The Ringer NBA Show - Waiting for the Butler Trade, LeBron’s Lakers, and Doncic’s Debut | Heat Check (Ep. 313)

Episode Date: October 1, 2018

The Ringer’s John Gonzalez is joined by Shea Serrano to assess the ongoing Jimmy Butler trade saga and new additions to the Eastern Conference elite (3:49). Then, comedian Ian Karmel comes on discuss the start of the LeBron James–era Lakers, J.R. Smith’s tattoo violation, and the Portland Trail Blazers’ season prospects (25:08). Finally, Jonathan Tjarks joins to examine Luka Doncic’s promising preseason debut, the return of Markelle Fultz, and the potential for Karl-Anthony Towns to elevate this season (53:02). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, it's Liz Kelly, here to tell you that we have a brand new podcast called Halloween Unmast, premiering Monday, October 1st. Here's a sneak peek. There's trouble in the suburbs. A teenage girl named Lori Strode crosses a quiet street toward an ordinary house to find her friends. But Lori doesn't know that her friends are dead, and she doesn't know that she's walking right toward the masked killer of Michael Myers. The movie is Halloween. And Halloween just, it was like a...

It was a breath of fresh putrid air. He's a pure, unknowable evil. I'm film critic Amy Nicholson, and this is Halloween on Mast, a podcast series from The Ringar, celebrating the remarkable and terrifying rise of America's most revolutionary horror film. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast to Halloween Unmast. And watch your back. I think the scariest part was that he doesn't die at the end. So when you're 10, it's like, that guy's still out there.

We got to get him. Welcome to the Heat Check Podcast. I'm your host, John Gonzalez. joined per usual by producer Isaac Lee behind the glass. Hey, basketball is back, guns. Basketball is back. Preseason is underway. We are rapidly barreling towards the regular season,

and we want to thank everybody for listening. He check us back regularly now. We'll be back every single week. We want to thank you for listening. If you don't mind, please give us a review and rate us on Apple and iTunes, a five-star rating. If you don't mind, we'd be wonderful.

All of a sudden, I'm like Al Pacino and Oceans 13 talking about the five Diamantes Award. but we'd like it. If you're so inclined to rate us that way, we'd appreciate it. We've got all sorts of content for you on the ringer.com right now. We've got all sorts of NFL coverage. We've got the Ringer NFL show also on the Ringer podcasting network with Mason Clark. We've got GM Street with Tate and Lombardi.

The Fantasy, the Danes show with the Danys. And of course, the NBA on the Ringer.com for NBA stuff. We've got best and worst case scenarios for all 30 teams. Palo just did number 17 with the Miami Heat. He also went on a very interesting buddy cop routine with Bobon where they went and checked out celebrity homes. Isaac, did you read this? Yeah, I did.

So Paulo had mentioned that he was going to do this thing with Bobon for like weeks. And I was like, what are you actually going to do? Are you going to have dinner with him? How are you going to profile him? He was like, we're actually going to do a tour of Hollywood. It's amazing. And I was so excited to read it. It's really, really good.

So you should check it out. It's the comedy team up of our time, people. You need to read it. And there's also video content as well. So go check that out. Check out Concepcion just did an NBA meme bracket. That's up on The Ringer.com. And also, KOC did a piece about how the Mavs might be better than we expect sooner than we expect.

Later on in the show, we'll actually talk a little Mavs. Luca Donkatch made his debut. So we're going to have Jonathan Charks, our resident Dallas insider. He'll be on the program to talk about Luca, Markell Fultz. And also, he did a Carl Anthony Townspease. We'll have him on. And LeBron made his debut as a Laker in San Diego. and he's been taking Hollywood by storm,

so we're bringing in a Hollywood expert for the first time ever, the head writer of the Late Late Show, which James Corden, and the host of All Fantasy Everything, and a big Blazers fan. We'll have a little Blazers talk with him. Ian Carmel will be on the program.

But first, the Jimmy Butler saga drones on. It is a hot topic, and for that, we need a hot heat check guest. Boom, Shakalaka. He's heating up. All right, joining me on the other line, one of our favorite repeat offenders here at the Heat Check podcast.

frankly, this is the most important podcast he's ever done. It's Shea Serrano. What up, boy. What up, man. So they still won't give you a podcast, which I think is terrible and Tate Frazier is to blame for that. But did you realize that, like, in terms of crossovers, our producer, our esteemed producer, ICE, Isaac Lee made his writing debut.

I believe it was his debut, right? Isaac, he wrote the Clippers' best case, worst case scenario, so they're letting him cross over, but they're not letting you cross over. They're letting podcast, dozer's right, but they won't let me have a podcast. Yes. That's what you're telling me.

That's what I'm telling you. I think it's unfortunate. I got to turn to my two weeks. No, this is getting ridiculous. You had a good run. You had a good run. So before you go, we're going to get into some basketball stuff with you. Jimmy Butler, still not resolved.

Still kind of maybe Timberwolf, I guess, officially, technically a Timberwolf in name only, though, in spirit, he has already checked out. What do you make of the Jimmy Butler drama? I'm quite enjoying it. Yeah. Jimmy Butler is as much attention. Timberwolf is on the Timberwolf at this point. You're a Hall of Fame Timberwolds.

I think it's fun to watch. I'm sure it sucks for Minnesota, but I just went through this whole same thing for eight months with Kauai. So I want to see every other team have to deal with this now. Well, every time I tune into it, you hear something else. So the teams that have been mentioned, I went through the various reports,

and I'm probably forgetting one here, but I'm going to list them off here. Teams that have been mentioned since this whole thing went down, and Jimmy Butler said that he wanted to trade and he had had enough from Minnesota. The Rockets, the Knicks, the Nets, the Clippers, the Pistons, the Sixers, the Heat, the Blazers, and the Kings. I don't do math.

That's quite a big chunk of the league. I feel like you're just reading the names of the teams and the NBA off of, like, the WikiPage. I think some of those teams aren't even in the NBA. I don't know. So the Rockets would be interesting because, you know, adding him into James Hardin and Chris Paul, and to a lesser extent, Carmelo and Anthony would make them, obviously, right off the bat.

I mean, they were already challenging the Warriors for the Western Conference. Now it's legit, like, okay, what's going to really happen here? And he does exactly what the Rockets like, which is shoot threes and get to the free throw line. He wants to go to New York, so maybe the Knicks and Nets. KOC said on the Simmons podcast that like some of the return for what the Timberwolves want is unreasonable. And as an example of this, he said that the Sixers had reached out. And the Timberwolves were like, yeah, cool, we'll take Simmons back, Ben, not Bill. and I'm like, oh, man, that's a lot to ask.

I wonder how reasonable, like, there's been these reports of, you know, Glenn Taylor, the owner saying, just deal with me. And then Scott laid in the GM and Tom Tibido being like, yeah, we're going to drag our feet on this because we want to keep Jimmy. How do you think this is playing out and how reasonable or unreasonable do you think they're asking prices? I saw the thing about him asking for cement, which is ludicrous, of course. You know what the deal is with Jimmy?

I think the gig is up here. think everybody has figured out he's not the guy that you need when you want to win a title. He's like the guy you plug in when you don't have anything else to plug in there. That's why the sixes are like, no, there's no chance we're going to do that because him going to that team doesn't help them win the title. Him going really anywhere is not going to help anybody win the title, which is why there hasn't been a bunch of noise from the other side for teams who won him. We're only hearing it from Jimmy's side, like, oh, I would love to play for any of these teams. But none of the teams are saying the same thing, you know? Yeah, and like I think part of that, obviously, you know,

there's been this stuff about how difficult he may or may not be to play with. And Jimmy had given this interview to Vice last year, Michael Pena, who he said, like, I don't understand why you don't want to chase greatness the way I want to chase greatness, talking about players in general and like not so subtly subtweeting in the interview Wiggins and Kat. But on the other hand, I look at Jimmy Butler and go, he's a dog man he's fucking great he plays excellent defense he gets to the line he shoots threes like i love everything about his game i would love to see him on the sixers not

in exchange for ben simmons but i'd like to see one i'd like to see him with ben simmons and ambide and like you know roll the dice like he's a he's a superstar and i understand why certain teams aren't going after him because like he is going to be a free agent the wolves don't really have a lot of leverage he is going to be 29 as well and like you know there are these issues about him. But me personally, I love his game. Well, yeah, that's easy to say, though. You're saying, I would love to have Jimmy Butler on the Sixers, but I don't want to give up anything for him. Like, that's where we are with Jimmy at this point. Cush, send him to the Spurs, but I don't want to trade anybody on the Spurs for him.

