The Ringer NBA Show - Vince Carter and Antawn Jamison on Their Many Years in the League, Black Fatherhood, and Player Activism | The Bakari Sellers Podcast

Episode Date: July 8, 2020

Bakari is joined by former NBA players Vince Carter and Antawn Jamison to talk about their respective NBA careers (8:15), Black fatherhood (22:29), Vince’s recent retirement (35:06), and player activism (46:07). This podcast ran originally as an episode of 'The Bakari Sellers Podcast.' Subscribe on Spotify or wherever you hear podcasts. Host: Bakari Sellers Guests: Vince Carter and Antawn Jamison Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, Ringer NBA show listeners. This is Bobby, the producer of The Mismatch. We have a bonus episode for you today from the Bacari Sellers podcast where he talked to Vince Carter and Anton Jameson on their careers in the league, Black fatherhood, player activism, and Vince Carter's retirement. So we thought that you would enjoy this. You can go subscribe to the Bacari Sellers podcast on Spotify or wherever you hear podcasts. And the mismatch will be back on Friday. I want to welcome everybody to another episode, the third episode of the Bukari Sellers podcast. This is going to be a joy of pleasure because we have two amazing individuals. I know them extremely well, not just for what they do on the court, but I know them off the court as well. We got Vince Carter and Antoine Jameson joining us today. I guess what do you say to people who just retired? Is it condolences? Congratulations.

I mean, what you say? Happy retirement, man. What's going on? Go, that's what it is. Happy retirement. That'll work. That'll work. I am, most people know that you all

are teammates in North Carolina. And some people know, that seems like a long time ago. And some people know. No, it is a long time ago. That y'all were traded for each other. Did y'all know y'all were going to be traded for each other? He did.

Yeah. I didn't know it first. So when I got drafted, I remember my agent telling me he was like, I don't think you're going to be going to Toronto. I think it's a trade. that's about to happen. So I'm like, cool.

And I remember I tell Vince's story all the time. I'm getting up. I kind of knew I'm getting traded. And you know, mom and dad's like, hold on. Canada, we didn't say anything about going on. Like, what's going on? I'm just like, you know, calm down with you. I just give me a hug.

And I remember going up to shake David Stern's hand. And he was like, you know, it is a trade. You did get traded. And I think it might be for your buddy. And I kind of knew what was going on. So I'm doing all the interviews and stuff like that. and lo and behold, you know, it's for Vince. So it's kind of ironic meeting each other, you know,

when we, you know, in high school as a junior and a senior, and then all of a sudden to go through the transformation we did, getting to Carolina, learning about life and basketball. And now as we took that next stage as far as fulfilling our dreams, getting traded for one another. So it's always that, you know, that togetherness being teammates and not only friends, but also getting traded. He didn't even call you or text you and tell you that you were getting traded for him, did he vans. That man knew and didn't even tell you.

Yeah, I couldn't. No, it was literally, it was during the draft. He knew doing the draft, so as he's going up, he's sitting there. So I remember, like, just like, I remember he got drafted by Toronto. And I remember looking at him like, bro, you didn't work out for them. Yeah. Right, you know what I'm saying? So I'm like, all right, this is weird.

And then I get drafted by Golden State. So I was like, okay, you know, and I remember walking, you know, it's the story that I tell everybody. They laugh. I remember walking up the steps and looking to the right, Tuan is trying to tell me, we're about to get traded for each other. I'm like, what? What are you saying?

What? I couldn't, you know, it's like, walk up the steps or pay attention. I was like, let me walk up these steps so I don't fall down and, you know, look stupid in front of everyone. And, you know, obviously it's a dream. come true to get drafted, hear your name called in the lottery and take a picture. So I'm worried about that. But still in the back of my mind trying to figure out what is he saying.

What did he just say to me? I'm like, all right, cool. And then once again, David Stern whispers to me. He's like, yeah, there's about to be a trade. I was like, dang, somebody getting traded already is what I said. I literally said that. And he announces Antoine. And my, oh, man, that's what he was saying.

So y'all are close. Y'all were in the same year coming out of college, coming out of high school. Talk to me about your friendship now and what it's like just watching each other mature. And even more importantly, I mean, we'll get into some heavy stuff. But like right now you're raising black children in this America. It's a little different than what we ever imagine. You see athletes speaking up. You have George Floyd, Brianna Taylor, Ahmad Albury.

You have all of these things that are going. on right now. Talk to us about your friendship and how you guys have helped each other get this far into this point. Well, I'm going to start here. I remember junior year when he told me, I don't know, what did we meet? I don't even know where this was, but I remember meeting him for the first time and he was, I was, oh, it had to be in South Carolina. Yeah, Murdo, yeah, Murdo Beach because I was a beach ball classic because everybody knows the best, the best basketball players come out of South Carolina. Continue. Never heard that before. So, but can we back up real quick?

I mean, you got Raymond Felton, you got Ray Allen, you got Kevin Garnett, you got Jermaine O'Neill, you got Xavier McDaniel. I mean, that five right there is competing against anybody anywhere. But how do you get the best ever, though? I mean, I don't, I don't judge. You go into somebody. Okay, let's move on. Let's move on. Because I saw the judgment in both of you.

all's faces. We'll just continue. I mean, you had some pretty good names on him. He had that on his notes for sure. Hey, absolutely. He said, oh, I'm using this. Yeah, I had that ready. I was throwing out KG all top. So anyway, so, so we were talking about y'all coming up together. And so what most, yep, and you dug into something because you were part of the same class to have who I thought was one of the best college basketball players of all time. Ron Mercer was in your class. Right. Went to Antoine. And you were like one of one, two, three in that class. And that's, and you guys met at the beach ball during that time. Correct.

