The Ringer NBA Show - Warriors Add Boogie, the Lakers’ Bizarre Signings, Kawhi Destinations, and Summer League Tips Off | The Ringer NBA Show (Ep. 297)

Episode Date: July 3, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor react to DeMarcus Cousins signing with the Golden State Warriors (0:11), examine the Los Angeles Lakers’ puzzling roster additions (11:23), debate potential Kawhi Leonard trade scenarios (26:00), and discuss takeaways from the start of summer league in Utah (40:32). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. Join me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k.a. Kevin O'Bomber, A.k.a. Kevin O'Connor, aka. Kevin O'Conflict, aka Kevin O'Clymer, Kevin. Chris, I was so shocked last night when Boogie signed with the Warriors.

I think everybody was. Floored me. I think everybody was. And to hear him say it, at least to via Mark Spears, nobody else offered him? Now, I said last week, I wouldn't touch him. So I can't go back on that now.

So I wasn't given to overreaction last night when he went to the Warriors. We talked at length about Achilles and the impact of his head on whether it was West Matthews or it was Rudy Gay or it was Mario Chalmers. And obviously he is a much bigger guy than any of those. It is a very difficult injury to come back from. It takes a very long time. I think the expectation at best is maybe January. They would be able to get on the court. Obviously, with the Warriors, you can take your time because you don't need him,

and then you would have him by the playoffs. But am I crazy for thinking that when I saw the news, I thought this is a bigger move in the sense that it keeps other teams from signing Boogie Cousins than necessarily the impact he may or may not have on the Warriors. Yes, I think, I think you're right. And the reason why is because for Golden State, right, I had the sign of my article, but it's like, if you think Kevin Durant's style clashed with their vibe, just wait until they see Demarcus cousins, right? With his ball stopping, his lethargic defense, you know, his really frustrating passing, right?

He sure he'll help as a floor spacer if he's healthy and is, you know, his passing from the post and his, his rebounding and his size. Like, now they can play big if they want to. All that helps, of course.

But Golden State was already the favorite anyway. What I'm a little bit surprised by is that other teams weren't willing to gamble on him. And maybe there were teams. I think New Orleans certainly retained interest until Julius Randall became available. And then once a younger player, maybe with what they may perceive, more long-term upside became available, they snatched them up.

And I think that really is what led the market to really just cave in for DeMarcus cousins, which is ultimately what led to the Warriors being able to sign them. And the reason I say that it's the bigger part of this is that he can't go somewhere else. And let's just assume health, right, which is a very, very, I know it's a minuscule chance. But he does not fit with the way they play. I mean, it was bizarre because the reaction is like it's 2K. The reaction is like it's fantasy. But in terms of...

The NBA feels like 2K. Yeah, but in terms of like, if you think about the way they actually play, DeMarcus Cousins is perfect for whatever team wants to be the antithesis of them. The team that can slow it down, the team that can bang them in the paint, the team that can make them pay for playing a small lineup. Whereas you know they're at their best when the ball pops off the ring. him, Draymond gets it and he's flying up the court and he's throwing one pass to Curry who's banging down a three within two seconds.

Or when they're flying up and down the court, that's when they're at the peak of their powers. And so they're not a half-court team. And DeMarcus cousins is a half-core basketball player, which is great to have if you're playing against the Warriors. But in terms of for the Warriors, I honestly don't think it makes them that much better. I'm crazy. No, I think ultimately their best lineup is still with with Draymond Green and

Andre Godala and that, you know, Small Wall 5 lineup. However, I do think the added element here now is that they can play big. If they want to slow it down, when the game does slow down, if you have like a little pipsqueak guard on a switch against DeMarcus cousins after he set a high ball screen for Steph Curry or Kevin Durant, suddenly you can feed DeMarcus cousins in the low post. kidding me. Well, this is where it helps, right? Yeah, exactly. If you think about a couple of years ago, if you think about a couple of years ago, there were times where San Antonio could go big and give them problems, but most importantly, there were times when Oklahoma City who had them dead to rights

in that series when they could make them pay for being small. And it was with Sergei Baca, and it was with Stephen Adams, and it was he with Enos Canter, and they were going big at at times, and it felt like they were getting every defensive rebound, they were getting every offensive rebound, well, now all of a sudden, that advantage can go away if you're able to bring cousins into the mix. And so, I don't know. I mean, and again, I have no idea what he's going to look like when he comes back and also don't know how he fits. And also, we would be remiss if we didn't mention, this is not exactly a guy who has the most sterling reputation as a good locker room guy.

And you just had David West, you know, basically saying you have, you have no, if anybody ever knew what this team just went through. And I'm thinking to myself, well, you're about to throw Boogie Cousins in there? Yeah. You know? I'm sure there are problems where we're very, very significant compared to the teams that have only zero all-star players on it, Chris. But look, Boogie helps if he's healthy. There's no guarantee he's going to be healthy. And even if he is healthy, there's still problems with the style of play.

The part that just surprises me, Chris, is that nobody else was willing to offer enough to make it work. But, you know, it's like I had on my article today. There's one of the reasons why teams weren't allowed to that is because of the salary cap spike in 2016, when teams overspent, and now nobody has money, there's a market correction, or the teams that did have money already signed guys, or they already might be using their exceptions on players that are currently restricted free agents. There's a wide number of factors that led to this. And my initial shock, my initial anger in a way quickly faded as soon as I started writing, really. But it's disappointing that a player with an all-NBA level potential like Cousins has was able to go to Golden State.

But really, for Golden State, the stars had a line again, and they did. Doesn't it tell you a lot that the Pelicans didn't offer him? Well, yeah, I mean, I think for them, Julius Randall is younger, right? he's probably less of a handful to handle in the locker room. He didn't just tear his, he didn't just rupture his Achilles a couple months ago. He's not a 300-pound guy that's going to have to bounce back from that. Look, I don't love the Randall fit next to Anthony Davis, but I think there's a lot of logic to going with Julius Randall over DeMarcus cousins

when you consider all those factors. And yeah, I ultimately think that's why the market for cousins just disappeared. because then at that point, like New Orleans could have offered him because they were in the tax, they could have offered the mid-level exception, or rather they were over the cap. They could have offered the mid-level exception

without going into the cap. Sorry. But then if they can't offer close to the max around $20 million, nobody else is going to offer it either. The price dropped. And ultimately, I think Boogie seemed to narrow it down to Golden State in Boston.

