The Ringer NBA Show - What If Every Team Had Their Own Marcus Smart? | The Answer

Episode Date: November 5, 2021

Chris and Seerat start by discussing the reports of racism and misogyny within Robert Sarver’s Phoenix Suns organization (0:50). Then they discuss Damian Lillard after a story comes out detailing his meeting with LeBron James and Anthony Davis in the offseason (22:15). Lastly they answer the core question of the episode: What if every team had their own Marcus Smart (37:42)? Hosts: Chris Ryan and Seerat Sohi Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Watch is the latest and the greatest in pop culture from best friends Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald. Join them as they discuss TV, movies, music, and much more. Check out The Watch on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome to The Ringer MBA show. It's The Answer. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm joined, as always, by Syriott Sohey. What's up, Syriott?

What's up, Chris? I've got a lot of stuff to talk about today. A ton of energy for today because it's always a great day for me when I've got a little bit of Boston struggle, pumping through my blood. We're going to talk a little bit about Marcus Smart. The question we're trying to answer this week is what if every team had their own Marcus Smart? It's like what happens when the quiet part gets said loud in the NBA. But first we have a bunch of news we need to hit. So let's start with the Robert Sarver story, which came out on ESPN.

It was written by Baxter Holmes. By this point on you'll be hearing this on Friday. We're recording this on Thursday. I'm sure you've gotten a chance to check that out. If you're listening to an NBA podcast, Baxter Holmes documented years of alleged sexual harassment, racially insensitive comments and a generally hostile work environment in Phoenix.

It's a really interesting story. I would say that generally speaking, I'll put this delicately, the Robert Sarver has not always had the best reputation in the NBA. Generally speaking, that is due to his purse string control when it comes to players. And obviously a little bit of chaos

when it comes to sticking with coaches as Baxter documents here. The sons have run through quite a few coaches over the years. But, you know, this is a whole other story. This is a much more concerning story. There's already talk about whether or not the league is going to have to get involved here. Sarah, what did you make of this piece? It's a more concerning story, but also a very connected story

in that per strength control turns out to actually just be one mechanism of control that he uses over his employees. this was, so this story was, we knew this story was coming for a little while. Because last week, Jordan Schultz, who does, works for ESPN. I'm not really sure. I think he works for the boardroom. It's one of those things. It's hard to tell, yeah.

Well, he reported that there was going to be a big, a big son story coming out, you know, alleging years of racism and misogyny. and then the Sons made a statement which was so I was reminded we talked about this a little bit before I was reminded very much of the scene in succession when they knew that the cruises story was going to drop and they decided instead of cooperating

that they were going to try to kill the story and it turned out that in 2021 that especially if you're Robert Sarver who does not have a great reputation in the first place that is not going to help you at all. And it seems like that actually, you know, it created a little bit more anticipation for this story and his handling of it only really suggested what we already seem to know, which is that he is a control freak and that he is a bully and things that, you know, that that alone will get him what he wants. So the

reporting already, like the pre-reporting, the anticipation of it is already, it's feeling a little it's informative of the story itself. Yeah, it's a very strange media story in the first place. It's rare that you see a story. Backstores obviously working on this for quite some time get essentially scooped on Twitter. It's rare that you see... Talk to over 70 employees.

Yeah, a preemptive response to a story that hasn't been posted. You never... If you're in that zone where you're releasing preemptive statements about stories that have yet to come out about you, that's generally a bad sign. I don't think that there is...

is any situation where I would describe if you said it was like succession that I would think we were talking about a good situation. You know what I mean? Like if you're like, hey, this is like that scene in succession. I'm like, shit. We're in trouble. So yeah,

not a lot going right off the court for Phoenix right now. And I guess the question is, you know, immediately the first story that comes to mind as a comparison to this one is Donald Sterling's story from years ago when Donald Sterling was eventually forced to divest himself of the clippers and that

ushered in the Balmer era after kind of a similar situation where I think that there had been years of everybody knows but doesn't say what Donald Sterling does or is like and then finally there was some documentary evidence of exactly the worst uh the worst we actually thought about Donald Sterling was on display and Adam Silver in one of his first at first access commissioner when replaced David Stern. This was sort of Silver drops the hammer. Silver essentially you know, um,

forces out Sterling from his, from his ownership of the clippers. And immediately I think people started jumping to conclusions or started speculating that something similar could happen here. I'm not so sure about that. What do you, what do you think is kind of the upshot? What do you think are the action items to come out of Baxter's piece here? It's,

it's an interesting comparison because like, I feel like the, the Sterling story was different in the sense that, you know, there was this video evidence and there was just like this recklessness on the part of Sterling where everybody knew exactly who he was and how he behaved. And, you know, there was, you know, if it wasn't on the team, there was just like, you know, his history in housing, you know, just discrimination. And it was just out there in the open, right? Like, this strikes me more as this story where it kind of reminds me almost of like Weinstein, where there's, It's like, you know, you have a bunch of NDAs and you have like this cultural trickle down and you have like, you know, just a lot of people not being held accountable and protecting each other or just being, you know, ruled by fear more than anything else. It was, it's more hush, hush.

It's more, you know, the types of situations that I guess like we kind of become used to reading about. And, you know, it's kind of, you know, put words to sort of like a silent, not silent, but, you know, you know, a little bit more of a subtle type of racism and misogyny. So I think that almost because of that, like because we now know how these things tend to go, the question isn't necessarily, is this enough? But like, if this got into the story, what didn't? Right. Like, I think that's just kind of, it's a change in how people have started to view these types of stories,

especially with the way that this one, this one went. Like it's in the story where like, you know, the sons where Sarver hired lawyers and, you know, kind of went back and forth. And, you know, that type of thing, you know, typically it'll take a couple of things out. Sarver took this story very seriously. You can tell by his engagement throughout the piece

through his representatives or however they decided to communicate Sarver's feelings on certain points of the story where he, there, are certain things that he blow by blow goes through and is like, no, that's not what happened. This is literally what happened. I think, you know, many people have been making the Michael Scott comparison here. It's like there's several times in the story where in his comments, he's like, I never have ever said something like that. In the case of what they're talking about, this is why I said that. And it's like, dude, that means you said it. You know what I mean?

