The Ringer NBA Show - Warriors, Heat, and Grizzlies Vibe Checks. Plus: The Failed Timberwolves Experiment | Real Ones

Episode Date: November 28, 2022

Logan and Raja are back to discuss the once again above .500 Warriors (02:00), the young and rising Grizzlies (10:00), and the lumbering Miami Heat at this point in the season. Later, the guys give a diagnosis of the Timberwolves going all in with Rudy Gobert before discussing the Hawks and the current state of trash talking (30:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

An Instagram post gets an unexpected boost. A TikTok catches in the algorithm. Sometimes that's all it takes to launch someone into internet fame. But then what? This blew up is a new podcast documentary that reveals how social media stardom is made. It's a different kind of fame. That's not always as glamorous as it looks. From Spotify and the Ringer Podcast Network, I'm Alyssa Boresnak.

You can listen to This Blue Up on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. What's popping? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Raja, I knew it was the end of Thanksgiving because you had all of the videos of your kids doing great things. And I just want to know. Like, Roger doesn't say hello on the group checks before shows.

He doesn't. This is what he does. It's what Raja Bell does. Raja will say, link, right? Just send that link. Not even send that link, link, right? And then afterwards, he sends two videos of his kids. That's basically how Roger says hello to us.

And he showed a video of one of his, of his, of my fave, my fave, my fave, Ty Bell, who's just unequivably my fave of the Bell children. And then of him just, just, just, he just got a jump shot over the summer. And it's just ridiculous. He's doing great. And then he, like, makes a lot of jumpers. And then you got Dia dunking the ball,

dunking after he somehow, like, challenge you and said pops, I'm a dunk it. And you were like, no, you ain't dunking nothing. And then he dunks it in your face, basically. So that's a preview of all of the Thanksgiving. So I guess this is a roundabout way to say, how was your Thanksgiving, bud? How was it? Man, it was a really good, low-key Thanksgiving. And most people who have kids and have gotten to this mid-ish life, understand, bro, like, they're the best things that I've ever done, bro. So, like, I ooze with pride off of all of my young ins. You know what I mean? watching them and being on the field.

Like yesterday was cool because it was a Sunday. We didn't really have any games. So, you know, mom and I wasn't shuttling people from game to game. So I got to really be on the basketball court with Ty. I got to spend some time with Zinn and take him to Dix and, you know, do some stuff. Did you get socks? No, we didn't get no socks.

We looked at the socks. Okay, okay, okay. You didn't get any. And then I got to be on the football field like with Dia and Ty and shoot a bit with Zand. And so, like, it's just what I do, bro. It's like, you know, it used to be, man, I like to be out. Man, we're going out to dinners and we got shit popping. And now my favorite times are, like, hanging out with the kids and had a little date with my wife.

So my Thanksgiving was great. Damn, dog, that's what's up. My Thanksgiving was great, too. If only because it's the first time I've been able to chill and relax for the first time in a few, right? Like, I don't have kids yet. But, you know, just go out and see family who, like, you know, I went out to the Stockton area, saw some cousins and stuff. went, did my rounds in Oakland.

Shout out to the Schneeds. And then, man, Ms. Sneed, shout out to Mrs. Sneed, because she gave, she, just like, you know, one of those old school, just black women who just fucking, like, make the, like, the biscuits are made with care. You know, when you, when you, when you come up to the crib and it's just that, she just, she just, she gave us just a, just the, the onion biscuits, which were phenomenal. The sweet potato pie, dude. the, I'm just, I have the idas just thinking about it. So that's basically, that was what was popping with my Thanksgiving. That was what I was on. That was what I was locked in on.

If you're saying like two things over Thanksgiving that would, for me, be descriptive of the perfect Thanksgiving, it would be a meal like that and a time like that. And then just on some straight chill mode, which is the two things I'm looking for over Thanksgiving, man, that sounds like a good time. It was a good time, man. You know where the good times are rolling right now, right? Uh-oh, don't do it. You're going to do it.

You did it. You fucking did it. Good times are rolling now in Golden State, Roger. They are 11 and 10. They're on a bit of a run. I don't have the winning streets in front of me right now, guys. I don't have all of that. This is a vibes conversation.

Okay? This is the vibes conversation. They're doing really well right now. Back above 500, 11 and 10. But no, it goes back to a previous discussion that me and you were having. I think last week, Rob, when we were talking about the Warriors, and you were like, Logan, this is Rogers' words. Logan, calm down, relax. It's like 10, 15 games into the season.