You know what I'm saying? Like, that's where we are. The crazy thing about the Jimmy Butler situation, this is how wild things I've got. I was on the Internet recently, like, I don't know, two days ago. You're on the Internet a lot. I came across a clip of Jimmy Butler at his press conference when he joined the Timberwolves and he was like oh I'm in on the you know ask anybody about me if I'm on the team into my people I'm for Minnesota but when I saw it somebody had sent it around recently and I thought he had just resigned with the Timberwolves it just was like oh okay that's where like that's how wild this whole situation is anything could happen from this point forward and be like oh okay that makes sense yeah I mean last year when they when

they got Jimmy, I was like, this is perfect for them, right? Like, it's exactly what they need. They need a veteran to really, like, command the team and marshal them and, like, sort of bootstrap them into the playoffs. Because, you know, Wiggins and Kat are good players or, you know, Kat is and Wiggins is whatever you think about them. But, like, this is perfect for them. And, you know, obviously the chemistry component is a problem.

I, on the one hand, I go, okay, well, she is going to be a free agent. So we've learned the Carmelo Anthony Nick's lesson in the past where don't trade for a guy that you could ostensibly just sign. with Capspace the following summer. But on the other hand, like, I would give up something for Jimmy Butler if I had some sort of like handshake, wink, knot agreement that he'd be willing to at least entertain the idea of staying. It just wouldn't be Simmons or Embed in the Sixers case.

It would be, you know, Fultz and Sarich or something of that order, maybe that first round pick that they got from Miami. But I wonder what he is worth because, again, the ownership front office situation is contentious and makes them lose leverage there. he is 29 he is going to be a free agent he does have these questions about him i don't think you're going to get a kawai deal where you get like a de rosen and a pertle and a protected first what do you think jimmy is worth if somebody's trying to trade for him now i think he's worth so not even a not even a darmar no i would much rather have demar because demar doesn't come with

all of the baggage that that jimmy comes with now like that's a real concern at this point and every team he's been on lately it seems like he leaves and every one of the everybody turned out hated them. And that's a weird thing to like invite into your locker room, especially if you have championship aspirations. Because I was on that same boat with you last season when they, when they got Jimmy in Minnesota, I was like, oh, this is a perfect fit. This is exactly what they need. And it just fell apart. So I don't, you know, I don't, I don't think you could risk, I don't think you can talk yourself into risking a like legit first or second team all-MBA player. I think it has to be somebody below that.

Isaac, the clippers have been mentioned as a potential trade partner. And obviously they've been mentioned with Kauai as well, potentially come the offseason. Do you want Jimmy? I mean, obviously you'd take Kauai, but do you want Jimmy and do you think that if they got Jimmy that that would help or hurt potentially getting Kauai? Because again, as Shay said, you know, there's all these questions about do you want to play with Jimmy or not? So that's twofold, right?

So do I want Jimmy? Yes. I think I just want a star who actually wants to play for the clipper. Not necessarily, you know, he probably isn't like, oh, I would love to be a clipper. He just kind of wants to be in a big city, it seems like. But I would like to have a star play for the clippers who wants to play for the clippers and not the Lakers. Because every star we've had has never wanted to play for the clippers. So that would be setting a precedent, building a narrative, a new narrative around the clippers.

So yeah, I would love Jimmy Butler. Do I think he'll help us get Kauai? I'm not sure about that. Kauai's a weird guy, as we've seen. So we don't really know what he wants. We don't know if he actually wants to play with another star. We probably know that he wants to win as all NBA stars go. But does that mean he wants to play with another star to try to get a championship?

Is one more star really going to do it with Kauai and Butler? I don't know about that. I think those are all really good points. But the only thing I heard from that when Isaac was talking Shai was how he just wants to love a player who loves him back. and like Clippers fandom is so sweet and sad. I feel for you guys. Shay, what do you think? The longer this goes on,

I think the tougher it gets for the Timberwolves to actually move him before the season starts. And if the season starts and they ask Jimmy to report and he doesn't report, then a 30-day clock starts on him where it could impact his free agency for next season. So my question is, is there a way to put the genie back in the bottle?

Is there a scenario that you envision where they go, don't have a deal on the table right now. You've got to come back until we do. And could they fold him back into the mix when it's so messy? No. If they don't get any offers for him, they can't put together a deal. He'll go back to the Timberwolves just because he don't want to screw his stuff up. But beyond that, it's going to be like, your girlfriend has cheated on you and you like try to stay together, but you're always looking at her with those eyes. They don't you cheated on the that's what it is.

So Tibbs is dragging his feet on this because I think, like part of me again thinks, and this is crazy because Tibbs is generally like insane and screaming and, you know, it looks like his face is going to explode. But I think he might have a point on this. If you're just looking at it from where the wolves fall in the Western Conference and like how good they could, I mean,

they were two wins away from being the third seed and not the eight seed last year. And they're better with Jimmy than without just from a pure on-peer. paper basketball standpoint. And if he's going to go into the season and try to make the playoffs, it's going to be better with Jimmy than without. And, you know, like, that way, if they do fire him next year, let him go or whatever, he could go, well, look, I got the wolves to the playoffs two years in a row. Like, I don't know.

I kind of like don't even blame Tibbs for not wanting to move Butler. No, he's in a no-win situation at this point. Just do whatever he feels is going to help him get his next job, for sure. which is the same thing Jimmy should do. It's the same thing anybody should do in any situation, really. Yeah. All right. Last one on Jimmy Butler,

and then I got some other things I wanted to run past you. But do you think he does get traded before the season starts? And where do you want to see him go? Like, what's the fun storyline where we all go? Oh, yeah, that's, you know what, let's see that. I want to see him. Let's get him and John Wall on the same team and see what happens. For some reason, I feel like that's going to work out really, really great.

So I feel like you're really. being facetious. That would be, so you'd swap out what, like an auto porter or something like that in that scenario? Yeah, you can have, you can have auto. You can have Otto and Dwight Howard. I would like to see him on the Rockets. I mean, like, if you're going to have a crazy-ass team with Mello, too, like throw Jimmy on there and see what happens with the Warriors and like, can they actually get past the Warriors? I mean, they almost did before Chris Paul went down. That would be a fun team for me. I'd love to see that. That would be the worst possible team for me. I don't know what the Rockets are doing anymore. I feel like they're at the store just picking up shit.

Yeah. And there's no recipe at all. We're just going to eat well again. You've got a bunch of, you've got like some spaghetti and some strawberries and a bottle of that. I have no idea what's going out. What are we cooking here, guys? It's a fun, you know what, though? But those can be fun nights where you're just like, we're going to have a smorgasbord of random. And here's the other thing. As chefs go, I trust Darrell Moore's taste. He's good at this. Yeah, he knows it definitely more than I do. Because, you know,

I'm sure it's going to work out. Fine. They'll be the second best team in the NBA, probably. And if they don't, like whatever's Carmel's fault of theirs. Yeah, they'll blame Carmelo. All right, other teams that are going to be good in the NBA, sadly, I hate to say this, but the Boston Celtics are going to

be good. They're very deep. They're very talented. They got Kyrie back, and he was talking about how, you know, Rachel Nichols had asked him like, hey, you know, do you think that you might stay or go when you're a free agent in the off season? And he said, you know, like,

people are assuming that I'm going to go, but we're already pretty effing good right now. And I agree with him. But I wonder if there's trouble in paradise because did you see what Gordon Hayward said about last season? What did Gordon Hayward say about last season? This is good.

This is a good two-man weave. So Gordon Hayward came back and he was on the Pardon My Take podcast and he was asked about watching his team succeed without him. And his quote was, I don't think you'd be human if there wasn't a part of you

that was like, I hope that we lose. Yeah, I get that. You do that. Do you not? Do you not? Yeah, are you not for that? Does that not make sense in your ears?

I can't hear that. I think he said the quiet part loud. You can't say that. I mean, like, I think maybe part of you would be like, oh, you know, they're doing, like, for example, I don't know if you know this. I'm from Philadelphia

and the Eagles won the Super Bowl last year, and Carson Wentz had to watch from the sideline. And I'm sure he wanted to be out there. And to watch his team win the Super Bowl without him was probably better sweet. But I don't know, like people would have lost their shit if he was like, yeah, I wanted us to lose. Maybe, but you would have understood. He wasn't happy about that.

There's no way he was happy about that. Do you remember in that movie Varsford de Blues? They talk about this exact scene. They're all fighting at halftime of the last game in the locker room. And Coach Bud Kilmer is trying to convince them. that Paul Walker's character is, he wants them to lose because Paul Walker was their quarterback and he got hurt. Like, that was the only time of that movie, he made sense to me.

