The Ringer NBA Show - What Can Klay Thompson and James Wiseman Offer the Warriors This Season? | Real Ones

Episode Date: October 4, 2021

Fresh off Warriors media day and the first preseason game of the season, Logan and Raja discuss Klay Thompson’s mindset going into this season (0:40) and what James Wiseman’s role will be (18:15). Then they talk about the absolute mess that the Ben Simmons situation has become (32:05), Zion Williamson’s position in New Orleans (45:05), and the money Kyrie Irving stands to lose by not getting vaccinated (52:00) before each awarding their Real One of the Week (53:30). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? I'm JJ John D. Stramski. And I'm Jason Gough, and if you haven't heard, the ringer has gone local. I'm bringing the fire. I'm bringing the rain from the Big Apple with my show, New York, New York. And I'm reppping Shy Town with my new show The Full Go on All Things Chicago. We've got episodes three nights a week with all the reaction to the local teams and guests. Plus bonus episodes around all the big games and storylines.

So whether you're uptown, downtown, downtown, in the burbs, or a transplant. Make sure you follow New York, New York, and the full go on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. What's popping? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here with Raja Bell. Raja, you got your yellow sweater on. You seem like you're happy. It's green, bro. It's green, dude. Get your contrast together. It's fucking green, man. It's green. All right. Is that an ode to your one game with the Warriors playing in Boston? Is that what it is? Is that what we're doing this week? Or is it just because it's fall in Florida right now?

What's what's going? What's the vibe right now? It's because after I had my coffee and I walked into my clock. It was the first thing I saw. So it got thrown on real quick. That's what it is. That's the thought that went into this. You know what's crazy is like, you know, obviously me and you are, there's a difference in age there, right? There's definitely a difference in age, difference in age and life experience.

But I would like to tell you that I'm getting to the age now where I'm like that with sweaters. Is it washed, right? It doesn't really matter if it goes with the fit. Is it washed right now? Is it the first thing I see? Is it borderline cool enough to be outside? Will you be cool going outside?

Is it borderline acceptable? That's all it is. I don't care if there's rips in it. Is it borderline acceptable to go outside? And if that's the case, that I'm going to wear it. It's fascinating because I was very, I mean, my vanity level at your age was off the charts. I mean, you know, shit had to be pristine, bro. Like we were spending way too much time worrying about where the wrinklage was.

and if it went with this and that. And I don't know at what point life kind of passed me by and I just woke up one morning and I was like, yeah, just give me that, bro. I just give me that. I'll wear these flip flops. I have ashy knuckles on my toe.

I got basketball player feet. You know what I was like where like just beat up beyond belief. Like I don't give a shit. Like I'm in the grocery store with the toes out. I don't know when that happened. I would have never done that 10 years ago. But it's just what it is.

I got the I got the football wearing a broke football player wearing a size two small feet Oh yeah Yeah you know what I'm talking about I have that But I don't care

You know what what is good with that Crocs You just wear crocs bro I just wear those around You have you haven't got on the crock way Kids I can't do crocs bro I'm straight I'm straight old school Like chancletas

You know I don't I can't do the crocs See I'm it's crazy Because it's like we're in the same vibe But just different parts To the country Like I'm in California where that's kind of acceptable and things like that little new age thing. But you also are in the

Florida where it's like, yo, bro, we're going to wear our, we're going to wear our, not even slides. What's the one with the toe with the one with in the middle of the flip flops. We're flip flops. Exactly. Flip flops all day. That's what I'm rocking right now. Flip flops. Tows out no matter what. My young bucks are in the crocs, though. Like they find themselves. So they're at an interesting age because they went from up until about 11, up until about 11. It did not matter how many clothes you bought them. Whatever was clean and on the top. of their drawer, like that's what was going on. It could be the same shit like 12 days in a row.

But if it was the first thing they saw, they were putting it on. So these little dudes are at ages now where they want, they're getting into their vibe a little bit, right? Like it's, they're putting it together and trying to keep up with the stuff. So they're actually getting into the area of life where I just departed from. It's funny where you, when you're a kid and we're just really in the weeds right now, and I don't really care. It's funny how you get as a child when you're like, yo, I don't care because my parents are just going to

dress me. Like, they're going to dress me. And in hindsight, they're going to dress me just enough so I can get, like, outside and I can be acceptable outside. And then you start taking ownership of what you wear and your clothes and stuff like that. And you start being swaggy, right? Especially when you get into the teenage, probably like an eight-year window when you get from the teenage era into college where you're just like really into it, right? And then you get a job. And then, like, you have, like, bills and stuff. And you can't justify, like, buying all the clothes that you want to buy and then you're going back to like serve like a serviceable couple of outfits and then the rest is like yo i got novelty teas and like shorts and i really don't give a fuck right now

that's just the evolutionary life ladies and gentlemen there it is broken down it broken down in the first 10 minutes of real ones yes there we go man there we go okay we're so let's can i give you a little rant let me just give you a little rant go ahead rye hopefully it ties in like this might this isn't NBA centric um as as i ran about it but it could wind up being that way A pet peeve of mine. All right. I deal with it a lot. I have four kids,

three of them playing competitive sports. Coaches that yell at kids without preparing them. So what I mean is like yelling at a kid in and of itself does not make me squeamish at all. I don't have a problem yelling at a kid. Not even an issue for me, right? Yeah. It's what you're yelling at them for. And have you prepared them for them to be culpable to get yelled at, right?

So like if you haven't taught the kid what you're at, asking him to do on a basketball court or a football field, not told him, telling him to do something and teaching him to do it or her are two completely different things. So if you haven't taught them to do it, like, don't be yelling and screaming at him because you're embarrassed. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's a real pet peeve of mine. I sit there and I kind of let, you know, I'm trying to be the best dad. Is that what you been going on there this weekend? Yeah, a little bit. And I was cool. Like, hey, you know, like I've been there. I've coached. I'm not saying it's the easiest gig in the world, but it is a pet peeve of mine because it doesn't just

happen like to my kids or your kids. That happens on a lot of levels. You just take for granted that people are great coaches and sometimes they're not, right? Coaches are teachers and it really, you know, you're like, yeah, goddamn, bro, that's tough, man. You're yelling at that kid. You did not prepare him to do what you're asking him to do and then you flipped out on him. Yeah, you know, it's crazy when I realize it's like, you know, when you're in Pop Warner and when you're in basketball, you think that these people that are coaching you are like older and wiser and all these things. not to say that they aren't, but in hindsight, they're like 23, 24 trying to figure it out as assistant coaches. First coaching gig.

