The Ringer NBA Show - What Are 2021 Expectations for Giannis, Luka, and ... Lu Dort? | The Answer

Episode Date: December 18, 2020

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan ponders expectations from different perspectives as the season gets close to tip-off (01:00). New Ringer staffer Mirin Fader joins to discuss Giannis’s decision to stay in Milwaukee as Chris ranks “what if” scenarios for the reigning MVP (05:00). Then, a conversation with Jason Gallagher and Tyler Parker on rooting for a rising star vs. a rebuilding project (22:00), before a “Philly Special” on expectations for the Sixers (36:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Chris Ryan, and welcome to another episode of The Answer, the Ringer NBA shows We Can Review, where I look to answer the big questions facing the league. And this week, I talked to Mir and Fader, Jason Gallagher, and Tyler Parker, about what our 2021 expectations are for Janus, Luca, and Lou Dort? It's all coming up on a Supermax extension episode of The Answer. Oh, new episode, new theme music, which sound more official every week. and it's official that Janice is staying with the Bucks. This week on The Answer, I wanted to talk about expectations for you guys.

It's the thing that unites every team. It unites every player, every coach, every GM, every Twitter GM, every tape junkie, every rumor monger, every fan. This is the moment right now before the season starts when expectations are at their fullest. But how do those expectations get shaped? And how do those expectations impact how we process? a season. Now take Janus a dead of Como, right? The two big

storylines coming out of this week were the softness of James Harden's core and the size of Janus's supermax. The audition is over and the bucks got the part. Janus is signed to stay in Milwaukee for the next few years. For Janus, this is where the hard part starts.

Janus's entire career has been about exceeding expectations. He was a mid-first round flyer that turned into a two-way monster, a two-time MVP. and the best player on the best team in his conference two years in a row. And it's all happening before he turns 27. So his prime is not even really kicked in yet.

Try to process that. He has always been ahead of schedule. But now it's on Janus. And I don't think we've had a situation like this in a while. Not really since, like, LeBron's first stint in Cleveland, where a player of this caliber with all the gifts in the world and with all the eyes of the NBA on him, this dude who was anointed as the league's next master blaster

is going to more or less try and do its solo. AD left New Orleans, Paul George left Indy, Kauai left both San Antonio and Toronto and built a second star into his free agency price tag with the Clippers. This is what the Milwaukee Bucks are for the foreseeable future.

This is the Yannis show. Drew Holiday is really good, trust me. Is he somewhat overrated based on like the affection sort of NBA writers and NBA Twitter seems to have for him, maybe. But he's not LeBron. He's not PG. Yanis signed the Supermax this week,

and now he is taking on the world on his own. That's what I'm trying to say. And now that he has signed that Supermax, the expectation shift from the bucks and everybody wondering whether they can entice him to stay to Janus, and can he push them over the hump. And much like LeBron's first stint in Cleveland, I think we might start hearing the same kind of debate

that we had around LeBron, around Janus. When is this guy going to be? to get to the finals. When is this guy going to translate the regular season success to the postseason success? Does he have the kind of game that can do that? I would argue that this buck's team, Drew, you know, they'd get rid of George Hill and they get rid of Eric Bledsoe and they miss out on McDonovic. I would argue that this team is better but thinner than last year's squad. Drew's an upgrade, no doubt. But the problem with trading George Hill and Eric Bledsoe is that you can no longer trade George Hill and Eric Bledsoe. The problem with giving up those picks is that you can

no longer give them to somebody else. So if Milwaukee comes up short this season, yes, it is Bud's turn in the hot seat. Then maybe you look and say, what can we get for Chris Middleton to change things up, give Yannis a different supporting cast. But then pretty soon, it's Yadis. If not this season, soon.

