The Ringer NBA Show - Wemby Wants the MVP! | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 24, 2026

Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck are back with another edition of Real Ones and jump right into Victor Wembanyama’s comments about his MVP candidacy following the Spurs victory over the Miami Heat on Monday night. Just how close is the race between Wemby and the other candidates, and did he purposely mention beating the Thunder during the regular season to send them a message with the playoffs coming up? Plus, Houston has a problem that hasn’t been solved all season. Can their issues be resolved, or is it too late? (0:00) Intro (2:28) Wemby makes MVP case (14:26)  What’s up with the Rockets? (24:58) Fan Duel ad break (26:15) Mens Wearhouse ad break (26:50) Bucks waive G Cam Thomas (38:34) Mailbag Hosts: Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck Producers: Victoria Valencia and Clifford Augustin Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz and Conor Nevins Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] When you need your fit to deliver, we’ve got you. Shop Men's Wearhouse.  The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Was Poppin, Real was Logan Murdoch here, Howard Beck, and a few along with Raj and Bell. And we got to do a great conversation about a lot of different things. Victor Wemidiyama trying to put his bid in for MVP, both on the court and in the press area. I was trying to put his bid in. That was interesting. And just to think about what players do to get the MVP and the politics that is required to do so. So that was fun. Then we talk about what the hell is going on with the Houston Rockets,

pour out a little liquor for Cam Thomas. Then we answer your mailback question. So it's a really, really fun episode. Roomonesmailback at gmail.com, real onesmail back at gmail.com, real onesmail back at gmail.com. And we'll see you guys soon for now. Clip.

Play the music. Logan Murdoch here. Roger Bell there. Howard Beck over there. I'm sorry to all our Netflix. People are expecting pristine. video from me. I'm on

location somewhere. I apologize. Okay, you know, I'll be back on Friday in the normal setup. Okay, this will happen again. I apologize. I feel like I need to apologize because I don't have, you know, right, Ransion? No. Not apologizing. Shit.

Okay. We got all downgrade today. Yeah, you can. Let's just go low-res, old school. We don't, it's fuck the 4K. Okay, all right, all right. For sure. For sure.

Like 4K, we've said this before, Howard. Logan, like 4K is not where you want to be living. 45 plus with no team to get you ready. Like 40, that's tough. Yeah, I'll be looking at it back at the video. I'll be like, this has a little boogers and shit that they're showing on here. Like just fucking just eye gunk. Like, yeah, that's crazy.

Bougars is crazy. But even in studio, you're like, that camera catches you at. like a, I don't know, seven foot, eight foot. This bad boy is two feet away from the face. It's just, so if you ever want to go less than 4K, I don't think you have to ask Howard or I, I think. Okay. You're right.

All right, for sure. I don't have a transition for what I'm about to say. I've been thinking about one as you were talking, but we're going to talk about Victor Women Yamah just basically putting it to his resume. Good job. Good job, Martha. There you go. It was asked about MVP last night, and he said, quote, I have thought about it.

I think right now there is a debate. There should be, even though I think I should lead the race. I'm trying to make sure at the end of the season there's no debate. He's actually like giving in real time. This is a great quote. One of the first reasons I should be MVP is that defense is 50% of the game, and that is undervalued so far on the MVP's right now. I believe I'm the most impactful player defensively in the league.

Second argument would be that we almost swept OKC in the season series, and we dominated them three times with their real team. The third argument would be that offensive impact is not just end points. We go down on the panel. Let's start with Howard and we go Araja. What do we think about? When's the last time that we have seen a player just outwardly put their bidding for MVP? And what does that say about Wimbunyama?

I feel like there's at least once a year, maybe every couple of years, where somebody will just outright say it. It's usually their coach, right? It's usually the coach, like somewhere around early mid-March, you know, we'll just like go off on some tangent. Not even asked about it, right? But it had been like a pregame. By the way, guys, I don't know if you've noticed,

but, you know, Luca or fill in the blank, whoever, is leading the league and scoring. I don't know why he's not getting more run for MVP. Like, you'll get that. You'll get like the sort of passive, aggressive, cutesy little campaigning from the coach. or sometimes it's somebody's teammate doing it, like just using the opportunity to kind of like lightly scold the media or the public at large for not giving my guy enough credit.

Advocating for it yourself is a bold move at age whatever, 22. But I don't think we should be surprised. This is what we should know about Wemby by now. He's going to talk to talk and walk the walk. and there's like he doesn't leave any doubt on the court about what he's capable of doing both ends of the court and he's right to say that we often overlook defense in this discussion right like look the history of MVP's it's mostly guys who are like 90% offense right like we talked about this i think last week like james harden russell westbrook dirt novitsky

raja's guy steve nash like most these guys won it because they were just awesome awesome offensive players and wimby is awesome offensively but he doesn't have have the gaudy stats that say Luca, Shea and Yokache have statistically because we still don't have great stats to quantify defense other than if you want to go old school block shots and steals and oh boy he's like killing them all

in those categories right he's averaging three blocks a game nobody else that I mentioned in the MVP race is even averaging a block a game but that's not their roles I love it I love it the short version is Wemby's an absolute legit MVP candidate right now

And I love that he is actually stumping for it in his kind of like confident, but somehow not egotistical way. It doesn't sound obnoxious. Push back on that. I watched it. It's definitely egotistical. You got to kind of be egotistical to do it. Where's the line between confidence and ego? That's very thin.

It's very thin. Oh, Raja, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, I kind of, I kind of agree with Howard. Like I think it's kind of refreshing. I think that's part of the reason why everyone can see Wembe being the face of the NBA so easily moving forward. It's that he wants things like this. It's that he wants to win at the All-Star game. It's that he wants the MVP and he's going to tell you why he thinks he should get the MVP.

