The Ringer NBA Show - Was the In-Season Tournament a Success? Plus, Is Bron and Bronny Playing Together Really a Possibility? | Real Ones

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

Logan, Raja, and Howard deep dive on the overall success of the in-season tournament and how important LeBron’s treatment of the tournament was for how seriously it was taken by the rest of the league and NBA fans (02:00). Later, the guys react to Bronny James’s USC debut with LeBron in attendance, before looking ahead to the possibility of the first father and son duo in the NBA (38:30). Hosts: Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody? It's Austin Rivers from Offguard, and I've got some exciting news. Offguard hosted by me and my guide, Pasha Gigi, is officially moving to our own podcast feed. We are now dropping two shows every week. Me and Pasha go way back and talk so much hoops already that we figured it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on these conversations. Every week, Pasha and myself will hit on the biggest stories happening around the league. Tap into the show twice a week on our new OffGard feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. What's popping?

Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bill there, Howard Beck in the Cut. Mother fucking Mondays. We are back from Vegas. Well, I am back at least. Roger's been back for some time. How's everybody doing? I am very, very tired. What's going on? I'm great. I didn't go to Vegas, so

I'm wide awake. I had a rough day on my 12-hour turnaround the next day, but I'm feeling pretty good now. How rough was your turnaround, Roger? Well, no, I mean, I'd be flat to Vegas for the evening, right? And then had like an 8 a.m. flight the next morning coming back.

So when I got home, like I was a little out of sorts the next morning, but I'm good now. Good weekend. All right. Okay. How was your weekend, Howard? Pretty mellow, fellas. Pretty mellow. Hung out of home.

Watch some NBA tournament action Saturday night, some cup. And, yeah, enjoyed not having any NBA to watch on. I kind of like, I know this is heresy, guys. We had two straight Sundays with no NBA games, which meant. I didn't feel like I had to watch basketball is great, but we watch a bazillion hours a season. I kind of like the days where I could just be like, let's pull up a movie or something. Yeah, yeah.

It was fun. I watched a little morning show last night after the football game. It was pretty good. It was vibe. You know, the Eagles didn't show up, but morning show did. What's that? Is that Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon. It's good.

Is it worth it? Adam Carrell. Yeah, it's great. It's very triggering if you were in the media. I don't know if Howard has watched it, but it's, you know. No, we've, we've, we've, we've watched all, what was it, two seasons now, three, whatever it's been. Three? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

First season was really good. It's been fine. I thought, like, it's good, it's a good, solid show. It's, it's not top of the world. Okay. For sure. Well, let's get back to Vegas. The Lakers are the champions of the league for the moment, the end season tournament NBA

Cup champions. It was a good event. I had a blast. but it seemed like, and I don't want to get your opinion on this to start, Howard. It seemed like a boon for the NBA for everything that they want to do in their future. It felt like they were building a bridge to where they want to go, right? Where they want to have the expansion team. They also want to pitch themselves for the next TV deal.

From someone that's 3,000 miles away, but a lot of, you know, inroads in the league. Howard, what did you think about this? On a scale of 110, what would you give this weekend for the NBA's prospects towards this future? How do they do this weekend? So do you want to focus just specifically on like this final couple rounds or the final, the championship as opposed to the tournament broadly? Yes.

So look, I haven't seen what the ratings were. And I'm not a big ratings guy. I'm not sure I care. Obviously the league needs people to watch. but I would say the thing that to me struck me as a success, Saturday night in particular, with the championship game, it was a good game, it was a hard fought game, it was played, I thought at a pretty high level. Obviously, the Pacers struggled a little bit. They're a younger team that, hey, look, the Lakers are a team that has real championship aspirations for next spring. The Pacers, it's very early in their cycle. I didn't expect it necessarily was going to be the best we would ever see of Tyrese Halliburton and those guys. But it was a good game. And the vibes were there, right? You guys were in the building, so you know, or at least Logan was in the building. Like, it came through on TV.

This felt like a playoff game. Like, for all of the skepticism I have had about, like, how much does this matter? How much does it matter to the players, to the teams, to the fans? The intensity level of the championship game in particular, and I would say even most of the knockout games, the Pelicans notwithstanding. The Pelicans showed up just to be the exception that proved the rule. Everybody really cares about this thing except I guess apparently Zion Williamson who Spike, I'm ready to just like check out now. But otherwise, like if you wanted this to make it feel like regular season games

had a little bit higher stakes, more intensity, I think that worked. And I think a championship game was great. I mean, I still look at it as like, I don't know really what it meant for LeBron to hold up that cup. I don't know what that cup means. We won't be talking about it after today's podcast. We will stop. We won't talk about it again until next October because it's really not that significant. But mission accomplished in that everybody acted like it mattered, so it mattered. If we all believe it matters, it's a psychological exercise. If we all believe it matters, then it matters. The players treated it like it mattered. They played at a higher level.

Fans were then on board. The game was exciting. As a basketball matter, I've got nothing no criticism, no complaints. Yeah, I would agree with all of that. I would add that, you know, what I personally was looking for was, and I was wrong, I said no one would be popping champagne in a locker room after winning that. But they were.

And- And Mickelope Ultra. I was in the hallway. It was, it was championship light for sure. They were way more excited than I thought they would be. Well, wait, championship like or championship light, L-I-T-E? Both. Both.

