The Ringer NBA Show - WCF Game 4 Instant Classic, Joel Embiid in the Bahamas, and Conference Finals Predictions (Ep. 274)

Episode Date: May 23, 2018

The Ringer’s Juliet Litman, Chris Ryan, Justin Verrier, and Danny Chau discuss the Houston Rockets bouncing back against the Golden State Warriors (01:00) and make their predictions for the rest of the conference finals (27:45). Then they break down the recent free agency news surrounding DeMarcus Cousins (30:15), Karl-Anthony Towns (33:45), and Joel Embiid (40:55). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Juliet Litman. I'm Chris Ryan. Oh, I'm Danny Chow. I'm Justin Barrier. We're not doing sources to say because it's the Western Conference Finals. Actually, it's all the conference finals. In game four, just happened in Oakland.

It was a weird one. It was basically like two different games that was alternating on and off between different quarters or something. We're going to break it down. And let's begin with the final sequence of the fourth quarter. The game ended 95-92. I just want to note for the record, I predicted 105-102, so I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good about myself right now. Probably better than the Warriors are feeling.

I also bet anyone who would take it that $100 that the Warriors would win tonight. Nobody took me up on it. Not a gambling man. We fucked up. Me neither. I don't gamble. What's the point? Sorry to the new laws.

Let's talk about the end of the game. So the Warriors are down three. They get a rebound. Kevin Durant brings the ball up. He passes to Clay. He gets trapped in the corner. And the Warriors have a timeout. But Steve Kerr does not call one and they force a bad shot.

And then we think the game is over. It's not because Sean Livingston has fouled. PJ Tucker. He has a nice little hand around his waist. It was a nice little touch foul. It was Chris Paul. because he took the shots at the end that you have two free throws.

It was Chris Paul. He goes one for two and then they do call a timeout or down three and Seth Curry gets a great look and he misses and that's the end of the game. So first question, should Steve Kerr have called the timeout

when they got the rebound at the end when they were down to 94-92? Probably, I think it's very much against the Warriors' DNA to take a timeout in that scenario. We've talked a lot about this season how they play so free

and like flowing and everything is everything good and bad kind of really stems from that and that's probably why if Kerr is going to have to answer this is what he's going to say but at the same time you do have some of the best offensive players in the NBA maybe draw something up especially when Clay was like clearly trapped for multiple seconds there yeah I I wouldn't have called the time out KD had the ball in his hands he should have just taken the shot yeah they're like in transition those guys are all a bunch of John Wicks so like why call a time out and stop the momentum I don't think he thought Kevin Durant was going to give it up. Why did Kevin Durant give it up?

I don't have to ask Kevin Durant. I'm sure he'll give a really thoughtful, sensitive answer that respects the media. Very weird Kevin Durant game tonight. Was probably his worst of the series, which is notable. It's still hindered with 27 points, but it felt like he worked for every single one of them. How many shots? Nine for 24. And I felt like the nine were like really, really tough mid-range shots, all of which elicited

incredible reactions from us when we were watching. In some ways, there was that one fading out-of-bounds baseline shot he took that was just like about as hard as any dunk I've ever seen pulled off. And it also felt like half of them were just shooting directly on top of Chris Paul's head. Yes. Like he rose to the height of Chris Paul on each of his jump shots. A lot of abuse of small people over the past few days. I don't stand for that here.

I don't either. Do you see him with Terry? Absolutely. Wherever you are, Scary Terry. Justin Barry stands with you. What was the biggest difference for the Rockets tonight? versus game three. Aggression.

I thought that they withstood what was, I thought like a very, very terrifying opening few minutes where they didn't score for five minutes. Yes, it was 12-0 with like six or four minutes gone by. And it felt like they really stuck,

you know, 42 minutes for Paul, 43 minutes for Hardin, 44 for PJ Tucker, they decided to play basically six guys. Gerald Green gave 12 minutes here to like spell some people. Crucial 12 minutes in the second half.

For sure. And when he was in there, it was indicative of how they play it tonight, which is very handy, lane jumping, very aggressive guarding. We were noting, like, Capella's guarding people on switches out at the half-court mark, and the Warriors just weren't able to go over the top

and exploit any of the space that was left behind them. So I just, I'm honestly, as the probably, like, signature Rockets hater of Ringer Podcast Network, I'm super impressed by the Rockets. I mean, absolutely, because the Warriors had amazing runs in the first and the third, and then they came back in the second and the fourth, and then ultimately won the game.

what is it about the Warriors that they just basically take off quarters like it's kind of like LeBron Or take off games after wins Yeah take off games after wins I mean as Chris was saying It was kind of the game seven for the Rockets They played pretty much six guys

And to a certain extent seven Because Gerald Green got a few minutes in there A shout out Gerald Green by the way A game high plus 14 in the game And the Warriors didn't have Iguado which seemed to screw up the rotations To a certain degree Jordan Bell was in there A little bit more than usual

You saw Quinn Cook for two minutes there At one point there was a Warriors lineup in the second quarter of Kevin Durant, Swaggy P, Jordan Bell, Kivan Loonie, and Sean Lixon. And this is kind of what the Warriors do, right? They still weave in some of these unproven young guys into what they do with just a Kevin Durant or Steph Curry on the floor all the time. They just hope that that's enough to kind of power them through that. The difference here was the Rockets played their best guys pretty much every time on the court. and Chris Paul actually played like one of the best guys in the floor for once. Yeah, that was one of the biggest difference.