First coaching gig ever. They're really just trying to help out, right? So they don't know exactly. But I do agree with you. I do not like non-purposeful critiques, right? What are you trying to accomplish with your critiques? Are you trying to tell me what I did wrong? Are you trying to show me up?

Because that's what goes in the mind of not just a kid, but a player in general. Like, are you yelling at me because you told me this 17 times in like 18 different ways and I still didn't get it? And you're like, dude, I literally laid this out for you. We don't have time right now. And I'm giving you all that I got. Or is it that you feel embarrassed and you're like, I should have probably coached him up a bit more and I didn't. And now I'm yelling at this kid. It's funny.

It goes from there to also like the even the NBA ranks that happens. Just the baseline level of respect. Yeah. Yep. And you could typically, I mean, you as a kid would know if you've been prepped. As a parent, if you're at enough practices, you'll definitely know. Because what you're yelling at him, like if that kid's been in, like, let's use my son, for instance. If you've taught my son how to keep outside leverage as a cornerback, keep the ball and make it go back inside and then come back into the play and make a tackle and he doesn't do that.

And I have watched him do drills every night to support that. Well, I'm going to yell at his ass too because that's what he's supposed to do. But if you've never, ever done a drill to do that or taught him to do it and now you're yelling at him, like, I don't know, I don't know that he's supposed to be yelled at for that. So anyway, it's definitely Monday, October 4th right now. We are in a bag. You're talking about outside shades. You're talking about the tackle pulling from the other side. You're really in a bag right now. You're talking about coaching. And it's a great segue to where I've. was yesterday and just talking about my week. Guess who I saw yesterday? Who played Brooklyn and the

Lakers, Stephen Nash, David Vanderpull? I saw Steve Nash briefly yesterday. Not enough. I didn't, we both had the mask on at Staples Center, right? And I just was like, I didn't know if it was him, but also, you know, you have to do this, the sneaky, like, looking to see if that's the person. And I'm like, hey, are you such and such? He was in an office. The door was open, but I didn't want to, like, I didn't want to say anything. So, Steve Nass, if you're listening, what's up? That was me in the gray shirt.

But I saw one Amari Stadamire. Oh, Israel? I saw Israel at the, during the pregame festivities. I saw him and Phil Handy. Phil Handy actually introduced me to Amari, because, you know, Phil Handy, Oakland dude had to tap in with Phil Handy. Phil was like, hey, you know, Amari. I'm like, I didn't, I'm so blind.

I didn't know it was Amari because I was across when I was looking for Phil. So I see Phil. He's like, hey, is there Amari? I was like, yo, Amari, what am I going to say? Yo, I know Raja from the pod. We're going to, we've been trying to get you on the pod. He was like, no doubt, no doubt, no doubt. Raja, I believe coaches my kids at American Heritage in Miami.

Is that what it is? Yes. He was like, young deuce is in the program. He said, he said, yeah, man, Roger coaches my kid at American Heritage down in Miami. and like assume that I was out of Florida. I'm like, no, I'm out in the bay. Woo-woo. And then I'm like, yo, man, we got to get you on the pod.

What's up? He was like, yo, man, I'm down. Tap in. Like, have Rod tap in with me. Let's get it. So, there we go. Friend of the show, Marie Stademeyer. You've got to tap in with him, Roger, is all I'm saying.

I will definitely tap in with Amari. So I don't know if you follow Steve Nash's Instagram, but Amari this weekend. So, first of all, you know, we joke a lot about, like, me being on the Brooklyn and staff and how fun that would be and stuff like that. You are definitely staff adjacent and I think you're okay with that. Let me just say though, never have I been more jelly than I was this week watching all of their Instagrams because now not only they have Steve, but they got Amari, who I'm good friends with, and they got my man David Vanderpoole who I've no longer than all of those dudes.

So like, and Adam Harrington, who I've known since I played with Dallas. And on their Instagrams, like I see Adam Harrington and David Vanderpoo out there playing And what's the course out there in San Diego, man? Is it Pinehurst or one of those? No, no, no, no. Tori Pines. Tori Pines. They're out there shooting 115s and shit.

Amari on Steve's Instagram is surfing baby 18 inch waves and shit. Like I was really, there was a point this weekend where I was like, this is some bullshit. You were also like, Logan, I'm coming to the West Coast right now. I already took my flight. I am coming to the West Coast right now. They look like they're having a blast. Yes. I was

Yeah. Also like the We've talked about what's going on with Brooklyn, you know, to a T. Yo, they looked very laid back over there. They looked like they had a great time and they spent most of the last week

in San Diego had their like game against the Lakers yesterday, a little preseasoning game. I think only Hardin played. They were just all vibes, man. It looked like they were having a great time. It was a great vibe. And so yeah, man,

friend of the show. Amari Stottomier says tap in with him. And so that transitions into, I'm doing like a California tour of just places. I went to last week I was at a Warriors Media Day. And it was, I got to see everybody, got to see Steve, Steve Kerr, got to see Bob Myers was also there, got to see Juan Tiscono Anderson in the flesh. He was, he had his, he, you're going to be proud of him on this. He did what you told him to do. And when we had him on the pod, he had a Kodak camera, a disposable Kodak camera was taking pictures of everything.

He was taking selfies with everybody. He was like, yo, I don't want to miss this moment and was like, I'm capturing this moment and had this little disposable camera with him throughout the whole time. So he had a great time. So saw Juan. And it was a nice little vibe there. It was nice, man. They had all the pressers at what they called the Sky Bar at Chase Center where you can see like the presser. Behind the person that's behind him, you could see, like, views of the Bay Bridge, the whole Bay Area, Oakland.

It was great. It was great. You got to come up to Chase Center Roger. But I saw one, Steph Curry, who told me, who apparently is an occasional listener of the real ones. Occasional listener of the real ones. Wow. Wow. What's saying. What up, yeah. What's had it, player. So he goes and he talks about, yeah, man, Raja, he wasn't around much, but when he was around, he was a really great vet. Really great vet. Oh. So he had some kind words to say about you once Steph Curry said that, you know, you're a great vet during your very abbreviated time in the bay.

