The Ringer NBA Show - Vernon Maxwell on Defending Michael Jordan, Trash-talking, Larry Brown, and Much More | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 29, 2021

First things first, the king of Lakers Twitter, Ry Cole (@JustRyCole), tells Logan why he’s so mad (0:12). Then Vernon Maxwell joins Logan and Raja to talk about his beef with Utah (4:10), where the line is with fan heckling, feeling out of place in San Antonio, playing under Larry Brown, defending Michael Jordan, and a whole lot more.  Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guests: Vernon Maxwell and Ry Cole Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

David Chewaker and Kaz host the mass man show every week, breaking down everything in the world of professional wrestling. Check out the mass man show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. So we're back with the Mad Hooper. And I have a Mad Hooper here that's really mad. His name is Rye Cole. He's been really, really successful with his life. But he's just super mad.

He is the king of Lakers' Twitter. He has on his do-rag right now. He has on his USC shirt. And I'm just trying to figure out, why are you so mad, Raichold? What's good? What's good, logg? So, in the words of Kendrick Lamar on his song, King Kunta, I'm mad, but I'm not stressing. Stay with me here now.

So the Brooklyn Nets are why I'm so mad. And let me, let me tell you the reasons why. So why do they need to get everybody and they mama? First James Hardin comes through. Okay, understandable, you want to get the big three. I get it. Then Blake Griffin, and then it's like, all right, now they clearly are trying to stack the deck. Now Lamarcus Aldridge.

Like, who's next now? Are they getting Thanos? like Blake Griffin's back catching lives. Lamarcus Alders got a new battery in his back in his pack now and he's ready to get going. They got five guys now that were legitimate all-stars and stars at one point. What's the deal? We had this perfect NBA going on last year with a bunch of dynamic duos.

LeBron and AD, you know, Kyrie and KD sitting on ice waiting for next season. PG and Kauai. I think that we had a good thing going. And then now it's all stacked the deck season. You know, it feels like, you know, I get it. and I respect their game. I know what they're trying to do. But, you know, for me, let me explain to you again,

why I'm mad, but I'm not stressing. That's because I'm a Lakers fan. And, you know, if you want to play this game, we can play this game as well. You know, Bronnan A day is sitting there chilling, charging in a hyperbolic time chamber getting ready. We got drumming sitting on ice ready to come through, and I'm sure we're going to play the buyout market even more.

It's cool. We can play that game and two can play that game. I get it now. But still, why does Brooklyn need everybody? That's why I'm so bad, man. Wait, wait, wait, wait, right. Rai, right. Are you, are you, are you mad right now?

Because you were just this mad at the Warriors last year and two years before. And it seems like you're bringing this vitriol to the Nets. Man, look, at the end of the day, yes, I would like to blame the Warriors for this because, you know, they quote unquote ruin the NBA. And now I'm just getting all those emotions all over again when we talk about the Brooklyn Nets. And you got KD. You got Kyrie. You got James.

you got Blake, you got Lamarcus, and they still got money to get somebody else. It's like, who else is about to come through? Like, I'm so hot. I'm so hot and I'm so mad. But I'm going to say it again, but I'm not stressing, okay? I think we're going to be all right. I think the leg show is going to get it together. We're going to get healthy.

You know, the NBA gave us 71 days off, which was something that I think was not fair. Then on top of that, in the stretch where LeBron got hurt, we had like eight games and nine days or something like that, something crazy like that going on. All right, but I think it's going to be okay. We're going to get drumming in the building. We're going to get another guy in the buyout market. And then when it comes time for the playoffs,

I think we got a head collision course going on with the Lake Show and the Nets. It's all good. We can play to stack the deck game if we want to. Lake Show is going to be all right. Lake Show is going to figure it out. And at the end of the day, the Lakers have not going back to back since I've been alive. Let me repeat that for you people. The Lakers have not not going back to back since I've been alive.

Oh, oh, oh, oh. Real Ones up next. What's Hayneung, Logan Murdoch, with the real ones coming to talk to you, before this Vernon Maxwell podcast. Yo, this was really, really good. Very lit, very all over the place. Also, I think it's one of the best ones we've ever done. We talked about Vernon's time in the league, Garden Jordan,

some of the best trash talk he's ever received and given out. And we have an urban legend that was confirmed on this podcast. A lot of laughs, a lot of cursing, a lot of fun. Here's Vernon Maxwell. What's popping? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here with Rajah Bell. Roger, we got a special guest in the building.

Man, one of my favorite players to watch, even though I was like six when he was playing. We got some bullshit. Man, that's motherfuckin' jokes, don't. We got Vernon Maxwell in the building. What's happening, Bernie? Hey, hey, what's good. What's good?

I like that. That was funny. He likes to sneak in some little snide remarks. I love it. I love it. That's my man. I like that. That's cool. Max, hey, I'm coming off the top robe as, look, I'm a former, I'm a former jazz man, okay? Like, I played in Utah. Yeah, we know that. I got to know.

What happened in Utah and what is the little feud you have going all currently with the state of Utah and the state of Utah and jazz fans? Man, I don't know what they want to kill me, man. I don't know what the mic. I'm like, mad as hell, man. Hey, but really, Roger, it's all in fun, man. God damn, man.

