The Ringer NBA Show - Unpacking the LeBron-to-GSW Possibility, Plus Trade Rumors | Group Chat (Ep. 203)

Episode Date: February 1, 2018

The Ringer's Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier are joined by Haley O’Shaughnessy to discuss LeBron saying he would "consider" going to Golden State (1:20), Nikola Mirotic's trade to the Pelicans (9:20), and possible trades for players including DeAndre Jordan (15:05) and Tyreke Evans (19:20). Then, they survey some NBA teams to figure out if they're at their best or worst for this season, including the Nuggets, Pacers, Wizards, and more (27:50). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Mark L. Fultz will be an all-star next year. Basketball is very good. Hello, and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. It is group chat. It's Thursday. It's the dystopia. And Fury Road only goes to Oakland. We are living, what is this, 12 hours since the bombshell story that was Chris Haynes' report that LeBron James would consider going to Golden State if they could make Max Room from Justin Verrier, Haleo Shaughnessy.

I am also considering going to Golden State. They got to get clear out that Max room, though. They got to get rid of play. I mean, I'm obviously very expensive. I feel like this is rumors ayahuasca I'm on right now. I know. I'm just on another plane of living. So mixed reactions to this rumor among ringer staffers.

I think I was a little bit, I had seen hostels yesterday. And, you know, I was thinking a lot about. The movie hostel? Yeah, hostels. Okay. With Christian Bale. And I was thinking a lot about how we got where we are as America. So when I got home and Chris Haynes hit me with this, I was a little punchy.

You were like, not today. Satan. What was your reaction when you heard this rumor? I don't believe it. I don't believe it from either sides. Because first of all, it didn't sound like the Warriors had any idea this was happening or that they were interested or pursuing it.

And I don't see this as something LeBron would ever do. Maybe he would take the meeting. It's close to Napa. You know, he loves wine, but I don't I don't think either sides would ever do this. I think you consider it. I think it's like completely within the realm of possibility

he left once. It's like he went to Miami. You know, like they did. All the stuff in 2011 that seems like ancient history did happen. That being said, I think immediately when you see a story like this, Justin, you have to think why this story, why this story. Why now? Who does it impact? Sure.

So who do you think is the intended receiver and reader of this story? I think the big one, and we've been talking about this ever since, is Dan Gilbert. I think this might as well have been just an email. directly like BCC to him. Yeah. Simply because like ESPN even put out a piece today from Bobby Marks explaining how this would happen. And as you alluded to,

they couldn't really clear the cap space for LeBron to sign him outright unless they like whittled their roster down to five people, one of whom is a first round draft pick that isn't even there. Yeah. And thus you would need a sign in trade to get him to Golden State, which would need Dan Gilbert to sign off. Yes. So this, there's no possible way that it can happen.

And so it pretty much says to Dan Gilbert, look, I'm thinking about the other team that has pretty much been like kicking your ass in the finals the past two years. I feel like Dan Gilbert would sooner trade him back to Miami than trade him to Golden State. I don't know. Miami almost took their third C last night. That's true. That's true. I mean, any other thoughts on this? It would involve apparently, according to Chris Haynes' report, it would involve Clay and Draymond going to Cleveland and Kevin Durant taking less than the maximum amount of money. First of all, why would you mess with this? We're all like, oh, maybe two, three years from now, this Warriors team won't exist. But why would you mess with it right now?

You've already beaten LeBron in the finals. You're going to beat this LeBron team in the finals. I don't see any reason for it to happen. Also, we know for a fact, LeBron is not going to take a pay cut. If he would have, he would have done it this year because his roster needs it. You need someone else. My thoughts more trail toward just like the... the reporting end of this.

Yeah. And just like how this ended up happening. Just because I'm sure like Chris, you alluded to that there is some nugget of scuttlebutt to this. But the logic in order to get to like where we are now is just so kind of bizarre and warp that I don't know like how this end up getting published. It's essentially if X happens then why, but the warriors aren't considering X. And so it's just a complete like yarn ball of like. The thing that jumped out to me on this story, I think you're right about everything except for the part of there's a couple of key lines in here. James's distant relationship with Cavs owner, Dan Gilbert, is well chronicled.

So that's shot number one. And then there's also James and his business team have been known to covert structure, lull, with Golden State and ultra-aggressive general manager and Bob Myers, the ownership group as a whole. And Steve Kerr are the epitome of that. So it's very much a love letter to Golden State's structure and a shot at Cleveland's chaos. The crazy thing is that I think LeBron is equally responsible for the chaos in Cleveland. I mean, I know that Dan Gilbert is an income poop, and I know that there's always this chaos, and he didn't resign David Griffin, and they allowed the Kyrie situation to get out of hand. But part of the reason why there's so much tension always surrounding the calves is LeBron.

Like, he is an agent of chaos to some extent. Yeah, but in his defense, wouldn't you be super frustrated? Over the summer, the one move that they made was like, let's resign Kyle Corber. And he's been good for them, but you can't just not supply him other guys around him. And they sign him 38 minutes a night. Dwayne Wade, though. Exactly. Those are LeBron moves.

Those are like the rules to satisfy him. Okay, true. But as a front office, you have to have more sense than your star player. I'm sorry. LeBron is... But they didn't have a front office. They had Dan Gilbert. True.

