The Ringer NBA Show - Wemby's Injury Woes. Plus, the Pistons Are Beasts of the East.

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

Spurs star Victor Wembanyama has been sidelined indefinitely due to a calf strain and will be reevaluated in two to three weeks. What does this mean for Victor, the Spurs, and injury concerns across the league? Deeeeetroit Basketballlll is back! The Pistons have won 10 straight, and that’s been with many key players sidelined. Have they cemented themselves as top dogs in the Eastern Conference? Should the NBA step in to protect players from fan interactions similar to the one Draymond Green had with a fan in New Orleans over the weekend? Plus, the mailbag! (0:00:00) Intro (2:15) FanDuel ad break (2:53) Victor Wembanyama’s calf strain (21:49) The Pistons' 10-game win streak (41:48) Draymond Green’s fan interaction (58:44) Mailbag! Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck Producers: Victoria Valencia and Clifford Augustin Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping? Logan Murdoch here with another edition of Real Ones. With myself, Howard Beck and Roger Bell. We get into a lot. We talk about the Wimby injury and how that affects the San Antonio Spurs. And also how it affects the league, right? Not only from a marquee guy being injured, but also what injuries have done in the pace of the game has done for the player body.

And where we are as a league and also the basketball culture with playing games, professionalize in the league not only now, but for kids at a young age that may not even get to this point because of what is happening to their bodies. And then we get into a discussion about player, fan interactions in light of what happened with Draymond Green in New Orleans. Then we talk about Willie Green briefly in the Pelicans organization. Yuck, man. I don't know what's going to happen with basketball in New Orleans, but the Pelicans Brass clearly isn't invested in a team with the moves that they're making. It's pretty hard. And then we get into a really interested in discussion with the mailbag where we talk about, again, future of the league, what's going on

with Anthony Edwards, is who, which star is primed to take the next step, not only from an individual standpoint as Anthony Edwards, but also what a team can build around them with the Timberwolves and if they are going to be in prime position to do well. And then I think that was about it, man, was a really, really fun show. I had a blast. We had great insight from Big, Cliff and great production from VV. So that's our show. Cliff, play the theme music. What's popping?

Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Roger Bell there. Howard Beck and the motherfucking cut. Got a great show for you today. Action packed. Let's bring in our buddy, our producer and crime.

Big C.C. Cartier Cliff is in the building. What's going on, buddy? What's going on, man? Beck, Raj, Logan. What's up with you, man? How are y'all feeling today? I'm a little down.

I'm a little down. everybody knows. It was a really hard Monday night for me, but, you know, we're managing and hoping for the best for our sports teams. I guess your Raiders didn't do much for you, so there's that. You're listening to the Ringer MBA show presented by Fandul. Fandul now displays your bet

directly on your phone's lock screen. And with the latest updates to the live events and player pages, it's never been easier to be part of the game. And, Missouri, get excited because Fandul's coming your way December 1st. Download the Fandul sportsbook app now and play your game. 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus in present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming,

gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Helph.com. Call 1-88-789-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Anyways, speaking of down bad, the Spurs, man. You're MVP pick. Victor Wimbighamma looks to be out for a little bit here. The Spurs are currently fifth in the west. 9 and 5. According to ESPN, Victor Wimbe Yamma will be out for two to three weeks with the

expectation to be evaluated in two to three weeks with apparent calf injury. Now, Wembe's been hooping this year as we know. Yeah, Roger's face. It seems a little bit scary with the calf injury. So we should be caution here. But Logan, man, how about your MVP pick? Victor Wimbenyama with the calf injury. How do you feel about that? I'm pretty bummed. I'm not going to lie. Not because I'm probably not going to be. right anymore and that my pick isn't going to come to fruition. But more than anything, when you talk about calf injuries now, I think we're starting to talk about them in the more appropriate way. And we shouldn't look at these injuries as like a weeks long injury. We should look at this in terms

of months because calves are one of those annoying injuries that could lead to something even worse, as we saw with KD. We saw with Tyrese Halliburton. And all, I think overall it's just a bummer for the league, right? And I think that this is something. that is over the last two years is kind of haunting wimby right when you talk about the injury last season and you talk about this one like it's taking chunks away from his young season and you don't want to have that for a young guy within his career and these are pretty like significant injuries one that you know got him out of the for the rest of the year last season and this one's going to set him back like I wouldn't be surprised if he's back maybe top of the year as opposed to

Christmas because I just I mean just when you talk about calf injuries they're just so tricky and anytime that that has happened it's particularly in the playoffs is when they have gotten when they have happened the most right and then you you see they take players out for multiple series on end because they're so unpredictable and if you play on them hard enough it could lead to an Achilles tear and that's what you really don't want especially for a franchise guy and a league altering guy and a league pillar like Wimby. So it's just sad all around. I'm sad, you know, from a personal standpoint, because I'm not going to be right.

But I think I'm also just sad for just a league in general because like he was one of the marquee guys to watch on a given night. And, you know, he's coming off of two losses with the warrior against the warriors, but two incredible games from him. And it just sucks. I think all the way around is the biggest thing. This is, I feel like the pattern of this. season so far, every great thing that happens suddenly gets counterbalanced by something awful

happening. And with the Spurs, it's almost literal, right? Because like Wemby coming out of the gates just like swatting shots all over the place, lighten it up offensively, the Spurs being one of the fun surprise teams initially overshadowed by oops, gambling investigation. And then in this, and now like Wembe himself is out. But I feel like that was the opening week of the season was, holy shit, Wemby's taking over, oh God, gambling investigation. And it's just, it's been like this, right? Like every, it feels like every great thing that's happened has been offset. I'm not as worried about Logan's MVP predictions as Logan is, because it's your prediction,

not mine. But I will say this, Wemby's out. They're saying two to three weeks before he's reevaluated. So it could be longer. Maybe it's three. Maybe it's four. I hope it's not as long as you were just talking about. But even if it's only three weeks, that's 11 games.

Another week after that, he would have missed 14. You could only miss 17 before you fall off the eligibility list for postseason awards. And like, this is, I feel like, whether it's this season or soon, we're going to have some really warped results because of the 65 game rule. I get why they did it. I understand it. But sometimes you're just really injured. and it's going to knock out serious MVP candidates or all NBA candidates.

And granted, we might have not voted them in anyway because games played is always a factor for voters. But it blows. You guys want me to go through a list of injuries right now just to reset this? Let's just get it real depressing. Let's do it. It's real depressing. Significant players who didn't even start the season, who were out on opening night, a couple of them have come back. Opening night, we did not have.

Jalen Williams, Kyrie Irving, Deeran Fox has since come back. Tyler Hero hasn't played yet. LeBron, coming soon. Darius Garland has come back and gone again. Fred Van Vleet. Damien Lillard. Jason Tatum. Tyreys Halliburton.

