The Ringer NBA Show - Unpacking the Bogdanovic Debacle and First Day of Free Agency Recap | The Mismatch

Episode Date: November 21, 2020

Verno and KOC discuss the Bogdan Bogdanovic debacle and its affect on the first few hours of free agency (0:00), the situation in Philly, what the Hawks could look like next season, and Detroit’s free agency moves (1:00). Then, they go through all of the deals made in the first few hours of free agency (30:00). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Kevin O'Connor on today's episode of the mismatch. Chris Vernon and I talked about all the free agent news through 930 Eastern Time, 630 Pacific. So we did get into some of the guys who signed like Dwight Howard, going to the Sixers. And we also talked about the Bogdan Bogdanovich mess now that he won't be going to the Milwaukee Bucks. All that next. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show, a special Friday night free agency edition. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Friday from the Ringer.

dot com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Climber, Kevin O'Clym., Kevin O'Candee, Kevin O'Candle, Kevin O'Contin, Kevin O'Chyndt, Kevin. Chris, it's, uh, 8.20 p.m. Eastern right now, and it appears the NBA has scared off teams and agents after the Bogdan Bogdanovich mess this week. We're not getting a whole wave of signings. Nobody's right yet. Right before we were getting ready for the NBA drive. the other night, we did a podcast and we talked about the Bogdanovich deal. You said Bogdanovich is going to have moments that will live forever in Milwaukee Bucks

here. This is it. This is not what you meant when you said that that Bogdanovich would have moments that would live forever in Bucks history. You did not mean that he would screw up everything with his

potential signing. and a trade with the Milwaukee Bucks. This is such an incredibly fascinating story because it all happened in the midst of the draft. The Sam Amick story comes out that he haven't agreed to anything and he's actually mad about this. And it's like, and then there's people saying,

ah, this is just a cover up so they don't all get in trouble. But this is crazy. Like you have a situation where a guy worked out a deal three days before free agency was going to begin. We always kind of operate in the NBA with a wink-wink. Last year, after everything that went down, the NBA sent memos out to everybody to really scare them and say, hey, this isn't how it's going to be anymore.

We've gotten enough complaints and we're going to change things. And then within, literally by the next time this comes about, we have maybe the most egregious of any of the situations that we've seen, at least everybody else when they're working out their deals and they're recruiting players, they keep it quiet. This was not kept quiet. And in fact, was out there for the world to see a deal that was not allowed to be made,

being made behind closed doors, and then getting reported. And so obviously, that was just not going to happen. They were not going to let that thing go through. And now what ends up as a result is what you said. We get to free agency. Yes, everybody's been working these deals out for a week. And usually it hits free agency and guys like Wojj and guys like Shams and even you unload the clip at 501. you know, it's like, this guy signed here, this guy signed here, this guy signed here.

And so it's very obvious that everybody's deal did not get done in one minute's time that that deal was already agreed to and they just had to wait until it could be official. Now, we're not getting things announced like we usually would because everybody wants to put up the guys that the deal's not worked out because of the Bogdanovich crap, right? Yeah, I mean, it sure does seem like that. I just got off the phone with a team executive right before we started the podcast. And we went back and forth about that. And his impression is exactly that.

As is everybody else have talked about that, like, it's going to be a little bit more slow moving with these deals because teams and agents have to put up this front that, oh, we're having a Zoom meeting after the time of pre-agency opens. It's like, come on. Let's be serious here. And, you know, that's, you know, I talked to somebody earlier today who remarked, it's kind of a shame that an example is being made out of another small market team like the Milwaukee Bucks with this whole situation. And I understand looking at it from that perspective.

This is a team, the Milwaukee Bucks, that all they're trying to do is improve their team when they have this transcend talent once in a generation and Yonisita Cumbo, and they're trying to do everything possible in order to keep that player. and you know we talk all the time about stars going to big markets, stars leaving small markets, and it is kind of a shame that it happened that way. With that said, unless you view it from one of their competitors. Oh, unless you're viewing it from a,

I'm sure their competitors are like, ha ha ha, ha, they're cackling about this. They're laughing, but they're also, they were also by all reports calling the league and saying, teams were pissed. What the hell? Well, let's say you weren't negotiating with the guy. You were waiting until he hit restricted free agency and then you can recruit and extend

your offer sheet and whatever else. Let's just say, let's act like some teams are playing it on the up and up. When before he can even be up for restricted free agency, a report comes out that a deal is done, you better believe if I was one of the buck's competitors, I'd be like, yo, no. No, this is not, like, this is exactly what y'all sent the memo out about. For sure. And we didn't, and I didn't even get a chance to recruit this guy. I didn't even get a chance.

These guys are getting deals done three days before free agency even starts. Like, no, screw that. And so the league, I didn't inevitably has to come down on them. I mean, and ultimately, it's also probably the most egregious example, considering it involves an extension, you know, a, one on an extension, a new contract, because he's a restricted free agent, a sign and trade. And it also involves a player, you know, having to have his deal guaranteed or son a little bit sova.

So there's all these factors into it that, you know, and just the fact that it, it spreads so quickly that night. When I first reported that the bugs will pursue a sign and trade with Bogdan, Bogdanovich, the Hawks are also expected to pursue a sign on trade for Bogdan, or rather send an offer sheet to Bogdan Bogdanovich. You know, everybody was talking about it in the league. It spread fast, fast. Fast.

Fast. And it's still unclear what exactly happened. There's a lot of finger pointing from every single direction with what happened, who leaked it, you know, who confirmed it and all this stuff. Regardless, something was lost in translation that night. You know, it was like 10 to midnight, East Coast time, when all that stuff. really started trickling out fast and they had a framework that was agreed to but no final agreement necessarily and so somewhere along the lines some party jumped the gun or it was portrayed as being jumped the gun but um it's it's just the NBA the NBA had to set that example I think

I mean I feel for the I feel for the bugs and I feel for small smaller teams but it is it can be a problem. And ultimately, I think that's probably where the league is drawing the line with what's happening there. It's just like you see those signings at 601, right? Right after free agency opens, five-year deal, you know, with a brand new team, it's like, really? They just negotiated this in a minute. I mean, I'm not sure where the line should be. And I'm not sure, I don't think it's enforceable. I don't think it's enforceable. And so this really is just them making an example of the bucks and everybody else involved in this situation. And now he's probably going to head somewhere else. Vince Carda said earlier today on ESPN, maybe Atlanta.

