The Ringer NBA Show - Warriors-Cavs Fatigue, LeBron Landing Spots, Offseason Story Lines | Heat Check (Ep. 288)

Episode Date: June 11, 2018

The Ringer’s John Gonzalez sits down with Chris Ryan and Kevin O’Connor to discuss whether the anticlimactic sweep in the Finals is good for basketball (3:45) and debate which team LeBron James might head to over the summer (22:56). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's a heat check. You knew that was coming. It's heat check time. Welcome to an off-season edition of, I'm so excited. You can hear to my voice of the Heat Check podcast. I'm your host, John Gonzalez, joined as I am every week by my producer, Isaac Lee. Isaac, we're in the same spot. We're both in Los Angeles.

Welcome back. I have returned from Cleveland. I have returned from a protracted post-season push where I was in Philly and D.C. And the Bay Area a lot. And now we're back. And I almost, I almost, I almost, actually didn't make it into games three and four, Isaac. So in between Oakland and Cleveland, while we were in the Bay Area, Colleen, my wife came up to San Francisco and we were hanging out.

Oh, that's nice. Yeah, it was super nice. We had a couple days where we like kicked around in between, because, you know, there was a bunch of time in between the finals games. So we had dinner. But because I was traveling to lighten the load in my bag, I sent her back with a couple of my suit jackets. And one of them had my credential in it. Oh, no. So I should. So I should, showed up in Cleveland and I didn't have a credential. So I went to the credential office and the nice people at the NBA rightly called me an idiot but helped me out. But then moments after I got my brand new credential, I did a video for The Ringer. I saw that video. And it says in the credential office, whatever you do, don't put your credential on social media because if you do,

your credential will be revoked. So sure enough, right after getting my replacement credential, I did the video and my credential was, not only was it on the video, I was basically popping my credential to show that I had gotten a new one. And thankfully, the ringer people are all very smart and talented and were aware of this rule and blacked out my credentials. So thank you to Pat Muldowny and all those guys for saving me for myself. It was great. I mean, I thought using the photo of you clenching your teeth as you were trying to get a quote, I think that was a really smart idea and funny. I also at some point in the finals became a meme.

So thanks to everybody who made fun of me on Twitter and your continued support here at Heech. But the NBA season is over and yet it continues. It never stops here at the ringer. We have all kinds of good content on the ringer.com. You want to check out some pieces. We did a group post where we have

advice for LeBron in an advance of decision 3.0. I wrote about LeBron's last game of the year, which could maybe be his last game as a cab ever. KOC wrote about the Warriors and how they've upped the stakes for the off season. Palo had his exit interviews. We've got NBA desktop with Jason Concepcion.

Bill's got a podcast with Charles Oakley. That's fantastic. And also, this is super fun. Courtside at the NBA Finals on HBO will be up June 19th and 9 p.m. Eastern time. I saw Bill a ton, Isaac, at the finals, and he was kicking around with the HBO cameras, and he was getting interviews that I know he got, but I won't tease because that's proprietary information.

going to be really fun for you guys to see all the access he got behind the scenes. So check out all that stuff. And also, because the World Cup is starting on Thursday, soccer, international soccer is fun. Ringer FC will be going every day during the World Cup, every weekday. So you want to check that out. But of course, the finals just wrapped. So we're going to do our finals round up. We're going to have our LeBron talk and where he might land. And we're going to get into a couple of offseason storylines that we're looking forward to. And to do that. I need experts. I need my friends. Let's bring him in.

Boom, Shakalaka. He's heating up. All right, joining me in the studio to people that I've talked basketball with quite a bit this season at a place where we always talk about basketball. Chris Ryan and Kevin O'Connor are in the studio. What up? Hi, guys. We did it.

We did. And then it continues. Our dynasty continues. The finals, we got through the finals. We got through the regular season, as Bill mentioned in our slack. And yet it's not over. But let's talk a little bit about the finals because I haven't really had a chance to go through it with anybody. yet. Did we enjoy it?

For me, I was the most bored I've ever been watching the finals. Game one was excellent. But other than that, game three was good? It was, yeah, there was some good moments. But I hope we get better than a four-game sweep next year. This was actually the first time where I felt like the finals is supposed to feel like a Super Bowl and instead it felt like a baseball season.

You know what I mean? It just, it felt like the stretch to get to the conclusion that we knew we were going to get to, felt a little interminable. And I think that that has a little bit more to do with the boredom of it that, like, though what Kevin's talking about, than anything that was wrong per se with like the game or the play or the reffing or the or anything like that. I just think that it's tough when you have some that's a finals that's so lopsided talent-wise to conjure up excitement for it. And I think it's kind of weird. It's like we have this dynasty now. A lot of us grew up in various points remembering

certain other dynasties. And then we had a year where I feel like there wasn't necessarily parody as much as things would happen for two years. Things would happen for two years. Things would happened two years. This is now year four. Yeah. And no end in sight. Yeah, and no end in sight. And you know what? Like for me, and I'm with you guys in that like, you know, I was there and I'm watching all these games and I love basketball and yet we knew what the ultimate result was going to be. We've known it before the season even started. We've known it for four years, right? That this is going to be an issue. And like I said, there's no end in sight. And I wonder now like next year, if we're probably in store for more or the same.

And like, we're just going to, it's going to be the regular season and then it's going to be the finals and they're going to be two separate entities. And we're going to have to find enjoyment in a different way, I guess. This is what I struggled with over the weekend. I mean, really starting immediately on Friday night, during the game, actually, around the middle of the third quarter when Golden State was really just extending their lead. It was really at that point, I was like, geez, man, what if everybody's right? The basketball's ruined.