The pressure of expectations have now shifted. Up until this point, it was on everyone but Yonnas, on the ownership to spend, on the front office to find personnel, on the supporting cast to contribute. but now it's on the guy with the richest deal in NBA history. The expectation is it's your turn. It's funny how that happens. On today's show, I wanted to talk to a couple of folks

about how these expectations get made, how they change the way we interpret results, and how they impact our enjoyment of a player or a team. So let's get into it. All right, now I am joined by the newest edition to the Ringer staff, Mirren Fader. Mirren, what's up? How are you?

I'm happy to be here. I'm so glad to have you. This is your first Ringer podcast. cast. As I said, all downhill from here. But yes, I'm excited for the debut. So, Mirren, I wanted to have you on for a number of reasons, not the least of which is you are the only person with good timing in 2020. It would seem because it was announced that your book on Janus, Janus, The Improbable Rise of an NBA MVP is going to be coming out at the end of next summer. And this coincided with this announcement yesterday that Janus has re-signed with the Milwaukee books. So I know

Everybody has been like, did you know, did you time it this way? But that was a pretty sweet timing. It was sweet timing. And, you know, I may have played into it a little bit. I threw a couple of eyeball emojis, but no, I did not know. I'm certainly thankful for it. I think the book itself, yes, we had timed it to come out when it came, you know, it's coming out next year because of all the free agency stuff and the decision.

But certainly didn't know. but if you know Janice and you know his story about loyalty, it's not as surprising, I think. Yeah, that goes right into my first question. It's like on a scale of one to five, one from one being totally nonplussed and five being shocked, how surprised were you that he decided to re-up with the bucks?

Okay, I'm going to go with a three. I kind of thought it could go either way. I was a little bit surprised just because of everything that went down. I know there's tons of reporting out there, really great stuff about it. But I think now that I know, it's almost like,

okay, that makes sense. He is still loyal to the same people that, you know, he remembers the exact person that first put an ice bag on his knee. He remembers the first intern that, you know, fetched him food from this place.

Like, he is very much like, remember your roots. Don't forget where you came from. And I feel like this decision reinforces that. Yeah, and I think it's also important to remember that Giannis is still in the infancy of his NBA career in a lot of ways.

He's got a long road. He's obviously taking great care of his body based on how swole he seems to be getting every year. And there's a lot of basketball to be played. I guess I'm curious about the change in how he is situated himself in the Bucks as a franchise. Because along with the Janus announcement,

there was then some reporting from Kevin Arnivitz and Brian Winhorst on ESPN talking about him taking maybe a little bit more of an active hand in who the bucks are recruiting, who the bucks are surrounding him with. Do you see that as a development for him? It's like, it sounds like in the past, he's been a little bit more like front office does front office things. I'm here to play. I support my teammates, whoever they are. Now we're hearing stuff about Yana's showing front office guys, hey, look, this guy texted me and said he might be interested in playing. Yeah, I definitely think there's

been a transition. And keep in mind, there's been three coaching staffs in his career. So he's sort of, the first half of his career was almost like learning the business of basketball. Oh, okay, so the coach I have rookie gear is fired. Now I have this new coach. Okay, Jason Kidd comes. Then he's gone. So I think he sort of watched it from afar and realized how it works. And then he earns this title of leader and global icon. And now he feels, obviously, he is more than a seat at the table. He is foundational. And so his journey is coming from being somebody that more leads by action and watching and watching and working to more vocal. That's been a process for him this entire time. He used to like really not like speaking up in film sessions and, you know, wanting to just prove himself on the court. Like, why do I have to talk about it? And I think the much more vocal, Janus you see in terms of like, hi, I'd like this player. This is what I'm thinking. I feel like that is so much part of his journey in transforming not just the action, but being a vocal leader. Yeah. And he's also, I mean, is from the responsibility that he's taken on

and maybe voicing, using his voice a little bit more, I think he's about to take on more responsibility on the court because, you know, this Bucks team is the Bucks team that they've got. You know, like there are not that many new ways to skin a cat in terms of adding players, especially during the season this year, I don't think. And now we're hearing talk about Drew getting maxed out. So it's like, it seems as if they've made the decision that this trio of Middleton, Yannis, and Drew are going to be

the guys they ride into another postseason. What do you think of the buck's on-court product? Do you think that they are getting the most from the guys they have around him? And do you think that he'll be happy with this new roster? I mean, I definitely think the holiday edition is huge. I think that, you know, first of all, this is a move that people might not realize, but the addition of Josh Oppenheimer, the assistant coach that they just re-signed.