And according to Adam Himelzbock of the Boston Globe, the sellings didn't even get a chance to make an offer by the time. they heard that he had interest in them. It sounds like this movie incredibly quickly yesterday with Boogie going to the Golden State Warriors. Speaking of Randall, I thought the Pelicans got an unbelievable deal with him.

Number one, I have no idea why the Lakers are bringing on Ray John Rondo for $9 million when they just lost Julius Randall for $9 million. I also am surprised that Julius Randall is getting a fraction of what Aaron Gordon is getting, and he is getting, and his name had come up a lot with Dallas,

they paid DeAndre Jordan $24 million. Julius Randall got nine. Like, I think the, I don't know about how he's going to fit with Davis. I don't know. But I'll tell you this, Julius Randall for $9 million is one of my favorite contracts that's been signed. And again, like, the reason why a team was able to get Randall so cheap is because there's not a lot of cap. There's not a lot of open salary cap right now. There's not much money.

So some of these remaining guys that are currently on the free agent market, like, Marker Smart isn't going to get probably a deal in the eight figures annually range. He's probably going to have to settle for seven. There's just not a lot out there. Even somebody like Jabari Parker, I wonder what the market will be for him. I wonder what it will be for Zach Levine, guys that maybe hoped or anticipated to get deals in the 15 million-ish range. they might have to settle for the non-taxpayer mid-level exception, which is around $9 million. If that, I mean, we'll see in some cases. Maybe it gets a point for some of these guys. They just sign the qualifying offer, play out the season for less money, and then hit unrestricted free agency next summer when the cap bumps a little bit more to around $108, $109 million from the 101-ish that it is now. Why on earth would the Lakers pay Ray John Rondo $9 million and not Julius Ramos?

handle $9 million. I think there's a couple of factors with Randall. There's somebody, I forget who, forgive me. Someone tweeted yesterday that Julius Randall's agent Aaron Mintz, who also represents DeAngel Russell and Paul George, might not have the best relationship with the Lakers. So maybe it had a little bit to do with that where Randall would have preferred to be somewhere else. Maybe for Randall, it also had to do with the fact that maybe New Orleans presented a better

situation for him to showcase his skills with their fast-paced style of play, the fact that LeBron James isn't going to be absorbing the ball for 90% of the possessions. Maybe that's one reason why as well for him playing next to Anthony Davis. It'll be interesting. Like I said, I don't love the fit because Randall is a below average shooter. But it's interesting for him personally, especially because of the length of the deal. Before everybody was aghast last night over Ray or over. Over.

Over. No, over. Rondo, no, Lakers. I think only Celtics fans were unhappy about that. Over cousins signing with Sacramento. Good grief. I'm going way back at that. Did you see yesterday when Boogie's agent or Boogie's manager tweeted out there's a boogie bomb coming?

When that dropped, I sent a message to somebody said it would be hilarious if it were the kings. I never thought warriors. It was a boogie bomb, all right. So he ends up going to say, before that ever happened, the talk of NBA fans was, Okay, you have this amazing moment of being able to sign LeBron James on Sunday night. And then by today, which is Tuesday, the conversation is switched to, what in the hell are they doing? What are they doing? Yeah.

Seriously. Okay, all right. So yesterday, Craig Gaines, the chief of the ringer, Craig Gaines passed along a theory to me, which was something kind of on my mind. He said it so eloquently. And that I can't repeat it in the way that he did. But the point was, and I kind of agree here is that for LeBron James and the Lakers, this isn't their year. This is really a freebie setting up for the 2019 offseason where that's when they add their other guy. That's when they pursue Kwai Leonard or Jimmy Butler or whoever it may be.

Next summer's where they add there are other stars to make a championship run, which means this year's cast of characters on the team. Really, for LeBron, I view it as a break. You don't have to play until mid-June again. Maybe the season ends in the first round. You get a long vacation or rest your body, recharge for the rest of your career to sustain success into the 2020s. I think that could be the logic behind punting

the age 34 season of a future Hall of Fame or one of the greatest of all time. Like Michael Jordan took a year and a half off and then retired again before coming back and playing with the Wizards. The rest helped him sustain his greatness. Right? I mean, he's still a good player with Washington. That is ridiculous.

How is that ridiculous? What? You get LeBron James and say, oh, we're just going to take a year off because we'll get good guys next summer? I'm not, it's not about taking a year off, dude. It's about it's about sustaining greatness. It's about the fact that if you have to get Kauai Lenter now, you've got to give up Brandon Ingram, who's 20 years old and is what a, he projects as a very versatile score. He's a really good passer at 6 foot 9 with long arms. You're giving him up.

But the alternative is, is you know what, take a slight backseat this year to this gold state juggernock that's going to win the whole damn thing anyway. And then next year, when you can just outright sign Kauai, that's when you do it. And you know what? Maybe this blows up on my favorite place, trade for Kauai by the time we're done recording this podcast. But that's the way I would think about it. These things are totally separate, though. That's on one track.

The other track is signing Ray John Rondo, Lance Stevens, and Jabal. McGee and Catoid just call well Pope. Who cares? It's all one-year deals and then they're all off next year. What do you mean, who cares? You don't have to sign those guys. Yeah, who do you want them to sign then? You just sign. You just make stupid signing so that you could say, oh, who cares it's a year anyway? But then who do you want them to sign?

How about guys that don't take away from my development of my young players? Either I am keeping the young guys for I'm not. What if those guys want more than one year? What if those guys want more than one-year deals? And they're like, you know what, I want a two-year. I'm going to take a two-year deal somewhere else. then you can't sign them because you need cab space for next summer. So you go ahead and you decide,

hey, we're going to bring in Rayjon Rondo. Even though I just drafted Lanzo Ball, we're going to bring it and we're going to re, I suppose Catavius Colwell Pope was probably a do-good package deal. So let's just set that one aside. Right? Rondo for nine million.