That means you did say what you're saying you didn't say. Yeah. You know, I think that will happen probably now is Monty Williams and Chris Paul and Devin Booker and DeAndre Aiton and Mikel Bridges and everybody associated with the sons. James Jones is quoted in the piece giving a relatively I think sturdy defense of Sarver or at least saying that he's never experienced anything like that. They're going to get asked about this a lot.

Now I don't know from my perspective like I don't know what the attention span is for the national sort of discourse anymore about being outraged at something like this. Like, I don't know, but is this going to be something that we're going to get into Thanksgiving and nobody's going to remember that this story came out? Or is this going to be something that winds up being investigated by the league? And there's actually some sort of response.

Well, it sounds like there's going to be an investigation for sure. I think there's two things that are probably likely to happen. The first just being that, like, now that this story is out there, I mean, Robert Sarver has fired a lot. of people. And I think we just might, we're already starting to see the beginning of, you know, more people just being open about telling stories about him. And I think just more attention being brought to them.

Like, so, like, there's two things that I want to bring up. One of them is this story that Henry Abbott wrote during the playoffs when I think, I think the sons were in the Western Conference finals when the story came. out. But basically, there was a, there was a roast for a former minority owner of the Sons who had passed away during COVID. So a couple months later in April. So, you know, like pretty close to playoffs, they had a roast for him. And, and Sarver was attending. And like, everybody should read the story. But the roast is pretty much just like a very open. admission of what the Sun's culture was and is. You know, he talks about, well, like, he just,

he opens it. Like, I'll just, I'll just say what he says. Like, he takes a mic and, like, he starts heckling a guy who's, who's on the phone. And he's like, you merging on an SPAC or are you lining up a hooker over there? What are you doing? It's a goddamn memorial service. Christ. Ha, ha, ha, ha. I'm going to guess his receptionist has small tits. And that's just off the cuff. That's not even any. of his material. Everybody read that story. Exactly. That's his crowd work.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So go check that out. There's some, he's just essentially making jokes about like, like the biggest one is probably just, you know, the minority owner's sons or,

or, we're chasing around the son's cheerleaders and trying to fuck them, essentially. Those are team employees, by the way. So yeah, this is just, I think this is probably just the beginning. Yeah. Yeah.

Earl Watson is quoted extensively throughout the story and a lot of the examples of Sarver's bad behavior, at least in the first half of the piece. The first half of the piece details Sarver's racial insensitivity, let's say. The second half of the piece goes into more of a culture of sexual harassment that exists inside of the franchise. The first half of the piece is extensively about Watson, you know, and it's pretty obvious that Watson is participatory in the story. Like you said, there are a lot of people

who used to work for Phoenix and whether or not Steve Kerr comes up at the end of the piece, he was obviously a GM in Phoenix for some time. He basically says that he is never witnessed any of this kind of stuff going on there and that the allegations are disturbing. This is pretty much with the same thing

that James Jones says. I don't know. They're going to, you know, I remember when the Clippers thing happened, it felt like, stories like that didn't happen that often. And that was also a really early example of the extremely online nature of NBA fandom and NBA media so that you basically will, like, drill a story until you strike oil. Like, I remember working at Grantland at that time and just having only recently moved to L.A. and just sitting, like waiting every second, every minute

for something new to come out for some other drip to start until, you know, and then basically like wondering whether or not the clippers were going to take the court or not. You know, that was a major element was whether or not there was going to essentially be a boycott, you know, and whether Doc and the players were not going to play. We're obviously not necessarily at that place here. And we're less than 10 games into a regular season.

I don't know that we're talking about something like that. But these pressures, can get dialed up pretty fast. Yeah, I have no idea what to expect from the players here. We haven't heard from them. Do the Suns play today? The Suns play the Rockets tonight on Thursday night, so this podcast will be going up Friday. I would have to imagine that it's going to be relatively business as usual for now. Yeah, I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. It's definitely, it's...

So the people working for the Suns right now, First of all, like, let's start this off with like, just shout out Earl Watson, right? Like, out of, first of all, also, like, this is, Earl Watson is a great example of what happens when you come forward. First of all, there's all this incentive not to because, like, you see how, you know, people previously have been treated, right? So to, you know, come out, come out against that and then get fired, like, we don't hear anything good about Earl Watson as a coach. I think like when this type of thing happens, like this is very typical, right? Like the vultures start circling and you start to hear things about competency that really have nothing to do with like the thing that's actually happening. But it's just like it's just a power play by like, you know, somebody like Sarver who will, you know, uses relationships in the media or, you know, anybody else in the organization who, you know, wants to do something like that.

Like that's just a culture that's been created. That's incredibly common all the time. So I think like let's keep that in mind if we hear anything down the line about a guy like Coralus Williamson or like anybody who ever comes forward in any of these situations. And the sun's like, so the sons tried to defend their, you know, the allegations of racism against a team by saying that they have hired, you know, more more black coaches. and executives and like, you know, your average NBA NBA team and that, you know, just that their staff is, is, uh, is more diverse. Um, and I think that, like, that was really interesting and it kind of goes back to, to the Michael Scott thing because like, I mean, this is like, I don't know, like, this is like a guy that's like Michael Scott times Logan Roy in terms

of like Michael Scott attitude with like Logan Roy power. Um, and. It's a dangerous combination. It really is. It really is because, like, he really doesn't seem to think that he's a bad guy. And that's something that's like, I mean, you know, like, it's just billionaires, people who surround themselves with power. Like, we've talked about all of these things before. But it's really, it's really fascinating because I think it's created this dynamic where, like, the reason. So when they were hiring Lindsay Hunt, Hunter, who's a black coach. Robert Sarver said,

these N-words need an N-word, which is just like an incredibly, like, paternalistic form of racism where he is just like, I don't even know what to call it. Like, he wants to, wants to hire black coaches because, like, they think they'll connect with black players.