I've said this before about Steph. Fantastic family, dude. Like, just comes from good stuff. Like, he's a great dude, too. But, you know, when I played in Charlotte, his dad was doing the broadcasts. Like, Del was on the broadcast and stuff. And so he was getting it off. I think the first year, he was still at Davidson.

And I would, you know, ask Pops about him and nobody knew where he was going to get drafted or what. You know, and then he obviously did what he did in the draft and came into the league. And I would keep up with him through Pops. Just a great dude, man. And that was a real cool team, Logan, because it was a bunch. I've referenced that team before and how young they were and who was on that team. and I really felt like if the circumstances had been different, I could have been more to them.

Do you know what I mean? Not that I was going to be a great player or anything, but I just couldn't be with them a lot because I was injured and then they needed the roster spot and stuff like that. But I also remember that time kind of fondly, man. I had a good time out in the Bay Area. Piedmont represent. Piedmont represent.

I don't even feel good about saying that. There's going to bother probably a lot of listeners that disowned me on that one. I didn't really mean that, guys. I didn't really mean that. But it was great, man. I think, I don't know, man. What do you think about the Warriors right now?

Do you think that they're going to be? What do you think they're going to be right now? They're just, whenever the big talk around media day was like, yo, oh, that's who I need to talk to you about. There's this big thing about, you know, the Warriors and, you know, when Clay comes back what they're going to be and things like this, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something, all you real ones out there. and Raja here, Sasha Mack on the boards. Let me tell you something.

Clay Thompson is locked the fuck in right now. He is locked in in a way that I have never seen him before. So where we went into the media room. We went into the warriors like practice, like after practice and things like that, right? And he's afterwards, he's talking about. y'all don't want it like me as he's doing his post-practice shooting drills. And he's just psyching himself out. He's like, y'all don't want it like me.

I bleed this and I want this. I want this. And y'all don't want it like me. This is my, it's not just basketball to me. It's not just basketball to be. And he's walking, he's taking jumpers. He's ready to roll. He's walking to the other side of the court where Draymond Green is shooting like, you know,

like the free throws that you do after practice. You just give your shots up. He's talking to Draymond Green, and it's like, they don't want, it ain't just basketball, right? It ain't just basketball. And then running full speed to the other side, shoot jumpers and just cashing them all out. He's shooting the way where, you know, not even following through. He's just shooting it and just like letting his hands go. Like, Clay was in a real focused bag on here, and he can't, he can't, he can't, um, can't scrimmage just yet.

He's doing live work, but can't scrimmage yet. So he's chopping at the bit. He has his headband on. on and his wristband on. I don't know what the warriors are going to be. I don't even think that their title contenders by any stretch. But Clay was locked in, and it was good to see Clay locked in that way. Hearing that information, how do you feel hearing that secondhand?

So it makes me kind of warm and fuzzy inside because he sounds a lot like me in terms of mindset. Like, he sounds borderline crazy, which I like. I like that. I do. And I'd be really, really happy for him if he could. come back and be a very high percentage of himself because those are two pretty nasty injuries that he sustained. So that's good. It makes me happy to hear that. What do I think about the Warriors? I think a few things. Number one, you have Steph Curry and I'll throw Draymond in there.

Like you have, when those two get together, they know how to play with each other. It's like a choreograph kind of dance, man. Like they just get it. And you have Steve Kerr, who's not unwilling to flip the script, roll the dice on something new, kind of reinvent yourself on the fly. You saw the way they played last year when they were without the pieces, right? So, you know, when you start with pieces like that and a coach that's very willing to kind of, you know, tinker and move things around, I think you have a shot. If Clay Thompson is 85% of himself, 90% of himself, I think they could be dangerous. Now, the one thing that I

I can't put my finger on and you might have a better feel for it than I do is what James Wiseman looks like right now. Like where is he on his evolution to being a contributor on a championship level team? Do you have to be not a world leader? No, no, that's a good question. I do have some insight, but go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm saying not a, not a, not a, not a, not a, not a, not reaching his potential as a, as a high

pick like that. I'm just talking about can he be a solid contributor that you can count on in a chance championship run. And if those things align, I would not count Golden State out. They wouldn't be a favorite of mine. But I would put them in the mix to be, you don't want to see them. I promise you that. Yeah, I don't know where Wiseman is right now in terms of how he can contribute to a team right now because he hasn't played any games, right? But what I will say is, you know, I talk to him this summer for a story I'm doing that's going to come out a couple weeks. I'll be on the, Y'all be on the lookout for that.

And so I was talking to him, and, like, you really see that he wants this, bro. Like, he really wants this season to work out. He really was, you could tell that he was kind of affected by, you know, last year with the injuries, with, you caught COVID. And then also other rookies playing better than he did, right? you know, the Anthony Edwards of the world, the lamella balls of the world, who got a lot of acclaim after their first year and they're already writing this dude off. And so I saw that, I heard that on the, we had a phone call about, I think about a month ago and then also seeing him up close at practice, even like the post practice stuff where he's taking every

drill very seriously in the way that like, sometimes you just want to tell him to relax. Like if you miss a shot, it's not the end of the world, right? but, you know, there's a lot of, if he misses a shot, fuck, right? Or something like that or things like that to where it's like, you know he wants this. You just want to tell him just to settle down and just, yo, it's going to let the game come to you. But he's like, yo, man, I need it this year. And so there's a lot of fire under James Wiseman, you can see. I just, if I was a coach, I'd want him to channel like, okay.

Yeah. It's okay. You got this. Just relax. Yeah. Yeah, no, because I was going to say, you got to harness that. That's a dangerous area. I've lived in that area where there's so much riding on it in your mind that when it goes well, it's great and it fuels you.

And if it goes bad, you've just built up so much unneeded pressure. Yeah. That it really is counterproductive. But I think Steve Kerr is great for that in their style. And I want to go back to something because you talked about Nash and those guys. Just real quick. I'm just going to sidebar. Yeah.