We'll see how they do 20 or so games into the season. And it got me thinking about not only the Warriors, but the rest of the league. And this has just been a weird time, a weird start to the league for a number of franchises in terms of. of record. You know, you talk about the Utah's and they're coming back down to form, but also like, you know, the cavaliers figuring their stuff out. And it got me wondering, like, when can I really understand what a team is, Raja? Like, how long do I give? Because we're in this, in this league where there's, there's, I feel like teams are

judged by three times, right? The nationally televised game in the beginning of the season, where honestly is a terrible barometer. And I think around Christmas is when they're when they're also judged. And then right after the All-Star break is like the three times where you kind of see what a team is. Where do you, where can we finally see where these teams are going into form? And what can what can we take from the Warriors start? Well, I've always, I've always said that roughly in and about a quarter of the season to a third of the season in is when you can really get a clear picture of what you're working with you know what what what pieces work um what this what the ceiling could be for the team like

you know like you start to get a much clearer picture people have played their way into shape if they weren't in shape usually that that hangover that a team can have after a championship i would say golden state for one reason or another would fall into that like if you've had a long stretch of playoff runs uh and people are fatiged that's usually worn off and you're into you're back into the into the swing of things. And so that's typically when it is. And then that would be, you know, barring obviously any major move,

roster move or any catastrophic injury or combination of the two that could completely change the complexion of your team. But I think a quarter of the way to a third of the way in, you start to see what a team really is, like who they are and what they're about. And I think Golden State falls into the category, Logan, they had a lot going on.

And while I told you to chill and relax on them, I also was pretty frank in my feelings about how the distractions that took place right before the season started could affect a team like that if they got into a funk, making it much harder to get out of something like that because of vibes being low and general kind of mistrust and amongst other things. And so I think that they had a lot to navigate to start the season. And so they'll probably be closer to that maybe third of the way through the season. Like we're going to, you see them start around into form. They've been there. They've done that. They've got great coaches.

They've got great players. And there's a lot to be said for understanding what it takes to be a championship level team. And if you know what it takes, well, you might not have it right now, but you can maybe find your way back to that. How much of it, especially for Goa to State, right, where they're the, they're the, their biggest team in the league. They're like, they are throwback to like, it's like when you go with the Warriors, it's really like going with a rock band, right? They have so much attention on them.

Whenever you're, you know, you're around them, you can just feel propaganda, the, the vibes, all of that when you're around the Warriors. How much of like getting into, how much did they need to just get into the season, right? Because the first week, which you saw with, with Raymond and Jordan, and then, you know, that goes right into ring night, which is a. huge spotlight on your team. And then the couple of weeks after that, now they're just, you know, they're going on the road.

They're playing like the Minnesotas. They're, they're, the eye, the, you know, the eyes of, of the sports consciousness. And me and you are, know this. It's football right now. It's the end of the college football season, end of the, uh, about to get to the end of the NFL season. You know, eyes are other places. How much does that help a team who's going through something like that with the infrastructure

that they have? I think it's, I think it's important. and it can be helpful for a lot of teams to just get into doing what you do and forget about all the rest of the stuff that is going on around you. Before the season starts, there's time in your life for a lot of distraction. Not that you're seeking distraction, but you have the time to engage if you wanted to. Or, you know, it could seep in, even if you don't want it to, you don't want to engage. Like, there's so much downtime that it's going to creep in.

It's going to come through a crevice eventually, right? There's distraction. Once we start hitting the full road schedules and we're out and we're playing, you know, I don't know, forgive me, it's been a decade since I played in the league, but whatever amount of games you get to play in so many days on the road now, whatever that looks like, and we're traveling from city to city and we're getting in late, and we're sleeping in and we're sleeping in and we're having a breakfast meeting. Once you hit that and it becomes a habit, like that becomes what your body is used to doing by then and you click into that mode, there's less time for the distraction. There's less time for the noise. You're locked in. You're just right in that wave that you ride every year. So you start to hit your stride.

You start to emotionally connect to it. And it can be what you need at times to really focus, you know? And so some teams, I've been on teams where that wasn't necessarily the case, but really good teams, teams with stars. Sometimes you need that because to your point, there's so much going on around it. You know, like when we went, when I was with the Sixers and I, traveled, you know, with Alan Iverson and he was a rock star. I didn't, I mean, on the court, I envied Alan Iverson because he was, he was the MVP of the league. I mean, he did things that

no one could do. But I always watched how many people were pulling at him and how many people wanted time, not financial or anything like that, but just moments of time. And there are only so many in a day. I didn't envy that. I thought that had to be exhausting. I was like, wow, man, that's a lot. It would be hard to do that and then go out and do what he's doing on the court. And so sometimes just getting out there on the road and hoping and being with your teammates and stuff can kind of shield you from that. I want to play a game of, I'm just going to throw teams out, right? And we're just going to go all vibes. I just want to, we're not going to go off numbers. We're not going to do all. Just the vibe that you see following the league. I'm just going to throw you some teams. And we're going to see if their record, you know, matches their rap.

I want to go with the Miami Heat right now, right? Who are conversely 10 and 11 and have had some big wins, but also just not the type of season you would want after the season you had last year, you know, going to the Eastern Conference Finals. What is your vibe check on the Miami Heat? And where do you think that they're going to go? You're in the Miami area. You know what's up.

What is your vibe? What do you think about what's going on with their team? Logan, that's a tough one, man. The heat. So I always preface this by saying the heat are one of those teams that I trust from top to bottom, organizationally, to figure it out if there should be something wrong and get that thing pointed in the right direction. I am a little worried about them, though.

I mean, defensively, they are who they are, right? They continue doing their things. But I think they're in an interest in place with that roster offensively. and who's is it? Who's it going to be? You know, you've got young players in Tyler Hero and Bam out of bio. Does Bam take that next step into start them offensively? You know, what's Tyler sealing as an offensive carrier of the load?

