The Ringer NBA Show - What Is an NBA Superstar’s Olympic Responsibility?

Episode Date: October 29, 2021

This week, Seerat is joined by The Athletic’s Jovan Buha to discuss his feature on reigning MVP Nikola Jokic’s reception in his home country of Serbia after choosing not to play in the Olympics. Seerat and Jovan discuss NBA players’ evolving commitments to their home countries, the differences in expectations for international players vs. United States-born players, and the increased demands of the NBA schedule. Hosts: Seerat Sohi Producer: Bobby Wagner Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Football is back and so is the Ringer NFL show. Coming at you five days a week with wall-to-wall coverage from recapping the Sunday games, giving a player perspective, deep dives, and previewing the coming slate. Check out the Ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Soap, sub, welcome to The Answers. Sir at Zohi here. No Chris Ryan this week, but we have with us a very exciting guest. My friend and former Clipper blog colleague, a partial Clipper Blog reunion happening over here,

And current NBA writer for the for the athletic. Yoban Buha, how are you? I'm doing well. I just got back from the road. My voice is horse. So I'm back to my baseline level of NBA health during the season. It's, things are good. I'm happy to be traveling again.

I'm happy NBA basketball is back. And it's been an interesting couple of weeks. You said, you said it was five flights in 36 hours. Yeah, but might have been 48 out. I guess technically. 48, but yeah, it was LA to San Antonio to Dallas to O'KC

and then OKC to Salt Lake City to L.A. Some of my favorite NBA stops. Yes, the top five NBA cities all in one trip. So the reason I wanted to have you on today is because you wrote honestly one of the most interesting features

I've read in a while and it aligns with a lot of different things that I'm interested in. It's about Nikola Yokic and his complicated relationship with Serbia, his home country. And if anybody who hasn't read it, I would recommend, like, honestly, just pause this and go read it. It's a fascinating story. It gets into a lot of different complicated things, this individual goals versus collective goals, like parisocial relationships, fandom, expectations. Yeah, it's a really fascinating story. And I also feel like it's

one of the most, like despite the fact that he didn't participate and we can get into that one of the most illuminating articles I've ever read about Yokic himself just because I don't think I really understood the place

that he was from and now that I kind of understand it a little bit better and even understand the frustrations that some of the people in Serbia, some of the basketball fans have with him I kind of get why he operates the way that he does too, just in terms of being like one of the more, probably one of the most unselfish NBA stars ever.

So let's, uh, let's hop into this. The first thing I want to talk to you about is, uh, kind of how this story started and, uh, and how it evolved over time. Yeah.

Yeah. So back in in April, I think what was when it, it was kind of clear, Yokic was probably going to win MVP. And I pitched to my editors. I wanted to do a Yokic feature on what does it mean to Serbia for him to win MVP? And you have this rich basketball history in Serbia and former Yugoslavia with just, you know,

Vlady Divots, Pagos, different players. And gold medals, silver medals. And, you know, historically they are one of the better nations in international basketball. basketball. So I thought like he is the evolution of that. He is the evolved version of Vladia Divots, right? And just the passing, the shooting, the unselfishness. But he's doing that at a superstar MVP level. And, you know, I think also kind of characterizes the modern NBA and the way that the game has changed internationally, just the third European player to win MVP behind Dirk and Janus and the first Serbian.

So me being half-Serbian, my dad's from Serbia. He came here in 1988. It just was a natural fit. And it all was kind of lining up to be that story of what does it mean for Serbia? How proud are they of Yokic? He wins MVP and every, like, you know, he's the king of Serbia. Everybody loves him. And then eight days later, he releases a statement withdrawing from the

national team. And at that point, Serbia, despite winning a silver medal in 2016, because the Olympic rules are so weird, like to me, if you win a medal in like the 2016 Olympics, you should automatically qualify for the 2020 Olympics. Like, that's just how it should be. But that's not how it works. So they had to, they had an Olympic qualifying tournament in Belgrade a couple weeks after Yolkic and the nuggets were eliminated. And he withdrew from that. And never really specified. if he would have returned for the Olympics, but I think the assumption was he wouldn't have. And Serbia lost in the gold medal game

in that qualifying tournament in Belgrade to Italy. Italy makes the Olympics. Serbia doesn't. And they go from, again, winning a silver medal in 2016 to not even making the Olympics in 20, technically 2021, but the 2020 Olympics. So from that point on, he became like public enemy number one in Serbia.

