The Ringer NBA Show - Warriors-Cavaliers Collision Course and the NBA's Best Podcast (Ep. 116)

Episode Date: May 25, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon and Chris Ryan discuss LeBron's Game 3 illness (6:00) and his affinity for deferring (10:00), the Cavaliers' struggling defense (18:00), the best players on the Cavaliers and Warriors (23:00), Lonzo Ball on the Sixers (28:00), and the best TV shows to fill time before the Finals (36:00). Then, writer John Gonzalez joins to discuss Richard Jefferson, Channing Frye, and Allie Clifton's in-season podcast, 'Road Trippin' With R.J. and Channing' (45:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

NBA show brought to you today by Miller Light is brewed not only for great taste, but also to be less filling. It only has 96 calories, so it's not going to fill you up. It's brewed to be enjoyed from tip off to the final buzzer. It's the original light beer and has been since they first showed up Corkside in 1975. So is also brought to you by the NBA Awards on TNT, live from New York on Monday night. June 26, the NBA Awards begin at 9 p.m. Eastern. and will be hosted by Drake. The awards are officially changing this year.

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There will also be new awards that the fans have a chance to vote on, like Best Style, Game Winner of the Year, Dunk of the Year, and Assist of the Year. Remember, don't miss out on the NBA Awards on TNT, live from New York, June 26, at 9 p.m. Eastern. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Verde, and joining me today is Chris Ryan. You can hear Chris Ryan on the watch podcast, and you can read him on the ringer. where he is a writer and an editor a little bit later in the show. We're also going to be joined by John Gonzalez, who did a big profile on an NBA podcast that Richard Jefferson and Channing Fry are doing.

But right now we go to Chris. What's up, Chris? What's up, man? How you doing? So is everybody rooting for, do you think we can all as NBA fans unite and decide, unless you hate the Celtics or unless you really love LeBron and the Cavs, we have to root for the Celtics tonight, simply so basketball doesn't end for a week? Yeah, I would like to see a challenge, but only if it's a real one, right?

Because I actually do care a lot about what happens in these finals, and I want it to be as even as possible. So I don't want to go into the finals with Kyrie with some weird ankle injury that he got in game six chasing after Terry Rozier. Like, I almost do want these guys to have like the HBO 24-7 training montage leading up to the big fight rather than this like slap boxing with the Celtics. Oh, that's fascinating because we think that it's inevitable. that the two are going to face each other, but the worst thing that could happen at this point is somebody getting nicked up and that series not becoming what it could potentially be.

Yeah, I don't want any asterix. You know what I mean? Like, I think this series has actually been cool because it's, I think Kevin Love is playing so well in this series that it's like getting me excited for the prospect of these teams clashing. But I don't want anybody, you know, the first time you see LeBron like rub his wrist

or Kyrie like wince. You're going to be like, God damn it. Now it's just like, we got to wait for a fourth one. for this to be a real fight. So I just want them to be two healthy transformers colliding on the landscape against each other. And saw them both wins in the last game. And we had two of those moments with both Kyrie and Love,

where Kyrie went down on the baseline and Love went out over by the bench, and it looked like, oh, no. Yeah. And then the other thing with the Cavs is that you just have that ticking clock on, like, when they're going to get irritable with each other, like game three with LeBron or not even irritable, but when they're just going to have some weird moody, like we didn't feel like playing tonight kind of moment.

And I just want to avoid that. Like if they want to do that against the Warriors, I guess that's what they're going to do against the Warriors. But don't do it against Boston and prolong things. So now you've made me think about this. So we're not all rooting for the Celtics tonight? I'm not. No, let's get to it.

And also, like, I'm fine with the time off, man. You know what I mean? You don't mind. I live in Los Angeles. Let's do it. I'd love to get out at house. I need basketball at night. What else am I going to do?

I guess I'll watch the Stanley Cup. Cup playoffs. Yeah, whatever. I'll just go watch last year's finals. The Holds True Player, brought to you by Miller Light, is LeBron James. All right, Chris, let's talk about LeBron. All right, let's get to what took place in that game three, which has been the great mystery with LeBron. And there are some that have just said, hey, just had a bad game. And then there's others that like, what was going on with them? Or maybe he's tired. Like, anytime somebody has a bad game, then you have to come up with, especially when they have the greatness of LeBron, you have to come up with, you have to come up with,

reasons. And then it turns into, because we've got time on our hands, the Jordan never did that. It's all right. Everything about that game three and his bad game is made a way bigger deal. Richard Jefferson went and said that Darren Williams had a stomach bug and LeBron had a stomach bug and that's why he had no energy. That's why he was lethargic. So now does game three have an asterisk next to it and we go game three, that's what happened. LeBron was sick. Yeah, I think the thing with the LeBron game three is that it's fun to speculate within reason. Like, you don't want to go to, we really lost it back when he was on Cleveland and all the Delante stuff and like all the little reasons of why he did or didn't. And it's fun to have conspiracy theories about him.

I think that the issue ultimately, whether or not he was sick or not, is that the only thing LeBron is still streaky at is his shot. Like everything else about his game is pretty rock solid. And his shot was really falling throughout most of these playoffs. We ran a piece on the site basically about how he was playing like the perfect Houston Rocket for a lot of these playoffs, like where he was hitting his threes, he was getting to the hoop. And his three kind of just abandoned him. And I think he shot it a few more times and it wasn't falling. And it freaked him out a little bit.

And we knew, though, that that was not going to stand. He was not going to be the best three-point shooter in all of the playoffs. I mean, there was a portion of time where he was ahead of like the Curries and the Durant of the world. in three point percentage, which that's just not him anyway. There's going to be some regression to the mean. Yeah, I mean, he always has historically added something to his game, usually not in the playoffs, like when he reviews it. And if he ever decided, like, if he ever just became like a great three-point shooter,

it wouldn't necessarily surprise me if the end of his career was him as sort of like a stretch four. But I still think that, you know, it was basically a matter of he was probably supremely confident, overconfident and he's shot for a little while there and it kind of abandoned him in game three and then that kind of froze him up. The one thing that I do like to

can we can go into conspiracy corner for a second. The one thing I do like is sometimes if Kyrie or love or whoever is hot in the beginning of games, LeBron has that little bit of Kobe to him where he's just like, then you do it.

Fine, then you do it. And it kind of just like defers to them And it's not like mean or cranky. It just almost seems like he'll just go, okay, I'm just, I'll facilitate for you guys if you're so hot then. You are a hater, man. No, no, no, no. I love the run.