I mean, the people say some things to me back the day I ain't like. That's all good, man, but it's all in fun, man. I just keep them on my motherfucker radar. I'm going to keep, I'm going to keep,

like they used to do them slay. I'm going to keep hitting them ass with that whip. I'm going to keep whipping their motherfucking. I'm going to keep that motherfucker on their ass. But I, um, I love people in Utah. Who was the wildest thing they said in Utah? Why?

What is... They just talk all kinds of shit. You know, you know, you know, call them a nigger. All kind of shit, you know, walking in, you know, crazy nigger. All kind of crazy shit, man. Talk about the family. They don't even know me. But it was cool, though.

I guess it was that, I mean, I guess I don't know what the fuck they was trying to do. I guess they was trying to, I don't know. I guess there was intimidating thing or make me scared or something. I don't know. They was fucking wrong motherfucker. But I ain't the only one on my team, you know, heard those damn, you know, the lyrics that them damn white folks was talking about out there. Man, I ain't racist or nothing.

You know, I got a lot of white friends. I grew up with white people and shit, you know what I mean. And so, but the motherfuckers kind of scarred me out there what they were saying to me. But, you know, I mean, I'm a real brother. So I'm okay. Byrne, they was giving you the album cuts of the racism. They wouldn't give you just the main singles. They would give you the album cuts.

I was getting all that shit. The album cuts, all the shit. And the one hit of quitters. I was getting everything. I mean, they were going at my ass because, I mean, I guess I was an out-mouthed on the team. They gave you the whole catalog. They gave you the whole joy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all that shit. But I guess they knew I was going to talk some shit back. So, but, I mean, it was all cool. It was all in fun. I want to, what's the line? Like, we talk about fans, and this isn't just Utah, but in terms of fan interaction with players in the NBA,

the NBA is doing a much better job now of protecting players. You know, sometimes people not just in Utah have to be escorted out like the young lady in Atlanta earlier this year. But what's that line? What was that interaction like with you? How many places did people cross the line with you? Man, I mean, like you said, and that's a good question right there, I mean, that's not the only place, but it just happened every time I went there.

Shit, I went in the stands and smacked somebody in Portland, you know what I mean, for talking about my stillborn daughter, you know what I mean? So the line is when you, when you, when you, when you, like my family and people that, you know, that you really don't know about and, you know, talk about people that, you know, that we love and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, you can't talk about mom. I don't, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, know, I don't want people talk about my mom, you know, and, you know, because my mom, she brought, you know, four of us by herself, you know, I mean, and she had to work two jobs.

I really didn't really see her that much, you know, I was with my grandmother and my grandfather. God bless them. And, you know, I don't want people talking about my family and, and there's people that I love the most. You know, I mean, you know, just, you could talk about me, the man, talk about the player. I'm out there. I'm the one you see and you think you. know, talk about me while I'm planning and try to get it in my head and try to get me off my square while I'm playing. Because that's the, that's the objective, ultimately the objective

try to get the player, you know, mad, upset, office square, way it can't play and can't perform. And that's cool. Do that. But don't bring my family in the shit. That's all I'm saying. That's when the line. That's when you cost the line. Yeah, that's a bet. Let me, hey, Logan, let me follow up because I always found it real interesting, Max, because I too, you know, I walk the line. when I played, right? Yeah, of course you did. You know, you buy a ticket, and as a fan, you think because you buy that ticket, you have a right to say any fucking thing you want to say to me.

No, you do not, right? Because unless you want to, unless you're ready to square up about this, then you need to keep it. Yeah, keep it clean. Yeah, and I always felt like as a player, the ones that got under my skin, or at least maybe not even under my skin, but that captured my interest and maybe could distract me, were the ones that were more funny than hateful.

like the ones that had a little creativity about their shit. You know what I mean? I would engage that person. Not that, you know. Yeah, yeah. I always found out interesting. Yeah, right. I'm with you on that too.

Right. So, because sometimes, sometimes I need the motherfuckers to, they're like, you know, it's hard to get up and play 82 straight game. So sometimes I'll find a motherfucker, you know, in the stand to, you know, to get me going. You know, so I might need that. I might need it that night. You know, so shit. it.

What goes through your mind when that happens, right? Because you hear my fuck is saying something out of pocket, and I've heard that in, you know, in certain cities. When you hear that, do you just see black? Do you see red? Do you just be like, no, fuck you, bro. I got to say something to you because you out of pocket right now. You're forgetting that I'm a human being.

Is there a red? Is there a red that just goes right there? And I'm just like, no, fuck this. I got to see this dude. I got to see this person. It's like a black shit you said at first, the black dot. Yeah.

And, you know, like you said, and at the end, what you said, you know, motherfuckers think they could say what they want because they bought a ticket. And like you said, once again, I'm a human being, man.

We bleed too, man. We have feelings and shit. Everybody think we're invincible because we these professional athletes and shit. But still, man, man, man, we're human beings, man. We got feelings, man. Shit, I mean,

motherfuckers don't understand. And we cry too, shit, you know. And we hurt too, you know, when we get hurt. So motherfuckers need to stay mindful of that shit. Yeah. No doubt. I'm curious, Max, because, again, as a guy who wore it on his sleeve and sometimes could be misunderstood, right?

There were some places I went as a player where my own organization really didn't understand who I was. And it wasn't embraced for me to kind of be myself. You know what I mean? Like, there were other places where they were. They saw the value in it and they said, hey, do what you do, baby. Like, you know, be you. Did you come across that at all in your career?

