accent expertise. Top Boy, Netflix. I'm going to try my British one and I'm going to try my Patois. You know me?

That's Jamaican accent. I'm going to try it. I'm going to try it. Ting Zagwan. Wangwan. Waguan Delilah. We will work at all that. But yeah, all the best to Kerm.

All the best to Logan and family. And look forward to getting him back sooner than later. I don't know. We'll see. Stay tuned on that. That's it for today's show. we will be back Friday, probably with a guest, still working on it. In the meantime, come find me and Rajabelle on Blue Sky.

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