The type of camp that it looked like, like you said, they looked like it was all vibes. Golden States a lot like that. When I played, you know, I was in a lot of different type of camps. Like Jerry Sloan's camps were two hours in the morning. Physical, like banging, almost fighting each other. Yeah, like fighting. And then, you know, you go back to the hotel, you grab a lunch, you take a nap, and then you're back in the gym for two and a half hours at night

where your scrimmage and getting up and down, and you did that for seven days. So, like, you'd leave there and you'd be, I mean, shit, you're mostly injured because of the, you know, the grueling nature of the practice. Larry Browns were a little bit like that. And then I were in other camps, you know, obviously Mike DeAntoni, we go to University of Arizona and Don Nelson's camps were like that. And so I always felt like the more laid back, we get to work while we're on the court. We work hard. But once we're off the court, like, your bodies are at a point where you can still go out and have dinners.

together and hang out and maybe, you know, do some team building type of things. I felt those camps were the more productive camps at the end of the day. Yeah. I think from what I see from the Warriors camp and what I've known about Steve and how he runs it, Steve Kerr and how he runs it is a lot of hard work at the end of practice, which means like post-practice stuff. You see Steph on the far court really getting his reps in, really just like, I'm going to go hard on every rep for my post-price.

shooting drills, right? Because you're, and then you see Clay going really hard on his post practice because while the practices aren't necessarily, they're not Miami heat level, they'll get their scrimmages in and things like that, but that might be the hardest thing because this is a veteran-led group, right? You've got, you know, Steph is in his 30s, strays in his 30s. You can't really run these guys that hard as, got Andre Goddala, who's like in his, what, 18, 19 season. You can't really run these guys, but they are getting their work. And so that's when, I think that's why you see Wiseman and you see Dre, or you see Wiseman and you see Clay going really hard and Wiseman being just so hard on himself because this is

where he proves himself, right? And this is where he thinks he's going to make a mark. Whereas it's like, no, we've seen the stuff that you can do. You don't have to be the finished product version of yourself just yet. You just got to be a contributor right now. Who's his guy on that staff? Everybody has a guy, especially young players. They have a guy. They got the coach that's working with Wiseman. He's an addition from, he's an assistant coach in a Serbian league and help coached Nicola Yolkich. Okay. And so they're tasking him with trying to get a more European game because Steve Kerr said that European bigs are just way more developed than American bigs going out.

So he wants to, a European coach to work with Wiseman and his skill set. I like the thought process there. So you talk about James Wiseman. I asked about whether he was going to be ready or not. You talked about how locked in he is. We got to a point where you got to channel that, right? Where, you know, take it too far. One side, it's great.

Take it too far on the other side. It's not great. Like, we need to be right in the middle. So most teams, and you know this, especially young players. Like, as you become an older player, you're cool with every coach. Most of them, right? They're your guys. But when you're young, you usually have a guy that looks out for you.

It takes you under their wing. I would imagine Jaron was that guy for James. Geron Collins. Jaron Collins, right. Great teammate, great coach, great family. So it's going to be interesting to see if this coach, like being new and all to the NBA, maybe there even being some sort of a language barrier, I don't know, if he can be that. Because that's as important as the on-court stuff.

I mean, I had, you know, my, and I can only really talk from my experiences. So when I was in Philly, you know, I was, I was young. I was kind of lost. I mean, I was drifting. Mike Woodson, you remember he became coached, like he coached the Knicks. He coached the Hawks. Like Mike Woodson, Woody was my guy, bro. Woodo played me 101 every day.

Woodo, like, you know, taught me ropes, gave me suits, like, really looked out for me, talked to me about, you know, what it was to be a pro. just, you know, real shaping conversations that help keep me grounded. And real talk help keep me out of the stupid shit that you could easily fall into. And I'm not saying I didn't still fall into some. But that's important just to keep your head about you, right? Like, just to keep in your ear when things aren't going great. Head coaches don't always have the time for that.

Steve Kerr might have a time for Steph. He might not have a time for James. I can't, I don't know. But that's when that guy comes into play. Yep. Yeah. No, you're right. You're right.

And people don't, I think we, especially over the last, you know, for a few years, we have, I think in a lot of ways made these players numbers, you know, when you talk about what's his whatever, his P.R. Whatever is his rim. I don't know. Everything, we've made these players by and large numbers. And I think that we've kind of lost sight of the fact sometimes that, hey, man, these people are people too. And the reason why their numbers would be lagging is because something on the mental side. Right. And I think we're starting to see what you say is very valid because, oh, man, when you're 19, 20 years old, you're staying on the West Coast. I think, I think, uh, Wiseman's mom lives with him. But I think. But if you're a world away from Nashville where you're from, you're in this new place, you've got to have a community around you. And yeah, the on court stuff is cool, but you got to have somebody that's like, yo, if I have a bad game, he's going to tell me like, you know, you're good. you're all right. You made, you fucked up here, but these are the things you can improve and these are the things I see in you. Absolutely. You need that. And for Wiseman, I hope he gets that, you know, because it seems like, you know, that might be something that a lot of the other rookies that we reference got, right? We talk about lamello ball.

You talk about Anthony Edwards. And I'm not saying that James didn't get that. But, you know, it's just, it's easier to do that when, you know, you're in another situation where, like, yo, it's not that many expectations. It's not that it's not, you're not trying to strive for a title, you know, and, you know, I hope that Wiseman gets that. So, yeah. No, they're, that's a really good point. The level of responsibility on James Wiseman, and this is going to sound counterintuitive because you're going to say, well, Anthony Edwards and Lamello have to do so much scoring and all of that. Yes, they do.

but they're not winning anything. You have a responsibility if you're James Wiseman. That team is in championship mode and you're playing with Hall of Famers. And so while I'm not asked to do maybe as much in terms of what shows up on a stat sheet every night,

there is a huge responsibility and amount of pressure on you to get that right. I've been that dude. Looking over at, looking over at Alan Iverson and DeKembe Matumbo, like, I'm really trying, man. I don't know. Yeah.

I hope this is good enough. Like, you know, like, that's a lot of pressure. I'm only going to shoot it once or twice, but, you know, I got a lot of other things I got to get right. And if I don't, you know, I don't want to be the reason. That's a whole other level of pressure. No, it's funny because I felt that way even, like, personally, they're coming to the ringer, you know, where you're like, yo, I'm young. This is somewhere I've always wanted to be. But, damn, like, yo, I got to host a pod.