And, like, there is, I mean, there's just, like, there's a non-paternalistic take there. But, like, it is just not, It is not what Sarver is saying. And, like, you can see it, too, with, you know, there was, like, the detail in the story about how he tried to connect, like, the female son's employees with, like, the female employees at his bank because he just thought, like, that those employees, like, were more aggressive and, like, could get, like,

the women and the sons to, like, you know, just, like, rub some dirt on it or whatever. That's what it kind of seemed like he was trying to do. Like, but, you know, so he has, like, all the, like, he's, like, this guy. who thinks he has like all these ideas right so he you know hire he hires black coaches but like he also does this thing that like people in power who want to control other people like it's just like a classic maneuver of going and getting people into their orbit who are also vulnerable so that they can control them even more um and that just seems like what his MO has been this whole time because like if you're if you're a black coach in the NBA like you already know that

you are going to have less opportunities. And that's every GM, right? And every GM, when they get hired, what they do is essentially, like, they are trying to figure out psychologically how they are supposed to deal with their ownership. Like, that is, like, a huge part of the information that they are trying to get.

So if you're James Jones, you know exactly what happened to Earl Watson. And you know that, like, Sarver, like, this just isn't a guy. who bluffs. And like this isn't to absolve anything that comes later in terms of like, you know, if like these guys are blasé about it, like, you know, like they have a championship that they're trying to win. Like I'm, you know, I believe everybody makes their own decisions. Like you can, if you choose to, you know, go with like, you know, your own motives over the greater good, like,

I'm not saying that that's a good thing. It's just like putting it in the perspective of, like, this is a boss who knows how to create fear in his employees. Yeah. It'll be really interesting to see what the secondary reporting is. It'll be interesting to see if this big story kicks loose some other stories. You know, in this piece itself, I believe James Jones is not exactly complementary to the environment that Earl Watson created. I mean, there's a lot of competing narratives going on within the piece itself. So sorting out the sort of second, third day reactions to the piece will be interesting. I think it's pretty damning overall. You know, the sons have gotten off to

like a fine but kind of normal start I think you know we've done several like you know the group chat guys did the sort of panic watch I think Bill had like a nervous breakdown about the Celtics the other night it's we're like 10 games in

like I just don't think we have like a sample size to I don't when I watch the Sixers they don't look like the second best offense in the NBA yet that's what they're ranked like I think that we will eventually get to about 20 games and we'll know what we know about teams on the court. There are certain teams that are in trouble.

There are certain teams that are doing well. This is bigger than that because this kind of threatens to overshadow not only what's going on on the court this year, but essentially the feel-good story of last season outside of Janus. You know, this idea that Chris Paul finally gets himself to a finals, that this son's team that had been essentially an institutional disarray found the right to leaders in James Jones and Monty Williams and Paul by extent. that Sarver had somehow managed not to step on his own feet and screw this all up.

And then since this new season has started, we've basically seen through the DeAndre Aten Contract Situation and now this, like a lot of landmines out there for Phoenix. So we'll see how it develops. I guess there's not really much more to say about it until we know anything more. Yeah. Yeah. I think like the only thing I'd add is just like, I think the NBA is just they need to be better about knowing when these types of things happen.

You know, like there's been a lot of talk about, you know, cleaning, you know, just cleaning up the environment in sports in general. And I think like the NBA definitely gets a pass because it is one of the more progressive sports leagues. But like broadly, there aren't a lot of protections for employees and everybody wants to work in the NBA. It's just like any other sport. There's a lot of power dynamics going on. And there's just a lot of ignorance. And, you know, I would say if there is an employee complaining to HR, which, by the way, not, you know, not a favorite practice in the Sun's organization, which is another thing I think that people understand now, like, why people don't go to HR. Like, this is very much a story of the times. Maybe, you know, maybe every time an employee does go to HR, especially for a serious infraction, somebody in the NBA should get pinged.

just as simple as that. You know, like, we can start there and, like, just, just keep it moving from there. Like, let's get it, like, let's just take this a little bit more seriously because it just not. Absolutely. I mean, I, it's another test. It's, it's another stress test for the Silver administration. You know, like, I think like you said, like, we almost reflexively say

the NBA is more progressive than most leagues or the NBA is this and the NBA is that because I think that as people who cover and follow the league so closely, maybe that's sometimes projection. It's like I follow the good sport, you know? And I think that's to some extent true. And I think to some extent, Adam Silver works for the NBA owners. You know, like, let's be really clear about this.

This is like this. He's not, he's not an advice columnist. He's not a, he's not the ethicist. He is a business person who is trying to make the most, like basically grind the most value out of his product for his bosses as possible. So we'll see where the NBA goes from here. another news story that I wanted to hit before we get into our own version of panic meter, I guess,

is this Damien Lillard story that came out on Wednesday and kind of got swallowed up by Aaron Rogers News and then on Thursday got swallowed up by Robert Sarverd News. It's a story on Yahoo by Chris Haynes who's obviously been kind of like, has like a kind of Boswell-Johnson relationship with Lillard is like the Lillard guy and the NBA media.

And Haynes was one of the, you know, he was, one of the first people with the Damien Lillard is going to ask for a trade to get out of Portland. I think that was prior to the Olympics. Nothing happened before the Olympics. He went to the Olympics. There was all this stuff about Chauncey and about Lillard's awareness of the allegations towards Chauncey. And then everything seemed to get smoothed out.

