The Ringer NBA Show - Uh-oh, the Warriors Look Invincible Again | The Mismatch (Ep. 373)

Episode Date: January 22, 2019

The juggernaut Golden State Warriors look unstoppable as of late (4:10) and Carmelo Anthony looks to return to the court (15:00). Plus: Which players could benefit from a change of scenery at the trade deadline? (25:43) Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. Before you start the show, I wanted to tell you about our brand new podcast called Tea Time. It's a bi-weekly pop culture show on the Channel 33 feed where me, Kate Hallowell, and Amelia Weddemeier, have four minutes in each category to get our strongest opinions about what's happening in the celebrity world at large. The episodes air every other Friday afternoon and you can subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Marne and joining me as he does every Tuesday from the The ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k.a. Kevin O. Concert, A.k.a. Kevin O. Kahnerker, A.k.a. Kevin O. Kavanaughan. Chris, that was a beautiful, beautiful note that Bill Walton left your son. It is really touching. I loved it. For those that didn't see, I did post that yesterday. I had the opportunity to meet Bill Walton. He, along with Candace Parker, Wayne Embry and Chris. Chris Bosch were all in town to receive the National Civil Rights Museum, which happens to be in Memphis Sports Legacy Award.

And it was the first time that I had ever met Bill Walton. And here's a quick little story, Kevin. He did come to my studio for my local show yesterday, and he walks in and I tried to talk to him. And he puts his hand up, like, no. And I tried to say something else. And he was like, save it for the air. and I was like, so like, I tried to say something else. Like, I was just like trying to get him set up in his chair and the,

and the microphone or whatever else, right? He looked at me again. He puts his hand up. He goes, shave it for the air. And I said, hey, man. It's so, like, I tried to say something else. And he goes, save it all for the air. Save it for the show.

And he, like, is looking at my producer and he's like, tell me when there's 20 seconds. And he's, like, doing these exercises and stuff before he goes on the air. air, right? He's like, stretching out and, like, doing all these exercises. It's like you're looking in a corner and a boxer's like shadow boxing before the fight's about to start, right? He's like doing these exercises and whatever. Are we talking vocal exercises or physical exercises? No, no, no, no, no. I'm talking about like if you're moving your arms up in air, like almost like a, like a half a jumping jack or something, right? And then my producer, he says, he says 20 seconds and he puts his headphones on and he sits that microphone. I mean, the music starts playing.

I mean, the red light comes on and it is showtime for Big Bill Walton. But the greatest thing was I asked him after it was all over. I said, hey, you know, it's weird because the generation of children now are so much more aware of legends of the game because of NBA 2K and because of YouTube. So my son has a real awareness of who Bill Walton is and what a legend he is. And so I said, hey, could you, you know, just sign a piece of paper for him? And then he proceeded to write this letter of which my son was just through the roof. Obviously, I'm going to get it framed and keep it forever. And it said, chase your dream, change the world. Please save us from ourselves. Bill Walton, 1993. It was great. And what was even more great was Katie Baker from the ringer reached out to me. And she had written an article, a very long article about Mike Brue. for the ringer, which had an amazing Bill Walton story in it. And there were a lot of people that passed around their experiences with Bill Walton to me. And virtually everyone that has ever come in contact with him has some kind of great story about their interaction. And there's

so many people that absolutely swear by the guy. I guess, at least for a day, I got to experience it. It's pretty beautiful. We're lucky to have Bill Walton. He inspires people. That's for sure. Last night, you went to a basketball game. That idea. The Lakers versus the Golden State Warriors. You saw NBA history with Clay Thompson, knocking down 10 consecutive three-pointers. Obviously, the Lakers are in a tough spot right now without guys, major players for their team, not the least of which is LeBron, but recently lost Lanzo Ball. Which, just aside, don't real quick, Kev, when I saw the injury and the replay, that did not,

look nearly as bad as the prognosis. I didn't think. You know, when I saw, sometimes you see it and you're like, oh, God, no, I don't know. The replay didn't look that bad to me, but obviously they announced yesterday that he's going to be out for an extended amount of time. So, you know, it's not the best representative of what the Lakers are, but you did get to see the Warriors again in person. I know you had recently just seen them in Denver. Biggest takeaways from what you saw last night. Clay Thompson is fixed after that early season, you know, sputtering where he had the one just magnificent game. Other than that, he was shooting poorly by his standards enter the season. But this whole month, he's shooting over 50% from three.

Around since Christmas or so, he's been on fire. Clay Thompson's back. He's back at playing on an all-star level, which he really previously was not for Golden State. So I think they're at a point now where they're starting to hit that stride where it's possible, where they're playing a level where they could rattle off 20 wins easily. And also, DeMarcus cousins, aside from Clay Thompson,

he's looking pretty good. I mean, he was only two for nine last night. But I think the way he's been utilized within that offense, he's passing the ball extremely well, just like he did prior to the injury. As the scoring comes back, boy, I mean, I think looking back

at our initial reactions to, oh, goodness, like they got the Marcus Cousins too. That might have been, for good reason, because he looks great. on. Yeah, we had wondered how he was going to fit within the context of the Golden State Warriors, who are certainly a wide open, turned you over, or catch the ball off of the rim, and start flying down to their spots in transition and banged down threes. How does, I don't want to say plotting, because he's not necessarily plotting, but he could have

been plotting post-Aquillies injury. Sure, right. We didn't know what he's going to look like. Well, it's ruined careers. Yeah, guys are just never the same. at least for the most part, West Matthews, even though he did, thank God for him, get his big contract. He's not the same. Mario Chalmers was never the same after his Achilles. It has, it's a devastating injury to have.

