The Ringer NBA Show - Welcome to Trade Season: Six Big Questions as the Rumor Mill Heats Up. Plus, Wemby Snuffs Out the Thunder. | Group Chat

Episode Date: December 15, 2025

Justin, Rob, and J. Kyle Mann are together in L.A. to welcome everyone to trade season. The guys run through six big trade questions now that recently signed free agents are allowed to be traded. Before they get to that, the guys give their thoughts on the Spurs' upset win over the Thunder, and briefly preview the NBA Cup final matchup between San Antonio and the Knicks. (00:00) Intro (3:19) FanDuel ad break (4:13) Spurs-Thunder (19:36) Spurs-Knicks (25:11) FanDuel ad break (26:32) Amazon Prime ad break (29:22) Chasing stars? (37:42) Giannis trades (48:34) Intriguing non-Giannis trades (1:00:59) Teams that should unload a star (1:06:32) Which team needs to make a trade? (1:16:35) Buy-low players Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and J. Kyle Mann Video Producer: Victoria Valencia Audio Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Social: Isaiah Blakely and Keith Fujimoto The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit ⁠www.rg-help.com⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Shopping. Streaming. Celebrating. It’s on Prime. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Varyer and sitting in front of me, Rob Mahoney, Jay Kyle, man. We are assembled here in lovely Los Angeles, California. Should we, like, put our hands together and we can maybe get Victoria to, like, get some after effects, like sparks go up in the air or I don't know. It's the least we could do and the Victoria can do. Like, we need a little VFX work to really give us some life.

I think it's the problem on a regular basis. Can we get some actual props? What would you like? throw pixie dust in the air or like pop rocks or something. That sounds like a nice lane for you. I think you just uncovered a thing that you could start doing when we're together. Why not? Kyle, he's been living in this lane.

One thing I've learned about Justin podcasting with him for now several years. This dude is a prop comedian at heart. He yearns for a prop. If we gave him a mallet and a watermelon on this table, he would be a happy, happy boy. The carrot top of podcasting. I didn't realize. I just need a bray in like a striped shirt and I can go full gallier. Let's go.

I think you have it in you. So one of the last times I think we were all assembled here in lovely Los Angeles. We were doing those preseason podcasts. Rob and I were. And what was the thing? Is the New York Times like love list or something like that? Yes, questions to fall in love. Okay.

I have a test for you guys, which is can you pass Justin's? He won't murder you if you get this wrong test. Well, historically no. You ready for this? I'm ready to try it. That's true. So I was at the airport. TSA line was huge, which was odd because TSA is where you're supposed.

to cut through all of the riffraff. But unfortunately, there were two lines you can get into after you got into this one big line. There's a shorter line, but it stopped you from getting to the longer line, right? So two lines you're going through like this. You can either go to the short line here or there's a longer line here, but you block people here from getting to the longer line. You get that? I do not get that.

So this is like a TSA logistics issue is what you're describing? Yes. So basically you could take. a right, but you're blocking the people behind you, or you can go straight, but it's a longer path to get to where you're going. Yes. You get it now? So the test is which one are we supposed to take?

Yes. You obviously believe that you should take the longer path and suffer, but not inconvenience to people behind you. Kyle? I don't know. I was going to say, this seems like a candid camera morality test kind of thing, that people, you were secretly being watched or something to see what kind of person you are. I don't know.

Maybe I don't know you that well, Justin. I kind of felt like you would have just picked the one that served you and just fuck everybody else. That's kind of what I was thinking. We need to suffer in order for the good of everyone. You know him better than me. We're trying to build a society here, people. Do we just like say fuck everybody for minor conveniences? I think we're well past that, Jesse.

It doesn't even take the inconvenience at this point. That's more of a reason to do it. I'm with you. I also know the only thing you want more than to be a prop comedian is like 40 days of suffering in the desert. Like you just have this in you where maybe 20. Okay. Just a little bit. Enough suffering that I have some good stories afterwards.

I would love that. Okay. The Ringer NBA show is presented by Fandul. Fandall. Fandall's got it all. Same game parlay's quick bets for jumping in live and your way so you could build the bet that fits your play. Plus, don't miss out on holiday offers and surprises all month long. Download the Fandle app or head to fandle.

com slash ringer MBA to get started. 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus in present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. call 1 800 gambler or visit rg dash help.com. Call 188-789-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Well, today we're not suffering because we're doing one of our favorite dates on the NBA calendar. We're going to talk about some trades or what could happen during trade deadline. December 15th is the annual opening, unofficial opening of trade season.

We're going to talk through six questions I have on the docket in order to get us prime. for that but first and foremost we have to talk about last night's action on saturday yeah uh we figured spurs thunder in vegas the semi final matchup of the west for the cup would be a bit of a slobber knocker as long as when he played uh he did indeed played he didn't play a full allotment of minutes and yet it was still probably the game of the year thus far oh yeah and the best game in cup history easily in terms of you think so i don't i guess maybe i haven't respected the cup enough to know extensively but yeah i mean that was it was a heck of a game i can't but i can't think of another one compare with it.

I think the Pacers maybe when they were surprising in the Cup a couple years ago. I think the difference is this felt like a great cup game and also one with actual implications that transcend the Emirates NBA Cup. Right. And this is where I think the stage and the cup atmosphere definitely built this up into something more than I was going to be. Because if this was just a regular season game, it would still be a good game. But it felt like those guys were playing to the stage.

Wembe in particular, it seems like he just has some understanding of the moment and some of the best, not only players, but guys who, like, understand their role within the fabric of, like, the NBA history and narrative. And just seemed like he played into it. He was given, like, some wild quotes going into the game, Baoikits and all his other stuff. And when he was going through the entire game, he was really giving it back to the Thunder. I think they gave it back to him as a result. And so this had practically everything you would want from a game. At the heart of these two teams, which, you know, we're going to, not to tease it, but we have a lot more to discuss about these two teams and their future is just competing against each other.

But I think at the heart of these two teams is a rivalry that goes back a long time. I mean, you know, we saw that I, and to speak what you're saying is there is the chippiness. There is the wimby. Couldn't really tell if he was being totally serious when Kaysen Wallace tried to swipe at him in the second half. And he did the, he flexed his bones. And I was like, okay. Kaysen was like in the foreground smile and like, you believe this guy?

But at the heart of this, though, is that he and Chet have had a long-running thing, which is really funny because Chet has, you know, exerted his will as the lanky guy, how impossibly he's doing these skilled things, impossibly he's these balanced and skilled. And Wimby is just that and just, like, expanded. And that goes back to, like, U-19 and Fiba stuff when the USA was playing France in the past. So all that to say, he seems to have, like, a real nasty, chippy, towards the thunder. Like, in particular, Chet, but I don't know. I mean, he's like barking at Caruso.

There was a lot of good stuff. Anyone who dared try to guard him. And I think this is one of the great things, as you were talking about, Wemby, Justin, where he does have a sense of the moment. He does have a sense of his place in basketball history. He also is one of the rare international stars that's willing to play the game behind the game. You know, even after a game like this, take a perfectly plausibly deniable shot about playing, you know, the Spurs playing ethical hoops.

It's like, yes, they do, but also we're all now going to look at the thunder and have that conversation as a result. He knows how to push and prod just enough where it's not annoying. And it does feel deserving of his station because he is this good. And the league is kind of handing itself over to him in a lot of ways. Would you consider party in the USA to be an ethical song to celebrate? What would be unethical about it? Oh, I'm just wondering. Like, because they apparently played it in the Spurs locker room after they won.

I think it's the move. Unethical would probably be, I don't know, like poison. You know, not an unethical bone in Miley's body. What if they were playing cherry pie afterwards? A bunch of 20-year-olds rocked to cherry pie. That would be a problem. I wonder if they even heard that song. No, my wife gets really, really disgusted with me

because I genuinely like party in the USA. But there was a funny thing that happened, though, in the first half was interesting because the script of this was like typical thunder. They're coming out. They're punching. And they in particular were having a lot of fun with the idea of Luke Cornett retreating and pick and roll or, you know, picking on Deeran Fox with like, they were setting these, like, really high ball screens.

And the moment that Cornett was backpedaling, but it was just Thunder, chum, basically. It was like throwing meat into a shark, piranha tank, whatever you want to call it. But it made me think of, I know I'm on like a run of like thinking of reminding me of random things from my past, but it reminded me of this. Did you guys read the far side when you were growing up? sure. I had all the far side books. I think my parents intentionally were trying to make me a bizarre person. I don't know why. I mean, like way, way, way too young had him. But there was this one I remember that was set in the old west. And you see these cowboy sheriff, this cowboy sheriff coming out of

the front door. And in the background, you see these people like screaming because they've been robbed. And the sheriff says, well, the bank's been hit again. He said, no need to worry. We'll just take the big horse. And you see in the side of the frame, there's a row of like four. normal size horses. And then there's this one horse that's so big. It's just like ridiculously big. And that's what I was thinking about when I was watching the Spurs game where I was like, the Spurs just have a really big horse that they can just. And when he came into the game, you know, he affects, he was noping their several possessions in a row where it was like case and wall, it's short roll, looks up. No, not going to do that. throws it to the corner. Jalen,

there's a good close. Jalen Williams drives to the basket, looks up. Not going to do that. ugly Shea ISO at the top of the key and he bricks it. It's just amazing what Wimby does even to a team as good as the Thunder. There was a possession in the fourth quarter. He was trying to get a seal on kind of like the midpost. And Dier and Fox threw like a pretty ill-advised long post-entry pass. J-Dub sees it come and fronts it. Any other player J-Dub picks it off and runs.

Wemby just like reaches over the top, pokes it back to himself, draws a foul. It's like a totally different kind of big boy than what we usually see. Right. But you saw throughout this game all the ways in which a. player like Victor Wenyama makes the thunder overreact, something they almost never do to anyone else. There's really just like, I would say two guys in the whole league who make them operate this way,

and it's Wembe and Yokic. But they have to put three bodies on him when a ball is available off the glass. They have to put multiple bodies on him when he's trying to even just like turn around in the post or at the elbow. He really stresses them out in a unique way that honestly, given where we are in the season, how great the thunder have been. I think we all needed this.