I would bet on Atlanta too. Let's be fair. It's not enforceable unless you're that damn stupid. Seriously. I mean, that's insane. It's insane. One person to yap a little bit too much. That's it.

And this all happens. One person. That's right. One person yaps a little bit too much. This ends up happening. And I do wonder is, on the NBA side, is the penalty going to be that you don't get Bogdanovich? Like, he isn't.

ain't playing there. They're not, they're not getting Bogdanovich. He's not, no, no, no. I know he's not. But is that the penalty or is there more? Do they make an example out of them? Like a financial penalty in addition to. Once upon a time, they, they trashed Minnesota for doing an under the table deal with Joe Smith. Years and years and years and years ago. It was like 2019, 2000, something like that. Penalized picks that time. Yes. And that's when and the other thing is it is a different type of thing. I mean. Yeah. But there was that report that came out that Janus was part of recruiting him. And obviously, come on. Like, that's not like speaking out of school. Both brothers, sports are Thanasis and Janus. Okay. I mean, if you're Janus, do you sit there and go, these guys, is this what I want to commit to? Is this what, really?

Is this what I want to commit to? You know what I mean? You botched this. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. This is botched, bad. You know what I mean? And I would worry about that. I mean, again, I've said from the very beginning,

and I thought that part of that deal was he will resign there. I still think he'll resign there. In the end, it's $70 million. These guys almost always take the huge contract. And then if they want out, they force their way out eventually. And also, like, they still got Drew Holiday. And they still have a really, really strong team. They still have Dante DiVincenzo, a nice young player who can get better.

and Bogdan Bogdanovich like I said when I said that night he was the type of player who was going to have moments that Bucks fans remember forever and obviously it's not going to happen it's just not and that's disappointing but the Bucks still are at this moment at the moment the favorites in the East

not to the extremes that I think they would be with a guy like Bogdanovich but they are still the favorites in the East right now would you agree with that Chris? Who's above him? I mean I think maybe I think maybe by the time it's said and done, you're going to laugh at me.

I think Philly's, I think they're going to be right there. I think Philly will be right there. Is that because they trade for James Hardin or is it because Daryl More and more and more to the Ben Simmons, Joel and Bede Corps? I'm curious about your take there.

I think because they add more and more that by the time this, because I see the way this is shaping up. And you and I talked about this a hundred times. Yes, which is he can, he can revamp a roster rather quickly.

And, you know, if you heard him talk the other day, this isn't that, the, the numbers with the M. Bid Simmons group are, when those two are on the court, you're a dynamite team. You've just got to flank them. With a shooter, and they have a lot of shooters now. And now they're just getting a bunch of them. You know what I mean?

Just get a bunch of guys that can shoot the basketball. And so I think we saw what that can look like. And the other thing is this, I think Doc will be very good for them. I think Doc will be very good for Embed because it will be the first time. And I don't want to, look, I don't want to crab bumper brown here. But I do think that Doc, it's okay. Sixers fans all mind. Yeah, but I think, but I think he did better than what he's gotten credit for.

And I think he, you know, he piled up an awful lot of losses on that record and still coached that team every night and saw him through the process. I think he deserves respect. I think he's, I do not think he's a. crappy basketball coach. And I thought his roster was ridiculous last year in terms of the way it was put together. So I don't know what was necessarily expected of that. That being said, Doc with Stars is the kind of guy that has the gravitas to be able to walk into a locker room and dress them down in front of everybody else and do hold them accountable and say, you are killing us. You can't play this way.

We have to have you tonight. And I do think it will bring the absolute best. playoffs this year. But I think that will bring the best out of. Three one lead, Chris. I'm aware. I'm aware. Third time in his coaching career, they blew a three one lead.

No, no, no. They also blew a three two lead three other times, his teams. I am well aware of that, Kevin. I am also saying that when we're talking about those particular guys and what I think gets the best out of Joel Embed, I don't know if Doc Rivers dressing down. I think that Clippers team has. had a lot of chemistry issues. Okay?

Then you could put those on him or not. But I don't know how much you can dress down Paul George. I really don't. With Joe L. Embed, I feel like he's the kind of guy that if you nudged him, if he had the right coach, you would get the best out of him more often, which then is a devastating proposition for a lot of people in the league. So anyway, if we put Philly aside, I think Milwaukee obviously has to be considered. And by the way, I mean, it's funny.

Last year ahead of the season, I picked the sections to make the finals, and I was dead wrong about that. I underestimated their fit issues, and I mean, I just missed the mark on them. This year, I do have them like just right behind the bucks. I think there's a chance that by the time the season starts, maybe we see a preseason game, how things look, what system dock installs, how the players interact with each other on the court, you know, how the chemistry looks, how the flow looks on offense, what they look like on defense. That could nudge me over the edge. As of the moment, you know, still free agency to go.

There's more moves for more to make. We'll still find out about James Hardin. And that's the big variable here. Philly, in all likelihood, is not going to stop their pursuit of James Harden. If they were to trade for James Hardin, Chris, would you rather trade and Bede or Simmons in that deal, or would you not trade for him at all? Considering your feelings that anybody listening to the show last four seasons knows what are your feelings on what the sixers should do in that situation i would hold on to simmons and embit that's what i would do i mean bet simmons is we've made an all nba team already significantly younger and i am probably higher on simmons than other people are um so yeah i would i would hold i would hold on to i would hold on to ben simmons we have some breaking news here

according to shams sharoni a free agent dwight howard has agreed to a one-year deal with the Philadelphia 76ers. Whoa. 8.32 p.m. This is like 25, 30 minutes after he himself tweeted he was going to go back to the Lakers and then deleted it less than a minute later. What was that? Yeah, that was weird.

Dwight tweeted that himself unless it was like some hacker or whatever, but I don't think so. That was Dwight who tweeted that. And now he's going to the Sixers. It's almost like he tweeted it. And then his agent called him and said, like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah.

Hold on. because what's a deal is it reported what kind of deal he's getting? It's a one year deal. We don't know the money yet. Not sure on the specifics. Well, you got to imagine they're giving him a bigger one year deal. I'm sure what I mean.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I had heard about a week ago that in all likelihood, Javille McGee will be leaving the Lakers in some form. And then with Dwight and then with Dwight Howard, it was about the money. Like if he didn't get the money from the Lakers,

which they didn't want to give him, then he would get it somewhere else because there were all their suiters. for him and now we find out it is the Sixers indeed. This ties imperfect to what you had just asked me. You can go ahead and punt that hardin idea. You think they're reuniting them? I mean, they're grown man. They can

put the pass behind them and focus on winning a championship. Yeah, I would not move off of Simmons. But would you consider Embed? Because sources text to you, Chris. I heard a thing there. Yeah, there was a thing.

