The Ringer NBA Show - Was the Heat-Celtics ECF Game 7 the Most Disappointing Home Playoff Loss Ever? | The Answer

Episode Date: May 30, 2023

Seerat and Kyle get together to share their reactions to the Heat’s impressive win over the Celtics in Game 7 to advance to the NBA Finals. They break down Tatum and Brown’s tough night, examine their morale shifts throughout the series, and debate how Boston can move forward or enhance the pair going into the future. Next, they pivot to the Heat, and they talk about some of the great performances from their lesser-known but imperative role players and look ahead to their matchup with the Nuggets (18:36). They end the pod by speculating on Nick Nurse’s success as the new coach of the Philadelphia 76ers (1:02:03). Hosts: Seerat Sohi and J. Kyle Mann Associate Producer: Chris Sutton Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from the Minnesota Timberwolves. It's a new year and I have a new podcast here at the Ringer, Offguard, hosted by me and my guide Pasha Higigi. Austin and I go way back and talk so much hoop already that we figure it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on all of these conversations. Every week, Pasha and I will hit on the biggest stories happening in the league. And get Austin's perspective of someone currently hooping in the NBA.

Tap into Offguard every Friday on the Ringer NBA show feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. folks in here. I say folks just other places now, you know. Well, I miss you saying folks here. Folks is still around. It hasn't like gone away. It can be sort of summoned any time.

It's not married to any time or place. So don't feel, don't, if you're feeling desperate for a folks, is all I'm saying. I'll do a folks. You need a folks. Look, here's the thing. Like before we started recording, we were talking about succession and Kendall and grief and him becoming Logan. And that's not what we're talking about tonight.

but I mentioned that I think part of the reason that Kendall almost pulled this off is because when you grieve somebody, you start to pick up the pieces of themselves that you miss the most that you need the most and incorporate them into your personality. Kyle, ever since you've been gone, I haven't been able to pick up the folks. It's just it's just a side of this podcast. Is that a reflection on you grieving me that like you didn't really? So you make this point and then you insult me. No, I'm not insulting you. But, you know, I did, I did really miss you interpreting compliments as insults. So that's, that's, that's back.

Glad that can bring that back into your life, Sarah. But no, it's just, there's certain things that are uniquely an aspect of you. And, you know, Kendall is not really a killer. And I can't really say folks. Speaking of people who aren't really killers, right? Am I right? Am I right? Bump set spike.

Let's talk about the Boston Celtics. Let's talk about Jalen Brown. Let's talk about Grant, Williams coming back to Earth. Let's talk about Al Horford being old. Let's talk about Jason Tatum's health. Let's get into it. Let's talk about the freaking Miami Heat doing something incredible, Sir.

Stopping on the grave. Going to the finals. I mean, there are so many storylines from this. I mean, another one, is this the most disappointing game seven loss ever at home for a team, like, you know, that perceivably had like taken back the momentum, just so many, so many places to go. But I defer to you, Sir, where do you want to start? Let's start right there. Let's start right there.

Miami really still, if you believe in things like momentum, and there's a good reason to not believe in things like momentum, because there are teams like the Miami Heat out there that truly do not give a shit about any of that stuff. But, yeah, we come off this game six that I think you could still feel the magic lingering in the air from Derek White's shot. And Jason Tatum, after that game, says that he has never been more excited to go back to the TD Garden.

The look on his face just of shocked, happy disbelief to get another chance to potentially close this team out, you know, this 3-0 comeback. Jalen Brown is talking about how, you know, you just learn who you are in these moments and that there's no situation, no level of adversity that this team doesn't feel like they could come back from. Derek White just basically has tears in his eyes after that shot.

Didn't matter. Did not matter at all. Honestly, I feel like we were maybe robbed of an all-time Jason Tatum performance. First possession of the game, he drives on a close-out. Al Horford hit him in the corner, which I also think is worth mentioning because it seemed like, it seemed like the Celtics had kind of figured out how to deal with Miami switching. I was just like, get the ball into Horford. He makes a jump pass into the corner.

Unfortunately, for the Celtics, they went, what was it? The Celtics went nine for 42 from three, if that's what you're referring to, 21.4% in a game 7 at home. The main thing is this, the 42 is even more glaring than the nine. I mean, you hope you make more. But like, am I crazy? I mean, I was kind of, I was writing down some like ball movement stats. You're talking about them dealing with. And, you know, you're right that like Tatum, Tatum comes bursting out of the gate, clearly has an agenda like, I'm going to claim this moment.

And it's like super deflating. I'm going to assume I'm no doctor, Sear it. I know you know that. But I just wanted to go ahead and restate it, reiterate it. I'm going to assume he has a high ankle sprain because he just didn't bounce back from that quickly. I don't know how many sprained ankles you've had in your life. I've had many, many, many, many, and there's a point you pass. I've always said this where you're spraying your ankle and you're just kind of back.

The trauma isn't there. The trauma the first time is never really recreated, I feel like. You kind of just recover quicker. I don't know. It looks like a high ankle sprain. Don't hold me to that. But he grimaced immediately. He never, he looked laterally.

You can tell it was in his head, you know? Like it just kind of deflated Boston's. Things ripple out from him when he's at his best, right? You know, when he's at his best, he's beating his man, getting to the rim. And those parts of his game have kind of evolved. But it's very deflating for Boston. It almost got to the point where I was like, should they take him out? Because if your guys out there kind of, you know, emasculated as a player or just neutralized, like, I don't know, Boston just kind of seemed reeling.

They had some different points where they tried to rally and get some things going. Like we'll talk about, I'm sure Derek White sort of looked like he was going to tap into those heroics. But it was a really kind of a DOA kind of a start, really deflating star for Boston, that you just, you weren't going to get a shot to get those Jason Tatum heroics. Yeah, I mean, this is a guy who's also 310. and seven assists in elimination games this season before today. 27, 8.6 and 6 for his career. Like this is a guy who, like, you know, for all as much as we talk about Jason Tatum,

his inconsistency. And he shows up in big moments. You know, game sevens, he's averaged 28.8 points, nine rebounds and 5.3 assists in game sevens with 50% shooting from from beyond the three point line. Like, it's just tough. Like that's just after, you know,

all of the things. that seemed faded to allow Boston to make this comeback, like winning game three, shooting 20% from the three point line for this to happen on the first play of the game. It's just so deflating. And then to get absolutely nothing, just nothing from Jalen Brown,

less than nothing. Like just negative outcomes pretty much every time he did something with the ball on offense. Like he got off to a two-for-two start. And I texted you feeling pretty optimistic about the Celtics. I was like, look, like, like,

it's just, man, it's just where we were in the first, like, you know, four minutes of the game, right?

Like, Miami had not scored in the first three minutes of the game, I think. Yeah, whenever they were a little tight to start. I was just kind of like,

or they were kind of doing the standoff, you know, you know, six shooters kind of circling each other thing where it was like, who's, what's the rhythm of this game?

Who's going to, it just felt like they weren't kind of hitting the half pipe with, with momentum. They were kind of, it was a slow still did start, like you said,

yeah. Yeah, it felt like a little bit of both, right? You know, Jimmy didn't turn it on until a little bit later in the first quarter. Bam had a really tough night on offense, which we'll talk about at some point. But yeah, it just didn't, they just didn't really figure it out until, you know, probably halfway through that quarter. But Jalen, he comes out two for two. And it's like, okay, like you kind of made the start smart instinctual play. Jason is not going to be able to be himself tonight.