Yes. But, yeah, so that's what I would add. I agree with everything Howard said, and I would add. I was looking to see how the players would react to actually winning it after, you know, the stakes were raised. That's one thing to be in the middle of a competition. Like I've told you, it doesn't take a lot to incentivize NBA players to compete or professional athletes. It's just what you're wired to do. So in the heat of that, when you're playing the game, you're going to be competing.

what you act like after you won it was going to be interesting to me. And they celebrated, at least, you know, to a certain degree. And I think that, you know, that kind of supports what Howard said in terms of if it means something to everybody, then it means something. So, you know, it's always, everyone's always looking for a reason to go to Vegas. Vegas handled and represented themselves well. I think that was a win for the NBA. Like that's, you know, first year of the cup to have the level of competition that you did for most. of it to have the celebratory

like, you know, LeBron James popping champagne on his younger teammates like after like I think that was that was one big win for the NBA. Now I also agree that it's a rap and I don't know ultimately, you know, how much of a storyline it is after today, but as far

as the cup itself, the way guys went after it, making a footprint and introducing it to the world, win. How important, and we're talking to obviously going to talk about LeBron, he was the MVP of the tournament, but like, Howard, how important was his buy-in from the start for the overall success of this tournament, right?

Like, he took it seriously. I thought about even the game on Thursday where he's taking charges. He's, he is, he is playing really hard as hard as that I've seen to play all season, right? But the buy-in from him and by extension, the Lakers winning this title, the, you know, the league's most glamorous franchise, one of those. one of the most storied franchising league, how important it was for all those things who happened in unison for this first tournament? Because it's not going to be like this every year, right? The Lakers aren't at least, the math doesn't check out that they're going to win the

tournament every year or have the star power this time every year. How important was it this first year off for LeBron and the Lakers to take it serious for the league? Huge, huge. And by the way, the downside of that is, and you just alluded to it, Logan, The downside is a lot of the reason we were all really excited about the game Saturday night is because it involved LeBron James. Like LeBron James, no matter whether you love him or don't love him, no matter where he's been, Miami, Cleveland, L.A., whatever. Like, it's a given. If LeBron is playing in a high-stakes game, we are watching. And the average fan, this is a really important point. Casual fans, would casual fans have tuned in Saturday night?

And would we all be as excited about the NBA Cup if it had been like Pelicans Pacers or Wolves Magic? And so I'm just saying like in a different scenario, right? If those would be like that. Oh, Howard. Hold on. Logan, what kind of face was that? That was a steak face, dog. I don't want to see that.

Yo, I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie from a viewing watching experience. I probably told you this, Roger, in Vegas. was like if the Pelicans played a Pacers dog, I don't know if I can, I don't know. I might just go home. All right. One, we need a screen cap of Logan's face. I just stick that on all the social media channels to highlight this segment.

Two, I think this is the weakness in the whole argument. While everyone is raving and, oh, what a great success. The Lakers were one very questionable timeout away from not making it to the NBA Cup final, right? Or to the semifinals for that. matter. And LeBron won't be around forever, we think. Well, someday he might actually retire.

So what was the final going to be? And by the way, from a basketball standpoint, the Timberwolves, I don't mean to diss them. The Timberwolves and Magic are good, fun, young, rising teams. The Timberwolves have a shot at making a really deep run in the West. Magic, not so much in the East, but these are good teams with good young players and stars on them. And sure, Anthony Edwards would put on a show. Franz Wagner and Palo Bancaro could put on a show. But it wouldn't have felt as important or as fun or as intriguing or pulled in as many of the casual fans without LeBron James. So that to me underscores kind of the weakness or potential weakness of this because we wouldn't be sitting here raving about this on a Monday morning if the Lakers don't make it. And LeBron taking charge.

Like LeBron had people like the stats at info people at ESPN like running to the archives to figure out the last time he took three charges in a half of a game or whatever. saw somebody tweeting out the stat like it had been a long time. That's great. That's cool. LeBron set the tone. And credit to LeBron and the Lakers for doing so. But yeah. And look, all that notwithstanding, the good thing is this.

Next year when it's maybe not the Lakers and not LeBron, the bar has been set. Guys, I, I, LeBron James, the greatest player of this generation of one of the probably two greatest, three greatest, whatever, of all time, depending on where you are on that debate. I have set the tone. I have set the bar. This is what we do. This is how we treat this tournament.

And that, I think, is good for the rest of the league because it gave them all something to shoot for. Roger, when I was talking to a few people like pregame on Saturday. And one of the consistence that we got was how perfect of a tournament this is for LeBron James and that he's only, he's playing seven games that he has to play hard in, right? He has a carrot in front of, in like in front of him to win something. and it's early in the season. How do that manifest itself in your eyes on the court when he's playing, right? Where it is early in the season. But when the lights are on, you've been around him.

We've seen him play. What does that do to him? And how do that manifest on the court during this in-season tournament, at least over the weekend? Well, I think it's pretty simple for LeBron. You just don't have to regulate yourself. when you know that it's seven games, you're not getting deep into a seven game series. And it's not going to potentially take, you know, I don't know, 16 wins, you know, over the course of however many games to get a championship.

Like it's definitive. It's seven of them, right? So you don't have to pace your way through it and worry about having something maybe, you know, the next, not tonight, but two nights from now. And then having something in reserve when you catch that flight to X, Y, and Z. And you got to play two games there. It's a lot easier for him at this point in the season with what he's got in the tank versus late season once that tank is already empty. And then not knowing how many games you're going to have to get in a series to win it, right?