Those last four, probably not going to be seen this season. Paul George finally came back last night. Kobe White, Mitchell Robinson, Dejante Murray. Out right now who were not on that list, guys who have been hurt since the season started. Wembe. Janice last night. Anthony Davis. Trey Young, Jalen Brunson, John Morant, O'I, Ninobe, Palo Bancairot, Cade Cunningham, the last few games,

Walker Kessler, out for the season, Bradley Beale, out for the season, Christian Brown, Garland again, Bam out of bio, bunch of Pacers, Cam Thomas, Dylan Harper, Jalen Greene, Zion, Williamson, Derek Jones, Jr. Torrin Prince, Jordan Poole, Tobias Harris. There's a few non-significant names in there, but those are mostly, like, guys who were important to their team. And then, like, we've had, like, Lamello Ball was out for a bunch of games. Derek Liley was out for a bunch of games. It's like, it's just been a fucking shit show. Like, that is a, that is a very long and mostly significant list of names. And it's put a severe crimp in a lot of teams in the early part of the season.

Sorry for the depressing list there. Yeah, that's, that's interesting. Yeah, I mean, my first, my mind first goes to like that calf injury with, with Wembe. It's a, it's a, you know, it's an interesting injury because there are degrees to which you constrain that calf. And then there are specific areas within the calf that that I think would have would more so affect an Achilles if it were to be strained in that area, right? Like if you got it way high up on the gastrock and it's not a terrible strain, I don't know. I'm not a trainer or a doctor, but those those don't seem to be the ones where you really put that Achilles. The ones that really put that Achilles in jeopardy are the

ones where you can see that guy take the step back and kind of see like the pop in the calf, if you will, the ripple in the muscle. Like that's a real significant tear. So I'm just saying, I'm saying that to say that if his is minor and it's not a significant one, it could be very realistic that he's back in a couple weeks. They may already be airing on the side of that caution that we are prescribing for them, right? Like, oh, I just feel something in there. And they're like, hey, let's shut it down now before this becomes something that lingers. That's my hope for him, right, that it's not a, it's not one of those ones. Because I've said before, you can trick yourself into thinking that I can run on that calf because when things are

scripted and when they're asking you to perform certain drills to, to kind of make sure that you're healthy, you know the drill, right? So you can protect the calf with certain movements. But as soon as it goes live and it's spontaneous movement, you can no longer protect it. And that's when that, that's when the danger presents itself, right? Howard, as it, as it, you know, I've often thought about this. People ask me all the time about injuries now versus injuries then, styla play now versus style of play then. And the correlation between the two and I don't have the answer,

but I do think it's interesting because our pace is so much higher now for these guys. You know, like, you guys, everyone knows that listens. I'm not a super analytical dude, but I think the math on how many miles you run now. in a game versus how many miles you ran in the early 2000s in a game would be significantly higher. And every mile you put on a body, it's like a car. You're getting that mile closer to the odometer and the point in which that car says, hey, that's enough. And so that's interesting to me, right? Because these guys, while there is so much more space and the game is wide open

and it's fun to watch at times and they're way more creative as players than we ever were, I will tell you that like it's hard to play that style. You have to train to play that style. Your body, when your body's like finely tuned, you ever heard about a fighter coming into a fight and being like two in shape? Do you know what I mean? Like they've been trained to a point and they've been ready for so long that now they've almost gone to the other side of the pendulum with that.

Like they're like kind of too ready. I say that to say that when you're playing that old style where we're coming down and we're in floppy and we're in these sets. like there's a way that you can play those not at your optimum level of conditioning. Right? So you're not like on the precipice of being over conditioned because like the game's not that fast. We're basically walking it up every possession. Like we need to be stronger than we are actually in like cardio shape.

But now boy, you got to be in some cardio shape, man. These jokers are getting up and down. They're running. And so I just wonder if there's any correlation between how wide open the game is. if they're actually to my eye it says there are way more miles being ran in a game than there were back then but like that's where my mind goes when we see the rash of injuries right like sure they train more from younger um they they play exponentially more games through the youth circuits grassroots you know and everything coming up like these games some of these kids

are playing NBA seasons in in in fifth and sixth grade like 80 hundred games in a summer like we weren't doing that. So by the time you get to the NBA and now you're playing this faster pace, like, I mean, there's got to be something there, no? No, we touched on this when I was going off on Michael Jordan a week or two ago because of his whole load management thing. And yeah, the fact is, we don't have, you know, we don't have tracking stats from back in the day, right? There were no tracking cameras in the 80s and 90s and early 2000s. But we have tracking cameras now. They know exactly how many miles per game guys are running in miles per season. And even in the tracking era, which is whatever, a decade or so. And I think there's estimates for the past. And there's also just

plain observation, right? We know that pace is way, way up. There are way more possessions a game. The game is incredibly spread out because of the reliance on three-point shooting now. So yes, guys are running more miles a game. They are having to also cover much more ground defensively every possession. All you have to do is pull up YouTube from like the 90s, early 2000s, watch what a possession, typical possession looks like and look at what it looks like now. It's not just dumping the ball inside to somebody and then everybody's standing around watching while he backs this guy down. It's a different game. And all of that factors in. And the AAU thing factors in too. I always referenced Baxter Holmes great piece from, I think it was 2019 on ESPN.com,

where it was a massive exploration and investigation into the wear and tear on players that's happening long before they ever get to the NBA. Adam Silver's quoted that story as having, you know, serious concerns about this, medical people, trainers, everybody. Like, this is a real thing. But a story like that happens and then it gets pushed to the background. And then we sit here and we fret about all these injuries. We fret about load management. And we say, why aren't guys playing more? Why are they? If we have all this load management, why do they still all get hurt? Because they're coming in with their bodies already degraded from the AU circuit in a lot of cases. And because the style of the game is different now. Like, and I don't, I don't know how the NBA deals with that. I don't know how this is fixable.

But it's a pretty big problem when you consider the list of names I ran down a minute ago. Well, I mean, what you're seeing is, you know, health versus capitalism here, right? Where, you know, Adam Silver on one hand is talking about how AAU is hurting and, you know, guys are, you know, getting hurt with the pace of play. But then, you know, he's adding an NBA cup with extra games that don't actually matter, right? Well, there's only one extra game, though, right? Like if you make it to the championship, it's one extra game. Everybody else is playing 80. But it's not just that.

But it's just not just that, right? Like if you say you do, like Coach Dags was talking about this a couple weeks ago, right? Where, you know, if you do strive for an NBA Cup, you're traveling an extra trip that you wouldn't otherwise travel. It also messes up, you know, you're scheduling when you're just a random trip to Vegas and then you come back to wherever you're going. And maybe you get a day off. Sometimes, most times you just don't get an extra day. and then what are you playing for, right? And so that's when I say that the capitalism comes into this, right?

Because that's extra TV money, that's extra TV dollars. And then I just don't say how you put the toothpaste back in the tube unless you just are honest with yourself and say, hey, we need to do what's best for the game. And while we may not get the extra bread from the NBA Cup or any other of these games, we'll have a healthier product that can play in these games. we'll have, you know, more players being able to play on more nights.

But I don't think this is just an NBA issue, right? The W goes through this, right? You know, Satu Sabaoli talked about how they play too many games, and they're going through that same thing with their collective bargaining agreement because the league wants more money to coming in. NFL, every year, it seems like they're trying to get an extra game on the schedule, right? So this is something that is going to be a sports-wide issue, having more games. So we'll just see what happens.

but I don't think that there's going to be a contraction even though there probably should be, right? Or if it's not the NBA, but it's, you know. Yeah. It's always, it's always, it's been too many games before Pace became an issue, before any of those factors. Like, 80, 82 games on a, on a body over that course of time and you factor in, you know, training camp and what have you.