The nine million number is weird. And you bring in Lance? Yeah. I don't care. It's an expiring contract. LeBron's probably happy playing with Lance blowing his ear every day. Oh, my God. Javelle McGee just did a fairly good job for the Golden State Warriors in the NBA finals

during their playoff run. Signing those guys in the absence of making a trade right now makes absolutely no sense. So what I'm saying to you is I can't believe I'm defending the Lakers signing. I can't either. What in the air are you talking about? And Roger... Okay. My point is

is what are the alternatives and were those guys that are the alternatives willing to sign one-year deals? That's my point. You're signing guys that are one-year deals and you retain cap next summer, which is when you're going to make your next big move

realistically unless Kauai comes ahead of time. You think it's insanely difficult to find guys that want to... Who were you bidding against? for these guys. Okay, for Rondo, you're bidding against the Pelicans. Really? You're bidding against the Pelicans.

The Pelicans didn't do better than a one-year deal. Really? Yes. I refuse to believe that. They could have offered him the non-taxpayer mid-level exception, which is around the $8.5 million. So the Lakers outbid the Pelicans. And maybe it wasn't all about the money,

but guess what? A couple years ago, I believe it was two years ago, or last year, rather, I think Rondo had the Lakers on his list of teams to go with, but they drafted Lonzo Ball. And now you get him for one year. $9 million is a bit much, but Rondo wasn't horrible for New Orleans this year.

He had some good moments. He's on the highest IQ players in the league. He's developed into a really good locker room guy and a good leader that young players really like. It's like, look, okay, this is a bad analogy, but Amir Johnson makes $12 million when he can't really play anymore. He's really a good guy. You know, he's low maintenance.

he can come in and play. So he's partially getting paid for his personalities, the low-maintenance guy. He's okay when not playing. Rondo's partially getting paid for his leadership, his intellect,

his mentorship of young players. That's one of the reasons why Rondo gets paid. I understand. I understand. I'm talking about the way he fits with LeBron and the way he fits with Lanzo

who you just drafted second overall. I don't know. I don't know. Look, LeBron is at his best with shooters around him on the floor. And right now, there's very few shooters on the Lakers.

Okay? Brandon Ingram, who is a 68% free-throw shooter. I know he shot 39% of him three the last year, but he's still, you know, an unproven shooter. KCP, very inconsistent. Lonzo Ball, we'll see. Kyle Kuzma, very inconsistent. Lance Stevenson, never been a good shooter. Rajan Rondo, 37% from spot up last three seasons.

Not horrible. Not good, not great. There's no shooters around LeBron. I think it's going to be a frustrating season for him. I would rather play my young guys with LeBron if I'm going to wait for next season and let them get that development this season. And then we'll see. They can still get the element.

What can happen next season? Ingram can still get. Ingram and Ball and Coosbe can still all play. Rondo and LeBron are both guys that have the ball all the time. And Lance Stevenson's usage rate is like if he's on the court, you think you're So what? You think you're moving the ball around? like the Warriors. So what? What do you mean? So what? What do you keep saying? So what?

Because I want Lonzo ball to develop off the ball. I think that's a good thing for him. If it pushes him off the ball where he can spot up and cut and get lob dunks thrown to him. There's more to Lozzo's game than just pouting the ball and passing it. That's not his game. He's best at a free-flowing offense with the ball moves. And maybe it won't move with LeBron and Rondo. Maybe it won't. But I like the fact that he's going to be able to develop a little bit off ball. You think he plays with both those guys? why not? I'm sure there's going to be a situation for some

God's sake. Kevin O. Floorspacer, this is like a nightmare. I'm not telling you it's going to work. It's going to be frustrating for LeBron James. I'm telling you, they have signed guys that are literally the antithesis of what you want when you're playing with LeBron. But they're expiring contracts.

So next summer, you can go out and outright sign a max free agent. And then you get a team of LeBron James, Kauai Leonard, Brandon Ingram, Lons of Ball, and maybe you flip one of those young guys with Lul Deng's contract and you get another star. I don't know, man. I'm just saying there's ways to build a winning team.

You know what? Maybe you're wrong. Maybe they just want to fill a clown car with Lance Stevens and everybody else and this silly, goofy team that's really just a fun league pass team but actually has no title aspirations. I don't think that's their plan.

I think their plan is to have one-year deal, bills and go for it next summer and then build for that 20, 19, 20 season when maybe who knows what the landscape of the league looks like at that point? Who really knows? But all I know is that Gold State is going to win the title this year unless Houston has another series where they push at the seven. I don't like anybody else in the West has a chance to knock them off against Houston at this moment. And then the east, Boston, you know, with Gordon Hayward and Carrie Irving, they really need to be great. We're looking way too far ahead. The push is that the Lakers aren't one of the teams this year.

We just disagree because I think this is insane. And I think that one of the things is you want guys as a group to go through the trials and tribulations of going through playoff series together. And what I foresee is that when they get to the playoffs, by the way, and this could impact whether free agents really want to go there or not. Once upon a time, everybody, including both of us, thought that Paul George would end up there too with LeBron James. And that's not happening.

So who knows who would be available next offseason? that is a slam dunk. Paul George was a much greater slam dunk than Kauai Leonard. Who knows who's going to be available, but you want to be there if they are. Okay, that's fine. And by doing these weird, wacky deals that are one-year deals, you position yourself to be there. You are also putting these young players. I like their young talent.

And you are going to put them in a situation where, I promise you, by the time the playoffs come along, instead of getting those reps, you're going to see lineups with all these these one-year veterans, which has absolutely no impact on the following years. Whereas I would rather get my minutes with LeBron and my young guys and let them go through it and let them go through the playoffs together as a team and get those reps. So I want Brandon Ingram and Kyle Kuzma on the court instead of Rajan Rondo and Lance Stevenson and Jeval McGee. Okay.