Were there places that didn't get who you were and it didn't work because of that? Well, yeah, you know, towards like when I guess when the thing happened, when I went to the stands out in Houston, you know, I felt like I was like an outcast. You know what I mean? With the rockets, you know what I mean? Because, you know, I mean, I think they should have, you know, handle it better than what they did. You know what I mean?

I mean, if you're going to bring in Clyde. you know, the way they did because I got suspended those 10 games when I went in the stands and smacked the old dude. When I got that suspension, they just like outcasted me. They never heard from them the whole time I was suspended. Then I had to hear through TV or news reporter calling me and telling me that they're quiet Clyde. So I was like, well, damn, all this shit is fuck.

You know what I mean? So, yeah, during that time and when that shit happened with all that, that's when I felt that man. Yeah, so yeah, I feel your pain. And with that shit with them, it hurt at me the most because I gave those motherfuckers everything I had. You know what I mean? So, and I thought that was fucked up, you know, so, yeah. I do want to get into your relationship with Houston in a second.

But you've said something on Bomani Jones's pod, which was really good. I also go check that. I was really good. Where you talked about, you know, your first few years in San Antonio, right? And it just wasn't a good fit you in San Antonio. You like to go to functions. You know what I mean? You like to get a little vibe going.

How was that for a young player? Do you think that teams should do a better job of understanding their rookies and understanding who their players are than they did with you? And maybe you guys could come to a better understanding or do you think that it didn't matter what was going to happen? You was just going to be out. You was just going to be doing what you do. Like, how could there have been more of a common ground for you in San Antonio and in other places because of that?

Well, I think nowadays, right now, these days, times that they do a real good job of knowing who the hell they're drafting now than they did back in the day. You know, I mean, because I don't think what Denver and San Antonio ended up with me in my rookie year, Denver drafts me. Then I got traded in like 15, 30 minutes later to San Antonio. So, I mean, I never had any talks with neither one of those teams. So I don't think they know anything about what I did off the floor or what kind of person I was. So they just drafted a product back then. But nowadays, they do a real good job. Like, they know everything about these kids.

And, I mean, all the way down to their aunties and to their cousins, they know everything about their best friends, who they hang out with. But, I mean, it's totally different now than it is back. in the day. Do you think that it would have been better? I feel like the story of your career is being misunderstood, right? Do you think that you would have done better, had a team or someone did the research on you and at least try to find common ground with you if you were in this era of basketball? Yeah, I think, yeah, it would have helped for people to know who the fuck they was drafted.

But, I mean, I mean, it's like I said, it's totally different now. And I think if I would have been with a team, like you said, that really would have understood

the player that they drafted, the product that they drafted, I would have probably did a lot better. But I think I felt in a great situation when I came from San Antonio to Houston. Then with Don Cheney, you know, and Carol Dawson and,

and, and Rudy T. Rudy T was assistant, Carol was a sister, and Don Cheney was the head coach. When Don Cheney brought, man, he was like, hey man, just like Roger said.

He said, hey, man, just go out and be the fuck who you are, man. Just play, you know, just do your thing. And that's when I took off right there. That's powerful, though. Like, no, somebody believing in you like that and empowering you to be yourself.

Yeah. You know, ultimately that's what gets the best results out of players. It's what got the best out of me. Right. Max, I got to ask you, though, before we go on and Logan's going to take us on, like, the arc of your Caracasia, I can see him already, ready to go. Like, fuck, fuck.

Let me just ask this one question, bro. You and I never play pickup together, right? Like, we never crossed past. Right. But there was an urban legend. There are urban legends, even within, like, NBA circles, dogs, about you in pickup games with the bag. Like, I need to know. The urban legend was then, like, if Max came in the gym with them,

bag that the strap was in the bag. So I need to know. Like, is that factual? How, like, how did this begin? Yeah, man, that's the truth. You know, everything. Well, I'm glad we didn't play because I got hot in pickup games. I'm glad we did not cross pads.

Yeah, yeah. No, I did too. That's what I used to do, too. That's the only reason I used to have it because I know myself and the pickup games. And I used to go everywhere all across the country and play everywhere. And then, you know, and then I knew myself, I was going to get caught up in a city. And I knew I'm going to need that motherfucker.

So I was honest. What did you carry? Oh, 9mm. Okay. I always wanted that. Yeah. Like, that shit made my day. I needed to know.

Wait, so you used to go across. What was that then? Logan, this shit was like, it was urban, like real talk. Like, in NBA circles, like that was, I needed to know. Shit. When I used to go on them damn. arenas. I used to have them there and the marinas when I used to go in the

goddamn, yeah, all of them city to city, state to state. I have my backpack on when I walk and got that basketball game in the arena. I have my shit with me. I'm locked and loaded all the time. On the plane.

Fuck this shit. Oh, man, that's great. He says he keeps that thing on a You said he'd get that thing on him. Yes. Yo, I, listen, I ain't trying to incriminate you play up. But so what was the importance, though, of, like, you used to be in this, used to be shooting dice in Third War, like, you used to be outside.

What is the importance of a person who works, especially as an NBA player that is outside? Because I'm in the Bay, and I'm from Oakland, and I've seen Draymond, like, you know, be in the community and, like, really be out outside in his community with Marshon and a random like backyard just celebrate but he's of the community. Why was that so important to you? Because that's like, that's where I was born and raised like, you know, and the hood like that.