You know, he's not afraid to say and do things that historically like have kind of been a little taboo. to Howard's point, it's been a coach or a teammate or somebody else that lobbies for you and that. I kind of dig that. And I find him, there is a fine line between arrogance or not arrogance, but like, egotistical, you know, behavior and confidence. But like, it's so weird how public perception, when it just shapes what you can or can't be for a league. And other players coming off like that immediate, oh, this guy's a dick. oh look at him when wemby does it we don't have that visceral kind of effect it doesn't have that

visceral effect on me like it doesn't come across like that whether that's right or wrong and it may to some people but to me when he's doing these things it doesn't project the way it does when other people do it and I think that's a big part of when a league's looking at people and trying to figure out who's going to champion the the movement going forward I think that plays a big role in it um I think his argument is slightly flawed though I mean they did beat them three times um he does get the statistical, kind of stat filling numbers to support a defensive player of the year or the defensive component of MVP because he gets the blocks and whatnot. Shea's a really good defender too.

Like that's why Big Men dominate that particular, you know, award the defensive player of the year because you can quantify what they're doing defensively. Like a wing player, it's harder to do that in some instances. But Shea's no slouch on the defensive end either. and then, you know, offensively, Wembe's great, but Shea's the best, one of the, I mean,

Lucas out of his mind, So is Yokic, but like, he's one of the top three players in the league offensively in terms of maneuvering around the court, dictating defense,

setting teammates up, using his leverage to free other people. Like, he is unworldly. Wembe's on his way, but he's not, he's not, uh, SGA,

right now. So, like, I love it. I mean, he's got a case. We were talking about it a few weeks ago. If they were to somehow, you know, overtake them in the standings, I think he's got a really strong case. But right now, I don't think that he should be the MVP. I like the fact that he's championing for himself. I do see some flaws in the argument. I was talking to somebody last night. I saw Luca play last night. And I was thinking about Luca being a guy that puts the fear of God in another team, a singular guy that does that in a playoff setting. And I was asking a long time legendary NBA writer, who are the other guys do you think that can actually do that? And they said, Yokic and maybe Wembe. And I kind of pushed back to it would be just because we haven't seen it

before. But what would be expecting out of him in the playoffs, right? This particular the playoffs world would be his first one where I mean it's one thing to I love that he said they'd beat okay C three times in the regular season and that that that's like that is something like that that that sends a message but it ultimately doesn't mean shit what does he have to prove to you guys and what are we expecting from when being his first post seat I'll start with how first how first first of all because of the NBA cup and all the weirdness of that and how it affects the schedule they're actually four in one the season. Oh, yeah.

I'm like, versus Oklahoma. That's impressive. I mean, I mean, I don't, I don't know how many other teams you have to combine in their season series to get to four wins against the thunder. Probably four other teams. I don't know if anybody's even beaten them twice. Anybody else, I have not looked it up. So, uh, listeners can, can fill it in.

I think the spurs have absolutely shown that. experience aside, they're one of the best teams in the league. Wemby has shown he's one of the best players in the league. He's in the MVP race. And I don't even feel like we need to analyze it much beyond that as far as the top line goes. What do we expect from him in the playoffs? The same. I think what we have seen from the Spurs team and one of the reasons that they're this strong is experience aside,

the talent and the confidence are just there. they don't play like a young team they don't they don't get rattled like a young team and the playoffs are different and we always say that because it's true and it usually holds but like i'm not looking at the spurs going to the playoffs thinking like oh we should keep our expectations though because they haven't done it before no i'm looking at them as a team that's only three games behind the thunder in the standings right now that is firmly in the number two seed at worst and I absolutely expect to make the conference finals at minimum. I like you could start lining it up right now.

If the season ends right now, right? You've got like, you know, Thunder versus the eighth seed, say it's the clippers after the playing. Spurs versus the Sons. And then you've got the, you know, the middle group. So Denver and Minnesota, the winner of that's playing Oklahoma. And the winner of Lakers Rockets is playing the Spurs. Do I think the spurs are going to beat the Lakers or the Rockets in a series? I do is that I don't mean that it's disrespect to Luca or Luca LeBron and Austin Reeves or anything else.

I think that what the Lakers have done, the nine-game streak ends last night, but like they are looking really good. I just think that Wemby and that group are ready. And I absolutely expect them to make the conference finals. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I do too, Howard. I've said that before. while I have OKC and San Antonio basically in a tier just above the Lakers,

I think there's a much more significant chance that San Antonio gets knocked out before the Western Conference finals than OKC. I have said before that I'm not as worried about them as a young team having to go through the playoff trials and errors that a team usually has to go through on their way to a championship. I think they're kind of built for the moment, but you don't know what you don't know. And, you know, typically you think you know until you get in there

and the bullets start flying and, you know, everything is ratcheted up a level. And the calibration or the time that it takes to calibrate to that, no one can really predict. You know, that just has to take its, you know, it's got to run its course in real time. And so I tend to agree with you, Howard. And I don't know that Wembe has to prove anything.

Wemby is on his way to being everything that he was projected to be. The spurs are on their way as a team. So I would agree with most of what you said. I think playoffs for them is just a little trickier than people are giving it credit for. And it's not a knock on their team in any way, shape, or form. I am a believer, but something in my gut says, like, they could wind up being down to one in an early series that we didn't see. And then you're going to see what they're made of.

Like, you know, people come back from that and win and go on. But like, they could wind up with that hiccup early in a way that a young team might. And they're probably good enough to overcome it. But I'm just, there's something in me that I can't get over like,

hey, man, watch out for somebody early jumping on them and them not being all the way ready for that. Doesn't mean they'll lose the series. But that puts you in a really precarious situation. Like, you guys know that, right? Like, you're the better team. Everybody knows you're the better team.

but somebody came out and punched you in the mouth. And I worry about that in that way just a little bit, but it's definitely way more than I worry about OKC. I knew that that's also my reservation with them too because I just don't know. I haven't seen them face any adversity on that type of stage before. And that's really nitpicking and it's splitting hairs. But we'll see what happens.