You know, what are we going to get out of Kyle Lowry who, you know, you brought in and hasn't necessarily lived up to it all the way yet? if that's fair and I'm a Kyle Lowry fan. Where's Jimmy Butler? Jimmy Butler is sneakily older than people think. How much of that does he have left? And so I think they're trying to figure all of those things out. I'm concerned for them, but I ultimately would say I think they get it right. I think it's fixed.

I don't believe them to be a championship level team this year. But I do believe them at the end of the day to probably be a better than the average Eastern Conference team. They'll be fine. So when I see the Miami Heat, and again, this is 3,000 of miles away and on television and watching, you know, I think that it just seems like the Miami Heat are a race against time, right? Because no matter what they're doing this season, if they go to the playoffs, we already know what's going to happen. There's going to be an immense pressure on Jimmy Butler, you know, provided he's healthy, immense pressure on him to get the scoring done for them because what happens in the postseason? you have to you you you need a primary ball handling a primary score and jimmy butler is the only one on that roster so i just feel like every time i i just see them it's like they it seems like they're

the in the worst place you can be in the NBA which is the middle you know they're going to be good teams they're going to lose some curious games they're going to be good teams because they play hard, but at what point do they, and I know Pat's not going to do this, the Miami, he just don't do this, but at what point do they just say, we're going to, we got to figure this out another way. And we've kind of reached the end of the road with this group. And I don't know, like, I don't know the contract situations. I don't know where I'm not over there, but it just seems from, it just seems like a change at some point is going to have to be made or not, or shakeup. Some sort of shakeup is going to be needed on that roster for it to be championship level.

I would agree with you. Some of what you do as the Heat organization, well, not some of it. Most of what you do is a reflection of Pat Riley and his competitiveness and Eric Spolstress competitiveness. I think that you can also as a franchise feel the pulse of your city and what they respect and move accordingly. And, you know, Miami has this.

sneaky ability to have affection for teams like Philly does. It's weird. Yeah. Where, no, I mean, there are other places that have it to Utah's like this, too. Like, you ain't got to win a championship necessarily. But as long as you're pouring it out and we can see the blood like on the jersey at the end of the day and we're scrapping and we overachieve. They like meat potatoes like take their fucking lunch to work type. Miami for all its glitz and glamour and the whole like LeBron and D. Wade and shack and all and all of that's great.

too. We have that ability that Miami Knights type of Miami Vice feel, but they really do connect to like this the heat team in a way that's interesting because I do believe you to be right. They need a, I've said this for a long time. Jimmy Butler is fantastic. And he almost got you to the finals last year. And in the bubble, they were in the finals. But I think you're going to come up a little short. And I don't know that that's absolutely fair to Jimmy Butler because when I remember Jimmy playing, I don't know that Jimmy wants to have to do that. Do you know what I mean? Like I think I don't, that's a lot.

That load of just being consistent offensively 26 to 40 through a playoff grind when a team is scouting you and you got to see them every other night. Like that's real work. And you're a full-time defender. I don't know that Jimmy loves that. And so now, you know, bam is at about roughly 20 a game. Tyler Hero's an ascending player. He's at about 18 a game.

Jimmy's at 20.9, but I don't know what the ceiling is on BAM's offense. I don't know that he takes the torch and becomes that guy. Tyler Hero seems more likely from a skill set perspective, if that makes sense, just because he can do more with the ball,

but I don't know if he's consistent enough to take that next step into, hear what I'm saying, not like really, really good NBA player, but you know what I'm talking about, Logan. Elite. Elite. Elite.

And that's a difference. There's a difference there. There's a difference. You know, because this is, like, don't get me wrong, man. Miami's a good team. But I just feel like they have a lot of really, really, really good pieces. But you need more than really, really good pieces. It's like the Chicago Bulls syndrome.

We talked about this in previous years, right? A team that's going to give you a hard out might win 50 games throughout the regular season, but it's a totally different ballgame in the postseason. And I just see just a, I guess that's just a round of, about a way of seeing, I see that for the heat. I just see that for the heat going forward. No, it's an interesting comparison, but, you know, the bulls, yeah, except that, you know, the heat or more, have more established culture and they have better coach.

Yeah, for sure. So you have a slightly higher ceiling. Yeah. Let's talk about another team that I want to talk about is the Memphis Grizzlies, who I like, we both love John Morant and love what they got going. they're 12 and 8 at the moment and I just I guess my expectations for them

you know you go through what you went through last season I was expected something along the lines of just like you know what I go to say 18 and 2 start I was I was expecting something along the lines of that for this Memphis and Grizzlies team and they're a really good team and still probably could and are going to end up where they're supposed to be there's still a Western Conference Finals contender

it's really early but should I have been expecting that from that team? Just that, that blazing hot start to just show that like, yo, I'm here after, especially after what they went through last year, talking about how,

yo, man, we deserve to be at this place. If, if Jordan Poole doesn't, doesn't hit our guys knee, however fair or unfair that is, we should be up in the mix, right?