This makes sense for Gordon to say that. If I was out of work, if I had to take like a month off from the ringer, I want, when I come back, I want it to be like almost bankrupt and everything's falling apart. Like, that just makes sense to me. I want to be this, I want to, I want to be a valuable piece. We can't. And if I'm gone and the ringer does better, like, that's kind of sucks for me. we can't succeed without

Shay in that scenario though so what you're telling me is much like the way they made Paul Walker's character the head coach at halftime they should have made they should have fired

Brad Stevens last year and made Gordo the head coach I think we might be a little spun around here but maybe something like all I know is he said what

I felt I feel the same way I would assume everybody feels that same way I just wonder if like the guys in the locker room would be giving them the side die. Like if they're just like, oh, yo, dude, easy. You know, like, what happened to the whole,

like, we're all a team, all in a together type of deal. Nah, you don't want that. You want to be, you want to be a piece of the thing. If they win the championship without Gordon, all that means is they don't need Gordon. That's all it means. That's 100% what it means. Why do we have to have you here? But if they lose and he comes back and they win, then he gets go, oh, well, we needed Gordon. He just wants to be needed. It makes sense, man. He wants to be wanted. I understand that impulse. A guy who wanted to be wanted and now is wanted in Toronto,

did you watch Kauai's debut? Or can you not? Is it too raw still? I don't know who you're talking about. You've never heard of him. Yeah. He played for the Toronto Raptors. He didn't.

This will make you feel better. I watched the game because I have, I lead a full life. So I watched their first Toronto Raptors preseason game against the Portland Trail. Blazers, he looked rusty. He didn't shoot well. He was three for eight from the field. He only made six of his 11 shots from the line, which is uncharacteristic for him. He didn't nail any of his three pointers. He just looked off. I think that's probably natural for a guy who hardly played

at all last season. I mean, how do you, like, I know how you feel about Kauai, but how do you feel about Kauai on the Raptors and the Raptors prospects? Because I think, like, I've got the Celtics first, and then I've got the Sixers and the Raptors as like that second tier right below the Celtics in the Eastern Conference. Yeah, I think that makes sense. I think they can't be any lower than third. I would probably put them second if Kauai gets back to what we saw before he was injured. If he plays like he played in 2014, for example, he's automatically the best player in the

Eastern Conference. And as we've seen for the last eight, nine years, whichever team has the best players going to the NBA finals. So if he's that, I don't think you can put him any lower, the Raptors any lower than two. but I think he makes sense on that team. I think it's going to work out well. I hope it does. I like to joke around and say like,

oh, you know, Kauai Hu or whatever. But the NBA is more fun when Kauai Leonard is really, really good. The NBA is always more fun when a player that you don't like is really good. Like I like to root against James Hardin. That only works if James Hardin is playing really, really well. When he's the MVP of the league, it's cool for me to root against him because, you know, that threat is there, that danger is there. I need a guy on the other side

on the other team who is like gonna slit my team's throat. You know what I'm saying? I told, so if Kauai goes out there and it's a bust and he's just terrible this season, that's not going to be any fun.

I need for him to be good. I need the Raptors to be good. That way when they come to San Antonio in January, it's fantastic. I already bought my tickets, by the way. I was going to say,

not that you already looked on the calendar for when this is going to happen. I'm 100% agreement with you that like sports are more fun. Obviously everybody has a team that they want to root for, a player they want to root for, but it's also fun when you have something to root against. Like, for me, it's all things Boston.

I just like to root against all things. I have a bunch of friends from Boston. It's just fun to be like, I don't like Boston. This is great. So for you, yes, that would be like a nice development if you could gin up some dislike for Kawhi and the Raptors. What about the like, though, for DeRosen? Before I let you go, the Spurs played their first preseason game.

Pop did his pop thing and gave, you know, 15 to 18 minutes to all of his starters. De Rosen had 18 minutes. Do you like De Rosen? He feels like he'd be kind of like a hard guy to get behind. No, he's great. I could tell you right now, I've been, I believe, San Antonio a couple months ago. He's already a beloved figure in San Antonio.

They're all in. He stepped into like, he stepped into the perfect scenario for him, for a guy to be traded from a team that he wanted to play for, to go to a different team. Like, arriving in San Antonio is exactly the type of situation he needed to be in. Because it doesn't matter what he does. If he puts on the jersey and he stands on the court, we're going to go fucking nuts for DeMardoz.

He's the guy. We're all adding capital letters to our name. We're going to grow our hair out. It's going to be fantastic. We love him already, and he's only played, as you said, 18 minutes in a Spurs jersey. But let him get a dunk. DeMar de Rosen won the best dunkers in the NBA for the last couple of years, like in-game dunkers. Let him get a dunk on somebody, which rarely happens in San Antonio.

We'll build him a statue next year. week. I love this. We're going to call you DeChe de Serrano after this. That's your new name. Perfect. Perfect. Anything you want to plug for the ringer coming up? I don't want to plug anything. I especially don't want to plug anything up on the podcast network. Not for the podcast network, but you can find him all the time on the ringer.com. He's everywhere. He's Shea Serrano. Thanks for doing this, homie. All right. That was Shea Serrano. We left having it on the program. We're going to bring in Ian Carmel in just a second, but first a word from our sponsors.

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He's heating up. All right, joining me in the studio. I'm very excited about this. He's the head writer for the late late show with James Corden. He's the host of All Fantasy Everything. He's got a stand-up special on Netflix. He's jet-set and all over. Frankly, the most famous person we've ever had on He-check. Thank you. It's good to be the most famous person.

And Cian Carmel is here. It previously did. It's a very low bar. Previously it was Simmons and then Concepcion's dog Milton. Yeah, yeah. I think Simmons might be more famous than me. This is great, though. It's a challenge.

It's just, it's like, I don't know. One's got like five or six million Twitter followers. The other has a 15-minute special on Netflix. Pretty close. It's pretty close. Tough to weigh those two things. Milton and Milton might be, you know, Milton might be the Velvet Underground. If we're the two big bands, he's the, Milton is the most influential guest you've ever had.

He's got a cult following. Yeah. And he's still wandering here at some point. But I wanted to bring you in because we, you frequently will tweet at us about basketball. You love basketball. Yes, I love you guys and I love basketball. And you are in show business. And I thought who better to talk about the intersection of show business and basketball and the Lakers and LeBron than you.

He's here. he had his first game last night. He sure did. They lost to the nuggets in San Diego. He played 15 minutes. He had nine points. He shot two of six from the field. It wasn't a very good LeBron game.

I think, frankly, he's probably washed. I think he's washed. I mean, well, it's hard to tell. When you run into a buzzsaw like, Wancho Hernon Gomez, it's really hard to gauge whether or not he's washed. You know what I mean? That's going up against the best.

I'd like to see him against lesser competition. Yeah. And see how that goes. It's tough for him to start out with that kind of competition right away. I know the Nuggets have like consistency and are like running back the same team. And when you don't have a lot of training camp that like matters. But I'm not as sold as the, I'm seeing people now like, like Lakers, two seed, maybe three seed.

And I just can't buy it yet. And I love, I love LeBron James, but I can't buy like them finishing that high. That team is just too wacko. It's too crazy. The Western conferences is interesting. Like you've got, obviously you've got the Rockets and the Warriors at the top. But then afterwards you throw in your blazers and the thund. We'll talk about the blazers.

Thunder and Jazz and all that stuff. But it's like pretty much up for grabs after the top two guys. And I kind of oscillate back and forth between going, yeah, the team is really fucking crazy. It's crazy. You've got Lance Stevenson and Javel. How is there not a scenario where Lance and Javel have like accidentally stolen the Goodyear Blimp? Like they didn't mean to, but they're like floating above Los Angeles. They think there's like traffic and that's how they're going to get to Staples Center.

And then it's the two of them hovering over Staples and we just have like helicopter shots. Like it's a police chase. It's in, it's going to have something. Something bananas is going to happen with this team because it has to. And I feel like LeBron has had some really crazy teams in the last couple of years where there's been a lot of dysfunction. Obviously with the Cavs last year, there was a lot of roster turnover. And right now everything's good, right? It's preseason.

They're talking about Magic and Polinker are talking about how they have the deepest team in the NBA, which is hilarious and wonderful. But they do have this crazy cast of characters. And eventually when it's less rosy and less sunny and they actually get. to know each other, and LeBron remembers that Lance blew into his ear. Like, then what happens? Yeah, he's going to be like, oh, wait, fuck this guy. I've hated this guy the entire time. Like, I realize, like, Prime LeBron could bring a team that had, like, Delante West, you know,

deep into the playoffs, for example. But, like, is this era of LeBron going to want to deal with that, especially with as many showbiz things as he has on its plate? Can I wonder if he thinks he can win a championship with this team. So, like I said, part of me goes, oh, yeah, this team is going to be weird, and they're going I wrote about this, ringer.com shout out and plug. Big website.

