The Ringer NBA Show - Western Conference 'Survivor' | Group Chat

Episode Date: March 9, 2023

In the style of ‘Survivor,’ Justin, Rob, and Wos cast their votes for every team in the Western Conference. Who will be voted off the island first, and who will ultimately be declared the best team in the West? Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Eduardo Ocampo Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier joining me, Rob Mahoney, Big Was, and gentlemen. We start this day, March 8th, Year of Our Lord, 2023, and the Sacramento Kings are the number two seed in the Western Conference. Did you ever think you'd see a day, Was? Yeah, but I figured I'd probably be filing for AARP at this. this point, still working because our government's trying to raise the retirement age, but definitely up there in age, I got so used to not seeing these guys, not just in the

playoffs, but certainly not in the upper echelon, getting home court and just, you know, looking like studs out there. Do you still think you're going to be potting at 70, just like hologram was beaming into people's homes or something? Why not? I'll still have stuff to complain about. I don't think I'll be potting in seven. weeks, let alone 70, but I guess we'll play this thing out. Rob, you're vaguely local. Can you hear the faint sounds of the cowbells, like emanating over the plains in Sacramento? You know, I wish I was close enough that I could see the beam off in the distance. That's really, I need to move just far enough away that I can see the

beam, I can have that beacon of hope, that I can be inspired myself to follow the King's lead and be whatever the equivalent of second place is in my own personal Western conference. I need to get to that level. Well, that's a good second. because today we are talking about the topsy-turvy jumbled-up Western Conference, which even though we talked about this a good deal last week, I feel like, is in completely different shape than it was just a couple days ago. What we're going to do today is we're going to play a little Western Conference Survivor, which our loyal fan base might remember because I believe we did an Eastern Conference version of this schick around this time last year. Unfortunately,

my fellow co-hoats do not remember this at all. Because as soon as I suggested we do this, you're like, what does that mean? I feel that way about most of your schicks, to be honest. We need a full explainer pre-show just to know what we're doing. We skip that step today. So can you please tell us what is going on? Okay. So the show Survivor, which has been on for 20 years and is one of the greatest reality. No, I'm kidding. Basically what we're going to do is we're going to go through the top of the West. I guess we don't have to do number 15 and 14 just because

the Rockins and Spurs are pretty awful. But we're going to vote out teams that we don't believe in. It's basically a confidence meter. And like we're going to vote out the ones we don't believe into the point where we get the play

in teams, the playoff teams, the top four, top two, number one. Does that make sense? Yes. So are we voting them out like in batches or are we just kind of going up from the bottom reverse power ranking style like how are we doing this it's essentially like a draft but yeah in order of terrible teams so your first pick is going to obviously be the rockets right um they're they're a dub and then we get to the teams that are in playing contention then ultimately you know we argue over

who's left and who didn't get to it. and, you know, I know I've got a couple of spicy picks up my sleeve. And so, yeah, I understand that. Okay, well, let's start haggling it out then, I guess. Yeah, the difference is just that it's Survivor themed. And thus, if Eduardo wants to, like, drop in a couple of, like, I'm not going to make the noises because I don't think I'm allowed to, but, like, you know, just a little flourishes.

If we want to bring, like, you have a lighter over there, you want to bring your torch to the voting, I'll allow it. But, you know, it's up to you, Rob. What's like the, isn't there like an immunity idol? Is there like a protection? Can we, can we vouch for a team to save them? Are there any other mechanics I need to know about? Sure, man.

We could, we could talk it through. Okay, let's figure it out. All right. So, do we need to talk about the Rockets and the Spurs? Do we want to differentiate between the two worst teams in the NBA? No. They're both very bad. I mean, do we want to give them any note or notice at all?

We haven't really talked about either of them in a while. it's your last chance man so get it in you know Devin Vesel is back for the spurs which makes them look vaguely like a real basketball team again which is nice otherwise like San Antonio's been a bit of a cast off graveyard

it's like where Devante Graham shows up you know like where did Sandro Mamichelichvili wind up after getting cut by the bucks the answer is the San Antonio Spurs so they are in like the let's cycle through some guys portion of the developmental program

Just to interject And just so we can snitch on ourselves Really quickly Justin, when's the last time you watched a game that's like watched the game The Spurs were involved in? The Spurs, it's been a very long time. I'll check out the Rockets occasionally

Just because I want to watch Shengoon Like do a Dream Shake every like 10 days or so. It just they just do not They don't touch my league pass. I can't do it, Rob. I don't possess your professional dedication or masochism, whichever one it is.

I don't have either one of those, the heart, especially, you know, you live with your significant other, this one big old TV or else you have to watch whatever you like on your laptop. How do you justify turning the spurs on to your one TV and your crib? That's crazy to me. It's not how could you do this to yourself, but how could you also inflict it upon another person? It's wrong. It's wrong. Your fellow human being, Rob.

Well, you really haven't missed much. I would say the only thing of note of the Spurs, you know, from the Spurs of late, is their first round pick, late first round guy, Malachi Branham, has been coming on. He's been playing a lot. It's that stage of the season, right? All of a sudden, late first round pick starts scoring a lot. You know, he's like kind of crafty, kind of fun. We'll see, you know.

Rob, I will get to know that young man at the Thomas and Max Center in July. Thank you very much. As God intended. Yeah. So I guess what you're saying, Rob, is you want to vote the rockets out first and then the Spurs. That is what I'm saying, but honestly, it's a, it's a pretty fine line between them. They're both very bad. They're both very far out of the playoff race.

I'm fine, punting them both into the Survivor's Sun at this point. Great. All right. So number 13 now, this is when it gets pretty tricky because the Utah Jazz are currently in 13th. They're 15 and a half games back of the Denver Nuggets all the way up to, the Dallas Mavericks at 5th who are 12 and a half game backs. Math tells me that's

just three games separating 13 from 5. Really a lot of these teams can go in any order. Was, where do you want to start first? What's the first team of these all pretty good but not really good teams that you want to get out of here?

The Memphis Grizzlies. First? Yeah, they're done. They're done. This is done. They're finished. They're finished. They're finished, y'all. They are finished.

Like, John Moran is out indefinitely for, I don't know if y'all can make sense to that statement that he gave about being stressed and tired and management and whatever. It's not being called a suspension, and so therefore it's indefinite. We don't know what the hell is coming out. We don't know if he's coming back this season. There's no indication that that's definitely happening.

And if I don't know what's happening with John Morant and Dylan Brooks gets to be the number two perimeter offense offensive player, shot creator on that team, they're my least favorite when you consider the turmoil and what's left. I think it's really nasty and smelly what's happening right now with Memphis.

Now, if John Moran comes back and he's, you know, of course, he's John Moran one of the best players in the league, then cool, but like, there's no guarantee that that's the case. And what's afflicting him, we don't even know, outside of the trouble that he's been in with the law and civil lawsuits and all of that kind of stuff. So to me, this is the messiest of them all, because this guy is the focal point of everything there. He's the star, the sun, the moon, the ocean, whatever you want to call it. And if that's in flux, they're done this, they're done this year.

There's nothing good happening for them this year with no Jama rent. So yeah, yeah, Memphis, I promise some spice. I mean, you delivered. Counterpoint, the New Orleans Pelicans exist. Yes, that's fair. That is fair. You know, if we're talking about teams that who knows that their star players are going to be around or not,

or available, or will play it all the rest of this season, kind of hard to overlook the fact that Zion's absence has been felt so profoundly in New Orleans. And we talked about that a lot last week. I don't think we need to get into the nuts and bolts of it too much. But they are just like as untrustworthy as teams get in their current state to the point that I would nominate them next. I take your points about Memphis. I just think that some of these other teams like the Lakers, even the Lakers without LeBron, Portland with all their problems.

Like at least there's a possibility that John Morant plays this season. and if he does, that team is pretty good. They still have stuff to, you know, they have to figure out their half-court offense. Now they're down Brandon Clark, which really hurts them out for the season with the Achilles injury. But at least John Morant could conceivably play.