Yeah. And it's his fault. Yeah. It's Gilbert's fault. Yeah. I think there are no winners here and it just looks completely ugly for both sides of it. I do wonder how much the casual fan reads into it as much as we do. Like maybe because we're just so far deep into this, we see the like the strings being pulled from LeBron and just kind of like the marionettes that the calves have become.

I do wonder like if you're just Joe fan, do you still have a high opinion of LeBron? Do you see this like side of him? I was listening to Lee Jenkins on Zach Lowe's podcast the other day, and he made a good point simply because he'd been around LeBron for a while, and he still thinks the average fan would be affected if LeBron left Cleveland. I don't know how much LeBron's camp is thinking that and how much that would really affect his legacy. Just that while we see that he went there as much for Kyrie Irving

and for Kevin Love and to compete for titles still when the heat were kind of on the downslope, that the story of him going there and saving them, is still a big deal, and I wonder if that would affect his branding and thus his legacy at large. Well, I'll tell you what. I don't know if Adam Silver could stop LeBron James joining Golden State, but I don't think that fans would love it. No. There's an extent, obviously fans would love it.

I think that their super teams have an allure, but this would be a little bit out of hand. I would just say, let's sim the regular season then, you know? Right. And I understand what you're saying, Justin, about maybe the average fan not caring for LeBron as much if he left, because it was very much a heroic. I'm going to go back to Cleveland. I'm going to win a title. But I also think that's why LeBron and his team

are planting these little seeds and they have been all season. You know, oh, they didn't resign the GM I loved. And then, you know, they didn't get the guys I need around me. So we've seen this all season where it's like, I even think that the average NBA fan, average LeBron fan is thinking they're not doing enough for him. Of course he's going to leave.

Yeah. it's a really interesting shadow war of sub-tweets and planted stories and narrative shaping and if LeBron is going to leave this is paving the way. There's been a lot of these stories where you'll get a

woge story that's about the chaos in Cleveland and never mentions LeBron in the story. Right. Is something that you have to say is oh well we should have seen the science. When he leaves for Houston or Philly or the Lakers or whoever,

the site will all go back to those pieces and say like, see, Isaiah Thomas was a terrible idea, you know, like that kind of stuff. All right, we don't have to belabor this too much. Obviously, I think the next chapter of this story will be all parties involved miserably answering questions about this in press conferences. So I'm looking forward to that personally. Let's do a little check in on some.

Another comic sans letter perhaps. I hope so. Let's do a little bit of a check in on some of the trades and trade rumors. Now, as we are recording, the Nicola Miratich to New Orleans deal has gone through, correct? Seems like it. Yep. That had almost happened earlier in the week and then got tripped up because of... The second year of Meritich's deal. Right, which the Pelicans did not want to guarantee, correct?

Correct. And that's why... Yeah, it was a really confusing process where they just didn't want it on their books, essentially. And did they get out from under Omer? They did, indeed. What a world. I cannot believe it. As soon as Gar-Pax makes me think, damn, they got three good young players. They're really pulling it all together here.

And it's like, nope, you guys just trade it for Omer. I know that his deal is not as poisonous as we kind of assume it is, but it's just nuts. It's still an extra year plus like $3 million guaranteed on the third year. So it is a lot. Is that all the trade was? Yeah, Omer, a first, and I believe that's it for Meritage. That's a lot. That's a lot to get eliminated in the first round.

Yeah, I mean. And this is what we've been talking about all week is that it does feel like the Pelicans have stopped like the facade that they're going for titles anymore. It's just that everyone is all in on the playoffs. Not only do they need it to probably appease Anthony Davis, but also to save everyone's jobs. Guys, GMs are getting bad again. I was thinking about this last night, and this morning reading Zach's piece on ESPN about the Bucks. And then also listening to Rosillo talk about the Thunder. And it's not the Presti or any of these guys specifically are bad. But there is something to the idea that the contracts for these big, big stars, a la Blake, Russ in a couple

years, you know, when he's making 40 million, or if they want to keep that core together, which is what we're sort of going through the math. And he was like, it's a hundred million for Adams, George and Russ, basically, if you want to keep all of those guys. That it's going to force some of these GMs to make some really bad decisions. One of these guys is going to, you know what I mean? And this, this Pelicans thing, which is essentially, we cannot afford as a franchise to let Davis go because the smart thing would probably be to trade him for like the entire Boston full house like whatever they can get from Boston the two jays a first whatever it needs to happen but they're going to keep trying to add mirror titches and they're going to re-sign boogie on an

Achilles because those guys are like that's the path to getting to the sixth seed the fifth seed right I do think that now before the trade deadline, GMs always look a little bit worse. Yeah. And with the Pelicans, DeMarcus got hurt. And we don't exactly know what they would have been, especially with the Pelicans doing something during the trade deadline, in addition to him being on the court and healthy. And it might look a lot better for them. Yeah.