I think we needed as a basketball loving collective. a like if it bleeds you can kill it moment. Yes, especially considering the game against the suns to set up this game where they just wiped the floor with them. And the Thunder probably no team others than them since the Warriors, like Prime KD Warriors, has a team just whipped ass so decisively. And I thought this was going to be another one of those games because of the way that it started.

And it seemed like it had that, oh, no moment, right? Like we're not going to get the good game that we thought we would. And part of that was because of the minute distribution that they set Wembe up on to the point where, like, they basically had him as the Jaws shark just waiting in the wings until we got there. He didn't play in the first quarter. And all of a sudden, he plays in the second quarter and things just instantly flipped. Incredible how it flipped.

It's just like it almost felt like Ms. Johnson had like an understanding of like drama and how to build attention in this whole story because as soon as it happened, the game was completely different. And then toward the end, it set up where he was playing as many minutes as he could. And they were able to turn it around and win the game. And so it was kind of, I almost wished that, like, they do more of that, even though they would take Wembe off the court more. It was amazing. It was just an amazing game to watch for all the implications, for the actual basketball, for as you're saying, like, the tension of those moments.

And if anything, if you want to put to like a particular stretch where the Spurs won this thing, they were great in crunch time. They were great. Basically every minute Wembe was on the floor, the third quarter stretch without Wembe is kind of where they pulled it together. And winning those minutes after how transformative he had been, I just came away incredibly impressed. Like, anytime Fox and Castle have been on the floor together, I really love the combination. Anytime they're on the floor together with Wembe, it looks really special. It looks like it could really tap into something unique and lasting and something that could expand into everything that the Spurs want to be. You mentioned them throwing the entry passes and Fox throwing the entry passes.

I will say they were freaking out. He converted and tips. Wimby's hand has the best hands of anyone his, well, granted no one is his size. But we've never seen anything. He just has incredible soft touch and flipping it to himself. But they're going to get him killed if they don't start throwing. There was a stretch where he was falling down. Like, Wimby was duct taping it together somehow and like making things happen.

But they're just going to have to figure something out that's a little less chaotic because he was falling down. And I was just like worried about him genuinely. But we were talking about the lineup, the lineup too, that I thought was really interesting. was, and I wanted to speak to this about something I think that a lot has been said about Dylan Harper. Obviously, he deserves it. He's highly lauded. Came in number two pick, whatever. It gets a lot of credit for that. But there was a sequence in the first half where we were talking about where they were, you know, the thunder were impenetrable. And Harper came in and got in the paint in a way that no one else on the Spurs could. And he really looked unbothered. And to me, I flagged that where I was like,

That is really interesting because then in the, I don't remember, it was it the third quarter where they went with the Fox, Harper, Bessel, Barnes, Wembe? I believe so. That lineup seemed to genuinely give the Thunder genuine problems, like in a way that could be a vision of the future. So this was the first game the entire year with Fox Castle, Harper, and Wembe, all on the floor together, which is wild to think, because it also had like a weird cascading effect where each guy kind of had their moment. Yeah.

Like Harper gave way to Castle, gave way to Fox and then Wembe comes in and just takes over. The idea that they don't even know how to manage these minutes and these lineups and everything just speaks to like how much more there is out there in order to explore that territory. I'm just getting to a point with Stefan Castle

where he's one of my favorite players to watch. He's great. In the league. I didn't think he had this leap in him. Considering last year he popped, but you would assume that the nuance that he didn't have to his game last year would come to bear here when they're trying to manage the lineups

a little bit more. And yet in these moments, again, for a guy who we were all wondering, is he going to be more of an on-ball presence? Is he going to be more of like a weird, funky combo off-guard, cutting and slicing and finding other ways to score? I just feel really comfortable when he has the ball in his hands, watching him. He is kind of both. And I think it's the verve, it's the confidence.

It's like the buzz of energy that he plays with. And he's one of these guys who's like not too cool for anything. Like he will do all the dirty work. And in doing so, it makes him ironically like pretty fucking cool to watch. Like he just had, he carries something with him that not a lot of young guards have. He's an extremely thundery player, not on the thunder. And I think we were talking about how, you know, the heat were getting really stifled in the fact that the magic had a perfect, I guess this was last week or whatever episode it was,

but how they had a perfect answer for them at all the different entry points of their offense. I think the spurs have some personnel, some unique personnel advantages that other teams don't have. And I think we saw it throughout that game. Now, Shea does what Shea does and he gets to his spots. but Castle, Vassell, a couple of those guys really were, you know, and we've talked about when you have Wimby back there, you can really attack some of those Thunder creators with Reckles of Bain, because you know that he's back there.

They went like out of their way to do that. You could see all the time the Thunder were trying to pull Wemby into Pick and Rolls, and the Spurs were just kind of scrambling him out, keeping him in the corner, stand there, Garred Kaysen Wallace for a minute, Lou Doort for a minute, whatever you have to do to stay on the back line. And I think it's a really smart way to guard the Thunder for a variety of reasons,

if you can get away with it, in part because you just make them kill time. You just make them kill clock. Like they're trying to find their matchup that they can work to get into the lane to spray out for threes to do the normal thunder offensive stuff. But now they're doing it and they can't move Victor Webbenyama from the paint, basically.

I think it's just going to take its toll over the course of a game like this. And the thunder are going to have all kinds of answers in all sorts of other ways. I'm not worried about OKC. And frankly, I think, you know, this is a good game for all of us. I think it's a good game for them too.

Like being the immortal. tyrant ruling the league and having to sweat a little bit now and again is ultimately a healthy thing. But I was really impressed with the Spurs game planning in addition to the personnel stuff. They had to bleed their own blood finally. But it was nice. Yes, because I do think you need some of these setbacks in order to recalibrate. Even Dwayne Wade was saying that and he was part of the heat team that went on that magical run with the heat, not only just for the titles, but for the win streak. And so he would know, I just felt like the thunder were pretty predictable late in the game. And like as Rob is saying,

like we're nitpicking here, the Thunder are amazing and they could have won that game easily if a couple of Wembe jumpers didn't go in if he didn't catch the shot that he had to recatch in order to hit that jumper didn't go in. But it's just like, you know what's going to Shea? And most of the time he will do work. But like when Lute Doort is wide open,

can't hit a three, this is the worry that you have in the back of your mind. As they're rattling off wins, are teams going to play them like that? And are those guys, those kind of iffy shooters, are they not going to be there when they need them to? They're definitely going to play them like that. Yeah.

You don't have any choice. I mean, it's just like what level of survival are you willing to accept? What's funny about a game like this, though, is like Jadab and Shea were pretty damn good down the stretch. It's not like the offense fell to pieces. The last like couple possessions that got rocky. But even then, like if you're creating a wide open three for Ludo, it's not a bad outcome of a possession. He's made big shots in the past. Yeah, but he's also missed a lot of big shots in the past.

And so I don't know. The Spurs just seemed a little bit more dangerous. Perhaps that's the unpredictability factor. Perhaps that's just when B was meeting a moment. But, you know, when Shea had to like double step back into like a fadeaway three, it's just like, all right, that's tough. It's tough. But he hits tough shit all the time.

I guess so. They can put him in position. That was one game. You know, I'd be curious to see like in a sequence of games or dare I say a series of games to see what would happen and how they would respond. But also, you know, not to, you know, hammer this and just act like the thunder were just exposed. and like, you know, it's like they had some pretty amazing moments, too, defensively down the stretch.

I mean, granted, they're a hack and swiping kind of team. And I mean, Caruso, despite, you know, Wimby hitting that crazy fade away on him, I mean, Caruso had one amazing, his hands and accuracy with his hands are crazy, that block that Dord had on. How did, I rewound that, I don't know, 10 times just to watch, because he timed that perfectly.

How would you, it was almost like watching like a physics problem. I was like, how did he calculate in his brain? when he would be able to get to that ball. You know what I'm talking about? If this train left this city at 2 o'clock, it really is that kind of thing. But that's what you have to do against the Spurs now. Like, you do really have to work out some pretty advanced physics

just to contest what should be like normal basic stuff. I wasn't surprised that Caruso was the one getting the assignment against Wemby 2. Like he's at another huge moment and he looks like one of the best players on the floor, even though his offensive game is just what it is. He's just such an absolute baller. and he's just built for high-level competitive basketball. All true. And yet, him bricking that fast break layup that could have essentially, like,

given the Thunder, the lead, if not sealed the game. That's what he does, too. I'm just saying, like, it's all a give and take, you know? Yes, this would be the concern with the Thunder. But awesome game in Vegas, better than the first game, which ultimately, I think the injuries just stacked up for the magic. And so we'll get Spurs versus Knicks in the final. Yeah. Pretty good final, all things considered.

So do you just start with O.G. Ninobe on Wembe? I love Alex Caruso. Or do you, like, do you give any time to cat guarding Victor Weapon Yamba? I don't think so. I don't know. Like, Wimby can go by him, number one, he can shoot over him. Number two, he can pass over him. I just, it's going to be different than the way that they attack. What I was noticing is when Wimby, any kind of moment where Wimby is dancing, any kind of prolonged, extended. did dancing with the ball is when the thunder would bring the help. Well, he is the best dancer for his size in NBA history. I'm just saying whenever he's smart about like not crossing that line of like dancing

for like two or three seconds, like if he makes a simple move, you know, I'll be curious to see how the Knicks guard him. He's had an interesting history with the Knicks too. You remember they bullied the shit out of him his rookie year and he came back and punished him. I would assume it's going to be a lot like the like if he gets in the corner, they're going to bring the McHale Bridge's OG kind of thing. But getting up under him and kind of making him bend his back,

I think is the most effective way to neutralize him at this point, right? Yes, I think it definitely want to jostle his dribble and like any time he puts it on the deck to really crowd him. OG might be one of the best defenders to throw at him, considering his size and strength and like his length at that regard. I almost wonder how much they can get away with just putting him on there and then forcing Wembe just to beat him. But it'll be interesting.