Yeah, and stop, yes, he could conceivably play. I'm just going off the assumption again, from what these guys have said, oh, we're keeping it. We don't know, which means God only knows winner if he's coming back this year, right? Yeah. And watching them play against the Lakers last night,

And, and again, the Lakers without LeBron, okay? It was quite pitiful. And the people who would have to shoulder the burden of John Moran's absence, I just don't think they're equipped to do so. Even against, and again, it's a one-game sample, but even against a lowly Laker team that doesn't have LeBron, you see what their glaring shortcomings are in a half-court setting. And so that's why I went with that.

Because I'm just like, even without LeBron and Lakers, if you put these two teams together. So you're not a fan of Jaron Jackson Jr. Isoing against Dennis Schroeder on a crucial late possession against the Lakers. That's not what you're going for in crunch time. Yeah, I would refer to the Pat Ewing meme. Do you practice that shot?

Is that part of your game? No, that's not in your game. So don't do it. I guess the upside there is. So Bain had a particularly awful game last night, three for 14, 0 for 5 from 3. You would assume that he's going to play better, and he did play better in the first game without John Morant the other day.

And just like the track record they've had of playing so well last season in particular without Jha. I know Clark's out, Adams is out, who apparently is like prime shack for this team at this point. But there's like they have all this stuff in the reserve. It's kind of like my criticism of New Orleans last week and we can get into it this week too if we want. But it's just like they have a lot of stuff.

Their whole selling point is that they have some. much of stuff. Let's see the stuff do some stuff. You know what I mean? Like, they should have the depth at the very least to be better than a Utah, a trailblazer, some of these other teams that I have like virtually no confidence in. I don't think this team without Johns better than Utah or Portland. I don't know if you've seen who's playing for Utah these days, but it's mighty bleak. It's like it spurs, it's Rob coming up with players that we don't even know if they're real or not. Sure. And you know what? It's fair because Utah is finally getting into April mode. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, April NBA basketball mode. And that's fair. Can I read you the rotation for the jazz just really quickly last night? A game that they almost won. So I don't even know how much this matters. But so they had Mark and Olenic Abaji in the starting lineup. Taylor is now starting. He took 14 shots last night. And then they have a guy from Italy named Simon Fadaccio Jesus Christ Simone Fontecio Come on

he's been playing all year How much has been playing Off the bench Rudy Gay Wantisano Anderson Damian Jones Chris Dunn who I believe is on his second 10 day

and Johnny Juzang yet another player I've never heard of Chris Dunn's siding is the ultimate death knell and I do I do take your point with, you know, even after the trades of some pretty damn good players, I thought they looked pretty competent.

But, you know, once you start resting everybody and you essentially, you have no point guard anymore, I love Jordan Clarkson. He's having a career year, but he's nobody's point guard. It becomes a lot tougher. But, yeah, look, man, I think the Memphis Grizzlies are eminently guardable by anybody. I really do believe that. And, you know, part of what informs it for me is I'm watching the Knicks last night blow a lead to the Hornets. Of course, you know, they have no Jalen Brunson and the Hornets have basically been horrible all year.

But they have real NBA guys and it's the garden. So the road team is always playing pretty freaking hard, right? And I'm just like, yo, the Knicks are not hard to solve and to have court, even if it's sharp. when Jalen Brunson doesn't play. Like, I love Julius Randall. I don't. But you know what I mean? He's been doing a good job this year.

But when it's Julius Randall or in Memphis's case, Jaron Jackson or God forbid Dylan Brooks trying to cook in the half court against a committed set NBA defense, boy, it don't look great. And that's what's kind of informing. Maybe I'm, you know, I'm a prisoner. of the moment and rush into judgment. But boy, I just think they're not good without job.

They and the Pelicans both suffer from a little bit of the same thing, which is I do think those are deep teams, but they're deep in a way where they're built around those stars, right? They're not built to replace them. They're not built to plug in for them. Even to the point that, like, Tyos Jones, like the

gulf between really good backup point guard, Tyos Jones, and table setter point guard, John Morant, is just a chasm. like functionally, a completely different style of play when those two guys are on the floor, to the point that Memphis is going to completely reinvent a lot of what they do. So if you go back and you look up the record of the Heedles era heat, when Bosch would sit, when Braun would sit, when Wade would sit,

the other two guys would just become the offensive hubs of the half-court offense. When LeBron or whoever is there, they're overqualified in their roles, obviously. but when somebody's missing, they can take over the production of an effective half-court offense. That ain't the case for nobody on the Pelicans and the Grizzlies, in my humble opinion. Well, I would quibble slightly. I think, yeah, you guys are right. And, of course, we're talking about Hall of Famers here, right? Like, and that's kind of the point that I'm trying to make.

Sure. Like, Jaws a Hall of Famer, he's got a bunch of nice guys in his friends. in his presence, a bunch of pips, if you will. Well, that's why the pelicans are probably more disappointing, because I think the pelicans were constructed. Yeah, Bia's not supposed to be a PIP. Youngerun's supposed to be that guy, and he was that guy for him,

at least toward the back end of last season into the playoffs. And C.J. McCollum was signed to kind of be the third guy there, and he's been at times pretty awful this season, especially as a creator trying to get other guys involved. Like, if those are two of your primary creative guys, like, it's brutal. I guess they were hoping it was going to be by committee. I'm sure Zion changes the calculus there,

but I don't know. That one's way more disappointing than a Memphis situation who is, to your point, built around Jha, first and foremost. Yeah, I think it's just been so long since we've seen the Pelicans be good at this point. Like, early in the season,

they really did have it rolling. They really did have something. They lost grip on whatever that was. I thought they were a Western Conference final contender early in the season. season. Justin laughed at us and he ridiculed us because he hates the city of New Orleans so much. But ultimately, Zion went down. Those early pods, by the way. I think they hold up pretty well. Area man hates New Orleans so much that he's accidentally right on NBA podcast. It's funny. I've

been accidentally right. A good deal lately. I'm sure it's a coincidence. Zion went down. Zion went down and Justin was right though. He was right about that one. But like the difference is Memphis, we've seen the of concept. And while they have tapered off a little bit with Adams being out when Ja was playing, at least we know that that team is good. Like even if they get him back and we'll see kind of what effect that has on, you know, him being out of the lineup and then back in it, we'll see how the team responds. We'll see who in that locker room cares about John Morant's situation as far as like his responsibility to the team and what's been going on lately, if that matters at all or weighs on them at all. But in terms of the basketball,

like there's a lot to fall back on there. To Rob's point, last year will remember that job missed significant amount of times and they steamrolled people. Yeah. They would just choke people out on defense. They'd muster up enough points, you know, for effective, for efficient offense and transition, bludgeoning people on the offensive boards. They would find ways to manufacture efficiency in his absence.

But it's like it's a defined absence. and you know when he's coming back, right? And this is different. Also, I think the weight of expectation matters. When you're a young upstart and nobody expects anything of you. It's just a different animal, both in your approach and how teams approach you. These guys are no longer some sleeping, you know, little engine that could whatever upstart. Like not only do people see them coming, they hate their guts.

They want to kick their asses every single night in every single city. And so that's why I think the proposition is going to be a little bit different this year. Okay. So Waz's first vote goes to the Memphis Grizzlies, the number three team in the conference. Rob, you're casting for the Pelicans as your first out of the good teams. And you're the jazz. For the jazz. Yeah.

So what do we do for the gimmick? like what is this? I think we have to go to a firemaking challenge now. Eduardo, as producer, do you want to break the tie here? Who do you want out first? Realistically, probably the jazz have to go first. Great. Tough for the jazz.