And there's this tabloid in Serbia that publish a story, calling him a national trader. And it's just, if you go on the deep dive searches on Reddit and Twitter, like, Serbian fans are so mad at him. And there's like, you know, never put on a national team jersey again. And just all these different, like, they were really passionate and really upset. And for months, even to this day, many of them are still upset. So that just naturally changed the direction of the story where I felt it would, be disingenuous to say like Serbia, you know, there's this great relationship between Nikola

Yokic and Serbia. Like, that's not the current state of it. So for me, it became about contextualizing it, talking about talking about that eight-day period of everybody, you know, loving him and being so proud of him, and then talking about the kind of reaction and backlash to it and why it's so important for Serbia, why it's so important, frankly, for basically every other country except the United States for their star players to play for their national team. and how important winning a medal is for these countries, that is winning an NBA championship times 10 for those countries. So I think that was the goal with the story.

And it just kind of evolved from there from talking to different like Vladi Divots and different Serbian legends, talking to people in Serbia, and then really just kind of piecing it all together. Yeah, I think the relationship that international players have with their home countries is always really interesting because like, They have to deal with expectations from two different fan bases. And I think that's really, really difficult. And, you know, you can see, you know, their goal.

Like, you know, you have your individual goals in the NBA. And, I mean, those are also collective goals, actually, like you're on a team. And then there's the country. And there might not be, even if it is the Olympics, like, unless you think you can actually meddle, there might not be a lot of glory in it. And it can make players not necessarily. want to go. The NBA season is also just way more demanding than it used to be.

And I think it's like created a lot more of these situations. Like just being in, being in Canada, it's actually almost always been like this. You know, there was, there were people, as Steve Nash was aging and he wasn't going to play in the qualifiers, like there were people that were very upset about that. And then, you know, season later, he's retired and you kind of understand where he was coming from. Like, he obviously wasn't going to be ready. and you know you've had Andrew Wiggins and like this this happens right like this isn't like that

unprecedented of a situation but I think like the thing that's really different about this is just like what you mentioned about just the way that that Serbia cares about basketball but also like this seems to be like a sort of like you described it as a nationalist nationalist nationalistic pride where like you're expected to to seed your own individual goals for the sake of the country, that the individual just doesn't matter as much. Now, obviously, it's very different from America. When did you, like, I guess, when did you kind of realize, is that something that you've always, like, just growing up, like, in your own life known to be a thing, or was it kind of like just

going and traveling, like, and being there and asking these questions that made you realize that, like, this is a little bit different? I think it was a little bit of both. I definitely knew there was that attitude, but I, I would have guessed that the portion of the country that was upset with him would have been a small, like, you know, maybe a quarter of the country, a third of the country. But it was like unanimously, everyone I spoke to was like, no, it's like 80, 90 percent of people. Like, you know, if you just walked up to 10 random people on the street, eight or nine of them would be upset with him. And not just like, you know, like, F him, like really like aggressively upset about it. And I think

for Serbia in particular, there's a pride with their basketball and how much success they've been able to have and having a silver medal situation. And they got blown out in the gold metal game to the U.S., but actually in the exhibition kind of pre-metal play, Yolkich had a great game, had a 30-point game where Serbia went down to the wire with the U.S. and actually almost beat them, which, you know, it's rare to have like a single digit performance against the U.S. in terms of like deficit. So like that's something that like Serbian still hold on to like five years later. They're talking about that game.

And like that just shows you. It's just how you mean, you alluded to it. Like the difference in international play importance in other countries is like like for them that is like again like the finals, but unlike just a grander scope where like, you know, it just they all care so much about it. So I think for me, it quickly became like, at first I was like, okay, I can't ignore this. I have to put this in the story. And maybe now it's its own section.

But the more people I spoke with, it just became like, this is the story. I can't get away from this. And even won't get into too many details with this. But like, there were some of the interviews I did where like I was talking to someone. And it's going great. They give me all this stuff on Yokic, all this perspective. the second we talk about the national team, you could tell their demeanor changed.

And it was kind of like, I don't really want to touch this. Like, I don't want to talk about it. And like, there were some people that just wouldn't talk about it. And like, you couldn't just tell like whatever I said, like, what are your conversations like with Serbians back home and, you know, your friends, your family, what are they saying about it? And that's when they would kind of tense up and be like, well, people are mad at him.