But that's like a little part that he does, though, sometimes. Like if Kevin Love scores 15 points in the first quarter, he's like, oh, I guess Kevin loves best power forward of all time. Wait, hold on. Now, the other side of that would be he is a great team basketball player that recognizes that other guys have it going and so therefore he defers absolutely absolutely but there were definitely points in game three where you're like all right lebron now okay like you can you can do it now go ahead you know what you're in a stomach bug chris is that what we're doing is we're just taking

dr darren williams for his word well you know what's weird is at least it is a legitimate reason right a legitimate reason is the guy was sick if somebody said what am i going to say like what about, no, he wasn't, no, he wasn't sick, right? He just doesn't have the heart of Michael Jordan. Yeah, I have to accept that they say, okay, here's this bizarre game, and here's what happened, and the guy was sick, then I do have to accept that. I mean, by the way, we still have not, we're two, three weeks removed. We still haven't gotten a good reason on the Hardin game.

Right, exactly. His cold or whatever. I mean, it's like, it's been a strange playoffs for stuff like that, because when you think about how you're like, oh, so Isaiah Thomas has been carrying a pretty significant hip injury, along with also needing oral surgery and the personal tragedy goes through. Like, we find out these things after the fact, and they completely color what we think of their performances. I would be, you know, they didn't say anything about Lamarcus Aldridge's knee, which was like

a rumor that his knee was bothering him, and that was, I don't think they would have beaten the Warriors, but we were just, man, like Lamarcus's wash. Well, it's like Lamarcus might have had a knee injury that we just didn't hear about. It's too late on the Hardin thing for me. Oh, yeah. They needed to come out way earlier than that. There's an amount of time that has elapsed where I will no longer accept excuse. Yes, yeah.

But it is weird. I thought if I could have bet, I don't know, what amount of money I would have bet. Within 72 hours we would figure out, and it might be cockamamie, but we will get some reason as to why James Hardin was like that in the game. I mean, for God's sakes, we go back in time, and you saw what the spurs were without Kauai Leonard. Yeah. And they beat the shit out of the rockets on their home floor without Kauai Leonard in an elimination game. And one of the weirder games where even the people in the Houston arena seemed to be like, yeah, this ain't going to happen for us tonight. You know what I mean?

There had that weird vibe in the beginning of the game where like as soon as it started, nobody in Houston was like, this is the closeout game. We got to go nuts and just like drown it out. It was just like, huh. Oh, I guess this isn't happening for us tonight. And I get that it's just one game and it's without Kauai. You know what I mean? Like you can rally around it for one game, but then every reality all sets in. But still, that team is a shell of itself without Parker and Kawhi Leonard.

And there's no way you can lose by that margin. I still want a hardened excuse to come out, even though enough time is elapsed that I will no longer accept a real one. Well, maybe he'll tell us that the MVP awards or the NBA Awards. He's going to stand up there and he's going to be like, you guys, you know I had a cold, right? That ain't me. I mean, come on. That was so unlike me. You knew something was going on, right?

Yeah. All right, so the Warriors clearly are sitting back with their legs kicked up, waiting for the calves to end this thing. I am one that wants – I do not live in Los Angeles. I want basketball to stay on for as long as possible. So I will be wearing a Larry Bird jersey tonight rooting on the Boston Celtics, just hoping that we at least get a game six out of this because with the quickness that the West was over,

And I do wonder, you made the point about there not being a level of stress with the Warriors. And so if quick work can be made of the Celtics on the Cavs front, you do get kind of an uninjured, at least going into it, evenly matched series where we're not going to say, oh, well, they just had to play six games instead of four games, right? I mean, that being said, I find this particular, if we do look forward and everybody is projecting those two teams playing, I find this very odd because neither of them, in my estimation, have been stressed out at all. And I think we would have learned a lot about the Warriors if Kauai wasn't injured because they would have gotten pushed and they could have gotten stressed out during that series. Whereas I don't think we think that the Cavaliers, even if they were to lose tonight, they'd just close it out in six. I think that's pretty well what everybody thinks. but what do we make of the two great teams going to match up

and usually they're a little battle tested it feels like neither of which have been battle tested at all in this yeah I kind of have a feeling like assuming that these two teams are the ones we're going to see in the finals that it's going to be if the calves are to want to win it's got to be a little bit more like the first matchup between Warriors Cavs two years ago than last year where I want to see the Warriors have to win multiple close games because I do think that they,

I don't know what their average margin of victory was over the course of the year or what their record is and games decided by like five or seven points or last or whatever, but I do feel like they are a team that turns the fire hydrant on and then surfs the west rest of the way. And they just execute their stuff so well that it almost happens in a vacuum. And I kind of want to see what happens when they're up to, two with two minutes or down three with five minutes or whatever it is. If the calves can keep it close and start turning that game into a coin toss,

just like they did when they just were like, it's LeBron bully ball, we're going to dribble out the shot clock and just grind. And they got a couple of games that first year that way. I would be curious to see, now that's not really the stuff that the calves play now, but I don't know if the calves can go shot for shot with the Warriors, no matter how good the offense is for the Cavs. The other thing is what happens when the Warriors get punched in the mouth.

Right. Because they've never, they haven't gotten punched in the mouth. Like the only chance we had was that game one against San Antonio. And you saw the way that they responded. But I just totally discounted because Kauai was out. Like he literally went out and it was like a 20-0 run. Yeah. And so we don't know if Kauai stays in that game.

What happens? Do they make a huge run? Or do they just stay? They end up getting beat by 20-something points on their home floor. And, you know, the Portland couldn't do it. it because there was no Nerkich in that series. In the next round, Utah was without George Hill, I think three of the games. And I don't know if George Hill would have made that big of a difference anyway, but he was banged up.

And then obviously Kauai. So we don't, like, if Cleveland can punch them in the mouth, it will be the first time that we have seen it and then see how they respond to it. Because it's pretty bizarre. Usually, like last year, they got take, that was a war against. Oklahoma City, and the Cleveland one, there was a moment at least where Bismack Bianbo was grabbing 50 rebounds a game, and the Toronto series was way more competitive than anything we have seen out of them this year.

