The Ringer NBA Show - Warriors Outlast Lakers. Plus, Ja Morant Controversy Continues. | Real Ones

Episode Date: April 4, 2025

The Warriors defeated the Lakers Thursday night thanks to Steph Curry dropping 37 and Brandin Podziemski hitting eight 3s. Logan and Raja discuss what this means for both teams and whether they are championship contenders (5:30). Ja Morant was fined $75k for finger gun pointing gestures.—how will his reputation affect his career and image (19:04)? Russell Westbrook had a couple blunders late in the game Wednesday night when the Nuggets fell to the Timberwolves in double OT. Has the criticism for Russ been fair or foul (35:40)? The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer/Audio: Clifford Augustin Video Producer: Victoria Valencia Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit rg dash help.com. Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe show. That's right. I'm back to have the same in-depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games. Yeah, the games, the X's and O's, the drama, the trades, the playoffs are coming up. And now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel.

Episodes drop every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're going to love. So make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand new Zach Lowe show on Spotify or wherever you watch or listen to your podcast. Let's go. Spavitt Ruins. Logan Burdock here. Roger Bill there. Friday vibes are upon us. Try to get some small talking with Roger.

He said, let's fucking go. It's fucking pod, dude. Let's fucking do this. Let's go. I was my bad. I was going to say, I've been at Waffle House for the last hour with my parents, small talking. So like, it was great.

My grits were on point. It was great. You wiping the nose, too? We got the. I'm bobby, dog. I am Bobbin. I'll hear. Yeah, no, it's good.

It was Waffle House was good. Thanks for it. Wait, okay. Can you, could you just dispel a myth from, from our, me and my fellow West Coasters who just see nothing but viral videos from Waffle House. about like the tomfoolery that goes there, goes on there, or maybe like, can you just dispel some of that stuff as a Florida resident?

I've been to Waffle House and I've had great experience as Waffle House, but like apparently it's also lit at Waffle House and it goes down at Waffle House. Can you just dispel some rumors for the listening to audience? The Waffle House is just like a microcosm of like society, right? Like there's some good apples. there's some bad apples. There's some places you should be after 11 o'clock. And there's some places you're not supposed to be after 11 o'clock.

And if you operate accordingly, you stay out of trouble. Waffle house is no different, right? Like there are waffle houses that project like class and cleanliness. There are Waffle houses that don't. There are awful houses that see cleaning is just like sliding somebody across the dieter, right? Fact. But like, I mean, I, like, I walk into one of those and I walk out. Like, you got eyes.

So, like, if you walk in and the crease traps running and there's shit all over the floor and none of the dishes are clean behind the counter, get up and leave the mofo. But, you know, generally speaking, our Waffle houses around here are actually pretty good, man. Like, there are some, you know, where, you know, if it's two, three in the morning, you know, you don't know what you're going to run. run into in a Waffle House, but I'd make the argument with a little bit of age on me. You're supposed to be home and bed at 2 and 3 in the morning anyway. Yeah. I'll tell you. Bad shit's going to happen at 2 or 3 in the morning, potentially.

I'll tell you about 2 a.m.'s theory, off air. I don't think it's a pro. Okay. I'm a, I'm a Waffle House supporter, dog. I was a Waffle House. I had a Waffle House that, I lived in Atlanta for a summer. I mean, that's what you eat there. It's literally what you eat there.

It was great. I had a blast there. I had nothing but good experiences. But, you know, when I left Atlanta, I was like, this isn't the Waffle House that I grew in love for these three months. You know, this isn't what I seen from the local community of the establishment. What's going on here? I don't know.

Anyways, that's how you milk the first three minutes of a podcast, ladies together. We are here to talk about basketball. A lot of great things that happened last night. It was a really fun basketball night. I mean, Lakers Warriors was going to talk about. Biffithis, which we are also going to talk about with a big win with Jha. Yonis had a monster night.

What? What? That's a big win for them. Yeah, they were, they sucked. They sucked down the stress. They beat the heat. Okay, fair. All right.

Well, the heat were hot. They were like, they were hot. Yeah, but like, okay. I mean, it's smart. Listen, I'll give it to you. I'm going on. It's a night in Miami. It was not expecting this.

Let's just be real. We're not expecting this. Let me kill him my opening monologue. Jesus. John has had a really great night. I just want to give space to that. I don't know how much we're going to talk about it, but he had a really good night.

Our guy, I don't know if he's a friend of the show, but he is definitely, we're a fan of his. Anthony Edwards just went down with an ankle injury, which is tough. We'll see what goes on with him. But let's talk about the Lakers and the Warriors to start. Then we're going to talk a little job. That we're going to talk a little rust.

That we're going to have a little branded segment. I didn't even like, shout out everybody else. Shout on Victoria on the video and a cliff on the boards. But Lakers Warriors, Warriors won. They are 20 and four since the Jimmy Butler trade. They now have a path to the three seed, according to playoff status, was very impressive win on the road. The last game of a two-week road trip

And the first night of a back-to-back, you know what a league got you fucked up when you fly from Memphis to Los Angeles for a game and then you have a back-to-back at home as your first game back from a road trip, but they're thugging it out. What did you learn, Rajah, from each team last night? Watch it.

Yeah, I mean, they're both going to be very formidable playoff teams. I think I learned from both of them, like just watching that. They both need to take care of the ball. You know, they both got loose with the ball in certain situations that put them in real interesting spots. You know, the Lakers weren't able to overcome it. Golden State was able to overcome it a little bit.