And like, you know, don't quote me on this. I'm going to stay out of it. But like, people are really upset. And at that point, I just was like, I have to make this the story. Like, this is the story here. It's just this complicated relationship where for eight days, they could love you and treat you like the king and, you know, put you right up there with, you know, Novak Djokovic and you're like the biggest star in Serbia and you make one decision.

And honestly, like, let's, I think not enough has been made of like, he had legitimate reasons not to play. I mean, number one, there's still an ongoing pandemic. so anyone who just doesn't feel comfortable traveling and playing in that, you know, an international setting where you're bringing a bunch of people from different countries. Like, that's one thing. Two, his wife was pregnant. And, you know, they're expecting a baby late in summer.

They wanted to be in Denver for kind of a lot of the medical care and just sort of having their child born in the United States and Denver. And then three, he's played the most minutes of any NBA player over the past two seasons, one factoring in regular season in playoffs. You have the Nuggets make a conference finals run in the bubble, and then last season make a conference semifinals run. And he played in every single game and was in the mid-to-high 30s. So if anyone deserved a break after the past couple seasons, it was Nikola Yokic. And I think one issue, though, and I maybe could have touched on this a little bit more in the story, was like, he kind of just released a statement that just

said, like, I'm withdrawing. And I think the sentiment for a lot of Serbians was, like, if he had held a press conference and, like, did a 10 to 15 minute, I'm going to take, like, five to seven questions from Serbian media. I maybe even talk about, like, because he didn't mention the pregnancy. His dad actually, like, the backlash got so bad that his dad came out and told the press, like, hey, they're expecting a baby, like, back off, basically. And if he had been a little bit more forthright. It's almost like Serbia felt like he broke up with them over text. And they wanted like a FaceTime or they wanted an in-person interaction where he just basically

sent a breakup text to Serbia, hey, I'm not playing in the Olympics. And they wanted more of reasoning behind it rather just him saying, oh, I'm kind of tired after the last two seasons. But he has like he has also faced some backlash and has like kind of a strange relationship with a certain media from the past, right? Yeah, so similar thing in 2017, the year after the Olympics, he withdrew in, and that was a contract summer for him. So he was looking to get paid from the nuggets and was it was kind of prioritizing Denver over the Serbia national team. So that was the Eurobasket European championships.

He withdrew and Serbia got fifth place. No, sorry, they actually lost in the gold medal game. and then the next time he played was 2019, and they were the favorites for that tournament, and they got fifth place. And so like, that was kind of, the backlash had been building basically post-2016, because 2016 was his real breakout of,

he's now the star of Serbia, he helped them win a silver medal. And from that point, it was like he skipped the next tournament. Then the tournament after that, they underachieve. And then the next tournament, which is the Olympics,

he withdraws. So this has kind of been building, for several years now, and this is sort of the nadir of the relationship of just, you know, they feel like he doesn't value the national team the way a star should in Serbia. I mean, it kind of feels like, I don't want to put words in his mouth, but it kind of feels like he feels like they're not going to understand regardless. I think so. Like, I think had he, let's say he did the press conference, right?

I think there still would have been maybe half the people that were upset with him still would have been upset. But I think there were people who were just like, the. way you kind of presented this and told us just lacked empathy to how we feel about the situation. So if you don't care about us, we have an issue with you, basically. Yeah. Yeah. There also is something worth adding where, like, I think that, like, the relationships that

international fans have with players are also just, like, deeper than I think, like, people here could imagine. It's not something that I've, like, personally experienced either, right? Like, I don't have anybody that I go. And, like, I don't get up at 2 a.m. to watch somebody that is playing. like across, you know, across an ocean and representing my country and, you know, like the, the sense of pride and connection that you feel for, for a person when they're in that, like, I'm kind of firmly in the camp of, like, you still, like, I don't think you, that gives you

right to, like, you know, dictate what somebody else does. But I get where the frustration comes from, because this is essentially, I mean, this is a tradeoff of fandom, right? Like, you just kind of, you end up being beholden to the expectations of the people who love you. and he unfortunately just like he has he has two really passionate fan bases and he can only really one of the struggles seems to just be the fact

that he can only really serve one of them in like at least in the context of what the modern NBA is and in like everything that he did last season he played every game last season like and no one like I think I think a couple of role players did that no one who was an all star