I don't know. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I kind of like the Simmons and B pairing flanked by guys. And with their youth and, I mean, you had two in, all NBA caliber players. Chris, Chris, you're nuts if you don't trade for James Hardin. You're nuts if you don't trade for Hardin. Let's, let's, let's be serious. Wait, wait, wait, you just, you just got done talking about, hey, everything you just said about Doc Rivers, apply it. The playoff failures, apply it.

No. What, you can't, I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, saying that all the blame is on dog. You selectively decide who we want to blame for playoff failures. I'm not blame a doc for all that. There's a whole like, do you think it's just Doc the reason why the the

the Clippers just blew a 3-1 lead? Of course not. The whole chemistry problems. All I was saying was in response to like him trying to motivate his guys. I mean, those like there's six teams that didn't respond to that motivation. And with Doc, he himself has said,

he said this this year. He's not much of like a Rura speech guy. He's just not. he doesn't believe in that. He says the last five minutes once you'll walk out of the locker room and then that's it. That's like his perspective as a player's coach. Maybe he's just saying that's the media to feed them. But that's my understanding is that's a style.

I don't think he, I think he's walking in a win-win for the Gipper. But I do think he, I think he holds players accountable. Yes. And that's what I'm saying. I think that's where it helps is like just holding players accountable and, and like just the respect players have for him as a former player.

and like as a guy who has won a lot. Like there's been, you know, tough losses and failures in series, but there's a little, a lot of great wins for him as well, including winning the championship with the Celtics in, in 08. So I think players respect him as a man, you know, as a person too. So, you know, with Doc, I think he's going to help.

But ultimately, um, you get an opportunity to get an MVP with James Harden. If the price is right, you got to take that. I think because he is a big guy, if you're putting my feet to the fire, because I will answer your question, probably MBed. Okay.

If it's one of the two, you, you'd be. Yes, because I would be scared about the injuries. Okay. I just would. I just would. Big guys, it's hard to have really long, productive careers. Like, in five years, I think there is a better chance of Ben Simmons being one of the best players in the NBA than Joe L.MB being one of the best players in the NBA. That's what I'd say.

And I'm banking on five years from now. You know what I'm saying? But again, I like both of them. And I feel that. I play it out flanked with the other guys. Let me ask, what about you? Which one was you? If they said, we won't do blank, but we'll do blank.

Which one would you rather move off of? Simmons. Probably Simmons. Yeah. Probably Simmons. Might also depend on like if you get, what other moves are available. What else you can get back? But I'd lean towards Ben Simmons and

this case. But it's close between those guys. That's fair. While we were talking, we did get a couple free agent signings. It was reported that Danilo Galanari is finalizing a three-year deal worth $62 million with the Hawks. And that's been kind of, you know, something that people looked at for a while. It could be a possibility because Atlanta is trying to push for the postseason and they're under pressure. That front office and

coaching staff is under pressure and they still have money to add another guy, whether that's Bogdan Bogdanovich or whether that's Joe Harris or maybe somebody else out there. But I would expect Bogdanovich or Harris possibly to take on the rest of that cap's race from the Hawks. And for this team, I mean, I'm not sure they're going to make the postseason. I'm not so sure about that. But adding Okongwu in the draft, signing Galanari, who's very, very good still.

If they're able to get Bogdanovich to maybe by the time you hear this podcast. Atlanta has a nice roster around, Tray. I'm not sure how much defense they have. and that's going to hurt them. They can score like hell. They're going to be a fun team to watch. I'm hopeful. I hope they get Bogdanovich because that's a guy who can help Tray work off ball.

Trey needs a guy who can also handle the rock for you to push him off ball more often and get him going. Like, I want to see Trey Young relocating without the ball in his hands. He can't just be handling the ball more often than anybody else in the league like he did last season. Trey needs more variety to his offense in order to maximize who he is and a guy like Bogdanovich could help there whereas a guy like Joe Harris would more just keep the ball

and Trey's hands all the time because Harris is a guy who plays off of others Bogdanovich Bogdanovic can do both Also they got to find some they got to find somebody I mean that's tough man with your back court because the nights that some guy is just cooking Trey to death

it'd be nice to have a big guard or somebody that is a defensive-minded guy or somebody that is at least not, and no offense to Bogdanovich, but he's not exactly, you know, he's not making an all-defense team anytime soon. And so you're defensively a little weak. I mean, you put a lot of pressure on Clint Capella. Or a rookie in Okongru. Well, Galanari is not exactly making all defensive teams either. So, I mean, that that, that may, that team, may play a bunch of 140 to 136 games. What did you think about that Okongwu pick at 6 for Atlanta in the draft? You a fan of that choice? I thought that that was one of now, look, this is beyond the whole pick thing, the player

wise, because I don't know enough about a Kongwu. I kind of lean on guys like you for that. I will root for that kid like hell. That is one of the very, that's one of the few moments because sometimes I I roll my eyes at all of the Good Morning America style draft sometimes it's going to be a little much, but that one was beautiful. Yeah, I mean, with the mom

that stopped me in my tracks. And there's something I will never forget from that moment. He was talking about his brother and his brother who had passed away. And they asked him about how every time he's asked about the NBA, he will never talk about it. He would never talk about it in interviews, like during college and everything,

about his possibility. And he says, because if there's any I'm getting chill saying this. If there's anything that losing my brother taught me, it's that no, tomorrow's not even promised. And he's like, and I live my life like that. And I was like, man, I'm going to root for this kid. I hope this kid turns out to be a 10-time All-Star,

because it's just such an amazing story. The mom from Nigeria, she's bawling her eyes out. He lost his brother, this tragic story. And he seems like just the delight of a kid. You know what I mean? And so I'm not, I say that to tell you, I'm not objective. After I saw that, I'm like, I don't care. I don't care with the analysis on him.

I hope this kid's frigging awesome. Mirren Fader, a great writer and great NBA reporter out there wrote an amazing feature about Okongwu telling some of his life story. And I mean, I love them as a person, you know, Okongwu. And I'm going to be rooting for him. Like, I recommend, I'll send you the link, actually, Chris, after we get out this pod. But anybody who's listening to the show right now, After the pod, I highly recommend reading Mirren Fader on Okongwu. It's a story that she published on Bleacher Report earlier this year.