Chris Ball actually had a good game. And he should. He should because there's an argument to be made, and people have been talking about this for a couple of days, that a loss tonight would have ended the Chris Paul era in Houston. An era, I don't know if you can call one season an era, but that they would have to give serious thought to whether or not you're going to assign a guy at that age,

that injury history, who has had some problems in the postseason to come back and pay him past his prime. I'm just not here for this Chris Paul It's not slander I'm just like look at Darrell Mori man I mean like you think he's really going to pony up 35 or whatever much Chris Paul's do Well didn't it still probably shouldn't

I don't know Chris Paul still was one of the best players in the NBA When he was healthy this season And I think if maybe not full max But I think you get somewhere close to that Because when he is playing And if it's only for 50 games Let's say you're getting one of the best players in the NBA still

It just get look as the resident Dan Tony just, you know, disciple here? Mythologer. I have way too many nightmares about what happened with Steve Nash to contemplate giving Chris Paul another four years of, you know, huge money. Right, and he's older and smaller point guards, as you're alluding to,

definitely don't age as well. But look at what he was able to do tonight. He didn't have a particularly good offensive game, 27 points, shot 50% from 3, but what he was doing, just moving the ball, just making things happen. It had a dramatic impact on the whole game. And also compensating for Hardin, who again was kind of off.

Right. Didn't have a great game. What is with Hardin? It feels like every point he scores takes him at least 20 seconds. Yeah. I'm sorry. I believe in Chris's, like, passion against him. No, I totally get it.

It's the way he's kind of built to play the game. He's very methodical. He's basically timing your timing. Yeah. And he's using your timing against you. That's how he plays. place. And it's, it can be beautiful and it can be completely frustrating. Today, today it was great because it was a clash of styles that were actually complimentary. I thought the warriors at their best in that

second quarter run were doing the downhill running. We're doing the, the, the stretching the floor beyond the three point line shooting. But the rockets were able to chip and chip and chip and chip and then soak up clock and kind of make the warriors work for 23, 22 seconds per possession. And honestly, like, I don't really love speculating about rest or exhaustion any more than I like talking about refereeing. But you could see that Draymond had a little less lift at the end. Yeah, I think there's like a couple. We should go over like kind of a couple of pivotal moments.

Like how worried should you be based on what you saw? Like starting at the first quarter, how worried are you about Clay Thompson? He heard his, he had like a crash. I was more worried for you. I was really worried. I had a pit in my stomach. Didn't want to watch his Warriors team without Clay. Also, he is, I mean, Steph is their most important player.

But he is way more important than Iguada. He's way more essential to what they do than, I mean, you know, behind Durant. I don't know. Him and Draymond are both really important. I think because we haven't had a Clay blackout game. That's where the worry creeps in. Game one was probably the closest. Yeah, but like there was not a point in this game even when before the injury where you were

really concerned about Clay absolutely losing it and burying three-threes in a row and putting the game out of reach. And this is interesting because both of these teams kind of thrive on putting their foot on people's necks and kind of putting these games out of reach for the other. So it was really kind of interesting to see them, not to tighten up, but be in the unfamiliar territory of having a game that was swinging back and forth between three-point leads back and forth.

I think they see, it was more than that, though. The Warriors were down seven at the half. I think that was the Rockets' biggest lead. They were up 15, I think, at some point, then down seven at the half. Yeah, and so it was not just like, it wasn't necessarily a close game, but it was like a game of runs,

which is, like, you know, the most classic basketball, I guess. But it was weird to see them tired, like midway through the fourth. I think that's sooner than you're used to seeing either of these teams play because they both blow teams out so much. And I think that's just kind of how you have to approach every single game with Golden State. The entire objective of the defense is to kind of chip away at that margin of error that they have. And when you have, you know, Iguid all out, you have Clay Thompson a little bit compromised. You can kind of hunt Curry down because he has these three fouls.

that gives you the kind of leeway that allows Harden to have an explosive first half, or an explosive second quarter that allows Chris Paul to come in and become a hero in the second half. And within that, you get, you know, little bit of contributions from Gordon,

oriza, PJ Tucker had a huge rebounding performance. That's where it comes from. 16 boards for Tucker, 13 for Capella, yeah. Tucker's new Draymond, essentially. I mean, you kind of alluded to it, Danny. It's just the margins are a little bit smaller nowadays, only because, yes, they do have those three transformative offensive players,

but throughout the season we talked about Andrea Godolo, just not being there as an offensive option, and he's been pretty consistent offensively throughout these playoffs. But now you have guys like Draymond in there. He was over two from three. Looney isn't much of a factor on the offensive end, and you get deep into the bench. It's really just hoping Nick Young shoots well from three,

and he didn't do that tonight. And so you're really just relying on Katie and Steph, and you become a little bit more predictable, and the Rockets were able to sniff them out. This is one of those games where you look at their, you look at the Warrior's step chart, and you're like, why the hell do they have four bigs that they never use?