No one who had like the load that he had actually did that. Like there was a very clear reason he was he was the MVP and it's really, I mean, the thing that's so interesting to me about this is just that like everything that, you know, the fans are upset about with him about. You understand and you almost feel like he understands it too because like these characteristics of realizing that like you do have an obligation to something and that like, you know, like your individual goals don't matter. much that is very much informed, like, in everything that Yokic does. Like, you can see it in, like, just his playmaking and, like, you know, the assist totals every single year. Um, but, like, also just like the way he is in Denver, you know, like he's just like, he's such a, like, low, low, low, low, like, spotlight usage, a star, I guess, which I think matters. Um, and it, like, it's allowed that team to just really build a culture around that. Like, it is one of the,

I don't know, did you, like, did you go to Denver? at all. Because I've always felt like it's like one of the happiest locker rooms in the NBA. And he's, he's always been a big part of that. And it's like, it's just ironic because like you can see, like reading your story, you can see like this country and its characteristics, its values. Like it made him who he is. And it kind of turned him into this person who now feels like, well, the obligation is actually to somebody else. Yeah. So I, the opening scene is I'm at this pub in, uh, in Serbia. And, uh, in, in Serbia. And, one of, with my cousin and his friends. And one of the things, uh, one of the friends said was like, Yokic is the symbol of Serbia. He is everything that, uh, you know, he, he is unselfish. He doesn't have, like his, his physique is a very Serbian physique. Like he, um, he's, he's, he doesn't have a LeBron James, Zion Williamson physique. Like he's, he's, uh, like kind of like an every man, right? And,

and that, that's sort of been what took people so long to kind of accept how good. he was. And even some of the backlash, I think, like, there was American backlash to him winning a VP and it should have been Steph Curry or he didn't deserve it or whatever. And part of that, I think, is just the way he looks. He doesn't look like he doesn't have this, you know, insane physique that were kind of, you know, accustomed to with the league superstars. And so I think that was kind of part of the pain. Like, I think there's an element here of like pain and rejection from Serb, like, because for Serbians, again, like, they love basketball. right up there with soccer as, you know, the two biggest sports in the country.

And it's been a point of pride for them how much success they've been able to have over the years. And to be able to say, we've won these medals, you know, we won the gold in 2002. And like, we've had all these great players. And to have the MVP, that was a point of pride for them. But then to have the MVP not play for them, it's like, it's almost, you know, it's almost kind of like when, you know, you see like the, the jersey. burning when a player leaves a team. It's like that's kind of the equivalent for them is like, you know, he didn't leave. He can still play the next tournament, play the next Olympics. But it's kind of that visceral reaction of like, LeBron James just left Cleveland, like Kevin Durant just left

OKC. Like that is sort of the reaction that happened in Serbia based on him not playing. Yeah, it feels like kind of like an epic whiplash situation just like emotionally for the people there, which like it kind of like it helps you understand why they do feel so strong. And it kind of goes back to what you were saying. Like, yeah, maybe if it was, maybe if it wasn't a text, things would have gone a little bit, a little bit better. Do you feel like there's also this sense of like, you know, there was obviously a huge load that he was taking on,

but also just a sense of like, well, you got it out anyways sometimes. Oh, yeah. And that was, I kind of originally had a line in there about like, Serbians don't care about the rest excuse, but I decided to cut that because, I mean, that was the truth. They were like, they're like,

if you have a broken leg, okay, you can't play. But if you're just tired from two seasons, like you should gut it out and play. And actually, it was something that didn't make the story,

uh, was one thing that worked against him was Luca. And Luca and Slovenia having the success that they had because they looked at, I mean, one, I think they made the gold medal game in their Olympic qualifier without him. If Yolkich plays, they win that game and they potentially win.