It's really beautiful, really beautifully written. Okay. So what was the, I don't know if you saw this somewhere about the college basketball plus minus, like the greatest ever or whatever. Did you ever see that? Some of his advanced stats were really good. But it was like all amazing players and Akangwu. He was like on the list. I saw it at some point and I was like, geez, Louise.

I mean, it was not misses. Like the only guy that was on the list that had like this crazy college basketball plus minus that didn't turn out to be really good slash amazing in the NBA was Cody Zeller. That was it. He was the only one. And he still had a career. You know, he's still in a league right now. Yeah, he's still solid player. Yeah.

He'll probably end up being a piston. By the end of the night. By the end of the night. So let's go through. Can we talk about what the pistons are doing? Can we talk about that? What the hell? What's going on there, Chris?

What's going on there? The first thing that is reported tonight, I know, the first thing I saw was facing probably three years, $25 billion. And I really, I thought it was one of those like fake wodge. You know what I mean? Like somebody like cat fishing or something. like that and I clicked on it and then I saw the little verified sign and I was like, come on. Let's get serious. Like no offense to Mason Plumley. Let's back up real quick though. They

drafted Isaiah Stewart, a big man from Washington with the 16th pick. And then they traded for Dwayne Deadman, another big. And then the Plumley signing happened. And then who came next? Who is the next one, Chris? The Plumley signing and then Jililaloka. What's going on? What's going on in Detroit? They had such a great draft. This is what I think happened. I think that they stole

Vladi Divak's team building guide. Oh, goodness. Because for so many years, Vladi Divac would just have like every center on his team. And I think that it feels like that's what like Detroit's. I don't understand. Like, why, what do you do? They had a good overall draft.

They got my number one prospect, Killing Hayes, with the seventh pick. At 16, Isaiah Stewart is a little bit higher than what I was comfortable with, but he's a good caliber prospect, the energy he plays with, he's shown some flashes on the perimeter. I get it. And then at 19, they got Sadiq Bay from Villanova, who I think should have gone lottery, super talented wing, very mature, ready to come in and be a professional like all those Villanova guys are. So I really liked Detroit's draft. And then this free agency, though, the fact that they're taking these guys Plumley and Okifor,

when they have Christian Wood, their own free agent, who will see where he goes. We've yet to receive Word. I know he's generated interest from a number of teams, some teams that are in playoff contention, some teams that are on the younger side. So a guy like Wood who, you know, we talked about him multiple times in the podcast,

I wrote the feature on him as one of my top free agents, I fail to understand not bringing that guy back and making him your priority instead giving $25 million to Plumley and bringing Oak Four. It's just very, very, very, very weird on top of the Deadman trade and the Stewart draft selection.

It's just very weird. It seems like two front offices within one, like a smart draft and then a really bad free agency. Like, are you rebuilding? I don't know. You know what I'm saying? Like, what are we doing here? I'll tell you what, I don't like it for Killian Hayes.

It reminds me of R.J. Barrett last year in New York. Remember with RJ all the conversation was, where's the spacing? Is he going to have spacing to move around the court and, you know, and get attacked the basket with Killian Hayes. I'm looking at it like, where's the spacing for this guy? Where is it? Like, to help him develop and prosper, I'm not sure where it is. It's very weird.

And I wonder, like, is there something more to come that we're missing? It better be. They've got to be. There got to be. There's way too many days. There better be. There's way too many. banks. All right, let's run through as much as we possibly can that we do know has happened so

far. Restricted free agent DeAaron Fox agreed to his five-year $163 million extension with the Sacramento Kings. This was kind of expected. Inevitable. Yeah. Inevitable. And so good for the Kings. At least they've got, I mean, Fox is, I still have any enormous amount of Deeran Fox stock. I think he is, I think he's going to be an all-star in the NBA. And I hope that they, you know, within an amount of time, can build around him properly. Because I do think he is an amazing talent. Let's talk about Fox for a second. Now is go time, right?

He's going from nice young player, really nice young player on his rookie deal to a guy paid to be a star. And Fox has made progress in some ways each season, including his big leap from year one, year two. Now's the time to make another big one after signing this contract or else eventually it's going to the conversation will turn and it'll come to a really nice point card making too much money. So for Fox now now's time for him to make another leap. I want to see another leap like year one to year two, which was massive. And I think he will make it. He's that kind of a kid. And he has this level of athleticism that is just it there's you know what. there's only two guys in the entire MBA

that I saw the entire year absolutely jam up John Morant. There's only two. And it happened multiple times during the season. But it was the same two guys. And it was De Aaron Fox and it was Drew Holiday. So only two. All season.

All season. Like he can stay in front of him. He's fast enough to stay in front of him. And it was almost like looking at a bigger Morant. No lie. And he is, He's an outstanding talent, man. God bless, I love him.

He's about to only turn 23 years old, too. And I think for Sacramento, they had a great draft. I really like what they did. First round, getting Tyrese Halliburton falling to the 12th pick. We talked a bunch about him in recent weeks about him just being a real rock-solid rookie with the potential to be a really good or great player long-term. And then on top of that, like in the second round, you get Robert Woodard, who's ranked 20th on my board. He's going to be able to come in and play defense.

for you. The shot is questionable, but he made great progress throughout college. And so for them, I love what they did. And I think this is a sign that with the Kings, putting the Bogdanovich mess aside which they were involved in, that with McNair and that new regime there, they seem to be off to a good start here. All right. As we bust through some of these others, I was glad that Goran Dragich got his money because you and I talked about this in the NBA finals. I mean, it had the ability to be just awful. He had had such an amazing season. He was such an integral part for the Miami Heat.

And then he got that injury and we're thinking, oh, God, and he's in a contract year. But they really rewarded him in Miami with a two-year deal. And, you know, he helped them. He had that planter fashion tear in the finals. and he there he was trying to get out on the court. He did get out on the court for the last game, and he had absolutely no business trying to be out on the court. But I worried for his sake, right?

