The Ringer NBA Show - Villanova Wildcats in the NBA, Shuffling Playoff Seeds, and Predicting the Favorites | The Ringer NBA Show (Ep. 241)

Episode Date: April 3, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor project the futures of Villanova players who could leap to the NBA (1:09), discuss the various possibilities for playoff seeding (16:54), and debate the favorites in each conference (32:11). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Coca-Cola and Powerade. If you're into basketball, it's been our favorite time of the year, and it's going to keep on going on. NCAA March Madness just finished and with so many games going on now leading into this NBA playoff race, you're going to need to be ready. And to make sure your fridge isn't empty by halftime of the game, swing by Walmart before every game, and stock up on Coca-Cola, Coke Zero Sugar, and Powerade before the next one tips off. The NBA playoff race isn't just one game. It's going to be a whole week and a half now.

Make sure you're ready. Refresh every day by heading to Walmart to pick up Coca-Cola, Coke Zero Sugar, and Powerade. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Tuesday from The Ringer.com. Is Kevin O'Connor, A.K.A. Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Conflict. Kevin O. Verdo!

How are you doing this morning? A very rare night last night where we did not. not have any NBA games on, but we did have the NCAA National Championship game, of which I am sure you are keenly aware. Yes. That Villanova team was absolutely devastating throughout the NCAA tournament. They won their games by, I believe, over 17 points per game by the end. And, of course, won that game last night by that margin.

They were, I mean, I tweeted this out last night, much like we have seen NBA basketball evolve, I really believe that we're going to look back and that that Villanova team changed a lot about the way college basketball was played, especially three-pointers attempted, because when I went and pulled it last night, I want to say they were seventh in the country, and most everybody around them were smaller schools, and certainly not like Blue Blood schools by any means. And I bet you next year, much like we have seen in the NBA these last couple of years, you will see a massive uptick in threes attempted and college basketball is going to start looking more and more like what the NBA does right now. What do you think? Certainly a possibility.

Last night we saw Villanova take 27 of their 57 shots for three. So that's nearly half. And like the Houston Rockets this year in the NBA do take 51.1% of their shots from three like just over half. So Villanova certainly does run what it resembles an NBA offense, which made last night's game especially exciting to watch. And the guy who took advantage of that, Chris, Dante DiVincenzo. Unbelievable performance by him. Yeah, for your purposes, because I know you spend a lot of time evaluating players for an upcoming NBA draft. For your purposes, does them being able to, doesn't it feel like evaluation might be able to get a little bit easier? if college more mirrored what the NBA looks like.

Because that's been one of the real challenges, right? With so many of these cases, how does it translate to the next? I mean, I would obviously love for more of the things to be adopted. Obviously, the line is shorter, but especially defensive three seconds. If I could have anything, that would be the thing that I would take out of college basketball that would help with evaluation for the next level, I would think, in terms of driving lanes, in terms of guys not being able to just stand right in front of the stupid basket. But, you know, don't you think that if Villano, if more teams started looking like Villanova,

maybe the evaluation process gets a little bit easier, that struck me last night. Maybe, but also maybe not because the skill level just isn't close to on par as NBA basketball. I understand. But, you know, I think, you know, moving the three-point line out to the NBA distance would help, you know, adding defensive three second violations to make teams run less zone. That would help as well. But it's a shot clock as well. There's a long list of things, really.

Here's all I'm saying. I'm watching Villanova last night, and I think you can watch those guys. This is just me. I watch those guys, and I don't think it's hard to see how some of them fit within an NBA offense. And I think that is difficult with other guys that play maybe more an antiquated style. That's all. Totally feel you.

feel like I think you can look at a handful of guys on that roster and imagine them playing for an NBA team. I mean, not just McHale Bridges, the lottery picker, Jalen Brunson, the point guard, but like you said, with Dante DiVincenzo, or even a guy like Spellman at Ford, versatile player, the way they use him shooting threes, not just having him be a bruiser inside, even though he's like 250 pounds. Some offenses just as easily could turn him into just a bruising guy down low, but Villanova's like, no, we play a modern style. And they emphasize. that with the guys that they recruit and then how they develop their players and then how they use them on the court. Devin Genzel might have played his way into getting drafted.

Seriously. I wonder what he'll do because I didn't have exact rankings, but I had him lumped into the second round. Nobody really thought he would ever declare. I mean, he only scored 13 points per game this season. He's only a sophomore after redshirting for his freshman season, so he's a redshirt sophomore. He had a gigantic, unbelievable performance.

I don't know if it's enough for him to declare. I think he should go back for one more season. with an increased role. Brunson will be gone. Bridges will be gone. Yes. There'll be more opportunity for him. And then maybe in a weaker draft next year, we're talking about him as a first round pick. I'm just saying in the future.