But in terms of how he fits within the Golden State context, and it's going to be a work in progress. But what do you see so far? I mean, I think with Boogie, look, he's only faced the Clippers and the Lakers. Like, there's going to be greater challenges moving forward. I mean, this is the Lakers without LeBron and not just without LeBron, but without Lanzo and without Rajan Rondo.

For teams that have a really, really strong pick and roll attack, that'll be a new challenge for Boogie to see how he moves defensively, how he can either switch onto the perimeter, how he can hedge or drop. Teams are going to attack him. They're going to challenge to Marcus Cousins. It's always been a question with him, and it's definitely going to be a question moving forward as the teams and the challenges get tougher for the Golden State Warriors.

However, as I said, I think on the offensive end of the floor, he already looks comfortable within that option. I think he's made smart, quick decisions. Like, you mentioned how they play, Chris. That balance that he can offer, it just throws a new look out there for Golden State. All through the year, they've always, they attack the post. When they feed the post, Kevin Durant's really the only guy that looks to score from the post. Usually when they feed the post, it's pass first for everybody, every big man when they're posting up, they're looking to pass.

The Marcus Cousins can do that, but he's also going to be a guy that's going to get a lot of single team coverage who could be facing switches against smaller players that may force a double team because he's on a smaller guy. I think that's where he's going to make the greatest difference is on the post because even though Golden State takes a lot of three-point shooters, having him gives them just another guy that they can feed in the post

and he can facilitate from there. And also help them get to the rim more because Golden State doesn't get many at-room opportunities. Yeah, you think over to this run with Golden State, the opportunity was to always, you know, the teams that were able to really, really push them, were the teams that were able to do it through defense, slow the games down,

and then in large part, destroy them on the boards, punish them for playing small. They are at their best when they are playing small. And so whether it was Zach Randolph and Mark Gasol, or whether it was that triumphant of Serge Abaca and Stephen Adams and Enos Canter, who they brought in.

Tristan Thompson? Yeah, right. I mean, Tristan Thompson, you go back to even that series, You're talking about like 15 rebound games that this guy was having. And so can you punish them for playing their best lineups sometimes and be able to make it to where if they miss, you get the ball? And if you miss, you get the ball. You're just killing them on the offensive glass on a regular basis.

And the truth is, he takes that away. You know what I'm saying? Like in the case that somebody wants to go big and supersize it and say, you match. up with us and we're going to make you pay for having Draymond guard our center or we're going to make you pay for having Iguodala guard our power forward or whatever it may be. That's all off the table now, Kiv, right? The one thing you could do to be able to, you know, really make them uncomfortable, if you've got cousins that you can throw out there, like that that's no longer an advantage.

Yeah. Yep. That's what worries me as you watch them now. So we talked ourselves into somebody having a chance this year, right? And over the course of the last week, you were there. I mean, they killed Denver. We talked herself into it, but then it's also like, eh, am I just having delusions? You mentioned that Denver game, Chris?

I know. Since Christmas, since they had that really tough loss against the Lakers, they're 10 and 2, their two losses have been by one point in overtime against Portland and Houston. This team is starting to really click. and with, I think they have 10 games left until the All-Star break, winners of eight in a row. It just feels like they're starting to really click.

I think if they don't win all, the next eight, probably seven of them. That's not unreasonable to assume despite having some difficult games. That came against Denver last week. Oh my goodness. Have we ever seen anything like that? 51 points in the first quarter,

the way they came out in that game. Let me tell you this, Kev, 38 is a great quarter. A great quarter. Denver, yeah, scoring 38. That's what Denver had. 38 is, like, that's the most shocking thing of all of it. And I don't know if you remember this, but one of the first podcast we did years ago was, we did this like, it was like a holiday wishes, like our Christmas wishes, what we would want to see post-new year. And one of the things that I said on that podcast was, I want to see a 50-point quarter. We've had multiple. 50 point quarters in the last couple of years. Since we did that, Houston's had a 50 point quarter, and obviously you were there in the media section for that Golden State Denver game. I mean, there shouldn't be enough time.

You've only got 12 minutes. Right? You've only got 12 minutes. How are you scoring over four points per minute? There should be a time constraint that doesn't allow that to take place. And yet, there they are. We saw another 50 points. quarter and that night, that's just downright scary.

I mean, because none of them could miss. Durant's like perfect from the field. Thompson's perfect from the field. That was just a tsunami. I'm at the point with this team where, you know, we're ways into this dynasty right now, assuming they win it again, which it would be, to me, surprising if they don't. I mean, I'd take them over the field right now. Assuming this could be the last year, but Katie could leave and go to the Knicks.

And Marcus Cousins will be really tough for them to re-sign him because of the amount of that they can offer compared to other teams. I believe they can only offer around $5 or $6 million, depending on what other moves happen, while other teams can offer whatever. I'm going to just try to enjoy this, right? Like this juggernaut, this team with five all-stars. You've got to try to enjoy it, man.

I'm feeling it. We may never see this again, ever. We may never see this again, Chris. Five old stars? Look, when I was in Denver last week, when I was in Denver, I was standing pre-game, waiting for Michael Malone's pre-game.

And it's just funny. it's like Draymond walks in with Katie right behind him. Then DeMarcus cousins comes. And then Stefan Curry comes. It's just like a train of all-stars walking through. It was like, it's Claynex, it's Claynex. And it wasn't. Like the streak was broken, but it was four all-stars walking in a row.

The point, it's crazy. Well, what? Clay Thompson's like the best player on what? Like 15, 20 teams in the league right now. You know what I mean? And he hasn't had a good season until recently. He's third best. Right.