I think that, you know what's interesting, man? Like Golden State weirdly, because I thought they were great. I thought Steph looked, he looked a little banged up. I know he still had 37. He made some incredible plays, but he didn't look like he was moving great. Um, you know, he, he, he didn't look like, uh, he had the, the juice necessarily, which is wild to say and still have 37 and he still, he was also, he was also covering off a cross-country flight after he scored 50. So like, no, no, no, I'm not, that's a tough,

that's a tough thing to ask. Not a knock. Not a knock at all. No, listen, I'm the biggest fan there is. I'm not knocking and I'm just telling you what I saw, right? So like, he looked a, He looked a little slower than normal. Pajensky had a phenomenal game and really, really carried him. Like, I thought the tail of the game was him and Kaminga and the support that they were able to give, which brings me to my other point, which is if they're going to be the team that we think that they can be and be a real threat, they got to get more at a Jimmy Butler. They have, they have in certain instances.

He was great defensively and all over the floor and stuff like that, but there are going to be times in the playoffs where Steph is going to not have the juice and still have his 30 and change. But you're not going to get the Kaminga and Pajemski game together. And the question is where's the production going to come from? And it's going to, I mean, it's Jimmy Butler, right? So like, it's going to be real interesting tonight. And I had this kind of theory as I was watching the game last night.

Like, I wonder because they have Denver tonight because he did not look aggressive at all. Like, if you watch the game, he was like in chill mode, like offensively that is. is like and just kind of facilitate and getting in the paint, kicking it out. And Steph carried. And so then I wonder tonight if he like flips the switch and he's the one that carries a little bit more offensively. And if they were playing that game, like kind of like, hey, we'll save you tonight if we can. You know, I don't know. But they'll need him to find his way in that offense.

And I know he has since he's been there, but it's going to have to be really consistent in the playoffs because, you know, they just have to have that. And then from the Lakers, from the Lakers, let's see, you know, Braun looked good. Luca has not been great offensively. He's flashed, but like he hasn't been great offensively. He's got to stay in front of people. He just got to stay in front of people. Steph was cooking him.

Steph was cooking him on every switch. Yeah. I mean, everyone's going to hunt it. Steph, Steph, no different than anybody else in the league. Luca did a good job a couple of times. But then he has these like five or six. possessions a game where like he's just going to let you go and they're not built to withstand that with like an interior presence defensively it puts a lot of pressure though like it's still like obviously

he we always worry about his conditioning and stuff but you really see it on a defensive end when he has those five minutes stretches when he does that like do you see it as like as a as a conditioning issue or do you see it as just a lack of effort yeah i don't think he's ever going to be an elite level defender right like so i think it's a combination of the team too. Like, one might cause the other. Like, it might be lack of effort because of the shape. You know, I don't have an answer to that. I don't think he's like the most locked into defensively ever, but it becomes even harder to make that extra slide when you're carrying more weight than you should carry, right? And let's say we live in a world where, like, a few

nights ago, they got the support from the threes, like, you know, everybody, I don't know, where were they, they have 12 threes, like, off the bench or something like that, whatever that was. I forget the game. But when they're cooking like that, you know, those few possessions don't expose you in that way. But last night, they weren't shooting the ball great outside of, like, Austin Reeves and LeBron. And those possessions become really, really magnified because we can't withstand that. not getting in the point production. So it's two, it's two things with the Lakers. Like,

he's got to defend better singularly because I think around him there's some really good pieces. But like, they also, they also have to find a consistent, either their big three has to be great. Austin Reeves, LeBron, and Luca have to be great together. And you don't get the support. Or they've got to find bench guys to give them real support. Like Kaminga did the Kaminga outscored, probably outscored their bench last night. Like he was, he was, he was, was great. Bigga had 18 points. I don't know.

Yeah, he did ask what a difference. Yeah, God, the bitch was terrible. Yeah, like Gabe, Gabe Vincent gave you nothing. Finney Smith gave you 0 for 5-3s. Vanderbilt gave you nothing, but Vanderbiltz not a score necessarily, but you need, like, those five threes

you need to hit three and those five if you do that changes the game. It changes the game. A couple of things on that. One, and I think you're going to test it as when you see it, the Lakers just came out. flat, generally speaking, right? They didn't look like they came up.

They were up for a game like this, which is wild, right? And one thing that was interesting is like LeBron wasn't aggressive to start this game at all, right? He scored 22 in the second half, but he came out flat and just, and a lot of the house to do with, like, he's now taking a backseat to Luca. And I think there is a recognition that Luca is a number one offense, a number one option within the offense for the Lakers right now. But it was really weird to see LeBron be passive. And he can do this to start games. This isn't something that we have seen. Sometimes he works his way into games.

Sometimes players do that. But I think in a game like last night, I would have wanted to see LeBron kind of recognize where the game was going earlier on and probably attack more. Because I feel like if they attack more to start, they would have given more respect to the fact that the Warriors are better than the last time they played him. Right? I don't think they gave them that respect.

And the Warriors blitzed them time and time again. They hunted Luca on the pick and roll. Pazimski had like a weird legacy game. Like, you're not going to get that. I've watched the Warriors all the time. You're not going to get that for Pons every night. In fact, he hasn't been shooting the ball well for the majority of the season. So to see a Pons game like that was like, whoa, this was definitely an outlier for them, right?

Which is why, like, I see, I feel like this was a. a game where you learned a lot, it didn't learn much at all, right? Like, if you learned that the Warriors are better than they were earlier this season, but in a playoff series, like, this is just one game. I don't think this, this really tells you so much about these two teams in a playoff series going up against each other. I think it'll still be a long series and they'll figure it out. Another point that I wanted to go back to was Jimmy Butler and his scoring prowess or lack there of at some points. You know, his big M.O. One, he's not particularly a great score

during the regular season in terms of, like he doesn't get a lot of like, he's not going to average 35 points over a stretch in January. This is not how he's built. His career averages around 19 a game. Since he's been with the Warriors, he's been hovered around 17, 18 points a game. Like, he's a guy that is the ultimate star in his role.