Yeah, and I think that the problem with this, though, is like the way we're looking at this is like, well, if they get punched them out. And a couple of days ago, we were talking about how often it seems like even in these blowout games or games that they're obviously going to win, Traymond still loses his temper and gets teed up or like gets irate at something and all the reasons that we're looking for of why golden state might struggle kind of don't have that much to do with basketball because if it's just basketball I just think that they're just they're better they're just better they were really great last year and they added Kevin Durant so it's like as a basketball for

basketball it's just impossible to imagine even though we've seen over and over again that the impossible is possible in sports these last 18 months or whatever but if it's just basketball, if they don't get vexed by, like, if Draymond doesn't get tossed from a game, then I just don't think the Cavs have a chance. And I just wish if we go back in time that it would have been, even if Portland would have been healthy, but even if we could have gotten, you know, one of these series

where maybe, let's say Clippers never lose Blake and their guys, and they can get into a series where they can win a game or two against the Warriors. I think the one that we were robbed. of this year was the Rockets one. The Rockets one. Because I think that if you had a 53 point attempt Rockets team hitting at any kind of clip like that, you know, going 22 for 50. Oh, sure. It's random enough. It just gets really interesting. You know what I mean?

Yeah, it's random enough and you've got to drop 100. If they score 120, you've got to get 121 to win the game. And to have Beverly out there nipping at Steph's ankles and just and getting up in people's faces like that, I think it would have been much more interesting. To me, like, Portland never had a chance even with Nurkich. And Utah is a really nice team but doesn't have the firepower to stay with the Golden State.

When you look on the other, and you look on the other side, Chris, with the calves. I mean, here's the thing. We said they clearly coasted at the end of the year, or hell, for 45 games. They were like 23 and 23 to end it. But we said, we kept saying, the defense is not good. Like, teams statistically do not win with this kind of a defense. And we've got a really good sample size. And, like, I remember post-all-Star break, they were, like, at the literally bottom of the NBA.

And they weren't tested by Indiana. They gave up some points to Indiana, by the way. And they weren't really tested by Toronto. And then Boston, kind of, right? We've seen, I thought they got a – I heard Brian Winhorse say the other day. like there was some kind of number of that Boston got it was an extraordinary amount of wide open and or open threes as they are calculated right and tie lose said something where it was like basically the Isaiah less Celtics really confused us because they were running stuff that we hadn't seen all year and I think that you know they were talking today they're about you know they doubled the best player on their opposing team the last few series and they didn't really have anybody to double on the Celtics now. So basically it's coming from all angles and they don't really know where to look.

And so, well, and guess who that sounds like? The Warriors, what are you going to do? You're going to double one of them? I mean, you're out of your damn mind. And so here's the thing. How do we know, is it possible that that Cavs defense is still really susceptible? Yeah. That that's really us big time.

They have wiped through the Easter conference playoffs. But everybody just said, oh, they flipped the sweep the swing. which, well, what happens when they face something super high octane? You know, that's when it's going to show up that a lot of these guys can be unplayable defenders. And I don't know. I wonder they are not, you would not say outside of LeBron, you would not say nobody is comparing Kyrie Irving to Joe Dumars or Kevin Love to Dennis Rodman.

And then you've got, look at their role guys, like the Corvers of the world and the Channing fries and they don't have a lot of defensive prowess guys on that team. And you know who does? The Warriors. Because it's not like the calves are going to get free looks, man. It's like that's the problem here is that while the calves were like, well, we'll flip the switch, we'll flip the switch and the defenses of work and progress, the Warriors don't have that problem.

Warriors are top five both categories, right? I mean, like that, I mean, this is that they are the template of a champion. Who's big three would you rather have? I would rather have the Warriors. Curry, Durant, and I guess we'd say Clay, I actually might take Draymond. Either way, you have two elite defenders in that group because Durant's playing out of his mind on defense. And on the Cavalier side, who's the best defender there at LeBron when he's engaged? Kyrie is a turnstile and loves working hard, but is not anywhere close to being a plus defender, right?

But you also had to take into consideration, right? it's kind of like the, it's almost like the snake draft, right? Right. Where you get the number one guy and then you come back around and yeah. But the number one guy is so. Let's do that. Let's draft those guys. But the number, but here's what I'm saying. The number one guy is so much better than the rest.

Yes. That's what I'm saying, right? Like I get Mike Trout and you may take whoever you want at number two, but Mike Trout is just way better than everybody else. So if you were going to draft those six guys, if you were going to draft LeBron, Kyrie, love, Curry, Durant, and let's just say Clay, just for the hell of it, right? How would the order go? LeBron, Durant, that's easy. Yep.

Curry 3. Uh-huh. And would you take- I think I think I'd take Kyrie and love over Clay. Just based on these playoffs where Clay's been kind of out to lunch or just because you just get more out of them? Yeah, I think that both of them. I think Kyrie is as unstoppable as there is offensively in the league. When he is at peak of powers, he's totally unstoppable.

And he can do it all himself, right? Like he can do it off the bounce. Clay's got to have somebody set him up. You're not throwing it to Clay where it is an uncreated shot. And he's just, when is the last Clay Thompson dunk or layup you even remember? It's hard to remember these, right? Well, he's had the thing where, I mean, not only does he just seem out of when he's just forgetting what he's talking about in mid-sentence in some of these press conferences.

But the thing that I think we were worried about when Durant first arrived, where it was like, oh, Clay's going to really not get the touches that he wants, as the playoffs has gone on, it's like been a delayed reaction of like, and now we're seeing Clay marginalized. And I don't want to say that, listen, they're all amazing players. Yeah. Okay. I love all of them as players.

The other thing is with love, love has changed a bit in perception, at least in my perception, in that on offense, he can still go down to the block if he needs to. But he can be a lethal three-point shooter. While he also does one of the most important things in basketball, which is he is a great, not good, great rebounder. Like he had 17 rebounds the other night, and the last line of defense is being able to get the ball back. He is a great rebounder, and usually that is sacrificed if the guy is a great shooter.

And if they want to run. Look at these other stretch fours, right? The Ryan Andersons and guys like this. Or Serge Abaka. Sure, they help you stretch your offense. But on defense and on offense, these guys are not killing anybody on the board. And his rebounding is going to matter a lot more because I feel like teams are really throwing a lot of bodies at Tristan right now. So he's going to have to do the cleanup there if the calves want to stay competitive on the glass.

The thing also about love that's my favorite part of his game is. the outlet passes. Oh, for sure. I don't know if you saw the interview the other night when they put the headset on him on TNT, and Shaq and Charles talked to him about how they just can't, they are mystified that he is able to do that. Yeah, I mean, he's probably the best quarterback in Cleveland right now. Well, he said in that interview, that's funny. He said, and especially the day after Brock Osweiler said what he said, how dare you slam him. I know, man. The tape is there. The tape is there. Watch the tape, idiot.

Hey, Brock, we all watch this, okay? We don't need the tapes. We remember. You know how much money you lost everybody? Tremendous amount, Brock. All right, enough. All right, so on the outlet passes, he said two things. He said, A, his parents wouldn't play football, and that was his way of being a quarterback.