Check it out. You should read it. It's all the kids are reading it now. But I think, like, LeBron invariably ends up changing his teams. So the team that he has right now won't be the team that he has in February. That's true.

That's 100%. He's going to get somehow like Mike Muscala. Somebody crazy. But he'll get tired of some guys and he'll want new guys and they'll come in. But I wonder, like you, where I go, okay, is this team capable of it? And then I go, but he's Lebron.

He is LeBron and he's been LeBron for so long He's always LeBron His whole life he's been LeBron He's been LeBron the whole time The whole time Yeah and he's still LeBron Right so I go It's hard to bet against the dude

It really is It's maddening Everything that's happening with the Lakers As a Blazers fan Who you know We're a very salty fan base Yeah Secretally or not secretly

I have no idea what the perception is But it's this weird thing Where it's like We hate the Lakers more than anyone right Hate the Lakers like the beat L.A. They don't care. The Lakers don't care.

The Lakers don't care at all. It's a real little brother situation. But now, but like I've been really against like the Warriors and the super team thing. But now do I want the Warriors to be good to take out the Lakers who I've always hated? Or do I want the Lakers to take out the warriors who I hate the most now? It's a real enemy and like the enemy of my enemy. Yeah. But none of them are my friends.

No. And as a basketball junkie, I kind of think the same way. Like obviously, you know, I grew up watching the Sixers and. watching the Lakers dominance got old after a while. But with the Warriors, every season it has this anticlimactic feel to it, right? Like, we know going in what's going to happen this year. It's like watching Game of Thrones at the Emmys. It's like, all right, okay.

Oh, you guys won again. Congratulations. Slow clap, yeah. Wow. But, yeah, I think, like, LeBron in L.A. could court some people to come and potentially eventually maybe, you know, give the Warriors a little bit of a run. Maybe some people who recently signed a Clutch sports and are in a small market. There you go.

That whole Clutch thing is, it's a perfect feeder system and pipeline for him. It really is. It's like an AAU system. He uses the rest of the NBA as an AAU system. Come sign with Clutch and then we'll get you up to the big leagues. He created his own AAU system. It really is amazing. But you mentioned like the Hollywood stuff.

And I find it fascinating because, so it always looked like LeBron was coming to L.A. And we've been bracing for it. And I think it's going to be fun and interesting. and like LeBron in L.A. on the Lakers is a massive story and will continue to be so. But he was asked about like all the little Hollywood. Like he's got a shit ton of stuff happening in Hollywood. And that was obviously a big component for him coming here, even though he would never say that that factored in, the basketball is he always, he's very careful about saying basketball was the only thing. Right.

But he was asked about it at a media day. And he got sort of like, not indignant, but he like. A little. And he goes, you know, like, obviously you don't know who I am. I've always been doing this and like I can handle my business. You have one full time, well, several full time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, he's LeBron, has to be LeBron and keep like the basketball component going.

And now he's business LeBron too. I don't know how he plans to do that. But I also, do you ever run into these people like here since you've lived in L.A. where they're like working on like six different things? Every Uber driver I've had. Every Uber. But like even like high level people where they're like, like the executive producer of the late late show is this guy like Ben Winston.

who I think it's like been on JJ Reddick's podcast weirdly. I'm sure. But he produces our show. JJ. Everybody loves JJ. Ringer employee of the month, JJ. Jay J.J. Rennett.

Go to hell, J.J. Redick. If you listen to this. You're on this one. Yeah. You can go on the other one. This is the one for the real heads. James, James Corden didn't know that the Clippers were a basketball team.

He says the Lakers and the other one. All right. You want a real late late show Hoopstock. You come here. That's right. To a team who knows who Omri Kasby is. Is he still in the league? I'm asking you.

I think he's on Memphis. Sure. Sure. But I kind of think LeBron can get it done. I almost think he's the kind of guy who's going to be like sitting in an ice tub with an iPad that has like dailies from some children's movie that he's producing on it and just like approving things or not approving things. I also think he probably is going to have like a dilettance touch on whatever it is

he's working on. He'll be like maybe and then other people who know more what they're doing. We'll be like shepherding it through. Yes. I just wonder about his multitasking. And this is something that I talk to. We have a lot of people here at the ringer who do many, many different things.

I ask Chris Ryan all the time. In addition to Chris Ryan being like, I forget what his new title is. He's got a crazy new title. It was previously executive editor. Editorial director. Thank you, Isaac Lee, our producer, talking in my ear. Who does know who the clipers are.

Isaac is very talented. Everybody's got a new title here. But Chris is an editorial director. He writes all the time. He's got 12 different podcasts of renown. he's also my editor. Right. And then on top of that, he's like consuming all this pop culture.

He'll talk about some show on the watch. I'm like, when are you watching the show? I know he's like six episodes deep on it. He plays short stuff for the Dodgers. He's very good. Next up behind Kavanaugh, he doesn't get through for the Supreme Court. I hope. He's got a lot of, he's got a fantastic legal mind.

Yeah, yeah. But I want to know, like, so just doing that much stuff as a normal human is very impressive. Yeah. But then there's like LeBron level stuff where not only are you playing basketball at the highest of the high. You're the best player of your generation, maybe the best player ever. Yeah.

His body, like the time it takes to put it into his body, and then on top of that, all the business shit, like, when does he sleep? I don't know. Maybe he's one of those guys who sleeps like four nights a week. Or, I mean, maybe he reads Chris. He takes nights off where he's not sleeping. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He just stays up. I meant to say four hours a day, but four nights a week wakes a week. It's very impressive. If he did it, I would be like, sure, he's LeBron. You got to do something while you're getting those East German blood transfusions, right? Maybe that's when he's reading. script. I'm bringing East German

steroid phobia back. Kobe used to do that. Should he fly over and get like the blood? It spin his blood and then put it back in. Yeah. There's a long flights. Maybe that's where he's reading the scripts. I find it very impressive that LeBron can pull all that stuff off. He's got the shop on HBO. He's got

all, you know, his podcast network. Now Jamel Hill has left ESPN is going to do something for him. Right, right. He's doing shouts to Mike Levin, our buddy who does the right, Sirkey Sanchez podcast. They just, they just sold a pilot to the Ben Simmons one, right? The Ben Simmons one, Brotherly Love, to NBC.

So he's got all these things going on. I just wonder, like, if the proximity to Hollywood, like it's one thing to be doing all this shit from Cleveland where you're not real, like you said, you're farming it out to people. Yes. And it's another where you're here. You're on the ground. I think what him being in Los Angeles allows him to do is when there's that last

meeting that needs to get a show or a movie or a script or whatever over the goal line, him being in L.A. means he can show up at that meeting. and three or four executives can get a picture with LeBron and he says like four or five things that have been handed him on a note card. Or maybe he speaks from the heart. He's a very smart guy. I'm sure he has actual opinions on this stuff,

especially on things like the shop. That's what it's called. Yeah, yeah. The shop, things like that that are more conversation and opinion-based, maybe less script-based. And just having like a charismatic person who's going to make like the most intimidating people

in that room, like the executives, are going to be fawning over him. Sure. I think that's just a huge advantage. And if he can leverage that, I mean, that's what, like, people want pictures with him all the time. And if you can walk into a room and be like, yeah, the president of Fox or whatever wants a picture with me, and he can leverage that into maybe getting a show sold, that's probably what being in L.A. lets him do. More than, like, the day-to-day kind of thing.

I'm sure that's what he's doing. I find that peer-level fame interaction very interesting because I don't experience that, obviously. But LeBron was talking the other day of practice. Somebody asked him about little Wayne being back in the time. the game and he's like, where'd Little Wayne go? He's been making music since 96. And like, it was so obvious that he was just talking about a pier. Yeah. And I just wonder what that's like when he walks into room. Like, I'm sure with Corden, like, people come, you see famous people all the time. All the time. The way that they interact is like normal as opposed to, you know, those of us who are

normies going, oh shit, that's somebody really famous. I know. Like, you can barely breathe around them. And then, yeah, they're just like, they're chatting. Like, it's like, if you saw somebody like at Whole Foods, who you worked at the ringer with. Yeah. It's like that kind of thing. Tiffany Hattish was on our show, like, and I think Dead Simmons's podcast. when he was on our shoes on our show last week and she was there early. And like, I don't think her and Gordon had even ever met each other before. And then they saw each other. It's just like, we're both famous.