No, he's not going to be, he wouldn't get drafted in the first round, therefore, getting a guaranteed contract. But he's majorly on the radar now. Yeah. I mean, he deserves an opportunity for sure with his shooting ability and his, his athleticism. And even his playmaking, too. He didn't really show it quite as much last night with three assists to four. turnovers, but over the course of the tournament the entire season, he has some playmaking skill as well. One more thing on that Villanova and the possible prospects. I was listening

to the podcast that you did with Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan, and you had mentioned Jalen Brunson during one of the bits. And you're talking about how he is, you know, a late first rounder, early second rounder. I know Charks just wrote an article about him for The Ringer. And here's what I'm saying. You remember last week when I challenged the whole idea of why the hell do we worship these where everybody says these players should go, right? And I'm not, I'm not busting you up here, but you said late first round, early second round, right? For him. Why? I look at it and I go, all right, we know that people have passed over these guys over time, whether it's guys that were these players of the year.

And I could just rattle them off. Draymond Green was player of the year in his conference. Jay Crowder was player of the year in his conference. Chandler Parsons was player of the year in his conference. Malcolm Brogden was player of the year in his conference. Frankie Mason was national player of the year. And like over and over again, we see these guys that are like in the end, we say, boy, they should have been taken ahead of a lot of guys that were taken ahead of them.

I'm not saying that you should be taking Jalen Brunson as a lottery pick. But I do think we look at it and we go, all right, every year over and over. Like usually those guys aren't overdrafted. And I'm not saying that it's a prerequisite or that it's a guarantee that if you are a player of the year in a conference or a big conference, that you're going to be good on the next level. But I just rattled off quite a few that by any estimation, if we redid the drafts would be taken much higher than they were. So why is Brunson any different? Why are we not learning our lesson and somebody's still going to wait until the late first, early second before he comes off the board possibly?

I mean, saying late first round, early second is really just a way for me to, I guess, capture, hey, here's where he might be drafted. So, like, if you're a fan of a team with the 24th pick, then you know, oh, maybe he's a guy that I might think about that range because, I mean, he's not going to go lottery. That would be stunning if he did. Even top 20, I think, would be a little bit of a surprise. because there are limitations. I think we saw a little bit of it last night

with his ability to create off the dribble. He's a really awesome college player. NBA-wise, I mean, what is he going to be? Will he be a, the comparisons we have for him in the 2018 NBA draft guide are Mark Jackson, I believe, Luke Ridenauer, I think Andre Miller might be the third one on there. I think he's going to be a really good pro. And he might be, as actually, as you said, Chris,

the type of guy who falls too low. But I don't think I'd draft him super high just because of the success of some pass. national players of the year. There's also been bad ones, Tyler Hansborough, who's like, not bad, but average players or a guy like Frank Mason last year, good quality NBA player went low, but not a guy you would take in the lottery. Trey Burke was a national player of the year, and it's taken him quite a while to really figure anything out in the NBA at all. But there's been a lot of great national players of the year that have had long, successful NBA careers. And I think

Brunson will be one of them. But I don't know if you'd take him very high in the draft, though. I just look at him, and this is the difference in philosophies on the draft, right? I guess I turn a little bit of a cynical eye towards all the comps, and everybody's going to be amazing, and I look at it. I'm with you. I'm with it. I just look at it from the other end, which is, you know, draft failures. It's because you draft guys that can't play. You draft guys that can't cut it in the NBA, and I am 100% positive that kid can cut it.

It's just a matter of how good he's going to be, right? But he's not going to suck. there's no way he's not right so he's not so and you know how many guys get drafted that suck right so whenever i do come out with my draft guide it is going to be i'm just i'm not even going to make it as a mock draft i'm not even got my draft guide is just going to be guys that i know are not going to suck and so if your team takes these guys be happy maybe their ceiling is a little bit lower but their floor is way higher than a lot of guys that are going to get drafted ahead of them. Well, that's what you have to weigh, right? So if you're drafting for just a general team,

you have to weigh, are you going to take a guy that you think projects in all likelihood of being an average to above average to good player? Are you going to take him over a guy that you think probably has great upside but also has a chance to suck? Like, are you going to take Jaynevin Brunson over Shea Gildes of Alexander? I don't think so. I think Shea Gildeser's Alexander being one year younger has displayed the traits of a player with significantly higher upside. Are you going to take Jalen Brunson over an 18-year-old kid like Anthony Simons? I don't think so because Simons has displayed the upside to be a far significant more player. Whereas then with Brunson, like last night, he kind of disappeared at times.

That's really the concern with him where it's like he just projects as more of a role player. He's going to have nice. He disappeared because he was on the damn bench with four foul. My point is that he projects more of a role player where he's going to have some of those nights. So it's like, yeah, those guys are going to fall because that's the strongest likelihood outcome for him, whereas some of the guys are going to go ahead of him. Yes, some of them are going to suck. But then some of them are going to end up just as good as Brunson. They're going to end up role players just like him too.

They're just younger. Or some of them are going to end up into being far superior. And if you take a role player ahead of some of those guys, you'll end up looking silly. I think when you get to that point in the draft, I mean, the odds are usually that you're not even going to get a guy with a long career. You know what I'm saying? In the late first round. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm talking from 20 to, if you get a good player from 20 to 30, somebody that's on the roster, past his rookie contract and you signed to another one, you hit as far as I'm concerned.