I got to write these things. I got to figure it out. I don't really, like, you don't know until you know. and this is where you want to be. But with Wiseman, it is interesting because he's a guy that, like, oh, man, he might get him a line for averaging eight points a game, but that might be like something that they absolutely need. Like, give me eight and ten, dude. Like, it's fine.

And I think the perfect case study for him right now is a, is Kauai Linder, you know, where this is a guy that has Hall of Famers, you know, Steve, Steve Kerr always talks about Steph Curry being the Tim Duncan of the era right now in terms of just being a teammate, right? You have that type of guy on your team, and you have like different guys like a Draymond, a Clay, where, listen, there's a standard it needs to be said. We don't need you to score 20 a game, but when it's your time, when, you know, we're all old and things like that, that's what you do. And I think there's this talk that you can't do both simultaneously, where you can't win and develop. Yes, you can. The Spurs have done it. The Spurs have literally done it in front of our eyes. They just didn't. They weren't as popular as the Warriors, but it can be done.

It can definitely be done. And I would just say the roots of a lot of what Golden State does and who Steve Kerr and company are. It's probably based in the San Antonio mold to some degree. You have to have real organizational structure, stability, player development. That's why every NBA, you think every NBA team has run great, they're not. No. Like, they're not. Even some of your favorite and some of the best NBA teams that you like are not run worth a damn. They've got great players and they can overcome some of the things that are great in the organization.

But that's what it takes to achieve what you're talking about. And I do think they could potentially do it, you know? Yeah, it's funny because you were talking about the Brooklyn Nets and how their vibes or stuff are permeating to the point where you have FOMO. honestly man that's a golden state influence too i mean it is a phoenix influence but steve nas was a consultant with the war oh for sure for sure you know so like and and you know steve Kerr was a was obviously with the sons and things like that it's funny how good organizations are all interconnected like when you were with the sons it was a model way to run a one of basketball team at least right it was that was the colangelo's yeah right and so it's

It's just, it's interesting because, and that was why we asked Steve, I asked Steve Kerr, like, how do you make sure that James has the blinders on? Because it's not always a greener. We never, we don't know what type of organization Charlotte will be when they have a great player like Lamello, right? We don't know. Well, we do know what's going on in Minnesota right now with Anthony Edwards. It's a lot of turmoil there.

So, you know, situations are situations. They're all different. But Weisman has an opportunity to be really good still, even after one year. So I think that, you know, it was a good trip to Golden State to see what they got going over there. That's what's up. Yeah. Let's take a quick break. I want to talk to Raja about something near and dear to this podcast, Hart.

That's player empowerment. And we are back. Here to talk about player empowerment. And also, you know, how's that manifesting in this season to start? Let's talk about Ben Simmons first. Now, last week we talked right before Media Day. It was tricky. It was on Media Day Day day, but it was like before all the pressers and stuff came out and people talked and things like that.

So Ben Simmons. Now, Media Day last week, Doc Rivers talks about Ben Simmons and walks back his comments about, I don't know if he can be a championship point guard for our team. And he says, you know, heat of the moment, man, we're out of, you know, where it was after a postseason game. Da da da da da da. Now, they have done the, like the weird apology tour to like, I guess get back leverage putting Doc Rivers on like Stephen A. Smith's show and like just really trying to walk back these comments. It's weird. It's just weird what they're doing right now.

And they're trying to like get in front of what they said backwards to like, I guess bring Ben, Simmons back into the fold while also not keeping their leverage. I don't know what they're doing right now. You know what have been a good time to do that? When's that? Right after you fucking said it. It would have been a good time for your PR staff

to catch that the next day and be like, you know how that sounds. We need to get you on this. We need to get you on this local radio show real quick, sir. Too late, bro. Yeah. And I don't know if they want to keep him necessarily

or they're trying to win the PR. our battle because honestly I think the best the best way of doing this is just saying yeah Ben we fucking said it dude okay are you going to come to camp or you're not going to come to camp don't straddle the line on this set just put your put your just put your teeth in the sand and this is another thing man this is something that I'm just getting really

annoyed with right now I'm really getting annoyed with both this is both players and teams in general where they're like yo we love you and everything and then the next day something leaks out from either camp to like, yeah, this relationship is untenable. This relationship is this. This is like, yo, just say that I remember reading articles from the 80s and the 90s and even the early 2000s were honestly, Roger, your arrow just didn't give a fuck. You guys were like, yeah, I'm trying to get traded, sir. I don't want to be here.

This is untenable. This is, we need to make a deal happen. I don't like this, right? Let's make this work. And right now, it's just a lot of backdoor, a lot of petty, a lot of like subliminal stuff. Yo, we're going to take Ben Simmons's bread. We're going to take $8 million out of his pocket if he doesn't report. Stuff coming out in the athletic saying, you know, it's at the last straw.

It's like, dude, trade them or don't, okay? The leverage thing has already happened. We already got the leverage play of what you guys are asking. Either you're going to make a deal or you're not. man. You need to come up with this. I think this season is just end. It's run its course. The season is about to start. What are we doing here? Raja, are you agreeing with me or where am I at?

Yeah. I'm off base. Yes. No, no, no. I'm with you. Now, what I will say is someone's feet appear to be planted firmly in the sand. I think it's Ben Simmons. Yeah, Ben Simmons is not wavered at all. And, you know, I know they try to draw the comparison to like to Aaron Rogers and what was going on with the past. or, you know, Aaron Rogers was doing a lot of talking during the summer. Yeah. He was.

There was a lot of stuff coming out from Aaron. He even did, you know, different interviews and stuff in regards to it, kind of giving them like his subliminal demands of, you know, what could make this work, giving you some indication that maybe, just maybe, we'd be able to mend these fences. Ben Simmons has done nothing of the sort. Yeah. Like, he's just said, I'm not playing. Ben Simmons is chilling.

He's chilling. He's not doing any press. He's not answering any questions about it. He's just said, I'm not coming. And I won't play for the Sixers again. Now, I'm not in Ben Simmons' camp. So I don't know if he's just playing a really good game of hardball or if he really believes that. But from the Sixers perspective, yes, you want the man back.

I get it. But I would make the argument at this point that if he's not there this year and he doesn't make his money, I don't see how that really helps you. As a team. You as in Simmons? At the Sixers. Yeah, Sixers. Okay.

Right? Like, yeah, you're going to spite him. You're going to cut off your nose to spite your face, so to speak. I got it. Now, I'm not, Darrymore. I get it, bro. You ain't afraid. I understand.