You got to step up. He hits two tough mid-range shots. And the Celtics look relatively calm, right? Like they kind of had the second best guy come up and save him or save them. Since then he was six for 21. He went one for nine from three. There was one three in the fourth quarter that he took that I was just absolutely losing my mind about. I think it was the last one that he,

or the second last one that he took where it's like you've missed six now and you're in semi-transition. You're Jalen Brown. I get that the rim hasn't been doing you a lot of favors tonight. Shout out to Bamatibio. But at the same time, You got to get something going in that direction. He also finishes a night with eight turnovers.

I think on that eighth turnover, there's parts of the Boston Celtics crowd that are booing him. Just a really, really tough night for him. Yeah, for a young player who's kind of looking to ascend. I mean, this was, you know, like, I feel like in the library of the history, we were talking about Game of Thrones earlier. If you imagine sort of the Citadel,

I guess Game of Zones kind of did this. If we have like a Citadel and there's multiple floors and there's kind of wings of like the great. We're like over here is where the greats are. And it's, you know, we, we celebrate them in our cloaks and we open the scrolls with all this, you know, great, great reverence. And over here, there's this wing of just like bed shitters, like guys who have, like, Tyler and I earlier in the, there's a big plaque that says bed shitters over it. No, Tyler and I were talking about earlier in the, you know, guys just kind of, it reaches a point where the trend becomes like, okay, like, where do we file this player? Like, what do we do with them?

And I feel like the conversation around Brown over the course of his career, he's 26 years old now with Boston. He's a guy that they got a hold of in a time when they weren't. Like, Boston has had a run where they've been fortunate enough because of the picks that they got from that famous Brooklyn trade back in the day, that they sort of did the two timeline thing well. So these guys have a lot of playoff experience. But what's kind of piling up, we've had a lot of great Brown playoff performances. but we just are kind of piling up stinky ones like at this point. This one, I mean, I think this one might be sort of the crim de la crap. Like he, he, you're looking back over this game.

The play that you're talking about, I guess to complete the library thing, I'm just wondering if this continues, where do we put it? Like, is he going to be in that hardened wing where we're like, he's going to have to buck this trend somehow, I guess. Like this was such a, such an epically bad one. And they really need, needed points. you were talking about the shot that he took early in the clock. It wasn't so much that he took the shot.

It was just that they were down a lot. I don't think the lead had fully swelled to like the 20 range yet. But like Martin, who was feeling himself, took an early clock shot. That's an opportunity for you to go down and get a good shot and eat into this league. He goes down and immediately takes a terrible contested early clock shot after he'd already been playing terribly in the game. could not hold onto the ball. It seems like any dribble sequence that's passed like three dribbles. He's vulnerable.

Didn't look good going to the basket tonight. Didn't draw fouls. Just a really, really tough sort of entry in his career. You know, there's time for redemption, obviously. But he's going to have to do something to overcome this one, Sir. Like, it's really bad. Yeah, that turnover was I think he just basically lost control of the ball dribbling against Bama out of bio, which was like a theme of it.

night for the most part, right? There is also, I think Jimmy Butler played passing lanes incredibly well, and I think the Celtics can be incredibly just predictable when they're moving the ball from side to side. And they don't necessarily, they're just, they're just, man, there's just nights where they're just so far behind the play.

And I think that's just especially true with Jalen. He can be really predictable at his worst. And it's just kind of, to me, at this point, it's a matter of not seeing enough, enough of a jump in his basketball IQ. over the course of however many years he's been in the league now.

He has improved as a playmaker. He has tightened his handle somewhat. There are just still situations where he just doesn't recognize, you know, game clock scenario. There are times that he's just barreling into the wrong guy. You know, you love unfettered aggression. I thought game six was actually a good example of him, not having the best shooting night,

but at the same time, like really just hitting the boards, playing really well below the three point line. And we didn't get any of that nuance in his aggression tonight. It was all just, you know, him just being a little bit all over the place. And there are nights that he's just going to do that. I think that, I mean, there's a lot of questions moving forward, right? Like, this is a guy who basically spent, like, from February on doing the interview circuit saying different things about the city of Boston and the organization. and how he feels about being in trade rumors in perpetuity. And it's, you know, it's funny how fast these things can swing sometime

because, like, you're looking at games after game six and the things that he's saying about this team. And who knows what he's saying right now? Like, we're recording during the postgame interviews. Like, I don't really know how they're feeling in terms of togetherness. But they're talking a lot about togetherness after this trio come back. And I don't think it's nothing, right? Like, I think that maybe they can take that and still salvage it

and find something for next season. I think that for Jalen, like, you know, the things that he needs to improve have always been very clear. So I don't think we need to necessarily get into that. I think you can maybe find ways to position him in different areas around the court. I've always kind of liked him as more of like a power forward. That's what I was going to say. I wonder if you can maybe take some of the pressure off of that. Like he needs to be maybe just put less pressure on him to be such a heavy off the bounce,

like or just tempt him with these situations where he has to be. pounding the ball and like engaging the defense like deep into a sequence that is going to like put him in tough situations. Like I don't know, maybe you set up a situation where he's running off of actions. I don't know, just in shorter bursts, you know, where it doesn't seem like he has to be so vulnerable. I don't know. Maybe that involves him like playing off of like an elbow sort of like fulcrum creator. But I mean, Horford does that some. I've kind of wondered like, do you think that they've addressed the sort of, dynamic between him and Tatum, like, do they need like a better connective playmaker? Because

Brogden is sort of more of a lean scoring guy. White is a capable passer, but he's not like a virtuosic passer. Do you think that they should maybe put their focus on that? Kind of like, is there somebody out there that would be a good connector between the two of them, like a low touch time kind of player? I think that's what they've been trying to do. You know, I think that's what Mark is. I think that's what Al Horford is. I think that at their best, they can be that. And at their best, they move the ball around really, really well. But the thing is, I think it always just comes back down to those guys, those two guys are still going to have to get the majority of touches on this team. And I don't know at this point if there's a way to get around that.

I've gone back and forth on this question so much throughout the series of just whether these guys are a good fit together. I think just when you're this close, my tendency is to think let's keep trying to make it work. I mean, look, they got to game seven. so hard to start over. Right. Right. So I do kind of think more in terms of a retool. I think obviously a lot of that depends on how Jalen Brown is actually feeling this offseason.

But yeah, I just don't, but like I don't know where you go because I don't necessarily, like, you know, the obvious thing is going to be to trade Mark is smart. I think you look at how he played in games four to six. That's the best version of Marcus Smart that you're going to get. And that is a really good player who makes a lot of sense for a Celtics team that while they are incredible defensively, they lose their, their defensive edge quite a bit. He's a really good intuitive playmaker. I don't think you can, I don't think you're really going to trade him for someone who makes better plays.