One team that I want to talk about, and this is one more. This is also, Raja, if you ever, if you want to get, you know, take the wheel and go wherever you want to go with this, this is your chance. just go whatever you're we're in the backseat of the car but what the hell is going on with the houston rockets can we just can we can we can we talk through this as a as a as a podcast right now because they lost to the bulls last night wolves are a team that are trying to lose um they were down

20 uh dimmy yodoka gets ejected called the ref soft um but i think i think he was talking about his own team more than anything he's pissed off after everything that the rockets were supposed to be to see them just down bad as they are right now. Are they just a first round knockout waiting to happen? Because they got the Lakers right now. I think Lakers definitely got my control over Debo right now as it pertains to the Houston Rockets. And I don't think the Rockets want any parts of the Lakers whatsoever. But I think any team can pretty much beat them right now because they just look so fractured as a basketball organization.

Yeah. I apologize. Yeah, no, I'm looking at where they're. They're going to fall and they probably don't drop to seven. That gives you, yeah, I'm with you, Logan, because going up to five or four if you were to catch the two teams in front of you doesn't. I mean, that's just putting you up against it then for Minnesota. They're going to beat you. Falling to seven is going to basically put you with the Lakers.

They're going to beat you. Yeah, they're in a really, they're in a tough spot. Vives are low. What are they five and five over to last 10? they've done a remarkable job this year of maximizing maximizing their personnel and stylistically how they have to play to win games. So we might not love the fact that they're not playing great basketball right now,

but I'd argue they had overachieved for a large portion of this season. It's really, really, really difficult to play at a championship level without a proven, like, floor general point guard without someone who's sitting in that chair from night to night. And you're going to win games. And they were Shangoon bringing it up. You know, they ham and egged it all year. But, and look, Reed Shepard and they're getting better.

But, and I don't mean to marginalize everything and just simplify it to not having a point guard. But like, they need a PG. They need someone who can orchestrate offense. They need someone that can set the table. they need someone that can control tempo. They need someone that is a big shot maker down the stretch to compliment Shengoon and KD.

Like those are things that they need. And they had it. Fred Van Vleet. When KD went there, Fred Van Vleet was in place. That's what you need. And in its absence, I don't think it's, I don't think it's fair to see them in the same championship light as you would have seen them with him. And honestly, early in the season, I did.

Because I thought if they got their pause on you when they were playing at the height of of their powers as a defensive grind you out physical unit. They could threaten some people, but they're not at the height of their powers now in that sense. Like they're not playing like they were playing early in the season. And so for that reason, yeah, I don't see much of a playoff run coming out of them. But if you could just plug one piece in,

it unlocks so much more on your roster and they just don't have that piece. Howard, what do they do in the future? Like, this team is kind of is who it is right now They're definitely a team that has pushed the button too early. I think we can all agree on that, right? With the KD trade, it's not necessarily was a bad trade, but you basically just supercharged what you want to do

and to be in contention. Now this is the team that you have. The vibes are what they are. If they have an early playoff exit, what do you do this off season? I don't know if they push the button too early. I mean, I think you had two young pieces that you're really excited about, two foundational pieces in Shangoon and Anamon Thompson and a bunch of other really good players.

And, you know, they, you know, they got their butts kicked in the first round in the playoffs last year. You swap out, like, Dylan Brooks was having a great season before he broke his hand. Jalen Green is Jalen Green. But like you swap those two guys for KD for a couple years of KD. Like, I don't have a problem with that. You didn't give up the future to push the button now. So I don't really have an issue with that at all. They're going to potentially end up in the exact same place that they were.

last year out in the first round. So it's going to look like, all right, you know, where's the progress here? We traded for a Hall of Famer who just passed Michael Jordan on the all-time scoring list. And, you know, KD was awesome last night offensively. All of them were. Shangoon had a 33 point triple double. With 16 for 19 from the field, Schengun. I mean, just incredible.

But they just, this is a team that had been built under Emeudoka as a defensive team. And that identity seems to have really just eroded over the last. last several weeks here. And that, you know, giving up 41 points to the Bulls in the first quarter? Like, what are you doing? So, yeah, like, there's something amiss there. I don't, I'm not going to say this is like all about Burnergate and all that bullshit. I bet you there's just, there's something with this team that is just off.

And Rajah's right. Like, we've talked about it ad nauseum since the start of the season. They never got a replacement for Van Vleet. Does Van Vleet coming back healthy next season just fix everything? No, but it goes a lot. long way toward giving them some organization and some some half court, you know, coherence. But, yeah, this team just doesn't look functional right now.

The talent is there. And look, they could win a first round series. Like, they may surprise us. The talent is there. But right now, they look like less than the sum of their parts. One thing that you said over when the deal happened, Rajah, was. Amen needs to take a leap. And you weren't very confident he could take the leap at least this season, right?

And it wasn't because he was bad or out on him by any means. It was more so like this isn't the year where he takes that. And the reason why I said like the button was probably super, the button was pressed too early, at least in my opinion, because whenever you put Kevin to run on your roster, you're competing for titles already, right? And also it feels like him with Amen kind of stunts him. his growth, right?

Like he's not actually able to, you know, get to the spots that he wants to get to with Kevin Durant on the team. How does he find himself in this new norm? Yeah, I mean, it's a good question, Logan. You know, when I watch him play, I'm not sure that he was ready to take that next step in his game this year.

So, you know, I think my point would be, while yes, you're right that a Kevin Durant would stunt his ability to kind of, you know, broaden the scope of his offensive repertoire and continue to develop some pieces of his game because Kevin's doing those things. I watched him play early in the season, and it was kind of a blank slate at that point. A couple of their first games, I mean, I think we potted about it. And I was really intently watching to see how that offense was going to run, who was going to do what. and he had a basically it was a ball of clay.