I hope that Wembe can play a couple more minutes, maybe in the first quarter even. Yeah. So we'll see. Yeah, ending up at 21 minutes, we clearly would love to see more. But this is the question of like, how much does a cup final really, really matter? You know, the Spurs are playing for so much more than this. And at the same time, clearly they're invested in the outcome of challenging the thunder.

And I presume challenging the Knicks too. How about this? Two days rest. What a concept that we can get rest getting into these big games. It is nice. It seemed like it mattered. I don't know if it was just like the stage or the lights or perhaps they could just hear Stan Van Gundy all lubricated. on the broadcast because he was definitely feeling it, man.

Let me tell you. Dude, he had me rolling. It was the game before where he was talking about Dylan Harper had not packed enough clothes on a road trip. And then he started talking about clean underwear. And I was like, I wish he could be my grandpa. I don't know the ages work there, really. I don't want to accuse staying to being too old there.

He had the alien comment. And then you could tell everyone, like the collar's got a little too tight and like, okay, so how about that free throw? But yeah, he was really going for it. I thought it was great. Everything was great. And so if we get something similar to that, yeah, I think the cup has a little bit more juice than it had yesterday.

Definitely so. We're on that path. We just need another, at least tight game. You know, it's not going to necessarily replicate Thunder Spurs, but we can get pretty close, I think, with the Knicks. I think it could be a pretty good game. I think more, even more interesting, I think, is the length that the spurs have to throw at Brunson could be pretty interesting.

Guys that could just go balls to the wall and try to irritate him. Because, yeah, the magic just didn't. Well, honestly, I mean, who do you think even really killed the magic for the Knicks? I mean, it seemed like OG did a ton of damage. Brunson, they weren't riding Brunson super hard. He was kind of picking his spots. You're Jalen Brunson, you pick your spots and you end up with 40. Like, that's just kind of the way it goes for him sometimes.

It didn't even feel like it, but yeah. I also wonder if Wembe will have a little bit of extra juice because, you know, he senses these moments as we were saying, but like the Knicks being New York and I don't know. It just feels like he will be up for that task. I do wonder if the collective girth of the Knicks is a new sort of challenge because it's a lot of big boys out there. As opposed to a lot of the spurs,

there's like the long boys, but this is now the chunky boys or I don't know how we're... I mean, they still got the McAil types, you know. They still have some wiry fellas in there. It's really Odie, right? I mean, everybody else is wired. Well, Hart's pretty stout.

If cats are four in those big lineups, Mitchell Robinson's a big old country boy. Yeah. Drives his trucks. That's some livestock. Louisiana dude. Yeah. Now I'm getting my wires cross on,

which one is the, you know, the small market, middle America team. You know, all of a sudden, you're saying that the truck driving New York Knicks,

the workman, New York Knicks, you know, they're really leaning into the bid with the Tims and everything. Like, you have this, you were on this kick

that saying that San Antonio was a big market. It's a gigantic city. I just don't. Yeah, but not in terms of market size. And I still don't get it. In terms of market size,

it's one of the biggest cities in America. No, you're saying literal, like, geography. Like, no, I'm talking population. Humans. Yeah. Population. One of the biggest cities in America.

But it's one of the smaller NBA markets in the league. That's not true. It's always been true. It's just not true. Like, you have it in your head that this is true, but it's just not. Well, I must have missed all those stories back in the Duncan, Tony Parker era. Is it the small market success? Is it the cosmopolitan factor that's there?

Because can you have a lot of people but not be cosmopolitan? And thus you're seeing as, you know what I'm seeing? I think it's point. I think it's plenty cosmopolitan. I think it's, well, we used to go by media markets. I don't know what that means anymore. Also, St. Antonio has branched off into Austin to the point where it seems like Austin has adopted them almost as their own.

They've been flirted with Austin and going there. So there's a lot of complications, but historically, San Antonio was one of the smallest. Well, look, for the record, the conversation we were having was about Houston. That was the city we were talking about, not San Antonio. San Antonio is a city of a certain size. Houston is a massive fucking city. I don't know where we are anymore. Why don't we take a break and when we come back.

We'll talk trade deadline. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Fandul. This NBA season on Fandul, it's all about the boost because game days mean your chance to boost your bet and make every play pay off. That's right. All customers get a 25% SGP and parley profit boost. So we're looking at the NBA Cup final because that's where we are. Spurs, Knicks are favored minus two and a half, but I got to be honest.

I kind of like the Knicks in this one. can't really pinpoint why, if only because I just think that the Knicks just have the combination of veteran leadership and also they've been there before sort of quality to them. The Spurs maybe don't have when he's still on this minute restriction. I don't know. I just feel the Knicks have this one under the bright lights in Vegas. So let's gamble a little bit and go with the Knicks minus two and a half. And the games never stop. And with Fandul, you've got more ways to make every win even bigger.

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It's on Prime. Head to Amazon.com slash Prime to shop now. All right, so December 15, important date on the NBA calendar because that is when most of the players over the off season can be now packaged into trades. I believe like something 80, 90 percent of players can be traded at this point. There's still a January 15th date for some other players, got extended and whatnot. But by and large, this is seen on the calendar as unofficial start

of trade season. That's going to be on Monday. We're recording this on the 14th. So we've been doing these pods for a while now. I was actually going through the Google Doc archives and the first one I found was from 2021 and the pod started with, in air quotes, a brief COVID update. And I was like, that's dark. Do you have a brief COVID update for us today? I don't know what's going on with COVID these days. Do you have anything from? I think you should stay on top of it. Yeah. It was like Alvin Gentry, 67, just contracted COVID. Oh yeah. Well, especially that that year in particular, if I'm remembering correctly, was like the hardship exception, like so many guys were sick. They were literally like pulling dudes off the street to play.

That was one of the funnier things they were witnessed in person is that Charks and I actually went to the G League's showcase in December or was it January, but it was right there. Do you remember that time when it was like it was the huge spiraling COVID outbreak? And while we're there watching these dudes auditioned to be in the NBA, they're in real time getting pulled up. So guys are like pulling them out off the court like, hey, we need you to go and they're like, you know, flying to play. That was a bizarre time. Like just absolutely bizarre. That was a good time to have no social life because then you might get an NBA. attend day as a result of it.

Yeah. I miss my time. Stay home. Mario Chalmers and Scotty Hopson getting out there trying to get good deals. So yeah, so we've been doing this for a couple of years now. I love this time of year. Of course you do. There's more to unearth and like let's just mess things up, you know?

Like we know where the league is right now. I feel like everyone has a good sense of each other and their team and the roster and what they need and what they don't need. Now it's just like, all right, let's throw some wrenches into the mix. got Dennis Schroeder, I think, last year going to the Warriors before he ultimately made his way in a weird way to the Pistons. It's an impact for the Pistons, too. I mean, in the playoffs. Turned out to be a really important player for them. And now he's on the Kings.

Yep. Don't know what's going on there. Life comes at you fast. We might talk about them in a little bit. So I have six questions down. Yeah, we will. I want to start big picture because there is a lot of talk. ESPN has a story up from the other day.

I think it was Bond Tempts and Winhorse. But also, we've been talking about this. on and off in a different way about whether or not teams are going to chase stars as ardently as they had in the past, considering important depth is considering all the repercussions of all the aprons and whatnot. Rob, do you buy that idea that teams are not going to go after stars as hard or maybe at all because they need to manage those things a little bit more meticulously? I can't quite get there.

And I think some of it is like billionaires still like shiny stuff. Yeah. and if a really great player comes available, there's going to be a part of them that wants to just reach out and grab it. And so long as that is true, no apron will fully be able to stop them. I think there are restrictions.

I think the market is shifting. I do think there's maybe like a little more aversion to the Kevin Durant style. We're going to give up all of these picks to make this happen. And there's a little more aversion to the, we are going to gut our team to make this possible. Like that hasn't honestly hasn't happened

in a while period. It's almost like the Carmelo to the next. Knicks model of team building. We're just going to trade all of these guys to the point that we're not even going to be as competitive on the other side in some like roster building senses. It's just that's what's tough. It's like you can't trade for Janus and then get it together. You got to somehow have it together while trading for Janus without giving up too much of your team in the process. You can see how the list of suitors can narrow pretty quickly with all that going on. Yeah. I mean, in your question here, you were saying, talking, asking the just the simple question

if teams are cooling. And I was like, not of their own volition have been cool. by some of these things. And the handcuffs and the constraints and the Houdini straight jacket, whatever you want to call it, has gotten a lot tighter. But I think Rob's right. I mean, I think the question is just, who really is in the position to get their shit together quickly enough to make it worth it? And when you look across the league, I'm just like, there's so many teams that I think to myself, like, it's just not, I feel conservative for a lot of these teams. The only, is there one that's like, I know we'll get into this? Is there a team that is not in the position.

You know, we joked about the Bulls a couple years ago where the Bruce Willis in Sixth Sense, like, are there teams out there that don't realize they're dead and they actually are dead? I think those culprits are the ones that are more likely to make moves than the teams that are close. It's so risky. That's a good point. I do think if you look at the top of the league is a lot of these teams that are taking

over after the big Goliaths with the big threes who got rid of all their picks have kind of faded into the sunset. Now we're talking about the thunder and the spurs. like, do we really need to mess up this finally crafted? We have stars and also guys who could be stars and depth in order to take a risk on like a big swing that might narrow our window versus we could have the next 10 years. Right.

And maybe we won't win as many titles and maybe win as many in a row. But we're going to have a runway here to do some damage. And so you're right. I think it's both the apron stuff, but it's also like teams being like, do we need this? I mean, some of the best teams in the league being young and deep, you're right, is falling into. this conversation because in theory a team like the pistons would be maybe at the forefront of

some like the should they trade for a superstar to pair with kade to build like an incredible contender i think the pissinger is too good for a lot of that you know and so like some of these teams being so far ahead of the curve in a way that honestly feels sustainable like what the thunder are doing is obviously sustainable where the spurs are i think in many ways in a team building sense is quite sustainable so yeah why would you rock that particular boat if you can have your cake and eat it too with Castle and Harper and Fox. I don't know. You're having it. You're eating it too. I don't know what the third thing is in this equation.