Maybe you reorient how the offense is run. I don't necessarily have ideas on that like in the moment other than maybe moving him a little bit lower on the court. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, you can add some more playmaking. Brogden and Jalen have actually been like, in my opinion, like a particularly awkward fit. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know. It's just, it's a really tough situation because you're so close, but there are, there are structural issues that have now, you know, they've presented themselves again and again. And I don't know. Like, maybe you do, maybe you do get over the hump at some point though. I don't know. Make a fast break to fan duel during the NBA playoffs. Because right now, new customers can get a no sweat first bet up to $1,000. That's $1,000 back in bonus bets if your first bet doesn't win.

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Gambling problem, call 1-800 gamble or visit phandul.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, and Virginia. 1-800 next step, or text next step to 533-42 in Arizona, 1-3-9-7-7-7, or visit ccppg.org slash chat in Connecticut. 1-800-9 with it in Indiana, 1-800-5-2-4-7-00, or visit KSgamblinghelp.com in Kansas. 18777-7-700 stop in Louisiana, visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland, 1-800-2-2-470 in Wyoming, or visit www.1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia. You lose to this Miami team who has a lot of players who are just lesser-known. I mean, to the casual, casual fan, I would say they're just flat-out unknown. but, you know, Syri, you know, sometimes unknowns can come together and create something great.

I mean, Star Wars is a good example, you know, Mark Hamel, nobody knew who he was. I'm not comparing this Miami team to Star Wars, but maybe they are. If they go on and win the title, maybe we'll have that conversation, but I don't know if they're quite on that level of greatness. But, I mean, on this, they get crazy, they just got crazy great performances. Struis wasn't quite as remarkable in this one, you know, eight points and 28 minutes. and he went, let's see, yeah, three for eight from the field. I mean, Miami took the lead. We were talking about them kind of like circling each other in the first quarter.

Miami took the lead 13 to 11, like 328 in the first quarter, and they never trailed again. It just kind of seemed like, I mean, I'm curious just that I'm not to flip and just kind of interview you here. But I mean, like, well, I mean, it just seemed like they kind of repeatedly had the answer throughout this game. It seemed like the end of that quarter seemed like an opportunity for Boston to sort of come back. There was at the end of the second half, it kind of looked like Boston was going to get a chance to, they were going to kind of like finishing quarters as we've heard. It's kind of almost become a cliche, but I think it is really is true. You know, Tatum misses a shot.

Marcus comes down, makes a three. It just never seemed like Boston could kind of get. You were talking about the ball, the ball movement. I just never thought the ball movement quite got there tonight. It just seemed like they really could never get into a. a flow throughout this one. Yeah, I mean, let's definitely talk about, like, Miami switching a little bit later. But you mentioned guys that are unknown.

I mean, you're just kind of setting me up for Caleb Martin's soliloquay here, right? I would love to set you up for something. Here, bump. Go. Hit it. You're like, you're like, bam out of bio setting these screens for me to just, you know, take a three-pointer. I'll just be like Duncan Robinson here.

Sell the up, fake uphill and cut back door. You got it. Bam. Give me some Caleb Martin. What do you got? How you feel? I want to hear it. That's a great place to start. That's a great place to start. So obviously, Caleb Martin has an incredible performance tonight. 26 points. 11 for 16. 10 rebounds.

Man, like the guy is, he's only 6'5, but he has been playing incredibly big this entire time. Like, they're basically playing him at Power Forward. I think Kyle Lowry, another guy that we should mention at some point later. Like, man, just two incredibly big performances from two not very big guys. But yeah, you talk about the cutback. The two most critical junctures of this game, game to me for Caleb Martin came. The first one came in the second quarter. The Celtics went to their two big lineup. And I think part of the reason they did that is because they were just

getting nothing from anybody else. Like Brogden just couldn't play tonight. It's pretty obvious his injury is bothering him. He was just awful. Like there's a point in the second quarter where he he missed a three. Then he almost turned it over just trying to get like a simple, you know, pocket like just a pop, a pass to Jason Tatum on the pop, and he just had to go out of the game there. But yeah, they come back out, two big lineup that hypothetically should have been pretty good for them. But immediately, you've got Caleb Martin playing the four against Al Hawford. And it was just not Al for Horford's night on defense tonight, man.

Like, he just looked slow. Miami was killing him on the drop. Caleb in particular in this moment was killing him on the drop. But they're also just like, you know, kind of like the nuggets were doing, you know, to Anthony Davis just running this huge guy on like a whole bunch of screen actions that are designed for guards to get through. He just couldn't get through them.

And then there was another play where Caleb just back caught him. And then all of a sudden there's all this attention on him. And then we get more into like the into these switches with, with Butler and Bam too. And it was just like this really critical juncture I thought where the heat basically just broke that big lineup just by having Caleb run around and hit tough shots. And then the second one was in the third quarter when, yeah, they put Rob Williams

back in the game. And again, like I mentioned, Horford's getting killed on the drop. And then you just have Caleb Martin hit two huge mid-range jumpers when the rest of like, look, the adjustment worked. The offense was not given them anything in that juncture. Like those are the best shots that you can ask for as a Celtics defense. but Caleb Martin just hit them and he hit them all night. Like I think I haven't checked the numbers on this,

but another one is just like the above the break threes as well. Like especially, you know, on a night and in a series where Jimmy Butler just hasn't been able to get like the appropriate separation to really create dangerous offense. You're going to have to live with some semi-contested above the break threes. And he hit him, Struth hit him, Vincent hit him. Kyle, Kyle Lowry hit a huge one. Yeah, just a really great all-around performance from the, from the heat roll players.

Yeah. I mean, Martin, I mean, he didn't end up getting the series MVP. I think he got, I mean, he got several vote. What did the tally end up being on that one? And do you think he? Six, four. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it really was sort of, we'll see just how, how aberrational it was going forward. I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about like Denver and what it. But Martin just seemed fearless. Like, yeah, you were right. And like getting, that's just such a big theme of like modern basketball is like just trying to find ways to get these. get bigs and actions that they're not used to defending. It's going to be a tough task for any big guy in the league. And especially one who's in his mid to late 30s, like Horford.

He just kind of got him in space, got him moving. And it was a really tough ask for him to defend somebody with such like fresh young legs like Caleb. Yeah, 10 rebounds is insane. But overall, like I just kind of thought, I thought Boston would have a chance. I've kind of thought this throughout the series that this is definitely one of those. I keep calling them an oh shit team and you'll see these teams sometimes that like, it's almost like they have some kind of weird fetish.

Like they need to like they need to feel a little bit of pain to get to get like interested in what's happening or something. Like not to be too weird about it, but like Boston just seemed to like they seem to wake up. Like they need their balls in a vice or something for them to get excited. That was what it seemed like. And it was like those teams always kind of run up against it at some point. You know, there's a point where that runs out. Like, you can't, you can't live like that. They, it always seemed like they were on their heels against this, against this Miami team to me.

Yeah, man, you can only burn the candle on both ends for so long, right? And I think this is a team that just lived and died with three point shooting, too. That was a big part of their comeback minus game seven, game six. And then game, game seven, like you mentioned, like the biggest part of the nine for 41 is the 41. just like the fact that they didn't get any offense going from anywhere else. But I think I think a big part of that is just Bam, Atabio. He had a really, he had a really strange game. He had a really strange game where if you look at the box score,

he went four for 10. He had 12 points, but he has 10 rebounds, seven assists. And the Celtics went 13 for 21 at the rim. And I think like almost all of that you have to credit to Addabio. Yeah, he was awesome tonight doing all the big kind of small things. You know, just the screen setting. The big small things.