a medal. But they're in that conversation again. But they looked at, Luca came off, you know, a playoff series, went directly to Slovenia, played for them. They ended up going to the bronze game and they don't win a medal, but they get fourth, which is better than not even making the Olympics in Serbian's eyes. And there's kind of a complex thing here with Luca, which is maybe its own podcast, but Luca is half Serbian and his dad is Serbian. And he actually grew up speaking kind of Serbian first and has a very, like in his household, they actually spoke primarily Serbian, despite him being, you know, half Slovenian and his mom being Slovenian. So like Serbia kind of claims Luca, like, like Serbians have like a

fantasy of where like Luca just says like, no, I'm actually Serbian, not Slovenian and like plays for the Serbian team. That's probably not going to happen at this point because he's already played so many big games for Slovenia, but Serbians like kind of secretly claim Luca and are like, that's a Serbian boy, not a Slovenian. And then so there's like, but then they hold that in contrast to Yokic, where they're like, he didn't play, but Luca did. And so there's kind of a Luca versus Yokic thing going on there. And then also people referencing Paugasol and Luis Scola, as those two dudes for 20 plus years played basically every Olympics, every national tournament, as long as they weren't injured, those two guys played for Spain and Argentina, respectively.

And they're like, you only get a certain amount of Olympics. You only get a certain amount of international tournaments. If you really love your country, you're going to play, like, Paugasol played in the 2008 Olympics after making a finals run with the Lakers. Like, that's kind of the way Serbians are viewing the situation is like, you either love your country and are playing for it and are battling through it or you don't. And I mean, I guess it goes even deeper than like, you don't. want to play for the national team.

It's like a rejection of your country and you kind of saying like, it's also, there's a whole other thing, but like Serbia doesn't like America. I'll just leave it at that. A lot of stuff that happened in the 90s, the war. So there's also a thing of like you're picking America over Serbia. And there's just so many layers to the story that it was hard to kind of write all this. And it was 3,000 words. But like there's a lot of layers that are a little bit deeper than even like the not

playing for the national team. It's like what Luca's doing, who else has played for their national teams and also this Serbia not being the biggest fan of America. Yeah. I mean, God, there's so much stuff that's interesting there. So, like, Luca and Slovenia is really, that one's fascinating because, like, if I recall correctly, it's almost like, Luca just kind of made a decision that he's going to claim Slovenia.

And it was kind of strange to a lot of people because of, like, I mean, it's such a, it's such a small country. And, like, you could probably accomplish more internationally with basketball playing for Serbia. but he kind of like decided and it's like you know I think anybody who you know either has parents from somewhere else or or has like lived in different countries kind of negotiates with themselves like how much of each place they claim and it feels like you know he kind of just made a decision and it's going to be it's just going to be that way most people don't have to like you know draw a line in the sand like you and I will never have to draw a line in the sand just to say like

no, I'm, you know, these are, these are where my loyalties lie. And then like with, with Yokic, I mean, how much, how much like before this or just like through, you know, all of his sort of like relationship with like the international team and basketball there, just like his relationship with the country? Like, how much does he kind of claim Serbia? I mean, that's kind of part of the thing here is that they, you know, he hasn't, you know, he skipped to the last three tournaments. He doesn't really. do Serbian media. He does have some sponsorships there.

You saw that there's a, I mean, I put the commercial in with the Yellen beer and he and Boban have some ads together and stuff. So you'll see him on billboards and stuff around the city. But I think that that is kind of a thing. That like he's also from, you know, a rural part of Serbia that like, like, Somboer, like they still love him. They never had an issue with him not playing just because, you know, it goes kind of beyond it for them where it's a hometown thing and he's their guy.

But I think that that's sort of part of the issue is I think like they don't feel like he's put on as much as he could for Serbia or not as much recently. And that kind of complicates the dynamic. But yeah, I mean, I think the other thing, I mean, the truth is, and this is kind of the way I ended the story. I think the next time he plays, if he ever plays again, we'll see. But I assume he will, but you don't know. If he plays and they win a gold medal or just metal at all, I think this will all be put

in the past. And it'll be a blip on his bio that maybe, or maybe even not. But at least in Serbia, in Serbia it will always be kind of noteworthy. Like I think this one in particular because it was an Olympics and not world championships or Eurobasket. But I think if he ever brings a gold medal to Serbia, he'll be the king forever and they will forget. Because for them,

it is like all the guys that have won gold medals are untouchable. And like they know the full rosters. They know those players. And they're like the legends of Serbia that. Because objectively, Yokic is the best Serbian player ever. Like it's not debatable. Like, I mean, you want an MVP in the NBA. And he's not even at his peak, arguably, right?