He's going to do whatever it is. He can get a shot whatever he wants to, but he's going to do whatever it is the offense. tells him that he needs to do. So I would expect an uptick in his production going into the postseason. We've seen that with the heat. But I am curious to see, because you watched him more with the heat that I've watched him now with the Warriors, right?

When does he flip that switch in your eyes? And when does he need to do it earlier? Because I don't know if last night's game necessarily suggested it, because Pons balled out, Kibinga balled out. I don't know what the balance is for him right there. Because I know watching Jimmy Butler in a small sample size with Golden State offense is that he's going to see what the offense gives him and the defense gives him, he's going to act accordingly to that.

He hit timely shots last night. What's the balance that he's going to have to have going forward? But he's not necessarily looking for a shot all the time. He's facilitating playing defense. Yeah, that's a, I mean, balance is the operative word there and finding it. in Miami, he was the number one option. So when you're the number one option, I mean, everyone else is trying to balance what they do off of what you do.

Right. So you don't really have to worry about how you kind of get in and get out of this double dutch that is like chemistry offensively. So he didn't have to worry about that in the way that he does with Golden State because obviously it's Steph-centric. And he's trying to figure out, and you could see that. You saw him last night trying to figure out how he gets in, you know, and how he's going to point produce.

And I don't have the answer to like when he's going to have to do that. And like there's, I don't think there actually is an answer. He's just going to have to have a really good feel for tonight's the night. And on the flip side of that, like Steve Kerr is going to have to have a feel. And I feel confident about this because, you know, I think Stephen Golden State has shown an ability historically to be to be very detailed, especially when you condense like the amount of time in between games and you and you're playing the same team over and over game to really strategize because, you know, you're not going to get like last night wasn't an open court game. Jimmy wasn't

getting the open court buckets. Like the game, the game for him at least was played in the offensive, like in the front court. And I saw, you know, they were trying to get him a few. There's a lot of top locking going on when you got Steph running off of all of these screens. They put him on the nails. Yeah, so you get this switch where he gets someone switched on him and he's probably smaller and he's already on his top shoulder. So Jimmy's just trying to hold him off and you're trying to throw that pass over the top

to him a few times. And last night was probably a bad example because so many of those passes went awry. Like there were probably like four or five opportunities that he would have had the ball in his operating space that he didn't get because of a turnover. But they're going to have to come up with another way to get him the ball. Yeah. I guess what I'm saying. That can't be your only bread and butter because that's a very low percentage pass where he's catching it.

Sometimes, as you saw last night, when it works, it works. When it doesn't, it doesn't. So they're going to have to scheme away. Randy Boss, like. Yeah, on the catch. Yeah, on the catch, you're asking him to be Randy Moss and now he's in his ISO mode. So look, this isn't a panic button. This is in, these are details.

When you're talking about we got four or five teams we think can win a championship, they're all good. then we start to separate them, you know, based on, you know, what they can and can't do. And this is one of the things that Golden State's going to have to be good at. Steph is phenomenal. What he was able to do last night when he didn't have the juice was phenomenal. If you don't get the Kaminga game and the Pajemski game, Jimmy Butler has to give you a game.

And I think it's going to be more often that in the playoffs than it is going to be getting the Kaminga and the Pajemski game. You might get one of them. but I don't think there are going to be a ton of nights where you're getting both of those guys going as ballistic as they went. And so Jimmy's, they're going to have to figure out how to get Jimmy involved consistently.

Did this game put the Warriors in the title discussion for you? Or at least in the conference finals discussion for you at all? No. What about the Lakers? I mean, are the Lakers in that as well? No, okay. No, but I said they didn't put it in it because I have them like,

I think they're right there anyway. That game didn't do anything to take them out of the class that I already had them in, I guess is what I'm saying, right? Like, I'm not disrespecting either one of their chances at it. I think they're both slightly, you know, I would, OKC is my favorite, clear in a way, right? And then I'd have them in a category kind of creeping behind that. I don't think last night's game moved them out of that for me. There was something to happen towards the, I believe the end of the, around the end, or at least a second half for sure of the Lakers game. where LeBron James did a, and I'm probably dry-stitched here, I'm going against all my stuff, but it was all camera, Jesus.

But he did, I, I just looking at me crazy right now. What I mean, what are we to do? I got to have to do it. I got to have to do it. I have a podcast. You have to discussion points. I'm going to look myself in the mirror after I, after this pod and just like, yeah. So he flashed a, what seemed to be, you feel, be a, a whoop, a thag, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba.

The blicky? The blicky, you know what I mean? LeBron embraces inner Y. We don't want no problems, bro. We don't want no problems, bro. If you know, you know. But he did that, right? Almost like a week to the league.

Like, everybody does this shit, right? And he did it towards Draybott. It was a laughing thing. like they laugh. And it was a, it was a callback to a couple days ago where Jha was doing the gun signs towards Buddy Heald and they got into it. And they got a warning. Actually, uh, new news here.

Chabaray just got fined $75,000 for finger gun gestures. And I just, I think this is a great conversation, uh, time to have the conversation about perception and how it bites you with the ass. because, and I think LeBron alluded to it when he did his gun reference and gun sign, it's like, I think as a league right now, my dad always used to say this, Roger. Don't get that jacket put on you

because sometimes you might not ever be able to take it off. Right? And I feel like Jai has a jacket put on him, for better or worse, for what his past actions are. and this is a full backlash of the league because I will say this. One or one hand when I saw the clip the other day

with Jai against the Warriors bitch and Buddy Heald, I wrote my eyes because I was like, man, John just being hell of immature right now. Like, what are we doing? Right? After all this, you're still going to do this, right?