And I was taking my visit right after beach ball. And like I said, Chuan was top three coming up. I mean, I was, I don't even know where. I couldn't even tell you where I was ranked in freshman sophomore year or stuff like that. And I kind of hit the Nike circuit. Actually, five-star circuit is kind of when I kind of got on. And Coach Smith was out there, obviously watching KG and some guys. And, you know, he started recruiting me there.

So, and that's when I took my visit, talked to Twan. You know, like Twan said, I started to rise up in the rankings and, you know, hit the scene. Tuan, what, tell me this. Explain to me, because down here we refer to it as the other Carolina, whatever y'all call it. But what is the Carolina? Whoa. What? Oh, my gosh.

That's funny. What is the Carolina way? I mean, you two played for, you play for the greatest college basketball coach of all time. All right? There's no question about that. and the Carolina Way is something that's ingrained in all of you all. Tell people who do not know what that feels like.

What is the Carolina Way? And what made Dean Smith, Dean Smith? The Carolina Way to me is, and Vince can attested us, we had the 100 years of Carolina. And we had players from the 50s to 60s, the 70s, the 80s, the 90s on 4th, even with Coach Williams

and the players that have come, after Coach Smith. Every player knows what it was like to be. At Carolina practice, every coach knows, I mean, every player knew what it was like to receive that phone call. He treated everyone the same. It doesn't make a difference if it was Michael Jordan or Corey Brown, which was our manager.

Everyone was treated the same. The thought of the day, Vince, the pre-game meals. I mean, I can. recall after I got drafted and we used guys like Rick Fox and Sam Perkins they used to come in the summertime, hey hello, but

once I got drafted and start playing an NBA, I mean guys automatically reached out Antoine if you need anything like gotcha, here's my number. All the coaches, Coach Carl, Larry Brown, all those guys. The Carolina Way is something that is from one man.

I mean, you look at what Coach William is doing now, He learned everything from Coach Smith. Of course, he's kind of put his own coaching twist to it. But we have all learned the values of not only basketball, but the values of just life. Yeah. I can recall, Coach Smith, every player that got married,

the first time he was at the wedding and so forth. And after we left, I mean, he'll tell you, wait a take, Ben. I'll come to your first wedding, but after that. I'm there. Hey, that's a true. That's a true statement. Yeah, he's talking to all the first way here. And we all laughed.

Oh, okay. I know what he's talking about. Yeah, yeah. I got it. It makes sense. Everything makes sense now. It makes sense. Yeah, exactly.

He's a legend for that. You know, what he instilled with us about just life and family. To me, that's the Carolina way. You know, we learned it from one of the greatest, not only, I don't even look at him as a coach. I look at him as a human being and a father figure. And it's funny now, Bacari, because what I try to instill into my kids now, I have five of them, you know, Kai, of course, all the cousins and stuff, a lot of the things I learned that freshman year, the same, the way I view life is all

because we all have strong parents, grandparents, who we learn a lot from as well. But a lot of the things that I learned from Coach. Smith still to this day I use in my everyday life. And to me, that's the Carolina way he taught us so much. I can recall when he recruited me, he was, he told my parents, I can't promise you that he would make it to the NBA or he would become this basketball phenome, but I can't promise you he's going to leave his university a better man than what he did when he came into the university.

And also he's going to get an education. And those are the values that. If my sons are going to a university or they're going to a coach, I want to hear the coach say those these things. Right. Still to this day, I'm using those same scenes. And I want to tie it into, we hear the word brotherhood thrown around. And I was my next question.

So yeah, take that because you hear the brotherhood. You hear it thrown around. And, I mean, I guess there's different levels to it. And, you know, obviously, I think the meaning, the definition, if you would, would changes with the guard and the time. But that, it meant the brotherhood meant to it. It was like an unwritten rule. It wasn't something like, oh, this is what we're going to do and this is what you had to do.

It was understood. You learned that by Roach. Once you walked in and you started to learn the lay of the land and you learn to look out for your brother. You learn to look out for, I mean, we had, like you said, we had guys coming back making sure we were good. Whatever that meant. I remember riding around, y'all going to laugh at us here. I remember riding around Rashid around Chapel Hill. You know, and just, I know, I'm trying to figure out what I'm trying to read between the lines.

That, you know, they're about, they're about 100 people who just laughed at that and everybody don't get that. It's only 100. It's only 100. It's no, I mean, no real lines to read. I'm saying, but it was just like, hey, man, you good, you know. And he just, just breaking it down, obviously from his experience, his two-year experience, just making sure we're good, just whatever we needed, like he said.

and Coach Smith instilled that and that was instilled and talked to Shee when he got there from the guys before him. And like I said, like Twan said, some of the things that he's taught us, some of the sayings, the values, I started to understand the reason for the word of the day because I remember, I remember sometimes we sit in the locker room and you see this little, yeah, you're studying this like, what we're studying this thing for, man? Like, it just, you started understanding the values of it. And it started opening our eyes and ears to life itself and the importance of an education and not just being one dimensional. And that was something my mom always talked about. But that's why she was so impressed when Coach Smith walked into our house because of the exact same thing.