And he said, and I've got the best receiver in the NBA. And he said, number two, when he was little and he was trying to shoot it up high, and he was trying to shoot it from far away. That's how he shot the basketball. And so he practiced so often with that two-hand push thing that it just developed as the years went on. Like he was always really good at that because he probably did 500 million repetitions

throwing a ball like that. And my early league pass heads know that when he first got in the league, he just used to just throw those to Corey Brewer. That was like he talked about repetitions. That was like the Minnesota offense. It was Kevin Love go deep Corey Brewer fade patterns. It is ridiculous because you clearly would have had to, and it actually was the first time I had ever heard him say that

and it was really fascinating because there's, you, I mean, listen, there's all manner of super strong guys that are around. That is clearly a different skill that you just can't, you know what I mean? He's not just whipping them. He's putting them like in the breadbasket as a guy, is in stride, you know, over the head of the free safety. It's crazy. Yeah.

All right. So, would you go the same way, by the way, on the draft? What do you mean? The same way I just did it. No, I'd have Clay much higher just because of his two-way play. Would you rather have him over, you would rather have Clay than Kyrie? On my team, if I already had LeBron? No, no, no.

We got nothing. Oh, okay. I really, really, really like Clay Thompson. just for the because I think that you need an elite perimeter defender. Clay Thompson will guard the best dude on the other team. Well, you remember years ago, everybody thought they were stupid asses in Golden State for not trading him for Kevin Love. Yeah, yeah. That worked out pretty well for them.

And you'd rather have him. Yeah, I would. I know. I would. All right. Well, hey, listen, who am I to say Golden State's not smart? Yeah. What am I talking about?

All right, let's get to a couple of the headlines. One of the big ones that has been going around social media this morning and being reported is that Lonzo Ball has informed the Celtics. He is not going to work out for them. Now, everybody presupposed that Lonzo Ball, given the opportunity, would love to be a Los Angeles Laker. That being said, is he in the wrong for not respecting the process and going to work out for the Celtics? I think that there is enough history of guys not working out for teams at this point that of all the things to get upset about. Lonza Ball over. This isn't really the worst for me. I mean, Christops didn't work out for the Sixers. I mean, there's, there's, apparently nobody wants to work out for the Kings in years

past and that article came out pretty recently that talked about all these teams that just basically ducked going to work out for Sacramento. I, by the way, let me just go back and say this. The Grizzlies, when I covered them years ago, I had the number two pick. Now, I hate to bring this up because I want to run into traffic thinking about the beat. But that being, that being said, I will tell you, Steph Curry declined working out for the, for the grizzlies. He didn't work out for the grizzlies. Right.

And we're not, we don't hold that against him. No, nobody even remembers that. Yeah, right. I never got to see him. Like, Hardin did and The Beat. Actually, Thabit didn't. He worked out against the chair, which actually worked out for him. And this is the one thing that I think is the, you know, I still ride for Hinky.

And, you know, Christops would have been such a hinky pick. and I don't know whether or not him not working out for Philly had something to do with them not taking him or whether it was an ownership really wanted O'Khafore thing or whether it was just look, O'Khafore was like much more of a sure thing coming into the draft than Christop's. But I remember when that happened and that being a pretty big deal and a sign that like, you know, people were not into what Sam was doing over there in terms of they didn't want their players winding up on a five to six to seven year rebuilding project like that. Let me take a little bit of a different angle on this and ask you what you're. think about this, Chris. This is goofy because actually the best spot for development for

Lonzo Ball and for the future of his career would be to go to Boston, not to a team with a bunch of young guys and not a lot of veteran presence, not a lot of winning presence necessarily there in Los Angeles, but playing for Brad Stevens, not having the pressure of being awesome immediately, not having your dad around and being asked by reporters. Your dad can't go to every game unless he moves to Boston. He ain't moving to Boston because he's got the two little kids. That actually the best thing that could happen to Lonzo Ball is getting drafted by the Boston Celtics.

Do you buy that? No. And by the way, don't all you Lakers fans tweet me talking about, ah, it's better for him to go to like. Because LeVar doesn't need to be there to comment on the situation. You know what I mean? Like, if that's what we're worried about, LeVar is obviously figured out.

The trunk media playbook where you just say crazy crap all the time and it just keeps it going. But besides that, just basketball-wise, it would be better to develop in that kind of a culture, that kind of a winning culture that has been established in Boston than it would be to be in Los Angeles with a bunch of young guys. Yes. Although I think that Lonzo probably needs to be the focal point of a team sooner rather than later. Why? Because I don't think Lonzo is going to be a successful role player. Fultz could come off the bench in Boston. You know what I mean?

I just think that Lonzo is going to want to start. If you want to keep Lonzo happy, if that's what you're concerned about, it just seems like everything that they are projecting is that Lonzo not playing, like, Lonzo playing 10 minutes a game for the first half of the season is not something that he's interested in doing. Well, then he can F himself. He's a rookie. Exactly. You know what I mean?

I mean, what do I care? And you know what? What I just said is not actually, here's the problem. Here is the actual problem with all the circus around him. Because it's just like, LeVar loves his kid and LeVarer is trying to get money. And there's really like, there's only so much that that really matters. But it is creating an atmosphere around Lanzo that when this kind of thing happens, we're not reacting to it the way you would react to it. The way you would react to Steph Curry saying is not going to work out from Memphis.

We're reacting to it like, what a diva. This dude's going to get hated. when he gets to the league, his dad's going to ruin his life. Right, that's for sure. And I was just trying to take it more from a basketball standpoint, right? Yeah, I mean, I think. Well, listen, once upon a time, it was probably not the best thing for Curry if they thought, hey, he needs to be a point guard, and they just drafted Mike Conley

the year before. Right, right. So I get it, right? Basketball-wise, forget whatever the perception of the franchise was at the time, but just basketball-wise, maybe it's not the best thing to go there. And I just wonder if basketball wise, and again, maybe him getting on the court immediately and taking the lumps with the young team, or hell, maybe it's almost impossible to be super awesome as a rookie and lead to winning. But, I mean, I don't know. You think they're just going to get rid of Russell?

You think Lonzo Ball starts opening night? Try to move Russell to the two. I think that's what they want to do in the first place. Well, that's goofy. I would not give up on DeAngelo Russell as a point guard. I wouldn't give up on DeAngelo Russell as a point guard. I think both of those guys can be playmaking guards that can share the duties and you can stagger the minutes after a while and they have one take over for the other.