You know what I mean? So I felt like, you know, just for them to see an NBA player, you know, Vernon Maxwell, you know, one of the main guys on the Rockets, you know, people got need to see that shit, that's black folks, you know, in the hood. Well, you know,

give them some encouragement, you know, when they see it. Damn, this shit is for real. You know, this shit ain't no common. You know, this shit ain't a commercial. This shit is for real. You know, damn, look at Vernon Max when this motherfucker's for real. Look at this motherfucker on his knees over here in the hood, shooting dice, you know, with all my people's. And it's a crowd, too, because I'm over there.

I got the big body over there, you know, and they already know. What kind of car you had over there? What kind of was a sixth? That's a sixth. I had Ferrari testarosis over there. I had my porches. I had all kind of bodies over there, man. I just, I mean, they knew it was me.

So, you know, because of tag already told it, you know, who it was. So, and then so it's a crowd. And, you know, I ain't, I ain't staying long, you know, I'm giving them a chance to win $2,500. I'm a win, you know, and I got to go. I got to get to the fucking game. You know, I got to get to the game. So I got $2,500.

I'll go. Yo, when you, when you get to a new city, right, do you automatically like, yo, where the streets at? I need to go to the hood. I need to see my people. Do you, what's the process when you get to a new city or when you get to a new team or where I need to be? Well, I don't know.

I don't know. It always gravitate to me. You know what I mean? I always find it. A lot of places I always been. I already knew people, you know what I mean? And I already knew where it was. You know, I mean, like I was in Philly.

You know, I mean. I was in South Philly. You know what I mean? And I mean, I was in North Philly. I was every, you know what I mean? So, I mean, in Sacramento, I was pretty much caged up. You know, I mean, because it's nothing out there to do, you know, the shit.

It was just, it was flat laying out there when I was out there and me, C-Web, Jason Williams, and Corlis Williams and Blotty DeVox, DeVox, Pagia. It was just, it really wasn't too much to do. I mean, at least I didn't know about it. And if I didn't know, I didn't think it was anything to do so. But other than that, Seattle, you know, I found it, you know, everywhere. You know, everywhere pretty much, I mean, San Antonio, I know where it's at. And Dallas, I know where it's at.

So, I mean, but yeah, they always, you know, yeah. Did they really try to have a clause for you when you was in San Antonio not to go to Houston? Is that true in your deal? Or they tried to? No, they wasn't a clause for me. Not that they had a clause. Well, they were, well, what happened with that deal? That was crazy as hell, man, because the motherfuckers.

They sold me for $30,000 to the Rockets, but what happened for the sale was Larry Brown told me not to go to any more clubs. And I did. And then when I went that night and shit, and the next day I called me early in his office and told me, you know, I told you that, I mean, you stay out the streets and, you know, shit, I'm 23-year-old black man getting money back in 1980, 89. shit.

So I don't know how to do that. And then I went out there, and they called me in the office, told me, motherfucker, we're trying to get rid of you right now as we speak. I'm getting rid of your ass. So I was like, damn, okay, well,

I'm confused now. You don't even got to come to practice, so you're just going back home. So I'm like, God damn. So came out, we're getting rid of, we're trying to trade him. And then I heard he, Rockets was trying to get him. And so I was like, cool, let that go through.

Caracas got me. But they wasn't trying to block me. They just trying to block me from going to the fucking clubs and shit in the bars and shit like that there. Because I was staying in fights and shit. Noges is trying motherfuckers. Let me. I mean, you just touched on it. I like to, whenever his name comes up, I have to talk about him, Larry Brown.

I had him as a rookie, too. How hard is that man on rookie? Well, you know, boy, then you know, you know, boy, you know then. You know, it's tough. That motherfucker's tough. He is a tough-ass dude. I don't want to go through that, boy, he broke me. That motherfucker broke me down.

Yeah, yeah, that motherfucker had me. Why, I ain't want to play like no more, man. I mean, he had me fucked up. I was discombobulated. I'm real talk. Like, this ain't even a question. After my fucking second year with the Sixers, like, I played, you know, Larry is one of those dudes who like, like, he likes shit he don't have. Right.

So, like, you know, when I was new and he didn't. know me, he really loved me. As soon as he figured out the holes in my game, like he did, I was broken. I had to go to Europe, Max. I couldn't, I was questioning whether I would play basketball or not. I told you. That's what he did to me.

Broke me. That motherfucker broke me too. Guess what he did? So when I left there, and I know this shit's about Max, but I got to tell the story. I left there, I'm like, yo, I know if there's one motherfucker that will never, ever want me to play for him again. That's right.

Guess what he did? Brought you back again. He fucking traded for me. He did that to me, too. The same goddamn thing, he bought me. I played for him twice. I played for him in San Antonio, and I played for him in Philly with AI. I was like, well, God, damn, what the fuck this?

I thought this motherfucker hated me. I ain't know what the fuck was going on with that shit. That's great. Yeah. Second time around with L.B., I was cool as shit, though. He was not the same dude as he was when I was a Root. He was totally different. That's right.

I agree. I agree. Damn. That's real. Yeah. It's just crazy. All right, let's take a quick break. Hey, man,

who was it like being AI's vet? Because it just seemed like two motherfuckers that just like to go to the same, learn the same lessons. Well, my man, you know, shit. You know, I was just like, Larry Brown was just like, hang out with this motherfucker, man,

and just make sure he, I was like, shit, he got his boys, but I was just hanging out with him and shit. I was just, shit, even from the benefits, too. Shit. He had Uncle, he had Uncle Moe,

was Mo around. Yeah, all the boys. All the boys. Yeah. Yeah, all the boys. So I was just hanging out with the motherfuckers, and we were just having a good time from city, city, state to state. We was like, oh, we was on, but it was like a goddamn we was on tour.