Tough for your guys' alliances, but maybe you'll get them close to the final. All right. So next vote out. I have the Portland Trailblazers. another team that's been shuffling through some players. Anthony Simons has missed six of the past seven. Doesn't seem like a big deal, but like at this point, every game matters. Can I just tell you Dames' point total from the past six games?

71. Incredible. 25, 41, 33, 41, 31. They are three and three in those games. Yeah. They've been bleeding points since. Especially since Nurkich went out, and it's, again, a lower profile situation

than what's happening in Dallas, for example, but they're kind of in the same position. Like, if they don't score a lot on a nightly basis, they just have no shot. Here are the mirrored opposing team points allowed total from some of that stretch, Justin, and more. They gave up 129 to the Hawks, 121 to the Pelicans,

123 to the Warriors without Steph, 133 to the Kings, 126 to the Wizards, 138 to your Oklahoma City Thunder, 129 to the Bulls. This is what the Blazers are right now. And they are hurt, they are short-handed,

they did not have a deep roster to begin with. It's really hard to take them seriously when they're playing like one of the worst defenses in the league. They're playing like one of the worst defenses in league history. This is Dan Issel shit going on over there. Yeah, it's tough, man. obviously you guys know I root for the Blazers to do well

but it's just they can't stop a nosebleed it's awful and so yeah it's a bunch of mall cops in a bank robbery at this point and so I have to wholly agree

with the pick right there wow do we have consensus I guess like what what it happens to the teams that we didn't take off like are the Pelicans still in the mix here? Are the Grizzlies still in the mix here? Did we send them to Alcatraz? Like, what's happening here?

I don't know. I hadn't really thought about it that far. Let's just kind of gradually move up in groups and tears and we'll discuss everyone along the way. Hold on. In Survivor, like, things do tend to reset after a vote. So I think we have to like come to the table again and basically come to a consensus. Yeah, yeah. So I think like, okay, the Grizzlies, you guys don't have

momentum for the Grizzlies. I didn't have momentum. Sorry, Rob didn't have momentum for the Pelicans in that vote. I'm now saying the Blazers, and it seems like I'm convincing you. So it seems like the Blazers should go. They're not good, but they have Damien Lillard and the Pelicans don't. Like, I'm just going to keep returning to this point with the Pelicans. Like, they just don't have the ammo right now to compete with these teams. Unfortunately, your fellow voting panel isn't convinced by that. That's fine. At least, yeah. But where did you have the Blazers on just like your confidence? in scale, Rob. I mean, that's why I feel okay.

Like, they were next up for me. They were next on the chopping block. So they do need to be eliminated in short order here. Like, they just don't have enough guys. And once Simons gets back from his ankle thing, and once Nurk it gets back, if there's enough time, maybe they'll be able to put something together.

But, like, they are starting Cam Reddish right now. He didn't even play for the Knicks. Nix. And it's not like the Nix have a bunch of big wings that they just love. And, like, they could use. He was a six-foot-seven guy who has allegedly some level of athleticism and knows how to play basketball. And yeah, he couldn't get off the bench.

He's still picking splinters out of his ass. I will say this. Long-term, though, love it for the Blazers. Like, they didn't do the big swing, like, give a bunch of picks in order to make advantage of whatever this season is just because they have Dame Lillard. Like, yeah, does it suck if you are D'Ail-Lshay thing that they always did. Right. They took some flyers. Thibald and Reddish and a couple other guys.

They turn GP3 into a couple second rounders. Totally fine. This wasn't your year. Let's try it again next year. A back court pairing, a three-man back court pairing of Dame Lillard, C.J. McCollum, and Norm Powell would be able to go out and guard people. They didn't think that this year and do that. So, yeah, that's a good thing.

Positive, for sure. The wrench in that plan, though, like Jeremy Grant's going to be a free agent. if he leaves, I don't know how much recourse the Blazers really have to get better. So they may get, they may be in a position where they have to pay him a lot. Maybe they'll just try to get worse

and obviously so. Maybe so. By moving some big pieces. Maybe. Who knows? You're trying to train to see her little on this podcast? Yeah, it's looking more and more like Dirk Dallas in Portland

by the week here. All right. We'll get rid of them. Or maybe KG in Minnesota. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. All right.

Well, I actually have the Pelicans next up. So they're currently ninth in the standings, but I have them. What is this? 11th. We went over everything for the most part. Why do I have them at 10th in the standings? Lakers or a night? I did this last night right before the standings changed.

So they're at 10th. they were first in the West on December 12th. They have gone 13 and 26 since. They started the season 26 and 17. They have gone 5 and 17 since. The one redeeming quality is their schedule, fourth easiest going forward based on Tankathon. So at the very least,

the guys that they have to push over in order to get into the play in, not that hard. And I think that's something, especially when we're splitting hairs, between pretty not good teams. But I like Rob. I don't see it here.

Every game is an absolute train wreck. So they are outside the playing for me. Yeah, I think squarely. All they've done since we put voice to all of our issues with them last week is lose two of their three games, all against Western Conference teams that they kind of need to beat right now. And some of those are understandable, some of them not, but this is your lot at this stage in the season.

you need to win almost every game, or at least as many as you possibly can, to get back into this race, and I just don't see it for them. Remember when the Lakers were going to gift-wrapped them, Victor Wembe Nyama? Hedy times. Yeah.

Now they might not even swap the pick. Now they're going to get the Weminghamma pick. No, they're not, but you know what I mean. So we already have two votes for the Pelicans. So, Waz, your vote technically is a throwaway? Do you want to get in on this vote so we don't vote you out next time? My next team here is the wolves.

Interesting. Okay. The wolves. Do you want to make the case for them? I just, well, I love its trajectory from the year, from struggling to figure out the Rudy thing to getting better at finding his spots as far as where to a like actually on the floor, like geographically,

where he needs to be around Rudy. The Conley thing has been nice, although not, you know, spectacular, obviously. And what's going on with Carl Towns? What's the news? When this dude got injured, nobody said he was going to miss the rest of the season. And he's just been gone, right?

And so, you know, I think at a certain point, It just, I think the teams behind them are just better. All of the teams behind them, aside from the group that we've eliminated, yeah, give me the Lakers. Give me the Thunder. I think they're better than these cats. Obviously, give me the clippers. So, yeah, the wolves, they next up on the chopping block. Yeah, I tried to give the wolves some credit on Bill's Pod yesterday for being a solid defensive team.

And then they just went, got wrecked by the Sixers as they are. ought to do. So I'm just going to respectfully withhold all comment on the Minnesota Timberwolves basketball organization at this time. I can't vouch for them anymore. Like they are so up and down. Honestly, a lot of these teams are, but them in particular where it's like the focus seems to be there and then vanishes. The intensity seems to be there and then vanishes. On balance, they are a good defensive team, but you just never know when the game is where they're going to blow it against the hornets because no one is paying attention. They're really tough to count on,

so it's hard to vouch for them in an exercise like this, because how can you trust a team like that? Also, I think Dennis Lindsay, in the past, has been a competent GM. Some people would even say really good GM. Tim Connolly. Oh, sorry, Tim Connolly.

Excuse me. Tim Connolly has been a competent GM. I got my white guys mixed up. But, but, you know, I think, he got the job and he got a mandate from new ownership to make this big splash. And the roster is a little unbalanced because of that. And I think with an offseason to sort of balance out the roster,

and the way that we saw the Lakers do this trade deadline, where it's like, oh, okay, there's a point guard and a shooting guard and LeBron. And, oh, okay, the team now makes sense. There's a rotation. I think they can do that this offseason. and they would be so much better for it for having an off-season to achieve that. And so that's what I look forward to for them.