The finals is never going to be the same. And I struggled with that that night, but then I kind of came to the realization that, no, that's not true. Houston just pushed Golden State to seven. If Boston's healthy next season, they're going to be able to be a team that can go to-to-to-to-to-go. Yeah, and if Golden State had challenges getting to this place mentally emotionally, like they always talked about this season, like we constantly need to be doing upkeep on the, like, focus. And David West had those interesting comments after the game that seemed to be about, like, the stuff. that happened behind the scenes that didn't come out,

and it's a testament to how good this team is, that that stuff got kept behind closed doors. And it sounds like it's very challenging to mount these finals runs every season. And it'll be particularly interesting next year, because on one hand, I think you would think, oh, they're more beatable than any ever. Going to five finals takes like a Herculian effort. But on the other hand, a lot of teams out there might be like,

we're nowhere near this. We're nowhere near this. and maybe that changes our calculus on our team building. That's what I'm saying. Like the redundancy of talent for them, yeah, I hear everything you're saying, and they've been saying it all year long.

Like earlier in the year, you dispatched me to go and talk to them about them being bored. And I thought, well, they're never going to want to talk about that. And too, man, they all talked about it.

They were like, we're super bored. Sean Livingston mentioned that he had, like, he was stunned. He would have a hard time ever finding the hunger to compete for the title.

And after the finals, right after the finals, Steve Kerr gave an interview where he was like, I don't, and, you know, I'm paraphrasing and truncating here, but it was basically like, I might not show up till December, right? Like, they're already thinking about how, like, next year's going to be another long slog. But, oh, man, is that, is that the best that we can do that we can hope for that they'll just be fatigued

too? Like, we're all fatigued by them and they'll be fatigued too, and then maybe it'll be a thing. I don't think they've ruined basketball. I do think that they've solved this version of basketball. So really what it's about, it's about the Daryl Morey's and the Danny Angels and the Brad Stevens and the Greg Popovich's and all the people out there are smart about hoops to come up with a new way of basketball that they can't solve. There is a challenge now that you cannot beat this team going switch crazy outside shooting. Unless, you know, I mean, we can go back in time and say if Chris Paul plays game seven, maybe we're having a totally different conversation.

But there is a certain cheat code that this team has with Durant, Curry, Clay, and Dre that I don't know, at least for the next season or two is beatable. I think it can be. You do. I do. I really do, because wherever LeBron goes, I love your story-eyed optimism. Whatever he does, that team on paper, in his eyes, you would think, is going to have the qualities

that it's going to take the beat goal in state. Does he have both hands in this scenario? I would hope so. I can't wait to talk about that. Like, should we just talk about LeBron's hand or what do you want to continue that? The thing is, though, is what makes you think more teams aren't going to try to stack up?

I'm like, we could be on the verge of getting some unbelievable series. this coming next year or two or three. If we don't get that, then yeah, it's going to be really boring. Maybe Durang gets bored and he eventually leaves for his own thing. But the other side of it is like this could get really, really interesting really quickly. It could. And we're going to get into landing spots later in the pot about where LeBron could potentially go. But Kerr, I thought during the finals, like really hit it where he said it's been a weird year for us.

And we knew our four starters, right? And then that fifth spot was sort of like floating depending on matchup and depending on health and availability and all these things. And which one of the five centers that they have. Exactly. Right. And they had these like weird, this weird grouping of centers. But the point was that it doesn't matter who that fifth guy is. It doesn't matter really.

Their bench was thin and it didn't matter, right? Because their four guys are so much better than everybody else. And Adam Silver was trying to make the case right before the playoff started where he gave his annual address. He's like, I think this has been the most interesting finals or playoffs that we've had in quite some time because these two teams had to win their last two games and won game seven on the road. And now look, they're back again and won't this be fascinating. And I'm like, nice shot at being the hype man, but I'm not buying it because how do you overcome this? The Cavs have the best player of his era. And you and I did this back and forth where it's the best player of his era.

And you said he's the best player ever, fine, wherever you saw him. And we knew he wasn't going to be able to overcome it. And it just kind of sucks. Yeah, I even think that that was sort of the underlying narrative to game one. It was that even if JR had went back up with the layup or called a timeout and they'd play and scored or George Hill even makes that free throw, I don't know that everybody is running for the Hills to rewrite the next day's sports edition. You know what I mean? Like I think that people would be like, they stole one, watch the Warriors win four in a row now. It would have been the Ivers and Tyloo step over again.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. I think that one of the issues that we're going to have. going forward. And this is interesting because when we were going into the finals and I was talking with Fennacy,

our editor-in-chief over here, and we were talking about what would be good for basketball versus what might be good for writing about basketball. And I was saying

that I was desperate for it to be Rockets Cavs because you get the Chris Paul can you finally win one thing? You get James Harden taking the next step up into that top three zone. Right.

And you have LeBron with a legitimate chance because maybe you could count on Houston's naive day in the finals as an opening for him to win, right? He's been to the finals all these years, these Houston guys, for the most part, have him. And he was like, are you crazy?

It's got to be Golden State Cleveland. It's got to be, that's, it's Cowboys versus Packers. It's, that's what we have now. And it's like, for all the people here who watch 100 basketball games, a season, and think about it way too late into August, and then forget about it for two weeks, and then

come back, like, obsessed with it in spring, you know, and they come back to camp. we have that feeling of being tired of it but I think outside of our bubble people were like cool Steph Curry and LeBron You think the general public is like Yeah I'm cool with this again?