Like, that's a lot of basketball, man. People, you learn how to really not feel your body, if that makes sense, right? Like you learn how to tune out a whole lot of things that ordinarily, if you didn't have to go play a sport for a living, you'd wake up and be like, yeah, what the fuck is that? Why do I feel that? But like when you're in the midst of that career,

those just become like your daily thing. So like your body is telling you the whole time. You know, no matter what the LeBron's do and what he does is an extraordinary thing to witness in terms of prepping his body for this task. It's really amazing to watch him invest in it and go through the process

of getting himself ready to play. And even in that world, he's still not feeling great when you go out there. Like you just can't. It's too many games. But I would say that, again, because this is my realm,

this is where I live now, what they do in youth basketball, and it is really capitalism at that point. Like anybody can throw a tournament now. So it used to be that AAU was kind of, the best of the best played that, right? And then it became like the shoe companies, if you're anybody on the scene as a high school kid,

you're playing in any of these shoe companies products. Like, AAU is kind of a backburner product now. But not only do they have that, but they also have, especially locally here in Miami, and I'm assuming it's like this everywhere else, but like where AAU doesn't throw something and when they don't throw something, they're all kind of local entities

that are just putting together, they're running out gyms, and they've got their league that people can go play in. And mom and dad always think that Jenny or Johnny is missing out if they're not playing. Somebody out there is getting better than them if they're not out there playing this weekend. And it's pervasive. Like, everyone's doing it. And I say to my wife all the time, because we get caught up in. I'm like, Cindy, this is too much.

Like there's too much. He does not need to be playing four games in. in December every weekend when that's going to go all the way through August. Like that, due to math. That's too much. Well, and by the way, the real proof of Logan's point and your point, Raja, about this being a capitalism versus health issue, is that if you design the NBA schedule right now from scratch,

in absence of any considerations about revenue TV contracts or anything else, you wouldn't go 82 games. You'd probably go 60, 66 or whatever it would be. And if you were doing it based on what the best balance is for highest level of competition, consistency of that competition, what's in the best interest of the players and their longevity, it would be a shorter season.

Everybody knows this. Everybody knows you would do it. You would have a shorter season if you were actually doing what was the healthiest and best for the product as a whole, as opposed to what makes the most money. And that's not even a criticism. It's just an observation. It's just the reality. And 82 game season would take, you know, reducing that would take both the players and the owners

agreeing to shorten it. And neither party wants to. The players will say that they do in certain moments. But when it comes down to it at the bargaining table, they're never going to agree to it because it's tens of millions, hundreds of millions, billions, billions, whatever it's going to be, reduction of revenue. We saw that in a bubble, right? When they were about to go in the bubble and they were like, the players were like, oh, I don't know if we're going to play this season. Then the owners came back and said, we're going to lose this many billions of dollars. And like, what, what, we're there. Where we got to go?

Oh, you want me to sequester myself for three months? Where do I say that? Two thoughts. Like, really, like honestly, you guys just touched on it. Like if you, every single, well, not every single person, most players, if put to them, hey man, we can shorten it. You'll feel better. Or we'll keep it as it is.

And you'll make more money. No brainer. Let's make the money. But secondly, weirdly when you said, like if you scheduled it, it would fall around 60. If you had just asked me generally, hey, man, what amount of games do you think you could play before you started feeling like really burnt out and shitty? I would have settled around 60 games.

Just off the top, like just knowing the ends and outs of a season, I would have told you, you know, anywhere from 55 to 65 games, you probably feel okay. Like that feels normal. And then when you start getting over those numbers, then you're starting to be like, Oh, shit, man. This is a, this is a grunt. Yeah. One last note before we get to the next, get the next segment. Wimby has been playing professional basketball since he was 15 years old.

It's 2019. This is very cut and dry about what's happening here. Cliff, what's the next segment, buddy? The next segment is my two favorite words in basketball. Howard Key, guess what they are? Detroit Basketball. baby, let's go. The pisses of one, the pistons of won 10 straight last night.

For the first time since 0708, the 12 and 2 first and he's Howard. Can you guess who was in that lineup for the pisses at night or no? In 0708, I have not looked this up. I just looked it up. I just looked it up. Rip Hamilton's still there? Rip Hamilton? Choncy's gone by then.

Is Iverson still there? No, no, no, no, no. Choncy still there. Choncy still there. Yeah. Chon's still there. Choncy still there. Chon's still there.

Choncee's still there. Yes, sir. She's still there. Who's this last guy? It's not Ben still, is it? No. Baller, though. Hooper, though. Super Hooper, though.

McDice? Yes. Oh, yeah. It was McDice. Look at you. Let's go, man. I'm happy. I'm if you all got that one.

Dude. Hold on real quick. I would like to note Howard did not pay attention in the pre-pod meeting that we had yesterday when I said that Choncy got traded, that summer for Iverson and to Denver and was a swap and it basically ended the Pistons run and supercharged

the Denver Nuggets to the... You said that in our meeting yesterday? I did. You don't pay attention, but it's cool. There was a meeting yesterday? That was a meeting. Wait, okay, all right. That was a meeting. I didn't pay attention either, Howard. Sometimes I just

space out, Logan. So that was a starting line of the last time they won they won 10 games straight in a row there. Jalen Duren last night. First of all, happy birthday to Jailen Duren, man. Had a hell of a game last night. Pissons whooped up on the Pacers,

1-207, hooping. The Pistons whipped up on the Pacers 1-27, 112. Dern dominated. 31 points, 12, 13, shoe and 15 rebounds, 3 assists. He's only the seventh time in NBA history that was recorded. The Detroit Pissons, 12 and 2, first in the East, Kunningham, hasn't even played

the last couple games. Fellas, how are we feeling about the Detroit Pissons, man? I'm all Detroit. I watched a M&M dockery documentary last night. I'm all in them to 3-13, man. I'm really up.

Everybody in the 3-13. Shout to everybody to 3-13, man. Yeah. No, I mean, I'll start. They're tough, man. They're, they're, and I mean that in, like, figuratively and literally.

They're tough as hell. Like, they are a very, very stout defensive team. I mean, they represent Detroit. And when you heard that Detroit basketball, when you were on the opposing team, you walked in that arena, you knew what time it was. Like, that shit was about to get physical.

It was about to get punitive. You were going to leave their icing some shit up. Like, that was going to be not the best poker game on the plane because everybody was going to be feeling something. That's kind of how they play. I mean, they, offensively, I mean, clearly, you know, Jalen Dern. made some huge strides at the player. I mean, just he had a possession last night,

like defended, boarded, pushed it down, went to set up offense, didn't like it, worked his way down into the post, like a no-pass possession and then gave him that work and hit the little jumper on the baseline. I was like, oh, shit. Like, he's come a long way. Cade, some of the pieces that they picked up

have all been helpful. But they're really physical, even offensively. I mean, they lead their league leader, or amongst them in points in the paint, right? Like they're a league leader or amongst them in offensive rebounds. These are physical style. This is physical basketball, though. Like this is stuff that you don't want to play against when you show up on the third

game of a road trip. Like you just don't want to see somebody that's going to beat you up physically. So they do those type of things. Defensively, they're very similar. You know, they're turning you over. They're blocking shots. they're amongst league leaders in terms of points against in the paint, which means they defend the shit out of the rim.