I like that. That's good. Should it actually just be like big, big things? Because it's like we're talking about rim protection and screening. Settled. Yeah. I mean, even the stuff he doesn't block, he bothers. But yes, seven assists is wild.

And it's like, you know, another thing here is Duncan Robinson redemption. You want to talk about another story? line. I came out of game six thinking Duncan Robinson is going to think about those shots for the rest of his life. I felt bad for him. I mean, like, if you're like a rhythm shooter like him and you get to both of those threes that he missed, he was like moving for, he was stepping in. Like, and Duncan likes to shoot stepping in. Most shooters do because it's just you get a little extra, like it comes off your hands easier. Like he was not flat footed. He was in rhythm. Bricked them both.

And tonight, I mean, he had a moment where he had Houser on him. And you could tell he was just like, how dare you think you're me? Like, he back cut him one time. I just, the battle of the tall white guys who only shoot threes, I enjoyed that one. But yeah, redemption for Duncan. You love to see that. I gasped when he blocked Jalen Brown's three-pointer. That's a huge thing.

Yeah, I couldn't believe that happened. I couldn't believe that happened. I mean, Duncan Robinson is six foot eight. But like if you're Jalen Brown, like you can't be getting clothes out blocked by Duncan Robinson. That like I spat my drink out when that happened. I was like, what? Shut fake. Like, what are we doing?

Yeah, that was incredible. But yeah, I mean, the look on his face after game six, that was tough. I'm glad that he got some redemption. And it reminded me of Ramona Shelburne wrote one of the best Duncan Robinson stories a couple years ago when they're in the finals. It was about him having imposter syndrome and how they had to basically. convince him that he was a good shooter in order to get him to become like the level of an NBA

player because he just you know he wasn't they bullied him basically bullied him like I think they like threw the ball at him they basically like played dodgeball with him with a basketball I love that story so good no I love that story where Eric Spolster

was like if you don't take this shot like they were basically like I don't know they were basically like the Moss guy from the show Barry I don't know if you watched that. It's like Spolstra sat him down and got in his face. It was like, if you don't take this wild three with someone in your face, you're coming out. Like, what a life. And he eventually accepted it. But I think if you're that kind of shooter,

you have to live that way. Like you have to set the precedent of like, this guy might shoot some wild shit. Like that, that's the thing you got to do if you're a movement shooter like, like Duncan. And then it just kind of pays forward, even if you missed the shots. So like, yeah, he hit some backbreakers. They were timely. It's just my. Amy just up and down the line. They just got like, they just got timely kind of contributions like that. Like you said, Kyle, they got, you know, obviously Caleb was out of his mind. But, but Duncan, too, yeah, he just kind of, he just kind of pokes you at a moment where you're really vulnerable and it can be a back breaker sometimes. Yeah, I mean, they, I mean, they shot 50% for three, too. So this like run of towards. On the road. Come back for Miami as well. Yeah, Kyle, Kyle, who I wanted to talk about for a bit here, plus 26 on the night. Look at his box score. It doesn't look like he had a huge night. seven points, five assists, seven rebounds. I thought there were a couple big rebounds in there. But yeah, he just, I thought that the way that he ran transition tonight was just so vintage.

Like Kyle Lowry is one of the smartest players in the NBA. And when he's on, he's really on. Yeah, just shout out to Kyle. Not really much else to say there. Just like another really, really good performance. Yeah, like you said, timely, timely. Yeah, I love any time he and Grant are grifting. other. I said this on our Saturday show a week or so ago. It's just watching them come up the floor and just sort of like, I don't know, it reminded me of like when Dwight and Andy were trying to like courtesy each other to death. You remember they were just like, oh, no. You know, they're just like watching them grift each other. I was like, this is can't like, there has to be a straight man in this like in this dynamic. Like you can't have both people just can't be like constantly grifting against each other. There was another sequence I thought like in the.

The beginning, there were just kind of a lot of morale moments of like Miami pushing, you know, pushing them down the slide like in Christmas story. I'm full of references. Sorry. At the first like minute 30, you know, there was a sequence where Tatum got all the way of the rim. He obviously looked uncomfortable in his lower body. He missed that layup that rolled off. Immediately turns it. Miami was good about this all night. Like whenever there was like a wild shot that Boston took, this was very intentional.

like they would immediately push in transition and try to get an easy one and quick one. That mislayup led to a quick transition, Caleb Martin 3, and that was 7966. And then that next play was when Jalen Brown drove into Bam, just drove, put his head down, just drove into Bam, elbowed him in the face. It didn't end up being a flagrant. I don't think it was, but that was a turnover. And then on the very next play, Martin gets a steal, which leads to a Jimmy Dunk. and that was kind of you just really felt the air

come out of the building I felt like at that point you know Yeah for a Celtics crowd that by the way was far more resilient than their team was tonight just some really tough looks

really tough looks in the crowd towards the end there yeah just it was really deflating it was really deflating because I'll be honest here so there was a point in this series

I think like at some point during game six where I was like I really want Boston to do this I just want to see yeah you just want to see it happen, you know, just for the sheer fact that it's never happened before. I don't know. I just, I just kind of have this thing where like I, I think I root for improbability. I just find

improbability to be really inspiring and interesting and fun. And, you know, you always want to be able to say that you were there in that moment when, you know, this team, you know, came back from 3-0 in the first time and, and just like, also like, this is why part of the reason why I think if you're a Celtics fan, this has to be so deflating, too, is like, I think back to those post-game, it just looked like a team that had found their mojo that after like a pretty up and down season had found some sense of togetherness. And the thing is, I think if they were to win this game seven, then you're kind of heading into Denver thinking, what the hell is going to happen? Because like you have no, Denver has been the best team of playoffs.

Like there's no question about that. They've just been dominant. Um, the Celtics have been really up and down, but their ceiling is so high when they play well. And then you got like, you got Robert Williams as like one of the more interesting. Yokich defenders in the league and you're thinking, okay, like, what's going to actually happen here? I had already written down. I was kind of trying to figure out who, who, what would, what it would look like, what the matches would look like if it had gone either way. And Grant, Grant Williams has actually guarded Yokic the most in the past three, yeah, 98 times, Horford at 95. But what, what do you think about Time Lord would have been so unique about Yokch before we talk about the team that's actually

going to the finals, Miami? What, what was your expectation there? Oh, I just think he's like one of the few guys that has like the the height, the speed, the reactivity to be able to potentially slow him down. Not actually slow him. Like that's not actually a thing. That's like I was going to say you mean like sort of similar to someone like Anthony. Yeah, you try. You were going to. I'm like, oh, really? See it. Oh yeah. The guy he basically is like a- I prefer to block my own shot before anybody could block my. So like Dailin Brown. Yeah. Yeah. Like sort of a. facsimile of kind of what 80 does.

Yeah, it's interesting that they're really, I know it's an over-arcing sort of 30,000 feet kind of thing, but like, I don't even know what this means anymore, like, even after I thought it, but like there wasn't like a true, true five in this series more, you know, like traditionally. Bam has super long arms.