That one game scenario, it's a lot more definitive for him. And it allows him to go out there and really lay it all out there in a way that he might not be able to do every night in a, at least in theory, seven game series. what did you when it was just interesting to see him be able to do that because it seemed like there was like just a chip on his shoulder from from the from the jump start i don't know if it was zion williamson the first game and maybe wanted to send the message to the rest of the league that the pelicans ain't what we think they are i don't know what it was but it seemed like there was some drummed up interest from lebron the NBA season is back and you can get in on all the buzzer beaters ankle breakers and tomahawk jams with fan duel america's number one sports book right now new customers can get $200,000, in bonus bets, guaranteed when you place a $5 bet. Let's look at some of the games. Wizard Sixers, wow. I think I'm going to take the over, but it's not going to be pretty. Let's look at Pacers' Pistons.

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Here's a real question, Roger. I got two words for you. Anthony Davis Oh, I don't come on. Okay. Yes, let's go. Let's go. Let's do it.

Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. What's go. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. He owned the game from the onset on Saturday.

All I could think about was talking to you about this very subject. What were your thoughts on the game, on his game in particular? How did you feel? You're just trying to say. Throw him a lot. Okay. Yeah, you know I am. You know the vibes.

Of course. You know what it was. But there's no set up. He is who he is. He's great. When he's great. Like, I mean, the Lakers don't win a championship a couple years ago without AD being great. Like, he was great.

He was great in the final of the cup game. Like, but he'll also turn around and be great in a first half and go absolutely radio silent in a second half of a game that you, that you really need him to be good in. And so the end. inconsistencies are what trigger me with AD. I know he's a great player. Any idiot can watch him play and say,

Jesus Christ, how do you defend that? What do you do with a guy that's that long and athletic with that type of skill set? Like that, I concede all of that. Like, I am not taking anything away from what he is as a physical player. I simply worry about,

you know, um, overall health with him because, I mean, his track record gives me reason. to worry about that. And secondly, I worry about the mindset. And I think that's fair.

Like, I mean, if you're an AD fan, like, I hear you. You probably don't love hearing me say that. But I think a lot of people would agree. Like, you just, I don't know that I trusted. It was a little tough to see that I'm him after the layup. And I'm just like, I need him to be there more consistently. I need him to be like this. Of course.

And I don't begrudge in that. Like, shit. Tell everybody. or him. Like, let me know. I'm with that. Like, you deserved it. You earned it. Let them know. Let me know. But at the same time, like, if we're being honest, there have been enough times where you haven't been there that would give us pause for you being the number one on a franchise that we cheer for and want to win championships. And I think both of those things are true. What did you think when you saw the performance? HB.

Phenomenal, amazing, awesome performance and reminds us why Anthony Davis was good enough to be not only a guy who we talked about as a potential perennial MVP candidate, even going back to his days in New Orleans and talked about for a long time as a top 10 guy. And he kind of falls in and out of that because Anthony Davis just part of it is health.

Part of it is just whatever. Like the intensity level just kind of waxes in wanes, right? And, you know, this is a guy who made the top 75. team and I was one of the voters for that and he was on my ballot and there have been multiple times in the last few years where I've gone

I think I might want that one back you know we did that exercise a year after the Lakers won the championship somebody made a really interesting point I can't remember who it was or I would credit them but you know Anthony Davis and LeBron James all the energy they brought

to the knockout games last week comes after like there were the there was that big gap of days off Everybody got a rest before the quarterfinals and semifinals. It was a light week overall. Like, they were fresh. A similar argument, by the way, that they said about the bubble. In the bubble.

So that's exactly what I was getting to. So those is the point that somebody else, like I said, had heard somebody make this in the last couple of days. And it's a really, it's a fair point. Like those guys, again, this is not to throw asterisk on anything. The cup isn't even important enough to put an asterisk on. But the bubble thing, I'm not putting an asterisk on. they did have all this time off for two perpetually injured guys to get healthy, and especially at the late stages of LeBron's career.

And so this was a similar situation where, yeah, they got to really like treat it as if this was all or nothing, as if the fate of the world depended on winning one game. And that's a harder thing to sustain over 82 games. It's a harder thing to sustain through four rounds of best of seven, which is why, by the way, I don't know if we're going there with this, but like, if anybody's tried to draw, conclusions from the Cup and the tournament itself, please don't. Like, the Pacers are a team on the rise and they showed it, but we knew that anyway, with or without going to the Cup final, we knew they were a team on the rise.

They're not contenders now because they made the finals of the Cup. The Lakers, we already knew that given good health and chemistry, we're going to be in the mix in the West and potentially could make a run to the finals. And we already knew that with or without the Cup. So I just plead with people, do not ascribe too much meaning to anything we just saw. It was interesting, Rosetta, to hear that narrative. Like, you heard it even in, like, in Vegas itself. Like, I don't know how many times I got the question, both on the air and off the air, about are the Indiana Pacers a contender in the Eastern Conference?