We know what this is. It's like two dogs sniffing each other. Yeah, this is normal. Yeah, exactly. They're also like charismatic for a living. So I think just when you get two of those people around each other. Damn them. Yeah.

It's really. It's like, we're on a movie lot here at the ringer. And we see people all the time. But like, you know, it's day rigour to go up and say anything to them. I know. Yeah. And I was a big West Wing fan and I saw Joshua Milina. Yeah.

And I was like, oh, right, I can't. I just have to look at you from a bar. Josh Malina, you can. Yeah? I think that's, I think that is an acceptable level. I think he would be thrilled. I think he would be like, oh, hey, nice to meet you. You know, you get a little higher up the ladder like Bradley Whitford, you know, from the West Wing.

Yeah, maybe don't talk to him, right? Martin Sheen. Martin Sheen, although he was so affable as the president, maybe he would want to talk to you. Court your vote a little bit. You're hitting all my West Wing sweet spots. Yeah. Duley Hill? That's a wild card.

This is really gone. Love the West Wing. As the Heat Check podcast is gone, this is the most West Wing conversation we've ever had. Duley Hill's a tough one because, I mean, like, West Wing, he was great. You know, and then he's in ballers for a little bit, too. Oh, yeah. So you have the sports angle. You can work that.

That's a nice crossover. I like that. All right. So we did Lakers. I wanted to talk to you about, so, you know, like, obviously LeBron's got a lot of crazy teammates right now. Yes. He left behind one particular crazy. teammate in Cleveland that I wanted to run this past you.

So J.R. Smith doing J.R. Smith things in Cleveland can't not be J.R. In the same way that LeBron has always been LeBron, J.R. Smith can't stop being J.R. Smith. He got a tattoo. He's got many tattoos. But the new one that he got is a supreme tattoo, which is on his leg. I believe it's on his back, right calf, and it's just, you know, it's a supreme logo up his leg. And I didn't realize that this would be a thing. It feels like more of an NFL thing. But according to Shams Charnia at the athletic, the NBA informed J.R. Smith that he would be fined per game during the season for the Supreme tattoo on his leg unless it is covered. And J.R. is going to have some conversations with the league about this. I didn't realize that this was like potentially a problem. Back in the day,

Rashid Wallace was going to get like a Nestle tattoo and the NBA stepped in. And like Paul Pierce had a blade on his forearm that he had a cover up. But yeah, they said that this is something that he will either have to change or remove or cover up because he will get fined per game. I don't know. I don't know. It's expensive to be a hype beast. It's expensive. So Concepcion said that Supreme should pay for his fine because they're getting some good publicity.

They absolutely should. They should also do something to manage the crowds of teenagers who are going to line up outside of his thigh. Yeah. Just any time you put a Supreme logo, there's going to be a line of teenagers right outside of them. Thank God he didn't get like an Abercrombian fidge or an outfitters. Then you would have to have that weird cologne fog every time you walk by. You would have seen like a chemical weapon attack happened in that. Supreme should be, I don't know.

Like, Supreme's a little bit different, right? I mean, that's like the Nestle thing that she'd wanted it was clearly a ploy to get Nestle to give him money for it. Yeah, and or candy. And or, yeah, right, or candy or maybe something to color in that. Sure. You know, is that a bald spotter or is it a gray's patch? It's a patch, right? Yeah.

I like it. It's very distinct. I kind of like it too. But I wonder like about the line for, like, where does the NBA draw the line on, like, how they can legislate what somebody puts on their person? Right? Because, like, I guess it is a corporate logo, but also it's just a word. Like, like, Gortat, I'm pretty sure, has an Air Jordan tattoo. Yeah, that's never been a problem, but that's a brand.

And in the 90s, all those players who came up in the 90s have those terrible and one guy tattoos. Oh, yeah. You know the faceless. He's wearing basketball shorts, but he's got a ripped torso and no face. Yeah. He's got a face like a motorcycle helmet. There's a lot. I think like Joel Presbilla had one of those.

I mean, Joel Prisbilla needs to do something, right? The vanilla gorilla. He's got to definitely stand out. Do you have any ink? I have no ink. If you were going to get some ink, yeah.

Would you like would you obviously supreme on your calf? Supreme on my cap. I have a big Supreme Calf tattoo. Right. Uh, I probably get the Stumptown coffee logo, like a full, a full back piece.

I like it. Yeah. A full. Huge. Just like giant. And then maybe like, again, like a JJ Reddick down.

voodoo donuts down the other one. Voodoo donuts, yeah. I've never been actually two voodoo donuts. It's renowned. It's more silly than it is. It's a fine donut. It's a fried piece of dough. They'll fry up a piece of dough for you.

And then put some sugary stuff on it. They used to, so when it was just a Portland thing, there's one in L.A. now. But they would put, this is why it's popular, I think. There's one in Universal City Walk, I think. Okay.

I told you, I live on the west side. You would never come out. I only come here and then I go back home. It would literally be easier to fly to Portland. It's very far to go places here. They put a cup of NyQuil in a donut, and the FDA had to tell them that wasn't okay. Shut up. Did they really? Yeah.

When they were like first, you know, coming at. Just because they were weird, like weird punk rock dudes who opened, you know, like this donut place. I've never tried the NyQuil donut. I've had donuts after ingesting NyQuil. Is it a, you did it yourself? I've done it myself. You mixed it in your mouth. Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I just like, I turned my stomach into the big, the big kettle. So you bring up Portland This is an excellent transition You should be a podcast host You have a podcast

You do all fantasy everything It's your professional I wanted to talk Blazers with you Because you're very busy And you have to go and do An entire show with James Gordon We do have a show today It's every day

It's every day It's endless You get it You know this podcast comes up I do once a week And I'm tired I go home and I have to lay down It takes me forever to play in this thing

I can't believe you do one every day But you mentioned Portland And I wanted to talk to This is how I ended up interacting with you on Twitter because you're a big Blazers fan. By the way, I appreciate how much you defend Portland as a city. It's fun.

And the Trailblazers as a team on the ring of which is a, which has, has, has, and I will say this, in your own building, has a slight anti-Trailblazer vibe with how much they advocate trading Damien Lillard. The Ringer, Steph, KOC, every time he comes on this program, he advocates blowing up the back court. All the time! I feel like they don't get, I am obviously first and foremost, the follower of the, Philadelphia is 76. Of course,

however, if I was going to adopt a team, Portland Trailblazers are fun. They've got fun uniforms. It's a fun court. It's a fun experience at Motor Center where it's a little dark and they do like the mood lighting

and the fans are super into it and it's the only game in town. That's it. Unless you want to go watch the timbers play Major League Soccer. I do not. Well, a lot of people in Portland do. I know.

It's very much that kind of city. They have like a march to the game. It's huge. It is. I'm not, I've become a bigger soccer fan in the last. year, but I've never been much of it, and I still am not much of a soccer

fame, but a live Timbers game is crazy. Because they do these big, like, TIFO things where they have, like, giant 60-foot, like, pieces of paper that they make it look like Freddie Kruger. Where do they make those? I have no idea. There are Tweed warehouses in Portland that are just for arts and crafts that the city might sponsor. So that's, I mean, but, like, yeah, there's a march.

Everyone's wearing, like, scarves and drinking beer and singing. Stuff that happened in Portland before there was a soccer team, but now there's a purpose, too. I feel it's like Brooklyn broke off and just moved to the Pacific Northwest. Oh, yeah. And I'm here for all of course. Exactly. The bridge is the whole bit. It's a wonderful about it. It's a fantastic place. So I like the Blazers. I'm supportive of the Blazers. I was very excited about them during the regular season last year. Sure. Less excited once they made it to the playoffs. I finished third in the regular season. And then the Pelicans come out of nowhere and smack them. How did you feel about that? How do you feel about them now? I felt terrible about that. It was,

It was awful to watch. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we ran into playoff Rondo and then Drew Holliday, who was a big guard. And I think Dame was like maybe a little more hurt than he let on. But it was still so disheartening. It was because Dame had an amazing season. She was so good season. Defensively, they were fantastic.

He was first team all NBA, you know? Dane was first team all NBA. I thought what really surprised me about that team last year was I believe, and I'm doing this off the top of my head. I think that they were eighth in defensive rating, which was surprising to me. They were good defense. Generally, you look at them and you go, that back court, they're just going to be really good offensively and they're going to try to outscore people.

They played great defensively. And then, yeah, the matchup for them. I mean, Anthony Davis is a monster. As you mentioned, Drew Holiday is a really big guard and that was a bad matchup for them. But I just, I couldn't reconcile their regular season with their postseason. Now I have no idea what to make of them this year. I have less of a clue going into the season

than I feel like I ever have before. We didn't really get anyone. I mean, we lost that Davis in the offseason, which was tough. We lost Shabazz Napier, which seems like a weird thing to say, but he actually played pretty good. I'm in charge of doing our, we're doing these best and worst things right now for every team.