You're having a lot of cake. It's a lot. You know, the dessert tray is full. Like, why upset it? Yeah. In the ESPN article, they pointed to both the suns and the clippers and their starts as reasons why teams wouldn't do this. The sons, because they get rid of KD, and they stop chasing this idea of being star-studded, and all of a sudden they're playing with a spunk and energy that has got them into at the very least the play and mix.

The Clippers, on the other hand, have all these older stars. They have struggled, as we all know. But I would point to the Sons of last year or two years ago as an example of why there are limits to this idea, because there's always going to be one team or two teams that want to zag against conventional wisdom and see like, oh, well, if everyone is like going away from Stars, if we can get a lower price on this guy, let's just go off and do that. It's going to be tougher because the one thing the spurs on Earth, or excuse me, the Sons on Earth was the fact that the second apron is like his terrible.

as you think it is, but I still think there's going to be someone or some ones out there that say like, actually Star Power wins in this league. Fuck your death. We only have to get through half of a season. Let's just push this in now and see what happens. I think there's some truth to that. My question is, are teams still going to be willing to trade like the Sons did for a guy and not the perfect guy, right?

It's not like we have a star big and we want to get the star guard to pair with him. Or we have a pretty complete team. We see this wing out there who would really bring it all together. That was just like, we have a real. really good scoring jump shooting ball handler and another decent scoring jump shooting ball handler and we want to bring in another one just because we can. That's very different than I think what some of the like, for example, the Janus propositions will be. Yeah, some of these teams, it seems like that would be most likely. If you're trying to like profile, like an FBI,

like profile someone who would commit this type of crime, which it usually, Howard wrote a really nice article about how it usually turns out to be a flaccid, you know, fart sound doesn't go anywhere kind of thing. Because number one, a lot of the times the guys that you trade for, you know, you go ahead and you punch your future and you just have these, it can come down to as simple as just human frailty. Like, you know, that net

situation should have worked, you know, worked. I think history always tends to forget that they were just kicking the ever living shit out of the bucks in the beginning half of that series. And then, you know, Harden Hamstring, Kyrie Ankle, boom. We're on the trajectory. We're on the path of that being over completely.

But you think about the teams that have these finite depleting resources of legacy players. I think Durant is somebody who profiles us that where they get this great deal on Durant. They have this window where maybe they want to go for it. They have some wiggle room with some assets to go do it. The Warriors, I think we're another example of like we have these proven guys that are a system themselves. We have the wiggle room and the culture and the leverage to go get a butler. I think of teams like that. But I'm like, is it the Lakers? Is it, you know, the Timberwolves are kind of close because they have something that works with their defense.

I just don't know. Those are the teams that seem to make the most sense to me for like, they're okay with the idea of like this is just going to be a short term gratification, whatever it is we get. Because the top, as we saw, are these teams that are super young. And that long term is just insurmountable. I think you'd have to be thinking maybe we'll get a glimpse at the sun if we vault ourselves high enough, but we are going right back down to the earth if we do.

And I wonder about the bigger, broader implications if we're saying that nobody's going and go and do this as well. Just because, well, one, like, does it cool just chatter about the league? Because we've kind of gotten, like, full circle and then, like, oh, we don't want trade rumors to dominate the league because we want people to plug in. But then, like, nobody was talking about the league for a while. We were like, well, we want that back. We need to get guys into it.

So they then go watch the games. And I don't know where we're falling on that now. But I think the other thing is, like, if we're saying that availability is the best ability, like, is that good for the league? If we're selling that, like, just trudging through a regular season matters so much that you won't go and get rid of your precious death to trade for Yannis or anybody, really. Is it good for the league that, like, that's not going to happen, that we need, that the regular season has become just a slaughterhouse. And to get the rate of two games means you're not going to go and get the biggest, most interesting team. I think it's a fair question.

I also don't know how you could look at just the sheer frequency of calf injuries going on and be like, yeah, I want a, I want a shallower team. I want a super team three-star construction, and I feel great about it. Like, it's just, everything feels so precarious in terms of just getting through the 82. You're right, it feels like a slaughterhouse. That is what, that's where the marketplace is right now, right? That is like the meta game within the league.

It's like, how do you build the roster that's deep enough to compete in that very specific way? And then when it matters, you're eight and nine deep enough to really blow teams out or at least push them in the playoffs. All right. We're talking about Yana. So why don't we go to our second question here, which is, Which realistic suitor, if you were Janus, would you be trying to force your way too? Janus, he's out for a little while.

I imagine the Bucks will probably keep losing games as a result of that. Yet another calf injury. We don't really know where his mind is because obviously the reports about the Nick stuff over the summer seem to have been just reemphasized based off of the more recent reporting there. But now it's just like, it seems like he's going to go, but we don't know if it's going to be in the middle of the season or whatnot. But if we're envisioning a world, Kyle, in which he does for, hit the button, I want to be out by the trade deadline. Is there one team you're like, oh, that's the team?

I don't know that. I don't know that there's a team that, you know, when you're watching, the Spurs originally are the first place that your mind goes. If you're thinking in terms of, you know, there have been chatter about the Spurs thinking of Wimby as maybe we don't think about this as like a 15 year thing or I've, I'd heard some report. Is that even true? I mean, do you all, was that Intel Rock Solid? He doesn't want to go to the. No, no, that the. Spurs have kind of had a mindset of like maybe this isn't like a 15 year thing we're doing

Wemby. Maybe it is a little more condensed or? Well, literally what is a 15 year thing anymore? Well, that's true too. What can we afford to think that long about in any respect of life? I think a player of that caliber has not yet forced his way past, uh, or try to get out before the second contract hits. So at the very least they have that. Oh, I just mean health wise. Like they're just like, maybe this thing is finicky. But I don't, you watch, you watch them and you're just like, I don't, I don't know that they need to do that. I would rather keep my depth if I were them. The one that kind of makes sense for me is if he is going to be working in conjunction with the Bucks about getting something back, the Knicks are a horrible candidate for that. I've said that on this show over and over again.

I don't know why the Bucks would do that to themselves. The Hawks make a lot of sense, man. I mean, if they could, you could jump starts. You'd have to kind of figure out how that would work. The, like, Jalen Yannis, is Porzing is going to be in the deal? I wouldn't go there, but, I mean, you could really line up something here if you're saying, okay, we, get Trey, we get Dice and Daniels, and then just trying to make the money work. And then the thing, the most attractive asset, I think, in the entire landscape is in a really loaded draft, the 2026 draft, that Pelicans pick, man. I mean, if you can get a hold of that, you could jump start, you get Trey, you're going to get him on. I mean, consider it, you're not going to have to,

his market hasn't gone to the moon. Like, it's cooled. So if you could get that pick and get a swipe at somebody that could reset your whole franchise, I think that can make both worlds happy. And I think the Hawks would be pretty tough. I really did. I think the Hawks possibility makes the most sense. For all the reasons you just described in terms of the return for the bucks, I would love to see it just in terms of how Janus would fit in with that team. But if I'm Janus, I think I would want to go to Miami. Like, I think that would be the move.

And some of it is just, it has it always ended well there for the superstars who have come through the heat. But when you're thinking about your career is something that is like a collaborative stewardship, you know, this franchise does have not. not control of you, but of who plays with you and of, you know, what the roster looks like in the shape that it takes. I want a front office that is proven. They know how to not just like stack a contender, but then make the requisite move after

the move after the move after move. And then the creativity in terms of managing the cap and scouting talent to keep finding guys so that you don't get into a situation where you have to fucking wave and stretch Damien Lillard to get Miles Turner on the team because you're so backed into a corner. It's like, how do you maintain the flexibility and how, what franchises can you really trust? to do that and to help you manage your career. I think the heat of shown they can be that kind of organization. Yeah, I wonder where Janice's head is at in terms of picking his destinations.

Because I assume once the button gets pushed, he's going to have a lot of say over where he goes. I think the Bucks have almost said this, whether it's been reported or said outright. I think they're going to work with him just considering the sacrifices he's made over the past couple of years whenever they went out and got somebody good for him. The next thing worries me, though, where it's just like if you look at what they would have to give, you'd have to really kind of just strip mine that team of its essence in order to vault yourself onto it. And so like even if it was Brunson and Yanis, like, what's their left? Like, can you keep an OG? Can you keep a McAil? Like, how do you build something sensible from there?

I understand like it's New York and he's talked around the idea that like he likes the idea of big markets and also international players being around big markets. But I don't know. I'm a little worried that he might not have the best sense of like all the market forces that would be in play here. And so I agree with Rob. I think Miami makes a lot. lot of sense. And there's probably enough left over there where you would have a team in plus Miami on earths all these guys on the fringes and they'd

find rotation players. If it's not Miami, I would say Houston makes some sense, if only because there's going to be a lot left over or at least enough left over in order to make a good team from there. And also, like, they have the identity that I've kind of crafted already for myself and the bucks where it's like

defense, length, and just like smashing through all the wall sort of stuff. I like that as a fit. But again, do they have enough? Like, I'm going through the rockets. I'm like, am I going to give up Shengun? I don't know. Am I going to give up a men? That's, yeah. You don't like it organizationally. Well, I don't like an organization. Yeah. And then, I mean, I'm in, Schengun who's been healthy. He's been playing, this has been the best year of his career. It's been awesome. He fits with what they do, the personality of what they do. Like,

their cohesive personality is just fantastic. If you watch them together, I would be really, really hesitant to do that. I don't know that the rockets are in the business of really caring about what message that sends. That would be a big question, but I just don't know that I would go for that. My question with the heat is, who's in that deal? Because if you're honest and you're wanting to go to that team and be, do they demand hero?