That's fair. One other headline, Chris Bosch and the Heat, evidently going to be parting ways. They have reached an agreement. This is all very, very messy because of the medical condition, because of if he were to play again, it would count, it could really put him in the luxury tax. And you had the two different CBAs going on simultaneously, or rather the transition to the new CBA. What do you think about this story?

There is this sense that if Chris Bosch could get medical clearance, he wants to resume playing again. He is 33 years old. Most people think he could still. I saw Tim Legler last night at Sports Center say he could be a starting power forward on a championship level team. still he believed that. Clearly one of the great players that we've had in the last couple of decades, but that is so scary to me. I mean, I'm not.

So scared. I'm not a doctor, so I feel really weird being like he should or shouldn't play. Right. If there's any chance of this being a life-threatening condition, if it's basketball, I just go work for T&T, man. Just be one of the best commentators. Well, and I hope that the heat, I hope that Bosch isn't doing this, I hope that this isn't coming to fruition

because the heat that he ain't ever playing for them. Yeah. Right? They're probably thinking in their minds. No way. No way. Right.

And so there has been this pressure to, if we could let him out of the contract, maybe he can go find a doctor that tells him he can play or maybe whatever, right? I think the heat probably decided the, it's the end of the line here. Yeah. Not going to be playing for us.

You know what's an interesting side story of this is that, you know, with the couple weeks ago when the Celtics guys were all together on Area 21, and Doc comes on, and they're all going to get their numbers retired there. Right. You know, it's like they all retired as Celtics. It's interesting to think about how that Hedel's team is just not only is it broken up, but so much bad blood on the way out for that team. And that none of those guys, probably, I mean, if any of them,

I could see Wade eventually, like, getting back to the, you know. Yeah, and he'll get the, in the end, you know, you see the tremendous regret that Riley has. I'm sure you read our mutual friend, Wright Thompson's profile on Riley that he wrote a couple weeks ago, which is outstanding. But you see, like he even talked about, there's real regret with Riley. Yeah, yeah, but in some ways, Riley's cutthroat nature is what. why the heat are in the spot that they're in. I mean, not only is the incredible eye for talent, and they have an incredible development system there

where guys like James Johnson are just, like, losing 30 pounds and looking like, you know, six men of the year candidates, but it's, you know, he made the decisions he made that the Lakers didn't do with Kobe that other teams have refused to do and have, like, sort of, you know, basically giving guys their retirement package while they're still playing for them to the detriment of their own situation. It's just, while I'm trying to.

remember the last time there was a team like Miami who went to multiple finals like that and and then all the core players from there pretty much have disavowed the organization. I mean multiple finals. I mean, it's also weird with the Nets, right? Because I was trying to think, I was trying to think of finals teams. They didn't win. But you know, that kid and Carter and all, you know, all those guys, Kenny Martin, all that Richard Jefferson way back when. I don't know if there would ever be some kind of great reunion between those guys. Would they go to Brooklyn or would they go to where the nets used to be? And I'm trying to think if there's any other team that,

because what you'd really need to have is somebody, like the best player really having bad blood with the former team. And that's almost impossible. You do have the whole weird jazz thing with, like, I don't think you get a hero's welcome if you're Darren Williams and they come celebrate a team. But wasn't there, like, rumors that he might go back? Yeah, I know.

I don't know. Maybe it's all, maybe his time has passed. Who else would be like a really great player? Are there any other really great players that when they go back to the arena on which they had their success, I don't want, I don't know booed is the right word, but certainly there is not some kind of, there's no love lost. I mean, obviously, Durant is not in that space. Durant is the one, right? So Durant's there and I think... So that's a pretty good one because that would be icy.

I mean, maybe it won't be in... It probably won't be in 5, 10, 15 years. Yeah. And other than that, we haven't had a major... No, they really cheered Rose when he went back to Chicago. Do they get excited for Chris when he comes back to New Orleans? I don't think so. But it is always weirder when it's a trade rather than somebody walking off on you, right?

Yeah. But I would say probably not. And then is there anybody else that just up and left? I think what happens also is it matters whether or not how much time have you spent with that one organization and then how much time did you spend with the next one? Because if Kevin Durant is a warrior for 10 years, are you going to think of him as a warrior or an Oklahoma player? Ten years? Yeah.

I mean, obviously if it's 10 years, that's going to be tough to get past, right? Because that's going to be the last thing on your- multiple championships. I don't know. Who do you think of Ray Allen as? You think of him as a Celtic? I still think of Ray Allen as a Sonic. I was going to say Buck. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, right? I mean, Ray Allen would be another one. I was trying to look through the, I was trying to look through the standings right now to see if there's anybody we missed. Oh, Dwight Howard. I still think of Dwight as an Orlando player. No, no, no, no, no.

But I'm saying he's one of those that like the hell with him. Yeah, right, exactly. That's a perfect one, because they did go to the finals. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So Dwight Howard's a pretty good one. And I don't know if I could find, like, even. Yeah, Shaq, I don't know.

Shack ended up playing for every damn team under the sun. All right. Last thing, if we do have a, if Cleveland is to close it out, as you want them to, as to set up the best possible finals matchup, it means we are going to have an extended amount of time off. I will tell you that I am horrible about watching television shows. I am the least educated on this. There's not a week that goes by that I do not suffer intense embarrassment.

In this last week alone, I wrote down, my friends have asked me, do you watch the Americans? No. Have you seen Fargo? No. Hey, did you watch Master of None? I haven't. Silicon Valley? Like, literally anything.

Like, you name it, I have not watched it. But I will have this amount of time. You host the watch for The Ringer. You are Mr. Television. So what could I feasibly binge watch and get through before the final starts? So I was trying to think what little I know about you and then also like the time constraints and the fact that you're not going to be able to go back and like relearn four seasons of the Americans or watch the whole first two seasons of Twin Peaks from 25 years ago or something. So what I want to suggest if you haven't seen this already is a recent classic, which is the night of on HBO. So this was a short like I think it was six or seven episodes mystery show on HBO that starred Riz Ahmed and John To

Turro and it's like this incredible New York City crime drama, but you can just get in and get out. And it is super propulsive. Like you'll start it and be like, I'm hooked. Yeah, so somebody told me it got real weird in the middle and they bailed. It gets weird, but it's still like you still want to know what happened. And it's also, when they say weird, it just, it's, it kind of diverges onto a couple of different storylines. But you'll be super into it.