Yeah, seriously. Why didn't they get rid of one of those guys and kept Omory Caspi? You know, this is a game where as bad as Patrick McCaw was this season, you could have, you know, used him in that Nick Young role as a defensive guy. Isn't he still hurt, though? Yeah, exactly, exactly.

So he's out. They miss him. Yeah. The four guys they didn't use on their bench today, all centers. The performance art signings that they have done, the Javails, the Youngs, keeping David West around, I assume, for locker room stability. He played a little bit, but is obviously out of the rotation. He was much better.

Zaza's out of the rotation. That's a lot of dead weight to be carrying. I know that it's not like Dan Tony played that many more people, but I feel like probably could have gotten a little bit from, like, a couple of minutes of Ryan Anderson, or if Luke had to play, and they just said don't lift your arms above your head like he would be fine. Just stand there.

How big is Iguidalis? So are we seeing the Ibridal a factor as a three point margin? It just really shows that the warriors aren't necessarily as deep as we kind of say they are. They're very top-heavy. Have people been saying that though?

I think that's been a narrative this season though the warriors are not as deep. Like this team is not as deep as the previous ones, basically. One thing I would want to go back and check is how much Iguidala defended Paul in the first game. Or at the very least, was able to switch on to him,

was able to fluster him because he did seem like he was able to get to his spots a little bit easier. And as we said before, like the, when he's able to orchestrate and Hardin's able to play off of that,

they're just a completely different team. I would all has that low stance where he's like, shoot his arms out, you know? That also really gets the way with what Chris Paul does. We saw tonight with some of his amazing passes. Like the one on the baseline was incredible.

But he has a way of guarding where he can go big or small and just take up all the space that they miss when he's not on the, court. I also think that Draymond Miss Dunk just really like that one's interesting. Illustrative of like

how exhausted that team must have been. Yeah, that and also there's a lot of shorted threes from Clay and staff as well that I think just spoke to their level of exhaustion. It is weird to see them as tired. I can't really remember a warrior's team like seeming fatigue before the finals.

I think that you could make one argument that A younger legs and B like back a couple of seasons ago they were more regularly beating teams by 25, 30 points. and not playing fourth quarters and maybe had a little bit more gas in the tank. I have no numbers to back that up. But I think one thing that's happening here is,

and I just don't know how to get to the bottom of this, but they're not playing good twice in a row. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, they obviously have moved through the first round, the first round of the playoffs pretty easily, but I feel like they are kind of coming up short after wins. They kind of think they've fixed it, they've got it all figured out.

There was nothing about to, night, though, that I felt like was anything close to sort of, like, not there mentally, not focused. They seemed focused. They just seemed completely stymied by the Rockets' defense. I think they also just had a couple of really bad turnovers in the fourth. Like, Clay had that couple

really stupid ones. Like, did he also get a concussion when he heard his knee or something? Not a joke about concussion. Sorry. Never. Tell the truth. That's a concussion joke. Graywell-Smith impression. What would be seeing you at the world

cup as well to help them sing. Probably because I'll be fired from the ringer for making fun of concussions. The Warriors, like, I find this kind of annoying about the Warriors narrative, but how they always point to, like, how many passes, how many assists and how many passes they have. But it is true. They were playing a lot more, like, off the dribble and isolation tonight than previously. I guess it comes down to how much faith do you have in the Warriors and their ability to see the big picture.

Because we said this all throughout the season that while we could have hit the panic button a few times that they were so good and they've shown so much over the course of the past couple of years that you didn't really have to worry. And now you're looking at the box core and you're saying, well, they didn't play particularly well, but they did get a lot of guys involved, whereas the rockets, as we mentioned, only using six or seven guys. I'm wondering if maybe they lost this game by a little bit, but they make it up in game five, in game seven and game seven. Right. Just because the rockets are taxed? Right. Just because the rockets are playing game seven every game now, whereas the words can kind of stretch it out there. I don't

know. And it definitely looks like. like that with the lineups that Kerr's been putting out there. He's really throwing lineups he's never played in the regular season, pretty much putting, you know, four non-factors on offense around Durant and just kind of like letting it stop the bleeding for a lot. Letting it go for about two minutes. Yeah. Like, why not?

Maybe this is what the Rockets have been playing for all season long. I mean, this is it. They're going to get the game seven in Houston on Monday night, probably. You know, they'll probably split the next two and they'll get this game seven that they won all these regular season games for and they kept the foot on the gas throughout the end of the season as other teams were like, well, we'll just wait

until the postseason and worry about it then. They get this game in Houston. And I kind of am, that's going to be one of the most anticipated games in the last three or four years in the NBA. Dan Tony has to get it. Yeah. He has to get it. You're giggly.

I'm, yeah, I'm creating a year right now. It's just one day Dan Tony's methodology of of putting seven guys on the court, and that's it, is going to work. Depth is one day...