Do they mean, is it what? I think hero would almost have to be in the deal. Is Bam in the deal? When they're going to Milwaukee or somewhere else. I think you hold on Bam, but everyone else is in part. Clowware is probably a chip in that deal. And then, yeah, then it's like draft compensation. and you're just hoping that the market is dry enough

and that Yannis kind of pushes the chips in that particular direction. If he's pushing his way there specifically, they could get a deal done, but you're right. Are they like on the top five of your suitors if like you had a list drawn up in the box problem? I think the thing I wonder with Yonis is he is a player who likes to be pushed and challenged

in particular ways. He's also a guy who's kind of of his basketball habits and I think has out a hard time branching out from them in part because of what the basketball situation has been in Milwaukee. It's like a lot of people want him to set more screens and play in different capacities. Like, well, look at the roster. Do I have to? Do you have to?

And who are you willing to do it for? And when I think about the heat, part of that equation to me is, I think Eric Spolster is one of the few coaches in the league who has the gravitas to ask Yanis to play a little bit differently. And I think mentally, again, because he is a guy who wants to be challenged, the heat have that culture of like, you come here and we will make you the best version of the player you can be. but in doing so we're going to push you further and harder than you've ever been pushed. And there is at least part of Janus that wants that, it seems like. See, I think that conversation's more about who's left over on the team who hold that superstar status that might push up against me because I think he's going to steamroll any coach who's there and I think he's proven that.

But the fact that he didn't really blend as much into dame as he probably should have in order to make that work considering he was pretty excited about that move, definitely signaled something to me. And so if I'm looking at teams, I'm like, I want to be the star. If I'm Yannis, I want to be the true blue star. And that's another problem with the Rockets where it's like. And the Knicks. And the Knicks.

I mean, Brunson and Yannis do work, but they're not the cleanest possible thing. No. A lot of pivots. A lot of, like, two guys who really want to get in the paint. And Brunson is a great shooter on top of that. So they could work. God, the free throws. There would be 50 between the two of them in the game.

It would be rough. But it would be off work. Miami fits the bill of close. We've talked on. on about how they have kind of played their hand really well in beginning of the season with Spolstra, you know, finding a way for them to play that works. Them pivoting to something that has a lot more optionality like Janus. I mean, they do fit the profile. I mean, Pat Riley has said, I know Bucks fans are very sensitive about how old we say Janus is. It's just he's not, he's closer to the end of

his prime than the beginning. I think that's fair. Can we agree on that, Buck's fans? He's not Kevin Durant to the sons at this point. Right. Well, I'm a little worried, just considering. considering how hard he plays, though. Sure. And it is... Doesn't come out of nowhere. Like, he gets these now multiple times a year. It is a play style, too, that doesn't have any kind of a counter that is, like, like,

Katie's been able to last because his technique and he can butter a lot of his bread going over the top of people and setting up. Yonis, it's a lot of abuse. It's a lot of getting in the lane. It's a lot of pivoting. You do just kind of, I'm not trying to wish his life away here and just wonder when he's going to get old, but I'm just like, you do kind of wonder how that ages because he's the best driving, you want to call him a five?

I think he's the best driving five of all time or risk driving four of all time, I would say, other than LeBron, right? I mean, because the best driving big of all time. Sure, we agree on that? Let's do it. So I just don't think we know really how to gauge how that is going to age,

and I think that's always just been a big part of the discussion for me. I mean, if he's right back into the first thing we were talking about, is like if you're trading for Janus, can you assure that he's going to be on the court for 70 games through his 30s? Well, no. And that's why I think teams, would be right to be hesitant. I think there's a lot of like apron fear mongering happening,

but I think this is like a real like repercussion of guys just not being out here. Yeah. I mean, look, the availability is what it is. I'm just like not at the point where I'm considering him a substantial injury risk. Yes, he picks up injuries. Yes, there have been seasons. He hasn't been able to finish.

He's yonis. Like overall, what you're getting from him to me completely outweighs the concern about like, will he pick up this or that? Will he be absent 15 games in the season? I'm willing to tolerate all of that stuff if it means getting Yannas Hunter de Kumpo on my team Should we start going with you by one name?

Just so I can say he's Robbie, you know? I'm not Robbie. Mahone? No. Definitely not Robbie. That's not. I mean, look, I'm not a full name type though. Bologna Mahoney, I like that one.

You know, there's some guys who it's like you have to say both names in concert. Kyle Mann. Kyle Mann is kind of one of these. I was the first last name guy in college. Yeah. He had to call me. I mean, has that make you feel? Do you feel like you're off to the side?

Do you feel alienated by being a first and last guy? I always said I wish I had one of those really musical pretty names, but I just don't. Where did Janus rank on the top 100 at this past time? He tends to stick in the top five range. I think he's three or four. I believe so. I think Luca might be three at this point. That's kind of the conversation with him is the Luca Janus.

It's Yokic and Shea up top, and then it's Luca and Janus kind of in those next spots. We're not allowed to look at one and two at all, or we'll be just sent to the Gulag. Number three on the list here related to this. So if Janus isn't in play, who's the next guy? Who's like the next star or just most interesting guy to you guys who would be realistically on the move in this season? It still has to be Anthony Davis, right? Just in terms of the best player who could conceivably be traded.

You know, if you want to just go straight down the ringer top 100, he's probably the next best guy who might be moved. not the most interesting answer to your point, Justin, but if 80 is available, he can change things for a lot of teams. I think you have to tip your hat to that. I mean, I just found myself circling this group of players who,

the younger players who have hit these skids of either the trouble like John Memphis has had in terms of on and off court, fitting into what they're trying to do, whatever it is, just trying to pick a direction for them as a franchise. Obviously, Zion, these guys who just, I think they're interesting. Davis is more of a question of, you know, if you get him, he's going to impact winning directly.

These are guys of like, okay, this could be a total, you know, makeover for their career, like go another direction. That's kind of the group that I've been kind of circling in terms of the more interesting. But I don't, I don't know. Do you think either one of those guys could change, or even a lamello ball could change which among those three, La Mello Ball, Jha, or Zion Williamson, could change teams at this deadline and impact the title conversation? Is that even in play? I think Lamello jumps out to me if only because if you just solve for his injury concerns, then we might be in a different ballpark all of a sudden.

Sure. Because you could deal with the loosey-goosiness that just comes with the territory. But I'll take the good stuff as long as he's on the court for 70 games. I don't know how you can assure that. But the other guys are a little bit dicer. Zion doesn't play. Yeah. And Jod doesn't play enough at this point.

And so, like, if we're just stacking them based on availability, like, give me Lamello. I'm a full on the mellow booster and even I have to admit the loosey-goosiness has really tested my patience. Too goose. A little too much loose on that goose. Okay.

Yes, I agree. It's been tough. Like, he just hasn't had the same like comprehensive impact on winning with the Hornets that we've seen in some of his better seasons. You know, in terms of the splits, in terms of the impact on his teammates,

in terms of, God forbid, anything resembling shooting efficiency which has not really been there for him this year. I think we would be remiss not to mention that John Morant for the vast majority of his career has been a 50 win machine. And he is the source of so many problems with the Grizzlies. But in terms of, to your question, Kyle, who actually moves a title race in any way? You put John Morant on a run-of-the-mill Eastern Conference team and they just start winning regular season games if he is healthy and available to play. That to me feels more tangible than anything Lamello has done and certainly anything.

that Zion is done. Here's my question with Jha. Do you have five backup point guards in order to soak up all the minutes that he's in the Zah? Even the grisies have shown that's not enough. Yeah. It's true. But yeah, I think there is somewhere deep within Jha

a team like Miami that can give him structure that might help. I don't know. I still think Lamello has another chapter. He'd be going to play the style he got mad about, so that would be a problem too. Yeah. It's true.

But circling back to AD though, yeah. I've kind of talked myself into the idea that they can't trade him. because any team that's going to trade for him is going to sell the Mavs on this version of him that's just like, they'll just give him nothing for. But they just did that with Luca Dantitch. Well, they were thrilled about it.

We're working in a more realistic scenario, even if our realistic scenario is fake and that one is actually real. Oddly true. But like if you're the Bulls or any of these teams that can trade for AD at this point and you're willing to work through the injury stuff and all that, you're not going to give anything up of value.

And so if you're the Mavs, you're probably fine just keeping him around, if only because of this far off fantasy of him playing with Kyrie and Flag. And the maths have been fine. We talked about him a couple podcasts ago, as currently structured with a real point guard in order to set people up,

they're fine. They might make a playing push. They're right in that mix right now. Totally fine. You just don't have to do something. And then you deal with the extension concerns over the office because AD is extension eligible and it seems like he wants that as soon as possible.

So I don't know. I just don't see ADE. going anywhere. They definitely shouldn't do it just because. Like trading Anthony Davis because you feel some nebulous push from within yourself that you have to do it is complete trash. Do not do that. The questions for me are what West team starts slipping in the standings to the point that they get nervous? And then it's not a conversation about, oh, we're trading for this flawed version of Anthony Davis. It's we need the Anthony Davis who will save our season. We need the Anthony Davis who will like stick, like put us in the ground where we are not drifting down

in a really competitive conference. Or if you want to flip it to the East, it's like who in the East shows enough that their front office is like, given the opening here, we are one Anthony Davis away from really making a hard push at the Knicks, at the Pistons,

at whoever you see as being at the top of the conference. I think there are enough factors in play that could make Anthony Davis feel like even more of a vital asset, given all of the complications in injury history than just like as compromised goods. I think the Celtics could make a run at Anthony Davis?

They could. it's tough to unspool their top three. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like if you want to talk Jalen, like then you can get into some interesting scenarios, but yeah. I wouldn't at this point.

Yeah. He's an all-MBA guy this season. It's money to money, yeah, with him and with Tatum and Brown, but you'd have to, I mean, you could go White Simons. Yeah. It's not, it's, yeah. Also, AD said some pretty bad things about Boston the last time. That's true.

Or his dad did. Yeah. Yeah. Which I'm sure he wasn't talking to his son at that point, you know. Dad's in the media. Complicated business. If Aange were there, he wouldn't care. He'd do it.