Right. Do you, do you think that they, am I over? Am I, do they still have growing paints to have? Or did I really just have too high of expectations? at this point?

I think it's a combination. Maybe your expectations were a little high, but I think, you know, what they've done over the last couple of seasons, it was semi-warranted. Like, you would have expected them if their trajectory stayed the same to take off. But maybe a little high,

and I think they're one of those cases of maybe being just a slightly ahead of schedule. So expectations are just maybe a little more than they're ready. to accomplish. I think that their team from a age and experience perspective

they're so similar across the roster you know, they're, how do I want to say this? I don't know how to articulate this. They don't, you know, I know they've brought in pieces and stuff, but they don't have a ton of guys that would help the younger players

expedite their their their trajectory yeah their arc of of of experience right like you haven't been in this situation yet but i have so let me sit down over this meal and let's talk this out here's how this works like so it doesn't slap you in the face when it when it comes around the block like yo check it out i was there in uh you know 20 you know 16 and 18 and 2019 and so here's what that looks like and people take that for granted but that that type of stuff means a lot i've always referenced my vets when when i talk about my career and what they meant to me in in terms of being a pro and not that any of those guys aren't pros that's not what i'm saying what i'm saying is i think because they're so aligned in this window of time that they're all just learning together they're all

just kind of you know riding together and no one's kind of pulling them up out of and pulling them into the to the to the type of stratosphere that you think they should be in right now and i would wanted that for them someone someone like that and so what happens is like they came back this year and they just you know they forgot about defending you know they just straight out yeah they just forgot about fucking they from you know you start to put the cart before the horse you forget about what what was really important and we're all guilty of that in basketball it's one of my biggest gripes i i go off on tangents about it all the time what sells tickets what i what i see from the Memphis Grizzlies on Sports Center. No seriously.

I saw John Morant going up and then going under two people and scooping it on the other side. I see lobs. You know, that's all I see. I think I'm sensing an AAU rant from Roger coming right now. This is going to be an AAU rant. It's going to be a priority rant. And so what you forget about in the midst of being this really, really good team that the world kind of falls in love with because they're all these highlights is what got you to be the good team that people would turn on the TV to watch to see the highlights. and what that was was your fucking defense. You know, it's, you brought up something when you were talking just in terms of like having the middle vets, right?

Like say like the 30 to 31 year old vet who can still play like, I think as soon as you said that I just thought about Andre Aguadala. Like, yeah. Not right now, but like Andre Goddala seven, eight years ago. A guy like that, right? Sure. But every time I think about this Memphis team, I think about the Oklahoma City Thunder, like the back in the day, right?

Who I, in my mind, obviously they had three future Hall of Famers on the team, right? It's totally different in that way. But more of what I'm saying in line of is when the Oklahoma City Thunder probably had as perfect of a rise as you can have, right? 2010, what do they do? They're an eighth seed, puts the eventual champion Lakers to the brink, right? Go to six games. that 2011 season, what do they do? They go to the Western Conference finals

and I think they lose to the Dallas Mavericks that next year, right? Gradual transition. What do they do the next year after that? They go all the way to the conference. They go all the way to the finals. They lose it in Miami Heat, but that is the gradual thing that you want to see.

But what did they have? And this is something that you brought up, Raja. They had the middle type of vets that you speak about. That's why they traded Jeff Green for Kendrick Perkins. It wasn't because, of just like talent versus talent, it's because you needed a guy in the locker room to, in your your eyes, just like, pull these guys into, into, you know, the next level. And is that what you mean when you talk about, like maybe there's a trade for the, uh, Bifis Grizzies at some point,

right? Like, there's something that they need to do. Maybe trade away a guy that you might think on paper. This is kind of odd, but you bring in another guy that can kind of just like, hey, guys, sit down. I'm the leader right here. I'm going to show you guys how to do this. 100% Stephen Adams helps with that, right? I don't mean to discount how important he is. But when you look at the rest of that roster, it's kind of a duplication of itself in terms of experience and age. And so, yeah, you do need that.

And I think you hit the nail on the head, Logan, and I've been reluctant to say it, but I do think they're a trade away from something. And you might have to give up one of the pieces. Obviously, there's certain pieces you don't want to move, but you're going to need that stability, man. Like think about what C.J. McCollum did when he got to New Orleans. Yep.

You know, you had ascending, like John Moran is an ascending star. Soon enough, he's going to be a grizzled vet, right? Brandon Ingram was turning into that right before our eyes, but bringing in someone like CJ just helps him get there that much quicker. And so I think that it's, it's been. discounted in the roster construction process at times. I don't know if that's a byproduct of the analytic wave of general managers, like guys that they came up, not necessarily on the court. They came up, you know, through video rooms and through learning the game from the other side of it.