But on the other hand, I'm like, he's clearly getting, very clearly getting targeted, right? Because whatever you think about the gun references, bro, players do it all the time, all the time. And the fact that even the greatest player of his generation just did it last night and no one said a peep. But Ja is getting fined $75,000. What is the perception of John right now, Roger,

and how is it affecting his pocketbook and his reputation? Well, well, um, The perception is he can't get right. I mean, that's, that's the perception, right? The reality is that you are correct. Like, there are a lot of people making those gestures. Like, look, Pajemski, there was a point in the game where Pajemski and he's running down the court and he's doing this, right?

Which is his three celebration. But look at that. Because I immediately thought when he was doing it, is buddy throwing up to the blicky? Like, I didn't know. And so- Josh, you're so lost when you say that, bro. I'm sorry. Like, it's okay.

Yeah, it's all right. But like, that's where we're at in the league. Like a lot of people are doing that. It's just, you know, jaw, like, oh, you got to have a little, you've got to have a little self-awareness, though. I know we talk about this. Is it fair that other people do it and don't get fine and you do it and get fine? Like, probably not.

Like, is there a reason behind it? Like, if you put yourself in this situation, 100%? Um, like you're not out there with like, not that it makes a difference, a pistol or nothing, but you like swinging to Draco or the AR 15. Like you out there like with big boy guns. Like that shit is not like a celebration of a three. My boy, you lighten up the bench. And so it's just a bad look.

And you, you have put yourself in the situation where you can't have bad looks, especially as it relates to firearms. Like, and so, I mean, there's a lot that can be true at the same time, right? His reputation plays a large part and his, you know, prior, you know, offensive played a huge part in the fine. Other cats aren't getting fine. That's not necessarily fair. The league probably needs to, you know, I don't know what the language or the letter of the law. You can't do a throat slash.

So why are people running around like shooting people? When did that become okay? I remember like the throat slashes, what was that was almost a decade ago now where people were doing that in like in in playoff games and they were getting fine for that. When did we introduce assault rifles? Yeah. But so that's a league. That's a league thing. Sam Casale was doing the big balls gesture.

Yeah, my dog, Eddie House, I pretty sure got fine for that. Cove got fired for that. I remember that too. But no, so I guess like it's kind of messy. but let me just because I don't know I want to go back to Jha um listen man I don't mean any disrespect I don't know him I don't know anybody in his camp but you can go back and listen to what I've said about him before when he was in all of this it is it it just screams immaturity bro it screams lack of awareness it screams you haven't learned anything really from like what you've been in

already and maybe saying that you haven't learned anything is the wrong you haven't learned enough right? Like maybe you're not out there really, you know, handling the firearms and being in the places that you're not supposed to be in and doing that in, in like real life. But you're, you are an ambassador, bro, of the game. Like, they don't, they don't, that's not a great look, killer. Like you got to, it was probably the wrong, sorry for the, no pun intended, but like, you got to come on, bro, tighten up. I think that, what I think is happening. I'm sure you, you would agree with this is he feels targeted.

He feels like that and he is now being defied against it because he feels like he is being wrongly like this is unfair and all these things. But to your point, like, that was my first thing like dogs. It's like, I remember I was at a Warriors practice during

by beat writing days. There was this player by the name of Jordan Bell. And Jordan Bill had a lot of talent. You know, I, I, I really thought he was going to be something in this league. And I remember Steve Kerr had an availability. And he was talking about how players had certain players. When he says players have a day off, he's only talking about certain players, right?

Like Clay has a day off. Steph has a day off. Jermar and Kevin Durant has a day off. And then he pointed over the shoulders of the media members. It was like, Jordan Bell, don't got a day off. it doesn't apply to him, right? Right, right. It was wild.

Steve probably was a gangstiff, but, but that applies to Ja. Like, you're not LeBron, bro. You're not that. Like, that's something that you just go have to accept at this point. And, like, also, bro, like, what do you gain from that? Who cares? What do you? That's fair, but I'd argue, like, you're not LeBron in the sense that, like, you're not,

you're not the face of the league and maybe a goat conversation. You're not LeBron in that regard, but you're also not. not LeBron or LeBron's not you and that he does not have a history. That's what I bet by it, right? That's what I mean? You know that he's, you know that he's in his group chance right now, talk about, bro, did you just see LeBron? Did you see him just do that?

What the fuck? Why they're targeting me? Right? Why? Did you just see such and such do the same thing? Why they all on me? Right? But the reason why, and like, another thing is, like,

perception and all these things that he has done. on IG and all these things are one thing. He's also been immature with things around the league, talk about lawsuits that have happened. Like, Jah has come with a lot of baggage to the point where, like,

we get all these whispers that, like, he might, you know, dip. We talked about this a couple pods ago where, you know, you see that the front office is trying to change the offense. Like, that is a clear indication that my guy,

you are expendable. Like all this stuff that you think that you are right now, like, it's just a trade away, homie. Like, and I don't think that he necessarily gets that. But the other side of this,

Raja, is that he's so fucking good. Like you saw that, even in the same game that we're talking about, where he just didn't care, he was just defiant to the core. He had an amazing game winner.