It's actually a very, very big deal to Janice. That was his guy freshman. Not freshman year. He could have been a freshman. He was a baby of being pulled back then. But that first year in 2013, like Josh Oppenheimer and him would shoot hours and hours every single day after practice. And so I think having him here brings that sense of normality.

And I think it's one step further of his comfortability with this group. I think bringing him back was major. and I think, you know, people might not know that or see that, but it will definitely make a difference. As far as, like, the players that they have, I think that they have, they certainly have enough to see it through. I don't know if it's going to work, but I know that Janice believes in this group.

And I think that you see his commitment to it. He's certainly, like you said, been vocal about more his needs. But I think with this coach coming back and, you know, these pieces in place, I think that it's certainly going to be exciting. Are you glad or somewhat wistful about the fact that the next year of watching Janus is going to be purely watching Janice and not watching where Janus might go and all the decision sweepstakes that would have happened around that? Absolutely.

I feel like when we have a player that so defies convention in terms of what we value in basketball, right? Like he is thriving as somebody that does not rely on a jump shot. we can't appreciate what we're seeing the athleticism, the tremendous speed downhill, the ball handling, the size. I feel like we take for granted a lot of his greatness because we're so used to it now. But it really, he's still so young and there's still so much potential that I feel like without having to focus on rumors, you can actually just appreciate basketball and maybe appreciate how much he is going to grow. We'll see what happens with the jumper.

but I would like to focus on his form and that rather than like, where is he going? And I know personally, not from the Midwest, but I know that Bucks fans are finally glad that they can have a sense of peace. Like, look, can we just enjoy our generational player without all of you people trying to steal him from us? It was going to get so loud.

I mean, if this didn't happen, if he was like, I just want to see what we want to do this year, it was going to get chaotic, man. And even just hearing like, just even like scanning hoops type, you could just see that people who were saying like, if he hadn't resigned, they would just have to consider what they could get for him. And it's just like, I can't believe we were almost at that point. I want to ask you really quickly about how you think Janus will react now that I think the spotlight is weirdly even more trained on him. Because we'll go into another season, another presumably a postseason with him. and I kind of wonder if let's say the Bucks have another second round exit.

If we go and we return to kind of some of the stuff that dog LeBron for a little while about whether or not he could get it done in this place and whether or not he was the total package and was alpha or whatever stupid sports writer tropes we want to throw around. But like that debate has not really come up in the last couple of seasons for places because generally like guys team up and it's just kind of a foregone conclusion. But Janus, he's not going to. it alone, but he's definitely putting himself under a lot of scrutiny. How do you think he'll react to that?

I think he doesn't see it in terms of like external pressure or any spotlight that's different. Janus is so refreshing because even at this stage in his life with all the millions that he makes, it's very simple for him. Here's the ball. Here's the basket. I'm going 100 miles an hour. Like he really doesn't look at it like pressure or storylines for him. It's it's the same. Jim that he spent hours as an 18 year old fresh over here. I don't think he sees it as that. I know that there is pressure to win like you're saying, but I don't think he looks at it differently, especially with the things that have happened in his personal life with his dad's death and now he has a son. You know, when things like that happen to, your perspective is so much bigger than basketball.