I don't think that they spent their season worrying wondering whether or not Portland had a chance I think they casually watched basketball It was all of us It was all of us being like I think You know maybe this Indiana team could knock out LeBron Maybe they could have Like maybe three balls bounced differently and they could have

But for the majority of people who watch sports try going to a party and telling a person like, oh yeah, last night I was working on a bunch of draft lottery stuff and they were like, oh, that happened. Exactly. Right. Yeah. That's a fair point.

And it's also going to be the last one we get if LeBron leaves Cleveland. Yes. It's the last one. Yes. Yeah. All right. So let's move through some other storylines though. So for MVP, it ended up being KD, who did you think that was the right pick?

I was actually a little surprised that it wasn't a closer vote. It was like 7 to 4 in favor of KD. I thought that that game two performance by staff where he had the record nine threes would sort of boost him. He also played pretty well in game four. Who did you have on yours? When Juliet and I did this after the finals on Friday night, we both selected Stefan Curry.

I'm still on stuff, even though KD was better across the board statistically. Yeah. It just felt like Stefan Curry had an overall more significant impact watching the games. I thought it was Durant mostly for game three, and because Steph played poorly in game three, or at least shot poorly in game three, I think the debate that's come out of it and the conversation that's come out of that about,

are the Kevin Durant Warriors really the Warriors? It's very, very interesting to me. I can't tell whether it's like talking about the weather in California where it's like always pretty nice and it's always pretty much the same, but you're going to have like these small differences between July weather and August weather. It's like they're still great no matter which way you cut it, but this idea that there is like an essence of the Warriors that has been lost because of Durant and playing ISO and relying.

on him to bail them out, I think is a pretty fascinating conversation. I also had... It does feel like who's your favorite Roman emperor, though? It's like you're still getting dominated by them? Why are we doing this? I also had KD for MVP, but I just thought it was going to be closer. But like multiple times during the finals,

Kerr was asked about it. KD was asked about it. Steph was asked about it about like the whole whose team is it narrative? And I think part of that is because we as people who are constantly on top of this, not like the general public lawyer, like you were saying where, hey, I can just enjoy this.

Like, we're looking for new storylines and how do we create content out of this? And, like, I want to make it interesting. And, like, one of the last things that is even, like, semi-interesting about this is, you know, them versus themselves, right? Like, if they can over- because really, they're playing against themselves. If they're not bored and they're engaged, they're going to be dominant. So then within that, like, what are there, like, how do they navigate themselves? How do they negotiate, like, whose play is on any given series or who's nice? it is on any given night and like, is there any

tension there? And they kept saying there isn't, but I wonder? Sure. You know, like you were saying about David West. I'm definitely resigning here like two weeks before anybody even thought to ask him about it. Is he making the right move there? Like, you had said eventually you see this ending.

I mean, I personally would rather see it end sooner than later just for like some sort of different narrative of storyline. You don't? No. Who do you think it will be? I don't know. I think that the Dremont thing is like, it's like a great car that's running in the red a little bit. And obviously he played his best basketball when it mattered the most.

But probably the most likely person to leave Warriors Island first would be Kerr. Just physically, you know, the back and like the toll it must take. And also feeling like your message isn't getting across or feeling like the people have started to like go on autopilot. If I had to guess, I would say that. I was surprised that Clay was like, I'm resigning for a team friendly deal. I guess that just is like, this is the life. he wants and that's great because like it sounds like a pretty good life. I know that

the toxic candidates. He's a little bit a good time. Never gets any blame yeah. Sure. Sure. I got some blame in that Rockets game. He got some blame for like kind of having a brain fart at the end of game six I guess. I don't know. What do you think? Who do you think is the first person off the island? Katie. Katie, if they have their continued dominant success. Like if it's the next two

seasons they win two more titles in pretty dominant fashion, then I think Katie is like, you know what? I want to be the best player now instead of the second best player. I mean, like, he's won two and he's won two finals MVP's and like, hey, maybe now's the time. Like, I know he's not going, but I just think it's really interesting

that already he had determined I'm not going anywhere. Let's keep this. I guess it makes sense from his perspective because he's going to get paid. I guess you have to ask yourself, what's the point? If you were to leave, I can understand him leaving, like you're saying, in three or four years to like another chapter of his career. But this

is why you should want to play basketball. These guys should want to put together a six-ring run that ends the conversation about who was the greatest team of all time. They can do that. It's in touching distance. And that's crazy. I never thought we would see a team like this again. I always thought teams would run in these three-season like windows. I always thought it would be more like the Celtics from the beginning of the decade or the end of the last decade, where it was going to be like, we got three great guys who were at the very right time, but as soon as it starts to go, it's going to go fast. And that's why I think this is about to get

super, super interesting. The last year, Golden State is 8 and 1 in the finals against the greatest player of this era, maybe of all time in LeBron James and the Cavaliers, and now we have teams trying to stack up to actually beat them. So now they're going to have worthy adversaries in these finals, in these playoff runs that's going to make this challenge for them of winning 5, 6, 7, however many finals that they aspire to win in a row, actually legitimately challenging and very interesting for us to consume. That's what I'm thinking about. Let me ask you guys. this then? Do you care if then the NBA becomes the Premier League?