He could have made whatever he wanted to make out of his offensive, you know, role on that team. It was a game against OKC, I remember specifically, because I text you guys and I was like, he doesn't look like he wants to do that. It wasn't an issue of someone else was doing it and he couldn't get his hands on it. It was more like they keep giving it to him and he doesn't really want to do that. And that particular game, it manifested itself and just shooting wide open, you know,

range jump shots or, you know, getting to pull-ups if you didn't want to shoot it from from 20 feet, just exploring that part of your game. And he didn't look completely comfortable early in the season. So to your point about KD, like normally, yeah, he would infringe upon his ability to do that. But I'm okay with him just in this one-year sample size, playing with KD and working on that behind the scenes. Working with KD, who's as good as there is in the league. I mean, if you're going to have to learn from someone to play as a rangey, long wing defender offensively, there may be nobody better than KD to learn from. So while it might not manifest-

Might be the most talented officer player we've ever seen. Yeah. So like, I'm okay with him taking another year of like apprenticeship, if you will, with KD, offensively. You know, if that's going to manifest itself in, in showing up on the court, you know, next year. But you never know. We think everyone has these skill sets in these toolboxes and we project what they should be. And you never really know what's going on in someone's head, what they, you know, I'm not saying that he has a mental hurdle at all.

But we've seen people have mental hurdles. You've seen people have issues developing into that, which we think they should be because of all these physical, you know, tools that they have. I don't think that's going to be the issue with Amen, but you can never predict it, as I guess my point, right? I didn't have a problem with him not fully taking all the jumpers and exploring his offensive repertoire this year

if they were going to be in a quest for winning a championship, which I deemed they had the opportunity to do when healthy, right? So I didn't have an organizational issue with that because with Fred Van Vleet, I think they are a team. Do I have them in the same, you know, I don't know. I can't predict where I'd have them right now because I don't know what they're doing. But I had them in the upper echelon of the Western Conference teams that I would tell you could strike and have a chance if they're playing good basketball to win a championship.

Without the opportunity to do that, you know, down the stretch, yeah, maybe I would have liked to have seen him bite off a little bit more of the offensive role. He certainly next year, regardless, has to start stepping into that world. If he wants to become that player, next year he's on the clock to start sharing some of those responsibilities. I don't think that's debatable. The ringer NBA show is brought to you by Fandul. Basketball fans, the NBA season isn't over yet,

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Nuggets Suns, I think I'm going to take the Suns there. Nuggets are just a weird team right now, but I'm going to take the over on Nicolaeok's points, rebounds and assist, and I'm going to take the over on points for the Suns. Magic Cavs, I think I'm going to take the Cavs outright. Nix Pelicans, I think I'm going to take the Knicks outright. And on Hornets Kings, I think I'm going to take the over on that. I'm going to take the over on the mellow ball points.

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Fanduel.com. I'm a gambling problem called 1-800 gambler or call 1-888-78-9-7777 or visit CCPG.org backslash chat at Connecticut. This episode is brought you by Ben's Warehouse. What you wear depends on the occasion. Like, are we talking awards, court-side seats, or just watching the game at home? At Men's Warehouse, they've got you covered with a huge variety of clothing and styles.

From clothing like suits, sport coach, dress shirts, tuxes for more formal events, to casual clothing like polo, shirts, shorts, and jeans for everyday wear. The Men's warehouse experts can help you work out your look while they're on-site tailor's guarantee your clothes fit you perfectly. Men's warehouse has over 600 locations nationwide. They are here and nearby when you're ready to love the way you look. All right, man, when we get to mailback, I think we'd just seen to pour out a little liquor for somebody. Mr. Cam Thomas, who was waived by the Milwaukee Bucks.

I'm not laughing at that. I'm not laughing. One of Howard's favorites, one of the podcast's favorites, was waived on Monday nights. Less than two months after the buck signed him, and they converted it to the two-way contract of Pete Nance to a standard NBA deal. camp thomas is where to sign with any other team who will not be able to participate in postseason play i'll start with howard man how are we at with cam thomas in the career that he has had and what does that kind of this say about what you need to be as an NBA player um and maybe where he fell short because it looks like it's about the end i mean look i i i don't know that cam thomas is important enough enough for us to spend too much time on this.

We have five minutes. He's an object lesson in talent is not everything. The guy's an incredible shotmaker. He's an incredible offensive player, period. Just super talented can make shots from just about anywhere over anyone at any time, but there is more to the game than scoring. And I'm in Brooklyn, so I know a lot of Nets fans. And he was a really polarizing player while he was,

here and there were like some true believers among Nets fandom who thought this was all on the franchise, they screwed it up. But when you go through, the lesson here is that when you see a player who looks super talented, but you go through coach after coach who does not believe in him, you need to start listening to what the coach and sometimes even his teammates are saying. There's like this is not, people don't just, you don't just a doghouse a player based on like something arbitrary. coaches want to win. Players want to win. If your teammates and your coach, and especially your coach, multiple coaches that you've gone through have all flagged the same things and have cut your minutes because you're not enough of a ball mover or enough of a defender or just a better team player that says something. No one is doing this arbitrarily. So when fans, when you get frustrated because your favorite player or a guy that you think is really awesome is not being given enough rope by the coach,

realize they see a lot more than you do and there's usually a reason. And by the time you get through all the versions of Cam Thomas and all the coaches in Brooklyn and then being waived by a tanking team and then going to a Bucks team that was still trying to salvage the season and now cut by them so they can convert a two-way player and their season's lost too, what that tells you is it was never about the Nets or any number of their coaches. And it's not about Doc Rivers and it's not about the Bucks. At some point, it's about Cam Thomas. And I don't say this with any joy. It just, it sucks seeing a guy with a lot of talent not being able to find his footing. And you don't know how many opportunities, how many more chances you're going to get. And this may be it for him.

Maybe there'll be another one. Or maybe he'll go salvage himself in the G League for a while. But yeah, it's a bummer all the way around because the guy is really talented. What does it say about just how much time you can't? can't waste in the league, Roger. Yeah. That league is a non-forgiving. It is, it is, it is a cutthroat business.

