The Ringer NBA Show - Warriors Sweep Cavs for Third Championship in Four Years | The Ringer NBA Show (Ep. 287)

Episode Date: June 9, 2018

The Ringer’s Juliet Litman and Kevin O’Connor react to the Golden State Warriors eliminating the Cleveland Cavaliers in the NBA Finals. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

NBA show. This is our rapid reaction. The finals just wrapped. I'm Juliet Litman. And I'm Kevin O'Connor. And the Warriors just beat the Cavs in a sweep. They won the finals. They won their third title in four years. Maybe they're ready to move on from they blew the 3-1 lead. And maybe LeBron's ready to go out from Cleveland. Kevin, how are you feeling in this Warriors dynasty? I think it's honestly kind of sad that in the NBA finals, LeBron James, possibly the greatest player of all time, depending on who you asked. I won't say so. Keep going.

Not even on the floor at the end of the game. Ante Zizich is scoring the final two points of the game for the Cleveland Cavaliers. LeBron's not even out there. LeBron checked out without like four and a half minutes left. And he dapped everyone up and then you're like, oh, okay, that's it. There were MVP chance. And it was like, it was pretty much a letdown, kind of like these finals, right? Yeah, there wasn't much of a celebration at all.

It was pretty bizarre. So, Kev, when did you know that this game was over? as soon as the Golden State Warriors defeated the Houston Rockets, pretty much. But I would say, game one certainly gave a little bit of hope that Cleveland would have a chance. I think it was during game two, around halftime or so, when it's like, you know what, Golden State is who we thought they were. And ever since then, Cleveland's had some little spurts where they've looked pretty good and competitive, but Golden State just has so much more talent than the floor, which is why I thought it was going to be a sweep going in.

And if anything, Golden State seemed a little bit more dominant than expected. I really thought LeBron would get a game. It's so hard to ever bet against LeBron. I know. They had a game and J.R. threw it away. More than in a second. I knew it was over when Clay was not out for game two because the Warriors are so good because of their system and because if Katie or Steph are off, like there's always Clay.

And then there's like still Dr. Mon to like hype them up or whatever. and so Clay being like the ultimate tough guy like he he's real like maybe the toughest guy in the NBA I mean coming back from that injury that's pretty serious yeah he was limping in between games one or two yeah he had a great game too

like if Clay if you can't if you can't if J.R. Smith diving into Clay Thompson's legs can't bring him down you can't bring down the Warriors basically Claytheism is on the rise Julie Claytheism is on the rise we got that burner from Ramona today talking about how Clay just like

he'll just go to the DMV however however many times is needed. I mean, Kevin Durant won the finals MVP, but Kevin, who would you have voted for if you voted? Steph Curry. I think to Steph, too. Make the case for Steph.

I think Steph overall had a stronger series. He had that just dismal game three. But other than that, Juliette, game one, 21 points on 11 of 23. Game 2, 33 points on 11 of 26, including 9 of 17 from 3. He was the different differentiator in that game. Put aside the game 3.

I mean, it was horrific, but he still hit big shots at the end of the game. And then tonight, game 4, 37 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists on 12 of 27. Not the most efficient series for Steph overall. But Steph really drives that team, I think. Yeah, absolutely. And also, the thing about Steph that is just underrated is the gravity of the floor changes. Like, you know, everyone else gets open because Steph's out there. Like, Aguadala was hitting threes tonight because they were like just settling for it.

And of course, that's like not normal. It's usually a good bat to get all that theory. But Steph just makes the whole thing different, you know? We saw one of those tonight. Yeah. When he pumped fake to the side and still managed to shoot the ball and it went in. Isaac Lee, our producer of the Renorm VHA, said it's like, this is proof we're living in a simulation in the Matrix. It's so true.

It is really true. Also, the thing about Steph is like he just has really come into his own as a leader. I think that's been one of the more fun aspects of watching this warrior's team. for the last four years is watching Steph mature from like kind of the underdog to being like one of the alpha dogs of the entire league, not just his own team. And that has

been pretty awesome. He's handled the media really well this series. For sure. I think Steph's development and Bob Myers has said this before, but Steph's unselfishness to accept Kevin Durant joining his team knowing that he would take a little bit more of a backseat. It's really cool that he did that.

It's disappointing for really everybody else that the Warriors are so dominant. I mean, look, we're talking about finals MVP between Stefan Curry and Kevin Durant,

two of the best players in the world playing on the same team. And it's like, you look at Kevin Durant's numbers in the series and he was terrific. Yeah.