80's dad has a long history of saying some wild shit. Let me tell you. Well, I think you have the right idea with the East thing. Like, who's going to sense the opportunity? And one thing I wonder is if Lori Marken isn't going to go. And it seems like at this point, the jazz might be too good. We're at this point of the year where it's like jazz won too many games. I guess they're fucked and they just have to eat it.

They know how to fix that. They do it every time. It didn't get good enough last year. But if they hold on to Lori and they just say he's too good or we're too good or we're too good. whatever it might be. I do wonder if teams start calling around about MPJ and noticing that he's like a borderline all-star at this point. And so I have him down here.

So, yeah, I want to talk about this exact same conundrum with our next prompt. So can we just segue straight into it if you don't mind? Sure, yes. You wanted to talk about which sad sack franchise you should take advantage of the demand and sell off their stars. You're going to skip the pun there?

The pawn you tabbed his misery business at the top, which I appreciate your little nod to me and to Steph and to Haley Williams. Ms. Biz, as we know it. I didn't even know. Is that a reference to a Paramour song? It was mostly a Haley record. It was for her.

I don't care. I see what you're doing. I see you making the play. She's in the ringer network, you know? She is part of the ringer galaxy of stars completely. But yeah, I think. In the same way that I'm great friends with Amy Poller. Yes.

Close personal friends with Amy Poller. If the Janus market doesn't go as anticipated, those are teams who have all their ducks in a row who are ready to do something, who in some cases will need to do something, or at least have the strong want to do it. And they're eyeing power forward specifically. And so will they take those same assets, or not exactly, but some combination of them,

to the jazz and say, Lowry marketing isn't Janus, but we need something at the Ford different than what we have. And if that doesn't work, then do you go to MPJ, as you're saying, who has been quite good? And I think both those guys, especially, Lowry and MPJ, just have such clear utility to winning teams. We've seen it with both of them.

We've seen them fill into these slots and their shooting and their impact and their size. be just such a real factor. Yeah. And so with them on the board, like, I think Utah should absolutely consider it. We've been nudging them in that direction for a long time.

I think the Nets for as well as MPJ has played should definitely look at trying to flip him even a further step down the line, despite how well he's played. We've talked a lot about Lowry with, with the Pistons. What about MPJ with the Pistons? I just thought this in the moment.

I mean, you could go Ron Holland, Tobias Harris, expiring, and then, I don't know, like, was that, what is that? The money's close. You could get there. Here's what a cool guy I am. On a Saturday night in Los Angeles. One of the most happening cities, as Rob knows,

because he's out in the town, just shaking hands and kissing babies. I don't think they like that here. I don't think they want any of that. Well, you're doing it anyway. I was thinking to myself, is MPJ given all of the history, the injury history in particular, like, is he enough of an upgrade over what you have with Tobias Harris that you'd be willing to trade real stuff to get it?

What is the real stuff? Well, like a Ron Holland or just future draft picks or like maybe even a Jaden Ivy. I could stop you right there. In terms of shot making, I mean, it's a significant upgrade in a way. And the Pistons are a team that just keep like recurring for me in this in this exercise of who's desperate, who's sad, it's just the bleak. We're just going through the bleak and the desperate, the soap opera of the NBA at the bottom. And if you look at them, the Pistons are the team where I'm like, if you look at like really basketball-wise,

who could stand to do it if they want to be serious. Getting MPJ in there, granted, he's not as dynamic a player but he's had experience playing off the ball with the best off ball utilizer in the world with Yokic. Cade is going to find, would find him. I just think that would be an interesting if you can't get Lowry,

you're getting a guy who's big and is just as good, better, like in terms of a shot maker? I think that's the difference right there. Lowry probably changes your offense and involves it in a way that's probably more interesting and more dynamic. MPJ is just like the absolute best version. of what you have with Tobias.

And I think that happens in a couple of different ways. Yes, just the shot making four size is elite in the history of the game. Also with that is so good at hitting contested threes in particular. And so, yeah, even though you're not rewiring everything you do offensively, just having the extra like gap of time where he can get a clean shot off off of what is a routine pass for Kate Cunningham, that now turns into a great look. And by giving it to MPJ instead of Tobias Harris, that makes it an even greater look. I think there are these tradeoffs with the pistons that still make a lot of sense,

especially if you're getting that kind of size back. Where I get nervous with Detroit is, we want to trade Tobias and Ron Holland and some other combination of picks for a wing, for someone who doesn't have actual power forward size. I get a little dicey about that given some of the guys they're going to have to battle with in the playoffs. Not really a problem with Lowry, not really a problem with MPJ. I think they're completely worthy candidates even for a great Eastern Conference team. He's ratcheted up the volume this year.

He's at like nine a game on threes. the efficiency hasn't slumped at all. No. Like in terms of like high volume three point shooting, it's Steph, Maxi, Mitchell, and MPJ. So nine field goal attempts, 39% from three, arbitrary end points.

But he's been successful. He does have the green light in Brooklyn in a way that he wouldn't have in a trip, but he just would cycle back into what he was alongside Yokic. Like so it works. The one, the one sticking point is just the injuries and long-term success. Did you guys know that MPJ has something called foot drop?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'd never seen the brace that he wears. it's pretty intense. And I saw a photo of it, it's like scary. Yeah. And like you think just because it's more of a back thing, but he's learned to live with it in a way that's been really surprising.

Apparently he's had it for years. Yeah. He got, I think it was after his back stuff started to clear up, it was all just kind of. And once he's just, he had a series of events. I've been really amazed that he's been able. And I know, we joked a lot in the off season. I know I joel. I always love making a good MPJ joke about how he inoculates you from, from stagnant offense and things. But he has been really, really effective. Thinking about this deal, though, like this potential deal, they would want Ivy if they were going to do that.

I don't think it would be Holland, right? It would be like I would want something with some upside play like Ivy and then I'd want a pick or, you know, we'll take the dead salary and get a pick and then get a promising player like Ivy potentially. Especially if you're talking about the Nets, just like pawning stuff off just to do it, just because the market lends itself to it,

you're not going to do it just for Ron Holland and salary filler. It's just not enough. Which is saying something because they got the juicy future Denver pick, which is probably going to be a post-yokage pick. Yeah. Plus stuff on top of that. This is the deal that keeps on giving. Do you have a team for this one?

The Sad Sack franchise who could take advantage of the demand and sell off a star? Well, I thought that when you said Sad SAC, you were saying like Sad SAC, like Sacramento, because, I mean, the saddest team, the saddest team that ever was, folks. Yeah. I mean, the team, DeMontos is only 29 years old. He feels way older than the same. that, but he's still got some, there's still some, uh, there's still some tread on those tires. Being in Sacramento does age a man. It just, it really puts you through it. Or kill a man. A lot of

serial killers from there. Uh, if you're looking at, if you're just looking at their options, I was looking across the league. Um, I don't know. I was, I was thinking about these teams that have kind of skill on the perimeter that could use a little bit of connectivity. I was like, Phoenix could be interesting. If you could get, uh, I was like Jalen and maybe, would you trade a first for some bonus at this point in his life? If I were Phoenix. Yeah. No. Yeah. I was just trying to think of a team that had some skill like that that could be unlocked.

Grizzlies, I was like, yeah, maybe, maybe. And also, Edy had been so good before he got hurt. But like I was telling you all, yeah, like, Edy at this point, we're just like, I think we're reaching like, is this? I'm starting to get kind of nervous about this because this is like one after, one injury after another directed by Isaac Eadie at this point. It's very true. It's tough.

But I don't, Subonis was somebody that came to mind for me across the league, a team that he's got something to give someone. I guess it's just a matter what are you willing to give up for him like you were saying. I could just never find a fit for him. I guess Chicago, if they really want to just like take him for nothing.

But he's got two more years on his deal. You'd imagine he wants an extension on top of that. He cannot be allowed to be a Chicago Bowl. I mean, non-shooter with giddy. We said that enough. This is what I'm saying. Those are just,

yeah, those are batteries that are repelling. That doesn't work. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up there because I just, I can never find the right fit for him because you're sacrificing so much defensively as the Kings know way too well, as the Pacers know way too well.

And so I just don't know how to fit him into the right front court of a team that has any sort of aspirations for the immediate. I still think Charlotte makes some sense. I thought about them. And some of it is like, again, Sabon is having the half court facility that then lends itself to Lamello being up and down and erratic and doing all the kind of exploratory shit that he does. Like if Sabonis is holding everything together, I just have more lenience with everything the Lamello wants to explore. And so I think that balance, like, they have a partnership that would be very unconventional, would be quite strange, but I think it could also kind of work. It just depends on what would you entice the Kings with to functionally blow up the best thing they have going. Right.

If I'm Charlotte, I don't punt on having rim protection for the next couple years next to Knieppel and my future for the stopgap solution. But that depends on if you see Ryan Cockbrenner as like a real actual multi-year center option. It's a big. Sure. It's a big cock. And he could... Jesus Christ. And he could still be behind De Manasabonis as well, or Musa Diabate, we should say, like, also

in this mix as well. Pretty good. Well, since we're talking about Center, we should do mine, I have Jaron Jackson Jr. down here. Okay. I'm just wondering more and more if, like, this is a full scale rebuild at this point. If you are kind of accepting the idea that we've lost our North Star, that job will never get back to what he was, at least when he's here and probably not in totality. Like, where does Jackson fit in there?

very disappointing season, just kind of silently in the background of all the noise of Jha. Now, he was injured going into the season that might play a factor in it. They did move away from the offense that kind of really seemed to unlock him. So there are a lot of factors here. And he just seems like a good guy who wants to be there. They just like renegotiated and extended him last season. At the same time, like, can we get a barrel stuff if we just kind of move on for this guy now? Because I think he would have a lot of suitors.

We talked about the Spurs, for instance. like if you can pay less for a center next to Janus, like does Jaron Wemby make some sense in a different way? That's kind of duplicative though. Okay. You don't, it doesn't tug on the hard strings that you can go back to where his ad plate? I mean,

that doesn't factor in your trade analysis. Maybe it should. Call it in. Maybe I'm being too cold about it. But yeah, I think the idea of like who you want with Wembe is not necessarily a Jaron Jackson type. Okay.