And the big thing about it is that you could get it done between now and next Thursday. The Night of. All right. Anything else that comes to mind? Yeah, I mean, I would say that you could watch Master of None without having seen the first season, and it's pretty, it's pretty enjoyable. I'd be curious to know what you thought of that. But that's also something that's more recent that came out that people are really enjoying. And the thing with The Master of None is that those episodes are like 25 minutes long, so it's not a huge commitment.

I love disease on Bill's podcast. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a great show. The other one that I would say that's kind of... What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it about?

Yeah, it's basically about this dude who's, like, kind of trying to figure out his love life in New York. It starts out he's traveling in Europe But for the most part it's about a guy He was just trying to figure out his love life in Europe The one other one that I would suggest to you And this is a little bit off the beaten track But if you have Amazon There is a show on Amazon called Catastrophe

Which is like the episodes are like 25 minutes long And it is like the funniest, funniest, raunchiest show about marriage That I've ever seen And it's really really funny It's about an American guy Who gets an Irish woman pregnant While living in London

and they just get married because they have to. It's on its third season, but you could start wherever. I would go back to the first season, but you would really enjoy that. Catastrophe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so I got catastrophe on Amazon, but the one that you would say, if you can knock it out before the finals is the night of. Yes.

All right, you dig it. Chris Ryan, you're the man. Thanks, buddy. All right, brother. We're going to take a quick break, and then when we come back, John Gonzalez from the ringer.com, wrote a profile on an NBA podcast that is done by players that has gotten a lot of traction.

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You can only get this offer exclusively at dollar shaveclub.com slash NBA show. That's dollar shaveclub.com slash NBA show. And now we are joined by John Gonzalez, who writes for the ringer.com. he was in Cleveland for games three and four and then came out of it and wrote an article this NBA life and it is about Richard Jefferson, Channing Fry, and Ali Clifton and their road-tripping podcast that they decided to do to kill time while on the road with the Cleveland Cavaliers. John Gonzalez joins me now.

What's up, John? What's up, Bernard? I wanted to say, I wanted to say, John Gonzale. Like, you remember, what was his name? Was it John Miller? Like on Sunday night baseball? He used to always, anybody that had a name like that, he would like super, like, accentuated. John Gonzalee from the ringer.com.

I'll take it. Put a little English on it. By the way, where is he? Where is John Miller? That's a great question. Everybody's been scattered to the wind band. Anybody know? Anybody know?

I mean, I know that, like, they got rid of Joe Morgan, but, like, what happened to John Miller? I never had a problem with him. I liked him. I think he was going a while ago, no? Somebody's probably going to tweet me and be like, he calls the games for the Morlins or something, right? I'm going to feel like a jerk. I really don't know what happened to the guy, but I did love him, and that was one of the things I really did love. All right, so when did you get the idea or when did you first stumble upon said podcast road tripping that's done by Channing Frye, Richard Jefferson, and Ali Clifton?

Yeah, I can't take credit for this one, Chris. So for people who don't know, Chris Ryan wears a zillion hat at the Ringer. He has his own amazing podcast. He's the executive editor. He also happens to be my editor. So when I'm writing things, he handles, you know, kicking it back and forth with me. And we decided to go to Cleveland for, I didn't know about this podcast. So once he put me onto it, I was super excited about it because it's phenomenal.

It's really funny. I was also really pissed at him, though, because now I have another podcast to listen to, and I'm already at peak podcast. So I had to like shove another podcast into my diet. But that's how I found out about it. Chris Ryan put me on to it. And now I'm hoping to put everybody else onto it. Vernon, I don't know.

Have you heard it yet? They're amazing. I heard one of the first episodes. I actually, you know, the one that I clicked on, I'm much like you, where I've got so many in my queue all the time that it's whenever I can get to him. I get to him. And I recall there was one that was promoted big time because LeBron was going on it. and that's the one I for sure to listen to

but then I lost track of it since then so I haven't kept up with it but you're telling me I got to go check it out you gotta listen to it I mean like yeah they have LeBron on they got Tim Duncan to sit down which the Duncan hasn't done any media he basically retired and then like threw down a smoke bomb Batman style and like blew up into the rafters nobody's seen him since and then he materialized on this show so super as Richard Jefferson said first hand lost their shit when all of a sudden he was like sitting down

for an hour. They have, I mean, but Kyrie and Kevin Love are on all the time. And, like, when we're in PAC interviews, like, when I'm sitting there with a million other reporters and, like, we're asking basketball questions, Kyrie's kind of boring. You sit down and you listen to Kyrie talk with those guys, that's like a totally different human being. And this is where the Earth is Flat stuff came from, right? Yeah, they had him on, and he just started talking about all kinds of bizarre shit, one of which

was the earth is flat. And he walked it back afterwards. Like, you know, it's the media, you guys are ridiculous, she ran with it. But if you listen to it, not only did he talk about it that one time, but he talks about it several times. And on like the follow-up to the first, like, it really gets into like the fallout at All-Star Break and like all these

other ideas that he has. I mean, like, we have a Kyrie piece, hopefully, for next week. And that's just the tip of the iceberg with him. He's constantly throwing crazy stuff out there. And he's perfect with those two. guys and with Allie because, you know, they just let them run with it. Whose idea was it? I think initially it was Richard Jefferson.

He and Channing Fry have been really good buddies since they were teenagers. They grew up together, like, outside of Phoenix. They've been friends ever since. And then, like, you know, Channing Fry gets traded to the Cavs last year. And they were always having these crazy conversations. Like, there's a video that we have in the story where you can see Channing getting his balls busted by the rest of the team. And that happens with them all the time.

And I guess Retrie was like, screw it. We're doing this anyway. I'm coming towards the end of my career. He's sort of in the sweet spot now where he's at the end of his career, but he's still playing so he doesn't have to care. Like what people think about him. But they're friends with Ali. They roped her in.

It's magic man. They didn't even start this thing until January. And now they've got 28 episodes already. You've got 28 episodes. And what do you think the – what does the rest of the team think of it? Do they roll their eyes? they love it? Are they super supportive? They love it, Bruno. So they started doing it on the back of the plane because, you know,

you have these flights. What else are you doing? My thought was, you know, NBA players are super busy? How are you going to do a podcast? Maybe this is the only reason why, like, nobody else is doing one. And Richard Jefferson laughed at me. He's like, no, man, we have so much down time. Like, that's why they started doing this podcast. So it started, like, where they're doing it on the back of the plane. And they had to stop doing that because too many guys were coming back trying to get on the pod. So now they have to like schedule interviews like a normal podcast. One of the things that you talked about was is this, like, what's the future hold?