Lillard decides that he's going to stay with Portland. Portland gets off to a rocky enough start. Lillard specifically gets off to a particularly rocky start this season. And this story comes out yesterday, which is essentially... about Damien Lillard's state of mind broadly, but it's specifically about a little trip he took to Los Angeles a few months ago, where he wound up having lunch with LeBron James and Anthony Davis

at LeBron's house in Brentwood. And it's pretty explicit about the fact that, like, LeBron James pitched Dame on, like, orchestrating a move to the Lakers. And it's kind of like a fascinating thing to just be like, yeah, I'm just going to talk about this. Like, I don't know if he bounced this off of LeBron. There's been all sorts of chatter out there about the bulls getting dinged for the Lanzo tart, like, tampering, like that the NBA is going to try and, like, clamp down on the tampering. You don't need to have, like, a forensic evidence team come in to check out.

Like, it's just Damien Liller told Chris Haynes, like, yeah, I went over to LeBron's house and AD was there. And we talked about it. Now, Damien said it was not a pitch. It was an information gathering session and that they weren't telling him. him anything he didn't already know. There's so many details in this piece that I adore, including Damien Lillard taking an Uber to get to LeBron's house. I wondered if he has special Uber or if it's like, did like a guy in a Camry pick

Damian Lillard up to take him to LeBron's. And then second of all is just the fact that LeBron has an elevator and his Brent went home. LA houses are not that big. They're not that tall generally. But I love that part. What did you make of this story? I think, first of all, it's,

the fact that so much of it is just couched and like this wasn't really an official meeting. Like Dame was going to be in L.A. He wasn't going to L.A. to like hang out with LeBron and AT. He just, you know, he happened to have some business in L.A. He was in space jam. You know, he was going to go to a, yeah. Sure, sure. I think he was shooting a music video.

And, you know, LeBron, knowing that like Dame was in town, like, probably via vis-a-vis, like, you know, the Space Jam Information Network, was like, hey, I heard your in sound. Let's have lunch. Now, this is the part where he kind of incriminates himself. He says, let's have lunch to talk shop. Yeah, right. I mean, they could be talking about the extended space jam, CU, you know,

like what further stories could we tell with this IP? They could be talking about the shop. Yeah, that's true. The HBO show. is an HBO show. And, you know, maybe it's about Dame coming on as a guest. Maybe this is what is, like, what it was actually all about. They're talking about, like, you know, so if you come on the show, like, you know how

the show works. You've seen the show. Like, you'd be sitting on one of the chairs. Then Davis would be on the other chair. And then, like, we would just talk. Like, maybe that's what this was actually all about. Yeah. Maybe.

No. No. Yeah, it's just hilarious, honestly. Like, just, like, all of it's couched and it's, like, this stuff that seems to make it okay. Like, oh, we weren't planning. on meeting, but we just happened to me. And like, you know, we just talk.

We just talk shop. Like, you know. Yeah. You can't govern what people do in their personal lives. But it is tampering. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's just like they're just saying it. Yeah.

And it's very easy for me. I mean, there is in the story itself, I think Haynes goes on to point out that there is just no way Neil Lowe would have traded Damien Liller to the Lakers. But it's pretty easy to see a world in which some version. of the package that the Lakers sent to Washington for Russell Westbrook is the basis for a package that they sent to Portland for Damien Lillard. Now, I don't know whether that is more attractive to Neil Olshey than Ben Simmons is, you know, or if there's anything else out there that might have been more compelling to

Olshay if Lillard actually did that. But it's pretty, it's pretty striking that like they talk openly about dreaming of playing with one another and knowing what basically that they would be like odds on title winners if they teamed up. But Dame goes then on to talk about like how, especially his father, you know, didn't want him to leave, that, you know, like that he felt like staying in Portland was being true to himself and that even if Portland never wins,

that that would be, that's how he wants his career to go. He actually goes on to say something pretty interesting, which is, quote, you look at some of the dudes around the league that were at the top of their game and they made one move and now they're on this team. Next year they're on another team and now they're somewhere completely different. As much as I want to win, I want to do it my way.

That's pretty obviously about like a Westbrook. Now Westbrook did wind up in probably the best possible situation for him back in L.A. playing with LeBron and AD. But that is essentially what happened when Westbrook like, you know, probably with Sam Presti's blessing, if not

encouragement, left Oklahoma, goes to Houston. Next year he's on Washington, which is much like a worse situation probably than he thought he was getting into in Houston. And then a year after Washington is out of there and is now on L.A. So maybe he winds up in the right place, but spends the second half of his prime kind of wandering around the NBA, try to figure out a spot for himself. And you have to think, you know, what happens if he just stays in Oklahoma?

You know, does he have another MVP? Like, who knows, you know? Yeah, yeah. It's, I feel like this is actually kind of a thing that happens with a lot of stars at, like, first move off the front. that, you know, was their franchise, like with Wade, as soon as he left the heat and, like, he went from the Bulls to the Cavs. With Mello, like, he's kind of been on a ton of teams. And now it's happening with Russ.

This also, like, a little bit reminded me of the Nets, too, where, like, things just, I mean, things just haven't gone that way. But it's, like, a really, it's, he has a lot of, I think, I think he tries to take a lot of different perspectives into, you know, into this decision, because, like, he also talks about Janice as well. Like, he talks about how he was watching Janice won the championship. And he always wondered, like,

if I, if I actually won, like, you know, would I feel this level of joy, right? Like, this is something that he's always thought about. Yeah. And then, like, watching Janus, just seeing how,

like, Janus being around, like, everybody that, you know, like, these guys, like, you know, grew up together, essentially. Um, he saw that joy and he, like, kind of affirmed that, like,

you know, being in Portland, doing this here is, like, what he's meant to do. And he also is like, it's a very self-aware point to make that like, you know, things in, when you move franchises, like, things don't work out for you the way they used to a lot of times because, like, the franchises that you play for really value you. And, like, they also build their culture around you. And then that just changes. Like, I think that happened with Russ. Like, he didn't fit in elsewhere because, like, in Oklahoma, like, Oklahoma was Russell Westbrook. Like, they ran on his time, right? And he just never got that elsewhere. Same with Wade, right? Like, he kind of had to go back to Miami.