And certainly with everything that he's dealt with growing up, I think that, you know, he's still so focused on family and things that the pressure of basketball does not really get to him in the way that maybe it does with other people. I also think that he really believes he can win there. I went to Milwaukee right before the world shut down, thank God. And I asked him, did you ever think that the Bucks would ever win this many games? I mean, you know, your first year, it was 15 wins. There was a polar vortex. And he's like, man, if you would have told me we would get to this point, I wouldn't have believed you. And so I think just seeing that they could get to this point has given him strength and belief in the commitment like, okay,

it is possible here. And now they just have to do it. Yeah. I mean, like, in some ways, the back-to-back MVP's like have accelerated the expectations around him, I think, in a way that if he had just won one, or if you'd come close or if there had been an argument, but, you know, he had been runner up to LeBron or run up to Hardin or whatever, it would have been different. Like, we really ask so much from guys in their first few years in the league now, you know, whether it's Luca, whether it's Janus, whether it's Zion already, you know, it's, it's, the expectations around like what they are able to produce on an early, in an early phase of their careers is immense.

I really think that the NBA is so weird to me because they want players to come in at their youngest and most developed. How is that a thing? Like, you can't, you can't be both. I mean, maybe you can if you're a unicorn, but there's very, very few. And I think part of the reason why I love Janice's story and why I'm writing this book is because he's an example of what happens when you give young prospects time to develop. You know, revisionist history is something, but nobody thought he was going to be, you know, anything close to this. I look at that draft a lot.

Yeah. Okay. So you're not going to be able to be a fly on the wall as this decision takes place because there won't be a decision. He's made his decision. But that doesn't mean we can't still have a little bit of fun about hypothetical. hypothetically where we would have enjoyed to have seen him land. And I don't know if you've played this game at all

where you've thought about where you would have maybe like to see him turn up outside of Milwaukee. I don't want to burn any bridges in Milwaukee by being like, it would have been cool if he had gone to Indiana. But I thought I'll take the heat off of you. I'll do my power ranking of my top five Yadis destinations that won't happen now because he's resigned with the bucks. But it would have been cool if.

It would have been cool number five if you'd gone to Toronto. I love the fan base. I just think that watching the way they've coalesced around that franchise and the whole We the North thing, it's a really international team and it's a really cosmopolitan city. And I think he just would have been amazing up there. There's something about Janus leading not only a franchise, but like an entire country's like kind of basketball identity up there that would have been pretty sick if you ask me. And if they could have done it without losing anybody like Siakum or OG in the process,

that would have been pretty fun. So number five is Toronto. Any thoughts on Toronto? Yes, I love the globalism connection as well. And if I'm not mistaken, they were one of the teams that came to Greece to scout him originally back in 2012. And I think that they felt that way of like, oh, this connection. So that would have been, that would have been one of the teams that went to Greece to scout him or not. Like if you got to see him and you were so like, I'll take Michael Carter Williams. You might regret that a little bit.

number four this is very simple Miami and there's one reason why I wanted to see what would happen if Janus went to a team and they were like you have too much body fat you need to get in better shape there is another level of diesel for Janus but Janus in that kind of blood sport Miami

basketball factory would have been a sight to behold but also so flashy so not Janus I mean this guy genuinely loves wearing his sweatsuit to a game. I feel like he doesn't have the Miami, you know, vibes to go with. Not on a South Beach time for him? No, okay. You know, no, I don't think so.

Okay. Well, here is my, I just watched Tenet. So to me, time is just like a construct. So my idea for number three here was the 2014 Spurs. I wish that Janus, you know, he's playing for Bud, who was an assistant coach with the Spurs up until 2013. so he didn't get to coach that team that brought down Miami. But I would love to have seen Janus with like prime late pop.

You know, Janus playing with a guy who could come up with a hundred different ways to use him. And he could be some kind of hybrid between new Tim Duncan, new Kauai Leonard and new Manu somehow. I just think it would have been awesome to see. Well, Pop actually coached Janus in the 2015 Africa game. I don't know if you remember that. It was the first time a group of like Team World, Team. USA went to Africa. Pop was his coach and Janus is like sprinting through practice and pop and pop and everyone is like, this is a charity game in Africa, calm down. And he was like, no, I want to be

great. So anyways, that brief experience made me like you want to find out what they'd be like together. Yeah, right. Number two, I've been seduced by Bill Simmons and his repeated messaging about Luca and Janice teaming up. It became so intoxicating that I fell for it. So there was a part of me that will always dream of what that would have been like. I think we probably could have called the league for a few years if that had happened. But number two would be Dallas. I mean, that would be amazing.