I think he has like seven, six. I mean, pretty long wingspan. I think Time Lord's wingspan's pretty long too. But there wasn't, there's not, there wasn't like a true, true center in this series. Like the ones that were getting in like Zeller like I mean we just didn't really we didn't see that yeah we didn't we didn't see that at all in this series either way I think it would have been an interesting thing to forecast like going forward against the nuggets like figuring out where the big bow how are you going to defend them but did you were you were you were you were you were you were you were you were you were you were just kind of in the vein of Anthony Davis like like we were yeah no I mean I'll be honest it's not something I'd given like a deep level of thought to but yeah all On the, on the center thing. So tonight, no Kevin Love, no Zeller.

They play Highsmith, who gave him some really, really good minutes, some good defense on Tatum, too. Those, I think it was the second quarter, those second quarter minutes, maybe towards the end of the second quarter of the beginning of the third, where Highsmith was playing the five. Yeah, it was the second quarter after Ben picked up that foul on a screen. I thought that it was just absolutely vital for Boston to win those minutes,

and they didn't. Yeah. That was the time to start attacking the rim. As soon as Bam got out of the game, it's like your only open runway that you had all game. Tatum got a layup and obviously, you know, he just wasn't going to be able to spam like that tonight. He just didn't have the legs.

But it was also a moment when I thought Jimmy Butler took one of his smarter gambles of the night. I think it was on a Derek White to Jalen Brown pass. That was absolutely telegraphed. He knew exactly, like you could just, you could see Jimmy creeping up. You could see the pass. like already being made in Derek White's mind. And, you know, he just runs up and gets a dunk on the other end. And that was, like, that was one of those possessions where you need to capitalize.

And they just didn't. And it was short-lived. But it's just like, you know, these series, they just have, you got to think on the fly. You know, I think, I think Miami just did such a good job of thinking on the fly tonight. Yeah, it was, Jimmy, that's like one of Jimmy's superpowers, I feel like. It's just he, when he's locked in, when he's very, very super locked in, as he liked to say, as he famously said. He's good at that.

There was another spot. I wrote this down at the start of the game. He did have some success. I know we were talking about Time Lord, but in the first quarter, I kind of felt like they set a tone where they ran this right side pick and roll like four times in a row,

and I'm pretty sure they scored every single time. There were a couple times where they caught white ball watching and they skipped for a Martin 3 at 325. Then he started picking on Time Lord. I love that we just never call him by his name. Yeah, he went at Time Lord got him to collapse, and that led to a Struce three. Strues, not as loud tonight,

but then he did it again. It got him with a baseline jumper, but it just kind of felt like, it felt like we didn't need like a Herculian performance from Jimmy, but like he was good, but we didn't need like a crazy, crazy performance. performance from him. But they had some success throughout this game attacking Robert Williams, I thought. He had a grimy night. He had a grimy night tonight, you know, 28 points on

on 28 shots, seven rebounds, six assists, three steals. Really good defense to offense moments. She obviously has not had the best series ever since he basically called a timeout on Al Forford of things kind of turned for the worst for him after that. But I think he was what he needed to be tonight. I think this is kind of like one of those typical sort of game seven performances, right? Like usually you don't have your stars go out and be incredibly efficient in the game seven, unless you're Jason Tatum taking on the corpse of Philadelphia. But, you know, for the most part, these end up being kind of games where everybody knows each other.

And I think for for Jimmy, the Celtics have always kind of presented this problem, right? Like they just have a lot of perimeter defenders that give him a lot of trouble. and he just wasn't really able to summon that magic that he had against the bucks. But to your point, like they didn't necessarily need it. And I felt like he did a pretty good job of finding guys. Like he was feeding Caleb Martin a good deal.

And he had obviously, like he bounced back from game six too. Like that was the biggest thing. He just couldn't have another game like that. And of course, of course he hit three triples. Like, of course, in an elimination game,

he would hit three triples. That's just classic Jimmy Butler. But I actually, before the game decided to go back and look at Jimmy Butler's elimination performances. It's like, we've been talking about, I'm going to hear this. Yeah.

We've been talking a lot about Jason Tatum in elimination games. That's rightfully we should. But, you know, dating back to, you know, game six when he was part of the Sixers in, in 2019 against the Raptors,

he has not, he's only had one underwhelming elimination performance. And that was game six against the Lakers when the Lakers eventually won the championship. But like, when you look at those games, it's like, you look at that game 70, against Philly, he gets that steel, gets a layup on the other end.

If Kauai doesn't hit the shot, then like, that's the shot, you know. Yeah, that's the thing we remember. Yeah, if not for that. Yeah. Yeah. And then he has that, like, Herculian performance against the Lakers where, like, he's, you know, he's got his head hanging on the pillar in the bubble, just basically try, like, his chest is violently heaving up and down.

He's just trying to summon whatever the hell he can out of his, out of his body at that point, which is probably why he had an underwhelming game six. And like the interesting ones were looking at last year. Like this, this game today reminded me a little bit of the game seven he had against Boston last year when they ended up losing on the three-pointer that he shot. But, you know, just kind of finding little ways to to make a contribution. He's a really versatile player. And like, yeah, it's just, it wasn't like a historic Jimmy Butler performance, but he gave him what they needed. And it just really tough circumstances, too.

Yeah, it seemed like Boston, like, we were talking about it, he had, you know, 11 isos for Jimmy tonight. He had four. He wasn't like crazy efficient with them. It's not like he was, like, punishing them like he was earlier in the series. He was only 0.5, 4, 5 points per possession on those ISOs in this game. So it kind of raises the question. I mean, what do you think the main thing was that shifted? I mean, was it just that he was.

picking his spots as well or was he not being able? Because, you know, he had some success against White. And I was telling you, I thought White overall had a pretty good read on his rhythm. Like, it was just the ones that he did get were sort of, he'd just big boy him, like he'd get around the basket and just go over top of him with his size. Do you think it was just that like the Celtics kind of locked back into the things they'd been doing during the regular season that bothered him with their perimeter kind of connectivity? Or what do you think shifted over the course of the series? I think that they went into the series. almost not trusting their own isolation

defense ability and maybe I mean I don't know if I was if I was game planning against the Miami Heat and I just watched what Jimmy Butler did do the course of the playoffs I would probably be a little bit over aggressive on defense too and I thought that's what they were in the first in the first part of the series I think there were a lot of times

where they kind of doubled him unnecessarily when they didn't necessarily need to and then I think they went away from that, but then they didn't bring enough. And they just didn't find the right balance until later in the series. But yeah, I think just like a mix of throwing a bunch of different perimeter looks on him, switching a ton, kind of shading him to the right areas, and getting enough from Horford and Robert Williams was enough to give him a tough series

down the line, right? And also just like flat out, they just played better defense. too. Like there was strategic changes that they made, but the boss, like the Celtics in game, you know, four to six were a very different team than, you know, the one in game one to three. Yeah, totally. It seemed like, it seemed like they had some success, like, creating, like, indecision with him and bam or in that, like, in that, like, five to 10 foot range. I feel like both teams kind of did this. And maybe, maybe it's just becoming a more popular kind of, like, schematic approach or just thing to do. Like, it's a little more.

awkward to have somebody pull the chair on you in that space instead of like kind of making you feel the contact right there because it seemed like Jimmy kind of hesitated at times but we're talking about this like Boston pulled it off and they didn't I mean like overall like um I don't know it just seemed like Boston kind of drifted away from from whatever identity was going to get them there I don't know coming away from this do you think this is going to be I guess the inevitable thing that we're going to do here is you know we talked about it a little bit already. What does this mean for Joe Missoula? What does this mean for like what they're going to do to retool? Do you run about and how much of this was purely just Tatum wasn't right? Like I don't know.