So, yeah, it's a really interesting perspective. Do you think there's a sort of thread running through this piece? And I think it runs through a lot of Dame's public statements about the decision-making behind staying or leaving Portland, staying in Portland or leaving Portland, which is essentially that he knows as a small market player, like he's not going to get as much exposure or attention as others. Is it, maybe I just have, like, NBA. but I feel like we think and talk about Damian Lillard like a lot. Now, maybe Portland's not on national TV as much as some other teams, but I don't feel like Damian Lillard is like the best kept secret in the NBA. I mean, it's West Coast basketball, so like the East Coast is asleep.

That's just the way it goes sometimes. So dame time happens when a lot of people have kind of turned off the TV. But man, I feel like dame is a pretty big deal. Yeah, I would, I mean, I don't, you know, I'd be curious about the exact numbers. But yeah, like, people, people know Damien Lillard. Like, I think if you're, he's not a household name, but I think if you're a sports fan even generally, like, you definitely know Damien Lillard. And he's got a shoe. So, like, you know, I think kids who play basketball know him, you know, because he's in a lot of highlights.

Like, just the sheer existence of Dame time, it kind of goes against the idea that, like, he needs a big market to play in. Um, that said, if you took Dame and like what he's already been able to do, um, to a bigger market, um, you know, I, I think his brand would probably explode. So you think Damian Lillard on the Lakers, like what, what does that eat? Here's the thing though. Yeah. But here's the thing. On the off chance that, let's say the Lakers have like, I mean, little Brown's going to miss a week now with an abdominal strain. Anthony Davis is having a rough shooting season so far. Their depth, with the exception of Mello, maybe hasn't, like, clicked the way they think they were hoping

for it to. Let's just say in some weird world, I think the Lakers probably are a bad example, but let's just say, like, Damien Liller finds himself not loving L.A. for whatever reason. That's kind of what he's alluding to is this idea that the grass is not always greener. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I think that's a pretty wise perspective to take. I also wonder if he almost, like, is underrating his own cultural impact, too, because, like, Dame seems like the type of guy where, you know, if the ship was starting to, you know, teeter a little bit, like, you'd want him, you know, you'd want him steering. You know, he's just like, even like the sheer fact of this piece is really interesting to me because I think in his

position, like a lot of superstars, like, I think Bradley Beale, for example, it's been pretty, like, forward about like, hey, I'm here. Like, I want to try this out, right? But I think the fact that Dame has really gone out of his way, like, the things that he's saying about, like, his beliefs and, like, really, you know, like making it clear that he is in Portland to stay that he's like, you know, he knows that there's stormy waters ahead and he's down to just like, you know, kind of ride it out and see, and see where it goes. So he's basically saying, like, we're going to lose some games. Shut up about this. Like, I've given you my answer. And, like, he's trying to bring the organization stability. Because, like, ultimately, he's still, like,

that's where his goals are. Like, he's committed to the organization. And this is very much just, like, the piece that would come out about a guy, like, you know, stamping, that in. And like, it's interesting because I think other guys might take a different tactic of saying, well, I'm going to stay, but like if I don't put this pressure on you, then I don't really know that I can trust you to, you know, build a championship team. And based on how he's still putting pressure on him. I mean, I don't think, I don't think cause playing a Lakers. That's fair. Maybe this is his version of pressure. Like, I'm here, but I did this. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, why tell that story? What purpose does that story serve other than to be like, I could have done this.

So before you start getting on my ass about shooting 23% from 3 or whatever you're shooting or, you know, us being 3 and 6 or whatever, just know that I could have like really put my foot down and tried to do this. Now, I don't think, I think Neil Olshay would probably be like Damien Lillard's exit for a package of Kyle Kuzma, Montrez-Harrel and KCP is essentially me signing my own retirement papers. So I don't think he would be like, I don't think he would do that. I think he would just turn around and just be like, dames going to Philly or dames go to New York. I don't want to play dame five times this year. Yeah, I think that deal is a much more reflection of Russell's value and, like, how much money he makes. Absolutely.

But I do think that in his own subtle way, Lillard doing this piece is his own way of being like, don't get too, too comfortable yet. Yeah. And now I thought there was a lot of the interesting points that he made. He's a really astute follower of the game, obviously. and he said that he doesn't think that they're as far away from Phoenix as maybe other people do. And the truth of the matter is, is that there are teams that are going to be dominant like the Lakers or the Nets or the Bucks or, you know, in some case, in the way it's looking now this season, heat. And then there are some teams that need some luck, you know, and the Sons were a team that needed some luck.

And they did get that with the Lakers injury problems. And I thought the Sons were awesome, but they still got it. And the Bucks got some luck too. The Bucks got some luck from Harden being on one. leg and no Kyrie Irving in that net series. So the NBA, every season is full of those kinds of little sliding doors moments. And Dame was the beneficiary of that when the Blazers went to the Western Conference finals.

And so we'll see what happens with them going forward. I think it's too early to really discuss their on-court product, although I think, aside from Anthony Simons, like, I'm not sure, like, what's sort of different about them this year under Billups, under Stott. Have you spent much time watching them? A little bit. Honestly, not a lot, though. So I don't want to speak to the X's and O's of it too much. But looking at, like, just, and, you know, honestly, the reason I don't really watch the Blazers is a lot is because we know exactly what they are. They've been the exact same team for years. And, like, I just kind of feel like I get it at this point. Like, every once in a while, they add a new wing. Like, they change wings. They bring in Roco or they, like, you know, they trade for Norman Powell. But, like, essentially, like, this is a team that, that is just, has never really had, like, you know,

the guy in the middle that they need. Has always had some variation of that, that hasn't quite worked out. And Dame and CJ, who ultimately, like, just end up, you know, not having enough firepower and being too small in the playoffs.