And then, you know, they could come in with an actual plan next year. So when you look at just the roster and you strip away the expectations heaped upon them this off-season, which they brought upon themselves, so they don't really deserve any sort of extra credit there. But if you just look at what they have,

this is about what you would expect for them, right? A playing team and Anthony Edwards-driven team that, you know, has some promise to it, maybe long term, but ultimately kind of disappointing. Like, they don't have a ton of extra talent just lying around in this team to the point where, like, to kill Alexander Walker who wasn't playing in Utah all of a sudden is one of their key rotation players. Like Tori and Prince, some of these guys, like Nas Reid is a revelation, but it's just not that talented of a team. It doesn't have like a clear identity as a team. And I think if we were to step away and look at that in the broader,

picture, you'd be like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. But obviously, things are just going to seem more disappointing because they got rid of every single pick for Rudy Gobert, which is the worst trade in probably history. Yeah, it hasn't gone great, you know? It hasn't gone great. And I was bullish on that deal quite stupidly. The Gobert thing, I do have to say, like, it's pretty clear he's not the guy he was. He's not exactly who he was in Utah.

You can see it, like, look at the block numbers alone. over time, right? Like, there's a clear trajectory there that's not positive. But as a media body, like, we don't do a great job of accounting for the fact that Gobert is not a defensive player of the year candidate anymore. But you also, like, wouldn't know he exists from just, like, NBA disco. It's like he vanished off the face of the earth. He's still a very good defensive player.

But it's clear at this point, he's not propping you up as a top three defense right now. Like, he's not that. And that was the bet, right? It was this idea that Utah would surround Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell with all offensive-minded, offensive-focused kind of guys. And it wouldn't matter that. And Joe Ingalls wasn't terrible. But, you know, like Joe Ingalls or Bogie, like these guys were good defenders, but they were not world beers. Mike Connolly, towards the end of his career, just couldn't stay in front of people oftentimes.

Donovan Mitchell just gave up on the idea once he became, you know, a 25 point per game kind of. a guy. And so, and, you know, the list went on and you got Jordan Clarkson. Like, these guys didn't defend. And it was like, well, we got Rudy. We'll stay in the top 10 no matter what we put out there because Rudy's so good. Minnesota assumed that he would be able to perform those duties for them. And that just hasn't been the case. He's been a good defender. He just hasn't been a world beating all-time great, you know, four defensive player of the year award-winning type of defender. And then, you know, that's unfortunate. Do you think those days are done?

I think some of it is a Gobert thing, and I think some of it is with the way the scoring is in the NBA right now, can you be the defensive player of the your caliber guy who single-handedly uplifts your team to elite levels? I don't know that you can do that. Like, if you look at the best defensive players in the league right now, like Janus has Brooke Lopez and Drew Holiday, and that's why that defense is good, right?

Like, the Grizzlies have a wide variety of good defenders led by Jaron Jackson Jr. We talk about Dillon Brooks, but I don't think that defense is what it is without him. No. Is Philly a counterpoint? I think they have some good defenders, you know? Like, I don't think they have great ones, but they're also not one of the elite defenses. Yeah, you're right.

Like, Embedd does a lot there to prop up a lot of guys. And I think that's probably the closest example we have right now. But by the numbers, the wolves with Gobert are about the same as the Sixers with Embed. like defensively like overall their number is about the same place and it's funny because it's one of those things

where you watch night after night where the best you know paint protecting big man is often pulled away from the paint

from his man you know and and when guys are getting blown by like you can try to run and go help but you're going to be late if you're in meaningful

help position or if you're not you're giving up open ass three-pointers, which nobody wants to do either. So, yeah, it's just, it's never been harder to play defense in the NBA, which, you know, is tough. I think it's pretty telling that a lot of the top defenses nowadays want to play or,

in fact, do play with two rim protectors. So when one gets pulled, you have someone coming from the weak side and able to, so you're selling out on stopping the rim. I don't know if one single player can probably do it for you, which typically was a postseason issue, but maybe it's just bled in. to the regular season because teams have built their teams in order to stretch teams out more

over the course of the other games. You know, man, Utah really opened my eyes to this this year where they literally was just like, we're going to play 40 minutes a game with five shooters out there. And people are not going to be able to stop it. And yeah, you might laugh.

It's Laurie Markening and all these other guys. And, you know, our one guy who's not a shooter Walker Kessler, but like realistically, when we sub him out, we got Kelly O'Lennick in there. Like, we are playing five out all day, every single day. And it was hard to stop.

Even with these guys who we were like chopping block trade trade bait type of guys. And they rose to the level of competent offense when we thought they were a tank team. And so, yeah, man, if the Utah Jazz could give the best defenses in the NBA or run for their money by, you know,

Just simply by their philosophy and having the personnel to spread you out all game, you know, it's tough. It just shows you how tough it is to guard these days. So the wolves trade might not only be bad at face value, but it might be behind a trend. That probably isn't going backward. So somehow it got worse today. But we had the Pelicans out first. Are we saying the wolves are the next team on the list? Yeah.

Again, I can't possibly defend them at this point, you know. Okay, so the wolves technically make the play and cut. So they are number 10 here. Who's next? I think this is when it gets particularly interesting. It's the Lakers. Yeah. That's who I got.

I don't like this guy is just willing his team to wins level analysis, but I don't know how to explain what else is happening right now. Anthony, Anthony Davis has been incredible. He's brute forcing his way through some of these matchups. and the Lakers need every bit that he can give them and they're squeaking by, they're getting by, I do not trust it beyond that. Commendable to date, I just don't, I can't trust that.

He might not survive. Like, do you see his face after last night's game? He looked like Steve Nash in the Spurs playoff series. We watched this happen this season already. AD plays MVP level stretch by himself, carrying the team night. after night, and then he got hurt, and he had to sit, sit out for a couple of months. So I don't know why we would think this is going to be sustainable this time around.

So, yeah, that's the Lakers. Lakers are the obvious choice for me because, no, because just, just the person who's propping them up is a fragile person physically. And the rest of these things. It feels harsh. How do you, how can you describe Anthony Davis's injury? history is anything other than fragile. Fragile just seems harsh

for some reason. I take your point. Not mentally, not emotionally, just physically. He doesn't hold up. Handle with care. That's what it would say on the UPS package. I don't know what to tell you guys. It's at least good that he's rising to the occasion because in years past, he would not do this.

So to see him step up, even though it might result in reconstructive face surgery at some point because he's trying to power through these games no matter what. It's working. I think like the objective analysis that you could point to other than like just the fact that AD is willing them

is the fact that the defense has been so good since the all-sart break. Number one since then. Seven and three since the break. That's insane. Excuse me. Seven and three since the deadline. Five and two since the all-star break. Only three and two since LeBron's injury. But DeAngel Russell might be back and like

this goes back to the just incredible players theory where it's just like just give these guys anything. And if Anthony Davis is going to be the best point in the league, it doesn't matter. So I actually have them one spot above here. I unfortunately had the thunder. Don't you dare. Wow.

Wow, you're disrespectful. Even after how they pants the Warriors last night? Well, that's what I think that was a warriors issue than a Thunder plus. Because you don't need to sell me on the Thunder these days. They're incredible. And my heart, they're number one on this list. Just briefly, can we point out that they just stole Dario Sarich from the Sons? And all of a sudden, he's like one of their best bench players.

And Darius Basley's getting like seven minutes for a team that desperately needs, like, anything off the bench. We'll get to that eventually. But good Lord, San Presby, just like panting people, even this late in the season. My issue is just like, the injury is starting to stack up just enough to where like SGA missed. I believe it was like two or three games or something. And he's missing... But did you see him last night?

He's back. He's incredible, but injury maintenance tonight against the Suns, Jalen Williams, missing back-to-back games. I'm wondering if there's enough there to hold them back. I think they're a playing team, but they are playing from behind here, which is going to be... You're questioning their desire to actually pull off this playing stuff. Actually, no, I would go the opposite way. I think that they're showing more pep than anyone would have imagined at this point.

There's really nothing to prove. I'm, the players are playing their asses off. Last night, the young guys flying around these young, long athletic defenders. I'm like, damn, this is a sight to behold here. Turning Golden State Warriors over all over the place. I'm just like, man, this is really cool to watch. But when you start, you know, if you're really in a playoff hunt, SGA shouldn't be resting, in my opinion.