Where you basically have like a really, really, really top heavy three or four teams at the top of the league. Possibly no good... Well, that's not true. Two good teams in the East, truly. You know, let's just say Boston, a Philly

team that lives up to their potential or a Toronto team that recovers from their like, that gets well... Some surprise 13. Yeah, exactly, right? And then this unbelievably stacked west, which we're imagining LeBron and PG on the Lakers, or LeBron joining Hardin and Chris Paul on the Rockets, or some combination of all these superstars that are in play.

And then these teams that don't matter. Are you into five super teams and the rest of the NBA and it becomes more like, hey, anybody want to watch the Reds in the middle of July? Yeah, I mean, yes, because right now we have less than that, right? Like, I want somebody to rise or several someone's to rise and be able to. to assert themselves and like give us a legit yes the rockets it was fun great but did like even before chris paul went down i was like now the warriors are still going to win this like i want like a legitimate like i don't know how this is going to end storyline and and that's

apologies to the rockets who knows maybe they'll be a darrell do some magician tricks and they'll be able to add some people but that's going to be difficult with their cap sheet like i want more i want somebody to challenge them we're going to get it i hope I really think we're going to. And we're going to do some offseason storyline stuff and where LeBron's going to go in a second. But before we do that, I want to talk about maybe that makes what the Cavs did all the more impressive

because they did almost steal game one. They did have a shot to steal game three. They did. Like, Durant went crazy. But they could have pulled off a couple games where that team's garbage. Like they don't have anybody beyond LeBron and like Kevin Love and then that's really it.

Even Kevin Love was sometimes. Even Kevin Love was not that great. So, like, we knocked them all season long, but they still got that far, and they still did at points push the Warriors, who, as we said, are, like, one of the most dominant teams we've seen and maybe might be the most dominant team. I mean, sitting around every night watching that Warriors team

waiting for that third quarter to come, felt humbling because you're watching the game and you're just like, doesn't really matter until the third quarter starts. None of this matters until the third quarter starts. And that was that one, what was the Rockets game where they, oh no, it was game three, it was game one in the finals. It was they, the calves kept it within like three or four. Yeah. I think the point differential in the third quarter was like plus four warriors or something like plus five warriors.

And I was like, oh my God. And then I thought about the mental and physical focus it must have taken to like stop the wave there. You know, and it must have been putting your finger in a dam. And they never did it again, really. I don't know. Is your question essentially like, are any of the, you're, you're, is your question essentially like, are any these teams very close to them? No, my question, I think it was more like,

I, we've been shitting on the calves all season long. And they still got there. And they still did it. And it's a testament to LeBron. So is that a testament to LeBron or is it a testament to the East is not as good as we thought it was? Probably a little A, a little bit more of A than B, but B is definitely a factor there. It's too bad that we didn't get to see Hayward and Cri versus LeBron this season. Yeah, it would have been great.

You mentioned Cleveland pushed them. Dremont alluded to this, I think maybe after game three, I want to say. And he said, I don't think we're near our ceiling. Yeah. Did we see the best from Golden State in the finals? No, probably not, which is really terrifying. They're clearly like every game they win the next day, it takes them a quarter and a half to even start smelling the salts. You know what I mean?

Like, it's terrifying in that regard. All right, so let's take a break, and then when we come back, we will do all things LeBron, where he's going to go, what we buy about his hand, and then the other storylines for the awes season. Today's Ringer NBA show Heat Check is brought to you by ADT. Is your home an ADT home? If not, get ADT and help protect against break-ins, fire, and carbon monoxide.

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With a 36-month monitoring contract, early termination and installation fees apply, excludes taxes and fees, applies to traditional services only, certain markets are excluded licenses available at atatat com and now back to heat check all right we're back kevin o'connor chris ryan let's before we go to landing spots let's talk about lebron he came out after game four took a long time it always takes a long time with lebron he takes his time when he's when he's gone to the podium but when he came out he had what appeared to be like a rap or like a cast and I was like, well, how the hell did he get a cast that soon? And he was sort of hiding it under the table. And then at one point, I guess he forgot that he had it on or he was purposefully revealing it.

And when he brought it out, the cameras went nuts. It was just like camera shutters, click, click, click, click. And he stopped and remarked, oh, you guys like that. Well, I'll just put that right there so you can get a good look at it. And he confirmed a report. Confirmed I'm doing air quotes because Kevin O'Connor right now, very skeptical, arms folded. But there was a report that he broke his hand. after game one because he was so pissed off about JR

that he punched a whiteboard I was in the locker room afterwards I didn't see anything broken I didn't you know like it looked like he was fine I saw him all right I saw him all series he looked like he was fine the only time he didn't show up for practice

was the day before game four he sat that one out because remember he had turned his ankle in game three and I thought that was just it and also he's LeBron he was probably like screw it I'm not going to practice today do we buy it I buy it I heard about it on Wednesday, looked into it on Thursday and then again on Friday.

And every turn is nothing, you know, even if there were something, he's not going to admit to it. Just a whole bunch of denials, denials, denials. Then boom, 30 minutes after the game, within like a minute, a bunch of people are reporting it. LeBron's got this cast on. There's photos of his hands swelling. It's like, oh, huh. I buy that they were just trying to hide it. Oh.

But I also buy that this is part of a narrative. No, that's what I wanted to know. if you bought that it was broken. I don't know. I don't know about broken. They reported it as a contusion, correct? That's what they reported. I think it was like they just did.

They were just like we're doing multiple MRIs. And the point was essentially that it was very hurt one way or another. But he had been hiding that because he didn't want to give the warriors an edge. I do think that it misses the larger point, which is the thing that needed a cast was the rest of the calves. Ah, you know what I mean? And I really missed 2011 LeBron, who made fun of Dirk for his cold.