Depth is a lie. Depth is a lie. Depth is for the regular season. It's for all seasons. I'm ready. Let's go. I feel like there's going to be a game where someone from the depths of the Rockets Bench

just like comes through and wins it for them. I so Joe. I'm waiting for the Joe Johnson game. The rising of Joe Jesus? It would be perfect, like, circle for the sons and Danny in particular for Joe Johnson comeback. game. If Joe Johnson didn't break his orbital bone in 0405

Oh my God. Oh my God. Okay, so he was a backup point guard then. He's a backup power guard now. Antonio Storytime with Danny Chow. No, but there are a lot of guys there. I mean, they have Nenei. They have guys that could do things. So if this does, I'm almost like This is absurd. He's not playing Nenei.

Like that's completely ridiculous. And also, this series hinges on Kevin Durant. I mean, that's ultimately the bottom line, right? Because like if Curry does the first and the third, third, Duran has to take the second and the fourth, particularly the fourth. And he just had a horrible fourth quarter, like a bunch of really bad shots. The ones we're used to seeing him make. Like, I love to dream this dream with you about ISO Joe coming off the bench for one beautiful quarter.

But if Kevin Durant makes like three of those shots, like it's kind of, I think the question is, how likely is it that Kevin Durant will have an off night for the next two out of three games? Right. The Warriors lost by three. It's not like they lost by 12. And they usually won't have 16 turnovers, right? I mean, I hope so. How many assists do they have? 14.

14 assists isn't enough for them to win, right? They like to get like a minimum of 20. Jonathan Charks wrote for Tuesday about this basic math problem that the Rockets face every night. They know they can depend on Hardin and Paul for at least 50, 60 points. Where is the other offense going to come from?

Because you need to have at least one more person to make up the point differential for what the four or five guys who can potentially put that up for the Warriors. Right. And Gordon has been that key guy that Charks has been talking about for weeks now. And he was awful at times. There were just times where I had no idea

if he was spasming out of control or trying to get to the basket or what he was doing. He hit enough from the perimeter and got enough shots at the basket to make it worth it. But I do wonder if you do get some more from those ancillary guys and the Warriors, it almost cancels out that. And all of a sudden,

we're looking at another blog. It's so interesting to watch the tenets of certain organizational philosophies, whether you want to call it Mori Ball, or even some of the ball movement post-spur stuff that the warriors like to run that's also in itself borrowed from older Dan Tony teams. Watch that stuff crumble in the playoffs a little bit. Like the rockets were kind of hunting for Open Man three-pointers, but at the same time we're like, but we have these driving lanes,

should we just take them? And the warriors were really forced into, you know, I want to see the shots here, I'm looking at their shot chart right now. That's a fair amount of mid-range. There's quite a few. And I think the rockets are kind of like, we're going to guard you way out, and we're going to guard you down low.

And you can do as much turnaround fade-away jumpers as you want, and we'll take our chances. And you know what? Clay didn't hit those tonight. And Kevin hit a couple for the highlight reel, but probably missed a few as well. So I think it's really fascinating to take away what the teams want to do. And tonight the Rockets got more of what they wanted to do.

Absolutely. We'll talk more about them and the Warriors, too. We haven't even talked about James Hardin. But first, let me tell you about ADT. Is your home an ADT home? Get ADT and help protect against break-ins, fire, and carbon monoxide. For a limited time, get ADT's lowest rate starting at just 28-99 a month from the most trusted name in home security.

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That's ADT. tested, it's trusted, it's proven. With 36-month monitoring contract, early termination and installation fees apply, excludes taxes and fees, applies traditional services only, certain markets excluded, licenses available at ADT.com. And now, back to the show. Okay, let's talk a little more about James Hardin. What's going on with him? Weird night tonight from Hardin. He had like a couple of nice shots, but in general, a quiet night for him. It was really the Chris Paul game. Is he like a part of the Warriors problem of not playing two games? in a row in the playoffs.

What is his deal? It's a very open-ended question. I don't know. I keep falling back to the defensive plays that he made in the second quarter. I was just like, this is so uncharacteristic of him.

And yet, you look at him and you're like, this guy should be a fairly good defensive player. He's 6-5, 6-10 wing-span, strong body, you know, it's sometimes all about focus. And there were a few plays where he was on step where he was just completely locked in. And when you see that, you're just like, okay, I get it.

I get why this guy is an MVP candidate. I get all of it. But it just never sticks around for longer than, you know, a three, four minutes stretch. He was a, he was oddly passive early on, at least comparatively to his first couple of games against the Warriors. And I almost wonder if he got burnt too early in that second game and decided to maybe like recalibrate when he's like distributing his effort, almost like Chris Paul has been known to do. classic the Jordan six points a quarter and then ramp it up in the fourth thing. Right, because he took six shots,

which seems low for him in the first quarter, and I almost felt like he was picking his spots, and it actually ended up working in the end because he seemed like he had an extra burst. Like you mentioned, Danny, he was getting his hands all over the ball as the game kind of went along. Yeah, I think that he and Paul are so interesting to me because they're playing with such a heavy narrative weight on them,

whether or not they would want to acknowledge that or not. But certainly is for us as soon as they started with seven-nothing. We were like, this is a rap, chokers, other things, like having to do with razors. Thanks for bringing this up. The most inexplicable moment, way more than Steve Carter, not calling a timeout or whatever, was hardened passing up a completely wide open three in the open court in the first quarter. That was really, really weird and just speaks to, I don't even know what it speaks to because he's not an alpha.