Like, it's just kind of, this is the team, and it has always been that way. And I don't see that really changing. Like, I don't really see these Sons as an app comparison. Like,

obviously the Sons had to get lucky, but, like, like, the Sons also had, like, the internal development of DeAndre Aiton and Devin Bucer. I mean, Dale Breschel goes through the Sun Drosser and he's like,

Cam Johnson's nice, Mikkel Burgess is one of my favorite wings in the league. Devin Booker is God. Aiton turned into one of the best centers in the league and CP3 is CP3. So like he, in his own assessment of the Blazers is like, CJ is an all-star level player, which I suppose is accurate if somewhat damning praise.

NERC, he claims is one of the best centers in the league. I do not agree with that. And then there's, that's it. That's it. There's nobody else. So, I don't know.

Dennis Smith Jr. is only 23. So there's that. I don't know, man. I wanted to get into this Markis Smart stuff. But obviously, it's been talked about a lot this week. Our producer, Isaiah, who's recording his last episode of the answer this week, was probably hoping not to hear another Marcus Smart podcast. We're going to do it a little bit differently.

It's very rare that you get the players only. First of all, I cannot remember a single time in the first 10 games of a season. that you get the players saying the quiet part loud to the press after a loss, and then you get the players-only meeting, which is just absolutely incredible shit first 10 games of the season. I wonder what the earliest ever documented players-only meeting is. Let's just, I mean, that's big Jimmy Butler energy right there. I don't know.

I don't know. I feel like there's, what about the Kings? Like, what about the George Carl Kings year? Because I feel like things fell apart. Didn't things fall apart within like the first 10 games? I feel like a shouting match. George Carl teams often had players-only meetings. So in case you've been living under Iraq this week,

Marcus Smart came out after a Celtics loss. I believe it was the one to the Bulls where they blew something like a 20-something point lead, got outscored 33-7 or something in the final frame. And, you know, if you go back and watch that game, as other people have mentioned, it's not really the Celtics' offense is the problem. Like, they were getting okay looks. It's just that they just basically didn't play defense against a very hot Bulls team. Smart comes out,

essentially says the problem here is that Jalen and Jason don't pass, that other team scheme against Jalen and Jason do the Belichick where you take away what the other team wants to do and that they have yet to come up tactically with a solution when plan A and plan B gets taken away from them, what to do when Jason and Jalen are being schemed up against. And that it's somewhat throwing blame on the coaching staff, the new coaching staff and somewhat throwing blame on Brown and Tatum and sort of disparaging

their quality as playmakers. This is incredibly rich coming from Marcus Smart, who is not what I would call the best decision maker I've ever seen on a basketball floor. But I did think it was really interesting because the reaction that this story got, the reaction that his comments got was like, you're not supposed to say that out loud. You know, whether or not you think it, whether or not it's something that gets talked about in the locker room, whether it's not something that's talked about off the record. It's not the thing that you're supposed to be like, I have some comments I'd like to make

after this devastating loss. And it got me thinking, Sir, what would happen if Marcus Smart was on other teams? What are some of the quiet parts that could get set out loud on some other teams? So we divided up a couple of teams here to take. Some of these are in jest. Some of these, I imagine, will be pretty sincere.

Why don't you start us off? What team do you want to do first? What if Marcus Smart was on who? You know, I think for a lot of these teams, there is already a version of Marcus Smart on some of them. Really? Maybe. Yeah, I think so. Because I don't think that what Marcus Smart said was that loud.

I think it was more a product of, it was on national TV. It was after like a devastating fourth quarter, like honestly a truly embarrassing fourth quarter. But the things that he said were A, I mean, you mean, first of all, he maybe. shouldn't be the one saying them because like he's not reliable. Like he's a very inconsistent player and that probably makes it harder for Jason and and Jalen to to be like the playmakers that they need to be. But at the same time, he's right. Like those guys have a lot of tunnel vision. And I think that that's something that they probably know. Like it feels like it's something that they try to work on but like probably don't try hard enough to work on. Yeah, these things,

I don't know, man. I feel like these things kind of get said in the NBA. Like, pretty often. Give me an example. Let's start with your team. I mean, it did, like, let's start with your guys, right? So, give me another example. So Joelle Embed is truly, like, one of the most terminally honest people in the NBA. He has pretty much, like, he's never been, like, you know, the guy who, like, coaches

the truth in anything. We've kind of seen that with like the whirlwind of different things that he's said through the Ben Simmons saga from like, you know, so this is like the real shit, right? Like this might be the time to be a little bit less honest, I guess. But he was pretty much just like, yeah, I think we can still win a championship with him and like I'd love to see him back to like that man doesn't care about anything. I don't care about that man. And it's also like just manifested itself in like.

little moments. I remember writing a column about them on Christmas when Jimmy Butler was on the team and, like, Joel was just, like, highly honest about the whole situation and just, like, they weren't jelling and they weren't playing the right way. They weren't playing selfishly and everything. And it just didn't really become a big deal. I feel like that happens a lot in the NBA. Yeah. It should happen more often. It makes it a lot more interesting. We don't pay enough attention to what players say, like, just as like a general thing. Well, you know what the thing is, is that I think that with the Marcus Smart stuff, it was really more like, I imagine that he does not keep his opinions to himself in the locker room. But, you know, Jalen Brown said after the

fact, I think before the Orlando game, which they wound up stomping out of Orlando, he was just like, was it the most helpful way to express those feelings? Probably not. I mean, Jalen makes points. Yeah. I would say that like, you know, the Celtics have not gotten enough to a good start. And the Celtics also are maybe dealing with the reality of the fact that the core that they thought was just one bounce of the ball away or one player away or bringing Al Horford back away is maybe farther away than that. And as a Sixers fan, I've had to deal with the same reality. You know what I mean? Like I've had to deal with the same idea of like, oh, I thought it was Breck Brown or I thought it was this or I thought it was that. And it's like, well, maybe it is just like you get to the second round and Joel Embed runs out of gas and Benson doesn't shoot and that's who you are.