You know what I mean? And now we're at the point where LeBron's like, by the way, I had this injury, you guys can't play. Nobody was going to blame LeBron for the finals. LeBron literally dragged this team out of the 28th ranked defense

or whatever they were when the season ended to the frigging finals and almost one game one. No one was like, man, not enough LeBron in this playoff. Can't believe he couldn't pull it off. Every single night he looked great. He played basically every minute of every game. He's probably the best player I've ever seen in my life.

Doesn't really need the cast. Unless he's like, I can't play next year. I don't really know what the point was. And that's the thing. It's like he's not going to use it as an excuse. It's like, yeah, they wouldn't have won anyway even if he had a healthy hand. And because the rest of the roster, as you said, Chris, that's what needed the cast. I don't know.

Was there anything that like we're talking about the hand? It's like this isn't distracting us from talking about how bad the calves also are outside of LaBron. Right. It's not like, this was like a weird PR stunt that didn't work. I just feel like it's all it's done has made him look corny, which is a shame because he had like a shout to be the only person in history to get swept and also be finals MVP.

LeBron is corny though. And I mean this like in a nice way. Yeah. He's a dad. He's like a washed dad. It's great. I love it. If it was actually performance art,

then I'm all the way in. Like if he was like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to put on a fake fucking cast and go out to the press conference. and be like, boom, bitches, and put that on the table. Wait, what was the... I don't know, but I fucking love it. Here's the thing, though.

There is an injury, though, because look back at all his pressers. After game one, he's hiding his hand under the table, or he's holding something in his hand. Go back and watch the game film. He's using his left hand a lot more around the rim when finishing. I watched this Friday morning. I went back on Synergy and watched his at-room finishing, and it's like, huh, he's using his left a lot around the rim, a real lot. Even in situations where you don't leave us right.

All he did was take up your free time. He did. He did. Because after I got declined at every turn, no, nothing to it, nothing to it. I haven't heard that. I was like, there's something going on. There's something here. I love it.

You're like Kevin Costner and JFK, but the JFK doesn't matter because he was still really good and they still really lost. But it's LeBron! That's why I'm saying him all the way in. If he was like, yeah, I'm just going to do this, like fine. Great. Because look at what he did for Kevin O'Connor. You went down a rabbit hole. He made me waste like an hour.

Yes, I love this. I love this. All right. So now, of course, the other thing is, where's LeBron going to go? Is you going to stay? Is it going to go? So I have the odds here. We'll just take them in order and we'll run through the teams.

Can I say something really quickly? Yeah, please. Just, I've been thinking about this all weekend. How far we've come in four years in terms of the league and in terms of our perception of player movement. It feels so much different now. It's a fail-complete that he's going to go. go. It's, and it's so

accepted. You know, I don't know if maybe it wouldn't be if he hadn't won a championship. But I just feel like we have really passed some sort of outer limit boundary of our relationship to players and what they should and shouldn't do and whether or not they owe anybody anything.

And I'm kind of like, I'm dead inside. I fully expect him to be on the Lakers with Paul George. And it doesn't bother me and I don't even know if you should really bother Cleveland fans that much if you watch the end of that finals. I don't think that they were bothered. I think he got nice MVP Chan as he was going off with like four minutes left and I think everybody in you know like I like I said I've been to Cleveland so many times now that I know where there are

hand sanitizers in the airport and I'm like I got to get out of here and I was talking to people and they're like yeah we're worried about Baker right like that they've moved on right and it's like we got the championship 52 year drought uh was ended because of LeBron he came home he reembraced them I think it's all good if he goes he promised the one and he got them the one and as fans and consumers of the NBA, we've seen on both sides, there's no loyalty in this game. We've seen all the movement. We saw LeBron leave Cleveland from Miami. We saw him come back.

We've seen Boston trade Isaiah Thomas months after he played with a hip injury and his sister passed away. We've seen it on both different sides where there's no loyalty in this game. There's a business. So all this movement certainly, I think, is widely accepted because of what we've had this past four or five years. Yeah, and I think that the super team has gone from an anomaly to the paradigm. So it's like it's gone from, wow, can you imagine?

And that's just so wild and where's team loyalty? And how could you be so stupid is to let this guy go? And now it's kind of like, if I was a GM, I would assume that the best player I have on my team will only be in my player for like three or four years. Right. And let's see how, like, where those guys are going to go and build together. And that makes everything so much more compressed and so much more intense

because you're not saying like on the next contract, Ben Simmons will be good. You better get him good now. And you better get a good team around these young guys now because they will leave. We're already talking about Janus. When he commands a free agent, when Anthony Davis becomes a free agent,

what are these guys going to do? Who are they going to team up together? So to that end, we have the LeBron landing spot odds here. You mentioned the 76ers. They're at the top of the list at a plus 200. Pluses and minuses for him to go to Philly. If he goes, you know, he's very tight with Ben Simmons. They had the same agent.

They have a GM opening. He could be the GM as well. He could have all the burner accounts that he wants. Mbid was already recruiting him during the finals. The finals weren't even over yet. Embed was on Twitter recruiting him. Plus 200 for the 76ers. Do we like it?

Would it be good? I think it would be a weird fit on the court. It would be certainly interesting. I think for Ben Simmons, he was best suited to be in a situation where he could run his team. And we saw that this past season as a rookie. Ben was absolutely tremendous. It would be different for him, though.