I think you look at the max contract and just kind of the dynamics of the league right now. with the Warriors in place and some teams like the Warriors also kind of chasing them, you need frontline players and those guys get the max. Now the problem is we're seeing if a guy isn't an absolute max, if he's not Kevin Durant, if he's not Steph Curry, then it screws up your cap going down the line. If he's Blake. Right, because you look at some of the teams that traded stars this offseason,

Paul George, even the Clippers had a little bit of a dalliance there. Jimmy. Yeah. Jimmy. Yeah, the Bulls have been feisty at the very least, and they look long-term in better position. If your guy isn't worth the absolute max, I think it's kind of screwing up

like how your team is constructed because you don't have those other guys to fill in because it's no longer just the big three. It's literally a big five in Golden State. And in order to compete there, it's just it completely flips the dynamics to where we are today. Right, right. And mediocre teams are signing those, you know, a little bit.

Maybe they shouldn't be the max, but we're going to do it anyway because they could really push us ahead. And then they're realizing, yeah, but we don't really have the money anymore to surround them with who we want. I was thinking a little bit about Phoenix, who allowed, you know,

they bought out Greg Monroe or Greg Monroe took a buyout and probably gave up a lot of money to go to a playoff team. And I was thinking about how Greg, like, they two years ago were all in on pairing Tyson Chandler with La Marcus Aldridge. And that was the plan. I mean, they wanted to be a player.

And Kevin Love, with Kyrie Irving. They wanted to get in on a lot of these trades. But Phoenix is an interesting case where I feel like their big swings have actually been doubles. And they then went all in on drafting a bunch of young guys. And we don't quite know what Marquis, Chris or Drag and Bender is going to be yet. But as they get older, they look less and less. Ooh, what a mysterious old talent. And it's more like, are they ever going to put it together? It's just a swing and a miss, though, because look at all the teams that have focused on young talent. For some of them, it's working out. For the Bulls, maybe it will work out. For the Sixers, it worked out. But

not for not every team that does it, is it going to work out? Yeah. And just to the bow tie, the Pelicans trade. Apparently, they're also getting a second and the rights to change seconds in 2021. The Pelicans are receiving that. Correct. But they're sending a first to Chicago. Correct. And they're also hoping to clear a few more small roster spaces, contracts for Greg Monroe still. Okay. Well, I mean, Meritage, Davis, Monroe, Drew. It's fun. They'll probably, they'll make the playoffs.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. They'll save their jobs. Especially if the clippers get rid of DJ or Lou Williams. Yeah. It's just interesting. They still don't have a lot of playmaking there, but like we just said, the bar to make the playoffs in the West is very low. Let's talk about some of the other guys who might be on the move. DeAndre remains a clipper as of a recording. We have heard a couple of different

DeAndre rumors flying around there. He'd obviously been linked with Cleveland a little while ago. We're hearing some other Western Conference teams, I think is fair to say. Yep. Yeah. He's another guy where it's like you're going to sign him. You're going to trade. Whenever you trade for DeAndre, it either needs to be rental for rental or you have to have

a really good sense that you're going to be able to resign DeAndre, which then gets to, do you want to pay DeAndre Jordan $30 million or whatever? It's going to be at 30 years old as a big man who, still is a little spotty down the stretch of games. Yeah, and it's exactly what Justin was just saying. I don't think you should. Yeah. Yeah, it really just speaks to how interesting not only the centers are in today's game,

but just like where he is in his development. Like he's 29, I believe. He's never hurt until recently. And I don't know how much he's going to just push you over the top. So I don't know what sort of team he really fits best with. I know the one thing that has been kicking around lately is just the Blazers as a potential destination. Neil L. Shea was part of the front office that drafted him and he kind of built Lobb City around those guys. And so I wonder if that makes any sense there. Nerkich. I don't

know if they necessarily want to pay him long term. And so Portland, another place that has a bunch of guys that were interesting are now becoming not interesting. The Von Leys, the Aminus, all these guys who they've kind of had on the books. And it's like, well, at some point we could package them all together with some picks and make a move for a bigger player. Right. They're kind of getting more expensive and less surprising. I want DJ to the bucks. Okay.

I do think that's a team that he could push ahead. Would you do Henson and Parker for that? Yes. Yes, I would. Because Henson is part of the issue that he could fix. I think that they would be a team that could move forward with him too. This year they're not really in great position. But they're not hiring a coach, so it doesn't look like they want to be in exactly like,

let's make this giant push for the playoffs. But DJ could- All that they're kicking ass with Joe Prunty is their coach. That's that guy. I don't know if we should drop some Jason Kiddshade right now. Go ahead, yeah. But I do think that they could trade for DJ and then still, it could be part of their plan moving forward.

Yeah. I just wonder what DJ is in the playoffs to a lot of these teams. And that's another part of like just where his value lies. Kevin O'Connor brought up the good point that if the Cavs were to trade for DJ, historically, he hasn't played well against the Warriors, which is like the big part of the whole reason you would get him. And I wonder if he can stay on the court in certain situations, not only the free throws, which have been better,

but still might force him off in clutch situations, but if the Warriors are going full death lineup, like, basketball gets smaller. He's just like in the later in the playoffs, so you just start seeing these smaller and smaller lines. And he doesn't have any offense outside the paint. Right. I mean, his game is just very much old school.

So it's hard to combat small ball. Yeah. It just is. For sure. I'm not sure if the big three of Bledso, DJ, and Janus. Like, Janus's potential is yet to be charted. Like, I don't know how great he can be. He can be a top three player, a top five player.