But if you bring him back this year, I don't think you get a great version of Ben Simmons. If for some reason you guys can fix that and get him in the building and he doesn't want to lose all of this money and so he reports just so he doesn't have to lose the money, I think that's a bad thing to have a wrong. I think that's a bad thing to have around your organization right now. Full disclosure, I don't know what teams are offering for Ben Simmons. I wouldn't be in the habit of giving him away for a bag of chips either. So that plays into it as well.

But if there's a deal that's palatable and you're going to get some stuff that can really supplement Ben Simmons and Tobias, I'm not Ben Simmons, I'm sorry, Joel Embed and Tobias Harris and some of the pieces you have, I think you do that because this is going to be a mess, whether he's staying away all year and people are answering questions and there's this massive hole in your lineup or if he comes back and is like a shell of himself and doesn't want to be there and doesn't get along with his teammates. Either way, it's a shit show. What you don't want is what we saw last year with James Harding and where he literally comes out of, he comes to to camp after he told you all summer, I would like to, I don't want to be here after he told you

and you brought him back to camp and he came back overweight and saw the memes and things like that. He's just throwing passes to people's feet. He's not even tripping. Correct. And he's making his teammates pissed at him. You don't want that to happen because they're in a totally different situation than the Rockets were last year. The Six are in a totally different situation in the Rockets were last year and that they are trying to compete for a title. They're in a window.

They're in a window right now. And you don't want that to seep into the locker room. And let's be real, man. all of these feelings are valid, right? When you talk about Ben Simmons wanting to be traded. Of course he wants to be traded. Dog, you fucking said that he's not, he didn't even say that you said basically that he couldn't win with him on the roster.

You said something. That along the fact, after a playoff game in which he missed those free throws and was not clutched down the stretch. In a time when he needed his team to have his back, they did not. So, okay, it's untenable. I shouldn't be here. You see it from the Sixers vantage point. Yo, man, how many times are you going to not be clutch in a postseason series and come up short?

How many times are you going to do that from the Sixers vantage point? And then you see it from a Joelle and B point where, yo, if there's honesty all the time, it's from Joelle and B. He said all this is borderline. Kind of disrespectful was his words. He was like, yo, man, we actually made the roster in your eyes to fit along your eye in your gameplay and Ben Simmons. We made a roster to where we got

shooters. We got players that can play alongside you and it still didn't work. You know, it just, and it's kind of getting untenable in Philly right now. And then, this is something we didn't even talk about the Philly fan base, who you know well, Roger. That's never, that's not

going away. There's not going to go away. There's nothing Ben Simmons can do short of delivering a championship to Philly that will be enough to forgive him in the Philadelphia Sixers fan-based mind. There's nothing he can do. Nothing he can do. It's untenable all the way around. At this point, you should just trade him. The leverage is what it is. It all is what it is. You've got to just figure that out. And we're going in training camp right now. It just might as well as it just happened. But what should, hold on,

Real quick. Real quick. I want you to ask a question, but I want to just say this. For everyone, like, because when you say it, like my initial reaction is, oh, training camp. Like, you hear training camp, it's like a, ah, not a big deal. Training camp. Big deal.

Yeah. Big deal. It's when work starts. Yes. It's when, it's when, you know. It's when the best vibes of the season is happening. Absolutely. The best vibes of the season.

You know, and it's when the foundation and the, and is laid for who you're going to be as a team. It's when mantras are, are, are. are handed out in booklets of plays and the things are discussed about what's going to be the backbone of who you are as a team. That's when this starts to develop. So big deal for sure. So anyway, ask your question. What does this say about because there's the fear around the league that, oh, this is going to be a slippery slope. Everybody's going to want to get traded out of their deals within one year and two years of their extension, their rookie extensions. No, I mean, no, I don't, I think

this is a one-off thing. For one, I think that this is just a specific relationship thing. I don't think most players are going to try to take away leverage and have these leverage plays because honestly, man, it hasn't worked for everyone. It doesn't really work all the time. Maybe you're the players in the best situation. He ends up in the best situation for himself. But it doesn't necessarily help the next team that that is with them. They have to deal with that. And then on the fly, change plans and refocus their efforts to build around this player. who might also leave them, right? I don't think that it's a thing

where players are going to end up doing this all the time. I think that this is an isolated incident for one team and just the perfect amount of factors that happen to want to make this situation happen, right? I don't think, do you think this is a one-off thing or do you think that this has a slippery slope? I don't think it's a one-off. I don't necessarily know how slippery the slope is either.

I think in a league, personality is embraced and there's enough there's enough space for players to be who they are and act organically and be their true selves. It's not always the case in the NFL and some of their leagues where there's so much control by ownership.

In a league where that exists, you're going to have some of this because some dudes are going to do that. Not everyone's built like that, though. Not everyone's built. Like you see Bradley Beale. Bradley Bill, Bill's like, no, I'm straight. I'm not built like that. Bradley Bill been pump faking so many times on this trade request me or whatever.

he has in Washington. Yeah, but point being, like, he's, you know, if someone was disgruntled and losing would cause someone, like, and Bradley Bill has told you over and over again, like, I'm not doing it. I'm staying. I'm staying. So not every player is built to pull this card. But this league and the way

it's set up, is built to, if it's in you to do it, for you to do it. I will say that, and I've said this from the jump when a lot of this stuff happens when players, if you're, you have these, you know, powers that have been collectively bargained and you've got leverage in certain situations,

just be careful with abusing them because, you know, ownership isn't going to be in the habit of capitulating to like every demand a star player has, right? And they're going to look to gain some of that power back in the next collective bargaining agreement. And on the other side of that, I always found this interesting when I was in the front office. And maybe I'm oversimplifying it and I'm just not bright enough to understand it. When people would be like, like, just don't, other owners have to be, and other GMs have to be hoping that Darrell Mori does not do this, right?

Yeah. Like, please don't, just don't do it, Darrell. Don't fucking do it. Like, just hold, you know, because that's when the slippery slope, you know, can get slipperier. But again, you're in a league where players got a lot of leverage in situations like this, bro. Got a lot of leverage. And there's been so many different changes in this league.