And there's nothing wrong with that at all. But I'm just spitballing. Maybe there's, you know, when some guys tell you, they go off a feel and the analytic crowd says, it's not about feel. it's about the analytics. Well, it's really about a combination of the two. So maybe it's been discounted because they don't have the feel of, hey, man, I used to sit at dinner with DeKembe Matumbo. And he used to kick game to me over a meal in Atlanta. Or like, you know, Mike Finley, you know, taught me how to buy suits

and talk to me about, you know, his time in the gym with Tim Grover and MJ on the plane and what their summers look like. And so I could go home and model that, you know, to the best of my ability. And crazy, how much gaming getting just like five minutes from that's just like, They're not, they're just spitballing, maybe in a rant or event session or something. They just spitballing and then you just get like tons of game. You're getting gems, man, Walt Williams, Nick Van Exel, Aaron McKee, like dudes that were just, real talk, were just looking out for a young buck.

They didn't even know what that meant. And so I just think it gets discounted in the roster construction process at times. And Memphis, it's a great call. They're probably a trade for a piece away. You know who's a great name? And he's, Jay Crowder. Yes. Yes. Yes. Grissel vet.

Grissel vet kind of like, I say this with all the affection in the world, just nasty, kind of, you know, would get down, grimy, skilled, been there. He's also going to have Jaws back of Jockis and newest scrimmers. You're like, hold on, relax. You ain't going to do fuck with my teammate like that, right? Like he's going to be one of the,

so the question of that is, when do you make such a move? Because you reference New Orleans making a move, and they made that move for CJ mid-Cid. season, right? And it's a different scenario for that Pelicans team because they weren't fully, they didn't have their full squad. And it was kind of one of those things where we're trading for CJ for next season, which

is the season we're currently and now we're waiting for Zion to come back, waiting for all these pieces to come back. For a team like Memphis, who has a lot more eyes on it than Pelicans, which means a lot more moves are going to be scrutinized, when do you make that move? Do you make that move in the off season? do you make that move to this season to figure it out that way? What do you do? What goes into a trade like that and what's the timing on something?

I don't have the answer for that necessarily. I think it's a feel within your organization. It's a feel that the general manager and his group of trusted people get from the interaction that the team is having with the coaches. You know, you're watching everything. Is the message still getting across? Is there still buying? and our vibes still high.

Like, where are we at in this process? Because I also talk about it being really hard to sustain and not necessarily get over that hump. You know, it's hard to sustain anything. But, you know, remember we talked about Quinn Snyder with the jazz. I think Quinn Snyder's a fantastic coach. But I also said that message is old. Like that, you know, that style of play,

they haven't gotten over the hump with it. And you can see now that it's old. So I'm watching all those things if I'm around that Memphis team. and I don't have the answer as to whether it has to be now or in the offseason or at the trade deadline. They should know when the time is right. And I would just, today's NBA is they don't seem scared to pull deals and make trades and try to take a big swing. So I wouldn't be afraid to do it. I do think that if something good were to happen in this next tradable window here, I think that I think that would be interesting.

you know, I wouldn't be afraid to do. I think it would be really interesting for us. And I think I think John Moran's ready, but I do think he needs a little help. I mean, the kid Bain is, he's great, fantastic. But I mean,

he's less experienced than Jha. Yeah. So, you know, I think you need, I think you need to give them some help in that regard. Let's say a quick break, and we're going to talk about another team that is taking a big swing and it's looking like a big miss.

All right, Raja. So I watched one game yesterday. I watched highlights of one game yesterday. And it was the Timberwolves versus the Warriors. And we already talked about the Warriors side of it. Let's talk about the Timberwolf side of this situation. So, Roger, you know, the Timberwolves are currently 10 and 10. And this is a team that traded a boatload of picks for one Rudy Gobert.

and then told us this was, you know, this is their title window, which was news to everyone in the league because we didn't know that they had a window in general right now, but they said this is the, we're going to give up all these picks and all these players to get Rudy Gobert. We're going to put him alongside Carl Anthony Towns and put him alongside this group, and this is going to give us a championship, right? And on the surface, it looked like this was a team, just got bought by Alex Rodriguez and his group. And it had all the fixings to me of a new group just trying to make a splash in any way they can. And they were going to make a new deal.

They were going to, the first deal that came that seemed promising, they were going to take. it. I don't care how they spin it. It just has not worked out. And the Minnesota Timberwolves aren't winning a championship. They're not getting anywhere close to it. They just don't have the infrastructure. Why do you, is there a friend here with new ownership or is there, what do you see as to why they would make a move like this? And now that we're a few months in, do you think that there's any, any chance that the Timberwolves can write this ship. This is going to be a short segment.

It was a dumb move. We all know that, right? It was a stupid move. I don't have a great answer as to why they did it. I've always told Steve Kerr said to me once when he came in and he told me about having this small window of opportunity to kind of affect change when you take over something. And if you, if you miss that. And so maybe they were thinking along those lines. I don't, I don't know how you thought Rudy Goberra was necessarily the, the answer there.