Maybe he is a top five player right now. But I don't know whether or not he can, compensate for the for the things that d'andre would would would take away and that's that's the money if you pay if you pay yonis bledso and dj that's your money and everything else is complimentary and drafts well first of all dj would help them a lot on defense which is maybe something we haven't talked about before but also maybe if i'm him i know i'm turning 30 yeah i would take a slight pay cut to play with yonis would you rather play in houston then though if you're talking pay cuts

no I wouldn't because they have Clint Capella yeah he did get pushed around a little bit against like a team like the Pelicans but then again who has those type of guys right a couple of the names who are still in the mix tyreek evans who has been held out by the memphis grizzlies much this is like now we're in the zone where guys don't play bowl games because they're going to declare for the NFL draft now guys aren't playing the week before the trade deadline because they will probably be traded. So Miratech had been held out.

He got traded. Tyreek held out will likely be traded. Some of the places in the mix. Apparently Memphis is asking for a one. So the teams in the mix for him include Boston, Philly. Who else has been mentioned? Nuggets. The Nuggets.

There's like 30 other teams. Because the Nuggets need another 6'5-6 guy who's not quite a point guard. Exactly. Paolo's recap said Sixers, Thunder, Cavs, Heat, Rockets, Celtics. So all the teams. Boston sounds like, at least according to our fearless leader, in the poll position, they have all the pieces that you would need to make it work. Apparently, Danny Ains always love Tyreeke Evans.

As every good player ever, it's like, oh, Danny's always loved him. So that kind of brings me to the next section, which is Boston looming over this trade deadline, future trade deadlines. and there was something interesting about this Greg Monroe stuff where Greg Monroe got bought out and it was like, well, the Celtics would be a good destination for Greg Monroe. Danny's always loved Greg Monroe, whatever. Is this the first time in the last four years, I guess,

that you would, if you're a veteran, you'd rather play for Boston than Cleveland? That's a good point. Yeah, I think so. Right? Yeah. To say nothing of the fact that Brad Stevens seems to automatically make people X amount better? Terry! Do they even need Tyreek if they have Terry?

Do they need Marcus Smart too? Yeah, I think it just speaks to one, Danny Age seems like he's on a hot streak and seems like he's ready to roll the dice again just to see if he can keep going. And also, I think they're in a really good position where if they get guys on short contracts that could help now, they have just expendable assets

that they can just burn. Like, who has that sort of war chest to be able to do it. And like we talk about Tyreek, yeah, it's ridiculous that so many teams view him as the answer. But he's also the only guy that I can think of that will help your team now is on a short enough deal where you won't have to match it with like huge salaries where you won't have to give up someone who's potentially a high value contributor like the bucks, as we've always said. And also he's on a one-year deal.

He's a literal rental and there aren't that many guys like that anymore. Would you give up the first rent? round pick that they are seeking for Tyreek. Not if I'm the Sixers. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Aren't you the Sixers? No, but this is what I'm talking about.

No, but this is what I'm talking about is like these teams that are in the bottom half of their conference brackets getting a little glue sniffy when it comes to what they need for the back half of the season. Now, is he a rental? Is he from Chester? Would it be kind of like, yeah, we could use a guy who could make his own shot. Like, that's one thing that the Sixers really don't have. do I, when I give up a first for it, absolutely not.

Absolutely not. That's just nuts. Like, you can't do that. You're not there yet. So what, what do you give up for him? The Sixers or anybody? The Sixers or in a more broad sense? I think that the teams that, like, look, if you're Boston, and this is the sort of curious

thing about Boston, because if Boston was the third or fourth seed, they could chalk it all up to not having Gordon Hayward, and they could say, you know what, like, this is the year of like Kyrie vetting in as our face of our franchise, getting Tatum used to things. But they're too good. they're like, they're too good, the calves are too bad, and Boston has a legit shot at the finals. So as long as I thought,

this will not impact my Anthony Davis package. And you're Boston, I would make a move for it. But if at all, you think that this will be, damn, I traded that thing that I could have used for Anthony Davis for Tyreek Evans for a rental, then you're an idiot. Yeah. So why not just get rid of their own first round pick? So if they're going to be in the, bottom five of the first over the next couple of years anyway.

I think that's enough of a price. If you feel like the window is right now, and I think it is for the reason that you just said. LeBron is going to be a terror in the playoffs wherever he is, like whoever's around him. But I think this might end up when we look back, maybe their best chance because there are teams that are coming up. Like what if the Sixers figure things out?

What if Markle Foltz plays and like all of a sudden that they're a legitimate competition here? You started out and I was nodding. and by the end, you have lost me. But Janice, like, Janus could get a jumper. And next year, all of a sudden, like, he's just unstoppable. Like, you don't know what's to come. So if it's not going to damage you too much in the future, going for right now,

makes a little bit of sense. Do you want to, I like doing this for you? Do you want to clear out for Terry Rozier here? Do you want to just talk about triple double Terry? I saw Haley. I looked up what Kyrie Irving had in his first game as a rookie. I will tell you, it was- starter or is a rookie?

As a starter. Yeah. Same, you know. Because it was Terry's first starter in the game. Yes, that was his first start. Yes. So let's see this line. I'm going to tell you right now it's not a triple double.

Six, three, and seven. Wow. Kyrie sucks. So, yeah, I think that's what we can conclude. Yeah. So maybe trade Kyrie for LeBron. Trade Kyrie. Get Tyreek.