Right? Like, and kept Memphis, a float, right? And so that's the jaw experience. Like, you're going to get this, you're going to get all of these things for the foreseeable future, right? And he's not this young dude

no more. Like, he's 25, but like he's 25 going into, it's an old 25. And you're going to have to take all this baggage when you take him. And like at a certain point man, like, I don't know how long a team is going to keep up with this baggage,

bro, especially when they're not winning at the clip that and you're not playing all the games that you're supposed to and they're not winning at the at the rate that they think they should be winning with you in a lineup like it's just gonna I think something's gonna give in Memphis for real I think something it is well I don't look there always comes a point with anyone where the juice isn't worth to squeeze right like and so when that point is reached by the Memphis Grizzly's organization I I don't know he's still super he's super talented and he's such a good player especially when you when you allow him to be

the best version of himself by what you do offensively, right? And now we can have the argument as to whether or not that's the best offense to be running to try to win championships, and we can debate that. But like, he is one of the guys that if you give him the ball and do what, let him do what he likes to do, like he's incredible to watch. So I don't want to take anything away from that. I would just say that, again, when the league suspends you, and I'm trying to remember his timeline here. Like he was suspended. They put him in like counseling and stuff or something like that for a while, right? Where they like, yeah. Like there was all kind of stuff done to try to like rehab, you know, the, the thought process and so on and so forth. The hopes at the end of that are that you will never have a problem

with weapons or the imagery of weapons or being arrested for weapons again. We've, like, we've curbed that behavior. Even if it's just enough for you to like not do. it publicly and we haven't changed your like private life, this don't do it publicly anymore. And when you come out of all of that and you've lost all that you've lost in terms of seasons and games played and, you know, finances and all of that, and you can't help yourself in that that situation. I'm not arguing that other people don't, don't do that. I can argue, though, that like, you know, we're talking like semantics, kind of at that point,

Like the imagery is different when you're swinging that, bro. When you are sweeping the motherfucking street, bro. I know. That is a wild image. After, by the way, you got in trouble for putting lasers on teams after a game. I don't know if it was a red laser, but it was a red dot that you were, that allegedly was coming from your car and you're putting it towards another team. That's crazy.

And you can't help You can't help yourself with that? I would just say again, it screams, it just screams immaturity. It also screams like people in his camp are not like telling him what it is. Ra, if I do some stupid shit, first text I'm getting is from Roger Bell

saying you're doing some dumb shit, bro. You know? Yeah. Yeah, well, that would be the first. I don't know if there's no way. You, the first text you get is from your mama. I know her. Why you got to do that?

Why are we doing this? No, because, no, because, no, I'm saying that affectionately. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because if one of my young ins, pop out and are acting reckless, like, I love them so much that me or their mom are going to be the first person. Oh, God. Yo, my man, what are you doing? I know my dad and my mom will be the first people on my phone.

So, so, like, I know, you know, when you have a support, like, look, man, part of a camp's responsibility, part of a camp's responsibility is to stand in there and balance you out. Sometimes it might mean when you're at your lowest, they remind you of who you really are and support your confidence level and rehab, you know, your mental. It could be when you're feeling too big for your britches and you're reading your own press clippings that they remind you or where you came from and center you back down. Take out this motherfucking trash. Stop playing.

But it could also be like, you know, where people are saying to you in a way, hey, man, we're moving. We're image. Images is important, right? And like the opportunity that exists because of the talents that you possessed in this league and you could have it in your hand, or at least there was a time where you could have had it in your hand. I don't know if that time is past. Like I said to you, I couldn't tell you when the juice isn't worth to squeeze for Memphis. the juice is not worth to squeeze for the NBA. He ain't the face of this league.

No. That time has passed. But even in that space, there's still room for your camp to say, hey, bro, come on, dog. Hey, you got to tighten this up, baby. We can't, remember, we've had these problems. We don't need them moving forward. And clearly he's not getting that. Yeah, you know, we'll see what happens, man.

I'll say a quick break. We have a branded segment, but I also want to talk about the gift of the curse of perception. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Fanduel. It's the final stretch of the NBA season and the playoff picture is changing by the minute. Every three-pointer or fourth quarter comeback means that much more. With live betting on Fanduel, you can make the playoff pitcher a little prettier. So whether you're looking to ride with a hot shooter or think a team is due for a run, you can get in on the action until the final buzzer with America's number one sportsbook.

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1-800 gambler or visit R&G-HELP.com. And we are back. I told Rajah what we were talking about over the break. And he's like, he said, oh, word, let's fucking go. So let me, uh, let me, uh, let me get the branded segment out of the way. This episode of Clutch Plays is brought to you by Amazon business. We're going to talk about the ending of Nuggets Timberwolves, which was clutch for the Timberwolves, not so much. for the Nuggets because of one

Russell Westbrook. And I told you we're going to talk about the gift and the curse of perception. Rogers is still making me nervous because he got that twitching his eye because we're talking about Russ and we might have to slander him today and you know what he does when you try to slander Russell

Westbrook. Now all I kept hearing after that game was Russ fumbled the bag. Russ did this. Russ did that. Russ is who he is, ladies and gentlemen. I'm going to go see him tonight. Warriors playing nuggets.

Pretty excited to see this. Last time I watched Russ, he actually, he went like seven of 85 and still hit clutch shots and beat the Warriors by himself somehow. I don't know how that happened. But when you see everything that's going on with the Russ over the week, Raja, what are your thoughts?

And what are we missing in this argument? What are my thoughts? Like what, what? You saw it in the game, right? He made two bad plays. He missed the layup. He had a great steal.

He missed the layup. And then he fouled a jump shooter. I don't know why, like, this is what bothers me about Russ. I'm not defending missing the layup or fouling the dude. Like, those are poor plays. But everybody makes poor plays. And nobody catches this level of criticism and, like, trying to turn him into a clown as Russ does. Nobody.

And I think that's bullshit. I really do. Like, I don't understand why, yeah, dog, he fouled a three-point shooter. We don't want to do that. Take me to synergy and show me where he's the only person that's fouled a three-point shooter in that capacity. And I'll shut my mouth. But he's not. So, like, I don't understand why he gets that level of vitriol.

Like, if you're going to tell me it's because he's run afoul of that many media members over the course of his career and stuff like that, I can't really argue that. I wasn't a part in the media. but I'm just saying as we level criticism at him and to the degree with which we do, it's in proportionate to his skill level and to a player that's accomplished as much as he has. It just is.