Like he is an aggressive, dominant player, but that was the most powerful. any player has been in this series. It was so, so strange, and that kind of, like, flip-flopping that he does. So if Steph passes that shot up or Steph misses a couple of threes, it's his knee, or he's going to shoot himself into it. But with Paul and Hardin, they're just going to have to play until they beat the Warriors or whoever. They're going to have to play with the whispers in the background about, like, not being able to come up in a big game.

And they were huge tonight. Seriously. What do you think was the turning point of the game, if you could name one? Well, I mean, I think they were already back in it by them, but Hardin's dunk, Hardin's facial on Dremont was a real, like, Green is kind of the sheriff of that building, and he's such the emotional engine of that team, and he feeds off the Oracle, and the Oracle feeds off him. That was a little bit of a slaying the Dragon moment, I think, not to put too final point on it, but I thought that, I thought it was like a real, like, we're not going to be just, you're not going to beat us by 30, and we're going to go home and try to win this in Houston moment. Right. The title wave from the Warriors is always going to come. come. And it usually comes in that third quarter. And I thought them being able to withstand and punch

back is always going to be the crucial part of the game. And they did it better than they had, perhaps, this entire series. I just look at what they've been able to do there. And we talk about like narrative weight and whatnot. I mean, I think that was a good sign just going forward that they weren't able to just like kind of get taken out of it because they had it earlier in the series. I would say, and this is a completely Danny Chow answer. But this is a completely Danny Chow answer. But There were a couple rebounds that PJ Tucker had where I was just like, okay, the Rockets absolutely want this. Yeah. Yeah.

Out rebounding like two or three warriors who were standing and looking at a cram off the rim. I think also Curry taking Curry out in the second when they were up 38, 36, and because Curry had three. Yeah. That probably also, I think, if you go into the halftime with less than seven, I think it's just you come out of it slightly differently as well. In that final five minutes of the second quarter, the Rockets went on a seven. 17 and 8 run with Curry out. Looney getting 5 too. Definitely did not help. He was making a difference.

He looks a little shaken up too after he did the hip plant. He got kind of like flipped over a little bit. So that'll be a huge, huge, huge thing to watch for. Iguodala health, Clay Thompson health, Tristan Thompson health. I hate Tristan Thompson. I'm always checking in on that. And Kvonne Looney. My least favorite narrative

I do not want the Rockwood to go to the finals. My least favorite narrative of the postseason is the Tristan Thompson revival. I just, like, I can't. I just can't get down with it. It's very rough. Let's talk about Boston and Cleveland in a second, looking ahead. But first, if it would all still out for game five,

do you stick with Looney if you're Steve Kerr, or do you try Jordan Bell? Do you check? I thought the Looney lineup looked great in the first quarter. Yeah. I really enjoy watching Jordan Bell. It's a very tough assignment for him to be guarding James Harden. So much swag. All the way out, like 25 feet out.

Looney does a pretty good job. He's pretty, he shuffles with him pretty well. As well as you can expect someone who has been in the league as long as he has, which is not very long and so much bigger. I would personally just would rather not lose a series because I played Nick Young too much. Sure. And for as much as I think he's amusing, minus 14 tonight,

one for three, 0 for two from behind the arc, didn't really look any more focused than he ever looks while playing and just seemed like a... He got burned pretty bad. What are you doing here, man? What about Livingston? small. I'd be okay with that.

I don't think there's any real huge adjustment that they need to make. Kevin Durant needs to make more than nine shots. Yeah. And probably take that last one. Maybe just go to him

in isolation more often than they even have been. I mean, it seems like they still want to try to fit Kevin Durant into what they do, as Danny wrote this morning. But at a certain point, just let them lose. Just say go win us a game. Sure.

Let's do some predictions. and then we're going to talk about DeMarcus cousins as well. First, Western Conference Finals, Justin, what is your prediction for this best of three that we have coming? I flip-flopped a lot this series, mostly because the Warriors just have a way

of just stamping out the life in certain fandom. But I think Warriors in Seven. I still can't go against what they have. Danny? Warriors and Six. Ooh. Tough. Interesting, Chris.

Sorry, Tony. I'm going to go Rockets. and seven. I've thought this since like February, basically. I'm going to stick with it. That doesn't feel good, does it? No, it's horrible. I don't want it to be true, but you know, this is what I feel inside of my soul. Tomorrow, probably tonight

you're listening to this podcast. Game 5 in Boston. Let's make some predictions there, Justin. I don't know what to think about this series anymore. I think that the Celtics will have a significant advantage because they're back at home, and it seems like these teams only play well at home. But it seems like the

The cabs have found something over the past two games they just didn't have over the first two, which in large part is taking advantage of the smallest guy over the court and just shooting over him anytime possible. I think the Celtics will win one of the next two games if this goes six, but I think ultimately the Cavs will win two of the three. Danny? You said it all, I guess. Caves and seven. The LeBron game, you know, we have a Tom, Kame. who works with us is from Boston,

and he was like sort of shaking, talking about LeBron coming back to Boston and LeBron victories pass there. That's going to happen. I just don't know if the Cavs have any consistent help for him. Like, you just let LeBron have 52. I just don't even know whether, I honestly just don't know if they have enough to win on the road.