And I was like, the Sixers are out there. They're the Bucks. I mean, I know they beat the Bucks, but come on. The Celtics, there are a lot of teams. That's just in the Eastern Conference. Can we just relax the heat? Like, they haven't even done anything. They have not done anything whatsoever.

whatever. Like, what do you think? As a player, what did you see from just, what did that tell you about the current media landscape that we are in when you, when you kept, I know you heard it too. Yeah, we're, I mean, listen, our media landscape now, everyone's a prisoner at a moment. Like, we're all, we're all, I mean, if you play a great game, you're a top 10 player to ever do it. If you have a bad game, a couple games later, like, you don't deserve an NBA contract. You know what I mean? Like, well, that's, that's the world we live in. It's just a pendulum swing. so far, you know, from one side to the other. It's ridiculous. But I like the Pacers. I'm putting the Pacers right where I thought the Pacers and a fun, exciting team. If you're in a one game

scenario with the Pacers and they are shooting the ball, well, it is a scary thing. They're the type of team you don't want to see in a one game scenario for that reason. They get hot. And if they get hot and all things are firing on all cylinders that night, you could really be in trouble. even if you play your best, right? But over the course of seven, like trying to navigate and keep the guns ablaze for 28 games or 22 games on the course to trying to win 16,

I don't believe in that because they don't defend well enough yet. Now, they tapped in at times and defended a little bit better when I was watching, but again, man, like that doesn't happen. Not to be that bad defensively, at least statistically. even if your offense is as good as it is, you've got to defend. And so I think that as the game, again, it's as old curmudgeon shit, it doesn't slow down the way it used to slow down in the playoffs, but it still slows down.

You know, as their pace gets chopped away at, as people start really locking in and really game planning in a way that stymie some of the shit you want to do, albeit there are times where they don't do a lot. So it's hard to game plan for a mobile just running down and just, what? It's not as easy to like kind of map out a defensive strategy, but but they will in a way that they don't get to over the course of like a regular season. I just think it's it becomes exponentially more difficult for them to to win games. And I'm not saying they can't win in a playoff, but they ain't winning no championship. Absolutely not.

It's just interesting because when I do look at the Pacers, they're so well coached though, right? Like they always are always going to be in it. Like a guy like Rick Carlyle is one of the best that we've ever seen. My question arises, like in a playoff scenario to what you just said about playing against a team like the Bucks or playing against a team like the Celtics, what would that do in a series with those two guys? And how will their youth manifest in a series like that? Because on the one hand, I feel like if you put those two teams together, Rick Harlow is the better coach. However, it doesn't really matter because they're playing against more talented teams. but how does that manifest in a playoff series

when you have those two things coming together? Well, I mean, I really don't know. I would just say that, you know, Rick Carlisle, Rick Carlo is a great coach, and he'll have him prepared. But Rick Carly don't go out there and play the damn games. And so I'm not taking anything away from, I mean, Bruce Brown has playoff experience.

They're players over there on the Pacers that have real playoff experience. I'm not saying that they, that they don't, but generally speaking, when you have a team that's less experienced in those moments versus a team that's got more experience and talent is relatively even, I'm trusting, I'm trusting the dudes who have been there. I'm trusting the ones that know what it's like, three and a half minutes to go. Yeah, we want to get up and down and fire these shots at will. We're up for trying to nurse a lead that's dwindling, and somebody has the experience to

come down on that one possession after we've given up maybe five straight points and have missed a few threes and just not take the debate. I'm tempted to shoot this three. If it goes in, I'm a hero. And if I don't, I miss. I mean, I'm a villain. And I shot it anyway because I'm young and I don't know no better. And damn it, we lost the game. Not saying that that's the play that lost it for us. But those are the situations in which, like, I trust experience more, Logan. Do you know what I mean? I trust dudes who know, hey, bro, this is a critic. possession just inherently because they've been in it over and over again. I'm not supposed to shoot this one.

Or let me put my head down and get that shit back, you know, to the other side of the floor and see if we can get it back to Janus or one of our better ones on the other side. Let's see if we get that a free throw line real quick and get an easy one. Slow this shit down. Like let's not let them fly back down the other way. Just little things. And again, they're fun.

They get it up and down. If they're shooting the ball well and you're not, they're going to be. you. But I just think in a playoff scenario with a good team, a talented team, even if Rick Carlisle is a slightly better coach, I'm taking the more experienced team with championship pedigree. Howard, what did Tyrese Halliburton do for himself over the weekend? And how many league executives are just falling at the mouth, just very excited about having a potential face of the franchise on the biggest day? in that way and having a team like the Indiana Pacers at least have some success or really good

success in this tournament. If we were like making a list of the great successes or the best things about what we just saw in the NBA tournament, like LeBron, we just covered at length. He's like top line. I think number two is probably the fact that Tyrese Halliburton and the Pacers got national TV exposure, right? Like we all knew Tyrese Halliburton was a budding star. and probably plenty of even casual fans might have known, but the Pacers have had almost no national TV. This has been written about Tyrese Halliburton, even in the off season,

I was talking about, like, I want to be on national TV. And I think they were scheduled for one T&T game before the season. And now they just got a couple of extra national spots last week because of this run. So, like, Halliburton has leveled up this season. It's made the Pacers that much more fun and exciting and competitive. And this tournament run got them on national TV. so that exposure is great.

And like, look, it's this like real struggle for the league constantly. Like they want stars in small markets because they need the small markets to thrive too. But then they don't promote them as much. They don't put them on national TV as much. And that's understandable too because, yeah, of course you're going to always lean into more Steph, more LeBron, more Kevin Durant on national TV. So like Tyrese Halberton basically just forced his way under the national stage in a big way. And he was awesome. Saturday night notwithstanding.

Obviously not his best showing. And he's such a great dude, right? Like his personality, you can just see, like, this guy must be great to play with great in the locker room. Just a really great demeanor. And yeah, like that's good for the league. Like the league as Steph and LeBron and KD are getting closer to aging out, yeah, they need guys like Tyrese Halliburton, Anthony Edwards,

and some of the younger generation to step into that void. And, yeah, Halberton's going to be a great face of the league eventually when the older guys do move on. So I love the fact that the Pacers had this moment. Again, it doesn't make them contenders in the spring. It's too soon for that. They haven't been in the playoffs in like four years. This group together never has. They've got massive defensive problems.