But what about in general? You guys open to the idea of moving. Jaron, certainly. I mean, why would you look at the Grizzlies and feel like, oh, anything happening here? We can't break this up. It's in our job. It's beyond the pale to even talk about trading Jaron Jackson. But that's like, that's the difference from what we were saying in the Austin's where it's like, oh, this might be just a half measure, the Bain trade in order to get to what might come later. They could just retool and not rebuild. Well, I think Jod detonated the half-backer. When we've worked, when I mentioned that, I think I mentioned it even in a passing

when we were listing off the potential fits with Queen, that really intrigued me. And it's just kind of a question of. Trade more picks. Well, you're in New Orleans. What could you get? Yeah, I mean, they've got some. It's just what do you after if you're the Grizzlies? Are you after more after future for Lane? Or is there somebody, because they do have a couple of wings here. I mean, I'm just

trying to think of. I'm open to anything if I'm at this point. Just give me the carrot, like the one blue chip asset. And I think you're trying to just punt everything down the line. You're just trying to stretch out your time horizon, get as much young talent or picks as you can. Because otherwise, there's not going to be a quick pivot off at Jaron Jackson.

in trade, I don't think. Yeah, because you're looking at the, I mean, New Orleans owns their own firsts through 28 through 31. I mean, you could go after that, that you'd have to be naive if you were the Pelicans and you're closer than, than you are. Yeah. I just think there's an opportunity to be a seller here. And if Memphis, which tends to be a little bit more forward-looking than a lot of

organizations, less precious, about certain things, I can see it. Why don't we go to our next question? Number five, team that needs to make a deal the most. I have Detroit actually down here. So we talked about them already, so we don't need to belabor it. But like, Tatum's coming back next year. Or maybe this year, we'll see. And right now, the only team that scares me in the East is the Knicks, and I think they're beatable.

This is not like some Goliath that you can't push through. We have to hold on. If I find a deal, if I'm Detroit, that keeps me on the same timeline doesn't, like, limit my window. I'm doing it because there's a real opportunity. But even there, you just didn't, if I find a deal. We're talking about who, like, needs to make a trade. Do the Detroit citizens need to make a trade? If they did nothing between today and the deadline,

they're still one of the best teams in the East and might win the Eastern Conference. I guess it depends on how much emphasis you put on need. If it's a lot. If they need. But if it's a need, I think it's not. I don't know.

You need to do it out. Well, I mean, if we, let's imagine even, like, taking a step backwards and saying, like, they do when a deal, like, a Lowry or an MPJ type of thing, where, like, realistically, if we, like, imagine what that would be in a playoff series. Would they beat the Knicks? I mean, I felt like the additional ball handling, we mentioned Truder last year. I was like, I feel like that was one of the things, too, that really helped them get over the hump and that.

And then I'm just trying to think or be really, really competitive in that series. Yeah, if you deal Ivy, like, you're counting on some of the backup guys, the Jenkins, the Sassers, in order to be rotation guys. And that's tough. I'm just like, I don't know that they're going to quite get there as much as I love the idea. Yeah. But I do. It just depends on how. how pressed you're feeling

in this situation where the East has been such a mess. I want them to make a move. It might be more want than need. Yeah, I'm just like, yeah. I think if they're going to be, it'd just be close, I think, at best, if you're the Pistons and you're thinking about this year,

like you were talking about, I'm coming back. I mean, one piece of this, that's like not insignificant, but probably doesn't, it should not govern the Pistons thinking. If you are giving up ball handlers, it's not just Jenkins and Sasser.

Karislavert has quietly been like quite good. And I don't know how I feel about Karas Levert being quite good in November, December, being the governing principle that will lead me to trade away other ball handlers and hope that he is in May and June. But I think he has at least come onto the radar as a more significant piece of that team than certainly I expected coming in and I think he deserves some recognition for that. I think the bigger thing is their bench had a defensive possession against the Hawks the other day. I don't know if you guys seen this highlight where they

forced a turnover, shot clock violation. And like, everyone in the arena fucking loved it. The bench loved it. The crowd loved it. And that's a crowd that hasn't allowed to cheer for a while. And I was like, God damn, do we really want to disrupt the good vibes here? That's the one thing. It seems like they have something collectively

an identity, a spirit that I don't know if you'd want to mess with. But how do we, here's what any team should do. If you want to cultivate that kind of defensive identity, but you can't get the real deal Detroit Pistons, organic juice. let's do the Chick-fil-A sandwich giveaway for 24-second violations.

Like, don't make it free throws. Don't make it a random game of chance. Like, this is a real thing. And as it gets closer to zero, that place is going to set on fire for chicken. I love it. You know what? We do what we got to do.

If we need to put our finger on, like, the lever a little bit and just pull it ever so slightly to get the energy in the building, I think you should do it. Let's get those dancing cows out there immediately. Come on. Who do you have for this one? Team that needs to make a deal of most?

I had the Pistons. I have, I mean, the wolves are a team that I think I was, I was alluding to this earlier that, you know, you have this defense that is solid that you can lean on. And it's the Dillingham experiment. I mean, he was out there the other night and looked okay, as much as it hurts me to say. And then Colin is not up to the challenge. They're a team that I would be looking at to, because it does kind of feel like they're still in the conversation. I mean, if we're talking about in a playoff series, if they could get a steady ball handler, I mean, they invested a lot in this Gobert thing. So I think if you're talking about who needs to do something? I mean, in that sense, they do. So, yeah, they're a team, and, you know, Reynolds's not getting any younger. I think you've got this thing that is moving forward that if you could bolster it, I think you've got a shot.

I'm surprised Dillingham played when you watched. What an absolute just catastrophe. Is it that bad at this point? It's been pretty bad. I have them listed down. So our next question is the by-low guys. I have him listed down there, if only because I want him to go somewhere else

where he can play minutes. Because I just don't get it. I don't see how a team that's built around defense can force his size into what they do in order for him to play through some of his mistakes. Well, it would be easier if the offense were better. Like, if it were just an offense, that's been the most, that's been the most shocking thing for me is that he was offensively was just so good at every other level of play. And it's just not, just hasn't translated. He looks like a shot maker, but not a pure shooter a lot of times. And he's not, he's somebody that wants to score and

he's not a pure facilitator. So you see, you end up with this, this kind of wishy-washy thing that also can't play defense. And that just doesn't work for them. Like, he's not, He's not a steady metronome player, like a younger Mike Connolly might be. Older Mike Connolly's just not prepared to do it at the volume that they need him to do it. So I do think, I do think that they, if they're going to capitalize on this window, they're going to have to figure something out. And Dillingham might be a part of it. Yeah.

Who do you have for team that needs to make the deal? The Cleveland Cavaliers. All those same reasons you kind of laid out just in terms of the East being up for grabs and the ticking clock here. I think the difference between them and the Pistons is everything feels bad with the calves, all the time. Like the record is okay, but ultimately, like, the look and feel of the team

is not great. Everything, when you watch them play, everything feels like it's going uphill. And they've lost to me so much of the connectivity that made them so good last season. And they've had guys in and out of the lineup.

I don't want to just gloss over that. That's a real thing in terms of affecting the dynamics and the flow of the team and the offense specifically. But in particular, I would say the Darius Garland, Donovan Mitchell combination,

has looked untrue. tenable defensively. And especially when only one big has been out there with Jared Allen out of the mix, just doesn't look like a group that can work together and that has the balance that you would need to really compete, much less contend in the Eastern Conference. They're lost at sea. I don't know what happened over the past year. Maybe just like hitting your head in the playoffs too many times, just like completely

through them. I don't know how do you unspool that would be my counter there where it's like, it seems like they need a wholesale change in order to like re-energize what they lost. That's the kind of trade. we're talking about is is like real significant stuff. Yeah. Whether Garland or Allen or both or something, it's to the point where they even just turned up Jalen Tyson,

who's been a good rotation player for them, and it means nothing. It's made no difference. It's by the fact that he's a good player having a nice season. Yeah. I don't know how you take a step back, though, Kyle, because if it's, let's say you just prioritize Mitchell and Mowgli and just figure out the rest, like, is Mitchell going to be a long for the ride of figuring this thing out?

three years, 46.3. Yeah, and he's going to be turning 30 next year. I'm just kind of, they do kind of feel under the gun here. If you're going to bet on Mitchell, it does kind of make it seem like an immediate thing is going to be the way to go. He's so good. He's been great. He's incredible. Again, it's like, it's all tough for him because of the circumstances, but that dude can put up damn near 50. Like, there just aren't enough guys in the league doing that to the point where I would feel very reluctant to part with him. You'd like to see it easier for him, but he has shown time and time again that that's the way he wants to play.

He wants to play spread pick and roll and he wants to, and it's, I don't know, are you going to get, because we're sitting here looking at him and Garland together and you're like, this makes, you could see on paper, I feel like I've been wringing my hands for the past few years about this,

like why it doesn't work together, the two of them, moving in split action together, moving in just whatever it is, and it just never has quite gotten there. I was trying to, the Garland thing is hard too because of how much money he makes.

It's like how, I was like, well, Timberwolves maybe, but you can't. Yeah. There's no way that you can. make that work because he makes too much money. Thank God he's had some okay games lately because Darius Garland has had, I would say, a disastrous

season coming back from injury and like trying to find his footing again. Rob Dillingham levels of efficiency from a guy who has been like is a really great playmaker and is one of the league's best shooters despite what he has shown us lately. Yeah. And the one excuse coming out of last

postseason was well they didn't have Garland to set everybody up in that postseason match up with the Pacers. But I was back and I think they were out of You're shooting 35% from the field, 27% from three for Darry to Scarland this season. And the signs of life are nice. I just don't know that I'm ready to believe them until he can be that for weeks on end, which is exactly what the cabs need right now.