Everyone wants to be there. You think once you get in, like the hardest part is usually getting into that bad boy. And people get there and they don't read the room. They, you know, it's, it's tough. Some people can read the room and wind up making more of a career. than any person on draft night would have ever given them an opportunity to make because they read the room, they figured out how they could be valuable to an organization, and they kept doing that, and they kept earning trust in that way until someone would give them the opportunity to do something more.

A lot of guys get in there. They don't read the room in that way. They don't have the self-awareness to sit back and say, hey, someone else is doing that job here. He may be better than me. well, even if he's not better than me in my mind, they deem him better at that than me. And so I've got to figure out another way to impact winning and make a living.

And the crazy thing is it's always the guy that's really good offensively. It's almost always that guy. It's almost always that guy that feels like he's too good to not be the hub offensively. You very rarely see a dude who thinks he's great defensively and hangs his hat on defending. Be that guy that's in and out.

Because they can always use that. But it's always that guy that's an incredible shot maker, a portion of the fan base, usually the ones that don't know hoops will fall in love with his ability to make really, really tough shots over and over again and score the ball. And that guy is hard sometimes to convince that it's not his ball to shoot every time and that he has to find another way to impact winning. And I've had those conversations with players as a front office member. And I remember them, like imploring, begging, articulating how.

the structure of a team looks and how what an individual player might see from his side is not what an organization sees from their side. And there could be a happy medium there if you would just do X, Y, and Z. And you think that conversation went well. I'd go back up to the room and be like Griff. Yeah, I mean, I had a great conversation. Like, I think this is good. And that just doesn't sink in. There's a barrier there. And that'll get you up out of the league quicker than you should potentially be up out of the league. I would tell Cam Thomas, like he could make a lot of a lot of money probably overseas as a dynamic score and not saying that he doesn't have you know G league bump back to the NBA but I mean they don't get their hands on electric scores like that all the

time in Europe you can make a lot of money make a lot of money because that's the only place that I see you getting to play the role that you are insistent on playing that's not going to be on an NBA friend it's not going to be on an NBA team unless like unless a cam is ready to have a real conversation with himself and people are ready to have real conversations with him that are that are you know close to him about understanding his value to NBA organization. Yeah. There is a place for people to come in and spark offense in in stretches of time a la Vinnie Johnson. They're microwave type dudes, but that can't be it. There have got to be other things that you do and provide not only on the court in other areas

on the court, but in the locker room as a teammate and as a human being. And you have to buy into those things if you want to have a long NBA career. If you're not interested in that and it's only going to be about how well you can score the ball, then you're going to have to find another league to make a really good living doing that because it's just not going to be on a winning NBA team. I always think about the Greg Popovich quote about wanting people, whether it's coaches, players whoever, who have gotten over themselves. That was like Pop's favorite phrase.

You know, people have gotten like it. And that's about self-awareness, right? It's a different version of saying people who are self-aware. And I think it's what you're saying, Roger. Like, you know, Cam Thomas, there's a self-awareness problem. There's not a talent problem. There's a self-awareness problem. How often, Roger, happy, you had those talks to the guys that it actually stick?

Like, we're actually changing the direct, like, how often does that actually happen with those types of guys? I mean, you know, in the NBA, because I only spent that one year in the front office. So, you know, I've had that conversation a couple times in that capacity, maybe a time or two as an older player in the NBA. And honestly, at that level, it rarely works. Yeah. It's what I thought. It rarely works.

These are, you know, it's the old adage of trying to teach an old dog new tricks. Like these are things that they've been celebrated for at every stop of their basketball journey. and now you're trying to tell that old dog, I'm not going to celebrate you for that. Quite the opposite. You know, I need you to do the things that you never wanted to do. And that's a very, very hard conversation to have, and it's an even harder conversation to digest

and, you know, make the changes as the person being kind of talked to. I would say this, though. You know, as I've come up with my kids through the high school and youth, you know, football, basketball, what have you, kids listen you know kids listen and it's not in a it's not in in a you know they're not pro so asking them to sacrifice everything that they dream of uh to be exactly what a team needs if that means it's going to cut short their upward trajectory isn't always fair to a kid i don't believe in that but certainly having conversations about team dynamics and what teams take

and how even the leader of a team if he's the one given the opportunity to to do everything that he can do has a responsibility to the rest of the group, to not make them feel marginalized and to give them opportunities to shine in their spaces. Like those things are nuanced conversations that I never got as a young player. And I don't know how many people do. But I think you get better prepared kids if they learn those things early and they're taught properly early. You get people that would receive the message you're asking about Logan when they become

adults. They can receive it because they've been, you know, they've been brought up. away and they and quite frankly they've been exposed to it at an age where it's not foreign to them they understand it yeah that's fascinating but rogerbell ladies and jim it's time for uh what's up you got something howard no just before we get to the mailbag yeah could i just could i just can i just as long as we're in kind of like uh more or less like the consequences slash karma slash hater portion of the pod oh shit okay okay all right All right.

Oh, shit. Yeah. That's good. Can I just note that the Miami Heat are one in five on a five game losing streak since the BAM game? Just saying. Just saying. Just noting it for the record. I would say this.

I would say this, Howard. Like, I would say this, man. Bam, would it, Luca have 60 on the, on the heat? Yeah. And bam, I didn't, I wasn't on a pod. I was fishing and shit. I don't know if you guys touched it. But if the quote that he gave after that game was one of the tackiest quotes I've ever heard,

it hit me so wrong. What did he say? When they asked him about Lucas 60 and he said something to the effect of like, yeah, you know, when you get hot like that and you can't miss, like I know exactly how that feels or something. And then he said, but it's not 83 or something like that. And I was like, that wasn't great. I hope, wait, I just want to, because I don't remember and I didn't see it.

Like I might have missed it, Raja. I hope that was actually a real quote, not one of those like fake quote card things that people like throw on Instagram and that goes viral before you realize like, oh no, somebody just made this shit up. No, I heard it. I was driving in the car and I heard like it was in a media scrum,

I guess, or maybe it was at the podium, but I heard him say it. Yes, that's not great. All right. Speaking of haters, there comes Cliff from Philly. Wait, why I get to hate?