Like, honestly, you can say, hey, man, players have this leverage. But then you see other situations where, you know, players having that leverage sometimes is great for both sides. I think about Oklahoma City when they had to, when they had Russell Westbrook on the roster and also had Paul George on the roster with these contracts, right? They were like, yo, man, I'm trying to go to the Clippers. Yo, man, I'm trying to, you're trying to rebuild. I'm not with that.

We're good. You know, just trade. out and then you can build another team, right? I think that there's a way where both can coexist, is I think, what I'm saying. But there's been another situation that's, I don't know if it's a situation. I think it's just something to keep an eye out on. That's Zion Williamson and New Orleans. We're starting to get these, and I honestly think that Zion holds as much power as he does

without actually saying a word right now because of what we saw in the process. pass with LeBron James and how much power he held his first few years in the league to where he could sign a shorter rookie extension and build on that leverage. I think we're seeing a reaction to that was Zion Williamson, whereas Zion hasn't made it to the postseason yet. Zion's been injured. He broke his foot this summer, right? But he's getting so much attention to where he's already getting axed.

Hey, man, like before he signs his extension. Hey, how long are you going to stay in New Orleans? How long are you going to be here? Can we make it happen? Can we make it work? And it's like, let's calm down and relax. Let's just calm down and relax. I'm pretty sure he's going to sign his extension.

He has to prove still, in my eyes, whether he could still win in New Orleans before he could make such demands, if he's making demands at all. What do you see when you see this Zion Williamson thing to keep an eye on right now? Yeah, look, you hit the nail on the head. The major difference between the two is Bronjames was winning basketball games. And playing basketball games. Well, yeah, he was, yeah, the first and foremost. But when he did, they were winning.

It was translating to wins. Like, you know, he was dragging teams to places they wouldn't ordinarily go without him being on the floor. Cyan does not have that effect on teams right now. I'm not saying he can't get to that point, but he does not. Like, that's not, I mean, I don't think that's an opinion. That's fact, right? You can look at those records, right?

Um, I don't know. Zion's an interesting one to me. I, you know, I don't, I try to stay out of Griff. Like, he's my guy and I don't, I don't really ask him a lot of questions about Zion and stuff like that because I don't, um, I just hope Griff tell me you ain't play no piano in that man's hotel room, dog. Like, we ain't, we ain't going to be doing that, Griff. Come on now. Um, I know Griff has vision. Um, I know Griff can execute on said vision.

I wonder. I've said this before. I think Zion isn't a phenomenal talent. I don't know what the recipe is, because I want to be fair to Zion here, I want to be real careful with what I say. I don't know what the recipe is around that talent for it to translate to being a viable playoff basketball team

with title aspirations. And I don't think that's Zion's fault, though. I'm not saying it's Zion's fault. I'm simply saying that I know, I know, Zion is such a unique talent though, Logan. Like, you know, I know that's what I'm saying, yeah. Yeah, I know Griff can see pieces working together and, and conventional talents, even at the high end of conventional talent, what pieces work with that.

But he's so unique that I don't know. So let me ask you a question. Okay. Who, what teams would trade for Zion right now? It would have to still be, I think, only thing you can do right now. now is trade him to another young team. So what, like Chicago or something or like, I don't, or like Oklahoma City maybe. Oh, but another young, another young bad basketball team is where he would go. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I think you brought up a great point when you said, you don't know what he is

because he's so transformative of an athlete. And it, like I said, it's not Zion's fault because, yo, we've never seen anything like this. We've seen variations of stuff like this to win, right? We've seen the Blake Griffins. We've seen the Sean Kemp's, but we haven't necessarily seen someone. We've never seen anything like that. And that can actually be to Zion's detriment that we haven't seen anything. I remember the first time he played at Golden State. He took the ball from the corner post, took the ball from the corner post, took a step and dunked the ball.

Like, not even a, like a small step and dunked from the corner post, Roger. Like from the hash? From the hash. Yeah. And I was like. The dunker spot down there? It was a little further from the dunker spot. I'm not trying to minimize how great.

This was pretty great. I was like, I'd never seen anybody just effortlessly do this. He's a freaky athlete. And he was just manhandling people. Like, he's just a freak athlete. But I just, we don't know. Do you send him in the post? I don't know.

Do you make him shoot three? We just don't know yet. I don't know. I don't know. And, you know, from the outside looking in, there have been a lot. First of all, you got to be healthy, bro. Whatever, whatever needs to happen for you to stay healthy. Yeah.

We have to figure that out. You know, I know the catch-22 you're in with the body, right? Like, the body is part of what makes him so hard to guard because it's so large for today's MBA. and it's coming at you so fast and, you know, it's this armor. But if it's also the reason you can't stay healthy, what do you do there? It's a good question. Do you lose weight? I don't know.

Does that marginalize who you are as a player? I don't have the answers. I'm just saying, like, these are tough conversations? Are we going to shed 15 to 20 pounds? Do you have the same effect if you shed 15 or 20 pounds? Maybe it helps you, you know, navigate injuries better, but you don't have those shoulders anymore. So, like, these are really tough conversations that they have to figure out.

I think from the outside looking in, I will say this. He has not, he doesn't lead. He's not, he doesn't lead in the way that you need a, a, a mega star that can get you over the hump and put a team on his back to win championships in the future needs the lead. He has to figure that out. He has to grow up, so to speak, and figure out, you know, how to make people around him. better, not just on the court. I mean, he was great at assisting, and I get it. Everyone's going to throw that in my, I don't mean it like that.

I mean, like, galvanize the troops, make this family atmosphere, keep dudes wanting to be, you know, supporting actors in your, in your production. Like, you, there's a lot that goes into being that type of leader. He has to figure that out. He's not there. Yeah, I don't want to, we're almost out of time. I don't want to spend too much time on Zion right now because he has to get to get to the postseason and do things before. Yeah.

do that. We would dedicate a whole segment to Luca Dachich, but we're not yet for design wipes. Not yet. So, Kyrie Irving. You know Kyrie Irving? Who, me? Yeah, you know, you know Kyrie Irving?

No, yeah. Now, we don't know yet if he's gotten a shot. We know that Andrew Wiggins has got his COVID shot and is going to be ready for, I told you about this. Money talks. Roger, I told you it was going to end up happening. These guys are going to,

going to end up getting vaccinated. But there's, we don't know yet, yet, if Kyrie has gotten vaccinated just yet. We don't know. I think he will. But in the event that he doesn't and he doesn't participate in home games, I'm saying this because I think that Kyrie is going to get vaccinated. But if he doesn't, he would lose roughly $380,000 per game, reported by Timbibs and Bobby Marks vspin.