I also just love that like, although obviously both international journey is completely different. And I think like Luca probably respects the hell out of Janus that he did not, he was not primed for this. He was not in some top club like this. He was at some random division. And I just could see them like geeking out about EuroLeague or something. And I would love that. I know. We would have to give them a Europod, a Euroleague pod.

My number one, and this is going to be a little bit of a surprise. And I am a Sixers fan and I have no reason to see Jim Dolan happy. But I think it would be dope if one of these years before I die, the Knicks were good. And I do remember, like, I have a few sports memories that I hold really near and dear. One of them is, is insanity. One of them is the feeling of what happens in New York City when the Knicks are the center of the basketball world. And when it's like every night at the garden, like anything could happen.

And I know that it wouldn't happen. And in a lot of ways it shouldn't happen. And in a lot of ways, you know, the Knicks fans, like, as Bill talks about on his pod with Cuban, like, he's glad that it's not going to, that there's not going to be a year of could the Knicks get Yonness? talk because it's so delusional. But there is a part of me that wants to see meaningful, awesome basketball being played by meaningful awesome basketball players in New York, not in Brooklyn, in Manhattan. Like, I don't know, give me, give me like in the first, in the Biden administration, some, some time frame. I would love

to see it happen. I would love to see it too. It would also be the ultimate irony because I I don't know if it's because New York was the only team that did not send a scout to Greece, but Janus always plays amazing at the Knicks. And it's funny to watch old clips of him basically saying he wants to bust Carmelo Anthony's ass in 2013 when nobody heard of Yonis. And so it would be the ultimate irony if he could have been on the Knicks. Do you know what it's weird? I feel like there's lots of guys like that where it's always like, dude, dude, we got to get Kemba back in the garden. You know, he always plays great in the garden.

This guy always plays. Maybe the problem is the Knicks are bad, and that's why guys always play well in the garden? It could be. It could be. It's just Occam's razor. Mirren, thank you so much for joining me. Good luck with the book.

I can't wait to read it. I hope you'll give me a galley copy at some point when you're wrapped up with it, and we'll have to have you back on the answer sometime soon. Anytime. That was a blast. Thank you. All right. Now it's a thrill for me to be joined by two of my good ringer buddies,

Jason Gallagher, one of the guys behind NBA desktop, one of the minds behind. If you have a favorite video at The Ringer, it's probably because of Jason. And then Tyler Parker, who is often the star of Jason's video work. And you may know him from Take Hunter, Coach Tio, a number of other videos. Tyler, Jason, thank you for joining me on the answer. Thanks for having me. Yeah, man, this is great. All right, I wanted to talk to you guys because you're coming at the NBA,

you're coming at fandom from two opposite sides of the spectrum. Jason is a guy you're cheering for the greatest basketball player of all time. A guy who in just two seasons has literally mounted Larry Bird and ridden him like a basketball stallion into the hearts and minds of NBA fans everywhere. And the question isn't, will Luca win the MVP or will Luca win multiple titles? It's, can a Slovenian become president of the United States while being the five-time defending MVP? That's the real question.

And Tyler, on the other hand, I have forgotten who coaches the Oklahoma City Thunder. Dude, honestly, sometimes when I see his name, I'm like, all right, you know this. Who is Coach of the Thunder again? Mark Dagnold. He was a G-League coach last year. And, you know, from what I understand, a terrific fellow. So, Jason, you're coming into this season. I mean, it can only go down, really.

I mean, the Mavericks aren't necessarily considered title contenders, but I think that there's this an enormous amount of expectation on Luca to a emerge as a top three or four player in the NBA. And you've got people anointing him as like on his way to Springfield. Like the bus, the end of the line is Springfield. How does it feel to be cheering for a guy who has all this at his feet? It's almost too much. It's really funny because, well, first off, my fandom in general, I tend to elevate people.