I think when you see it and again, we talked about the jacket that gets put on players and we talk about in the rest of his case, it is the jacket on him is while he plays hard, he also is prone

to a lot of mistakes and also like This is just around the league. And I've heard this from, like, people that will never say this publicly. But there is a sense of fake hustle from Russ, specifically on the defensive end, right? Like, you know, his defensive effort isn't exactly what you would think it is based on his effort level. So there's that on his jacket. There is the erratic shots. there is the erratic plays down to stretch.

And I think what happened was all of that came into focus the other night against the Timberwolves. And it's a recurring thing. And I think that is something that people are pissed off about because he lived up to the jacket that he wears, I think is what the league-wide perception is, Roger. Well, listen, let me attempt this, right? because again, let's fast forward to the night after that, right? Where they played San Antonio and he was 11 for 25 with 11 boards, six assists, and 30 points,

and they lost the game. Far too often, the media will look at that and tell you those are hollow numbers and there he is, stat stuffing, and it doesn't lead to a win. Fair, in and of itself singularly. Let's go back to the night before that. Nikola Yokic had 60 what was it 20 and something else like I'm not looking at the stats didn't fucking win the game did it win the game and the narrative is over for this year when Nikola yokic's uh but the narrative is russ the narrative is russ i just don't see that as being

equal or fair now it can be true that russ the mistakes he made down the stretch contributed to them losing that game. But it could also be true that in the night after that, there were mistakes made by Russ's teammates, maybe not as glaring in the last minute, but equally productive in leading to a loss, and they don't get magnified the way Russes do. And the narrative on other players who get big numbers

in incredible individual efforts that lose games isn't the same as we try to hang around Russ's neck. And I'm not here for that. I think, what's this? What's he getting paid this year? I'm not trying to pocketwatch. I'm just saying it as in terms of production, right?

I think he's like fat minimum or something like that. Like, you're getting somebody who, what's his average? He's averaging 13 points, five rebounds, six assists, or 45% from the field.

I mean, anybody. What's he shooting from three this year? What's he shooting from three this year? Let's see, 33%. All right. Well, look,

I mean, I'm not sitting here telling you that this version of us. I'm just saying based on like, if you get that in the free agency market on what a vet, it will bro, like you're pretty excited. Of course. Of course. And listen, don't get me wrong, man.

I'm not sitting here telling you that what happened in that game, specifically what Russ did in that, what, 20, 15, 12 minute stretch didn't heavily contribute to the loss. I'm acknowledging that. I'm simply saying that when he has that moment, we take it and turn it into something that we don't do that for anyone else. Like we take his mistakes and his foibles and we blow him up into a whole narrative about who he's been as a player in a career. And we don't do that to other players like we do it to Russ.

I don't know what it is. Like I don't know what it is about Russ. Like, you know, that's a, that would probably feel pretty shitty to be in his shoes. But like, I will say this again. I've argued with people on on these networks like not in the version of rust that we're getting now but even in the version of Russ that we were getting in OKC when the man was averaging a triple double and dragging teams like to places that they like he didn't win a championship but those teams weren't going to the places they were going without him doing that and they'll

still sit here and spin a 180 narrative about that like in terms of like the way they would spin it for someone else like. it's all about Russ in the emptiness of his stats. And if it were anyone else, it would it be how great they were and how little support they're getting. And I'm not supporting that. I was watching a clip from Gil's Arena. Shout out to Gil's Arena.

Really, like, I think they hit a billion subscribers, like friends of the show for sure. Like, shout out Gil, shout on Josiah, shout out Nick Young. Shout out to Lex, doing a great job. But they had a, Gil had a clip recently where he was talking about Russ and his impact. on the Washington Wizards, right? And there was a clip that, I don't know if it's gone viral, but like I saw it thought it was really interesting for this discussion. And basically they were going through a practice this during COVID year.

And like five, six times down the floor, the team just wasn't looking for Bradley Bill. And Russ was like, stop practicing, it was like, yo, yeah, yeah, yeah, what the fuck? This is all NBA. this dude is this, this and that. You give Bradley Bill the fucking ball, whatever. Right?

Like, that was just a little anecdote to the type of culture that he said, mind you, was they've been to the playoffs since Russ left. But I don't think that, like, he gets, even, like, he gets roasted, like, even among Laker fans about, like, there's this big clip that came out about, like, just telling the locker room to have fun or something like that.

And it just gets undermined. with his messaging just throughout the season. But I think that he means well, and also that, like, in the places that he has gone, he has set a culture, and there is always a gap, I think, between the perception, and I am a member of the media class. So, like, I'm lumping myself into this, even though I don't necessarily, like, believe this notion.

But, like, I think that there's a gap between how players feel about Russell Westbrook and the locker rooms versus how. the media talks about him on a nightly basis or writes about him on a daily basis. There's a big gap.

Like, I remember, I remember, I remember going to a summer run at UCLA. This was the first time I ever really like, not necessarily interacted with Russ,

but, like, saw him outside of the confines of an NBA arena. And I was floored by like how many people loved him. And this was like, okay, see Russ. This was probably like 2017-2018 summer. And I just pulled up and I just sat and just, you know, when you go somewhere and you just sit

and just try not to get kicked out, like you just sit in silence. I was just right there, just like soaking it all in. And the way that he galvanized those pickup teams and the way that players like really galvanized around him was like really like impressive. and this was like coming off, this was coming off the MVP year, but this was also coming off a time where like,

people were like shitting on him after Durant left, shitting on his game, shitting on how we played. And I was just floored by like how many people really respected him as a person and as a man. And I think that there's really a gap and how we see him, how we view him as a player on television versus how people feel about him in a locker.