At his age, you know, did that just cost him a fortune? And the heat really took care of that, too. It did not. It did not. And so I was happy for Gorin, yeah, I was happy for Gorin Dragich, obviously. Wesley Matthews, one-year deal with the Lakers. I mean, that's a great signing, I think. You replaced Danny Green making $15 million, get Dennis Schrooter,

and then you sign Wesley Matthews, who at worst, at worst will be Danny Green's level on the playoffs last year. He can be better than that. West Matthews is tough as nails. West Matthews is a veteran player who is there. He ain't goofy at all, so he's no, like, he's a great teammate. And he is also a really good three-point shooter, Still, he can, like, in the sense that if you, if you're just whipping the ball around and I get

wide-ass open threes, West Matthews is going to have games where he can hit five and six threes in a game. One quick thought related to West Matthews, since we haven't mentioned it yet. He's a guy who came back from an Achilles injury. That's right. A torn Achilles. And right now he's 34 years old, just signs a contract with the Lakers, has a chance to go make a run at the first championship of his career.

And Clay Thompson with the Achilles tier that he suffered this week, obviously it's depressing news. Like this sucks. I'm sad about it. I think everybody loves clay. I don't know a single person that doesn't like Clay Thompson. If they don't, I probably don't like that person. But with Clay, like if there's anybody that can come back from this, I think it's him. A guy who's wired like a Wesley Matthews, who's just a gamer who loves basketball. And with Clay, with Clay, he at least has the ability to always be a shooter who can always straight line drab to the rim. and make the smart pass. The question with Clay O'B defense, which was also the question for Wesley Matthews, and with Wes, it did take a little bit of time.

He wasn't quite the same guy on defense after he first came back from that. It did take a little bit of time, which is no surprise. And look, and I'm not going to, look, don't get me wrong here. This guy's not a world beater by enemies. He's a 13-year NBA veteran. But if I'm trying to just fill in the spot,

you know, around AD and around LeBron, that's a guy I can, and he's a guy I can trust. He's a guy that can knock down threes. He's a tough kind of player that'll go in there and rough somebody up if he has to. He's not a guy that you're counting on to do stuff every night. He's not a guy that you're going to start. But I'm talking about when I'm filling out a 15-man roster on a team that's trying to win a title, guys like West Matthews have value, right? And they have institutional knowledge from defending the best players in the league for the last, you know, decade plus.

Jordan Clarkson got a pretty good deal I thought from the Utah Jazz. I mean, you know, it stood out because they didn't have nothing else on the bench. Nothing. But so they needed him to be good. But I think four years, 52 million, I think that's a reasonable deal. If that's his destiny, if he's a guy that's going to come out and give me, you know, I mean, he flips games, you know. It's a bit much. I mean, it's not.

bit much. Look, he can score. He can score. Yeah, yeah, he's a spark plug off your bench.

It's a bit much. I mean, it's a little bit more than I'd be comfortable with giving him if I were the GM, but, you know,

I understand the logic. He was good for them last year. Yeah, I mean, look, there's, there's a bunch of guys. I, the terrible contracts,

to me are the ones that are, I don't think that paying him 11 million. Well, I guess it's a little more. Yeah, you're right.

That is. You might be right. That's $13 million a year. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I agree with you now. You've swung me. I was thinking more it was along the lines of around 10.

You know what I mean? 13's getting there a little bit. Because, I mean, he's now starting for me. Oh, exactly. I don't need 13. It's a bit much. Yeah. All right.

I agree with you. No wonder the person spoke under anonymity when they reported that. Oh, not one of the, that's one I would think an agent would announce that one. Like, you know, some reports had the agent's name attached to it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I were the agent, I'd want my name in on that one. Like, look what I did.

Oh, look, trust me. Mark Bartolstein. He wants his name with that. Howard, Mark Ballaston should have a like tattooed. It should be tattooed. Mark Bartlecy and know who else he has? Joe Harris. Joe Harris is going to get paid.

Mark Bartlestein gets his dudes paid big money. Does he ever? You know who else he had? What was the last time that the Pistons signed the white guy that you went? what? He's got John Lure. What? You remember what John Lour signed? John Lour signed for like what he signed for? Like it was like something like crazy.

He got over $10 million a year back in the day. $10 million a year. That's amazing. That's incredible. Shout out to Mark Bartle's theme. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Like truly unbelievable.

I mean like what he's trying to do right now with Gordon Hayward, it's pretty remarkable. Hayward's trying to force his way to the Pacers. They have good players. They have good players already. And my impression is they're using the Knicks as leverage and the Knicks seem to be okay with that. You know, teams and agents do favors for each other. But we'll see what happens there.

All right, Kevin, a few more. Josh Jackson finalizing a deal with the Detroit Pistons. I just had Josh here at Memphis last year. I'm glad that Josh Jackson's getting his career back on track. I will tell you that he had to play. the season for the Memphis Hustle, the G-League team. And he was a bottle citizen there. He was a great teammate for the Grizzlies.

And I do think that sometimes people can grow up, and I'm very hopeful that that is the Josh Jackson story, a guy that once upon a time had a tremendous amount of promise coming out of high school and then out of Kansas, did not live up to that at all and got in trouble off the court. But when I have talked to Josh Jackson, he doesn't run away from all of that stuff. I do feel like he has, I feel like he's, he was a kid who was in a situation that was a bad

situation to get drafted into in the first place. And he doesn't, he doesn't blame anybody else for that. But his irresponsibility was real. And he put himself in a bad position. I do think there's, there's something humbling about playing the, you know, whoever on a, on a Tuesday night. in front of an extremely paltry crowd when once upon a time you were flying on the private planes and staying in five-star hotels. And the next thing you know, right? You're having to prove yourself all over again by playing in the G League and worked this way up. And everybody really

liked him. And every interaction I ever had with Josh Jackson was insanely positive. So that's what I'll say. And so forget about the Pistons signing him as much as me on a personal level, rooting that he's able to keep it together, that it wasn't just, you know, hey, I'm going to do the right thing until I get my next contract, but rather I really am a changed person because he had me convinced, at least for a short amount of time, that he was a changed person. Danilo Gallinari, as we mentioned, three-year deal with the Hawks. I mean, look, that is a, it is a, is a big, big deal. I thought that I thought gallow.

I thought, you know, the thing that was out there, we talked about on Tuesday, I was like, man, somehow the sons could get him because the sons have some money, right? Then especially pairing him up with Chris Paul again, as they just were a big surprise team in Oklahoma City, that that could be really good. But certainly a good player for the Hawks able to attain.