I mean, I've essentially treated Monta Ellis the same way I treated Luca Dantius when he was with us. But to see it actually unfold is like wild. But, you know, the last two years have been super fun because of obviously, we've talked about this a lot, the expectations of those players when they're not where they should be is actually the most fun to cheer for. I remember the ringer would put out these graphics that were like the tiers in which teams fell into. And last year, Dallas was in like tier three and I was pissed.

I was like, what the hell, whatever. And this year they're in Team Two. And I'm just like, yeah. Now, this year they're in Team 2, and I'm like, let's all tap the brakes just a second, okay? Because now the expectations are on. And I'm nervous, but what's been thrilling about watching Luca Donchitz is that every time it feels like, okay, this is a test. And just based on, you know, Mavericks fandom besides Dirk, like, it's kind of always fallen short. He's always sort of excelled.

And the Clippers series last year was one of those moments where it was like, like, oh my God. This is really happening. This is really happening. They're literally, they're studying him. They're scouting him. They're literally, like, there's no one else to stop other than Trey Burke. Shout out.

But there's no one else to stop. And he came through almost just basically every single time. And so I'm nervous, but like actually genuinely excited. I believe in them. So where Jason is coming into almost every NBA game, like it's this like referendum on Lucas legend. Tyler, do you have any expectations for this season? Because the Thunder are basically an experiment.

Absolutely not as far as expectations are concerned. I'm looking at this as a developmental year. I want SGA taking 30 shots a game. Let's get Poku on the floor immediately. Let him take his bumps and bruises. Let's give him 25 minutes a night. Let him make mistakes. But yeah, I think this is just sort of like,

I mean, Presti wrote in July of 2019 in the Oklahomaan basically this, you know, long letter that basically said, get ready because we're going to suck for a little bit. And like, and, you know, sort of using very thundery words like, you know, replenish, you know, or reposition, things like that or whatever. But, yeah, I mean, my expectation for this year is to hopefully be able to get excited about some of the young guys we have in. you know, Maladone looked good the other night, so we're pumped up about that.

Like, what's the over, under on games you will watch this year, you think? Will you watch, like, every,

every Thunder game you can? Yes. I'll watch everyone that I can. I won't, like, organize my evening around it now. Um, you know,

I can catch it the next day, uh, on league pass or something. But yeah, it's not like, it's not as, it's not as present. I,

look, I, as somebody went through, the process years, like sometimes it's more of a, like, you need to take a supervisory role in the team, not necessarily a hands-on role. Well, for so, I mean, we've been, you know, highly competitive since, you know, whatever, since 2011, you know, 10, we make the playoffs the first time. But especially since, like, 2012, the expectations have been bonkers every year, pretty

much. Save the, save the one, like the 2016, you know, Russ goes bananas. and I don't think anybody was expecting much in terms of, you know, team success there. Yeah, but that became like an anthem that everybody, like, rallied around. Yes, it was, yeah, yeah. Now it's sort of like, I think of this is like, you know what, we're going to, you know, I'm going to get a lot of rest as a fan, you know. I'm going to get a lot of treatment, you know. Yeah.

Maybe, you know, I'm going to, you know, go down to Turks and Kikos for a little bit or something like that. Relax, you know, come back next season, refreshed, you know, ready to hopefully watch some Cade Cunningham. You know what I mean? that's the thing. So we're Tyler's going into this season, fast and easy free, Jason. The one thing I wanted to ask you about,

you mentioned that Clippers series, is the Luca health question, which is Luca doesn't seem like necessarily injury probe, but he was getting targeted a little bit in that Clippers series, and I know from cheering for Embed and following him on a night-to-night basis, like every time he hits the deck,

you kind of hold your breath. I'm sure Pelicans fans back when AD was there, where like, is this guy going to get up? Like, did he, what weird bone did he fracture that, like, is going to take him out for 25 games? Are you starting to feel like almost like overly protective of Luca? And does it change the way you watch basketball? It does. For like a number of different reasons.