Did Lance Stevenson ruin the development playing alongside Paul George? No, he didn't. Is he ruining, did he ruin Miles Turner? No. Did he ruin Victor Oladipo's new opportunity with Indiana? No. Lance Stevenson isn't some guy that's derailing careers of players on the rise. He's not.

He's just another guy. That's literally all he is. He's just another guy that blew in the bronze air. He's a meme. I'm talking about who is playing instead of who. But you're acting like the young players aren't going to play at all because Luke Walton's going to play Lance Stevenson for 30 minutes. No, he's not. No, I'd just rather have them, when it comes time, I would rather have those young players getting those reps.

And that's what you are going to get. That's what you're going to get. And in the first round of the playoffs, when the rotation is trimmed. I see what LeBron does every time. Every time LeBron says, you know what, these young guys, give me Tristan and give me Kyle and give me, you know, all these guys that have been, you know, that I'm. J.R. And so you don't get Rodney Hood and you don't get Larry Nance and you don't get these guys out on the court.

And I'm saying if it's a throwaway year anyway, give me a year of those guys getting those reps playing together. You're going to get that. All right. We'll see. You're going to get that. We're going to get that. Get him used to play with Rajan Rondo and then he leaves next year.

What in the world? What is the point? Or maybe you retain Rajan Rondo on even lesser contract. Maybe you sign them to the veteran minimum next summer and he's your backup. Or someone, who knows? You're just happy. Just admit that you're happy Rondo's a Laker so you can go over to the Staples Center and watch it. Rondo was once one of my favorite players ever to watch.

The heights of his game were exhilarating. But the Rondo of today was a reminder of what once was. It's sad in some ways. He's a total shelf of his former. You just remember this. Keep this thing recorded, Isaac. Because when the playoffs come around, we'll look at minutes logged by these veteran players versus the young players on the race.

Sure. Yep. Sure. Yeah. Like LeBron's going to say, don't play Brunnen Engram. He's not going to say, don't play him.

He's not going to say, don't play him. Brandon, okay, I think you're just underrating Brandon Ingram and Lanzel ball right now. Underrating? Yes,

because you're saying that they're going to play Rondo and, and, Stevenson for, that those guys are going to impact their minutes workload. Mark my words. When it comes to the playoffs, mark my words.

words. And I, there should, listen, if there is not a deal right now, these signings are just stupid. You mean, you mean a deal for Kauai? Yes. But what, what I'm saying is this, though, if you trade for Kauai right now, you're giving up Brandon Ingram, a piece that you can have into the 2020s, post-Lebron James. He can potentially be one of your centerpiece players post-Lebron James because he's only 20 years old.

He'll be 21 the season. and he's already flashed really, really, really impressive potential as a former number two pick. And if you give him up for Kauai Leonard, who is coming back from a major, major quad injury with no guarantees that he is ever the same guy when he comes back,

I think that's a major, major risk. Personally, I wouldn't be able to take it without full insurances from my doctors looking closely at that guy's quad, that he's going to be okay. But instead, what you can do, knowing that he wants to go to L.A. is this, wait.

And until Kauai and his inner circle with Uncle Dennis say, you know what, I am open to going somewhere else. I'm open to resigning long term in Boston or Philadelphia. A deal can't happen because right now Los Angeles can be like, you know what, we're just going to wait. Because that's what it seems like they are able to do. So if Kauai wants to go there now, he needs to change his approach. Because right now the Lakers don't need to.

I'm super high on Ingram also. I'd be nervous. I also wouldn't be bringing three main. into the fold and put them in my locker room amongst those young guys. Rhonda's not a maniac. These are all goofies. All of them are goofy. Rondo's a goofy.

Lance is the ultimate goofy. What's wrong with Javelle McGee? He's a fun-loving goofball. Yeah, right. These are the kind of guys that I want my young players learning from. Come on. And the other side of this is the lesson of Paul George is that you better be freaking careful on this Kauai stuff.

And I was thinking about this the other day. If I'm Philly, I make the push. I see no circumstance where Popovich is going to trade Kauai Leonard to the Lakers. I just, I refuse to believe he would do it. Unless it gets back a 20-year-old blooming superstar. I just don't think he would do it. I don't. I don't think he would do it with the Lakers.

The thing is, though, it's, it's R.C. Buford's decision ultimately. I mean, Pop ultimately is just the coach. I understand. I understand. Bufur could tell Pop, let's go screw if he really wanted to. I do, I just, I, here's a guy's your coaching this year, Pop. He's not going to, he's not going to set the Lakers up like that unless. I don't see it either.

And so, but I tell you this, I was thinking about this the other day. I know that there is this sentiment that if you're Philadelphia, that he wouldn't resign, right? That kind of came out. Kauai said he wouldn't resign there, whatever. But if I'm Philly, I was thinking about this the other day. if you're Greg Popovich or whoever, or let's say Popovich is talking with these guys, right? And you're not going to get what you want from the Lakers.

And you don't want to set the Lakers up for the next five years to be a juggernaut. And that's what you're doing. End of story. You're setting them up to be a juggernaut. If they sign him next offseason, then you can say, I had nothing to do with that. But let's say on the other side, and this is what I thought about. you know that they don't have anybody running the show in Philly right now and so Brett Brown has by all accounts Brett Brown and Popovich are thick as thieves yes and so if you are

moving Kauai Leonard who better to be on the phone with and it is in some way a little bit representative to me in the way it went down with Jimmy Garoppolo going to the going to San Francisco. All of those stories, all of those stories were that Belichick has this tremendous relationship with the Shanahan's, the dad and the son, and has a lot of respect for both of them. And so, A, he was going to move him out of conference, and B, he was going to move him to somebody that he liked, that he thought he could really help. And so that was the deal, right they probably could have gotten better return for Garapolo but he moved him out of the conference and he moved him to somebody he liked and trusted and I cannot help but get and who knows

maybe it'll be different but if you're Greg Popovich and you say let's see what we can get out of Philly and then if you're Philly you go listen we got a year and B's like the most likable guy going Simmons is rather likable our coach is a great guy and so we betray for him. And the lesson of Paul George is nobody thought Paul George was going to be in Oklahoma City long term. Nobody. And so, look, just get him here. We'll be in the East Finals against Boston with a chance to win it. So we're going to be playing at the highest level of basketball. He's a perfect fit for our team. So let's give up young assets in order to take a run at it. And that's actually a move that the spurs more so than what the Lakers will be willing to make.