What did I do? Why get the haters take? He was hanging on New York air before the pod. I mean, I can't hate on New York air. I mean, I love New York, but I can't hate on New York air. That's crazy. That's crazy, crazy, crazy talk. Anyways, what up, Beck?

What's going on, man? This email literally is what up, Beck. So, this is from Robert Dean. Good morning, NBA. It's that time of the year again, the ramp up to playoffs with the same teams pivoting, hiding and strategizing both for the playoffs and the summer. Who are some of the most important eighth to tenth players in the line? up you can see making a big splash this year. Thunder, Jaylon Williams shooting 50, 50, and 80

in the last 10 games. Can we unpack his game a little. Spurs, Harper, Lakers, Conard, and Denver, Hardaway Jr. Is he over, under, or properly rated? Are a few to throw around. As always, love the pod, the dynamics insights, and most of all, laughs. All the best, Robert Dean. So, yeah, Howard, let's start with you on that one. Yeah, Howard got it. Howard got it. hour. Yeah, we got to be done. No, this is good, although, like, trying to go through, like, every team's, like, eighth to tenth guys, especially in the playoffs, like, Rajah knows, like, we're going to get

to the postseason and, you know, depth is going to matter a little less and rotation is going to be a little bit tighter. But we also know, like, you know, it's some random, like, it could be like a Luke conard, like, you know, three point hot streak in the fourth quarter that turns a series, right? Like, that's, that'll be on the table. I don't know, a few off the top here. I'll go, like, Easter conference, like the Knicks have this, like, weird morass of, like, backup guards.

Like, is Jose Alvarado going to turn a series with some, he's got, like, right, there's going to be a Jose Alvarado game. There could be, like, a Jordan Clarkson game for all we know with the Knicks. You know, like, the Cavs was Schrooter. Is he an eighth man or is he six or seven? That's the other problem. It's like, who are we classifying his eighth man? He mentioned, like, Jay Will with the Thunder.

the Thunder have so many different 8th through 10th through 12 guys who could potentially turn a game or a series like fucking Jared McCain last night sticking it to the Sixers it has returned to Philly Sixers sold high on that Like

Wasn't that the quote though? Wasn't that his quote? Hold on sorry sorry Daryl's never left on that one down Can y'all please stop? Can y'all please stop with the six is disparaging? Please no no please Cliff went from his hood up

to his hood like really, really up and pulled forward within the last like 10 seconds. Yeah, it was like he has the garbage back on his head, which is well deserved for Citrus fans at this point. Why the fuck would you say that? Rob's it. Why would you say that? Well, why would you do it? Well, why would you do it?

Why would you say it? Why would you say it if asked the question? If not, if not prompted to like literally ask, do you think you sold high or low? Why even approach it? Why just leave it alone? There's always an option to show. shut the fuck up, Broz.

That's always an option. Sorry. Anybody else? Eighth, men. Who's your favorite eighth man? No mention of Justin Edwards, huh, Howard? That's crazy. Let me see. I don't think he's an eighth man, but Dennis Jenkins

was balling out tonight. You can definitely have a game. You could definitely have a game for the pistons. Shooters on the cabs. He could definitely have a Keon Ellis. How about Keon Ellis? Like that?

Like that? Bones Highland on the Wolves again. I don't know. Bone Highland is a six man, seventh man, eight man. Your collective bet, your collective six through eight in the playoffs are super, super important. Yeah. Like super. And whoever gets consistency, whether it be like a one night for each of the three guys

or if they're just collectively solid, whoever gets the most solid performance out of that bench, provided stars are being stars, you got a huge advantage in a series. That's, that's, that's just facts. If you get role guys to step up and bench players to step up and give contributions in the playoffs, you're in, can I say something about Detroit real quick? Please. Like, watch, watch them a bit. I'll be at the Lakers, you know, Lakers did look like they were just running in quicksand. Um, I kind of enjoyed, they had no legs last. I had no legs yesterday, bro. Yeah. Does there, is there, I mean, you guys correct me if I'm wrong, because I haven't watched every game they've played since Cade's been out, but,

at least earlier in that game, they were moving the ball and moving people. And it exposed the Lakers' lack of legs because they weren't just coming down. And that's always an interesting dynamic for me. And here's my question to you, dudes. Can they pair the two, which is we have a fantastic manipulator of defense when Cades there. Individual scoring, shot creation, and really, you know, shifts defense in a way where everyone gets to eat relatively easily. But when he was out and I saw that ball movement and Duncan Robinson flying off

screens and like different people to buy his Harris flying off of stuff. And now people are slipping to the rim because we're not just all standing there watching a ball handler waiting for pick and roll. That's really difficult to guard. So like is there any combination of that where they get the best of both worlds? Because that, I mean, that marginalizes Cade for sure, right? Because he's so good with the ball. But I was watching it thinking like, fuck.

They had a ball on a string, bro. They had a ball of string, right? And they paired that also with just physical, through physicality on the defense event. It's a really good. Yeah, bro. Yeah. So I think, I think in theory they should be able to.

But I think what it's going to take is it's going to take a level of maturation from K to like look at this team in the current state and be like, okay, I got to adjust my game. Okay. I can't adjust my aggressiveness necessarily, but I do have to like kind of take my foot off the gas and just be like, hey, man, maybe I'll be a part of, you know, the ball movement. And if I do got to stand in the corner, cool,

but I will get my moments what I need to. I don't know. And it would just take an adjustment and see how he can, how he can, you know, reintegrate if that makes it. And also, the other thing is, as a collapsed lung, you might actually have to do that just in general to get back, while he gets back in a plane shape, play a different version of himself until he gets fully halt.

We'll say. Yeah, yeah. No, I don't mean to take anything away from me. He's brilliant with the ball. They're a better offensive team with him out there and having the ball. That's classic. That's classic offense when you have a primary ball head of like K, right?