I don't know. I don't know. They've got a couple pieces that they have to figure out, that they have to figure out how to make work together at a super high level. And they're on their way. They're on their way. I mean, it was a nice little story last year. And I think Carl Anthony towns numbers are a little bit down but you know Anthony Edwards are slightly up and so they're fine like we have to figure that out and then and then there's just work there's just work to do I mean they're just not there yet so I guess I guess what they tried to sell you on was the problem was they're trying to sell you on them being closer to something than they are I'm not saying it's a tragedy or anything like that you just ain't where you said you were going to be like that's not that move

didn't get you as close to a championship as you as a as a franchise tried to sell us on it just felt like, and we know this, it just felt like they were lying to us, but more importantly, though, it felt like the timbreals were lying to themselves. It were just blatantly just, just

lying to, because it was just very clear that this was not going to happen. And it just seemed like it was a pattern overall, right? Because, you know, you already have Carl Anthony Towns. He's a really good player. I don't know if he's, I don't know if he's elite.

but I think he's a really good player, right? Then you trade for DeAngelo Russell. You trade for DeAngelo Russell, trade Andrew Wiggins for that piece, right? And then just to appease Carl Anthony Towns and then you draft Anthony Edwards, who would, duh, you draft Anthony Edwards. He's one of the best.

He's still cold, right? And it just seemed like the Timberwolves just lacked patience. And I know that in this league, you can't have much patience. You know, if a deal's in front that you feel like is going to happen, these deals don't come around a lot. You know, you have to make a move. But how much patience is needed in today's NBA when you're trying to build a team?

Yeah, I mean, a lot of patience is needed. Logan, you're going to, you know, the balance between the patience and trying to win is the sweet spot. Like, that's what you're trying to figure out because you have to have, some level of patience to let things materialize. Like, see, I like, you know, I like some of the things. Like, I like Bryn Forbes.

And I like Kyle Anderson. Like, I liked pieces like that for, for them. I didn't like giving up everything to get Rudy Gobert. But, I mean, what I guess what I'm saying is I wasn't, aside from the Rudy Gobert and independent of the Rudy Gober, I wasn't, I wasn't all the way mad at what they were doing. Like, I wasn't, it wasn't like I couldn't see what they were trying to do. it's just not producing in the way you would have hoped if you were them.

And so you have to be patient with that because that doesn't mean that that doesn't mean that something right around the corner might not unlock that potential. I don't know what it is. I mean, but you can't just be knee jerk all over the place, right? And just keep putting, you know, good money after bad. And now you're digging a deeper and deeper hole. At some point, you got to sit back and say, all right, this is what it looks like. let's watch it for a while.

Let's take the long approach to this, right? And let's really figure out a good solid plan. Instead of just kind of trying to slap tape on every little hole that springs up, you know, let's repair it. And so, you know, but we're talking about stability of franchise now. And I've often talked about dysfunction starting from the top. And when I talk about that, there are a few franchises in the NBA that are at the tip of my tongue. historically Minnesota has been one of them and you know I just I'd be really interested to see after

that move you made last summer for Rudy Gobert what ownership does this summer coming up like what are you guys going to do around the trade deadline what are you going to do this summer coming up Raj I got news for you you just got hired got a stupid bag from the Minnesota Timberwolves just got hired as their their VP of basketball operations yeah somehow they let you stay in Miami and just work but you know you are you are you are um you've now just been hired. What is your first move? Yeah, that's not fair, man,

because, like, I don't know what they're, I don't know anything about their cat. What's Rudy Gobert? I'm trying to look at Rudy Gobert's deal right now. Like, he's, I don't know, dude. Don't do that to me. That's tough, man. I don't know.

Right, right now, I don't have many moves to make. Like, Rudy's locked up. So basically, you're like, I'm cool. I'm going to stay in Miami. It's what you said. Yeah, I don't want that job. I'm cool. I don't want that job.

You know, I think, though, that the one thing you're going to have to take a look at, if I'm being honest, is what Carl Anthony Towns could command out there. Like, what does he look like on the market? I will say this. There has been, like, a lot of talk around the league just about, you know, I don't think, I don't know if it's going to happen, but this is more of just like observers in the league,

not necessarily Minnesota in general, but observers in the league. I've heard multiple people just be like, yo, man, Just trade everyone and build around ant. Just start new, and it's fine. Just figure it out from there. Because I think that the Timberwolves are caught between like two eras right now. You know, Carl Towns has been there for a minute. Hasn't really done much.

She's gotten like a couple of playoff appearances. But there has just been talk around the league of just like, oh man, why don't you start over? Like you guys have a new, a new, you have this guy who's clearly good and Anthony Edwards and has this talent. I'll just do that. Yeah, but I mean, I could see that. And I mean, but then you had the perfect opportunity. You were brand new.

Now, you really didn't. They put you between a rock and a hard place because they were in the playoffs last year. So you can't come in as new ownership and say, hey, guess what, guys? We're taking it down to the studs. They're like, what? We were just, we're in the playoffs.

So you were kind of stuck. You made the move. You got fleeced by damn Danny Hange again. Damn it. Danny A's out there, like, Danny A's shouldn't be on some wanted posters out there somewhere. Swindling. Yeah. But now you are where you are.

No. I mean, in a vacuum, I don't want Rudy Gobert. I don't want Rudy Gobert. But again, like only having spent one year in the front office and not knowing the contractual details and stuff. I don't know how you move that. I don't know who wants Rudy Gober at the price that you're going to probably be asking because of what you had to give up to get him. Can you dig what I'm saying? Yeah.