Rodney Hood returning to the Trailblazers, two years 21 million second years non-guaranteed um what just got to see what he looks like we haven't seen him he got hurt so we didn't see him right he's had some he's had some good moments

uh for sure but is he's not a starter there right I mean not with after them bringing in Covington so he's a bench guy I would think was a good he's fine he's fine whatever Um, Malik Beasley.

Is this true? Four years, 60 million? Is that right? If one was tweeted it or Sean was tweeted it. No way. Didn't he just get charged with like felonies? Yeah, which makes us a little bit surprising. No, I'm not, I'm not making a joke.

I know. I know. Well, that's what makes it this surprising is the fact that. And they just drafted Anthony Edwards. I know. Huh? It's a bit surprising. It says according to his agent.

Yeah, he was charged with threatening his family. I believe there's gun charges involved as well. Like, not like there were felony charges. Yeah. It wasn't like, you know, hey, this is, this is, you know, very minor stuff and maybe there's some confusion or something like that. Like, I remember it being, because I was, you know, I'm a big Malik Beasley fan. And I said one day, I said, yo, I really.

covet Malik Beasley and it was the day that he had just they were like I guess you haven't seen the news today and I was like what? Yeah he was the front headline here Wolf's Guard Malik Beasley charged with pointing assault rifle at family on parade of Holmes tour and this happened in October at a parade of Holmes tour

in the in the Minneapolis suburb of Plymouth Beasley and his girlfriend Monica Yao are also facing drug charges after the incident led to a search of their home in the seizure of nearly two pounds of marijuana which the marijuana part that should not be against the law, but that's beside the point.

The first one is definitely not a good thing to do. Definitely not a cool thing. And it's a bit surprising to see a guy go through that and get $60 million over four years shortly after that. It said he tapped on the vehicle's window, pointed a rifle at them, get the blank off my property, continued to train his all-black assault rifle with a forehand grip with a scope at the SUV. as it drove off. What in the hell? Good grief.

They just drafted a shooting guard number one in the draft. And you just spent $15 million on a shooting guard? Yeah. It's the type of thing where you would think that the team would do this knowing that the charges don't have a lot to it. And yet, like, but we do see players time and time again who do bad things, get opportunities. Antonio Brown, of course,

with Tampa Bay. You know, that's NFL, of course. But, yeah, yeah, and that's what will happen. It happens time and time again in sports. Here's hoping it. Here's hoping that it's not. Sure. Of course.

What it was reported. You know what I mean? Because look, just as a player, you know, I'm a huge Malik Beasley fan. It's a really good player. I also am shocked he got $15 million. But forget the felony. No kidding. I'm surprised he got $15 million from a team that just drafted a shooting guard number

one. you know what I mean? I thought that signaled he'll probably get offer sheets from people around the league. You know what I mean? Yep. But my goodness.

So that one is out there too. Who are you most intrigued with? And if you can, let me circle back to that Hayward thing you were talking about. Yeah. I mean, the answer is Hayward. It is Hayward.

What's going on? Like, you got to believe, you said Mark Bartlestein, bro, you do not opt out to know $30 million unless you got something lined up. You know what I mean? Like I said earlier, you're trying to force his way to the Pacers and likely using the Nix's leverage, which is probably coordinated as a favor to each other, which is fine.

Like that happens all the time in negotiations. That's part of business. And it sounds like Boston and Indiana are haggling over what Boston would receive in return for facilitating this because Hayward, you know, maybe making somewhere between $25 million and $30 million annually. The number I heard would be four for 100. The easy one's Miles Turner, isn't it? Well, it's not so easy.

If it's just Miles Turner, they would also have to include Aaron Holiday or Doug McDermott. Boston, to my understanding, does not want Doug McDermott. They would prefer the package with Miles Turner and Aaron Holiday. But ultimately, Boston's probably actually asking for Miles Turner and T.J. Warren, which I'm sure in the end, it wouldn't want to do that. I mean, this might sound stupid. But are we sure Gordon Hayward's better than T.J. Warren? Are we sure?

How much better? Is he Miles Turner better? I think in terms of, you know, I think in terms of winning next year and the next three years. Look, if I'm saying injury is, injury is not, if I'm not taking into consideration, oh my God, this guy might not play. anywhere close to 72 games for me. Obviously, T.J. Warren is the safer bet. But in terms of just all-around basketball player, look, the last three months of last season, Gordon Hayward averaged on a team where he was what, fourth option,

he averaged 19.7 rebounds, four assists, while shooting 49% from the field and 41% from three. I think we've gone a little far on the what Gordon Hayward. is because in the last three months he was those are outstanding numbers and that's playing in a role you know what I mean he wasn't the man on that team so to do that with not 20 shots a night as an ancillary player in the situation he was in because he was probably he was more in line with what jalen was getting clearly behind on a regular basis kemba and tatum for sure i think i think yes that in gordon heyward being my

How about if I frame it like this? I think I've got a better chance of Gordon Hayward's a second best player on my team at making a title run than I do if T.J. Warren's my second best. So yes, I think Hayward's a better player. I feel that. I mean, I wouldn't necessarily disagree just asking the question there. And I think it's more a testament to how good T.J. Warren was in the bubble, but not just the bubble. He was very good during the regular season, too. And with T.J., like they're different styles of players.

Hayward brings more playmaking for you, more defense for. you and T.J. Warren brings more scoring. Different types of players. They're like, it's kind of apples and orange. It's comparing those two guys. And within the end, let's just say they were to get Hayward for Miles Turner and Aaron Holiday. That's a really good starting five that you're looking at with those guys. If you have Subonis at the five with Ola Depot and Hayward with T.J. Warren. And Brogden. If that's your five, that's a really strong. And end game lineup to close out. I'm not sure it's the best in the East,

but that's a competitive team, isn't it? Yes. I really like the Miles Turner fit for Boston. For Boston. Yes, on both sides. Doesn't it make sense? Yeah, it does, a lot. Especially because I think you can play Marcus there.

I think you can play Marcus. They got by with Marcus Smart instead of Gordon Hayward. Obviously, it's nice to have Gordon Hayward, but you can get by. And obviously not have 30 minutes. million dollars that you pay into a guy, right? You know, there's a story, let's hit a couple of others. Trey Burke, three-year deal, $10 million range to the Mavericks.