Antoine said, he's like, he's a great athlete, but I can't guarantee you that I know people. I'll try my best. But he's going to leave this university a better person, a better man with an education. So that's why my education was so important, even during one of the biggest games of my career. It was education first. I was taught to be a student athlete, not an athlete student. The thing to stand out too, guys, is, and Vince, you can attest to this. Anytime we had a game, I can recall guys like Doc Rivers or like Paul Pierce and those guys, like, oh, the little Carolina guys again.

I mean, those guys knew that it wasn't for show or we was just saying this. And that's the exact word you hear. The goodness that we had and how much we really cared for one another and how much we went out of our weight. And those are the things that you knew was something special because others saw it as well. They saw the way we interact with each other. They saw the way we cared about one another

and always try to lift each other up. Let me ask a question now. Wait, even with the generational gap, that was a such thing. Because it was like he said, Sam Perkins is coming up to a, us and, you know, the gap, and we're doing the same for guys are coming in. So it was understood. I supposed to look out for the young guys because of, you know. And y'all are old heads now. Y'all are the old heads now, right? Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you a specific. You're about to become

an old head real soon. So don't remind me, man. Don't remind me, man. One of the things that we all have in common is not just the fact that I'm a two-time lifetime fitness all-star MVP, right? I am a perennial law star. And MVP. No, two-time MVP, perennial all-star. Oh, my. Yeah. I mean, I'm, and Twan, no, he's seeing me at the gym. I'm buckets. I'm like Vinny Johnson in his prime.

When I walk on, it's different. But one of the things that we all have in common, though, is that we're fathers. I want, as you guys are, I mean, it's the most difficult thing I've ever tried to, you know, navigate in my life. I mean, talk to me about what it is and how you guys communicate, even throughout this brotherhood of North Carolina, what it means to be a black father. If I may start, I want to start by saying you go through, just think of the toughest game you ever played. I'm talking to you, McCart. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we got some boys at Lifetime that the truth.

So yeah, I get what you're saying. Right. Yeah, yeah. So just thinking your tougher game and decisions you have to make on the spot and how you felt like, man, I found a way. I find myself thinking sometimes like I'm now in the toughest situation of my life as far as decision making for myself. as a black man and decision making for my kids, son and daughter, because it's not discriminating anymore. You know what I'm saying? So it's like I have, I don't have a fear, but I have a concern, even when I walk down to check my mailbox. I make sure I have my phone. I make sure I have my

ID. And it's an uncomfortable feeling. And it's that question. I had a comment, I have a, excuse me, I had a conversation with my daughter. We were in CVS one day. And because of all of the quote unquote caring stuff going on, it's made me a little paranoid and concern. So I told Kai, I was like, hey, wherever in the situation, you make sure, you know, we handle this the right way. And it's unfortunate now that we have to say, you make sure you film it.

Exactly. You make sure you film it. And just hearing myself say that, it's just so awkward, but you make sure you film it. And then we'll handle the situation accordingly. And she kind of laughed at first. And I was like, no, seriously. She's like, no, I know, I know. And it's those type of conversations that we've talked.

And, you know, and I know my younger kids, when we start to get into these situations and talk, you know, we talked briefly about one of the best decisions I've made as a father is if I'm ever in the area close to a situation, a site like where Ray Shard Brooks, Rayshard Brooke was murdered, I want to take my kids there and just be there, be on the scene, witness it at its worst. And we got the chance to do that. And it made me feel great because for her to see the history and see what's changing her generation and the world right now. Like that building and, you know, George Floyd and like the laundry list of young black people are being murdered for just senselessly. And it's unfortunate. And it's one thing.

Yes, we're using our voice. And we want to use our voice for the young people out there. But it's like, how do you begin that conversation? for your kids and get them started. And I know, Twan, you have older, a few older kids as well. So I can, I can't imagine your conversation for the older kids. I mean, you can have the basics for our younger kids and our 15-year-old, if you would. But now we're talking about our college kids now who are driving and can go as they please

anywhere they want. That's like a whole other situation. And it's not us that's out there like, okay, if it's me, I'm going to handle it like this. It's the worries now of our older kid. That anxiety. Twan, what do you think? I mean, because, you know, your father and mother, I mean, they are two of the dopest individuals I've ever met in my life.

I mean, they are, you know, honest. Your father ain't never lot of me about nothing a day before in his life. He's as honest as the day as long. And I think that from knowing both of you guys, the biggest compliment I can give you is not having all those 50-point games in Golden State, Tuan, is not. not, you know, being amazing and having a year that's surreal and changing, you changed an entire country's perspective of basketball events. But the biggest compliment I can get both of you guys is the way that you're raising children. And that is, that's what it is. So,

Twan, so talk to me about what that means to be a black father today. We all, like I said, we all are fathers. And the most important thing we preach to our kids is education. You know, every household from the three of us, everybody's required to, like, you know, get close to straight A's, go to college, and live your life. The thing that has really struck on the court, I recall the first time I got pulled over by the cops and I got guns drawn on me.