And overall like just the miraculousness of the fact that like Miami rebounded from that heartbreak from game six. But overall, I guess if you're a Boston fan, you have to kind of come away from this just wondering like, I don't know, would we be going to the finals if Tatum could have been right? I think the thing I kind of come back to is they're still really young. Like, they're still a really young core. Tatum's really young. Brown's really young. They've had a lot of reps.

But I don't know. I think maybe you break through. As the Missoula point, man, I don't know. That's an interesting question. I think he might have saved his job in the last few games here. Just by, like, he did, you know, he did a lot of things better. Honestly, he truly did. He, uh, the timeouts were called much, much quicker.

I think if you were to look at this game I think there were certain things that you know you can have Monday morning morning quarterback it a little bit I think I would have played Robert Williams more minutes I definitely wouldn't have let Al Horford be in the drop for as long as he was I'd probably just get him out of there a little bit earlier honestly just given the fact that he

wasn't an Al Horford night tonight he was slow in pretty much every coverage you're gonna run up against this again though I mean like do you think that the how much of a pain point is the Horford thing like I mean at what point does Robert Williams, is he ever going to become that guy? Is Robert Williams ever going to be able to be able to be a load-bearing wall in this championship house you're trying to build?

Like, at what point do we transition? Is it just that, I mean, Horford's like instincts on offense and things like that, it's going to be hard for Robert. Horford's just such a smart player. Like, he's an especially smart NBA player to be playing as long as he is at his age. It's also really moh. He has physical tools, but, like, I don't know. It makes you wonder at what? what point can Robert A stay healthy? And is he ever going to be qualified just sort of with

like the intangible stuff to like sort of transition? And does that need to happen? Does at some point the Robert Williams torch passing kind of thing need to happen for Boston moving forward? So let's say let's say they were to move on to that right now. What's your what's your concern with Robert Williams outside? Like health you can't control. But like is there an aspect of this that you just don't think he's ready for? No, I mean, it's probably more, he's obviously physically way more capable in some way. He even looked like he was grimacing at times. He's kind of like AD in that like, I feel like his strength is his curse and the fact that he can fly around with his length the way that he does and like contort and move angular-wise in ways that big guys can't with the reach. No, I mean,

it is health. It really is just kind of health and wondering if he's going to hold up. Like we said, Jimmy did go at him a lot in the first quarter in that pick and roll. But is that enough to like make you think like, okay, we can't lean on him. He's not like a liability. I don't know. I guess I'm just kind of thinking out loud here. It's like the Horford thing going to be, he's not, he's going to be a year older next year in the playoffs.

We're going to run up against a situation like this again. It just makes you wonder like, I mean, Galinari is standing over there and his suspenders look and fly. I mean, how is he going to factor into this? I don't think he's going to be the answer. I mean, they're going to pick. I mean, he's going to get picked on just as much as Horford does defensively. I don't know.

It's just something that's kind of, it's just on my mind. If I'm the Celtics, you know, I love Horford. He's a great player. Yeah, absolutely. But you got to be wondering about that. If Miami's poking that sore over and over again, I don't expect that to heal. I don't expect that to just go away, you know, a year from now. I don't know.

I think obviously he's been a lot more inconsistent this year. I think overall he had a pretty good series. I think he was really great against Bam in the Post. One of the smarter things Miami did this game was try to give Bam more of a runway. but even that didn't really necessarily work. Yeah, I think this was one of his worst games on defense. Obviously, regression is going to be the theme for him going forward. But at the same time, I think it seems like a lot of moments where he did show up and give them what they needed.

Just that you can't count on him every night. It's a pretty natural transition over to Robert Williams. Obviously, he's a very different type of player, but he still gives you a ton on offense. Like he's an incredible lob threat. He was four for five tonight. He only played 14 minutes. He had eight points and six rebounds. And he's just such a threat on the offensive rebounds too.

So it's like he's, I think he's going to be able to give you offense just in a different way. And on defense, I think, man, he's just, he creates impossible scenarios sometimes on defense. I mean, the guy is just like he has do it all capabilities.

You know, he's a guy that like can be, like how many guys can basically be in a defensive stance and also block a three point shot? Like, it's just really difficult to do. And he's one of the few guys that can do it. Like, he can really, really shrink the floor. And I, but I look at the series overall.

Like, I'll take, I'll take what I got from Robert Williams on, on Jimmy Butler. Like, that's, I live with that. We're talking about Jimmy Butler in the playoffs here. Like, we see what he did to every other team. Like, he's going to do something, right? So, I don't know. Punk drew holiday. I mean, you can't get too carried away nitpicking case by case.

And I don't want to overstate it. I mean, I don't think it's, I don't want, I don't want self-ex fans to like, get on them, come and say this. No, I'm saying like, I'm saying like at some. In that voice, please. No, I haven't pissed them off in a while. It's actually just going to be Bill. Yeah, Bill.

You, no, I, I just think at some point it's kind of, it's a thing that it makes you wonder if it's not going to tilt all the way. Like, let's, let's punt Al Horford. I don't think it's like that. It just makes you wonder if at some point the pie just kind of divides itself a little bit more leaning Robert Williams' direction is kind of the thing I'm saying. I mean, but overall, you're right. I mean, Horford,

Horford had a lot of, like, just incredible moments in this series. And overall, going back to the Missoula thing, and then I do think we should kind of talk just for a second about, like, what the finals are going to be like or what we expect. But I kind of am to the point, and I said this in other places, that, like, I just don't want to hear it.

Like, I don't want to hear it blamed on Missoula. Like, just because there's just so much playoff experience. like an abnormal amount of playoff experience among a core this age. Like these guys have played a crazy amount of playoff games. If you're talking about like the young Lakers, the young spurs like during their title runs, I just kind of, you know, you can obviously nitpick Missoula's choices here and there.

Maybe even more than nitpick. You made some big mistakes here in there. But like I don't know, I just kind of feel like they're, that is a symptom. to me of a disease for Boston and going into this offseason, I think they're going to have a lot of kind of soul searching kind of questions, I think. Yeah, I think you're right.

Yeah, I think you're right on the Missoula point, too. Obviously, it's not been perfect. There were points earlier in this series where I would say, yeah, fire the guy. But it seems like he's learning on the job. He's obviously very young. If you look at his rotations tonight, we talked about Brogden, he only got seven minutes. Yes, Williams could have played more. Grant Williams gave him nothing, nothing at all.

And I think that was a big point that, you know, I think Celtics fans wanted more Grant Williams. They wanted less Peyton Pritchard. Rightfully so. But it's just kind of, you know, at a certain point when enough guys don't show up and Jalen Brown is doing what he is doing. And, you know, Marcus Smart, we didn't even talk about tonight. I think that's, I think that tells you everything you need to know.

We didn't talk about him tonight after he was just like he, the fingerprints that he left all over game six and just like the other games in the series and this comeback were incredible. And he just wasn't there tonight. He's won for six from three. I'm racking my brain to think of a Marcus Smart play tonight that mattered to me and I cannot. So like that's that's another big one. Like they're just, you just need, it was like, you know, Tatum was looked like he was going to show up and obviously he got hurt and it just didn't seem like they had an answer beyond that.