Sure. The thing is, this year's draft, like there's probably a, I don't want to say the word consensus, but it's kind of a consensus. but it's kind of a consensus. There's a top group of like 12, 13 guys, order them however way you want. It's different for everybody. But then after that, you have another lump, right? And the key is for teams in those range is to figure out

which of those next 20 or so guys have the best chance of being a steal. Jalen Brunson might be a steal in the sense that, like, yeah, you've got a good quality player who can have a long successful career in the NBA, but he might not be a guy who's just a big hit who changes your first. franchise. And the goal for a lot of team is to find that guy from that group. And I don't think it's Brunson. He's a good player, though. It's all about philosophy and what you're looking for.

If you need a backup point guard and you have no cap space, but you have like the 28th pick on the draft or the 34th pick, Jalen Brunson's your dude because you're drafting for need and he can fill a hole immediately and do it successfully. But if you're a team where it's like, we need everything or we already have everything and we need to

take a swing, then you're going to take that higher upside guy. I think it's so much situation-based. And I know he's being pegged as a lifelong backup, and maybe that will be his plight, but maybe he is Jemir Nelson, right? Like, Jamir Nelson was a four-year player, awesome St. Joe's team,

had all these accomplishments, and ended up being a very good NBA point guard for a long time. Yeah, but are you going to take Jemir Nelson over a swing at a potential guy who can change a franchise or a guy... Absolutely. That's how these guys get fired is because they don't take the good players.

Some of the guys with that risk also can become Jemir Nelson. too, though. You know what I mean? But I'm sure of the one. I'm sure that the one guy's going to be good. And if the guy was going to be such a damn star, why am I taking him at 23? If he's going to be such a star, why is he available to me at 23? Everybody's scouting evaluations are different. So if a guy's available at 23, your team, you might have that guy ranked eighth on your board. Like, he might be eighth on your board. And that's all that matters. It doesn't matter where anybody else has him. If you have him eighth on your board based on your evaluation,

where your scouts are saying, what you think in your own evaluation, that's all that matters. You know what I mean? Like, it doesn't matter if he's there because everybody's evaluations are different. Some guys fall on the draft. It just happens.

That's how steals are found. There ain't that many. The busts way out way. I'm an odds guy, right? So just give me the guy that can play. Yeah, the guy's fall. Gober went 27th. I had him ranked like 34th because I'm an idiot.

But I had never I mean there was somebody like Gobert I can't speak to that I never saw the guy play I know but that's almost my point is like There's with some of these younger guys Who fall are these these more mysterious quote unquote mysterious players

You know that come up from overseas And lack of experience like O'Bair in the drafts You look at his tape overseas He was somebody who was raw With his movements He looked clunky on the floor I honestly wondered how much of the appeal with him was just he's a big dude seven foot one seven foot nine

wingspan whereas he just didn't know how to play basketball but he fell into a situation with an incredible player development program he's learned how to play basketball at a high high level and he's displayed the work ethic i mean like guys fall for a myriad of reasons and then succeed for them too listen there's no mysteries to the kind of guys i like i mean we did this podcast last year and i told you, I like Jordan Bell and I like Sandarius Thornwell, and I think they're both better than where they're going to get drafted. And I feel pretty good about that as of today, honestly. Yeah, I feel you. He's got to be a good pro. He's got to be a good pro. All right, Kevin, we'll get right back to it. First, I want to tell everybody about Google Assistant with the Google Assistant.

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there are 13 games tonight. A couple are massive, one of which is Toronto at Cleveland. Because if we take a quick look at the Eastern Conference, what we find is the Raptors are two games up on Boston, right? There are two games up on Boston. So that is actually in the balance who could get the number one seed. And you have this Raptors' calves game. And how about this? You know what the Raptors next game is after the Cavs?

Boston tomorrow night. Boston, right? So, I mean, we could look up and in two days it would not be outlandish if in two days Boston holds on of the number one seed, or is at least tied. Crazy. Right. Record-wise. And they would have a tiebreaker if they were to win tomorrow, too. So they would be up top anyway. Now, you do have to play them at the Raptors, right, if you're Boston.

Second night of a back-to-back, though, for Toronto. It's also second-night of back-to-back because Boston has to play Milwaukee tonight. Yes, yes. Right? At Milwaukee. Yep. So you have a lot of these big, big games that are going on tonight. The one, because we won't go through all of them, but I will say one of them that is huge. Damn, I thought we were going to do a two-hour podcast. We're not. Golden State at Oklahoma City is tonight. That's a good one. And the reason, and this is the TNT game, and the reason that this one is even more important than it would typically be, is you have Golden State who they're locked into the two seat anyway, but they have been putting along here. And Oklahoma City is in a blood war to be able to try to get home court advantage. And they've only got four games left. Pretty much everybody's got five games. left, except for Oklahoma City.

Minnesota is the other team with four. So Minnesota and Oklahoma City. And listen to Oklahoma City's last four. Golden State at Houston, at Miami, and then the Grizzlies at home on the last game. Oh, boy. But there's one guaranteed win in there, right? Which is the Grizzly game.