LeBron's averaging a triple double for the playoffs. Sure. It's crazy. That's so insane. He's 33. I guess the counter is like, do the Celtics have enough? consistent offense to make that matter. At home they do, I think.

Yeah, that's what I'm... Again, two games at home. I mean, this is... We're gonna have... We could possibly have a Boston-Huston finals that's determined by home court advantage in the conference finals. And it's a really good case...

I'm good with that. And it's a really good case for playing through the end of the regular season. That would in some ways be... I mean, I'm sure the league is not rooting for Boston, Houston. But in some ways, it would be nice for messaging the importance of the regular season.

Sure. I suppose. Yeah. I suppose. Let's talk about a little free agency and forecasting for the future. A lot going out into Marcus Cousins. And, like, not in a good way. Yeah.

He's wearing sweatsuits and, like, working out. So does it hurt or help his stock that his off-season home is in Las Vegas? I don't think it could help. I mean, it's the home of USA Basketball. Counterpoint. It's the home of Stanley Cup finalists, the Las Vegas Golden Knights. It's a new sports. It's mecca.

There's lots of things going on in Vegas besides debauchery. From what I've heard from my colleague, Kevin Clark, it's a lovely place to live. Is it? Also, let me just say this. As someone who is, we're all working lots of hours through these playoffs, I feel myself I'm letting myself go. So I can only imagine how I would feel if I had a torn Achilles and I wasn't able to get any exercise.

So I think like the like, oh, DeMarcus is like letting himself. What do you guys want him to do? Like stair masters? He was doing Pilates. Is that what you said? Yeah. Get in the cold tub. They're getting in there like Matt Biondi, just do some butterfly?

Can't you do like the water running thing? Yeah. Water size. Yeah. No, not treading. Like it's like. Aquasize. Yeah.

Aquasize. He didn't go to Coachella. He's just hanging out and he's just trying to get back on the right path. Is that shots at people who did go to Coachella? I'm not a big Coachella person. But I mean like NBA players went to Coachella. Did they? Oh, yes.

You didn't see like Cornelie Lee's plane picks? No. I feel like they do a good job of hiding this sort of stuff. Or maybe I'm not looking at. They don't do a good job of hiding it. Well, speaking of which... It took me like five seconds when I heard about Nick Stouk's having a girlfriend in law school in a fire. Well, I mean, Cousins in particular hasn't done a good job of hiding his emotions on the gram.

Thank you for bringing that up. He keeps liking all these comments about like, you better just get paid. And I don't know. I don't think that's a good strategy. Let's take, can we take all the guys who people are treating their contract status is toxic and give them, put them on Seattle? so can we do Boogie, Blake, Chris Paul, and even Westbrook, and put them all, like, Seattle can only have, like,

these five guys and then, like, a bunch of D-Leaguers, but, like, they have to pay the $250 million salary hit. Like an aisle of dogs for a ranted contracts? Yeah, if you guys don't want them, if New Orleans doesn't want cousins and Houston doesn't want to sign up, Paul, let's just put them on Seattle. It'd be a good team. It would be so fun.

Blake, Boogie, and Chris Paul again, I'd move to Seattle You would? I really like Seattle I'm a big Pacific Northwest type of guy Me too, I love it Okay

I don't see Boogie there What's that? I'm out on rain You're out on rain Are you in on Boogie And paying Boogie a max? No Okay

Not at all Do you don't give Older centers Who coming off in Achilles injury of the max I honestly wouldn't give any player coming off

in Achilles a max No matter who it was Like I just don't trust that injury at all Yeah I think the big takeaway of all of this stuff, which really boils down to a few likes and unfollowes, is that it seems like the Pelicans might be willing to play hardball,

which we didn't assume a few weeks ago. We just assumed that because they were so capstrapped, that they were going to give boogie whatever you wanted, basically like what they did last off-season with Drew Holiday. But it seems like they're in a position now because they played so well and because the market is thinning for centers. I think Zach Lowe said the other day that there's maybe like two other teams that might be interested, that he might not be able to,

get what he's looking for from anywhere. It's dumb GM musical chairs. And right now it feels like we're maybe running out of the chairs. Like it's like there's not that many people out there who would make the mistake. So that's going to change the market. And I think that if New Orleans can get really creative, maybe they can upgrade a couple of the things that they have around Davis. And then you just say, okay, Drew and Davis, let's just see how far you can get.

Maybe next year we get a better seed. We get a better path. We don't hit the Warriors in the second round. Grab a Spurs or a Thunder or, or, you know, wolves match up and take it from there. Should we talk about Kat? Sure. Yeah.

I believe Zach Lowe and Brian Winters reported that the wolves and Carl Anthony Towns are not in a good place. Internally. Internally. First question, who leaks that? Which side? CA or the wolves?