They're just a really good basketball team, man. And then they don't buckle. Like they've had multiple games where they're playing from behind and they just stick with that shit and they'll pull it out. Like there's some seasoning on that. So I think it's a very sustainable model. I think it's a, you know, a roster that's continuing to develop and get better. and I've said it.

This is any sport that is a contact sport. You give me almost equal skill levels, but one team that's clearly more physical and more aggressive than the other, I'll bet on that clearly more physical and aggressive team every single time. I might not win every bet, but over the course of time, I'm going to win more bets than I lose. To your point, though, I'll go ahead.

No, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. To your point, Raja, about the physicality. I have a stat that just adds on to that, right? They have the highest free throw rate in the league, but it doesn't matter because they allow the second lowest field goal percentage and the second lowest effective field goal percentage in the league.

That's a hat tip to Zach Harper from the athletic. But that tells me that they're kicking ass. And they say, yeah, you can get your points in a free throw line. That's fine. We're locking everything else up. We don't give a fuck. And then the second point to that is the East is so comically bad, especially when we talked about with Janus being hurt right now, right?

Because I'm looking at their upcoming schedule. And I'm thinking like, man, when are they going to get tested in a way where we can really see their metal? And tonight they play Atlanta. I don't know if I'm going to get a good gauge on who they are. Then they play Milwaukee when I just talked to you about Janus. And then they play Indiana and then they're at Boston. They have stretches like this because they're in the Eastern Conference where they could just run it up with the record. and also gain confidence.

And so when it's time to play somebody really good and they have their West Coast swing, they're going to be playing on all cylinders. This is a real team to watch. I think with their style of play, and I know Cliff is starting to have the biggest smile on his face right now, but with the style of play that they have combined with what the Eastern Conference is right now,

they could really be something during the regular season. I don't know exactly what they're going to be in the postseason, although they do play a great postseason brand of basketball. If you don't believe me, Axe the Knicks in that first round series last year. But I love the maturation that we're seeing from them. And I think during his ascension from being a double, double guy that is making, that was maybe 11 and 10, and now bumping that up to 20 and 10,

20 and 12, excuse me. It takes a lot of pressure off a Cade. and really gives them the depth that they need to be a contender because that's what you need. You need star power, but you also need depth, especially in this apron NBA. And I think that the pistons have it right now. And Durant is the key to all of that. It's not Kate. It is Durant.

The proof of that depth piece, Logan. So they've won 10 in a row, right? They've won the last three of those without Kate, because he's got the hip injury. They've won the last four without a Sarr Thompson. they missed Duren for two of those games. They haven't had Tobias Harris for the last eight games, almost forgotten Tobias Harris. Really key, important part of their breakthrough season last year,

and still probably an important part of this team. He hasn't played for a couple of weeks. And by the way, Jaden Ivy has yet to play this season. And he's probably coming back, I would think, in the next couple of weeks. Yeah, that's crazy. They have great depth. They've got a really nice mix of youth and vets.

and their youth are now playing like vets, right? Like Cade has made another leap. Not as dramatic of a leap this season, but he's, you know, notched it up a little bit higher again. He's averaging almost 10 assists a game, which would be a career high. He's averaging over six free throws,

excuse me, nearly eight free throw attempts per game, which is a career high and six made per game. During career highs in both points and rebounds. During career highs and free throws. in free throw attempts and free throws. Like they're aggressive. They are getting inside. They are collapsing defenses.

They are attacking. They're just, they're barely scratching the surface in some ways because of how young those two are. And they don't even seem to miss the guys that they let walk over the summer, right? Tim Hardaway Jr., Dennis Schrooter. Beasley's out there somewhere. Like they could use Beasley shooting. Like they signed Duncan Robinson.

But like they're still, like they're one of the lower teams and three-point shooting. They could still use more shooting. But man, and then they get, then they have discoveries like Dennis Jenkins, who's been filling in for Kade, who played for three different colleges, undrafted in 2020. He's on his second two-way deal with the pistons. The man's playing on a two-way deal. And in his last three games, the three starts he's made for Kade, he's averaging 21 and

nine assists. No, that, Howard, sorry, Howard. That struck me last night. I want you to keep going. But like, I remember being on a 10 day. And I was not acting like Buddy was acting last night when I watched. Like he, and not in a bad way, but like, he was like, this fucking ball is mine.

Yeah. That was pretty cool to watch. Firmly in control. Very confident for a guy on his second two-way deal after being undrafted. Oh, two-way. My bad. Two-way, yeah. I think that's two-way is like, but yeah, they didn't exist in your time, right?

Right. Well, I think the other thing, and I want to get Rod's perspective on. this though one thing that that really does strike me about the Detroit Pistons is when you want when you have teams at this stage you want an inherent motivation right and you want to inherit people that all have chips on their shoulders and I think that the Pistons I think what illustrates this play is the fact that they do have so many chips on their shoulders right when we talk about J.B. Bicker staff who is probably still filling this sting of losing the calves job and seeing what the calves have done it feels like he has something to prove right then

you have Cade who's the least. of the team who went through that 28 game losing streak and was the face of it. And we had real questions a few years ago, like, who is Cade Cunningham? Is he going to be a guy, right? And then, you know, you go down the roster of all these redemption stories and all these people. And that really puts something in their bones. And they have that chip on their shoulder.

And I think that we saw that last year, Rajan, I think we're going to get the graduation, if you will, of that this season. I really am high on the pistons from everything that I read and I see with my own eyes. Yeah, like motivation and hunger, that kind of innate chip, that's a hard, those are hard things to, quote unquote, talk about. Like, you got to be about that. That's got to be bred into you. It's got to be circumstantially, like, put into you by the way you've been treated.

Like, that's not something that you walk into a locker room with a bunch of dudes and just start, hey, man, we're going to have a chip on our shoulder. We're going to be tougher. Like, you don't do that. You have to accumulate pieces to your point, Logan, that have that feeling about themselves already. And it doesn't have to be everybody in your locker room. But you need a, you need a majority of people that kind of have that somewhere deep inside them. And then you need somebody and you gave J.B. as flowers because I was going to do it next. You got to have somebody that unlocks that and not just unlocks it, but embodies it himself. So when he's preaching that, the guys in that locker room that feel like that too, they can't see it as fake,

right? Because locker rooms will sift you out. Like if you're a poser, if that's just not real, they're going to find that out pretty quick. So they got to feel that when you're talking to them. And they've got the right mix of that. I think you're absolutely correct. They got the right mix of guys, coaches, circumstances. Obviously, you talked about how bad they were a few years ago for the perfect storm to be kind of like right now. And I just, I know what it's like walking into buildings. The Pistons were a team that were hard for us to be. We were really, really, really good offensive team, right? And there were other teams that were hard for us to be. But the Pistons specifically stick out to me because they weren't the