Well, you never know. When you have Golden State at Houston at Miami. Maybe they'll play Marcus Hall in the fourth quarter. Stop. You want to bet? He probably won't even play in the game. He may not even trap. to the game.

You're not even travel to the game by the time you get to the last game of the season. It's like, oh, he missed his flight. I'm able to make it. The last game of the season is on Sunday. He may just stay in his bed from then on. It's like, we're not taking. He just missed his flight,

and he wasn't able to book a new one. Really? Couldn't make it. He's going to have a stomach virus. But anyway, Oklahoma City Golden State is big tonight. We might have, if these teams did hold on to their spots right now, it looks like Portland's pretty safe, honestly.

They got five games left and they're up three on the spurs. But if the spurs in Oklahoma City end up four and five, we're going to catch them in the first round. And to me, those are easily the two most dangerous for Houston. Wouldn't you say? Honestly, I'm just sitting here, Chris, looking at the standings and it's hard to figure out. It is impossible. We've talked about this so much.

And it's like, it's been shuffled a hundred times. And it's probably going to be again, a shuffled a hundred more times over the last week, too. Well, and nobody's got a particularly easy plight the rest of the way. And I will say this. So Minnesota is up a half game on the Pelicans, but they're up a game and a half on the Nuggets. It just so happens.

There are two Timberwolves Nuggets games left. I told you Minnesota's only got four games. Two of them are against the Nuggets. those become just monster games. Like Denver can honestly, like it's really going to come down to whether or not they beat Minnesota or not. And if they beat Minnesota twice, they're going to have a chance at getting in there.

And if they don't, they won't, right? And you even have San Antonio tonight. They're playing the Clippers. I mean, Isaac, don't you feel like your Clipper season's on the line tonight? Like they have to win at home against San Antonio to have a shot at this. To be honest, man, it feels like it's already over.

Oh, it's over. Yeah. I'm just looking at the 12, 13 lottery picks. Oh, wow. Because you look at Clippers' schedule right now. What do they have coming up? It is not pretty. Yeah, but the last three they could win.

Their Nuggets, Pelicans, Lakers, all at home. Sure. So they could go four and one? Yeah, but then someone still needs to fall. Yeah. Well, I'm saying the Pelicans, they got a game at the Warriors and at the Clippers and the Spurs to close out the season. So yeah, that matchup between New Orleans and the Clippers is going to be pretty big. I don't.

I don't know. Teodos is just out. If you lose tonight, you're done. If you lose to San Antonio. Yeah. I think you're done. But other than that, the Nuggets and the T-Wolves, and those are the two, and they play two games against each other. I wrote down everybody's schedule, Kevin.

I literally have no idea how this is all going to hash itself out. I really don't. I don't either, man. And they're all like half a game, a half away from each other. You look at Minnesota, they've lost five and five in their last. You look at New Orleans. They've lost four in a row, four and six in their last 10. Both of those teams, at least, you know, statistically, when you look at the remaining

strength of schedule, they have the easiest remaining schedule of those teams, but you look at their schedule and it's like, is it really easy? I mean, New Orleans faces Golden State, San Antonio, and the Clippers, but they have games against Phoenix and Memphis. You look at Minnesota, two games versus Denver, but they also face the Lakers who have been quite tough the last couple months. Granted, they haven't been the last two weeks or so. they've still been tough over a longer period of time.

So it's like every single one of these teams has a tough schedule. I think it's safe to say San Antonio and OKC and Utah are in. It's really that last group of four, I think. Who if you are Houston would you want? Who do you want to land in eight? Clippers or Denver. I mean, Denver because you can just shred Yokic on defense. Like he can't stop James Hardin or.

Chris Paul. Whereas the Clipper, actually, I mean, I think Denver's are better team than the Clippers. But what a great storyline, though. We would get the whole hidden door crap all brought up again, right? Isaac, Chris Paul having to play against the Clippers. No, but Blake's gone. So the beef is gone. It traveled to Detroit with him.

You think that the, you don't think that the rivalry's gone? Yeah, who else is left on that team that has beef with Chris Paul? DeAndre. DeAndre. DeAndre, you don't have beef with Chris Paul. DeAndre is just like. How about Doc? Oh, that's a good point. Austin.

Austin, I think there's still beef. There would still be more tension than if you get a Friggin' Houston Nuggets. If you're in Houston, though, you're licking your lips if you see Nicola Yokic defending the pick and roll. You're going to slice them apart. Yeah, that would be a rough thing. Whereas with Minnesota, you got to go against

a handful of talented players. You have Carl Anthony Towns who can step it up on defense if he wants to. New Orleans, obviously, Anthony Davis, and L.A., there's DeAndre Jordan, Utah, You have Rudy Gobert, Oklahoma City, Stephen Adams. A lot of good big defensive begs. But Denver, nobody's scared of Yokish. He stinks on defense.

So we have all of these things still to be hashed out. And I wrote down everybody's schedule in both the West and the East. And here was the one that stood out more than any because I was sitting back and I was like, well, hold the phone now. So the M-beat injury happened, right? Now, despite that, Philadelphia has still won 10 games in a row. If you look at the standings as of right now, they are in fourth, okay? And they're a half game back from Cleveland.