He was outstanding. And his game three probably is like his signature game. It was probably his best overall game. I can remember him. Yeah, of his career, not just of the finals.

Yeah. He was, he did everything in that game that you could possibly ask a scorer to do, really. That's why he's so frustrating, though. It's because he's not that guy

every night. Like, that's, that's, and Bill Bill made that point in a column. Like, LeBron is so amazing because he does it every night, except for games two, three, and four of the finals, which we'll talk about. And like, Kevin Grant is so frustrating. I understand the case for Kevin Durant, obviously, like, in

this series, he's, and this is the same last year. Like, he's like the kill shot. Like, Curry gets them going and he carries them, and then for the reason they got Kevin Durant was to make up for what happened in, you know, 2016. And like, that's, that's the role. 73 wins. Yeah.

And that a finals loss. That's the role of Kevin Durant, and I get it. But I think it's Steph as well. I get the case for Katie. And like I understand why he won finals MVP. But I don't know. I'm just really a Steph girl now. It's also just been like when you think about the beginning of the season from stuff being

called out by the president to now. Like it really has been like full circle. It began with LeBron and Steph being called out by the president. And it ended today with the president saying they weren't going to be invited. I'm like, cool. They don't want to come anyway. It doesn't matter. It's just.

been a pretty, like, interesting run of Steph and LeBron. I think when we look back on this season from the jump to All-Star when they were the co-captains and they didn't tell if it was the end of this series. Like, this was really the season of Steph and LeBron. Yeah, and I think we're going to look back at this entire era, these last four years, and look back fondly at it. I mean, we're witnessing the greatest player of all time, possibly. I think he is the goat.

I don't. LeBron James. Okay. We're not going to argue about it. More about it. More than a later day. Say that for another day. But we're witnessing the greatest player of this generation in LeBron James

go head to head with one of the greatest teams ever in the Golden State Warriors for four straight years. We're going to look back at this time and think, damn, that was cool. We saw a 3-1 comeback. We saw this just juggernaut Golden State team just dominated the league while the league was changing, right? I mean, the game has changed. Influx of international players. The league is, to me right now, I love it more than ever.

It just so happens that we are seeing. to go and say Orr is just dominated. Hopefully we get a worthy adversary in the coming years. That's so beautiful, Kev. So I think this is probably the end of this four year. I'd say so. Because you've been writing about it for like a while. LeBron is probably leaving.

So a couple questions. First of all, assuming LeBron is out, where do the Cavs do? Like what's the first move they should make? Well, I think you need to keep that draft pick. Don't try to be average. Don't trade that pick and try to maintain being a playoff team. I think if there's a player at that eighth pick

that they perceive as somebody that's a building block, whether it's a window, Carter, or even Trey Young, or Colin Sexton, who I've heard they like a lot, take that player and build Young, try to trade Kevin Love

just before he's gone, whatever value he has, try to get rid of him. He has value. Kevin Love is a great second or third. I think so. We saw that this year in the playoffs. When they were able to feature him

in the last round, like they did it against Toronto, just complete mismatch problem. And in Boston, he had some good moments as well. Kevin Love still can score. He can get buckets. He's still an elite rebounder, and he's solid positionally defensively.

It just so happens that he's a zero against the Golden State Warriors. A zero. Ouch. Where does Kevin Love belong? Like, what's the ideal team for him? How about Portland? I was going to say Portland, too. I mean, that's like the team.

Everybody always seems to bring up like a CJ for Kevin Love type of trade. But do you want, do you want Kevin Love with CJ or you're doing with Dame? Because I would rather have him with CJ. I would too. I would too. I think they'd actually be pretty complimentary players. If I were the Cavs, I would try to trade. If you're really against keeping the pick, try to trade that eighth pick with Kevin Love for Dame.

For Dame. And then maybe you entice LeBron to stay in the year or two. Who knows? Maybe longer. I also think Dame, I mean, I know he's from Oakland, but he belongs in the Eastern Conference because he can be great. Like, he's behind like a couple of really good guards in terms of greatness in the West, but in the East he can dominate.

Like, who else is really like his competition? Like, Kyrie. That's it. And he's, who knows if he'll recover. Frankie Nicotine of the New York makes. More importantly, if we're talking about players moving, I mean, what's the frontrunner for LeBron right now? What are the streets saying?