Yeah. You know. Kyrie for Tyree for Tyree. You don't need him. All right. I'm really happy that Boston's doing so well. It's really, it warms my heart. Let's take a quick break here from our sponsors and we'll be right back to survey some of the other teams in the league and whether they're at their best or at their worst. Today's episode of the Ringer NBA show is

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and Justin. Haley's game. We are talking now, I want to do something called as good as it gets as bad as it gets. So this is basically taking a survey of a half a dozen

teams who have bit up and down. Are you trying to figure out who they are? Are you Jack Nicholson? I am. Yeah. I wish there was a movie

as bad as it gets. I think it would make like $11. I'm Greg Ceneer. I'd watch it. Especially if Jessica Chastain was extorting. She never extorts anybody in Molly's game.

That's a false spoiler. Right. The bodyguards come and get her. All right. It doesn't have a high enough box office for you to give away major plot points. That's not a major plot point. Did you think that there was not enough cards in Molly's game? You mean like actually showing the cards? Actually like showing poker, like playing people playing poker.

Was that a real complaint? It was the most interesting part of the film. I think like the poker scenes. It was a complaint from all the people I know who liked playing poker were like there wasn't enough poker in Molly's game. It was a complaint from Sean Fantasy is what you're saying? Yes. No, the best part of Molly's game.

was Idris Elba. So there you go. There you go. All right, as good as it gets, as bad as it gets. Let's talk a little bit about the calves, which I feel like all I do is talk about the calves, but I want to talk about them specifically on the court where they're still kind of crappy.

They barely beat the heat last night, one by two points, I think. God, the heat had three three-pointers. They turned them all over 19 times. There was also a lot of Kelly Olinic top of the key drives for floaters, It was really strange. The heater are a weird hang. Yeah, they really are.

We can get to the heat. But the cabs, they barely beat the heat. LeBron played 38 minutes. IT, two for 15 from the field. Nine for nine from the free throw line. Not trying to knock him. He was also plus two. So, you know, when you have a defensive dynamo like IT,

you can handle two for 15. Is this as bad as it gets for the caps where they are right now? Are they going to improve without Kevin Love in the lineup? They're going to be more defensively. I mean, they held Miami to 89. Like, are they going to be more defensively stout? is it only going to go up from here? Are they going to finally be like, you know what?

February is here. Forget January. They had a whole thing about that. Let's take this seriously now. Or, you know, are they only going to go up and down because of Isaiah? I've always thought that when the calves kind of take a dip or seem like they're taking part of the regular season off, it's my main complaint is always LeBron that playing defense. But LeBron clearly played defense last night. Yeah.

So I do think that this. is as bad as it gets. Kevin Love is coming back. They are in every trade talk. So I actually feel very optimistic about maybe not their immediate future this month, but when he comes back, which is supposed to be two months, right? I agree with you. Okay.

With this caveat, I've never seen a Cavs team get smoked like the way this team has been getting smoked. I don't think I've ever seen a Cavs team that gives up 120 and it's not even a surprise. Yeah, this heat game feels like an aberration, just because I assumed it was a low-paced game considering the score was more like 2004 pistons. But I really don't know what to make of where they are right now. I still think the same concerns that we had before are present. I mean, Jay Crowder, if anything, has been playing just a little bit better. I remember there's one game recently where J.R. Smith hit a few threes.

I think you're going to get those sort of games that allow them to win here and there. but the big concern is that defensively they're just as good as the Phoenix Suns, Sacramento Kings, and if Isaiah isn't going to be Kyrie level offense, which you assumed if he was going to be anything, he would be able to fill that role. I just

don't know what they are right now. Right. Their bench is so inconsistent on offense. Even their starters are so inconsistent on offense that you can't rely on that to make up for the defense, which is truly truly awful. I think Kevin put something in Slack

the other day that was like they had the second worst net rating in the league since Christmas. Sure. I believe it. Wild. The other next team I want to do for as good as it gets, as bad as it gets. And this is a team that sort of breaks this, which is the Nuggets. The Nuggets just lost by a combined three points to the Spurs and the Celtics. They've lost by one of the Celtics by two to the Spurs. This is after they had won three in a row. This is the story of their season. Three in a row, three in a row, three in a row, three in a row, up down, up down. right around 500. When you watch them, you talk about the heater a tough hang?

Man, the nuggets are a fun hang. They barely have it together. Like there's so much Yokic playmaking, but like he's such a Bambi on ice before the genius happens. Sure. Where he'll try to dribble and then he gets trapped and then he throws like a no-look pass over his head

and sometimes it's an alley-oop and sometimes it goes in the third row. Then he has to defend. Then he has to defend, yeah. We're like a year or two away from Yokic getting into the gym in the offseason coming back ripped. Because you could definitely tell that there are improvements not only just with his body, but just with his game. I like to call him Big Lonzo, which I promise is an actual compliment. Because he's the type of guy.