Well, like, so, so I remember, it's funny you say tour, because when, when Alan would come to Oakland and will come to, to play the Warriors, the family room will be ridiculous. They would have to have a whole separate room just for Iverson's people. And then when he would come out to the club out there, whole entourage was like Michael Jackson or somebody came through. I remember one time he got my pops in a club because my pops was just waiting outside and he was like, yo,

and he just walked in with the entourage. That was crazy. What was it like being? Yeah, what was it like being with AI like that? Man, you get all the perks, man. I mean, shit, even I was burning Max, but shit, motherfucker was like, oh, no, you with him? No, you shit.

Go on in. You with him. They forgot who the fuck I was. So it was a blessing, man. I love that. Man, I talked to him yesterday. I mean, actually, I mean, he's in Florida right now. He called me last night around 10 o'clock and just said, hey, Max, man.

I'm just calling and seeing my big brother, all right, man. You okay? I was like, yeah, I'm good, man. Damn, man, man. I'm glad you're checking on me, man. You all right, man. God damn, bro. Thanks for checking on him.

Boy, I love, man. I love you, boy. He's like, man, you know, I love you too. All right, man. I'm out of here. I think he was in Miami somewhere. Somewhere, you know, he stayed gone. Chuck, see, does that why people like, both questions for y'all?

Is that why people gravitate towards Chuck like that? Because he's that, he's always, yeah. He was one of the best teammates, though. Like, aside from all the other shit you want to talk about when you talk about him, right, right. He was a real good dude. No, man, genuine, man. I mean, really, really good dude, man, yeah.

Yeah. Hey, Max, I want to ask you about that Rockets team, man, and the championships that you were blessed enough to win. were you guys aware, like, MJ not in the league, get a window maybe open, or were y'all like, MJ or no MJ, dog, this is our time? Well, we was MJ or no MJ.

It was our time. But shit, in the back of our minds, I knew we was like, damn, okay, Mike ain't playing the shit. You know, it was going to be an astromark by the damn, you know, 93, 94, 94, 95, you know, championship team. So because of MJ was playing, you know, trying to play baseball.

So, but we, we knew it was going to be motherfuckers saying that. But like I keep saying, once again, the numbers don't lie. I mean, when we were playing them, we were beating their ass. I mean, we was just a problem for them. We matched up well against them. I mean, just like Seattle matched up well against us, we couldn't beat the motherfuckers. Gary Payton, Sean Kim, all the motherfuckers they had out there. We couldn't beat them up.

Ricky Pierce, all the motherfuckers coming off the beach. They just had a bunch of, you know, they had a bunch of motherfuckers that matched up well with us, Nate McMillan. I mean, they just had a Dana Barrels. They had a bunch of motherfuck. Yeah, I'm trying to see motherfuckers. Forget all about that little shooting motherfuckers.

Shoot the from the pocketbook. The motherfucker was dangerous, man. Couldn't guard nobody, but that motherfucker was showing us stuff. Damn, but I mean, so, I mean, we just couldn't get past them, man, and shit. But just look at the numbers, man. I mean, we're to beat their ass.

What is it, what is it like? What was it like playing against MJ, man? What was it like? Because you was somebody that was a foil for him. You was somebody that got under his skin. You didn't give a fuck about MJ. Roger, no. You know, when you play against that motherfucker,

you got to be a little different. You can't go in that motherfucker game, like, passive. And, and, like, that motherfucker, he can sense a motherfucker if you're scared, you know, and you can't, can't be none of that shit. You have, you be all that, all that shit looking all, like, oh, like you've seen something motherfucker that scared you and you, when he elbow you and your shit, if you don't do nothing, if you don't elbow that motherfucker back in his shit, you know, he's going, oh, he knows he got

a bitch out here tonight. So, you know, so, so I'm just being 1,000, man. He's a killer out there, man, and he's a dirty motherfucker. But I'm just saying, yeah, he was. I mean, you have to be, man, to be that great, man. I mean, night in and night out. You have to be a dog and have to have that grit, that dirty shit and all that. So, I mean, Roger know what I'm talking about.

Listen, Max, so I got MJ at the tail, but I got his little bro. Like, I got Kobe in his prime. Okay, that's right. He was the same dude. The same killer. That's right. And Logan, the craziest thing is like, there are a lot of dudes who are really good players, right? Like great skill sets and athleticism.

combinations, all of that. But they're truly great ones. Like, and there's only a few of them. They smell, they smell the fucking fear. They test you early. Yeah. They test you early. And if you don't put, if you don't stand up to that shit, it's a rap.

It's a rap for that night. It's well documented. It's well documented the first time, or one of the first times, Roger got tested by cold. But what was one of the first times that Mike tried to test you and try to test Joe gangster? Well, I think I, I tested. I put that shit out there.

You know, I think I was trying him. Like, I don't think he really knew a lot about me. But, you know what I mean? But I know he knew who I was. But I was fucking with him, you know, trying him. What was you doing? I just, you know, talking shit, let's say a little shit. Get a bucket on him.