I still think it's the Rockets and the Lakers. Rockets and Lakers. Ultimately. I thought Mark Stein's report today was pretty telling in a way where just follow what Chris Paul does. If Chris Paul were to ever leave Houston, maybe they could team up in L.A. If he wants to stay in Houston, well, then maybe LeBron can figure out a way to get there. It wouldn't be easy.

Houston, Darryl Moore and General Manager of the Rockets would need to get really creative to make it happen. Yeah. But you can make it happen. It can work. It can get figured it out somehow. If we learned anything in 2017, that Darrymori gets creative.

Yeah. Like you did to get Chris Paul. Yeah. That was a pretty wild day when all he's just doing like eight transactions in a row, basically. The weirdest part was all the teams helping him. Yeah.

Willing conspires. Yeah. It's weird that they do that. But I guess there's a collegiality that I don't understand completely. It's about relationships, I suppose. Sure. Sure. You scratch my back.

I'll scratch you were someday. If LeBron, which do you think LeBron to choose? Go to Lakers and get another star or build on what Houston has? I wrote about this recently like the mercenary LeBron idea where it's like go to Houston for a year

or to win a title there, take down Golden State, and then go to somewhere like Philly, you know, take along Ben Simmons after a couple years maybe where they've lost to Boston, pump them up to the next level. Then like when you're 37 years old,

go to the Lakers and then wherever your son gets drafted, go there. Like, that type of thing over the next seven, eight years for LeBron. But that just seems so unrealistic. That seems like a fantasy, doesn't it? Like, a mercenary, LeBron, to move his family around like that. So ultimately, to me, it's like, just go to Lakers.

Yeah, I definitely agree with you. Build your super team there. Yeah. I think the only alternate is going back to Miami, which I think, like, I believe in Pat Riley. I also believe in the Miami organization. I think they're, like, so professional. I also think Miami is good.

If you get them a star, a star, they go to the conference finals. So I don't know why. I mean, I know they have like cap space problems and like a lot less flexibility. That Tyler Johnson. Yeah, and a lot of flexibility. I actually saw him. I saw Tyler Johnson at a restaurant. Oh, you did?

In L.A.? In San Francisco, actually, yeah. Did you live there? I'm not sure, but I, but he's just like Tyler Johnson. That's so funny. Very recognizable face. That's really random. Kev, in this Warriors Dynasty, who do you think will be the first player to defect?

Kevin Durant. You think so? Maybe next summer or the summer after. Like, when does this get boring for him personally? I mean, we talked about this on the way over to the studio right now, but it's like when Kevin Durant, I don't want to psychoanalyze too much, but if you're Kevin Durant and you've worked towards this in your retirement life, there must be a small party that's like, damn,

I thought winning a championship would feel a little bit more fulfilling than it has last two years. It has to be a small party. I don't think so. You don't think so? No, I think it seemed like he had a great time last summer. I think that he kind of coasted for a lot of this season. I think the whole team did, you know? But it's like LeBron said after he won the one in Cleveland,

like that one was special. It was different, right? It was different than winning it in Miami away from home, you know, with his super team that he built. For your KD, like, there must be a small part of you. I don't think so. I really don't. I think he's a really unique dude.

And I think he wants, yeah. I mean, he's a singular talent, singular physique. He's one of a kind. He's one of the greatest players ever, and he's done like eight podcasts for the ring of his openness, right? Yeah, it's amazing. He's amazing. He's a different guy.

I thought it was interesting in between games three and four to hear a LeBron call KD one of the best best best ever. I just think he doesn't give out that kind of praise very often. He is usually pretty measured. He does not give it to his friends. He does not call Dwayne Wade one of the best shooting guards ever. He does not. He talks about Chris Paul and a really like familiar and like, like, affectionate way, but he doesn't really talk about other people's skills like that.

That really caught my attention. It's the truth. Yeah. I mean, he is one of the greatest players ever. And, you know, that's another part of it, Juliet, where with KD, there's a cover on Sports Illustrated many years ago, like about him being tired of being called the second best. Yeah. If you're KD, they're, that's still got to be there a little bit.

Yeah. Where it's like, I don't want to be second best. Yeah, he's so mostly like the guy. Go somewhere and, like, we saw this in game three. He had seven assists. Tonight he had tennisists. He's flashed some of that playmaking over the years. Maybe you go somewhere else and you become that guy.

And then maybe you do become the best before LeBron's done. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. I think he'd be first and defect. Who do you think it would be? I think Jermont. I actually don't know if he'd be defect or get traded.