Trey Burke was great for them last year. Yeah, you know what I mean? And they moved off of Seth Curry, right? He's not there anymore. They draft my guy, Tyrell Terry, 31st pick, steal the drafts. Yeah, I wonder if this means, it may mean that he gets more time to develop, right? if they bring it if they're if they're if they're if they're bringing back trey burke because people that I talk to who really like Terry said that he'll be a different player in two

you know what I'm saying yeah yeah like he's not like the walk onto the court and bust people's asses in the first year kind of player like that's not do you think even you who is as high as possible yeah no I think it's going to benefit him to have a little bit of time to develop I mean, he still needs to get stronger. He was up to 174, 175 at the most during the summer. They eased back his workouts, fell to, you know, 170. And, you know, that was purposeful. They didn't want to put on too much weight too soon.

And so, you know, over the course of the season, you know, gain, you know, a pound here and there, here and there, build slowly like you're supposed to when you're trying to gain weight the right way. And so having Trey Burke gives you a vet in that role. And Taryl and Tari can grow into that. and maybe at some point or in minutes during the season. It wouldn't shock me if we see him playing. He's talented and he's skilled.

Another one. What a reinvention. You know, hearkening back to the Josh Jackson thing. I mean, it's Berks deals a different one than Jackson, but he was, you know, by his own admission, a guy that had his chest pumped out and a little arrogant when he came in. Next thing he knows, you know, he's playing, he's playing basketball games in New York, not in the garden. He's playing in the frigging G league and having to fight and scorn.

scratch his way back to an NBA career, which once started as a top 10 pick. And look at him now. You know what I mean? He had the talent. He ended up having to be totally humbled. But now he's got another good contract. Before we get out of here, we've got to talk about, oh, my goodness, I can't believe I got to talk about this.

There's a report from Mark Stein that Marcus saw. Markisal has emerged as a free agent target for the Lakers after Dwight Howard has gone to Philly. Wow. that's a big time upgrade if they land a soul. I will tell you I would be absolutely stunned. Stund? Stunned.

Stunned. Stun. Why is that? Because Mark is a very, this is the way you're supposed to play basketball kind of guy. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. What way is that? And everything that Toronto did, the popping the ball

around moving the ball to the better shot, you know, all that kind of, you know, European influence. Lake is a better ball movement than you're giving him credit for. No. They had much better movement than you're giving him credit for. He doesn't want to stand around. He, like, like, he doesn't respect defenses that communicate and play amazing defense together. He doesn't respect that. He does.

But I, I would tell you. What's the problem? Offensively, look, Kevin, you will say this. If, if you sat down and talked to Marcus home, he would. tell you that the basketball that he believes is the right way to play is the way the spurs played, you know, back against the heat years ago. That, you know, keep the ball moving, a lot of cutting, a lot of movement, you know, and that's why he, he loved playing on that Raptors team, you know what I mean? That was kind of a, they won as a collective, you know,

and so I think that I, I would be surprised. I would be surprised. I, I think, I think, I think Mark's going to end up playing in Spain, raising his kids over there. And I know he's probably a target there. But I would just tell you, I would be surprised if Mark goes a place for the Lakers. It wouldn't surprise me if it's not Kassol and ends up being DeMarcus cousins, who it was recently reported that boogie's not ready to start the season. But if you're the Lakers, let's just say you're flipping Jemail McGee elsewhere and you replace Howard and McGee with Marcus Sol and DeMarcus cousins. that's a big time upgrade for your team because of the spacing and the playmaking that they can provide for you in addition to I mean boogie's not a great defender but he plays hard at least in that atmosphere and Gasol you know what he brings he brings intelligence he brings smarts and even if he's not the same guy in the defensive end of the floor like you had those grit and grind defenses when he won defensive player of the year he's always impactful he still brings that spirit and intelligence to help them out and man like if the lakers had those guys Oh my.

They're making moves. Maybe it's a different story if he didn't have a ring. But he got that ring. He also does not like the massive spotlight. So him not being able to go out to dinner without TMZ saying, hey, Mark, hey, Mark, what do you think about? I feel that. You know, whatever. Hey, man, he might, he might want to see what it's like to play with LeBron James and try to

win a championship with LeBron. Why wouldn't you want to try to do that? play your last year or two in L.A. and try to win a title. To me, that's like a kind of cool way to go out. Something different. Trying something new that he maybe had as done before after spending so long in Memphis and then going to Toronto and winning there.

But like, to me, if I, I mean, I'm not Mark a Soul, but if I work, Mark a soul, it's like, hey, why not do something different towards the end of my career? Because his kids are little and he doesn't want to just move to L.A. What if the family wants L.A.? It's like the second home, you know, alongside Spain or something like that. Is that possible? Yes. That would be possible.

Maybe they'd like set like like like growing up setting some roots in L.A. as well as Spain, that type of thing. I don't think he wants. I don't think he's going to be away from his family again. Yeah. Because he had to in Toronto. So you think they would go there with him. He's got three little kids, man.

He's not doing that. How old are his kids? I don't mean. They're all they're all they're all under. Because they're probably hate my daughters. This is an older one. So I would say they're probably all seven and under. Okay.

Interesting. They're very, very, very family oriented. I'm just saying I would be surprised. I'm not saying it can't happen. I'll say I love L.A. I love. He would he would be able to get a house there. He might as well. He could go to farmers markets there. I never thought I was a big city guy growing up in Brockton, Massachusetts, which like is one of the most diverse cities in Massachusetts and one of the places that's like different types of areas. Like there's quieter areas. There's like suburban areas. There's like bigger cities. areas. There's, you know, areas like the projects. There's like totally different areas in Brockton and like demographically and everything. And with LA, it was like moving there. It was almost just sort of like Brockton times 5,000, just so much bigger. Like Brockton is very cultured, but like LA times the 5,000. And I just wonder if maybe like just try something new. It's a nice place to live. The weather's amazing. Maybe he wants to try it out. You don't think he knows. how played there i know but that's what i'm saying like maybe he wants to give it a go now too yeah maybe both gauzal brothers end up and end up wearing lakers jerseys that'd be kind of cool right

yeah i mean there would certainly be some synergy there that'd be cool all right let me be honest bro i cannot uh no i can't have marcosol in a laker jersey i mean it's like i can't do it producer Sasha just texted us here. The Hollywood Farmers Market and the Santa Monica Farmers Market are two of the best in California, which means they must be two of the best in the country, which is true, which is true. But he grows his own stuff. He has a huge garden in Spain. Hey, Sasha, do you want Marcus Hold to come to the Lakers?