Big Lonzo! I just think he's like the type of guy you want on your team. He just like makes everything work there. The problem is like without Paul Millsap there anymore and like some of their young guys just not really being all that consistent, like the bench is terrible. terrible. And so there just isn't much depth there. So when you dig a little bit deeper, you watch a little bit longer after like the highlight play, you're like, what, what it's going on here? Yeah, I really, really like Murray Harris, Yokic, and Liles. Well, Barton, though. Well, this is the thing is that, and then this is another example like Portland of

you had all these pieces that you could have put together in packages and you've been one of the big, like we're in the mix for this player. Like they got their Dwayne Wade meeting. They're always like trying to be a player. And I feel like now it's like, if you guys had invented Facebook, you would have been the inventors of Facebook. Like this is,

you guys aren't about that life when it comes to making the big deal. And I just don't understand what they're going to do with all this crap they have on their books now. I do think that they could be better. This is not the worst or the... It's not the best or the worst.

It's not the best. Yeah. It's not the best. because a lot of injuries. Yeah. A lot of very freaking injuries. Even, yeah. Even against the Thunder tonight,

I wrote down who they're probably missing. So Wilson Chandler and Gary Harris are maybes. Plumley's out for sure. Lydens out for sure. And then obviously Paul. So, no, this is not the best they can get. But like you said, it's very fun. All right.

I just wanted to get my Denver out there. Yeah. No, I just, would Kyrie make a difference here? This season. This season. With Yolkich, Murray, and Harris? Well, they'd probably have to give up one of those guys if they were to make that deal. Oh, to make the deal to Cleveland. Like if this was last offseason instead of Phoenix, the popular rumor was Kyrie to Denver. Right, right. And then I think Blake was also, like, someplace that was, they were interested in Blake when Blake was possibly going to be a free agent. They wanted to get the meeting.

Right. And Kevin Love was rumored as being part of the three-way trade with Paul George. I guess my overall point here is I don't know if you add a superstar to this team if they instantly click and become something. No, I think long-term maybe, but they haven't done a great job of filling out the rest of the roster. And you look at the success that the Celtics have had, it's, yeah, Kyrie has been great for what they do. But what they do is the reason why ultimately they've been great overall. Do you like watching them? You know, I never used to.

I did not. But recently, yes. I enjoy watching them on any given night. Another team that I now enjoy watching, I have to, like, I've neglected them. I just have been, just post-Paul George Pacers was, or really like post the George Hill, Paul George, Lance, like, we're going to make it run at this Pacers.

I just never thought to really watch too much of. God damn, this team is good. They are really good. They're top six offense. I still think Ola Depot should have started the All-Star game. He's been very good for them. And Miles Turner. Yeah.

Miles Turner's good. I mean, Dad Young hasn't been great. I actually hate watching them because of their uniforms. Oh, really? I really don't like their uniforms. And I think you guys liked them. The circle ones? Yeah, I really like them.

There's a lot going on. I don't know. It feels like an XFL uniform or something. Wow, I really disagree with you on that. I'm going to be honest with you. A lot of why I like watching teams is because of their uniforms. Really? So who do you think has the best?

uniform this season. In the league, it's the Celtics. The Celtics are always going to have the best uniforms. I love the vice ones from Miami. I think the Lakers are incredible. The Bucs ones are so nice. The cream bucks ones. The cream one, it's nice.

Looking like cupcakes. Pacers are 7 and 3 in their last 10. They have this explosive offense. They get contributions from pretty much all over their roster, although obviously they're not super consistent because they're still really young. Last night, they had double digits from Bad, Bogdanovich. Turner, Collison, Oladipa, so their whole starting lineup,

plus Sabonis and Lance, and they get minutes from Corey Joseph, T.J. Leaf, they have this, like, they're all playing in the same direction. Like, this is, like, the best you can do when you don't have, like, the superstar player, and you're riding the high,

like, Ola Depot and Turner as your best two players. Right. And the offense has been the surprise. Yeah. But I do think this is the best they can get because their defense is average. And recently, it's been a lot better. But as Caitlin Cooper, who's an SB Nation Pacers writer, who you should all follow on Twitter,

pointed out they, what? Is that cheating? Just throwing out shouts. That's fine. Seriously, she's great. Follow my brother on Twitter. And my daddy just joined yesterday.

But she pointed out that they've been playing teams who are losing teams. teams. So of course, you know, we always have to consider schedule. So I think in the month of January, they were a top five defense, but you just have to look at schedule. And I really don't think that their defense is, is that great, is even good. I think it's very average. I just think the east is wide open now. And I think that's the big advantage to a team that is consistent, that has something going, has kind of figured themselves out at this point in the season. The bucks are on the rise a little bit. The Sixers are hanging in there. But above the Pacers who are six right now, you have the Wizards who just lost John Wall.

And the Heat, who you'd expect them to maintain in the playoff field, but I'm just not a big believer of them as like a top end home court advantage in the first round sort of team. The reason I brought the Pacers up is that they're a possible first round Cavs opponent. Ooh, I like it. So it'd be pretty interesting. That would be very fun. Yeah. Yeah.

I think so. I mean, the thing that's really interesting about Cleveland to hang around this three is they could see the Pacers or the Wizards in the first round. That'd be a nice parallel or kind of full circle to LeBron always playing the Pacers with the heat. Yeah. Right. Now they might be the side of a team that can knock them out. Roy Hibbert.

I miss you. Maybe they could bring him back in just for the playoffs. We can bring him back in. He's like down the street. The whiz, though. Let's talk about the whiz. Is this as good or as bad as it gets? And the reason why I'm bringing this up is that not Ewing theory because John Wall is one of my three or four favorite NBA players, like just personal preference.