It was a junior year in high school, and I remember having that conversation with my dad. And after the fact, my dad was kind of taken back and he was like, this was one of the reason why we moved from Louisiana to North Carolina to Charlotte. It's because it was to better suit our kids and give them every opportunity impossible. So he literally said things that I felt you as a father because I felt like something like this would never have happened to you. And I recall, especially with my kids, you know, it's strange to like sit in the car with your kids and sit there.

and explain to them, if you get pulled over, blow it all your windows down, turn the music down, turn the light, put your hands on the steering wheel, to my kids, to my boys that was like eight and 12, it's like, those are the things that you have to do. And the one thing that I love to death, I have a

daughter, she's going to be a rising junior in college. And Baccarra, this generation is, I mean, they are out there on the forefront, they are speaking their mind, they are making a difference. And I just like to sit down, and talk to her.

I just want to, like, pick her brain because she is so much courageous than I am. She speaks her mind. Because sometimes when we was coming up, a lot of things was uncomfortable with us as far as talking to the media about certain situation and racism and now is much needed.

But to see where this generation is, and all of a certain, Vince, you can attest to this, Kai and Catherine are talking about getting a driving license. Yeah. And even though they are black women, strong black women, I can recall when I used to come back home from college, and I used to stay out free, whatever. And I used to always come home,

and my dad used to be like, you know, sleep on the couch. And I'm like, dude, you got all these rooms in here, what you sleep on the couch for? And I never understood it until now. You know, my daughter leaves the house, I can't sleep until I notice she's sound and in her bed. And those are the things that, I got one that's driving and in college.

I got four more that I have to worry about. And I can't imagine what we put them through and now going forward. The most important thing to me is to continue to educate myself and most importantly to have those difficult conversations with a 10-year-old who don't quite know why, you know, this man was on his neck for eight minutes and 40-some seconds. Like, you have to have those tough conversations.

conversations at early age. And that's pretty much where this household is at and going forward. We have dinner time used to be, you know, everybody just discussing how the day went on the iPhones. But now we actually have tough topics. We talk about life. We talk about the things that they're experienced. And, I mean, these kids are living a fast life, a lot more faster than what we did.

We was coming up. But it's very scary, McCarrey, because I tell people, I know. I never worked a day in my life. I mean, I love the game of basketball. If I would have made it to the league and not, I still be playing the game. And I had no worries in the world. Now this is, like Ben said,

the toughest job I have is to make sure that I educate my kids and I give them all the tools to survive. And, you know, you would think, like I said, you think by now that we would be at a place where everybody is on, you know, everybody is equal. We all love each other. But, like, hatred is just coming out.

I'm not trying to hide it whatsoever. So let me ask you this. I mean, you brought up a good point. I mean, talk to me about the fact that young players now finally are, you know, they're realizing their power, not just in the NBA, but college athletes as well. Did, I mean, back when you guys played for, it was Carolina Blue. I mean, everybody knew it. But let me ask you, before we get to that very serious question, is the 97-98 team with y'all,

is that the best team to never win a national championship? Absolutely. Who was I was talking to somebody other day. Y'all was so damn good, boy. Man. What had to talk to? Don't, don't, don't. No, I go there because I know that I know you go.

It was Vince fault, wasn't it, Twan? No. I think the most disappointed thing for us is to deal with the disappointments of our sophomore year. And McCarman, I said we were so focused. Golly. When I say after practice, we'll go home, do our schoolwork, come back, two or three o'clock. We weren't partying.

It was all about basketball because we knew that we had the talent. And we had a chance, a legitimate chance. Yeah, it wasn't like a dream. That's a year was up and down. That's the year that Coach Smith retired at the beginning of season. Oh, yeah. And we all was all in because we love and respected Coach Guthridge. And we knew what Coach Smith had done as well.

And we wanted to do it for both of those guys. but just dealing with the disappointments of the year before and knowing what to expect and knowing that no one can stop us. And like I tell people today, man, four or five bad minutes with a couple of 17 and 18-year-old would dictate everything. Who beat y'all that year?

Utah. Utah. Does Keith Van Horn even on that team? No. No. It was Andre Miller. I know that, but still, I mean, that don't make it better. No, I'm just saying.

It's not like he was about to say something crazy. No, I wasn't going to say, no, no, no. And when you talk to the former talk here, they always say, man, y'all had that team, man. Y'all had that team that never won. Because I say that your team were better than the Jordan team that came back after he won a national championship. Because everybody said that team was really good. Jordan was special, et cetera. He finally came into his own.

But I think that that 97-98 team was one of the best teams to play college basketball. I have no regrets in life. Right. All the ups and downs. All the disappointment. But that's the only regret. I can go back and do one thing over. It would be that game because...

Do what in that game now? What would you do differently, though? Not pass as much? I mean, it's just so... I'll pass the ball in this quarter a lot more than what I did. He was on it that game, wasn't it? He was on. I had a good day.

It was just the whole part of McCarrie, you got to think, I mean, this is the final four. This is what you guys are like from day one. It's preaching to I hit. the final four won a national championship. So the year before we didn't make it, we know,

we was like playing too fast. We was kind of like just nervous. And that junior year... Especially the second half of that last of our software year. Yeah. The first half, we were rolling and I think we got comfortable.

Yeah. And we felt like, okay, we figured this out and we could beat and Mike Bibby went crazy. Mike Bibby went apes shit. Yeah. Have y'all seen Mike recently?