Yeah, motherfucker's going to be a whole night for you too. You know, I just say it was shit and just, just want to, couldn't believe I was out there playing against this motherfucker. And, you know, I just wanted to see. if everything I heard it was true and shit it was everything

it was true is that a lore that a lore that you see when you play like when you know for my generation

it's like when LeBron come to town right when LeBron comes to town there's an aura around the whole building

and that affects players too even when even when Steph comes to town like there's an aura like oh shit he's coming to town

how do you block that out how do you block that I say fuck that fuck him I'm me too I'm burning Maxwell How do you block that out?

And how fast did you have to do that before you play, Mike? Well, it's crazy because, you know, it's a different damn, it's a different thickness in the air when you walk in the gym with Michael Jordan in the arena. You know, it's a different vibe all the whole day. People perked up a little bit more. Everybody perking. You know, every motherfuckerucking body perking. I'm on the heads and shit.

I'm sitting back over this motherfucker looking at these motherfuckers with this red and black on. I don't know if they, for the Rockers of them joining. So I'm over this motherfucker. I'm eating lunch out here. I'm mad at shit. I'm looking at these motherfuckler. They waving at me, bitch. I don't know.

I don't know if y'all from joining me. So, you know, yeah, I'm all ready to get myself ready. But yeah, it's a different vibe. Well, I tell you, when the motherfuckers like them coming to the city. So I didn't think about it as much. And I'll go and get a lot of rest that day. You weren't hitting the streets before then. Was you hitting the streets before you played Mike?

No, I never could do that. Nah, it's certain motherfuckers you can't hit the streets with. You know, like Reggie Miller and Mike and, you know, and motherfuckolders, you got to chase around. Pager's the boy name. God bless you dead. No, not the boy. Petrovich. Drozze.

Yeah, Drozzen, Petrovich. Yeah, God bless the dead. Good God. You have to go and sit down and get off your feet for them, motherfucker. You got to be ready to chase a motherfucker all night long. I got a Reggie story, though. I said, when you know how you said, you talked shit back to Mike early, right?

So I said to Reggie and Salt, like, I hit a bucket and I looked at him. I said, yeah, this shit's going to be all night. Now, he was chilling. This was his farewell tour. He was chilling. He gave me like 25 in the next three quarters. I scored like two.

Like, just shut that shit all the way down, right? He turned it all the way down. Max, hey, let me ask you, because I always found like cats to play with Kobe, right? Or cast it play with great ones. They got a little extra chess, a little extra heartbeat because of what Kobe does.

Can you dig what I'm saying? Like that shit always made me mad. Like, you're not Kobe. No, yeah, you ain't cold. You're bummed ass over that. Yeah. Who, were there people on the Bulls team that y'all knew? Like, you're not built like that.

Like, you're acting like that because Mike, like Black Cat is on your team, but you are not built like that. You are tourists. Relax. Yeah, there's a lot of the motherfuckers on the Bulls like that. But, you know, But I, you know, I love, you know, Scotty, Horace, Dennis, all of them, was my guys, you know, all of them.

You know, I ain't going to say no names. But it was a lot of. No, I got you. I got you. But, yeah, like, you know what I'm talking about those right there. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They become a bad motherfucker because they went mic in them.

So, yeah. Who were the players like that as you just talked about, right? Because you, you know, from what I've seen, you talk a lot of shit. So when, who are the people that your shit talking just didn't work and it fucked with you? where you're like, fuck, man. Nothing that I'm saying is getting to this motherfucker right now. You got a lot of motherfuckers just talk back, though, and be like, fuck you, nigga.

You're like, Roger, you used to talk back to him with his young ass when he's coming to league. I just, I just go, I just try Roger. Rogers, his young ass, just talk back. You know, I'd be like, damn, this young motherfucker, he ain't biting. This motherfucker, he ain't going to take this shit. There you go.

There's a lot of guys, man. Stackhouse. I mean, there was a lot of kids, man. I mean, a lot of guys, man. So it used to be funny to me. I went to school in Boston, like, for two years. And the narrative around that town at the time when I went to school was it could also have some racial, like, you know, some racial undertones playing out in the city and so on and so forth. And that garden, that garden used to be.

Was it as bad as you said Utah was to you? I was bad. And I was bad at Utah. It was bad at Utah. Yeah. Yeah, it was bad in Utah. But I just forgot all about them because it was so long ago. It was so long ago, Utah, they was right there in the back of my head.

So that's why I kept Utah. But, yeah, it was bad. It was bad in Utah. Yeah, Boston was real bad, especially back in the late 80s when I came in the league. I'm sure it was bad for matching them in the early 80s and shit, too. But I know when I got in that in the late 80s, it was bad. It was bad. I mean, shit.

The locker rooms were freezing. and I mean, and they cut the heat off in the locker room. I mean, they tell you the way you just wear a warm up to the goddamn game. And you just keep the warm, yeah, because you just don't even put on your goddamn street clothes because it's going to be freezing and that motherfucker when walking there. I mean, so it was bad, man. And there was some racist motherfuckers up there. Yeah.

Yeah, it was, I mean, it was real bad. It was real bad. Yeah, back, yeah, even when I got it in the late 80s, it was bad. So I knew it was real crazy for bad. I'm in early 80, so yeah, it was bad. Yeah, that's crazy. And that's a good, I'm glad you bought, I'm glad you bought that up too, Roger.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. Yeah, for real. We talking about trash talking. Who are some of the trash talkers now that you actually believe? That I actually believe, Harden.

Steph don't really say nothing. He just be smiling. That shouldn't kill your son. No, no, no, no, no, no. He will. If you get it, he will. He will. He will.