best offensive team. Quite the opposite. Yeah, they historically played very well against us and probably, I don't have the stats, but probably beat us more times than we beat them when I was on the team because of how physical they were, how that affected us as a team that wanted to be offensive driven. And then our defense that wasn't great was exposed even more because we didn't have tough enough dudes to stand up and take away some of the stuff they wanted to do over and over and over again

because of the punitive style they played, the punishing style that they were coming at you with. And so that, again, I know we live in a day and age. And I like, I love the shooting threes. I know what the analytics say, man, I'm for shooting a bunch of threes. And if they're open, I'm good with that. I'm not the old curmudgeon get off my long dude. But there's a part of me that loves physical, take you to this rack. I'm not giving you layups. I love that. I like to watch that. And I think it's sustainable, especially when you start getting deep into a season. I think it's a really, it's a really good thing to hang your hat on. I mean, that's, that's the, that's the formula for any team that wants to get maybe 45 wins. It's just to kick your ass. And,

and then you add on top of that with the pistons and what they, the talent level that they have, that's going to get them to 50. I don't know if I say 60 yet, but that's definitely going to get you to 50, 55 wins if you have the talent level and you have that motivation and then you also have that type of style of play where players don't want to play in that style. And I will say this though, Raja, I'm sure we can heck she next time he comes on the show, but I'm sure every time they saw the sons, you guys were in their wheelhouse of teams of like, oh, we want to kick their ass. Like we see them and we see their style of play and we want to fuck all that. We're going to see how they play in the trenches. So I could definitely

send, I feel like that identity is right here with this version of the Detroit Pistons. It's good because that's the identity of the city. Here's what's scary about them. They've got the third best defense in the NBA right now, which is what you would expect and which is what we've been talking about,

which is what Rajah is crediting them for. They're 15th and offensive efficiency. So kind of the outline of those great Pistons teams of the early to mid-2000s or mid-to-late 2000s, right? Elite defensively, great offensively. But then look at those teams back then, right? Like, Chonsie was very good, but Chonsie was, you know, never in the MVP race. He wasn't like an elite offensive player.

He was very, very good. He made the Hall of Fame, mostly because he took them to the championship was MVP of that finals. But, you know, Rip Hamilton, very good player. Sheed. You know, Ben Wallace didn't score at all. Ben Wallace is one of the lowest point per game averages in the history of the Hall of Fame. Like, this was not an offensively loaded team in any way back then. this one actually might be like not like Cade's going to be in the MVP race. Cade is an elite offensive player. Jaden Ivy has has great potential to be. And like Jalen Durrids already a better score than Ben Wallace was,

although I always say like if she'd wanted to be a 25 and 10 guy, his whole career he could have been. But this current Pistons team has a potential to be really great offensively. So they're not going to drop defensively. That third, you know, that top five basically like defensive efficiency rating is going to hold. But being middle of the pack offensively, I think they're only going up from there. They should be top 10 in both. And that leads to the to this. Like we were talking about this being a two-team race in the east, Cleveland and New York.

And they've both gotten off to kind of like, you know, good, solid but not dominant starts. Like, is this actually a three-team race? 100%. Are the pistons? 100. I agree. Are the pistons potentially actually the best team in the East? 100%.

I'll say we'll see, right? I'll say we'll see on that one. He said potentially. He said potentially for sure, for sure, for sure. I mean, because I'm really looking at this, they got Cleveland at Cleveland, January 4th, which is going to, and they have, it's a Cleveland, New York back to back, which is going to be great. But they have, they've had good wins.

They beat Houston, but they've, got their ass whooped against Cleveland. It was a second night to back to back early in the season. But they haven't really played a team that I'm just like, okay, this is the arrival game. I'm looking for the arrival game right now. And I think we're going to see that later in the season. And I guess that does add to your potentially argument, right? Yeah, potentially.

Because I mean, who have, I mean, I don't know who everyone's played, but who of the Knicks and the Cavs, have they played anybody that would give you that? Hey, like, game for them this year? Where they have arrived? Or we're just going off of what they were last year, right? I'm going on my argument of what they were last year and they're just institution right now. Yeah, I think the Nixon, the Nixon Cavs, we already know who they are, right? They've had deep playoff runs last couple of years.

It's the Pistons who were waiting to see if they have enough of those signatures. And the Caves had had like weird losses, right? The Caves have had weird losses. Like that Serrano lost last week was kind of weird. But, you know, they still have the institution, right? This is weird. But like, look, I know New York won the matchup last year against the Pistons. but I felt like the Pistons were right there.

Like that was not, you know, that wasn't like, hey, clearly the, it didn't stick out to me as like, you know, one of these teams is, you know, fighting above their weight class. This was a, that was a series. So I think they were closer already than we give them credit for being. But those teams could have the credit. I mean, Cleveland did some really cool stuff last year in New York, obviously, you know, did beat them and went on to do what they did.

But like, I think Detroit was a little bit close. or I just want to add just from a player's perspective, people ask me a lot about tough places to play. And I very rarely, if ever, have said Detroit. And that is a miss because when they have the type of team that reflects their city, that building is as difficult to plan as any building in the NBA. When that thing is rocking and they've got the people that they think represent them and they're fully behind them, that is a fucking tough place to play. That is a really, really good fan base.

And so I just felt like I needed to say that because those things become important for a team that is trying to take a step into playoffs. When your building is a real building, you know, it just means a town now, man. Like when y'all play back in the day at the palace, y'all might not even see, y'all didn't even see Detroit. Y'all don't even see, you're going to the airport, so just to boonies. Now, like you're seeing Detroit. You're locked in. You know, you're, you are, you see everything.

You're right in the middle of it. That downtown's popping now. Like, it's a different beast right now. All right, we want to, I mean, appropriately went big on the Pistons, but we do have another segment in mailbag that we have to get to. So let's get to Michigan native Draymond Green. Had an incident with a fan played the Pelicans the other night and the 124-106 victory. Draymond and the fan late in the second quarter, they had a discussion.

The guy got in his face. He seemed like there was some little friendly banter going on there. Draymond said after the game, it was a good joke at first, but you can't keep calling me a woman. I've got four kids and one on the way. Can't keep calling me a woman. He got quiet, though. So it was fine. Fellas, how you all feel about these fan interactions that's been happening recently? And the guy getting in Jemont's face and face to face, I mean, the dude was tall. He was, you know, I mean, put his hands up, tried to look innocent.

Howard, I want to go to you on this one. How do you feel about these fan player interactions with dudes sitting on the sideline, you know, having that access to the floor? How do you feel about that? I'm glad this one kind of just ended more or less peacefully. The dude got a red card or something. You saw like security walk over and like hand him a car. I think it has. I think it has. actually looked, it was actually red, I think. Like, he basically was like, here's your warning. We're not kicking you out, but like, chill, dude. And then report today from ESPN that, the NBA has quietly conveyed a warning to Draymond,

to please chill as well. All as well that ends without anything happening, I guess, but for a moment there, when you're watching it in real time, it's like, oh, ooh, all right, this is not going to get weird, is it? This is not going to get messed up. You don't like seeing it. Like we had a whole rash of incidents whenever it was. Like it was like right after COVID when fans start come back to buildings and like popcorn being thrown at Russ and like a water bottle thrown at whatever.