Well, there was also the other story. It was the story about Tibbs flipping out at like a weird event. Did he like throw a chair or something? Was that true, though? The story was that he threw like computer through a window and it turned out not to be true. But it's definitely something I want to be true more than anything. Okay, so who leaks the cat story?

It's a great question. I think that the wolves leak that, is my opinion. Because I don't really know what Towns has to gain coming off of a kind of underwhelming season. I mean, tonight, Reggie Miller, I think, said, it might have been Chris Oliver. I can't remember. said that Capella outplayed Carl Anthony Towns in the previous round, or the first round. That's an indictment.

Capella is good, but he was a project. Carl Anthony Towns is the number one pick. I mean, he's at best also a third option. Yeah. And Towns should be your number one. A generational superstar option? Maybe. He was in the unicorn conversation for a long time.

Now he's definitely out of it. It definitely seemed like the Kentucky alumni group chat sprang to action after that happened. Yeah, so, and then the other piece of this is that Towns, There was pictures of him wearing Booker's jersey. Which, we're from a while ago, apparently, but Towns recently liked them. Yes. What the fuck are you doing with our lives? Man, I live on this kind of stuff.

It's fine. And then that was, like, tweeted out, and Booker responded with the eyes. And then Zach Levine also jumped in the fray as well because he was like Towns' his good friend before he got traded. So, I don't know. Zach and Bill talked about it. And Zach, I believe said, no. the wolves do not trade towns. But what do you do with a malcontent former unicorn who's just now a regular tall basketball

player? I'm following the story very intently because the introduction of Jimmy Butler into the baby wolves mix is very much something that could be a Sixers situation if they go off and try to get an all-star to join in Beaden Simmons. You know who would be horrible influence on the Sixers? Jimmy Butler. Can you expand on that? I just don't think that the teams he's.

played on seemed particularly happy. Yeah. Except for Team USA. Prickly personality. But that's the thing. Like, Paul George isn't known to be that person. Kauai isn't known to be that person. Well, Kauai also

may have basically just like sat out of season because he was not happy about something. Kauai comes with the Uncle Dennis tax, too. It's a whole different ball game. I think the issue is that all the issues are compounded because you have Tibbs just grinding away at everyone on top of everything. Yeah, but even before Tibbs, it was like Glenn.

Glenn Taylor being like, I want to look Andrew Wiggins in the eye and make sure he means it and wants it. It's like, I don't think that this has been a really, uh, yeah, I don't think they have brought along these guys quite that well. I don't think the Jimmy thing wound up helping as much. You have to think that they would probably have been in line for the eighth seed if Jimmy Butler hadn't been there. I mean, obviously Jimmy Butler, when they were all playing together in the earlier part of the season, they got to what, the third seed. Listen, Wiggins was also, like, reportedly unhappy with his touches this year. they brought in Derek Rose, who is not like the locker room guy, and also took away minutes from Teague and whatever.

Or not from Teague, but from, you know. They brought in the Tibbs's Hogan Zero's. They had Jamal Crawford out there, Chuck in. I mean, it was like, this was like such a weird team. And Taj, yeah. It's like this Frankenstein vets who've played for Tibbs before. That's just not fixable. Like, I don't know how you solve that.

Tibbs will have to go at some point. Yeah, my takeaway is just like, this isn't a very happy-go-lucky, sensitive workplace environment. Right. And I think those sort of things are just going to grind on people. And I also wonder long term if all these guys fit together. I mean, Wiggins' biggest issue

on top of all of Wiggins' issues, is that he's a bit too duplicative with Butler. And if you're going to shade with any of them, it's going to be Butler, because Butler is actually producing. Aren't we getting through this Eastern Conference finals and being like, oh, it's so amazing how Boston has all these interchangeable, like, rangy wings? I mean, like, wouldn't

Butler and Wiggins, at their best, be like the best version of Tatum and Brown? Sure. Yeah, but I guess the issue there is that those guys all try. 100% of the times. I mean, Wiggins' issue is so crazy because it seems like he has all the talent in the world. He just needs to use it.

Yeah. Tatum and Brown are both much better than Andrew Wiggins. I love Jalen Brown. Jalen Brown's better than Jason Tateau. He seems like an incredible hang, too. Yeah. My take is I think this is overstated. I think he got some really good press,

and everyone's like, Jalen Brown, yes, let's go. But I don't have any evidence. Because you don't have any aggressive opinions about Jason Tatum's coolness. I don't think Jalem's cool. I just really enjoy watching your way basketball. Jalen Brown had a lot of,

one really good Guardian article about him. And a Wikipedia page that, like, suggests that he speaks five languages. There's no evidence of that. I think... And an incomprehensible, like, social media handle. Yes. It's like, it's actually... It stands for faith with challenges.

Like, it's some, like, weird... It's too much. It's not weird. It's just, like, some long, like, personal motto. But I'm just saying, Jalen Brown, like, gets it past the media because everyone read the same article and was like, that guy's cool. We got to take Jailen Brown down a peg or two. He's been coasting too long.