Best case, worst case scenario. And I've got the Trailblazers just come out in a couple days on the ringer.com. Oh, great. Shameous plug. And I was going through what they lost and what, and I was like, do I even put down Ed Davis and Chabazz? You have to, or Portland, the people in Portland will come for you, they'll come for you

on Twitter. They loved Ed Davis so much. They love somebody who just shows up and grabs eight rebounds and does nothing else. Portland loves that player. Yeah, 20 minutes. They're going to run him out there. So we lost them and gained Seth Curry, so I don't even know.

Like you said, if that's worth mentioning that we drafted like a guy who was at IMG Academy, Anthony Simons, you know, who was like at, not even at a college last year. I don't think anyone can expect him to come forward and do anything. And then again, as long as we have Evan Turner on the books. I love Evan.

I love him. He's just fun. He's just fun. That's the thing about this team. And like, it's a thing I've come around on with just being a Blazers fan my whole life, which is in the NBA, you know, one team is going to win the championship at the end of every season. And you've gone through this as the 76s fan.

One team wins. I've done extensive research and the analytics have come back and it turns out most seasons, most seasons, one team wins the championship. Yeah. Other years, it's no team wins and then the next year they went two of them.

It's like a skim. But would I route, do I want to see the Trailblazers blow it up and go like and do the process? Or is it fun for, me to watch them win between 44 and 50 games every season and like maybe get to the second round and like when they come to L.A., I get to come watch them beat, you know, the Lakers and the clippers.

When I'm back home, I get to watch a fun team, or do I want them to go through the process? And I've kind of made peace, and this might not be a popular opinion with other Trailblazer fans, I'm fine with them being like the five seat every season. See, I think it is kind of a popular opinion because like Olshe said after the season, you know, when he did his exit interview and everybody's saying, you know, he did his exit interview and everybody's like, what the fuck, man, you guys were good. And then you just got blown out by the Pelicans in the first round. Like, this is bad.

What are you going to do? Are you going to blow up the team? And he's like, look, it's hard to win this many games during the regular season. It's hard to identify two stars in your back court. It's hard to win, you know, 49 games and be relevant. And there's something to be said for that. And yet, then, like, as I was doing my preview, I'm like, okay, like, I get that point. Everything I said, I love the aesthetic.

of the Blazers. I love watching the Blazers. I love the new BioFries logo. As logos on your shoulder go, I mean, come on. But then I think to myself, like, when I was trying to figure out, like, what's the ceiling for this team? I'm like, oh, yeah, last year was the ceiling regular season-wise, right? Like, maybe you went a round

or two. Maybe if you're really lucky, you get to the conference finals. That's the ceiling. And that's pretty much going to be it, because you're still in the same conference as the Rockets and the Warriors and now LeBron. Yeah. Unless Zach Collins turns out to be somebody. Some big player, but, which probably mightn't,

also Myers-Lennard just won the MVP of the fanfist. Zach Collins is your new Myers-Leonard, by the way. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Myers-Lennard is always going to be my Myers-Lead. Myers-Lead is, can we just have a quick Myers-Let? So during the off-season, a bunch of players come to L.A.

Yes. It's like the home of the NBA during the off-season. And they all work out and they have these crazy games all over the city. And one of the games is Drew Hanlon's game out by L-A-X. And Bede plays in it, and Tins. him and Jordan Clarkson and sometimes Beal and Markle Fultz was there.

Myers-Lennard was there. Myers-Lennard doesn't actually play a lot anymore. For the Trailblazers? Sometimes. Not regular season minutes, I wouldn't say. Like, they tried it two years ago. We save them if we make the championship,

we're saving his legs for that. You got it right. You can't exhaust Myers-Lennard. You're going to need him later on. But two years ago, they tried it and it didn't work out and he's just been around. He comes to these games. I'm like, where's Myers-Lonner?

He's ripped up. He's so ripped up. So athletic. I'm like, I think I'm back in on Myers-Lenner. He's like seven-foot, like Val Kilmer and Top Guns. He's such a good-looking human being. He's a great-looking dude. Bodies all cut up, rocking weird sunglasses, taking lots of shirtless picks.

Like, really, like, getting into it with Embed. Like, really hyper-competitive. I'm like, he was like that with DeMarcus cousins, too. Anytime the Blazers play a team with DeMarcus cousins, which is one of the things that was too bad about that injury last year, is that we were deprived of a Myers-Lennard-Dermac-Cous-Cousin's playoff. Which would have been explosive. We might have actually won the series, weirdly, if DeMarc has played,

just by building off of that La Pasion that Myers-Lennard has. He's got it. He's got it. He is fun to root for. A lot of Portland fans hate on Myers-Lennard. And there's also the thing, which is a little weird, where Portland is secretly a more racist city than, like, everybody wants to think it's all, like, really nice coffee and, like, weird donuts.

Yeah, and tolerate humans. And there is a very thick fondant of that on the cake. But underneath, it's secretly like a little racist place. It's a very white city. Yeah. It's a very white city. And then it's got a racist history. Weird to get into this on the heat show.

I'm sorry about that. We've gotten into many strange things from donuts and West Wing. Now we're getting into, like, demographics and racism. But, uh, so it's always, like, it's always a little dubious when Portland gets really attached to like a white basketball player more than maybe. But that last year they loved Ed Davis way more. So hopefully things are changing. But, uh, but he's just fun to root for.

He's like a big golden retriever puppy out there who makes $11 million a year. On paper, he should be, like, I watch him physically and I'm like, this is a human that I would be like, he should be out there doing stuff. If it was the year 800, people would think he was a god. He would walk around with a spear and people would anoint him with oil. We need to get him a spear. Yeah. I think it would help him on the court. All right, before you go, because like I said, you've got a whole show to go and do, give me a prediction for your trailblazers.

What do you think about them this year? I think they're going to finish fifth. Okay. And give the Lakers a run for the money in the first round. Take it to a game seven. That'd be a fun first round. That's going to be what it's going to be. Portland, L.A.

They're going to fly down here. I'm going to go to the games. And I will never find out what happens in game seven because I will be detained at Staples Center. And then for getting into a fist fight with Kuzma. All right. That's my prediction. That is a hell of a prediction. I think that's perfect.

We're looking forward to it. It's going to be exciting. Check him out as the host of All Fantasy Everything, on Netflix, of course, the late, late show. And now Milton is very upset that you've supplanted him as the most famous person on Heat Check. Milton and I are going to do a buddy podcast. That's what we're going to do. It's excellent. We're going to do a rewatchables of a dog's life.

I can't wait. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for having me. This was so fun. All right, that was Ian. He killed it. We would definitely have to have him back. That was a lot of fun.

and now we'll bring in one of our favorites, Jonathan Charks. Bochakalaka. He's heating up. Joining me on the other line, one of our favorites here at the Heat Check podcast and the ringer.com. You can read all this stuff. He's got all kinds of stories up. Staff writer, extraordinaire, Jonathan Charks.

What's up, Charks? What's up, guys? Glad to be back. It's back to be in pod season. Pod season, NBA season. Because we're all sick and we have a sickness for basketball. We were on Slack this weekend talking about Luca Donkitch's debut. The Dallas Mavericks murdered the poor Beijing ducks by, I don't know, it was like 50 points.

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. But for preseason, preseason is like, the NBA preseason is largely useless to me. You don't see a lot. I mean, like, teams tinker and like with the Lakers, they're, you know, they're experimenting with Kuzma at the five, which I think is hilarious, but whatever. But you see like a little bit of tinkering, but you don't really, like nothing really changes in the preseason barring injury. The storylines are set. We know basically what to expect. But with these young kids, there is some sort of excitement. So what did you make of Luca in that first game? Because the ringer staff, very excited. I mean, we're all bloggers, right? By contract, we have to be into Luca. I mean, it's hard to say, like, we know Luca can kill bad teams. He can kill non-MBA

teams, knew it already. So I think there's not much to be learned from being a bunch of NBA castoffs in China, honestly. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like, so he had a nice line. He played 30 minutes, which I think was interesting. Rick's playing him into shape, man. Rick's sweat off those pounds. So that's a point that I wanted to bring up. So there's been some question about his body type, and he does look a little

doughy. How do you feel about that? I actually haven't seen him yet because I was traveling last week, so I missed a fruica camp, and then they're in China now. So I'm not totally sure, but here's my take on it. This is actually, I think this is Ethan Strauss's take, which is a good one. Fat guys have room to grow because it's very easy to fix their fatness. Is it easy to fix it?