Third or fourth, depending on how you value Dremond with the current season that he's having. Depends on, depending on how you value Dremont, there is no argument that he's at the top two. So now, when your third best guy could be the best player on half the teams in the league, it seems like there's a problem. But no, you know what I was chuckling about is when you got on this little diatribe about, you know, I'm just going to enjoy it. Yeah. You know what that means. I know what's coming next now, Kevin. What?

The don't take the Warriors for granted tweet. Yes, it is. It's not coming. It's not coming. I feel it. I feel it. It's coming. Don't take the Warriors for granted tweet.

It's coming. Is it already in your drafts? No, it's not. No, maybe it's not a bad idea. Hey, I'll tell you this. I'm going to tweet that out one night when they're having an amazing game. You'll get ratioed. I know I will.

But I'm going to, I'm going to tweet that out. Don't take the Warriors for granted. And then I'm just going to put in parentheses, Kevin O'Connor voice. Oh, boy. Don't take them for granted, Kevin. Yeah, I mean, we shouldn't because we'll look back at this time and be like, man, that was kind of cool seeing all those great players on one team. I don't know how fondly I'll remember it.

Thank goodness that's over. You might just be saying. Yeah, when everybody said it ruined the league. Hey! It might have. Let me ask you about being in that arena last night, and I know that there are conversations that go on amongst the media and people involved with the team.

Was there any talk last night about what everybody feels is an inevitability, and that is Carmelo Anthony wearing a Lakers jersey? I don't think I had any conversations last night from what I can remember. Oh, I did have one. Pre-game. Pre-game, it was mentioned that it would be depressing of Carmelo Anthony Canter Lakers, but I think, I think, I think, I think, who said that, Brandon Ingram? LeBron, actually, no, I'm just kidding.

But I do think for this is real, this is talking about a depressing statement. Carmelo was at least an upgrade over Michael Beasley for the 15th player on your roster. Him wearing the wrong shorts the other day was just an all-timer. Yeah. Is the absolute best. That's so great. You know, it's so funny. I don't want to slander him, right?

Because he's such an eccentric, funny personality. Oh, yeah. But years ago, David Fisdale, who is now the current head coach of the Knicks, was talking about, he was asked to talk about Russell Westbrook in the season he was having when he was averaging that triple double. And he goes on this speech, and he's like, hey, I don't want to, I don't want to make it sound like I'm piling on Michael Beasley, because Beasley has had this great career, whatever.

He said, but when I was with the Miami Heat, we drafted Michael second overall. And he said, and we get to Vegas for Summer League, right? And you're going to go through the practices and whatever. And he might have been coaching the summer league team at that point. It would stand to reason he was considering he was a top assistant for Spolstra for many, many years. And he says, we've got our first workout, you know, and it's like, whatever, 10 o'clock in Vegas. And he says, and so we get to the gym, and he's not there. And he says, I'm telling this story not to pile on Michael Beasley, but rather to explain to you, Russell Westbrook, who had already been in the gym for two hours and was pouring with sweat.

And there was nobody there was nobody there. And he said, and we had to go to the hotel and wake up Beasley. And he said, the second I saw that, I could have told you that Russell, Westbrook was going to be one of the great players in our league. And so it was weird. It wasn't necessarily a story about Beasley, but I remember it as a story about Beasley and the fact that they had to go wake him up, right? Like in Vegas right after they had drafted him.

And I always think of that, like when I see something goofy, like what happened the other night with him trying to check in the game with those black shorts on, that was unbelievable. Unbelievable. You know, I think with stuff like that, it reminds me. of the conversation a couple years ago when Michael Beasley did the podcast with Taylor Rooks and he was talking about how he's like, you know how the human

humans only use 10% of their brain, right? He's like, what happens when the guy, who's the guy that's going to be able to use it 11% of his brain or something like that? And that went viral and everything, wearing his goat in New York shirt. I hope, like, if there's ever something in real life, like the movie

Limitless or transcendence, those movies where, like, you can take a pill and become smarter or whatever. I hope Michael Beasley's the number one candidate for that. In retrospect, we should have not called this podcast The Mispatch, but rather 11% of your brain. Or something to that effect. Is it back to the Carmelo thing? Obviously, he now no longer has that contract with the Houston Rockets, the Bulls.

They're not exactly acquiring Carmelo Anthony to help them. Oh, by the way, what happened yesterday with league office being closed, not being able to make that Carmelo trade? happen. Jeez, that stinks for Houston having to come with James Neloli. That's sorry, I was on a 10-day, but still, come on. Now, what do you think? Do you think that we see Carmelo Anthony in a Laker uniform?

I don't know. I do. I do. I mean, when I report at the time, I said Lakers, Blazers, and then Mark Spears also reported, Heat and Sixers could be options for him. I don't know. I'm really interested to see what happens Carmelo here, because I think he should be in a league. If you're 30 rosters of 15 players or 17 if you want to include two-way guys, that's 510 players.

He's, Carmelo-Anthony is one of the 510 best basketball players in the world, right? He should be on a team. It's just a matter of, is a team willing to take that risk? Knowing the fact that he says he wants to contribute, can he contribute at this point? He doesn't defend well. His scoring, he still takes a lot of mid-range jumpers. I'm not sure where the fit is. Like, is there a team that stands out to you?

Chris, that it's like it's worth the risk? Like the Blazers maybe? I don't know. You know, I was insanely against him signing with the Houston Rockets because I thought they've got something great that can be screwed up. And of course, he did. For the brief amount of time that he was there, he was one of the worst net rating players in the entire NBA for a franchise that won, you know, over 60 games. Houston was also underachieving overall, though. Like, the whole team was to start the year.