They're 28th in the NBA in defensive rating. Miles Turner's a really nice shot blocker, but not necessarily an overall, like, defensive anchor at center. and he just, you know, obviously got his ass hand. And he took care of that. So. Well, you know what? You know what's interesting about that? And I'm not, I still wouldn't project them to win a championship or be representing in the Eastern Conference finals.

But I could see a world and hopefully this is the case where Indiana themselves as a team, even though you're confident as hell and you're playing the way you're playing, they might even think they were playing with house money at this point and a year ahead of schedule. And you get to the finals of some. something like the cup. And maybe that clicks in with some of them. Hey, look, guys, we're closer than we thought we might be this year. Maybe it gives Rick Carlisle, you know, some ammunition to go in and be like, all right, guys, look, if you didn't think, if you didn't think I was on the money with this before, hear me now. Like, we're close. Yeah. Look, look what we just did with,

with very, with very little defense. Look what we just did. If we can just buy in fractionally more than we are and go from 28th to 15th or 18th, like, you know, we're closer and closer. Like maybe that's, maybe this is something that kind of kickstarts and gets them to understand that. I don't know. I'm just looking for a silver liner for them because they are exciting. And they're fun as shit to watch on the offensive side of the ball. I mean, that is, I enjoy watching them playing a way that, you know, I can't say for

every team in the league, right? But you just got to be better on that defensive end. And hopefully getting this close to something and then having it kind of taken out from under you early is what a young team could use to kind of lock in a little bit more on that end. Roger, if you, let's say you won the, I'm putting you on the Lakers right now. Say if you just won the in-season tournament. Are you excited about a banner going up? Are you excited about the ring ceremony?

How do you feel? What are your thoughts? I don't think I necessarily have a thought about any of that. I mean, if I was the same Rajah that played in the capacity that I played on every team in the league, I'd be more concerned with when is my 500K coming in. I'm going to need that. I ain't really worried about no banner. I need my money on time.

We need that check. Do we get the lump sum or are we parsing this out over a few checks? Like, let me get it. I need the bag. I have a compromise position here because I think we all agree, like raising a banner for this thing. It would be kind of, you can raise like a dish towel. How about that? Little dish towel that says the cup on it says...

Put something in the locker room. I was having that conversation, I think, with Jemmy, right? Specifically with the Lakers, right? If you put, like, one patch or whatever on wherever you put your banners and you just put the years you won the end-season tournament, I would... We were talking about maybe that. But also, like, even if you rack up hell of in-season tournament wins, right? for the Lakers and you don't have any like actual championships that's probably going to be more

annoying than anything right Howard I mean you've been in L.A. How would that how would that look? That would look real clipperish. I don't want to try to speak for the Lakers organization or Laker fans but having covered that organization, I cannot imagine anybody there thinks that this is something worth raising a banner for next to your 17 actual championship banners. You know what told me everything I needed to know about how they feel about the in season tournament. Jeannie Buss wasn't even there to accept the trophy. She put Joey there, who I had seen in years.

I'm not sure I'd ever heard Joey Buss speak on TV. He probably did for one of those championships or something. I don't know. I don't even know. But yeah. By the way, though, I love the fact that the trophy just went straight to the players. No disrespect to the people who have shelled out hundreds of millions and billions of dollars for these franchises. nobody wants to hear from the owner on the night of a championship.

You didn't win it. The players did. The whole thing, the whole convention of handing trophies to team owners and then eventually getting to the players who actually won the damn thing. It's just so obnoxious. And again, much respect to all those people, well, some of them more than others. But I get it. And that's part of the fun of being able to own a franchise is to have a moment like that. But it's not about you. It's not about you. You cut the checks. Cool. We want to hear from the players and the coach, but that's it. Yeah, I'm still checking my direct deposit, dog.

I'm going to need that 500K. I need that, bro. Listen, do you know how? Let's get it right. Man, when you're a minimum player and I know this, granted, before I say it, let me preface it by saying, I get that this is a like make-believe world. I don't live in that world any longer. So trust me, I understand when I'm going to say these numbers and how

crazy it sounds, but I'm going to say it anyway because this was my experience. When you are at the time, an NBA like minimum guy, it was like, I don't know, $400,000 or something like that when I play. It's like 1.1 for a one year guy now, but it was like 400K. Like for the dudes in that locker room that were with me at minimum level, when they would just come around with licensing checks, license and checks were like name image and likeness, like, you know, they use your name in a video game or they're selling, you know, we all, we all participate in that. Like, it's not like LeBron gets more from a licensing check because he sells more jerseys. Like, it's collective.

So we all participate. So they come around and they drop like two checks, I think it was a year for like 25K a check. It was, it was, it was pandemonium. What? For, for like, don't let me be on my 10 day. Like, you know, like, and, and, well, it's 10 day I wouldn't have got it, but I, it doesn't matter. But yes, so what I'm saying is, like, I know I'm talking about that 500K, but for a dude making what he's making, in a lot of instances, right,

that guy making 1.1, he's not sure whether this is a one year, like, live in a dream type of scenario for him. If he'll ever get a chance to do this again, it's not like he's penciling in making 1.1 for a career. Like, he's probably been in other leagues where he didn't make a lot, and, you know, he's just really excited to be there. So when he gets a chance to make 500K on top of that 1.1, oh, my God. And so I really, I'm telling you, like, I wouldn't be worried about no banners,

wouldn't be about no rings. I would literally be looking at that account like, yo, did it clear yet? I'm going to need to know. Did you shed thug tears all Saturday night just for that alone? Hey, well, I mean, I could put myself in those dude's shoes, man. Like, again. Because what LeBron said was real on that stage, bro. like, yo, he did it for the others.