We have seen now a totally different world where athletes have their own voice and it has changed media completely, right? Because if you come out with a story and you say, oh, LeBron James and Kyrie Irving, sources say they argued in the locker room, right? Well, like, LeBron James can just take to Twitter and say, that's BS. We didn't argue with the locker room, right? I don't know who are your sources, right? Like, athletes can, they can create their own narratives. And so, and now you are seeing expand to things like writing Dionne Waiters or whoever writes for the Players Tribune. And now you have guys doing podcasts.

If you can, just speak to this evolution of athletes having their own voice. Yeah, real quick, shout to Dionne Waiters as a Philly guy. Did you read that story? That was amazing. How awesome is Dion Waders? I read that story. He comes off intensely likable. Oh, it was amazing.

Like, I read that story and immediately texted Chris Rhinos. Like, have you read this? I want to be the Dion Waders' Ringer Bureau Chief. I just want to follow Dion Waders around. That dude's amazing. But that players' tribune piece and what they've tried to do, like that's kind of what... So LeBron has a company now called Unerrupted,

and the road trip and gang just signed with them. And that's kind of what they're trying to do, like what the Players Tribune is doing for writing. They're trying to do for video and podcasts where they're trying to get, I mean, right now it's just basically word-trip. Like, JJ Redick had a pod on the vertical. But it was different. It was much more like JJ, where it was super thoughtful

and had this NPR quality to it, but he stopped doing it during the season. So this off-season, I think Richard Jefferson and LeBron are going to try to reach out to other players and get more players to do pods like theirs in season. That's the model I think. Do you think that this is, see, I don't look at it as a threat to media. I view this as an enhancement of media because we learn so much more about them. In the end, I am well aware that whoever I am sitting talking to, unless I have a close

personal relationship with them, is not going to be, they're just not going to be themselves. Like you said, the Kyrie Irving you hear on the podcast is simply not the Kyrie Irving that's in the locker room. It's just a different guy. Yeah, and this is something I mentioned to Richard Jefferson. So they want to go, and it makes sense, right? Like, they've had super success on this pod. And by the way, how big a monster is the Ringer media?

So on Tuesday, they were 39th in the iTunes chart ranking. On Wednesday, in the sports and recreation. On Wednesday, we run the story. They go to number one. The Ringer vaulted them to number one. one on the on the charts well shit then right about this podcast I said I haven't met Shay Serrano but I've heard Shay say a lot that he wants to go on podcast so Shay if you're listening I'm just going to write about you having a podcast say hey you can't you can't

make you can't be more full of crap than Chase Serrano you mean you know me a podcast they've offered him he just he's gonna he just gonna jump to number one now He wants to play the role. He said, yeah, you know what you should do? You know what we should do? We should create the Shea Serrano show and just put it up and, like, have the graphic and everything and just never post an episode and just see how it does. See how it does on iTunes.

I think this is a great idea. We figured out the business model now, but that's what they're trying to do, too. Like, they're trying to, like, you know, get more players to do this. But to your original point, I think, like, that personality, thing that you hear with those guys, that's genuine because Richard and Channing and Halley are all like outsized personalities and Kyrie is too with them.

I get business-wise that you're trying to farm this out and franchise it. A couple it is because you've interviewed a lot of athletes in your career. Some of them are, like some nice people. Some of them aren't. But not everybody is like

a personality, right? You can stick with the microphone in their face or even when they're with their friends that doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be super funny or clever or introspective or candid. So these guys have a really special chemistry. I wonder if, like, just because you go and say, we're going to stick a podcast on, you know, the Suns or the Trailblazers or the Jazz, if they would have the same personalities to make it successful.

No, and obviously in terms of gathering listeners, in the end, you know, in the end, they get to choose what they're talking about. You understand? And there's like, you're right. And so what media members want to know, like, there are questions that they are going to ask guys are clearly going to be different than what those guys are talking amongst themselves, right? They're not, that's, people do crave the, it's not total reality. It is a side to them that we don't get to see completely when the athletes take things into their own hands. But they are also, they're choosing whatever they're going to talk about.

right they can't you know like when somebody asks him a question it's kind of like Russell Westbrook right he gets to choose what he talks about he just says next question next question right like you're never going to broach

that topic if Russell Westbrook is on a podcast right same way he told that guy next question in the press conference is something that you wouldn't get it and I do think that are still going to be there's always going to be people craving that for sure I mean I've spent it do anything

else. I have never done anything else. The only thing I've ever done in my life. And I've interviewed a lot of people. And it's just a completely different things. Listening to the, I said this to Jefferson and and Ali Clippin when we sat down, talking to them just on the side as

human is radically different than when you're in a media scrum. Right. There's a million other people. Like, how am I asking, if I'm standing there in between games three and four, I'm worried people surrounding him with microphones and cameras. How am I asking Kyrie about how he wants to start a commune when he's done playing, and he wants to put 200 acres

in Wyoming, when everybody else is asking about how he's getting a shot off at the nail. It looks ridiculous. You hear having these conversations, and you're like, oh, you know, even though I spend my time around all these guys, I'm learning all these new things. That's why this show is so fun. I'm having a fun of fun. For sure, the fan who doesn't get to talk to them ever is having fun. The name of the article is this NBA life, and it is about road-tripping the podcast that is done by NBA players, Richard Jefferson, Channing Frye, alongside their host, Ali Clifton.

Let me ask you about being in Cleveland for games three and four, and the aforementioned Richard Jefferson said he gave us the reason, right? The mystery was what was wrong with LeBron in game three. He says, Darren Williams had a stomach bug. LeBron got the stomach bug. He had no energy. He was lethargic. And so if you're looking for a reason why LeBron didn't look like LeBron in game. game three, it's because he was sick.

You were there. What did you think? It told me this before we started our interview, because I started the story with an anecdote about how LeBron came over and crashed the interview, and he was trying to be funny. So he, like, came over and shook my hand. He's like, hey, I'm LeBron James. Had I known this, I would have immediately, like, washed my hands. Oh, God.

What the hell? Like, if he's sick of my hand, he's shaking my hand. I always, that would always be a badge of honor if you got like super sick because of LeBron James. Yeah, if I got the LeBron sickness, I wonder if that would be like if I got bit by a radioactive spider. Like when I all of a sudden have superpowers that I didn't know I had before. I don't know. But when I get sick, it's some like dirty six-year-old stuck his, you know, finger on me or something, right? At least if you got sick, it's because like, hey, I shook hands of LeBron James and I got sick.