He's 23 years old. That man needs to play. If the playoff hunt is and Chase is serious. You know, it's different when AD does it. Where it's just like, all right, again, injury maintenance absence tonight from a five game absence. I looked it up. It was five games.

That's tough. And I know you want to like take your time as a young team building towards something else. Nah, fuck that. You got to. But like there's not enough just like fire up their ass in the way that it would be for the Lakers, a team that desperately wants to make the. play in above anything at all to the point where AD is willing to lose a limb for it. There's definitely an urgency there for the Lakers.

Like they need to make it, right? Like that is all they have. I don't totally agree that the Thunder like need to, you know, need to run SGA into the ground to make this thing. Hold on, hold on, Rob. I'm not saying they need to. They don't need to. They're a young team. They don't have a chance of doing anything significant in the playoffs for real.

However, if they really truly cared about this playoff chase, SGA would not be sitting. There's some truth to that because when he does play since January 1st, so when he's played, 14 and 9. 14 and 9. He's pulling this out of the air. Pulling this out of the air. How about this? Even better since January 1st, second best team in the Western Conference by net rating. Pretty good.

Second best team in the Western Conference. What a sick NBA This is the silliest NBA season It's been wild It's been a wild time I just think Like they are clicking offensively When their guys play in a way that the Lakers are not

And in a way that feel like I trust I have a lot of faith in their effort level And in their ability to compete And in particular when SGA is out there But you mentioned Jalen Williams Like he and Josh Giddy have come on As strong as any young players in the league Have come on over the course of this season

Like they've really grown They've really evolved I'm anxious to see Josh Gidey in the playoffs It's going to be a thing You know Like he's going to get Iguodalid In some cases I'm anxious to see that

I want to see how that goes And obviously what that means for his development And what type of player He makes himself into Yeah I think he's showing that he will Look at the basket a little bit more Especially on the drive

He is a guy who drives to pass You know And what I like up What the one thing Because is you know I've been a Josh Giddy skeptic both jokingly and seriously. But what I liked last night

was when Steph would switch on to him, he was like, I'm putting my head down and taking his fool to the basket. That is, that's encouraging. That's the stuff that people like Ben Simmons would refuse to do. Yes. Right?

It's like, I get a smaller guy on me. These guys think they can ignore me with some nothing defender. No, I'm going to make them pay. And that's something, that's really encouraging and exciting to see. He's just going to be bigger than a lot of the guys who guard him.

And so as soon as he kind of gets through that full mental shift of like, I need to punish people. And he's starting to get into that mode. He's starting to pick those spots a little bit better. I think he's going to be pretty good. But there's no question. Like, once they get to the playoffs,

he's going to be tested as much as anybody on the roster. The bigger question is, can a guy with hair like that be a bruiser? You know, I really question that incredible head of hair. Like, can he really be a bruiser? He's got to get a receipt in the handline first. Oh, so it's too luxurious is what you're saying. Yeah, it's too luxurious.

You can't bruise with that. it's like Fabio bruising out there. Yeah, this is his team, Pan Team ProVee with him and Jalen Williams out there. I just dated the hell out of myself with that Fabio reference, by the way. I saw him at the gym once. Fabio? Yeah.

Was he in incredible shape? Yes, he was like 60 and he was fucking ripped. And I had a towel over like one of these benches. He's like, is that yours mate? And I was like, yeah. And then I got it the hell out of there because I didn't want him to just, crack my head open. Beautiful man.

Is that a risk? When you're around Fabio, you just might get your skull cracked. Hey, man. I think I like, I think I broke gym code by putting like a towel over something I wasn't using at the time. And he was politefully,

uh, holding the economy. Quick question. What gym were you, were you at an LA fitness or an equinox? This sounds like an equinox. No comment. Wow.

I'll say this. I joined an equinox last year because it was coming out of the pandemic and I didn't want to be near anyone's fucking like COVID sweat. Wow. You didn't want to get cooties. So you joined Equinots. This is a lot of comment for a no comment. I could probably count on the number like on my hands, like the number of times that I actually went. Like I was out of shape.

I just, but I wanted to go somewhere. I was like, all right, I got to go somewhere clean. and then I didn't use it and it was one of the worst waste of money of my entire life. So what you're saying is you burned even more money

by not going than you thought you were going to when you signed up. Exactly. It was a bad investment. But I do have the Fabio story. I also saw one of the twins from selling sunset.

It was good people watching. I'll say that. But yeah, the thunder. I have the thunder out before the Lakers. it sounds like you guys have the Lakers and then the Thunder. Yeah. Okay, so we'll go in your order.

I didn't get the votes for this one. Next on my list is the Memphis Christley's who was head out first. Rob, who do you have? That feels like the spot for them. Like on my personal list, I have like, you know, the wolves and the jazz kind of in this range. But since they're long gone at this point, it feels natural that we get to Memphis. They just have more on-court questions. They have the huge looming.

off-court question in any kind of tie-breaker scenario here. And I think we're kind of getting into tie-breaker territory, right? Like Memphis and even Sacramento and the Clippers and the Mavs, like all these teams, the Warriors, if you want to bundle them up, are all kind of in the same grouping together. And I just don't see any reason to give Memphis the benefit of the doubt on almost any front right now. So if one is going to sift to the bottom, I think it makes sense that it's the Grizzlies. Yeah, I have no idea what the healing process is for John Moran. that Taylor Jenkins is referencing. If we had more information at this point,

as we're recording Wednesday morning, maybe I can, like, wager what's going on there. And what does he do? The bottom thing is, like, what does he do that he's great to come back in a short period of time? No, it's just, because if we really interrogate this question, we start getting into the PR spin

of the business we work in. and how often can we actually trust the information being given to us by organizations when it comes to stuff like this? How, like, and for all I know, like, John Moran might actually be dealing with mental health issues. There might be some breakdown somewhere, all of that stuff. But also, how do we really know or trust that this isn't just PR. spin. It's just like, yo, just fall back for a week and a half. Come back. It's cool. Chill on

Instagram live. Move on with your life. How do we know which one is actually the case? That's the one thing that really jumped out to me when all this was happening and really rubbed me the wrong way. If Jaws actually has a situation, like I wish him the best, take all the time you need, all that other stuff. But it does feel like PR staffs, just companies that are doing damage control are now defaulting to using mental help as a defense when it might not even involve that. I thought Chris Herring wrote about this pretty well as Sports Illustrated, bringing up the fact that even Josh Primo, who went through Waves Hands, ever, all the disgusting shit that he had going on there was like, I'm going to step away to work on my

mental health. And it just seems like it's becoming a default. And that gets really grimy. And I don't know. Well, there's some reporting, too. I think it was from Shams Trani at the Athletic about some players-only meetings, some players-only discussions, even before this incident. in which it was alluded to that there was like a veteran on the team triangulating, it sounds like it might be Stephen Adams voicing like some cashier, yeah.

Asking for some better discipline among the team on the road just in terms of like, can we take this stuff seriously? Like we have a shot as a contending team. Can we be a little bit more serious about some of these habits? Let me just say something right here.

Because this group chat, we got to keep it a thousand. You guys know I'm somebody who can be described as outside, which means like that I have a high tolerance for people who are outside. Okay? I tend to be like, oh, okay. You know, a guy likes to enjoy himself, whatever.

Jaumaran is outside. He's out, dude. He is on it. He's in the wilderness. He's in the out. And I promise you this isn't anecdotal hearsay yada yada I promise you guys That dude is out and so when you read the reports and it's like damn like what are we doing on the road and blah blah blah like the de facto leader of the team that's what he's leading by that's the example he's setting and leading by and I can tell you that with authority bro So like I said that's why I'm really

skeptical of their prospects for the rest of this season. I love a redemption arc. So I love seeing them soar to New Heights next year. It's a young group, super talented. They can do it. But this year, I don't think so. Well, to take your point, I just don't even know what redemption means in this case.