you know, and you have to deal with the fact that you made it three quarters of the way up the mountain and not all the way. I don't know if that's going to be the case for the Celtics. I think sometimes like that this is the best young duo in basketball, you just start repeating it. Like it's like a cult frit, like it's a cult thing. Like, okay, I guess so. But like, are they, are they the best young duo in basketball? Or are they two of the best young players in basketball who happened to play with one another? Yeah, and who happened to play the exact same way. Chris, do you want to hear the Sixers one? Yeah.

So this is, what if Marcus Smart was on the Sixers? What would he say? And this is just like Chris, like just look directly into my eyes right now. You can't hurt me. It's okay. Yeah? Okay. I'm beyond being hurt. Yeah.

The girls you want don't want you back. They just don't. We already talked about Dame. The Wizards are off to a great start. Bradley Beale is staying on this team. You have now been relegated to, Why is it you? You mean me?

You know, like, well, I'm framing all of these. I framed all of these as like I'm talking directly to the 76 or the 76ers or like the other team. So I'm sorry. This isn't meant to be personal. I can, you know, I can use a different. You know, they. No, no. I just wanted to make sure this was the royal.

No. No. This is my kick. So, yeah, you know, your best shot now is, is CJ McCollum with like all of all of what you can, what you can offer. And, you know, it's starting to look. little bit more like, you know, even the wolves thing might be a little bit off the table at this point too. Like, they're off to a great start. The well is starting to dry up. And, and your guy, Ben Simmons, he just doesn't really seem that interested in playing basketball for you. And I don't think it

really helped that much that you leaked, that he didn't want to see your mental health professionals. Yeah. Yeah. I can't imagine why he wouldn't want to see the team's mental health professionals. I don't know. I don't know. What do you think, Chris? I'll be interested to see which other ones you do because this one seemed like you had a lot of personal investment and emotional commitment to. But yeah, like I think that all those are accurate. And now that you've said it, 80% of what you said has been said already. 80% of what you said is either whether it's been said by Doc, whether it's been said by Embedde, whether it's been said by Simmons's camp through the press, that's all kind of out there.

The part about the girls you want don't want you back is it's tough. It's tough to hear. You know what I mean? I'm sorry. I don't necessarily ever, you know, I don't necessarily think that the dame thing was ever close. You know what I mean? I think that that was more like summertime. We're just trying to figure some stuff out. Who are two teams that might want to like make a big trade? I don't necessarily think it was that as close as it was made out to be. But yeah, everything else you said is dead on. Can I go next?

Yeah. Okay. This one's for the Knicks. This is if Marcus Smart was on the Knicks. We've peaked too early. Have you seen the side talk guys? How do you top the Celtics game? What happens if we lose five in a row? What happens if, God forbid, we win the East?

It's going to be escape from New York. The Bing Bang guy is going to look like he's in the Warriors. Is it possible? I mean, I let me tell you something. As an East Coast guy, like, I'm conditioned to not like New York teams and everything. I've lived in New York for more than 10 years. I was there for Linsanity. I have so many Knicks fans in my life.

I really do have like an affection for that franchise. But I really think that you guys need to just chill hell out for a second. It's 82 games. What are you going to do when Randall tears a hamstring or whatever? And it gets a little hard. It gets a little difficult. Are you going to still be dressing up in Spider-Man costumes and drinking Hennessy? If you lose by seven to the to the Pacers on a Wednesday in February, chill out.

Okay, it's not March Madness, wait until the spring, then bring out all the costumes, then do all the Fortnite dances, then say Bing Bong, but you guys got to relax. You're going to blow a gasket. That's Marcus Smart on the Knicks. Yeah, I mean, this, you know what, like this, this might be actually getting into dangerous territory. Like, the dopamine rush for the fans has just been escalating since pretty much last year. And like, yeah, it might be a little bit too much, a little bit too much Halloween candy. A little bit too much Halloween candy for November. the way that they're pacing right now, like they beat the Bulls win, they beat the Sixers, you know, I'm waiting for like a Lakers game or a Nets game and they win,

they win a tight game. I fully expect Spike Lee, Ben Stiller, Eric Adams, fuck de Blasio coming back out. You know what I mean? Like I expect the Rushmore of New York out there. I expect all the club kids.

I expect Washington Square Park to show up outside the garden. it's going to be pandemonium. Yeah. You know what this is? And then they're going to have to play in a day at like the next day. Like what happens?

You know what this is? This is actually, this is a lot like the, the Derek Rose MVP season when Tom Thibodeau took over the Bulls. First of all, like the Tom Thibito energy is kind of everywhere. Like everyone has kind of,

this is peak Tom Thibito coaching where like the guy's been playing defense for a year now. Like they understand the system. They're really motivated to play together. Like they think that they, can do a lot of a lot of good things together. And like they're really bought in and they're at the peak of their powers.

And like tips is really good at, you know, like as much as like he's a defensive coach, like he's really good at instilling confidence and young players on offense. It's total siege mentality. It's us against the world. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

Like it's it's kind of, I mean, it's beautiful to watch. So it's, it's perfect like, you know, brand wise for for New York. And it's just like,

it's really, I mean, this is the kind of the narrative. Like that's delicious. I remember in Chicago, everyone was like, yeah, this is like our hard hat team. This is a team that represents Chicago. Like, they were really, really into it. And like they had, I mean, it was Miami on the other end of it, like, evil super team.