Like he's 26, he can still get better. And Serbia, they don't even view him as like, a lot of people don't view him as a top 10 Serbian player ever because of the lack of international success and his greatest thing being a silver medal in the Olympics. So I think if he ever wins a gold, you know, I think most likely it probably be the world championships or Eurobasket. But if he wins a gold, he's the king of Serbia. And I think he'll rightfully be contextualized as like, okay, yeah, he was the,

best. We just weren't going to admit it until he won us a gold. Just as a just as a behavior. I love that for some reason. I don't know why. It's very transactional. Like, you know, it's kind of like, or it's like a one-sided dynamic. Like, I don't know. Yeah. It's interesting. It is very different, right? Like here, here you kind of want to annoy people even before they have done things. Like we are project, we project out like MVPs and championships and, and, you know, start ranking guys like before it's before they've not to say they haven't done anything but like before like anything has been really written on like their legacy or anything so it's it's definitely interesting like do you feel like um being like from from sombor like was that different than

how some of the other guys like that that uh that went on to play uh professional basketball grew up like whether it was like pita or or uh or devotch yeah i think so um you know i think it's it's a little bit because, I mean, his biggest love is horses, not basketball, right? Like, I think if he were, I mean, if he were five, like, if he were five, like, if he were five, ten, obviously his chances of being an NBA player would be lower. But I think, like, he would be perfectly happy just, like, you know, having a farm with horses and, like, living that life. And that's eventually going to be the life that he lives, you know, sometime in the future. So I think for him, he's just a little bit of a different dude.

Like I think there is some Kauai Tim Duncan to him where doesn't have social media, doesn't do a lot of interviews, like does not care at all about playing that, you know, like every athlete, I think to some extent kind of plays the game of like, I know I got to have certain relationships with the media or like I want to have a good relationship with the media and know that whatever I say could go viral or like people are going to be watching that. Yogish doesn't care. He, you know, he just, he's a different dude from that perspective.

And I think part of that is his upbringing. Part of that's just his personality. And part of that's being Serbian where I think like, again, as I said, him being called the symbol of Serbia, like, part of that was, hey, he doesn't have social media. And like, we respect that about him. Like, we like that. He's not kind of pandering. And like, again, like a lot of non-American things that about him, that's what

Serbian, you know, Serbians love. So it's, again, it was a really complex story to work on. And like there were so many layers to it that it was really like peeling back in onion and trying to like figure out how do I can text. Because like there's so many different versions of the story that I had written and like changed. And it was like there's so many different ways to attack this. And you know, I tried to ultimately kind of do the best job of balancing it.

But it was really, I had so much material to go off of. And it was really more about like condensing. it down. Was there a part of you that was afraid in the sense of like, okay, how do I not generalize the characteristics of an entire country, but also get across like what exactly is going on here on an emotional level? For sure. I think I try to use the voices in the story as like the driving force of that.

I, you know, I myself had to, I think there was some points in which I kind of inserted my voice or or my perspective. And I did, I did want to not generalize entirely. And that's where some of the hedging came in of like, you know, maybe a majority of people are upset with him. But I'm not going to say every serb, because then there's going to be the one person who comes out and says like, oh, I'm not upset with him. And honestly, a lot of the, the Serbian legends, you know, I talked to, you know, Devots. I talked to Dejhan, who's the, his former coach and now the assistant coach with the warriors. Like, a lot of them defended him and had no issue. And, you know, Lodi had a quote about, like, people don't understand how hard an NBA season is, and I don't

expect those people to, you know, kind of forgive him or look past it. But as someone who's played in the NBA, like, I, I can resonate with, like, it being such a toll on your body and then you not wanting to play over the summer. So, I mean, I think, I don't know, I think it's, it's just so interesting. Like, it's, it's just such a, it's, it's just such a, it's, is such a difference. And to me, I think there's a larger point of like, and we've kind of touched on this, but the modern international star has a different set of demands on them because of the national team stuff. And you look at American players, LeBron, you know, LeBron hasn't played in the last two Olympics, has gotten no flack for it. James Hardin didn't, you know, just didn't play Steph Curry.