Mike looks, whoa. I mean, Mike. No, it's no looks for. He is. I don't know if he's wearing medium t-shirts or what. But the boy, that guy. He's eating wheat. Mike Bibby and Miles Simon.

Man, y'all, y'all had them boys look like the best back court that ever played basketball. Hey, man. That particular weekend, they were. Because they went off in Minnesota to business as well, too. And then they beat Kentucky in the finals. Now, they beat Minnesota, I thought. Was Kentucky. It was Kentucky in the final.

Kentucky, that's right. Kentucky wanted the next year. So, okay, I had to make sure I wasn't going crazy and thinking that that 97-98 team was the best team to never win a championship. I just wanted to make sure that everybody agrees with that. So before we get the player activism, Vince, you're third in all-time games played, 1,541, your sixth in all-time three-pointers. I did not know this. You're sixth in all-time three-pointers. You had to shoot a lot of them to make this many, but 2,290, and you are a top-20 all-time

score, you're the only player in the NBA whose career spans four decades and you're a future Hall of Fame. What's your take on things like the Hall of Fame? Do you care? Do you care when you get in? Let's say Vince Carter is not a first ballot Hall of Fame in, which I think is patently absurd. But let's say he's not. What do you, how do you feel about that? Honestly, I'll be okay. I just tell the truth. No, no, no, no. I don't. I don't know. I'm working. I'm working backwards. The big picture is I'll be okay because, yeah, it'll be painful because it's a dream of all of ours is to win a championship and to be a Hall of Famer if you have that opportunity.

So, you know, you hear it. And I think it'll be disappointing initially is because of, you know, my friend's family and those otherwise who felt like it should have happened and it didn't. So I think that initial thing would kill me more than anything. But, you know, I, I, I, I, I'm still would remain positive. Man, what did he just say, Antoine? That man just used a bunch of words. I'm not sure what he just. He said he'd be hurt, right?

You'd be hurt, man. I did. I said, I'd be hurt initially. Yeah, he tried to give a political answer to car. I'll bring, I'll bring down. That would be fucked up. You can say it. No, listen, initially, initially, I'll be upset and hurt.

But at the same time, you know, I know, there's plenty of opportunity. But, you know, I mean, you know. Not with those numbers, baby. It's first time. You deserve a first, we're going, hey, we go, we go, I'm going to start a change.org petition if you're not first ballot, man. I'm going to get on CNN and I'll just go, whatever the question I ask on CNN, I'm going to say Vince Carter first ballot hall of faith.

And then answer the question. And then answer the question. But no, like I said, you, you hear people talk about it and I've always, you know, just like, you know, I was taught, you know, it's just, I'm aware of it. I'm just a big picture guy. When it gets here, I'll be ecstatic. Obviously, if the opportunity doesn't happen initially, it's kind of disappointing. And, man, I know you pretty well.

You'll never hear me. You know, you know, you know I would. You know me, bro. You know, I won't say that. You know, draw attention to yourself. But come on, man. Thank you. You know what, man.

If it's nice and bad, I'll be mad. Straight like that. That man, I mean, yeah, he's going to have snobbles coming out of his nose when he got to put the jacket on. They're going to have to redo. to bus two times, when it happens, it's different. If I had, if that, if and when that day happens, look here, man. You deserve it, man.

You can wait a smile on my face. So I know we got to go, but I got a couple more questions. You got time. I got time. You know, Antoine might have to go to use his iPad later on. So I got a couple more, couple more questions. Was retirement? Was it like you, because you just announced recently, but was there a chance you were coming

back for year 23? No, because I announced that I was retiring at the beginning. the year. You did that two years ago, too, now. You also, I was going, hey, Twan, don't do that. Tuan, you cannot take my questions, Twan. You can't. Don't do that. We played golf last year. He can't even been over to

the feet. Oh, my knees. They hurt. They hurt. Yeah. And I look, and he's doing the finals, and he in a suit doing the 360. I'm like, man, this man coming back. He tripping. I'm going. Yeah. And that's like two years. I'm done. I'm done. But look, so I'll tell you how I'll tell you how 20, year 22 happened.

So, Twan, some of what you said is somewhat correct. All of it is true. Because, so look, y'all, and I say family, friends, and otherwise talk me into year 22 for the simple fact of it. I was like, okay, this is cool. I'm done. It was like, man, be you going to play 21. You might as well break the record of 22.

So I was somewhat convinced that it made sense. Why the Hawks with 22? Why not go to that? It was just a great opportunity. I just didn't want to chase. People would be like, if you go play 22 years in year 22, why not play for the Raptors, the Bucks, the, It's still opportunities because they, the warriors sitting where we sitting right now. It's just like, you didn't know that at the beginning of the year.

That's true. Sort of. Yeah. Yeah. But don't know, it was still in it though, because you can tell, man. Like when most people that get to that stage, you know what? I don't know if I can do training camp. I don't know if I can do like traveling.

You can just tell like you still had that like, you know, okay, I can do this for another year. And of course like, you know, physical, like, that wasn't a. a question at all, but like mentally, you could just tell, like, it was a challenge. I can play 22 years and break the record. And he could still hoop too, because that's the thing. Like, he wasn't like he was just going to sit on the bench and not do that. They needed him acting on the court. That man turned in a, he turned into Cal Corver real quick.