He's got his own Farmers Market. Come to the Lakers market. And by the way, Mark, I just want you to know that if you want to grow your own food, No. There's literally no better place to do that than one of the most fertile areas in the entire world, California. And specifically, the tropical fruit that you can grow in Los Angeles is fantastic. I've got four Markasol jerseys. I'll burn them all.

You listen to me, Mark, I'll burn them. So good. Anyways, all right. Before we get out of here, I will say this. Have you heard one thing on Van Vleet? he was like supposed to be the big one out there, right? My impression is going back to Toronto. You mean Tampa?

Oh yeah, Tampa, yeah, Tampa. The Tampa Raptors. That's my impression. But, you know, Detroit expressed interest at one point, Chicago expressed interest at one point, but I would expect him to go back to the Toronto Raptors. Okay. The one prospect that we talked about the absolute most

going into the NBA draft on this very podcast. was Desmond Bain. You got them, baby. You got them. When am I getting you to Memphis? Dude, as soon as this pandemic BS is in the past. As soon as the pandemic is over. Yeah, dude, I'm going to make a trip down there.

I got to see some music. I got to eat some good ass food down south. I got to get down there. When Desmond Bain ends up with the Memphis Grizzlies, I thought this is destiny. This is how I get Kevin O'Connor here. He's not going to come down to see me. but he'll come here to see Desmond Bain.

Because you told me you're going to invest in Desmond Bain rookie cards. Yeah. Yeah, I got a, trust me. Once the, I got a couple Tyrol Terry's and Achilles before the draft. So they're like in their, they're in their college and international jersey for Hayes

and college for Terry. But like those don't have as much value long term as the NBA Jersey's one. So once Panini drops those. There we go. You're on top of it. I love it. I love it. Desmond Pays.

The 20-20 draft. My first entry, the 2020 draft, if only I had started in 2018, I'd be able to retire. Because I would have invested so much money into Luca. Oh, boy. What those are going for now? Oh, boy. The, the silver prism, like the standard one. Yes.

You know, it was like, those went from like 2K and like February to 8K, 9K now. It's insane. What the hell? Hey, how about this? I never knew cards went for this much money, Chris. It's insane. Devin Booker, the rookie was 900, that silver prism. $900.

All right. They traded for Chris Paul. Within two days, they were selling for $13 and $1,400. Wow. Well, wait, repeat that. I've got to hear that again. One more time? They were 900 bucks when I checked.

$9.00. No, Devin Booker. Okay. Sorry. Okay. I heard Desmond Bain in my brain. No, Devin Bucer. They traded for Chris Paul.

And within a couple of days, I saw them for 13 and 1,400 in auctions. I mean, that's how fast. It really is like stocks now. It's crazy. Yeah. I mean, stocks aren't usually that good. Stocks are good, but not that good. Yeah, but you could see people ran out there and it became supply and demand.

People were like, I want Booker rookies because these are the next ones that are going to fly up. I mean, that's my understanding. Like if somebody, I've done some research and have some had some conversations in recent weeks, my understanding is that like if you're in the buying and selling business with cards, it is very reactionary when it comes to if a guy is named to an All-Star game or a guy, like the team trades for a big name player or the team, their teammate gets hurt or whatever. Absolutely. It's very reactionary.

And it's sort of, I mean, sometimes it's unpredictable from our standpoint. That's why I would say this. If you feel like you really know basketball, this is the only, tip I'll give out to anybody. If you are thinking about getting into this, and I'm not the guy, ask somebody that really knows about all of this stuff to give you tips on where to look, how to start, all this kind of stuff, because I'm not that guy, because I do get a lot of questions about that because we've mentioned it on the show. I would say this, if you're going to go into basketball and you're going to buy basketball and you want to bank on somebody now because

you think the cards are going to go up, go do it now before this damn season starts. You've got about whatever, two weeks. Because once the season starts, it's exactly what you say, Kev. The night the guy drops 50 people go on there and try to start buying rookie cards. Those Jamal Murray things went through the frigging roof. I also want to just add one thing. I think it's also important to have a frugal mindset when it comes to your finances. And when it comes to investing, when it comes to investing in stocks or, you know, Bitcoin or or even, you know, cards.

I think it's important that you have enough of like, disposable income. Like, not like, like, like you don't need a ton necessarily. Like you got to do things that you enjoy and things that you make you happy. Maybe somebody that's buying video games or whatever else it might be.

But, you know, you got to have a cushion to support you in case things get railroaded and like, like jobs get lost, especially right now during a pandemic. Investing like a lot of money into something can be incredibly risky, especially if it's all in one. you know, basket all in one player or all in one stock or whatever. You need to have a cushion

to support yourself, especially if you're somebody who, you know, is on the younger side and may not like be living with your parents or whatever. I just think that's important to mention and with stocks as well, you know, sometimes being conservative and having stuff that builds long term and grows over time for your time. Trust me, I am very much in the middle, but I think it's important to all. offer conservative advice for a lot of people who may not have a conservative mindset. But I find myself in the middle quite often. Doesn't mean I don't take good risks.

So do you think it was unwise for me to use my entire children's college fund to buy Jamarant rookies? Would you find that unwise? Should have put it into Luca. There's a lot of Jamer. When you look at what Steph Curry. Josh cheaper. When you look at what the Steph Curry's and the LeBron's award,

now. Hey, does Luca Donchich have a giraffe named after him? He's John Miranda does. Jai Raff. He's at the Memphis suit.

Kevin, I cannot wait for the next 72 hours. Look at us offering investing advice. Look, people can do whatever they want with their money. It's true.

People can do whatever they want. I'm just telling you what I do for fun. I'm not encouraging anybody to go spend their money on stuff. Ultimately, for some people, it may not be about buying and selling. It might be the act of like the fun and doing it. And that's like a totally different thing, you know?

Yep. For some people, it's video games. For some people, it's investing. Please don't go to the Lakers, Mark. I wanted to get that in there before we ended.

Kevin, I can't wait for the next 72 hours. Our Tuesday podcast, as we will see what the league looks like after that is going to be absolutely ridiculous to say the least. Have a good weekend, man, and I'll talk to you on Tuesday. I'm looking forward to hopefully we get a lot more news by Tuesday. And this show is ending at 930 Eastern, 8.30 Central, 630 Pacific.

If anything happens after this show is over that we did not talk about, we are not to blame. We're recording this on a Friday night for God's sake. We'll talk to you next week. Have a great weekend, everybody. You know,