And it's okay because America has 50 players to pick from that any. 12-man combination, they're going to be the favorite of the tournament. And they might not be as dominant as in previous seasons or previous years, but they're going to be fine. If Yokic doesn't play for Serbia, if Yonis doesn't play for Greece, if Dirk didn't play for Germany, those teams are done. And even in Greece's case, like, they're still, they haven't been that great with Yonis, but like Yokic playing is the difference between Serbia potentially winning a silver medal versus

them not even qualifying. And just that pressure on international players, but at the same time, they're being Americanized, being in America. And the American mindset is NBA team over Olympic team. Like, guys have been making that choice for 20 plus years. And it's just such a, like, it's like, do you, which one do you favor? And like a guy like Luca favored his national team. And it's like maybe that has an impact on his Dallas play, but he didn't care. And whereas Yokic obviously favored.

Denver over the national team. It's just interesting to see how this plays out in the long term because I think as more and more time goes on, international players, I think, are going to kind of have more American characteristics because that's what it takes to be competitive in the NBA. If Yolkich plays, like, maybe he gets injured or maybe he just doesn't get the break he needs and that affects Denver. And I think he's probably thinking more about his Denver legacy, honestly, than his national team legacy.

Yeah, and I guess that's probably just like where the Serbian fans just disagree with him or feel betrayed. And like that's, you know, that's just kind of one of the things that happens. Like when you, when you move, like it is just,

you know, you're going to be influenced by the, by the culture that, that you're living in. Whether that's, you know, what you feel like is the most important basketball goal or just like,

you know, taking the time to, like, tend to your own individual needs. And, you know, there's also a good chance that like, you know, five years from now

when Luca has to start caring about his health a lot more than he does now. Like, he might not be making those, making those same decisions. Do you have any sense of how Yokic feels about this whole situation? Well, he declined to talk about it. And at the point I asked, it was more of a,

I would say it was more of a positive point in the story. So even at that point, like, I was going to ask about the national team stuff, but it was more pitched as like, hey, I'm just writing about the relationship with Serbia and, you know, sort of you winning MVP and what it means for the country. And I'm sure he probably inferred that there was going to be a bit of the national team stuff and the backlash. But, you know, so decline that. I would assume that, I mean, he clearly doesn't regret it because one interesting thing that I put in the story was on Media Day. A Denver reporter asks him, like, hey, I ran into a Serbian.

fan and spoke with them and they said they were very disappointed that you didn't play for the Olympic team this offseason. And Yokic, kind of being a bit of a smart ass back, was like, oh, well, we didn't qualify for the Olympic team. Why is that, Yolkich? They were like, well, the Olympic qualifier. And he's like, ah, yeah, like, as if he didn't know. And then he's like, well, you know, I made a decision, whether it was a good or bad

decision, I stand by it. and a Nuggets reporter tweeted that exchange, and a bunch of Serbian fans responded to it, quote tweeting it, cussing out Yolkits, saying he should never touch a Serbian jersey again, like replying to it, and it got a lot of the same backlash on Reddit. So I think he, I think he's aware of it.

I'm sure, like, I don't think anyone, especially if you're coming from a different country, you don't want your country to be upset with you. I think that's just a natural human emotion. But at the same time, he's not really doing like the damage control either that, like he's not, he didn't come out and apologize and say he was upset that Serbia didn't qualify. Like he has not addressed it, you know, otherwise.

So I think he's just kind of the mindset. Like I made the best decision for me. I'm going to stand by it. And of course I don't want Serbians to be upset with me, but I can't control that. And I just, you know, I'm going to do what I, I'm going to do me. And he did that. And again, I think in the future, if he plays for the national team,

wins a medal. Even if he doesn't win a medal, I think just the act of playing for the national team is going to get him some goodwill. But, yeah, I mean, I think he's clear, again, it's like with Kauai or Tim Duncan, like they would do certain things where like you might not really understand it or might be surprised by it, but you're like, that's their character, that's how they are. And I think Yogy is cut from a similar cloth. And that's just, he's a different dude. Yeah, he's never felt really like much of a need to explain himself before.

Yeah. I think that's something that's been true about him pretty much like whether he's been like really well liked or not. He's just kind of, you know, if you see him after after a loss, like he's usually just like a little bit annoyed and doesn't really give much. Like he's just, he's always kind of been been that guy. How long had you been wanting to write this story or a story like this? It was about almost six months. Okay. And then I started it officially in July.