This is the 76ers remaining schedule. Brooklyn at Detroit, Cleveland, Dallas, at Atlanta, Milwaukee. That Cleveland game could seriously decide the three seed. Like it was the first time that I looked at this. I'm like, holy shit, the Sixers could get the three seed. They really can, Kevin, because the Cavs got the Raptors tonight. And then they play the Wizards. And then that at Philly could very well decide who the three-seat is.

I can't fathom that. Philly's got an easy schedule, too. I know. That's what I just said. I mean, it's really easy, too. They got five games left. They're going to be favored in four of those. And the line won't be big in the Sixers Cleveland game.

They got six left. Oh, six games. I'm sorry. In a Dallas, Brooklyn, Detroit. Right. They could win all four of those. I think you'd look at it right now and go, they're five and one. They're not going to be favored without Embed against Cleveland.

But let's say they won that game. I mean, 76 would be the three seed in the Eastern Conference. They got a shot at that. They really do. Imagine if they win the final six and they go into the playoffs with a 16 game winning streak. They went out of the season. 16 game winning streak, surge to the three seed, right? And Joelle and B, let's say Joe L&B comes back for game one of the first round.

Suddenly people are talking about, oh, can the Sixers make it to the NBA finals? That'll be the conversation we're talking about next Tuesday, if that's the case. Yeah, they wouldn't want to draw white side, though, because then you'd get the whole white side versus M. Are you really scared of Hassan White Side? I mean, here's what I'm going to say. Do I just not think as much of Hassan White's as others do? I just don't see. No, no, no, I'm talking about all that, you know, goffiness that goes on,

between the two. And here's the thing. I will tell you, I went through this, the orbital bone thing happening to your key player when C.J. McCollum trucked Conley and he broke his, broke his face. And I'm seeing all of the projections on, hey, you could come back this fast. He could come. I'm telling you, Kevin, like, you have to wear the mask, obviously. But Mike Conley had no business coming back when he did. And he had all the adrenaline in the world and helped the grizzlies get a win on the road at Golden State in game two of that series

a couple of years ago. And then he clearly was not himself the rest of the time in that series. And the other thing is that's a perimeter guy. When you're fighting for rebounds, put that face mask on. Like I don't, this is not like, oh, and the projections are great.

And he's going to be able to be, when the guy's got to, a damn broken face for God's sakes. And the swelling has to go down to the point. It's hard to get the swelling down to the point where a mask will fit correctly. And then these guys hate those masks, right? And it's covering what is still a tender, you know, a tender head because you're not fully healed by the time you're coming back, usually. And now you're going to be in the mix, you're going to be down in the post. I worry about that with Embed

I do, because I want so badly to see him be able to perform on the playoffs as Joel Embed and playing every night. But just knowing what that was like I was around Conley during that time, when that happened to Embed

I was like, oh God, no, because that injury is a bitch. And hard to come back from. It is. I just hope we get seeing him wear goggles like he did at Kansas when he had an eye injury there. It was a good look. Right. Well, here's the thing that sucks, and I hate to put a damper on this.

You know, and much like every year, things can be altered. Whatever eventually happens in these NBA playoffs can be altered by injury. But this year, you're talking about, I mean, Kyrie had a procedure done, right? And so we have no idea what he's going to be. We're now five games left in the season, Kevin, and we have no idea if we're going to see Jimmy Butler or Kawhi Leonard. And then Embed broke his eyeball. And then John Wall appears to be okay, you know, as he is as he is coming back. Fort on Thorough, I do think we're going to get Butler back. Yesterday, there's a report that he started practicing in five on fives. And it sounds like he will

come back before the end of the regular season or he'll at least be back for the playoffs. So that's really good news for the Minnesota Timberwolves. All right, Kevin, we'll get right back to it. First, I want to tell everybody about the Black Tucks. it's an easy way for guys to rent suits and tuxedos online. In fact, I just saw Tate and Titus wearing them at the final four. The Black Tux can help you out for any special event. Just place your order online and your suit arrives in 14 days before the event. Then wear it turn heads and send it back three days after your event.

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To get $20 off your purchase, visit the Blacktucks.com slash NBA. That's the blacktucks.com slash NBA for $20 off your purchase. The Black Tucks, Premium Rental suits, and Tuxedos delivered. And then we have, obviously, the Curry thing hanging out there. His timetable was three weeks from March 24th, but he had a Grade 2 MCL sprain, right? And I saw where Kevin Pelton added this note. He said, players have not shot as well from three-point range after returning from Grade 2 MCL sprains as expected. Curry was, in fact, less accurate on threes in the 2016 playoffs, shooting 40 percent.

after compared to 45% during the regular season, but the larger issue was inside the arc. He shot 57% on twos during the regular season and just 49% during the playoffs. And he says, obviously every player, every injury is unique, but that was at least what we went through with Curry

last time around. For sure. And, you know, that was a topic in my article last week on Curry, like the ripple effects for the injury. And it's the type of thing where, yes, like as Kevin Pelton put in his article,