I get that. don't think that it was a good fit anyway. That being said, they had something great that I thought could be screwed up. If you are a team that doesn't have anything great going on anyway, it's a risk reward thing. What's your risk if you're messing up a team that's not right now, either not going to make the playoffs or struggling to make the playoffs or does not have a high ceiling once they get to the playoffs anyway? Then at that point, I could say, hey, it's worth trying. but I just don't think it's worth trying if you've got a really good team

that you could screw up. But what if you can make a really good team better? I think that's possible. I still... I think that's hard to believe it's hard for me to believe that a really good team is going to get better by adding him.

I know, but like with Houston, with their setup, with their type of system, my argument for why it made sense to try and experiment with Carmelo Anthony before the season was, well, first of all,

A, because there's no risk because you can get rid of them easily and that's exactly what happened if it doesn't work out. But the upside was that with Carmelo Anthony, he's a 6'8, 6'9 power forward who can space the floor for you, but he also offers a different wrinkle

in the sense that he can be used as a screener in pick and roll or he can run pick and roll. So instead of always using a smaller guy, a guard, he presented a diversity of options for the team. I know this is your theoretical. I just didn't work.

That's your theoretical, Carmelo. It's not good anymore, dude. That's why. Kevin, it's because he hasn't set Five screens in his career. Yeah, but he actually did screen for Houston. It's just he doesn't want to do it. But the point was, the experiment was, if this guy who's been had a great career, right?

Like, that's not under eight Carmelo Anthony here. I think I've always had issues with this game, but he's had a great career. If this great player finally is like, I'm willing to sacrifice, finally I'm willing to sacrifice and do things outside of my comfort zone, I think it could have worked and didn't. So they got rid of him. No risk. Before we get to stuff that's coming up towards the trade deadline, I do want to ask you about a couple other moves that have been made, or at least one other that has been made, and that is the acquisition of Kenneth Farid. Do you think we see a revival of Kenneth Farid and a guy that can contribute, or is he just done?

Because obviously, he has not been a big contributor in quite a long time. No, yeah, has not at all. It was interesting towards the end of his tenure with the Nets. They started having him shoot corner threes, which was quite interesting. Brooklyn is the factory for turning Biggs into three-point shooters. He was one of five. I believe two of those misses were airballs.

But I think with Houston, to relate this to what we were just talking about with Carmelo, like with their wings, a lot of it is, you know, you need to defend spotting up, spacing the floor for James Hardin and Chris Paul. With their Biggs, it's screening. and rim running, and you need to be

on defense, you obviously need to be able to protect the rim, rebound, and switch. That's right. So can he do that? Well, you know, he's... I guess we're going to find out. I mean, listen, they're playing the artist formerly known as Neney. So... Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. Well as him? Exactly. And I think he

can. I think Feread can be better than Neney. And also, you know, last night, he looks pretty good already. Cutting, diving in the pick and roll for Houston. For him, it's going to be a matter of the defensive end of the floor. We'll see. I think he's at least an upgrade for short-term until Clint Capella gets back. And that's ultimately all that matters is that they get Capella back and that he stays healthy for their playoff, Ron.

All right, Kevin, we'll get right back to it. First, we need to tell everybody about our NBA Watch of the Night, which is going to be the Blazers versus the Oklahoma City Thunder. It's on NBA TV tonight. These are two teams that have played extremely well this season. They appear to be, I mean, of all the teams that have been fighting, and jockeying for position in the Western Conference, we are now past the midway point, and it feels like I would be surprised if either of those teams weren't playoff teams. You have Portland who is, I mean, they're actually, I guess they're tied in terms of games back right now.

Both won their last two games, and currently they would both be home court advantage teams. Right now, Oklahoma City's third, Portland is fourth. saw Oklahoma City play yesterday at lunchtime against the New York Knicks. And Portland played yesterday also, didn't they? Yes, I did. Two back-to-backs. Who'd they play? It was jazz.

They played yesterday. Yeah, yeah. And got to win 109 to 104. And so now they both turn around back-to-back for both of these teams at Oklahoma City, Portland versus the Thunder. This is going to be a very good game. It is. For sure.

Their last matchup together, Paul George dropped 37 points. the outstanding MVP caliber season that he's had for them on both ends of the floor. Portland's going to have to do a much better job of containing Paul George. Nobody has done a great job of containing him for the most part this year. He has had just out of his mind season so far. Remember, if you want to watch every NBA game, subscribe to NBA League Pass on NBA.com, Amazon, or your local cable or satellite provider.

A couple of notes about teams that are headed towards the trade deadline, one of which, well, you've got these teams that have no particular interest in winning or certainly winning a lot of games this season. And so with that being the goal in mind and you have some big contracts on your books, that people expect those teams, you know, you will go and you will try to find the veterans and the guys with bigger contracts on those teams that might be able to help other teams. And so I'll just go through these one by one. And most importantly, the names that have kind of been reported out there over the course

of the last week or so include the Knicks, Atlanta, Cleveland, teams like this, right? The Knicks, you have the whole Frankie, Nilakina, and Enos Cantor things going on. So it feels like the quotes lately are trying to build up Frankie as a guy that teams would want. And then Canther, you've got this whole, if they can't find a trade partner, a possibility of him being a buyout candidate. And then clearly he could sign with another team. Where are you at on possible return for either of the, would you give up anything of real value for either of those two players? And what do you think about the future of most importantly, Nilakina, do you think that the Knicks should be moving on from? Obviously, he was the last of the Phil Jackson draft pick,

so I can imagine that David Fisdale, Scott Perry, and the like, they don't have the same amount of stock in him as the previous regime would have had. I don't know. What do you make of it? Well, I think with Frank Nillikina, one of the things that keep in mind is, A, like, he could end up never being a good offensive player.