So that would have, but then, yeah, I mean, I'm looking at what, I'm not saying I have to move Carl Anthony Towns, but I'm looking at to see what that looks like. I mean, he's still a really good player. To your point, maybe not elite, but, you know, Andrew Wiggins was supposed to be elite when they drafted him. He didn't wind up being elite, but he was a integral part to a championship run on a very good team. That doesn't look great. That doesn't look great for your team. If somebody you trade away, just flourishes in the way that Wiggins is flourished. That's an indictment. He's been so good that you almost forget that he was a terminal wolf, right? Like he's clearly established in another organization and to play. Oh, like, oh, yeah, he did play for the Timberwolves before this. Right. Right. But Cat might be able to do that too.

Cat might be able to be a piece that a team is out there just salivating, you know, and licking their chops in an opportunity to get because he pairs great with something they got. And then, boom, you're moving. So, I mean, that's probably what I do. That's a, you know, I don't like to talk about Minnesota. I know. It's fine. I got a little tiff real quick that I got to get off my chance before we get out of here. You're a fan of Atlanta, right?

Yeah. You love Atlanta. Let's go down in Atlanta real quick. Let's go kick it. Let's go to Hartsfield. Let's go to Hartsfield Airport. Let's go, you know, a little Delta Pass. But so I'm watching the game, the Hawks game.

Actually, I'm not watching Hodge's game. Kerm sends me this clip because Kerm is the greatest. And he sends me this clip basically of just like how the Jonté Murray. like the hawks are up 10 on the on the rockets who i just love the rockets as a bad team they're one of my favorite bad teams i love watching them play um but jante murray like is high side and they're up 10 throws a um those a pass to uh to treyo and they hit a three they're doing they're up 16 they're they're they're talking big shit like they've done something you know and All of a sudden, Kevin Porter and Jalen Green all get into it with,

with Trey and DeJante, who just look arrogant as ever. Just look very, just like, you know, we're the kings in this. You guys are just little homies, you know, you guys don't know. Yeah, y'all don't know none about this league, right? Y'all little, y'all small. We're the best team. We're going to go on and close this out, except the Rockets want to run and beat the Atlanta Hawks. Right?

And I just, I just get so annoyed with the hawks sometimes because I just feel like they have, they have so much talent and they just get in their own way with their arrogance. And I don't, I didn't like what I saw there, Raja. I don't like, I don't like what I see out of Atlanta, bro. Like, I feel like they could be so much better than they are, but there's just so much just either infighting or weirdness going on. It's just a team that I just, I just get constantly disappointed in. okay what um what what what you're telling me something like i i i mean i've i've always i haven't necessarily felt like that about the hawks but they've always been a team for me that it's just a solid NBA team nothing nothing more nothing less i think your frustration is that what you're

saying what you're saying is like if you got to be better than that if you go have that much attitude and shit talking on your team but we live in a day and age where like it's all shit talking an attitude. Why do every, okay, you're out, you're out here and this is not even a Hawks thing, but you're like, you're out here in these, in these, in these, allow me, allow me. I apologize. Okay, allow me. Allow me. Let me allow me. I have a young high school basketball team. Yes, you do. They're young. Very young. My best player wasn't here this weekend. So my young basketball team went into their first game, thinking they were a lot better than they were.

And we lost that. We didn't execute anything that we worked on, you know, for the whole preseason. No, I shit you not. Like nothing, absolutely nothing. We looked like we had never played basketball before. But some of that is you're young, right? And so hopefully when I get you back in practice the next day, we can realize, hey, hey, we were, we thought we were a little better than we were.

Let's put our nose back down and let's get back to work. But no, no, no, not us. We were in there to use a Logan term, catting off. like just acting like we were with these world beaters. So what I did was said, hey, listen, guys, I have a really good AAU team. You know,

they're in the eighth grade. I'm going to bring them in the scrimid show. Oh, you ain't, no, you ain't going to do that. No, you guys, so yeah, brought them in on Saturday, hired some refs, got after it. We beat them.

Our eighth grade team beat them. So you hired some refs already? That's okay, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, we went there this weekend. My eighth grade team did their thing. But, you know, we've worked with them for a long time, and a lot of them have bought them. in. So it was good, a good thing. So after the game, I'm talking to my son, Ty, and he's like,

hey, dad, those kids were talking so much shit. And I said, what? I was like, Ty, you, the team that you just beat, like the kids, they were talking shit to you the entire game? He said, dad, they, like, any named a few kids, I won't say any names. But this is to support what you're saying. In the midst of being beaten by a younger squad, these cats was really. running their mouths. I couldn't for the life of me get over it. It haunted me all night. Like, I drank multiple bourbons thinking about that shit. Like, they were really out there. That's how much work I have to do as a coach. I clearly failed them. But you're out there talking shit in the process of getting beat?