Maybe you can put some of that on Missoula. But they also, here's the other thing. I guess the last point here, the nine from 42 from three, they got a lot of good shots. They got a lot of wide open shots, especially in that first half. Like, they solved Miami switching, you know? Like, it was like, let's slip on the pick and roll. Jalen had one really nice slip, but, you know, Al Horford slip. And then before he even lands, he hits a cornerman for three.

And that's great offense. And they just miss shots. And yes, they're too, too reliant. The point of good offense is to generate good looks and they missed them. Yeah. That's just, and that's perfect execution by Miami, too, on a lot. lot of those. I mean, yes, like there's a missed shots aspect of it too, but they did not want to let Boston get a lot going at the rim. So, you know, great job Bam out of bio. Great job on the rotations.

And at this point in the series, it's like, you know, it's not about coming up with more answers. Like the answers have been, like they've presented themselves. It's just kind of about who goes out and plays better. And Miami, their role players showed up. And the stars gave enough. And Bam was awesome on defense and they just got freely timely performances from a lot of different guys and it's just that's what you get that's what happens I don't know yeah so there's no quick fix

there's no quick fix for Boston maybe they don't need a quick fix maybe they're you know they're obviously very close this was game seven the Eastern conference finals so tough it's a tough one for them this this is becoming a pretty incredible rivalry these two teams and you know if you if you had to

really quickly like a year from now you know feet to the fire here, which of these players in the Boston core do you think won't be there if you had to pick one, if one player had to move on, if they were going to make a move or tweet? That's a good question. I would say probably Brogden or Jalen Brown. Maybe Al Horford. I don't see it with smart.

I honestly don't. Maybe that's my wishful thinking. Obviously, he's going to be a candidate. I just hope it's not him. I just don't think you trade him. What do you think? The Brown thing would be a major retool. I'll be honest here. This might not go over well with some people, but I don't, I never understood the obsession with keeping him. Like with some of the leverage that they had to potentially get like higher tier stars. I don't know. Brown has been a guy that I've always been like really, really impressed with his development, but I've always just been like, there's always there's just these things that just kind of keep resurfacing. That would be that would be a big one. I mean, I don't know. I could see them moving on from Grant, but I don't think, I don't know if you want to include him in their like core, core.

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Don't let Michael Pina hear any of this. Yeah. Oh, Pina. I'm sure he'll, I'm sure he's, like I was saying, I'm sure Pina's pin is catching fire right now, writing, writing an incendiary review of this series. But yeah, this was an incredible drama pack series. That last game. I was, I tweeted this out. I like, my heart was pounding at the end of that game. And I was just like, I don't. care who wins this and I'm like a nervous wreck right now. I mean you can't really ask for much more from a playoff game honestly. No, no. I mean like the sheer amount of things that weren't supposed to happen that happened in this series and then specifically happen in that game like the fact that the only the only player to ever hit a buzzer beater to save off elimination before that was Michael Jordan. So Derek

White and Michael Jordan. Congratulations. Pretty equal commodities to me honestly. I'm expecting the shoe line to kind of take off here soon. So I don't know. That's why I still believe in the Celtics. Yeah. I mean, that's like, talk about a guy who showed up. That's one guy who absolutely showed up. There were moments where they were kind of trying to run offense through him.

And it was kind of like, is this going to happen? I mean, he still was five or 12. I mean, he didn't shoot it well from three. And he was getting to the line. You ended up being minus seven in this game. But 18 points overall. Derek White, yeah. Minutes seven was the best plus minus amongst the starters.

God bless. How do you feel about the finals? I mean, you think does Denver, I mean, I'm picking Denver. Yeah, I mean, me too. Obviously, I've not had like the longest time to think about it. But yeah, what do you, what's your, what's your kind of initial takeaways on the finals? What are you going to do with Yokic?

We talked about the true five thing. Yokic plays with the skill that is not exclusive to any position. I mean, he plays with the skill that you'd be happy to have at any position. and he's, do we need to praise? I feel that the ringer has just kind of been overboard. I mean, and probably not overboard. He deserves all of it. But like, bam in their matchups in the last three seasons,

it's been bam and nobody else. So this is kind of like, unless they change something up, bam, 215 matchups in the half court, excluding, you know, full court possessions. And no, I think Orlando Robinson was second with like 19. So this is like, I don't know, unless they, unless they do some kind of curve. ball on the tape here and go some other direction.

That's who's going to be checking him. It's just going to be a matter of, I don't know. I feel like in terms of the way the Celtics bailed them out with failing to create easy offense, Denver is not going to do that. So I'm tempted to just say another sweep, but it could be nuggets in five. I guess the better question is, do you think the heat win a game? Do you think they win two games? I give Jimmy Butler a game.

Okay. I think Jimmy Butler can get him a game. Obviously, it's a very different defensive scenario for Miami now and for Jimmy. So that'll make a difference. A question on the BAM thing, how did he do in those possessions? In those games, let's see. The interesting thing, like if you pull up the matchup data with, like, Yokic and AD, like, AD kind of pushed him to become more of a score in those matchups.

I mean, 4.6 assists. Let's see, effective field goal percentage, 64% for Yokic. not bad but I mean like I feel like in the recent kind of track record you know the nuggets have fared pretty well but yeah I'd have to sit down and kind of like take a closer look to before I make a prediction but it's it's hard to pick against the nuggets right now because they're sitting back and they're resting up now too so um you know Miami like we were saying we were making the point that like they seem they even seemed tired in this game where they played well it was funny like I made this observation that like a lot of their shots I noticed

were like crawling over the rim, even though they were going in, which you made the point that it might be their legs, which I think is a good, is an astute kind of take away from that. Quick turnaround here. And you're going to Denver with the altitude thing, which we've seen be a factor. So yeah, a lot of interesting things. And I know, like the Bleacher Report tweeted out that Miami had already booked their travel and that made a lot of people mad. They didn't end up being enough motivation for Boston.

Miami's going into this, going into the finals, you know, second time since. since the bubble. So I don't know. We'll see if they do. That was just an absolute incredible manufacturer drama. Of course they booked their flights. I know I love that.

Of course they booked their flights. Guys, come on. But yeah, I mean, it'll be interesting to kind of see the perimeter matchups

kind of restabilize themselves too, right? Like, even for Denver, Denver coming off a series where they had to deal with LeBron James and they had to kind of punch

above their weight. Like, that was kind of the biggest question for me in that series. and, you know, LeBron just wasn't really able to appropriately answer it. And then in this series, I think, you know, Caleb Martin goes from guarding Jason Tatum to guarding a guy like Jamal Murray or Contavia is called Well Pope. And, you know, I think obviously Michael Porter Jr. is still going to provide a lot of issues.

We'll probably see some highsmith on him. But yeah, like, you know, you're not having like these big, brilly guys shooting over you. And I think for both teams, that's kind of a welcome change. Like the matchups, I think, like just thinking about it right now make a lot more since just one to one for both sides. It kind of makes you wonder if Miami's going to be able to attack Yokic the way that they did. If they go with those smaller kind of no big lineups, like, you know,

that's something like the Lakers didn't really do as much. It'll be interesting to see. Yeah, I'm excited for it. Yokic versus an air exposter zone. It's just going to be so fun. Oh, my God. Yeah.