Like, right now he's not. He can't create off the dribble. He can't score. He can't do the things that you need from your point guard. However, when he was drafted in 2017, the expectation with Frank Nilakina was that he's going to suck on the offensive of the floor early in his career. The expectation was that he's going to need to defend. And that's exactly what he's done early in his career.

He's already a very good defender at only 20 years old. And that's the thing. He's still so young that I'm not, if I'm another team, I would be happy to bring in Nilakina knowing that he can defend from my franchise. And you know what? Maybe over the course of the time he develops his ball handling skills that really activates his passing because I think Nila Kina, both overseas and now with the Knicks, he has shown that he can at least pass the ball. He has good vision. But the problem is that he doesn't have the shot creation ability.

And I think if I'm another team that is willing to invest the resources into that development, I'd be very happy to have him on my team. Now, for the Knicks, obviously, they have bigger plans this summer. They want to chase Kevin Durant. They want to try to add an second star with him as well. and they also have other young point cards that they might prefer. Manuel Moudier is having somewhat of a resurgence with the Knicks. Maybe you'd rather invest in him moving forward. Even Trey Berg has turned into a six-man for them as well. I think maybe for the Nix's just about the wrong situation for Nillikina.

Maybe getting an asset for him, like Dallas tried to do with Dennis Smith, getting an asset that fits what you're trying to build better moving forward makes sense. But with that said, I would be happy to add Nillikina if I'm a different. team willing to invest in him. Do you think he is ever a starting point guard on a good team? Look, man, I know this is like kind of a cop-out answer, but so much of his situation. He's never going to be a primary ball handler, but can he be like a weird, funky two or three on a team with multiple ball handlers because he's such a defensive ace?

Yeah, of course he can. But he's never going to be a primary guy, if that makes sense. What about Canter? Obviously the last time he was on a very good team, there's that famous clip of Billy Donovan on the bench and the camera caught him saying, we can't play him. And so there is a limit to cancer. He obviously puts up big,

big numbers on a regular night in the regular season, but we have seen him be in the playoffs at the highest level and be rendered unplayable. Do you think that limits what teams would give up for what would be a normally, in this situation? He was a very productive player, certainly offensively, productive and a guy that can get buckets and a guy that can rebound and yet defensively becomes such a liability and is so able to be thrown into pick and rolls, do you think the

market for him is going to be so dried up that he does in fact become a buyout guy? With Cantor, it's tough to construct a deal because he's making $18.6 million this year. So it's hard to find a team that either has cap space or matching salaries that they'd be willing to give up for Canter. So that eliminates a lot of teams already. There was their report that the Kings could have interest in him. Maybe they could swap one of their other expiring guys, somebody like Zach Randolph. They have cap space to absorb it.

So Randolph for Cantor would work. Is that something if you're Sacramento, Chris, if suddenly your hider's DM there? Are you making that move to help make a little bit of a playoff push? Or are you like, you know what? Why bring in Cantor? Because that's just taking away developmental time from Bagley and Giles and even Collie sign for that matter. I would not, simply because I've had 600,000 centers in Sacramento.

The other thing is that would be very strange because it was, in fact, David Fisdale, who relegated Zach Randolph to the bench once upon a time, a very proud individual. He played it as a professional the entire year, but was not super thrilled about that. And I can't imagine the Knicks having him to play him. Maybe they just wave. Maybe you make the trailer and wave right off. I'm hopeful for Zbo's. You know, I love him.

He can still play. And he could certainly come off somebody's bench and get your rebounds and buckets. And even in the playoffs, when the games get tough, you need hard-nosed guys like that. And so I'm hoping that he ends up on a team. I do think he could help a team win. I do. And obviously he has his own defensive issues. but he is just such a ferocious competitor.

And I actually saw him recently. I mean, hell, he's in Memphis all the time. And he is in great shape. So I'm hoping he ends up on a team where he could help somebody. But that just doesn't make all that much sense for those two teams to me, for Sacramento and for the Knicks. I don't know why you do that. Do you want Zach Randolph back in Memphis?

Oh, I don't think that that's happening. Do you want him back in Memphis? Well, he is. Fine. Let me rephrase my question. Do you want him to drive down to his house tomorrow? Do you want him back playing for the Grizzlies? Oh, I mean, at this point, it doesn't, you know. Would I like to see him end his career?

Sure. In a uniform? Yes. I mean, why not. That's why it would be great if the trade happens. At least it be something to cheer about. If the Knicks were to wave Randolph, then he could, you know, sign with the Grizzlies or something like that. And, you know, just retire with the team.

It'd be pretty cool. Yeah, get the band back together. Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you about a couple of these other teams. If you are another GM, Dwayne Deadman, Kent Bazmore, the ringer's own, Kent Bassmore, are names that have frequently come up as, you know, guys. Listen, Atlanta is winning games. They've got like, you know, they're like 11 and 17 or something in their last.

Three of their last 10. That's too much. That's too much. Collins has been out of his mind. You're not losing as well as you can. Atlanta. Come on. get on it.

It might help the cause if they get rid of some of these veteran guys. Deadman Bazemore, if you are a good team out there, which of those has particular interest to you? It's Dedman. And one of the main reasons why is similar to the conversation with Cantor, it's the money. Kent Bazmore is making $18 million this year with an option, a player option, by the way. He's definitely picking this up for $19.3 million next season. So you're taking on two years for a guy that is a solid role player, but he's not quite worth that. Or is Dedman making $7.2 million is a free agent this summer, short-term addition, and that's about all you would want on him.

I think Dedman, he's another one of those bigs. There's an endless list of Bigman that have added three-pointers, and Dedman has turned himself into a 36, 37 percent three-point shooter in his two years with the Atlanta Hawks. And he's a solid defensive player who rebounds and generally plays hard. why wouldn't you want somebody like Dwayne Deadman? I'd be chasing after him more so than Kent Baysmore. Not only that, Chris. Not only that. Got to keep the winging it podcast together.