Yeah, I got the good LeBron sickness. I don't know, he looks fine to me, but maybe he was. Like, who am I to say LeBron was sick? He was sick. He was sick. He was sick. All I know is that that game, like, game three, he definitely didn't look like himself. Game four, he looked at. Game four was about Cairo. Caii was such a cliche to say that he put them on his back or whatever, but he really did. They had Celtics had no answer for him, which is amazing because they have one of the best on-ball defenders on the perimeter and A.B. Bradley in the league,

and A. Bradley had no answer for him. So that was a big, you know, LeBron had a very good game after the second half after he came back in, but win that game, that was a Kyrie game. All right, so you're just going to look at it and go, all right, game three was sick, and that's the only reason Boston won that game, and Marga Smart hit seven-threes and whatever else. And so this thing, it should have been a sweep, and now that LeBron's not sick anymore, it's just going to end in five and Cleveland's going to bury him tonight. What do you think?

I mean, I didn't expect, who did expect, even with a sick LeBron, right? Like, if you had like whatever percentage of LeBron you would normally have, you know, instead of 100% if he's sick and you had like 45% of LeBron, wouldn't you still expect them to win game three? Nobody expects the Celtics, I think, were super surprised about that because even with a sick LeBron, Mark is smart play out of his brain, Jonas Rebko is out there nail and shot. Nobody thought they were going to win that game.

They were down 21. The weird thing is the weird thing is game four, because I certainly thought he was going to come out and just, you know, demolish everybody, and they were just going to beat the hell out of the Celtics. After the Celtics had gotten their win, that they were just going to kill them and LeBron was going to come out, you know, on fire. And I know we got the four fouls, but we looked up and in the first half they're down like 15, 16 points. By halftime, they're down by 10. And I was like, what is going on here? Yeah, the start to that game, you're right. super squarely. I didn't expect it.

It was very strange. I really thought what you said, that LeBron would just come out and just, you know, hammer them into the sand, and that would be the end of it. So for the Celtics to keep going, I mean, everybody gives Brad Stevens credit, but those guys scrapped. So they get full marks for that part of it. I wonder, though, if you're the Warriors and you're watching all of that, like, with your feet up, you know,

having a M-Tai out on the West Coast, are you just laughing right now? I mean, I know that last year, the Dremont situation sort of ball with the cats back into it and it was a totally different series. But if you're watching this right now, I don't know, I'd be maybe overconfident. Yeah. What is the, what's the sense you get from being around that team? You know, chemistry is always something really hard to find. And they went through their lumps, especially with the David Blatt stuff.

And even this year, I don't know if they were just dicking around, but, I mean, they went 23 and 23 in their last 46 games, right? And most people think they've just flipped a switch at the end. The podcast speaks and the willingness for all the other guys to go on it to speak to that they all seem to have a pretty good environment around there. Just give me your take from being around there for a couple of days. And then within that sector where they're recording podcast and LeBron's around and whatever else, what was the sense you got about the Cavs as a team off the court? Watching them, it seems like, I mean, for sure, obviously Channing Frye and Richard Jefferson are tight.

And that's for a different reason. but you see them interacting like jumping them on the pod and it's it feels to me like those guys are you know, but Kevin Love got a lot of heat when he first landed on that team for not being part of it.

Remember that picture where they were all out and everybody was like, where's Kevin Love how come Kevin Belved didn't join them? And now it feels like he's on the pot all the time. They laugh at it. If they're faking it, they're really good at it. I mean Kyle Corver, I knew Kyle back when he was in Philly. Kyle's a nice guy, he's kind of shy. It doesn't feel like, you know,

you wouldn't be like, oh, you know, who the most, the greatest storyteller and the funniest dude you ever met is Kyle Corver. Kyle Corver will go on that show, and they'll just, like, get him to open up and tell him, you know, they'll start telling stories about hanging out with Alan Iverson and, like, you know, what that was like. You know, they get LeBron to go on. And LeBron is obviously not only the biggest and best player in the world,

but one of the biggest and most of the biggest and most. recognizable figures in the world. They're like, hey, man, like, take a time out from being LeBron and come and talk to us, and he does regularly. So I'd be shocked if this was all, you know, somehow put on it. It sounds to me, and it seems to me anecdotally from Washington's listening. Last thing, John Gonzalez, you mentioned being a Philly guy. The number three pick.

Who do you covet? This is tough for me. I wonder about the Sixers need so many things. Like, I listen to people in Philly Go out of it. You know, like, get a point guard or whatever. Okay, they haven't been good in forever. They can't get their best players on the court. It would be interesting.

Here's my question for you, Verna. What Lanzo fell? Because I thought that, and Chris Ryan was saying this as a fellow silly guy, that avoiding that two-spot was actually good for them because you sort of afford the LeVar ball-lazzo ball conundrum. Like, how do you fit all of that dynamic into the Sixers team? What do you do if they fall if they fall as if they fall, though? Would you take them?

Yes. Yes. That is a very easy answer for me. Yes. All right. I mean, I don't think, listen, I would say you can only go wrong if you don't take one of those five guys. If you've got one of the top five picks and you don't take one of Fultz, Ball, Tatum, Jackson, Fox, I would look at it and go, what? like I think those I think there's a pretty good consensus that those are the five best guys

yeah yeah I think so I would wonder about Fox on that team but yeah I think I think you probably just make the easy pick there if it's Josh Jackson because the other two guys fall and then Tatum would be fine too but there's nobody that you're just totally in love with I mean I everybody's in love with Fultz but I want I mean look it's a deep it's a deep group but I don't think after Fultz you go okay I And I love Lonzo Ball's passing. His defense is hyper questionable, and then you've got, like, all the drama surrounding it.

But beyond those two guys, you look at it and go, any of these guys could be good. You can't be 100% certain. You take the guy you think it's probably best, and you hope for the best because, like I said, the Sixers, watching them recently, I just want to see players on the floor. And Bean was so much fun,

and I hope that Simmons will be similar, and I hope they're both healthy, and it would be really nice for Sixers fans who have, you know, been in the wilderness for a while to come in from the cold. Dig it. Go check out the article. It is This NBA Life by John Gonzalez.

It's at the ringer.com. It's about Richard Jefferson Channing Fry, Ali Clifton, and their road-tripping podcast, which, through his powers, has made them number one. And they're welcome. You're welcome, Channing Fry and Richard Jefferson. Maybe now you guys can finally make some money. a break.

I'm glad something worked out for those guys. Glad something worked out for them, too. John, you're the man. Thanks, buddy. Thanks, Bruno. It's going to do it for another Ringer NBA show. We will talk to you next week. Ringer NBA show today brought to you by Dollar Shave Club for a great shave at a great

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