Like, I just think he went five and a K-2. But it was for his little homies on the team. Storytime. I was with the Sixers, right? I'm with the Sixers. That year, I had been signed by San Antonio for a fully guaranteed contract. They did not keep me, right? So I was, I think it was like 375.

They kicked me back to the CBA where I wasn't good on the bread, right? You were good on the bread? Yeah, the money is. fully guaranteed. So they got to pay me, but they kept Derek dial. So that's the year I catch on with the Sixers. And at the time, I was kind of lightweight doubling up because you had, you know, what I was making from the Spurs, but the Sixers got to pay me to 10 days. So I, I hit two 10 days at the end of the season. Now we're in the playoffs. And in the playoffs, you're not getting paid. So I'm, I'm playing for free and practicing for free, so to speak. Like, do you know what I mean?

Not really, because I got my full year from San Antonio, but I don't know what this is worth to me, because in the playoffs, it goes off of a share. Right, right. Right? So like, playoff shares. So I'm saying this to say that as we got done,

and I didn't play a lot in those playoffs at all for the Sixers. Like people probably, I played in game seven and I played in the finals a bit. But the reality was I didn't play a lot in those in those playoffs. But man, when those dudes gave me a full share of the playoff bread for a number one seed in the Eastern Conference and a finals representative, Oh my God.

Like, it was I mean, it was just as cool as getting it was damn near as much as I made that whole entire year. So that that was crazy. So when LeBron says he's doing it for those dudes, like I do feel that. Because like, you know, Aaron McKee and Alan Ierson and DeKembe and whoever voted on whether they needed to give me a full share, again, I told you I was there for two 10 days before the playoffs started. They didn't have to give me a full share. I did feel that.

Hey man, you did it. You did it. That helped your career out. You was doing pretty good, right? Because you got the Spurs money, you got the playoffs here, and you got signed by the Sixers that summer too? Life was good. Oof. What's the most you ever made in a year, Raja?

Oh, man. Was it five? I don't know. Yeah. So you got like what was the mid-level back then or something? Yeah, a little less than that, I think Phoenix, yeah, it was around five. That deal I signed in Phoenix to leave Utah. were my best years.

That's the one that sets you up for, I don't want to say for life, but that's the one that like, that's your big fan. Like after all the minimum deals or whatever like that, that's the one that like said, all right, cool,

I'm good. Like if I, Miami's career only lasts another year or two, I'm good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've done well enough to figure something.

Yes, yeah, we're good. We're good. And then, and then, but that's, that's why quite frankly,

Howard, like when it was time to come back to Miami, I, you know, that, I still had a little bit of earning potential left. So I had to pick between two teams that were going to offer me a little bit more than the minimum because I had played for the minimum my whole career before basically Phoenix, you know.

So I couldn't chase the championship on the way out the way some guys get a chance to. Couldn't chase the champ. You had to chase a check and I respect. Chase that mortgage, bro. You have vibes. Let's take a quick break. And I want to talk about LeBron and Brani. And we are back.

Transitions are back. We are here, Raja. There wasn't any basketball professionally yesterday, but the biggest story in hoops was LeBron attending Brani's first game at USC. Now, a really good story. I'm really happy that Bronny's back on the floors. I'm sure everybody else on the panel is. But Howard, I want to start with you on this.

How was the league bracing for the power play that LeBron is about to use to get his son on the same team as him, even if it's for a game. And how is that ultimately going to work out in your eyes? Wow. That's a great question. I don't know the answer to that. I will just say that this is in my recollection, and I'm pretty sure I could just say this without that qualifier.

I don't think there's any precedent for this. There just isn't, right? Like you think about the all-time grates, especially the all-time of the all-time grates. Kareem, you know, whether it was Bill Russell, Michael, Kobe, Shaq, Tim Duncan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird. Like, we haven't had a second generation guy who was even on the radar really to say, oh, that guy's coming. Oh, no, by the way, dad wants to stick around long enough to play. Like, none of this has happened before.

And LeBron is like the one guy who not only has the ability because of just that the power. he holds, the influence he holds, to probably manipulate some things when the time comes, but also has the longevity to stick around long enough and has a son whose talent, as far as we can tell, is good enough. Now, I don't know. I'll leave it to the scouts and the draft experts to tell me where Brani eventually is going to chart out, because it's been all over the map the last couple of years as he's made his way toward college, right? First, it was, ah, he's a marginal second round pick or he may not even be drafted and now I see a little bit more

enthusiasm about his potential but like how good is he really? Do we know? And I didn't see the game yesterday and it's his first game playing since the heart thing. So like I wouldn't want to judge that anyway.

But when the day comes and it's coming soon, how far does LeBron go to try to manipulate things? There's only so much he can't do, but there's plenty of teams could do to try to curry favor if they think he's even available. So the idea that they're actually going to play together, I think still might be a little far-fetched unless it's the worst-case scenario on the talent side, which is if he's just not good enough,

like we've seen, there's plenty of examples of teams signing brothers and others, you know, friends or whatever. Hello, Milwaukee Bucks. But like, you know, the Knicks signing Chris Smith, J.R. Smith's brother. was a rather extreme example once upon a time. Would the Lakers just sign Brunny if he goes undrafted? Yeah, that seems like a given. But if it's anywhere else, I don't know what it means.