Well, look, look, Draymond Green, Mark Gassol, Nicola Yokic. All those guys remade their bodies, became big draft steals. Yeah, Gossal is a great example. I mean, he was definitely soft when he came in and now he's in terrific shape or it was at last check. But I wonder, though, there's also like the Ray Felton's of the world where they, you know, get a little pudgier. I just wonder which where he might go.

Well, I think also, so I talked to Bogdan last year for a feature. And one thing he told me, him and Luke are pretty tight. He said, I told Luca come to the league as soon as you can because you got to see it for yourself. Like when you get to America, you see how much work they put in their body. It kind of work it takes to be an NBA athlete. And it kind of makes you speed your game up a little bit in terms of working on that because in Europe, it's not as big a deal.

Yeah, no, that's a really good point. Like the level of attention to nutrition and actually. exercise and like making sure that you get the proper amount of sleep and like treating your body like it's your job because your body is your job is an important component that like, you know, maybe isn't as emphasized in Europe, like in that Mina story where Mina went over to Spain and hung out with Luca and they're like just in cafes the whole time and he's eating chicken fingers and just living the Boris Dio life. Can you blame him?

Yeah, Boris is a great example. Boris, I mean, he's he's the quintessential European, right? he's got his espresso machine that he's bringing from locker room to locker room but so yeah

I wonder how Luca will get into that I mean I think Boris is probably the worst case scenario right if Luca gains like 25 pounds yeah and he becomes

like Boris Boris had a great career though I know I'm saying Lucas floor is very high it is very high so there were a couple of plays in that game

against the Beijing ducks where Luca like kind of like slow-mo put it behind his back and between his legs and then like

had a runner where he Oh, yeah, the Justin Hamilton runner. I remember that behind his back, hanging in the air. Yeah, and he banked it off the backboard. And then, like, immediately the internet lost his shit. And I was like, uh, I guess it was a good play. Like, like, what's the bar right now, right?

Because he's, it wasn't like he was super shaking bacon somebody. He was not going that fast. He does look a little doughy. I was like, I guess that's a good move. But it is against the Beijing Ducks. Like, what is our bar for being impressed by Luca? I think what I want to see this year, the one play I liked. He pulled up from like 29 feet one time and just shot it.

I think that's the key for him as that deep, deep three point range because he gives him more him to drive with the basket. He needs to have the ultimate green light. Just take some bad shots this year. Just really stretch your shot out as far as it can go from the paint. I think like he's going to have plenty of run. I mean, they're going to run them out there. I wonder though, so he is a good playmaker.

He's got great court vision. How do you like the fit with Dennis Smith Jr.? Like how do those two guys coexist on the court? because Dennis Smith Jr., obviously, like, hyper athletic. He had to play the other night where he followed his own shot and threw down a ridiculous dunk on nobody because the defender moved out of the way. But still, he is super athletic and wants to yam on everybody.

But he can't really shoot yet, or he couldn't last year. He's still working on that. So how do those two guys coexist? Actually, I got a fun stat for you guys. Yeah, tell me. Dennis was way better catch and shoot threes was off the dribble threes last year.

But the problem was he had nobody who'd get him open threes, you know, because no one on the maps could pass. Right. So don't kill me for this. This is like really dumb, but I'm going to go with it. No, I like it. So the Mavs are really trying to make the Rockets. You put Luca in the Hardin role, Dennis and the Chris Paul role, Matthews and Barnes and the Tucker Areza rolls, D'Andre and the Capella role. Obviously, not as good as those guys, but I think that formula works with these players.

This is interesting. And also right now on The Ringer.com, KOC just wrote a story about The Mavericks saying that they could be better faster than we anticipate. You're in Dallas. You see them all the time. are you buying the rapid acceleration and improvement of the Dallas Mavericks this year? Why not, right? I'll tell you this, the MAVs people are all in. And like, Rick normally does not sell hard on guys.

Rick has been selling very, very hard on Luca. And like, that's not a thing Rick usually does. Rick is usually the down player on young players. And he's just like, whatever, I don't care. This guy's awesome. So it's like, all right, if Rick says so, I'll go with it. Where do you think he is on Dennis Smith, Jr.? I mean, I think he likes Dennis.

I think he's happy he has a better player than Dennis. I think if Dennis is your best player for the next five years. I think as a number two option, I think it makes it a lot easier. But I mean, I think off the court him and Dennis got long pretty well last year. Like, there was surprisingly good relationship considering Rick and Young point guards. Yeah. Yeah, I was wondering about like how they coexist. And I think that point that you just made about Dennis Smith being a better two or even three.

Yeah, like I like him. He's got a lot of potential. His ceiling is high. If he can, you know, hone that shot and become sort of a poor man's version of a Russ Westbrook. that would be great where he's bringing 100 mile an hour energy to the floor

at all times when you compare him with a guy like Luca who would clearly be your better your better player. I just wonder like DeAndre,

like what he has left, how much do you get out of Dirk? Is Harrison Barnes like actually a thing? Yeah, I mean like, I'd like for the Mavericks to be better.

I just wonder. Yeah, I think with Dennis, the thing to watch this year is free throw rate. He did not draw free throw to save his life last year.

And a guy like that, a slashing guard has got to get to the line to be an efficient player. Draw some fouls, make your free throw shots. Last one on Luca for you. Rookie of the year chances for him. I know you're really, really high on Jaron Jackson. How do you feel about it? If you had to pick one of those too.

I think Luca, it's because of the role on his team. Rookie of the year is about stats and narrative. And I think Lucas is going to have stats. The Mavs will be better than they were last year. That's all it really matters. I'm with you. It's all about opportunity and role. And being present is always good,

which brings us to our next guy who was not present last year. ostensibly will be present this year. Markle Fultz back with the Sixers. He was back on the court the other day. The Sixers thumped Melbourne United. Australia's preeminent team. Fultz was fine. He had 14 points and four assists and a rebound and a couple blocks.

Yeah, but I saw he had no three point shots. Yeah, no three point shots. In fact, didn't even come anywhere close to the arc, except for when he was running past it, you know, on his way back and forth on the court. He had an elbow jumper charks where he took a point. pull up elbow jumper and made it and the crowd lost his shit. Like he was a conquering hero.

Is that, that's fantastic. I mean, like, how do we feel about Markell Fultz? How do you feel about the jumper? Is it okay if he's just building from like, you know,

the elbow and the nail out? I guess. I mean, better that than not taking shots at all, right? Like, I guess we're going to start at a low bar and work up. Yeah. I want to see him shooting threes,

though. I'd like to see him just miss them even. Like, don't be like Ben Simmons. just at least take the shot. So this was my thing. Like, okay, so it is early. This is his first, like, real live competition since last regular season.

And then he goes, and he's playing Melbourne United, and, meh, like, he doesn't really want to jack one up. And I guess, okay, you're still, like, dipping your toe into the water. It's a concern, though, I think. Yeah, like, that would have been a good opportunity, right? Like, just take one. Who cares? Like, what's the big deal?

I wonder, though, about that confidence level for him. He says that he's got it all the way back. But that elbow jumper that we were talking about, like when I saw him working out this summer with Hanlon out by L-A-X. Oh, you did? Yeah, see him shoot jumpers. And, well, the thing that they drilled the most that I saw him working on the most was that pull-up elbow jumper.

And, like, you know, when guys are in the off-season, they're trying to add certain aspects to their game, right? Like, some of the big men are using, they're going to try to add a new post move, or maybe they're trying to add a three-point shot or whatever. and they were just drilling, drilling, drilling, drilling that elbow jumper. And I wonder if that move, that spot

will be the spot that he goes to the most this season because during the season, it's hard to add another element. It's hard to step out to the three if you're not comfortable already with the three. And I wonder if that shot is going to be like his go-to jumper spot. I guess. I mean, Gons, but you know,

like NBA guys can make threes in practice. Like, I was at Lakers practice here a day and Javail was just draining threes. It doesn't really mean anything to make him in the game. So to me, like, I kind of wonder, like, if I was the six, I tell Markell, go to the G League and take 10 threes in the game. I don't even care if they go in or not. Just take them, right? Just, like, play away into shape taking threes.

Julieette mentioned this last year when she was advocating for him to go to the G League and, like, get a couple of games in down there. And I'm way out on G League and Markle Fault. It's just because, like, confidence-wise, I wonder if that would shake him more. And, like, right now they're getting him back into the mix. He's with the team. He's playing in games. started him the other night. I think if you sent him down there just to shoot,

it'd be like, oh, I've got a thing that I need to. Yeah, that makes sense. Like, headwise, I don't know. Have you talked to him before, Guns? I talked to him last season when he came back, but it was in a scrum. Okay. Did he seem like a confident guy, or do you seem kind of like? He seems like a kid.