But are the Brad Biel Wizards the way forward for Washington? No. No, they're not. I understand that naturally when you have a one and two best player and they're pretty exchangeable, when one of them goes out, the other one just has more room to work. But in the long term, absolutely not. First of all, they've won two games without him since he's been out again. the first one was against a division two Atlanta Hawks team.

The second one was against OKC where Rush shot terribly and they don't have Andre Roberson anymore. And as much as I love Terrence Ferguson, his dunks and his athleticism, I think he had zero points last night. Yeah, it was minus 11. And Patterson had zero points too. So we just can't be like, oh, they beat O'KC, how amazing. I don't think they're better with John Wall.

I think that's a silly thing to say. I would not say that they were better with John Wall, but what happens Or without him. Without him. But what happens when this stuff happened, when an injury like this happens, but there's still another start. This is like when Lillard misses six weeks

and you get a strange like C.J-centric blazers for a while. Shout out of C.J. Shout out to C.J. Jesus. But this is the same thing. Brad played 41 minutes, scored 21 points, had nine assists last night. And all the other guys, you see Porter get 25 all of a sudden. Right.

Just goes off, you know? I mean, what? But Porter is, oh my God. I have a beef with him. What? He's so inconsistent this season. I think that's because of the way that he has been fitting in or fitting out with this team this year. I mean, by all accounts, it's like, Porter's eating by himself.

They're not, like, inviting Porter to this shindig. You know, like, I think. Okay, but reports said he skipped the Rolex party. I thought it was that he wasn't invited. Oh. I don't know. I thought he skipped. I could take his Rolex.

Yeah, seriously. Have you, did you even come to my Rolex party? I mean, you know, I had things to do. You have a swatch. Yeah. I would just look at two different things here. One, it's the same thing we've been saying about the Wizards for two years now, is that they just have such a razor-thin margin of error,

simply because they're so loaded in the front court, but not, excuse me, in the back court, but not the front court. Markief Morris, inconsistent all the time. Marston Gortat, kind of in and out. Like, I don't know what you can really expect for someone. He's ever in? Well, he plays. Yeah.

But not necessarily in terms of being an impact-level player. plays because of all the pick and roll stuff they run. Right. And then which gets me to the next point, which is, I think it also speaks to perhaps the diminishment of kind of a more traditional get everyone involved point guard like John Wall is. Yes. And you look like they've done okay with Sataransky. Although maybe John Wall doesn't get people as involved as... It could be that too. As he should. He does get in these modes where it's just all John Wallball. Yeah. And he kind of loses sight of everyone else. But no, I just, I think it's tough. Again, you have so much money wrapped up in one player and one player who doesn't do everything for you. He's very much a liability

in terms of just gravity in terms of drawing guys out to the perimeter. And I think you can see that having sort of a trickle down effect. Now, I still think he has a big impact on this team. I remember earlier when he went out, it took Brad Beale a while to get off and going. So I wonder if there is a course correction coming as Haley is suggesting. But I think it's interesting. I think long term we're going to be talking about this. I don't see them figuring this out in the next four years. Otto is another guy who, like you were talking about earlier, maybe shouldn't have got the max. Oh, yeah. But you have to give it to him to keep it.

Right. The only thing the Wizards have done in terms of team building is draft guys highly and then pay them the max whenever it's possible. Yeah. And they haven't done any other move that's really padded their roster since. That's why they're always trading a pick at the deadline because they need just another guy in order to push them over the top. And I think that you, I think that it would have been interesting if they had signed Otto and then got. and done to auto what the Clippers did to Blake on a much, like, lesser scale, obviously, and said, great, you're signed someone out there wants a 3-&D guy,

and they've got the money to pay for it. I think that's what they should do. And maybe they will. But I think that you see the Wizards typically, like a more traditional team. And I think that they are a little bit more like, these are the guys we have for the next six years. Let's see if we can make something happen. And you know what?

Like, they got to six games with Boston. They did it. They got into the mix with Boston. But I think that they've just tried to go over the top one too many times of the same group. And the auto trade is really, unless they want to do something wild and swap wall for a package,

this is as good as it's going to get probably for them. Okay, last one, Lakers. Ooh. I don't understand this Lakers team because I feel like in this Lakers team you see all the competing concepts of themselves. that they have. Are they bottoming out?

They don't have their picks. There's really not that much of an incentive to do that, right? Are they a home for superstars? Well, you know, it's not always the kindest environment for superstars here. You know, in Los Angeles has got like a pretty tough, you know, you see what happened with all the guys in the Clippers. The Lakers haven't had a superstar in a while since Kobe, but there's something here where it's like, what do they have to do to make themselves attractive to a superstar arrival?

You don't think that Chris Paul is a superstar? I don't think Chris Paul was ever... We talked about these yesterday at the source to say. I don't think he was ever on the level of Kobe. No, clearly not. But I would say that he's a superstar. I don't know if he's lovable. Hmm.

That qualifies somebody as a superstar? Yep. He's like me. We're tough to be loved. Don't you think that... Don't you think Steph's lovable? Oh, of course. I'm talking superstar.