Make him drive. Make him drive. That's crazy. I was like, oh, y'all going to make you drive? Like, oh, okay. So, Antoine, what's your advice to Vince right now? Because that's where I was leading with this question. So now-

That's what I was about to say. I was going through it and I was like, I'm going through it and I'm going to play and when I've done. And once I was done, for me, it's just because of COVID and how everything happened, I had a game plan of reaching out to some of those players that I respected that I knew played a very long time, like the Kobe's of the world, like the Dirk's, like Twan, you know, guys who had long careers who I talked to on a regular. And because let me say this, I had a rough time in the beginning of year 22 saying the word retirement. I just couldn't. It just because I wasn't, I announced it, but I still wasn't sure.

It's like you do something for so long. You do realize, though, Vince, they even let you broadcast some games during the middle of the season. That means that you're on your way out. No. But yeah, they let me. They say, hey, if you want to, go for it. Yeah, I'll do a few games. Didn't he call you off the, didn't he try to put you in the game?

He's like, I need you to check in. I was like, okay. But no, so I just, you know, so I got the opportunity to talk to Kobe, you know, before he passed. And that was one of the last things we talked about. And he opened my eyes and in my heart to accepting and preparing myself for retirement and being able to say that word. And we were going to have a conversation, a further conversation about that before his passing.

So now that we hear, yeah, Twain, you can answer that question now. No, I'm just saying like, even though, even though we've talked. We've talked about it. We've talked about before. You know, you know what I do now. So, like, so many teams would benefit from him being a part. This is just the locker room alone. This is just the wisdom, knowing what it takes to prepare yourself, the duration of 82 games. This guy's done it more than anybody's ever done it.

But the most important aspect of it, if and when he's in a game, game, he's very productive. I've, this, the last two years, I probably saw about, what, 10 to 15 games? Right. And it's amazing, like, the young guys gravitate and are watching his every move

and he's directing to go here and do this and do that. That is so much needed throughout the whole NBA from top to bottom. You don't have too many guys. You don't have the garnets, you know, the Kobe's, and the carters.

I mean, it's a missing piece that so many teams are like searching for that one individual who can still play, still be productive. The way the game is being played, too, it's not like, you know, when we first got in the league,

every time we, you know, we crossed the paint, we got chucked, and we, you know, the physicality of the game. But now it's so open. If you put this guy on the perimeter and you got Trey Young

or somebody beating somebody down and they leave him, he can knock down a jump shot, but he can also create a shot for himself and get to the basket. So I still don't believe he's done. He said, he announced it. Believe it. We will see.

I saw walking around the house the other day. He done. He did that two years ago. He couldn't have been over to read the play. I'm in golf mode. I'm in golf mode. But I guarantee you, if you give him a ball right now, he can do a windmill between the legs.

I guarantee you that. I don't know about between the legs, but I could probably win him. Not between the legs. So can you, hey, Twine, could you, Twine, honest question, could you still play today? Not today, no. If I gave you three months, two months to get in shape, could you play today? Oh, I can be in playing shape, but my heart and just mentally, I'm done and checked out.

So I still play with the key. Hey, but, Baccar, let me answer your question. So you asked why the Hawks. And what Twan said is, you know, basically the answer for so long, I wasn't at the point where I can go to a team and just sit on the end of the bench and just receive a ring if we won. I felt like I still can contribute to the game and I had something to offer. And that's what I wanted as a player. And I know a lot of people are like, oh, man, why did you just go to, you know, and of course

the laundry list of teams like kind of like you name to go here. And it's like, okay, some of the teams I talk to is like, yeah, you know, we'd love to have you for, like you said, the locker room and that, but we can't guarantee you to play. Well, Atlanta, you know, and a couple other teams like, hey, you know, we need you, we want you to play. Yeah, and be the mentor that you want. So I wanted to play. And I think walking out of the game, yeah, I think walking out of the game, away from the game, excuse me, made me feel better if I'm playing the game and say, okay, I could go instead of, imagine my last year and I played five games. I mean, and it happens.

Don't get me wrong, but I didn't think. You would have looked like Mateen Cleave down there. Samuel, warm-ups. Man, I didn't think that I was, I don't know, bro. I honestly didn't think I was ready. I was at that point. Now, they called me in two, three years. It's like, hey, we like to pay you a couple million to sit here and mentor, you know,

whatever, whatever. That's a different story. But at that point, until March 11th, I was, I felt that I was able to, I could still contribute to the game and get stuff done on the court. So do you still believe you can get, tribute to the game? Nice try. Yes.

Exactly. I do. All right. So that's what I'm saying. So why now? No. No, now is now. It's now.

No, no. It's time. It's time. So, Twan, you remember I asked, watch this. Watch this, Macari. You remember I asked you this question. When did you know? Oh, I knew.

That, right. When did you know? And I asked you? I asked D-Way and I asked Dirt. When did you know, like, you know, that was going to be it. That was your final season. It's kind of like, I knew because I was like, it's time. And I think the March 11th with the pandemic and the virus hitting helped me understand that.