Am I crazy here? No, I think the Brett Brown relationship with Popovich, as you said, with the Shanahan's and Belichick certainly can help facilitate a dealers trust there. They have a background. They have history together. I think that can absolutely be an element that helps. And not to mention that Kauai Leonard went to the chief medical officer of the Sixers, Dr. Glasshow, that when he was rehabbing in New York, he did it under his care.

So if the Sixers from a medical perspective can have more confidence or less confidence based on their knowledge that Glasshau may have behind the scenes. I think the flip side of this, Chris, is that maybe Kauai wants to be as far away as possible from anything Popovich related. And that being Brett Brown, I don't know for sure. They're different human beings. I would hope he's not operating with like a junior high level mindset like that. I don't want to play for Pop, so I don't want to play for Brett Brown. They're different people. in different cities with different teams.

The Brown's a different guy. But we'll see. I think there's a long number of factors that make it interesting for Philadelphia. Because I tend to side with you that the relationship with the deal could help facilitate things because of the trust. The question would ultimately be

is Kauai happy playing there in Philadelphia. And we'll see. Isn't this the lesson of Oklahoma City, though? I mean, if I'm another team, why don't I look at it and say, hey, I'll throw all manner of packages together and take my chance. Because, yeah, maybe Kauai's different than everybody else. But we just saw a star land in Oklahoma City and then sign up theoretically for the long term with them. And there was, like I said, if we go back a year, everybody thought that was a rental.

Everybody. And they were able to keep him. but Paul George is not Kawhi Leonard and Kawhi Leonard is not Paul George I understand it's also a lot of money right it's a lot of money and so I

would take my chance if anything Paul George was infinitely more likely to leave than I would think Kawhi Leonard simply because we always had set it up he had talked about the Lakers magic got fined half a million dollars for tampering on him. And here's the thing.

You could be 100% right. You might lose Kauai Leonard. He might go to Philadelphia. He might be like, you know what? We just won the title. We just beat goal in state. I'm playing with Joel Lombie and Ben Simmons and JJ Redick. I want to stay here and continue winning.

I love my role. I don't have the spotlight directly on me, but I have more superstardom because of the magnitude of this team. Maybe that's what ends up happening in Kauai stays. But the flip side, again, is this. for the Lakers, the cost is Brandon Ingram plus whatever else. And you're giving that up for again, a guy who's coming back

Oh no, no, no, hold on now. I don't think that deal's happening. I know, but what I'm saying is that that would be the cost if you're trading for him now. Yeah, I would not do that. In all likelihood, unless San Antonio lowers their standards from where they are now, because from what I understand, that San Antonio is really not seriously considering offers

They haven't made offers involving Kauai to other teams. And at this moment, it seems like they're still, you know, maybe trying to patch things up. I don't think it will happen. I still think they're going to have to deal Kauai at some point. But unless they lower their stand, lower the bar for what they would be acceptable from the Los Angeles Lakers, I think Brandon Ingram is the guy that they would need to have at this time. Let's talk about a couple of these other free agents. The biggest ones that are not off the board yet, one of which I know you're a huge fan of is Clint Capella.

restricted free agent as far as we know there's been no offer sheet submitted for him do you think what do you think happens with him well that's another guy we mentioned earlier

how not a lot of money out there I'm suddenly interested to see what he gets suddenly very intriguing do you think he does better than Gordon's 484 I guess yeah I don't know where I'd set the over under

maybe I think I'd set the over under a little bit less than that. That's 21 annually. Yeah. Maybe set the over under it like 18 and a half or something along those lines. I feel like that that feels about right. But even then there's not many teams that can get up to that amount. And maybe it'll be quite a lot less than we might be expecting.

The other one that is a restricted free agent that there's been virtually no movement on yet is Marcus smart. And we know what Marcus thought he was worth coming into this whole thing, right? He thought he's a $15, $16 million player. Yeah, a lot of guys are getting screwed. I mean, listen, Julius Randall's a year younger than Marcus, and Julius Randall just got $9 million for two years. He got 18 for two years. Marcus Smart came into this summer thinking that he was going to be, you know,

that this was cash in time. And now, you know, we're a couple days into this deal, and there has been very little reporting done on, Marcus Smart and what is to happen with him. And, you know, with the money drying up with teams around the league, you're now, like, you know, if you're, if you're, if you're Marcus Smart, you need to sign a big offer sheet with somebody. There's no big offer sheet. I know. And any player that thought there was going to be a big payday for them this summer was being misled.

Like, it was not hard to see this coming for guys, you know, last summer. I mean, kind of knew it was coming, especially over the course of the season. It became more apparent. guys aren't going to get paid. There's going to be a lot of guys who take deals that are significantly less than what they are perceived to be worth partially because of the fact that, and the opposite happened in 2016, with guys getting paid significantly more than they were actually worth during the cap spike. That's partially a cause of this. There's almost a wisdom in signing immediately, right? Yeah, like Erzine Eliasovina, getting three years, $21 million.

Well, or Trevor Riza got 15. And I'm an Arisa fan. But, I mean, the reason I got 15, right? He got $3 million less for one less year than Julius Randall. I think that's a, I look at that almost similarly as like the JJ Redick deal last year with Philadelphia, one year, 23, where they add a veteran, you know, a slightly higher cost, but it's only one year deal and they retain cap flexibility moving forward because I think Phoenix would like to be players and free agency next summer. Well, that's an interesting one that you bring up because I'm a big Redick fan. Redick signed another one year, you know, roughly $12, $13 million deal. I mean, we just saw Marcus Smart pestering him, posting him up, right?