That's crazy. Are you surprised by this? Are you think that he's going to get it? He's going to get the shot right. He's going to get the shot right. Hear me now. This is all I need. Here we go.

There is a 0% chance that Kyrie misses a season worth of home games with the Brooklyn Nets. That is not happening. Okay? Now, I'm not going to speculate as to what's got to be done for it not to happen. It's not happening, though. It's not happening. No, it's not going to happen. He's not missing.

anything? Carrey's hard-headed. He's hard-headed. He's on his whole season and what you're saying. That shit's not going to linger for it. It can't happen. Like, that's not happening. For sure.

Okay. I just want to get that out there. Let's get to the real one of the week. Raj, I got my real one, but I want you to go first. What do you got? My real one was my co-reel one of the week last week.

He was now real one for this week. It's one, Justin Fields. He looked really bad. he looked really bad a week ago. Matt Nagy calling plays. And I think they handed that off to Bill Leaser this weekend. Justin Fields looked like two different players, man.

They had him under center. They ran the ball a little bit. You know, some good play action stuff. Gay that boy, some deep shots. He looked like someone who you could see being a really good quarterback in years to come. Right? And that's what you want to see out of young players, right? He didn't look like the mess he looked like against the Browns.

And a lot of that was by design. And so he was co-reel run of the week last week. This week he is real one in a week. Standing up, Bears get a dub. Justin Fields looked good in his second start. Have you picked a team yet, Roger? Have you picked a football team yet for the season that you're rolling with? Are you going to pick a team?

I never pick a team. Okay. All right. I know you were like Chicago. I thought Chicago might be your team. I didn't know. I didn't know if they were going to be. No, son.

All right. I have co-reel ones of the week this week. One Mac Jones. Oh, yes, sir. One Mac Jones from the New England Patriots. Yes, sir. The one and only. Tom Brady.

The goat Tom Brady. Went into Foxborough. Didn't play his best game. He definitely has a bit of a noodle arm. He's old as fuck right now. You could just tell how old Tom is. He's a winner, but damn. You just called that man's arm a noodle?

He got a noodle right now. I saw him try to throw, listen, I try to see him throw a wheel route to one of his tight ends. And that thing just went over. It went to the sideline, dog. Wet, bro. We threw that away. Tom only needs like four good throws a game and he's going to win a game. Okay, it's Tom Brady, right?

He only needs four. But Mack Jones played really well. Like, legitimately was making throws. And you could tell that they weren't going to win the game just because he's not ready yet. He's just not fully there. But, dude, he was making throws. He was standing toe to toe with Tom. It was a great game.

And also, I just want to say one other thing. NBC milked this shit. out of this game. Did you watch the game last time? They played, they played Adele, hello from the other side. They had Drew Rees on the on the field as Tom Brady breaks Drew's record. Yeah. The NFL was just doing it right. They put out all the stops right here. They had the football night in America. Chris Collinsworth was in a bag last night. It was just in a ridiculous one-of-one bag that Chris Collinsworth is in. The NFL did it right. And so with that being said, the Oakland Raiders, the Oakland, Las Vegas Raiders, the Oakland, Las Vegas, Los Angeles Raiders.

The autumn wind is a Raider, baby. Monday night football in Los Angeles against the Chargers. Can't wait. Hey, they're going for 4-0, and I want you to know, hey, Raja, have I watched any second of the Raiders season? You bet I haven't. Have I only watched 15 minutes of football all year? Yes, I have. Oh, man. Look at this.

Does it even matter? No, it does not. Because the Raiders are going to the fucking playoffs, okay? Because Derek Carr is here, all right? We're ready to go. We're going four and O. I don't know how much I'm going to watch, but I have my Raiders hat on right now.

I sure do. We're ready to go, Raja. All right. Autumn win is a Raider. We're going for four and O tonight, baby. Justin Herber and Company have something to say about that, bro. I think that the training wheels fall off for the, for the for the for the las Vegas Raiders tonight although I like the Raiders I'm a

rater fan I like what they're doing you know that I'm also a bigger Derek car fan than you sir um you are you are I do I do think Justin Herbert and then boys get him tonight though but I wouldn't be mad I'm good with it I like it's gonna be a a Raiders home game you realize that right last night's game last night's game yes that's gonna be crazy it's gonna be a Raiders home game last night's game was the worst best game I may have ever seen like it was terrible it was raining like cats couldn't catch the ball there were a lot of airing throws there wasn't a lot of scoring

and I couldn't stop watching it like I was Roger you know what it was it was fucking football it was football and fall that's what it was it was fun did you see at the end shut this shit down bro you did you see at the end no no no no no no no no no no no no no did you see at the end

when fucking when they're like all both players are like the players are doing the handshakes at the end and you see if you see fucking Bill Belichick come out of nowhere just hug them But you can tell Bill was sad because he's like, I don't want, I can't fucking do this. But I love you, man.

And like walks on. Hey, Bill was in his bag last night too, though. Shout out to Bill. Bill was in his bag. Bill and his son doing the craziness over there with his, with his mouth, like with the mullet. They were in their bag. The defensive calls, they were okay.

This is an NFL podcast, but it just became an NFL podcast. We'll just leave it with that, man. We'll see you guys next week. That's another edition of the Real Ons Pod. Check us out on Monday. might be going back to old schedule soon. Maybe, I don't know. I don't know.

Maybe you guys need to like lock in and see. But we will, as of right now, we will see you guys next Monday. In the meantime, make sure you check out everything on our ringer slate. Check out group chat. Check out the mismatch. Check out, Raja, the prestige TV podcast that I'm on talking about billions, the season finale with one big was. We're talking about billions there.

Make sure you guys check that out. Make sure you check out Black Girl Songbook with who, Roger Bell? Town legend, Danielle Smith. Make sure you check out with R2C2 with who, Roger Bell? The Leo legend, a.k.a the Creside Clown, aka Big Raiders fan, C.C. Sebatia. Yes, sir. We're getting the propaganda in here, baby. Make sure you check out 60 songs or less with Rob Parvella.

We will see you guys next week. Halla.