You know, his three-point shooting numbers were down a little bit, but it was the at-rim stuff that really hurt. I mean, I think one of the reasons why is because when he returned in the 2016 finals that year, a little bit of his quickness was gone, that burst that makes him so exceptional at creating his shot off the dribble. And if that's not there, that'll be concerning. But the thing is, it's not just the knee injury either. He's sprained his ankle like a thousand times this season. So there's always a risk for re-injury as well where it's like, yeah, you might get a. back, but he also needs to stay on the floor. And there's no guarantee for that to happen when he himself has said his ankles aren't going to get 100% until the offseason when he has a long

period of rest. So he said that before he had, he's spraying the MCL. It's the type of thing where there's multiple concerns with Stefan Curry. Well, and the concern is so great that one of the online sports books yesterday, Bavada put out odds. And for the first time in, God, I don't know, years. the rockets were right there with the Warriors at the top of the odds. Like if you wanted to go and you wanted to bet it, for the first time, you would be able to bet it and the odds on favorite was not Golden State. And usually they've been the favorite by a mile. And in fact, they've got the same odds as the rockets right now. If you were setting odds, do you look at it right now and say the Warriors still have to be the favorite or do you look at it now and think the rockets should.

be. Houston is, in my opinion, and it's simply because of the health, right? I think with Steph, there's that big question hanging over them. Houston is fantastic on both ends of the floor. And Golden State's best player is out, and we don't know when he'll be back. In the East? In the East? Favorite there?

What do you think? It's Cleveland. LeBron. You do. Because they have LeBron James. Just until somebody beats him, until somebody beats him, you cannot. I know they are the favorite. I'm asking you, do you think they should be the favorite?

Yes. And that was what I wrote about yesterday. where it's the type of thing where LeBron is the favorite because he's LeBron. The Cavalier is the favorite because they have LeBron James. Every other team is questions. You just hit on it earlier. Boston, Kyrie's out.

Philly, Joel, Embed's out. Toronto, their defense has been really, really shaky the last three-ish weeks. Indiana, they're really, really good, and they've played Cleveland really tough this year. And I think they could make it a tougher series than people think, but they need Oladipa to be unbelievable, too, I think really to beat Cleveland and LeBron.

The Wizards, John Wall just came back. Will he get back to the same level? Will he be, will he incorporate himself into their offense? We'll see. Miami, I don't, I don't view them as a team that could really beat Cleveland over a seven-game series, but they could, again, play them tough. I think they would need a lot of luck to go on their way. And then Milwaukee, the defense just isn't good enough.

And I think Janus is maybe a year or two away from being able to take down LeBron. This will be a little bit of a preview, though, tonight because we do get Toronto at Cleveland, right? You know that with this amount of time left in the, this is going to play out, maybe not necessarily like a playoff game, but as close as we can get to in the regular season, because both of these teams will want to make some level of a lasting impression on the other, right? Because we're going to get to see them for the last time Toronto on the road at Cleveland tonight are playing each other. Same goes with Golden State to Oklahoma City. And I know Golden State's cobbled right now, but you know Oklahoma City is going to attempt to make a statement against

them tonight. I mean, these games, we might have had an off night last night, but these games tonight are loaded with the ability to overreact. Right? Like, we're going to be, we're going to watch these, and it's going to take everything we can, not to overreact of what we see. Yeah, I'm hoping my internet and modem gets fixed so I can actually watch these games tonight. But what? Yeah. Yeah, right now, right now, no TV again. But yeah, tonight's game, Toronto, Cleveland, especially with the way the last one went, Chris, right? Yes. With Toronto putting 79 points on Cleveland in the first half, but then Cleveland just utterly dominating in the second half,

storming back, winning that game 132 to 129. I wonder if we'll get another high-scoring affair, or if Toronto, after a little day off or a couple days off, they fixed their defense and really get back into the rhythm that they were in earlier in the season. because they've been, I don't want to say they've been torched, but they've been really, really shaky on that end of the floor the last couple of weeks. And it's concerning for me heading into the playoffs. It's just a bad time.

It's a really bad timing. I wonder if they peeked too soon. Okay. One of the teams, right, that is in there that keeps getting skipped over, and I find it super interesting because I know that in between Bill and yourself, right, you guys are very keenly aware of the Celtics levels of success or failure throughout the season. You're keeping up with them because that's the hometown team. That being said, they have won six games in a row.

They still have a chance at the number one seed. We don't know what level of Kyrie Irving comes back, but it does feel like everybody has thrown dirt on them. Have you? No, but they need Kyrie back. I mean, they need their end game go-to fourth quarter scoring bucket getter. They need Kyrie. What they're doing in the playoffs is, what they're doing right now in the regular season is sweet.

It's really nice to watch. You know, seeing a guy like Shemi-Ojalee play a good 20 minutes per game, seeing Terry Rozier get buckets over 35 minutes. That's really nice. But they need Kyrie Irving to elevate in the playoffs. What's been most amazing to watch is just the progress of Jason Tatum. It's remarkable.