Are we overreacting, though, a little bit, though. To which part? Well, I mean, it's like. The entire podcast. Jared Allen, Sam, Sam, Merrill, Max Trues. Those add a lot of kind of gravitational rhythm to your offense, which the absence of which would just fall onto hard mode, Donovan Mitchell. drummer extraordinaire.

It's hard for him to get into a rhythm if those pieces aren't there. I don't know. I'm just kind of like, is there a little bit, is there a pinch of wait and see that needs to go in the stew a little bit? I mean, aren't the calves? They've been writing on wait and see

for three years, just kind of waiting for this thing to coalesce. I think it has to a degree. We've seen it. We've also seen them cap out with that, more or less, that formula. I think if Mitchell and Garland were playing better together with one big

and Mowblius had to fill that role a lot recently. I would feel like, okay, there's something here. They have that flexibility. They're going to work Allen back, and the team is going to kind of find its equilibrium. But they can't really work that way. Like those lineups are disaster defensively,

like with the two guards on the floor together with one big. You put Mobley out there. We've seen the way that can be kind of stodgy offensively, especially in the playoffs, even with the rhythm that they had last season. So I just don't believe in what they're doing. And I watch them play. I'm like, I don't think these guys believe in what they're doing.

It was a bad harbinger when Alan had a few. finger injury and decided to play through it. But then he had a finger injury on the other hand. It's just like, it's like, how bad can this get? All right, let's go to our last question here. Number six, the by-low player, you're eyeing, who could use a change of scenery. You're a bi-low guy. I try to be.

You like to get a bargain. I'm working the market, you know? You like a little T.J. Max? Yeah. Zach Loeb is merging T. T.J. Max really upset me. What did he said? He said crap for sale.

That's what he called T. Wow. Well, you know, the Sean Kemp. Jersey I picked up as a fourth grader says otherwise, you know. He struck me as a Maxenista, though. That's surprising. Maybe he's a Ross guy. I immediately hit him up and was like, how dare you? I don't know. You got to go through, you thumb through the racks. You see what's in there.

That's the whole point, man. That's true. Yeah, I'm trying to buy, I'm trying to maximize shareholder value every chance I get. That's what life's all about, baby. Who do you have for this one? I don't know what this says about me, but I still want to believe that Zach Levine can be a good player on a good team somewhere. I'm the Walter White meme hitting the car window. Nah! I just...

He's such a great shooter. He's great in movement. I'm just like waiting for the chance for everyone to see it in a way that makes sense for somebody. The problem is he gets paid a fuck ton of money in a way that's really hard to justify the gamble of doing it. He's also at a weird place where the teams that you would think could most use him, which would be good defensive teams that need the scoring and the spacing, a lot of those teams are the teams we were talking about earlier. Teams like Thunder and the Spurs

or teams that are just really spoken for at Shooting Guard and don't necessarily need a Zach Levine in their lives. So I don't even know how you engineer a trade that gets to my dream, but I still hold the dream and I'm going to continue to. If Derek White is the plus minus God, is Zach Levine like the plus minus just devil, I guess?

Satan. See, I think he's been besmirched. Oh. I think you got to dig through the noise for that delicate little flicker of a signal in there. He's kind of the Lord, more the Lord of Light. He's cruel and indifferent at times, and you're like, what is it going out? You know, there's no, like, we're watching over you.

He's just a chaos agent doing whatever he wants to do. People may die, you know, and I know. They have. Listen, it looks great. When he's out there, the shot is gorgeous, when he has his legs underneath them. He makes $47.4 million. How are you going to, who? Aaron lies the problem.

I will say this. There's only one more year left, and that would be the upside. So if you're like Dallas or someone who can stuff that into your books and just get off another contract, I think they would be one of those dances. This is why it's probably not going to happen this year. Yes. But since you mentioned Levine, I also have a king down here, but also with contractual issues. I have Malik Monk who like played nine minutes against the Pacers the other night. What's going on with that?

I don't understand. They just don't like playing guys. And in particular, they're good productive players because Monk does something very well. And he has done that for King's past. and I can't see why he can't do that again. I don't get it. And trading him, unfortunately, is a little difficult because he has two more years in the 20s

still on his contract. And as we've seen, teams are kind of, there's no country for small scoring guards anymore, especially young guys who make a lot of money. And so he's the exact type of player that I think teams are shying away from. But I want to see good things for him

because he could galvanize a bench unit, like a few others in the league. I think the pace and space movement, I've thought a lot about this, where the pace and space move, it really shot to the moon. And we had that moment where, like, before the defense, like, the defensive officiating shifted back where it really served players like Malik Munk that kind of could get out and move around, don't touch them, you know, they're just like the wispy latherer

kind of scores kind of thing. And I really feel like the shift the other way has hurt. I haven't studied this, like, scientifically, but I feel like it's hurt players like Malik Munk, where it's like he's not super, I'm just trying to, is he, is there a team out there? I was thinking, if you're the Rockets, could you go get Malik Monk in a cheap way, but you'd be adding defensive. You'd probably be like a second unit kind of a play, right?

Just to add a little bit of a punch because you couldn't play them with your first unit a tonne. Like, thinking of the wolves again, probably not the Pissons, but we're talking about teams that are close and not necessarily somebody just off the radar that would make that move desperate for a reason unforeseen. Yes. I just find it very generous of you

to prescribe that much meaning and philosophy to whatever it is that Doug Christie is doing on a deal. basis. I just have no idea what is governing the rotation decisions for the Kings in general. Who plays and who doesn't? Kian Ellis is in the doghouse. No, he's back. Now Malik Munk is in the dog. I's like that space needs to be occupied by somebody

clearly at all times. And I don't know why one guy is in favor and one guy is not. I think he just prioritizes being a grinder way too much because he was one. I think Keanu Ellis would be playing 40 minutes. I know, I know. That's true. But this is the problem with certain coaches, though. I do feel like they want the rest of their team to take on their identity when they played and oftentimes that's not what you want your best most skilled players to have

so do you have anyone for this one talk about a fucking vibe shift for the kings i just it's just unbelievable man like god it just such a short time he was a part of something that was working um i was looking at just some young guys it's been kind of fun he was this was never my guy this was never my dude i never was really a huge fan of jeras walker but uh somebody out there that sees him and think because i'll hear people talk about him and they'll be like there it is i knew the whole time. Which gives me an idea that in that sample size, there are believers out there that might take a swing on him.

Obviously, Kaminga, there are like ball knowers, real hooper people out. It's always real hooper people who think Kaminga is not showing something that evil Steve Kerr is just like punishing him for no reason. Kobe White's another one, I think. I feel like Kobe White, when he came back, I just feel like the tilt in his game didn't really serve them. I'm not saying he's like responsible for why the bulls went on a slide. But he's somebody that I think in a new home could kind of find a new lease on.

live. I mean, I am one of the aforementioned Jarris Walker guys. Oh, shit. Did you want to like assault me right now? Go ahead. It's in arguable at this point. It just like has not worked. I just think we all have our Pat Williams is, you know? We all have these holes that we fall into. There's similar players.

For whatever reason, I could not get on board Pat Williams, but I see Jarrett Walker. I'm like, you know what? Look at that body. I think it's just a matter of like how much patience you want to, like, how patient you want to be at the process of those guys coming along. I've been very patient with Jaris Walker. He's gotten

lots of opportunity at this point to prove that he's a good NBA player. Well, if we're buying low, you know? No, I'm not buying at all. No, you're out. I was never in. I think you were one of the few. I saw, like, I mean, the fact that they weren't able to play him gave him some credence to the idea that, like,

there's something untapped here. But now that he's playing much. Yeah. Not a lot of mystery in Jerry's. But Kobe White, though. Kobe White is good. It is funny. I do wonder if you can convince the Bulls that they're blaming him for all of their malaise right now when this was, I think, predicted by all of us. But since he came back, it does feel like things have time to,

they just can't figure it out now. All of us, huh? Most of us. Are you inclusive in this? I believe. That's not what I'm saying. Okay. All right.

This is a little rich, a little rich of an all of us declaration coming from you. I just want to have fun, you know? I believe it. And the bulls are my type of fun. For the people not watching on video, Justin just looked at the standings to see how far the bulls had plummeted. I was like, you know what? Just to be clear.

Just to be clear, we started the podcast with Justin describing a miserable TSA situation that he would choose. And then says, I just want to have fun and talk about the Bulls. The Bulls do it the hard way. Just saying. That is for sure. Yeah. But no, I could see White. White needs a new home.

He's good. He's a good player. I think we would have said he might be their best player going into this season. Yeah. And so, yeah. Really? Like, their best all around. I think it depends.

Really? What would you say, giddy? Giddy, yeah. Well, this is the thing. You put, when you make. Josh Giddy your best player. You put in all the restrictions that come with playing Josh Giddy basketball.

Kobe White can kind of play anything. They played fine together last year. Yeah. At the end of last year. And yet. Chusha. But no, that's a good one. I think for a team that just needs juice,

and I think he's an expiring contract right now. And so you'd have to pay him. That's the problem with all this. God damn aprons. Too many aprons. Why do we have to pay these guys? I just don't understand. I know.

Can't they just do this for the level of the game? I know. Like us? we don't get paid. Yeah, I'm not being paid. No. All right, why don't we wrap it there? We'll be back Wednesday and Thursday.

Oh, what's going on there? A little double-dip action. We're going to do our, well, we won't give it away just yet. You'll see it on Wednesday, but there's going to be a two-part or big old thing where we're going to talk about every team in the NBA, all 30 teams, including the Chicago Bulls for longer than you expect, but it'll be nice. We're going to do that. We're going to talk about cut final on Wednesday. Anything else? Maybe you're whatever you're doing in L.A.

I think that's enough. You go into Bobbs in order to get some new costume work. I have no idea what you're talking about. What's Bob's? What? Bob's is a part of my life. It's a good, good feeling on a Saturday night. Bob's is like a discount clothing store.

You guys didn't have that? No. Okay. Oh, no. I'm not in the streets like you are. Thank you to Victoria, months. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz.

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