Yeah. Can't break that up. Let me move to Cleveland, another team that's going to lose a boatloaded games that has some veterans on their team. We already saw Corver move on earlier this year. A guy that was actually acquired in that trade is another guy that could be moving on. Alec Berks, and then you have Tristan Thompson, but unfortunately for Tristan.

and he's got 18 million on the books next year. Do you have any interest in either of those two players if you are a good team looking to get better? Sure. Berks is a solid player. I think he would be a solid addition. Like, here's the thing, man. Like, all these names we're listing.

I've been talking to a handful of executives past couple weeks and everybody, everybody tends to think, and maybe this changes, but everybody tends to think this trade deadline is just going to be a bunch of Alec-Berkes-esque players getting swapped. Just a bunch of moves

that don't really move the needle for either team. It's just a swap of assets. Alec Berks is a solid player. He's not changing the championship formula for anybody. No, I get you. If we want to have a good trade deadline, what we need to have to take place

is like a week before it, a big movement by like a contender happened. Because then it all of a sudden puts the pressure on a lot of the peers to say, well, wow, they just really improved them. and so now maybe we need to start looking at what we can do here. That's what we need to have happened if there's any chance of having a trade deadline

where, you know, I mean, a couple of years ago, we're talking about like a third of the league, you know, changing teams. I mean, it has happened before and especially now with the cap going up, a lot of these big, big contracts that were signed when the cap went up exorbitantly the first time. Those things are, there's a year left on those. the Bays Moors, the Harrison Barnes, the Chandler Parsons, like all those contracts that were signed that offseason, those become expirings next year. So maybe it, I don't know, maybe it becomes a little more active than we think, but what we need is somebody to make a big move prior to the

deadline. That could trigger some things, but I also think even if a big surprise deal were to happen, like the Blake Griffin deal that happened between the clippers and pistons, I don't think that would necessarily trigger other big moves. It could just, you know, trigger conversations that carry into the summer. I just don't think there's not a lot of great players that would even be conceivably available right now. How about the Dennis Smith Jr. situation and this weirdness that has gone on away with the team. Now Rick Carlisle gives out this statement. He's back with the team.

It feels a little bit to me because of the messages that were put out over the course of the last week that everybody in the free world knew that it wasn't. working with Dennis Smith, here's the numbers when he's on the court with Luca, it's not working out with him and Rick Carlisle in the relationship, even though Carlisle, you know, says he called and apologized to Dennis Smith and whatever else. It feels like that story got out there everywhere. And then they had to like fix it a little bit in the sense of first plant the stories out there that no, no, no, unless they can get a good trade, they still believe in it and he can be part of the future. They're going to work it out. And then you have the whole Carlisle good PR yesterday with

the Kumbaya with Dennis Smith. It just feels like Carlisle apologizing. It just feels like this is a reaction to like that what they realized is people ain't given up crap for Dennis Smith. And it did not work in their favor for the story to be out there that they might have a level of discontent with him and he might be available. And so now you have to make it look like, no, no, no, we're fine with keeping him. if you don't want to give us anything that we really want. And so what you do now is try to do all that repairing in hopes that deals could become a little bit better because it feel like you have some leverage. And the leverage would be fine. We'll just keep him when everybody knows you probably don't want to.

Well, you got to bring him back for multiple reasons. They haven't won a game since J.J. Brayor got hurt. So they need another point guard to back up Luca Dantridge along with Jalen Brunson. so they need Dennis Smith back. And you're right, Chris. It also has to do with your leverage and negotiations. Right now, Dennis Smith's value has plummeted. So it's in his best interest to return and restore his value as a player who's only 21 years old,

was just drafted 9th. A lot of executives I've talked to had him higher than 9th. So that people like Dennis Smith around the league, but he needs to restore his value. And for Dallas, they need to, you know, gain some leverage to actually get something of worth for a guy who's young and talented. because some people are like, oh, Dallas is giving up on Dennis Smith. It doesn't work there. They're not giving up on a 21-year-old guy who just invested in ninth pick-in

and who has made some strides this season, too. Look, I mean, he was extremely inefficient scoring last year. So far this year, he's been better. He's been better shooting the ball, and maybe that's just a small sample, but he's been better. He's tried harder on the defensive end of the floor as well, which was a big problem for him in college and last season as a small point guard. I think with Dennis Smith, you have to try to make it work,

even if the intention is to eventually trade him for something that fits better. Because with Luca, you ideally would have a secondary ball handler who is bigger, who can also defend at a higher level than a Smith. I hope for them they're able to find something. But I think right now it's going to be about maximizing Dennis Smith. And I'm curious what you think about this, Chris. I threw this out on Friday's or NBA show. I would love to see them run some high pick and roll with Luca screening for Dennis Smith.

I think that could present some issues for defenses. If you're going to switch that, Luca's going to have a smaller guy on him, or Dennis Smith is going to have a slower-footed player, possibly that he might be able to drive against. And then if you don't switch that, well, Dennis Smith going full steam down the lane or Luca Donter to popping or short rolling.

I think that could be a really interesting way for Dallas to spark their offense. And with that, you could also help restore Dennis Smith's value or figure out maybe, you know what, we're going to keep this guy for now. Yeah, what are the reasons that those other two guys, Brunson and Berea, have had so much success being alongside Donchich on the court, and yet Dennis Smith has not? And are there things that you could pull away that those other two guys do that could help the cause? Because right now, for whatever reason, that pairing has been much less effective than the other two.