I could see them trading him. He didn't have a great regular season. There's a lot of rumblings about how he's a handful. There's so many, you know, Ethan Strauss wrote that story. while ago that kind of really lit Draymond on fire and there's always been rumblings about Kerr and Draymond not necessarily getting along and I actually think

Steve Kerr would like absolutely never let that get out on his own which I thought he's always so complimentary of Draymond to the media which I think is like a good tactic. I'd say so. I could see him getting traded. Someone like Draymond I don't know how

well he's going to age and I don't know he's so essential to this team right now but if they start building for the and they want to, like, evolve and they start, and they kind of like plug Jordan Bell into that role or something like that. Then Draymond's a little bit less important. Interesting thing is, you know, for the last year and a half or so, like various Warriors, writers all on that beat have always said, like, they're going to go up there Anthony Davis in a couple of years. Maybe Draymond Green is that salary that you use in that deal to try to get AD.

Can you imagine AD and KD together? Oh, my goodness. It's like the two. I don't want to think about it. It's like, that would be like really fun, fun to watch. I mean, Anthony Davis, I mean, one of the reasons that series is so fun, because Drew Holliday is becoming the point card he deserves. It would just be amazing to see AD in, like, a really functional system like that.

It would be beautiful to watch AD with a player that's not to Marcus Cousins post-Aquillies injury. Yeah. I mean, I hope Bougie comes back, but, ooh, I don't know. I know, really tough. What do you make of LeBron's games, two, three, and four? Because he had an amazing game one. They almost stole it, and then J.R. Smith threw it away. I mean, we'll just be talking by that for the rest of time.

so we can leave it for now. LeBron seemed to have a little less pep in his step, a little less belief in his team. What was it? I mean, just like eye test-wise, there was just seemed like he was not as committed as we saw in game one. I mean, like with LeBron James,

the line is way up here, like in the stratosphere, for what LeBron needs to do to actually keep his team competitive in the finals. And, yeah, for the last three games, he was still really, really good. He still narrowly averaged a triple double, fairly efficient scoring. But yeah, you still would have...

Cleveland needed a little bit more, which is too much to ask, considering everything he was already giving. But he certainly didn't seem necessarily the same. Yeah. It's such a funny thing to see the best player check out with four and a half minutes left. It's sad to me.

It really is. It's just... I don't know. I have a hard time just thinking about it just because of the fact that we're talking about the guy that has defying this error. He has dominated the east this entire decade. And yet he's just getting swept off the floor.

I know. It's such a bummer. And you heard some rumors about LeBron, I think. Yeah. So I heard that game one, something happened to his right hand. I'm not sure what exactly, but that... His shooting hand. Something happened to his right hand.

And yeah, I looked into it and it had heard there's nothing. And if there is something, he would never admit to it because he's played through stuff in the past. And that's his role as the leader, it's just to play through stuff. and, you know, we've seen it. We see it when he turns his ankle, and one minute later he's hobbling around a little bit, but he's dealing with it. He's not going to the bench.

So if there were a hand injury, it wasn't necessarily apparent. Sure. But, yeah, he didn't shoot the ball nearly as well after game one. His at-rim finishing numbers were dipped a little bit as well after game one. Notice he was using his left hand quite a lot around the rim. I also noticed that he used his left hand to daff up or pound all his teammates and the opponents as he checked.

at the end of game four. That was pointed out by Colin Orkett from the Ringer. Yeah. Good observation. So maybe there was something, but it, look, he still was unbelievable. He was tremendous. He did everything that he needed to in the series. It was everybody else.

Right. I mean, he didn't get anything from J.R. Smith. Kevin Love was not the Kevin Love that they needed him to be on the offensive end of the floor. Missed so many open jumpers. Roddy Hood, just the hardest working garbage man in the city of Cleveland tonight for game four. And George Hill, like George Hill looked horrible for the Sacramento. Kings earlier this season.

He looks worse now. Everybody's talking about George Hill will be rejuvenated, playing alongside LeBron James. It's like, no, he looks way worse now in June than he did back in October, November, and December with the Kings. And just really disengaged.