Like, I mean, is Marcus Smart going to get more than $12 million? I get it. I get that Reddick's got a one-year deal. But, I mean, this was theoretically supposed to be the year that Marcus Smart could cash in. Avery Bradley just got roughly about that, right? If we're talking about guys that are not necessarily on the ball a ton, Avery Bradley got, you know, about the same thing Reddick did, which is about the same thing Derek Faber's got last night.

I mean, do you think that's the range that we're talking about with smart? Or do you think he's going to, the longer this thing goes, he's just going to have to take what the Celtics dole out? I think it could be the latter. Wow. I mean, I think he can sign an offer sheet somewhere, but it might not be any more than the taxpayer med-level exception. So some of these guys are going to get...

Which is $8.5 million. I should say instead of the non-taxpayer minimum of exception, I should just say the money amount because all these exceptions are funky. I mean, you're talking about so far, the offer sheets aren't even out there.

Because most of these teams are going to say, with their restrictive free agents, go get your offer, bring it back, and we'll match. But there's not an offer sheet so far on Capella, and there's not one on Jabari, and there's not one on Yusuf Nurkich,

and there's not one on Zach Levine, right? I mean, these guys don't even have, there's not one on Rodney Hood. They don't have sheets to take back to their team to say you know, match this. Same with

Exum, same with Harrell. You wonder, are these guys even going to get off her sheets from other teams? I don't know. It's an interesting year. That's for damn sure. Yeah. I mean, you look up and down and there are a ton of guys because I mean, there's still unrestricted

that are out there. But in terms of these restricted free agents, typically in years past we have seen you get signed to the big offer sheet and I get this year is different than others. But you will recall that in years past, it would be like Alan Crab got signed through an offer sheet by the Nets and they're going to have a chance to match or you would have Tyler Johnson, right? Remember when Brooklyn was in that mode and they were just signing, they were just throwing out

offer sheets to everybody driving the price up for guys. I am fascinated by the fact that at least a few. days into this, the restricted free agents don't even have the contracts to take back to their team saying, you know, I'll walk if you don't match this. That's what's going to be so interesting to see what choices these guys make. Like just to give it, this is a completely theoretical example. But someone like Zach Levine, if he was somebody that were hoping to get 20 million annually, right, if that was the hope, right? And but maybe you were willing to settle for 15, but it turns out offers are around 10. If a team offers you like a, you know, four-year, $40 million deal,

maybe you take that, you get your long-term security, you tour your ACL, you know, this is life-changing money. But on the other hand, maybe you're like, you know what, give me one year, $10 million, and then I'll test free agency next summer, where then I can get my big money deal. Maybe I wonder if some players are going to be doing that, taking that risk instead of taking the security long term. Well, and you, I'm sure you're a, where. It was one of the moments of Twitter over the course of the past week. Nick Friedel,

who covers the Bulls, said from the Bulls perspective on Levine, four years for 60 million has always felt like a preferred number to them. At 23, nobody is sure what kind of player he'll become. If I'm the Bulls, I'm not going too much higher than that because I'm still not convinced he's worth that big of an investment. Zach Levine responded with the laughing emoji.

Yeah, that was good. I mean, and that was to four years 60 million. Yeah. I heard the Kings liked him. And right now, they're one of the teams that could still, you know, theoretically sign him to an offer sheet. But again, he's not going to get an offer sheet worth that much. Because guess what?

You're not bidding against anybody. So you don't need to give that much. All right. We do need to, we're going to be at Summer League coming up at the end of the week. We do need to make a couple of comments on that. First of all, Kevin. Boogie Cousins is, he's really on my bad list because, with his domination of the news last night,

everyone overlooked the fact that the second coming is playing for the Memphis Grizzlies. And that is Jared Jackson Jr. who knocked down eight threes in his debut last night in Summer League. The first of the Summer League games, which is the Utah Summer League that was going on last night. He ends up with eight threes,

29 points, and the Grizzlies ran all over Atlanta last night in that game you also had as the aforementioned kings I tell you this their Summer League team is fun

they got Swipe of the Fox and they've got Swipe of the Fox I like how you went full nickname there do you know that you know speaking of that do you know for

years you know there's some of those moments where You feel like something is so obvious you should have known. And then for whatever reason, you never put two and two together and then something hits you. And you're like, oh, it happened to me about three months ago. And I never mentioned this. So you know his name on Twitter, Swipe of the Fox, right?

Yep. Okay. Well, my daughter watches Dora all the time. All the time. And I heard I was working on some stuff. and it was on in the background, and I heard her, she always says, swipe or no swiping, swiper no swiping. And I never, I don't know why I never like, I don't know.

Like I always thought of, like, I just saw his name, but I'm like, this dude is really named after, made his Twitter handle named after Swiper the Fox on Dora. It never, like, it never dawned on me. But she always says, Swiper, no swiping. And basically Fox just goes around stealing crap from him all the time, right? on the cartoon. But anyway, they got him. Frankie Mason. Door is good stuff, man. I used to watch that

when I was like 10 years old. I think that's when it came out. Is that right? Yeah, I think came out 2000 when I was 10. So I only got maybe a year out of it, but still it was a good time back then. It's good to hear that it's still on the air. It's great news. It's still back. So she's still exploring. So

they got Deeran. They got Door the Explorer fans right here. Yeah, they got Frankie Mason. They've got a... Remember when she takes up the map? Right? It's the map. Sorry.

It's the map. It's the map. Man, I'm telling you, I mean, I've seen a thousand episodes. Yeah. It's good stuff. He's the map. So, obviously, Marvin Bagley, who baptized poor Mo Wagner last night, ringers on. Oh, I saw that.

Ringers favorite. Poor Mova. Yeah, ringer favorite. The other one that I was happy to see last night, out running around, made a couple athletic plays, hit a three or two. was Harry Giles. Yes. Obviously couldn't play.

His one year in college. Then they took him pretty high in the draft, you know, first round, but he was a dropper because of his injuries. And then, you know, insignificant first year. And so now you get to see him in Summer League now. And I am, he would be a great, great story. Kevin, I will tell you two and three years ago,

my friends that cover high school basketball, he's all they talked about. People comped him to Chris Weber. That's who they thought Harry Giles was, that he was the next Chris Weber. He was that spectacular. And no one thought that the other players in that class were better than him.