Earlier in the season, obviously, he's putting up numbers. And then he kind of hit the wall towards the middle of the season. in January, but last couple weeks with Kyrie Irving out, they've really tailored the offense a lot more towards him putting him in more pick and rolls and more dribble handoff actions, and he is just excelling at a high level.

And if there's any reason for optimism for the Celtics in the playoffs, it's the fact that they don't just have one go-to-scorer in Kyrie Irving. They would have two with Kyrie Irving and Jason Tatum. He's really elevated to his play in recent weeks. It's been amazing to watch him.

Could you foresee a circumstance where Jason Tatum is the best player on a championship caliber team. Yeah. You could. Yep. You think he is going to be that level of a great player. Yeah. Love them in the draft last year.

Had him second right behind Markle Fultz. Do you think Jason Tatum can have a better career than Carmelo Anthony? Yeah. I don't know if that's the highest bar. Hold on. Don't just, don't just slough that off. Right. Yeah, of course you can.

I mean, Carmelo's like a damn ten-time all-star. I know he is. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. Comrello is a great player, a Hall of Famer, because of his numbers. But the thing is, is he's always been a low-impact playmaker, low-impact defender.

Two important key categories when it comes to winning basketball. Oh, man. I feel like you kind of slander in it. And we don't know what level Jason Tatum will reach. It might be a little early on Tatum, right? It might be a little early to decide that, no? What do you mean? The guy's going to be a Hall of Famer.

I'm not saying he'll be a Hall of Fame. favor. Well, you just said he could be better Carmelo-Aidth and he, Cormelow-Aidth. I don't know if he will be better, but he could be better. That was the question.

Will he be better? I don't know. I can't predict the future, but the ingredients are there for him to have a highly successful career over an extended period of time. He's a fantastic go-to-scorer.

At 19 years old, actually going back to last year, Duke, his fluidity on the floor is really unusual for a teenager. And now at 20, he's only gotten better. I think if you're projecting ahead, there's certainly a chance that he could have a remarkable career.

It doesn't mean he will. He might plateau and never get better than what he is in a year or two. He might top out at like a 20 point per game guy, but he might not either. I'm glad you brought up that you cannot predict the future because it is the greatest difference between you and I. I can. It's true. Bruno Damos. Bruno Damos says, who's going to win the finals, Chris?

The NBA finals? Yeah. What pick are the Grizzlies going to have? Who are they going to pick? They will have the number two pick and they will take Marvin Bagley. Oh, I thought you were going to say DeAndreate. Oh, good grief.

You don't predict your own personal nightmares. Don't put that evil on me, Ricky Bobby. Don't put that evil on me. Here's the thing. If I had to pick right now, honestly, all grouping aside, I would still pick the Warriors. Okay, that's fair. And I would bank on Steph being able to come back.

because the last time we saw, you remember banged up Steph, we do need to keep this in mind. Still pretty awesome. No, Kevin Durant wasn't on the team. Yeah, yeah. Good point. You know what I mean?

So it was actually punitive that he was hurt. And that's the funny thing. It's like, it's like we talk about like in my article I wrote about it, you mentioned it with Kevin Pelton's stats. Like Steph shot 41% after coming back from his knee injury.

It's like, really? Is that a bad thing? he's still pretty amazing even at 80% or whatever that's what we need to remember they did sign Kevin Durant to play on their team since we have seen that and honestly before they had Kevin Durant they would have won that title of Draymond doesn't kick LeBron in the dick no kidding you know so I mean it's not like oh god Steph Curry went down oh we're like you have the second best player in the world who are we going to turn to yeah right like at that point it was like, oh, hope we can get more

than what we expected out of Sean Livingston. Now they got Quinn Cook. They got Quinn Cook now. He's getting buckets, dude. He's been doing well. By the way, another four-year college player that people passed on. Yeah, sure.

But are you never mind. He's down you, pretty good. Yeah, but are you going to draft Quinn Cook? Terry Rozier, too. He was in the 2015 drafts. Are you going to are you going to draft Quinn Cook and wait? three years for him to turn into an NBA player. He's 25.

Some of these guys, it takes a while. Come on, man. He's a career backup. Where was he taken? He was undrafted, as he should have been. He's undrafted. So was Fred Van Vlead. You didn't want Fred Van Vleet on their team.

There's been a lot of good undrafted players. And Vland Villeet probably should have been drafted. Hey, hold on now. I just pulled up the top, uh, the 2015 second round. I know what you're going to do. I know. There's 27 of these guys. even heard of him. I know. It's one he's having of them. Oh, here's for Sean Holmes.

This is me really nerding out, but the reason why some of these guys get drafted is because it's a drafting stash. They don't have a roster spot. And so they take a guy that they can stash in the G League or somewhere overseas and just hold his rights, whereas sometimes, and I'm not saying this is the case with Quinn Cook, but it might have been because it is for some players where their agent or their circle insists that they sign a contract and that they're on their NBA roster. And so some of those guys that would have gotten drafted end up going undrafted because they want, in a sense, that they want to have the freedom of choosing where to go. Just let me tell you, on that 2015 draft, since you brought it up, this is the last thing.