Like was that was that Kyrie? There was all kinds of shit going on for a while there. And it kind of settled down again. Thankfully. Fans, listen, man, like you buy the ticket. You go, you cheer, you boo. You yell a few things.

You chant a few things. But there are boundaries. and I don't know that this guy crossed any boundaries. I did, like, the body language, like, the body language put me off, right? Like, what he said to Dremont was more supposed to be about a joke about, like, a bunch of rebounds and no, you know, didn't score at all, whatever. He compared him to Angel Reese. Yeah.

Basically, that Angel Reese doesn't look to score, just like Dremont doesn't look to score. Right. So Dremont took it as a slight because Dremont took it through a sexist prism of, you're calling me a woman or compare me to a female player, which has its own issues, but we'll put that to the side for the moment. Dremont doesn't have to react to that. And fans are allowed to say a lot of things as long as you are not being abusive, as long as you're not using a lot of profanity and causing issues, discomfort for the fans around you.

Like, there are some, it's a, it's a, it's a fine line there. I don't know the guy said anything untoward, but like when Dremon walks over, Draymond shouldn't have walked over He probably should just let it be But once it happens The guy basically like standing up Like basically like saying like it looked like he was saying Like so what's up?

Like I was kind of like dude Don't don't tempt fate here like don't You're not the show Just like you had your fun Sit down and shut up and enjoy the game But yeah Glad to see it was it was settled Without anything else happening

I did look this up because I was curious Like we always think oh here we go Dremont and another incident here It's actually been two years now since the Nurkich and Goberra incidents, which then led all the suspensions, Draymond's been pretty self-contained since. He gets his text, and he's usually among the leaders, but it's not excessive. He's gotten his flagrants, but nothing particularly excessive.

Like, he has kind of really, I think, rained himself in pretty well by Draymond standards for the last couple of years. But that was the first time in a while where I was like, oh, God, here we go. Where is this going to go? But yeah, fans need to kind of, you know, check themselves occasionally. This guy seemed like he wanted a little bit too much of Dremont. Resident player, do you have any, do you have any, I mean, you're the player. I mean, I don't really have much to add to that.

I think that was pretty well, you know, articulated by Howard there. I don't. I too agree that what was being said to Dremont didn't rise to the level of what I would have found offensive as a, as a. as a player um you know but this is life and i try to tell my kids this too you don't know what the person that you're engaging will find offensive so if you're calling them out of your name out of their name in any kind of way um you then must be prepared for whatever that person does after that right so like i don't love fans i've i've always said this i love i love cheering

I love booing. And again, I don't think he crossed the line. But a lot of times they do. And that access sitting right there in the front row is just, it's tough when you catch the wrong person. Thankfully, you know, like it didn't rise to that. I'm with you, Howard. You know, I'm not. Look, once you realize that you've triggered Draymond and you're the spectator there, sit your ass down.

Sit down. like sit down don't don't stand there because we're one spitlet away unintentionally away from him tearing your face off right like you guys are standing there face to face you know you're talking he's talking spit comes out of his mouth it hit like anything can happen when you guys are chest to check go go sit your ass down that i but ultimately i don't think draymond at that point after what was said if it was just comparing him to Angel Reese, I don't think that warrants a player going over there and engaging like that, right? But like, you know, hey man, that's, you call me out of my name. There's, you know, that comment's not going to do it to me,

but you go a little further and keep calling me out of my name, like, I'm going to have to talk to you. Yeah. I mean, I think that also we live in an age where, you know, people know instantaneously, if they get a player to come over to them, it's a moment. It's kind of like where we are, like, with Twitter or like with any comment section whatsoever right now, where like they're really just saying this shit

to elicit a reaction. Like, I don't know to do it, but I do know there are a lot of fans there that I've seen with my own eyes that will try to trigger a player. And as soon as they come up to them, they kind of get giddy and excited because they know the cameras are on them and stuff. And like they try to like, like, you kind of even saw it with the dude where as soon as

Draymond came over, he was like, what, what, what? Just posturing and like just trying to make a moment out of it. And you start to see that more and more because they know that that shit is about to get clipped. They know that that is about to be, you know, talked about on a podcast like this or in a comment section. And they get their little 15 minutes of fame at the expense of a player that has to deal with this all the time, right? And so, do I like the comment that Draymond made afterwards? Not really,

because it really was, it didn't really come off that well and it didn't really feel thought out. Like, you don't like being called a woman because you have kids, like, or are about to have more kids that just didn't track. That just didn't make any sense. But I do get the sentiment of like, yo, man, why are you like bothering me, bro? Like, this is where I work. And you're continuing, Like if we're in a situation, take basketball out of this, if I'm saying something that's clearly irritating you hell of times and you don't like it no matter how much it makes sense or doesn't make sense. And you keep saying it to somebody's like, yo, stop saying that.

And you keep saying it no matter how stupid it is, there's going to be a problem. Like that's just what it is. And you have to deal with that. But I think this one, it felt like the fan was trying to get a little bit of a moment, even though the joke wasn't that bad, it felt that way. If you say that once or twice, like I get it.

But like, if you say three, four, five times you're sitting where you're sitting, you can expect somebody to come at you because in real life that would happen too for less. So, yeah, so I see all the sides on it,

but I'll use this opportunity to ask this question because we're here now. Do we, I'll start with Howard because he's the chief warrior's apologist on this podcast. Stop it. Are you, are you, are you, are you, um, all in on the warriors after this recent stress? They're looking pretty good. Or how are you feeling about the Golden State Warriors right now?

I'll, I'll answer that in a second. But before we leave this topic, Logan, I do want to come back to one other thing because there is, I did the, the, the, the, uh, Dremont versus fan thing. Reminded me of something I wanted to ask Raja about speaking of, uh, occasional short, short triggers. Um, but we'll come back. Go ahead. I'll come back to it. No, I don't want to derail us yet. I'll derail us at the end of it.

All right. So the warriors. We're best off the rails, bro. Like, made me all mistakes about that. All right, going on my bet. Warriors beat the Spurs twice last week. Like, we talk about signature wins. We're waiting for the Pistons to have maybe some signature wins.

Like, the Warriors being the Spurs twice in the span of days, I thought was significant. Now, the Spurs are not an established contender yet. I know, but great start to the season. Wemby's one of the best players in the league. He was still playing then. The wars of that four and one start, they get sluggish for a bit. They drop to six and six, then they've won three in a row since. Like, they're really up and down.

Like, I don't know that anything has changed my opinion of them other than I think they've weathered some storms already. They've had some good comminga, some bad comminga, now an injured comminga. They're still really, really frighteningly dependent on Steph. to be honest, like as much as Jimmy Butler has added to them, this is still like, and then the drop off after Steph and Butler to the rest of that group scoring wise. And who you can rely on night tonight, I think is concerning. The front court's still concerning. I don't like, nothing's changed. They have had a brutal schedule as, as Kerr mentioned the other day on radio out there. He put it this way. It was their 17th game.