Like I still feel like I could play. I still feel like I could contribute. But some of the politics of the game, that's why I've said this to you before, some of the politics of the game, the way the games changed and the mentality and how things work now is a little different than how it was before. You know, so and that's just, it's tough to deal with these days. So I got one more question. I'm trying to get somebody else to help me with my last question here. My personal question to you, though, is when we're talking about the movement, Twan, you're in the first, you're in the front office. Vince, you're a player. Talk to me about these players who are finding their voice now because it doesn't matter if you are, you know, LeBron James or you're the 16th man. Everybody is speaking up now. I mean, this is a movement that we haven't seen before. So what are you telling young players? What are you telling players today?

in the front office, what are you telling, you know, ownership, et cetera, GMs about how we should lift up players and do this in this moment? I'm going to say this real quick, and then you can go back to Twyman, because I think, I hope you guys agree with me on this. So it's easy for the stars of stars and the names, the household names, to use their voice and platform. I think the unique and unbelievable thing about what's going on now, it's players that maybe the average or everyday fan does not know,

not a household name, and they're using their voice and their platform. And I think it hits just as hard. It's easy for our stars or stars to speak out. And I think the pressure is on them to speak out sometimes because of their name. Oh, you're such such, you're supposed to say something. But I like the fact that it's not only like I said,

LeBron James or any of these stars today, Kyrie, so on and so forth, but we're talking about guys that obviously we know because we play around, but the everyday fan would not recognize their name and their face, and they're using their voice and they're for good for some of their families who come from these small towns, like in South Carolina or whatever in the world who don't get a play. Thank you, my man, I forgot. Small town.

Who don't have a platform, but they're speaking up for those people, and I think that's a great thing. Go ahead, Twain. I get more on the organizational side. I've been in the front office for the last four plus years. And the one change that you see is that everyone across the board from the owners to GMs to secretaries, everybody feels comfortable having this conversation. We had one of the guys who works in the front office and we had a big call with all the people in the front office. And he was like it kind of opened my eyes because I used to go home for Thanksgiving. And I used to dread it.

And he's like, I used to dread it because I had that great granddad who used to speak his mind. And to be honest, in the past, I always said, you know what, it's just granddad. It'll be okay. But now I know I have to stand up and tell my granddad, no matter how old he is. You can't say that. that would offend so many people in this world. And to have a conversation with not only just my black closest friends, but my white closest friends,

and just be honest. And a lot of, no matter black or white, we've always had these conversations and so forth. And you guys know I do the camp every year. And the thing that really stood out, I remember it was last year, and we had the police department come and talk to the kids. And I remember the police chief,

said, how many of you guys are scared of the police officers when you see them come in your neighborhood? When I say about 70% of the campus raised their hands, because that's all they know. And every time they see police officers, it was, you know, arresting somebody or, you know, putting their hands on them. And just never had that conversation with a white police officer.

And he was like, you know, not all of us are bad. I have a black son and kind of open his eyes. But to get back on topic, it's been great. McCar, we talked to Chris. His mom was one of the ones that got shot up in the church a couple years ago. Oh, yeah. And we did a Zoom call with him last week. And here's story, man, to, like, you know, get their phone call.

He was going to baseball. And they told him to get there. It's just unbelievable. to now, not that it's forcing, we have to talk about these things, but not only that the blacks and the whites can have a conversation and be real with each other and just get it out on the open without being reluctant to speak your mind and not just telling your truth. So it's been good on the organization side. And like I said, the players, man, not just, you know, the major sports football and basketball, but we're talking about. soccer. We're talking about these college kids who said, I'm not going to play for this. Yeah. NASCAR, who had on their bingo card that NASCAR would be more proactive than the NFL?

Like, nobody had that on their bingo card. Never. Yeah. My last question for you guys, man, because y'all have been very generous. I got questions about one and done and the last dance and all of these things. I hate the fact, I hate the one and done rule. I mean, I just do. I just think that if you can play, you know, let kids do what they wish. But my last question, to you guys is about Breonna Taylor because one of the things we all have in common is we have daughters. And so, you know, how do we continue to lift up her voice? What are some of the things you want your daughters to know? What are some of the things you want players to say about, especially it's three guys on the Bacari Sellers podcast right now. And one of the things we have to do

is lend our voice in our platform to uplifting black women, especially for our daughters. So I just want to throw that out there to you guys and how you uplift your black daughters. And how you uplift your black daughters especially. Vince, you got two. Tuan, you got three. Three. Yep. Three. So how do you, how do you do that? I think number one for me is to always let her know that them know that I'm in their corner good and bad. And I'm going to do my best to lead you down the path that is the safest, whatever that, however that may entail, whatever that may entail, and however I can do so. And I always want them to know when she stands up for herself, when she's in a situation,

never, ever hesitate to lean on your parents and your dad. And, you know, I just literally had this conversation with her and just telling her how whatever she chooses to do with her in this world, she has my support and never feel hesitant about speaking your mind, asking for help, looking for support, needing to hear how intelligent, wonderful, beautiful, black young lady that you are. And I feel like with, you know, the world today and how we talk to each other, sometimes it's needed and sometimes you need reassurance. And as a young black woman in today's world and, you know, going to the schools that our kids go to,

like you said, Tuan, about what AJ hearing the slurs, I can only imagine for the young female, what they endure at this age, especially at their team. age where it's like, you know, we tend to be cruel and, and the things we say. So I just, I lend my support and I, I, I like the fact when I see when a young black woman and or child knows what she wants, and that's because of the father figures that are like stepping up, showing them this is what you should want for yourself and this is how you want to be treated. So I, you know, I salute you also, Bukari, for what you do and what you've done with her and supporting her in the times that, obviously, you know, I'm not there on an everyday basis. So I appreciate you for that.