He will. He'll say something on the law and you'd be like, what? Let me have some quiet. You're on some quiet, like some shit there. I'm like, you wouldn't even like think this stuff says some shit. But he'll do some shimmy shit though. He'll do even more mad. That shit to make you madder.

Yeah, all that. Him is shaking and shit and doing that all this shit he read, I don't know. He'll stuff doing out of this, but, yeah, all that shit. I mean, it's a, I mean. What would you do with shit if Steph shimmied? And like, he, he like, shook the, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, I know his daddy. He's like my nephew, so I know his daddy.

He's good. I love stuff. I've been knowing stuff ever since he's been a kid. All right. So hardness, Steph, who else? Like, what else? Who else is the ones that you actually, like, believe? Like, okay.

All right, for sure. I like, I like Dane, Dane, Dane, the killer. Dame time. I mean, shit. I mean, there's a lot of them out here, man. Shit and B. I mean, you're talking about. A guy that's talking shit

and can back it up, right? That's what you're saying. Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah. Kyrie's, oh, my goodness. That's crazy. What he's,

I don't know what the fuck. I don't know how you handle the damn ball. I don't know how you do that shit. I don't know how you go or dad. That's magic. That's some magical shit. What Kyrie doing with that basketball, that's crazy.

So, I mean, and KD, when he's healthy. Yeah. I mean, yeah. No, nobody guards Kyrie, though. No. I mean, that shit's almost impossible, bro. Like, you're just hoping he misses half of that shit. I mean, for real.

I mean, and all that shit, look like it's all in bad. They look like it's a bad shot. But didn't I be like, no, that's a fucking good shot. I mean, good God. With Kai Rito, like, even his layup package is nasty. How the hell you get that in there? The best finish. The best finish.

The best finisher. That motherfucker don't, he probably can't jump. of a Bible. But that motherfucker will be hanging that motherfucker will be hanging in the head. I'd be like, how you get from that side to this side and finish with both hands? He's the best finish. One of the best finish I've ever seen.

Besides Rod Strickland. Yeah, yeah. No, that's tough, man. No, Ross Strickland. Ross Strickland, man. He used to get there and finish. Is he the tough? Who the toughest you had to guard? Mike.

Mike? Why? Yeah. I know what we see, but I had never guard. it, Mike, but why is he the poor? Just everything, everything you've seen and, and everything, shit, just what y'all didn't hear out there and the strength and he's strong as hell and can go either way left, right,

and then when he put the post game in his game, and that's when he took off out there when he started, like, he ain't have to face you up as much and take that beating. He just got to get you on the block and ask for it and just turn around and hit you with that and jump over your ass and knock your head off. So, I mean, just because of all of that,

and then on the defensive end, you know, he was a good defender, not, he played passing lanes well. He wasn't a good defender like everybody think he was on the ball. You got it, you're going at him. He ain't a good defender like that. Now, he can stop you from going one way, but if you can kind of that shit and go another,

other way, you can get by his ass. Man, that's what I, that's what I knew about him, though. But he's a great defender in the past night. This is a question for both of you guys? Is it frustrating when you garden a player and you know what's going to happen and you can't do shit with it? Is that, because I see, Mike, we all know his moves. The same with Kobe.

We all knew his moves and it would still go in. Is that frustrating? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, for me, I mean, yeah, but I mean, you know what's coming. You done scouted this shit. You've seen family of this shit. You just can't stop it. But like they say, teams that press don't like to get pressed.

Like players that score don't like the, you know, so you got to go back at that motherfucker. You can't, you know, and that, that, that levels that shit off, you know, when you do that. You know, I might not be a guy that average, what he average, like 31 points, but motherfucker, I'm going to be getting 24, 26. I'm going to get above my average what I be doing. Motherfucker, I'm going to be relevant because your ass going to be playing. some defense too.

Yeah. Yeah. And that gets lost in the equation. Like, it really is a difficult job to have to be the primary offensive player and the primary defensive player. So if you can get the ball against like a Kobe or a Mike and make them work, that gets into those legs a little bit. Yeah.

Damn right. That's right. I always found Kobe was super frustrating in Logan because, well, good OB's good D all the time. Like, that's just what NBA, you know, a good score is going to be good defense. But Kobe and I imagine Mike too, like you watch the film on them, you get their tendency, and then let's say you have some success

like stripping that ball if they keep it low after they hit you with the shimmy. It's only going to be one time. That's right. He ain't going back to that shit. He don't remember that shit. That's right. And it's frustrated.

Kobe would tell me, like, I'd strip him and no bullshit. He'd say to me, damn, I forgot you got them quick-ass hands. I can't do that again. And he wouldn't do it again. And that's frustrating. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Well, Mike do that shit with you? Yeah, man. I mean, they scout you. I mean, the great players, they scout you just as much on defense. You'll scouting them on offense. That's what they do. I mean, and that's how they know, you know, what your tendencies are. And they have to know that because, and they know coming in the game, like guys like Roger are going to get at their ass.

And Kobe knew that. God bless him. And guys like myself, Mike knew coming in the game, you know. So he watched and they watched us. And, I mean, like they say, defense players don't get no. fucking credit. You know, I mean, it takes hard to play defense. It's easy to play offense. I mean, that's where you get to all the credit and accolades and all that shit.