Like, I don't know what... For Jabber rant? In terms of what he would do to come back, in terms of what he would do to make things, quote-unquote, quote, right? Like, look, I can say this. Personally, just, just my advice to John Morant, higher personal security, um, professional, personal security so that you don't have to carry guns.

Don't show up places with your boys to beat people up as if you're some nobody, um, who nobody knows and has absolutely nothing to lose. Uh, just conduct yourself in a more measured, mature fashion and you will be fine. Like, punching a kid in the face at your crib. Like, this is easily, like, this stuff is so avoidable. You know, I don't think this stuff is like, these are hurdles that cannot be overcome. You know, the stuff about gun culture and carrying, like, this guy's from South Carolina. Like, that's their culture.

They have guns. That's what they do. They really believe in their right to carry guns to protect themselves. Like, that's what they do. That, like, I can't come in here as something. some, you know, some Yankee and be like, oh, heavens, no, not the guns. It's like, that's what they do. We know that.

That's a huge part of our country, certain parts of our country's culture. I don't really, I can't really get too worked up about a guy carrying a gun, even if he's an NBA player, when you consider the place that he's from. Like, this guy's from the country. That's gun town over there. And so that kind of stuff is like professionalize your operation. Yeah. Okay.

You can afford to, and you need to afford to, you know. And, you know, all that other stuff where you like beating people up showing up the malls and like, yo, I'm a scrap. And I'm like, you know, this stuff is so avoidable. I would point people, too, to Jalen Rose. I thought he had a great encapsulation of this situation and kind of like transposing his own experience as a player coming up to what Jaws going through right now. Definitely seek out his clip and his comments. they were great. Yep. So we have Grizzlies out here. Which is the next team on your list was? That's easy. The Sacramento Kings. Look, man, I'm happy for Cowbell Country. I'm happy for them.

This is the coolest story. DeAren Fox is somebody who I've always been a believer in. I don't know. There's just something about watching a guy in person make Kawhi Leonard and Paul George look like average defenders. I was at a regular season game where he did that at Staples. And I was like, this kid has a future. He's just got to put it all together.

Like, the shot has finally come around and he has become so, he's become so expert about when he deploys his shots, when he decides to go to the rack, when he decides to pull up for the, for the mid-ranger, when he decides to take his three.

When he decides to give it up, the dribble handoffs. Like, he's just become so smart. about his attack offensively. And, you know, I just love, I love watching him play, the pace with which the Kings play. It's incredible. But your freaking center,

Demonis, three-time All-Star, he may be. I'm getting buckets against that team. Like, there's just no doubt in my mind. I'm getting buckets against that team. And I really believe in my ability to cut off the head of the transition attack, hunker down in half court and guard. these guys in half court.

And so to me, they're the least, they're sealing as a playoff level half court offenses, the lowest of the teams that remain. And so that's why they're off the board here. But not, you know, not about much.

You can know I said it's easy. They just got a low assembly. I think it does depend on the matchups with them. The Kings get thrown out in a lot of these playoff conversations. Like they are the first, They're the first piece of luggage to get thrown overboard. I definitely get why.

I think for a lot of these teams that are on the lower part of the bracket, I think some of them are going to have a harder time keeping up with Sacramento scoring-wise than we might think or that even they might think. I think the Clippers are a great example. Like the Clippers getting a series against the Kings, I feel a little more confident about their half-court offense-wise, about Sacramento's half-court offense. Like, I think it's pretty good.

I think it's pretty formidable. in freaking months. They don't play defense, but the Clippers' defense hadn't been great either. It's been nasty, honestly. That's just one hypothetical matchup, right? You can go through this exercise

with the Warriors or the Mavs or the Wolves or the Lakers or anyone else in that range, but I think Sacramento is going to be tough. I think they are going to score really well. Obviously, we don't have any reason to think that they're going to be a good playoff defense, and that's ultimately going to be their undoing,

but I think that's why this is the right range for them, right? Like all the teams that we would have above them have some kind of capacity to, they either have like stars who could go on incredible runs. They have very solid foundations. They have like a DNA to what they do that is a little bit more reliable. Versus here for as much as we like Dierrin Fox and as much as great a season as Demona Sabonis has had. Like, are you going to put those guys up against Luca and tell me that they're going to outperform in a series? That's my thing.

When I think about the matchup hunting that teams like, Tyloo, that's what he specializes in as far as the Clippers. Luca, just the match of, like, Malik Monk is going to be on the court while Luca's out there in a playoff setting. And I'm supposed to believe this is going to work out great. I can't see it, y'all. I really can't. And the story is great. But the two teams to me that are immediately above them, the Mavs and the Clippers, in my opinion, in a playoff series, they're beating these guys.

And not just with talent, veteran know-how too. You guys are really driving down the price on the beam-adjacent property. I have to say. We're all playing the log game right here, right? This is a real estate podcast, first and foremost. But no, likewise, I have the Mavs and Clips right in front of the Kings here. I guess which order you fall in probably is like an eye of the holder thing. I think it's Clips Mavs.

So Clippers above the Mavs, yeah. So the Mavs, since Kairi's first game, fourth on offense, incredible to watch. Just watching him and Luca play off of each other, dueling banjos, scoring 120 whatever a game at this point. 25th on defense, four and six since he's been there. It's pretty much gone exactly how you expected. I've seen better defense at little sisters at the poor, brother. Little sisters of the poor play better defense than these guys, I promise. I don't know what that means.

That's a monastery in New York. There are a lot of things we say as analysts that, like, don't come true because we didn't see it coming. I mean, for you guys, not me. I see most things coming. Right. But, like, there's something like heartening when we forecast that something is going to happen and it happens exactly like we expected it to. And I think the Kyrie experience in Dallas has been just that.

And so, like you guys, yeah, I would put the clippers above them. The Clippers are now one and five with Russ. I'll say this. People are talking about, oh, you know, the offenses look tough, late in games. They lose in close games, man. Really close. Those are fluky results. We know historically, those are fluky results that can go either way, literally 50-50.

You know, they could have just as easily, for real, conceivably won all of those games. And so I think it's looked better than people have given it credit for. And I think they can be better than the fourth best offense in the league as presently constructed because of the talent. What makes me a little nervous with the Mavs is Tim Hardaway Jr. is back to playing out of his freaking mind and Justin Holliday has played really well. Like a lot of their role guys are clicking right now. What happens when they don't?

Also, Moxy Kleeba is the Bill Russell of your defense. That's a problem. Honestly, it's not even his fault, though. Like the Mavs are, there's such a bad, second rotation team. Like Maxy is going to step up and contest and pick up guys when he should and then behind him is just crickets.

Like there's just nothing. There's no one stepping over to bail him out. And don't bring up defense in the same sentence category universe of Christian Wood. That's just never going. That's never going to be a thing that happens. Well, here's the, I think, the question about where these two line up.

If the Clippers never signed Russ, would you feel better about them? than even the Warriors on this list, who I presume is going to be coming right after the Clippers? I think there's a chance. Here's the thing about the Rust thing. I think there's a chance that Ty Lou is dumb like a fox, and he's playing Rust his heavy minutes

and giving him this responsibility to prove to his guys that it doesn't work. The bait and switch. And later on, yes. And later on, he's going to be like, guys, we tried it. We did it your way. it did not work. It was a disaster. We're doing it my way now.