I went to Oracle, he like, threw the ball to the ref, like, a football. ball and it like went a little bit right of the ref and he turned to the crowd and he shrugged and like three sections could not stop laughing. Yes. Yes. It was incredible. I've never seen anything like that before. I think that that's people often talk about these tiers of players and to me superstar is actually doesn't always have to do with your stats and your basketball ability or like even how many rings you've won.

Or your ranking or whatever. That's almost hard to quantify. Okay. And to me, Chris is not the most lovable player from a fan perspective. That's not an indictment of he might be one of the two or three best point cards of all time. Okay. But in terms of like iconic, I'm here, I'm Kobe, I built the city. That's a whole other thing.

And I think that that's still a shadow looming over the Lakers. Brooke Lopez played nine minutes last night, only played like a minute in the second half. so you would have to assume he's either a trade or buyout candidate. He's in the last year of his relatively expensive deal. They're still sitting on Clarkson. They're still sitting on Randall, both of whom will get paid next year, probably not by the Lakers. Ingram is really good, but maybe not every night. And Lonzo, every time he starts to put it together, goes out with an injury.

Right. I think that Ingram and Lonzo are both players they're going to bet on. I think you're, who was it that Clarkson was just rumored to? The Caps. The Caps. Yeah. I love that. Yeah.

I think that this, are you saying this is as good as it gets for the Lakers? This is a tough one. I just want to know, like, what are they doing this season? Yeah. Are they trying to be better than this? Or are they try to be worse than this? I think they're just waiting, but they... Are they trying to get rid of these guys?

Are they just going to say, screw it, we'll go into the end of the season and let Randall Clarkson and Lopez walk? You could say this about them the past five years. Yeah. And that's the major indictment of the entire organization is that they pretended that they haven't been taking, but they have. And now you get to the point where their only game plan going forward is to hope that the lack of success that they've had in free agency just completely turns itself around because they have magic, because they have Polinka, because they've kind of at least messaged that they've changed the entire kind of look of the franchise. They're no longer the Sad Sack team from two years ago, no longer Mitch Cupcheck, an older guy.

They're no longer Kobe in like a copper band of like Blue Will's and stuff like that. Right. So I think this deadline is going to be super instructive about where they are going forward. Because if they don't make a trade, I know someone was talking about this other day, just the fact that they didn't get in to the Blake Griffin Derby, that they probably won't get into the DJ market.

We'll see. They're clearly hoping that this offseason something comes together. And if it doesn't, I think we're at the point where we really need to look at the Lakers franchise organizations, some of the genie buses of the world, and say, like, what have they done and what are they doing here? Yeah, because I think what's going to happen is that if they don't do something significant at the trade deadline, which by all accounts, they might not, then I think that you're going to start to say, okay, well, they're waiting for LeBron. They're waiting to find out of a LeBron.

And if they don't get LeBron, then they're going to say, well, the plan was always 2018, and the guy, the plan was always 2019 and that class. And we're developing our young talent. And it's Kuzma and Ingram and Ball. But if they want to make a trade, they unfortunately have too good of a player in Kuzma. People are going to ask for Kuzma if they want DeAndre, if they want some of these other stars out there. And I think that there's going to be a competing impulse within that franchise for big names versus slow development. And teams are going to make them work to get off those contracts that they need to clear for this off-season. If everyone sees that coming, nobody's going to want to help the Lakers.

No one ever wants to help the Lakers. That's a really good point. And Polinka sounded very passive when he was talking about the trade deadline. He said, yeah, if people come to us, but it didn't sound like he was reaching for anyone or being aggressive for anyone. I really think the plan is this summer. But what I'm wondering is, what if people don't come this summer? Then are they going to sign a bunch of guys for way too much money and get into the same cycle that they've been in? Right.

I believe very much in Lakers' exceptionalism. I think that's very much a thing. I think a guy like Paul George is the shining example of that, that he wanted to go there above anywhere else, even though there wasn't anything there. Having said that, it can't just be all that. And I think that's what we're going to find out. But you know what, though?

Here's the thing I always think about with this. Someone Haley's age, you've spent most of your, like, so you're in your early 20s. The last five years of your life, the Lakers have been bad, right? Like the last... That's true. The last almost 10 years of your life, the Lakers have been pretty bad.

I mean, they went to the finals and they won in 2008, right? Right. And then they were there in 10? Yeah, they won the one in 10. They lost to Boston and then beat Boston, right? So, and then pretty much it's been a slow decline to where we are now. Yeah, Paul George still believes in the Lakers' exceptionalism. Maybe even LeBron believes in Lakers exceptionalism in his, like, I'm a Cowboys fan way.

But sooner or later, people who are younger than Haley are going to be like, I grew up thinking the Clippers were pretty good. You know what I mean? I grew up in a time when the Lakers were not even in the late part of the playoffs, if it all in the playoffs at all. And that's going to start to affect the public perception of them. You don't think people are still going to hang on to, oh, Kobe and magic. Yeah, I think Kobe is going to loom large, but I always,

especially at the end of his career, I started to separate Kobe from the team, because Kobe separated himself from the team. Clippers need better jerseys if they want to be players. There you go. They need maybe Celtics green. There you go. Okay. Haley O'Shaughnessy, thanks for joining us.

Justin Verrier. Thank you for joining us. We will see you in Golden State. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.