So, I mean, I guess the first thing I would do is take a deep dive into, okay, what happens when Berea is with Donchich, what happens with Brunson is at Donchich? And you can just say, well, those are headier players that make the right decisions more often than not, and don't break off from the play that Carlisle calls. That's pretty much it, I think. I know, I know, I know. But do you just put your hands up in the air and say, this ain't going to work, or do you try to? And at this point, they are at the position where they have to try to make it work. I mean, that's one of the weird parts in all of this is how Rick Carlisle has somehow just evaded blame through all of it. I mean, with the apology and, you know, according to Sham Shrania, Carlisle, quote, was expressing remorse over situation.

Even post-apology and pre-apology, there's been really no blame directed at Rick Carlisle for failing to install a talent and 21-year-old point guard that showed flashes of being a really good player last year and this year for now. good coaches be at their wits end with, they just can't take it, with the development that it takes with rookie point guards. Oh, for sure. They can't. They can't take it. You know what I mean? Especially when you have Luca Donchich who you want the ball on his hands as much as possible

now. I saw a coach say to hell with it with Kyle Lowry. Kyle Lowry's made eight All-Star teams or whatever he's made. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, I was here. I saw him. I mean, I was with Kyle as a rookie. And there's been all kinds of them in the past.

I'm just saying that's one with personal experience I saw where it was like, this ain't going to work. Obviously it worked. Now, it was many years down the line. I will tell you, anybody could go look up Mike Conley's first four to five years of his career. They're terrible. Four or five years where he wasn't that very good player. And then it caught on.

But development of point guards, especially when you are drafting guys at very young ages, a lot of guys cannot withstand it. because it leads to losing basketball. It just does. It's hard to win with a rookie point guard. There's very few that have ever done it. Kid, in some measure, Rose in Chicago, but generally rookie point guards are not on winning teams.

Yeah, and that's why when Dallas picked him, this whole saga was not predictable, but Carlisle's frustration with him was very predictable. When you're drafting a young point guard who's two of his biggest weaknesses in college and entering the league were his decision-making and his defense effort. That's going to piss off any coach, especially Rick Carlisle.

Yeah, that's why somebody like a Brunson, who is more like a Brogden, these guys that are four-year players, are certainly more advanced basketball-wise and better equipped, and that's why they're able to get on the floor early for teams that even win games. And they become, you know, coaches' pets, because they are, they're just more advanced. And when you're trying to learn how to be a point guard on the fly in the NBA, it is not easy at all. It's just not.

For what it's worth, I know there's probably somebody being like Brunson's not as good as Brogden. And of course he's not right now, but Brogden is also four years older. Brogden's 26. Brunson's 22. Oh, I'm just saying.

Oh, I get it. It's that structure, like a smart, high IQ player who makes right decisions, who, you know, hustles, all that.

That's what you're saying. And I'm totally with you. Yeah. It is hard to get minutes on any team That's not just a rat team A coach needs somebody that he can trust And knows going to make the right play Well, and what they do is they go try to find

Some old guy that can just be the backup point guard Right I'm living through it right now with the kid that was drafted Very highly in the second round A four-year player in Javon Carter Well, you go and get Shelvin Max So he can play ahead of him And it sucks, it sucks

You know, you'd rather start developing what you got for the future and find out what you got there. That being said, I do need to ask you. Try not to talk about them very much outside of stories that I can relate from personal experience. But you said earlier that there probably aren't a lot of good players available for this upcoming trade deadline. I have to bring up that there might be two extremely good ones. Uh-oh. And those might be Mike Conley and Marka Saul.

Because after what took place yesterday, for those of you unaware, the Grizzlies have now lost 17 of their last 20 games. They look like a team that is completely broken and spiritless. Let's go.

Get another pick. Woo! And you have Mike Conley and you have Mark Gassall who appear to be two broken members of this. And so, I mean, listen,

you're not intentionally losing. You cannot help yourself from losing. How are you? That's what has taken place with them now. And so, it stands to reason that when you are in the situation that you are in, that teams will inevitably

call. And who knows? I honestly, I can tell you, I don't know if they would move them. But I'm sure that if it was not being considered a few weeks ago, now it would be heavily considered, or at least talked about. And, you know, Markisaw's got a trade kicker, which now it feels like he might be willing to waive if you could get him to a winning team. because all he wants to do is win and it is not happening for him right now. And so I don't know what they're going to do, but it is a possibility that there are two that are out there that could maybe be gotten if the price was super high. I wonder with Gasol. He has that player option for next season if he would be willing to opt out of that and instead sign a cheaper long-term deal.

Well, that was always the plan in Memphis. That was exactly the profile of the Zach Randolph deal. Zach Randolph did, picked up the option and then signed two extras for whatever it was, like 10 million or 12 million or whatever it was at the time. And so that was kind of like what was going to happen with Mark Gassal. And I don't know what will take place. And I don't know if you could get anything for them anyway. But you've got to start changing your calculus when you lose. It's one thing to lose to the Pelicans without Anthony Davis on the one time that you're on national TV.

It's quite another to lose the game by 20 points. That is a team that is just broken completely right now. And so do they just have a sell-off, which is obviously sucks? It's like we bickered at each other about on Twitter the other day, though. It's too late. I mean, what are you really going to get from Arkansas right now? Right. Conley can still get something good.