The Miami game was their 17th game in 29 days in 13 cities. Kerr says it's been the toughest early schedule I've ever been part of in my entire life. They've had like a shit ton of back to backs. They've got the most road games in the league so far with 10 that they've weathered. This is actually a pretty good sign for them. But I don't know. They look good. But I'm not ready to proclaim them like, you know, the biggest threat to Oklahoma and Denver yet.

proud of you very proud of you stop it good job i mean you know i'm proud of you i i don't have any notes because that's what i would have said to you know good job um i can't i can't derail raja logan sending me private text telling me not to uh uh go on this tangent well we'll save it for another day yeah relax um we have two we have one more segment than we have mailback um what's going on on cliff i vote for off the rails bro i'm just telling you uh back to the The Pelicans. He fired the coach. Willie Green.

He had to get fucking fired, bro. They fucking suck. What the fuck? What the fuck are you supposed to say to that? Like, they fucking suck. They fired Griff a year ago. They suck again. I love Willie Green.

He fucking sucked. He got to get fired. Segment. Is that a segment, guys? I guess so. I mean, do we have any of this break? Like, like, can we say why he got fire? Like, what do you say?

Why he got fire, Ron? What do you mean why they got by? They fucking sucked. Because he works for a shit franchise? And they gave up on him, even though they should have fired him in the summertime if they were about this life. But then they clearly,

and they said it a statement, like if you read between the lines, they clearly didn't trust him, which means why would they trust him now? Why would they trust him now if they didn't trust him in the off season? This team is a shit show. Just all the way around.

Dumars is, he's not helping his reputation, man. It was pretty bleak as an executive coming into this aside from the Pistons run. But like, it is, it's pretty bleak. Yeah, he set this franchise back at least a decade, maybe two. I think that's it. I think this is free willy green, man. You're about to go on vacation.

The money's guaranteed, bro. Go on go somewhere and you'll be back. You'll go and leave an elite assistant next year. Yeah, he'll be someone's top assistant somewhere. He'll get another job. More fun. Also, I would just say this. Everybody told him not to take this job when they,

when he was up for this job. And he still took it. Everybody told him, like, why would you do this? And I get, you know, best to be in. Yeah, you got to take it, bro. You don't always get a choice of like, I know. It's a bigger conversation,

but we don't always get to choose, like, how we get in. So sometimes you just got to get in. This is a cheap franchise, badly run franchise in a bad arena. 13 seasons under the Benson family. Tom Benson bought them in 2012. now it's Gail Benson. 13 seasons under the Bensons,

four winning seasons out of 13, four playoff appearances, one playoff series win that was back in 2018. They've had five coaches in that time, counting James Barago, who's now the coach, and three GMs,

which a new GM every three to four years is not great, not the most excessive I've ever seen, but that's trending toward like, you know, King's territory or Nixon in the mid-2000s territory. And it ain't like they,

have players. They had Anthony Davis. And they tried to make it work with the Anthony Davis cousins thing. And I feel for the fan base, because I feel the fan base is very, you know, very online. But they're also like very active. And I feel like if they had a winner, they will cheer for a winner. And they still cheer for

winners. I mean, they still chill for the team at the current state that it's in with no hope in sight. One Kendrick Perkins disagrees with you, by the way. Former Pelican, Kendrick Perkins. Did you see this from the road-tripping podcast? What do you say? What Perk say? Here's the problem with New Orleans, Perk says. Great city. One of my favorite cities to live in. They're always going to be second to the New Orleans Saints. That city's all about the Saints from the ownership down to Mickey Loomis.

They don't give a damn about the Pelicans. It's so bad, meaning as a player that if you want to eat, you know how all NBA organizations have first class facilities with breakfast, chefs, post-practice meals? In New Orleans, you leave the Pelicans facility and you've got to walk across the street to the Saints facility just to eat. And all your food is in boxes in the cafeteria. Now, Perk, I don't know if he's out of line there because like that was several years ago. Maybe that's improved since, but that was Perks take. No, no, no, no, no. But Tony Allen said the same thing. No, I think, I think that's true. That's a few years back too. No, there, yeah, yeah, their facilities might be better, like, because I haven't been around for longer than those guys

haven't been around. Um, but that's different than the fan base. Like, they, they, they, they are second, they are second fiddle to the saints without, without question. Within their ownership. Yeah. Most NBA teams, if you're in a major city, probably are, right? Like, I mean, the Niners are like it in the Bay Area. Football's king, right? So, like, I don't think that's unique to that fan base, but I was going to say to the point you made, Logan, when we played there, sneak, terrible arena at the time. Terrible. Terrible. However, pretty good fan base. Like, they were there. They were there.

They were rowdy. Like, they were supportive. I felt. Now, Perk played there, so he probably knows, you know, more than me. But his argument based on the quote is that we're second fiddle to the Saints, which is true, right? They share a practice facility with the Saints. They have, while the Superdome was getting all of these renovations, smoothie king still looks like it's 1997. and you know like it's it's more of a higher I feel like if they had a I don't know man

it's I think it's too far gone for a new ownership and a new building and all those things but like I feel like if they invested them as a standalone I think that they you could you could do something there but you know it is what it is um okay that was longer than rajid anticipated let's go to mailback yeah all right let's get to the first mailbag this is from robert dean what up beck hope Logan raja you and the whole whole real ones team are doing well and loving this fun season. Looking at the current future West megastars, Lucaset, Edwards, Wembe, and an aging Joker.

Do the wolves and Edwards team have the worst future? I see a Trey or Laurie trade in the future for the wolves, but could Edwards be the next megastar to go to the east and try to dominate a.k.a. LeBron style. Reading for an OKC title defense, Robert Dean. Howard, that was for you. So we have a thunder fan crapping on all the other West stars, especially Anthony Evers, or not crap around,

just saying like, seemingly rooting for their demise. That parade was like still 15 minutes long, Howard. Hmm? Oh, that, that, that thunder parade, that this fan was probably a part of it. I'm not making any more jokes about the late of Oklahoma cities downtown. I already got, I already got caught in the carpet back in the spring for that.

So of the current West megastars, he says, Lucas Shea, anti-Iwards, Wambi, and Joker, do the wolves in Edwards have the worst, future. Well, like, Shea and the Thunder have the best future by far, because obviously, duh, young talent picks everything. Luca, I don't necessarily trust the Lakers to build around Luca. We've talked about that before, but we'll see. Wembe will be fine. Spurs are in great shape. So, yeah, out of that group, I think by default, Anthony Edwards has perhaps the most concerning

or hardest to figure future. But I'll say this. Like, I think the new owners, I think Mark Lori and Alex Rodriguez are going to invest. I don't think we're going to have to worry about the Tim Wolves being, cheaping out the way that Glenn Taylor used to. They got a great front office with Tim Connolly. So no, like I, I think Anthony Edwards in that team are going to be fine. It's probably of that group, it's between him and Luca who you'd have the worst or the most concerns for about quote unquote worst future.