So I think there's a chance that that can actually be the case. Well, it certainly was pointed that before they signed Russ, there were some questions to Lawrence Frank about like, what does this team want out of its point guard position now? And he basically said,

he listed a bunch of qualities that were everything but Russell Westbrook. And then Paul George went on the signed Russell Westbrook campaign and they signed Russell Westbrook. And so maybe there's some truth to that. Maybe you just need to show this is what this looks

like. And I think in fairness to Russ, there have been some spots where he's looked really good, especially playmaking in space. There's still the problem of contributing or really not contributing. That's the thing. Why is he orchestrating possessions at the end of close games? Don't know. In 20 freaking 23. That's absurd. Don't know. It's weird. For a team that was perfectly fine before they signed him. Like, I had so much optimism after the guy or Gordon in there, they made a few little adjustments that seemed like made sense. Eric Gordon has not looked great guys by the way. So I was reading a story on the athletic

by our guy LaMurray and he was bringing up how Covington finally got into the game played a couple of key minutes for them the other day in a game that they obviously lost but still. And he had this one to bit where he says that Covington has not shared the floor with Leonard and

George at the same time since the preseason. I was like, oh, you mean up until this game, right? Which is still wild because it's been two-thirds of a season at this point? No, no, no. Still has not, even though he played in key possessions of this late March game. Guys, the idea that you would have a closing lineup that included Kauai Leonard and Paul

George, again, two capable guys on the ball guys, and you would rather play Russell Westbrook or nothing on defense and a negative nothing when he doesn't have the ball in his hands in offense, like that you would play that over Robert Covington. It just make it make sense. I thought Tyloo was Vince Lombardi. What the hell is going on here?

Play Terrence Manmore. Play Terrence Manmore, please. That too. I'm begging. So he was. He's a very good basketball player. He fits very well. Please play Terrence Manmore. So Tyloo is playing Phil Jackson Mind Games with Russell Westbrook, but he's not putting in

a quality frontball player. That's the fatal flaw. The fatal flaw in my hypothesis. We probably just don't see it. It's too brilliant that we just actually can't comprehend what's going on there, right? But here's the thing. We've made the case for why the clippers shouldn't be higher. Why should they be here?

Like, do they deserve even being this high? And I think Kauai Leonard has looked so incredible lately. He has. I say this is someone who's, I have taken a run at that football 10 times on this podcast this season. I am easy to sell on the Clippers, but we haven't really said any reason why they are a contender. Listen, I remember, I remember being in Las Vegas the day that they executed the Kauai signing and Paul George trade. I remember all of my media brethren and cistern. Oh, my God, they stuck it to the Lakers. Oh, and they're going to win championships. It's got all the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

freaking wing defense and all the length and the depth and this and they're going to be so unstoppable. They're not that, right? They're not going to win a championship. They're not. This is not a championship contending team. They're not. But do I like them better than the Mavs and the Kings?

Hell yeah. I think they're more reliable. I think in a playoff setting, you know, high pressure, high leverage possessions, I have a trust in them to execute on both offense and defense, man. I have a trust in their ability to sack up defensively. In a way, I just don't see it for the other two teams in this tier that we're talking about. So when you say they're not contending for a championship, no, no. You think zero percent chance.

Zero, zero, zero. So long as the Denver Nuggets exist, Rob. Oh, Jesus. They have no way of winning a championship this year. zero. So for you on this list, where does the championship percentage start? Like I'm guessing everyone below the Clippers don't. Warriors are at like five.

Okay. They've got a shot. They have a shot. Last night was distressing as hell. I did the dis-warriors team that I watched put the clamps on people last year in the playoffs, just in moments where they just straightjacket fooled. that they couldn't stop the OKC Thunder from dropping 135 on their heads?

The mighty OKC Thunder. 21 turnovers. That'll do it. Insane, okay? And so I still, but again, it's the Warriors. I got to give them the 5%. They're like the modern spurs for me. Any playoff that they're in,

I'm going to give them a chance to, you know, ultimately come out on top. but yeah they have 5% Phoenix I give them a 20 I give them with 20 and I give the nugs of 30 that's that's that's me

all right that's me so I have a stat for you guys uh dream on green is shooting 33% from 3 right now one of the lowest marks on the team uh our friend Jordan pool

marksman steff curry understudy future of the Golden State Warriors 32.5%. Now the volume is starkly different in both cases, but... And the shot quality is starkly different. Yeah, the attempts

are a little different. I'm just not sure that Jordan Poole is any good. And I think we've been towing this take for a little while here. I just think... Michael Tina. You heard you. I just... When is this guy going to do more than score

when he starts? I think is my question. Not to fully out our guy, Michael Pina, but at some point we're going to have to air the top 100 discussion tapes of his takes on Jordan Poole, because he has some feelings. Maybe we'll get him on the podcast

and then to talk about it. But he's not alone. Like, you know, I remember Haralabab was just like, yo, he's a one-way guy who's one way isn't even that good. You know, and so what exactly is he? I just think when he's at his best around

what this group does well, it's very valuable. It's another guy who can break down a defense with the dribble. We know they kill the defense with the pass and the threat of the shot

and they break down defenses that way. But, you know, when people are switching everything and you got to start attacking mismatches and hunting mismatches to have a guy that can credibly breakdudes down

off the dribble, that matters on this team where Steph is the only other person who has, even remotely a shot and Wiggins too at times. So I think what he does is important, but yeah, I still like Poole. I'm not out completely out on him yet. I think there are times where he can get to the level of average

and not completely dumpster fire as a perimeter defender. And when he's doing that, that's very helpful for the team. I know that's hard-hating analysis. It's a hard truth that they have to swallow at this point in the season, right? Like, what is Jordan Poole to another success? successful warriors run. And it's obviously closer to what he was for the team last year. But even then, I think one of the most important developments for them is Dante

Divencenzzo coming on pretty strong. Like he looks like a natural warrior now. And just the idea that on Poole's more... He's moving beautifully off the ball. Very different function from Jordan Poole in that way, right? Like he is more off the ball. Like he'll bring it up some, he'll handle some. But he's more of a supplementary part where his pool is really driving things,

a lot of possessions that he's in. But for the nights where Poole doesn't have it, whether it's his decision making that's off, whether the shooting is just all over the place. Or the defense... Or the rest of call it carry. You know, God forbid. They actually call it carry once in a while.

It's good to have that change of pace. Like, they're going to need that because those nights are coming. You know, it's tough for Devinchenzo. Is that he's kind of a stark reminder of how bad Bob Myers has stockpiled this team with draft picks. Like, as good as he is, like, just the fact that he is starting over a pool.

Like, is just a shining example of like the main issue with this team is that they relied on all these draft picks and none of them have been good. I mean, they paid Jordan Poole $120 million. You can't say Jordan Poole is a bad draft pick. Okay, he's not a bad draft pick, but now he's a bad contract.

Fair, okay. We'll see on that. I mean, the DeVin-Cinzo's starting is just, I think they're trying to get Poole into his eventual role, right? Like, Steph is finally back. Let's all settle down. Jordan Poole, please return to your seat

on the bench, please go back to kind of what we need you to be. It has much more to do with that than, you know, whether Devinchenzo's, like, overwhelmingly better. He's just, like, a stabler hand and an easier fit that's going to plug into that lineup. The role, he's going, he's better in that role. Yes.

So, playoff game. Although I think he might end up, yeah, closing games overpool. You have 20 minutes, yeah. Yeah, you have 20 minutes to fill in a playoff game. Who are you playing? Devencenzel or Poole right now. I don't know. I don't want to portray DeVincenzo as if he is, like, the picture of good, of like, good discretionary defense.

Like, he takes wild gambols sometimes, you know? But he's better, I think is the point. He's a good player, but he's prone to some pretty erratic swings himself. I'm just saying it's nice to have the diversity of options. Yeah. I think the other issue with the Warriors is that if they play a road game in the playoffs, which they're going to turn to a cactus? Yeah, which they're going to have to do.

And right now they're sixth in the West. So they're not going to have to. have more home games than road games at any point probably in the playoffs. So that seems tough. They've currently won seven. They've lost 25. This is like a historic anomaly or difference between the home road splits. I can't figure it out.