Like when they're out, this typically happens. Like, they used to have him with Kobe when he would get out of the line up to look at him with the ball a lot more, right? But what he did, he's still Kobe fucking Brian. So it's a different item. Clip, what's the next question? All right.

This is from JT and Germany, and the title of the email is LeBron now back in his Olympics role. JT. in Germany here, it seems LeBron's role on the Lakers right now has become very similar to his Olympics role. Luca Reeves is not the same as Durant Curry, but LeBron took a second third place seat scoring-wise and has still led the team an assist in rebounds and actually averaged a triple double per 36 minutes, 2012 and 10 via basketball reference, and was MVP. I wonder if JJ and the staff pointed that out or if it clicked in his basketball, ball super brain. Either way, they went 6 and 0 in the tournament despite two close games, so maybe a template to follow. Lakers have won 7th straight at the time of writing, 23-03, which

was yesterday, and Luca catching fire in a step-like way after a slow start to their partnership. JT. in Germany. I like it. I like what LeBron is doing. I like where he's at. I mean, he had damn near a triple double last night and he didn't score into the fourth quarter. is just brilliant. We'll see what happens. I just don't know. The Lakers are just one of those weird teams because I don't like their front court at all, right?

I think that they don't have that much defensive depth. I think we talked about in the last podcast. They probably have like three guys that you can pencil on defensively that are going to be effective. But I do like what LeBron is doing. I think another thing that we just have to consider and maybe we said this last pod is like,

Luke has only been in L.A. for 13 months, right? Like, it takes a long time for generational talents to gel together. And, you know, it's easy for us to say, like, hey, LeBron needs to take a step back, right? And I think, oh, this is what you said rather than the other day. But in practice, it's really hard to do that. And I think that, you know, we said LeBron was compared to Kareem. I think Howard said that. I think that's a great comparison.

But I also think comparing him to Will Chamberlain in 1972 is a way more, is an app comparison as well, where he's on that team, I believe they had Jerry West and what's my other guy's name, Miguel Goodrich and 22, Elgin Baylor. What fuck you know who they had on 1970? Shut the, because I'm a fucking, I do this, bro. But anyway, being the third option,

Will Chamberlain, his scoring went all the way down, he did everything else, right? I think he led the league and assists. He averaged like 19 boards, but he did it in a number three role and they won a championship. And I think that's where LeBron is right now, just like a top three player has to kind of just recalibrate

and figure his whole rollout and then, you know, kind of put it to practice. But I've been really impressed by it. And it's also like really dope to see. It's really good to see. So we'll see how far this goes and what the future is. But let's just enjoy LeBron because his days

are very much numbered. Yeah, that's a really, really good observation. I wish I had given that a little bit more thought preseason when I was talking about, because he has done that. He has done that on Olympic teams. It didn't even register in my brain. It was a good, it was a good one. Speaking of players and retirements, this is from Parker and, hey, real ones, thank you guys for the pod. I wrote an email a while back, sends it to the wrong address about should Adams over be replaced. I was happy to listen to y'all takes and how they align with what I said. As a fan of the league, I don't think his vision aligns for a fan just the money. I could go on, but the ivory tower is well above my pay grade. Wow,

shots fire. Question, we all have thoughts or maybe connections or a date of remembrance on when a player retires. My question is, who are y'all picks for a player retirement that you are sad to learn of? Also, who do you think in the league as a whole will be sad about when they retire? My personal sad to learn players' retirements, sorry, Raja, was Corey Brewer, love the way he played, JJ Reddick, watched his whole career, and Tim Duncan, Timmy with an exclamation point. My league pick is Steph Curry. I think when Steph retires, everybody will be said. Good ambassador, one team guy as of now, champion.

And whenever he plays, he's still to this day, any game can go off. Still has that magic that makes you feel like a kid. Thanks, y'all. Parker. That's a great question, Parker. Sounds like a Howard question. I'm passing the ball first. I get my answer.

I mean, where my head goes is that I think collectively, forget my own, you know, opinion on this right now or it's my own feelings. But like, I think collectively we feel it most when it's guys who are so ingrained in the league, the whole face of the league thing, but are so ingrained in the NBA's identity that it's hard to imagine the league anymore without them. Right. Like when Steph came into the league, you wouldn't have thought this was going to be who he was. but as we're close to the end here, it's hard to imagine the NBA without Steph. It's hard to imagine the NBA without LeBron. It's hard to imagine the NBA without Kevin Durant. And all these guys are close to the end. And if all three of them just decided, you know, in July, we're all announcing our

retirement. That's it. We're all done collectively. We would feel that, like spiritually, forget entertainment wise. But like on every level, everybody who loves the NBA would be like, holy shit. You know, like the time has come. It's now all about, you know, Shea and Yokic and Anthony Edwards and whoever. But like, if that happened simultaneously, like, you would feel it.

So that's the first thing I think about is like, you know, and a lot of guys, by the time that they're done, the legends, they're literally on their last legs. Like Shaq literally limped away from his last game with the Celtics and was not who he was anymore. So it was less sad when he retired. It just felt inevitable. You know, Kobe went out the way that he did. did, but you couldn't even imagine Kobe's still playing after that anyway. So it just felt right the timing.

I'll just say on a personal level, the retirements that hit me hardest are all the dudes that I covered early in my career, because as they all each retired, I'm like, holy shit, I'm so old that Derek Fisher's now retired and coaching the Knicks. Like stuff like that hits you. When you look around one day and everybody that you covered early on, they're all like assistant coaches and broadcasters now. Robert or he's in studio at LA, you know, the Lakers, the Spectrum Network, whatever the hell they are. Like that's the stuff that hits me or, you know, everybody I even ever covered with the Knicks,

the second beat that I had. And that's already a long time ago now too. Like Carmelo and all these guys, they're all retired. Like, eh, those are the retirements that hit me personally, the ones that make me feel old. Yeah. Steph will be, it'll be a moment when he retires. I think other thing is like, It depends on how they're retiring.