He is a kid, right? And I think that that's part, like, JJ brought this up on his podcast last year where he he was sort of like aggravated the media last year where like in that period where Markell wasn't playing but he was at practices and he was shooting and the media was like taking videos of him in his form and like you know his free throw form and every little thing was being dissected and talked about and criticized online and JJ was like he he's just a kid what are you doing leave him alone and I'm like well part of it is the media's responsibility to do that but also I do understand like when you're frustrated by

that because he is a kid, right? Like, he's 20 years old. So I think for him to be like maybe if he was overwhelmed last year and he's got to get his confidence back, that's natural because to be the first pick in the draft and to go through all that and then to be in a market like Philadelphia where there are a bunch of fucking maniacs, like that's a lot for a kid to deal with. It's true. I mean, I will say, it seemed like in the regular season, it'll be fine because you have

like Saarich and Simmons. They'll play really fun. They'll move the ball. Then it's the playoffs, man. For the fixtures, this is the playoffs. What's going to happen? I don't know. Yeah, and you've mentioned this before when we've talked about it on the podcast.

Like, in theory, what they drafted Fultz to be is exactly what this team would love, right? Like another guy who could play on or off the ball, who could get his own shot or help others get shots, who could play a defense. He's got a little bit of a bigger body. Like, that's exactly what this team could use. They needed another guard. And if he can be even an approximation of what they drafted, that's a big win for them. I mean, he was a volume three-point shooter in college. This remains the most incredible thing I've ever seen in basketball.

I've never seen anything like it. It remains an incredible story to this day. So a couple more questions on Fultz before we move on to Carl Anthony Townsend, that you wrote about. They started Fultz the other night and brought J.J. off the bench. So they were starting Simmons and Fultz. Without

Fultz, like, finding that three-point shot, can they start him? And, I mean, like, do you like them bringing J.J. off the bench? Does it make sense? I can see it. I think it depends on Saritz and Embed. Can those guys be your floor spacers? because you know Cuncton will be the face on the floor

but you can have a really weird inverted offense with Dario spotting up and B'd spotting up and Simmons and Fultz attack in the basket I mean that might work in the regular season Yeah it might I just wonder if like what we're saying I mean I know like talk about like way too early To be you know reading the tea leaves on this

Because it's one preseason game we have absolutely no idea What to make of like It's never too early guns I know I can't we can't help ourselves But I just wonder if like I keep thinking about that elbow jumper and like if that's what we're going to see more times, like that mid-range game for him, and if it is just like Simmons and him,

you know, taking mid-range game shots and like trying to get to the rim all the time, if that works or, because to me on paper, you'd have to stagger them. Yeah, I think you would want to.

I mean, why not, right? If you have two ball-dominant, poor shooting guards, there's no reason not to stagger them. Fun times for the Philadelphia 76ers, less fun times for the Minnesota Timberwolves charks who are in the process

are trying to get rid of Jimmy Butler. If they even are at this point, who knows? Who knows? What day is today? What hour is it? We never know. I talked to show you about that earlier. But you just wrote a great piece on Theringer.com about Carl Anthony Towns

and how the Carl Anthony Towns era will start in earnest, despite Tom Tibodeau. What are you seeing from him? I mean, to me, I feel like Carl Anthony Towns not raising more of a ruckus last year is like a good sign for him as like, oh, this is a high character guy. Because he was so poorly used on both sides of the ball. it's like if I was Towns I'd be pissed So the high character thing is interesting Because Towns gets a rap for being like a little weird at times right

But you're right he didn't complain and and be like Yo Jimmy is a really good player and a veteran and he's helped Like push us into relevance and playoff status However I'm I should still be the guy right I'm still the guy aren't I Here's a stat that blew my mind so there was 28 20 point a game scores last season in the NBA. Carl Towns was second and true-shooting percentage behind Steph Curry at those 28. Wow.

He was dead last in usage rate. Dead last. It's crazy. He's like, I can score buckets at will. Give me the freaking ball, please. You know, the usage rate thing is interesting just in general. Like, if you were doing it in a vacuum and asking me to, like, I would be surprised by that. I'm even more surprised by it on a Tibbs team where he runs his, like, five or six guys into the ground.

And, like, the minutes load was there. But for him not to have the, like, attendant usage rate is. But here's the thing. So, Tim is like, I'm going to feed you in the post, but I'm going to play next to Taj or Gorgie the entire game. So it's like, well, that guy's a sudden Carl Towns's lap the whole game anyways. Every post up, he's posting up in traffic. Yeah, that's a good point.

And then on defense, too, like, so in that Rockets' Wolf series, Town's getting kill on defense, like, Town do suck on defense. He's like, I'm dropping pick and rolls against James Hardin and Chris Paul. I'm giving them three points every single time. I'm going to look terrible. I'm watching Capella switch to screen and garden three point line. So not only am I running a bad defensive scheme, it's outdated, I'm sacrificing my body to get exposed on defense. They're blaming me for my poor defense when it's really my coaching staff.

Like if I'm town, so I'm like, get out of here, man. So that's an interesting point too, because Tibbs obviously made his bones in Boston about being like a defensive guru, right? And like, I wonder how much of it is chicken and egg because you do, cat got knocked last year during the regular season, not just in the playoffs, for having lackluster defense. And I think part of it was justified. There were times when I'd look at him and be like, that's fucking shit effort. And then there are times, as you mentioned, in the playoffs where you're like, the scheme here is just off. So I wonder, can Carl Anthony, like, let's say Jimmy Butler is gone, right?

And then they finally do find a deal. And it's going to be Kat's team by hook or crook. Like, do things change anyway? Because he is still playing next to Taj and Gorey and he is still playing for Tom Tibido. Yeah, that's the thing. Because, like, people call Tibbs like a defensive guru, but he had a scheme. It's like in the NFL, like, oh, this guy is a three, five. for coach.

Tibbs is a drop, pick and roll scheme guy, flood the weak side, you know, crowd the floor. That's his scheme. But the league has moved past that

now. So he's running an outdated scheme. So that's not not even the quote-unquote guru or not. I don't think. Like,

I wonder, I mean, I was about to say, I wonder if Tibbs can change, but we haven't gotten any indication of that because he keeps... I mean, yeah.

Like, it's such a silly thing. Like, I'm like, oh, maybe this is the year Tibbs adapts. No, of course not, because like he's still

like, stockp filing all his old players. He's tripled down. He's like literally tripled down. He's like literally tripled down. He wants to do. He's playing the Roads of the two guard now.

Like that tells you where he's thinking. If, if Jimmy Butler goes, what do you think that does for Wiggins? Because two years ago without Jimmy Butler, Wiggins had at least statistically a better year. Do we think it could potentially be a bounce back year for Wiggins? Or are you like pretty much set on what you think of him?

I think it just depends who they get back for him. Like Minnesota was, I think they were dead last and threes last year. And like, Wiggins is a slashing guard, and there's nowhere to go on the court. He's playing with Teague, Butler, Tives. They're all bad shooters. They're all, like, kind of average shooters. If they don't get more floor space, what's he going to do?

Wiggins needs to be in space. He's not exactly an instinctive player who can go through tracks and traffic. He needs, like, wide open lanes to the basket. Yeah. It's going to be interesting to see what happens in Minnesota. It remains one of, like, the most fascinating storylines. I can't wait to see if they can unload Jimmy Butler. And, like, I've already talked to myself out of any chance of Tibbs,

even tweaking his system even a little bit. But I do want to see what happens with Kat. Here's my take with that. If you look at Tibbs' old players, Rose, Noah, Dang, Ashik, they're all dead in the water at like 31. So if I'm Minnesota, this is probably for the best. Let's get Tibbs out of there.

Let's save our best players by. It's a long-term build. Stop rushing things. Your best players are 22, 23. It was fun while it lasted for a year, Minnesota. Congratulations. You're back to being Minnesota again. We'll be on the lookout for that.

We'll be on the lookout for all things. Jonathan Charks on the ringer.com. What do you have in the works? What can you plug for us? I got a big yokech piece coming eventually. So I want to talk to him out in San Diego, talk of training camp. I'm excited for that.

Yeah. Jonathan Charks on the Ringer, be on the lookout for his yokech piece. Want to thank him. I want to thank Che Serrano. I want to thank Ian Carmel, who was on the program. I want to thank Isaac Lee, as always.

Be sure to check out all of our content on the Ringer podcast network, including the NFL show. We've got Maze and Clark doing their thing, GM Street, Dana C football. And of course, the NBA show,

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