He's had another good season individually. Yeah, right. Conley's a really good player still. It's just a matter of also which team needs a point guard that's going to make $32 million next year, $35 million a year after, which team is going to be willing to pay for that guy that even needs a point guard? There's not many out there. So I think for Memphis, it's tough to find deals that make sense to do at this point. The window to trade those guys was a couple years ago. Yeah, and I'll just say this real quickly, regarding the, because I know we joke about it a lot,

the whole blowing it up and losing on purpose in order to get high draft picks. Great. One of the reason it bothers me to know when, obviously, listen, I am against losing on purpose, no matter. I just think that that is ridiculous. And it's something where people spend money to go watch it. I understand the benefits it can have for the future, even though those are not as good as they once were, given the new structure. But just for me to explain, like, obviously I know people intimately that are involved in this, and it affects so many other things. Like, I guess in big markets, it doesn't particularly matter. But in small markets where you're the only team, you have no

idea the profound, listen, it has a profound effect on the actual basketball players and the coaches and whatever else, but you have a ton of people that depend on it. You know, you have a ton of people that, or whether it is vendors that have spent a fortune to have their small business inside an arena or ushers or sponsors, or you have all kinds of people that work for an organization. I mean, I saw a team tank last year. I also saw bloodletting in great people that go and get other jobs somewhere else and maybe they're salespeople or maybe they work for the team or maybe their ushers or maybe their attendance for the parking lot or in a town like this where downtown it survives all these businesses around survive by having a hopping arena and fun things going on

and so when a team becomes irrelevant or apathy sets in it has a profound effect on a lot of people outside of just a video game we are going to lose so we can hope to get a high draft pick going forward. And that bothers me to no end. And I do think it is a lot harder to pull off than if you are in a big market. People are going to go to Madison Square Garden just because it's an event no matter what. And they've put out a pathetic product for years. That's not true in other cities, you know? And so that's why it's daunting to think about how do you get next? And the truth is when the answer is always just suck again, I think you need to figure out why do you suck now? And you've got to hold those people accountable.

And over and over they have fired coaches. Do you switch players? You've got three things you can do. Your front office, your coach, and your players. So who becomes accountable? And until you get to figure that out, it does you no good to just be terrible. And that's why teams stay terrible is because they lose. on purpose, they get the high traffic, but a high draft pick can't cover up bad management or

bad coaching or bad roster design or whatever it may be. And so when the easy answer is always, just suck and maybe you'll get a great player, it doesn't fix anything because they did for one year. They sucked. And they've got hopefully a future star in Jaron Jackson Jr. But that hasn't helped anything for this year. And they have absolutely blown a healthy C.S. and from Mike Conley and Marcusal, and those guys, who knows? Maybe you just look now and say, the future is Jaron Jackson, and we've got to figure out how to build around him and get as many future assets as we can towards that cause.

I don't know. I agree with every single thing you said in terms of it affecting more than just the team. It affects a lot within each city. I just think when we were talking about this two years ago, our first year during the podcast, the 2016-17 season, to me at the time, it was about the timing of preventing that, that suffering from being longer, that those were better draft classes

to get better players. And they got one of them in Jaron Jackson. You know, fortunately, fortunately, last year they had injuries that led to them getting a player who can change their future. And you mentioned it's, you know, for one year they stunk and got a really,

really promising player. Well, it's not the only time. In 2006-07 season, they stunk that year and then they got Mike Conley, a guy who was set up this long, sustained run. Granted it took a while for him to get going.

We've went back and forth. There's no argument. Higher draft picks tends to lead to better players. It's just a fact. And that's why for Memphis, with this year's draft, I hope for them that they end up,

you know, if they were to win the lottery, they'd nail their pick. But the higher the pick, the higher the odds. That's it. I am aware that that is true. And I am aware that Dragon Bender comes in at the very end of games.

Oh, goodness. He's the ultimate white flag in the NBA. You loved him too. Yeah, I still... You can get a bunch of high draft picks and still suck until you fix why you suck. No kidding. No kidding. Of course. But you also maximize your chances of landing something really, really, really, really good.

Good teams don't lose on purpose. Good franchises, I mean. Tell that to the Sixers who have Joel Embed and Ben Simmons. And they're already trying to break that up. Oh, please. No, they're not. You tried to trade Ben Simmons on Bill Simmons podcast two weeks ago. Shut the hell up.

No, I did. Yes, you did. No, that's not true. You were trading for Anthony Davis two weeks ago because it won't work. I got to trade him for Anthony Davis. So sign me up. Of course, training for Anthony Davis.

I was making a argument. You already saying he's always with clutch, so he's going to go to the Lakers in a couple of years anyway. And you can't win at the end of games because he can't shoot. Don't take that out of context. The context of that was for the Pelicans' perspective. If you're looking for a trade, you might want a guy who you feel confident will stay long term with your team.

Oh, when they get back, Hey, listen, when they get batted out of the playoffs, then we'll say, oh, it was worth losing 650 games for six years. Then you're going to be... You'll be trading Ben Simmons by next season. Please, no. And by the way, they're the only two people,

literally in the whole organization, that are around from all the losing. Two. Two. The only two. I guess the coach. Yeah, Brett Brown's been around. It's not about the actual person in place. the players that they had from that, Eric Covington and Sarge led to

Jimmy Butler. It's the decisions that were made then that led to having cows in size JJ Reddick. That's what it's about. The karate kid Jimmy Butler. You've seen these new headbands? He had one. Drew Holiday had one yesterday. These Nike headbands that are karate kids. I remember preseason

Kyrie and LeBron where I remember the first two that at training camp, I think that wore those. It's so cool that players are wearing that everywhere across the league. It's dope. I love to look. I need one of those karate kid headbands. Maybe we can wear them while we podcast. We can.

People out there that worry about me and Kevin, this is what friends do. They yell at each other and make fun of each other. Just like everybody else yells at each other too. That's what friends do. They argue. Hopefully people understand. For everybody out there listening,

thank you so much for listening again. Head over to iTunes. Give us a rating and review there. Five stars. Five stars. It really helps. And we will talk to you next week.