But motherfuckers don't really get accolades and get talked about, oh, before the guy, oh, yeah, Roger Bell, you can't wait to see him. He's going to lock up this motherfucker that night. Man, they don't want to hit. Who want to hear that shit? Motherfuckers going to talk about a motherfucker who having 30

and 40 points. And, you know, I mean, so that's what they want to sell. Yeah. Who the best defenders right now? your eyes right now. I love Chris Paul. He doesn't get a lot of credit down. Like, I know he's a locked down defender. Yeah, he is.

I like him. I like Ben Simmons. Not Draymond, but he ain't the best fucking ever, though. He said he was the best ever. Yeah, all that bullshit. Now, he's good, though. I mean, I mean, shit.

He just want to be talking about or something. I don't know. But shit, he's good, though. I like Drayman. He's a good defender, though. I like the boy over there in Utah. Are we, Utah? You like somebody in Utah?

Okay. I like, I like a lot of more. Royce O'Neill. I like Ross O'Neill. He's, he's, wait, wait, he likes a lot of stuff in Utah. Well, no, I like players in Utah. Okay. I like Ingalls.

I like Ingalls. I like, I like O'Bare. I like Mitchell. That's my guy, Mitchell. I like players. I like their players, man. They got some great players out there. I like Colin, you know.

Sure. Yes, but it's a lot of players. I can keep going, man. I like the boy, you know, Houston got a couple of great defenders. I like the boy with Brooklyn, too, the little garbage man, Shannon Brown's brother, a little brown boy, number zero. I know you're talking about. Yeah, he's a problem.

Bruce Brown? Yeah. I like him. Oh, man. I like him. He's a mommy kid, University of Miami. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's a dog.

He's a dog. I like him. But there's a lot of kids, man. So, yeah. So who went in the chip? Let's, let's keep, before we got out of here, who went in the chip? Man, if everybody's, I wanted to see these two in the finals. If the Lakers healthy, Brooklyn healthy, that's what I want to see.

I don't know. We ain't let you all that easy. If everybody, everybody's healthy, is everybody's healthy? I'm going to go, shit, I hate to go. because Brian. I'm not to go to Brooklyn. Too much fire. Power, power.

Is it weird to see what's going down in Houston right now for you? Yeah, man. I feel for Melissa City, man. And I feel for Steve. And I've been knowing him for a long time, too. You know, I know his dad, you know, Paul. So, I mean, Steve's a good guy, man. I hate what's happened and what happened with the situation with James and

and Russ and all the things. And, you know, unfortunately, Woolis got hurt and people are trying to still leave from out of there. And, you know, you're talking about the victor's supposed to be leaving, going somewhere, Miami or somewhere else. So, I don't know, I just hate it for the organization and I hate it for Stephen and my main man, too, John Lucas. You know, so, yeah, yeah. So it's just weird to see Houston losing and going through the game. going through this year. Because y'all never been trash, trash, trash.

You guys have always throughout the years have been able to be some level of good and a factor. Just, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, they just got to chalk it up to this pandemic-ass year. And then we're going to put it up like that and check this year off and get ready for next year. That's what I hope they give, Stephen another.

They need to give them a pass on that shit, man. Yeah, they got to, yeah, man, because, yeah, that shit ain't his fault, man. Right. Yeah. pass because we don't really get them opportunities like that. And when it happens, it got to be perfect. Right, man.

You know, so. At least try to let him bring in some people that he want to bring in. And then, you know, I mean, because everybody that he thought he was going to be coached, they all left. You know what I mean? And that was unfair for him. So, I mean, I hope they do the right thing. I'm pretty much sure they would.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So before we get out of here, we have a little segment called Real One of the Week. and I think you are perfect for this segment, Byrne. It is a a segment that we do that shouts out as a person or an entity

or an organization that won a week in your eyes. I will go first. We can go on Roger and we can go with you. Mine, ruined it a week. There's none other than Don Staley. Yeah, yeah, Roger. Don Staley was doing some

was on some gangster shit. She called out the NCAA. Not just, not only did, She called out the NCAA. She did it through the school on a statement calling out the head of the NCAA for the weights. And the discrepancy in how women are treated versus men are treated in college basketball. That was some gangster shit. Don Staley is all my real one of the week.

Roger, go ahead, sir. You stole my shit. You stole my shit. You stole my shit. But I'm going to flip it on the fly, though. I'm going to flip it on the fly, and I'm going to go with two real ones in the week. All right. I'm going to go with Oral Roberts, 15-seat playing Arkansas.

What they've done with what's his name, Asimus, I guess he is, the leading score in the country out of San Antonio. And the other undersized big is real typical of like mid-major programs, like where you don't have the same size and same appeal as some of these major brands. but they're a real one for advancing as far as they have and having a shot at Arkansas and Syracuse who most people, or not most people, but a lot of people said wouldn't get in. And I knew to my own horn that that zone was going to get people fucking problems and it's giving them problems.

That zone is, yeah. Real ones, Earl Roberts and the Q's. All right, mine is when I had my man, my main man, Ron Arctez, on my IG live last Thursday. I mean, when Ron came out and he basically told everybody that a lot of people didn't know in that day that all that stuff happened out there in Detroit, the highest day was going. And he pretty much told everybody the story and that he was going through, you know, he had mental health issues and shit like that.

So that's mine. And love Ron our test for that, man. That's love. What's up? Real one. Real one, man. Thank you so much, Byrman. Friend of the show, bro.

Come back anytime, gee. This was amazing. bro yeah yeah we'll chat soon man that was real ones