Roger, you are on the other side of this. You're back in the NBA and you're, you got Brony and LeBron on the schedule. You're in that game. How are you approaching that? Are you checking Brody full court? What are you doing? What's going on?

How are you going to play that? Am I checking Bronny? No, I mean, I don't know. First of all, I don't know. I don't think I would, I mean, I wouldn't be out there trying to prove a point against Bronny trying to hate on anybody or anything like that. I don't know. I know I could speak more maybe from a dad's perspective than an opponent just because, you know,

there have been a few times that I've gotten a chance to go out and hoop with my sons. This obviously not in an NBA setting. This is just like at the park or something like that. And there is not a cooler feeling in the world. I mean, I have pride dripping from my pores when I sit in the stands and watch them play. You know, like that's a pretty cool experience. But being able to share a field and a court with them, being out there doing it with them, you know, being able to assist them or something like, like there's nothing cooler than that.

So I don't know what kind of player he is. I haven't broken down his game and stuff like that. But as a dad, if I were LeBron, I'd do everything I could too. Like, shit. As much as I'd give him to this league, let's take it back full circle to the end season tournament. Like LeBron's collaboration with the league in that regard and just basically saying, yeah, I got you. I'll play as hard as I can. Like, I'm going to go after this in a way that shows everybody that this is a real thing.

Like, hey, by the way, don't forgive me on the expansion side. but hey, I'm working here. Like, y'all owe me this. Yeah, you're damn right. I'm calling in every favor. I'm leveraging every relationship to get Brony out there. If I have to, not saying that Brony ain't good enough to do it on his own. But if he has to, I'm good with that.

Have we ever seen anybody this powerful as a player, Howard? I don't think so. I don't, I mean, I'm like 12, so, you know, you've seen a lot more basketball than me. the obvious name that comes to mind is Michael Jordan, and Michael had his own sort of power at the time, but it's different because of the times that we're living in, right? Like, player empowerment hadn't happened yet, and part of that is because of LeBron, actually.

He created this. So stars have more juice now than they did anyway. And they also do partially because the league is just financially in such a different place, right? Jordan topped out at his last couple seasons making 33.5 million, which was, I think, more than the salary cap or around. Like, if that were the case now, LeBron James would be making, what, like 125 million for somebody to make the entire cap? Jordan basically made the entire cap. And could, and never went beyond that. Guys now, after, you know, their second contract, if you're a superstar, you've already now made, if not tens of millions, hundreds of millions.

and just the authority that even comes with that. LeBron James is talking about owning an expansion team at some point. By the way, great off the cuff by Adam. Although Adam probably had all the time in the world to workshop that one. He practiced that. He definitely practiced that for sure. He looked in the mirror and practiced that. Yeah, joking about that the MVP trophy or the trophy doesn't come with an expansion team.

Sorry, LeBron, that was good. Good job, Adam. That's pretty good. but LeBron's actually in a position to do that despite the fact that franchises are now worth a minimum of a billion each because LeBron has made a shit ton of money both on and off the court. That, you know, all the power that accrues to him, part of its financial, part of his status within the game, everything he's accomplished, everything that he means to the league. All of that said, Logan, to back to your question, like, I don't, I don't know that that means, unless, again, if he's, if the LeBron is still a Laker and Brani is on. the board at a moment when the Lakers wouldn't be passing up some outstanding talent who's miles better than him, they could just take him to do right by LeBron. If he doesn't get drafted,

they could sign him to a pre-agent contract, just to do right by LeBron. But if, but if, any other team, whatever LeBron's power and authority and importance is, I don't know that any other team has some obligation or some need to sign Brani, unless they somehow think that is a way to curry favor with LeBron because they think they might get them in free agency. And even then, per usual, we'd be talking about a handful of teams at most. I don't think that, I don't think that, I don't think that it's going to get to that point. I think what's going to happen is the Lakers are going to sign Bronte into like a two-way or a G-League deal of some sort next season or whenever he comes out. He'll play a couple few games.

But at the end of the day, the Lakers want to win, right? especially the Laker team with LeBron, they want to win a title. Now, that's a good storyline for the first, like, couple games, but, I mean, it's one thing playing with your son on the park, but it's another thing when your son, if or when your son is fucking up.

But we have 15-man rosters. You could spend a spot. Like, Thanasis out of the cunho, with all due respect, is on the Bucks roster because of Janus. And if he weren't, he probably, I don't know that he'd even be on any NBA roster. You can, you can burn one, you know,

once upon it would in rajah's day like there was a 12 man roster and there was an injured list initially and a guy you had to manufacture an injury if a guy didn't have one to put him on the injured list just so you wouldn't have to cut him and then 12 became 13 and 13 is now 15 you can you can you can spend a spot yeah um what is that before we get out of here and you brought up one of those points and adam silver made a joke about it what would a what would a lebron james ownership do for the league How would you, how would that be for, I mean, it seems like, I mean, LeBron is very thirsty to be on whatever ownership group that owns this team. He has outwardly set it, also indirectly set it, leaked stuff to woads, right? Like, there's, there's so many things going on here. What would that do for a league for a guy like LeBron Roger to own a franchise in Vegas as it's growing? do for the league? Ultimately, you know, you've, you've gone from being, you know, the, like, labor, right? It just gives, it gives, like, there are levels to this shit, right? This is,

their levels to everything. This is life. Like, we, while LeBron and every NBA player that's come through here that's made generational wealth hooping, um, aside from MJ has, has, has, has, like, you know, succeeded in life for sure. Like there have been very few that have an opportunity to be at the ownership table. You know, that's a club that boys weren't let into a lot. And MJ got to sit at it. But man, if LeBron could get there in a way and carry the torch that kind of MJ lit a little bit and be successful at it, it just changes the game, Logan.