So I worked on it for about three months before it came out. Did you learn anything about, you know, just your own relationship with all of these ideas? Yeah. I think I almost feel like it was predetermined that I would love basketball based on just like, you know, because I had known, I'd known a bit about Serbia basketball history, but just kind of learning. even more and having the conversations. I know on a personal level, I actually did a Nugget Serbia podcast earlier today, and they asked me kind of a similar question. And one thing I said, was like, for me, when I would play basketball, like, you know me. I'm a very like laid back chill guy. But when I play basketball, I have like this alter ego that comes out. And like, I'm a

hot head. And I like, you know, when I played in high school, I would get technicals and flagrants. and like I just kind of had this like different version of me that came out. And that's definitely my Serbian side. Like that is like just I realize that. Like that is my Serbian blood. That is, you know, coming out like just a passion and, you know, not really caring about being like, like, just kind of being a little vulgar and a little bit crossing the line. And like that is. And again, I'm not trying to generalize all Serbians here.

But as like, you know, I just doing character analysis of you in this moment. We're analyzing me here. And just from the conversations and like just some of the things people say like I could relate to. And I think I learned more about my culture and my history from this story. And that was, you know, now I've written a couple of these where the Balkan boys story from the bubble. I did this story. And it's something I want to continue to do is kind of diving into Serbian stories and when appropriate, you know, writing about it. And it's definitely felt, I've definitely felt closer to my roots than ever.

before. That's dope. I hope you keep doing it. Before we started recording, me and me and Bobby Wagner, who's producing for us today, we're talking about L.A. versus New York and Yovonne Hopton right at that time. And I said that if there is anybody I've met who is from L.A., who is very much meant to stay in L.A. and be there forever, it's him. So it's very, it was surprising hearing this side of view. I've never seen it before. I've never played basketball with you, though. that probably has something to play basketball and you'll see the the elbows and the um because even i mean yoke like yoke shows a problem for him earlier in his career where he'd get the tease he'd you know he wouldn't like a foul call and he would get upset like that's kind of what i'm

like it's just kind of that that passion where you you kind of have a little little bit of a temper and i would have that when i would play does it frustrate you hearing uh people call european players soft we don't hear as much anymore but yeah uh because i i i think i mean if you if you're watch international basketball, it's, I think it's tougher than the NBA. And like, I think the flopping stuff, they were kind of ahead of the curve where, you know, not unlike James Hardin or Trey Young or Chris Paul, like using it to their advantage. And when Vladdy would defend Shaq, he would use the flopping. And it was like, well, if I just guard Shaq on the post, he's going to dunk on my face or score over me. Like, but if I flop and get an offensive foul, like that is a kind of smart way

to defend him. But yeah, I mean, of course, there have been certain international guys that have been soft and haven't lived up to expectations. But, I mean, if you look at a guy like Janus, you can't really say that guy's soft. And there's several international players. And even Yokic, like, even though he doesn't have that frame necessarily that we associate with strength or whatever, like, he's a strong dude and he's tough. And look at his brothers.

Like, you don't want to mess with those guys. So I think, yeah, I think that that stereotype is going away. But I think, again, it'll continue to go away as we see more athletic kind of what we think of when we think of like strong and tough, like more of the Janus types moving forward. Like I think that stereotype is going to be if it's not already gone, it's going to be gone soon, I think. Yeah, I think it was Draymon last season who was talking about like just how strong Yokic is and like no one quite realizes that like it's once he gets in a spot, it's like impossible to get. him out of it. And he's also like, he's not necessarily somebody who won't throw one elbow, you know, it's not that he, you know, goes out of his way to do it, but he'll do it every once in a while. Like he's still like, he's very much like, like, like, he's brought the post up back

in a way that, like, is much more physical than I think, like, Joelle Embed, who he was compared to a lot, a lot last season. Like, he, he was very much just kind of, like, we ignore it a little bit because of his finesse and his touch and how pretty his passes are. But, like, Like, the guy's a really, really big part of his game and his unguardability is actually built on that strength and that toughness. And I'm glad that we have an opportunity to understand this man who never explains himself a little bit better. Yovon, thanks so much for hopping on today. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

I appreciate you giving the story some love and some spotlight. And again, if you have not checked it out yet, be sure it's pinned to my Twitter page at Yovam Buha. you can click it and if you're subscribed to the athletic, read it or if you haven't subscribed, it would be great to subscribe to the story. So thank you for having me on and allow me to talk about it. There you go. Good after you. You have one. Thank you for joining. Thank you Bobby. And thank you all for listening. Have a wonderful weekend.