This would be an experience where he could get an opportunity to learn from the guy that a lot of people compare him. too. You have to learn playoff ball. He'd be forced to learn how to shoot, learn how to cut, learn how to screen. I think it would be great for Ben to play with LeBron for two or three years. I'm not sure it's the best thing for LeBron, though,

to have to bring along a guy and Ben Simmons. And then Joel Bid also Sleezer approved and everything. I don't think it's LeBron's best choice, but it's a very interesting one for sure. Chris, I'm going to ask you the provincial Philadelphia question. Do you want them? I would rather have Kauai or Paul George. Why?

because I think Quire Paul George functions better next to Simmons. So you're just talking about the fit and not the Philly. We don't want them. It's a homegrown team. We don't have to deal with all the LeBron stuff. It's not even that. I actually do think that like also I've been watching LeBron James for 15 years or 16 years now. And I know what happens when LeBron's on a team.

Like I just know what happens to those franchises. Those franchises generally are not in a better place when he left. Now, do they go to the finals? Yes. After that, though, it takes some time. to get it back together. And after spending four or five years, you know,

watching the Sixers build to this point, it would be sad to see it, you know, it would be sad to see like Mark Kel Fultz or Joel Mee get traded because they didn't work next to LeBron and LeBron wanted whatever this next version of Kevin Love is on the team.

You know what I mean? Well, luckily they don't have a GM so they can't trade anybody. I say bring him in and it's going to be wonderful. The Lakers have the second highest odds, second best odds. That's the one I think is most likely personally. I just think that there's been so much smoke

about him going to the Lakers and he'll go in there and he'll alternate between his Brentwood mansions because he has two and Lanz will get jettisoned into the sun at some point and it'll be his team and maybe he convinces PG to go with them. I think it's the Lakers. That's the team I would choose if I were LeBron. I think stars would flock to play with him. I think aging stars would flock to play with him on lower contracts. I think L.A. is in a position where they can be really creative, right?

So they can create max cap space. They could theoretically sign the Bron and Paul George, but not. Not only that, they have an expiring contract in Lu Alding in $18 million. They can add that with a Lonzo Ball or Brandon Ingram and add a third star via trade if they really, really wanted to get creative. I think L.A. provides a winning platform, but also the ability to be super creative in adding other stars that other teams can't be. Depends on how he wants to play, because I think that that's a huge part of the Houston thing,

if Houston's in the mix. And it depends on how much he feels, honestly, he has left in the tank. Because I think no matter what, even if he puts together a super team on the fly in L.A., they probably don't go to the finals next year. I think that's, it's really hard to just, the exception of the Celtics, it's hard to put together a super team on the fly and go straight into the finals like that, I think. I think. Now, I wonder whether or not his perception of this next part of his career is into the twilight,

with lots of other stuff going on, showing a team how to win, taking a little bit more of a backseat, playing 30 minutes a game, playing a little point forward, maybe playing some four in the playoffs, whatever. Like, he just came off the most intensive effort,

probably of his career in this season. Played all the games, played his ass off. Led the league in minutes, led the playoffs in minutes. Like, he was out there constantly. I'm not saying, and we have no evidence

to suggest his body is at all breaking down, but at some point, theoretically, it has to start, right? Like, at that, the, The deterioration has to start a little bit. The cumulative effect of all those minutes and all that effort at some point you would think would fatigue him. So if you want to go, do not pass go.

You know, like if you want to just go straight to the finals, I think you go to Houston. And if you want to have a project, I think you go to L.A. LeBron has said himself, though, he has so much left to give the game and he still wants to be in championship mode. So like, wherever it is that he chooses, I do think it's going to be the team that he perceives as having the best on someone that's title. So it's like right now we look at Houston as a team that has the best opportunity to provide for that. But we don't really know how creative LA can get.

It's theoretically possible that they could put together a big three that's better than LeBron, Harden, Paul. They theoretically could put together something that's better than that with added depth using, you know, league minimum, using their exceptions, using their pick to have a stronger overall roster than Houston. Right now Houston's better, but it doesn't mean they will be. in August, September, we're previewing the season. Well, Houston's on the list.

It's just going to be the next two best odds are the Celtics and the Rockets. And I talked to a bunch of people at the finals. You know, we've obviously in our office, Charks wrote a piece about, hey, this is how potentially Boston could pull it off. I didn't feel like there was a lot of traction around the league for people thinking he was going to end up in Boston. But that's a possibility. At least the odds makers think so. But the Rockets is one that we've been talking about a lot, right?

that's one that has been bandied about all season long. The problem is Mori would have to do a lot of gymnastics, right? Like you have to clear the decks somehow roster-wise, and then, even then, because Chris Paul said that he's not going to take a discount, you're going to be deep into the luxury tax. So what kind of team would you have around? I think those three would be as good as anybody, and maybe that's just the Golden State model where it doesn't matter who you have after those first four, because those first four are so good. But I wonder what the rest of the team would look like if it is those three, and if they could even pull it off. Not great. And that's, to my point, it's like Houston would have to send out a lot of people to bring in LeBron or some of these other options.