I mean, I feel like Tyler's going into what I just came out of, basically, which is not caring, you know, spend a little more time with family, be a little bit of a better human being. just generally. But that Clipper series brought out a side of me, which I'm sure... The Cowboys fan came out, I bet. Yeah, well, Tyler's wife's Clippers fan, and I actively had to be thoughtful

of some of the things I was saying because I was like, oh, I don't want anyone to think I'm directing this at anyone, but I was getting really pissed, and I haven't been pissed in a long time. And with regards to Luca's, like, Luca's health, it's, I feel like I'm watching him and I'm constantly saying,

be careful because he is trying to draw fouls a lot. He exaggerates a lot. And sometimes unnecessarily falls down, actually quite often. And it worries me just given his, you know, I mean, he's obviously, you know, very, he's like a choreographer with the ball. But sometimes when he falls, it looks really like it hurts. Like it just really, really hurts. I don't know if it's weight going down with him or what.

it is. But so it worries me. And obviously, like, you know, if we want to get into, to, you know, some of the Morris twin stuff, we can. But I, yeah, I got real pissed. And I, in a way that I have not gotten in a long, long time. I'm sure you're Morris twin, like, you know, your drafts on cyber dust. You're glad that they've been dissolved by a million times. I have gone, I, I have legitimately gone back and deleted a couple tweets from that series. I'm not, kidding. Those tweets could have reached the animosity levels that when DeAndre Jordan backed out of the deal with the Mazz back then you were... Oh yeah, that wasn't pretty. I think you dodged a bullet on that one. Well, yeah. One of the most fun parts about the process, aside from not watching the basketball and having a lot more time to read and enrich myself as a human being, is the emergence of different folk heroes that can come out of these teams with zero expectations and a lot of no-name guys. And you talked about Poku. you talked about. I was wondering if you had gotten a Theo Maldon tattoo yet or not yet.

I'm still, I'm working with several designers on the, on exactly what I want. And I'm excited to see, excited to see what we come up with. And nobody probably personifies this more than Lou Dork. Obviously, like in the same way that maybe on a lesser scale, Luca sort of cemented his legend in the playoffs. Like Lou Dort like almost took the rockets out of the playoffs. maybe on a lesser scale. Come on. I converted to doortism early last year and have been a practicing dordas ever since.

Yeah. Is that a Sunday's thing or is that more of a like... Every day of the week, baby. No, I mean, I love him so much. He plays so hard. Chris Paul was on the JJ Reddick podcast the other day and he was talking about how you can sort of deal with the misses. because of how hard he's playing on the other end.

And just the way that he guarded Hardin where there weren't any theatrics or anything like that from Dort. He was just like, you know, what Austin Rivers was doing some like Instagram Live and he said, and somebody asked him about Dort, he goes, Dort, he was sliding them feet. Basketball camp stuff, yeah.

Absolutely. I mean, I also think that part of it is like, what an unbelievable name. Yeah. Just like what a perfect, name like either way and I think that that matters it's like Zion I mean half the battle was won when his parents named him Zion he we're in a real golden age of NBA names you know what I grew up this podcast is obviously very indebted to a guy named

Alan you know he managed to make that cool but it's not like Janus and Luca and LeBron like you know what I mean like those those were a real high watermark So awesome. A precious entering the league this year. It's incredible. Yeah, that's right. So to kind of like turn the corner here on the conversation, I'm curious. Guys, what does success look like this year?