None of the players chose to play for Chicago. And they won a lot of regular season games against Miami. Yeah. And then the playoffs came around. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, look, I'm just looking out for people's best interests. This comes from a place of love for my New York fans.

What's another team you want to do? What if Market Smart was on who? So the Hawks, actually. The Hawks played the Nets last night. And they're in a very similar situation to the Nix. They just, they grew up too fast. The exact same thing that we're afraid of happening to the NICS happened to the Hawks. Happened to the Hawks last year.

And maybe this is actually like, you know, like looking at the long history of like the Knicks versus Trey Young, if we start to take the long view of it knowing that this is going to kind of be like a decade, decade long rivalry, it might have actually been to the Knicks advantage that Trey Young and the Hawks like A found this like underdog mentality identity in that series. And then advanced because now they've come back and they have all these expectations. and they're four and four right now. And, you know, like, they're just, they're kind of playing like a team that thinks they're really talented and doesn't need to do anything else. Like, you know, Trey Young needs to play defense every single night. Like, everyone's kind of shooting, like, the first shot that they see.

There's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of young players, a lot of ambitions. And, like, you know, it's, maybe it'll, maybe it'll settle in, right? But, like, I think they kind of, like, they got too good too fast, and they didn't necessarily have the foundation. And now they got to put the foundation in. And that's a little bit more difficult. Like, the adrenaline rush isn't there anymore. And now they're, they've got to get real.

We haven't won shit yet. Yeah. Just FYI. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Let's take, like, you got to kind of take a step back now. And that's hard to do.

So, I mean, we'll see. This team also has a market smart. Who is it? It's, it's like everybody that isn't young. Like, you know, it's... Gallo? I don't know. Gallo is not as much on my Hawks radar, to be honest, but Bogdanovich is big on we

haven't one shit, you know? Clint Capella. Nate McMillan. Travis Schlink. They're all kind of trying to hammer in the same sort of thing. Like, look, this is going to be different. This is going to be different. And we'll see.

What are you going? I'm looking at this next one. I don't even know who on the Nets would say this. But it's what I think. So if I was on the Nets, I would say it. And I would just say that, like, we just need to accept the fact that Hardin is Fournier right now, you know? Like Hardin is a bearded Evan Fornier.

And nobody misses him as a superstar. Like, nobody is like, man, remember last year when it was so awesome watching James Hardin shoot free throws? Like, nobody misses what James Harden brought that the rule changes have ever eradicated. And so asking everybody about James Harden and when James Hardin's going to get back to being James Harden, it's like, it's okay. Nobody's, nobody's staying up at night remembering like James Harden drawing contact on a step back three from the top of the key. I mean, you're absolutely right. I don't know that if I was, now, I would fully expect if I said that to just be like, that's not a very constructive thing to say.

You know what I mean? But that's how it looks. Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, look, you're absolutely right. This is kind of, it's really funny to watch a rule change thing play out because everyone, except for the people who are affected by are so for it. Like, it is one of like the universally beloved rule changes. Like, I think it has like an incredible cue score, you know?

Like, it's probably got like a 95% rating on tomato meter. And everybody who's against it is like, Trey Young. and James Harden. And like, I don't know, maybe, maybe some of the smaller point guards in the league. But yeah, it's, I don't know. I, it's, yeah, it's pretty bad for the Nets. It's pretty bad for the Nets.

What's another one you got? We'll do one more. So my last one is more of a tribute to Nick Nurse. Okay. So Nick Nurse is the Marcus Smart of the Raptors, is what you're saying. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

He's kind of like the original Marcus Smart. He, this started happening after the, the championship season. I feel like he kind of had a different tact with a veteran team. Like he wasn't as critical of them. He was almost never really like that critical of them other than that just like, you know, played harder, be more consistent, yada, yada, yada type of thing. As soon as the first post-Kawai season started, we had, we just got like a very different

version of Nick Nurse that is like just never gone away. So the first version, the first time we ever heard it was like when they signed, they signed Stanley Johnson and Rondea Hallis Jefferson, the offseason that Kauai Leonard left. And this is like, you know, an incredible defensive team that they just aren't really, you know, jelling into that well. So he starts off saying those guys have not understood, A, how hard we play, B, our schemes, that defense is a priority for them, et cetera. We've got we've got some work to do with that crew.

I tell them there's a couple spots. Come Tuesday night, there's a couple spots. They're open if somebody wants them. And I keep telling them, show me you're going to play defense. Show me you're going to play hard. Show me you understand our coverages. This was like an incredible heel turn in like what, you know, the kind of coaching philosophy that I thought he had that has net. It's just been kind of like, man, Nick Nurse is like he's just a savage.

Rachel Brady at the global male like kind of she she put together a couple of different moments that he's had. There was a there was a time after a reported a reporter asked why Terrence Davis only got eight minutes. Nick Nurse said he's not playing very well. it was probably five too many. God. Yeah. Okay. Seacum having foul trouble.

He hasn't been really smart. He has, and he should knock it off. Asked about, you know, asked about the bench. This is all post-winning the championship, right? Yeah,

post-winning the championship. This is like the job security that comes with winning a trophy. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And it's like,

it's continued into, into this season. Nine days ago on, and Chris Bouchet, he was asked if Boucher was too up and down against the Mavericks on Saturday. Nick says, I didn't see any up. Jesus.

And you know what? By and large, it works. At least with this team, like, you know, they seem to kind of take well to it. They are younger. It seems like he has a good relationship with his players. And it's by and large fine. So it's kind of, you know,

it's kind of just about how everybody deals with these situations. Well, we'll keep our eye the Celtics and see whether or not Marcus has spurred a revolution or not. Sir, thank you so much for joining me on the answer this week. We'll be back next Friday. Thanks to Isaiah for producing us today and everybody, have a great weekend.