Look, yeah, I think you're 100% right. I've said before some of it are, some of it has to do with the aesthetics and what your eyeball likes to watch in terms of basketball style and play, right? Some of it has to do with analytics. I don't mean to be controversial, but like it always is going to bother me when there is that big. of a disconnect between the basketball playing community, people who have done that for a living, been in the locker rooms, been in the huddles, been on the floor in the tight situations where you need a bucket, looked into people's eyes who don't want any part of it and will tell you that no, that dude is like that. When there's that big of a disconnect between those people

and the people who have never done it and only can look at stats. analytics and break it down, there's a problem. I'm not telling you you can't be good and no basketball if you didn't play it. That's not what I'm saying. But when most of the people creating that narrative are that community, there's a problem. You know what I think, though? I think they're, like for me, at least, because I am on the side of the ledger that you describe, right?

Like, in terms of on the media side that is, that is commentating on this game, that, you know, I haven't played basketball to the level of Rajin. But I think for media members, it's really important to like take that into account how much a, at least for the sake of this argument, how much a locker room loves a player and why a, you know, you could, you could say both sides of it. You can say he played like shit, but he's loved in the locker room for this X, Y, Z reasons, right? Or why he has galvanized the locker room. Or why, like, they rock with him despite his mistakes late in games, right? Like, you could tell the whole picture. I do think that there is more of, and I've always said this on this podcast and beyond,

there is, there needs to be more of a balance in terms of like how we approach covering this game. I feel like we're just like at points in times between players and media. We'll just talk at each other, especially as there's been more of an influx of players in the media, which I don't mind. I think that I love it. Like I think that like, Roger, your perspective is amazing. Like, I learned so much from you.

I do think there's a balance that can be had. And a lot of it also, this is some other stuff. A lot of the people that are talking a lot of shit about, not only Russ, but all these people aren't in the locker rooms to, like, back that shit up, right? Like, the people that are talking about this,

like, you notice, when someone talks shit about you, during your time or like wrote a column what fuck was there the next day right now there's so many there's somebody less barriers to entry you can write a blog shitting on somebody that you'll never see

and I think that that is also played a part in the discourse and how we talk about players and how we talk about the league as a whole for sure I mean that's the world right like so many people can sit behind the keyboard now and never never really face the person that they're making a statement about there's a lot of people that listen to real

that that talks shit about us will never see us. Or they'll say, hey, we love your show. Hey, how are you doing? No doubt. And I'm not sitting here saying that like, Russ is a perfect player. So like if your job is to write about a game where he's making mistakes down the stretch of a game

and that's factual, you got to write it. Like I'm not saying that you don't write that. What I'm saying is then when you're trying to create like a narrative, Again, the whole, like you said, when he plays like shit, well, I mean, again, there are a lot of NBA players that don't have a great game every night. And we don't talk about them playing like shit. It's not categorized as that. It's not, it's not done in the way that it's done to him. And I find that interesting. Like, on a human level, I find that very interesting. Why is he the person that commands that level of like, like, vitriol in your language? And so, like,

You know, I'm not saying you can't write that he doesn't play well and shit like that. I do think it's fair and it's hard to quantify how much someone means to that. We don't know the nuances of what they're asking him to do down the stretch. Like there's got to be a sliding scale between the mistakes you make and how much is put on your plate. We never factored that in. Like, no, I'm not going to make a mistake down the stretch because I don't ever have a fucking ball. But if I'm asking Russ to deliver a win every single night down the stretch and have the ball in his hands and make every play, guess what he's going to do?

you're trying to do it also like bro and he's gonna but he's gonna make mistakes because he's a human being so like we don't like there's very little context put into the conversations about him at times and that's i guess what ultimately is frustrating for me and and i would like you know again when when people said i had this in the front offices and and media members do it too he can't play he's trash he sucks uh those those rebounds are hollow. What the fuck is a hollow rebound? Muffoca, you couldn't chase down a rebound with no players on the court. And you writing that this man's rebound is hollow?

Take your ass out there and try to get a rebound and come back and write that it's a hollow rebound. Like, but I ran around NBA courts for 12 years trying to get 10 rebounds. Guess how many times I did it. And none about my effort, nothing about my effort was fake. I couldn't afford to have it fake. I wasn't talented enough to be fake. fake. Seven, eight? That's fucking hard, bro. That's fucking hard.

It's hard. No, but I get hot about this, though, because there's too many people running their mouth that don't know shit. Well. And there's too many people out there listening to people run their mouth who don't know shit that give them credit for knowing shit. And sometimes you've got to stand your lane as it relates to talking shit about people.

So, real talk. Like, I got hot on this segment. Russ is not a perfect player. Russ is not an efficient score of the basketball. He does not shoot three as well. Like, he is certainly not the player now that he was, I don't know, eight years ago. But just treat him and his legacy the way you would treat Lucas, the way you would treat Carmelos, the way you would treat AIs.

Do that. I will say this. He's definitely not getting the treatment befitting of what he's going to be, which is a Hall of Famer. Right. Like, he's definitely not getting that. And also one other thing that I would have a caveat for, like, I just looked at his, and again, I'm not pocketwatching, just saying it as a think of fact. Two years, $6 million contract.

If you're looking for your star player or you're the guy to win you games down the stretch to be the guy that's making $3 million, like, that says a lot about your team. That says a lot about the Denver Nuggets, right? Like, Nicole Yolich is right there, right? Every time. But like, if you're relying on Russ to get at this stage of his career, this stage right now, to consistently be the guy to, and he's not because I know Jamal Murray's on the team, but I know all these things, right? But he's polarizing like he is, right? Like, that's where we're at right now. If you're continuing to rely on him, like, take the Russell, take the name out of it.