Okay. You look at the names I've heard of. Montrez-Harrell Jr., Rishon Holmes, Sr., Josh Richardson, Sr., Pat Cahotton, Senior, Pat Cahotton, Senior. like every frigging guy that got drafted in a Norman Powell senior. Every single guy was these old guys that Kevin O'Connor shits on. What are you talking about? I like Pat Connton. I had Josh Richardson ranked like 22nd.

I missed on a lot of dudes. I'm just busting your job. I nailed it with Josh Richardson, baby. Actually, I don't know. He was a 20 second. But he was one of my sleepers. He was one of my sleepers. He was one of my sleepers. I missed on Anthony Brown.

Anthony Brown, I had him ranked like 25. I'm blaming Tibbs because Anthony Brown is the two-way guy on the Minnesota Timberwolves, and he hasn't gotten a minute even though he's killing it in the G-League. So I'm going to blame Tibbs for just not playing Anthony after he gets an opportunity. He just got a bad, he was just in a bad spot, right? It's just going to blame him for all life's problems. You know what? Tim's has got a lot of stuff to worry about because he's got those last two games.

It is actually not until Thursday night. So it'll be Thursday at Denver Thursday night. Who would have ever guessed that Minnesota and Denver on Thursday night? God, I wish Denver still – I mean, listen, I wish Minnesota still at Jimmy Butler and I wish Denver still had Gary Harris. We'll see what happens at Denver on Thursday. But this is a schedule, bitch. They play at Denver Thursday night.

And then they fly and they got to go play the Lakers on. Friday. I get that the Lakers is not the worst thing, but the whole Denver travel thing is hard anyway. Right? Because you're, you got the time change, you got the altitude change, and then you're playing a back to back and you're going to L.A.

Most of the guys all go out the second they get off the plane in L.A. Maybe Tibbs will be able to convince them not to. So now, listen, here's what we know that that Thursday night Denver game matters so much that they will have just played 52 minutes each in high altitude.

And then they had to turn around and play the next night in Los Angeles. Yeah, it's going to be interesting. At least they have that Memphis game. At least they have that going for them. What do you mean? The Grizzlies own the Timberwolves. It's the only game on the road they won the whole damn year. Four in a row, five of six against the Timberwolves.

You can talk about any other team, but don't you talk to me about the Timberwolves. The Grizzlies own them. Memphis has five remaining games. games at New Orleans, Sacramento, Detroit, at Minnesota, at Oklahoma City, besides the Sacramento and Detroit games, are they going to win any of those three games against New Orleans, Minnesota, or OKC? Are they going to pull any of those out? Are they going to disappoint a fan base, Chris? No, they're going to lose all three. If they win, they'll disappoint their own. So no. So no. They're worried with their own fan base at this point. I mean, once you're in the

bucket, you're in the bucket, right? Yeah, I mean, the best is going to, hey, the best is going to be, you may see, you know, on Friday night, flip on the Grizzly Sacramento, it's Dave Yeager, who's the former coach of the Grizzlies, right? You know he'd love to screw it over. They're in the lottery mix, too. You may see in the fourth quarter of that game, every player sitting on the ground, like just sitting on the ground and refusing to score. I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen. Maybe Zibo and his second return to Memphis will try to go for 40 points or something. I'm excited for the tank race. I'm as excited for the tank race as I am for the NBA playoff race. Well, you don't have to go watch it in person every night. I don't know, man.

You wouldn't be as excited if you did. It's funer to read the box score than sit in the arena. Trust me. I love hope, though. And sometimes it's fun to root for your team to lose if it's all in the means of building towards winning. You know what I mean? Like,

there's a little bit of fun in that when the games are close and you're rooting for the team to lose. No. It's a good time. I'm not wired that way. Me and Jim Moore. I'm going to call up Jim Moore

and we're going to bitch about millennials. Well, it was Herm Edwards? Was it Herman Edwards who says you play to win the game? That was her Merrim Edwards, right? Play to win the game. Yeah.

You play to win the game. Yeah, but you also can play to win the long game too. And that's by having a higher draft pick and increasing your odds of drafting a superstar, Chris. like DeAndre Aiton. You and you and you and GM McDunner from Phoenix

can go sit around and have a powwow about how fun that is. It's a blast. Yeah, you know what? Look at Phoenix this year. I love what they're doing. They've lost 15 in a row just like they should be.

They have tons of cap space, tons of assets and draft picks. They have a superstar and Devin Booker and they have an opportunity to draft another one this year. They can be looking pretty damn good in a couple of seasons. with McDonough be the jam at that time

well we'll see if Robert Sarver's that patient but the team could be pretty good well I'll wait for it I'll be there waiting for when it comes around who knows Chris maybe Memphis and Phoenix will both draft their franchise changing players and this year's draft and you guys will be meeting in the Western Carman's finals in four years

you never know you never know franchise change you never know though Chris I don't think these guys are franchise changing this year but that could be well maybe I can grow six, eight. Maybe I could. Maybe. You never know. With modern science. You never know. Something could come out tomorrow.

I'll talk to you next week. Thanks, Kevin. Have a good one, Chris. It's going to do it for another Ringer MBA show. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes. And we will talk to you next week.