The most engaged Cav is probably Larry Nance. And he just, like, he just seemed like a great teammate. I would love to have Larry Nance on my team. He's probably a keeper for the, for the Cavalers moving forward. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah, he and Quinn Cook are like the glue guys of these series. Quinn Cook was like so beloved.

the end. I mean, he was filling in for Steph Curry, dropping points towards the end of the regular season for Golden State. It was amazing. Still winning games with Quinn Cook is your starting point card. If LeBron goes to Houston, what does, what do the Warriors have to do to stay, do they need to make a big move to level up as well? Or are they still good enough? I mean, I think I think Bob Myers said it today in some interview somewhere I saw on the internet where he's like, they need to get younger. I think that's the key thing. Sean Livingston, Andre Guadala, those guys aren't going to last forever. You needed to continue to add. youth need to continue to develop Jordan Bell, need to continue to try to develop Kavon Luni,

even though I kind of think he sort of is who he is. Which is like not nothing. Yeah, he's solid. If he's your backup center, like you're, I mean, I guess in the Rocket Series became apparent they didn't have enough wings. For sure. So they probably need to add like one or two. They have seven centers on their roster.

Yeah. I mean, they have the 29th pick, I believe, in the draft this year. So they could have an opportunity to draft a good player. That's the thing with this draft, Juliet. Like from 15 to 40 or so. everybody's going to have these players ranked drastically differently, like in the league, like publicly. Sure. It's going to be consensus.

But in the league, teams are going to have drastically different ranking. So maybe Golden State ends up getting the guy that they have like 13th on their board at the back of the first round. Maybe, maybe not. But they could end up adding a player that they perceive as a building block at the back of the first round just because of the way this draft is structured. One thing I recently learned from like just sort of, you know, NBA world is that teams like 100% do not compare notes when it comes to drafting. Definitely not. Like at all. And they're just trying

to like screw each other over and like get the much information as possible. Which I kind of find fascinating because it is a league with so much with both like equal measures of feuds and collegiality which is why I love it. Like I love both ends of the friendship spectrum. But I find it fascinating that there

is no note sharing. So like when you hear about Michael Porter only giving a workout to the balls and like only giving one team like a physical, like that's really significant because only one team, like that won't get out, basically, is the point. Like, it raises red flags, but... For sure.

I was told by one executive that it's actually more common than you would expect that a player will take a physical with just one team and then that will be distributed elsewhere. Interesting. But it's still a relationship-based decision, I would think. Yeah. Agent plus team. Plus, you know, I'm giving it to you because there's like a promise or something like that. It's just kind of amazing to me that, like, that teams just don't compare notes.

and it's also like, I think... Never want to trade secrets, though. No offense to you. It's like doing a fantasy draft though, Juliet. Like, if you're doing a fantasy football drafts with your friends. I don't know. But no offense to you, but the media becomes like ponds, you know? Like the teams use the media to try to like float rumors and whatever.

That's why some of the stuff, I mean, not to go off the rails here, but some of the stuff with Sacramento, it's like, hmm, you know, do they really not want Luke Adonjord for a member or two? Like, they're really not considering him or how much of this is just some type of smoke. screen from Sacramento. The most gamesmanship of all of basketball happens around the draft, basically. Yeah, pretty much. Which is kind of, I think one of the reasons it's so popular and people like care so much. Plus like the potential. These next three weeks will be nuts for sure.

I know. It's kind of, you know, last year, this series, it only went five and it still like felt longer. Like we always talk about how we wish we had more time between the finals and the draft. That's like the only. A lot of time. That's the only silver lining of this finals. A lot of time, Julia.

Final sweep. We're going to have so much more on the finals and the draft on the Ringer NBA show. This has just been a micropod. We just needed to get some stuff out there. Kev, any final thoughts on these playoffs or these finals? I hope next year, Golden State, in the finals, not before the finals, but in the finals has a real competitor

to make this exciting because if we get another year of this where it's a sweep or even a five game, you know, finals, I think that's the point where it's going to be like, you know what, this is a bit much. Yeah. But we need a team to step up, whether it's LeBron and the Sixers or Reloaded Cavaliers

with LeBron or Boston. We need a team that really gives it to go and stay it in the finals to make this the best because right now I love the league more than ever. What would take it to an either another level, Juliet, is an exciting NBA finals with two juggernauts going toe to toe. I completely agree.

I completely agree. Let's mix it up a little bit. We're going to have more on the finals. We will be back with Heat Check on Monday. This was just a rapid reaction. We'll be breaking down all of the LeBron news, all of the press conferences at T-Leave reading. Thanks for listening and reading Ringer throughout these playoffs. It has been a true delight.

I'm Juliet. And I'm Kevin O'Connor. And we'll be back soon. Thanks for listening.