Like, I just gave you the stats of what he does. It's pretty much a bargain for that price for it, bro. It is. And I think, I mean, while it says something about, it also says something about, about, about, about Ruff. us. Like, I'm going to bring my voice down because sometimes you can't hear what I'm saying because of how I'm saying it. Like, they're not in the habit of rolling people out there that can't contribute in a major way to winning games in that league. People are paid millions and millions of dollars to make that determination in training camp, watch what they have, sort through it,

as a staff, come together, collaborate on it and decide who's going to be the eight to nine guys that go out there and try to do that. And he's still standing there as a part of that core. And that is a testament to him in a way that people don't give him credit for. And I, I would just say this again. Like, and all those guys I talked about, those are all-time great players, right? Like, and while we can debate and have a conversation of, like, I'm not saying he's as good as any of them. I'm saying you don't speak about them. None of them have championships, right?

You, you, but Luca, the jury is still out, so I probably shouldn't put him in that right away. But, like, we don't treat their legacies and talk about them the way that, who we do Russ is we don't play around with them like that. And I don't think that we should. Like those are, those are, every player has his flaws. Nobody's a perfect player. But we can recognize what they were great at and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and respect that. And I think there's a lack of respect for it as it relates to Russ. And I'm going to double down on what I said. Wouldn't be better.

Oh my God. Incredible. Amazing. Let's blame it on someone else. 30 something and whatever the next night in a loss, hollow stats. Don't contribute. Like, I just think, and again, I am acknowledging that Russ directly impacted their ability to lose. We can't escape that.

You can't. But you can't also escape that if you go to the San Antonio game, their plays made by Russ's teammates or plays that weren't made by Russ's teammates that would have affected his ability to win that game. And I'm not saying that Nicola Yolkich wasn't phenomenal. Of course, he's phenomenal. I'm not trying to say that's not taking anything away from that. I'm saying, like, treat the loss, the numbers. Treat them equally, bro. Give the man at least that much credit.

And I don't think that's done for him enough. So I'm sorry for yelling at y'all for 10, 15 minutes, dog. But I really feel that, man. Like, I really feel like that. A last second three-pointer, that's the kind of play that defines winners. When it comes to business, Amazon business is your clutch for former. With fast access to essential supplies and flexible purchasing options, they are there when you need them the most. So you can tackle unexpected demands and keep your business in the game.

Visit business.com to learn more. All right. All right. You know what it's time for. Real one of the week. It's Friday vibes. I have my real one, Raj. Do you have your real one?

Yeah, why not? Go ahead. I'm first, okay. I'm going to send you a clip, buddy. Just look at this real quick, especially on the heels of after I just read, terribly read an ad. Let's take a look at that clip. My ruin of the week is going to go to the one and only Kate Scott from Philadelphia, who midgame is reading a midgame read, ad read, as you know, that kicks my ass all the time.

she's doing it in the middle of a game reading it and then catches a team shirt doesn't even break stride keeps the keeps the keeps the team shirt that they throw in the stands and gets the read done perfectly i marvel at that i stand on that shout out to the homie kate scott for hold it down shout out to the greatest thing that's happening to Philly over the last couple of years great great performance we love you shout out to you hopefully you get to watch some winning basketball

suit that is my rule of the week Kate Scott the homie the god the goat no doubt I was impressive right you saw that that was pretty cool yeah that takes a level of concentration that unless you have to do the reeds

and stuff like you what you couldn't appreciate you throw something at me Rosadur to read. I'm fucking up, dude. I can't even do it what I'm just like here. You know, reads are hard. There are what reads are hard and just generally speaking, I, everyone in my family knows I can't do two things at once. So if you're trying to have a conversation with me and someone asked me like a little, hey, like write something down on a piece of paper, I've got to stop one to do the other. Brain doesn't work like that. So I'll just say reading in front of the class was really hard. I'm reading it from it. See, I didn't have a problem with that because like I, I,

like all I have to do is read. So like I'm good in like I'm actually not bad with reads on on the show like and stuff when you're not here and I got to do the ads. You're great. Yeah, I'm not awful. I can do that. It's not like. And it's just I can do that.

But if I have to do two things at once, no matter how like easy they are like I'm going to struggle. I was so proud of myself during a live show because I killed that shit. I was so proud of myself. You're really going to live show. Shout out to the live show. Live show was a lot of fun. Let's do it again.

Let's do it again, man. All right, I'm going to give a shout out. I didn't really have one, but I'm going to stay in the Philly area with Phil Martelli Senior. Okay. And why, like Phil Martelli had been coached in Michigan, I think most recently. But like he was at St. Joe's when I was in the Philly area, had those good teams with like Delante and Jemir and and other players. So, yeah, I made buddies with his son, Jimmy Marti. And his older son, Phil Martelli, Jr., just took the job at VCU.

And he hired his younger brother, Jimmy Martelli, to go coach with him at VCU. He was at Penn State. And the reason I'm giving Phil Senior real one of the week is because that's pretty damn cool, man. Like to have your two sons coaching on his staff together at that. that level and you were a career coach and and like that's that's real one of the week right like you did right by them and the joy that that must be bringing the family to be able to kind of you know watch them work together and stuff like that I think is pretty cool I told jimmy that so like real one of the week I can't i can't see cliff right now but i know he's like shedding tears

and we're finally like shout out philly bro we love philly I mean shout out all right that's been another edition of ruin the week and real ones um Howard will now be, this is a news to Raj. I didn't get to tell him because he didn't want to fucking talk pre-pod. But Howard will now be on Fridays with us, ladies and gentlemen. All right. You'll find out why next week.

But so next Tuesday, it will be being raw. And may or may not be a special guest. We'll see. But that has been another initiative, real ones. Hey, also, Real Onesmailbag at gmail.com. Real ones mailbag at gmail.com. Real ones mailbag at gmail.com. We're going to now do that on Fridays now.

Just so you guys know, you guys got time. We love all your questions. Talk to you all soon. Shout out to Ra. Shout out to Cliff. Shout out to Victoria. Ah, all the sheds. Bye.

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