Like it was rather unanimous. And obviously he was crushed by injury, high school college, and then now he's on the trek back. And so watching him make a couple athletic plays, knocked down some shots last night, I was super, super happy for him because he is one of those where it could very easily be completely promised unfulfilled. But who knows, right? Who knows? He was so highly thought of for so long.

And so, I don't know. I like it as a story. And I hope he does good. And I thought he looked pretty good last night, honestly. Talented kid, for sure. Yeah, I only saw highlights of last science games I was writing after the boogie news

And wasn't able to catch the games Earlier in the day But Jaron Jackson Hitting those threes Was really encouraging This was one game He's not gonna hit eight threes every game But he hit, he's not

He hit like a step back Really fluid That was beautiful That was the heat check Yeah, that was beautiful That was the heat check Had the Steph Curry shot From the logo

And did a little wiggle afterwards Well and it was all picking It was pretty much all pick and pop Yes He sat in the high screen and he's kind of flaring out and he's nailing those threes. And, you know, we have now seen rookies contribute much more, even to good teams, much less bad teams,

over these last couple of years than we had previously. And I have thought that, hey, this is a kid that, you know, he can be outstanding, but it's going to be a couple years before you know. And then to watch him last night, If you can knock down pick and pop threes, you can play and contribute quick. You know what I mean? Especially because the defense is crazy. He's, I mean, the 7-6 wingspan is a 7-6 wingspan, especially if you can move your feet.

And so he's a key cog that anybody can throw in on defense, but you kind of worried, hey, how far along offensively are you? And obviously, again, you're not going to shoot 90% from three. but if you can shoot a pretty decent percentage, you're a dangerous player nowadays in the NBA. For sure. And same thing with Harry Giles, right? It's just one three. Just one. That's all. However, last we saw him at Duke and in high school, he was somebody where he shot 50% from the free throw line.

You could see the makings of a guy who could become a shooter, but it wasn't there. It was just theoretical. And if he's able to turn that into a reality, It changes things for him. I mean, right now, and last year's draft guy, in the 2017 draft guy, the comps for him were Amari Stademeyer and Julius Randall, those are the top two comps. And that's because of his ability as an explosive rim runner

because of his elite rebounding upside. That's the main reason why. It's a screening threat. But if he's able to extend his range from mid-range to three, we'll see. I just need, he just needs to stay healthy, Chris, ultimately. Yeah, I told you that, I know you said you were having to write last night, so you didn't get to see all that much. The other guy that stood out in Summer League last night was Trey Young, but not in a good way.

Yeah. And that's either business play. And it was a disaster. I mean, he could have killed a fan with one of these air balls. It wasn't even close. Yeah. And, you know what I mean? Like, I have always said, being.

amazing at Summer League is not by any means there's been stories over the years it's not the end all be y'all right it's usually not sometimes it it translates right there are times listen we watched Kyle Kuzma and we watch

Donovan Mitchell and we watch Jason Tatum we watch all those guys in person last year and came away going oh God like you could see it you could tell and then sometimes guys that go off in Summer League it maybe doesn't translate, right?

Their game is more built for that type of a game that they're playing in Summer League and things are going to get a little tougher. The reason I would be scared about the Trey Young thing is because he's built for it. I mean, I've seen it over the years. I saw Josh Selby be the king of Summer League.

I saw Russ Smith out of Louisville killing it in Summer League. I've seen a bunch of little guards that are Jackers. Nate Robinson has it. his damn number retired. Like, that's exactly when you should be at your best. And it was rough.

Maybe it's just a debut. It's his first game. You had to, if you didn't see it, you don't know what I'm talking about. I saw the clips. I saw the highlights on YouTube. I saw the missing the shots.

I saw Wobb put him up on Twitter. He was horrific. Four of 20, one of 11 from three. He made some nice passes. But, I mean, overall, it was a disappointing performance. And this is like I wrote about right after the draft. It took huge Cajonas by Travis Slank to do what he perceived as the right decision.

I wouldn't have done it. I would have taken Luca Dant, for what it's worth. But it's going to be rough for Trey Young as a rookie. It's going to be really, really rough. There's going to be more of these games over the course of the season. And there might be a lot of him, a lot of these games, okay? It doesn't mean he's not going to turn into a good player long term. We'll see what happens.

I'm skeptical. of his upside. I wasn't quite as high on him, clearly as the Hawks were, but there's shooting talent there, and we would be silly to overreact to his first summer league game. Call me silly because Jared Jackson is a god. Yes.

And Trey Young is, like, I mean, I mean, I think you and I both would have taken Jared Jackson ahead of Trey Young. 100%. Yes, being amazing, but here's what I'm going back to what I say,

being amazing is not the end-all be all. if you're really bad in Summer League. It's one game though. When you're really bad in Summer League, at least my experience has been, if you can't stand out in Summer League, then there will be examples. But I'm saying by and large,

they are the aberration. If a guy looks like he stinks in Summer League, it's usually a bad sign. Yeah, but it's one game. I get it. It was 20 shots. I get it. 20 shots.

I know. He hit the rim. He hit the rim. Four of them. But it's still just one game, Chris. That's it. I understand, Kevin. And this is coming from somebody.

Just keep an eye on it. Keep an eye on it. I am keeping an eye on it. I think I've heard a whole friggin' article like 2,000 words about Trey Young is the big risk in this draft. All right. I would not have drafted Trey Young maybe in the top seven or eight. And they traded the third pick.

Luca Donchert, that thing is going to be a star for years to come to trade down for Trey Young. I get it. I don't, I listen, you know, I have, I don't know what the kid's going to become. He could come out in the next game. And he could go, you know, 11 for 15. And it's like, oh, there's the Trey Young we saw at Oklahoma. And then it's going to be like, the next step.