He's really good. And also, I respect how hard he's made, he's like, you know, change his game and made himself a great NBA player. But I'm just saying, show me more than one article. Give me some interviews that prove this. Is there a single good Jason Tatum interview? No, but also no one's like, that guy's so smart. Would love to hang out with him.

I'm also the first one to be like, no, I don't want to hang out with him. I'd love to talk to you about his child, though. You were first. You were first. It's fine. It's totally fine. I think Jaylon's the type of guy who, wouldn't contribute a lot to Slack, but he would jump in the National Affairs one, like, once a month and say something really, like, profound.

Profound. And then he would leave the Slack? Yeah. Right. Yes. He would be in my drop. Yeah. Totally. Let's end this podcast on an emotional heat check.

Can I ask you one question? Which Celtic would you most want to be in a Slack channel with? Al Horford, no question. First of all, he wouldn't slack that much, so it wouldn't be annoying. And second of all, I have a crush on him. I would want to be in a Slack channel with Mark is smart. high energy. It's got to be Terry.

Terry's just saying whatever the fuck I'm doing mine. No, because Terry would only be like by my shirt, check out my meme. That's us though. That's a good point.

Marcus Smart would be a good one. Al Horford, I'd like to have dinner with, but Marcus Smart maybe we could text. Slack. What was your last question? Finally, I'd like to end

on an emotional heat check for you, Chris Ryan. This is not the heat check podcast. But how do you feel about your 1B franchise player vacationing at the Atlantic

resort, which is really, really cheesy, yet expensive, with the minority owner credited with bringing Meek Mill to game three of the previous round, Michael Rubin. Getting some Robert Para vibes from Michael Rumen. We'd love for him to not, remember when Michael Robert Parra played one-on-one with Tony Allen during the playoffs, even though Tony Allen had like a hamstring string. Yeah, just don't want Joelle playing back. basketball and flip-flops.

I think he should have, like, cooler, more wide variety of friends. I think that there's probably better places to stay than Atlantis, although if Atlantis wants to comp me to find out how cool it is, I'm open to it. There's a Mary Kate and Ashley movie set at The Atlantis. That's all you need to know. Okay. So, I mean, but, you know, the thing is that Joel is out, like, drinking pictures of Shirley Temple and hanging out with Justin Bieber.

He's not the coolest guy in the world. So my take on this, I don't think it's that bad. I think the Atlantis thing is kind of embarrassing. But I just think of all of the places that your superstar with a history of injury could be. This is really not that bad. I also just want to say that him trying to clown Aaron Baines when the Celtics beat the Sixers is loser shit. And he should be above that. It's true.

Like Man Bung lives to get dunked on. It's like Aaron Baines is like playing pretty well in the Eastern Conference Finals. He's very useful on his team. Can I give you my conspiracy theory on the Michael Rubin stuff? Sure. I think Joelle reads the Blum. and he sees that LeBron might be coming to the Sixers. And Embed knows that if LeBron comes,

the spacing might not be great. He might not be able to take a few more threes than he's used to. Maybe he and Ben Simmons, one of them, ends up getting traded. So he rubs up to Michael Rubin and is like, listen, we don't need LeBron. You just got to keep us together. So you think this is the Whisper campaign? I think so. That's interesting.

Huh? I don't know. Who do you think Embedde definitely wants LeBon less than Simmons? Oh, 100%. M.B. gets traded if LeBron comes. I don't know about that. He does. He's, I really don't.

He is so popular in Philly. If LeBron comes to your team and he has a fellow, there aren't that many clutch clients in the league. And so like two of them are on the same team. You think they're going to trade away one of them? Guys, you just make it work. They're both on. Yeah.

They're both like, why do we have to, what's the point of getting LeBron if you have to trade one of these guys? I don't want to make this darker than it needs to be, but we don't know if Embedd's going to be healthy again. He's fine. Is there indication he's not healthy? No, but.

I mean, just because he was healthy for one season doesn't necessarily mean he'll be healthy. One season does not a career make. That's what you're saying. Yep, exactly. That's what I thought. Well, everyone, this has been a lively special Tuesday night, Wednesday morning for some NBA ringer NBA show. Come back tomorrow night, Wednesday for group chat. I won't be here.

You probably won't miss me, though. And of course, on Friday we got draft class. And on Sunday nights, we got heat check. And I think we're headed for two game seven. That means there's a game every day for the rest of time. The rest of my life. Or at least until next Monday. Thanks for listening.

Juliet. What? Bachelor at Back. Oh, yes. And The Bachelor at one of the television shows I cover, it's coming back on Monday. You can listen to Bachelor Party. First guest, David Chacobi of ESPN. And many more guests to come. It's going to be a great season.

Yeah. Do you guys have any personal announcements? Where we go? I got to go edit a blog. I actually will say on The Bachelor at this season, there is a professional dunker. He is also a body double for like Donovan Mitchell in his Adidas commercials.

Do you think he gets farther than the pro football focus guy? No, I don't. I think that this gentleman, Chris Staples, gets out rather early, which hopefully means he'll be on my podcast soon. Wow. Dare to dream. Yes. Thanks again for listening. Listen to the ringer NBA show all week. And thanks again to ADT and Microsoft Teams.

And Big Ev! Anything is possible.