Because, Tyler, for you, I'm worried that, like, the Thunder might sneakily be not bad enough. I wasn't going to say, good. After watching the first preseason game against the Spurs, honestly, like, I was texting my friend and I was like, hey, we're going to need some guys to sit out a lot. We need to, we need to pump the brakes on this. Because I'm like honestly Chris Nothing would make me happier than for us to lose every game next year Just like in I want to be in that top three I want to have the the best possible percentage

Yeah Percentage chance to get that top pick And so Because that's the thing is Kate Cunningham is at Oklahoma State now It's too you are you are set up for the save It could it like it it seems too perfect to not happen So I'm sure it won't based off of the Thunder's history.

But, yeah, I want to see guys get better. I would like to see Dort, you know, like improve on his jump shot. I would like to see SGA be able to, like, really handle the load as like, you know, a number one option, at least for the time being. You know, I want to see, like, you know, Poku start to, you know, show more than just kind of flashes every now and again. You know, it becomes a lot more about like, you know, who could this guy be? Right. Jason, what about you? Are your expectations tied up in Luca's individual performance or the Mavericks as a team?

It's definitely the Mavericks as a team now. I mean, we're playing Christmas Day against the Lakers. And like that game, that's too much stress for Christmas. Like that game, there's a lot writing on that game. But success, success to me, it really, I don't think anyone expected the Mavericks to do as well as they did with the clippers. So it's almost as though the expectations are, they feel a little too high for me, especially given the pieces that they put around Luca. I mean, KOC is like super high on them. He's gassing me up a little bit.

So I think, you know, for me, I would be very pleased with the playoff series win, a really competitive. second round. I would love like a really like epic Lakers versus Maverick series in which Luca goes toe to toe with LeBron. And so that to me would be

success. Like complete letdown would be another first round exit. That would be a letdown unless it had to do with injuries or whatnot. But yeah, that would all things equal, that would be disappointing. I'm trying to decide now which of the teams have better names.

Because I think especially in the future, like if the Thunder get Cade, we're looking at a team with Shea, Cade, Dort, and Poku. Dude, and like, Basley. Basley, good name. That's not cool. This is a cool name. Lucas is playing with a guy named Josh. You guys are saying it wrong.

You guys say Basley. That's a cool way to say it. I was going to take the next five minutes to defend the name Josh, but I'll hold it. Go ahead. I mean, if you're in the pocket of Big Josh, you're more than welcome to defend him. Guys, thank you so much for joining me today. And I hope to have you on later in the season so we can kind of look back and reflect on this moment

where anything was possible for both of your teams. Absolutely. Thanks for having us. Thanks to Mirren, Tyler, and Jason. I really love talking to them today. And it's been really a blast talking to everybody and Musa and Kirk from the first episode. Check that out if you haven't of the answer.

It's time now for the Philly Special. What is the Philly Special? Well, it's to play the one that Eagles, the Super Bowl, in case you guys missed out on that. what it is for this podcast's purposes is my ISO one-on-one wing play where I just talk Sixers like for 45 seconds. This entire episode has been about expectations and about what people are expecting from from different players, from different teams this season. And, you know, everybody right now is talking about their predictions or where they think so-and-so is going to end up. So my feeling

special to speak is about the Sixers' expectations. And it's not about championship or finals or Eastern Conference Finals, it's really about being proactive. And it's about these two guys who come into the franchise, Darrell and Doc, taking a good look at this team in the first half of the season and seeing what they've got and seeing whether or not this Embed Simmons Axis with Tobias Harris and Danny Green and Seth Curry and Jake Milton around them, how good they are. Because I don't really know that we know the answer to that question yet because there was so many other things eating away at this franchise over the last couple of years.

really since the Colangelo exit. You can tell me the Sixers are going to come in fifth. You can tell me that the Sixers are going to win the East. I wouldn't be surprised by it either. I just can't wait to watch them play. Just coming up on the answer, so we'll be off next Friday and the following Friday for Christmas and New Year's,

but we'll be back in 2021. And we can't wait to talk to you about the season. By that point, I expect the Sixers to be about 12 and O, I think. So we'll be coasting and fielding offers. You know, maybe Harden for Corkmas. Who knows? Until then, thanks for listening. me the answer. We'll see you soon.