This championship hangover is it's not quite the Shaq Miami hangover where they would just got awful and everybody hated each other. Pat Rowley was like, fuck this. I'm retiring. But damn, it's bad. It's really bad. It's tough. Like,

Draymond's pretty banged up now, and he's played a huge minutes all season. Steph has come back and looked mostly like Steph, and they've lost both of those games. Yeah. Dylan Brooks yelling mean things at you. It's not a good scene right now. It's not a good scene.

I mean, I am on the same page as Wazza. Like, you cannot fully count this team out. Like, I do still think with Steph on the floor, that's still a team you don't want to play. But there's such,

a demarcation point between the top two teams and the Warriors. It is a huge difference. Yeah, I actually have the top two teams, and then I have three ellipses in between them. Classic barrier. There's like a Victor Webbenyama, like wingspan length between the Suns who I have at two and the Warriors at three.

It's just now I understand the Sun's trade for Kevin Durant even more because the opportunity is in front of them. That being said, Are you going to pick them in the four or five matchup when Golden State eventually gets to that five seed? Yes. I have no hesitation. Yes. All right.

Hey, mark this down, steady Eddie. Keep this clip in the chamber. I mean, the sons don't have a bench. They don't even have a fifth player on this team. Like Josh Akogi, awful. I think he was over eight. He had an awful game. He had an awful game amid a very good season.

He was bad against the Ornitz, too. Oh, no, man. Josh Okie, like the sort of potential or people like, no, we're going to get Josh Kogi and he's going to be this physical defender. He's finally going to do things on offense. And this is like the fifth team to take on this charge. And like, you know, now it's surrounded by Devin Booker and Kevin Durant and Chris Paul, like, you really think this guy's going to make big shots in a playoff game?

There's absolutely no way. No, I legitimately don't. I think there's a big whiff of Caleb Martin happening here where it's like, oh, makes a lot of regular season threes and in games that really matter, tough situations. I think he's going to have a hard time. Those threes where you're at home and you miss the last two threes and you know if you miss this third one is going to suck the energy out of the building, he ain't the type of dude that could make that, man. Those are tough. But defensively, he is good.

Off the dribble, he's shown a lot more this season than he had previous. There is a savvy and a creative instinct there that I think is pretty good. Teams are just going to leave him, and it's going to be a problem. In the same way that they're going to leave Ish Wainwright, in the same way that they're even going to leave someone like Terrence Ross and live and die with some of those three sometimes, it's a real thing. But the other guys are so good. I still don't know how you stop their offense.

you can guard them five on four. And I think Devin Booker and Gavin Durand are still going to anchor a pretty elite attack most nights, to be honest with you. Yeah. Any like suggestion when Starr is aligned now that there isn't enough shots to go around, there's only one ball. All the things we used to say back in the big three, it has never come to bear. Like it has never been an issue where like credible like credible like high level office. I think Chris Bosch would disagree with you though. Like he definitely didn't get to really touch the ball.

Kevin Love. Like, ask the third guy is usually the plan. Sure. But it works as long as everyone buys into it, I guess, is the difference. And the difference here is the third guy is Chris Paul, who's at a stage in his career where he doesn't want to shoot 15 times again. He should be the third guy. Because Lord knows if he's anything else, he's freaking blowing up your series. Yeah, Booker has been incredible, 37, 35, 36 in the three games.

He's played next to KD. So that's a good sign. On the one hand, I don't know who is going to fill that fifth spot, but they have probably enough guys at this point where they just play the hot guy. And then Wainwright will make a couple threes and that's enough. I think the fact that the shots, the open threes are going to be available for someone is pretty heartening, I guess, for a chance. But it sounds like you guys aren't sold with the suns being above the nuggets, though.

You guys are still Nuggets defenders. I know Waz's. Still Nuggets, riding out. I am too. It is tough though because Phoenix is a uniquely challenging matchup for Denver. I think Denver will probably have enough going on if they play and enough cohesion to overwhelm that. But just the thought of Phoenix putting Yokic in as many pick and rolls as good offenses tend to do. And honestly, it's not just Yokic. Like, Jamal Murray has not been any great shakes defensively in his career and especially the season to the point that in some games, they just like take him off the ball.

and we've seen that since they've had Reggie Jackson too. We're just going to put Reggie Jackson on the ball and have him compete through pick and rolls because we don't want to strain Jamal Murray through a huge offensive workload and that when he's not doing well with it. I think it's going to be a challenge. That's going to be an incredible series

and a really interesting chess match in terms of the dynamics of it. I just have a little more faith in Denver overall. Like a little more faith in their ability to stabilize, a little more faith in their fifth and sixth guys than Phoenix. but we'll see. Maybe that'll change

even between now and the end of the regular season. Yeah, and man, it's kind of crazy, but there's a chance that Phoenix ends up. They're probably going to overtake the Grizzlies

as the third scene. And so Denver would probably get to avoid them until the conference finals, which would mean more and more wear and tear on these injury-prone-ass players in Phoenix.

And so, you know, you know how that goes. I mean, It's not like Denver is like a paragon of health and fitness. Nicola Yolkits, baby. He's an iron man. Yeah, I know. Unfortunately, Michael Porter Jr. only has like two back discs at this point.

So we'll see how that holds up over a series. I mean, my head says Denver. My heart says the Suns. I do think in a series the Suns are going to be a big problem for the Nuggets. I can't wait for the Suns playoffs. Yeah. Well, even before we get there, just looking at like what Phoenix's trajectory could be, first round, Phoenix could play Dallas, they could play Golden State, they could play the Clippers.

Like, we're going to see KD go head to head with those kinds of teams and those kinds of players from round one. And we'll see what that means for Denver. Like, Denver could get tough matchups too, depending on how the play-in shakes out. But, man. Suns Clippers would wet my beak. Oh, my Lord, that would be so fun. That'd be a great way to start off, like, playoff kickoff weekend.

Any iteration of Mavs Clippers Warriors? your sons in the first round is going to be money. So what we're saying here. Now that Devin Booker's talking slick and the Kyrie element and all, it's NBA basketball, baby. Devin Booker talks so much. And like, I guess now he has a reason to, but like, man, after last year's postseason, after not winning in the finals, like, it was a tough, it was a tough road for him, but I'm glad

he's back to being. Wouldn't you talk that much of you? beat the Kardashian curse, man. Come on now. Also, just a quick, just a quick suggestion. Maybe perhaps for next week. Maybe we save it for the offseason. Let's do Survivor Pool for white American NBA Hoopers because watching Austin Reeves last

night and my man, Gordon Hayward, man, he never plays. But when he does. He's good when he plays. He's so freaking good, bro. He's so good. You guys are coming around to the survivor theme. I could tell. Are we?

It took a while to figure out what we're actually doing on this podcast, but once we did, it was okay. No one knows what's happening here. You don't even know what's happening here, Justin. I think what we came to was the Denver Nuggets are our sole survivor from the Western Congress.

For me. For me. And I know, and listen, I got the champagne, the big old check. It's theirs. I read a lot of NBA content.

I listen to a decent amount of podcast. there's a healthy amount of Nugget skepticism out there. Not just Yokic, it's just a healthy amount of skepticism about what the team can do in the postseason. A lot of people think they're going to fall on their faces. I'm holding steadfast here, though, Justin. I'll see. Justin's baffling. Justin's putting his faith in the Phoenix Suns.

I would pick the Suns in the Zones. He's putting his faith in a KD Super Team again. in a healthy straight up series I would pick the Sons yeah that really is what's happening here it was I don't think that's crazy to say the Nets optimism has just transferred to the Suns

the Nets thing again that's it oh they can't be beat it's KD and guys and oh it's good no depth sorry guys they're gonna be one on one they're gonna be

I like winners okay okay I like guys who have proven it on a big no I'm kidding all right let's just let's just wrap it here to get the fuck out of here this is a long ass podcast yeah thank you to Ann Warno Campo

on production. Thank you to Benjamin Cruz for sitting in here. We'll be back next week. See you.