Raja, I just, I'm a little younger than you, right? A lot younger than you. But I just thought that there were rules to the game, Raja. I just thought that there were just rules to be followed, you know, like not necessarily, just, you know, the unwritten rules. I'm talking about, dog. You know what I mean, man. Codes are a thing of the past. I thought there was codes, bro. Like, if you're, you know, a team that hasn't done anything before, you, you can't

really talk shit like that, you know? And if you do talk shit to a young team, like y'all not here yet, at least win the game. Look, when, yes, I subscribe to. This is just where I'm at. This is just where I'm just, maybe I'm getting old, starting to get old and washed, which is fair. We, we're all getting old. But I just feel like there was just, there's just, you know what I hate rules out here, bro. Let's go on this A you shit.

Let's go. Let's do it. Do not. And it happens in every gym I walk into, but I can't believe it, bro. I get so angry. Why are you out here throwing threes to your dome after you hit a three and you're down 27? Brow. What the fuck are you doing?

Like, that's, no, you know what it is? What are we doing? It goes back to your old point, bro. We only, we don't ever show highlights of the charges anymore, bro. We don't ever show highlights of, man, I don't know. Winning, winning plays. We don't have to be a charge. Winning plays should be highlighted.

Yeah. We saw the dunk, but we also saw, like, when we saw when we watched the TV, we saw the dunk you had, but also we saw you miss, like, three or four backdoor cuts in a row. I'm sorry, man. I'm just, I know we get some back here, but I was just really pissed off about this. Like, Kerm,

OG Kerm had this as like the top of the show, right? Like, was like talking about this. And I didn't know if I wanted to get into it just yet, right? Because I just didn't want to unlock this out, right? It's November. We're getting to the holiday season, holiday cheer. But fuck that, man.

Let me let it all out. We need to get back. There we go. I'm going on one more. I'm going on one more. Let's get it. It's the celebratory, like, I'm down, 27 and I'm celebrating this, this meaningless jump shot. Like, um, it's the most individual with no

pressure. Yeah, it's the most individual, um, F my team. I'm selfish type of move ever. But everyone does it. Um, the, the, the, the, the, the, the shit talking when, when you're losing and consistently getting roasted and you're still running your mouth. Like, I didn't talk shit to anybody. Like, I had a couple moments where like, I would, like, if I was into it with you, I might nose to nose with you and run my mouth, but I wasn't an incessant shit talker. This is the thing. And this is what you were around you. This is just based on clips that I've seen. You was just ready at all times for the smoke.

It wasn't an argumentative. Like somebody sent me, I don't know who it was. Shout out to you for sending this to me and putting this in my mentions. Of Raja in a 2010-2011 game against Kobe. And like he's literally just knows that it's Kobe. And he literally says, you know what the fuck I am. I've seen that clip. That clip's been going around Twitter, right?

And like I'm the butt of a lot of jokes because Kobe gave me. Kobe didn't know who I was. But what people don't know about that is the night before, I think that game, that was, I had, the night before Kobe and I had talked. And, you know, when we got to the game that day, we, we had talked a lot. Like, we were sharing some stories. We were having a good time. And when we got into that game, shit went sideways pretty quick. So it wasn't like, you guys were buds at that point.

Yeah, we were cool. But it just got sideways real quick. You know what I mean? So, like, there was a little more to that story. But let me tell you the last thing. Yes, I was, so I played with an underdog spirit at all times. It was the only way I could survive, right? So like I had to always be on edge, feeling disrespected, feeling like other people didn't

think I was good enough. It's what fueled me. So that's kind of the way you see me in every clip you ever see with me playing basketball because that's the way I learned how to survive out there. But the other thing that really bothers me about young basketball players, and I've got my young son, Zen, who's on a fifth grade team. And, you know, I don't have anything to do with their team other than sitting in the stands and watching, right? And so I can have my opinions and, you know, I sit there and cheer for them and so on and so forth. And then I'm around these little jokers, like an hour later, they're either in my car or they're over at the house or whatever.

and it's like if my dad will show up to the house or one of my homies comes over and they ask him how the game goes, oh, I had 18. How the fuck do you know how you had 18? How did you know that? How do you know that? You shouldn't know that. If you're really hooping, you shouldn't know that. Like, and I hate the score.

You check the box score in like in the pros or in like college, maybe high school. You're checking a box score in a raggedy-ass fifth grade AAU game. That means you ran over to the score. his table after the game that shows where your priorities are, right? Like that's what's on your mind. As the game winds down, I got to get over there and get a look at how many buckets I got. Or worse, you've been counting them shits the whole game. I think that's the most selfish thing.

I think I cringe every time a kid can tell me how many points they got. Real talk. I think it's shitty. And all my teams, I don't give no, I don't give out MVP awards. I don't give out all tournaments. Any tournament director who's ever come to me over the last seven years will tell you, I don't do any of that shit. because all it does is promote individuality

and anti-team, like, feelings. And I'm not into that. Like, I think that shit should be, your team should be your focus, bro. Keep your head down and let's hoop. Sorry. Let's hoop. No, no, let's hoop, man.

That is the story of this Monday Real-Oons. We're back. Let's fucking hoop, man. All right. We'll see you guys. That's another edition of Monday Real Ones, okay? All right. Let's put another edition of Monday Real ones.

We're back twice a week. We'll see you guys on Thursday. keep it locked man make sure you check us out Mondays and Thursday we'll see you guys later in the week man

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