No, they don't have to do that. Philly doesn't have to do that. L.A. doesn't have to do that, but Houston would. They would have to sacrifice quite a bit to bring LeBron into the equation. And I think ultimately that could end up hurting them when it comes to that Western Conference final series or whenever it were to happen against Golden State. The one thing he said before game four, he gave that really incredible press conference the day before game four in the finals. and he was talking a lot about basketball IQ and he was talking a lot about not only having the talent

because he was like obviously Golden States more talented than Cleveland it's not a shot it's just they have more talent but they also are smart and it's important and obviously this was his comments were cast in juxtaposition to what happened with JR in the game one and not making mistakes like that but when he was talking about basketball IQ and he's obviously reads and thinks the game on a level

that few if any people ever have I did in the back of my mind get a little spidey sense about San Antonio. On the list. About San Antonio being the perfect place for him to feel like he was in the think tank and he was working with people who took basketball as seriously as he did

and playing in a culture. Now, they obviously, with the exception of this season with Kwai, usually don't have as much drama of flying around the team as LeBron teams usually have. but there are some really good pieces there there are some savvy veterans there

there are some cool younger players there they'll have some players coming off the books this year and they could get creative and this is obviously the last pop push he's getting up there in years the Olympics coming he and LeBron get along really well I think that socially and politically

they agree on a lot of stuff I would be I'm just gonna hold I'm just gonna say I'm not writing them off I was told maybe a month or so ago, like San Antonio, is there any chance? And I was still, no, you know,

popping LeBron are close, but they wouldn't necessarily want to work together. LeBron wouldn't necessarily want to work in a system that's been constructed for 20 years. He wants to do his own thing. And I just, I don't buy that. It's not the same system. I mean, maybe there's a power,

maybe there's an internal structure to the way the team operates and how things get decided. But their system has changed four times in 10 years. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, they keep changing.

changing. I mean, they're good about that, about adapting and trying to find a margin and an advantage where maybe other people were. They were like a mid-range jumper team this year. They were one of the best ball movement teams I've ever seen three years before that. The year before that, like the year after that, they were a Kauai ISO team. Exactly. It's, it's, they can be whatever they need to be.

But if you're talking about who takes basketball seriously as I do, San Antonio is, is the, the place. And he should consider them at least. He should at least think about it, in my opinion. care if there's a small market. LeBron is LeBron no matter where he goes. He's one of those players. Russell Westbrook in Oklahoma City, he transcends the small market. LeBron transcends the market no matter where he is. That's not even a factor or a concern. It's really about for him, it's like the family factor. And then the basketball factor. Would that be the best choice based off what might be available elsewhere? Last one on the list here at plus 2000, the long

shot, but still on the list. And in terms of basketball IQ and team building and all this stuff, Stephen A mentioned this. You and I talked about it during the finals. He said that LeBron will at least have a conversation with the Warriors. That can't possibly be. I don't buy it. Please tell me that it won't be because if that's the case, then we really should just shut down basketball.

Yeah, I don't, I mean, it doesn't even seem. I also think that he would have more of a competitive streak. It would just be like an inner squad scrimmage for the entire season, right? They'd just be, I mean, like, they should just show them playing practices then at that point. the fun of it. Like, can they go 82 and O? Like, that would be the story. No, that would kill me.

So, can I just ask, Cleveland's done? Oh, well, we should also mention Cleveland. Cleveland on this list. Cleveland on this list is actually the third best odds of plus 500. I personally, yeah, quickly just like blew it past them because I can't imagine, like, what more can he possibly do in Cleveland? He already delivered the championship.

He went back home. That team needs a lot of work. They traded away a first round pick for Jordan. They have two more years of Jordan. Clarkson because of that. Maybe Lance turns into something, but still, you know, you saw what happened with Rodney Hood where he was alternately like averaged and then absent? Yes.

I just, I can't imagine. Rodgson's career, basically. Right, right. I can't imagine he looks at that and goes, more Cleveland, please. You could if you blow up the roster and get lucky. I mean, like, what if, let's say somehow through conversations, LeBron and Paul George, he convinces George to come to Cleveland for one year. So let's say a sign and trade has worked out with Oklahoma City.

And then let's say you use your remaining assets, whether it's Kevin Love or it's the number eight pick, and you bring in C.J. McCollum. Suddenly, your roster is looking pretty solid. Pretty solid. But then you also have to factor in the ownership thing. Of course. What about like clearly he's not. I was like devil's advocate to be fair. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, but like before the finals even started, Rachel Nichols asked LeBron, hey, you know, what's your relationship with Dan Kilbert? Will it be a factor? and he was like, um, and it was just like this long time to pause. And he is well within his rights to run his career however he wants. LeBron's series of one and ones here is,

is part of the issue. Yeah. And I just, if he wanted to stay with Cleveland, if he thought, hey, I want to, for my family,

this is the time period that we're going to stay in Cleveland. Like, let's just like, I'm going to sign a deal. I'm going to get the max. And then you guys can build knowing how long I'm going to be here. That would have made all the difference.

that really would have made all the difference. And that's the thing. He has done everything for the city of Cleveland, for Ohio, for Akron. He's done everything for them, but he hasn't shown much to the Cavaliers franchise that he cares about their well-being in the long term. Probably because there's always been a timeline on how long he's going to stay there. I mean, look, two years ago, 2017 Sloan press conference, I have used this quote 100 times in articles about LeBron.

David Griffin, at the time when he was general manager of the Cavalier said, we put the protections on these picks that we traded for Corver and Chang Fry and all these people because if LeBron's gone and Kyrie's gone and Kevin Love's gone, we're protected when we're at the bottom when we're drafting up high. Sounds like a pretty smart guy, maybe.

Sounds like somebody who knew there was a probability out there. There was a possible outcome that Bron would leave and that's what we're facing right now. It's going to be the dominant off-season storyline. We have all kinds of things that we're going to be monitoring with LeBron, but some other offseason storylines

and then we'll wrap it up here. Dwayne Casey just signed five years in Detroit. Godspeed to both of you. Five years in Detroit is I guess good for Dwayne Casey because it might be his last contract in the league. But okay.