I don't know though. Like I get your skepticism on what the Lakers can do to build around Luca, but I I'm not as skeptical as you are because you're a Laker Homer. Is that why? Yeah, exactly that part. But more so because Rob Polinka, and we've talked about this before, the current front office, I would definitely have concern over, right? But since Rob Polika's on the clock and they have new ownership who just,

we're talking about the Dodgers and what they have been doing, if they put that sauce and put more resources like we've been talking about with the Lakers around Luca and they, if Polinka isn't on his shit, he can. see the door, right? He doesn't have necessarily, like, he does have Jeannie in his corner, but that can only take you so far in this, a new regime with the Lakers. So that's all I'm saying. No, you know, I agree with you on that. You, like, that is, I do think Polink is on the clock quietly. That's not sourcing. That's not anything. Don't fucking aggregate it. Um, but like, logically, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. Like, logically with new ownership coming in,

even though Jeannie's supposed to be the governor for the next five years or whatever it's going to be, she is the one who hired Rob Polinkas. She's the one with the relationship with him. Mark Walter and his group do not necessarily. And I think it's fair to scrutinize Palinka's track record during his time where he gets the stars because they want to come there. But the roster building around them has not consistently been very good. And I do wonder what the next 10, 12, 15 months hold on that front. asshole you I started it

you swung you swung first let's get to the next one this is from Shay Stobert question for the pod fellas long time listener

love all the work y'all do quick question what do you guys feel might be the biggest issue that the NBA has to face during the back half

of the 2020s and more importantly how do you feel the league will respond keep on keeping on gentlemen all the best Shay that's an interesting question

I think the biggest We talked about the first biggest thing, which is player health. I think that's the biggest thing that we need to figure out. For all the strides we've made towards player health, we're seeing more injuries at an alarming rate. But I think the other thing is accessibility, man. And I think you're seeing that across all sports where I think players are, or not players, excuse me, fans, it's harder than ever to watch games.

We can watch games because we know we covered a league and have expensive accounts and all of those things to see it. but pricing to get into games is more expensive than ever, especially in my market. I know in Howard's market, maybe in Rogers market, but it's harder than ever to watch. And you have a commissioner that saying, I think that's another,

that quote is going to haunt Adam Silver. What he said is like, oh, y'all can just watch the highlights. My biggest fear is that the NBA, where other leagues are being more accessible to the fans and showing most of their games on cable and where you can get games, the NBA is going to go to a place

where it's the most digital and the most highlights driven and kind of push away from the consumer. And I think, you know, that's an all-sports problem, but particularly an NBA problem as well. So that's something I think is the biggest concern is just accessibility. Yeah.

I think it's the injuries more than anything. We talked about it earlier. And I don't know how they solve that one. Like, there are other things, right? There's, you know, there's the fact that that, that finding games now is tougher than ever because they've now got multiple streaming services. Like,

I don't know how many times this has happened to you guys already, but like I'm watching Peacock last night and then something's happening in one of the other games. I wanted to flip over. I can't just flip over. Now I got to connect back to my DirecTV and then I got to go find that game. And then like, oh, now I got to fire Peacock back up. And that takes a second. Like maybe my TV is not that fast or something.

But I don't know about you guys. There's a long delay every time I fire up streaming again and got to go back to that app. So, like, things like that, length of games sometimes, all the replays. Like, there's a lot of little things, but like if there's one thing in the next five years, I think it's player hell. Also, I mean, elephant in the room, gambling. You know, that's taking a big toll, not just from like the headline perspective, but just what it does psychologically. We don't know. I mean, Roger talks about this all the time about how the young kids are starting to get influenced and it's such an omnipresence.

This next generation, how it was normalized it is. I think it can get tricky. Anything? You got thoughts, Roger? I'm going to do one more question. Okay, one more question. And then, you know, we can, you know, we can, uh, kick it out. All right, last question.

This is from Hans Harne, the surging Hornets. The Hornets piece of surge without the mellow, a little less. Must have caught your eyes. What do you think is the reason? How do you like Cogniple and Kalkenbrenner's future? How has Charles Lee gotten the most out of his players? Thank you for putting up such a wonderful content over the years. Much appreciated Hans.

Sounds like a Raja question. Definitely not a Roger question. Not watching a lot of Hornets. Definitely not a Roger. I mean, listen, the Hornets are four in ten. I'm not going to get carried away. They lost three straight. What are we doing, bro?

Are you serious? I like Cinniple. Caniple's been good. Yeah, I like Cigiple. And Cockburners been good. And Brandon Miller can't stay healthy. And Lamello can't stay healthy. the mellow even though I praised him for coming out of the gates playing more efficiently

early on then he got hurt then he came back and he's still been kind of all over the place so I've been so mad at you for it I was so bad at this podcast anymore when we were just like what are we doing right now I thought you were going to disconnect that day I thought you were just going to like fucking throw the laptop out I'm so upset what Nick what are we talking about why do yeah can we just cut that whole can we cut that whole fucking thing and just why don't we even do that who asks this question I told me Hans. Hans ex-ed. Shout out to you, bro, for listening, but like...

What the fuck, man? Stop. You got to earn the right to be talked about on this podcast. Everybody's like, why are you talking about my team? Because they're not relevant. Sorry. Thoughts, Raja? Raja had a rant.

I wanted to have a rant, too. Roger's been sick and tired of this pod for the last 15 minutes, so we probably want to get out of. My vote is... I just told you what my vote is. Like, ask another question and just cut that little. Oh, okay. Do you want to ask one more? Cliff, we got another question?

Like, if you want three, do another one. That was like... Okay, yeah, this is a real quick one right here. This just came in this morning. Actually, two hours ago. This is from Tommy Statler. Do you all think the Clippers can't fire Talu because they're worried he snitched them out?

That's a good question. That's awesome. I like that question. That's awesome. Yeah, he knows where all the bodies are buried, like, you got to keep him, close. I don't think it's time.

But all jokes aside. It's not, you don't fire him. I don't think you fire him right now. He might get fired this year. But I think, I think, yeah, like, he very easily could get fired this year. I'm talking about it two pods ago. But like, I don't think if I'm being fair to T. Liu, that should have happened off of what are we, 12 games in right now?

Yeah. It's not his fault, though. Like, this team sucks. This team is terrible. From all, like, I watched them last night and, you know, Cliff's team got the win. But their offense is essentially James Harden go do everything. And that's like, that works when he's 20-something.

But he's like, damn near pushing 40, bro. Like, what are you? Do you expect him to be the best player? And then on top of that, like, they ain't got no picks. I don't know why they gave Kauai all that money, guaranteed, after the games and the non-games that he played. I'm just so sick of the Cliffers, man. I'm just so sick of them. I'm so sick and tired of watching them. I'm so sick and tired. Hold on, Howard. Let me clear out. Clear out. Watch out. I'm so sick and tired of the narrative that they are the team and they are so forward thinking. And they're there. We should to watch out for the Clippers every year. I'm so sick and tired of it. I'm tired of it. Free T. Lou. Because when he, if and when he gets free, there's going to be a lot of teams out there. Even though I don't think that like they've invested in.

he'll be a lot of teams out there that will be dying to get tayloos services tyloo's a top five coach in the NBA and if he did get fired he'd get snapped up very quickly uh and and logan's lakers should have hired him several years ago all right man time to go um me and raja on friday i'm tired i know raja's tired he fell asleep i saw that i don't think i didn't see that raja i saw i saw the i saw the eyes go down uh i've been there before um we'll see you guys on friday me and rachel Roger. This is a great show. I'm tired. All the shits. Bye.

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