Like, all capital letters on YouTube. Let's be fair. Tre Young, 35 points, 8 of 11 from 3, the next Stefan Curry, question mark, exclamation point. Well, there's a thing. And it could very well happen. when he doesn't have to go against Javon Carter. Hey, yo. Javon Carter, boy, he is fun, isn't he?

He had him shook at Oklahoma. So, I mean, he was probably like, oh, shit. Now I get out of college, I got to see this guy immediately. Yeah, like, Javon Carter is like already the best, best defensive point guard of the NBA. Like, this is a bullshit, man. Can I at least have some fun at Summer League? I loved your interview on your show with Javon Carter. Like, that is like just quintessential Javon Carter.

The answers he was getting. Absolute best. He's the best. Anyway, so I'm super excited. All right, last thing, because we're going to be in Vegas coming up this weekend. Front row seats for Marvin Bagley's assassination of Dianne. Who are you? All right, give me three guys that you are most excited to see what they look like in Summer League in their respective uniforms. Yeah, Chris, I'm excited to see Mo Bamba, especially after that clip of Joe.

and be just dunking all over him, just completely overpowering him. Because I like Mo a lot. Third-ranked player on my board will be interesting to see how he fits on Orlando. I think for Knicks fans, I'm very excited for them to watch

Kevin Knox in a Knicks uniform for the first time. That'll be very, very intriguing to see how he performs. And as for some of the lower guys on the board, Eli Akobo from the Phoenix Suns, fell to 31st.

I heard it was partially because he wasn't willing to be draft and stashed. He's ready to play now. he's coming over to the NBA. It'll be intriguing to see how he plays for Phoenix. I like a co-bow a lot. I'm ranked 18th.

I think he was one of the real sleepers in this year's draft class. All right. So, and we're going to have a ton of guys to be able to watch while we are out there. I will tell you, Kevin, that there is one guy of which I am more interested than the others, just because in order to not strike out completely with one, of my nine guys that I liked in the draft. And obviously, I tried to take guys later in the draft that weren't predicted to go very high in order to make, you know, you can't just put lottery guys in there. These are the guys that I think are going to be good.

The only one that did not get drafted by a team was Raleigh Alkins out of Arizona. And he is playing with Toronto's and I need him to be good in summer league. Because otherwise, his Joker may be playing in France. Yeah, Rale's a good kid and he wants to be a really good player. But we'll see how his game developed. He's one of those theoretical guys. I talked to an agent and then I talked to a couple teams after the draft happened. And of course, I was like, hey, could anybody have told me this before?

I put him in the article. I was told the foot got flagged. Interesting. He did have that injury last year at Arizona. Interesting. I was told the foot got flagged. Interesting. So, I don't know.

For what it's worth. Chris Vernon citing sources. For what it's worth. Right? Because I was like, what the hell? Yeah. You can get drafted. Right.

And so it's a good spot in Toronto. It is. I just pulled up your article. You said you want to mark a smart, Tony Allen or PJ Tucker type of player. When you need a big play in a game, I can see that with the Alkins. I can too.

We'll see. We'll see if it pans out for him. Well, and they've done really good at developing their young players. Toronto. So I thought a good spot. I thought a good spot. Great for him.

No doubt. I mean, if you got a chance, this is your chance. And so being that he's the only one in that article that didn't get drafted, I've got one undrafted guy, I'm going to be keenly aware of how he performs. I think these guys like him, this is their chance because it's not only an opportunity with the team that you've signed on to play Summer League with. You're getting to showcase yourself for every other team that's there. No doubt.

It can be a blessing in disguise for some guys. And we'll see if that's the case for Raleigh or not. Yep. Kevin, I cannot wait. I guess I'll see you on Friday. And the next Ringer show will be able to be doing it in person live in Las Vegas, Nevada. Yeah, Chris, I'm so excited to see you this week flying in on Friday. And then Saturday afternoon, we get Marvin Bagley versus DeAndri Aiton.

I'm so excited to see Aiton just smack around Bagley. It's going to be fun. Oh, good grief. Are you a, are you a gambler? No. Not at all. I did not gamble once last year in Las Vegas, no. Have you ever gambled?

At a casino? Yeah. Years ago, I went on a little trip to Foxwoods Casino and went there. But again, I barely didn't bet much. There's just never been a temptation in my life. I used to like doing football cards during my teen years. I used to love doing fantasy football. But that's about it.

No. Why? Are you going with like stacks? You gamble a lot, Chris? No comment No comment No comment No lie

The first night The first night I got there You walk through a casino And I saw half the NBA there And I'm like oh my gosh They're making some money tonight You know that's the funny thing about That's the really funny thing about Summer League

It's like it's just weird The amount of NBA people you see Of walking on through casinos To go to their dinners or whatever else There's so much house happening. All 30 teams they're here this year. Well, the other thing is you can't hide. I mean, I'll say you this, you know, you got to stand up to throw dice and

craps. I'll leave out the team. I saw one whole damn team take over a craps table and they're like, they had three, seven footers. So, I mean, you ain't hiding from anybody. Oh, for sure. Yeah. No hiding when you're chucking dice. Put it this way. Like, it's probably the time of the year where

Las Vegas, the average height of the human in Las Vegas is at its tallest. Oh, listen, it is unbelievable, too, that we do this. And an executive once upon a time that I covered years ago said it is truly unbelievable. He's like, we got these kids

and we run them through the symposium, Ricky's symposium and all this kind of stuff. And he's like, but we draft them. And then two weeks later, right when they're getting their money, you know, for the first time, he's like, we put them in Las Vegas for two weeks.

Right? Like, it's unbelievable of all the places in the world right you got young guys that have got their got money for the first time and they get to go right

to Vegas so shout out to all the young players going to Vegas for the first time and have to stay away you are certainly thrown into the Lions Den immediately when you are your first moment of NBA life right I guess in a way

it's like you know some people to teach children to swim they Drop him in a pool. Just drop him in the pool. Kevin, I'll see you this weekend. Thanks, brother. I'm looking forward to it. Chris, have a good one.

It's going to do it for another ringer NBA show. If you dig what you're here and go give us a rating and review on iTunes. And we will talk to you next week, live from Las Vegas.