I think you did it. You said a really good thing, Howard, when you were talking about just like shack and just the inevitability of that. Even, it's weird to think about it because I know like with Katie, Steph and LeBron, there is an inevitable scenario that they're going to retire,

but they're playing so fucking good right now. It's like, I don't, can I get another year of this? Can I, you know? I don't know. I think I'm going to be really sad when those guys retire because it's going to be the first time. I'm going to feel like you back.

This generation of players was the players that I grew up with. Right. And I happened to get into the life where, you know, I'm covering them. But shit, I remember when LeBron was, yeah, I was a kid. I was like 10 years old in LeBron. First of the league, right? I remember going to games as fans when KD and Steph were in town, you know? and now to see them gone, it's going to be weird.

So I don't, I don't know the feeling yet. I'm going to find out pretty soon. It's going to be weird. How is it for a player, though? What do you think? Yeah, I had two. I had two. It's interesting listening to you guys talk about it because I think you use the word that I was

going to use is the ones you grow up with. So I had a number of players that I grew up with as a fan that their retirements were hard for me to kind of, you know, cope with. But then I had another life as a play. and you grow up with another group of NBA players as professionals. Like my professional life, the guys I grew up with in the NBA that were like my era, the really good ones, it was tough to watch those guys retire, some before me because it, you know, it highlights mortality,

like when I had to shut it down and then seeing the, you know, those guys that hung on longer than me and when they shut it down, like Vince, you know, not comparing myself to them as players, but like in that window of time when you played, you know, those, those hit you, right? Because like, that's a generation of player that was obviously I was out there with and playing against on a night-to-night basis

and seeing them shut it down is tough. Yeah, Steph, LeBron, KD, you know, all of those dudes. Every generation's just big guns and marquee matchups and Christmas games, you know, all those, those guys that drive the league, those are always hard. But for me,

I had two sets of players that I grew up with and each time one of those sets retired, it was a little difficult. Yeah. I feel like, for all, like, we took, it's weird to say this, bro,

but like, it feels like we took these three guys for granted in a lot of ways, man, just pencil in and lost in them play. And like, now that it's about to be over with, it's like,

fuck, man. Like, I remember, like, even as a media member, like you still love basketball and when these guys go off the feeling is still there it's like oh shit this dude is about to go off like i wasn't in the building for when lebron dumped um i get houston last a week but i could imagine if i was there like oh shit did you see that like

it was crazy like we still have those moments and to know that you're not going to have them the good thing though is the league i think is in good hands like there are a lot of guys that i still want to go watch right like i still when wimpy's in town like i still got to see them right When Aunt is doing his thing, I really want to go see him play. Luca, like, you still get out. That was something that I was scared of was like if this crop of players that I grew up watching, retire, that I'm not going to get like giddy going into, you know, when you get giddy going into an arena about a particular match of a particular player

coming in. You still have that giddiness when I see these new guys come in. So that's a good sign for the league. The league's in a really good place. I just, this is the advice. I mean, Howard, I'm sure you do this to younger people too when they've got kids and you're watching them just enjoy all the moments with a little baby and all the growing up. And you say, hey, man, just try to be present and enjoy it because it goes really, really fast, right?

And it's the same thing I kind of say to NBA fans. Howard asked the question, I don't know how many pods ago we were talking about the stuff of it all. And I was like, man, anytime that guy can suit up and you get to buy a ticket and go watch that, you better take the opportunity to do that because you take your own advice follow your own advice he only goes to miami once a year sir follow your own advice i played with him so i'm good but like even even uh even even even even the yonness of it all from last week's conversation you know if you're a milwaukee fans and it's and he wants to play man that's that's that's that's that's tough. Like that that freak freak's not coming through there. There's going to be another star

come through Milwaukee, but he's not. He's not yawning. So anyway, like, I give the same advice to NBA fans as it relates to their favorite players, man. Enjoy it. Don't take it for granted. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. I enjoy this and I will never take this pot for granted. I really appreciate you guys. It's a really great day, man. Good shit to everybody. Good shit. By the way, while we've been talking, literally in the last like two minutes, I just got a text from my boy, Benny, who's a huge Nets fan saying, well. Camp Thomas was kind of guy? Well, well, you were right about Cam Thomas. We had some spirited debates about him a couple of years ago.

Benny, Benny was a defender. Benny was a defender? Yeah, big time. Nets fans, there's a portion of Nets fans. A lot of them actually. Nets fans ain't got much, man, okay? It's fine. Howard, what is it?

Like, I am so interested in it. Is it, is it just the incredible tough shot making that, that is the draw for, for, like, Nets fans with him? He just, it's not just like, there's a lot of guys where you and I have seen Roger who are like instant offense, right? And some of them are just because they're just dead eye shooters or whatever. Camp Thomas pulls off the most impossible shot. The flare, like the flare. The flare, man. It's the degree of difficulty. And if you got extra points for degree of difficulty, the dude would lead them scoring. Like he just, but it's almost like every shot he ever took was a high

degree of difficulty shot during his time with the Nets. And when those are going in, awesome. But when they're not, not so awesome. But also like, yeah, you got. to do more in the game. But anyway, yes, he was really easy for Nets fans to fall in love with. And plus he had like, you know, I think he was a rookie when Katie was here. So like Katie had given him the stamp of approval and Kyrie had too. And so I think like you got a little bit of that too where it's like, oh, well, the superstars are really high on this guy. They must know, they know something we don't.

But players can fall in love to his detriment. They do. They do. They do. It's fascinating. It's fascinating how many high. level players will watch a Cam Thomas or the like, just a dude who can put it in the bucket and stamp them off of just because that's what most of us are looking at. Like can they score that shit incredibly and the skill that it takes to do that and sometimes

forget about everything else that goes into making, you know, a high level basketball player or for that matter, a high level efficient score. Interesting though. I appreciate the insight. sure and that has been another edition of real ones tap in with us every Tuesday and Friday I will be back home on Friday so we'll be back to 4K for on my end we will see you guys then

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