Like, and it's a really deep conversation. I don't know that we have enough time on the pod to get into it, but just, you know, from a power structure and from where, you know, we've come from as young black men to have an opportunity to perfect the craft and become a businessman in the process, having not going to college and figured it out and done it with your friends in a way that all of you guys are intelligent and thoughtful and philanthropic and successful at these endeavors and have that, have that kind of, translate and manifest itself into you being an owner in this league, I think it would be super dope. And it would be a super, you know, a great example for a bunch of young people, black, white, doesn't matter, any color, a bunch of young people from any, you know, race or religion of what's possible, you know, like you can come up through it. You can work your way to it. You can learn. You can, you can, you know, strategize and, and move in ways that get you close to.

to your goal. And if you do that and you're committed to him, you can achieve whatever you want to achieve. And he wanted to own a franchise. And then he did. And so I think it would be super cool. That'll be amazing. What would that do to your eyes? I'll pose a question to you, Howard. What would that do for like just the league? And also just, I mean, I got to say just even going to Vegas during this time, I definitely was impressed by what Vegas can be as a basketball sports town. right? Like it would be interesting to see on a day-to-day basis, but like you have examples like the writers and the aces. You know, sports gambling is as big as it's ever been. There's money there. They're definitely invested in sports. What would, how would a team be in Vegas in your eyes? What would you? What would you, what would you?

Clairvorant Howard? How would you see it? The funny thing is like that's, as you know, that's always been Laker territory, right? Right. It was Laker, which is another reason why this in-season tournament was so great as the final. It was so many Laker fans there. Yeah, because you didn't have to worry about, oh, it's a neutral site game. Is the energy going to be there? By the way, we didn't cover this. Logan, were you there for the two semifinal games, including the 2 o'clock Pacific Time Start? Because on TV, that one sounded dead.

Oh, it was the first semifinals game was dead. There were a plethora of empty seats, especially at the top. So yeah, the 2 o'clock game was dead, but the Laker game that night was, it was popping. Right. So the stage lighting obscured the fact that all these seats were empty. So I couldn't see at home how many seats were empty.

But you could just tell, like it felt like watching like a bubble game or an All-Star game or something. Like it was just the energy level was just not there. And it was an absolute massive difference for the night game. But again, in part because Vegas has always been Laker territory, ton of Laker fans. You didn't have to worry about it being a neutral site game. Again, I don't know what that would have sounded like if the Lakers aren't there.

Vegas is obviously primed as an expansion city. We can get into expansion on all the pros and cons some other time. But like Vegas is primed. Obviously, as a sports town, it has grown immensely the last several years with the teams they've already got. The teams that are now coming, looks like the A's will be there before too long. And maybe. Yuck. I know.

I know. I'm no happier about it than you are. But it's definitely a thriving young sports town, right? Like, it's, they've made their mark. They've established their place. I think the NBA would absolutely thrive there. It's been the NBA's unofficial home for, you know, over 10 years. Like, ever since Summer League became a thing.

And then that, you know, Summer League turned, you know, that sprouted. Then they were doing the G League Showcase. And the G League Showcase is in Orlando. this year. But the G League Showcase was in Vegas for several years. USA basketball puts, you know, training camps there. Like everything, like the NBA has all these other tentacles that lead back to Vegas. So it's already been kind of their unofficial second home anyway. So like it's not even that big of a leap now to imagine what the NBA would look like there.

It'll obviously, it's an obvious success. It absolutely will be. Not my personal favorite place on the map? No, that's neither here nor there. Nor Raja's, I don't think. Nor mine. I'm not going back. I'm not going back.

I don't fucking go it. It was such a, it was such a touching thing to see the photo of you guys finally united in Vegas meeting for the first time. I still can't believe that's the case. It was great. Yeah, he's shorter than I thought. Yeah, also shorter but also taller than you thought because I heard

Rosa was like, you are tall. You're fucking tall. But, yeah. It was fun. It was nice. Mama Fouca was, that was good time. too. Mama Fuku was good. Raja. It was really good times.

I realized that I found out that Raja is a vegetarian and it was, you know, it was just interesting. He would just like move the steak. Give me the Brussels sprouts. Pass the cauliflower, please. We taught Steve Nash everything he knows about his diet, by the way. That's what I found out, Howard.

Yeah, I did not say that. But yeah. We clearly have nothing else to talk about. So that's been another addition. Wait, the all tournament team just got announced. to hear the all tournament team? Let's hear the all tournament team. Let's do it. Breaking news here on the real one spot.

Breaking news at 104 Eastern as we tape from NBA PR. The all tournament team for the inaugural NBA in hyphen season tournament. Janice Andacumbo. Anthony Davis. Kevin Durant, Tyrese Halliburton, LeBron, James. That sounds about right. I'll take it. I have a suggestion.

Stop calling the end season tournament. We know what it is now. Call it the NBA Cup. All right. This is, Jesus. Please. God. Why would you have a hyphen in your, never mind, all these things.

No hyphenated names for things. Jeez. All right. That's been another edition from the Comudgeon pod, the Comudgeon 3. We'll see you guys on Thursday. I don't have anything else to say. Bye. Must be 21 years and older and president's select states.

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