It's going to be, well, just the timing on how long it takes him to sort of, of like unravel it if you can, which I've never, never doubt, Nicola. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, it's just fun when you watch watching a really great player be challenged by a really great defense. When you kind of know that he's going to eventually figure it out, it just adds new wrinkles to his game, to the game in general. So I'm excited. I think it'll actually probably be a more entertaining series. I don't like it could be short for sure. But Miami's just not really, Miami doesn't get blown out very often, right?

So I think, you know, Denver is definitely the superior team here, but I'm excited. It should be good. Enjoyed this sort of reconvening here, Sir, it hadn't seen you in a while and hadn't done any potting. I know you guys missed me terribly over here on the answer. It's surprised. I'm surprised the show kept going. You know, I'm surprised you recovered from having my grumpiness not in your life on a weekly basis. But it's good to see that you're persevering. You're with, you're with Pina, you know. I like, Pina's one of the sharpest dudes. So, you know, we're the successor. You know, I know succession is a big thing we're talking about.

I'm glad Pena ended up in the, in the chair when I left. Yeah, you know, it's, it's been tough. It's been tough without you, Kyle. I'm not going to lie. I'm really, I'm really glad that we got to have this opportunity to kind of reconvene again. It's a little bit like, it's a little bit like Connor and the fake dinner that you had with a on the screen going with uh with uh logan and kind of just seeing you know there those two were just being pals and that's you know that's that's one thing that i look forward to though like

now that you and i are not adversaries on the same podcast perhaps we could actually become friends i'm not going to get ahead of myself but uh it's a possibility i'll consider sir it's a possibility i'll consider oh i thank you for the opportunity oh yeah and uh before we go before we take off here I'm actually just stalling here so I can continue to spend a little bit more time with you. Because I know that it's- Oh, that's adorable. Thank you. Well, you know, it's just like you're a hard guy to reach, you know.

You're just, you've become such a big celebrity these days. Like you're posing with a Larry O'Brien trophy. It's just, you know, and it's nice to see your rise. You deserve all the accolades that you're getting. But, you know, I just don't want you to forget about me. But yeah, you know, just since I've got you here, I'm curious what you think of the Sixers hiring Nick Nurse. I think it's going to be good for them. It kind of makes the Harden thing interesting because, you know,

sort of hardens idea of what is restrictive, I think is going to be interesting in this because nurse's approach in the past few years, he went from just like this like adorable task master in the way that Tibb, it's a Tibbsian sort of a thing, right? Where we're like, oh man, he turned them around, you know, that's awesome. And then it's just those types of coaches have a way of sort of grinding people. down and wearing out their welcome. But on the other side, I really think that I don't know that Philly needs sort of a personnel, you know, soothing whisperer at this point. I think they need somebody to sort of like give them a good kick in the ass. And I was joker with our buddy Chris Ryan

about this is kind of be like the FBI hiring Frank Abagnale, you know, like all the different ways that teams have like figured out how to bother MBE. I feel like that is one of nurses' specialties in the Eastern Conference with like bothering Janus, bothering, you know, whoever it is. It could work. I feel like I kind of thought that maybe the Celtics needed to do something like this, too. Like they needed just like an X and O whiz, you know, whoever that would be. But a lot of teams are trying to upgrade their coach here.

Overall, I think it could work. I definitely didn't think they needed to go in the other direction like the Antoni route. I don't know. I'm tentatively optimistic about it, but the personality-wise part of it kind of makes me, that's the sort of reservation I have about it. How do you feel? Me too. I actually like the personality clash.

I think it can be a productive conflict sometimes. And I think that's kind of what the Sixers need. You know, I think they need a coach that is going to call them out every once in a while. Like I think Doc was just far to, you kind of sucked up to a star players a little bit. And, you know,

it caters him a little bit. And I think that, you know, I don't think like Nick Nairus is going to be afraid of basically giving these post games quotes that are, that could, you know, double as the voiceover to a James Harden defensive low light reel. I think perhaps we'll see somebody make one of those. But that's okay.

That's like, you know, sometimes that is what the doctor ordered. No pun intended there at all. But yeah, I just, I think it can work. I think Joelle and Bid and Nick Nurse are going to have to, you know, have a couple glasses of wine together. But maybe the reason that they clashed in those playoffs and, you know, we're getting into it over the refs. and stuff is because maybe, you know, maybe they're kind of kindred spirits.

So that could work. I think Joelle is a guy that can handle accountability. I think he craves accountability a little bit more than people, I think, think he does. Olds other people accountable. So, I mean, I would assume he should be. Just saying. Yeah. Yeah.

So I think, you know, there is a universe in which just makes sense. And obviously, this is a team that's needed a lot more creativity on the court on both ends. and that's definitely something that Nick Nairz can give you. So, yeah, I mean, that's not to say that's the, my only thing is, like, this can't be the only thing. Yeah, I think, I think Philly has just structural issues that were exposed in the playoffs. I think they're just too slow.

I think they're going to have to change the way their offense looks. I think if I'm Tyrese maxi, you know, I'm salivating a little bit. Oh, yeah. Great for him. Yeah, this is awesome for him. From James Hardin. I don't know. I don't know exactly what I'm thinking, but.

Can Fanduel give us some odds on, like, how soon Harden tunes out, Nick Nurse? Is it, is it going to be December? Is it going to be January? I don't know. Maybe it's by Thanksgiving.

I'm just going to be curious to see how this goes down because didn't, wasn't there a quote that he said Doc was too restrictive? I just thought that was interesting. I don't know. I just thought that was, that was something, you know, or maybe nurse,

maybe nurse kind of adjusts the way he does things. I doubt it, but, you know, we'll see. And what kind of staff does he break? I don't know. I'm curious to see how plays out. The staff will be interesting too.

I don't, I think nurse is a little bit more flexible than I don't think he's necessarily always tied to his system. I think he definitely was this year. But I think you throw some star players in the mix and, you know, suddenly everybody becomes a lot more flexible. You know, this is also the same coach that like, you know, he's like all, basically all of his players led the NBA in minutes. But, you know, Kauai Leonard never did. So, yeah, we'll see. Indeed, we will.

Well, I've kept you here for long enough. please reply to my text messages and many, many phone calls and voice notes. I have it. There's been no phone calls. I've replied to the text. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. You send me numbers from burners.

You lose your phone and stuff. That's not my fault. If I keep getting these weird texts from numbers, I'm like, okay, what's that mean? Who is this? You know, I don't know. You're going to have to just announce your presence more clearly instead of getting mad at me, not responding to your burners. Well, you know, I've been on the run.

been on the run just trying to lay low a little bit, but I still want to be in contact with the people who are important to me. So, you know, some flexibility on your part would be kind of cool, I guess. But all right, well, seriously, thank you for stepping in. We'll be back next week with Michael Pina, I'm sure, and watch out for whatever Michael writes after this game. I'm sure it'll be very cathartic. And we're going to have a ton of great coverage on the ringer

and they'll lead up to the final. So please check it out. Thank you, Kyle. Thank you, Chris Sutton, and thank you, Ben Cruz, for producing.