And Markle Fultz may or may not play Summer League apparently. The Sixers just said that they still haven't decided. What are some other offseason storylines that you guys are looking for? I saw Markle work out last week when I saw Bamba and it'll be interesting to see him working with Drew Hanliff

if he solves his jump shot. I like Hanlon. He didn't not, is that, when you saw him, it was like, it was like, it was like, it was like, it was like, it was like, Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, it's like day two, day three, there's moments where he looked pretty good. Good, great. There's moments where Markell looked improved. I think, I think for Markell, like, if you watch his shooting form, sometimes like, his

head tilts back when he's shooting the ball and, like, his body looks really tight. like there's a lot of tension in his upper body. When he's loose, the ball, it looks good. Do you want him to play Summer League? Do whatever's best for Markell. If it's going to be a spectacle and there's going to be hundreds of people live tweeting

every missed jump shot, I guess. No, I think it would be good. I think that the thing that they did right was playing at the end of the regular season, play them a little bit in the playoffs, take him out when it got too intense and too weird and it would just been like a bull's eye on his back. I just think that normalizing his career,

as much as possible without hurting his career is the way to go, if I had to guess. He shouldn't play. Don't put him out there. July is too soon. If he goes out there and gets worked by somebody. Exactly. Look, everything else was there. We already know what he can do.

It was just the jumper. So for him, it's like this summer is about getting your shot right and then showing up and it's late September, early October, and look good. That's what it's about playing in some of the way. What do you want to do? That is a good point. However, my concern is if we're worried about his

fragile state of mind for Summer League because it'll be too much, you play in the NBA, dude. There's always going to be pressure. There's always going to be cameras. This is a complete media bubble thing, but I almost feel like there's more of a spotlight on Summer League than there is on a November game

against Atlanta. Maybe. What is there a game from him playing against some pip squeaks in Summer League, though? Right. What is there a game? And having a bunch of guys who are trying to make teams

guard him 90 feet. Yeah. Although I don't really think he's going to be challenged by that. I do think he's actually really good. I just think the jumper. Put him in Baltimore up and put him on the shelf and we'll wait until September. Give me one more storyline each for the offseason that you're looking forward to. The draft, Gans.

Of course. It's going to be a draft. It's happening in about two weeks now. Just found out today, Luca Donch is officially staying in the draft. Not that we didn't know that before. For me, like, it's what happens with Luca. I reported this in my article today where Sacramento is open and turning down from number two. there will be a lot of teams calling for that pick

possibly to trade up for Luca or in for Luca at the number two spot. I'm fascinated to see what happens with him because I don't totally buy that Sacramento wouldn't take him at two. I don't. But I do think they're also hot for Marvin Bagley and Michael Porter, so maybe if you're Sacramento,

trade down a little bit. Get your guy there and then somebody else moves up for Luca. What happens with him, the guy that we all have ranked number one on the ringers NBA draft guide? to me is the storyline, at least pre-free agency. Chris? My favorite storyline is the one we don't know yet. It's the Chris Paul to the Rockets.

It's the emergence of someone making an extreme move of a star player changing his mind about something and something that we don't know yet that emerges over the next six weeks and winds up shaping the league. The Kyrie trade last year. Yeah, Kyrie, it's PG, it's Presti doing something wild if he thinks he can't do this.

You know, it's a GM who is either GMing for his job or has a blank check from the ownership to do something radical, aka what if Portland does something wild? Like, I'm open to anything. I'm open to, and I think, you know, Kevin is showing us a Photoshop. I don't know if he made or if the Lakers PR team made of Lillard, LeBron, and PG on the Lakers. But that's what I'm saying.

I'm saying that, like, I will never forget the Mori quote that happened a few months before the Chris Paul trade, that was like, the Warriors are forcing us to raise our risk profile. And that is still the case. And if anything, if the Warriors were chirping about how it was hard to get it together to go for it again,

and you think it would be even harder the next season, everybody's risk profile should be raised because why not? And that's Boston, that's San Antonio, that's Houston, that's Philly, that's the Lakers. That's a lot of teams that are in the mix. NBA all season is fun. It also doesn't always happen at night, which is great. Yes, yes.

That is also great. I would like to have dinner with my wife. I would like to have dinner with my wife. It's going to be excellent. The NBA season is dead. Long live the NBA season. We're going to have all kinds of podcasts for you. We're not going to stop, gang.

Basketball never stops here at the ringer. K.C. Inverno will be here on Tuesday. We'll have group chat this week. We'll have draft class this week. I'm going to say thanks to Chris Ryan and Kevin O'Connor and Isaac Lee for coming on. And also, like, the season is over. but we're still going to be around. But I just wanted to say, we have an amazing staff here at the ring on. I want to say thanks to everybody, the NBA staff who put in a lot of work and was on

podcasts and blogging and writing from Charks and Danny and Palo and Haley and Justin and Juliet and Micah and Chay and Jason Concepcion, and of course the boss man Bill Simmons. It's just we had a great run and it's not going to stop. We're going to keep doing it. Bill's okay. He keeps the lights on and we really enjoy it. So thanks to everybody, especially who listened to Heech in our first year, Isaac and I were constantly surprised and very thankful and we really appreciate you guys supporting us in our first year. It was a hell of a season. And we'll be back next week, gang. Thanks for listening. Shout out to you, guns.