And I think she has a unbelievable situation because she has two black men that she can fall back on for support that is willing to do, you know, whatever it takes to help her succeed and become successful, black woman. Whatever, however she wants to do it. Yeah, I always tell people, no, no doubt. I appreciate that. I always tell people that there are no doubt in my mind, Kai has an amazing father. His name is Vince Carter. I'm a bonus dad.

And I get a chance to play a role here. And I think that, you know, just like on every team, everybody has a role. We passed ball to Vince when he's scoring and when if Vince has an off day, if he ain't hitting and I'm there to rebound and kick it back out, So we make this thing work. Antoine with three black girls who, I mean, you know, what's your thoughts? You have Brianna Taylor, Sandra Bland, you have all of these things going on. You, Catherine has one of the best personalities that I've ever been around in my entire life.

She could be a United States senator if she want to. I mean, and your oldest daughter, just chilling with her the other day, I'm like, man, she's ready. I mean, she's getting that North Carolina education. She is ready to go. So what do you tell your daughters? I let them know that they have a voice. They need to be heard to be honest, not only with you enter the circle, your family, but to the world.

That's the one thing. All three of my daughters, they speak from the heart. They have God, first and foremost. They have a support group or support system. And I'd be honest with them as much as possible, Baccarry. I mean, between dealing with being, Disrespected as a female. Now there's sex trafficking

out of black women. I mean, between the pressures of everyday life. You know how it is? Private school. I mean, they're exposed to a lot more things, a lot quicker than the norm, but also try to be

and bring them down to reality as much as possible. Everybody does not get the opportunity to live in the type of house that you have and have all these benefits and still let them know that a lot of people in this world don't care about that. But you said?

But you are black, you are beautiful, your father, you have uncles, cousins that will always be there for you and that I'm so proud and I respect everything that they do. And I pray every night, man,

because my kids just make life so enjoyable. But when I sit there and look at, in my daughters and I see the passion that they have, the joy that they bring into this world, it gives me all the gratification. But you have those difficult conversations with them about what has happened to our beautiful black women. And if you, like my daughter is, I mean,

it's unbelievable Alexis. We have these conversations because she's sitting there like that. I want to put something together because a lot of my friends are dealing with sexual assault. and a lot of them are not speaking up. And I'm sitting there, I'm like, well, Lexus, I hope if you have experienced it, you were seeing and talk to me about that

because it kind of threw me off. I'm like, why don't they tell, like, their parents or somebody? And she broke it down to me that I couldn't understand. At first I didn't understand it, but now I do because, you know, one guy was a football star, and the girl didn't believe that she would have told it. It went to court, and she didn't want, There's so many things that they have to go through that we kind of take for granted.

And I applaud them for educating me and allowing me to see what's really out there because sometimes I might not, you know, think that this can happen to my daughter or this will happen to my, you know, to her friends at this age, but it is. So I commend them from, like, educating me, but I do anything and everything possible to uplift them, to give them a voice, and to tell them, I love them. And like I said, I pray night in and night out, man. It's scary, not only for us, man, to deal with what's going on in this world.

But like you said, McCarr, you know, you got a son and a daughter now. Life changes, man. Different, man. You got to, this is, now you know, what your parents, you know, went through. Yeah, man. And you just thought by now it would be a lot more easier, but. And then teenage, them teenager is a different. Yeah, it's different now.

And the stuff we experience that teenager, they have experienced it a little younger now. So that's just, it's a crazy world. Man, well, fellas, man, I just want to say thank y'all, man. We could probably chat for, and I ain't even seeing y'all. Next time, for next year, I'm going to send y'all a bottle of Remy White or some Hennessy so we could just chill and chat. But I just want to say thank y' y'all for coming on my podcast, man, the Bacari Sellers' Podcast. If you ever need me for anything, I'm really easy to find.

I know that Twan's a better golfer than you right now, Vince, because stop it. Twan ain't got nothing, but Tom. Hey, so do I. Retire Vince right now. Retire Vince is pretty good right now, boy. I'm pretty good right now. Whenever y'all want to get together, man, let me know, man. Thank y'all so much for coming on, man.

Hey, wait, do you golf? Yeah, he's getting there. I'm Tiger in the woods. But, nah, I just had, I just had my first four holes. I had three natural, on one through four, Toarn. I had three natural pars. Not bad. Who do we ask to a test and confirm?

No, I got people. No, he'll keep it real with you, though, Vince, He'll keep it real. That's what that was saying. He was talking about he was shooting in the hundreds. And for him to say that, I mean, that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you know, my-

That's impressive. Yeah, the best I've ever done, the best I've ever shot was an 88. But right now I'm like, I'm a consistent, you know, 100-99. And I could probably, on a good day, probably get you about a 91-92. That's not bad. He gets to the point. He's knowing that and knowing to change that you got to get out there as much as possible. You got to play.

The car, how many time do you see me when you have to eat and stuff? Man, all the time. Man, he just be cruising. He don't be, he don't pay attention. just be cruising. And I got to get my clubs longer, too. I got to talk to y'all about that because I got these clubs meant for point guards. I need to- Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's not going to work. And, hey, because the longer you play with those, the more you're going to, yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yeah. Well, thank y'all, fellas, man. Kiss your babies, man. Have a good one. Thank y'all so much, man.

Yeah, yeah. All right. Appreciate McCart. For sure.